what a load of old ****.

I agree lukewarm watery coffee is torure and we should be spending out time fighting this kind of crime to humanity. Thank god for the coffee demontrators, B right on.

"passer-bys" Passersby!

These demonstrators are unhinged. As far as i am concerned Omar should have been tried and executed by the USA. These people are a danger to the freedom of a once great country that has now been destroyed by the great unwashed lefty loonies. Roll on next election. I'm of for a nice cup of Starbucks coffee.

winkywonky wrote:
These demonstrators are unhinged. As far as i am concerned Omar should have been tried and executed by the USA. These people are a danger to the freedom of a once great country that has now been destroyed by the great unwashed lefty loonies. Roll on next election. I'm of for a nice cup of Starbucks coffee.

daamnn! that was gonna be MY line!

Ok winky, you buy the coffee, I'll buy the cookies!

OMG these people really are sad ! Get a grip !

What planet are these wasters on, do they have any real idea of life ?

ok so the labour just scored less than the BNP in a election just proves how out of touch these left wing loonies are ,

coffee anyone ?

I cant stand Starbucks coffee but to protest against them for supplying troops needs is idiotic,what about all the other firms that supply food and drink why single out Starbucks?

GET A LIFE..... YOU SAD SAD PEOPLE

What brilliant publicity Starbucks have got out of this!

Everyone knows about their new shop in St James's now!

I didnt know it was there, but now I go in there nearly every day!

The cakes are well expensive though. £1.75p is simply too much, even though they are so more-ish!

I was out of town today but i can picture the "protesters" the men all wearing sandals, and not an attractive female amongst them all "silly leftie idiots" Good on you uncle sam.

No one in Brighton has any real morals, it's a vacuous "lifestyle" city and activities like this are just rights-of-passages for cushy pseudo-liberals who have no real commitment to anything. If they did they would be somewhere else.

Still, I like to go to these protests to pick up innocent, naive girls. College age girls, that is. They are sooo stupid and gullible. It works a treat.

Paul wrote:
What planet are these wasters on, do they have any real idea of life ?

And so what is the "life" you lead?

Chances are you are a corporate stooge, burdened by children, stuck with one woman, working away and thinking that your life will begin with retirement, by when you will have missed it and wondered where it went.

Are these protesters outside the embassies of most African, Middle Eastern protesting?

These countries use torture.

Oh sorry, it is "trendy" and hip to be anti starbucks.

Oh, I am condoning the Cuban gaol. The terrorists should never be let out.

How do you know they're terrorists? They've never even been charged!

If I say you're a ****, that makes you a ****, yeah? Then I should just go round claiming anything I like and you lot have to listen because it must be true, just because someone said it!!!!! You idiots.

You're waking straight into a nazi state and you're loving it!

you're waking straight into a nazi state and you're loving it!

compared to what we have now ????

Couldnt understand all the comments about this coffee shop, so I had to go and try it today. My first thought was that Starbucks has pushed St James up the scale a bit, because I used to look upon the street as a bit of a dump.

You needed worry though - its really excellent. All nice new shiny and tastefull and by far the best coffee shop in Kemptown, although funnily enough I didnt have coffee I had a natural fruit juice!!

So enjoy it!!

Steve wrote:
So if the inmates are terrorists why have they yet not been charged? Seems reasonable to me. Why are they still there after so many years of torutre that has not provided the evidence to charge them in a legitimate legal system? And **** me, who'd have thought Shitbucks would have been there creaming it, eh? Why haven't they charged these criminals with the crimes they have seemingly committed? Hitler could have only dreamed of such circumstances. When they have finished with the muslims they will turn on you too. As sure as the sun rising each day.

You do live in some wierd rose tinted black and white fantasy land dont you.

The vast majority of these 'inmates' have been caught in possession of guns explosives, or in situations that clearly show them to be, or very likely to be terrorists, or at least hostile combatants if you prefer that term. Knowing that is what they are is one thing, but proving it in a legal sense can be quite different, despite their intentions being obvious to anyone.

Its exactly like seeing a load of yobs doing criminal damage and knowing who they are, but also knowing you couldnt prove it in legal terms.

Bearing in mind what is at stake here (the lives of our servicemen etc etc) the last thing anyone can afford to be is nievely soft and say 'Lets be seen as lovely people and let all these people go, despite knowing what they have done, and hope they dont do it again.'

Its obvious you dont have relatives serving in the forces or you would have a different view.

Get real for heavens sake.

So the Argus, a rag printed by a massive US corporation, is read by a bunch of blind right wing idiots. Well there's a surprise. Guantanamo is an affront to humanity, it's in breach of UN and international law and its very existence makes the world a more dangerous, not safer place. It's disgusting that some glossy corporate makes money out if torturers that would make the Argentinian Junta blanche. The war on terror is a lie, and you retentive suckers fell for it.

Thanks to Dick for his comments; I was starting to despair at the incredibly ill-informed, bigoted and downright stupid comments here.

Guantanamo Bay is a disgrace. Even some US military prosecutors have complained about so-called trials lined up for the prisoners. If memory serves me right, one of them resigned in disgust at the kangaroo courts - some prisoners will be tried with next to no evidence and/or will not be allowed to see what the evidence is against them.

Before people pontificate about Omar`s background and life maybe they could learn a few facts about his life - his family fled Gaddafi`s regime because his father was murdered by the regime; the family knew the Brighton area and had friends there. While he was in Guantanamo Bay the US allowed Libyan intelligence officers to interrogate him and threaten him. Imagine if that was you after they had murdered your father. The US says Omar was in Chechnya fighting alongside militants. That is the only 'evidence' they have against him. They say they have a video which proves it; unfortunately for them a British security expert has seen it and he said that it isn`t Omar, I know who that is and he`s dead! So that`s why Omar was incarcerated and lost the sight in one eye through torture. The war on terror is a disgusting farce and a lie. More innocent people have died from US actions since 9/11 than actully died on 9/11. Imagine if the Yorkshire police used that policy instead of good old-fashioned police work when they were trying to find the Yorkshire Ripper. They would have carpet bombed Sheffield and told the public, it`s alright, we`ve got him on the run, we don`t know where he is but we thought you`d like a bloody great firework show because you`re generally a thick bunch who can be told anything!

What about the Afghani who died in Guantanamo of cancer or a heart attack - I can`t remember which - earlier this year? He was in his 60s/70s(?) and had fought the Russian occupation, helped some men escape from a Taliban prison - don`t forget the US and Pakistan`s ISI helped the Taliban to power - who went on to serve in the current Afghan government. They could vouch for him but the US authorities didn`t want to know. So, there`s another innocent who died in custody without trial, totally innocent and someone who supported the struggle against the Taliban before it was fashionable for the Saudi dictatorship loving Bush regime to do so.

Seymour Hersh has a new piece in the New Yorker, reporting on groups supported by the US government which are carrying out terrorist attacks within Iran. One of the groups is alleged to have links with Al Qaeda!

Or, how about the man who was originally from Morocco, Ahmed Errachidi, who the US dubbed 'The General', claiming he was a member of Al Qaeda and in Afghanistan in July 2001? Er, not quite right, at that time he was working as a chef in the Westbury Hotel in London!

Found out more here.

http://www.reprieve.

org.uk/Guantanamobay

cases.htm

The US has allowed prisoners to be taken to secret prisons in Middle Eastern and, if I`m not mistaken, African countries. So, protesting outside this Starbuck`s is also a protest against those countries.

I had the honour of seeing Clive Stafford Smith and Omar Deghayes at the Brighton Festival. Dick, and who else is interested, which should be everyone,I highly recommend Stafford Smith`s book, 'Bad Men'; about his work and experiences at Guantanamo Bay. He met some US military personnel who had deep misgivings about the prison as well.

Well said Matt.Shut Guantanamo prison down.But first shoot the lot in it,and then shoot the lot they let out before!

People like this Matt person who obviously is dedicated to digging up any bit of debateable info and website links he can on this subject, make me sick. That might sound wierd bearing in mind some (some) of the things he comments on in his huge self indulgent essay contain an element of truth. But what I object to are people like him sitting well back from the reality of war (ie: peoples sons and daughters having parts and even most of their bodies shredded by improvised explosive devices, operated by terrorists) and then making these god like statements. War is evil, outrageous, disgusting, cruel, unfair, and requires members of the forces to do whatever is needed to prevent their comrades being killed or maimed. If a soldier, has a pregnant woman who has 5 small children point a gun at him, he would have no hesitation in putting a bullet in her head. Why? - because its war, and war is cruel. The whole idea is to stay alive and fight. It is for this reason that people thought to be terrorists HAVE to be locked up, and information obtained them that will save lives. Is Matt suggesting we should just ASK them about their arms and explosives caches, and if they are planning another attack tomorrow, then leave it at that and let them go?

The bottom line is, Guantanamo Bay is a disgrace. Its a disgracefull necessity of a disgracefull conflict. Remember the 'enemy' in Iraq dont wear uniforms or play by any rules, and will do absolutely anything to kill British and American forces including using their women and children as shields and even to carry bombs so dont go on about us (or at least the US) doing what is needed. Your time would be better spent offering support in some way, or even staying quiet.

Quote: "So, protesting outside this Starbuck`s is also a protest against those countries . . .

I had the honour of seeing Clive Stafford Smith and Omar Deghayes at the Brighton Festival . . ."

Well I have the honour of thinking you are an **** hole

"Shall we do another protest thing outside Starbucks on saturday - it'll be a right laf!"

"Yeah it was good, but I cant babe, im having my save the whales tattoo done in the morning"

"Oh thats a shame, you wave a mean banner you really do"

"Will Georgie go then, or is she going with you"

"Yeah Georgies having her nose pierced"

"Oh sounds cool - what about 'Stumpy', or is he going to the 'save the trees' protest outside the fencing factory"

"Yep he wouldnt miss that. He got arrested last week, he was well pleased"

"Oh well - better put it off till I get back from me hols then - we're going to the States"

"Hey sounds good - Ok hun, pop in for a coffee later"

"No one in Brighton has any real morals, it's a vacuous "lifestyle" city and activities like this are just rights-of-passages for cushy pseudo-liberals who have no real commitment to anything. If they did they would be somewhere else."

That's deep! Let me guess. You haven't seen any action downstairs in a while?

Thought so.

Dick Wadhurst wrote:
So the Argus, a rag printed by a massive US corporation, is read by a bunch of blind right wing idiots. Well there's a surprise. Guantanamo is an affront to humanity, it's in breach of UN and international law and its very existence makes the world a more dangerous, not safer place. It's disgusting that some glossy corporate makes money out if torturers that would make the Argentinian Junta blanche. The war on terror is a lie, and you retentive suckers fell for it.

I bet you can walk on water can't you? It must be wonderful being right all the time....

you're avin a laf wrote:
"Shall we do another protest thing outside Starbucks on saturday - it'll be a right laf!" "Yeah it was good, but I cant babe, im having my save the whales tattoo done in the morning" "Oh thats a shame, you wave a mean banner you really do" "Will Georgie go then, or is she going with you" "Yeah Georgies having her nose pierced" "Oh sounds cool - what about 'Stumpy', or is he going to the 'save the trees' protest outside the fencing factory" "Yep he wouldnt miss that. He got arrested last week, he was well pleased" "Oh well - better put it off till I get back from me hols then - we're going to the States" "Hey sounds good - Ok hun, pop in for a coffee later"

Hilarious! and sizes up the situation perfectly!

Careful, FRED. Shoot the lot in it could also mean the US personnel there as well, technically. The FBI might come and get you for incitement to kill Americans. You may mean the high-ranking woman who resigned from the US military and now corresponds with Omar because she knows he is completely innocent. If they do come I`ll defend you. ;-)

Ah, this loyalty counts person. Debateable? Easy to dismiss information if you just say it`s debateable and leave it at that. I`ve encountered that old one before. Huge and self indulgent, eh? You call it self indulgent because it is someone who disagrees with you. I don`t mind the length of anyone`s disagreement with me but you seem to. Huge? Too many paragraphs for you?

You seem to think that defending innocent people is being soft on people who want to bomb innocent people. Were you trying to imply that Omar had attacked US and British military?

'Is Matt suggesting we should just ASK them about their arms and explosives caches, and if they are planning another attack tomorrow, then leave it at that and let them go?' Anyone who believes I was saying that is deluded. Stop terrorism but don`t continue to imprison people who you know are totally innocent; which is what the US government has done. Stop terrorism by closing down the School of Americas as well.

Time would be better spent staying to a few facts. The whole Iraq conflict was started with lies.

Not too many paragraphs for you, I hope. I have the honour of being called an arsehole by someone like you. Better than talking out of it. You lost your thread, petered out and couldn`t come up with anything better than that.

Matt wrote:
Ah, this loyalty counts person. Debateable? Easy to dismiss information if you just say it`s debateable and leave it at that. I`ve encountered that old one before. Huge and self indulgent, eh? You call it self indulgent because it is someone who disagrees with you. I don`t mind the length of anyone`s disagreement with me but you seem to. Huge? Too many paragraphs for you? You seem to think that defending innocent people is being soft on people who want to bomb innocent people. Were you trying to imply that Omar had attacked US and British military? 'Is Matt suggesting we should just ASK them about their arms and explosives caches, and if they are planning another attack tomorrow, then leave it at that and let them go?' Anyone who believes I was saying that is deluded. Stop terrorism but don`t continue to imprison people who you know are totally innocent; which is what the US government has done. Stop terrorism by closing down the School of Americas as well. Time would be better spent staying to a few facts. The whole Iraq conflict was started with lies. Not too many paragraphs for you, I hope. I have the honour of being called an arsehole by someone like you. Better than talking out of it. You lost your thread, petered out and couldn`t come up with anything better than that.

you're thousands of miles away from the war, and yapping about things you've no right to talk about. mind your own **** business

If you were so 'honoured to see Omar' why dont you **** off to Iraq or somewhere. You'll find loads of people like him out there, a lot of them trying to blow up our troops.

You're a moron mate

I am rather inclined to agree with 'Ronnie'

Lefty numwits with hyperactive keyboards are a pain in the back side.

Angela wrote:
I am rather inclined to agree with \'Ronnie\' Lefty numwits with hyperactive keyboards are a pain in the back side.

it must have made his day meeting omar!

No, Adam. You are a true moron. I`ll bring myself down to your level with name-calling to try and make it easier for you to take in. He wasn`t anywhere in Iraq. Try looking at the facts. Go on, have a go. Mind my own business because my view is different to yours? I have no right? How moronic you sound. You`re ignorance must be blissful for you. You`re another one who disregards any facts that show you up.

Name calling, no engagement with the facts, Angela? People like you deserve to get a pain in the backside.

No Lucy, you got that wrong - no surprise there, then! - I didn`t meet Omar; I saw him at a 'talk' which was SOLD OUT. For everyone of you there are far more of us. Three responses in the space of 13 minutes looks like one person with multiple personalities and too much time on their hands. Still moronic, incredibly ill-informed, stupid and bigoted. Waste of space.

From reading this thread Matt, I think you have managed to anger a number of people.

While I respect anyones opinion, and have taken time to consider your views, I must say that you do radiate a very biased view of what has occured in what must be one of the most difficult and complex combat situations ever in which our (UK and US) troops are fighting an almost invisible enemey, who disguise themselves as civilians, and fight a terrorist war. Its pretty obvious that local police and personnel will identify many of these fighters, and they will end up being 'arrested' by security forces and locked up somewhere. You can hardly give them bail can you. So while it is perfectly clear to the joint forces that A B C D E F & G are terrorists, it may be (will be?) quite different when it comes to 'proving' it in a court. If you know anything about legal issues in court you will know this. The choices are few: 1.You can let them all go, and they start killing again. 2.You put them on trial in an independent court, with evidence that would be torn apart by the defence. 3.You keep them locked up (as prisoners of war?) for as long as it takes - which is in effect what has happened. Now, if the intention is to save lives (civilians plus UK & US troops) there is only one option - the last one. Sadly, by the law of averages, there will be mistakes ie: a non combatant may be locked up. But if you have a better answer, you should let the powers that be know what it is. Because people with much more military intelligence than you, dont know of it.

As 'Ms Loyalty Counts' pointed out very plainly in what I think was a very well worded and very logical posting (although the points made were almost ignored by you) the suggestion you make or imply that these 'suspected' terrorists should be released after a trial (which would mean hundreds of killers running loose with RPG's) is ludicrous beyond belief.

I believe it is the fact that you who plays no active part in a truly terrible and wicked conflict, can sit back in comfort and suggest things that will quite certainly cause the death of huge numbers of our troops, that has caused people to show aggression towards you on here.

While I consider myself a very quiet and rational person, I can say I quite understand how they find your sweeping views, and perhaps you, quite despicable. Some have used terms such as 'left wing liberal do gooder' to describe you. Personally, I think it goes much deeper than that, which is worrying.

No, David. I`ve made more than enough effort to 'take on' everything that has been written. It hasn`t been me who has ignored things written here. People have made slurs about Omar and ignored the facts. You don`t help military personnel by wasting time incarcerating people who you know there is no evidence to show that they carried out or helped acts of terrorism a long time after their innocence is proven. The US personnel who have resigned will tell you that. I haven`t used sweeping views, but accusing me of that when others have is getting a bit ludicrous. Condemn terrorism but don`t try and excuse the slurs on innocent people who were known to be innocent long before they were released. No use showing examples here; they`ll be ignored. Yet another implication that I don`t understand the danger to the troops as well. Rubbish. Funny how all these different 'people' start using the same terms. The usual classic way people don`t like someone being forthright when those people make sweeping and repulsive comments, use name-calling and don`t like it back. You`re probably quite despicable as well. I`m trying to be charitable by using the term 'probably'. Total waste of time. I will make sure I ignore your last sentence. Always smacks of desperation. I`ve seen it so many times before.

Blimey! These comments show clearly how the actions of the US in Guantanamo Bay and in the rest of the world generate conflict while eroding the conventions of informed and considered debate.

It may well be more helpful to stick to the facts.

Fact: it is our Government’s policy to call for the closure of Guantanamo and it has stated that the conditions there are unacceptable.

Fact: None of the British citizens or residents held in Guantanamo Bay have been charged with any offence whatsoever - even after 6 or 7 years in captivity

Fact: thanks to the investigations of their lawyers, and requests made by Gordon Brown and David Milliband, all of the British citizens and residents in Guantanamo Bay-except for one - have been released this year.

Fact: the last British resident in Guantanamo, Binyam Mohamed, has been systematically tortured for four years ; the tapes and photos of this torture are now in US possession, but they will not release them to the British Government

Fact: As a result of this torture, Binyam signed a confession

Fact: He is now awaiting trial at a US Military Commission in Guantanamo

Fact: Judge Susan Crawford, Convening Authority for Military Commissions at the Department of the Secretary for Defence in Washington DC, is on record as having publicly said ' No statements obtained by torture will be admissible' (Address to the University of Bucknell, 2007)

Fact: Binyam's Britsh lawyer is concerned at the US failure to release the tapes documenting his torture and has requested that David Milliband urge the US not to destroy this evidence of torture (British agents in Morocco have seen these tapes)

Fact:US Lieutenant Colonel, Yvonne Bradley, appointed to defend Binyam, has stated,
“ I have been charged with defending Mr. Mohamed to the best of my ability.
I cannot pretend that the US Military Commissions are fair."

Fact: If torture and trials without the protection of either US law or International law become accepted practice in the Western world, then the entire basis of our claim to be a civilised society is undermined.

Fact: Habeas Corpus, which was once Britain's shining beacon of civilised legal practice for the whole world, is now no more in this country.

Fact: now, more than at any time in our history, is the time to be utterly vigilant and to speak out against the erosion of our civil liberties and the due process of law. If literate, educated people like you do not act responsibly in this respect, things will change under our noses and it will be too late to put them right again in our lifetimes.

Matt wrote:
No, David. I`ve made more than enough effort to 'take on' everything that has been written. It hasn`t been me who has ignored things written here. People have made slurs about Omar and ignored the facts. You don`t help military personnel by wasting time incarcerating people who you know there is no evidence to show that they carried out or helped acts of terrorism a long time after their innocence is proven. The US personnel who have resigned will tell you that. I haven`t used sweeping views, but accusing me of that when others have is getting a bit ludicrous. Condemn terrorism but don`t try and excuse the slurs on innocent people who were known to be innocent long before they were released. No use showing examples here; they`ll be ignored. Yet another implication that I don`t understand the danger to the troops as well. Rubbish. Funny how all these different 'people' start using the same terms. The usual classic way people don`t like someone being forthright when those people make sweeping and repulsive comments, use name-calling and don`t like it back. You`re probably quite despicable as well. I`m trying to be charitable by using the term 'probably'. Total waste of time. I will make sure I ignore your last sentence. Always smacks of desperation. I`ve seen it so many times before.

AND YOUR POINT IS?

We have just found out that Asda (which is part of the American Wal-Mart group that also own Woolworths) supply food to the American Military. We are therefore now going to have a protest outside their store at the Marina, instead of Starbucks, starting 7am on saturday, so bring your banners girls - it should be a good laf! See you there!

Thankyou, Frank. Er, frankly put. Cheers.

Matt wrote:
Thankyou, Frank. Er, frankly put. Cheers.

I think you miss my point.

Fact: Most members of the British public do NOT want our forces put at more risk than need be.

Fact: It is clear you are willing to let this happen.

Fact: You are a woffling left wing do gooder.

Can someone explain to me what these 'completely innocent' members of society were doing in a middle east war zone at the time of their capture?

There could of course be a quite reasonable explanation, but at the moment I cant think of one.

Matt wrote:
Thankyou, Frank. Er, frankly put. Cheers.

I think the hole you are digging is getting deeper and deeper and deeper and deeper
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Ouch

Oh dear, 'frank'. First you sound like a lefty do-gooder, then change your position to try to win a shallow point. Ben Griffin and Major David J.R. Frakt are twice the men you are.

Frank - enjoyed your assemblage of facts there, though maybe you lost objectivity a bit at the end.

Were people at each other's throats in WW II, I wonder?

Georgie - uber protest guru wrote:
We have just found out that Asda (which is part of the American Wal-Mart group that also own Woolworths) supply food to the American Military. We are therefore now going to have a protest outside their store at the Marina, instead of Starbucks, starting 7am on saturday, so bring your banners girls - it should be a good laf! See you there!

you ****pots

stumpy, chrissy and me were at asda at half six till ten this morning and no one else turned up. you lot are useless. dont expect us to do any more of your stupid protests. you only went to starbuck coz its 5mins from you.

****