Cold weather chaos continues in Sussex (From The Argus)
Get involved: Send your news, views, pictures and video by texting SUPIC to 80360 or email us.
Cold weather chaos continues in Sussex
7:50am Tuesday 22nd December 2009
Furious residents have called for an immediate inquiry into how councils handled arctic conditions that have frozen the county’s paths and roads.
Hundreds in Sussex have suffered broken bones from slips and falls and many more say they are trapped inside by treacherous conditions.
Some people in Brighton and Hove now claim to be running low on essential food items and medicines and have criticised Brighton and Hove City Council bosses for failing to grit ice-covered pavements or clear roads.
Managers at the Royal Sussex County Hospital in Brighton and the Princess Royal Hospital in Haywards Heath yesterday declared a major incident after dealing with 1,000 patients at its accident and emergency departments in a 48- hour period.
Brighton and Sussex University Hospitals NHS Trust bosses said pedestrians suffered broken wrists, ankles, arms, legs and hips.
At least 100 were still waiting for operations on Monday morning.
Some routine operations have been cancelled as hospital staff battle to clear the backlog.
The hospital’s last major incident was the fatal Lewes fireworks factory blaze in December 2006.
The snow and ice has continued to cripple transport services across Brighton and Hove, leaving some residents without a service for four days.
Commuters across Sussex faced chaos, with dozens of trains delayed and cancelled because of the icy conditions.
The annual Burning the Clocks ceremony also fell victim to the weather yesterday as organisers decided “adverse conditions” had made the event too dangerous.
Traders claim they are counting the cost of the cold snap after frozen paths stopped Christmas shoppers on what is traditionally their busiest weekend.
Sharon Thomas, chairwoman of the North Laine Traders Association, said gritters did not come to the area until Saturday evening.
Although gritters were working throughout yesterday, many residents joined businesses in branding the council’s actions too little, too late.
Peter Rose, of Shirley Drive, Hove, said an inquiry was needed. He added: “When all if this is over there should be some sort of independent inquiry into how the council has handled the whole situation and whether any lessons can be learned fromit so it does not happen again.”
Green Party convenor Bill Randall added: “I have been inundated with calls from older and disabled residents unable to get out of their front doors to get to the shops or the doctor’s surgery.”
But Brighton and Hove City Council defended its handling of the situation, saying it had done everything it possibly could.
The city’s cabinet member for the environment, Geoffrey Theobald, said gritters had been out in force.
He said: “We are sorry it has been so difficult for people, especially those in steep roads but we have done everything we possibly could.
“It was not physically possibly to cover every single road and pavement and so we had to make the best use of the resources we had.”
Councillor Theobald said it was difficult to justify using the budget to treble staff numbers and expanding resources in preparation for something that happened so rarely.
He said there were no plans for an inquiry but the council would be looking at how things operated over the weekend as a matter of routine.
John McQuater, president of the Association of Personal Injury Lawyers, said councils had a obligation under the Highways Act 1980 to keep pavements and roads clear from snow and ice as far as reasonably practicable.
He said: “People who slip and fall and injure themselves may be able to sue for breach of statutory duty but they would need to prove that not enough reasonable action had been taken.
Emergency ambulance calls reporting falls almost doubled from Thursday to Sunday, compared with the same period the year before.
More than 2,500 calls were received across the four days this year, compared with about 1,300 in 2008.
Director of operations Sue Harris said: “Some staff offered their own 4x4 vehicles to respond to patients and often walked across snowy and icy terrain to reach those in need of medical attention.”
Helpful links
You can also find useful information in these places:
Our traffic news, including road disruption
The Met Office Severe Weather Warnings
We want your pictures and videos of the snow. Email picture.desk@theargus.co.uk, text them to 80360 using the word SUPIC, or upload them to this Flickr group, Sussex Snow December 2009
Comments(160)
Whitedot
says...
6:54pm Thu 17 Dec 09
Old Dog wrote:Yes, it is. Now go away and be quiet.
It's winter. It snows. The country grinds to a halt. It's not news!
thevoiceofreason
says...
7:07pm Thu 17 Dec 09
Christophe Hawtree
says...
7:42pm Thu 17 Dec 09
Does he know something about the situation which is being kept from the rest of us?
What with the fiasco of the Local History Centre, I shouldn't be surprised if he has decided that this is no "winter wonderland" and ducked for cover.
scthetruth
says...
9:17pm Thu 17 Dec 09
Not surprising such a once respected organisation has been caught fiddling global temperature data to support the man made global warming fraternity. Just another British institution hijacked by the loony Labour government to peddle its propaganda.
mintyboy
says...
10:11pm Thu 17 Dec 09
lets have fun fun fun!!!
hove
says...
1:07am Fri 18 Dec 09
Stu
says...
2:07am Fri 18 Dec 09
TheInsider
says...
6:18am Fri 18 Dec 09
Almost a white Christmas.
TheInsider
says...
6:18am Fri 18 Dec 09
Almost a white Christmas.
tpebop...
says...
6:38am Fri 18 Dec 09
Stu wrote:Emmm, such a shock, to have a bit of snow and a little cool, it makes the headlines in the UK.
Well that was interesting. Went to the pub. No snow one minute, then blizzard started! By the time we had walked 200yards to the car, it was so deep the car was stuck! Just taken us 2 hrs to drive home to Hove. Had to get the spade out to finish the job off. So much for gritters... didnt see one and no apparent evidence of any grit on the roads.
that's why we have Mink coats here, at -25s + you need them.
Sorry that I may have said something that some animal rights nutters may not like, but sit them in -45-50c and I they will want, and ask for a nice warm fur coat.
workingmama
says...
6:42am Fri 18 Dec 09
uslot
says...
6:57am Fri 18 Dec 09
the snow is great,the kids love it its just a shame its a week early it would have been lovely to wake up on christmas morning to the sights we have today(theres still hope i suppose)
tpebop...
says...
6:58am Fri 18 Dec 09
Am I allowd to say the above Argus ?
without you removing my post
Txa
says...
7:07am Fri 18 Dec 09
Tye
says...
7:37am Fri 18 Dec 09
as much truth in that release as their VERY expensive to the tax payer "freepaper"!
kayotic
says...
7:41am Fri 18 Dec 09
Could you get in touch with the bus people and ask them what the situation really is
Tye
says...
7:43am Fri 18 Dec 09
Whitedot wrote:surely its a "free advert alert " for Jack Frost :)
Old Dog wrote: It's winter. It snows. The country grinds to a halt. It's not news!Yes, it is. Now go away and be quiet.
On a serious note - can I ask shopkeepers/ rail and bus station managers to put salt down if conditions are bad - Its rubbishy lies that you can be sued IF people then slip and fall over -
ArthurD
says...
8:10am Fri 18 Dec 09
That would be the single one they have then!
I suppose you could spice it up by saying "all runways at.."
stan bailey
says...
9:14am Fri 18 Dec 09
Nick Brighton
says...
9:52am Fri 18 Dec 09
bibble
says...
9:55am Fri 18 Dec 09
scott2
says...
10:16am Fri 18 Dec 09
Dee Zelastra
says...
10:27am Fri 18 Dec 09
scott2 wrote:What do you expect scottybottie??
Your top video doesn't work, it just seems to be ads
Conor
says...
10:31am Fri 18 Dec 09
Strange place to have a snowball fight.
wis
says...
10:33am Fri 18 Dec 09
Brighton & Hove - Population 250,000
Rest of Sussex - 750,000
Shorehamborn
says...
10:41am Fri 18 Dec 09
Enjoy the snow people!
stan bailey
says...
10:54am Fri 18 Dec 09
workingmama wrote:Have a good day, hope all goes well
Its my wedding day today, we are up already, planning to walk in to Brighton Town Hall from Wilson Avenue if necessary if our taxi cant reach us and buses are still out. Most of our guests probably wont make it in, but never mind I guess a wedding with snow is quite romantic.
TheInsider
says...
11:00am Fri 18 Dec 09
Come on Argus.
Acheron
says...
11:36am Fri 18 Dec 09
Stunned by some peoples driving last night though, even after the crash. Impatient, pushing through gaps, tailgating. Absolute lunacy given the conditions.
tpebop...
says...
12:15pm Fri 18 Dec 09
wis wrote:What a silly comment, do you really expect the full facts ?? think again
The title is "SUSSEX wakes up to heavy snow" - I can not see any updates from Arun, Adur, Lewes, Rother, Eastbourne, Wealden, Crawley, Horsham, Mid-Sussex, Chichester, Worthing...... infact, it only seems that info is available for Brighton & Hove. Brighton & Hove - Population 250,000 Rest of Sussex - 750,000
moose10
says...
12:19pm Fri 18 Dec 09
the reason the county council have stock piles of grit is because they are not using any.
the weather was forecast way in advance , so i would of thought that gritting would of taken place in the early evening. i saw lots of ambulance and fire service vehicles , but not a single police car.
was it too dangerous for them to patrol the major route in and out of brighton.
lee paul
says...
12:43pm Fri 18 Dec 09
moose10 wrote:This is an outrage!
I drove from brighton to crawley last night, i didnt see any gritting lorries, on the A27 or the A23. these roads was covered in at least 2 inches of snow.may be more. the reason the county council have stock piles of grit is because they are not using any. the weather was forecast way in advance , so i would of thought that gritting would of taken place in the early evening. i saw lots of ambulance and fire service vehicles , but not a single police car. was it too dangerous for them to patrol the major route in and out of brighton.
Gaz the great
says...
12:45pm Fri 18 Dec 09
Acheron
says...
1:19pm Fri 18 Dec 09
lee paul wrote:To be fair to the police, I saw them while they were dealing with the accident on the southbound, and they were giving advice to drivers once we got moving again. Just ashame so many drivers decided to ignore them!
moose10 wrote:This is an outrage!
I drove from brighton to crawley last night, i didnt see any gritting lorries, on the A27 or the A23. these roads was covered in at least 2 inches of snow.may be more. the reason the county council have stock piles of grit is because they are not using any. the weather was forecast way in advance , so i would of thought that gritting would of taken place in the early evening. i saw lots of ambulance and fire service vehicles , but not a single police car. was it too dangerous for them to patrol the major route in and out of brighton.
andygunner
says...
1:23pm Fri 18 Dec 09
Tye
says...
1:27pm Fri 18 Dec 09
West Sussex County Council sent out a press release which the Argus printed without question telling us they were doing a great job and no one will be effected by snow or bad weather.
Lets not bother with the facts or the truth :)
Lil
says...
1:34pm Fri 18 Dec 09
The problems I have seen are related to drivers just not adjusting their driving to the conditions. I have seen people driving far too fast and too close to the car in front. This is the lunacy and this is the real outrage. Not because one person in their car didn't see a gritter, or should one have been sent out just for you? The snow was settling very quickly last night so it laid very quickly again.
Anyway, I'm off to self harm, it's more fun than reading the incessant misery pumped out by the silage tank load than on the newspaper forums of which I find myself adding to in utter disgust but only because of the sheer amount of jack-**** crap that gets spouted.
boristhespider
says...
1:55pm Fri 18 Dec 09
scthetruth
says...
2:24pm Fri 18 Dec 09
Not surprising such a once respected organisation has been caught fiddling global temperature data to support the man made global warming fraternity. Just another British institution hijacked by the loony Labour government to peddle its propaganda.
bibble
says...
2:59pm Fri 18 Dec 09
scthetruth wrote:I'm reminded of a brief conversation between Donald Campbell and Leo Villa while they waited for clear weather during their last water speed record attempt.
One thing for sure, the UK Met Office is having difficulty in forecasting more than a couple of days ahead as usual. They also have the temerity to forecast a hot summer next year! Not surprising such a once respected organisation has been caught fiddling global temperature data to support the man made global warming fraternity. Just another British institution hijacked by the loony Labour government to peddle its propaganda.
Leo Villa: The outlook is fair and calm.
Donald Campbell: Fair and calm, my arse. They're bringing the sheep down from the hills.
What followed was weeks of heavy rain.
Blobbyboy
says...
3:33pm Fri 18 Dec 09
Gaz the great wrote:Cynical question Gaz, do any council members live in yr road? :-)
In defense of the gritters they gritted/salted our road 3 times last night & there is at least 6 inches on it as i write this. Must say though, extra long weekend away from work is always good news!
Mr Pickwick
says...
4:04pm Fri 18 Dec 09
Gentleman Jim
says...
4:43pm Fri 18 Dec 09
I hope The Argus will follow up the reason for this deplorable service.
the_genie
says...
6:17pm Fri 18 Dec 09
As much as I like snow I can't understand why the Council didn't have the gritters out and about on the roads well in advance?
The met office issued a warning on Wedneday afternoon plenty of time to get the main and side roads gritted.
GET A GRIP BRIGHTON COUNCIL!!!
the_genie
says...
6:20pm Fri 18 Dec 09
Mr Pickwick wrote:Mr Pickwick - do you work for Brighton Council! Credit it where it is due indeed...!
It's now 4pm and from what I can see, all the major roads are open and gritted. Praise where it's due - well done all those council gritters and maintenance people. Please keep it up!
Mr Pickwick
says...
7:03pm Fri 18 Dec 09
the_genie wrote:No, I don't work for the council, as many of my other posts would indicate. I'm as critical as the next person when the council gets things wrong. I'm just telling it as I see it and what I see is clear major roads, which means the gritters and other staff have been doing their jobs properly in pretty unpleasant conditions - so credit is, indeed, due.
Mr Pickwick wrote:Mr Pickwick - do you work for Brighton Council! Credit it where it is due indeed...!
It's now 4pm and from what I can see, all the major roads are open and gritted. Praise where it's due - well done all those council gritters and maintenance people. Please keep it up!
davyboy
says...
7:53pm Fri 18 Dec 09
Gentleman Jim wrote:always one not happy, isn't there. customer safety is paramount, and, please note, the buses for the 27 service have to come from either whitehawk garage, or, if they are already on the road, saltdean. there is other traffic on nthe road, and just because YOU think it is safe, others may not. was your trip to the shop really necessary?
I did not expect to see a bus in Westdene before 10.am so waited until after miday before proceeding to Dyke Road, and was advised that the bus company was commencing the 27 service at 12.30 at 1.pm despite the fact that the road had been gritted still no service so walked in to shop and had almost returned to Valley Drive before the first bus passed.
I hope The Argus will follow up the reason for this deplorable service.
Arnie
says...
8:53pm Fri 18 Dec 09
scthetruth wrote:Somebody leave their tin foil hat on the bus today?
One thing for sure, the UK Met Office is having difficulty in forecasting more than a couple of days ahead as usual. They also have the temerity to forecast a hot summer next year!
Not surprising such a once respected organisation has been caught fiddling global temperature data to support the man made global warming fraternity. Just another British institution hijacked by the loony Labour government to peddle its propaganda.
heavenscentrose
says...
1:10am Sat 19 Dec 09
workingmama wrote:Hope your day wasn't spoilt and that everything went well and it was truly a white wedding!
Its my wedding day today, we are up already, planning to walk in to Brighton Town Hall from Wilson Avenue if necessary if our taxi cant reach us and buses are still out. Most of our guests probably wont make it in, but never mind I guess a wedding with snow is quite romantic.
Wishing you every happiness.
Tye
says...
8:17am Sat 19 Dec 09
bibble wrote:Oh bibble luv, thanks for the useful comment!
I'm surprised the neighbours having a snowball fight weren't arrested. Possession of a snowball with intent to throw is considered a serious crime in Sussex.
Seriously in bibble world surely the police are not allowed to arrest anyone ?
You can only arrest people that are guilty, they can only be guilty IF a court says so so where are we - a free for all? with the public scared to walk the streets and the trendy working class hating, billionaire loving lefties who make the laws have armed police and armoured Jags and Range rovers to protect them ......
ooops we already exist in bibbleworld:(
Tye
says...
8:22am Sat 19 Dec 09
moose10 wrote:I did make a comment about west sussex county councils press release the argus printed without comment only a few days ago - disappeared?
I drove from brighton to crawley last night, i didnt see any gritting lorries, on the A27 or the A23. these roads was covered in at least 2 inches of snow.may be more. the reason the county council have stock piles of grit is because they are not using any. the weather was forecast way in advance , so i would of thought that gritting would of taken place in the early evening. i saw lots of ambulance and fire service vehicles , but not a single police car. was it too dangerous for them to patrol the major route in and out of brighton.
Doing a great job (compared with last years fiasco ) they were ready for anything and we wouldn't suffer
jackanory
jacjanory
jackanory :(
twosugars
says...
8:29am Sat 19 Dec 09
Gentleman Jim wrote:service was resumed up the dyke road turning at the roundabout by the A27 at around one pm but there was no chance of serving Westdene because Copse Hill (the steepest hill on the 27 route) was still frozen. other hilly areas in the city (Woodingdean, Hangleton, Moulescoomb etc were also not served for safety reasons ie. buses sliding into cars, buildings, pedestrians...
I did not expect to see a bus in Westdene before 10.am so waited until after miday before proceeding to Dyke Road, and was advised that the bus company was commencing the 27 service at 12.30 at 1.pm despite the fact that the road had been gritted still no service so walked in to shop and had almost returned to Valley Drive before the first bus passed. I hope The Argus will follow up the reason for this deplorable service.
I hope the argus applauds the bus company for this sensible, if unpopular decision
Dave At Home
says...
10:02am Sat 19 Dec 09
Mr Pickwick wrote:I saw ploughs and gritters out, the roads were fine, drivable and passable, it was just the idiots van and truck drivers who stayed in the outside lane that screwed up things because they thought they could climb hills other similar vehicles could not manage, and guess what? they couldn't either so they blocked the road.
It's now 4pm and from what I can see, all the major roads are open and gritted. Praise where it's due - well done all those council gritters and maintenance people. Please keep it up!
B&HCC plough out doing the bus routes at 3am in the outskirts of the City, well done B&HCC workers no one can say you didn't try, just a shame the snow came down so heavy for your single pass.
SW WILD SIDE love it
Voice of Unreason
says...
11:00am Sat 19 Dec 09
Salt doesn't work below -4 degrees, so it's not the council's fault. End of.
Murgatroyd
says...
11:20am Sat 19 Dec 09
T.J.
says...
12:14pm Sat 19 Dec 09
Stingo
says...
1:16pm Sat 19 Dec 09
IANBAREHAM
says...
1:25pm Sat 19 Dec 09
gritterdriver
says...
1:43pm Sat 19 Dec 09
gritterdriver
says...
1:47pm Sat 19 Dec 09
gritterdriver wrote:edit-fifteen ton gritting truck
I drive a gritter for Brighton and Hove Council and I can assure everyone here that all roads/bus routes were gritted solidly for fifteen hours from four p.m Thursday onwards.Ploughs were attached at about midnight.I think in excess of one hundred tons of salt was put on the city's roads.I can understand people thinking we hadn't done roads but when something like 8 inches of snow falls in such a short amount of time we were fighting a losing battle.Some roads(even though they had been gritted 4+ times) could not be re-done due to safety reasons.If you live on a steep hill and you awoke to find a fifteen ton truck had lost traction and demolished your house it would rather put a dampener on Xmas for both of us.We did our very best
snowballs
says...
3:14pm Sat 19 Dec 09
Bet those of you complaining about the Council haven't taken the moral responsibility of bothering to clear the pavements right outside your own houses - you just sit there and whinge about what you imagine hard-working people aren't doing.
Well thanks very much - I've really appreciated that lack of community spirit everytime I have to go out & risk life & limb making my way along icy pavements...
yorkie44
says...
4:10pm Sat 19 Dec 09
Stingo
says...
4:14pm Sat 19 Dec 09
You say you were out gritting at 1600 why does your boses say that you dont go out till 1900. Why did your boses say that the gritters would clear the bus routes in Hollingburry last night and no one came. Why did you wait untill the snow arrived it has been forcasted for days. They forcasted 8 inches so how was Brighton caught out. Why do gritters if they come out grit at 30mph plus slower would put more salt on the roads. Why can i not hear the disel engines or see the orange strobe lights going past my front window i can answer that because no gritters were out gritting this road/bus route i can tell that also by the fact there are no tyre tracks in the snow. Come on boys stop bieng sparing with the truth to protect your boses and also why has the call center 292929 been closed cause everyone knows that the gritters have failed brighton once again just like every other time.
Stingo
says...
4:25pm Sat 19 Dec 09
Stingo
says...
4:31pm Sat 19 Dec 09
snowballs wrote:i take it you are related to a grit driver. i have cleared my paths and pavements but rather than grit and clear roads like we pay them to do via our taxes they would rather go and grit the local cemertry`s thay aint going nowhere in a hurry
What a miserable bunch of moaning ninnies. The gritters have been working throughout the night and have been doing a great job in my eyes. How many hundreds or thousands of miles of roads must there be in Brighton if you added them all up? Bearing in mind that I would guess that the major roads need repeated gritting - more than once every 24 hours. Bet those of you complaining about the Council haven't taken the moral responsibility of bothering to clear the pavements right outside your own houses - you just sit there and whinge about what you imagine hard-working people aren't doing. Well thanks very much - I've really appreciated that lack of community spirit everytime I have to go out & risk life & limb making my way along icy pavements...
snowballs
says...
6:26pm Sat 19 Dec 09
Stingo wrote:No, as it happens I'm not related to a grit driver, can't count any amongst my friends, and to the best to my knowledge have never even spoken to one. But I can see when someone is doing an essential job, and doing it efficiently.
snowballs wrote:i take it you are related to a grit driver. i have cleared my paths and pavements but rather than grit and clear roads like we pay them to do via our taxes they would rather go and grit the local cemertry`s thay aint going nowhere in a hurry
What a miserable bunch of moaning ninnies. The gritters have been working throughout the night and have been doing a great job in my eyes. How many hundreds or thousands of miles of roads must there be in Brighton if you added them all up? Bearing in mind that I would guess that the major roads need repeated gritting - more than once every 24 hours. Bet those of you complaining about the Council haven't taken the moral responsibility of bothering to clear the pavements right outside your own houses - you just sit there and whinge about what you imagine hard-working people aren't doing. Well thanks very much - I've really appreciated that lack of community spirit everytime I have to go out & risk life & limb making my way along icy pavements...
sje
says...
7:06pm Sat 19 Dec 09
Stingo
says...
7:16pm Sat 19 Dec 09
snowballs wrote:as it happens i know a lot of people who work for the council thats why i tell it as it is cause its the truth they have not gritted roads and have no intention of gritting roads
Stingo wrote:No, as it happens I'm not related to a grit driver, can't count any amongst my friends, and to the best to my knowledge have never even spoken to one. But I can see when someone is doing an essential job, and doing it efficiently.snowballs wrote: What a miserable bunch of moaning ninnies. The gritters have been working throughout the night and have been doing a great job in my eyes. How many hundreds or thousands of miles of roads must there be in Brighton if you added them all up? Bearing in mind that I would guess that the major roads need repeated gritting - more than once every 24 hours. Bet those of you complaining about the Council haven't taken the moral responsibility of bothering to clear the pavements right outside your own houses - you just sit there and whinge about what you imagine hard-working people aren't doing. Well thanks very much - I've really appreciated that lack of community spirit everytime I have to go out & risk life & limb making my way along icy pavements...i take it you are related to a grit driver. i have cleared my paths and pavements but rather than grit and clear roads like we pay them to do via our taxes they would rather go and grit the local cemertry`s thay aint going nowhere in a hurry
Stingo
says...
7:20pm Sat 19 Dec 09
sje wrote:i agree with you 100%.
What gritters and snowploughs? I find it hard to believe the council own any as they have been absent for our side of town. 48 hours later and residents have chipped away at the icy road to make it safer in parts, for the few crazy people attempting our hill. With no bus service either, people have been completely isolated. If the Council can't afford gritting, perhaps they should reduce some of the over-inflated salaries of the senior management to pay for this. If you've been prepared to give up any hope of achieving anything planned, then the snow has been wonderful!
they new it was comming and done nothing.
when it got here they done nothing
and they aint gonna do nothing
Uncle_Meat
says...
9:28pm Sat 19 Dec 09
None of the roads in Hanover have been treated, the place is a virtual no go zone...actually, maybe that's a good thing!
Cass
says...
2:29pm Sun 20 Dec 09
Sack the flaming lot at Brighton Council, they have had our money for services, NOT RENDERED, They couldn't organise a fling in a brewery!! They are pathetic.
pr0se
says...
2:34pm Sun 20 Dec 09
I look forward to seeing the list of gritting roads and times on the Council web site; I hope the Argus will ask for this and publish it.
pw08
says...
3:12pm Sun 20 Dec 09
Cass wrote:Indeed.
Just how long are the roads of Brighton and Hove going to remain treacherous?? No buses in outline areas, WHY haven't the roads been treated since Thursday night? Why isn't R French creating merry hell? He usually has a very loud voice when there is a problem for his buses. What the heck is going on????
Sack the flaming lot at Brighton Council, they have had our money for services, NOT RENDERED, They couldn't organise a fling in a brewery!! They are pathetic.
Three days in, and much of Patcham is still impassible. Not a bus in sight - and we certainly haven't seen any gritters here.
And if you do manage to get into town, the roads may now be OK, but the pavements are sheets of ice. Why are there no grit-bins? Has anyone thought about the pedestrians? How many people are in A and E as a result?
Clearly, the council has screwed up badly. Because I have a deeply cynical mind, I keep wondering whether this is all about cost cutting; the price of the Tories' forthcoming pre-election Council Tax bribe. Whatever the truth, Brighton Council has totally failed in its duty to its citizens.
But then this council is led by a party whose leaders' reaction to bad weather is to send the butler out ...
Runner50
says...
3:34pm Sun 20 Dec 09
We have a grit box in our road...but its empty!! All the side streets are sheet ice..very dangerous.
And what is it with k*obs who drive white vans!!!! Do they think they are invincable!!! Grrrrrrr.
heavenscentrose
says...
4:57pm Sun 20 Dec 09
pw08 wrote:pw08 - You obviously do not know how a Council operates.
Cass wrote: Just how long are the roads of Brighton and Hove going to remain treacherous?? No buses in outline areas, WHY haven't the roads been treated since Thursday night? Why isn't R French creating merry hell? He usually has a very loud voice when there is a problem for his buses. What the heck is going on???? Sack the flaming lot at Brighton Council, they have had our money for services, NOT RENDERED, They couldn't organise a fling in a brewery!! They are pathetic.Indeed. Three days in, and much of Patcham is still impassible. Not a bus in sight - and we certainly haven't seen any gritters here. And if you do manage to get into town, the roads may now be OK, but the pavements are sheets of ice. Why are there no grit-bins? Has anyone thought about the pedestrians? How many people are in A and E as a result? Clearly, the council has screwed up badly. Because I have a deeply cynical mind, I keep wondering whether this is all about cost cutting; the price of the Tories' forthcoming pre-election Council Tax bribe. Whatever the truth, Brighton Council has totally failed in its duty to its citizens. But then this council is led by a party whose leaders' reaction to bad weather is to send the butler out ...
It is the Officers' duty to arrange for operational matters to be carried out on a day-to-day basis. Therefore it is the responsibility of the relevant Officers to ensure that, in this case, roads are gritted.
It has NOTHING to do with party politics. If there is any criticism to be levied, then it should be at the Officers, not the Councillors.
Do you think that for every decision that has to be made, the Officers arrange for a Committee meeting of Councillors to make an operational decision? Of course not.
pw08, perhaps you should check your facts before launching into a tirade against the wrong people and using this platform to vocalise your political opinions.
Furthermore, do you think that any Councillor, of whatever political party, would be stupid enough to give an instruction which would put their electors' lives at risk? Of couse they wouldn't.
I do know how Councils are run as I have, in the past, worked for a local authority at Deputy Chief Executive level.
Runner50
says...
6:08pm Sun 20 Dec 09
I don't think there is any easy answer to this, we simply do not experience enough extremes of weather like this to warrant more gritters etc.
We could also be pitching in instead of pointing the finger of blame. My family and neighbours have been out clearing our section of road and pavements...if others did this it would help. More grit boxes? Full grit boxes? Every little helps!
snowballs
says...
6:56pm Sun 20 Dec 09
pw08
says...
7:57pm Sun 20 Dec 09
heavenscentrose wrote:Sorry, this is deeply disingenous.
pw08 wrote:pw08 - You obviously do not know how a Council operates.
Cass wrote: Just how long are the roads of Brighton and Hove going to remain treacherous?? No buses in outline areas, WHY haven't the roads been treated since Thursday night? Why isn't R French creating merry hell? He usually has a very loud voice when there is a problem for his buses. What the heck is going on???? Sack the flaming lot at Brighton Council, they have had our money for services, NOT RENDERED, They couldn't organise a fling in a brewery!! They are pathetic.Indeed. Three days in, and much of Patcham is still impassible. Not a bus in sight - and we certainly haven't seen any gritters here. And if you do manage to get into town, the roads may now be OK, but the pavements are sheets of ice. Why are there no grit-bins? Has anyone thought about the pedestrians? How many people are in A and E as a result? Clearly, the council has screwed up badly. Because I have a deeply cynical mind, I keep wondering whether this is all about cost cutting; the price of the Tories' forthcoming pre-election Council Tax bribe. Whatever the truth, Brighton Council has totally failed in its duty to its citizens. But then this council is led by a party whose leaders' reaction to bad weather is to send the butler out ...
It is the Officers' duty to arrange for operational matters to be carried out on a day-to-day basis. Therefore it is the responsibility of the relevant Officers to ensure that, in this case, roads are gritted.
It has NOTHING to do with party politics. If there is any criticism to be levied, then it should be at the Officers, not the Councillors.
Do you think that for every decision that has to be made, the Officers arrange for a Committee meeting of Councillors to make an operational decision? Of course not.
pw08, perhaps you should check your facts before launching into a tirade against the wrong people and using this platform to vocalise your political opinions.
Furthermore, do you think that any Councillor, of whatever political party, would be stupid enough to give an instruction which would put their electors' lives at risk? Of couse they wouldn't.
I do know how Councils are run as I have, in the past, worked for a local authority at Deputy Chief Executive level.
Councillors do not normally intervene in operational matters; but they do set policy and guidelines, and above all control the purse-strings. Elected politicians, not officers, should carry the can when policies unravel.
And my point is that I suspect that the failure to do the job properly is less to do with operational failure than with a pervasive culture of cost-cutting - closing library facilities, cutting staff pay and the rest of it - which has become endemic since the current minority administration took over.
gingersandy38
says...
9:10pm Sun 20 Dec 09
Dyno
says...
10:38pm Sun 20 Dec 09
Its fine to blame the Council for these things but residents have the ability to improve their neighbourhood. It doesnt take much to throw some salt infront of their houses.
David BN3
says...
10:45pm Sun 20 Dec 09
Tim W
says...
12:00am Mon 21 Dec 09
heavenscentrose
says...
12:40am Mon 21 Dec 09
pw08 wrote:You really do not know how the Council operates, otherwise you would not say that my post was deeply disingenuous. Everything in my post was totally factual.
heavenscentrose wrote:Sorry, this is deeply disingenous. Councillors do not normally intervene in operational matters; but they do set policy and guidelines, and above all control the purse-strings. Elected politicians, not officers, should carry the can when policies unravel. And my point is that I suspect that the failure to do the job properly is less to do with operational failure than with a pervasive culture of cost-cutting - closing library facilities, cutting staff pay and the rest of it - which has become endemic since the current minority administration took over.pw08 wrote:pw08 - You obviously do not know how a Council operates. It is the Officers' duty to arrange for operational matters to be carried out on a day-to-day basis. Therefore it is the responsibility of the relevant Officers to ensure that, in this case, roads are gritted. It has NOTHING to do with party politics. If there is any criticism to be levied, then it should be at the Officers, not the Councillors. Do you think that for every decision that has to be made, the Officers arrange for a Committee meeting of Councillors to make an operational decision? Of course not. pw08, perhaps you should check your facts before launching into a tirade against the wrong people and using this platform to vocalise your political opinions. Furthermore, do you think that any Councillor, of whatever political party, would be stupid enough to give an instruction which would put their electors' lives at risk? Of couse they wouldn't. I do know how Councils are run as I have, in the past, worked for a local authority at Deputy Chief Executive level.Cass wrote: Just how long are the roads of Brighton and Hove going to remain treacherous?? No buses in outline areas, WHY haven't the roads been treated since Thursday night? Why isn't R French creating merry hell? He usually has a very loud voice when there is a problem for his buses. What the heck is going on???? Sack the flaming lot at Brighton Council, they have had our money for services, NOT RENDERED, They couldn't organise a fling in a brewery!! They are pathetic.Indeed. Three days in, and much of Patcham is still impassible. Not a bus in sight - and we certainly haven't seen any gritters here. And if you do manage to get into town, the roads may now be OK, but the pavements are sheets of ice. Why are there no grit-bins? Has anyone thought about the pedestrians? How many people are in A and E as a result? Clearly, the council has screwed up badly. Because I have a deeply cynical mind, I keep wondering whether this is all about cost cutting; the price of the Tories' forthcoming pre-election Council Tax bribe. Whatever the truth, Brighton Council has totally failed in its duty to its citizens. But then this council is led by a party whose leaders' reaction to bad weather is to send the butler out ...
When Council Committee meetings are held, it is the Officers who, in the same way as civil servants act for Government Ministers, advise the Councillors of situations and make suggestions to the Committees for discussion and consideration. What you must remember is that the current Council inherited a vast financial problem caused by the previous administration's failure to cap overspending, as will be the case for the next National administration. You really must re-evaluate your opinions based on the facts of the situation.
Teila82
says...
10:48am Mon 21 Dec 09
It's snow and ice, get over it. Will be gone in a few days.
And before you moan at me, yes, I have done my part. I spent 2 hours de-icing the path to my building as there are a few elderly residents.
Roflcoptor
says...
1:44pm Mon 21 Dec 09
But what do we pay Council tax for ?
Where are the boxes of grit that USED to be on the corner of many streets? Where are the gritters?
All Most seem to see is the fun, what about the costs and cons? Where is our tax money ?
R0gertheCabinBoy
says...
1:49pm Mon 21 Dec 09
Teila82 wrote:Well aren't you a clever little girl? 2 hours de-icing a path.
Why don't people stop moanin and help them selfs. You're all very quick to blame others and I appreciate that the gritters are not perfect, however, get off your a** and help clear a pathway tather than waiting for every one else to do it for you.
It's snow and ice, get over it. Will be gone in a few days.
And before you moan at me, yes, I have done my part. I spent 2 hours de-icing the path to my building as there are a few elderly residents.
...
Quick question though - what about those of us who want to do more than just walk 10 yards outside our front doors?
...
Do you suggest that we carry a bag of grit everywhere, throwing handfuls in front of ourselves as we walk to Tesco/Sainsbury's/th
e local shop/the train station, etc?
...
And how do you suggests that the elderly people currently sporting broken limbs (or worse) after taking a nasty fall on ice 'get over it'?
Wiggsy
says...
1:52pm Mon 21 Dec 09
Teila82 wrote:Whilst very public spirited of you, some Saxo on the roads is not going to help driving conditions, much less clear just a small amount of public pathways; the concerns most people are highlighting are the fact that its the Council's obligation to ensure roads and pathways are treated for the conditions currently being experienced.
Why don't people stop moanin and help them selfs. You're all very quick to blame others and I appreciate that the gritters are not perfect, however, get off your a** and help clear a pathway tather than waiting for every one else to do it for you. It's snow and ice, get over it. Will be gone in a few days. And before you moan at me, yes, I have done my part. I spent 2 hours de-icing the path to my building as there are a few elderly residents.
As it stands, 3 days later and there remains no real evidence of sideroads, backroads and pathways being gritted whatsoever and once again the blame is placed upon shortage of grit. According to the news this morning the Binmen are now being called into action to help grit problematic areas.
deni
says...
1:55pm Mon 21 Dec 09
Roflcoptor
says...
2:03pm Mon 21 Dec 09
This is the top of a steep hill but some bright spark decided to remove them.
Gritting is not cost effective,There is no profit in gritting. The money spent on gritting is better used to buy CCTV cameras and PARKING meters...So it seems!
heavenscentrose
says...
2:16pm Mon 21 Dec 09
davyboy
says...
2:18pm Mon 21 Dec 09
Runner50
says...
2:41pm Mon 21 Dec 09
As I said earlier my family and neighbours all spent a good two hours clearing the section of road and pavements outside our house..if the rest of the capable street had joined in the whole road would be clear.
And the good news is our grit box has just been re-filled...yippeee
Gaz the great
says...
3:08pm Mon 21 Dec 09
davyboy
says...
3:30pm Mon 21 Dec 09
Runner50
says...
3:36pm Mon 21 Dec 09
Roflcoptor
says...
3:44pm Mon 21 Dec 09
The Sheeple work to pay and pay to work. Pay your tax then do the work for the council ! How long before you are paying more and more to do more and more of the councils work.
You are being easily led to Slavery Bah Bah.
alexh
says...
3:49pm Mon 21 Dec 09
http://polls.linkedi
n.com/p/71168/iburv
Isabel
says...
4:08pm Mon 21 Dec 09
David BN3 wrote:Good to hear that the gritters have cleared the main roads. Just wonder if there will be some salt left at the elm grove so we can put some on our frozen pavements and roads between Elm Grove and Hartington Road. Pavements are a death trap.
Just got in and the roads are still lethal. The taxi driver was saying how so few roads have been gritted. The pavements are a death trap! I wonder how many casualties it will take for the council to start sorting out the ice rinks that that pass for pavements?
Teila82
says...
4:10pm Mon 21 Dec 09
Yes we can all moan and point out the obvious failings with the council but what are you actually going to do about other then moan on a local web page.
Yes we all pay council tax, however, how far do you think this actaully stretches? Snow is a rare weather condition (whether we know about it coming or not) so why "plough" all this council tax money you're so keen to mention into it.
I appreciate and understand the roads and pavements are icy and very dangerous for all, however, it is still just a few days of the year that it happens.
And yes..I am clever little girl...miserable s*d
graham w
says...
4:27pm Mon 21 Dec 09
R0gertheCabinBoy
says...
4:41pm Mon 21 Dec 09
...
So many selfish people laving comments here - the I'm-alright-Jack brigade.
ianlawton
says...
4:42pm Mon 21 Dec 09
Spx
says...
4:45pm Mon 21 Dec 09
Brighton fails angry SheMales
Slippery fails, soiled smalls
Wouldn't it be classier to call it a glacier
Pity the Hippy because the clocks are too slippy
I've poured me Saxo to maxo
Staying all toasty sending angry posty
Dear Mrs Mears
I'm finding it hard to blow my wad
at Marks or Debs
I'm feeling a little bitter that I haven't seen a gritter
I pray he'll dump a load at the bottom of my road
Oh hang on - it's melted!
Runner50
says...
4:50pm Mon 21 Dec 09
Gaz the great
says...
5:00pm Mon 21 Dec 09
Yumbomumbo
says...
5:06pm Mon 21 Dec 09
Went to Churchill Square today and was flabergasted to see that it was still very treacherous around the steps down to the shopping centre...and this is the busiest, most central place in Brighton.
Old Ladys Gin
says...
5:07pm Mon 21 Dec 09
ArthurD wrote:All aviation reporting in the Argus (and also particularly in Sky News) has glaring innacuracies as a general rule.
"and a runway at Gatwick has been closed".
That would be the single one they have then!
I suppose you could spice it up by saying "all runways at.."
Sky reported that 'the' runway at Manchester was closed; an airport which has two.
Some of the reporting is ludicrous to the point that you think a five year old bashing about in Wikipedia would make a better job.
Mrs Reasonable
says...
5:13pm Mon 21 Dec 09
Anyway, here's the (standard?) response:
"
Thank you for your message regarding the winter gritting operations of
Brighton and Hove City Council.
I can confirm that we do not routinely treat side roads or lower used
footways within the City this being due to the need to ensure main
routes are kept passable and the resources available to the council as a
whole.
We have a fleet of 6 lorries that are used for the gritting operations
and they were fully committed to the main / bus routes throughout the
City over the last few days and nights and could not be spared for side
roads. Currently the drivers (there are 2 full sets of drivers) are
being rested as we have further cold weather forecasts and therefore we
can not afford to use all their driving hours up and then be unable to
grit the main roads over night again.
Footways require a huge resource to clear them and we always endeavour
to work in a priority basis when snow clearance is required. This being
main shopping areas, hospitals etc. first. This process will take us
several days to complete depending on the prevailing weather conditions
and the current weather patterns have caused us to have to go back to
areas already cleared and work on them again.
This means side roads and the majority of the cities footways will not
be treated but there are a large number of side streets within Brighton
and Hove in a similar position and we as an Authority have to prioritise
our resources to the most used roads in these circumstances.
We also place grit bins on certain side roads that can be utilised by
residents to help grit their own roads but these are generally only
placed on junctions which have some incline etc. as these areas are of
the highest risk. The grit bin request form can be found on the
Brighton and Hove web site if you feel your road needs this addition.
Any requests received will be considered and a needs list will be
created from these requests.
We have issued instructions for all grit bins currently in use within
Brighton and Hove to be checked and refilled as necessary also.
I am sorry I cannot give you a more positive response but do assure you
we endeavour to utilise the resources available to us in the most
effective manner and to help the most residents possible. "
Hmmm.
sje
says...
5:14pm Mon 21 Dec 09
Runner50
says...
5:31pm Mon 21 Dec 09
However, I would hope that the Council do look at where they could have made improvements and at least put in place an action plan to deal with this situation should it happen again.
It is obvious that the Council (what ever party is in) is under resourced, with the money spread so thinly it only takes a problem like this for everything to go t*ts up.
Maybe there should be a central 'flying squad' :-) to deal with these sorts of situations as they happen. Perhaps county wide as the weather can vary from area to area on many occasions.
Right now we live in a take take society, sometimes we just have to get on with the situation and make the best of it.
Darling2
says...
5:48pm Mon 21 Dec 09
The_Daz
says...
5:50pm Mon 21 Dec 09
I happen to know that all 6 gritters were out doing all the bus routes (146 miles worth), pretty much 24-7 since Thursday. All the people involved are exhausted and most have not seen their familys over the weekend because they were busy trying to keep the city going. The bus company is the joke, 2 days with no buses because of 'health and safety reasons', yeah right, just plain lazy if you ask me, espesh when the bus routes were clear. Lucky the gritter drivers don't think like them, if they did then this city would grind to a halt. Thankfully they don't think like the bus company, well done B&H Council Gritting & Highways staff! :o)
R0gertheCabinBoy
says...
6:05pm Mon 21 Dec 09
Runner50 wrote:Were you following the whole exchange?
Thats very intelligent reply Roger the cabin boy.
...
Either way I'm not sure that your comment added anything to it one way or the other :-)
kkj
says...
6:05pm Mon 21 Dec 09
Yumbomumbo wrote:The area you refer to in Churchill Square is the responsibility of Churchill Square management - nothing to do with the council. I suggest you drop them a line.
If the council is very overstretched in these weather conditions, why doesn't it dump grit in piles along the pavements? The residents could at least have a bit of a go at sorting out the problem themselves. Our pavement was basically transformed into a downhill luge run to Western Road - there were groups of us standing there with boiling kettles, brooms and table salt attempting to clear it so I'm sure we could have done the job ourselves if we had been given the grit. Went to Churchill Square today and was flabergasted to see that it was still very treacherous around the steps down to the shopping centre...and this is the busiest, most central place in Brighton.
Runner50
says...
6:09pm Mon 21 Dec 09
I think we should thank everyone who has worked throughout the bad weather, a thank less task.
Roflcoptor
says...
6:09pm Mon 21 Dec 09
Maybe more drivers are needed BECAUSE OF HEALTH AND SAFETY.
Maybe the Council need to employ more people, Maybe they need to use the money we hand over in a more efficient way. Maybe the lack of resources is down to the HEALTH AND SAFETY regulations (deliveries and such like).
We all know that councils are shedding jobs whilst upping taxes.
We know they are only likely to spend money on profit making schemes (parking meters just 1 example)
We know that bonuses and lavish expense accounts need to be paid.
When will "we" the people find our back bones (that seem to have been hidden away for so long now) and actualy do something about the stupid and farcical situations that ALL councils seem to be in..The whole country is unravelling like a moldy onion.
hovevoice1
says...
6:12pm Mon 21 Dec 09
Runner50
says...
6:15pm Mon 21 Dec 09
R0gertheCabinBoy wrote:Yes, Roger I had read the whole thread and was merely commenting on your intelligence :-)
Runner50 wrote: Thats very intelligent reply Roger the cabin boy.Were you following the whole exchange? ... Either way I'm not sure that your comment added anything to it one way or the other :-)
Now lets move back to grit or lack of it!
yorkie44
says...
6:15pm Mon 21 Dec 09
mark by the sea
says...
6:34pm Mon 21 Dec 09
kemptownmassive
says...
6:38pm Mon 21 Dec 09
Whilst I do not blame the council workers someone must take blame.
i.e. the managers can they not employ more staff or have a contingency plan.
As a front line NHS worker I can honestly say that sat/sun were both some of the worst days I have ever seen!
Many people wouldnt of fallen if the council had acted more efficiently. The delays to urgent cases where also immense due to the knock on effect from walking wounded and emergency crews being unavailable.
Cgull
says...
7:32pm Mon 21 Dec 09
heavenscentrose
says...
7:56pm Mon 21 Dec 09
Runner50 wrote:Good ideas, Runner 50.
Graham...the trouble is it won't be a small ammount in terms of cost. However, I would hope that the Council do look at where they could have made improvements and at least put in place an action plan to deal with this situation should it happen again. It is obvious that the Council (what ever party is in) is under resourced, with the money spread so thinly it only takes a problem like this for everything to go t*ts up. Maybe there should be a central 'flying squad' :-) to deal with these sorts of situations as they happen. Perhaps county wide as the weather can vary from area to area on many occasions. Right now we live in a take take society, sometimes we just have to get on with the situation and make the best of it.
Another is: why not use some of the millions of profits made from parking fines/taxes to help clear the roads in a big freeze. Otherwise, perhaps we should question what happens to these vast sums of money. This would be an excellent use for vehicle/road related income.
Jay Mollison
says...
8:04pm Mon 21 Dec 09
Roflcoptor
says...
9:12pm Mon 21 Dec 09
Any1 had a parking ticket becouse they could not move their car ?
Ile be amazed if the wardens have not been doing their revenue collections for the Council.
davyboy
says...
10:59pm Mon 21 Dec 09
Roflcoptor wrote:i think you will find that, if the yellow lines are not visible,(ie covered in snow) the ticket cannot be issued. the WHOLE line has to be visible along its total length, so, unless these wardens carry shovels and salt with them, no tickets can be issued. if you get one, make sure you photo the place before moving your vehicle, and challenge it!!
Just a thought..
Any1 had a parking ticket becouse they could not move their car ?
Ile be amazed if the wardens have not been doing their revenue collections for the Council.
heavenscentrose
says...
12:41am Tue 22 Dec 09
Roflcoptor wrote:The following appeared on the Brighton and Hove City Council website and has not been changed since 1 pm on Monday, 21 December (it's now 0041 on Tuesday, 22 December):
Just a thought.. Any1 had a parking ticket becouse they could not move their car ? Ile be amazed if the wardens have not been doing their revenue collections for the Council.
Parking
•There has been no parking enforcement in Brighton & Hove since Friday. However, the council is now conducting minimal parking enforcement on main roads to ensure they are passable.
•We are asking motorists to place a sign in their windows if they are unable to move their vehicle.
Davyboy's advice is very relevant and also hope this helps.
aly-lou
says...
1:04am Tue 22 Dec 09
Where have the Yellow Salt & Grit Bins GONE?
twosugars
says...
1:33am Tue 22 Dec 09
The_Daz wrote:I have never read such utter crap in my life!
To all the people who are moaning about the apparant lack of gritting: You don't have a clue what you are talking about! I happen to know that all 6 gritters were out doing all the bus routes (146 miles worth), pretty much 24-7 since Thursday. All the people involved are exhausted and most have not seen their familys over the weekend because they were busy trying to keep the city going. The bus company is the joke, 2 days with no buses because of 'health and safety reasons', yeah right, just plain lazy if you ask me, espesh when the bus routes were clear. Lucky the gritter drivers don't think like them, if they did then this city would grind to a halt. Thankfully they don't think like the bus company, well done B&H Council Gritting & Highways staff! :o)
There were numerous accidents involving cars and vans skidding on ungritted roads or roads where the grit had had no real effect. To suggest buses should have been sent out on these roads is idiotic.
Buses WERE run where it was safe to do so. Some routes were shortened to avoid icy hills, for instance, Abbey road (37s), Copse hill (27s), Hangleton and Woodingdean to name but a few.
As the roads thawed and became passable routes were reopened into these areas, but only when it was safe and responsible to do so.
If jolly roger had put profits before public safety by running buses on these icy hills and someone got injured or killed, the bus haters on here would be the first to kick off - and quite rightly so.
caeos
says...
2:01am Tue 22 Dec 09
davyboy
says...
7:34am Tue 22 Dec 09
aly-lou wrote:the council didn't force her to go out, or push her over. yes they are responsible to keep footpaths clear, where possible, but you have a responsibility for your own safety too!!! if you think it too dangerous, don't go. simples!
My friend has slipped over and broken her leg thanks to Brighton and Hove City Council! What a lovely Christmas present you can give a young lady!
Where have the Yellow Salt & Grit Bins GONE?
stan bailey
says...
7:54am Tue 22 Dec 09
Whitedot wrote:The old fashioned wooden sledges with metal runners used to break down the icy surface, the modern plastic ones just polish the ice making it more dangerous
Old Dog wrote:Yes, it is. Now go away and be quiet.
It's winter. It snows. The country grinds to a halt. It's not news!
Runner50
says...
8:45am Tue 22 Dec 09
You can't simply dump a pile of salt unless it is going to be used immediately or it is in a container.
Jay...there was gritting before the snow came (I follwed a gritter home) but once the snow fell the grit becomes inactive. So they have to regrit. It also needs to be a mixture of grit and rock salt to be effective. Grit for grip and salt to melt.
Parking Wardens were out in Lewes yesterday.
Darling2
says...
10:45am Tue 22 Dec 09
If a major disaster occurred, such as a train collision for example, and a thousand injured people were admitted to Hospital and A&E, and Council stood by doing nothing as they have done, heads would roll. So let's see heads roll.
salty_pete
says...
11:06am Tue 22 Dec 09
Runner50
says...
11:27am Tue 22 Dec 09
Too much blame blame, why is it that there always has to be a scapegoat? Everyone makes mistakes, the point is to learn from the mistake and move on. I often wonder if those who sit at a computer blaming the Council etc would actually make a better job of it all. Its very easy to say yes we would, but in reality...would we?
She-Ra, Princess Of Power
says...
11:33am Tue 22 Dec 09
They cannot be everywhere and grit every single road every single day. They simply do not have the resources to do it. I shouldn't think there is ever a huge amount of cash invested in snow and ice defences, how often does this happen, seriously? Would you all prefer they spend a few hundred grand to prep for something that might never happen? (Staff, equipment etc) Would that please you? What exactly are they supposed to do?
They are doing the best with the resources they have. There are only so many gritters, so many people who can drive them and so many hours a week those people can legally drive. As far as I can make out, they're operating within their budgets. Would you all prefer to pay huuuuuge amounts of council tax for a winter contingency fund? How much of your council tax do you think goes towards this, £1600 a year doesn't actually stretch very far across the council and emergency services.
I completely appreciate how difficult these conditions make life for everyone, myself included, but is it the council's fault it snowed? You all say they knew it was coming, well YOU ALL knew it was coming too, and frankly it wouldn't hurt those of you who are able to to get off your whinging backsides and clear some of it youself. Older people and the less mobile will need a hand - so the rest of us should be offering that help. We should help our neighbours. When did we become a nation of people who expect everything to be done for them, hmm?
I understand WHY people are frustrated, but seriously, are you all expecting the council to clear EVERY single road and pavement in B&H? Realistically you know full well that isn't going to happen. They can't take responsibility for EVERYTHING, sometimes we all have to take a little of that ourselves.
Mr Numptyhead
says...
12:09pm Tue 22 Dec 09
The excuses just don't wash, they should have brought in some temps if they don't have the manpower to do any gritting of pavements. They didn't even provide grit so we could DIY.
It was so dangerous on sidewalks that everyone has been walking in the roads, a major safety problem in itself.
Sod budgets, how much do broken bones cost?
And yes, we did clear our own road of ice but occasionally felt the need to walk elsewhere too.
Rostrum
says...
12:11pm Tue 22 Dec 09
google it.. order some today... Stick them in a drawer at home for the next time.
Rostrum
says...
1:20pm Tue 22 Dec 09
She-Ra, Princess Of Power wrote:She-Ra .. The Council OWN the streets and roads.. They charge us MONEY to keeep them clearn and in good order. If it were my property I'm sure they'd be 'very concerned' about the state I'd left it in.
I am SOOOOOO bored of hearing everyone whinging about the council, seriously, WTF? They cannot be everywhere and grit every single road every single day. They simply do not have the resources to do it. I shouldn't think there is ever a huge amount of cash invested in snow and ice defences, how often does this happen, seriously? Would you all prefer they spend a few hundred grand to prep for something that might never happen? (Staff, equipment etc) Would that please you? What exactly are they supposed to do? They are doing the best with the resources they have. There are only so many gritters, so many people who can drive them and so many hours a week those people can legally drive. As far as I can make out, they're operating within their budgets. Would you all prefer to pay huuuuuge amounts of council tax for a winter contingency fund? How much of your council tax do you think goes towards this, £1600 a year doesn't actually stretch very far across the council and emergency services. I completely appreciate how difficult these conditions make life for everyone, myself included, but is it the council's fault it snowed? You all say they knew it was coming, well YOU ALL knew it was coming too, and frankly it wouldn't hurt those of you who are able to to get off your whinging backsides and clear some of it youself. Older people and the less mobile will need a hand - so the rest of us should be offering that help. We should help our neighbours. When did we become a nation of people who expect everything to be done for them, hmm? I understand WHY people are frustrated, but seriously, are you all expecting the council to clear EVERY single road and pavement in B&H? Realistically you know full well that isn't going to happen. They can't take responsibility for EVERYTHING, sometimes we all have to take a little of that ourselves.
Voice of Unreason
says...
1:22pm Tue 22 Dec 09
People have become total wooses and expect everything to be done for them.
People seeem to have lost the skill of driving on snow and ice. 30 years ago all drivers managed. Why do people fall over on the pavements? Wrong shoes - simple.
We need to grow up as a nation, and stop blaming everyone else. If there's snow outside your house and it bothers you - move it yourself! That's what people do in all other cold countries.
Pretty much all the roads were passable the day after the snowfall. The problem was the lack of driving skills.
Words fail me reading all these moaning minnies.
Just GROW UP!
graham w
says...
1:30pm Tue 22 Dec 09
K. Ross
says...
1:32pm Tue 22 Dec 09
Barney McGrew
says...
2:04pm Tue 22 Dec 09
jay316
says...
2:16pm Tue 22 Dec 09
I saw a gritter on Sunday Evening down queens park road. And working around town on Sat and Sun doing deliveries, we didn't see any others.
Sweepster
says...
2:50pm Tue 22 Dec 09
Voice of Unreason wrote:30 years ago there was a lot less traffic on the road therefore less hazards to slide into.
They didn't grit our road at the top of Hollingdean at all, or the pavements, but everyone up here coped as far as I know.
People have become total wooses and expect everything to be done for them.
People seeem to have lost the skill of driving on snow and ice. 30 years ago all drivers managed. Why do people fall over on the pavements? Wrong shoes - simple.
We need to grow up as a nation, and stop blaming everyone else. If there's snow outside your house and it bothers you - move it yourself! That's what people do in all other cold countries.
Pretty much all the roads were passable the day after the snowfall. The problem was the lack of driving skills.
Words fail me reading all these moaning minnies.
Just GROW UP!
I think also, there is a pressure to get to work by some companies resulting in people being on the roads. If jobs are not life saving then people should be told to stay at home. I went to McDonalds at the Marina on Friday and was told there were not many staff in, I thought so what if I cant get my big mac! But I appreciate there are those that if they dont work dont get paid. Sad state of affairs really.
How do they manage in places like Canada?
Runner50
says...
2:58pm Tue 22 Dec 09
Running out of electricity is no joke and I would hope that someone would have come to your aid.
Whatever our views/opinions or who we blame...there needs to be a change of thought pattern for us all...Council, residents, shop owners...everyone.
heavenscentrose
says...
3:26pm Tue 22 Dec 09
"pdch, canada says...
8:28am Tue 22 Dec 09
i live in canada, and it there is a bylaw saying that the residents and retailers have to clear the pavements outside their houses and busineses there is a fine if you don't comply"
Perhaps our authorities should take note.
She-Ra, Princess Of Power
says...
3:50pm Tue 22 Dec 09
Voice of Unreason wrote:Haha, I couldn't agree more! The amount of idiots I have seen out in stilettos, high heels, you name it.... it beggars belief!
They didn't grit our road at the top of Hollingdean at all, or the pavements, but everyone up here coped as far as I know. People have become total wooses and expect everything to be done for them. People seeem to have lost the skill of driving on snow and ice. 30 years ago all drivers managed. Why do people fall over on the pavements? Wrong shoes - simple. We need to grow up as a nation, and stop blaming everyone else. If there's snow outside your house and it bothers you - move it yourself! That's what people do in all other cold countries. Pretty much all the roads were passable the day after the snowfall. The problem was the lack of driving skills. Words fail me reading all these moaning minnies. Just GROW UP!
Rostrum - I very much doubt the Council would be on your back for failing to clear ice and snow from your own property ;o) I don't disagree that they are responsible for doing it - but everyone has to realise that the service is proportionate to the amount of money allocated to the service. They can only do the best with what they've got.
If more money needs to be put into it, that's a matter for those in the office rather than the people on the streets busting their butts to do the best job they can with what they have!
Teila82
says...
4:23pm Tue 22 Dec 09
Old Ladys Gin
says...
4:31pm Tue 22 Dec 09
We cannot survive without these things and they should therefore be a priority, money coming from elsewhere if needs be.
It's about time councils shelved the needless 'feel good' parts of their budgets and concentrated on keeping the place moving.
Runner50
says...
4:55pm Tue 22 Dec 09
Totally agree with She-ra.
kemptownmassive
says...
6:15pm Tue 22 Dec 09
Other institutions such as the NHS have to account for their inept errors and take some responsibility.
Is the council accountable to anyone?
the V.Large idiot
says...
8:29pm Tue 22 Dec 09
Stingo wrote:Stingo, just one question.....why didn't you pay attention at school?
Gritterdriver some questions. You say you were out gritting at 1600 why does your boses say that you dont go out till 1900. Why did your boses say that the gritters would clear the bus routes in Hollingburry last night and no one came. Why did you wait untill the snow arrived it has been forcasted for days. They forcasted 8 inches so how was Brighton caught out. Why do gritters if they come out grit at 30mph plus slower would put more salt on the roads. Why can i not hear the disel engines or see the orange strobe lights going past my front window i can answer that because no gritters were out gritting this road/bus route i can tell that also by the fact there are no tyre tracks in the snow. Come on boys stop bieng sparing with the truth to protect your boses and also why has the call center 292929 been closed cause everyone knows that the gritters have failed brighton once again just like every other time.
owlman
says...
10:01pm Tue 22 Dec 09
surendon road a main bus route
whitch never got treated no busses for three and a half day,s the side road,s are still dangerous if I told the council I could not get down to pay
council tax a gritter would be here
a s a p to make sure they can get
my money to pay for the christmas
party and bonuses Ithink it is about time they treat all payer,s equal
main road and side street after all
we all pay thier wages
Barney McGrew
says...
4:10am Wed 23 Dec 09
binmans wife
says...
9:16am Wed 23 Dec 09
darrenc
says...
11:46am Wed 23 Dec 09
Stingo
says...
11:46am Thu 24 Dec 09
binmans wife wrote:Think you will find that people are not attaking the ground workers like your husband they are attacking the so called brains department thats the ones that lie on TV and in the papers. But if they had got out of the warm office and got their hands dirty for a change. Most peoples complaints are that the council could have and should have deployed gritters during the day at least then we might have stood a chance at some clear roads. As it stands at the moment we have not had a bus for 6 days
My husband and collegues were out the other day all day gritting by hand. Gritting by hand is not in a dustmans job discription but they still went out and risked slipping over themseves to clear pathways. Before he went out he saw a friend arriving back at the depot after being out all night risking his own life by driving a huge gritting vehicle in the ice and snow. He himself had gritted his particular round a few times but it seemed it didn't make any difference. He was then asked to go out and grit wherever he thought could do with it. To think the other month the council were going take money away from the dust men.They are worth thier weight in gold.
Gritting teams were finally sent out yesterday
Old Dog says...
4:28pm Thu 17 Dec 09