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Brighton residents oppose travellers' site plan
1:41pm Thursday 3rd July 2008
Comments (59)A permanent home for traveller and gypsy families is to be created in Brighton for the first time.
Up to 20 pitches could be made available on council land, believed to be the BMX site in Sheepcote Valley.
Brighton and Hove City Council confirmed it was investigating a number of different sites and said it had yet to make a final decision.
For the first time, the housing needs of gypsies and travellers have been included in the planning blueprint for the South East.
The number of pitches will need to more than double in the next eight years across Sussex to meet these requirements.
The South East England Regional Assembly (Seera) will be consulting people on the options. In Brighton and Hove there is currently one transit site, in Horsdean, near Patcham, which has 23 pitches.
The city will need to find space for as many as 20 new, permanent pitches, according to the plan.
The council said creating a permanent home for gypsies and travellers would cut the costs of clean-up operations from unauthorised encampments.
According to figures obtained under the Freedom of Information Act, £850,000 has been spent in the past three years on removing rubbish from illegal encampments and cleaning Horsdean.
The number of court cases to evict travellers has increased each year, from seven in 2004 up to 24 last year.
Stanmer Park, Wild Park and Sheepcote Valley have regularly been used by travellers.
Chris Whitwell, director of Brighton-based Friends, Families and Travellers, said: "We welcome any local authority which is seeking to meet the need in the area.
"The problem is there is discrimination and racism against gypsies and travellers. People will always object when a site is proposed."
Neighbours of the earmarked site have been distributing letters urging people to object to the proposals.
Lynn Bird, secretary of the Friends of Sheepcote Valley, said: "We have been promised that nothing would go there.
"People are fed up with Sheepcote being used for anything the council cannot put elsewhere."
A council spokeswoman said: "Any occupants of the permanent site would be expected to pay a fair rent in order to ensure that the maintenance and upkeep of the site does not cause cost to the local tax payers."
A special meeting will be held to decide on an appropriate site and planning permission will then be sought.
What do you think about the council's plans? Let us know below.
Your Say YourArgus
Josh, Newhaven says...
2:10pm Thu 3 Jul 08
censored, Brighton says...
2:13pm Thu 3 Jul 08
D, Brighton says...
2:34pm Thu 3 Jul 08
If these people were being judged because one or two of them gave the rest of them a bad name, that would be racism.
Unfortunatly with Travellers, the bad are the many with the good being the exceptional few.
If they are travellers they can not work legitimatly, no NI number, no permanent address, no bank account......NO JOB! Ask anyone sleeping rough on the seafront if they can get work.
So if they have to pay rent to get a pitch at this new site, where will the money come from???????
All I can say, is if this goes ahead, its time to invest in some good security equiplment and beef up the locks on your doors and windows!
Nick, Brighton says...
2:38pm Thu 3 Jul 08
All some people seem to care about is their small change tax. I work full time same as the majority but I couldn't care less about some poxy gypsy camp being built with public funds.
If you are that bothered why don't you kick off about the billions wasted in the NHS and on new airfcraft carriers we obviously don't need.
Some people on here are seriously dim as exemplified by their racist slants.
Grumps, LANCING says...
2:47pm Thu 3 Jul 08
With the credit crunch biting there may be vacant land there.
It will give Stormin' Norman and Lewes D C a new lease of life.
Jacks alrite, portslade says...
4:00pm Thu 3 Jul 08
What if it were the SAFHS "somalian association for housing somalians "WOULD YOU ALL PUT YOUR RACIST RANTS ON HERE???
Well as i said as long as they keep them in brighton and not portslade i don't see any problem.
censored, Brighton says...
4:03pm Thu 3 Jul 08
Racism has nothing to with it.
Unfortunatly with Travellers, the bad are the many with the good being the exceptional few.
Let's try that with a little substitution, shall we?
Unfortunately, with black people, the bad are the many and the good the exceptional few.
Or would you prefer:
Unfortunately, with women, the bad are the many and the good the exceptional few.
Or maybe you've met every single member of the travelling community in order to find out if the large majority are bad?
D, Brighton says...
4:41pm Thu 3 Jul 08
Perhaps after you have had to wipe the travellers excrement from your car window that was put there by a 6-8 year old girl under the guidance of her Mother, your opinion may change
Perhaps when its your business that has been robbed, or your half finished drive that you were dumb enough to pay for in full before it was finished, or maybe when you have been lamped by a group of traveller lads in a pub somewhere.......mayb
e then you will understand why so many people do not want travellers anywhere near them.
And lets not get into the firearms that are so readily available in a travellers campsite!!!
john smith, says...
5:07pm Thu 3 Jul 08
Nigel, Brighton says...
5:39pm Thu 3 Jul 08
d-day, Hove says...
5:49pm Thu 3 Jul 08
According to figures obtained under the Freedom of Information Act, £850,000 has been spent in the past three years on removing rubbish from illegal encampments and cleaning Horsdean
Think this sets out why people feel the way they do. If they want people to not object then clean up your own **** and people will think better of you.
youcantbeserious, Brighton says...
5:55pm Thu 3 Jul 08
Chris - we await your comments with interest! So enlighten us ... and also explain why they are such filty slobs that it costs £850k to clear up after them, when they enjoy daily rubbish collections anyway.
Daniel, Brighton says...
6:26pm Thu 3 Jul 08
Take it from me (who has been daft enough to use their services in the past) NEVER NEVER NEVER NEVER NEVER ever give work to Travellers. Its the kiss of death in every way possible.
not a good idea.., Brighton says...
6:29pm Thu 3 Jul 08
Where are the kids supposed to go now to ride?
A, whitehawk says...
6:37pm Thu 3 Jul 08
http://www.brighton-
hove.gov.uk/index.cf
m?request=c1001092
Also i would like to point out that the council is obliged under government legislation to provide traveller sites... It is important to realise and accept that people in minority groups should be provided for in society - if people cant accept this then they are being racist towards individual groups of people!
FRED, brighton says...
6:50pm Thu 3 Jul 08
shamen, hove says...
6:50pm Thu 3 Jul 08
idiots always going on about race, its nothing to do with race its their lack of law abiding behaviour.
there are enough sites for gypsies already, every non permit holders road in brighton is blighted by traveller vans, and the parks seafront etc. travellers should travel or buy a house like the rest of us have to. I am sure many young people born in this city would love a site they could live. huh bleeding political correct rubbish again. how much is this council wasting on sorting out every single minority groups whims.
youcantbeserious, Brighton says...
7:24pm Thu 3 Jul 08
never wrong dave, Brighton says...
7:32pm Thu 3 Jul 08
Gentleman Jim, Brighton says...
7:45pm Thu 3 Jul 08
Mikey, USA says...
7:46pm Thu 3 Jul 08
Hear, hear, youcantbeserious.
Charlene, Whitehawk says...
7:56pm Thu 3 Jul 08
Stawker, Peckham says...
8:09pm Thu 3 Jul 08
No, Way says...
8:14pm Thu 3 Jul 08
Charlene wrote:what, you mean a free house, benefits, tax free.... try being a white male who does not live on a council estate, works for a living, SCRAPES the pennies together... THEN you will know.
Travellers are lucky, they fit new labours 'protected groups' try living as a white working class Brit on Whitehawk, you will then know all about prejudice, trust me.
jim bob, brighton says...
8:14pm Thu 3 Jul 08
william of orange, Brighton says...
8:45pm Thu 3 Jul 08
What was it He said..."Those whom the Gods wish to destroy they first make mad..."
Why did we have to find out the figure under a feedom of information act? Why wasn't it freely available already? What else do I need the Freedom Of Information Act to find out about? Maybe the Argus should ask about the number of crimes that can be directly linked to travellers and compare that to the rest of the population as people on here assume that the "travellers" are responsible for crimes lets see if they are - now that would be interesting - but not one I suspect you will ever be allowed to know the answer to, not whilst this Government is in charge!!
Argus can you help and get this information? Do you want to help-I suspect not?
Charlene, Whitehawk says...
8:56pm Thu 3 Jul 08
No wrote:I work 40 hour week, pay rent, never claimed a pennie in my life, rent yes (not about to lose it to mortgage arrears and negative equity)and still people like you are prejudice, so my point has been proved, thanks.
Charlene wrote: Travellers are lucky, they fit new labours 'protected groups' try living as a white working class Brit on Whitehawk, you will then know all about prejudice, trust me.what, you mean a free house, benefits, tax free.... try being a white male who does not live on a council estate, works for a living, SCRAPES the pennies together... THEN you will know.
Patrick, Brighton says...
9:48pm Thu 3 Jul 08
Kite Flyer, Brighton & Hove says...
10:17pm Thu 3 Jul 08
Get rid of them before they foul the land where we have arranged, with permission, to hold our festival this weekend.
Patrick, Brighton says...
10:27pm Thu 3 Jul 08
sally Tucker Woodbury, taunton says...
11:05pm Thu 3 Jul 08
D wrote:Not sure you have a clue what you are on about you belive what you read. i am a Romani Gypsy i have a NI number i pay tax so do all my family do not class all Gypsies the same,you dont have a clue can you tell me why all UK PRISONS ARE FULL OF YOUR PEOPLE NOT GYPSIES,
Racism has nothing to with it. If these people were being judged because one or two of them gave the rest of them a bad name, that would be racism. Unfortunatly with Travellers, the bad are the many with the good being the exceptional few. If they are travellers they can not work legitimatly, no NI number, no permanent address, no bank account......NO JOB! Ask anyone sleeping rough on the seafront if they can get work. So if they have to pay rent to get a pitch at this new site, where will the money come from??????? All I can say, is if this goes ahead, its time to invest in some good security equiplment and beef up the locks on your doors and windows!
SALLY, TAUNTON says...
11:08pm Thu 3 Jul 08
Nick wrote:THANK YOU MY FREIND, YOU WOULD THINK THAY WOULD RANT AND RAVE ABOUT ALL THESE MP WHO GET ALL THE TAX PAYERS MONEY, YOU ARE RIGT IT IS RACIST.
Tax tax tax tax tax All some people seem to care about is their small change tax. I work full time same as the majority but I couldn't care less about some poxy gypsy camp being built with public funds. If you are that bothered why don't you kick off about the billions wasted in the NHS and on new airfcraft carriers we obviously don't need. Some people on here are seriously dim as exemplified by their racist slants.
SALLY, TAUNTON says...
11:11pm Thu 3 Jul 08
censored wrote:AND HOW MANY DO YOU KNOW?????
Racism has nothing to with it. Unfortunatly with Travellers, the bad are the many with the good being the exceptional few.Let\'s try that with a little substitution, shall we? Unfortunately, with black people, the bad are the many and the good the exceptional few. Or would you prefer: Unfortunately, with women, the bad are the many and the good the exceptional few. Or maybe you\'ve met every single member of the travelling community in order to find out if the large majority are bad?
Patrick, Brighton says...
11:18pm Thu 3 Jul 08
Patrick, Brighton says...
8:02am Fri 4 Jul 08
whogivesa, Brighton says...
8:50am Fri 4 Jul 08
No, Way says...
10:21am Fri 4 Jul 08
whogivesa wrote:aaahahahhaah you live in a DREAM WORLD! they'll trash it until the council gives up spending money on it, then they get a free site.
Everyone is complaining that travellers are freeloaders that don't pay their way in society. Easy solution. Make them pay to stay on the organised site. Work out what it costs to run it and keep it clean, and divide by the number of plots. Fix a weekly charge, and make them all pay. We all know they have plenty of money. £100 per week per caravan would seem reasonable. And then seize every vehicle that trespasses on private property.
and how will you actually get money from these gypos? you can't trace their income because they either steal it or only deal in cash. they are scum and don't deserve any money spent on them. when they start behaving, we'll start respecting.
pf, newhaven says...
3:38pm Fri 4 Jul 08
Arthur Bird, Brighton says...
4:04pm Fri 4 Jul 08
Another issue that I have been asked to raise with you is, that for many years Sheepcote Valley has been used by Travellers as a campsite, either unofficially or illegally or in some cases the councils officers due to welfare problems have placed them on the BMX site. The local population and users of Sheepcote Valley have had to put up with verbal abuse, threats of physical harm, the sight of both male and female Travellers using the footpaths as their Toilet facilities and of course then leaving the detritus of toilet paper and excrement behind for others (mainly Friends of Sheepcote Valley) to clean up, not to mention the usual fly tipping and dumping also carried out by the travellers.
The Council officers have always described these occupations as temporary the last group occupying the BMX site for six months, which in my opinion could not be described by anyone as Temporary. On enquiring with Councillor Morgan why this area seems to be singled out all the time for occupation by Travellers, Councillor Morgan informed me that the officials of Brighton Council at that time, that it was a democratically taken decision to make the BMX site a Temporary Tolerated Traveller Site, this I was informed was carried out after full consultation and discussion with the local people in this area. Having lived here for over twenty years I do not recall any such consultations taking place, so with this in mind I carried out a brief survey and asked the question of some of the residents of Wilson Ave. and Swanborough Drive.
Have you ever been consulted or taken part in any debate regarding making the BMX site of Sheepcote Valley into a Temporary Tolerated Travellers site, or for that matter any other form of Travellers site. The answer I received was an emphatic and resounding NO
So it would seem that not only was this decision taken on incorrect facts, i.e. that public debate and agreement had taken place, but that the decision was pushed through in a completely undemocratic way. I am informed that you are the person responsible for any possible suspension of the use of the BMX site as an accommodation site for Travellers .I therefore ask on behalf of the local residents of this area that you give this request to suspend the use of the BMX Site as a Temporary Accommodation site for travellers consideration and for it to be put in Public at the next Environment Cabinet Member meeting.
I also find it strange that the councillors have given the Bmx site as one of their chosen options as it does not comply with their own recently agreed Core Strategy document" which clearly states that any Traveller Sites should not be located on or near waste sites or sites of Particular Scientific Interest and as both the Area adjacent to the BMX Site and Sheepcote Valley in general fulfill both of these criteria, as both areas contain flora not found anywhere else in Sussex confirmed by the Councils own " Sheepcote Valley Interim Base-line Vascular Plant Survey 2006", on this basis alone the use by the Brighton-Hove Council of this area for a Travellers Accommodation Site should be withdrawn.
A.Bird
whogivesa, Brighton says...
6:05pm Fri 4 Jul 08
No wrote:You take it from them in advance. It's quite simple.
whogivesa wrote: Everyone is complaining that travellers are freeloaders that don't pay their way in society. Easy solution. Make them pay to stay on the organised site. Work out what it costs to run it and keep it clean, and divide by the number of plots. Fix a weekly charge, and make them all pay. We all know they have plenty of money. £100 per week per caravan would seem reasonable. And then seize every vehicle that trespasses on private property.aaahahahhaah you live in a DREAM WORLD! they'll trash it until the council gives up spending money on it, then they get a free site. and how will you actually get money from these gypos? you can't trace their income because they either steal it or only deal in cash. they are scum and don't deserve any money spent on them. when they start behaving, we'll start respecting.
Listen, I don't want them anywhere near me either, I was just putting up a point of view. I bet the council has made absolutely no arrangements to charge them anything. As f###ing, usual - we will have to pay for the scum one way or another.
Jayne, Brighton says...
7:34pm Fri 4 Jul 08
censored wrote:THIS HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH RACE. TRAVELLERS ARE NOT A RACE OF PEOPLE. If they are a race then you could say that about any 'group' of people that decide to do the same thing. Office workers would be the 'office worker race', or people that collect stamps would be the 'stamp collecting race'. Why should this bunch of lazy thieves that decide to pay nothing, mess up every place they stay in, thieve and not work be allowed to call themselves a race.
Racism has nothing to with it. Unfortunatly with Travellers, the bad are the many with the good being the exceptional few.Let's try that with a little substitution, shall we? Unfortunately, with black people, the bad are the many and the good the exceptional few. Or would you prefer: Unfortunately, with women, the bad are the many and the good the exceptional few. Or maybe you've met every single member of the travelling community in order to find out if the large majority are bad?
Trust me, whenever they set up camp near me people always get things stolen. I also remember going to my local at one of these times. The place was packed to the brim with travellers and it was a nightmare. I've never felt so intimidated in a pub before in my life.
patrick, Brighton says...
7:48pm Fri 4 Jul 08
nigel, says...
7:53pm Fri 4 Jul 08
Don, Brighton says...
9:53pm Fri 4 Jul 08
+++++++++++++++++
A bit of clarification is needed here.
The term Pikey (those often alledged to be Travellers) has become the accepted generic name for the dispicable type of people that are being talked about here. These are groups of people that often come from Southern Ireland in the summer to find work (because everyone over there knows about them and wont have anything to do with them), although many groups actually base themselves on the mainland all year round. There are also groups and familys based here that are of mainland origin, living the same lifestyle. It is these 'pikeys' that have by their own actions gained the horrific reputation we are discussing here, and believe me it is justified. They consider themselves to be outside the law in every area, have no scruples whatsoever, claim to be skilled tradesmen when in fact few if any have any skills whatsoever, other than being expert in bodging everything they do. They are known to pick on elderley and vulnerable people that can be convinced to have 'urgent' repairs done to their perfectly sound roof for £1000 or more. Instilling fear, making threats, and often using violence is all part of their business ethos.
Now this is the important bit. These are not Romany or Gypsy people. The Gypsy and Romany people have a history going back many many years, and while they have their own langauage and customs, they should not in any way be compared to the Pikeys described earlier, who are simply the scum of the earth. It is enivitable that Travelling people, good and bad are all thought of in the same light, because the bulk of these people are Pikeys, where as very few are true Gipsys.
It should be said that in general, Gipsys hate the pikeys and everything they represent (ie driveways that
sink under the weight of anything bigger than a mini, and cause rain water to wreck the foundations of your house etc etc etc etc) and they certainly hate being thought of as pikeys, because they are not.
So heed the warning sent round by the council recently concerning 'cold canvassing rogue traders' and find proper local trademen with offices and a reputation.
NO PROPER TRADESMAN will knock on your door saying 'ello luv we're doing a spot of work for the council and got some tarmac left - do you want yer pathway done nice and cheap'
If anyone even vaguely like that knocks on your door, politely say no, lock the door, and phone the police.
BE WARNED.
Patrick, Brighton says...
10:00pm Fri 4 Jul 08
nigel wrote:Dont talke rubbish. Sinse when has not geting on wit the neaburs bean racism? You sound like an idiot Nigel.
Does it mean that all those travellers around the Preston Park area will move to the official site?!!Oh yes I forgot the different types of travellers don't get on. It seems OK for them to operate their own form of racism.
patrick, Brighton says...
10:08pm Fri 4 Jul 08
Alex, Hove says...
10:56pm Fri 4 Jul 08
patrick wrote:You've put more posts on here than anyone. Anyway, you are boring. And you certainly arent a pikey, you are just a wind up. Probably an 18yo stoodent. Go away and have a wash.
Why dont som of you middel class labouer voting tree hugers come down and talke to us insted of slagging us off on here?
"Hop yuorr ard driv krasches"
hahahahaha
Patrick, Brighton says...
11:22pm Fri 4 Jul 08
Graham, Hove says...
11:41pm Fri 4 Jul 08
Alex wrote:I don't particularly like the way you are bullying this man with your education. If you actually read what he has written (albeit badly) he makes some valid points. Whether or not he is a traveller doesn't necessarily make any difference. The question is, would you actually respond to him in the same way if you believed he was a "pikey" as you call him? And have any of you got the balls to actually do as he suggests and go and meet with them to express your discontentment, or are you all spineless?
patrick wrote: Why dont som of you middel class labouer voting tree hugers come down and talke to us insted of slagging us off on here?You\'ve put more posts on here than anyone. Anyway, you are boring. And you certainly arent a pikey, you are just a wind up. Probably an 18yo stoodent. Go away and have a wash. \"Hop yuorr ard driv krasches\" hahahahaha
Angela, Hove says...
1:20am Sat 5 Jul 08
Graham wrote:You **** head - we will nominate you to go to the next illegal pikey encampment and explain our feelings and tell them to **** off
Alex wrote:I don't particularly like the way you are bullying this man with your education. If you actually read what he has written (albeit badly) he makes some valid points. Whether or not he is a traveller doesn't necessarily make any difference. The question is, would you actually respond to him in the same way if you believed he was a "pikey" as you call him? And have any of you got the balls to actually do as he suggests and go and meet with them to express your discontentment, or are you all spineless?patrick wrote: Why dont som of you middel class labouer voting tree hugers come down and talke to us insted of slagging us off on here?You\'ve put more posts on here than anyone. Anyway, you are boring. And you certainly arent a pikey, you are just a wind up. Probably an 18yo stoodent. Go away and have a wash. \"Hop yuorr ard driv krasches\" hahahahaha
What a nit wit you are
Alexia, Hove says...
1:24am Sat 5 Jul 08
Patrick wrote:If the coat fits, wear it.
Thats only becose the argus deleeted a load off messarges off this morning and left mine on. Your right im not a pikey cos im a traveler now go and get **** Alex befour I hunt you down.
anti pikey, east brighton says...
3:49am Sat 5 Jul 08
they don't need a permanent site to wreak their filth & havoc a best fit option would be arrows
directing the b*******s out of Brighton & to anywhere
Robert, Brighton says...
10:05pm Sat 5 Jul 08
A load of pikeys were going round earlier today selling drugs. Hardly suprising because everytime you hear of the police raiding their encampments, they always find drugs
Im not joking
KemptownDaz, Kemptown says...
9:39am Sun 6 Jul 08
WIll they be selling knock off copies of snatch?
Terry, Manchester says...
11:55pm Sun 6 Jul 08
KemptownDaz wrote:
Burn them all, that\'s what I say WIll they be selling knock off copies of snatch?
hard, says...
2:01pm Thu 3 Jul 08