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Anti-sleaze war hero dramatically halts lapdancing meeting
Protesters fighting plans for a lapdancing club were dramatically ordered out of a licensing meeting after a war hero refused to sit down and shut up.
Around 25 campaigners were in Worthing Town Hall's public gallery when veteran anti-sleaze campaigner Steve Stevens rose to his feet holding a piece of paper stating: "Say no to lapdancing".
He was immediately told to sit down by borough council licensing committee chairman, coun John Lovell, who then adjourned the meeting as security guards, who had earlier searched people's bags, ejected the public.
Mr Stevens had compiled a 600-name petition against plans for the club at Le Chic bar in Chatsworth Road, Worthing.
He had earlier warned the town would "burn in hell" if the club was granted permission to operate.
The meeting was later reconvened in the nearby Gordon Room, with the Press, but not the public, allowed in.
Mark Weeden, pastor of Worthing Tabernacle church, Chapel Road, who was speaking against the club, apologised for the behaviour of Mr Stevens, who was wearing his war medals and remained defiant outside the meeting.
His outburst was backed by fellow protester Raymond New, 68, of Howard Street, Worthing, who said: "We are here to make a public stand. Lapdancing is just the tip of the iceberg. If this is introduced all sorts of other things could be introduced."
Mr Weeden said: "Alochol plus erotic dancing will fuel the passions and appetites of males who are in these premises. The consequences of this are bawdiness, loudness and lewdness."
But Barry Wells, co-owner of the club, said many people supported the idea of a lapdancing club in the town.
He said there would be no fully nude dancing and no dancing in private rooms.
The meeting continues.
11:28am Thursday 27th March 2008
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CommentPosted by: Another on 11:41am Thu 27 Mar 08
Why is this man a war hero? Just because he served in WW2, he's classed as a hero? Someone please explain.
Why is this man a war hero? Just because he served in WW2, he's classed as a hero? Someone please explain.
Posted by: modelo1a, Brighton on 11:51am Thu 27 Mar 08
As much as I don't like the idea of strip joints, and that sort of thing, people should be able to have a choice as to what they want as entertainment. We have to read the drivvle that 'T.Ruth' continually posts, so therefore, we should be allowed to do what we want to do. Personally, the occsional night out on a pub crawl to catch up with mates suits me.
As much as I don't like the idea of strip joints, and that sort of thing, people should be able to have a choice as to what they want as entertainment. We have to read the drivvle that 'T.Ruth' continually posts, so therefore, we should be allowed to do what we want to do. Personally, the occsional night out on a pub crawl to catch up with mates suits me.
Posted by: Sue, Brighton on 12:08pm Thu 27 Mar 08
Thanks to the selfish actions of Steve Stevens (by the way, his parents should be punished for lacking imagination!) NO ONE got to put their point across at this meeting. It seems he's quite happy for everyone to hear his stance on this subject but is not willing to hear anyone elses views. Did he not fight in the war for our rights to freedom of speech or is that only on subjects he approves of?
Thanks to the selfish actions of Steve Stevens (by the way, his parents should be punished for lacking imagination!) NO ONE got to put their point across at this meeting. It seems he's quite happy for everyone to hear his stance on this subject but is not willing to hear anyone elses views. Did he not fight in the war for our rights to freedom of speech or is that only on subjects he approves of?
Posted by: bob, lewes on 12:09pm Thu 27 Mar 08
Well done old man - wasting taxpayers money by halting a meeting very mature.
You do not represent the view of tehe majority of Worthing residents.
Well done old man - wasting taxpayers money by halting a meeting very mature.
You do not represent the view of tehe majority of Worthing residents.
Posted by: Paul, Brighton Seafront on 12:16pm Thu 27 Mar 08
Our lager,
Which art in barrels,
Hallowed be thy drink,
Thy will be drunk,
(I will be drunk),
At home as I am in the tavern.
Give us this day our foamy head,
And forgive us our spillage's,
As we forgive those who spill against us,
and lead us not to incarceration,
But deliver us from hangovers,
For Thine is the beer,
The bitter and the lager,
Forever and ever, Barmen.
Our lager,
Which art in barrels,
Hallowed be thy drink,
Thy will be drunk,
(I will be drunk),
At home as I am in the tavern.
Give us this day our foamy head,
And forgive us our spillage's,
As we forgive those who spill against us,
and lead us not to incarceration,
But deliver us from hangovers,
For Thine is the beer,
The bitter and the lager,
Forever and ever, Barmen.
Posted by: Me, here on 12:20pm Thu 27 Mar 08
[quote][bold]Paul[/bold] wrote:
Our lager, Which art in barrels, Hallowed be thy drink, Thy will be drunk, (I will be drunk), At home as I am in the tavern. Give us this day our foamy head, And forgive us our spillage's, As we forgive those who spill against us, and lead us not to incarceration, But deliver us from hangovers, For Thine is the beer, The bitter and the lager, Forever and ever, Barmen. [/quote] Amen to that, brother! lol!
Paul wrote:
Our lager, Which art in barrels, Hallowed be thy drink, Thy will be drunk, (I will be drunk), At home as I am in the tavern. Give us this day our foamy head, And forgive us our spillage's, As we forgive those who spill against us, and lead us not to incarceration, But deliver us from hangovers, For Thine is the beer, The bitter and the lager, Forever and ever, Barmen.
Amen to that, brother! lol!
Posted by: Steve.Stevens on 12:25pm Thu 27 Mar 08
[quote][bold]bob[/bold] wrote:
Well done old man - wasting taxpayers money by halting a meeting very mature. You do not represent the view of tehe majority of Worthing residents. [/quote] I am speaking for a large section of Worthing residents, you are quite entitled to your views but the young and old need protection from the purveyors of these vile and ungodly practises.
All the time the council is keen to make a quick and easy profit without worrying from what immoral source it is coming i shall protest.Throwing me out of a meeting will not shut me or my supporters up.
bob wrote:
Well done old man - wasting taxpayers money by halting a meeting very mature. You do not represent the view of tehe majority of Worthing residents.
I am speaking for a large section of Worthing residents, you are quite entitled to your views but the young and old need protection from the purveyors of these vile and ungodly practises.
All the time the council is keen to make a quick and easy profit without worrying from what immoral source it is coming i shall protest.Throwing me out of a meeting will not shut me or my supporters up.
Posted by: Me, here on 12:30pm Thu 27 Mar 08
[quote][bold]Steve.Stevens[/bold] wrote:
[quote][bold]bob[/bold] wrote: Well done old man - wasting taxpayers money by halting a meeting very mature. You do not represent the view of tehe majority of Worthing residents. [/quote] I am speaking for a large section of Worthing residents, you are quite entitled to your views but the young and old need protection from the purveyors of these vile and ungodly practises. All the time the council is keen to make a quick and easy profit without worrying from what immoral source it is coming i shall protest.Throwing me out of a meeting will not shut me or my supporters up.[/quote] Like 600 out of 60000 - yeah, a REALLY large section!
Oh, and those practises you mention, are only vile and ungodly in YOUR opinion.
Steve.Stevens wrote:
bob wrote: Well done old man - wasting taxpayers money by halting a meeting very mature. You do not represent the view of tehe majority of Worthing residents.
I am speaking for a large section of Worthing residents, you are quite entitled to your views but the young and old need protection from the purveyors of these vile and ungodly practises. All the time the council is keen to make a quick and easy profit without worrying from what immoral source it is coming i shall protest.Throwing me out of a meeting will not shut me or my supporters up.
Like 600 out of 60000 - yeah, a REALLY large section!
Oh, and those practises you mention, are only vile and ungodly in YOUR opinion.
Posted by: Leroy, NYC on 12:30pm Thu 27 Mar 08
[quote][bold]Another[/bold] wrote:
Why is this man a war hero? Just because he served in WW2, he's classed as a hero? Someone please explain.[/quote] Well, the article did mention he was wearing his war medals so maybe that is the reason. But I agree, no definitive independently verifiable evidence of this unfortunately named man's heroism, has been presented. Also, the relevance of this information, true or otherwise is somewhat unclear. Are we saying the opinions of an ex-serviceman should be given greater weight in the local governmental decision making process than that of an ordinary civilian? Should there be some sort of 'sliding scale' of bravery that allows courageous people more say in council matters and consigns cowardly yellow-bellies to the political wilderness? Who knows.
Another wrote:
Why is this man a war hero? Just because he served in WW2, he's classed as a hero? Someone please explain.
Well, the article did mention he was wearing his war medals so maybe that is the reason. But I agree, no definitive independently verifiable evidence of this unfortunately named man's heroism, has been presented. Also, the relevance of this information, true or otherwise is somewhat unclear. Are we saying the opinions of an ex-serviceman should be given greater weight in the local governmental decision making process than that of an ordinary civilian? Should there be some sort of 'sliding scale' of bravery that allows courageous people more say in council matters and consigns cowardly yellow-bellies to the political wilderness? Who knows.
Posted by: modelo1a, Brighton on 12:34pm Thu 27 Mar 08
[quote][bold]Steve.Stevens[/bold] wrote:
[quote][bold]bob[/bold] wrote: Well done old man - wasting taxpayers money by halting a meeting very mature. You do not represent the view of tehe majority of Worthing residents. [/quote] I am speaking for a large section of Worthing residents, you are quite entitled to your views but the young and old need protection from the purveyors of these vile and ungodly practises. All the time the council is keen to make a quick and easy profit without worrying from what immoral source it is coming i shall protest.Throwing me out of a meeting will not shut me or my supporters up.[/quote] Shut up - who gives you the right to tell people what to do? If you refused to listen to the other people, or indeed, allowed people to make their views, then you are breaking peoples' right to speak. Wonder how many supporters you really have? Bet they don't outnunber those who would allow the club to go ahead. Go and join the anti-Falmer brigade. Failing that, take a leaf out of Heather Mills' book and bog off overseas (if she goes through with it).
Steve.Stevens wrote:
bob wrote: Well done old man - wasting taxpayers money by halting a meeting very mature. You do not represent the view of tehe majority of Worthing residents.
I am speaking for a large section of Worthing residents, you are quite entitled to your views but the young and old need protection from the purveyors of these vile and ungodly practises. All the time the council is keen to make a quick and easy profit without worrying from what immoral source it is coming i shall protest.Throwing me out of a meeting will not shut me or my supporters up.
Shut up - who gives you the right to tell people what to do? If you refused to listen to the other people, or indeed, allowed people to make their views, then you are breaking peoples' right to speak. Wonder how many supporters you really have? Bet they don't outnunber those who would allow the club to go ahead. Go and join the anti-Falmer brigade. Failing that, take a leaf out of Heather Mills' book and bog off overseas (if she goes through with it).
Posted by: chris holden, worthing on 12:35pm Thu 27 Mar 08
Yet again the god botheres think thet speak for others They create so much misery why dont they look at there own stuff urgh
Yet again the god botheres think thet speak for others They create so much misery why dont they look at there own stuff urgh
Posted by: Biblical Knowledge, Hove on 12:38pm Thu 27 Mar 08
Interesting to hear that Christians think that sex is dirty! Personally I've never heard someone say such drivel. I don't think I know anyone in any of the churches I've been to who thinks sex is dirty. It's typical of the constant misrepresentation that people who have a bee in their bonnet about religion love to spout. I suspect most of them would not have the guts to post similar things about other faiths!
For the record the bible encourages sex, not discourages it. It makes it very clear what a wonderful thing it is. The only difference is that it does point out that sex in the wrong context is damaging.
Just thought I'd set the record straight so that the loonies who don't know what the bible says can get over their illness!
Interesting to hear that Christians think that sex is dirty! Personally I've never heard someone say such drivel. I don't think I know anyone in any of the churches I've been to who thinks sex is dirty. It's typical of the constant misrepresentation that people who have a bee in their bonnet about religion love to spout. I suspect most of them would not have the guts to post similar things about other faiths!
For the record the bible encourages sex, not discourages it. It makes it very clear what a wonderful thing it is. The only difference is that it does point out that sex in the wrong context is damaging.
Just thought I'd set the record straight so that the loonies who don't know what the bible says can get over their illness!
Posted by: chris holden, worthing on 12:38pm Thu 27 Mar 08
Yeah so much for the war hero his actions meant the meeting was behind closed doors So we are uncertain as to the proceedings nice one you old duffer
Yeah so much for the war hero his actions meant the meeting was behind closed doors So we are uncertain as to the proceedings nice one you old duffer
Posted by: Christian, Brighton on 12:38pm Thu 27 Mar 08
Sex is only dirty and disgusting until we're married then there's no stopping us!
Sex is only dirty and disgusting until we're married then there's no stopping us!
Posted by: bob, lewes on 12:47pm Thu 27 Mar 08
"I am speaking for a large section of Worthing residents, you are quite entitled to your views but the young and old need protection from the purveyors of these vile and ungodly practises.
All the time the council is keen to make a quick and easy profit without worrying from what immoral source it is coming i shall protest.Throwing me out of a meeting will not shut me or my supporters up."
If as you say others are entitled to their view then you contradict yourself because your actions denied the others in that meeting from having their view.
[bold]Care to explain to me why my and other residents council tax should be wasted on meeting you selfishly choose to abort, do I go wasting your money? & I think you will find your little petition representsjust 0.6% of Worthing residents[/bold]
You are pathetic, selfish and distrurbed individual, my grandparents also fought in the war but they have the self respect and decorum that you lack, I'm ashamed that Worting is associated with you.
"I am speaking for a large section of Worthing residents, you are quite entitled to your views but the young and old need protection from the purveyors of these vile and ungodly practises.
All the time the council is keen to make a quick and easy profit without worrying from what immoral source it is coming i shall protest.Throwing me out of a meeting will not shut me or my supporters up."
If as you say others are entitled to their view then you contradict yourself because your actions denied the others in that meeting from having their view.
Care to explain to me why my and other residents council tax should be wasted on meeting you selfishly choose to abort, do I go wasting your money? & I think you will find your little petition representsjust 0.6% of Worthing residents
You are pathetic, selfish and distrurbed individual, my grandparents also fought in the war but they have the self respect and decorum that you lack, I'm ashamed that Worting is associated with you.
Posted by: Disgusted,Worthing on 12:48pm Thu 27 Mar 08
I suppose a gay clubs out the question then.....
I suppose a gay clubs out the question then.....
Posted by: Jack the Ripper, Whitechapel on 12:53pm Thu 27 Mar 08
[quote][bold]Steve.Stevens[/bold] wrote:
[quote][bold]bob[/bold] wrote: Well done old man - wasting taxpayers money by halting a meeting very mature. You do not represent the view of tehe majority of Worthing residents. [/quote] I am speaking for a large section of Worthing residents, you are quite entitled to your views but the young and old need protection from the purveyors of these vile and ungodly practises. All the time the council is keen to make a quick and easy profit without worrying from what immoral source it is coming i shall protest.Throwing me out of a meeting will not shut me or my supporters up.[/quote] Are they YOUR supporters or supporters of your cause?-you can't tell fact from fiction your egotistical c@@nt. "Blessed are the meek for they shall inherit the earth."
You Mr Stevens shall rest in hell for all eternity.........
Steve.Stevens wrote:
bob wrote: Well done old man - wasting taxpayers money by halting a meeting very mature. You do not represent the view of tehe majority of Worthing residents.
I am speaking for a large section of Worthing residents, you are quite entitled to your views but the young and old need protection from the purveyors of these vile and ungodly practises. All the time the council is keen to make a quick and easy profit without worrying from what immoral source it is coming i shall protest.Throwing me out of a meeting will not shut me or my supporters up.
Are they YOUR supporters or supporters of your cause?-you can't tell fact from fiction your egotistical c@@nt. "Blessed are the meek for they shall inherit the earth."
You Mr Stevens shall rest in hell for all eternity.........
Posted by: Godfree, Brighton on 12:54pm Thu 27 Mar 08
This is how most religions deal with things they don't like - they block discussion and shout down any objectors who disagree with their point of view. After all, with God on your side, why listen to reason?
Anyway, lap dancing clubs aren't that big a deal. And for those of us for whom hell is simply a story used to frighten the ignorant, we cna make our own minds up without being lectured to by a man who's only apparent qualifications for decision making is that he was once in war. I don't think they had lap dancing then, so he doesn't have much experience in this field.
This is how most religions deal with things they don't like - they block discussion and shout down any objectors who disagree with their point of view. After all, with God on your side, why listen to reason?
Anyway, lap dancing clubs aren't that big a deal. And for those of us for whom hell is simply a story used to frighten the ignorant, we cna make our own minds up without being lectured to by a man who's only apparent qualifications for decision making is that he was once in war. I don't think they had lap dancing then, so he doesn't have much experience in this field.
Posted by: Godfree, Brighton on 1:01pm Thu 27 Mar 08
Why are my comments being deleted? Or isare they vanishing simply as a result of the rubbish website template code used by the Argus?
Why are my comments being deleted? Or isare they vanishing simply as a result of the rubbish website template code used by the Argus?
Posted by: Godfree, Brighton on 1:03pm Thu 27 Mar 08
And now the comment has returned! It's magic, that's what it is...
And now the comment has returned! It's magic, that's what it is...
Posted by: Reg - PLFJ or similar, Lewes on 1:12pm Thu 27 Mar 08
Nothing much changes in Worthing does it? This is the same town that banned the showing of the 'Life of Brian' all those years ago, probably on the grounds it was simply too funny for the residents there. That film did however raise the question "Who are the meek?"
Nothing much changes in Worthing does it? This is the same town that banned the showing of the 'Life of Brian' all those years ago, probably on the grounds it was simply too funny for the residents there. That film did however raise the question "Who are the meek?"
Posted by: Grandad?, At work on 1:29pm Thu 27 Mar 08
War hero or old fool??
Obviously not the correct way to let people hear your arguements was it Mr. Stevens???
And, the world has moved on considerably since you were young!
19 and not 89 years of age and you'd be getting an ASBO for that behaviour!
War hero or old fool??
Obviously not the correct way to let people hear your arguements was it Mr. Stevens???
And, the world has moved on considerably since you were young!
19 and not 89 years of age and you'd be getting an ASBO for that behaviour!
Posted by: Tara Phlapps, Portslade on 1:40pm Thu 27 Mar 08
I just want to see the eels.
I just want to see the eels.
Posted by: T.Ruth on 2:13pm Thu 27 Mar 08
[quote][bold]Biblical Knowledge[/bold] wrote:
Interesting to hear that Christians think that sex is dirty! Personally I've never heard someone say such drivel. I don't think I know anyone in any of the churches I've been to who thinks sex is dirty. It's typical of the constant misrepresentation that people who have a bee in their bonnet about religion love to spout. I suspect most of them would not have the guts to post similar things about other faiths! For the record the bible encourages sex, not discourages it. It makes it very clear what a wonderful thing it is. The only difference is that it does point out that sex in the wrong context is damaging. Just thought I'd set the record straight so that the loonies who don't know what the bible says can get over their illness![/quote] I agree with your comment, but male or female sexual exhibitionism for gain is wrong, because it is no different to prostitution. True love between a man and a woman is cemented by the precious and intimate sexual act of copulation, which with Gods blessing will result in procreation of treasured children into a loving and healthy environment rather than into a depraved, debauched loveless existence, which is only too common nowadays.
It is well known that prostitutes and strippers despise men for their lustful weaknesses; in fact most women despise the men who use them that they turn to Lesbianism as an escape and some people believe that most male strippers are in fact closet homosexuals, which all goes to paint a rather ghastly picture of what is happening to humanity.
Biblical Knowledge wrote:
Interesting to hear that Christians think that sex is dirty! Personally I've never heard someone say such drivel. I don't think I know anyone in any of the churches I've been to who thinks sex is dirty. It's typical of the constant misrepresentation that people who have a bee in their bonnet about religion love to spout. I suspect most of them would not have the guts to post similar things about other faiths! For the record the bible encourages sex, not discourages it. It makes it very clear what a wonderful thing it is. The only difference is that it does point out that sex in the wrong context is damaging. Just thought I'd set the record straight so that the loonies who don't know what the bible says can get over their illness!
I agree with your comment, but male or female sexual exhibitionism for gain is wrong, because it is no different to prostitution. True love between a man and a woman is cemented by the precious and intimate sexual act of copulation, which with Gods blessing will result in procreation of treasured children into a loving and healthy environment rather than into a depraved, debauched loveless existence, which is only too common nowadays.
It is well known that prostitutes and strippers despise men for their lustful weaknesses; in fact most women despise the men who use them that they turn to Lesbianism as an escape and some people believe that most male strippers are in fact closet homosexuals, which all goes to paint a rather ghastly picture of what is happening to humanity.
Posted by: John on 2:16pm Thu 27 Mar 08
Well done Steve, keep up the good work, the silent majority is supporting you on this.
Well done Steve, keep up the good work, the silent majority is supporting you on this.
Posted by: Me, here on 2:19pm Thu 27 Mar 08
[quote][bold]T.Ruth[/bold] wrote:
[quote][bold]Biblical Knowledge[/bold] wrote: Interesting to hear that Christians think that sex is dirty! Personally I've never heard someone say such drivel. I don't think I know anyone in any of the churches I've been to who thinks sex is dirty. It's typical of the constant misrepresentation that people who have a bee in their bonnet about religion love to spout. I suspect most of them would not have the guts to post similar things about other faiths! For the record the bible encourages sex, not discourages it. It makes it very clear what a wonderful thing it is. The only difference is that it does point out that sex in the wrong context is damaging. Just thought I'd set the record straight so that the loonies who don't know what the bible says can get over their illness![/quote] I agree with your comment, but male or female sexual exhibitionism for gain is wrong, because it is no different to prostitution. True love between a man and a woman is cemented by the precious and intimate sexual act of copulation, which with Gods blessing will result in procreation of treasured children into a loving and healthy environment rather than into a depraved, debauched loveless existence, which is only too common nowadays. It is well known that prostitutes and strippers despise men for their lustful weaknesses; in fact most women despise the men who use them that they turn to Lesbianism as an escape and some people believe that most male strippers are in fact closet homosexuals, which all goes to paint a rather ghastly picture of what is happening to humanity. [/quote] LOSER...LOSER....cop
y and paste your drivel as much as you like!
Pass on my congrats to Steve Stevens for his marvellous tactics!
T.Ruth wrote:
Biblical Knowledge wrote: Interesting to hear that Christians think that sex is dirty! Personally I've never heard someone say such drivel. I don't think I know anyone in any of the churches I've been to who thinks sex is dirty. It's typical of the constant misrepresentation that people who have a bee in their bonnet about religion love to spout. I suspect most of them would not have the guts to post similar things about other faiths! For the record the bible encourages sex, not discourages it. It makes it very clear what a wonderful thing it is. The only difference is that it does point out that sex in the wrong context is damaging. Just thought I'd set the record straight so that the loonies who don't know what the bible says can get over their illness!
I agree with your comment, but male or female sexual exhibitionism for gain is wrong, because it is no different to prostitution. True love between a man and a woman is cemented by the precious and intimate sexual act of copulation, which with Gods blessing will result in procreation of treasured children into a loving and healthy environment rather than into a depraved, debauched loveless existence, which is only too common nowadays. It is well known that prostitutes and strippers despise men for their lustful weaknesses; in fact most women despise the men who use them that they turn to Lesbianism as an escape and some people believe that most male strippers are in fact closet homosexuals, which all goes to paint a rather ghastly picture of what is happening to humanity.
LOSER...LOSER....cop
y and paste your drivel as much as you like!
Pass on my congrats to Steve Stevens for his marvellous tactics!
Posted by: Joan on 2:21pm Thu 27 Mar 08
YES St Steve, I have managed to get 9253 signatures on my petition against this vile application, we must stop it for the sake of our children.
YES St Steve, I have managed to get 9253 signatures on my petition against this vile application, we must stop it for the sake of our children.
Posted by: John, Worthing on 2:26pm Thu 27 Mar 08
[quote][bold]Joan[/bold] wrote:
YES St Steve, I have managed to get 9253 signatures on my petition against this vile application, we must stop it for the sake of our children.[/quote] Erm, a bit late now darlin'.
Joan wrote:
YES St Steve, I have managed to get 9253 signatures on my petition against this vile application, we must stop it for the sake of our children.
Erm, a bit late now darlin'.
Posted by: Sue, Brighton on 2:49pm Thu 27 Mar 08
[quote]Posted by: John on 2:16pm today
Well done Steve, keep up the good work, the silent majority is supporting you on this.
quote]
Maybe if you weren't so silent you wouldn't have a lapdancing club opening on your doorstep! As you have found out, silent support does naff all!
Posted by: John on 2:16pm today
Well done Steve, keep up the good work, the silent majority is supporting you on this.
quote]
Maybe if you weren't so silent you wouldn't have a lapdancing club opening on your doorstep! As you have found out, silent support does naff all!
Posted by: Men Tally, Hill on 2:49pm Thu 27 Mar 08
[quote][bold]Biblical Knowledge[/bold] wrote:
Interesting to hear that Christians think that sex is dirty! Personally I\'ve never heard someone say such drivel. I don\'t think I know anyone in any of the churches I\'ve been to who thinks sex is dirty. It\'s typical of the constant misrepresentation that people who have a bee in their bonnet about religion love to spout. I suspect most of them would not have the guts to post similar things about other faiths! For the record the bible encourages sex, not discourages it. It makes it very clear what a wonderful thing it is. The only difference is that it does point out that sex in the wrong context is damaging. Just thought I\'d set the record straight so that the loonies who don\'t know what the bible says can get over their illness![/quote] You are mentally ill. It is all man made and made up in your mind. No faith is being singled out here over any other : just a response to one making the biggest quacking noise.
Biblical Knowledge wrote:
Interesting to hear that Christians think that sex is dirty! Personally I\'ve never heard someone say such drivel. I don\'t think I know anyone in any of the churches I\'ve been to who thinks sex is dirty. It\'s typical of the constant misrepresentation that people who have a bee in their bonnet about religion love to spout. I suspect most of them would not have the guts to post similar things about other faiths! For the record the bible encourages sex, not discourages it. It makes it very clear what a wonderful thing it is. The only difference is that it does point out that sex in the wrong context is damaging. Just thought I\'d set the record straight so that the loonies who don\'t know what the bible says can get over their illness!
You are mentally ill. It is all man made and made up in your mind. No faith is being singled out here over any other : just a response to one making the biggest quacking noise.
Posted by: Dirty, under a Habit on 2:53pm Thu 27 Mar 08
[quote][bold]Christian[/bold] wrote:
Sex is only dirty and disgusting until we're married then there's no stopping us![/quote] what about all those dirty priests the church hides : they're not married! There's no stopping them! ...apparently!
Christian wrote:
Sex is only dirty and disgusting until we're married then there's no stopping us!
what about all those dirty priests the church hides : they're not married! There's no stopping them! ...apparently!
Posted by: freedom of choice, ferring on 3:00pm Thu 27 Mar 08
It is well known that prostitutes and strippers despise men for their lustful weaknesses; in fact most women despise the men who use them that they turn to Lesbianism as an escape and some people believe that most male strippers are in fact closet homosexuals,
WHAT a load of bollards. and how insulting to all! You don't turn to lesbianism you ARE a lesbian, or a gay man!!!! its not a lifestyle choice its the way you are!! I am sure SOME male strippers ARE gay but not all of them, and as for 'being in the closet' what century are you in? LOSER
It is well known that prostitutes and strippers despise men for their lustful weaknesses; in fact most women despise the men who use them that they turn to Lesbianism as an escape and some people believe that most male strippers are in fact closet homosexuals,
WHAT a load of bollards. and how insulting to all! You don't turn to lesbianism you ARE a lesbian, or a gay man!!!! its not a lifestyle choice its the way you are!! I am sure SOME male strippers ARE gay but not all of them, and as for 'being in the closet' what century are you in? LOSER
Posted by: T.Ruth, Worthing on 3:07pm Thu 27 Mar 08
You are quite right, I retract those comments. The reason I cannot bear to see naked female flesh is because I am a closet homosexual myself. In fact I'm so far back in the closet I've just found a hat I lost in the 1960s.
You are quite right, I retract those comments. The reason I cannot bear to see naked female flesh is because I am a closet homosexual myself. In fact I'm so far back in the closet I've just found a hat I lost in the 1960s.
Posted by: Observer on 3:22pm Thu 27 Mar 08
[quote][bold]freedom of choice[/bold] wrote:
It is well known that prostitutes and strippers despise men for their lustful weaknesses; in fact most women despise the men who use them that they turn to Lesbianism as an escape and some people believe that most male strippers are in fact closet homosexuals, WHAT a load of bollards. and how insulting to all! You don't turn to lesbianism you ARE a lesbian, or a gay man!!!! its not a lifestyle choice its the way you are!! I am sure SOME male strippers ARE gay but not all of them, and as for 'being in the closet' what century are you in? LOSER[/quote] Quote “The way you are” unquote, are you claiming that homosexuality is a genetic error, because error it must be if it is genetic and it certainly wasn't an intentional natural evolutional error or mankind would very soon have become extinct if men were meant to sleep with men and women were meant to sleep with women, which brings IVF for Lesbians and sperm from Gay men into question, because if you are correct and if homosexuality is a genetic error, should we encourage procreation from people who are the result of or a carrier of a genetic error? I am not trying to be offensive, but it’s a fair question now that you have raised the issue, isn’t it?
freedom of choice wrote:
It is well known that prostitutes and strippers despise men for their lustful weaknesses; in fact most women despise the men who use them that they turn to Lesbianism as an escape and some people believe that most male strippers are in fact closet homosexuals, WHAT a load of bollards. and how insulting to all! You don't turn to lesbianism you ARE a lesbian, or a gay man!!!! its not a lifestyle choice its the way you are!! I am sure SOME male strippers ARE gay but not all of them, and as for 'being in the closet' what century are you in? LOSER
Quote “The way you are” unquote, are you claiming that homosexuality is a genetic error, because error it must be if it is genetic and it certainly wasn't an intentional natural evolutional error or mankind would very soon have become extinct if men were meant to sleep with men and women were meant to sleep with women, which brings IVF for Lesbians and sperm from Gay men into question, because if you are correct and if homosexuality is a genetic error, should we encourage procreation from people who are the result of or a carrier of a genetic error? I am not trying to be offensive, but it’s a fair question now that you have raised the issue, isn’t it?
Posted by: Jack, Worthing on 3:23pm Thu 27 Mar 08
[quote][bold]Another[/bold] wrote:
Why is this man a war hero? Just because he served in WW2, he's classed as a hero? Someone please explain.[/quote] The man is a war hero because he PUT HIS LIFE ON THE LINE TO DEFEAT THE NAZI MENACE. I am not against the club, but I wish those that fought for king and country between 1939 and 45 got the respect they are entitled to. [bold]WE SHOULD NEVER FORGET[/bold] .
Another wrote:
Why is this man a war hero? Just because he served in WW2, he's classed as a hero? Someone please explain.
The man is a war hero because he PUT HIS LIFE ON THE LINE TO DEFEAT THE NAZI MENACE. I am not against the club, but I wish those that fought for king and country between 1939 and 45 got the respect they are entitled to.
WE SHOULD NEVER FORGET .
Posted by: Me, here on 4:33pm Thu 27 Mar 08
[quote][bold]T.Ruth[/bold] wrote:
You are quite right, I retract those comments. The reason I cannot bear to see naked female flesh is because I am a closet homosexual myself. In fact I'm so far back in the closet I've just found a hat I lost in the 1960s. [/quote] Thanks for that post, whoever you are. I'm still laughing my ar*e off!!
T.Ruth wrote:
You are quite right, I retract those comments. The reason I cannot bear to see naked female flesh is because I am a closet homosexual myself. In fact I'm so far back in the closet I've just found a hat I lost in the 1960s.
Thanks for that post, whoever you are. I'm still laughing my ar*e off!!
Posted by: Delilah, E Sussex on 4:39pm Thu 27 Mar 08
[quote][bold]Steve.Stevens[/bold] wrote:
[quote][bold]bob[/bold] wrote:
Well done old man - wasting taxpayers money by halting a meeting very mature. You do not represent the view of tehe majority of Worthing residents. [/quote] I am speaking for a large section of Worthing residents, you are quite entitled to your views but the young and old need protection from the purveyors of these vile and ungodly practises.
All the time the council is keen to make a quick and easy profit without worrying from what immoral source it is coming i shall protest.Throwing me out of a meeting will not shut me or my supporters up.[/quote] You could be respected for your views if in fact they were your motivation.
If you believe strongly that this club is a bad idea, then do your research, and put your point across in a rational and respectful way.
Screaming and shouting, attacking all those who don't agree with you by calling them names, and directing your anger at people will never help your cause.
It will make you look like a fool. Very few people will take you seriously. Even the ones that agree with you will not want to be associated with the negative way in which you portray yourself.
The pen is mightier than the sword as they say. My advice to you would be to learn how to communicate your views in a way which people will listen to you. The more you shout, the more people will shout back. It's not the way to do things.
Look at your own religion Mr Stevens and ask how your Jesus behaved. Did he stand in the street screaming at everyone who walked past?
Steve.Stevens wrote:
bob wrote:
Well done old man - wasting taxpayers money by halting a meeting very mature. You do not represent the view of tehe majority of Worthing residents.
I am speaking for a large section of Worthing residents, you are quite entitled to your views but the young and old need protection from the purveyors of these vile and ungodly practises.
All the time the council is keen to make a quick and easy profit without worrying from what immoral source it is coming i shall protest.Throwing me out of a meeting will not shut me or my supporters up.
You could be respected for your views if in fact they were your motivation.
If you believe strongly that this club is a bad idea, then do your research, and put your point across in a rational and respectful way.
Screaming and shouting, attacking all those who don't agree with you by calling them names, and directing your anger at people will never help your cause.
It will make you look like a fool. Very few people will take you seriously. Even the ones that agree with you will not want to be associated with the negative way in which you portray yourself.
The pen is mightier than the sword as they say. My advice to you would be to learn how to communicate your views in a way which people will listen to you. The more you shout, the more people will shout back. It's not the way to do things.
Look at your own religion Mr Stevens and ask how your Jesus behaved. Did he stand in the street screaming at everyone who walked past?
Posted by: Observer on 5:23pm Thu 27 Mar 08
[quote][bold]freedom of choice[/bold] wrote:
It is well known that prostitutes and strippers despise men for their lustful weaknesses; in fact most women despise the men who use them that they turn to Lesbianism as an escape and some people believe that most male strippers are in fact closet homosexuals, WHAT a load of bollards. and how insulting to all! You don't turn to lesbianism you ARE a lesbian, or a gay man!!!! its not a lifestyle choice its the way you are!! I am sure SOME male strippers ARE gay but not all of them, and as for 'being in the closet' what century are you in? LOSER[/quote] Quote “The way you are” unquote, are you claiming that homosexuality is a genetic error, because error it must be if it is genetic and it certainly wasn't an intentional natural evolutional error or mankind would very soon have become extinct if men were meant to sleep with men and women were meant to sleep with women, which brings IVF for Lesbians into question, because if you are correct and if homosexuality is a genetic error, should we encourage procreation from people who are the result of or a carrier of a genetic error? I am not trying to be offensive, but it’s a fair question now that you have raised the issue, isn’t it?
freedom of choice wrote:
It is well known that prostitutes and strippers despise men for their lustful weaknesses; in fact most women despise the men who use them that they turn to Lesbianism as an escape and some people believe that most male strippers are in fact closet homosexuals, WHAT a load of bollards. and how insulting to all! You don't turn to lesbianism you ARE a lesbian, or a gay man!!!! its not a lifestyle choice its the way you are!! I am sure SOME male strippers ARE gay but not all of them, and as for 'being in the closet' what century are you in? LOSER
Quote “The way you are” unquote, are you claiming that homosexuality is a genetic error, because error it must be if it is genetic and it certainly wasn't an intentional natural evolutional error or mankind would very soon have become extinct if men were meant to sleep with men and women were meant to sleep with women, which brings IVF for Lesbians into question, because if you are correct and if homosexuality is a genetic error, should we encourage procreation from people who are the result of or a carrier of a genetic error? I am not trying to be offensive, but it’s a fair question now that you have raised the issue, isn’t it?
Posted by: ToastersForBathToys, Brighton on 5:44pm Thu 27 Mar 08
I love the quote from one Mr Weedon, who appears have been beamed here directly from the year 1752: "The consequences of this are bawdiness, loudness and lewdness". If Worthing's moral standards were to slide still further, might it eventually lead to ribaldry, gaminess, and knavery?
I love the quote from one Mr Weedon, who appears have been beamed here directly from the year 1752: "The consequences of this are bawdiness, loudness and lewdness". If Worthing's moral standards were to slide still further, might it eventually lead to ribaldry, gaminess, and knavery?
Posted by: ToastersForBathToys, Brighton on 5:59pm Thu 27 Mar 08
Observer - quite right! It's got nothing to do with anything as sensible as genetics, gay people are [italic]evil and possessed by DEMONS!!! DEMONS I TELLS YOU!!!!![/italic]
Observer - quite right! It's got nothing to do with anything as sensible as genetics, gay people are
evil and possessed by DEMONS!!! DEMONS I TELLS YOU!!!!! Posted by: ron on 6:05pm Thu 27 Mar 08
!
-----
!
!
REPENT
Posted by: Observer on 6:54pm Thu 27 Mar 08
Quote “The way you are” unquote, are you claiming that homosexuality is a genetic error, because error it must be if it is genetic and it certainly wasn't an intentional natural evolutional error or mankind would very soon have become extinct if men were meant to sleep with men and women were meant to sleep with women, which brings IVF for Lesbians into question, because if you are correct and if homosexuality is a genetic error, should we encourage procreation from people who are the result of or a carrier of a genetic error? I am not trying to be offensive, but it’s a fair question now that you have raised the issue, isn’t it?
Come now, which one is it, is genetics or not, or is nurture or is nature, forgive the pun, but you can't have it both ways. ToastersForBathToys. Stand up and be counted, it’s a very important question and it appears that you should know the answer if anyone should.
Quote “The way you are” unquote, are you claiming that homosexuality is a genetic error, because error it must be if it is genetic and it certainly wasn't an intentional natural evolutional error or mankind would very soon have become extinct if men were meant to sleep with men and women were meant to sleep with women, which brings IVF for Lesbians into question, because if you are correct and if homosexuality is a genetic error, should we encourage procreation from people who are the result of or a carrier of a genetic error? I am not trying to be offensive, but it’s a fair question now that you have raised the issue, isn’t it?
Come now, which one is it, is genetics or not, or is nurture or is nature, forgive the pun, but you can't have it both ways. ToastersForBathToys. Stand up and be counted, it’s a very important question and it appears that you should know the answer if anyone should.
Posted by: Me, here on 7:10pm Thu 27 Mar 08
Fair question;
I don't know the answer, but I'll try.
I believe it is genetic, however, I do not see it as an 'error'. Some are born with many different characteristics, both physical and mental. Do you, for example, perceive someone born blind, deaf, albino, missing limbs, red hair, etc..etc..etc.. as being a genetic 'error'?
Would that preclude them from having children, in your opinion?
Do you think they 'chose' to be that way?
I suppose it depends on your interpretation of 'error'.
Mine obviously differs from yours.
Fair question;
I don't know the answer, but I'll try.
I believe it is genetic, however, I do not see it as an 'error'. Some are born with many different characteristics, both physical and mental. Do you, for example, perceive someone born blind, deaf, albino, missing limbs, red hair, etc..etc..etc.. as being a genetic 'error'?
Would that preclude them from having children, in your opinion?
Do you think they 'chose' to be that way?
I suppose it depends on your interpretation of 'error'.
Mine obviously differs from yours.
Posted by: Me, here on 7:36pm Thu 27 Mar 08
Come now, Observer, I have given you the courtesy of an answer.
I am intrigued as to your thoughts on this.
Come now, Observer, I have given you the courtesy of an answer.
I am intrigued as to your thoughts on this.
Posted by: AntiWar Sleaze Hero, Brighton on 7:38pm Thu 27 Mar 08
OK, I'll rise to that. I'm not an expert in the field of human evolution but have a vague grasp of the concept. I'd be very wary to use the word "error"; thanks to "Me" above for your point, I think I could go further and suggest how it could be an advantage to a species to have a certain homosexual percentage who would not reproduce, as it could stop the population from growing faster than the food supply of the area could support.
Your turn; how do you explain all the documented incidents of homosexuality in non-human animals?
Oh and one more thing... where did this tangent come from in the first place? Isn't this supposed to be about some old geezer who objected to a strip club? Barmy!
OK, I'll rise to that. I'm not an expert in the field of human evolution but have a vague grasp of the concept. I'd be very wary to use the word "error"; thanks to "Me" above for your point, I think I could go further and suggest how it could be an advantage to a species to have a certain homosexual percentage who would not reproduce, as it could stop the population from growing faster than the food supply of the area could support.
Your turn; how do you explain all the documented incidents of homosexuality in non-human animals?
Oh and one more thing... where did this tangent come from in the first place? Isn't this supposed to be about some old geezer who objected to a strip club? Barmy!
Posted by: Me, here on 7:49pm Thu 27 Mar 08
"Oh and one more thing... where did this tangent come from in the first place? Isn't this supposed to be about some old geezer who objected to a strip club? Barmy!"
I agree, I have no idea how we got to this:?
Still, I suppose 'Observer' had his reasons....?
"Oh and one more thing... where did this tangent come from in the first place? Isn't this supposed to be about some old geezer who objected to a strip club? Barmy!"
I agree, I have no idea how we got to this:?
Still, I suppose 'Observer' had his reasons....?
Posted by: Me, here on 7:59pm Thu 27 Mar 08
Hahaha! Just noticed your screen name (AntiWar Sleaze Hero).
I knew I'd seen something like it before! lol!
Hahaha! Just noticed your screen name (AntiWar Sleaze Hero).
I knew I'd seen something like it before! lol!
Posted by: Donna Kibbab, Meep Meep on 8:12pm Thu 27 Mar 08
[quote][bold]Godfree[/bold] wrote:
This is how most religions deal with things they don't like - they block discussion and shout down any objectors who disagree with their point of view. After all, with God on your side, why listen to reason? Anyway, lap dancing clubs aren't that big a deal. And for those of us for whom hell is simply a story used to frighten the ignorant, we cna make our own minds up without being lectured to by a man who's only apparent qualifications for decision making is that he was once in war. I don't think they had lap dancing then, so he doesn't have much experience in this field.[/quote] Funny that, because as I see it, it is people like you who are trying to shut someone up just because YOU don't like what HE is saying. Go back and count up how many times Mr Stevens is told to shut up on the different threads on here. You atheist fascists are the intolerant ones - why shouldn't he speak out on things he feels strongly about?
Godfree wrote:
This is how most religions deal with things they don't like - they block discussion and shout down any objectors who disagree with their point of view. After all, with God on your side, why listen to reason? Anyway, lap dancing clubs aren't that big a deal. And for those of us for whom hell is simply a story used to frighten the ignorant, we cna make our own minds up without being lectured to by a man who's only apparent qualifications for decision making is that he was once in war. I don't think they had lap dancing then, so he doesn't have much experience in this field.
Funny that, because as I see it, it is people like you who are trying to shut someone up just because YOU don't like what HE is saying. Go back and count up how many times Mr Stevens is told to shut up on the different threads on here. You atheist fascists are the intolerant ones - why shouldn't he speak out on things he feels strongly about?
Posted by: Doh on 8:17pm Thu 27 Mar 08
[quote][bold]Donna Kibbab[/bold] wrote:
[quote][bold]Godfree[/bold] wrote: This is how most religions deal with things they don't like - they block discussion and shout down any objectors who disagree with their point of view. After all, with God on your side, why listen to reason? Anyway, lap dancing clubs aren't that big a deal. And for those of us for whom hell is simply a story used to frighten the ignorant, we cna make our own minds up without being lectured to by a man who's only apparent qualifications for decision making is that he was once in war. I don't think they had lap dancing then, so he doesn't have much experience in this field.[/quote] Funny that, because as I see it, it is people like you who are trying to shut someone up just because YOU don't like what HE is saying. Go back and count up how many times Mr Stevens is told to shut up on the different threads on here. You atheist fascists are the intolerant ones - why shouldn't he speak out on things he feels strongly about? [/quote] *AHEM*
Remind me, WHO was removed from the meeting, earlier today?
Why was that, do you think?
Donna Kibbab wrote:
Godfree wrote: This is how most religions deal with things they don't like - they block discussion and shout down any objectors who disagree with their point of view. After all, with God on your side, why listen to reason? Anyway, lap dancing clubs aren't that big a deal. And for those of us for whom hell is simply a story used to frighten the ignorant, we cna make our own minds up without being lectured to by a man who's only apparent qualifications for decision making is that he was once in war. I don't think they had lap dancing then, so he doesn't have much experience in this field.
Funny that, because as I see it, it is people like you who are trying to shut someone up just because YOU don't like what HE is saying. Go back and count up how many times Mr Stevens is told to shut up on the different threads on here. You atheist fascists are the intolerant ones - why shouldn't he speak out on things he feels strongly about?
*AHEM*
Remind me, WHO was removed from the meeting, earlier today?
Why was that, do you think?
Posted by: Observer on 8:47pm Thu 27 Mar 08
[quote][bold]Me[/bold] wrote:
Come now, Observer, I have given you the courtesy of an answer. I am intrigued as to your thoughts on this.[/quote] Evolution according to Charles Darwin is driven by the “survival of the fittest” theory and in the animal kingdom as well as in the primate/homo sapien kingdom; this rule is no less important.
You ask whether I consider people born blind, deaf, albino, missing limbs, red hair are suffering from genetic errors, my answer is probably yes they are, but there are a few exceptions, for example, deafness and blindness can be caused by a STD, whereas the albino is a genetic mutation that shows itself now and again, but is of no apparent advantage to the human race, red hair is a genetic trait which is fast disappearing for reasons not worth pursuing.
Downs syndrome sufferers are unable to procreate and as in the animal kingdom any species that fails to procreate suffers extinction very quickly.
Entire species have come and gone for a variety of reasons including natural disasters and environmental catastrophes, but if one excludes the latter, one is left with a consistent pattern throughout history of the survival of the fittest as the most dominant factor in all living matter whether it be animal or vegetable, so I conclude by saying that evolution proceeds on the back of genetic mutation, but only when that mutation creates a benefit that results in the animal or vegetable being able to out do all competitors amongst its own kind.
Me wrote:
Come now, Observer, I have given you the courtesy of an answer. I am intrigued as to your thoughts on this.
Evolution according to Charles Darwin is driven by the “survival of the fittest” theory and in the animal kingdom as well as in the primate/homo sapien kingdom; this rule is no less important.
You ask whether I consider people born blind, deaf, albino, missing limbs, red hair are suffering from genetic errors, my answer is probably yes they are, but there are a few exceptions, for example, deafness and blindness can be caused by a STD, whereas the albino is a genetic mutation that shows itself now and again, but is of no apparent advantage to the human race, red hair is a genetic trait which is fast disappearing for reasons not worth pursuing.
Downs syndrome sufferers are unable to procreate and as in the animal kingdom any species that fails to procreate suffers extinction very quickly.
Entire species have come and gone for a variety of reasons including natural disasters and environmental catastrophes, but if one excludes the latter, one is left with a consistent pattern throughout history of the survival of the fittest as the most dominant factor in all living matter whether it be animal or vegetable, so I conclude by saying that evolution proceeds on the back of genetic mutation, but only when that mutation creates a benefit that results in the animal or vegetable being able to out do all competitors amongst its own kind.
Posted by: Kickboxer, Worthing on 9:41pm Thu 27 Mar 08
I am beginning to wonder if Steve Stevens is a homosexual as he is so obsessed about some women taking their clothes off, as for randy men accosting women when they come out of this proposed strip club has he not noticed the lack of clothes that some of the women that go clubbing wear, some of the skirts & tops are so small they are only one step away from being naked anyway.
I am beginning to wonder if Steve Stevens is a homosexual as he is so obsessed about some women taking their clothes off, as for randy men accosting women when they come out of this proposed strip club has he not noticed the lack of clothes that some of the women that go clubbing wear, some of the skirts & tops are so small they are only one step away from being naked anyway.
Posted by: Me, here on 12:38pm Fri 28 Mar 08
[quote][bold]Observer[/bold] wrote:
[quote][bold]Me[/bold] wrote: Come now, Observer, I have given you the courtesy of an answer. I am intrigued as to your thoughts on this.[/quote] Evolution according to Charles Darwin is driven by the “survival of the fittest” theory and in the animal kingdom as well as in the primate/homo sapien kingdom; this rule is no less important. You ask whether I consider people born blind, deaf, albino, missing limbs, red hair are suffering from genetic errors, my answer is probably yes they are, but there are a few exceptions, for example, deafness and blindness can be caused by a STD, whereas the albino is a genetic mutation that shows itself now and again, but is of no apparent advantage to the human race, red hair is a genetic trait which is fast disappearing for reasons not worth pursuing. Downs syndrome sufferers are unable to procreate and as in the animal kingdom any species that fails to procreate suffers extinction very quickly. Entire species have come and gone for a variety of reasons including natural disasters and environmental catastrophes, but if one excludes the latter, one is left with a consistent pattern throughout history of the survival of the fittest as the most dominant factor in all living matter whether it be animal or vegetable, so I conclude by saying that evolution proceeds on the back of genetic mutation, but only when that mutation creates a benefit that results in the animal or vegetable being able to out do all competitors amongst its own kind. [/quote] Very interesting, but I'm still not sure what point (if any) you are trying to make?
You asked earlier whether it is appropriate to allow gay/lesbian people to have children, as it may pass on this genetic trait (or 'error',as you call it).
What about heterosexual couples who were born infertile?
Since they did not choose to be born that way, do you consider them to have a genetic 'error'?
If so, would you suggest that they too should remain childless, for fear of passing on the 'error'?
Also, you say that homosexuas do not benefit the growth of a species and that it is determined by the survival of the fittest.
If that is completely true, then homosexual behaviour would have been 'evolved-out' (for want of a better phrase), yet it is as prevalent as ever.
Perhaps it does give certain benefits to mankind....who knows?
Again, it depends on what you consider to be an 'error'.
Observer wrote:
Me wrote: Come now, Observer, I have given you the courtesy of an answer. I am intrigued as to your thoughts on this.
Evolution according to Charles Darwin is driven by the “survival of the fittest” theory and in the animal kingdom as well as in the primate/homo sapien kingdom; this rule is no less important. You ask whether I consider people born blind, deaf, albino, missing limbs, red hair are suffering from genetic errors, my answer is probably yes they are, but there are a few exceptions, for example, deafness and blindness can be caused by a STD, whereas the albino is a genetic mutation that shows itself now and again, but is of no apparent advantage to the human race, red hair is a genetic trait which is fast disappearing for reasons not worth pursuing. Downs syndrome sufferers are unable to procreate and as in the animal kingdom any species that fails to procreate suffers extinction very quickly. Entire species have come and gone for a variety of reasons including natural disasters and environmental catastrophes, but if one excludes the latter, one is left with a consistent pattern throughout history of the survival of the fittest as the most dominant factor in all living matter whether it be animal or vegetable, so I conclude by saying that evolution proceeds on the back of genetic mutation, but only when that mutation creates a benefit that results in the animal or vegetable being able to out do all competitors amongst its own kind.
Very interesting, but I'm still not sure what point (if any) you are trying to make?
You asked earlier whether it is appropriate to allow gay/lesbian people to have children, as it may pass on this genetic trait (or 'error',as you call it).
What about heterosexual couples who were born infertile?
Since they did not choose to be born that way, do you consider them to have a genetic 'error'?
If so, would you suggest that they too should remain childless, for fear of passing on the 'error'?
Also, you say that homosexuas do not benefit the growth of a species and that it is determined by the survival of the fittest.
If that is completely true, then homosexual behaviour would have been 'evolved-out' (for want of a better phrase), yet it is as prevalent as ever.
Perhaps it does give certain benefits to mankind....who knows?
Again, it depends on what you consider to be an 'error'.
Posted by: T.Ruth on 10:05pm Sun 30 Mar 08
[quote][bold]Me[/bold] wrote:
[quote][bold]T.Ruth[/bold] wrote: You are quite right, I retract those comments. The reason I cannot bear to see naked female flesh is because I am a closet homosexual myself. In fact I'm so far back in the closet I've just found a hat I lost in the 1960s. [/quote] Thanks for that post, whoever you are. I'm still laughing my ar*e off!![/quote] I hate idiots who think their own jokes are funny, especially when they pretend someone else posted the comment, how pathetic.
Me wrote:
T.Ruth wrote: You are quite right, I retract those comments. The reason I cannot bear to see naked female flesh is because I am a closet homosexual myself. In fact I'm so far back in the closet I've just found a hat I lost in the 1960s.
Thanks for that post, whoever you are. I'm still laughing my ar*e off!!
I hate idiots who think their own jokes are funny, especially when they pretend someone else posted the comment, how pathetic.
Posted by: Me, here on 8:28am Mon 31 Mar 08
[quote][bold]T.Ruth[/bold] wrote:
[quote][bold]Me[/bold] wrote: [quote][bold]T.Ruth[/bold] wrote: You are quite right, I retract those comments. The reason I cannot bear to see naked female flesh is because I am a closet homosexual myself. In fact I'm so far back in the closet I've just found a hat I lost in the 1960s. [/quote] Thanks for that post, whoever you are. I'm still laughing my ar*e off!![/quote] I hate idiots who think their own jokes are funny, especially when they pretend someone else posted the comment, how pathetic.[/quote] And I hate idiots, full stop!
Especially ones who assume things incorrectly.
Your false accusation made me laugh even more - cheers!! lol!!
T.Ruth wrote:
Me wrote: T.Ruth wrote: You are quite right, I retract those comments. The reason I cannot bear to see naked female flesh is because I am a closet homosexual myself. In fact I'm so far back in the closet I've just found a hat I lost in the 1960s.
Thanks for that post, whoever you are. I'm still laughing my ar*e off!!
I hate idiots who think their own jokes are funny, especially when they pretend someone else posted the comment, how pathetic.
And I hate idiots, full stop!
Especially ones who assume things incorrectly.
Your false accusation made me laugh even more - cheers!! lol!!
Posted by: Me, here on 8:37am Mon 31 Mar 08
Oh yes, one more thing:
I notice you haven't responded to 'Delilah's' comment on the "Hundreds Fight Plans For Lapdancing Club" article.
Why is that, I wonder?
It's funny how you avoid any reasonable comments......!
Oh yes, one more thing:
I notice you haven't responded to 'Delilah's' comment on the "Hundreds Fight Plans For Lapdancing Club" article.
Why is that, I wonder?
It's funny how you avoid any reasonable comments......!
Posted by: Observer on 11:02am Mon 31 Mar 08
[quote][bold]Me[/bold] wrote:
[quote][bold]Observer[/bold] wrote: [quote][bold]Me[/bold] wrote: Come now, Observer, I have given you the courtesy of an answer. I am intrigued as to your thoughts on this.[/quote] Evolution according to Charles Darwin is driven by the “survival of the fittest” theory and in the animal kingdom as well as in the primate/homo sapien kingdom; this rule is no less important. You ask whether I consider people born blind, deaf, albino, missing limbs, red hair are suffering from genetic errors, my answer is probably yes they are, but there are a few exceptions, for example, deafness and blindness can be caused by a STD, whereas the albino is a genetic mutation that shows itself now and again, but is of no apparent advantage to the human race, red hair is a genetic trait which is fast disappearing for reasons not worth pursuing. Downs syndrome sufferers are unable to procreate and as in the animal kingdom any species that fails to procreate suffers extinction very quickly. Entire species have come and gone for a variety of reasons including natural disasters and environmental catastrophes, but if one excludes the latter, one is left with a consistent pattern throughout history of the survival of the fittest as the most dominant factor in all living matter whether it be animal or vegetable, so I conclude by saying that evolution proceeds on the back of genetic mutation, but only when that mutation creates a benefit that results in the animal or vegetable being able to out do all competitors amongst its own kind. [/quote] Very interesting, but I'm still not sure what point (if any) you are trying to make? You asked earlier whether it is appropriate to allow gay/lesbian people to have children, as it may pass on this genetic trait (or 'error',as you call it). What about heterosexual couples who were born infertile? Since they did not choose to be born that way, do you consider them to have a genetic 'error'? If so, would you suggest that they too should remain childless, for fear of passing on the 'error'? Also, you say that homosexuas do not benefit the growth of a species and that it is determined by the survival of the fittest. If that is completely true, then homosexual behaviour would have been 'evolved-out' (for want of a better phrase), yet it is as prevalent as ever. Perhaps it does give certain benefits to mankind....who knows? Again, it depends on what you consider to be an 'error'.[/quote] Mutations produce organisms with different genotypes, and those differences can result in different phenotypes. Many genetic mutations have a negligible effect on an organism's phenotype, health, and reproductive Mutations that do have an effect are often deleterious, but occasionally mutations arise that are beneficial in the current environmental context of the organism.
An evolutionary tree of organisms, constructed by comparison of several orthologous gene sequences
Population genetics research studies the distributions of these genetic differences within populations and how the distributions change over time Changes in the frequency of an allele in a population can be influenced by natural selection where a given allele's higher rate of survival and reproduction causes it to become more frequent in the population over time Genetic drift can also occur, where chance events lead to random changes in allele frequency.
Over many generations, the genomes of organisms can change, resulting in the phenomenon of evolution. Mutations and the selection for beneficial mutations can cause a species to evolve into forms that better survive their environment, a process called adaption. New species are formed through the process of speciation a process often caused by geographical separations that allow different populations to genetically diverge.
As sequences diverge and change during the process of evolution, these differences between sequences can be used as a molecular clock to calculate the evolutionary distance between them. Genetic comparisons are generally considered the most accurate method of characterizing the relatedness between species, an improvement over the sometimes deceptive comparison of phenotypic characteristics. The evolutionary distances between species can be combined to form evolutionary trees—these trees represent the common descent and divergence of species over time, although they cannot represent the transfer of genetic material between unrelated species (known as horizontal gene transfer and most common in bacteria).Mutations are more readily accepted by many scientists as natures method of ridding a species of impurities, this is best described by the evolutionary tree where the majority of mutations are simply deleterious genetic errors. Translated into layman’s terms, I don't concur with those who consciously encourage procreation of deleterious genetic mutations that will inevitably result in a inferior gene pool.
Me wrote:
Observer wrote: Me wrote: Come now, Observer, I have given you the courtesy of an answer. I am intrigued as to your thoughts on this.
Evolution according to Charles Darwin is driven by the “survival of the fittest” theory and in the animal kingdom as well as in the primate/homo sapien kingdom; this rule is no less important. You ask whether I consider people born blind, deaf, albino, missing limbs, red hair are suffering from genetic errors, my answer is probably yes they are, but there are a few exceptions, for example, deafness and blindness can be caused by a STD, whereas the albino is a genetic mutation that shows itself now and again, but is of no apparent advantage to the human race, red hair is a genetic trait which is fast disappearing for reasons not worth pursuing. Downs syndrome sufferers are unable to procreate and as in the animal kingdom any species that fails to procreate suffers extinction very quickly. Entire species have come and gone for a variety of reasons including natural disasters and environmental catastrophes, but if one excludes the latter, one is left with a consistent pattern throughout history of the survival of the fittest as the most dominant factor in all living matter whether it be animal or vegetable, so I conclude by saying that evolution proceeds on the back of genetic mutation, but only when that mutation creates a benefit that results in the animal or vegetable being able to out do all competitors amongst its own kind.
Very interesting, but I'm still not sure what point (if any) you are trying to make? You asked earlier whether it is appropriate to allow gay/lesbian people to have children, as it may pass on this genetic trait (or 'error',as you call it). What about heterosexual couples who were born infertile? Since they did not choose to be born that way, do you consider them to have a genetic 'error'? If so, would you suggest that they too should remain childless, for fear of passing on the 'error'? Also, you say that homosexuas do not benefit the growth of a species and that it is determined by the survival of the fittest. If that is completely true, then homosexual behaviour would have been 'evolved-out' (for want of a better phrase), yet it is as prevalent as ever. Perhaps it does give certain benefits to mankind....who knows? Again, it depends on what you consider to be an 'error'.
Mutations produce organisms with different genotypes, and those differences can result in different phenotypes. Many genetic mutations have a negligible effect on an organism's phenotype, health, and reproductive Mutations that do have an effect are often deleterious, but occasionally mutations arise that are beneficial in the current environmental context of the organism.
An evolutionary tree of organisms, constructed by comparison of several orthologous gene sequences
Population genetics research studies the distributions of these genetic differences within populations and how the distributions change over time Changes in the frequency of an allele in a population can be influenced by natural selection where a given allele's higher rate of survival and reproduction causes it to become more frequent in the population over time Genetic drift can also occur, where chance events lead to random changes in allele frequency.
Over many generations, the genomes of organisms can change, resulting in the phenomenon of evolution. Mutations and the selection for beneficial mutations can cause a species to evolve into forms that better survive their environment, a process called adaption. New species are formed through the process of speciation a process often caused by geographical separations that allow different populations to genetically diverge.
As sequences diverge and change during the process of evolution, these differences between sequences can be used as a molecular clock to calculate the evolutionary distance between them. Genetic comparisons are generally considered the most accurate method of characterizing the relatedness between species, an improvement over the sometimes deceptive comparison of phenotypic characteristics. The evolutionary distances between species can be combined to form evolutionary trees—these trees represent the common descent and divergence of species over time, although they cannot represent the transfer of genetic material between unrelated species (known as horizontal gene transfer and most common in bacteria).Mutations are more readily accepted by many scientists as natures method of ridding a species of impurities, this is best described by the evolutionary tree where the majority of mutations are simply deleterious genetic errors. Translated into layman’s terms, I don't concur with those who consciously encourage procreation of deleterious genetic mutations that will inevitably result in a inferior gene pool.
Posted by: Me, here on 11:13am Mon 31 Mar 08
Whilst I thank you for the essay on genetics, it falls upon your last paragraph to shed some light on the point you are making:
"Translated into layman’s terms, I don't concur with those who consciously encourage procreation of deleterious genetic mutations that will inevitably result in a inferior gene pool."
It all becomes clearer now.
Whilst I thank you for the essay on genetics, it falls upon your last paragraph to shed some light on the point you are making:
"Translated into layman’s terms, I don't concur with those who consciously
