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Do diners have a right to quiet?

GIMME A BOTTLE: Wine or milk would do... GIMME A BOTTLE: Wine or milk would do...

Crying babies cause us all anguish, whether they belong to us or not. In a waiting room, a shop, an aeroplane – the appearance of a red-faced little squealer has us all wincing and grimacing. But in a quiet restaurant it can just about tip us over the edge, surely this is the one place you can be free from the wailing of your offspring or anyone else’s? Nothing causes more debate amongst the socialising classes than the presence of children and babies in traditional ‘adults only’ environments such as pubs and restaurants.

A man was jailed this week for smashing a wine bottle over the head of a fellow diner at a London Indian restaurant for suggesting that he took his crying 7-month-old baby home to bed! Well if I had been in that restaurant I too would have been in danger of a bottle attack because I’d also have suggested that over half an hour of wailing was more than enough for anyone, little one included.

Now, I also have a small child and am well aware of the problems facing parents in hostile environments not set up for kids - no room for pushchairs, the unfriendly glances from childless couples and lets not get started on the breast-feeding in public debate… But I have always been well aware of my responsibilities - to myself, my child and the public. I’ve both complained about a noisy child and taken my own noisy child outside. I believe only subject others to what you would feel acceptable if you were in their position. And there is certainly no need to be aggressive to anyone who complains about the cries that you yourself might find so endearing and healthy.

So many parents try to carry on their lives as normal after labour day, carrying on with the drinking, dining out and socialising they did before little Johnny or Ella came on the scene. I used to love frequenting cocktail bars, hotel bars, café bars, just bars in general really, before I had my son and I still do today when I get the chance, but I would not dream of taking him with me. I’m not sure he would get a lot of it and I’m damn sure my fellow drinkers wouldn’t either? Of course new parents don’t want to feel as if their lives are over and they can’t do things they previously enjoyed or be seen out in public, but the fact remains their lives have changed, therefore changes need to be made (even if its just investing in a good babysitter).

If we want a meal or a drink out with our son, (and I do believe it is important to get youngsters eating out early) my husband and I have a huge rota of all the local family-friendly pubs and restaurants in the area, there are loads of them and no one minds a bit of screaming or running around. If they did there would be little cause for complaint, unless of course the children were being badly behaved (which is a whole different ball game all together). There is however, cause for complaint if a quiet evening meal out with your loved one - which you too are paying for and have a right to enjoy - is ruined by a screaming baby who’d much rather be at home anyway. Just watch out who you complain to, maybe approach the manager as opposed to the angry looking diner with a wine bottle!

My favourite local kid friendly places to eat and drink (do you have any others to add?):

1. The Brunswick in Hove – an adult music venue by night, this huge pub and garden is frequented by kids and families during the day

2. Sam’s of Seven Dials – this gorgeous restaurant provides a SUPERVISED playroom on Sunday mornings so you can enjoy brunch and the papers in peace. Amazing!

3. The Hove Kitchen – a huge, sprawling space that provides toys, games, a fab toddler menu, cakes and baby mush!

4. AlFresco – they love children in here, love them, despite the grown up dining appearance little ones are treated like proper guests

5. Wagamama – crayons coupled with noodles and those flab clip on seats will keep them happy

6. Carats Café – ace kids menu, safe seafront location and plenty of dogs, surfers and cyclists bustling around

7. The Ginger Fox – massive garden and play area, sweets and ice-cream aplenty!

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Comments(16)

Clueless Constable says...
9:16am Thu 30 Jun 11

You want the Holiday from Hell or the Nightmare meal out, go when Chipchase is out with her feral brood. You should read her unhinged blogs on the same subjects, being asked to leave restaurants, kids standing on airline seats, splashing sunbathers... While she necks copious quantities of wine and thinks everyone complains too much.... Nice adverts BTW should get you a freebie or two xx way to go.

ReluctantHousewife says...
10:36am Thu 30 Jun 11

Oh Clueless Constable - I am sorry. Is there the possiblity that someone might get something for free that you will not? I know how galling it must be for you, all you have to do with yourself is sit around on this website trolling others and trying to find ways to annoy everyone when the rest of us are out getting FREE THINGS!

Honestly, it had't occurred to me but now you have mentioned it I am going to print this off and take it to all of the outlets I mentioned and ask if that qualifies me for a free cup of tea, or maybe even a sandwich! Amazing, it might work - gosh I'd be so happy, I really need a free cup of tea.

Heaven forbid that the nature of my post led me to genuinely want to share some information with readers. No! I did it because I want something for FREE!!!!! I will let you know how I get on.

Maybe if you write a post you too can get something for free, maybe a chip for your other shoulder? - give it a go -apparently you believe that thats how things like this work...

Clueless Constable says...
7:10am Fri 1 Jul 11

Methinks thou doth protest too much, my lady.....

anubis says...
11:04pm Fri 1 Jul 11

As usual, a first class and informative post, Alice. Like you, we have always enjoyed the odd ‘meal out’ – in our case, almost always in pubs (about the only time wife and I had a beer with the meal!)

For many years, one of the regular highlights of our lives was a regular visit to "Rose Cottage" at nearby Alciston. Always a friendly, homely welcome, always good 'Harvey' beer and always food that gave the impression of basically 'home cooked', tasty and enjoyable ... especially if we managed to get there early enough to grab a table near the open fire; especially if it was cold and wet outside, or thick snow on the ground. The dog was always welcome in the bar (or stayed in the car, if we used the restaurant). After the lunch, to wander with the kids through the (largely thatched) village to the churchyard, with the interesting graves, the horses in the surrounding fields and the splendid views of Downs and surrounds.

Then came that fateful Wednesday when the dream disappeared, forever. We'd not been there for a while, but with a daughter visiting, along with son-in-law and the THEIR three kids, aged 6 - 10 years, we rolled into the pub, making our way to the restaurant (with the kids, more appropriate) . Son-in-law ordered a round of drinks at the bar and, as they were poured, asked for a menu ... enquiring if there were 'cheaper' offerings, price wise, for the children. "Oh, do you have children?", asked the bar woman (forgetting she'd just seen them walk into the restaurant, where there were three other people and probably thirty unoccupied seats), "because we don't serve children here". We mentioned our MANY visits over the years, but she insisted "No children. There's a notice to this effect on the door!" We were all quite incredulous. Was it a joke? No, it was deadly serious.

We left our UNPAID round on the bar and left -- pausing to read the small type-written note pinned to the front door, announcing that dogs were permitted if on a lead, but "no children younger than ten".

In case you are wondering (as I would if I read this posting), the kids did not look disreputable ... son-in-law is Head of a large Catholic school in London; I am not writing as an old, wide eyed grandad when I say the kids in question could not be faulted behaviour-wise. It was a truly stunning experience – maybe this was a new development in the 'gentrification' of the Sussex countryside -- which I had just not noticed happening?

In the end, however, that day ended rather better than we had anticipated at Rose Cottage. (We’ve never returned!) Back into the car, we drove on to Upper Dicker; there kids were made REALLY welcome and we all ate rather well (and probably for less outlay than we'd have found at Rose Cottage -- but with commensurate quality food! The pub -- "The Plough" -- if you haven't been there, give it a go ... the "Spitfire" beer being highly recommended!!!

Davrow says...
8:13am Sat 2 Jul 11

I agree with anubis on the comments about his visit to "Rose Cottage".
We found that Public Houses nearby seemed to welcome our Juniors and the prices were well below that of "Rose Cottage" exept of course the view was sometimes missing.

Helena Hancart says...
7:21am Mon 4 Jul 11

Look, it is selfish in the extreme to impose children on customers of establishments who do not want screamingvsnot gobblers ruining their evenings whilst their parents quaff wine with any social care or parental control. If you wish to lookninto the abyss.. Read Chipchase's ramblings.

anubis says...
8:43am Mon 4 Jul 11

Cannot imagine anyone is disagreeing with your stating of the obvious, Helena. (Next you'll be telling us it is totally unacceptable to expect to be permitted to take a screaming kid into a performance of 'King Lear' at the 'Globe'!)

ReluctantHousewife says...
11:50am Mon 4 Jul 11

Hello all, I haven't heard of 'Rose Cottage' I shall look it up!
Of course the obvious response would be the reason you like it and have frequented it for so long might just be because they don't allow children?

I know you'd want to take your families to favoured places but they were right to stick to their policy. As I keep one myself I know this is where a list of kid friendly places comes in handy! Leaving those treasured child-free places peaceful for others and yourself of course!
.
Helena - I agree parents who sit back drinking wine whilst their little ones run amok should be told to leave! Its not fair - even if it is a 'kid friendly' place. One of the establishments I mention above did exactly that once, much to everyone's relief!
.
Take the kids somewhere they will be welcome I say, and keep them well behaved if you can! ;-)
.
Clueless Constable - we actually have guidelines we have to adhere to, which means not accepting freebies or bribes etc. So if I protest too much it is at your inappropriate and incorrect comment. I know it might be hard to believe but I do actually only write these to share information!

Best, RH.

anubis says...
12:20pm Mon 4 Jul 11

"Hello all, I haven't heard of 'Rose Cottage' I shall look it up!
Of course the obvious response would be the reason you like it and have frequented it for so long might just be because they don't allow children?"

Maybe I should have made the point more clearly, Alice ...... all the earlier years of happy enjoyment WERE UNDER AN EARLIER MANAGEMENT !!!

ReluctantHousewife says...
4:31pm Tue 5 Jul 11

Hmmm interesting - wonder why they changed a successful policy then?
Seems a bit silly to alienate regular customers?

only1rara says...
5:02pm Tue 5 Jul 11

Just read the comment history and all I can say is that Clueless Constable is clearly clueless.
Great post Alice and as a Mother I strongly feel children should be seen and NOT heard especially after 8pm.
Hove Kitchen, Sam's of Sevendials and Cafe Koba have all created a good balance of being child friendly without customers being drowned out by screams or indeed hit on the head with a plastic bottle.

Davrow says...
5:25pm Tue 5 Jul 11

Would anyone like to introduce this policy to Sainsbury"s Newhaven at certain times of the day or week or put bumpers on the front of trollies so that there is less harm done to these "little darlings" racing about between the aisles screaming I want it mummy, and they do deserve to "get-it"

Budgie Smuggler says...
7:18pm Tue 5 Jul 11

REALLY! READ THE PERSON MENTIONED BLOG! SHE DISAGREES WITH EVERY WORD!

Budgie Smuggler says...
7:36am Wed 6 Jul 11

anubis wrote:
Cannot imagine anyone is disagreeing with your stating of the obvious, Helena. (Next you'll be telling us it is totally unacceptable to expect to be permitted to take a screaming kid into a performance of 'King Lear' at the 'Globe'!)
Chipchase does....

neuken nutteloze krant says...
3:07pm Sun 10 Jul 11

Budgie Smuggler wrote:
anubis wrote:
Cannot imagine anyone is disagreeing with your stating of the obvious, Helena. (Next you'll be telling us it is totally unacceptable to expect to be permitted to take a screaming kid into a performance of 'King Lear' at the 'Globe'!)
Chipchase does....
Does she ever! She believes it is her god given right to let her uncouth and ill mannered brood run riot anywhere whilst she drinks!

Bad Lieutenant says...
12:55pm Tue 12 Jul 11

Just translated your name.....

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