The ArgusScores of Sussex schools to close as teachers down tools (From The Argus)

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Scores of Sussex schools to close as teachers down tools

The Argus: Scores of Sussex schools to close as teachers down tools Scores of Sussex schools to close as teachers down tools

Thousands of teachers are set to go on strike next Wednesday - leaving dozens of schools closed across the county.

Tens of thousands of pupils will get the day off as National Union of Teachers (NUT) members take to the picket line over pay, conditions and pensions.

Twenty-nine schools have already confirmed they are to close with many more expected in the coming days.

In Brighton and Hove it is expected most if not all schools will shut.

Phil Clarke, NUT union rep, described the decision to strike as “tough” for all teachers.

He said: “Teachers dedicate themselves to their jobs and striking is never easy. This action is about not only our own pay and conditions but is also the long term future of education for all children.

“Parents unfortunately put out by this strike should lay blame solely with the government and Michael Gove. He refuses to enter into meaningful talks and leaves us with no choice if we are to make ourselves heard.”

There are an estimated 2,000 members of the NUT in Brighton and Hove alone.

Union rep Phil Clarke told The Argus he expected the “vast majority” to partake in the strike action.

He said: “Last time he held action on this scale I think there was perhaps one school left open in the city.

“I expect it to be much the same this time.”

The NUT has around 3,000 members in East Sussex with around the same number again in West Sussex.

In Brighton and Hove the following have already confirmed they will close: Patcham Infant, Patcham Junior, Stanford Junior, Benfield Primary, Brackenbury Primary, Elm Grove Primary, Saltdean Primary, Woodingdean Primary, St Bartholomew's CoE Primary, Varndean, Longhill, Hove Park, Patcham High, Downs View Special and Homewood College.

St Joseph's RC Primary, St Nicolas CoE Primary, Cottesmore St Mary's RC Primary and Blatchington Mill will be part closed.

Currently just three schools in East Sussex have confirmed they will shut: Blacklands Primary in Hastings, Hamsey Community Primary in Lewes and Shinewater Primary in Eastbourne.

A further three in West Sussex will close: Durrington First School, Fishbourne CofE Primary and Southway Junior in Burgess Hill.

Meanwhile four will be part closed: Birchwood Grove Community Primary in Burgess Hill, Field Place First School in Worthing, Kingslea Primary in Horsham and Sackville School in East Grinstead.

The national strike has been called over what the union describe as excessive workload and bureaucracy, performance related pay issues and changes to pensions.

They say teachers regularly work 60 hour weeks. As a result many “burnout” or simply walk away from the profession.

With regards to performance related pay, they say Michael Gove's plans would see teachers working to better themselves rather than looking to improve their school as a whole.

Changes to pensions has also been a contentious issue with teachers now set to pay more, work longer and receive less when they retire.

Mr Clarke added: “This is not the kind of action we take lightly.

“If the government wants a good education system then they need to start valuing those who make it, the teachers.”

Union members will hold a series of marches across the county on Wednesday.

In Brighton and Hove the main rally will be at the Brighthelm Centre in North Road at 11am.

Dozens more schools are expected to announce they will close in the coming days.

For all the latest closures see www.theargus.co.uk.

Comments (30)

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7:36am Fri 21 Mar 14

Quiterie says...

"Performance related pay would see teachers better themselves rather than the school as a whole"?!?!??

Surely if teachers better themselves that DOES improve the school as a whole!

I have a lot of sympathy with teachers because of the pressure they are under and constant meddling from Gove, but there can be no strong argument against performance related pay.
"Performance related pay would see teachers better themselves rather than the school as a whole"?!?!?? Surely if teachers better themselves that DOES improve the school as a whole! I have a lot of sympathy with teachers because of the pressure they are under and constant meddling from Gove, but there can be no strong argument against performance related pay. Quiterie
  • Score: 2

8:28am Fri 21 Mar 14

fredaj says...

Lady on Question Time last night said teachers routinely work 60 hours a week, 20 hours teaching and 40 hours "filling in forms and ticking boxes".

Hands up all those who actually believe this.
Lady on Question Time last night said teachers routinely work 60 hours a week, 20 hours teaching and 40 hours "filling in forms and ticking boxes". Hands up all those who actually believe this. fredaj
  • Score: 0

8:44am Fri 21 Mar 14

plumptonfandango says...

I think I'll take my child out of school on a day of my convenience, so that I can make the most of getting a holiday when it's cheaper, you know, just before half term, when the travel companies hike the prices up.... oh, that's right. I can't. I'll be fined....
I think I'll take my child out of school on a day of my convenience, so that I can make the most of getting a holiday when it's cheaper, you know, just before half term, when the travel companies hike the prices up.... oh, that's right. I can't. I'll be fined.... plumptonfandango
  • Score: 0

8:45am Fri 21 Mar 14

plumptonfandango says...

fredaj wrote:
Lady on Question Time last night said teachers routinely work 60 hours a week, 20 hours teaching and 40 hours "filling in forms and ticking boxes".

Hands up all those who actually believe this.
I mate of mine is a teacher and he does seem to spend a heck of a lot of time in the evenings filling all manner of paperwork in to be fair.
[quote][p][bold]fredaj[/bold] wrote: Lady on Question Time last night said teachers routinely work 60 hours a week, 20 hours teaching and 40 hours "filling in forms and ticking boxes". Hands up all those who actually believe this.[/p][/quote]I mate of mine is a teacher and he does seem to spend a heck of a lot of time in the evenings filling all manner of paperwork in to be fair. plumptonfandango
  • Score: 4

8:58am Fri 21 Mar 14

WooahWooah says...

My sister is a teacher and she works very hard. But she also gets LONG holidays. I work hard too, and don't get long holidays.
My sister is a teacher and she works very hard. But she also gets LONG holidays. I work hard too, and don't get long holidays. WooahWooah
  • Score: 9

9:03am Fri 21 Mar 14

plumptonfandango says...

WooahWooah wrote:
My sister is a teacher and she works very hard. But she also gets LONG holidays. I work hard too, and don't get long holidays.
Ask your sister if she gets paid for those holidays. If I remember correctly, a teachers contract only covers term time, hence the long holidays. I would assume, forgive me if I'm wrong, that you get paid holidays.
[quote][p][bold]WooahWooah[/bold] wrote: My sister is a teacher and she works very hard. But she also gets LONG holidays. I work hard too, and don't get long holidays.[/p][/quote]Ask your sister if she gets paid for those holidays. If I remember correctly, a teachers contract only covers term time, hence the long holidays. I would assume, forgive me if I'm wrong, that you get paid holidays. plumptonfandango
  • Score: 1

9:14am Fri 21 Mar 14

fredaj says...

plumptonfandango wrote:
fredaj wrote:
Lady on Question Time last night said teachers routinely work 60 hours a week, 20 hours teaching and 40 hours "filling in forms and ticking boxes".

Hands up all those who actually believe this.
I mate of mine is a teacher and he does seem to spend a heck of a lot of time in the evenings filling all manner of paperwork in to be fair.
8 hours a day, 5 days a week - routinely?
[quote][p][bold]plumptonfandango[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]fredaj[/bold] wrote: Lady on Question Time last night said teachers routinely work 60 hours a week, 20 hours teaching and 40 hours "filling in forms and ticking boxes". Hands up all those who actually believe this.[/p][/quote]I mate of mine is a teacher and he does seem to spend a heck of a lot of time in the evenings filling all manner of paperwork in to be fair.[/p][/quote]8 hours a day, 5 days a week - routinely? fredaj
  • Score: -3

9:15am Fri 21 Mar 14

fredaj says...

plumptonfandango wrote:
WooahWooah wrote:
My sister is a teacher and she works very hard. But she also gets LONG holidays. I work hard too, and don't get long holidays.
Ask your sister if she gets paid for those holidays. If I remember correctly, a teachers contract only covers term time, hence the long holidays. I would assume, forgive me if I'm wrong, that you get paid holidays.
You are wrong,

But you are forgiven.
[quote][p][bold]plumptonfandango[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]WooahWooah[/bold] wrote: My sister is a teacher and she works very hard. But she also gets LONG holidays. I work hard too, and don't get long holidays.[/p][/quote]Ask your sister if she gets paid for those holidays. If I remember correctly, a teachers contract only covers term time, hence the long holidays. I would assume, forgive me if I'm wrong, that you get paid holidays.[/p][/quote]You are wrong, But you are forgiven. fredaj
  • Score: -1

9:18am Fri 21 Mar 14

plumptonfandango says...

fredaj wrote:
plumptonfandango wrote:
WooahWooah wrote:
My sister is a teacher and she works very hard. But she also gets LONG holidays. I work hard too, and don't get long holidays.
Ask your sister if she gets paid for those holidays. If I remember correctly, a teachers contract only covers term time, hence the long holidays. I would assume, forgive me if I'm wrong, that you get paid holidays.
You are wrong,

But you are forgiven.
Too kind!

So, teachers are paid a full year then? Their contract is for a full year?
[quote][p][bold]fredaj[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]plumptonfandango[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]WooahWooah[/bold] wrote: My sister is a teacher and she works very hard. But she also gets LONG holidays. I work hard too, and don't get long holidays.[/p][/quote]Ask your sister if she gets paid for those holidays. If I remember correctly, a teachers contract only covers term time, hence the long holidays. I would assume, forgive me if I'm wrong, that you get paid holidays.[/p][/quote]You are wrong, But you are forgiven.[/p][/quote]Too kind! So, teachers are paid a full year then? Their contract is for a full year? plumptonfandango
  • Score: 4

9:23am Fri 21 Mar 14

plumptonfandango says...

fredaj wrote:
plumptonfandango wrote:
WooahWooah wrote:
My sister is a teacher and she works very hard. But she also gets LONG holidays. I work hard too, and don't get long holidays.
Ask your sister if she gets paid for those holidays. If I remember correctly, a teachers contract only covers term time, hence the long holidays. I would assume, forgive me if I'm wrong, that you get paid holidays.
You are wrong,

But you are forgiven.
Is a teachers contract not specified for 190 days or something similar, as opposed to a full year?
[quote][p][bold]fredaj[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]plumptonfandango[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]WooahWooah[/bold] wrote: My sister is a teacher and she works very hard. But she also gets LONG holidays. I work hard too, and don't get long holidays.[/p][/quote]Ask your sister if she gets paid for those holidays. If I remember correctly, a teachers contract only covers term time, hence the long holidays. I would assume, forgive me if I'm wrong, that you get paid holidays.[/p][/quote]You are wrong, But you are forgiven.[/p][/quote]Is a teachers contract not specified for 190 days or something similar, as opposed to a full year? plumptonfandango
  • Score: 2

9:23am Fri 21 Mar 14

Fight_Back says...

plumptonfandango wrote:
WooahWooah wrote:
My sister is a teacher and she works very hard. But she also gets LONG holidays. I work hard too, and don't get long holidays.
Ask your sister if she gets paid for those holidays. If I remember correctly, a teachers contract only covers term time, hence the long holidays. I would assume, forgive me if I'm wrong, that you get paid holidays.
Yes they do get paid. Like a vast majority of people they get a yearly salary paid in 12 equal lumps. This includes their holidays. The only real differences being that they get vastly more than the 23 days most people get but they don't get to decide when to take their holidays, it is decided for them.
[quote][p][bold]plumptonfandango[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]WooahWooah[/bold] wrote: My sister is a teacher and she works very hard. But she also gets LONG holidays. I work hard too, and don't get long holidays.[/p][/quote]Ask your sister if she gets paid for those holidays. If I remember correctly, a teachers contract only covers term time, hence the long holidays. I would assume, forgive me if I'm wrong, that you get paid holidays.[/p][/quote]Yes they do get paid. Like a vast majority of people they get a yearly salary paid in 12 equal lumps. This includes their holidays. The only real differences being that they get vastly more than the 23 days most people get but they don't get to decide when to take their holidays, it is decided for them. Fight_Back
  • Score: -1

9:36am Fri 21 Mar 14

Lostandaway says...

Here we go again.
Teacher contracts state 195 days when they must be available for work. This time includes a contractual 1265 hours per year work.
Work times and days are to be directed by the Head Teacher.
No teacher can be made to work on a Saturday or Sunday.
Extra time may be allocated for the discharge of duties. Hence a teacher may be working more than the directed hours.
As for the 12 month Red Herring this money is paid in 12 payments purely to prevent a teacher from signing on for unemployment benefit as they are pnot paid for the remaining days.
Teachers in other countries do sign on and get better benefits. Hence more money.
I'm bored now.
Here we go again. Teacher contracts state 195 days when they must be available for work. This time includes a contractual 1265 hours per year work. Work times and days are to be directed by the Head Teacher. No teacher can be made to work on a Saturday or Sunday. Extra time may be allocated for the discharge of duties. Hence a teacher may be working more than the directed hours. As for the 12 month Red Herring this money is paid in 12 payments purely to prevent a teacher from signing on for unemployment benefit as they are pnot paid for the remaining days. Teachers in other countries do sign on and get better benefits. Hence more money. I'm bored now. Lostandaway
  • Score: 3

9:37am Fri 21 Mar 14

plumptonfandango says...

Fight_Back wrote:
plumptonfandango wrote:
WooahWooah wrote:
My sister is a teacher and she works very hard. But she also gets LONG holidays. I work hard too, and don't get long holidays.
Ask your sister if she gets paid for those holidays. If I remember correctly, a teachers contract only covers term time, hence the long holidays. I would assume, forgive me if I'm wrong, that you get paid holidays.
Yes they do get paid. Like a vast majority of people they get a yearly salary paid in 12 equal lumps. This includes their holidays. The only real differences being that they get vastly more than the 23 days most people get but they don't get to decide when to take their holidays, it is decided for them.
Can't get hold of my mate, he's in class, but thought I'd do a bit of digging around to clarify things....

"As a colleague has already mentioned, you are paid during the holidays because your annual salary is divided up into 12 x monthly blocks. You will not receive and are not entitled to holiday pay. It is paid this way to make it convenient for teachers to budget. You are only paid for the 1265 hours you work as directed time. Thus you are free to find temporary employment in the holidays. Teachers on temporary contracts and supply are paid differently.

But you can only be directed to work your 1265 hours over the 195 days you are contracted for.....

195 days = 39 weeks.....

52 - 39 = 13 weeks....

It is up to teachers how they manage this time and whether they chose to or need to 'work' during this vacation time."

Still investigating further.....
[quote][p][bold]Fight_Back[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]plumptonfandango[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]WooahWooah[/bold] wrote: My sister is a teacher and she works very hard. But she also gets LONG holidays. I work hard too, and don't get long holidays.[/p][/quote]Ask your sister if she gets paid for those holidays. If I remember correctly, a teachers contract only covers term time, hence the long holidays. I would assume, forgive me if I'm wrong, that you get paid holidays.[/p][/quote]Yes they do get paid. Like a vast majority of people they get a yearly salary paid in 12 equal lumps. This includes their holidays. The only real differences being that they get vastly more than the 23 days most people get but they don't get to decide when to take their holidays, it is decided for them.[/p][/quote]Can't get hold of my mate, he's in class, but thought I'd do a bit of digging around to clarify things.... "As a colleague has already mentioned, you are paid during the holidays because your annual salary is divided up into 12 x monthly blocks. You will not receive and are not entitled to holiday pay. It is paid this way to make it convenient for teachers to budget. You are only paid for the 1265 hours you work as directed time. Thus you are free to find temporary employment in the holidays. Teachers on temporary contracts and supply are paid differently. But you can only be directed to work your 1265 hours over the 195 days you are contracted for..... 195 days = 39 weeks..... 52 - 39 = 13 weeks.... It is up to teachers how they manage this time and whether they chose to or need to 'work' during this vacation time." Still investigating further..... plumptonfandango
  • Score: 0

9:38am Fri 21 Mar 14

plumptonfandango says...

Lostandaway wrote:
Here we go again.
Teacher contracts state 195 days when they must be available for work. This time includes a contractual 1265 hours per year work.
Work times and days are to be directed by the Head Teacher.
No teacher can be made to work on a Saturday or Sunday.
Extra time may be allocated for the discharge of duties. Hence a teacher may be working more than the directed hours.
As for the 12 month Red Herring this money is paid in 12 payments purely to prevent a teacher from signing on for unemployment benefit as they are pnot paid for the remaining days.
Teachers in other countries do sign on and get better benefits. Hence more money.
I'm bored now.
You got there before me!
[quote][p][bold]Lostandaway[/bold] wrote: Here we go again. Teacher contracts state 195 days when they must be available for work. This time includes a contractual 1265 hours per year work. Work times and days are to be directed by the Head Teacher. No teacher can be made to work on a Saturday or Sunday. Extra time may be allocated for the discharge of duties. Hence a teacher may be working more than the directed hours. As for the 12 month Red Herring this money is paid in 12 payments purely to prevent a teacher from signing on for unemployment benefit as they are pnot paid for the remaining days. Teachers in other countries do sign on and get better benefits. Hence more money. I'm bored now.[/p][/quote]You got there before me! plumptonfandango
  • Score: 0

9:39am Fri 21 Mar 14

Fight_Back says...

Fight_Back wrote:
plumptonfandango wrote:
WooahWooah wrote:
My sister is a teacher and she works very hard. But she also gets LONG holidays. I work hard too, and don't get long holidays.
Ask your sister if she gets paid for those holidays. If I remember correctly, a teachers contract only covers term time, hence the long holidays. I would assume, forgive me if I'm wrong, that you get paid holidays.
Yes they do get paid. Like a vast majority of people they get a yearly salary paid in 12 equal lumps. This includes their holidays. The only real differences being that they get vastly more than the 23 days most people get but they don't get to decide when to take their holidays, it is decided for them.
Or if you really want to do it on contracted days - i.e. teachers are contracted for 190 days a year and only paid for said days they are extremely well paid. It would mean a teacher earning £30k for their 190 days is earning the equivalent of nearly £42k a year if they worked the industry normal 264 days a year. Hardly being done up like kippers are they ?
[quote][p][bold]Fight_Back[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]plumptonfandango[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]WooahWooah[/bold] wrote: My sister is a teacher and she works very hard. But she also gets LONG holidays. I work hard too, and don't get long holidays.[/p][/quote]Ask your sister if she gets paid for those holidays. If I remember correctly, a teachers contract only covers term time, hence the long holidays. I would assume, forgive me if I'm wrong, that you get paid holidays.[/p][/quote]Yes they do get paid. Like a vast majority of people they get a yearly salary paid in 12 equal lumps. This includes their holidays. The only real differences being that they get vastly more than the 23 days most people get but they don't get to decide when to take their holidays, it is decided for them.[/p][/quote]Or if you really want to do it on contracted days - i.e. teachers are contracted for 190 days a year and only paid for said days they are extremely well paid. It would mean a teacher earning £30k for their 190 days is earning the equivalent of nearly £42k a year if they worked the industry normal 264 days a year. Hardly being done up like kippers are they ? Fight_Back
  • Score: 0

9:43am Fri 21 Mar 14

Lostandaway says...

Now here's a thing for all those people who work weekly.
If there are 52 weeks in the year and 7 days in every week That makes 364 days, but there are 365 days in the year and 366 in a leap year. So you are all working for 1 extra day of a year without pay.
Oh and before anyone makes a comment the Benefit sysyem takes account of this by paying in 4 week installments.
Now here's a thing for all those people who work weekly. If there are 52 weeks in the year and 7 days in every week That makes 364 days, but there are 365 days in the year and 366 in a leap year. So you are all working for 1 extra day of a year without pay. Oh and before anyone makes a comment the Benefit sysyem takes account of this by paying in 4 week installments. Lostandaway
  • Score: 0

9:50am Fri 21 Mar 14

Lostandaway says...

But Fight-Back
They don't work in industry and they are not paid fairly as they are indeed unemployed for the rest of the year. In the early seventies East Sussex did recognise the contract issues and paid teachers their salaries to the end of July. Hence unemployed in August.
Their contracts stated that they were paid for 3 terms work. They could seek other emmployment in the summer or sign on.
But Fight-Back They don't work in industry and they are not paid fairly as they are indeed unemployed for the rest of the year. In the early seventies East Sussex did recognise the contract issues and paid teachers their salaries to the end of July. Hence unemployed in August. Their contracts stated that they were paid for 3 terms work. They could seek other emmployment in the summer or sign on. Lostandaway
  • Score: 0

9:53am Fri 21 Mar 14

Lostandaway says...

I'm surprised you are all getting so upset.
Why not take the time to look at the Banking industry and do the maths about where your money is going and see how you are really losing out.
Better still do the costings on the Budget and see what you really don't get.
Stop getting distracted.
I'm surprised you are all getting so upset. Why not take the time to look at the Banking industry and do the maths about where your money is going and see how you are really losing out. Better still do the costings on the Budget and see what you really don't get. Stop getting distracted. Lostandaway
  • Score: 1

9:57am Fri 21 Mar 14

plumptonfandango says...

Lostandaway wrote:
I'm surprised you are all getting so upset.
Why not take the time to look at the Banking industry and do the maths about where your money is going and see how you are really losing out.
Better still do the costings on the Budget and see what you really don't get.
Stop getting distracted.
As I said to start with, what irks me more is the fact that teachers can simply drop everything and strike.

And yet if I want to take my child out of school a day or so earlier than half term so I can afford to take a holiday, I run the risk of being fined.
[quote][p][bold]Lostandaway[/bold] wrote: I'm surprised you are all getting so upset. Why not take the time to look at the Banking industry and do the maths about where your money is going and see how you are really losing out. Better still do the costings on the Budget and see what you really don't get. Stop getting distracted.[/p][/quote]As I said to start with, what irks me more is the fact that teachers can simply drop everything and strike. And yet if I want to take my child out of school a day or so earlier than half term so I can afford to take a holiday, I run the risk of being fined. plumptonfandango
  • Score: -2

9:59am Fri 21 Mar 14

plumptonfandango says...

Hilarious..... elsewhere on the Argus.... "Are parents' evening home visits a good idea?"
Hilarious..... elsewhere on the Argus.... "Are parents' evening home visits a good idea?" plumptonfandango
  • Score: 0

10:11am Fri 21 Mar 14

Fight_Back says...

Lostandaway wrote:
I'm surprised you are all getting so upset.
Why not take the time to look at the Banking industry and do the maths about where your money is going and see how you are really losing out.
Better still do the costings on the Budget and see what you really don't get.
Stop getting distracted.
I'm not upset but I do get annoyed that teachers think they're hard done by. They are well paid whichever way you calculate it, get favorable pensions ( note I have not said gold plated ) and very good "holidays".

In return parents get a weeks notice to arrange often expensive child care - the unions couldn't even be professional enough to give say two or three weeks notice to assist parents. Yet they say the aim isn't to inconvenience parents or children - of course it is.

Add on top of this the constant demands of ever more money for art materials, cooking ingredients, changes to uniform rules and schools try to bleed the last penny out of parents.

That doesn't even touch on the extortionately expensive school trips that are limited to the richest parents, that take place IN TERM time thus leaving those that couldn't go continuing their lessons while the lucky few get to prance around places like New York. Strange how it's OK for a school to take kids out of lessons to travel but not parents ?
[quote][p][bold]Lostandaway[/bold] wrote: I'm surprised you are all getting so upset. Why not take the time to look at the Banking industry and do the maths about where your money is going and see how you are really losing out. Better still do the costings on the Budget and see what you really don't get. Stop getting distracted.[/p][/quote]I'm not upset but I do get annoyed that teachers think they're hard done by. They are well paid whichever way you calculate it, get favorable pensions ( note I have not said gold plated ) and very good "holidays". In return parents get a weeks notice to arrange often expensive child care - the unions couldn't even be professional enough to give say two or three weeks notice to assist parents. Yet they say the aim isn't to inconvenience parents or children - of course it is. Add on top of this the constant demands of ever more money for art materials, cooking ingredients, changes to uniform rules and schools try to bleed the last penny out of parents. That doesn't even touch on the extortionately expensive school trips that are limited to the richest parents, that take place IN TERM time thus leaving those that couldn't go continuing their lessons while the lucky few get to prance around places like New York. Strange how it's OK for a school to take kids out of lessons to travel but not parents ? Fight_Back
  • Score: 0

10:13am Fri 21 Mar 14

Rrrjjjmmm says...

Performance related pay is a complete nonsense and will lead to 'elite' areas attracting the best teachers on high salaries, and the schools where circumstances suggest a need for quality teachers, the worst - who wants to set themselves up for a tough gig at a tough school for worse pay. I'm not a teacher, but that to me is just common sense.

If a teacher's salary is linked to the performance - mostly measured on their student progress through testing, SATs, etc - this will further compound the holiday/fine issue. No child is going to perform as strongly as their class-mates if they miss 1 or 2 weeks of schooling. And if there are many children taking different times out of class, how is a teacher meant to 'perform' and deliver the results that are insisted upon by their employer.

This is without even considering how both performance related pay and time out of class impact learning.
Performance related pay is a complete nonsense and will lead to 'elite' areas attracting the best teachers on high salaries, and the schools where circumstances suggest a need for quality teachers, the worst - who wants to set themselves up for a tough gig at a tough school for worse pay. I'm not a teacher, but that to me is just common sense. If a teacher's salary is linked to the performance - mostly measured on their student progress through testing, SATs, etc - this will further compound the holiday/fine issue. No child is going to perform as strongly as their class-mates if they miss 1 or 2 weeks of schooling. And if there are many children taking different times out of class, how is a teacher meant to 'perform' and deliver the results that are insisted upon by their employer. This is without even considering how both performance related pay and time out of class impact learning. Rrrjjjmmm
  • Score: 2

10:26am Fri 21 Mar 14

Lostandaway says...

Fight-Back
Some good points, we parents do indeed get a raw deal at times. However that situation arises not from the teachers but the Ministers for Education.
By the way the Teachers Pension only promises to pay a pension equivalent to the Second State Pension, which we may all get by payment through our National Insurance.
As you all know Teachers are Contracted Out of the second pension tier and so don't get it.
The extra pension that they receive is achieved through a payment of 6% gross deducted before payment of their salary. I think they then get a top up from the council of 8% of their salary in addition. Hence, as with most Government workers they pay up to 14% of their wages from start to finish to get the so called good pension.
Any Financial Advisor will be more than happy to show you how you may achieve the same benefits come the day.
Fight-Back Some good points, we parents do indeed get a raw deal at times. However that situation arises not from the teachers but the Ministers for Education. By the way the Teachers Pension only promises to pay a pension equivalent to the Second State Pension, which we may all get by payment through our National Insurance. As you all know Teachers are Contracted Out of the second pension tier and so don't get it. The extra pension that they receive is achieved through a payment of 6% gross deducted before payment of their salary. I think they then get a top up from the council of 8% of their salary in addition. Hence, as with most Government workers they pay up to 14% of their wages from start to finish to get the so called good pension. Any Financial Advisor will be more than happy to show you how you may achieve the same benefits come the day. Lostandaway
  • Score: 1

10:27am Fri 21 Mar 14

ThinkBrighton says...

If you take your child away from school without a valid reason you get fined,
the teachers have a day of mid-term what do they get - other than a chance to stand on a picket line and intimidate anyone who tries to cross it and then go on a march to set an example to their pupils by acting like morons!
All this and they still get more than 10 weeks holiday a year, they are really hard done by.
If you take your child away from school without a valid reason you get fined, the teachers have a day of mid-term what do they get - other than a chance to stand on a picket line and intimidate anyone who tries to cross it and then go on a march to set an example to their pupils by acting like morons! All this and they still get more than 10 weeks holiday a year, they are really hard done by. ThinkBrighton
  • Score: -5

10:58am Fri 21 Mar 14

whatevernext2013 says...

plumptonfandango wrote:
Lostandaway wrote:
I'm surprised you are all getting so upset.
Why not take the time to look at the Banking industry and do the maths about where your money is going and see how you are really losing out.
Better still do the costings on the Budget and see what you really don't get.
Stop getting distracted.
As I said to start with, what irks me more is the fact that teachers can simply drop everything and strike.

And yet if I want to take my child out of school a day or so earlier than half term so I can afford to take a holiday, I run the risk of being fined.
re the fine ,its for 5 days in row ,so you can take 4 days plus the weekend to give you 6 days off ,and no fine
[quote][p][bold]plumptonfandango[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Lostandaway[/bold] wrote: I'm surprised you are all getting so upset. Why not take the time to look at the Banking industry and do the maths about where your money is going and see how you are really losing out. Better still do the costings on the Budget and see what you really don't get. Stop getting distracted.[/p][/quote]As I said to start with, what irks me more is the fact that teachers can simply drop everything and strike. And yet if I want to take my child out of school a day or so earlier than half term so I can afford to take a holiday, I run the risk of being fined.[/p][/quote]re the fine ,its for 5 days in row ,so you can take 4 days plus the weekend to give you 6 days off ,and no fine whatevernext2013
  • Score: 1

11:01am Fri 21 Mar 14

whatevernext2013 says...

Fight_Back wrote:
Fight_Back wrote:
plumptonfandango wrote:
WooahWooah wrote:
My sister is a teacher and she works very hard. But she also gets LONG holidays. I work hard too, and don't get long holidays.
Ask your sister if she gets paid for those holidays. If I remember correctly, a teachers contract only covers term time, hence the long holidays. I would assume, forgive me if I'm wrong, that you get paid holidays.
Yes they do get paid. Like a vast majority of people they get a yearly salary paid in 12 equal lumps. This includes their holidays. The only real differences being that they get vastly more than the 23 days most people get but they don't get to decide when to take their holidays, it is decided for them.
Or if you really want to do it on contracted days - i.e. teachers are contracted for 190 days a year and only paid for said days they are extremely well paid. It would mean a teacher earning £30k for their 190 days is earning the equivalent of nearly £42k a year if they worked the industry normal 264 days a year. Hardly being done up like kippers are they ?
at the end of the day no one forced they in to teaching ,they knew what they were getting in to
[quote][p][bold]Fight_Back[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Fight_Back[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]plumptonfandango[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]WooahWooah[/bold] wrote: My sister is a teacher and she works very hard. But she also gets LONG holidays. I work hard too, and don't get long holidays.[/p][/quote]Ask your sister if she gets paid for those holidays. If I remember correctly, a teachers contract only covers term time, hence the long holidays. I would assume, forgive me if I'm wrong, that you get paid holidays.[/p][/quote]Yes they do get paid. Like a vast majority of people they get a yearly salary paid in 12 equal lumps. This includes their holidays. The only real differences being that they get vastly more than the 23 days most people get but they don't get to decide when to take their holidays, it is decided for them.[/p][/quote]Or if you really want to do it on contracted days - i.e. teachers are contracted for 190 days a year and only paid for said days they are extremely well paid. It would mean a teacher earning £30k for their 190 days is earning the equivalent of nearly £42k a year if they worked the industry normal 264 days a year. Hardly being done up like kippers are they ?[/p][/quote]at the end of the day no one forced they in to teaching ,they knew what they were getting in to whatevernext2013
  • Score: 0

11:14am Fri 21 Mar 14

plumptonfandango says...

Fight_Back wrote:
Lostandaway wrote:
I'm surprised you are all getting so upset.
Why not take the time to look at the Banking industry and do the maths about where your money is going and see how you are really losing out.
Better still do the costings on the Budget and see what you really don't get.
Stop getting distracted.
I'm not upset but I do get annoyed that teachers think they're hard done by. They are well paid whichever way you calculate it, get favorable pensions ( note I have not said gold plated ) and very good "holidays".

In return parents get a weeks notice to arrange often expensive child care - the unions couldn't even be professional enough to give say two or three weeks notice to assist parents. Yet they say the aim isn't to inconvenience parents or children - of course it is.

Add on top of this the constant demands of ever more money for art materials, cooking ingredients, changes to uniform rules and schools try to bleed the last penny out of parents.

That doesn't even touch on the extortionately expensive school trips that are limited to the richest parents, that take place IN TERM time thus leaving those that couldn't go continuing their lessons while the lucky few get to prance around places like New York. Strange how it's OK for a school to take kids out of lessons to travel but not parents ?
Not to mention the fact that in a lot of my local state schools there is no money in the budget for text books.... plenty of money for "soft subjects" to get lovely tablets gadgets for the kids though..... I was told to go buy a text book if I wanted one.....
[quote][p][bold]Fight_Back[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Lostandaway[/bold] wrote: I'm surprised you are all getting so upset. Why not take the time to look at the Banking industry and do the maths about where your money is going and see how you are really losing out. Better still do the costings on the Budget and see what you really don't get. Stop getting distracted.[/p][/quote]I'm not upset but I do get annoyed that teachers think they're hard done by. They are well paid whichever way you calculate it, get favorable pensions ( note I have not said gold plated ) and very good "holidays". In return parents get a weeks notice to arrange often expensive child care - the unions couldn't even be professional enough to give say two or three weeks notice to assist parents. Yet they say the aim isn't to inconvenience parents or children - of course it is. Add on top of this the constant demands of ever more money for art materials, cooking ingredients, changes to uniform rules and schools try to bleed the last penny out of parents. That doesn't even touch on the extortionately expensive school trips that are limited to the richest parents, that take place IN TERM time thus leaving those that couldn't go continuing their lessons while the lucky few get to prance around places like New York. Strange how it's OK for a school to take kids out of lessons to travel but not parents ?[/p][/quote]Not to mention the fact that in a lot of my local state schools there is no money in the budget for text books.... plenty of money for "soft subjects" to get lovely tablets gadgets for the kids though..... I was told to go buy a text book if I wanted one..... plumptonfandango
  • Score: -1

12:47pm Fri 21 Mar 14

Stoney33 says...

Performance related pay for parents would be better

If your child turns up with the right attitude and willingness at school, you get your child benefit

If they turn up, are rude, abusive and disruptive, you lose out

I better the teachers would be happier then
Performance related pay for parents would be better If your child turns up with the right attitude and willingness at school, you get your child benefit If they turn up, are rude, abusive and disruptive, you lose out I better the teachers would be happier then Stoney33
  • Score: 3

10:05pm Fri 21 Mar 14

xlaughingx says...

Fight_Back wrote:
Lostandaway wrote:
I'm surprised you are all getting so upset.
Why not take the time to look at the Banking industry and do the maths about where your money is going and see how you are really losing out.
Better still do the costings on the Budget and see what you really don't get.
Stop getting distracted.
I'm not upset but I do get annoyed that teachers think they're hard done by. They are well paid whichever way you calculate it, get favorable pensions ( note I have not said gold plated ) and very good "holidays".

In return parents get a weeks notice to arrange often expensive child care - the unions couldn't even be professional enough to give say two or three weeks notice to assist parents. Yet they say the aim isn't to inconvenience parents or children - of course it is.

Add on top of this the constant demands of ever more money for art materials, cooking ingredients, changes to uniform rules and schools try to bleed the last penny out of parents.

That doesn't even touch on the extortionately expensive school trips that are limited to the richest parents, that take place IN TERM time thus leaving those that couldn't go continuing their lessons while the lucky few get to prance around places like New York. Strange how it's OK for a school to take kids out of lessons to travel but not parents ?
Schools are not legally permitted to charge pupils for trips during school time.... so any parent- not just the ones that claim benefits , can refuse to pay (of course this may mean that the school cancel the trip once they realise they have no funds for it)- all payments are voluntary.
Please note that teachers ALWAYS have to pay the most expensive prices for their holidays too.
[quote][p][bold]Fight_Back[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Lostandaway[/bold] wrote: I'm surprised you are all getting so upset. Why not take the time to look at the Banking industry and do the maths about where your money is going and see how you are really losing out. Better still do the costings on the Budget and see what you really don't get. Stop getting distracted.[/p][/quote]I'm not upset but I do get annoyed that teachers think they're hard done by. They are well paid whichever way you calculate it, get favorable pensions ( note I have not said gold plated ) and very good "holidays". In return parents get a weeks notice to arrange often expensive child care - the unions couldn't even be professional enough to give say two or three weeks notice to assist parents. Yet they say the aim isn't to inconvenience parents or children - of course it is. Add on top of this the constant demands of ever more money for art materials, cooking ingredients, changes to uniform rules and schools try to bleed the last penny out of parents. That doesn't even touch on the extortionately expensive school trips that are limited to the richest parents, that take place IN TERM time thus leaving those that couldn't go continuing their lessons while the lucky few get to prance around places like New York. Strange how it's OK for a school to take kids out of lessons to travel but not parents ?[/p][/quote]Schools are not legally permitted to charge pupils for trips during school time.... so any parent- not just the ones that claim benefits , can refuse to pay (of course this may mean that the school cancel the trip once they realise they have no funds for it)- all payments are voluntary. Please note that teachers ALWAYS have to pay the most expensive prices for their holidays too. xlaughingx
  • Score: 1

12:03pm Mon 24 Mar 14

indiequeen says...

plumptonfandango wrote:
I think I'll take my child out of school on a day of my convenience, so that I can make the most of getting a holiday when it's cheaper, you know, just before half term, when the travel companies hike the prices up.... oh, that's right. I can't. I'll be fined....
I would think as a responsible parent it would be the thought of your child being a whole days worth of education behind the rest of the class that would deter you, rather than a fine. When theres a strike day no one misses any teaching as no teaching is done that day!
[quote][p][bold]plumptonfandango[/bold] wrote: I think I'll take my child out of school on a day of my convenience, so that I can make the most of getting a holiday when it's cheaper, you know, just before half term, when the travel companies hike the prices up.... oh, that's right. I can't. I'll be fined....[/p][/quote]I would think as a responsible parent it would be the thought of your child being a whole days worth of education behind the rest of the class that would deter you, rather than a fine. When theres a strike day no one misses any teaching as no teaching is done that day! indiequeen
  • Score: 0

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