New classes launched for drivers flouting 20mph limit

New classes launched for drivers flouting 20mph limit

New classes launched for drivers flouting 20mph limit

First published in News

Speeding motorists ignoring 20mph limits will be sent back to school later this year.

Sussex Police will offer speed awareness courses to motorists caught breaking the limit in 20mph zones in the coming months.

The specially tailored courses set-up specifically for 20mph offenders are still being designed.

The move has been welcomed by Brighton and Hove councillors responsible for the widespread introduction of 20mph across the city.

In a separate move, volunteers with Lewes Community Speed Watch are currently monitoring driver speeds through 20mph streets in the town as part of a national campaign.

The volunteers will be collecting data on motorists to assess the scale of speeding in 20mph zones.

If successful, the use of volunteers could also be expanded to other parts of the county.

Chief Inspector Natalie Moloney of the Sussex Road Policing Unit said officers will enforce the speed limit in 20mph zones when they witness offences being committed and would take action if residents raise concerns about repeated speeding in an area.

She said: “The speed awareness course we currently run is tailored for drivers who drive too fast on roads that have limits of 30mph or greater.

“It is not designed for those who are caught breaking the speed limit in 20mph zones.

“A specially designed 20mph speed awareness course is currently being developed nationally for the benefit of motorists who have been caught breaking the speed limit in those zones.

“It is expected that will be rolled out across the country later this year.”

Chief Insp Moloney said the upper speeding threshold to be offered the course has not yet been decided.

She added: “Community Speed Watch volunteers are operating in the same way as they do in 30mph and 40mph zones but warning letters will not be sent to drivers caught breaking the law.

“Instead the data will be collected and studied to assess the scale of the speeding problem in the area in conjunction with local authorities before we consider using the volunteers in other 20mph zones.”

Councillor Ian Davey, lead member for transport at Brighton and Hove City Council, said: “It's great to see the police doing speed checks in our communities.

“Whether 20, 30 or 40 miles per hour, it's important that drivers stick to the speed limits for everybody's safety.”

Comments (45)

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6:41am Thu 30 Jan 14

spaceman1 says...

Ridiculous if you can even drive faster than twenty in town you should be given a medal lol
Ridiculous if you can even drive faster than twenty in town you should be given a medal lol spaceman1
  • Score: 25

6:49am Thu 30 Jan 14

rogerthefish says...

That means everyone back to school then
That means everyone back to school then rogerthefish
  • Score: 50

7:07am Thu 30 Jan 14

Bob_The_Ferret says...

Perhaps the council officers pushing the blanket 20mph limits should go on courses to understand the official technical criteria for setting appropriate speed limits.
Perhaps the council officers pushing the blanket 20mph limits should go on courses to understand the official technical criteria for setting appropriate speed limits. Bob_The_Ferret
  • Score: 49

7:09am Thu 30 Jan 14

Metro Reader says...

Basically a bunch of green vigilantes will make up fake figures and pass to the over stretched police.

Meanwhile in other news, you nan will get burgled, mugged or worse and get no response as the police are dealing with the green vigilantes.

Get a grip Brighton, I have said this this so many times, people don't Stop. Look. Or, Listen anymore when crossing the road.

Bring back the tufty club and teach kids and parents the they need to stop and look before they cross. .
Basically a bunch of green vigilantes will make up fake figures and pass to the over stretched police. Meanwhile in other news, you nan will get burgled, mugged or worse and get no response as the police are dealing with the green vigilantes. Get a grip Brighton, I have said this this so many times, people don't Stop. Look. Or, Listen anymore when crossing the road. Bring back the tufty club and teach kids and parents the they need to stop and look before they cross. . Metro Reader
  • Score: 46

7:18am Thu 30 Jan 14

gazzamagoo says...

So sick of the Greens wasting our money. They have to go!
So sick of the Greens wasting our money. They have to go! gazzamagoo
  • Score: 39

7:19am Thu 30 Jan 14

Sir Prised says...

The Greens have to go and this ridiculous policy reversed. 20 mph is LUDICROUS most of the time and should only be applicable in specific locations. As for using VOLUNTEERS, the concept of using one group of citizens to police another is abominable. We get more like a communist State every day. Thank God I enjoyed a Britain when it was a free country, without cameras and spies on every corner.
The Greens have to go and this ridiculous policy reversed. 20 mph is LUDICROUS most of the time and should only be applicable in specific locations. As for using VOLUNTEERS, the concept of using one group of citizens to police another is abominable. We get more like a communist State every day. Thank God I enjoyed a Britain when it was a free country, without cameras and spies on every corner. Sir Prised
  • Score: 33

7:20am Thu 30 Jan 14

We are the 99% says...

Time for mass civil disobedience of an absurd law that should never have been allowed to come into effect!
Will the next elected council make the guarantee, to scrap these 20mph laws the moment these Green lunatic are kicked out?
Time for mass civil disobedience of an absurd law that should never have been allowed to come into effect! Will the next elected council make the guarantee, to scrap these 20mph laws the moment these Green lunatic are kicked out? We are the 99%
  • Score: 30

7:21am Thu 30 Jan 14

We are the 99% says...

They will have to book the O2 Arena!
They're going to need it!
They will have to book the O2 Arena! They're going to need it! We are the 99%
  • Score: 28

7:23am Thu 30 Jan 14

fred clause says...

Hjars will be out there with all the other vigilante greens upholding this pointless farce they bought in lol
Hjars will be out there with all the other vigilante greens upholding this pointless farce they bought in lol fred clause
  • Score: 20

7:49am Thu 30 Jan 14

Indigatio says...

What a load of B******s
What a load of B******s Indigatio
  • Score: 20

7:57am Thu 30 Jan 14

Balmy zephyrs says...

We are the 99% wrote:
Time for mass civil disobedience of an absurd law that should never have been allowed to come into effect!
Will the next elected council make the guarantee, to scrap these 20mph laws the moment these Green lunatic are kicked out?
They used to lock up lunatics ....we ignore history to our peril ...the fact that we have this ridiculous situation is incredibly sinister .
[quote][p][bold]We are the 99%[/bold] wrote: Time for mass civil disobedience of an absurd law that should never have been allowed to come into effect! Will the next elected council make the guarantee, to scrap these 20mph laws the moment these Green lunatic are kicked out?[/p][/quote]They used to lock up lunatics ....we ignore history to our peril ...the fact that we have this ridiculous situation is incredibly sinister . Balmy zephyrs
  • Score: 18

8:24am Thu 30 Jan 14

HJarrs says...

Oh dear, my speeding moanerati friends don't like this one bit. Fancy having to be taught how to drive like an adult and have consideration for others, what a terrible punishment!

Interesting that there are no comments regarding areas outside of B&H as Lewes features prominently.
Oh dear, my speeding moanerati friends don't like this one bit. Fancy having to be taught how to drive like an adult and have consideration for others, what a terrible punishment! Interesting that there are no comments regarding areas outside of B&H as Lewes features prominently. HJarrs
  • Score: -41

8:32am Thu 30 Jan 14

upsidedowntuctuc says...

Unfortunately Jarrs you are missing the point
The majority of drivers have driven for many years like Adults without causing death or injury to anyone without the need for this expensive waste of resources simply because the ruling Junta hate motorists.
If the Greens were serious about Road Safety they should send out their Vigilantes to enforce Cyclists breaking every law of the road and pavement and giving the decent law abiding cyclists like myself a really bad name?
Just over 15 months left of the odious Davey
Unfortunately Jarrs you are missing the point The majority of drivers have driven for many years like Adults without causing death or injury to anyone without the need for this expensive waste of resources simply because the ruling Junta hate motorists. If the Greens were serious about Road Safety they should send out their Vigilantes to enforce Cyclists breaking every law of the road and pavement and giving the decent law abiding cyclists like myself a really bad name? Just over 15 months left of the odious Davey upsidedowntuctuc
  • Score: 27

8:41am Thu 30 Jan 14

Barney123 says...

I guess the course will be based around the drivers ability to multi-task, between checking if they are in a low enough gear to sustain 20mph, checking to see if they are within the correct speed limit and watching the road conditions. They seriously need to get a grip.
I guess the course will be based around the drivers ability to multi-task, between checking if they are in a low enough gear to sustain 20mph, checking to see if they are within the correct speed limit and watching the road conditions. They seriously need to get a grip. Barney123
  • Score: 16

8:47am Thu 30 Jan 14

RottingdeanRant says...

More of our money being wasted.
More of our money being wasted. RottingdeanRant
  • Score: 16

8:56am Thu 30 Jan 14

HJarrs says...

upsidedowntuctuc wrote:
Unfortunately Jarrs you are missing the point
The majority of drivers have driven for many years like Adults without causing death or injury to anyone without the need for this expensive waste of resources simply because the ruling Junta hate motorists.
If the Greens were serious about Road Safety they should send out their Vigilantes to enforce Cyclists breaking every law of the road and pavement and giving the decent law abiding cyclists like myself a really bad name?
Just over 15 months left of the odious Davey
Most drivers are considerate and stick to the limits, I do. Roads are not just for cars, they are for cyclists and for crossing pedestrians, two groups given little consideration previously. Racing from one set of traffic lights to another might be good for your ego but little else.
[quote][p][bold]upsidedowntuctuc[/bold] wrote: Unfortunately Jarrs you are missing the point The majority of drivers have driven for many years like Adults without causing death or injury to anyone without the need for this expensive waste of resources simply because the ruling Junta hate motorists. If the Greens were serious about Road Safety they should send out their Vigilantes to enforce Cyclists breaking every law of the road and pavement and giving the decent law abiding cyclists like myself a really bad name? Just over 15 months left of the odious Davey[/p][/quote]Most drivers are considerate and stick to the limits, I do. Roads are not just for cars, they are for cyclists and for crossing pedestrians, two groups given little consideration previously. Racing from one set of traffic lights to another might be good for your ego but little else. HJarrs
  • Score: -26

9:01am Thu 30 Jan 14

Fight_Back says...

I'm assuming the same rules will apply to the many police drivers I've seen breaking the 20mph limit ? Thankfully this is just the police hierarchy paying lip service to the ridiculous political project.
I'm assuming the same rules will apply to the many police drivers I've seen breaking the 20mph limit ? Thankfully this is just the police hierarchy paying lip service to the ridiculous political project. Fight_Back
  • Score: 25

9:04am Thu 30 Jan 14

DC Brighton says...

Yeah right....thankfully the police have made no effort to enforce this ridiculous blanket limit and they aren't about to start now, whatever they say. Especially if it means paperwork and courses, rather than on-the-spot fines. This is their way of policing this on the cheap, rather than admitting that it's the waste of their resources that it is.

Don't get me wrong, those who drive recklessly (which may be above 20mph) in risky areas such as around schools should be prosecuted, but this was always the case. Those who drive at 30mph on 30mph roads which have suddenly been reclassified at 20mph with no thought, should not, and probably won't be.

I'm interested to know how a course for exceeding 20mph will differ one for 30mph. Presumably there will be something to do with getting out and pushing your car around, or making sure that you do not overtake cyclists?

Perhaps the Greens would like to employ lots of people with red flags. Oops...I shouldn't give them any more ideas on how to waste our money...
Yeah right....thankfully the police have made no effort to enforce this ridiculous blanket limit and they aren't about to start now, whatever they say. Especially if it means paperwork and courses, rather than on-the-spot fines. This is their way of policing this on the cheap, rather than admitting that it's the waste of their resources that it is. Don't get me wrong, those who drive recklessly (which may be above 20mph) in risky areas such as around schools should be prosecuted, but this was always the case. Those who drive at 30mph on 30mph roads which have suddenly been reclassified at 20mph with no thought, should not, and probably won't be. I'm interested to know how a course for exceeding 20mph will differ one for 30mph. Presumably there will be something to do with getting out and pushing your car around, or making sure that you do not overtake cyclists? Perhaps the Greens would like to employ lots of people with red flags. Oops...I shouldn't give them any more ideas on how to waste our money... DC Brighton
  • Score: 19

9:15am Thu 30 Jan 14

wexler53 says...

Let's hope tonight's vote of no confidence gets full support and rids us of these imbeciles who think running the council is a "lark".

Labour and Conservatives must work together to rid the beleaguered tax payers of these twerps once and for all.

I'm afraid bunker mentality will prevent Kitkat from doing the decent thing. They will have to be forced out I expect.

North Korea is the best place for them and their ideological madness.
Let's hope tonight's vote of no confidence gets full support and rids us of these imbeciles who think running the council is a "lark". Labour and Conservatives must work together to rid the beleaguered tax payers of these twerps once and for all. I'm afraid bunker mentality will prevent Kitkat from doing the decent thing. They will have to be forced out I expect. North Korea is the best place for them and their ideological madness. wexler53
  • Score: 15

9:20am Thu 30 Jan 14

peterthomas says...

Great - no chance of finally adreesing the issue of the many cyclists who break the law on our roads/pavements etc?
Great - no chance of finally adreesing the issue of the many cyclists who break the law on our roads/pavements etc? peterthomas
  • Score: 16

9:39am Thu 30 Jan 14

NickBtn says...

HJarrs wrote:
upsidedowntuctuc wrote:
Unfortunately Jarrs you are missing the point
The majority of drivers have driven for many years like Adults without causing death or injury to anyone without the need for this expensive waste of resources simply because the ruling Junta hate motorists.
If the Greens were serious about Road Safety they should send out their Vigilantes to enforce Cyclists breaking every law of the road and pavement and giving the decent law abiding cyclists like myself a really bad name?
Just over 15 months left of the odious Davey
Most drivers are considerate and stick to the limits, I do. Roads are not just for cars, they are for cyclists and for crossing pedestrians, two groups given little consideration previously. Racing from one set of traffic lights to another might be good for your ego but little else.
Most drivers don't stick to the 20mph limit. Even the council's heavily spun figures show this.

"Success" has been claimed with an average speed reduction of 1.2mph and speed going down on three quarters of the roads (which means that on a quarter speed has gone UP by putting the speed limit down)

There is not general support for blanket 20mph. So most drivers do not stick to the limits as you state

The money should be focussed onto key risk areas and 20mph limits put on small sections which would be followed. Better use of money for reducing accidents and saving lives.
[quote][p][bold]HJarrs[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]upsidedowntuctuc[/bold] wrote: Unfortunately Jarrs you are missing the point The majority of drivers have driven for many years like Adults without causing death or injury to anyone without the need for this expensive waste of resources simply because the ruling Junta hate motorists. If the Greens were serious about Road Safety they should send out their Vigilantes to enforce Cyclists breaking every law of the road and pavement and giving the decent law abiding cyclists like myself a really bad name? Just over 15 months left of the odious Davey[/p][/quote]Most drivers are considerate and stick to the limits, I do. Roads are not just for cars, they are for cyclists and for crossing pedestrians, two groups given little consideration previously. Racing from one set of traffic lights to another might be good for your ego but little else.[/p][/quote]Most drivers don't stick to the 20mph limit. Even the council's heavily spun figures show this. "Success" has been claimed with an average speed reduction of 1.2mph and speed going down on three quarters of the roads (which means that on a quarter speed has gone UP by putting the speed limit down) There is not general support for blanket 20mph. So most drivers do not stick to the limits as you state The money should be focussed onto key risk areas and 20mph limits put on small sections which would be followed. Better use of money for reducing accidents and saving lives. NickBtn
  • Score: 18

10:01am Thu 30 Jan 14

pachallis says...

HJarrs wrote:
upsidedowntuctuc wrote:
Unfortunately Jarrs you are missing the point
The majority of drivers have driven for many years like Adults without causing death or injury to anyone without the need for this expensive waste of resources simply because the ruling Junta hate motorists.
If the Greens were serious about Road Safety they should send out their Vigilantes to enforce Cyclists breaking every law of the road and pavement and giving the decent law abiding cyclists like myself a really bad name?
Just over 15 months left of the odious Davey
Most drivers are considerate and stick to the limits, I do. Roads are not just for cars, they are for cyclists and for crossing pedestrians, two groups given little consideration previously. Racing from one set of traffic lights to another might be good for your ego but little else.
@HJarrs - roads are for vehicles and pavements are for pedestrians. Road vehicles have to obey the rules of the road and drive responsibly.

Pedestrians similarly need to obey the rules of the road and act responsibly..

I have no sympathy for morons that walk straight out into the road without looking, or cyclists that don't obey fraffic signals or use hand signals, or indeed drivers that exceed speed limits.

Everyone should take responsibility for their actions - a concept that greens don't seem to understand.

What we don't need is a simplistic, idealistic, impractical, typical green approach of just implementing a 20mph limit everywhere and assuming everyone will blindly obey it - much like Dame Caroline would agree to when she joined the fracking protestors.

I see that Sussex Safer Roads are implementing speed cameras on the Old Shoreham Road where the limit dropped from 40mph to 30mph. AFAIK there are no plans for similar activities in Brighton and Hove for the farcical 20mph zones.

Fingers crossed for the vote of confidence this afternoon...
[quote][p][bold]HJarrs[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]upsidedowntuctuc[/bold] wrote: Unfortunately Jarrs you are missing the point The majority of drivers have driven for many years like Adults without causing death or injury to anyone without the need for this expensive waste of resources simply because the ruling Junta hate motorists. If the Greens were serious about Road Safety they should send out their Vigilantes to enforce Cyclists breaking every law of the road and pavement and giving the decent law abiding cyclists like myself a really bad name? Just over 15 months left of the odious Davey[/p][/quote]Most drivers are considerate and stick to the limits, I do. Roads are not just for cars, they are for cyclists and for crossing pedestrians, two groups given little consideration previously. Racing from one set of traffic lights to another might be good for your ego but little else.[/p][/quote]@HJarrs - roads are for vehicles and pavements are for pedestrians. Road vehicles have to obey the rules of the road and drive responsibly. Pedestrians similarly need to obey the rules of the road and act responsibly.. I have no sympathy for morons that walk straight out into the road without looking, or cyclists that don't obey fraffic signals or use hand signals, or indeed drivers that exceed speed limits. Everyone should take responsibility for their actions - a concept that greens don't seem to understand. What we don't need is a simplistic, idealistic, impractical, typical green approach of just implementing a 20mph limit everywhere and assuming everyone will blindly obey it - much like Dame Caroline would agree to when she joined the fracking protestors. I see that Sussex Safer Roads are implementing speed cameras on the Old Shoreham Road where the limit dropped from 40mph to 30mph. AFAIK there are no plans for similar activities in Brighton and Hove for the farcical 20mph zones. Fingers crossed for the vote of confidence this afternoon... pachallis
  • Score: 13

10:16am Thu 30 Jan 14

Sir Prised says...

HJarrs wrote:
upsidedowntuctuc wrote:
Unfortunately Jarrs you are missing the point
The majority of drivers have driven for many years like Adults without causing death or injury to anyone without the need for this expensive waste of resources simply because the ruling Junta hate motorists.
If the Greens were serious about Road Safety they should send out their Vigilantes to enforce Cyclists breaking every law of the road and pavement and giving the decent law abiding cyclists like myself a really bad name?
Just over 15 months left of the odious Davey
Most drivers are considerate and stick to the limits, I do. Roads are not just for cars, they are for cyclists and for crossing pedestrians, two groups given little consideration previously. Racing from one set of traffic lights to another might be good for your ego but little else.
You defeat your own argument. Of course most drivers. drive with due care and always have. Most pedestrians also manage to cross the road safely but seeminlgly, in order to protect the few idiots, ALL traffic is to be slowed to a ridiculousy low speed, policed by other citizens. Talk about a sledge-hammer to crack a nut. A young woman stepped in fornt of a bus in the Lewes Road the other day ! Are we now to slow all buses to 20mph? We are attempting to replace personal responsibility with mass-control. We need to stop talking about right and re-establish the basic fact that if you make a mistake, IT'S YOUR FAULT and no one else's.!
[quote][p][bold]HJarrs[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]upsidedowntuctuc[/bold] wrote: Unfortunately Jarrs you are missing the point The majority of drivers have driven for many years like Adults without causing death or injury to anyone without the need for this expensive waste of resources simply because the ruling Junta hate motorists. If the Greens were serious about Road Safety they should send out their Vigilantes to enforce Cyclists breaking every law of the road and pavement and giving the decent law abiding cyclists like myself a really bad name? Just over 15 months left of the odious Davey[/p][/quote]Most drivers are considerate and stick to the limits, I do. Roads are not just for cars, they are for cyclists and for crossing pedestrians, two groups given little consideration previously. Racing from one set of traffic lights to another might be good for your ego but little else.[/p][/quote]You defeat your own argument. Of course most drivers. drive with due care and always have. Most pedestrians also manage to cross the road safely but seeminlgly, in order to protect the few idiots, ALL traffic is to be slowed to a ridiculousy low speed, policed by other citizens. Talk about a sledge-hammer to crack a nut. A young woman stepped in fornt of a bus in the Lewes Road the other day ! Are we now to slow all buses to 20mph? We are attempting to replace personal responsibility with mass-control. We need to stop talking about right and re-establish the basic fact that if you make a mistake, IT'S YOUR FAULT and no one else's.! Sir Prised
  • Score: 15

10:25am Thu 30 Jan 14

ICantThinkOfAName says...

Sir Prised wrote:
The Greens have to go and this ridiculous policy reversed. 20 mph is LUDICROUS most of the time and should only be applicable in specific locations. As for using VOLUNTEERS, the concept of using one group of citizens to police another is abominable. We get more like a communist State every day. Thank God I enjoyed a Britain when it was a free country, without cameras and spies on every corner.
Unless I have misread the article, volunteers are being used in Lewes not Brighton and Hove to monitor the 20mph limit. Volunteers are already used throughout the County to monitor 30 mph limits. Does Sir Prised also object to these?
[quote][p][bold]Sir Prised[/bold] wrote: The Greens have to go and this ridiculous policy reversed. 20 mph is LUDICROUS most of the time and should only be applicable in specific locations. As for using VOLUNTEERS, the concept of using one group of citizens to police another is abominable. We get more like a communist State every day. Thank God I enjoyed a Britain when it was a free country, without cameras and spies on every corner.[/p][/quote]Unless I have misread the article, volunteers are being used in Lewes not Brighton and Hove to monitor the 20mph limit. Volunteers are already used throughout the County to monitor 30 mph limits. Does Sir Prised also object to these? ICantThinkOfAName
  • Score: -5

10:54am Thu 30 Jan 14

Gribbet says...

I knew this was going to be a popular news item.

Unfortunately a lot of people need educating, twenty's plenty folks. We live in a busy, densely populated city where accidents happen all the time, no driver thinks it will happen to them, including the ones who accidentally kill people because they wanted to get back from the shops a minute or two quicker.
I knew this was going to be a popular news item. Unfortunately a lot of people need educating, twenty's plenty folks. We live in a busy, densely populated city where accidents happen all the time, no driver thinks it will happen to them, including the ones who accidentally kill people because they wanted to get back from the shops a minute or two quicker. Gribbet
  • Score: -14

11:50am Thu 30 Jan 14

Metro Reader says...

Gribbet wrote:
I knew this was going to be a popular news item. Unfortunately a lot of people need educating, twenty's plenty folks. We live in a busy, densely populated city where accidents happen all the time, no driver thinks it will happen to them, including the ones who accidentally kill people because they wanted to get back from the shops a minute or two quicker.
Works both ways! Pedestrians don't LOOK! Cyclist’s don’t stop at RED.

Blame the driver - easy way out.

Today on the way to work I saw a 3 year old on a scooter at least 40 meters in front of his "mother" who then left him scoot across the road.

Teach him to cross the road - STOP, even if on green, LOOK, both ways, LISTEN then LOOK AGAIN.

Its not rocket science!
[quote][p][bold]Gribbet[/bold] wrote: I knew this was going to be a popular news item. Unfortunately a lot of people need educating, twenty's plenty folks. We live in a busy, densely populated city where accidents happen all the time, no driver thinks it will happen to them, including the ones who accidentally kill people because they wanted to get back from the shops a minute or two quicker.[/p][/quote]Works both ways! Pedestrians don't LOOK! Cyclist’s don’t stop at RED. Blame the driver - easy way out. Today on the way to work I saw a 3 year old on a scooter at least 40 meters in front of his "mother" who then left him scoot across the road. Teach him to cross the road - STOP, even if on green, LOOK, both ways, LISTEN then LOOK AGAIN. Its not rocket science! Metro Reader
  • Score: 9

1:01pm Thu 30 Jan 14

Bob_The_Ferret says...

DC Brighton wrote:
Yeah right....thankfully the police have made no effort to enforce this ridiculous blanket limit and they aren't about to start now, whatever they say. Especially if it means paperwork and courses, rather than on-the-spot fines. This is their way of policing this on the cheap, rather than admitting that it's the waste of their resources that it is.

Don't get me wrong, those who drive recklessly (which may be above 20mph) in risky areas such as around schools should be prosecuted, but this was always the case. Those who drive at 30mph on 30mph roads which have suddenly been reclassified at 20mph with no thought, should not, and probably won't be.

I'm interested to know how a course for exceeding 20mph will differ one for 30mph. Presumably there will be something to do with getting out and pushing your car around, or making sure that you do not overtake cyclists?

Perhaps the Greens would like to employ lots of people with red flags. Oops...I shouldn't give them any more ideas on how to waste our money...
The police generally won't be enforcing the 20 limits because they should only be imposed in areas where they are effectively self enforcing, and average speeds are already below 24 mph, otherwise traffic calming should be part of the scheme.
[quote][p][bold]DC Brighton[/bold] wrote: Yeah right....thankfully the police have made no effort to enforce this ridiculous blanket limit and they aren't about to start now, whatever they say. Especially if it means paperwork and courses, rather than on-the-spot fines. This is their way of policing this on the cheap, rather than admitting that it's the waste of their resources that it is. Don't get me wrong, those who drive recklessly (which may be above 20mph) in risky areas such as around schools should be prosecuted, but this was always the case. Those who drive at 30mph on 30mph roads which have suddenly been reclassified at 20mph with no thought, should not, and probably won't be. I'm interested to know how a course for exceeding 20mph will differ one for 30mph. Presumably there will be something to do with getting out and pushing your car around, or making sure that you do not overtake cyclists? Perhaps the Greens would like to employ lots of people with red flags. Oops...I shouldn't give them any more ideas on how to waste our money...[/p][/quote]The police generally won't be enforcing the 20 limits because they should only be imposed in areas where they are effectively self enforcing, and average speeds are already below 24 mph, otherwise traffic calming should be part of the scheme. Bob_The_Ferret
  • Score: 7

1:02pm Thu 30 Jan 14

NickBtn says...

Gribbet wrote:
I knew this was going to be a popular news item.

Unfortunately a lot of people need educating, twenty's plenty folks. We live in a busy, densely populated city where accidents happen all the time, no driver thinks it will happen to them, including the ones who accidentally kill people because they wanted to get back from the shops a minute or two quicker.
So is 20mph succeeding in reducing accidents? No evidence has been given for this in Brighton. Indeed when introduced in other areas accidents (including serious ones) actually went up

I support small 20mph zones. Instead we have widely ignored city wide

Why does it matter if all we are doing is getting home from the shops "a minute or two quicker". Well, roads are used for business. Deliveries, food - if these are slowed costs go up and so do prices. So this puts up prices for all in the city. Hardly good in a time of austerity.

A 20mph tax!

Also emergency services won't be able to travel as fast. Yes, they can go faster than the limit but if people really do yet used to 20mph on major roads, pedestrians will cross with less space, less care, less awareness and accidents with emergency vehicles on calls will be likely. So ambulance, police and fire will be slowed, reducing our safety

So why not have a full analysis before rolling out? Why not educate all road users and not just drivers? Where are the plans for pedestrians? I am a regular bus user and see pedestrians nearly hit most journeys - seem to be unaware of something the size of a bus. Often young and in need of more road awareness. Nothing for them here. But more "education" for the most experienced road users....
[quote][p][bold]Gribbet[/bold] wrote: I knew this was going to be a popular news item. Unfortunately a lot of people need educating, twenty's plenty folks. We live in a busy, densely populated city where accidents happen all the time, no driver thinks it will happen to them, including the ones who accidentally kill people because they wanted to get back from the shops a minute or two quicker.[/p][/quote]So is 20mph succeeding in reducing accidents? No evidence has been given for this in Brighton. Indeed when introduced in other areas accidents (including serious ones) actually went up I support small 20mph zones. Instead we have widely ignored city wide Why does it matter if all we are doing is getting home from the shops "a minute or two quicker". Well, roads are used for business. Deliveries, food - if these are slowed costs go up and so do prices. So this puts up prices for all in the city. Hardly good in a time of austerity. A 20mph tax! Also emergency services won't be able to travel as fast. Yes, they can go faster than the limit but if people really do yet used to 20mph on major roads, pedestrians will cross with less space, less care, less awareness and accidents with emergency vehicles on calls will be likely. So ambulance, police and fire will be slowed, reducing our safety So why not have a full analysis before rolling out? Why not educate all road users and not just drivers? Where are the plans for pedestrians? I am a regular bus user and see pedestrians nearly hit most journeys - seem to be unaware of something the size of a bus. Often young and in need of more road awareness. Nothing for them here. But more "education" for the most experienced road users.... NickBtn
  • Score: 6

1:07pm Thu 30 Jan 14

thevoiceoftruth says...

Gribbet wrote:
I knew this was going to be a popular news item.

Unfortunately a lot of people need educating, twenty's plenty folks. We live in a busy, densely populated city where accidents happen all the time, no driver thinks it will happen to them, including the ones who accidentally kill people because they wanted to get back from the shops a minute or two quicker.
What nonsense. Accidents do not happen "all the time" and sometimes accidents may be the fault of the driver, but they can also happen because pedestrians are too busy texting to bother looking where they are going.

These new 20mph zones everywhere have encouraged pedestrians to step out into the road when cars are approaching. Last time I drove into town, a girl stepped out in front of me when the lights were green and the red man was showing. She gave my car a quick glance and even though I was heading straight for her and had to brake sharply, she continued to cross the road completely oblivious with her headphones in and her phone in her hand. I saw three other people doing exactly the same thing.

I am a careful driver and I am always looking out for bikes etc but I cannot be held responsible for other people's stupidity. Especially when there is this thing called a green man which tells them when it is safe to cross.
[quote][p][bold]Gribbet[/bold] wrote: I knew this was going to be a popular news item. Unfortunately a lot of people need educating, twenty's plenty folks. We live in a busy, densely populated city where accidents happen all the time, no driver thinks it will happen to them, including the ones who accidentally kill people because they wanted to get back from the shops a minute or two quicker.[/p][/quote]What nonsense. Accidents do not happen "all the time" and sometimes accidents may be the fault of the driver, but they can also happen because pedestrians are too busy texting to bother looking where they are going. These new 20mph zones everywhere have encouraged pedestrians to step out into the road when cars are approaching. Last time I drove into town, a girl stepped out in front of me when the lights were green and the red man was showing. She gave my car a quick glance and even though I was heading straight for her and had to brake sharply, she continued to cross the road completely oblivious with her headphones in and her phone in her hand. I saw three other people doing exactly the same thing. I am a careful driver and I am always looking out for bikes etc but I cannot be held responsible for other people's stupidity. Especially when there is this thing called a green man which tells them when it is safe to cross. thevoiceoftruth
  • Score: 5

1:18pm Thu 30 Jan 14

gazzamagoo says...

Fight_Back wrote:
I'm assuming the same rules will apply to the many police drivers I've seen breaking the 20mph limit ? Thankfully this is just the police hierarchy paying lip service to the ridiculous political project.
And cyclists...
[quote][p][bold]Fight_Back[/bold] wrote: I'm assuming the same rules will apply to the many police drivers I've seen breaking the 20mph limit ? Thankfully this is just the police hierarchy paying lip service to the ridiculous political project.[/p][/quote]And cyclists... gazzamagoo
  • Score: 2

1:53pm Thu 30 Jan 14

Gribbet says...

Metro Reader wrote:
Gribbet wrote:
I knew this was going to be a popular news item. Unfortunately a lot of people need educating, twenty's plenty folks. We live in a busy, densely populated city where accidents happen all the time, no driver thinks it will happen to them, including the ones who accidentally kill people because they wanted to get back from the shops a minute or two quicker.
Works both ways! Pedestrians don't LOOK! Cyclist’s don’t stop at RED.

Blame the driver - easy way out.

Today on the way to work I saw a 3 year old on a scooter at least 40 meters in front of his "mother" who then left him scoot across the road.

Teach him to cross the road - STOP, even if on green, LOOK, both ways, LISTEN then LOOK AGAIN.

Its not rocket science!
"Today on the way to work I saw a 3 year old on a scooter at least 40 meters in front of his "mother" who then left him scoot across the road. "

Yes, these sort of situations take place in cities full of unpredictable human beings, which is why lower speed limits are necessary to lessen the chance of children on scooters with nonchalant parents from being killed by cars.

Say what you want about your feelings towards cyclists and pedestrians, but their rule breaking is less likely to cause death. It's not rocket science, it's just plainly self evident.
[quote][p][bold]Metro Reader[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Gribbet[/bold] wrote: I knew this was going to be a popular news item. Unfortunately a lot of people need educating, twenty's plenty folks. We live in a busy, densely populated city where accidents happen all the time, no driver thinks it will happen to them, including the ones who accidentally kill people because they wanted to get back from the shops a minute or two quicker.[/p][/quote]Works both ways! Pedestrians don't LOOK! Cyclist’s don’t stop at RED. Blame the driver - easy way out. Today on the way to work I saw a 3 year old on a scooter at least 40 meters in front of his "mother" who then left him scoot across the road. Teach him to cross the road - STOP, even if on green, LOOK, both ways, LISTEN then LOOK AGAIN. Its not rocket science![/p][/quote]"Today on the way to work I saw a 3 year old on a scooter at least 40 meters in front of his "mother" who then left him scoot across the road. " Yes, these sort of situations take place in cities full of unpredictable human beings, which is why lower speed limits are necessary to lessen the chance of children on scooters with nonchalant parents from being killed by cars. Say what you want about your feelings towards cyclists and pedestrians, but their rule breaking is less likely to cause death. It's not rocket science, it's just plainly self evident. Gribbet
  • Score: 6

1:53pm Thu 30 Jan 14

Sir Prised says...

ICantThinkOfAName wrote:
Sir Prised wrote:
The Greens have to go and this ridiculous policy reversed. 20 mph is LUDICROUS most of the time and should only be applicable in specific locations. As for using VOLUNTEERS, the concept of using one group of citizens to police another is abominable. We get more like a communist State every day. Thank God I enjoyed a Britain when it was a free country, without cameras and spies on every corner.
Unless I have misread the article, volunteers are being used in Lewes not Brighton and Hove to monitor the 20mph limit. Volunteers are already used throughout the County to monitor 30 mph limits. Does Sir Prised also object to these?
Indeed I do. I don't want to live in a society where citizens spy on one another. What's to say they wont let their friends get away with it for example? However, this is a bit of a diversion because a 20mph limit simply isn't necessary. I've never come close to being run over when on the pavement or crossing the road responsibly. The majority should not have to change their ways to deal with increasing idiosy or sheer carelessness..
[quote][p][bold]ICantThinkOfAName[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Sir Prised[/bold] wrote: The Greens have to go and this ridiculous policy reversed. 20 mph is LUDICROUS most of the time and should only be applicable in specific locations. As for using VOLUNTEERS, the concept of using one group of citizens to police another is abominable. We get more like a communist State every day. Thank God I enjoyed a Britain when it was a free country, without cameras and spies on every corner.[/p][/quote]Unless I have misread the article, volunteers are being used in Lewes not Brighton and Hove to monitor the 20mph limit. Volunteers are already used throughout the County to monitor 30 mph limits. Does Sir Prised also object to these?[/p][/quote]Indeed I do. I don't want to live in a society where citizens spy on one another. What's to say they wont let their friends get away with it for example? However, this is a bit of a diversion because a 20mph limit simply isn't necessary. I've never come close to being run over when on the pavement or crossing the road responsibly. The majority should not have to change their ways to deal with increasing idiosy or sheer carelessness.. Sir Prised
  • Score: 3

1:58pm Thu 30 Jan 14

Gribbet says...

NickBtn wrote:
Gribbet wrote:
I knew this was going to be a popular news item.

Unfortunately a lot of people need educating, twenty's plenty folks. We live in a busy, densely populated city where accidents happen all the time, no driver thinks it will happen to them, including the ones who accidentally kill people because they wanted to get back from the shops a minute or two quicker.
So is 20mph succeeding in reducing accidents? No evidence has been given for this in Brighton. Indeed when introduced in other areas accidents (including serious ones) actually went up

I support small 20mph zones. Instead we have widely ignored city wide

Why does it matter if all we are doing is getting home from the shops "a minute or two quicker". Well, roads are used for business. Deliveries, food - if these are slowed costs go up and so do prices. So this puts up prices for all in the city. Hardly good in a time of austerity.

A 20mph tax!

Also emergency services won't be able to travel as fast. Yes, they can go faster than the limit but if people really do yet used to 20mph on major roads, pedestrians will cross with less space, less care, less awareness and accidents with emergency vehicles on calls will be likely. So ambulance, police and fire will be slowed, reducing our safety

So why not have a full analysis before rolling out? Why not educate all road users and not just drivers? Where are the plans for pedestrians? I am a regular bus user and see pedestrians nearly hit most journeys - seem to be unaware of something the size of a bus. Often young and in need of more road awareness. Nothing for them here. But more "education" for the most experienced road users....
Quite an imagination you have there.

The point is simple, a 20mph collision is much much much less likely to kill someone than a 30mph collision.
[quote][p][bold]NickBtn[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Gribbet[/bold] wrote: I knew this was going to be a popular news item. Unfortunately a lot of people need educating, twenty's plenty folks. We live in a busy, densely populated city where accidents happen all the time, no driver thinks it will happen to them, including the ones who accidentally kill people because they wanted to get back from the shops a minute or two quicker.[/p][/quote]So is 20mph succeeding in reducing accidents? No evidence has been given for this in Brighton. Indeed when introduced in other areas accidents (including serious ones) actually went up I support small 20mph zones. Instead we have widely ignored city wide Why does it matter if all we are doing is getting home from the shops "a minute or two quicker". Well, roads are used for business. Deliveries, food - if these are slowed costs go up and so do prices. So this puts up prices for all in the city. Hardly good in a time of austerity. A 20mph tax! Also emergency services won't be able to travel as fast. Yes, they can go faster than the limit but if people really do yet used to 20mph on major roads, pedestrians will cross with less space, less care, less awareness and accidents with emergency vehicles on calls will be likely. So ambulance, police and fire will be slowed, reducing our safety So why not have a full analysis before rolling out? Why not educate all road users and not just drivers? Where are the plans for pedestrians? I am a regular bus user and see pedestrians nearly hit most journeys - seem to be unaware of something the size of a bus. Often young and in need of more road awareness. Nothing for them here. But more "education" for the most experienced road users....[/p][/quote]Quite an imagination you have there. The point is simple, a 20mph collision is much much much less likely to kill someone than a 30mph collision. Gribbet
  • Score: 3

2:04pm Thu 30 Jan 14

Gribbet says...

thevoiceoftruth wrote:
Gribbet wrote:
I knew this was going to be a popular news item.

Unfortunately a lot of people need educating, twenty's plenty folks. We live in a busy, densely populated city where accidents happen all the time, no driver thinks it will happen to them, including the ones who accidentally kill people because they wanted to get back from the shops a minute or two quicker.
What nonsense. Accidents do not happen "all the time" and sometimes accidents may be the fault of the driver, but they can also happen because pedestrians are too busy texting to bother looking where they are going.

These new 20mph zones everywhere have encouraged pedestrians to step out into the road when cars are approaching. Last time I drove into town, a girl stepped out in front of me when the lights were green and the red man was showing. She gave my car a quick glance and even though I was heading straight for her and had to brake sharply, she continued to cross the road completely oblivious with her headphones in and her phone in her hand. I saw three other people doing exactly the same thing.

I am a careful driver and I am always looking out for bikes etc but I cannot be held responsible for other people's stupidity. Especially when there is this thing called a green man which tells them when it is safe to cross.
People aren't robots, they're unpredictable and often make bad judgements, however this doesn't mean that being killed is just desserts for forgetting to look properly before crossing the road.
[quote][p][bold]thevoiceoftruth[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Gribbet[/bold] wrote: I knew this was going to be a popular news item. Unfortunately a lot of people need educating, twenty's plenty folks. We live in a busy, densely populated city where accidents happen all the time, no driver thinks it will happen to them, including the ones who accidentally kill people because they wanted to get back from the shops a minute or two quicker.[/p][/quote]What nonsense. Accidents do not happen "all the time" and sometimes accidents may be the fault of the driver, but they can also happen because pedestrians are too busy texting to bother looking where they are going. These new 20mph zones everywhere have encouraged pedestrians to step out into the road when cars are approaching. Last time I drove into town, a girl stepped out in front of me when the lights were green and the red man was showing. She gave my car a quick glance and even though I was heading straight for her and had to brake sharply, she continued to cross the road completely oblivious with her headphones in and her phone in her hand. I saw three other people doing exactly the same thing. I am a careful driver and I am always looking out for bikes etc but I cannot be held responsible for other people's stupidity. Especially when there is this thing called a green man which tells them when it is safe to cross.[/p][/quote]People aren't robots, they're unpredictable and often make bad judgements, however this doesn't mean that being killed is just desserts for forgetting to look properly before crossing the road. Gribbet
  • Score: 3

2:11pm Thu 30 Jan 14

thevoiceoftruth says...

Gribbet wrote:
thevoiceoftruth wrote:
Gribbet wrote:
I knew this was going to be a popular news item.

Unfortunately a lot of people need educating, twenty's plenty folks. We live in a busy, densely populated city where accidents happen all the time, no driver thinks it will happen to them, including the ones who accidentally kill people because they wanted to get back from the shops a minute or two quicker.
What nonsense. Accidents do not happen "all the time" and sometimes accidents may be the fault of the driver, but they can also happen because pedestrians are too busy texting to bother looking where they are going.

These new 20mph zones everywhere have encouraged pedestrians to step out into the road when cars are approaching. Last time I drove into town, a girl stepped out in front of me when the lights were green and the red man was showing. She gave my car a quick glance and even though I was heading straight for her and had to brake sharply, she continued to cross the road completely oblivious with her headphones in and her phone in her hand. I saw three other people doing exactly the same thing.

I am a careful driver and I am always looking out for bikes etc but I cannot be held responsible for other people's stupidity. Especially when there is this thing called a green man which tells them when it is safe to cross.
People aren't robots, they're unpredictable and often make bad judgements, however this doesn't mean that being killed is just desserts for forgetting to look properly before crossing the road.
Dearie me, you must love compensation culture!
[quote][p][bold]Gribbet[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]thevoiceoftruth[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Gribbet[/bold] wrote: I knew this was going to be a popular news item. Unfortunately a lot of people need educating, twenty's plenty folks. We live in a busy, densely populated city where accidents happen all the time, no driver thinks it will happen to them, including the ones who accidentally kill people because they wanted to get back from the shops a minute or two quicker.[/p][/quote]What nonsense. Accidents do not happen "all the time" and sometimes accidents may be the fault of the driver, but they can also happen because pedestrians are too busy texting to bother looking where they are going. These new 20mph zones everywhere have encouraged pedestrians to step out into the road when cars are approaching. Last time I drove into town, a girl stepped out in front of me when the lights were green and the red man was showing. She gave my car a quick glance and even though I was heading straight for her and had to brake sharply, she continued to cross the road completely oblivious with her headphones in and her phone in her hand. I saw three other people doing exactly the same thing. I am a careful driver and I am always looking out for bikes etc but I cannot be held responsible for other people's stupidity. Especially when there is this thing called a green man which tells them when it is safe to cross.[/p][/quote]People aren't robots, they're unpredictable and often make bad judgements, however this doesn't mean that being killed is just desserts for forgetting to look properly before crossing the road.[/p][/quote]Dearie me, you must love compensation culture! thevoiceoftruth
  • Score: 1

2:16pm Thu 30 Jan 14

Mark63 says...

Outrageous! We don't want these limits and they are ruining the place with graffiti on the streets and costly ugly new signs at every turn. Get a grip Greens, we don't want your 20mph zones (away from schools and care homes), and we don't want you!
Outrageous! We don't want these limits and they are ruining the place with graffiti on the streets and costly ugly new signs at every turn. Get a grip Greens, we don't want your 20mph zones (away from schools and care homes), and we don't want you! Mark63
  • Score: 3

2:18pm Thu 30 Jan 14

gheese77 says...

thevoiceoftruth wrote:
Gribbet wrote:
I knew this was going to be a popular news item.

Unfortunately a lot of people need educating, twenty's plenty folks. We live in a busy, densely populated city where accidents happen all the time, no driver thinks it will happen to them, including the ones who accidentally kill people because they wanted to get back from the shops a minute or two quicker.
What nonsense. Accidents do not happen "all the time" and sometimes accidents may be the fault of the driver, but they can also happen because pedestrians are too busy texting to bother looking where they are going.

These new 20mph zones everywhere have encouraged pedestrians to step out into the road when cars are approaching. Last time I drove into town, a girl stepped out in front of me when the lights were green and the red man was showing. She gave my car a quick glance and even though I was heading straight for her and had to brake sharply, she continued to cross the road completely oblivious with her headphones in and her phone in her hand. I saw three other people doing exactly the same thing.

I am a careful driver and I am always looking out for bikes etc but I cannot be held responsible for other people's stupidity. Especially when there is this thing called a green man which tells them when it is safe to cross.
You make a very telling point. You may be a careful driver and not consider yourself responsible for the stupidity of others. But the fact is once you get behind the wheel of a car you DO have a responsibility for the safety of others. The 20 MPH limit is just a way of minimising injury to pedestrians who stupidly walked in front of you.
[quote][p][bold]thevoiceoftruth[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Gribbet[/bold] wrote: I knew this was going to be a popular news item. Unfortunately a lot of people need educating, twenty's plenty folks. We live in a busy, densely populated city where accidents happen all the time, no driver thinks it will happen to them, including the ones who accidentally kill people because they wanted to get back from the shops a minute or two quicker.[/p][/quote]What nonsense. Accidents do not happen "all the time" and sometimes accidents may be the fault of the driver, but they can also happen because pedestrians are too busy texting to bother looking where they are going. These new 20mph zones everywhere have encouraged pedestrians to step out into the road when cars are approaching. Last time I drove into town, a girl stepped out in front of me when the lights were green and the red man was showing. She gave my car a quick glance and even though I was heading straight for her and had to brake sharply, she continued to cross the road completely oblivious with her headphones in and her phone in her hand. I saw three other people doing exactly the same thing. I am a careful driver and I am always looking out for bikes etc but I cannot be held responsible for other people's stupidity. Especially when there is this thing called a green man which tells them when it is safe to cross.[/p][/quote]You make a very telling point. You may be a careful driver and not consider yourself responsible for the stupidity of others. But the fact is once you get behind the wheel of a car you DO have a responsibility for the safety of others. The 20 MPH limit is just a way of minimising injury to pedestrians who stupidly walked in front of you. gheese77
  • Score: 0

3:36pm Thu 30 Jan 14

thevoiceoftruth says...

gheese77 wrote:
thevoiceoftruth wrote:
Gribbet wrote:
I knew this was going to be a popular news item.

Unfortunately a lot of people need educating, twenty's plenty folks. We live in a busy, densely populated city where accidents happen all the time, no driver thinks it will happen to them, including the ones who accidentally kill people because they wanted to get back from the shops a minute or two quicker.
What nonsense. Accidents do not happen "all the time" and sometimes accidents may be the fault of the driver, but they can also happen because pedestrians are too busy texting to bother looking where they are going.

These new 20mph zones everywhere have encouraged pedestrians to step out into the road when cars are approaching. Last time I drove into town, a girl stepped out in front of me when the lights were green and the red man was showing. She gave my car a quick glance and even though I was heading straight for her and had to brake sharply, she continued to cross the road completely oblivious with her headphones in and her phone in her hand. I saw three other people doing exactly the same thing.

I am a careful driver and I am always looking out for bikes etc but I cannot be held responsible for other people's stupidity. Especially when there is this thing called a green man which tells them when it is safe to cross.
You make a very telling point. You may be a careful driver and not consider yourself responsible for the stupidity of others. But the fact is once you get behind the wheel of a car you DO have a responsibility for the safety of others. The 20 MPH limit is just a way of minimising injury to pedestrians who stupidly walked in front of you.
The law disagrees with you. I would not automatically be at fault if the pedestrian crossed in a dangerous manner. In fact, there are rules for pedestrians which are detailed on the government website, including using the green cross code. So no, I don't have responsibility for other people's stupidity.
[quote][p][bold]gheese77[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]thevoiceoftruth[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Gribbet[/bold] wrote: I knew this was going to be a popular news item. Unfortunately a lot of people need educating, twenty's plenty folks. We live in a busy, densely populated city where accidents happen all the time, no driver thinks it will happen to them, including the ones who accidentally kill people because they wanted to get back from the shops a minute or two quicker.[/p][/quote]What nonsense. Accidents do not happen "all the time" and sometimes accidents may be the fault of the driver, but they can also happen because pedestrians are too busy texting to bother looking where they are going. These new 20mph zones everywhere have encouraged pedestrians to step out into the road when cars are approaching. Last time I drove into town, a girl stepped out in front of me when the lights were green and the red man was showing. She gave my car a quick glance and even though I was heading straight for her and had to brake sharply, she continued to cross the road completely oblivious with her headphones in and her phone in her hand. I saw three other people doing exactly the same thing. I am a careful driver and I am always looking out for bikes etc but I cannot be held responsible for other people's stupidity. Especially when there is this thing called a green man which tells them when it is safe to cross.[/p][/quote]You make a very telling point. You may be a careful driver and not consider yourself responsible for the stupidity of others. But the fact is once you get behind the wheel of a car you DO have a responsibility for the safety of others. The 20 MPH limit is just a way of minimising injury to pedestrians who stupidly walked in front of you.[/p][/quote]The law disagrees with you. I would not automatically be at fault if the pedestrian crossed in a dangerous manner. In fact, there are rules for pedestrians which are detailed on the government website, including using the green cross code. So no, I don't have responsibility for other people's stupidity. thevoiceoftruth
  • Score: 4

4:46pm Thu 30 Jan 14

NickBtn says...

Gribbet wrote:
NickBtn wrote:
Gribbet wrote:
I knew this was going to be a popular news item.

Unfortunately a lot of people need educating, twenty's plenty folks. We live in a busy, densely populated city where accidents happen all the time, no driver thinks it will happen to them, including the ones who accidentally kill people because they wanted to get back from the shops a minute or two quicker.
So is 20mph succeeding in reducing accidents? No evidence has been given for this in Brighton. Indeed when introduced in other areas accidents (including serious ones) actually went up

I support small 20mph zones. Instead we have widely ignored city wide

Why does it matter if all we are doing is getting home from the shops "a minute or two quicker". Well, roads are used for business. Deliveries, food - if these are slowed costs go up and so do prices. So this puts up prices for all in the city. Hardly good in a time of austerity.

A 20mph tax!

Also emergency services won't be able to travel as fast. Yes, they can go faster than the limit but if people really do yet used to 20mph on major roads, pedestrians will cross with less space, less care, less awareness and accidents with emergency vehicles on calls will be likely. So ambulance, police and fire will be slowed, reducing our safety

So why not have a full analysis before rolling out? Why not educate all road users and not just drivers? Where are the plans for pedestrians? I am a regular bus user and see pedestrians nearly hit most journeys - seem to be unaware of something the size of a bus. Often young and in need of more road awareness. Nothing for them here. But more "education" for the most experienced road users....
Quite an imagination you have there.

The point is simple, a 20mph collision is much much much less likely to kill someone than a 30mph collision.
We don't have a 10mph reduction in speed as you claim - that's not what is being debated or what is happening. We have a 1.2mph reduction in speed. That will have a marginal effect on collision injuries. Even worse it may cause more accidents as it leads to pedestrians thinking that they are immune to the dangers of the road

20mph is costing over a million pounds. Plus the other costs to businesses (esp. small businesses that I've listed). It's money being wasted. Target it to key areas (eg. outside primary schools), get these areas to go at 20mph (using road slowing techniques) and make a difference. Not line the pockets of sign makers!
[quote][p][bold]Gribbet[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]NickBtn[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Gribbet[/bold] wrote: I knew this was going to be a popular news item. Unfortunately a lot of people need educating, twenty's plenty folks. We live in a busy, densely populated city where accidents happen all the time, no driver thinks it will happen to them, including the ones who accidentally kill people because they wanted to get back from the shops a minute or two quicker.[/p][/quote]So is 20mph succeeding in reducing accidents? No evidence has been given for this in Brighton. Indeed when introduced in other areas accidents (including serious ones) actually went up I support small 20mph zones. Instead we have widely ignored city wide Why does it matter if all we are doing is getting home from the shops "a minute or two quicker". Well, roads are used for business. Deliveries, food - if these are slowed costs go up and so do prices. So this puts up prices for all in the city. Hardly good in a time of austerity. A 20mph tax! Also emergency services won't be able to travel as fast. Yes, they can go faster than the limit but if people really do yet used to 20mph on major roads, pedestrians will cross with less space, less care, less awareness and accidents with emergency vehicles on calls will be likely. So ambulance, police and fire will be slowed, reducing our safety So why not have a full analysis before rolling out? Why not educate all road users and not just drivers? Where are the plans for pedestrians? I am a regular bus user and see pedestrians nearly hit most journeys - seem to be unaware of something the size of a bus. Often young and in need of more road awareness. Nothing for them here. But more "education" for the most experienced road users....[/p][/quote]Quite an imagination you have there. The point is simple, a 20mph collision is much much much less likely to kill someone than a 30mph collision.[/p][/quote]We don't have a 10mph reduction in speed as you claim - that's not what is being debated or what is happening. We have a 1.2mph reduction in speed. That will have a marginal effect on collision injuries. Even worse it may cause more accidents as it leads to pedestrians thinking that they are immune to the dangers of the road 20mph is costing over a million pounds. Plus the other costs to businesses (esp. small businesses that I've listed). It's money being wasted. Target it to key areas (eg. outside primary schools), get these areas to go at 20mph (using road slowing techniques) and make a difference. Not line the pockets of sign makers! NickBtn
  • Score: 3

5:56pm Thu 30 Jan 14

gheese77 says...

thevoiceoftruth wrote:
gheese77 wrote:
thevoiceoftruth wrote:
Gribbet wrote:
I knew this was going to be a popular news item.

Unfortunately a lot of people need educating, twenty's plenty folks. We live in a busy, densely populated city where accidents happen all the time, no driver thinks it will happen to them, including the ones who accidentally kill people because they wanted to get back from the shops a minute or two quicker.
What nonsense. Accidents do not happen "all the time" and sometimes accidents may be the fault of the driver, but they can also happen because pedestrians are too busy texting to bother looking where they are going.

These new 20mph zones everywhere have encouraged pedestrians to step out into the road when cars are approaching. Last time I drove into town, a girl stepped out in front of me when the lights were green and the red man was showing. She gave my car a quick glance and even though I was heading straight for her and had to brake sharply, she continued to cross the road completely oblivious with her headphones in and her phone in her hand. I saw three other people doing exactly the same thing.

I am a careful driver and I am always looking out for bikes etc but I cannot be held responsible for other people's stupidity. Especially when there is this thing called a green man which tells them when it is safe to cross.
You make a very telling point. You may be a careful driver and not consider yourself responsible for the stupidity of others. But the fact is once you get behind the wheel of a car you DO have a responsibility for the safety of others. The 20 MPH limit is just a way of minimising injury to pedestrians who stupidly walked in front of you.
The law disagrees with you. I would not automatically be at fault if the pedestrian crossed in a dangerous manner. In fact, there are rules for pedestrians which are detailed on the government website, including using the green cross code. So no, I don't have responsibility for other people's stupidity.
You do not have the right to mow pedestrians down just because they are in the road although you might not be held to blame but you would be at fault if you were speeding.
If you actually read my comment I said you did NOT have responsibility for pedestrians stupidity but you DO have responsibility for their safety, this includes obeying the speed limit.. The 20 mph speed limit is set at 20 mph because pedestrians have a much better chance of survival at this speed than 30 mph. So its not a matter of responsibility rather of safety.
[quote][p][bold]thevoiceoftruth[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]gheese77[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]thevoiceoftruth[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Gribbet[/bold] wrote: I knew this was going to be a popular news item. Unfortunately a lot of people need educating, twenty's plenty folks. We live in a busy, densely populated city where accidents happen all the time, no driver thinks it will happen to them, including the ones who accidentally kill people because they wanted to get back from the shops a minute or two quicker.[/p][/quote]What nonsense. Accidents do not happen "all the time" and sometimes accidents may be the fault of the driver, but they can also happen because pedestrians are too busy texting to bother looking where they are going. These new 20mph zones everywhere have encouraged pedestrians to step out into the road when cars are approaching. Last time I drove into town, a girl stepped out in front of me when the lights were green and the red man was showing. She gave my car a quick glance and even though I was heading straight for her and had to brake sharply, she continued to cross the road completely oblivious with her headphones in and her phone in her hand. I saw three other people doing exactly the same thing. I am a careful driver and I am always looking out for bikes etc but I cannot be held responsible for other people's stupidity. Especially when there is this thing called a green man which tells them when it is safe to cross.[/p][/quote]You make a very telling point. You may be a careful driver and not consider yourself responsible for the stupidity of others. But the fact is once you get behind the wheel of a car you DO have a responsibility for the safety of others. The 20 MPH limit is just a way of minimising injury to pedestrians who stupidly walked in front of you.[/p][/quote]The law disagrees with you. I would not automatically be at fault if the pedestrian crossed in a dangerous manner. In fact, there are rules for pedestrians which are detailed on the government website, including using the green cross code. So no, I don't have responsibility for other people's stupidity.[/p][/quote]You do not have the right to mow pedestrians down just because they are in the road although you might not be held to blame but you would be at fault if you were speeding. If you actually read my comment I said you did NOT have responsibility for pedestrians stupidity but you DO have responsibility for their safety, this includes obeying the speed limit.. The 20 mph speed limit is set at 20 mph because pedestrians have a much better chance of survival at this speed than 30 mph. So its not a matter of responsibility rather of safety. gheese77
  • Score: -1

7:16pm Thu 30 Jan 14

qm says...

Just like to enquire of Chief Inspector Natalie Moloney of the Sussex Road Policing Unit as to whether this applies to ALL motorists, including marked Police cars.
Can't remember when I last saw one obeying a speed limit! Oh, and I'm not referring to those on an emergency call with the appropriate warning systems active either!
Just like to enquire of Chief Inspector Natalie Moloney of the Sussex Road Policing Unit as to whether this applies to ALL motorists, including marked Police cars. Can't remember when I last saw one obeying a speed limit! Oh, and I'm not referring to those on an emergency call with the appropriate warning systems active either! qm
  • Score: 0

10:31pm Thu 30 Jan 14

Vox populi 2 says...

I know who I would choose to drive me about - those talking sense -
GRIBBET & HJarrs.
I know who I would choose to drive me about - those talking sense - GRIBBET & HJarrs. Vox populi 2
  • Score: 0

11:29pm Thu 30 Jan 14

Gribbet says...

NickBtn wrote:
Gribbet wrote:
NickBtn wrote:
Gribbet wrote:
I knew this was going to be a popular news item.

Unfortunately a lot of people need educating, twenty's plenty folks. We live in a busy, densely populated city where accidents happen all the time, no driver thinks it will happen to them, including the ones who accidentally kill people because they wanted to get back from the shops a minute or two quicker.
So is 20mph succeeding in reducing accidents? No evidence has been given for this in Brighton. Indeed when introduced in other areas accidents (including serious ones) actually went up

I support small 20mph zones. Instead we have widely ignored city wide

Why does it matter if all we are doing is getting home from the shops "a minute or two quicker". Well, roads are used for business. Deliveries, food - if these are slowed costs go up and so do prices. So this puts up prices for all in the city. Hardly good in a time of austerity.

A 20mph tax!

Also emergency services won't be able to travel as fast. Yes, they can go faster than the limit but if people really do yet used to 20mph on major roads, pedestrians will cross with less space, less care, less awareness and accidents with emergency vehicles on calls will be likely. So ambulance, police and fire will be slowed, reducing our safety

So why not have a full analysis before rolling out? Why not educate all road users and not just drivers? Where are the plans for pedestrians? I am a regular bus user and see pedestrians nearly hit most journeys - seem to be unaware of something the size of a bus. Often young and in need of more road awareness. Nothing for them here. But more "education" for the most experienced road users....
Quite an imagination you have there.

The point is simple, a 20mph collision is much much much less likely to kill someone than a 30mph collision.
We don't have a 10mph reduction in speed as you claim - that's not what is being debated or what is happening. We have a 1.2mph reduction in speed. That will have a marginal effect on collision injuries. Even worse it may cause more accidents as it leads to pedestrians thinking that they are immune to the dangers of the road

20mph is costing over a million pounds. Plus the other costs to businesses (esp. small businesses that I've listed). It's money being wasted. Target it to key areas (eg. outside primary schools), get these areas to go at 20mph (using road slowing techniques) and make a difference. Not line the pockets of sign makers!
I didn't claim any figures on the actual reduction of speed as you claim. Again, my point is simple, in a densely populated city, if there are going to be cars, then road deaths are less likely with a 20mph speed limit (as long as people obey it).
[quote][p][bold]NickBtn[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Gribbet[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]NickBtn[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Gribbet[/bold] wrote: I knew this was going to be a popular news item. Unfortunately a lot of people need educating, twenty's plenty folks. We live in a busy, densely populated city where accidents happen all the time, no driver thinks it will happen to them, including the ones who accidentally kill people because they wanted to get back from the shops a minute or two quicker.[/p][/quote]So is 20mph succeeding in reducing accidents? No evidence has been given for this in Brighton. Indeed when introduced in other areas accidents (including serious ones) actually went up I support small 20mph zones. Instead we have widely ignored city wide Why does it matter if all we are doing is getting home from the shops "a minute or two quicker". Well, roads are used for business. Deliveries, food - if these are slowed costs go up and so do prices. So this puts up prices for all in the city. Hardly good in a time of austerity. A 20mph tax! Also emergency services won't be able to travel as fast. Yes, they can go faster than the limit but if people really do yet used to 20mph on major roads, pedestrians will cross with less space, less care, less awareness and accidents with emergency vehicles on calls will be likely. So ambulance, police and fire will be slowed, reducing our safety So why not have a full analysis before rolling out? Why not educate all road users and not just drivers? Where are the plans for pedestrians? I am a regular bus user and see pedestrians nearly hit most journeys - seem to be unaware of something the size of a bus. Often young and in need of more road awareness. Nothing for them here. But more "education" for the most experienced road users....[/p][/quote]Quite an imagination you have there. The point is simple, a 20mph collision is much much much less likely to kill someone than a 30mph collision.[/p][/quote]We don't have a 10mph reduction in speed as you claim - that's not what is being debated or what is happening. We have a 1.2mph reduction in speed. That will have a marginal effect on collision injuries. Even worse it may cause more accidents as it leads to pedestrians thinking that they are immune to the dangers of the road 20mph is costing over a million pounds. Plus the other costs to businesses (esp. small businesses that I've listed). It's money being wasted. Target it to key areas (eg. outside primary schools), get these areas to go at 20mph (using road slowing techniques) and make a difference. Not line the pockets of sign makers![/p][/quote]I didn't claim any figures on the actual reduction of speed as you claim. Again, my point is simple, in a densely populated city, if there are going to be cars, then road deaths are less likely with a 20mph speed limit (as long as people obey it). Gribbet
  • Score: 0

11:36pm Thu 30 Jan 14

Gribbet says...

thevoiceoftruth wrote:
gheese77 wrote:
thevoiceoftruth wrote:
Gribbet wrote:
I knew this was going to be a popular news item.

Unfortunately a lot of people need educating, twenty's plenty folks. We live in a busy, densely populated city where accidents happen all the time, no driver thinks it will happen to them, including the ones who accidentally kill people because they wanted to get back from the shops a minute or two quicker.
What nonsense. Accidents do not happen "all the time" and sometimes accidents may be the fault of the driver, but they can also happen because pedestrians are too busy texting to bother looking where they are going.

These new 20mph zones everywhere have encouraged pedestrians to step out into the road when cars are approaching. Last time I drove into town, a girl stepped out in front of me when the lights were green and the red man was showing. She gave my car a quick glance and even though I was heading straight for her and had to brake sharply, she continued to cross the road completely oblivious with her headphones in and her phone in her hand. I saw three other people doing exactly the same thing.

I am a careful driver and I am always looking out for bikes etc but I cannot be held responsible for other people's stupidity. Especially when there is this thing called a green man which tells them when it is safe to cross.
You make a very telling point. You may be a careful driver and not consider yourself responsible for the stupidity of others. But the fact is once you get behind the wheel of a car you DO have a responsibility for the safety of others. The 20 MPH limit is just a way of minimising injury to pedestrians who stupidly walked in front of you.
The law disagrees with you. I would not automatically be at fault if the pedestrian crossed in a dangerous manner. In fact, there are rules for pedestrians which are detailed on the government website, including using the green cross code. So no, I don't have responsibility for other people's stupidity.
Is legal responsibility the only kind you understand? Do you only care about other people's safety when the law tells you to care?
[quote][p][bold]thevoiceoftruth[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]gheese77[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]thevoiceoftruth[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Gribbet[/bold] wrote: I knew this was going to be a popular news item. Unfortunately a lot of people need educating, twenty's plenty folks. We live in a busy, densely populated city where accidents happen all the time, no driver thinks it will happen to them, including the ones who accidentally kill people because they wanted to get back from the shops a minute or two quicker.[/p][/quote]What nonsense. Accidents do not happen "all the time" and sometimes accidents may be the fault of the driver, but they can also happen because pedestrians are too busy texting to bother looking where they are going. These new 20mph zones everywhere have encouraged pedestrians to step out into the road when cars are approaching. Last time I drove into town, a girl stepped out in front of me when the lights were green and the red man was showing. She gave my car a quick glance and even though I was heading straight for her and had to brake sharply, she continued to cross the road completely oblivious with her headphones in and her phone in her hand. I saw three other people doing exactly the same thing. I am a careful driver and I am always looking out for bikes etc but I cannot be held responsible for other people's stupidity. Especially when there is this thing called a green man which tells them when it is safe to cross.[/p][/quote]You make a very telling point. You may be a careful driver and not consider yourself responsible for the stupidity of others. But the fact is once you get behind the wheel of a car you DO have a responsibility for the safety of others. The 20 MPH limit is just a way of minimising injury to pedestrians who stupidly walked in front of you.[/p][/quote]The law disagrees with you. I would not automatically be at fault if the pedestrian crossed in a dangerous manner. In fact, there are rules for pedestrians which are detailed on the government website, including using the green cross code. So no, I don't have responsibility for other people's stupidity.[/p][/quote]Is legal responsibility the only kind you understand? Do you only care about other people's safety when the law tells you to care? Gribbet
  • Score: -2

10:44am Fri 31 Jan 14

thevoiceoftruth says...

Gribbet wrote:
thevoiceoftruth wrote:
gheese77 wrote:
thevoiceoftruth wrote:
Gribbet wrote:
I knew this was going to be a popular news item.

Unfortunately a lot of people need educating, twenty's plenty folks. We live in a busy, densely populated city where accidents happen all the time, no driver thinks it will happen to them, including the ones who accidentally kill people because they wanted to get back from the shops a minute or two quicker.
What nonsense. Accidents do not happen "all the time" and sometimes accidents may be the fault of the driver, but they can also happen because pedestrians are too busy texting to bother looking where they are going.

These new 20mph zones everywhere have encouraged pedestrians to step out into the road when cars are approaching. Last time I drove into town, a girl stepped out in front of me when the lights were green and the red man was showing. She gave my car a quick glance and even though I was heading straight for her and had to brake sharply, she continued to cross the road completely oblivious with her headphones in and her phone in her hand. I saw three other people doing exactly the same thing.

I am a careful driver and I am always looking out for bikes etc but I cannot be held responsible for other people's stupidity. Especially when there is this thing called a green man which tells them when it is safe to cross.
You make a very telling point. You may be a careful driver and not consider yourself responsible for the stupidity of others. But the fact is once you get behind the wheel of a car you DO have a responsibility for the safety of others. The 20 MPH limit is just a way of minimising injury to pedestrians who stupidly walked in front of you.
The law disagrees with you. I would not automatically be at fault if the pedestrian crossed in a dangerous manner. In fact, there are rules for pedestrians which are detailed on the government website, including using the green cross code. So no, I don't have responsibility for other people's stupidity.
Is legal responsibility the only kind you understand? Do you only care about other people's safety when the law tells you to care?
I said I was a careful driver. What part of that don't you understand? I have never mowed anyone down. In fact, I have never had an accident.
[quote][p][bold]Gribbet[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]thevoiceoftruth[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]gheese77[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]thevoiceoftruth[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Gribbet[/bold] wrote: I knew this was going to be a popular news item. Unfortunately a lot of people need educating, twenty's plenty folks. We live in a busy, densely populated city where accidents happen all the time, no driver thinks it will happen to them, including the ones who accidentally kill people because they wanted to get back from the shops a minute or two quicker.[/p][/quote]What nonsense. Accidents do not happen "all the time" and sometimes accidents may be the fault of the driver, but they can also happen because pedestrians are too busy texting to bother looking where they are going. These new 20mph zones everywhere have encouraged pedestrians to step out into the road when cars are approaching. Last time I drove into town, a girl stepped out in front of me when the lights were green and the red man was showing. She gave my car a quick glance and even though I was heading straight for her and had to brake sharply, she continued to cross the road completely oblivious with her headphones in and her phone in her hand. I saw three other people doing exactly the same thing. I am a careful driver and I am always looking out for bikes etc but I cannot be held responsible for other people's stupidity. Especially when there is this thing called a green man which tells them when it is safe to cross.[/p][/quote]You make a very telling point. You may be a careful driver and not consider yourself responsible for the stupidity of others. But the fact is once you get behind the wheel of a car you DO have a responsibility for the safety of others. The 20 MPH limit is just a way of minimising injury to pedestrians who stupidly walked in front of you.[/p][/quote]The law disagrees with you. I would not automatically be at fault if the pedestrian crossed in a dangerous manner. In fact, there are rules for pedestrians which are detailed on the government website, including using the green cross code. So no, I don't have responsibility for other people's stupidity.[/p][/quote]Is legal responsibility the only kind you understand? Do you only care about other people's safety when the law tells you to care?[/p][/quote]I said I was a careful driver. What part of that don't you understand? I have never mowed anyone down. In fact, I have never had an accident. thevoiceoftruth
  • Score: 1

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