St Leonards father killed his five-week-old daughter after she distracted him from a video game

Father killed his five-week-old daughter after she distracted him from a video game

Father killed his five-week-old daughter after she distracted him from a video game

First published in News
Last updated

A FATHER killed his five-week-old daughter after becoming frustrated by the distraction of her screaming as he tried to play a video game, a court was told.

Mark Sandland, 28, had a “sudden loss of temper” and shook Aimee-Rose shortly after looking up real-time instructions on playing Assassins Creed 3, prosecutors said.

The baby was rushed to Conquest Hospital in Hastings with brain damage and other injuries, before being transferred to King’s College Hospital on November 9, 2012.

Aimee-Rose died in her mother’s arms after doctors switched off her life support machine.

Sandland, who has pleaded guilty to manslaughter, told paramedics and police he had an epileptic fit and woke up on top of his daughter. However, doctors said Aimee-Rose’s injuries, including brain damage and bruising to her face and chest, were not consistent with an incident of that nature.

Aimee-Rose died of a head injury consistent with shaking, Lewes Crown Court was told.

Sandland was looking after his daughter at their home in Church Road, St Leonards, on November 5, 2012 while her mother went to university in Brighton for the first day of her applied social sciences degree. Sally Howes QC, prosecuting, said Sandland had accessed a “help line” website that gave step-by-step instructions on how to play Assassins Creed 3 on Sony PlayStation, 16 minutes and 24 seconds before phoning 999 to say his daughter was lifeless and her lips blue.

Ms Howes said: “It is the Crown’s case that, frustrated by the distraction of Aimee-Rose screaming, the defendant picked her up and grabbed her round the torso in a sudden loss of temper and loss of control.”

The court was told that Sandland had texted his partner that day saying their daughter had not “shut up” since she had left half an hour before.

Ms Howes said Sandland suffered from Guillain-Barré syndrome, a neurological condition which causes paralysis, and functional non-epileptic attack disorder, which causes seizures.

The court was also told that medical experts do not think he was having a seizure when he injured his daughter.

Psychiatrist Dr Duncan Anderson said Sandland satisfied the criteria of borderline emotionally unstable personality disorder, while other experts agreed that he struggled to cope with stress.

Lewis Power QC, mitigating, said his client would “carry the heavy burden of knowing for the rest of his life that he killed his young daughter”.

He also emphasised Sandland’s health problems, difficulty coping with stress, and abandonment by his mother when he was one year old. He was eventually raised by his grandparents.

Mr Power added that his client’s strongest mitigation was that he had pleaded guilty, noting he was “full of contrition and remorse”.

Wearing a grey suit, Sandland sobbed in the dock throughout the majority of the hearing. He is due to be sentenced tomorrow.

Comments (15)

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7:02pm Mon 7 Jul 14

UglyAmerican says...

Please don't refer to this person as a "Father". Genetic contributor at best, but certainly not a father.
Please don't refer to this person as a "Father". Genetic contributor at best, but certainly not a father. UglyAmerican
  • Score: 53

7:40pm Mon 7 Jul 14

Take it Personally says...

-speechless-
-speechless- Take it Personally
  • Score: 20

7:53pm Mon 7 Jul 14

NathanAdler says...

Nothing will bring back the sweet little girl, but lets hope this piece of filth is NEVER forgotten in prison NEVER.

And may every day of his prison existence be filled with fear and torture.
Nothing will bring back the sweet little girl, but lets hope this piece of filth is NEVER forgotten in prison NEVER. And may every day of his prison existence be filled with fear and torture. NathanAdler
  • Score: 27

10:06pm Mon 7 Jul 14

hubby says...

Part of a very strange generation that thinks video games are real life.
He probably thought he could push "reset" and she would come back to life.
Poor little mite didn't deserve filth like this as a parent.
RIP. Little Angel.
Part of a very strange generation that thinks video games are real life. He probably thought he could push "reset" and she would come back to life. Poor little mite didn't deserve filth like this as a parent. RIP. Little Angel. hubby
  • Score: 9

11:29pm Mon 7 Jul 14

Valerie Paynter says...

Having a child is a major distraction that REQUIRES a willingness to put that family responsibility at the centre of existence for a few years. It needs maturity and love to deal with the demands and, yes, the frustrations and stress. It is a job, duty, privilege to protect and keep off spring alive, well and thriving.

Too many young people seem to lack survival skills, to be self-absorbed or angry. Everyone needs to think about what is involved and how much security and stability they have as a platform under them before they bring children into this world.

This boy-man sounds too damaged to have been fit to serve as a father in the first place. Now he will be further damaged because of what he did and unlike the commenters above I would like to see his sentence reflect a need to straighten him out, sort him so he does not become a lifelong problem for others.
Having a child is a major distraction that REQUIRES a willingness to put that family responsibility at the centre of existence for a few years. It needs maturity and love to deal with the demands and, yes, the frustrations and stress. It is a job, duty, privilege to protect and keep off spring alive, well and thriving. Too many young people seem to lack survival skills, to be self-absorbed or angry. Everyone needs to think about what is involved and how much security and stability they have as a platform under them before they bring children into this world. This boy-man sounds too damaged to have been fit to serve as a father in the first place. Now he will be further damaged because of what he did and unlike the commenters above I would like to see his sentence reflect a need to straighten him out, sort him so he does not become a lifelong problem for others. Valerie Paynter
  • Score: 23

11:46pm Mon 7 Jul 14

BrightonTrooper says...

NathanAdler wrote:
Nothing will bring back the sweet little girl, but lets hope this piece of filth is NEVER forgotten in prison NEVER.

And may every day of his prison existence be filled with fear and torture.
This is a dam good reason why the rope needs to come back.

This scum has taken the life of such an innocent child.

Whatever his sentence is, it will never be long enough. Yet another worthless piece of air breathing cr@p taxpayers will unwillingly keep alive in jail.
[quote][p][bold]NathanAdler[/bold] wrote: Nothing will bring back the sweet little girl, but lets hope this piece of filth is NEVER forgotten in prison NEVER. And may every day of his prison existence be filled with fear and torture.[/p][/quote]This is a dam good reason why the rope needs to come back. This scum has taken the life of such an innocent child. Whatever his sentence is, it will never be long enough. Yet another worthless piece of air breathing cr@p taxpayers will unwillingly keep alive in jail. BrightonTrooper
  • Score: -15

11:52pm Mon 7 Jul 14

Valerie Paynter says...

When a baby us crying, pick it up; feed, clean or just hold it. In the west there is the sick notion that crying must be 'disciplined' and treated as spoilt or unreasonable behaviour, ignored. That reaction is simply spiteful and bullying. If crying is about distress in an adult, why would it not be about fear, pain or distress in a baby!?

Many years ago, Leonely Planet wrote in its China travel guide book about all the small children to be seen carried by men and women alike - and the fact that they never seemed to cry. Their children are treasured and kept happy in early years - or they were. As China now greeds-up to western materialistic levels this may have changed - or not.

A Chinese friend said back then "Chinese people believe if you treat your kids well when they are young, they will treat you well when you are old". Once in school things get much more about discipline there than here.
When a baby us crying, pick it up; feed, clean or just hold it. In the west there is the sick notion that crying must be 'disciplined' and treated as spoilt or unreasonable behaviour, ignored. That reaction is simply spiteful and bullying. If crying is about distress in an adult, why would it not be about fear, pain or distress in a baby!? Many years ago, Leonely Planet wrote in its China travel guide book about all the small children to be seen carried by men and women alike - and the fact that they never seemed to cry. Their children are treasured and kept happy in early years - or they were. As China now greeds-up to western materialistic levels this may have changed - or not. A Chinese friend said back then "Chinese people believe if you treat your kids well when they are young, they will treat you well when you are old". Once in school things get much more about discipline there than here. Valerie Paynter
  • Score: 7

6:08am Tue 8 Jul 14

lindaf says...

Valerie Paynter wrote:
When a baby us crying, pick it up; feed, clean or just hold it. In the west there is the sick notion that crying must be 'disciplined' and treated as spoilt or unreasonable behaviour, ignored. That reaction is simply spiteful and bullying. If crying is about distress in an adult, why would it not be about fear, pain or distress in a baby!?

Many years ago, Leonely Planet wrote in its China travel guide book about all the small children to be seen carried by men and women alike - and the fact that they never seemed to cry. Their children are treasured and kept happy in early years - or they were. As China now greeds-up to western materialistic levels this may have changed - or not.

A Chinese friend said back then "Chinese people believe if you treat your kids well when they are young, they will treat you well when you are old". Once in school things get much more about discipline there than here.
Seriously? ....remind me again what country leaves it's babies to die? Have you not heard of The Dying Room? I suggest you Goggle it then tell me how well Chinese children are treated!!!!

Moving on...R.I.P. little angel.
[quote][p][bold]Valerie Paynter[/bold] wrote: When a baby us crying, pick it up; feed, clean or just hold it. In the west there is the sick notion that crying must be 'disciplined' and treated as spoilt or unreasonable behaviour, ignored. That reaction is simply spiteful and bullying. If crying is about distress in an adult, why would it not be about fear, pain or distress in a baby!? Many years ago, Leonely Planet wrote in its China travel guide book about all the small children to be seen carried by men and women alike - and the fact that they never seemed to cry. Their children are treasured and kept happy in early years - or they were. As China now greeds-up to western materialistic levels this may have changed - or not. A Chinese friend said back then "Chinese people believe if you treat your kids well when they are young, they will treat you well when you are old". Once in school things get much more about discipline there than here.[/p][/quote]Seriously? ....remind me again what country leaves it's babies to die? Have you not heard of The Dying Room? I suggest you Goggle it then tell me how well Chinese children are treated!!!! Moving on...R.I.P. little angel. lindaf
  • Score: 11

12:08pm Tue 8 Jul 14

Valerie Paynter says...

lindaf wrote:
Valerie Paynter wrote:
When a baby us crying, pick it up; feed, clean or just hold it. In the west there is the sick notion that crying must be 'disciplined' and treated as spoilt or unreasonable behaviour, ignored. That reaction is simply spiteful and bullying. If crying is about distress in an adult, why would it not be about fear, pain or distress in a baby!?

Many years ago, Leonely Planet wrote in its China travel guide book about all the small children to be seen carried by men and women alike - and the fact that they never seemed to cry. Their children are treasured and kept happy in early years - or they were. As China now greeds-up to western materialistic levels this may have changed - or not.

A Chinese friend said back then "Chinese people believe if you treat your kids well when they are young, they will treat you well when you are old". Once in school things get much more about discipline there than here.
Seriously? ....remind me again what country leaves it's babies to die? Have you not heard of The Dying Room? I suggest you Goggle it then tell me how well Chinese children are treated!!!!

Moving on...R.I.P. little angel.
You refer to a practice that is indeed horrific. But you should be careful of using that example to then get abusive about the Chinese per se who do not treat their children's lives as any more expendable than is the case in this country. The Maoist government certainly tried to control the population by killing and preventing births but China did not get so heavily populated in the first place by killing its children in large numbers. Here kids a simply aborted. Casually. In large numbers. And if the sex is not the one they want.....and it is no better than killing at birth. The only difference between an unborn child and one born is that you can see them. Perhaps now rich China will move from dying rooms and forest floors to abortion clinics. To behave as women in the west do by killing them before they emerge.

You have grabbed an issue and run with it in a show off manner, sarcastically brandishing it aloft as representative of a whole culture.

In this country babies are abandoned, aborted by the million and murdered in fits of temper. Are we any better? How would you judge that? Abortion clinics can also be considered as dying rooms if you want to get comparative. It is legal to kill a 24 week old unborn child in this country. And incubators can and do keep miscarried but wanted 24 week old babies alive and viable to survive too.

Perhaps you can make a numbers game of your thinking and show stats to prove that the Chinese are somehow less caring than we are. Look around you in the streets first at all the ignored crying babies being wheeled around the shops, their little hearts really obviously breaking for need of being PICKED UP and given the security of safe physical connection to take away their fear and panic. Check out the boiled baby syndrome as women force their babies to endure horriic sunburn. I see them clustered with friends, nattering away, facing away from the sun whilst making their unprotected and uncomfortable babies and toddlers sit in their pushchairs FACING the sun.
[quote][p][bold]lindaf[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Valerie Paynter[/bold] wrote: When a baby us crying, pick it up; feed, clean or just hold it. In the west there is the sick notion that crying must be 'disciplined' and treated as spoilt or unreasonable behaviour, ignored. That reaction is simply spiteful and bullying. If crying is about distress in an adult, why would it not be about fear, pain or distress in a baby!? Many years ago, Leonely Planet wrote in its China travel guide book about all the small children to be seen carried by men and women alike - and the fact that they never seemed to cry. Their children are treasured and kept happy in early years - or they were. As China now greeds-up to western materialistic levels this may have changed - or not. A Chinese friend said back then "Chinese people believe if you treat your kids well when they are young, they will treat you well when you are old". Once in school things get much more about discipline there than here.[/p][/quote]Seriously? ....remind me again what country leaves it's babies to die? Have you not heard of The Dying Room? I suggest you Goggle it then tell me how well Chinese children are treated!!!! Moving on...R.I.P. little angel.[/p][/quote]You refer to a practice that is indeed horrific. But you should be careful of using that example to then get abusive about the Chinese per se who do not treat their children's lives as any more expendable than is the case in this country. The Maoist government certainly tried to control the population by killing and preventing births but China did not get so heavily populated in the first place by killing its children in large numbers. Here kids a simply aborted. Casually. In large numbers. And if the sex is not the one they want.....and it is no better than killing at birth. The only difference between an unborn child and one born is that you can see them. Perhaps now rich China will move from dying rooms and forest floors to abortion clinics. To behave as women in the west do by killing them before they emerge. You have grabbed an issue and run with it in a show off manner, sarcastically brandishing it aloft as representative of a whole culture. In this country babies are abandoned, aborted by the million and murdered in fits of temper. Are we any better? How would you judge that? Abortion clinics can also be considered as dying rooms if you want to get comparative. It is legal to kill a 24 week old unborn child in this country. And incubators can and do keep miscarried but wanted 24 week old babies alive and viable to survive too. Perhaps you can make a numbers game of your thinking and show stats to prove that the Chinese are somehow less caring than we are. Look around you in the streets first at all the ignored crying babies being wheeled around the shops, their little hearts really obviously breaking for need of being PICKED UP and given the security of safe physical connection to take away their fear and panic. Check out the boiled baby syndrome as women force their babies to endure horriic sunburn. I see them clustered with friends, nattering away, facing away from the sun whilst making their unprotected and uncomfortable babies and toddlers sit in their pushchairs FACING the sun. Valerie Paynter
  • Score: 0

12:49pm Tue 8 Jul 14

Quiterie says...

Valerie Paynter wrote:
lindaf wrote:
Valerie Paynter wrote:
When a baby us crying, pick it up; feed, clean or just hold it. In the west there is the sick notion that crying must be 'disciplined' and treated as spoilt or unreasonable behaviour, ignored. That reaction is simply spiteful and bullying. If crying is about distress in an adult, why would it not be about fear, pain or distress in a baby!?

Many years ago, Leonely Planet wrote in its China travel guide book about all the small children to be seen carried by men and women alike - and the fact that they never seemed to cry. Their children are treasured and kept happy in early years - or they were. As China now greeds-up to western materialistic levels this may have changed - or not.

A Chinese friend said back then "Chinese people believe if you treat your kids well when they are young, they will treat you well when you are old". Once in school things get much more about discipline there than here.
Seriously? ....remind me again what country leaves it's babies to die? Have you not heard of The Dying Room? I suggest you Goggle it then tell me how well Chinese children are treated!!!!

Moving on...R.I.P. little angel.
You refer to a practice that is indeed horrific. But you should be careful of using that example to then get abusive about the Chinese per se who do not treat their children's lives as any more expendable than is the case in this country. The Maoist government certainly tried to control the population by killing and preventing births but China did not get so heavily populated in the first place by killing its children in large numbers. Here kids a simply aborted. Casually. In large numbers. And if the sex is not the one they want.....and it is no better than killing at birth. The only difference between an unborn child and one born is that you can see them. Perhaps now rich China will move from dying rooms and forest floors to abortion clinics. To behave as women in the west do by killing them before they emerge.

You have grabbed an issue and run with it in a show off manner, sarcastically brandishing it aloft as representative of a whole culture.

In this country babies are abandoned, aborted by the million and murdered in fits of temper. Are we any better? How would you judge that? Abortion clinics can also be considered as dying rooms if you want to get comparative. It is legal to kill a 24 week old unborn child in this country. And incubators can and do keep miscarried but wanted 24 week old babies alive and viable to survive too.

Perhaps you can make a numbers game of your thinking and show stats to prove that the Chinese are somehow less caring than we are. Look around you in the streets first at all the ignored crying babies being wheeled around the shops, their little hearts really obviously breaking for need of being PICKED UP and given the security of safe physical connection to take away their fear and panic. Check out the boiled baby syndrome as women force their babies to endure horriic sunburn. I see them clustered with friends, nattering away, facing away from the sun whilst making their unprotected and uncomfortable babies and toddlers sit in their pushchairs FACING the sun.
Blimey..... I'm all for going off on tangents..... but Sweet Mother of Jesus!?!?!!!
[quote][p][bold]Valerie Paynter[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]lindaf[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Valerie Paynter[/bold] wrote: When a baby us crying, pick it up; feed, clean or just hold it. In the west there is the sick notion that crying must be 'disciplined' and treated as spoilt or unreasonable behaviour, ignored. That reaction is simply spiteful and bullying. If crying is about distress in an adult, why would it not be about fear, pain or distress in a baby!? Many years ago, Leonely Planet wrote in its China travel guide book about all the small children to be seen carried by men and women alike - and the fact that they never seemed to cry. Their children are treasured and kept happy in early years - or they were. As China now greeds-up to western materialistic levels this may have changed - or not. A Chinese friend said back then "Chinese people believe if you treat your kids well when they are young, they will treat you well when you are old". Once in school things get much more about discipline there than here.[/p][/quote]Seriously? ....remind me again what country leaves it's babies to die? Have you not heard of The Dying Room? I suggest you Goggle it then tell me how well Chinese children are treated!!!! Moving on...R.I.P. little angel.[/p][/quote]You refer to a practice that is indeed horrific. But you should be careful of using that example to then get abusive about the Chinese per se who do not treat their children's lives as any more expendable than is the case in this country. The Maoist government certainly tried to control the population by killing and preventing births but China did not get so heavily populated in the first place by killing its children in large numbers. Here kids a simply aborted. Casually. In large numbers. And if the sex is not the one they want.....and it is no better than killing at birth. The only difference between an unborn child and one born is that you can see them. Perhaps now rich China will move from dying rooms and forest floors to abortion clinics. To behave as women in the west do by killing them before they emerge. You have grabbed an issue and run with it in a show off manner, sarcastically brandishing it aloft as representative of a whole culture. In this country babies are abandoned, aborted by the million and murdered in fits of temper. Are we any better? How would you judge that? Abortion clinics can also be considered as dying rooms if you want to get comparative. It is legal to kill a 24 week old unborn child in this country. And incubators can and do keep miscarried but wanted 24 week old babies alive and viable to survive too. Perhaps you can make a numbers game of your thinking and show stats to prove that the Chinese are somehow less caring than we are. Look around you in the streets first at all the ignored crying babies being wheeled around the shops, their little hearts really obviously breaking for need of being PICKED UP and given the security of safe physical connection to take away their fear and panic. Check out the boiled baby syndrome as women force their babies to endure horriic sunburn. I see them clustered with friends, nattering away, facing away from the sun whilst making their unprotected and uncomfortable babies and toddlers sit in their pushchairs FACING the sun.[/p][/quote]Blimey..... I'm all for going off on tangents..... but Sweet Mother of Jesus!?!?!!! Quiterie
  • Score: 5

1:50pm Tue 8 Jul 14

KarenT says...

Quiterie wrote:
Valerie Paynter wrote:
lindaf wrote:
Valerie Paynter wrote:
When a baby us crying, pick it up; feed, clean or just hold it. In the west there is the sick notion that crying must be 'disciplined' and treated as spoilt or unreasonable behaviour, ignored. That reaction is simply spiteful and bullying. If crying is about distress in an adult, why would it not be about fear, pain or distress in a baby!?

Many years ago, Leonely Planet wrote in its China travel guide book about all the small children to be seen carried by men and women alike - and the fact that they never seemed to cry. Their children are treasured and kept happy in early years - or they were. As China now greeds-up to western materialistic levels this may have changed - or not.

A Chinese friend said back then "Chinese people believe if you treat your kids well when they are young, they will treat you well when you are old". Once in school things get much more about discipline there than here.
Seriously? ....remind me again what country leaves it's babies to die? Have you not heard of The Dying Room? I suggest you Goggle it then tell me how well Chinese children are treated!!!!

Moving on...R.I.P. little angel.
You refer to a practice that is indeed horrific. But you should be careful of using that example to then get abusive about the Chinese per se who do not treat their children's lives as any more expendable than is the case in this country. The Maoist government certainly tried to control the population by killing and preventing births but China did not get so heavily populated in the first place by killing its children in large numbers. Here kids a simply aborted. Casually. In large numbers. And if the sex is not the one they want.....and it is no better than killing at birth. The only difference between an unborn child and one born is that you can see them. Perhaps now rich China will move from dying rooms and forest floors to abortion clinics. To behave as women in the west do by killing them before they emerge.

You have grabbed an issue and run with it in a show off manner, sarcastically brandishing it aloft as representative of a whole culture.

In this country babies are abandoned, aborted by the million and murdered in fits of temper. Are we any better? How would you judge that? Abortion clinics can also be considered as dying rooms if you want to get comparative. It is legal to kill a 24 week old unborn child in this country. And incubators can and do keep miscarried but wanted 24 week old babies alive and viable to survive too.

Perhaps you can make a numbers game of your thinking and show stats to prove that the Chinese are somehow less caring than we are. Look around you in the streets first at all the ignored crying babies being wheeled around the shops, their little hearts really obviously breaking for need of being PICKED UP and given the security of safe physical connection to take away their fear and panic. Check out the boiled baby syndrome as women force their babies to endure horriic sunburn. I see them clustered with friends, nattering away, facing away from the sun whilst making their unprotected and uncomfortable babies and toddlers sit in their pushchairs FACING the sun.
Blimey..... I'm all for going off on tangents..... but Sweet Mother of Jesus!?!?!!!
Apparently China uses 45 billion chopsticks per year.
[quote][p][bold]Quiterie[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Valerie Paynter[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]lindaf[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Valerie Paynter[/bold] wrote: When a baby us crying, pick it up; feed, clean or just hold it. In the west there is the sick notion that crying must be 'disciplined' and treated as spoilt or unreasonable behaviour, ignored. That reaction is simply spiteful and bullying. If crying is about distress in an adult, why would it not be about fear, pain or distress in a baby!? Many years ago, Leonely Planet wrote in its China travel guide book about all the small children to be seen carried by men and women alike - and the fact that they never seemed to cry. Their children are treasured and kept happy in early years - or they were. As China now greeds-up to western materialistic levels this may have changed - or not. A Chinese friend said back then "Chinese people believe if you treat your kids well when they are young, they will treat you well when you are old". Once in school things get much more about discipline there than here.[/p][/quote]Seriously? ....remind me again what country leaves it's babies to die? Have you not heard of The Dying Room? I suggest you Goggle it then tell me how well Chinese children are treated!!!! Moving on...R.I.P. little angel.[/p][/quote]You refer to a practice that is indeed horrific. But you should be careful of using that example to then get abusive about the Chinese per se who do not treat their children's lives as any more expendable than is the case in this country. The Maoist government certainly tried to control the population by killing and preventing births but China did not get so heavily populated in the first place by killing its children in large numbers. Here kids a simply aborted. Casually. In large numbers. And if the sex is not the one they want.....and it is no better than killing at birth. The only difference between an unborn child and one born is that you can see them. Perhaps now rich China will move from dying rooms and forest floors to abortion clinics. To behave as women in the west do by killing them before they emerge. You have grabbed an issue and run with it in a show off manner, sarcastically brandishing it aloft as representative of a whole culture. In this country babies are abandoned, aborted by the million and murdered in fits of temper. Are we any better? How would you judge that? Abortion clinics can also be considered as dying rooms if you want to get comparative. It is legal to kill a 24 week old unborn child in this country. And incubators can and do keep miscarried but wanted 24 week old babies alive and viable to survive too. Perhaps you can make a numbers game of your thinking and show stats to prove that the Chinese are somehow less caring than we are. Look around you in the streets first at all the ignored crying babies being wheeled around the shops, their little hearts really obviously breaking for need of being PICKED UP and given the security of safe physical connection to take away their fear and panic. Check out the boiled baby syndrome as women force their babies to endure horriic sunburn. I see them clustered with friends, nattering away, facing away from the sun whilst making their unprotected and uncomfortable babies and toddlers sit in their pushchairs FACING the sun.[/p][/quote]Blimey..... I'm all for going off on tangents..... but Sweet Mother of Jesus!?!?!!![/p][/quote]Apparently China uses 45 billion chopsticks per year. KarenT
  • Score: 2

3:44pm Tue 8 Jul 14

Quiterie says...

KarenT wrote:
Quiterie wrote:
Valerie Paynter wrote:
lindaf wrote:
Valerie Paynter wrote:
When a baby us crying, pick it up; feed, clean or just hold it. In the west there is the sick notion that crying must be 'disciplined' and treated as spoilt or unreasonable behaviour, ignored. That reaction is simply spiteful and bullying. If crying is about distress in an adult, why would it not be about fear, pain or distress in a baby!?

Many years ago, Leonely Planet wrote in its China travel guide book about all the small children to be seen carried by men and women alike - and the fact that they never seemed to cry. Their children are treasured and kept happy in early years - or they were. As China now greeds-up to western materialistic levels this may have changed - or not.

A Chinese friend said back then "Chinese people believe if you treat your kids well when they are young, they will treat you well when you are old". Once in school things get much more about discipline there than here.
Seriously? ....remind me again what country leaves it's babies to die? Have you not heard of The Dying Room? I suggest you Goggle it then tell me how well Chinese children are treated!!!!

Moving on...R.I.P. little angel.
You refer to a practice that is indeed horrific. But you should be careful of using that example to then get abusive about the Chinese per se who do not treat their children's lives as any more expendable than is the case in this country. The Maoist government certainly tried to control the population by killing and preventing births but China did not get so heavily populated in the first place by killing its children in large numbers. Here kids a simply aborted. Casually. In large numbers. And if the sex is not the one they want.....and it is no better than killing at birth. The only difference between an unborn child and one born is that you can see them. Perhaps now rich China will move from dying rooms and forest floors to abortion clinics. To behave as women in the west do by killing them before they emerge.

You have grabbed an issue and run with it in a show off manner, sarcastically brandishing it aloft as representative of a whole culture.

In this country babies are abandoned, aborted by the million and murdered in fits of temper. Are we any better? How would you judge that? Abortion clinics can also be considered as dying rooms if you want to get comparative. It is legal to kill a 24 week old unborn child in this country. And incubators can and do keep miscarried but wanted 24 week old babies alive and viable to survive too.

Perhaps you can make a numbers game of your thinking and show stats to prove that the Chinese are somehow less caring than we are. Look around you in the streets first at all the ignored crying babies being wheeled around the shops, their little hearts really obviously breaking for need of being PICKED UP and given the security of safe physical connection to take away their fear and panic. Check out the boiled baby syndrome as women force their babies to endure horriic sunburn. I see them clustered with friends, nattering away, facing away from the sun whilst making their unprotected and uncomfortable babies and toddlers sit in their pushchairs FACING the sun.
Blimey..... I'm all for going off on tangents..... but Sweet Mother of Jesus!?!?!!!
Apparently China uses 45 billion chopsticks per year.
It was bound to be an even number.......
[quote][p][bold]KarenT[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Quiterie[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Valerie Paynter[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]lindaf[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Valerie Paynter[/bold] wrote: When a baby us crying, pick it up; feed, clean or just hold it. In the west there is the sick notion that crying must be 'disciplined' and treated as spoilt or unreasonable behaviour, ignored. That reaction is simply spiteful and bullying. If crying is about distress in an adult, why would it not be about fear, pain or distress in a baby!? Many years ago, Leonely Planet wrote in its China travel guide book about all the small children to be seen carried by men and women alike - and the fact that they never seemed to cry. Their children are treasured and kept happy in early years - or they were. As China now greeds-up to western materialistic levels this may have changed - or not. A Chinese friend said back then "Chinese people believe if you treat your kids well when they are young, they will treat you well when you are old". Once in school things get much more about discipline there than here.[/p][/quote]Seriously? ....remind me again what country leaves it's babies to die? Have you not heard of The Dying Room? I suggest you Goggle it then tell me how well Chinese children are treated!!!! Moving on...R.I.P. little angel.[/p][/quote]You refer to a practice that is indeed horrific. But you should be careful of using that example to then get abusive about the Chinese per se who do not treat their children's lives as any more expendable than is the case in this country. The Maoist government certainly tried to control the population by killing and preventing births but China did not get so heavily populated in the first place by killing its children in large numbers. Here kids a simply aborted. Casually. In large numbers. And if the sex is not the one they want.....and it is no better than killing at birth. The only difference between an unborn child and one born is that you can see them. Perhaps now rich China will move from dying rooms and forest floors to abortion clinics. To behave as women in the west do by killing them before they emerge. You have grabbed an issue and run with it in a show off manner, sarcastically brandishing it aloft as representative of a whole culture. In this country babies are abandoned, aborted by the million and murdered in fits of temper. Are we any better? How would you judge that? Abortion clinics can also be considered as dying rooms if you want to get comparative. It is legal to kill a 24 week old unborn child in this country. And incubators can and do keep miscarried but wanted 24 week old babies alive and viable to survive too. Perhaps you can make a numbers game of your thinking and show stats to prove that the Chinese are somehow less caring than we are. Look around you in the streets first at all the ignored crying babies being wheeled around the shops, their little hearts really obviously breaking for need of being PICKED UP and given the security of safe physical connection to take away their fear and panic. Check out the boiled baby syndrome as women force their babies to endure horriic sunburn. I see them clustered with friends, nattering away, facing away from the sun whilst making their unprotected and uncomfortable babies and toddlers sit in their pushchairs FACING the sun.[/p][/quote]Blimey..... I'm all for going off on tangents..... but Sweet Mother of Jesus!?!?!!![/p][/quote]Apparently China uses 45 billion chopsticks per year.[/p][/quote]It was bound to be an even number....... Quiterie
  • Score: 0

3:58pm Tue 8 Jul 14

lindaf says...

Valerie Paynter wrote:
lindaf wrote:
Valerie Paynter wrote:
When a baby us crying, pick it up; feed, clean or just hold it. In the west there is the sick notion that crying must be 'disciplined' and treated as spoilt or unreasonable behaviour, ignored. That reaction is simply spiteful and bullying. If crying is about distress in an adult, why would it not be about fear, pain or distress in a baby!?

Many years ago, Leonely Planet wrote in its China travel guide book about all the small children to be seen carried by men and women alike - and the fact that they never seemed to cry. Their children are treasured and kept happy in early years - or they were. As China now greeds-up to western materialistic levels this may have changed - or not.

A Chinese friend said back then "Chinese people believe if you treat your kids well when they are young, they will treat you well when you are old". Once in school things get much more about discipline there than here.
Seriously? ....remind me again what country leaves it's babies to die? Have you not heard of The Dying Room? I suggest you Goggle it then tell me how well Chinese children are treated!!!!

Moving on...R.I.P. little angel.
You refer to a practice that is indeed horrific. But you should be careful of using that example to then get abusive about the Chinese per se who do not treat their children's lives as any more expendable than is the case in this country. The Maoist government certainly tried to control the population by killing and preventing births but China did not get so heavily populated in the first place by killing its children in large numbers. Here kids a simply aborted. Casually. In large numbers. And if the sex is not the one they want.....and it is no better than killing at birth. The only difference between an unborn child and one born is that you can see them. Perhaps now rich China will move from dying rooms and forest floors to abortion clinics. To behave as women in the west do by killing them before they emerge.

You have grabbed an issue and run with it in a show off manner, sarcastically brandishing it aloft as representative of a whole culture.

In this country babies are abandoned, aborted by the million and murdered in fits of temper. Are we any better? How would you judge that? Abortion clinics can also be considered as dying rooms if you want to get comparative. It is legal to kill a 24 week old unborn child in this country. And incubators can and do keep miscarried but wanted 24 week old babies alive and viable to survive too.

Perhaps you can make a numbers game of your thinking and show stats to prove that the Chinese are somehow less caring than we are. Look around you in the streets first at all the ignored crying babies being wheeled around the shops, their little hearts really obviously breaking for need of being PICKED UP and given the security of safe physical connection to take away their fear and panic. Check out the boiled baby syndrome as women force their babies to endure horriic sunburn. I see them clustered with friends, nattering away, facing away from the sun whilst making their unprotected and uncomfortable babies and toddlers sit in their pushchairs FACING the sun.
Oh go boil your head....
[quote][p][bold]Valerie Paynter[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]lindaf[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Valerie Paynter[/bold] wrote: When a baby us crying, pick it up; feed, clean or just hold it. In the west there is the sick notion that crying must be 'disciplined' and treated as spoilt or unreasonable behaviour, ignored. That reaction is simply spiteful and bullying. If crying is about distress in an adult, why would it not be about fear, pain or distress in a baby!? Many years ago, Leonely Planet wrote in its China travel guide book about all the small children to be seen carried by men and women alike - and the fact that they never seemed to cry. Their children are treasured and kept happy in early years - or they were. As China now greeds-up to western materialistic levels this may have changed - or not. A Chinese friend said back then "Chinese people believe if you treat your kids well when they are young, they will treat you well when you are old". Once in school things get much more about discipline there than here.[/p][/quote]Seriously? ....remind me again what country leaves it's babies to die? Have you not heard of The Dying Room? I suggest you Goggle it then tell me how well Chinese children are treated!!!! Moving on...R.I.P. little angel.[/p][/quote]You refer to a practice that is indeed horrific. But you should be careful of using that example to then get abusive about the Chinese per se who do not treat their children's lives as any more expendable than is the case in this country. The Maoist government certainly tried to control the population by killing and preventing births but China did not get so heavily populated in the first place by killing its children in large numbers. Here kids a simply aborted. Casually. In large numbers. And if the sex is not the one they want.....and it is no better than killing at birth. The only difference between an unborn child and one born is that you can see them. Perhaps now rich China will move from dying rooms and forest floors to abortion clinics. To behave as women in the west do by killing them before they emerge. You have grabbed an issue and run with it in a show off manner, sarcastically brandishing it aloft as representative of a whole culture. In this country babies are abandoned, aborted by the million and murdered in fits of temper. Are we any better? How would you judge that? Abortion clinics can also be considered as dying rooms if you want to get comparative. It is legal to kill a 24 week old unborn child in this country. And incubators can and do keep miscarried but wanted 24 week old babies alive and viable to survive too. Perhaps you can make a numbers game of your thinking and show stats to prove that the Chinese are somehow less caring than we are. Look around you in the streets first at all the ignored crying babies being wheeled around the shops, their little hearts really obviously breaking for need of being PICKED UP and given the security of safe physical connection to take away their fear and panic. Check out the boiled baby syndrome as women force their babies to endure horriic sunburn. I see them clustered with friends, nattering away, facing away from the sun whilst making their unprotected and uncomfortable babies and toddlers sit in their pushchairs FACING the sun.[/p][/quote]Oh go boil your head.... lindaf
  • Score: -2

4:36pm Tue 8 Jul 14

KarenT says...

lindaf wrote:
Valerie Paynter wrote:
lindaf wrote:
Valerie Paynter wrote:
When a baby us crying, pick it up; feed, clean or just hold it. In the west there is the sick notion that crying must be 'disciplined' and treated as spoilt or unreasonable behaviour, ignored. That reaction is simply spiteful and bullying. If crying is about distress in an adult, why would it not be about fear, pain or distress in a baby!?

Many years ago, Leonely Planet wrote in its China travel guide book about all the small children to be seen carried by men and women alike - and the fact that they never seemed to cry. Their children are treasured and kept happy in early years - or they were. As China now greeds-up to western materialistic levels this may have changed - or not.

A Chinese friend said back then "Chinese people believe if you treat your kids well when they are young, they will treat you well when you are old". Once in school things get much more about discipline there than here.
Seriously? ....remind me again what country leaves it's babies to die? Have you not heard of The Dying Room? I suggest you Goggle it then tell me how well Chinese children are treated!!!!

Moving on...R.I.P. little angel.
You refer to a practice that is indeed horrific. But you should be careful of using that example to then get abusive about the Chinese per se who do not treat their children's lives as any more expendable than is the case in this country. The Maoist government certainly tried to control the population by killing and preventing births but China did not get so heavily populated in the first place by killing its children in large numbers. Here kids a simply aborted. Casually. In large numbers. And if the sex is not the one they want.....and it is no better than killing at birth. The only difference between an unborn child and one born is that you can see them. Perhaps now rich China will move from dying rooms and forest floors to abortion clinics. To behave as women in the west do by killing them before they emerge.

You have grabbed an issue and run with it in a show off manner, sarcastically brandishing it aloft as representative of a whole culture.

In this country babies are abandoned, aborted by the million and murdered in fits of temper. Are we any better? How would you judge that? Abortion clinics can also be considered as dying rooms if you want to get comparative. It is legal to kill a 24 week old unborn child in this country. And incubators can and do keep miscarried but wanted 24 week old babies alive and viable to survive too.

Perhaps you can make a numbers game of your thinking and show stats to prove that the Chinese are somehow less caring than we are. Look around you in the streets first at all the ignored crying babies being wheeled around the shops, their little hearts really obviously breaking for need of being PICKED UP and given the security of safe physical connection to take away their fear and panic. Check out the boiled baby syndrome as women force their babies to endure horriic sunburn. I see them clustered with friends, nattering away, facing away from the sun whilst making their unprotected and uncomfortable babies and toddlers sit in their pushchairs FACING the sun.
Oh go boil your head....
Boiled head soup is a delicacy in China. Very hard to eat with chopsticks though.
[quote][p][bold]lindaf[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Valerie Paynter[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]lindaf[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Valerie Paynter[/bold] wrote: When a baby us crying, pick it up; feed, clean or just hold it. In the west there is the sick notion that crying must be 'disciplined' and treated as spoilt or unreasonable behaviour, ignored. That reaction is simply spiteful and bullying. If crying is about distress in an adult, why would it not be about fear, pain or distress in a baby!? Many years ago, Leonely Planet wrote in its China travel guide book about all the small children to be seen carried by men and women alike - and the fact that they never seemed to cry. Their children are treasured and kept happy in early years - or they were. As China now greeds-up to western materialistic levels this may have changed - or not. A Chinese friend said back then "Chinese people believe if you treat your kids well when they are young, they will treat you well when you are old". Once in school things get much more about discipline there than here.[/p][/quote]Seriously? ....remind me again what country leaves it's babies to die? Have you not heard of The Dying Room? I suggest you Goggle it then tell me how well Chinese children are treated!!!! Moving on...R.I.P. little angel.[/p][/quote]You refer to a practice that is indeed horrific. But you should be careful of using that example to then get abusive about the Chinese per se who do not treat their children's lives as any more expendable than is the case in this country. The Maoist government certainly tried to control the population by killing and preventing births but China did not get so heavily populated in the first place by killing its children in large numbers. Here kids a simply aborted. Casually. In large numbers. And if the sex is not the one they want.....and it is no better than killing at birth. The only difference between an unborn child and one born is that you can see them. Perhaps now rich China will move from dying rooms and forest floors to abortion clinics. To behave as women in the west do by killing them before they emerge. You have grabbed an issue and run with it in a show off manner, sarcastically brandishing it aloft as representative of a whole culture. In this country babies are abandoned, aborted by the million and murdered in fits of temper. Are we any better? How would you judge that? Abortion clinics can also be considered as dying rooms if you want to get comparative. It is legal to kill a 24 week old unborn child in this country. And incubators can and do keep miscarried but wanted 24 week old babies alive and viable to survive too. Perhaps you can make a numbers game of your thinking and show stats to prove that the Chinese are somehow less caring than we are. Look around you in the streets first at all the ignored crying babies being wheeled around the shops, their little hearts really obviously breaking for need of being PICKED UP and given the security of safe physical connection to take away their fear and panic. Check out the boiled baby syndrome as women force their babies to endure horriic sunburn. I see them clustered with friends, nattering away, facing away from the sun whilst making their unprotected and uncomfortable babies and toddlers sit in their pushchairs FACING the sun.[/p][/quote]Oh go boil your head....[/p][/quote]Boiled head soup is a delicacy in China. Very hard to eat with chopsticks though. KarenT
  • Score: 0

5:14pm Tue 8 Jul 14

KarenT says...

By the way, back to the subject at hand, my sympathies to family for this horrendous loss. I have to also say that about a year ago I posted on this site castigating Mark Sandland for what he had (allegedly) done at the time. I was besieged with messages from family members and friends insisting that I was making unfair judgments about 'an innocent man'. It would seem that it hasn't quite turned out that way...
By the way, back to the subject at hand, my sympathies to family for this horrendous loss. I have to also say that about a year ago I posted on this site castigating Mark Sandland for what he had (allegedly) done at the time. I was besieged with messages from family members and friends insisting that I was making unfair judgments about 'an innocent man'. It would seem that it hasn't quite turned out that way... KarenT
  • Score: 2

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