The ArgusBrighton and Hove Council urged to study evidence of 20mph roll out as phase three goes to consultation (From The Argus)

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Brighton and Hove Council urged to study evidence of 20mph roll out as phase three goes to consultation

The Argus: Brighton and Hove Council urged to study evidence of 20mph roll out as phase three goes to consultation Brighton and Hove Council urged to study evidence of 20mph roll out as phase three goes to consultation

BRIGHTON and Hove City Council has been urged to take more time to study evidence of the effect of its 20mph speed limit roll out as it prepares to launch a consultation on the third phase of the city-wide scheme.

Residents will be given their say on the new proposals, which would include Hangleton, Woodingdean, Ovingdean, Saltdean and Rottingdean.

It follows the roll-out of phase one which saw the new limit on roads in the city centre.

Phase two followed with the majority of roads between Portslade in the west to Moulsecoomb and Whitehawk in the east and Coldean in the north subject to the new restrictions.

The names of the roads to be included in the third phase have not yet been released but a council spokesman said they would include the vast majority bar “major trunk roads”.

But motoring campaigner Steve Percy said more feedback was needed before residents were asked for their views of phase three.

He said: “We are being asked to decide on the future of the roads in Brighton and Hove less than a year after the first phase was introduced. We need more feedback and more hard facts before we can make an informed decision.”

He added: “I also have concerns with phase three given that it includes large areas of the suburbs.

“I know people who live there and they don’t have the same problems faced by many in the city.

“As the old saying goes, if it ‘aint broke don’t fix it’.”

Consultation for phase three is set to launch later in the spring. Depending on the outcome, the third phase could be introduced in 2015.

Ian Davey, chairman of the council’s transport committee, urged people to support the new roll-out, stating that early results from phase one showed a decrease in traffic speed on 74% of roads.

He added that collisions and casualties were also down where the limit had been implemented.

He said: “We are already starting to see the benefits of lower limits in central Brighton and Hove with fewer people being hurt on our roads.

“That means people can gradually feel safer on the streets where they live, making neighbourhoods more accessible and pleasant for everyone.

“When consultation takes place later this year I’d urge people to look at the evidence from the many towns and cities with 20mph and the positive evidence we already have here in Brighton and Hove - and support the proposals.”

Comments (31)

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9:27am Thu 13 Mar 14

Ania Green says...

The 20mph speed limit has been a huge success. We have seen accidents drop and air pollution decrease as a direct result if people driving at 20mph as apprised to 30mph.

The vast majority of residents in Brighton and Hove have been overwhelmingly in support of these new measures so it would be doing them a disservice to not bring in these further changes.
The 20mph speed limit has been a huge success. We have seen accidents drop and air pollution decrease as a direct result if people driving at 20mph as apprised to 30mph. The vast majority of residents in Brighton and Hove have been overwhelmingly in support of these new measures so it would be doing them a disservice to not bring in these further changes. Ania Green
  • Score: -67

9:33am Thu 13 Mar 14

cleggalike says...

Excellent news. I think the 20mph limit is a very good thing, will reduce accidents, and generally make the city a safer and more civilised place to be. I was a sceptic about it, and at first (as a motorist) it was hard to adjust, but once you are use to it, its easy. 20mph is rapidly becoming the norm across urban areas throughout Britain, with a rapidly growing body of evidence to show the benefits. I understand that some people are anti, but my plea to them is to look at the evidence and try and see things from the perspective of cyclists and pedestrians.
Excellent news. I think the 20mph limit is a very good thing, will reduce accidents, and generally make the city a safer and more civilised place to be. I was a sceptic about it, and at first (as a motorist) it was hard to adjust, but once you are use to it, its easy. 20mph is rapidly becoming the norm across urban areas throughout Britain, with a rapidly growing body of evidence to show the benefits. I understand that some people are anti, but my plea to them is to look at the evidence and try and see things from the perspective of cyclists and pedestrians. cleggalike
  • Score: -58

9:47am Thu 13 Mar 14

Brighton Living says...

lol really, really is anybody taking any notice of the 20mph as I drive in Brighton every day and I'm doing 26mph - 32mph like everybody else.......
lol really, really is anybody taking any notice of the 20mph as I drive in Brighton every day and I'm doing 26mph - 32mph like everybody else....... Brighton Living
  • Score: 49

9:59am Thu 13 Mar 14

BrightonBrowser says...

Brighton Living - you rebel. Seriously though, average road speeds have reduced since 20mph was introduced. This will lead to fewer road causalities, which surely everyone thinks is a good idea.
Brighton Living - you rebel. Seriously though, average road speeds have reduced since 20mph was introduced. This will lead to fewer road causalities, which surely everyone thinks is a good idea. BrightonBrowser
  • Score: -45

10:41am Thu 13 Mar 14

pachallis says...

Ania Green wrote:
The 20mph speed limit has been a huge success. We have seen accidents drop and air pollution decrease as a direct result if people driving at 20mph as apprised to 30mph.

The vast majority of residents in Brighton and Hove have been overwhelmingly in support of these new measures so it would be doing them a disservice to not bring in these further changes.
@Ania Green - thanks for your vote of support Mrs. Kitkat! You might at least choose a more anonymous handle.

Please can you ask you colleague, Mr. Davey, to provide the data that backs up the claims he makes?

Please can we also have a consultation in Portslade after the abomination of a trial that was forced upon us? We would like to be given our say regarding the illogical, unenforced, generally ignored limits that were introduced.
[quote][p][bold]Ania Green[/bold] wrote: The 20mph speed limit has been a huge success. We have seen accidents drop and air pollution decrease as a direct result if people driving at 20mph as apprised to 30mph. The vast majority of residents in Brighton and Hove have been overwhelmingly in support of these new measures so it would be doing them a disservice to not bring in these further changes.[/p][/quote]@Ania Green - thanks for your vote of support Mrs. Kitkat! You might at least choose a more anonymous handle. Please can you ask you colleague, Mr. Davey, to provide the data that backs up the claims he makes? Please can we also have a consultation in Portslade after the abomination of a trial that was forced upon us? We would like to be given our say regarding the illogical, unenforced, generally ignored limits that were introduced. pachallis
  • Score: 31

10:56am Thu 13 Mar 14

happy1972 says...

Ania Green wrote:
The 20mph speed limit has been a huge success. We have seen accidents drop and air pollution decrease as a direct result if people driving at 20mph as apprised to 30mph.

The vast majority of residents in Brighton and Hove have been overwhelmingly in support of these new measures so it would be doing them a disservice to not bring in these further changes.
I can't agree with your statement around the drop in air pollution, if you search the aa site for example there is evidence (scientifically tested and proven) that shows that reducing to 20mph increases fuel consumption (and therefore CO2) by more than 10%, speed humps increase this to 46.9%. Note the highways agency is less optimistic quoting a 20% increase in pollution from 30 to 20 mph.

Therefore the only way pollution could be being reduced is by forcing car users not to come to Brighton at all, I know that I avoid the centre now and go elsewhere if I want to shop as a result of the deliberate measures to make things more dangerous, i.e. narrowing of roads to the point cars cannot pass each other without hitting wing mirrors etc.

This council seems to be missing the point, if they have a Green agenda to reduce pollution then forcing vehicles to drive more slowly does not meet this. If they are looking to improve road safety then they should reduce speed in key areas like around schools (and stop removing the safety barriers in these areas!) rather than placing a limit everywhere. That way the police can enforce limits where they are deserved ensuring compliance and also reducing the impact of pollution across the town.

In my opinion this council has squandered taxpayers money on their personal priorities without considering the need to get the basics right first, e.g. Leaving rubbish on the streets for weeks - not exactly environmentally friendly! (I wonder how many people who voted them in would've done so if that was part of their manifesto?)

I certainly cannot support any rate rises proposed by this council given the wasteful way they have spent the monies they have already taken from the taxpayer, I like many people in this town have no confidence in their leadership.
[quote][p][bold]Ania Green[/bold] wrote: The 20mph speed limit has been a huge success. We have seen accidents drop and air pollution decrease as a direct result if people driving at 20mph as apprised to 30mph. The vast majority of residents in Brighton and Hove have been overwhelmingly in support of these new measures so it would be doing them a disservice to not bring in these further changes.[/p][/quote]I can't agree with your statement around the drop in air pollution, if you search the aa site for example there is evidence (scientifically tested and proven) that shows that reducing to 20mph increases fuel consumption (and therefore CO2) by more than 10%, speed humps increase this to 46.9%. Note the highways agency is less optimistic quoting a 20% increase in pollution from 30 to 20 mph. Therefore the only way pollution could be being reduced is by forcing car users not to come to Brighton at all, I know that I avoid the centre now and go elsewhere if I want to shop as a result of the deliberate measures to make things more dangerous, i.e. narrowing of roads to the point cars cannot pass each other without hitting wing mirrors etc. This council seems to be missing the point, if they have a Green agenda to reduce pollution then forcing vehicles to drive more slowly does not meet this. If they are looking to improve road safety then they should reduce speed in key areas like around schools (and stop removing the safety barriers in these areas!) rather than placing a limit everywhere. That way the police can enforce limits where they are deserved ensuring compliance and also reducing the impact of pollution across the town. In my opinion this council has squandered taxpayers money on their personal priorities without considering the need to get the basics right first, e.g. Leaving rubbish on the streets for weeks - not exactly environmentally friendly! (I wonder how many people who voted them in would've done so if that was part of their manifesto?) I certainly cannot support any rate rises proposed by this council given the wasteful way they have spent the monies they have already taken from the taxpayer, I like many people in this town have no confidence in their leadership. happy1972
  • Score: 40

11:08am Thu 13 Mar 14

rockburn says...

where is there true evidence to pollution reduction!, if you drive in a lower gear you use more fuel therefore more pollution that a true scientific fact and pollution only increases as evidence shows with new vehicles afar 45 mph and then not significantly until 58-60 mph this evidence is supported but research caried out by the "Road research laboratory" berkshire .
where is there true evidence to pollution reduction!, if you drive in a lower gear you use more fuel therefore more pollution that a true scientific fact and pollution only increases as evidence shows with new vehicles afar 45 mph and then not significantly until 58-60 mph this evidence is supported but research caried out by the "Road research laboratory" berkshire . rockburn
  • Score: 33

11:11am Thu 13 Mar 14

gheese77 says...

Brighton Living wrote:
lol really, really is anybody taking any notice of the 20mph as I drive in Brighton every day and I'm doing 26mph - 32mph like everybody else.......
Well I am glad you find breaking the law funny and I hope you don't knock anyone over at higher speeds because they are far more likely to be killed or seriously injured at speeds over 30 mph,
But I suppose we should be grateful as at least it's an improvement over drivers ignoring a 30 mph limit and doing 35- 40 mph
[quote][p][bold]Brighton Living[/bold] wrote: lol really, really is anybody taking any notice of the 20mph as I drive in Brighton every day and I'm doing 26mph - 32mph like everybody else.......[/p][/quote]Well I am glad you find breaking the law funny and I hope you don't knock anyone over at higher speeds because they are far more likely to be killed or seriously injured at speeds over 30 mph, But I suppose we should be grateful as at least it's an improvement over drivers ignoring a 30 mph limit and doing 35- 40 mph gheese77
  • Score: -31

11:18am Thu 13 Mar 14

billy goat-gruff says...

What would you rather have down your street: cars revving up, pouring out fumes, speeding to the next junction then banging on their brakes; cars travelling considerately, slowly and safely; or no cars at all? It's a no brainer...
What would you rather have down your street: cars revving up, pouring out fumes, speeding to the next junction then banging on their brakes; cars travelling considerately, slowly and safely; or no cars at all? It's a no brainer... billy goat-gruff
  • Score: -30

11:22am Thu 13 Mar 14

Plantpot says...

I find this whole discussion about 20mph speed limits a bit baffling. Reductions in deaths and injuries can only be attributed to the speed limit reduction if it is shown using evidence that driving behaviours have changed since the reduction was made. In addition, it would have to be shown that other road users would be behaving exactly the same as before the speed limit reduction.

But there would appear to be no evidence, and in some cases, in places like Portsmouth, injuries and deaths increased following the introduction of 20mph limits.

Frankly, I suspect given the evidence of my own eyes on the roads that the 20mph limits are virtually universally ignored. If this is the case, then other factors are at play as yet unidentified. Or luck.
I find this whole discussion about 20mph speed limits a bit baffling. Reductions in deaths and injuries can only be attributed to the speed limit reduction if it is shown using evidence that driving behaviours have changed since the reduction was made. In addition, it would have to be shown that other road users would be behaving exactly the same as before the speed limit reduction. But there would appear to be no evidence, and in some cases, in places like Portsmouth, injuries and deaths increased following the introduction of 20mph limits. Frankly, I suspect given the evidence of my own eyes on the roads that the 20mph limits are virtually universally ignored. If this is the case, then other factors are at play as yet unidentified. Or luck. Plantpot
  • Score: 27

11:26am Thu 13 Mar 14

Plantpot says...

gheese77 wrote:
Brighton Living wrote:
lol really, really is anybody taking any notice of the 20mph as I drive in Brighton every day and I'm doing 26mph - 32mph like everybody else.......
Well I am glad you find breaking the law funny and I hope you don't knock anyone over at higher speeds because they are far more likely to be killed or seriously injured at speeds over 30 mph,
But I suppose we should be grateful as at least it's an improvement over drivers ignoring a 30 mph limit and doing 35- 40 mph
Based on the evidence of my own eyes, very few have altered their driving styles as most drive to the conditions anyway. It would also be helpful if pedestrians were taught to cross the road properly, children and animals properly supervised, and all road users followed the highway code.

Just getting everyone to follow the highway code would produce dramatic improvements.

BTW - behind Malta, we have the safest roads in Europe. Much safer than Holland, Germany etc. that are perceived to be in some ways ahead of us. Life is risky, and not all risk could or should be eliminated.
[quote][p][bold]gheese77[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Brighton Living[/bold] wrote: lol really, really is anybody taking any notice of the 20mph as I drive in Brighton every day and I'm doing 26mph - 32mph like everybody else.......[/p][/quote]Well I am glad you find breaking the law funny and I hope you don't knock anyone over at higher speeds because they are far more likely to be killed or seriously injured at speeds over 30 mph, But I suppose we should be grateful as at least it's an improvement over drivers ignoring a 30 mph limit and doing 35- 40 mph[/p][/quote]Based on the evidence of my own eyes, very few have altered their driving styles as most drive to the conditions anyway. It would also be helpful if pedestrians were taught to cross the road properly, children and animals properly supervised, and all road users followed the highway code. Just getting everyone to follow the highway code would produce dramatic improvements. BTW - behind Malta, we have the safest roads in Europe. Much safer than Holland, Germany etc. that are perceived to be in some ways ahead of us. Life is risky, and not all risk could or should be eliminated. Plantpot
  • Score: 27

11:29am Thu 13 Mar 14

Plantpot says...

billy goat-gruff wrote:
What would you rather have down your street: cars revving up, pouring out fumes, speeding to the next junction then banging on their brakes; cars travelling considerately, slowly and safely; or no cars at all? It's a no brainer...
Really? Which option are you going for?
[quote][p][bold]billy goat-gruff[/bold] wrote: What would you rather have down your street: cars revving up, pouring out fumes, speeding to the next junction then banging on their brakes; cars travelling considerately, slowly and safely; or no cars at all? It's a no brainer...[/p][/quote]Really? Which option are you going for? Plantpot
  • Score: 11

11:45am Thu 13 Mar 14

cookie_brighton says...

The evidence is..........it aint working.
This council introduce 20 M.P.H. speed limit on our roads..........NO one is enforcing it...therefore NO one is adhering to it.........waste of our money.
The evidence is..........it aint working. This council introduce 20 M.P.H. speed limit on our roads..........NO one is enforcing it...therefore NO one is adhering to it.........waste of our money. cookie_brighton
  • Score: 31

11:51am Thu 13 Mar 14

thevoiceoftruth says...

Ania Green wrote:
The 20mph speed limit has been a huge success. We have seen accidents drop and air pollution decrease as a direct result if people driving at 20mph as apprised to 30mph.

The vast majority of residents in Brighton and Hove have been overwhelmingly in support of these new measures so it would be doing them a disservice to not bring in these further changes.
Without any evidence or data, your comment means zilch. PS. apprised means to tell someone something. Me thinks you are telling porkie pies.
[quote][p][bold]Ania Green[/bold] wrote: The 20mph speed limit has been a huge success. We have seen accidents drop and air pollution decrease as a direct result if people driving at 20mph as apprised to 30mph. The vast majority of residents in Brighton and Hove have been overwhelmingly in support of these new measures so it would be doing them a disservice to not bring in these further changes.[/p][/quote]Without any evidence or data, your comment means zilch. PS. apprised means to tell someone something. Me thinks you are telling porkie pies. thevoiceoftruth
  • Score: 22

12:17pm Thu 13 Mar 14

J_Brightonandhove says...

gheese77 wrote:
Brighton Living wrote: lol really, really is anybody taking any notice of the 20mph as I drive in Brighton every day and I'm doing 26mph - 32mph like everybody else.......
Well I am glad you find breaking the law funny and I hope you don't knock anyone over at higher speeds because they are far more likely to be killed or seriously injured at speeds over 30 mph, But I suppose we should be grateful as at least it's an improvement over drivers ignoring a 30 mph limit and doing 35- 40 mph
Gheese77: -

I hope your realise that 20mph ISN'T the law. It isn't enforceable. Even by Davies own admission!! Get your facts right before spouting the rubbish you do. And before you tell me it is the law, go and find me the statute that specifically states 20mph is the law...you won't find it because it doesn't exist
[quote][p][bold]gheese77[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Brighton Living[/bold] wrote: lol really, really is anybody taking any notice of the 20mph as I drive in Brighton every day and I'm doing 26mph - 32mph like everybody else.......[/p][/quote]Well I am glad you find breaking the law funny and I hope you don't knock anyone over at higher speeds because they are far more likely to be killed or seriously injured at speeds over 30 mph, But I suppose we should be grateful as at least it's an improvement over drivers ignoring a 30 mph limit and doing 35- 40 mph[/p][/quote]Gheese77: - I hope your realise that 20mph ISN'T the law. It isn't enforceable. Even by Davies own admission!! Get your facts right before spouting the rubbish you do. And before you tell me it is the law, go and find me the statute that specifically states 20mph is the law...you won't find it because it doesn't exist J_Brightonandhove
  • Score: 21

12:18pm Thu 13 Mar 14

J_Brightonandhove says...

billy goat-gruff wrote:
What would you rather have down your street: cars revving up, pouring out fumes, speeding to the next junction then banging on their brakes; cars travelling considerately, slowly and safely; or no cars at all? It's a no brainer...
What a wild exaggeration. You must live on the bend right next to the track at Silverstone. Seriously - the majority of driver's don't 'pour out fumes, bang their brakes and speed to every junction'

Typical Green. Moron
[quote][p][bold]billy goat-gruff[/bold] wrote: What would you rather have down your street: cars revving up, pouring out fumes, speeding to the next junction then banging on their brakes; cars travelling considerately, slowly and safely; or no cars at all? It's a no brainer...[/p][/quote]What a wild exaggeration. You must live on the bend right next to the track at Silverstone. Seriously - the majority of driver's don't 'pour out fumes, bang their brakes and speed to every junction' Typical Green. Moron J_Brightonandhove
  • Score: 26

12:19pm Thu 13 Mar 14

Somethingsarejustwrong says...

Wretched greens

We have a buch of idiots dictating to us the intelligent tax paying residents of Brighton, what we can and can't do. We frankly don't care and are ignoring your rules. You can see this, yet still seem happy to waste our money

Ridiculous bunch of wasters
Wretched greens We have a buch of idiots dictating to us the intelligent tax paying residents of Brighton, what we can and can't do. We frankly don't care and are ignoring your rules. You can see this, yet still seem happy to waste our money Ridiculous bunch of wasters Somethingsarejustwrong
  • Score: 27

12:21pm Thu 13 Mar 14

J_Brightonandhove says...

Anyone else tired of the Greens constantly saying 'evidence shows...'

WHERE'S THE EVIDENCE?!

Its almost criminal the amount of rubbish they come out with. Zero evidence exists to show people are driving slower in Brighton!

If we're all playing the green game of saying 'evidence shows this and that', well my evidence is they're all a bunch of lying, clueless idiots with no idea how to run a city.
Anyone else tired of the Greens constantly saying 'evidence shows...' WHERE'S THE EVIDENCE?! Its almost criminal the amount of rubbish they come out with. Zero evidence exists to show people are driving slower in Brighton! If we're all playing the green game of saying 'evidence shows this and that', well my evidence is they're all a bunch of lying, clueless idiots with no idea how to run a city. J_Brightonandhove
  • Score: 30

12:24pm Thu 13 Mar 14

Fight_Back says...

billy goat-gruff wrote:
What would you rather have down your street: cars revving up, pouring out fumes, speeding to the next junction then banging on their brakes; cars travelling considerately, slowly and safely; or no cars at all? It's a no brainer...
I don't know - why don't you ask the residents of Old Shoreham Road from Goldstone Crescent to Dyke Road. Thanks to the cycle lanes and the re-phasing of the traffic lights they now breathe in far more fumes than they did before.
[quote][p][bold]billy goat-gruff[/bold] wrote: What would you rather have down your street: cars revving up, pouring out fumes, speeding to the next junction then banging on their brakes; cars travelling considerately, slowly and safely; or no cars at all? It's a no brainer...[/p][/quote]I don't know - why don't you ask the residents of Old Shoreham Road from Goldstone Crescent to Dyke Road. Thanks to the cycle lanes and the re-phasing of the traffic lights they now breathe in far more fumes than they did before. Fight_Back
  • Score: 26

12:45pm Thu 13 Mar 14

Somethingsarejustwrong says...

Fight_Back wrote:
billy goat-gruff wrote: What would you rather have down your street: cars revving up, pouring out fumes, speeding to the next junction then banging on their brakes; cars travelling considerately, slowly and safely; or no cars at all? It's a no brainer...
I don't know - why don't you ask the residents of Old Shoreham Road from Goldstone Crescent to Dyke Road. Thanks to the cycle lanes and the re-phasing of the traffic lights they now breathe in far more fumes than they did before.
Wretched greens

Vanity projects and a complete disregard for the tax paying residents of Brighton is their unacceptable legacy. Sooner they have gone the better for everyone

Anyone notice the gates been opened for our non tax paying, trash creating traveler friends who we will the go on to clear up their mess and overspend our already ridiculously high budget on

Couldn't make it up

Wretched green wasters
[quote][p][bold]Fight_Back[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]billy goat-gruff[/bold] wrote: What would you rather have down your street: cars revving up, pouring out fumes, speeding to the next junction then banging on their brakes; cars travelling considerately, slowly and safely; or no cars at all? It's a no brainer...[/p][/quote]I don't know - why don't you ask the residents of Old Shoreham Road from Goldstone Crescent to Dyke Road. Thanks to the cycle lanes and the re-phasing of the traffic lights they now breathe in far more fumes than they did before.[/p][/quote]Wretched greens Vanity projects and a complete disregard for the tax paying residents of Brighton is their unacceptable legacy. Sooner they have gone the better for everyone Anyone notice the gates been opened for our non tax paying, trash creating traveler friends who we will the go on to clear up their mess and overspend our already ridiculously high budget on Couldn't make it up Wretched green wasters Somethingsarejustwrong
  • Score: 28

1:43pm Thu 13 Mar 14

NickBtn says...

The only "evidence" that seems to be quoted is that on 74% of roads average speeds have been reduced. No mention is made of how much (although an earlier report said 1.2mph, not 10mph as would be expected).

74% sounds great - but then that means that on a quarter of roads speeds have stayed the same or increased. So even this "evidence" shows just how much the 20mph blanket limit is ignored

Stop wasting our money on something widely ignored. Let's see if accidents are reduced (and that is an if as other areas eg. Portsmouth saw accidents INCREASE with 20mph), let's see the pollution figures and any evidence that a drop has occurred. And let's see the figures and the data, not the spin!
The only "evidence" that seems to be quoted is that on 74% of roads average speeds have been reduced. No mention is made of how much (although an earlier report said 1.2mph, not 10mph as would be expected). 74% sounds great - but then that means that on a quarter of roads speeds have stayed the same or increased. So even this "evidence" shows just how much the 20mph blanket limit is ignored Stop wasting our money on something widely ignored. Let's see if accidents are reduced (and that is an if as other areas eg. Portsmouth saw accidents INCREASE with 20mph), let's see the pollution figures and any evidence that a drop has occurred. And let's see the figures and the data, not the spin! NickBtn
  • Score: 17

2:17pm Thu 13 Mar 14

cynic_the says...

J_Brightonandhove wrote:
Anyone else tired of the Greens constantly saying 'evidence shows...'

WHERE'S THE EVIDENCE?!

Its almost criminal the amount of rubbish they come out with. Zero evidence exists to show people are driving slower in Brighton!

If we're all playing the green game of saying 'evidence shows this and that', well my evidence is they're all a bunch of lying, clueless idiots with no idea how to run a city.
There is no evidence as yet.

The people posting on here like Ania_Green and cleggalike are either trolls or spin doctors. They do not believe what they are writing. They are lying, either to wind people up or to try and proliferate misinformation.

Either that or they are immensely stupid, which I don't believe.
[quote][p][bold]J_Brightonandhove[/bold] wrote: Anyone else tired of the Greens constantly saying 'evidence shows...' WHERE'S THE EVIDENCE?! Its almost criminal the amount of rubbish they come out with. Zero evidence exists to show people are driving slower in Brighton! If we're all playing the green game of saying 'evidence shows this and that', well my evidence is they're all a bunch of lying, clueless idiots with no idea how to run a city.[/p][/quote]There is no evidence as yet. The people posting on here like Ania_Green and cleggalike are either trolls or spin doctors. They do not believe what they are writing. They are lying, either to wind people up or to try and proliferate misinformation. Either that or they are immensely stupid, which I don't believe. cynic_the
  • Score: 16

2:31pm Thu 13 Mar 14

PracticeNotTheories says...

The AA have done research into this, and have PROVEN an 11% increase in emissions moving from 30mph to 20mph (in free flowing traffic), and a 47% increase when adding speed bumps to a 30mph road.
Cars are designed to run effectively at higher speeds, hence the quoted figures for 'Urban' vs 'Motorway' use on car sales details.
I think the council needs to look at how to make pedestrians a little more aware of cars (stop walking in front of them...), and offering VIABLE alternatives to using a car, rather than pricing people out of cars, by forcing them to pay extortionate parking costs and increasing their fuel costs.
The AA have done research into this, and have PROVEN an 11% increase in emissions moving from 30mph to 20mph (in free flowing traffic), and a 47% increase when adding speed bumps to a 30mph road. Cars are designed to run effectively at higher speeds, hence the quoted figures for 'Urban' vs 'Motorway' use on car sales details. I think the council needs to look at how to make pedestrians a little more aware of cars (stop walking in front of them...), and offering VIABLE alternatives to using a car, rather than pricing people out of cars, by forcing them to pay extortionate parking costs and increasing their fuel costs. PracticeNotTheories
  • Score: 16

3:30pm Thu 13 Mar 14

Richada says...

Ania Green wrote:
The 20mph speed limit has been a huge success. We have seen accidents drop and air pollution decrease as a direct result if people driving at 20mph as apprised to 30mph.

The vast majority of residents in Brighton and Hove have been overwhelmingly in support of these new measures so it would be doing them a disservice to not bring in these further changes.
And the vast majority of thumbs down here show that, overwhelmingly, we don't agree with you.

In some specific places there are perfectly sensible reasons for 20 limits - but sadly, by blanketing the city with them, all you do is create a widespread contempt for the 20 limits amongst motorists in general who then disregard them everywhere.

As others have said, traffic moves at the pace that conditions dictate. Your great success in slowing traffic movements throughout the city has been via the appalling traffic mismanagement systems which have caused misery and vastly added pollution for all residents and road users in many areas.

I really think it time that you took your hobbyhorse to Poland and started doing something about the truly dangerous road conditions in towns and cities there (where car really is regarded as "king") - I'm sure that many of your fellow countryfolk would be far more appreciative of your efforts in this direction than the citizens of Brighton and Hove right now.
[quote][p][bold]Ania Green[/bold] wrote: The 20mph speed limit has been a huge success. We have seen accidents drop and air pollution decrease as a direct result if people driving at 20mph as apprised to 30mph. The vast majority of residents in Brighton and Hove have been overwhelmingly in support of these new measures so it would be doing them a disservice to not bring in these further changes.[/p][/quote]And the vast majority of thumbs down here show that, overwhelmingly, we don't agree with you. In some specific places there are perfectly sensible reasons for 20 limits - but sadly, by blanketing the city with them, all you do is create a widespread contempt for the 20 limits amongst motorists in general who then disregard them everywhere. As others have said, traffic moves at the pace that conditions dictate. Your great success in slowing traffic movements throughout the city has been via the appalling traffic mismanagement systems which have caused misery and vastly added pollution for all residents and road users in many areas. I really think it time that you took your hobbyhorse to Poland and started doing something about the truly dangerous road conditions in towns and cities there (where car really is regarded as "king") - I'm sure that many of your fellow countryfolk would be far more appreciative of your efforts in this direction than the citizens of Brighton and Hove right now. Richada
  • Score: 12

4:40pm Thu 13 Mar 14

penbox says...

I drive from southwick to hove and back twice a day. first they reduced part of the old shoreham road from 40 to 30 and it seems I am the only driver to have noticed as everyone sails past me. one thing that does annoy me is that the traffic lights are still set for cars doing 40 so they are out of phase with the traffic. as for the 20mph crap I find I use a lot more fuel now chugging along in 2nd gear engine revving like mad or in 3rd gear doing hops along the road. again the lights haven't been co ordinated with the new lower limits. the thing that really makes my blood boil is the poor car driver gets blamed for everything. people get hit by cars because they do not look before crossing the road. cars do not roar along the pavements mowing people down. it is stupid pedestrians walking in front of moving cars and then the driver ends up in court for driving without due care.. what about charging the pedestrians with not crossing the road with due care? I was driving across a traffic light junction going straight ahead. a cyclist on my left got half way over the junction and suddenly without warning turned right. I hit him because unlike a bike a car needs space to stop. the police were talking about doing me even though I had done nothing wrong. so if you don't want to be hit by a car avoid wandering about in the road and if you are on a bike think CAR! give us space to stop, not expect us to stop in two feet.
I drive from southwick to hove and back twice a day. first they reduced part of the old shoreham road from 40 to 30 and it seems I am the only driver to have noticed as everyone sails past me. one thing that does annoy me is that the traffic lights are still set for cars doing 40 so they are out of phase with the traffic. as for the 20mph crap I find I use a lot more fuel now chugging along in 2nd gear engine revving like mad or in 3rd gear doing hops along the road. again the lights haven't been co ordinated with the new lower limits. the thing that really makes my blood boil is the poor car driver gets blamed for everything. people get hit by cars because they do not look before crossing the road. cars do not roar along the pavements mowing people down. it is stupid pedestrians walking in front of moving cars and then the driver ends up in court for driving without due care.. what about charging the pedestrians with not crossing the road with due care? I was driving across a traffic light junction going straight ahead. a cyclist on my left got half way over the junction and suddenly without warning turned right. I hit him because unlike a bike a car needs space to stop. the police were talking about doing me even though I had done nothing wrong. so if you don't want to be hit by a car avoid wandering about in the road and if you are on a bike think CAR! give us space to stop, not expect us to stop in two feet. penbox
  • Score: 13

5:40pm Thu 13 Mar 14

Steve Heenan says...

Fed up with this. I've got a 1600cc Harley Davidson. It won't travel at 20mph. It's geared for 30mph in low gears. Best I can do is creep along at 10/15mph, then car drivers try to overtake me in single lane roads coz I'm going too slow, and nearly knock me off.
Fed up with this. I've got a 1600cc Harley Davidson. It won't travel at 20mph. It's geared for 30mph in low gears. Best I can do is creep along at 10/15mph, then car drivers try to overtake me in single lane roads coz I'm going too slow, and nearly knock me off. Steve Heenan
  • Score: 11

6:43pm Thu 13 Mar 14

Automaton says...

Even if speed limits are found to have marginally decreased it may well be due to narrower roads to
1. Cycle and bus lanes causing traffic build up
2. Increased numbers of traffic lights especially on the seafront
3. Pavement widening schemes narrowing roads
4. Increased car volume due to numerous new flats being constructed where there were there was previously smaller dwelling
5. increased numbers of cyclists
6. Potholes everywhere
All these factors may cause speed reductions without having to introduce a 20 mph limit as most drivers will drive at a speed suitable for the road conditions
Even if speed limits are found to have marginally decreased it may well be due to narrower roads to 1. Cycle and bus lanes causing traffic build up 2. Increased numbers of traffic lights especially on the seafront 3. Pavement widening schemes narrowing roads 4. Increased car volume due to numerous new flats being constructed where there were there was previously smaller dwelling 5. increased numbers of cyclists 6. Potholes everywhere All these factors may cause speed reductions without having to introduce a 20 mph limit as most drivers will drive at a speed suitable for the road conditions Automaton
  • Score: 10

6:43pm Thu 13 Mar 14

kmhove says...

The vast majority of the suberban roads in the newly proposed area to the west of Hove have never had an accident, let alone a fatality in them. Most of the accidents that have happened have nothing to do with speed (apart from the fact that the vehicle was moving) so why all this ferver to get the whole area down to 20mph when it's totally unnecessary. I think this is just another example ofBrighgton councillors and public servants hating the car for whatever reason and doing anything they can get away with to inconvenience the motorist..
Putting it bluntly, in the 30 odd years that I have lived in my road there has never been an accident, so why should I be forced to drive at 20mph when 30mph has proved perfectly safe?
The vast majority of the suberban roads in the newly proposed area to the west of Hove have never had an accident, let alone a fatality in them. Most of the accidents that have happened have nothing to do with speed (apart from the fact that the vehicle was moving) so why all this ferver to get the whole area down to 20mph when it's totally unnecessary. I think this is just another example ofBrighgton councillors and public servants hating the car for whatever reason and doing anything they can get away with to inconvenience the motorist.. Putting it bluntly, in the 30 odd years that I have lived in my road there has never been an accident, so why should I be forced to drive at 20mph when 30mph has proved perfectly safe? kmhove
  • Score: 9

6:43pm Thu 13 Mar 14

the red head says...

Ania Green wrote:
The 20mph speed limit has been a huge success. We have seen accidents drop and air pollution decrease as a direct result if people driving at 20mph as apprised to 30mph.

The vast majority of residents in Brighton and Hove have been overwhelmingly in support of these new measures so it would be doing them a disservice to not bring in these further changes.
I quite often see this poster on green issues. It is obvious that she is unable, unwilling and immature enough to not engage in the reality of green policies. I think we are all agreed that we had high hope for the greens but this, above all other of their changes, has been a laughable fail. No one adheres to the 20mph. No one enforces the 20 mph. Pedestrians and cyclists are at odds with car and lorries as a result. It is excellent that there are people begging... Jeez, they have to beg.... For evidence and facts before this is rolled out further. The cost to the council of the new signage, etc., is a waste of money that is sorely needed elsewhere. 'A seperate fund' they'll all shout... But what about the copious amounts of hours that council workers are spending on the implementation of failed projects? The amount of money printing consultation leaflets, etc.?

Stick a speed camera on dangerous roads and not only will speeds drop but it will pay for itself within a month or two.

It's surprising it's not criminal; misappropriation of man-hours on something that is clearly not working. Ridiculous.
[quote][p][bold]Ania Green[/bold] wrote: The 20mph speed limit has been a huge success. We have seen accidents drop and air pollution decrease as a direct result if people driving at 20mph as apprised to 30mph. The vast majority of residents in Brighton and Hove have been overwhelmingly in support of these new measures so it would be doing them a disservice to not bring in these further changes.[/p][/quote]I quite often see this poster on green issues. It is obvious that she is unable, unwilling and immature enough to not engage in the reality of green policies. I think we are all agreed that we had high hope for the greens but this, above all other of their changes, has been a laughable fail. No one adheres to the 20mph. No one enforces the 20 mph. Pedestrians and cyclists are at odds with car and lorries as a result. It is excellent that there are people begging... Jeez, they have to beg.... For evidence and facts before this is rolled out further. The cost to the council of the new signage, etc., is a waste of money that is sorely needed elsewhere. 'A seperate fund' they'll all shout... But what about the copious amounts of hours that council workers are spending on the implementation of failed projects? The amount of money printing consultation leaflets, etc.? Stick a speed camera on dangerous roads and not only will speeds drop but it will pay for itself within a month or two. It's surprising it's not criminal; misappropriation of man-hours on something that is clearly not working. Ridiculous. the red head
  • Score: 7

6:43pm Thu 13 Mar 14

the red head says...

Ania Green wrote:
The 20mph speed limit has been a huge success. We have seen accidents drop and air pollution decrease as a direct result if people driving at 20mph as apprised to 30mph.

The vast majority of residents in Brighton and Hove have been overwhelmingly in support of these new measures so it would be doing them a disservice to not bring in these further changes.
I quite often see this poster on green issues. It is obvious that she is unable, unwilling and immature enough to not engage in the reality of green policies. I think we are all agreed that we had high hope for the greens but this, above all other of their changes, has been a laughable fail. No one adheres to the 20mph. No one enforces the 20 mph. Pedestrians and cyclists are at odds with car and lorries as a result. It is excellent that there are people begging... Jeez, they have to beg.... For evidence and facts before this is rolled out further. The cost to the council of the new signage, etc., is a waste of money that is sorely needed elsewhere. 'A seperate fund' they'll all shout... But what about the copious amounts of hours that council workers are spending on the implementation of failed projects? The amount of money printing consultation leaflets, etc.?

Stick a speed camera on dangerous roads and not only will speeds drop but it will pay for itself within a month or two.

It's surprising it's not criminal; misappropriation of man-hours on something that is clearly not working. Ridiculous.
[quote][p][bold]Ania Green[/bold] wrote: The 20mph speed limit has been a huge success. We have seen accidents drop and air pollution decrease as a direct result if people driving at 20mph as apprised to 30mph. The vast majority of residents in Brighton and Hove have been overwhelmingly in support of these new measures so it would be doing them a disservice to not bring in these further changes.[/p][/quote]I quite often see this poster on green issues. It is obvious that she is unable, unwilling and immature enough to not engage in the reality of green policies. I think we are all agreed that we had high hope for the greens but this, above all other of their changes, has been a laughable fail. No one adheres to the 20mph. No one enforces the 20 mph. Pedestrians and cyclists are at odds with car and lorries as a result. It is excellent that there are people begging... Jeez, they have to beg.... For evidence and facts before this is rolled out further. The cost to the council of the new signage, etc., is a waste of money that is sorely needed elsewhere. 'A seperate fund' they'll all shout... But what about the copious amounts of hours that council workers are spending on the implementation of failed projects? The amount of money printing consultation leaflets, etc.? Stick a speed camera on dangerous roads and not only will speeds drop but it will pay for itself within a month or two. It's surprising it's not criminal; misappropriation of man-hours on something that is clearly not working. Ridiculous. the red head
  • Score: 14

7:44pm Thu 13 Mar 14

Ania Green says...

Richada wrote:
Ania Green wrote:
The 20mph speed limit has been a huge success. We have seen accidents drop and air pollution decrease as a direct result if people driving at 20mph as apprised to 30mph.

The vast majority of residents in Brighton and Hove have been overwhelmingly in support of these new measures so it would be doing them a disservice to not bring in these further changes.
And the vast majority of thumbs down here show that, overwhelmingly, we don't agree with you.

In some specific places there are perfectly sensible reasons for 20 limits - but sadly, by blanketing the city with them, all you do is create a widespread contempt for the 20 limits amongst motorists in general who then disregard them everywhere.

As others have said, traffic moves at the pace that conditions dictate. Your great success in slowing traffic movements throughout the city has been via the appalling traffic mismanagement systems which have caused misery and vastly added pollution for all residents and road users in many areas.

I really think it time that you took your hobbyhorse to Poland and started doing something about the truly dangerous road conditions in towns and cities there (where car really is regarded as "king") - I'm sure that many of your fellow countryfolk would be far more appreciative of your efforts in this direction than the citizens of Brighton and Hove right now.
I am not here to improve road safety in Poland so I have no idea why you would mention this. I will, however, pass on your concerns to the people of P
[quote][p][bold]Richada[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Ania Green[/bold] wrote: The 20mph speed limit has been a huge success. We have seen accidents drop and air pollution decrease as a direct result if people driving at 20mph as apprised to 30mph. The vast majority of residents in Brighton and Hove have been overwhelmingly in support of these new measures so it would be doing them a disservice to not bring in these further changes.[/p][/quote]And the vast majority of thumbs down here show that, overwhelmingly, we don't agree with you. In some specific places there are perfectly sensible reasons for 20 limits - but sadly, by blanketing the city with them, all you do is create a widespread contempt for the 20 limits amongst motorists in general who then disregard them everywhere. As others have said, traffic moves at the pace that conditions dictate. Your great success in slowing traffic movements throughout the city has been via the appalling traffic mismanagement systems which have caused misery and vastly added pollution for all residents and road users in many areas. I really think it time that you took your hobbyhorse to Poland and started doing something about the truly dangerous road conditions in towns and cities there (where car really is regarded as "king") - I'm sure that many of your fellow countryfolk would be far more appreciative of your efforts in this direction than the citizens of Brighton and Hove right now.[/p][/quote]I am not here to improve road safety in Poland so I have no idea why you would mention this. I will, however, pass on your concerns to the people of P Ania Green
  • Score: -14

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