The ArgusIs it the end for Mr & Mrs? (From The Argus)

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Proposal to scrap Mr & Mrs from Brighton and Hove council forms

The Argus: Brighton and Hove City Council’s deputy leader Phelim MacCafferty Brighton and Hove City Council’s deputy leader Phelim MacCafferty

Citizens of Brighton and Hove may no longer be called Mr or Mrs under new plans.

All titles could be scrapped from official council forms and paperwork after transgender activists complained the names forced people to choose between genders.

The proposal, which has the backing of Brighton and Hove City Council’s deputy leader Phelim MacCafferty, has been branded “utterly ludicrous” by an opposition councillor.

It comes following an investigation by the council into the lives of the transgender community in the city.

The scrutiny panel is set to put forward a number of recommendations, including the scrapping of Mr and Mrs, to the council for approval in December.

See the report on Brighton and Hove City Council's website.

Coun MacCafferty, who chairs the panel, suggested calling people by their titles on official forms was “completely useless”.

He said: “Trans people aren’t necessarily male or female and sometimes they don’t want to be defined by their gender.

“Putting Mr and Mrs on a form is completely useless. This is an issue that concerns most institutions from banks to mobile phone companies.

“Why is Mr on my debit card, for instance? I don’t understand why it’s there.

“We should at least examine the issue and we will have the recommendations early next month.”

Coun MacCafferty said the change would have to be “done sensitively” and promised the council would “make sure the population is with us” before any change was made.

Gender neutral

Steph Scott, an LGBT activist who defines herself as ‘genderqueer’ – neither male nor female – described the titles Mr and Mrs as “extremely outdated”.

She said: “Being called Mr or Mrs forces me to choose between genders.

“It’s assuming people live in a binary world where you’re either one thing or another and it pigeonholes people.

“I think it’s a good idea to expand across the city because it’s about getting people to be aware that gender isn’t just male or female.”

The activist said Brighton and Hove City Council had already started addressing people by the gender-neutral title 'Mx' on their tax forms.

But Dawn Barnett, Conservative councillor for Hangleton and Knoll, said: “It’s completely ludicrous and shows a complete lack of respect.

“How are they going to address letters properly? This is just political correctness gone too far.”

The Trans Equality Scrutiny Panel was set up to examine issues affecting transgendered people’s safety, welfare and job opportunities.

It includes chair Coun MacCafferty, Conservative councillor Denise Cobb and Labour councillor Warren Morgan, alongside co-optees Jay Stewart and Michelle Ross.

The panel visited support groups across the city in July to hear about the issues facing the trans community and will present a set of recommendations to the council in December.

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Comments (185)

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12:48pm Thu 25 Oct 12

Cyclic says...

Perhaps "Comrade" would be better for all. Then we could get rid of all the titles such as Councellor, Sir, lady, Doctor, Reverend, Highness, Prince(ess). I personally wish to be Gender, class, Family and species neutral and therefore wish to be called "Snirk" although this does pigeonhole me as I use the alphabet.
Perhaps "Comrade" would be better for all. Then we could get rid of all the titles such as Councellor, Sir, lady, Doctor, Reverend, Highness, Prince(ess). I personally wish to be Gender, class, Family and species neutral and therefore wish to be called "Snirk" although this does pigeonhole me as I use the alphabet. Cyclic
  • Score: 0

12:50pm Thu 25 Oct 12

Dealing with idiots says...

I don't mind as Jason Kitcat remembers to call me Sir.
I don't mind as Jason Kitcat remembers to call me Sir. Dealing with idiots
  • Score: 0

1:02pm Thu 25 Oct 12

jimbobmaginty says...

So yet again the Transgender/gay community getting their own way!

What about what the straight people want?

What happens if the married people want to be Mr & Mrs? I like being called Mr and my Wife likes to be called MRS.

Why should I be known by another title because some transgender can’t make up their mind if they want to be a woman or man?

I think an opposition group might be needed here! But we are straight so any comments we may have against this will probably fall on deaf ears! After all we don’t want to upset the Gay community!
So yet again the Transgender/gay community getting their own way! What about what the straight people want? What happens if the married people want to be Mr & Mrs? I like being called Mr and my Wife likes to be called MRS. Why should I be known by another title because some transgender can’t make up their mind if they want to be a woman or man? I think an opposition group might be needed here! But we are straight so any comments we may have against this will probably fall on deaf ears! After all we don’t want to upset the Gay community! jimbobmaginty
  • Score: -1

1:03pm Thu 25 Oct 12

bluemonday says...

do the lgbt sit in a room and wonder what ridiculous thing they can moan about this week,if they don't class themselves as anything maybe take a look at your birth certificate,that might give you a hint
do the lgbt sit in a room and wonder what ridiculous thing they can moan about this week,if they don't class themselves as anything maybe take a look at your birth certificate,that might give you a hint bluemonday
  • Score: -1

1:12pm Thu 25 Oct 12

jesss2012 says...

ah come on... its part of what living in brighton is all about. U gotta luv em for trying lol :) Personally I hate labels, especially my mad ones!!!
ah come on... its part of what living in brighton is all about. U gotta luv em for trying lol :) Personally I hate labels, especially my mad ones!!! jesss2012
  • Score: 0

1:14pm Thu 25 Oct 12

Wattsy17 says...

Maybe everyone could be addressed as LORD!
Maybe everyone could be addressed as LORD! Wattsy17
  • Score: 1

1:14pm Thu 25 Oct 12

rolivan says...

I would think that with a name like Phelim MacCafferty one doesnt need a title of Mr Mrs or Ms.Give them an inch and they want a yard.Why don't they all go off and build their Shangri La somewhere else and leave the rest of the City in Peace.
I would think that with a name like Phelim MacCafferty one doesnt need a title of Mr Mrs or Ms.Give them an inch and they want a yard.Why don't they all go off and build their Shangri La somewhere else and leave the rest of the City in Peace. rolivan
  • Score: 0

1:14pm Thu 25 Oct 12

championshipgull says...

Equal rights: Yes. Trying to make everyone the same. Totally bizarre.
Equal rights: Yes. Trying to make everyone the same. Totally bizarre. championshipgull
  • Score: -1

1:15pm Thu 25 Oct 12

Poccypoc says...

Our money being spent on this? Listen, you can be gay, straight, black, white, girl, boy, man, woman, short, tall, fat, thin, able-bodied, disabled, ginger, blonde, brunette, I don't mind. Just don't meddle is silly stuff like this.

Sorry, what was that? No, it IS silly.
Our money being spent on this? Listen, you can be gay, straight, black, white, girl, boy, man, woman, short, tall, fat, thin, able-bodied, disabled, ginger, blonde, brunette, I don't mind. Just don't meddle is silly stuff like this. Sorry, what was that? No, it IS silly. Poccypoc
  • Score: -1

1:16pm Thu 25 Oct 12

Jimmy Stewart's Imaginary Rabbit says...

What about those of us who want to be addressed as Mr or Mrs on forms etc and see our title as an integral part of our names. Don't we have any rights?
What about those of us who want to be addressed as Mr or Mrs on forms etc and see our title as an integral part of our names. Don't we have any rights? Jimmy Stewart's Imaginary Rabbit
  • Score: -1

1:17pm Thu 25 Oct 12

Number Six says...

I am Mr. and my wife is Mrs. Nothing can change that
I am Mr. and my wife is Mrs. Nothing can change that Number Six
  • Score: 0

1:19pm Thu 25 Oct 12

Jacobdog says...

Don't make the mistake of blaming the gay community for the views of some transgender activists; I've never heard any gay people mention this issue before, this is a green party idea based on misplaced ideas of what equality means. In fact most transgender people identify as male or female so I'm not sure there will be much support there either.

The equalities lobbysists do so much good work so its a shame that it gets damaged by trivial obsessions by politicians. If the council feels strongly about transgender equality then maybe they could take more action to support people going through the difficult process of finding their identity and living with prejudice.

Proposals like this make no improvement to the lives of transgender people and only make the greens look stupid. Perhaps making the 'title' box in questionnaires optional would achieve the same aim without alienating the people they need to vote for them.
Don't make the mistake of blaming the gay community for the views of some transgender activists; I've never heard any gay people mention this issue before, this is a green party idea based on misplaced ideas of what equality means. In fact most transgender people identify as male or female so I'm not sure there will be much support there either. The equalities lobbysists do so much good work so its a shame that it gets damaged by trivial obsessions by politicians. If the council feels strongly about transgender equality then maybe they could take more action to support people going through the difficult process of finding their identity and living with prejudice. Proposals like this make no improvement to the lives of transgender people and only make the greens look stupid. Perhaps making the 'title' box in questionnaires optional would achieve the same aim without alienating the people they need to vote for them. Jacobdog
  • Score: 0

1:23pm Thu 25 Oct 12

Fight_Back says...

I hate being called Mr Back. I have no problem with being addressed as Dear Fight. As one of my councillors that has assisted me in the past I have the up most respect for Dawn Barnett but she's making a mountain out of a molehill with this. What purpose does Mr, Ms, Miss or Mrs serve ?
I hate being called Mr Back. I have no problem with being addressed as Dear Fight. As one of my councillors that has assisted me in the past I have the up most respect for Dawn Barnett but she's making a mountain out of a molehill with this. What purpose does Mr, Ms, Miss or Mrs serve ? Fight_Back
  • Score: 0

1:30pm Thu 25 Oct 12

Maxwell's Ghost says...

When a lady has Mrs in front of their name, you usually know they are up for a bit of extra marital.
If they are Miss, they have the freedom to be a bit more choosy.
Also, I know employers who use the female title to decide whether to employ a female candidate.
When a lady has Mrs in front of their name, you usually know they are up for a bit of extra marital. If they are Miss, they have the freedom to be a bit more choosy. Also, I know employers who use the female title to decide whether to employ a female candidate. Maxwell's Ghost
  • Score: 0

1:32pm Thu 25 Oct 12

juleshove says...

Gender neutral ! is this a joke.
Gender neutral ! is this a joke. juleshove
  • Score: -1

1:33pm Thu 25 Oct 12

gmgc81 says...

I have LGBT friends, but this idea is cretinous! I thought that was why there was an "Other" field present on most forms: to allow folks with a different title to mark it there. Of course there could be a "None" tick box too, but removing them altogether is quite disrespectful to normal folks.
I have LGBT friends, but this idea is cretinous! I thought that was why there was an "Other" field present on most forms: to allow folks with a different title to mark it there. Of course there could be a "None" tick box too, but removing them altogether is quite disrespectful to normal folks. gmgc81
  • Score: -1

1:34pm Thu 25 Oct 12

ruberducker says...

why cant the "normal" people of brighton be left alone,as brightonions we have allways been exepted community to all walks of life,the pc loooony melons are now taking the preverble urine.
if you want to change your self from a martin into a mary"thats fine your choice"but also "your problem"why do hetrosexual's have to bow down to being all pc so you dont get upset.all you here now is i cant get on in life becuase im black,disabled,gay etc what about the "normal people".
why cant the "normal" people of brighton be left alone,as brightonions we have allways been exepted community to all walks of life,the pc loooony melons are now taking the preverble urine. if you want to change your self from a martin into a mary"thats fine your choice"but also "your problem"why do hetrosexual's have to bow down to being all pc so you dont get upset.all you here now is i cant get on in life becuase im black,disabled,gay etc what about the "normal people". ruberducker
  • Score: -1

1:34pm Thu 25 Oct 12

juleshove says...

Another very stupid idea from the greens . How can these people be elected !
Another very stupid idea from the greens . How can these people be elected ! juleshove
  • Score: 0

1:34pm Thu 25 Oct 12

Duckorange says...

Rear-Admiral, and don't you ever forget it.
Rear-Admiral, and don't you ever forget it. Duckorange
  • Score: 0

1:35pm Thu 25 Oct 12

Artificial says...

A gender neutral option should be offered for those who want it, in addition to Mr, Mrs, Miss etc. Assuming everyone wants to be gender neutral is unfair.
A gender neutral option should be offered for those who want it, in addition to Mr, Mrs, Miss etc. Assuming everyone wants to be gender neutral is unfair. Artificial
  • Score: 1

1:37pm Thu 25 Oct 12

Malibu1963 says...

When I was growing up we had three people in the house with the same initial 'A'. If no titles were used who would open mail addressed to 'A'? Mrs A, Mr A or Miss A? Confidentiality would no longer exist, it is an integral part of who we are and it is all part of having good manners, something seriously lacking in today's society!!
When I was growing up we had three people in the house with the same initial 'A'. If no titles were used who would open mail addressed to 'A'? Mrs A, Mr A or Miss A? Confidentiality would no longer exist, it is an integral part of who we are and it is all part of having good manners, something seriously lacking in today's society!! Malibu1963
  • Score: 0

1:39pm Thu 25 Oct 12

Martha Gunn says...

From the same people that brought you Speciesism and Solar Palm Trees. The Green Party are fast losing their grip.
From the same people that brought you Speciesism and Solar Palm Trees. The Green Party are fast losing their grip. Martha Gunn
  • Score: 0

1:40pm Thu 25 Oct 12

lillylou says...

So what will one call there teacher ?
So what will one call there teacher ? lillylou
  • Score: 0

1:41pm Thu 25 Oct 12

mnairb says...

More money-wasting lunacy from the green clowns! Who let them out of their boxes? As my dear old late dad used to say "there's more lunatics outside of asylums than are in them!"
More money-wasting lunacy from the green clowns! Who let them out of their boxes? As my dear old late dad used to say "there's more lunatics outside of asylums than are in them!" mnairb
  • Score: 0

1:42pm Thu 25 Oct 12

gusset snatcher says...

And this from phelim mccafferty, we used to say was a scottish homo at school. they've really shown themselves to be absolute loonies on this one, an end to Mr and Mrs on the basis of a tiny minority, probably less than 1% that aren't sure whether they're a man or woman..... it's beyond laughable....... how are these people in power
And this from phelim mccafferty, we used to say was a scottish homo at school. they've really shown themselves to be absolute loonies on this one, an end to Mr and Mrs on the basis of a tiny minority, probably less than 1% that aren't sure whether they're a man or woman..... it's beyond laughable....... how are these people in power gusset snatcher
  • Score: -1

1:43pm Thu 25 Oct 12

Sara2012 says...

I am female and proud of it! I like being known as Ms as it does not tell anyone if I am married or not. My partner likes being a Mr - he's male and proud of that. Add another option to the list - but do not assume we are all in agreement with gender neutral titles!
I am female and proud of it! I like being known as Ms as it does not tell anyone if I am married or not. My partner likes being a Mr - he's male and proud of that. Add another option to the list - but do not assume we are all in agreement with gender neutral titles! Sara2012
  • Score: 0

1:45pm Thu 25 Oct 12

BornInBrighton1968 says...

juleshove wrote:
Another very stupid idea from the greens . How can these people be elected !
You can blame students for that...
[quote][p][bold]juleshove[/bold] wrote: Another very stupid idea from the greens . How can these people be elected ![/p][/quote]You can blame students for that... BornInBrighton1968
  • Score: 0

1:58pm Thu 25 Oct 12

BlackRocker says...

lillylou wrote:
So what will one call there teacher ?
What a shame that yours didn't teach you the difference between 'there' and 'their'.
[quote][p][bold]lillylou[/bold] wrote: So what will one call there teacher ?[/p][/quote]What a shame that yours didn't teach you the difference between 'there' and 'their'. BlackRocker
  • Score: 0

2:01pm Thu 25 Oct 12

jesss2012 says...

Blimey what you all getting your knickers (or pants or underwear) in a twist over. Its not gonna happen is it and if it does only the council will adopt it. Is a title really that important to people. And taking a stance against the whole transgender or gay community is hardly an intelligent or necessary reaction. Just my opinion. I'm a lesbian. I'm still married some call me Mrs, some call me Ms most call me idiot. stop stressing the little things huh :)
Blimey what you all getting your knickers (or pants or underwear) in a twist over. Its not gonna happen is it and if it does only the council will adopt it. Is a title really that important to people. And taking a stance against the whole transgender or gay community is hardly an intelligent or necessary reaction. Just my opinion. I'm a lesbian. I'm still married some call me Mrs, some call me Ms most call me idiot. stop stressing the little things huh :) jesss2012
  • Score: 0

2:03pm Thu 25 Oct 12

jimbobmaginty says...

Jimmy Stewart's Imaginary Rabbit wrote:
What about those of us who want to be addressed as Mr or Mrs on forms etc and see our title as an integral part of our names. Don't we have any rights?
Nope! Which makes me think someone needs to stand up and challenge this decision!
[quote][p][bold]Jimmy Stewart's Imaginary Rabbit[/bold] wrote: What about those of us who want to be addressed as Mr or Mrs on forms etc and see our title as an integral part of our names. Don't we have any rights?[/p][/quote]Nope! Which makes me think someone needs to stand up and challenge this decision! jimbobmaginty
  • Score: 0

2:10pm Thu 25 Oct 12

wander1er says...

Simple, click other title like most forms have ie rev' Dr etc and type Mr & Mr
etc

sorry but Mr, Mrs, Dr, Rev, Miss, Ms, is your title. Or should we scrap it and put your national insurance number as our titles and become more of a number than we already are. Come on click other and add you title..
Simple, click other title like most forms have ie rev' Dr etc and type Mr & Mr etc sorry but Mr, Mrs, Dr, Rev, Miss, Ms, is your title. Or should we scrap it and put your national insurance number as our titles and become more of a number than we already are. Come on click other and add you title.. wander1er
  • Score: 0

2:12pm Thu 25 Oct 12

BornInBrighton1968 says...

This is why we can't have nice things...
This is why we can't have nice things... BornInBrighton1968
  • Score: -1

2:14pm Thu 25 Oct 12

Vigilia says...

For Heaven's sake remove my this article before the City becomes the laughing stock of the nation.
For Heaven's sake remove my this article before the City becomes the laughing stock of the nation. Vigilia
  • Score: -1

2:16pm Thu 25 Oct 12

Hovelady says...

If this truly IS a genuine issue, can't people with a problem with being 'pigeon-holed', just simply NOT tick any of the offending boxes?

and do we have to come up with new, more inclusive words to replace the now out-dated and clearly un-pc descriptions such as man, woman, lady, gentleman, him, her, and so on.......?
If this truly IS a genuine issue, can't people with a problem with being 'pigeon-holed', just simply NOT tick any of the offending boxes? and do we have to come up with new, more inclusive words to replace the now out-dated and clearly un-pc descriptions such as man, woman, lady, gentleman, him, her, and so on.......? Hovelady
  • Score: 0

2:22pm Thu 25 Oct 12

mnairb says...

How about 'being' as human is sexist.
How about 'being' as human is sexist. mnairb
  • Score: -1

2:22pm Thu 25 Oct 12

John Steed says...

what with given names instead of cristian names, family name instead of surname, you can be irish ,welsh, scottish but not english only british or other. it only had to be a short wait for this sort of thing to appear, best treated with the contempt it deserves
what with given names instead of cristian names, family name instead of surname, you can be irish ,welsh, scottish but not english only british or other. it only had to be a short wait for this sort of thing to appear, best treated with the contempt it deserves John Steed
  • Score: 0

2:27pm Thu 25 Oct 12

kkj says...

Assuming that council forms are filled in without titles, how then are council staff going to address us in person? Calling me by my first name is a privilege reserved for those whom I choose to allow that privilege.

Call me just by my surname and you'll just be ignored.

Similarly, if I receive a letter addressed to Mx kkj, I will assume that its for someone else.
Assuming that council forms are filled in without titles, how then are council staff going to address us in person? Calling me by my first name is a privilege reserved for those whom I choose to allow that privilege. Call me just by my surname and you'll just be ignored. Similarly, if I receive a letter addressed to Mx kkj, I will assume that its for someone else. kkj
  • Score: 0

2:31pm Thu 25 Oct 12

brightonian57 says...

If I get a letter from the council with no title on it, I will be returning it claiming, 'No one of this name lives here'.
If I get a letter from the council with no title on it, I will be returning it claiming, 'No one of this name lives here'. brightonian57
  • Score: 0

2:32pm Thu 25 Oct 12

Crystal Ball says...

Yet another case of the tail trying to wag the dog. Stop your whining and get on with your own lives rather than attempting to tell everyone how to live theirs.
Yet another case of the tail trying to wag the dog. Stop your whining and get on with your own lives rather than attempting to tell everyone how to live theirs. Crystal Ball
  • Score: -1

2:34pm Thu 25 Oct 12

BiggerH says...

Maxwell's Ghost wrote:
When a lady has Mrs in front of their name, you usually know they are up for a bit of extra marital.
If they are Miss, they have the freedom to be a bit more choosy.
Also, I know employers who use the female title to decide whether to employ a female candidate.
But if they're a Ms, then best stay away, as a punch in the mouth often offends
[quote][p][bold]Maxwell's Ghost[/bold] wrote: When a lady has Mrs in front of their name, you usually know they are up for a bit of extra marital. If they are Miss, they have the freedom to be a bit more choosy. Also, I know employers who use the female title to decide whether to employ a female candidate.[/p][/quote]But if they're a Ms, then best stay away, as a punch in the mouth often offends BiggerH
  • Score: 0

2:37pm Thu 25 Oct 12

ruberducker says...

kkj wrote:
Assuming that council forms are filled in without titles, how then are council staff going to address us in person? Calling me by my first name is a privilege reserved for those whom I choose to allow that privilege.

Call me just by my surname and you'll just be ignored.

Similarly, if I receive a letter addressed to Mx kkj, I will assume that its for someone else.
im sure that will go down well with the council tax bill..lol
[quote][p][bold]kkj[/bold] wrote: Assuming that council forms are filled in without titles, how then are council staff going to address us in person? Calling me by my first name is a privilege reserved for those whom I choose to allow that privilege. Call me just by my surname and you'll just be ignored. Similarly, if I receive a letter addressed to Mx kkj, I will assume that its for someone else.[/p][/quote]im sure that will go down well with the council tax bill..lol ruberducker
  • Score: 0

2:51pm Thu 25 Oct 12

fatso says...

Let's waste more money on something unnecessary. And while you're at it why not investigate how much of our money is wasted by allowing council staff to work, and get election pay for, polling station work when they are not required to take a day off. I wish my employer would treat me as being at work whilst I get paid for working another job!
Let's waste more money on something unnecessary. And while you're at it why not investigate how much of our money is wasted by allowing council staff to work, and get election pay for, polling station work when they are not required to take a day off. I wish my employer would treat me as being at work whilst I get paid for working another job! fatso
  • Score: 0

2:59pm Thu 25 Oct 12

Athena says...

Vigilia wrote:
For Heaven's sake remove my this article before the City becomes the laughing stock of the nation.
Too late. It's in the Daily Mail so it's gone National. (Still, it might see the end of the Green Party in the City.)
[quote][p][bold]Vigilia[/bold] wrote: For Heaven's sake remove my this article before the City becomes the laughing stock of the nation.[/p][/quote]Too late. It's in the Daily Mail so it's gone National. (Still, it might see the end of the Green Party in the City.) Athena
  • Score: 0

3:03pm Thu 25 Oct 12

Charismatic Andrew says...

jesss2012 wrote:
Blimey what you all getting your knickers (or pants or underwear) in a twist over. Its not gonna happen is it and if it does only the council will adopt it. Is a title really that important to people. And taking a stance against the whole transgender or gay community is hardly an intelligent or necessary reaction. Just my opinion. I'm a lesbian. I'm still married some call me Mrs, some call me Ms most call me idiot. stop stressing the little things huh :)
No, I don't think a title is really important to people. I don't care what people call me.

But what I do object to is my Council Tax being wasted on issues like this when there are so many other more important things going on. It's almost impossible to get a response from Council Officials as it is without them having to waste time on this sort of garbage.
[quote][p][bold]jesss2012[/bold] wrote: Blimey what you all getting your knickers (or pants or underwear) in a twist over. Its not gonna happen is it and if it does only the council will adopt it. Is a title really that important to people. And taking a stance against the whole transgender or gay community is hardly an intelligent or necessary reaction. Just my opinion. I'm a lesbian. I'm still married some call me Mrs, some call me Ms most call me idiot. stop stressing the little things huh :)[/p][/quote]No, I don't think a title is really important to people. I don't care what people call me. But what I do object to is my Council Tax being wasted on issues like this when there are so many other more important things going on. It's almost impossible to get a response from Council Officials as it is without them having to waste time on this sort of garbage. Charismatic Andrew
  • Score: 0

3:08pm Thu 25 Oct 12

dhamallamafarmer says...

If these "meaow meaow meaow; I want special rights to express who I want to define myself as because mummy didn't give me enough hugs!" merchants want a gender neutral appelation here's an idea: go to university, get a PHd and become a doctor. Then no-one will know what you are and you will actually learn something! Two birds- one stone.
If these "meaow meaow meaow; I want special rights to express who I want to define myself as because mummy didn't give me enough hugs!" merchants want a gender neutral appelation here's an idea: go to university, get a PHd and become a doctor. Then no-one will know what you are and you will actually learn something! Two birds- one stone. dhamallamafarmer
  • Score: -1

3:10pm Thu 25 Oct 12

Gee Jay says...

This confirms it, the lunatics have been allowed to take over the asylum.
This is exactly the sort of thing that happens when people who have the vote,don't use it, and they excuse themselves by saying 'What difference will it make'
This confirms it, the lunatics have been allowed to take over the asylum. This is exactly the sort of thing that happens when people who have the vote,don't use it, and they excuse themselves by saying 'What difference will it make' Gee Jay
  • Score: -1

3:12pm Thu 25 Oct 12

Barry Trotter says...

I'd be offended if I wasn't addressed as Mr Trotter on these grounds.
I'd be offended if I wasn't addressed as Mr Trotter on these grounds. Barry Trotter
  • Score: 0

3:24pm Thu 25 Oct 12

TonyTony says...

Ho ho ho ho ho ho ho i laughed so much i wet my pants. What is The Trans Equality Scrutiny Panel exactly and where can i get one and how much does it cost.
Ho ho ho ho ho ho ho i laughed so much i wet my pants. What is The Trans Equality Scrutiny Panel exactly and where can i get one and how much does it cost. TonyTony
  • Score: -1

3:24pm Thu 25 Oct 12

deltaP says...

Fight_Back wrote:
I hate being called Mr Back. I have no problem with being addressed as Dear Fight. As one of my councillors that has assisted me in the past I have the up most respect for Dawn Barnett but she's making a mountain out of a molehill with this. What purpose does Mr, Ms, Miss or Mrs serve ?
The titles you refer to serve to distinguish those who wish to be distinguished, i.e the majority of the population. In fact, as we allegedly live in a democracy where majority opinion rules, there is no need to change anything.
[quote][p][bold]Fight_Back[/bold] wrote: I hate being called Mr Back. I have no problem with being addressed as Dear Fight. As one of my councillors that has assisted me in the past I have the up most respect for Dawn Barnett but she's making a mountain out of a molehill with this. What purpose does Mr, Ms, Miss or Mrs serve ?[/p][/quote]The titles you refer to serve to distinguish those who wish to be distinguished, i.e the majority of the population. In fact, as we allegedly live in a democracy where majority opinion rules, there is no need to change anything. deltaP
  • Score: 0

3:26pm Thu 25 Oct 12

still waiting says...

But, then why do councillors insist on being referred to as "Councillor"? Not an affectation, surely?
But, then why do councillors insist on being referred to as "Councillor"? Not an affectation, surely? still waiting
  • Score: 0

3:27pm Thu 25 Oct 12

hammerfan says...

Perhaps we could refer to the Greens as
'Mildew' or 'Gang of Greens'- Gangrene for short ( apologies for any sufferers!)
But I thought political correctness was a trendy left wing idea.
Perhaps we could refer to the Greens as 'Mildew' or 'Gang of Greens'- Gangrene for short ( apologies for any sufferers!) But I thought political correctness was a trendy left wing idea. hammerfan
  • Score: 0

3:28pm Thu 25 Oct 12

Fight_Back says...

John Steed wrote:
what with given names instead of cristian names, family name instead of surname, you can be irish ,welsh, scottish but not english only british or other. it only had to be a short wait for this sort of thing to appear, best treated with the contempt it deserves
Rubbish, any official form that requests you to select from Irish, Welsh or Scottish has English as an option. Care to point me in the direction of any form that says otherwise ?
[quote][p][bold]John Steed[/bold] wrote: what with given names instead of cristian names, family name instead of surname, you can be irish ,welsh, scottish but not english only british or other. it only had to be a short wait for this sort of thing to appear, best treated with the contempt it deserves[/p][/quote]Rubbish, any official form that requests you to select from Irish, Welsh or Scottish has English as an option. Care to point me in the direction of any form that says otherwise ? Fight_Back
  • Score: 0

3:28pm Thu 25 Oct 12

PorkBoat says...

Why not just go the whole hog, and call us all "Comrade" "Citizen" or "123456 Smith (or whatever your name is) ? Because THAT is what they really want to do. We can all wear nice green suits with high collars and a little cap as well, and ride a state issued bicycle to the collective farm or factory.
Why not just go the whole hog, and call us all "Comrade" "Citizen" or "123456 Smith (or whatever your name is) ? Because THAT is what they really want to do. We can all wear nice green suits with high collars and a little cap as well, and ride a state issued bicycle to the collective farm or factory. PorkBoat
  • Score: 0

3:29pm Thu 25 Oct 12

Morpheus says...

Poor Darwin really messed up when it came to understanding the part that gender plays in evolution, and as for God, he got it completely wrong. Long live the greens.
Poor Darwin really messed up when it came to understanding the part that gender plays in evolution, and as for God, he got it completely wrong. Long live the greens. Morpheus
  • Score: 0

3:30pm Thu 25 Oct 12

ruberducker says...

deltaP wrote:
Fight_Back wrote:
I hate being called Mr Back. I have no problem with being addressed as Dear Fight. As one of my councillors that has assisted me in the past I have the up most respect for Dawn Barnett but she's making a mountain out of a molehill with this. What purpose does Mr, Ms, Miss or Mrs serve ?
The titles you refer to serve to distinguish those who wish to be distinguished, i.e the majority of the population. In fact, as we allegedly live in a democracy where majority opinion rules, there is no need to change anything.
so what happened to british jobs for british workers,housing for our offspring,we cant fly the union jack-but its ok for a rainbow flag in brighton.
[quote][p][bold]deltaP[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Fight_Back[/bold] wrote: I hate being called Mr Back. I have no problem with being addressed as Dear Fight. As one of my councillors that has assisted me in the past I have the up most respect for Dawn Barnett but she's making a mountain out of a molehill with this. What purpose does Mr, Ms, Miss or Mrs serve ?[/p][/quote]The titles you refer to serve to distinguish those who wish to be distinguished, i.e the majority of the population. In fact, as we allegedly live in a democracy where majority opinion rules, there is no need to change anything.[/p][/quote]so what happened to british jobs for british workers,housing for our offspring,we cant fly the union jack-but its ok for a rainbow flag in brighton. ruberducker
  • Score: 0

3:39pm Thu 25 Oct 12

davenachfan says...

Oh I am delighted about this proposal. I have been campaigning for years about this.
I am not married.
I do not want a title.
I am me.
When there is a drop down menu I usually end up having to choose 'other' and if I have a different option I have to put 'no title'.
We all have at least a first name and a second name.
Oh I am delighted about this proposal. I have been campaigning for years about this. I am not married. I do not want a title. I am me. When there is a drop down menu I usually end up having to choose 'other' and if I have a different option I have to put 'no title'. We all have at least a first name and a second name. davenachfan
  • Score: 0

3:51pm Thu 25 Oct 12

deltaP says...

ruberducker wrote:
deltaP wrote:
Fight_Back wrote: I hate being called Mr Back. I have no problem with being addressed as Dear Fight. As one of my councillors that has assisted me in the past I have the up most respect for Dawn Barnett but she's making a mountain out of a molehill with this. What purpose does Mr, Ms, Miss or Mrs serve ?
The titles you refer to serve to distinguish those who wish to be distinguished, i.e the majority of the population. In fact, as we allegedly live in a democracy where majority opinion rules, there is no need to change anything.
so what happened to british jobs for british workers,housing for our offspring,we cant fly the union jack-but its ok for a rainbow flag in brighton.
What has that got to do with this discussion?
[quote][p][bold]ruberducker[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]deltaP[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Fight_Back[/bold] wrote: I hate being called Mr Back. I have no problem with being addressed as Dear Fight. As one of my councillors that has assisted me in the past I have the up most respect for Dawn Barnett but she's making a mountain out of a molehill with this. What purpose does Mr, Ms, Miss or Mrs serve ?[/p][/quote]The titles you refer to serve to distinguish those who wish to be distinguished, i.e the majority of the population. In fact, as we allegedly live in a democracy where majority opinion rules, there is no need to change anything.[/p][/quote]so what happened to british jobs for british workers,housing for our offspring,we cant fly the union jack-but its ok for a rainbow flag in brighton.[/p][/quote]What has that got to do with this discussion? deltaP
  • Score: 0

3:53pm Thu 25 Oct 12

sbiscorrupt says...

Will 'Ladies' and 'Gents' on toilets be the next to be removed?
Will 'Ladies' and 'Gents' on toilets be the next to be removed? sbiscorrupt
  • Score: 0

4:01pm Thu 25 Oct 12

Phani Tikkala says...

Politically correct COBBLERS
Politically correct COBBLERS Phani Tikkala
  • Score: 0

4:02pm Thu 25 Oct 12

Crystal Ball says...

Can't help but think the supporting councilor's name is close to "phlegm". Quite fitting really given the ridiculousness of the proposal.

As Eric Idle said, "I want to be known as Loretta".
Can't help but think the supporting councilor's name is close to "phlegm". Quite fitting really given the ridiculousness of the proposal. As Eric Idle said, "I want to be known as Loretta". Crystal Ball
  • Score: 0

4:13pm Thu 25 Oct 12

fredflintstone1 says...

Phelim MacCafferty says:-

“Why is Mr on my debit card, for instance? I don’t understand why it’s there."

Poor chap - deputy leader of Brighton & Hove City Council, and he can't even figure out that out! It serves to act as an additional safeguard, helping to reduce the risk of the card being used fraudently. (But by the way, it's not "your" card, it belongs to your bank).

There are old people in serious need of help in this city, who will be dying this winter because of the cold, and yet this puerile issue is top of your agenda? So typical of the Greens.

Resign now - it's clearly all too much responsibility for you. A more pathetic, arrogant, disengaged excuse for a politician it would be hard to find.
Phelim MacCafferty says:- “Why is Mr on my debit card, for instance? I don’t understand why it’s there." Poor chap - deputy leader of Brighton & Hove City Council, and he can't even figure out that out! It serves to act as an additional safeguard, helping to reduce the risk of the card being used fraudently. (But by the way, it's not "your" card, it belongs to your bank). There are old people in serious need of help in this city, who will be dying this winter because of the cold, and yet this puerile issue is top of your agenda? So typical of the Greens. Resign now - it's clearly all too much responsibility for you. A more pathetic, arrogant, disengaged excuse for a politician it would be hard to find. fredflintstone1
  • Score: 0

4:17pm Thu 25 Oct 12

Metro Reader says...

jimbobmaginty wrote:
So yet again the Transgender/gay community getting their own way! What about what the straight people want? What happens if the married people want to be Mr & Mrs? I like being called Mr and my Wife likes to be called MRS. Why should I be known by another title because some transgender can’t make up their mind if they want to be a woman or man? I think an opposition group might be needed here! But we are straight so any comments we may have against this will probably fall on deaf ears! After all we don’t want to upset the Gay community!
This is nothing to do with the Gay community.

someone who is Transgender is NOT gay.

I like being called Mr and so does my Husband!
[quote][p][bold]jimbobmaginty[/bold] wrote: So yet again the Transgender/gay community getting their own way! What about what the straight people want? What happens if the married people want to be Mr & Mrs? I like being called Mr and my Wife likes to be called MRS. Why should I be known by another title because some transgender can’t make up their mind if they want to be a woman or man? I think an opposition group might be needed here! But we are straight so any comments we may have against this will probably fall on deaf ears! After all we don’t want to upset the Gay community![/p][/quote]This is nothing to do with the Gay community. someone who is Transgender is NOT gay. I like being called Mr and so does my Husband! Metro Reader
  • Score: 0

4:25pm Thu 25 Oct 12

rfairweather@tiscali.co.uk says...

Blast - that's a queer old do. I'm glad I don't live in B&H and have to contribute council tax money to the bunch of muppetts who are running your looney bin.
Blast - that's a queer old do. I'm glad I don't live in B&H and have to contribute council tax money to the bunch of muppetts who are running your looney bin. rfairweather@tiscali.co.uk
  • Score: 0

4:31pm Thu 25 Oct 12

lindi_lmf says...

Martha Gunn wrote:
From the same people that brought you Speciesism and Solar Palm Trees. The Green Party are fast losing their grip.
You forgot their One Planet Living policy. I don't think many Greens originally came from this planet though
[quote][p][bold]Martha Gunn[/bold] wrote: From the same people that brought you Speciesism and Solar Palm Trees. The Green Party are fast losing their grip.[/p][/quote]You forgot their One Planet Living policy. I don't think many Greens originally came from this planet though lindi_lmf
  • Score: 0

4:39pm Thu 25 Oct 12

davenachfan says...

You will find that you don't have a title in your passport, but the airlines insist you put a title when booking a flight, even though it says you have to use exactly the same wording as in your passport.
I have had lots of conversations about this but the staff insist you have to choose a title from the drop down menu. Again, I have never wanted a title and am often forced to choose one.
You will find that you don't have a title in your passport, but the airlines insist you put a title when booking a flight, even though it says you have to use exactly the same wording as in your passport. I have had lots of conversations about this but the staff insist you have to choose a title from the drop down menu. Again, I have never wanted a title and am often forced to choose one. davenachfan
  • Score: 0

5:10pm Thu 25 Oct 12

jesss2012 says...

@davenachfan and @Metro Reader, which there was a like button.
@sbiscorrupt probably wont happen but do we woman have to have a picture with a skirt lol
BornInBrighton1968 is there any need to be personally critical. I don't think someones appearance is necessarily relevant to the discussion :)
@lillylou I think their might be the word you're looking for. Hope you are not a teacher! 1st name maybe, worked when I was a teacher many moons ago
and yes human is sexist and will also be considered racist when we co-exist with alien life forms.
Live and let live me thinks ha ha :)
@davenachfan and @Metro Reader, which there was a like button. @sbiscorrupt probably wont happen but do we woman have to have a picture with a skirt lol BornInBrighton1968 is there any need to be personally critical. I don't think someones appearance is necessarily relevant to the discussion :) @lillylou I think their might be the word you're looking for. Hope you are not a teacher! 1st name maybe, worked when I was a teacher many moons ago and yes human is sexist and will also be considered racist when we co-exist with alien life forms. Live and let live me thinks ha ha :) jesss2012
  • Score: 0

5:20pm Thu 25 Oct 12

jesss2012 says...

@myself think wish may have been the word i was looking for. Oops :)
@myself think wish may have been the word i was looking for. Oops :) jesss2012
  • Score: 0

5:23pm Thu 25 Oct 12

Lady Smith says...

Oh hell...what a spectacular own-goal by the Greens...:-0 I mean, I'm gay, but even if think this is just plain stupid...
Oh hell...what a spectacular own-goal by the Greens...:-0 I mean, I'm gay, but even if think this is just plain stupid... Lady Smith
  • Score: 0

5:28pm Thu 25 Oct 12

kayleighswift says...

The only people that *really* need to know my gender/sex are my doctor and my partner.

Having lived as both sexes, I can clearly state that I don't identify fully with either. But society forces me to pick one. I have to choose one and then I have to advertise it - on my ID, my debit cards, my clothes, my hair, my voice, the way I act, the things I'm in to... the minute I have one of those that doesn't match the others I'm suddenly a freak. Somebody who should be made fun of, spat at, denied service and assaulted.

Personally I like to wear somewhat gender-neutral clothes, wear my hair in what most people would describe as a feminine style, but my voice is a little deep. I also like to take part in male-dominant activities as well as female dominated ones, and sometimes my body language & mannerisms vary. Meeting me in the street, you might not be able to tell my sex. But again, why do you need to know? Unfortunately, because of this, I do suffer abuse and negative treatment from others on a frequent basis. Have I hurt anybody? No, I am simply trying to be myself.

There are *many* things that need to be changed to solve all the problems I face in society because I don't fit into the neat little boxes of "male" or "female", but this is a good start to demonstrate to society that people should not be defined or prejudged based on a few letters in front of the name on their debit card.

If you want to be defined by "Mr" or "Mrs" or whatever, that's fine. Just please don't force me into a box.
The only people that *really* need to know my gender/sex are my doctor and my partner. Having lived as both sexes, I can clearly state that I don't identify fully with either. But society forces me to pick one. I have to choose one and then I have to advertise it - on my ID, my debit cards, my clothes, my hair, my voice, the way I act, the things I'm in to... the minute I have one of those that doesn't match the others I'm suddenly a freak. Somebody who should be made fun of, spat at, denied service and assaulted. Personally I like to wear somewhat gender-neutral clothes, wear my hair in what most people would describe as a feminine style, but my voice is a little deep. I also like to take part in male-dominant activities as well as female dominated ones, and sometimes my body language & mannerisms vary. Meeting me in the street, you might not be able to tell my sex. But again, why do you need to know? Unfortunately, because of this, I do suffer abuse and negative treatment from others on a frequent basis. Have I hurt anybody? No, I am simply trying to be myself. There are *many* things that need to be changed to solve all the problems I face in society because I don't fit into the neat little boxes of "male" or "female", but this is a good start to demonstrate to society that people should not be defined or prejudged based on a few letters in front of the name on their debit card. If you want to be defined by "Mr" or "Mrs" or whatever, that's fine. Just please don't force me into a box. kayleighswift
  • Score: 0

5:33pm Thu 25 Oct 12

NDL says...

I can't wait until the next election to get rid of these imbeciles.
I can't wait until the next election to get rid of these imbeciles. NDL
  • Score: 0

5:43pm Thu 25 Oct 12

nocando says...

2 years ago I was between jobs and received an application form from B&H council for a position I was more than qualified and experienced enough to do a better job than the current lot who turn out on strike everytime the budget won't stretch to their laziness and ineptitude . There was barely enough room on the form for me to explain my working credentials but a very large section devoted to my sexual preferences, ethnic origins, dietry requirements, religion and disabilities. I didn't even bother filling it in because there was no box saying 'none of your **** business' for me to tick or enlarge upon.
Does the council really need to know what floats the boats of their dustcart drivers?
When I write letters to people I've never personally met then they are headed 'dear sir', 'dear madam' or if unsure then 'dear sir/madam'.The Mr, Mrs, Miss or Ms title of the recipient usually being the giveaway.
In polite company people also address each other as sir or madam, its simple courtesy and plain good manners.Gender specific because by and large that's the way the world is so deal with it.
My old sergeant majors would've battered me for calling them anything other than 'sir' and if you're writing to me having never met me I'll thank you to address me as Mr until we know each other better.
Familiarity breeds contempt and so does endless appeasement of the professional grievance mongers.
2 years ago I was between jobs and received an application form from B&H council for a position I was more than qualified and experienced enough to do a better job than the current lot who turn out on strike everytime the budget won't stretch to their laziness and ineptitude . There was barely enough room on the form for me to explain my working credentials but a very large section devoted to my sexual preferences, ethnic origins, dietry requirements, religion and disabilities. I didn't even bother filling it in because there was no box saying 'none of your **** business' for me to tick or enlarge upon. Does the council really need to know what floats the boats of their dustcart drivers? When I write letters to people I've never personally met then they are headed 'dear sir', 'dear madam' or if unsure then 'dear sir/madam'.The Mr, Mrs, Miss or Ms title of the recipient usually being the giveaway. In polite company people also address each other as sir or madam, its simple courtesy and plain good manners.Gender specific because by and large that's the way the world is so deal with it. My old sergeant majors would've battered me for calling them anything other than 'sir' and if you're writing to me having never met me I'll thank you to address me as Mr until we know each other better. Familiarity breeds contempt and so does endless appeasement of the professional grievance mongers. nocando
  • Score: 0

5:46pm Thu 25 Oct 12

nocando says...

What next, gender neutral battery terminals?
What next, gender neutral battery terminals? nocando
  • Score: 0

5:49pm Thu 25 Oct 12

kayleighswift says...

"What next, gender neutral battery terminals?"
They already are. Battery terminals use polarity, not gender.
"What next, gender neutral battery terminals?" They already are. Battery terminals use polarity, not gender. kayleighswift
  • Score: 0

6:02pm Thu 25 Oct 12

Bill in Hanover says...

As the Council and myself have never been formally introduced I would be insulted if they called me anything other than Mister.
As the Council and myself have never been formally introduced I would be insulted if they called me anything other than Mister. Bill in Hanover
  • Score: 0

6:07pm Thu 25 Oct 12

stir up says...

What a lot of rubbish, haven't the council got anythiong better to do, oh of course not. So how much money is this going to save. Years ago the inland revenue etc., used to sign letters 'your humble servant' it is about time that the councillors and officers realised that the numties who suggest this are a minority and real people are Mr Mrs Miss all this nonsense of MS as an address is all so a lot of rubbish
What a lot of rubbish, haven't the council got anythiong better to do, oh of course not. So how much money is this going to save. Years ago the inland revenue etc., used to sign letters 'your humble servant' it is about time that the councillors and officers realised that the numties who suggest this are a minority and real people are Mr Mrs Miss all this nonsense of MS as an address is all so a lot of rubbish stir up
  • Score: 0

6:13pm Thu 25 Oct 12

Farouche says...

Steph Scott, neither male nor female? What a stupid stance to take, but ultimately incredibly boring. Who cares how you define yourself...
Steph Scott, neither male nor female? What a stupid stance to take, but ultimately incredibly boring. Who cares how you define yourself... Farouche
  • Score: 0

6:14pm Thu 25 Oct 12

Nosfaratu says...

rolivan wrote:
I would think that with a name like Phelim MacCafferty one doesnt need a title of Mr Mrs or Ms.Give them an inch and they want a yard.Why don't they all go off and build their Shangri La somewhere else and leave the rest of the City in Peace.
Phlem McCoughforty ? Is that the way you pronounce it.

Well I am Non-Gender on this Letters page but would prefer to be addressed by my Gender Title by the Council in communications otherwise I could be a Sheep. Perhaps this is what they want us to be called, ' Sheep 24' come in.
[quote][p][bold]rolivan[/bold] wrote: I would think that with a name like Phelim MacCafferty one doesnt need a title of Mr Mrs or Ms.Give them an inch and they want a yard.Why don't they all go off and build their Shangri La somewhere else and leave the rest of the City in Peace.[/p][/quote]Phlem McCoughforty ? Is that the way you pronounce it. Well I am Non-Gender on this Letters page but would prefer to be addressed by my Gender Title by the Council in communications otherwise I could be a Sheep. Perhaps this is what they want us to be called, ' Sheep 24' come in. Nosfaratu
  • Score: 0

6:17pm Thu 25 Oct 12

Gee Jay says...

Vote them out at the next opportunity. Time and money wasted on this sort of thing are just an insult to the people of Brighton & Hove.
Surely there are much more important subjects to be addressed by these people who are meant to be our representatives. Perhaps not, in wich case, these people can resign and repay their expence allowance.
Vote them out at the next opportunity. Time and money wasted on this sort of thing are just an insult to the people of Brighton & Hove. Surely there are much more important subjects to be addressed by these people who are meant to be our representatives. Perhaps not, in wich case, these people can resign and repay their expence allowance. Gee Jay
  • Score: 0

6:23pm Thu 25 Oct 12

AmboGuy says...

It's not April 1st again is it?

I saw the headline and just assumed this must all be a joke.

What next, you can't ask someone which part of the city they live in in case it might upset them to admit they live in a crappy area?

The fact is that with more nationalities now living in the city it's not always obvious if a Christian name belongs to a make or female. This PC madness has to stop.
It's not April 1st again is it? I saw the headline and just assumed this must all be a joke. What next, you can't ask someone which part of the city they live in in case it might upset them to admit they live in a crappy area? The fact is that with more nationalities now living in the city it's not always obvious if a Christian name belongs to a make or female. This PC madness has to stop. AmboGuy
  • Score: 0

6:34pm Thu 25 Oct 12

nocando says...

Bill in Hanover wrote:
As the Council and myself have never been formally introduced I would be insulted if they called me anything other than Mister.
So would I. Isn't there some stupid law the liberal elite have invented that makes offending anybody a criminal offence. Not only would I be grossly offended if they called me anything other than Mr, I'd use their own law against them and sue them for hurt feelings. Few bob in that game these days. Time off work and counselling and all the rest of it. 'they did it to me your honour, now I don't feel like a man anymore..blub...etc etc' Kerching lol.
[quote][p][bold]Bill in Hanover[/bold] wrote: As the Council and myself have never been formally introduced I would be insulted if they called me anything other than Mister.[/p][/quote]So would I. Isn't there some stupid law the liberal elite have invented that makes offending anybody a criminal offence. Not only would I be grossly offended if they called me anything other than Mr, I'd use their own law against them and sue them for hurt feelings. Few bob in that game these days. Time off work and counselling and all the rest of it. 'they did it to me your honour, now I don't feel like a man anymore..blub...etc etc' Kerching lol. nocando
  • Score: 0

7:11pm Thu 25 Oct 12

george smith says...

What do they want to put on birth certificates?
What do they want to put on birth certificates? george smith
  • Score: 0

7:19pm Thu 25 Oct 12

btnboi says...

jimbobmaginty wrote:
So yet again the Transgender/gay community getting their own way!

What about what the straight people want?

What happens if the married people want to be Mr & Mrs? I like being called Mr and my Wife likes to be called MRS.

Why should I be known by another title because some transgender can’t make up their mind if they want to be a woman or man?

I think an opposition group might be needed here! But we are straight so any comments we may have against this will probably fall on deaf ears! After all we don’t want to upset the Gay community!
im gay and i think it is a ludicrous idea, please dont tarnish us all with the same brush!!
[quote][p][bold]jimbobmaginty[/bold] wrote: So yet again the Transgender/gay community getting their own way! What about what the straight people want? What happens if the married people want to be Mr & Mrs? I like being called Mr and my Wife likes to be called MRS. Why should I be known by another title because some transgender can’t make up their mind if they want to be a woman or man? I think an opposition group might be needed here! But we are straight so any comments we may have against this will probably fall on deaf ears! After all we don’t want to upset the Gay community![/p][/quote]im gay and i think it is a ludicrous idea, please dont tarnish us all with the same brush!! btnboi
  • Score: 0

7:21pm Thu 25 Oct 12

taman says...

the lunatics are running the asylum !!!!!!
the lunatics are running the asylum !!!!!! taman
  • Score: 0

7:24pm Thu 25 Oct 12

Idontbelieveit1948 says...

So Steph Scott Mr & Mrs are outdated - I suppose you think "genderqueer" is cutting edge. Me, I just think it's plain bl00dy daft.

Please can you and the Greens just go and play somewhere quiet and private so the rest of us can get on with life in the real world witthout having to deal with such rubbish.
So Steph Scott Mr & Mrs are outdated - I suppose you think "genderqueer" is cutting edge. Me, I just think it's plain bl00dy daft. Please can you and the Greens just go and play somewhere quiet and private so the rest of us can get on with life in the real world witthout having to deal with such rubbish. Idontbelieveit1948
  • Score: 0

7:29pm Thu 25 Oct 12

Poccypoc says...

BornInBrighton1968 wrote:
juleshove wrote:
Another very stupid idea from the greens . How can these people be elected !
You can blame students for that...
No, it's not all students who voted Green. Hopefully, the Greens will be flushed down the electoral loo very soon.
[quote][p][bold]BornInBrighton1968[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]juleshove[/bold] wrote: Another very stupid idea from the greens . How can these people be elected ![/p][/quote]You can blame students for that...[/p][/quote]No, it's not all students who voted Green. Hopefully, the Greens will be flushed down the electoral loo very soon. Poccypoc
  • Score: 0

7:30pm Thu 25 Oct 12

Nosfaratu says...

Idontbelieveit1948 wrote:
So Steph Scott Mr & Mrs are outdated - I suppose you think "genderqueer" is cutting edge. Me, I just think it's plain bl00dy daft. Please can you and the Greens just go and play somewhere quiet and private so the rest of us can get on with life in the real world witthout having to deal with such rubbish.
Why dont you all EMail your Councillor (of preferred Gender and Political views) about this.
He/She/Sheep would have to read or appreciate your views due to the numbers. They wont read this column.
[quote][p][bold]Idontbelieveit1948[/bold] wrote: So Steph Scott Mr & Mrs are outdated - I suppose you think "genderqueer" is cutting edge. Me, I just think it's plain bl00dy daft. Please can you and the Greens just go and play somewhere quiet and private so the rest of us can get on with life in the real world witthout having to deal with such rubbish.[/p][/quote]Why dont you all EMail your Councillor (of preferred Gender and Political views) about this. He/She/Sheep would have to read or appreciate your views due to the numbers. They wont read this column. Nosfaratu
  • Score: 0

7:31pm Thu 25 Oct 12

Poccypoc says...

AmboGuy wrote:
It's not April 1st again is it?

I saw the headline and just assumed this must all be a joke.

What next, you can't ask someone which part of the city they live in in case it might upset them to admit they live in a crappy area?

The fact is that with more nationalities now living in the city it's not always obvious if a Christian name belongs to a make or female. This PC madness has to stop.
When I worked for an Indian guy, and many of the staff were Indians, EVERY time I was given a person's name to see, I got the sex wrong.
[quote][p][bold]AmboGuy[/bold] wrote: It's not April 1st again is it? I saw the headline and just assumed this must all be a joke. What next, you can't ask someone which part of the city they live in in case it might upset them to admit they live in a crappy area? The fact is that with more nationalities now living in the city it's not always obvious if a Christian name belongs to a make or female. This PC madness has to stop.[/p][/quote]When I worked for an Indian guy, and many of the staff were Indians, EVERY time I was given a person's name to see, I got the sex wrong. Poccypoc
  • Score: 0

7:31pm Thu 25 Oct 12

Poccypoc says...

AmboGuy wrote:
It's not April 1st again is it?

I saw the headline and just assumed this must all be a joke.

What next, you can't ask someone which part of the city they live in in case it might upset them to admit they live in a crappy area?

The fact is that with more nationalities now living in the city it's not always obvious if a Christian name belongs to a make or female. This PC madness has to stop.
When I worked for an Indian guy, and many of the staff were Indians, EVERY time I was given a person's name to see, I got the sex wrong.
[quote][p][bold]AmboGuy[/bold] wrote: It's not April 1st again is it? I saw the headline and just assumed this must all be a joke. What next, you can't ask someone which part of the city they live in in case it might upset them to admit they live in a crappy area? The fact is that with more nationalities now living in the city it's not always obvious if a Christian name belongs to a make or female. This PC madness has to stop.[/p][/quote]When I worked for an Indian guy, and many of the staff were Indians, EVERY time I was given a person's name to see, I got the sex wrong. Poccypoc
  • Score: 0

7:37pm Thu 25 Oct 12

smegbuster says...

Prats!
You ARE one or the other, unless you choose to be otherwise. With Women's Lib, people chose the title Ms and got it accepted as an alternative. How about these people choosing a new alternative (eg, Mys for mystery, maybe) rather than trying to force everybody else to change something they're perfectly happy with?
Prats! You ARE one or the other, unless you choose to be otherwise. With Women's Lib, people chose the title Ms and got it accepted as an alternative. How about these people choosing a new alternative (eg, Mys for mystery, maybe) rather than trying to force everybody else to change something they're perfectly happy with? smegbuster
  • Score: -1

7:52pm Thu 25 Oct 12

Just asking! says...

Is this suggestion coming from the same Green Party that insists on having one each of male and female leaders/deputy leaders. No sign of gender neutrality there - Cllr Philips was eliminated from the Deputy Leadership election purely on the basis of her gender.
Is this suggestion coming from the same Green Party that insists on having one each of male and female leaders/deputy leaders. No sign of gender neutrality there - Cllr Philips was eliminated from the Deputy Leadership election purely on the basis of her gender. Just asking!
  • Score: 0

8:18pm Thu 25 Oct 12

Dr.Draconian says...

I take extreme offence to the use of the terms "he" & "she" that proliferate the comments left above. I demand that Jo Wadsworth edit the comments removing these offensive & discriminatory labels immediately.
I take extreme offence to the use of the terms "he" & "she" that proliferate the comments left above. I demand that Jo Wadsworth edit the comments removing these offensive & discriminatory labels immediately. Dr.Draconian
  • Score: 0

8:23pm Thu 25 Oct 12

deedles says...

So he won't want to be known as 'councillor' then?
If I mustn't be called 'Mrs' then you can't address anyone as doctor,lord,your majesty etc as I can take you to court for discrimination against me.
So he won't want to be known as 'councillor' then? If I mustn't be called 'Mrs' then you can't address anyone as doctor,lord,your majesty etc as I can take you to court for discrimination against me. deedles
  • Score: 0

8:27pm Thu 25 Oct 12

deedles says...

Idontbelieveit1948 wrote:
So Steph Scott Mr & Mrs are outdated - I suppose you think "genderqueer" is cutting edge. Me, I just think it's plain bl00dy daft.

Please can you and the Greens just go and play somewhere quiet and private so the rest of us can get on with life in the real world witthout having to deal with such rubbish.
not somewhere quiet! what about the M25?
[quote][p][bold]Idontbelieveit1948[/bold] wrote: So Steph Scott Mr & Mrs are outdated - I suppose you think "genderqueer" is cutting edge. Me, I just think it's plain bl00dy daft. Please can you and the Greens just go and play somewhere quiet and private so the rest of us can get on with life in the real world witthout having to deal with such rubbish.[/p][/quote]not somewhere quiet! what about the M25? deedles
  • Score: 0

8:32pm Thu 25 Oct 12

juleshove says...

I have met thousands of people in my lifetime and never yet met someone who doesn't know their gender.

For the tiny percentage of people who don't know their gender, i presume there is help available to them from a mental health professional.

Why are the Greens wasting time and OUR money with this nonsense.

Vote for Labour, Liberal democrats or Tories, at least they have some understanding of what a councillor is meant to do even if you don't agree with all of it.

The Greens are just one big embarrasement - even for my 11 year old !
I have met thousands of people in my lifetime and never yet met someone who doesn't know their gender. For the tiny percentage of people who don't know their gender, i presume there is help available to them from a mental health professional. Why are the Greens wasting time and OUR money with this nonsense. Vote for Labour, Liberal democrats or Tories, at least they have some understanding of what a councillor is meant to do even if you don't agree with all of it. The Greens are just one big embarrasement - even for my 11 year old ! juleshove
  • Score: 0

8:35pm Thu 25 Oct 12

Dr Wombleface says...

So then, Samuel and Samantha Smith (both known as Sam) have the same bank. The statements arrive and she opens his, sees what he's been spending his money on (hotels, flowers, restaurants etc), discovers he's been having an affair, and they divorce, all because of this nonsense. What a load of rubbish. I don't mind the greens signing their own death warrant as they seem intent on doing, but I don't want them to leave us with this sort of mess when they get booted.
Also, the older generation like to be referred to as Mr and Mrs, not David and Mary. It's also about respect, so please have some.
So then, Samuel and Samantha Smith (both known as Sam) have the same bank. The statements arrive and she opens his, sees what he's been spending his money on (hotels, flowers, restaurants etc), discovers he's been having an affair, and they divorce, all because of this nonsense. What a load of rubbish. I don't mind the greens signing their own death warrant as they seem intent on doing, but I don't want them to leave us with this sort of mess when they get booted. Also, the older generation like to be referred to as Mr and Mrs, not David and Mary. It's also about respect, so please have some. Dr Wombleface
  • Score: 0

8:58pm Thu 25 Oct 12

gusset snatcher says...

I have re-read the article and re-read it again. Phil McCavity states: 'Why is Mr on my debit card, for instance? I don’t understand why it’s there.'
It's evident from this that he's not fit to be in charge of a toilet brush, never mind deputy leader of B and H Council.
I have re-read the article and re-read it again. Phil McCavity states: 'Why is Mr on my debit card, for instance? I don’t understand why it’s there.' It's evident from this that he's not fit to be in charge of a toilet brush, never mind deputy leader of B and H Council. gusset snatcher
  • Score: 0

9:12pm Thu 25 Oct 12

lachrymatory says...

This is ridiculous. Let people choose their own title.
This is ridiculous. Let people choose their own title. lachrymatory
  • Score: 0

9:47pm Thu 25 Oct 12

george smith says...

Dr.Draconian wrote:
I take extreme offence to the use of the terms "he" & "she" that proliferate the comments left above. I demand that Jo Wadsworth edit the comments removing these offensive & discriminatory labels immediately.
Wot along with the tr*****ler word
[quote][p][bold]Dr.Draconian[/bold] wrote: I take extreme offence to the use of the terms "he" & "she" that proliferate the comments left above. I demand that Jo Wadsworth edit the comments removing these offensive & discriminatory labels immediately.[/p][/quote]Wot along with the tr*****ler word george smith
  • Score: 0

10:02pm Thu 25 Oct 12

reggie kray says...

if you want to make people turn against the gay community keep writing **** like this ...........shut up lifes hard enough at the moment with out this garbage !!
if you want to make people turn against the gay community keep writing **** like this ...........shut up lifes hard enough at the moment with out this garbage !! reggie kray
  • Score: 0

10:50pm Thu 25 Oct 12

whatmost of us think says...

Transgender (to my understanding) means being unsure of your sex even though you may be physically male or female. It does not mean you are gay, like dressing up as the opposite sex or want to become a person of the opposite sex to what you appear to be.
Are the people who raised this truly transgender rather than transvestite or transsexual? Or just stirring things up for the sake of it?
I am Mr, and proud to be. If someone does not want to be designated Mr, Mrs etc then let them come up with a new title. But do not stop the majority calling themselves what they want to. Equality works all ways.
Transgender (to my understanding) means being unsure of your sex even though you may be physically male or female. It does not mean you are gay, like dressing up as the opposite sex or want to become a person of the opposite sex to what you appear to be. Are the people who raised this truly transgender rather than transvestite or transsexual? Or just stirring things up for the sake of it? I am Mr, and proud to be. If someone does not want to be designated Mr, Mrs etc then let them come up with a new title. But do not stop the majority calling themselves what they want to. Equality works all ways. whatmost of us think
  • Score: 0

11:04pm Thu 25 Oct 12

hubby says...

Cyclic wrote:
Perhaps "Comrade" would be better for all. Then we could get rid of all the titles such as Councellor, Sir, lady, Doctor, Reverend, Highness, Prince(ess). I personally wish to be Gender, class, Family and species neutral and therefore wish to be called "Snirk" although this does pigeonhole me as I use the alphabet.
So funny.
Only in Brighton could this happen.
To think that I used to be proud of being born and bred in Brighton....
[quote][p][bold]Cyclic[/bold] wrote: Perhaps "Comrade" would be better for all. Then we could get rid of all the titles such as Councellor, Sir, lady, Doctor, Reverend, Highness, Prince(ess). I personally wish to be Gender, class, Family and species neutral and therefore wish to be called "Snirk" although this does pigeonhole me as I use the alphabet.[/p][/quote]So funny. Only in Brighton could this happen. To think that I used to be proud of being born and bred in Brighton.... hubby
  • Score: 0

11:31pm Thu 25 Oct 12

General Dreedle says...

Last month the Greens closed three homes for people with Learning Disabilities because they needed to save money. Glad to see the savings are being put to good use investigating this key issue.
Last month the Greens closed three homes for people with Learning Disabilities because they needed to save money. Glad to see the savings are being put to good use investigating this key issue. General Dreedle
  • Score: 0

11:35pm Thu 25 Oct 12

PorkBoat says...

Google "Cultural Marxism" and "The Frankfurt School" to see the kind of world that the Greens want, as well as all the main political parties do in varying degrees, even the Tories. Also, they are shovelling this crap down the throats of our kids all the way from Primary School to University. Their aim is to destroy Western civilisation and culture. Some people think this is "A Very Good Thing". These people need to swing from lamp posts.
Google "Cultural Marxism" and "The Frankfurt School" to see the kind of world that the Greens want, as well as all the main political parties do in varying degrees, even the Tories. Also, they are shovelling this crap down the throats of our kids all the way from Primary School to University. Their aim is to destroy Western civilisation and culture. Some people think this is "A Very Good Thing". These people need to swing from lamp posts. PorkBoat
  • Score: 0

12:16am Fri 26 Oct 12

General Dreedle says...

Sky-high parking charges are driving visitors away, businesses are closing, people are being made redundant, homeless people fill the doorways of Western Road, the council high command are deserting the sinking-ship like rats, homes for the weakest in society are being closed. But don't worry, The Greens can save us by focusing on the real key issues including-
Meat Free Mondays
Banning the National Lottery to save the working class from themselves
Lobbying national government on gay marriage (even though said government has already committed to pushing it through this parliament)
Cutting down trees in Wild Park
Concreting over The Level
Launching investigations over who dressed a statue in a shirt and underpants and now their pièce de résistance, telling us all we can't be be called Mr or Mrs because two people are offended that the terms pidgeon-hole them. What have we to worry about?
Sky-high parking charges are driving visitors away, businesses are closing, people are being made redundant, homeless people fill the doorways of Western Road, the council high command are deserting the sinking-ship like rats, homes for the weakest in society are being closed. But don't worry, The Greens can save us by focusing on the real key issues including- Meat Free Mondays Banning the National Lottery to save the working class from themselves Lobbying national government on gay marriage (even though said government has already committed to pushing it through this parliament) Cutting down trees in Wild Park Concreting over The Level Launching investigations over who dressed a statue in a shirt and underpants and now their pièce de résistance, telling us all we can't be be called Mr or Mrs because two people are offended that the terms pidgeon-hole them. What have we to worry about? General Dreedle
  • Score: 0

12:23am Fri 26 Oct 12

Dealing with idiots says...

Don't worry. Phlem as he is known amongst the B&H councillors will soon be seeking other employment. I hear he is to be dragged kicking and screaming before the standards committee for discrimination along with some of his mates. Only in Brighton and Hove!
Don't worry. Phlem as he is known amongst the B&H councillors will soon be seeking other employment. I hear he is to be dragged kicking and screaming before the standards committee for discrimination along with some of his mates. Only in Brighton and Hove! Dealing with idiots
  • Score: 0

12:47am Fri 26 Oct 12

crgh27 says...

Why not just introduce a third term for people who don't want to be Mr or Mrs. We can call them "it" or "thing".
Why not just introduce a third term for people who don't want to be Mr or Mrs. We can call them "it" or "thing". crgh27
  • Score: -1

4:53am Fri 26 Oct 12

Cash Cow says...

Ever seen the film The Killing Fields? Hang Ngor, the actor who played Dith Prahn, experienced the horror for real. While working in a rice paddy he was overheard by a guard as refering to his wife as "dear" (translated) and tried for this "crime". He was told as everybody was nobody, and people only existed to serve their masters, and was ordered as he was nothing and his wife was nothing he should not call her "dear" as this was acknowledging she actually existed as a person. For his punishment and as a permanent reminder of his crime he had his finger clipped off with a pair of pliers.
I first heard this story about twenty fives years ago and it was as unthinkable then as this news subject is to me today. Where is all this heading and what is the point? Are we witnessing an emergence of a Polly Potty and her Khymer Green party?
Ever seen the film The Killing Fields? Hang Ngor, the actor who played Dith Prahn, experienced the horror for real. While working in a rice paddy he was overheard by a guard as refering to his wife as "dear" (translated) and tried for this "crime". He was told as everybody was nobody, and people only existed to serve their masters, and was ordered as he was nothing and his wife was nothing he should not call her "dear" as this was acknowledging she actually existed as a person. For his punishment and as a permanent reminder of his crime he had his finger clipped off with a pair of pliers. I first heard this story about twenty fives years ago and it was as unthinkable then as this news subject is to me today. Where is all this heading and what is the point? Are we witnessing an emergence of a Polly Potty and her Khymer Green party? Cash Cow
  • Score: 0

6:54am Fri 26 Oct 12

samallerdice says...

Personally I think it it is waste having these proposals to please such a small minority, but they are entitled to their opinions like everyone else. There is however a very simple solution to this that will please everyone. Have the title field on these forms as optional.
Personally I think it it is waste having these proposals to please such a small minority, but they are entitled to their opinions like everyone else. There is however a very simple solution to this that will please everyone. Have the title field on these forms as optional. samallerdice
  • Score: 0

8:11am Fri 26 Oct 12

john newman says...

Yet again a national laughing stock. See Daily Express
Yet again a national laughing stock. See Daily Express john newman
  • Score: 0

8:32am Fri 26 Oct 12

Old Ladys Gin says...

Jacobdog wrote:
Don't make the mistake of blaming the gay community for the views of some transgender activists; I've never heard any gay people mention this issue before, this is a green party idea based on misplaced ideas of what equality means. In fact most transgender people identify as male or female so I'm not sure there will be much support there either.

The equalities lobbysists do so much good work so its a shame that it gets damaged by trivial obsessions by politicians. If the council feels strongly about transgender equality then maybe they could take more action to support people going through the difficult process of finding their identity and living with prejudice.

Proposals like this make no improvement to the lives of transgender people and only make the greens look stupid. Perhaps making the 'title' box in questionnaires optional would achieve the same aim without alienating the people they need to vote for them.
I've never liked being lumped all together as LGBT.
There are at least four distinct and different groups - we are not one 'community'.
[quote][p][bold]Jacobdog[/bold] wrote: Don't make the mistake of blaming the gay community for the views of some transgender activists; I've never heard any gay people mention this issue before, this is a green party idea based on misplaced ideas of what equality means. In fact most transgender people identify as male or female so I'm not sure there will be much support there either. The equalities lobbysists do so much good work so its a shame that it gets damaged by trivial obsessions by politicians. If the council feels strongly about transgender equality then maybe they could take more action to support people going through the difficult process of finding their identity and living with prejudice. Proposals like this make no improvement to the lives of transgender people and only make the greens look stupid. Perhaps making the 'title' box in questionnaires optional would achieve the same aim without alienating the people they need to vote for them.[/p][/quote]I've never liked being lumped all together as LGBT. There are at least four distinct and different groups - we are not one 'community'. Old Ladys Gin
  • Score: 0

8:39am Fri 26 Oct 12

see and speak sense says...

kayleighswift wrote:
The only people that *really* need to know my gender/sex are my doctor and my partner.

Having lived as both sexes, I can clearly state that I don't identify fully with either. But society forces me to pick one. I have to choose one and then I have to advertise it - on my ID, my debit cards, my clothes, my hair, my voice, the way I act, the things I'm in to... the minute I have one of those that doesn't match the others I'm suddenly a freak. Somebody who should be made fun of, spat at, denied service and assaulted.

Personally I like to wear somewhat gender-neutral clothes, wear my hair in what most people would describe as a feminine style, but my voice is a little deep. I also like to take part in male-dominant activities as well as female dominated ones, and sometimes my body language & mannerisms vary. Meeting me in the street, you might not be able to tell my sex. But again, why do you need to know? Unfortunately, because of this, I do suffer abuse and negative treatment from others on a frequent basis. Have I hurt anybody? No, I am simply trying to be myself.

There are *many* things that need to be changed to solve all the problems I face in society because I don't fit into the neat little boxes of "male" or "female", but this is a good start to demonstrate to society that people should not be defined or prejudged based on a few letters in front of the name on their debit card.

If you want to be defined by "Mr" or "Mrs" or whatever, that's fine. Just please don't force me into a box.
Isn't it interesting that you state" please don't force me into a box"... Yet the rest of Brighton and Hove is forced into a box by the removal by mr and mrs ??
Or are we now facing a new reality that actually those who are happy with their gender , title,etc are the majority grouping that are victimised. . Being made a nothing for the purpose of equality??
This greens sounds more and more like animal farm!!
[quote][p][bold]kayleighswift[/bold] wrote: The only people that *really* need to know my gender/sex are my doctor and my partner. Having lived as both sexes, I can clearly state that I don't identify fully with either. But society forces me to pick one. I have to choose one and then I have to advertise it - on my ID, my debit cards, my clothes, my hair, my voice, the way I act, the things I'm in to... the minute I have one of those that doesn't match the others I'm suddenly a freak. Somebody who should be made fun of, spat at, denied service and assaulted. Personally I like to wear somewhat gender-neutral clothes, wear my hair in what most people would describe as a feminine style, but my voice is a little deep. I also like to take part in male-dominant activities as well as female dominated ones, and sometimes my body language & mannerisms vary. Meeting me in the street, you might not be able to tell my sex. But again, why do you need to know? Unfortunately, because of this, I do suffer abuse and negative treatment from others on a frequent basis. Have I hurt anybody? No, I am simply trying to be myself. There are *many* things that need to be changed to solve all the problems I face in society because I don't fit into the neat little boxes of "male" or "female", but this is a good start to demonstrate to society that people should not be defined or prejudged based on a few letters in front of the name on their debit card. If you want to be defined by "Mr" or "Mrs" or whatever, that's fine. Just please don't force me into a box.[/p][/quote]Isn't it interesting that you state" please don't force me into a box"... Yet the rest of Brighton and Hove is forced into a box by the removal by mr and mrs ?? Or are we now facing a new reality that actually those who are happy with their gender , title,etc are the majority grouping that are victimised. . Being made a nothing for the purpose of equality?? This greens sounds more and more like animal farm!! see and speak sense
  • Score: 0

8:40am Fri 26 Oct 12

Old Ladys Gin says...

kayleighswift wrote:
The only people that *really* need to know my gender/sex are my doctor and my partner.

Having lived as both sexes, I can clearly state that I don't identify fully with either. But society forces me to pick one. I have to choose one and then I have to advertise it - on my ID, my debit cards, my clothes, my hair, my voice, the way I act, the things I'm in to... the minute I have one of those that doesn't match the others I'm suddenly a freak. Somebody who should be made fun of, spat at, denied service and assaulted.

Personally I like to wear somewhat gender-neutral clothes, wear my hair in what most people would describe as a feminine style, but my voice is a little deep. I also like to take part in male-dominant activities as well as female dominated ones, and sometimes my body language & mannerisms vary. Meeting me in the street, you might not be able to tell my sex. But again, why do you need to know? Unfortunately, because of this, I do suffer abuse and negative treatment from others on a frequent basis. Have I hurt anybody? No, I am simply trying to be myself.

There are *many* things that need to be changed to solve all the problems I face in society because I don't fit into the neat little boxes of "male" or "female", but this is a good start to demonstrate to society that people should not be defined or prejudged based on a few letters in front of the name on their debit card.

If you want to be defined by "Mr" or "Mrs" or whatever, that's fine. Just please don't force me into a box.
Yes, but it's not all about you!
[quote][p][bold]kayleighswift[/bold] wrote: The only people that *really* need to know my gender/sex are my doctor and my partner. Having lived as both sexes, I can clearly state that I don't identify fully with either. But society forces me to pick one. I have to choose one and then I have to advertise it - on my ID, my debit cards, my clothes, my hair, my voice, the way I act, the things I'm in to... the minute I have one of those that doesn't match the others I'm suddenly a freak. Somebody who should be made fun of, spat at, denied service and assaulted. Personally I like to wear somewhat gender-neutral clothes, wear my hair in what most people would describe as a feminine style, but my voice is a little deep. I also like to take part in male-dominant activities as well as female dominated ones, and sometimes my body language & mannerisms vary. Meeting me in the street, you might not be able to tell my sex. But again, why do you need to know? Unfortunately, because of this, I do suffer abuse and negative treatment from others on a frequent basis. Have I hurt anybody? No, I am simply trying to be myself. There are *many* things that need to be changed to solve all the problems I face in society because I don't fit into the neat little boxes of "male" or "female", but this is a good start to demonstrate to society that people should not be defined or prejudged based on a few letters in front of the name on their debit card. If you want to be defined by "Mr" or "Mrs" or whatever, that's fine. Just please don't force me into a box.[/p][/quote]Yes, but it's not all about you! Old Ladys Gin
  • Score: -1

8:56am Fri 26 Oct 12

Fairfax Sakes says...

I once met a rather charming fellow on the streets of Bangcock who had a similar quandry.
"Me love you long time?" he offered.
"Are you a Mr or a Miss?" I asked.
"I'll be whatever you want me to be big boy" .
Now thats what I call customer service!
Best £2.50 I ever spent, although where those ping pong balls came from i'll never know.
I once met a rather charming fellow on the streets of Bangcock who had a similar quandry. "Me love you long time?" he offered. "Are you a Mr or a Miss?" I asked. "I'll be whatever you want me to be big boy" . Now thats what I call customer service! Best £2.50 I ever spent, although where those ping pong balls came from i'll never know. Fairfax Sakes
  • Score: -1

9:10am Fri 26 Oct 12

nocando says...

Jacobdog wrote:
sexyhips69 wrote:
This is so sick! A man is a man and a woman is a woman. For Christ sake Brighton & Hove Council, get your act together before this city is made the laughing stock of the world. Please do not advertise and promote homosexuality. It is so repulsive!
Don't speak another word, freedom of speech is a privilige you don't deserve.
Ah well hang on here jacobdog. Just because you personally disagree with him doesn't deny him his right to free speech. Simple fact is that there are people in this world who genuinely feel like that and their considerations are as valid as yours or anbody elses. No amount of legislation will ever change that either thank heavens otherwise none of us would be allowed to think for ourselves. Get over yourself.
[quote][p][bold]Jacobdog[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]sexyhips69[/bold] wrote: This is so sick! A man is a man and a woman is a woman. For Christ sake Brighton & Hove Council, get your act together before this city is made the laughing stock of the world. Please do not advertise and promote homosexuality. It is so repulsive![/p][/quote]Don't speak another word, freedom of speech is a privilige you don't deserve.[/p][/quote]Ah well hang on here jacobdog. Just because you personally disagree with him doesn't deny him his right to free speech. Simple fact is that there are people in this world who genuinely feel like that and their considerations are as valid as yours or anbody elses. No amount of legislation will ever change that either thank heavens otherwise none of us would be allowed to think for ourselves. Get over yourself. nocando
  • Score: 0

9:20am Fri 26 Oct 12

Plantpot says...

Jacobdog wrote:
sexyhips69 wrote:
This is so sick! A man is a man and a woman is a woman. For Christ sake Brighton & Hove Council, get your act together before this city is made the laughing stock of the world. Please do not advertise and promote homosexuality. It is so repulsive!
Don't speak another word, freedom of speech is a privilige you don't deserve.
There is no such thing as freedom of speech in the UK. There are laws in place specifically to prevent it.

Just making a point, I don't want to insult minorities.
[quote][p][bold]Jacobdog[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]sexyhips69[/bold] wrote: This is so sick! A man is a man and a woman is a woman. For Christ sake Brighton & Hove Council, get your act together before this city is made the laughing stock of the world. Please do not advertise and promote homosexuality. It is so repulsive![/p][/quote]Don't speak another word, freedom of speech is a privilige you don't deserve.[/p][/quote]There is no such thing as freedom of speech in the UK. There are laws in place specifically to prevent it. Just making a point, I don't want to insult minorities. Plantpot
  • Score: 0

9:23am Fri 26 Oct 12

Charismatic Andrew says...

john newman wrote:
Yet again a national laughing stock. See Daily Express
This is the link to the Express article...

http://www.express.c
o.uk/posts/view/3544
53/Now-the-PC-brigad
e-want-to-stop-calli
ng-us-Mr-and-Mrs-

The final couple of paragraphs sums it up quite well......... I don't often agree with the TaxPayers’ Alliance, but they're spot on this time.......

Robert Oxley, of the TaxPayers’ Alliance, said: “There are better things the council can do that will actually help residents instead of wasting money trying to abolish Mr and Mrs.

“This speaks of skewed and out-of-touch priorities of a council more concerned about labels than what it delivers for local taxpayers.”
[quote][p][bold]john newman[/bold] wrote: Yet again a national laughing stock. See Daily Express[/p][/quote]This is the link to the Express article... http://www.express.c o.uk/posts/view/3544 53/Now-the-PC-brigad e-want-to-stop-calli ng-us-Mr-and-Mrs- The final couple of paragraphs sums it up quite well......... I don't often agree with the TaxPayers’ Alliance, but they're spot on this time....... Robert Oxley, of the TaxPayers’ Alliance, said: “There are better things the council can do that will actually help residents instead of wasting money trying to abolish Mr and Mrs. “This speaks of skewed and out-of-touch priorities of a council more concerned about labels than what it delivers for local taxpayers.” Charismatic Andrew
  • Score: 0

9:27am Fri 26 Oct 12

Plantpot says...

Strictly speaking, there is absolutely no need to call anyone by a title, just a given name will do.

But titles are lovely old-fashioned affectations that can define people very positively, for example if you're proud to be married, or you worked years for that PhD. It helps to maintain formality and distance when necessary, and not using them marks a step forward in a relationship, whether business or social. Etc.

The other point of course, is that the vast majority simply don't want to be told what to do by a very, very, tiny minority. Someone once said "Community = tiny minority, inclusiveness = the vast majority bending to the will of a tiny number of people" (although the last bit has been paraphrased as it's a family newspaper).
Strictly speaking, there is absolutely no need to call anyone by a title, just a given name will do. But titles are lovely old-fashioned affectations that can define people very positively, for example if you're proud to be married, or you worked years for that PhD. It helps to maintain formality and distance when necessary, and not using them marks a step forward in a relationship, whether business or social. Etc. The other point of course, is that the vast majority simply don't want to be told what to do by a very, very, tiny minority. Someone once said "Community = tiny minority, inclusiveness = the vast majority bending to the will of a tiny number of people" (although the last bit has been paraphrased as it's a family newspaper). Plantpot
  • Score: 0

9:37am Fri 26 Oct 12

Idontbelieveit1948 says...

A nursery rhyme for our times:-

So Mr and Mrs must go,
Our "genderqueer" friend tells us so,
But most of us say,
Whether we're straight or we're gay,
We're still Mr and Mrs you know
A nursery rhyme for our times:- So Mr and Mrs must go, Our "genderqueer" friend tells us so, But most of us say, Whether we're straight or we're gay, We're still Mr and Mrs you know Idontbelieveit1948
  • Score: 0

9:51am Fri 26 Oct 12

Morpheus says...

PorkBoat wrote:
Google "Cultural Marxism" and "The Frankfurt School" to see the kind of world that the Greens want, as well as all the main political parties do in varying degrees, even the Tories. Also, they are shovelling this crap down the throats of our kids all the way from Primary School to University. Their aim is to destroy Western civilisation and culture. Some people think this is "A Very Good Thing". These people need to swing from lamp posts.
My thinking as well about modern politics. We are too far down the Marxist road to turn back.
[quote][p][bold]PorkBoat[/bold] wrote: Google "Cultural Marxism" and "The Frankfurt School" to see the kind of world that the Greens want, as well as all the main political parties do in varying degrees, even the Tories. Also, they are shovelling this crap down the throats of our kids all the way from Primary School to University. Their aim is to destroy Western civilisation and culture. Some people think this is "A Very Good Thing". These people need to swing from lamp posts.[/p][/quote]My thinking as well about modern politics. We are too far down the Marxist road to turn back. Morpheus
  • Score: 0

9:57am Fri 26 Oct 12

saveHOVE says...

Jacobdog wrote:
Don't make the mistake of blaming the gay community for the views of some transgender activists; I've never heard any gay people mention this issue before, this is a green party idea based on misplaced ideas of what equality means. In fact most transgender people identify as male or female so I'm not sure there will be much support there either.

The equalities lobbysists do so much good work so its a shame that it gets damaged by trivial obsessions by politicians. If the council feels strongly about transgender equality then maybe they could take more action to support people going through the difficult process of finding their identity and living with prejudice.

Proposals like this make no improvement to the lives of transgender people and only make the greens look stupid. Perhaps making the 'title' box in questionnaires optional would achieve the same aim without alienating the people they need to vote for them.
I'm very much with you on this. You express the argument very sensitively too.

Phelim MacCafferty is fast shaping up as some kind of hapless Trojan Horse demolishing the Green Party from within by barging about, head-butting the public with his carelessly narrow interests. He isn't representing the city in any - dare I say it - HOLISTIC - way.

That he was elevated to the position of Deputy Leader tells you that what he does and says is supported by the rest and its too bad. He is a deeply intelligent man with a lot to offer. But he is making it clear he is a cultist by nature and a cultist in practice and using the Green Party to advance his hobbyhorse interests quite ruthlessly, relentlessly and without apology to anyone.

Pray for him. It'll enrage him.
[quote][p][bold]Jacobdog[/bold] wrote: Don't make the mistake of blaming the gay community for the views of some transgender activists; I've never heard any gay people mention this issue before, this is a green party idea based on misplaced ideas of what equality means. In fact most transgender people identify as male or female so I'm not sure there will be much support there either. The equalities lobbysists do so much good work so its a shame that it gets damaged by trivial obsessions by politicians. If the council feels strongly about transgender equality then maybe they could take more action to support people going through the difficult process of finding their identity and living with prejudice. Proposals like this make no improvement to the lives of transgender people and only make the greens look stupid. Perhaps making the 'title' box in questionnaires optional would achieve the same aim without alienating the people they need to vote for them.[/p][/quote]I'm very much with you on this. You express the argument very sensitively too. Phelim MacCafferty is fast shaping up as some kind of hapless Trojan Horse demolishing the Green Party from within by barging about, head-butting the public with his carelessly narrow interests. He isn't representing the city in any - dare I say it - HOLISTIC - way. That he was elevated to the position of Deputy Leader tells you that what he does and says is supported by the rest and its too bad. He is a deeply intelligent man with a lot to offer. But he is making it clear he is a cultist by nature and a cultist in practice and using the Green Party to advance his hobbyhorse interests quite ruthlessly, relentlessly and without apology to anyone. Pray for him. It'll enrage him. saveHOVE
  • Score: 0

10:14am Fri 26 Oct 12

saveHOVE says...

jesss2012 wrote:
Blimey what you all getting your knickers (or pants or underwear) in a twist over. Its not gonna happen is it and if it does only the council will adopt it. Is a title really that important to people. And taking a stance against the whole transgender or gay community is hardly an intelligent or necessary reaction. Just my opinion. I'm a lesbian. I'm still married some call me Mrs, some call me Ms most call me idiot. stop stressing the little things huh :)
Are you aware of the very danger that is being fashioned by the Green Party? Look at your own words "..taking a stance against the whole transgender or gay community...."

Decades of work to create a level playing field that accepts all kinds of physical realities within gender, that dictate so much of how a person behaves sexually, and all kinds of choices about whether to live as gay or straight are at risk.

The pendulum is definitely swinging the other way towards intolerance as a direct result of in-yer-face LGBT fascism on the part of a MINORITY of people who can be categorised as being LGBT.

No gay person I have ever known has transferred their personal inadequacies into an LGBT activist arena so they can feel better about what is personal rather than gender-engendered.

No gay person I have ever known would wish to be associated with any of the greedy and threatening 'rights' boundary pushing that is being so feverishly pursued now by the Green Party.

Witness what happened to poor Cllr Summers for daring to vote according to her Christian beliefs.

It is shocking to the Greens to fail to support gay marriage; but it is normal to them to sneer at a religious belief in a world that accepts religious equality.

So: equality for the PC and LGBT brigades but not for anyone else who does not belong to their club (a cult?) is the message coming across.

The Greens are POLARISING people such that they are now making increasing numbers of people "take a stance against the whole transgender or gay community". It's got to stop.
[quote][p][bold]jesss2012[/bold] wrote: Blimey what you all getting your knickers (or pants or underwear) in a twist over. Its not gonna happen is it and if it does only the council will adopt it. Is a title really that important to people. And taking a stance against the whole transgender or gay community is hardly an intelligent or necessary reaction. Just my opinion. I'm a lesbian. I'm still married some call me Mrs, some call me Ms most call me idiot. stop stressing the little things huh :)[/p][/quote]Are you aware of the very danger that is being fashioned by the Green Party? Look at your own words "..taking a stance against the whole transgender or gay community...." Decades of work to create a level playing field that accepts all kinds of physical realities within gender, that dictate so much of how a person behaves sexually, and all kinds of choices about whether to live as gay or straight are at risk. The pendulum is definitely swinging the other way towards intolerance as a direct result of in-yer-face LGBT fascism on the part of a MINORITY of people who can be categorised as being LGBT. No gay person I have ever known has transferred their personal inadequacies into an LGBT activist arena so they can feel better about what is personal rather than gender-engendered. No gay person I have ever known would wish to be associated with any of the greedy and threatening 'rights' boundary pushing that is being so feverishly pursued now by the Green Party. Witness what happened to poor Cllr Summers for daring to vote according to her Christian beliefs. It is shocking to the Greens to fail to support gay marriage; but it is normal to them to sneer at a religious belief in a world that accepts religious equality. So: equality for the PC and LGBT brigades but not for anyone else who does not belong to their club (a cult?) is the message coming across. The Greens are POLARISING people such that they are now making increasing numbers of people "take a stance against the whole transgender or gay community". It's got to stop. saveHOVE
  • Score: 0

10:17am Fri 26 Oct 12

Brian Steele says...

If they do get their petty way, then I should urge everyone to email the council every time they receive some official correspondence addressed "Dear Mx ..." to notify them that their records are incorrect and should be amended to Mr/Mrs/Miss/Ms as appropriate.

Remember that this is just another initiative from the Greens, that party of free speech and protection of beliefs that has just expelled one of its own councillors for freely expressing her beliefs.
If they do get their petty way, then I should urge everyone to email the council every time they receive some official correspondence addressed "Dear Mx ..." to notify them that their records are incorrect and should be amended to Mr/Mrs/Miss/Ms as appropriate. Remember that this is just another initiative from the Greens, that party of free speech and protection of beliefs that has just expelled one of its own councillors for freely expressing her beliefs. Brian Steele
  • Score: 0

10:33am Fri 26 Oct 12

Dealing with idiots says...

saveHOVE wrote:
Jacobdog wrote: Don't make the mistake of blaming the gay community for the views of some transgender activists; I've never heard any gay people mention this issue before, this is a green party idea based on misplaced ideas of what equality means. In fact most transgender people identify as male or female so I'm not sure there will be much support there either. The equalities lobbysists do so much good work so its a shame that it gets damaged by trivial obsessions by politicians. If the council feels strongly about transgender equality then maybe they could take more action to support people going through the difficult process of finding their identity and living with prejudice. Proposals like this make no improvement to the lives of transgender people and only make the greens look stupid. Perhaps making the 'title' box in questionnaires optional would achieve the same aim without alienating the people they need to vote for them.
I'm very much with you on this. You express the argument very sensitively too. Phelim MacCafferty is fast shaping up as some kind of hapless Trojan Horse demolishing the Green Party from within by barging about, head-butting the public with his carelessly narrow interests. He isn't representing the city in any - dare I say it - HOLISTIC - way. That he was elevated to the position of Deputy Leader tells you that what he does and says is supported by the rest and its too bad. He is a deeply intelligent man with a lot to offer. But he is making it clear he is a cultist by nature and a cultist in practice and using the Green Party to advance his hobbyhorse interests quite ruthlessly, relentlessly and without apology to anyone. Pray for him. It'll enrage him.
From my own experience I have found Phelim to be a complete cult. He appears totally disinterested in his constituents, leaving poor Ollie to do all the donkey work.
[quote][p][bold]saveHOVE[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Jacobdog[/bold] wrote: Don't make the mistake of blaming the gay community for the views of some transgender activists; I've never heard any gay people mention this issue before, this is a green party idea based on misplaced ideas of what equality means. In fact most transgender people identify as male or female so I'm not sure there will be much support there either. The equalities lobbysists do so much good work so its a shame that it gets damaged by trivial obsessions by politicians. If the council feels strongly about transgender equality then maybe they could take more action to support people going through the difficult process of finding their identity and living with prejudice. Proposals like this make no improvement to the lives of transgender people and only make the greens look stupid. Perhaps making the 'title' box in questionnaires optional would achieve the same aim without alienating the people they need to vote for them.[/p][/quote]I'm very much with you on this. You express the argument very sensitively too. Phelim MacCafferty is fast shaping up as some kind of hapless Trojan Horse demolishing the Green Party from within by barging about, head-butting the public with his carelessly narrow interests. He isn't representing the city in any - dare I say it - HOLISTIC - way. That he was elevated to the position of Deputy Leader tells you that what he does and says is supported by the rest and its too bad. He is a deeply intelligent man with a lot to offer. But he is making it clear he is a cultist by nature and a cultist in practice and using the Green Party to advance his hobbyhorse interests quite ruthlessly, relentlessly and without apology to anyone. Pray for him. It'll enrage him.[/p][/quote]From my own experience I have found Phelim to be a complete cult. He appears totally disinterested in his constituents, leaving poor Ollie to do all the donkey work. Dealing with idiots
  • Score: 0

10:34am Fri 26 Oct 12

DB Brighton says...

Great!
If I don't want to be presumptuous in using someone's first name, how do I pronounce "Mx"?
Great! If I don't want to be presumptuous in using someone's first name, how do I pronounce "Mx"? DB Brighton
  • Score: 0

10:50am Fri 26 Oct 12

saveHOVE says...

whatmost of us think wrote:
Transgender (to my understanding) means being unsure of your sex even though you may be physically male or female. It does not mean you are gay, like dressing up as the opposite sex or want to become a person of the opposite sex to what you appear to be.
Are the people who raised this truly transgender rather than transvestite or transsexual? Or just stirring things up for the sake of it?
I am Mr, and proud to be. If someone does not want to be designated Mr, Mrs etc then let them come up with a new title. But do not stop the majority calling themselves what they want to. Equality works all ways.
Do you know the word 'hermaphrodite'? How would you deal with the situation if you had a baby and learned your child was born with the equipment of both sexes ?

Whilst most of us are born with a clear physical identity - male, female, there are hormonal, physical variations along a spectrum and a lot of mental and emotional pain is experienced by people whose sexuality is not explicitly male or female, whose hormones, etc. whose hardwiring can mean that they are not able to relate sexually with the opposite sex (if they have a clear sex of their own), etc. etc.

Decades of campaigning and legal changes (being homosexual is still illegal in some countries) to gain recognition of difference and to gain respect for difference (racial too) has been needed to gain a level playing field for people in this situation.

Please be careful of how you argue against this LGBT activist demand which unfairly seeks to erase difference itself.
[quote][p][bold]whatmost of us think[/bold] wrote: Transgender (to my understanding) means being unsure of your sex even though you may be physically male or female. It does not mean you are gay, like dressing up as the opposite sex or want to become a person of the opposite sex to what you appear to be. Are the people who raised this truly transgender rather than transvestite or transsexual? Or just stirring things up for the sake of it? I am Mr, and proud to be. If someone does not want to be designated Mr, Mrs etc then let them come up with a new title. But do not stop the majority calling themselves what they want to. Equality works all ways.[/p][/quote]Do you know the word 'hermaphrodite'? How would you deal with the situation if you had a baby and learned your child was born with the equipment of both sexes ? Whilst most of us are born with a clear physical identity - male, female, there are hormonal, physical variations along a spectrum and a lot of mental and emotional pain is experienced by people whose sexuality is not explicitly male or female, whose hormones, etc. whose hardwiring can mean that they are not able to relate sexually with the opposite sex (if they have a clear sex of their own), etc. etc. Decades of campaigning and legal changes (being homosexual is still illegal in some countries) to gain recognition of difference and to gain respect for difference (racial too) has been needed to gain a level playing field for people in this situation. Please be careful of how you argue against this LGBT activist demand which unfairly seeks to erase difference itself. saveHOVE
  • Score: 0

10:57am Fri 26 Oct 12

saveHOVE says...

Phelim, if you are reading this: you are hurting the very people whose interests you seek to advance. Fact.
Phelim, if you are reading this: you are hurting the very people whose interests you seek to advance. Fact. saveHOVE
  • Score: 0

11:11am Fri 26 Oct 12

saveHOVE says...

Just asking! wrote:
Is this suggestion coming from the same Green Party that insists on having one each of male and female leaders/deputy leaders. No sign of gender neutrality there - Cllr Philips was eliminated from the Deputy Leadership election purely on the basis of her gender.
In some ways the biggest crime of all that the Green Party can be charged with is unconsciousness (a PC sin!) and lack of self-consciousness (a PC hanging offence). Utterly blind to their own hypocrisy.
[quote][p][bold]Just asking![/bold] wrote: Is this suggestion coming from the same Green Party that insists on having one each of male and female leaders/deputy leaders. No sign of gender neutrality there - Cllr Philips was eliminated from the Deputy Leadership election purely on the basis of her gender.[/p][/quote]In some ways the biggest crime of all that the Green Party can be charged with is unconsciousness (a PC sin!) and lack of self-consciousness (a PC hanging offence). Utterly blind to their own hypocrisy. saveHOVE
  • Score: 0

11:39am Fri 26 Oct 12

Charismatic Andrew says...

Derek Batey would be turning in his grave! (if he was dead that is - which I'm not sure he is).
Derek Batey would be turning in his grave! (if he was dead that is - which I'm not sure he is). Charismatic Andrew
  • Score: 0

12:17pm Fri 26 Oct 12

Ced says...

Personally i would refuse to open any tax form that was addressed to "Mx Ced" and return it saying "not known at this address, this is the residence of Mr Ced, no Mx Ced lives at this address.
Personally i would refuse to open any tax form that was addressed to "Mx Ced" and return it saying "not known at this address, this is the residence of Mr Ced, no Mx Ced lives at this address. Ced
  • Score: 0

12:36pm Fri 26 Oct 12

Ced says...

DB Brighton wrote:
Great!
If I don't want to be presumptuous in using someone's first name, how do I pronounce "Mx"?
"Muks" perhaps
Too many of the good people of Brighton voted Green and got these crackpot, marxist social engineers in power who should be sectioned under the mental health act. Oh well live and learn.
[quote][p][bold]DB Brighton[/bold] wrote: Great! If I don't want to be presumptuous in using someone's first name, how do I pronounce "Mx"?[/p][/quote]"Muks" perhaps Too many of the good people of Brighton voted Green and got these crackpot, marxist social engineers in power who should be sectioned under the mental health act. Oh well live and learn. Ced
  • Score: -1

3:11pm Fri 26 Oct 12

brightonbreezy says...

I am an old man who cares not one iota what people choose to wear, or indeed whether they physically have poles or holes, but I DO care about wasting time and money on trivialities. My MRS and I are both J, so please send everything to us as MR and MRS, so we don't have any arguments about whose post we are opening. Thanks!
I am an old man who cares not one iota what people choose to wear, or indeed whether they physically have poles or holes, but I DO care about wasting time and money on trivialities. My MRS and I are both J, so please send everything to us as MR and MRS, so we don't have any arguments about whose post we are opening. Thanks! brightonbreezy
  • Score: 0

3:15pm Fri 26 Oct 12

NickBrt says...

The greens favourite caravan dwelling people are in the main very proud of their marital status and like to be called Mr and Mrs, has Mrs MacCafferty forgotten that? How can she want to alienate such a group of people she clearly adores? P.S. Mrs MacCafferty appears to have a bit of a facial hair problem for a Lady...
The greens favourite caravan dwelling people are in the main very proud of their marital status and like to be called Mr and Mrs, has Mrs MacCafferty forgotten that? How can she want to alienate such a group of people she clearly adores? P.S. Mrs MacCafferty appears to have a bit of a facial hair problem for a Lady... NickBrt
  • Score: 0

4:15pm Fri 26 Oct 12

kayleighswift says...

see and speak sense wrote:
kayleighswift wrote:
The only people that *really* need to know my gender/sex are my doctor and my partner.

Having lived as both sexes, I can clearly state that I don't identify fully with either. But society forces me to pick one. I have to choose one and then I have to advertise it - on my ID, my debit cards, my clothes, my hair, my voice, the way I act, the things I'm in to... the minute I have one of those that doesn't match the others I'm suddenly a freak. Somebody who should be made fun of, spat at, denied service and assaulted.

Personally I like to wear somewhat gender-neutral clothes, wear my hair in what most people would describe as a feminine style, but my voice is a little deep. I also like to take part in male-dominant activities as well as female dominated ones, and sometimes my body language & mannerisms vary. Meeting me in the street, you might not be able to tell my sex. But again, why do you need to know? Unfortunately, because of this, I do suffer abuse and negative treatment from others on a frequent basis. Have I hurt anybody? No, I am simply trying to be myself.

There are *many* things that need to be changed to solve all the problems I face in society because I don't fit into the neat little boxes of "male" or "female", but this is a good start to demonstrate to society that people should not be defined or prejudged based on a few letters in front of the name on their debit card.

If you want to be defined by "Mr" or "Mrs" or whatever, that's fine. Just please don't force me into a box.
Isn't it interesting that you state" please don't force me into a box"... Yet the rest of Brighton and Hove is forced into a box by the removal by mr and mrs ??
Or are we now facing a new reality that actually those who are happy with their gender , title,etc are the majority grouping that are victimised. . Being made a nothing for the purpose of equality??
This greens sounds more and more like animal farm!!
Isn't it interesting that you state" please don't force me into a box"... Yet the rest of Brighton and Hove is forced into a box by the removal by mr and mrs ??

Are they? Really? I can't tell if you're being serious or not. How does the removal of your gender force you into a box? Mr, Mrs, Miss and Ms are just labels to say what gender you are. Putting that label on a person is akin to sorting them in to a box. Taking those labels off forms doesn't mean you don't get to use them if you so wish - put it in front of your name if it really bothers you that much. None of those labels fit me, so I should be free not to have to use them.

Or are we now facing a new reality that actually those who are happy with their gender , title,etc are the majority grouping that are victimised.

I'm perfectly happy with my gender, it's society that isn't. I simply don't want a title, and don't want to be forced to use one.

Seriously, how are you being 'victimised' by not being required to do something?! Makes no sense.
[quote][p][bold]see and speak sense[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]kayleighswift[/bold] wrote: The only people that *really* need to know my gender/sex are my doctor and my partner. Having lived as both sexes, I can clearly state that I don't identify fully with either. But society forces me to pick one. I have to choose one and then I have to advertise it - on my ID, my debit cards, my clothes, my hair, my voice, the way I act, the things I'm in to... the minute I have one of those that doesn't match the others I'm suddenly a freak. Somebody who should be made fun of, spat at, denied service and assaulted. Personally I like to wear somewhat gender-neutral clothes, wear my hair in what most people would describe as a feminine style, but my voice is a little deep. I also like to take part in male-dominant activities as well as female dominated ones, and sometimes my body language & mannerisms vary. Meeting me in the street, you might not be able to tell my sex. But again, why do you need to know? Unfortunately, because of this, I do suffer abuse and negative treatment from others on a frequent basis. Have I hurt anybody? No, I am simply trying to be myself. There are *many* things that need to be changed to solve all the problems I face in society because I don't fit into the neat little boxes of "male" or "female", but this is a good start to demonstrate to society that people should not be defined or prejudged based on a few letters in front of the name on their debit card. If you want to be defined by "Mr" or "Mrs" or whatever, that's fine. Just please don't force me into a box.[/p][/quote]Isn't it interesting that you state" please don't force me into a box"... Yet the rest of Brighton and Hove is forced into a box by the removal by mr and mrs ?? Or are we now facing a new reality that actually those who are happy with their gender , title,etc are the majority grouping that are victimised. . Being made a nothing for the purpose of equality?? This greens sounds more and more like animal farm!![/p][/quote][quote]Isn't it interesting that you state" please don't force me into a box"... Yet the rest of Brighton and Hove is forced into a box by the removal by mr and mrs ??[/quote] Are they? Really? I can't tell if you're being serious or not. How does the removal of your gender force you into a box? Mr, Mrs, Miss and Ms are just labels to say what gender you are. Putting that label on a person is akin to sorting them in to a box. Taking those labels off forms doesn't mean you don't get to use them if you so wish - put it in front of your name if it really bothers you that much. None of those labels fit me, so I should be free not to have to use them. [quote]Or are we now facing a new reality that actually those who are happy with their gender , title,etc are the majority grouping that are victimised.[/quote] I'm perfectly happy with my gender, it's society that isn't. I simply don't want a title, and don't want to be forced to use one. Seriously, how are you being 'victimised' by not being required to do something?! Makes no sense. kayleighswift
  • Score: 0

4:16pm Fri 26 Oct 12

kayleighswift says...

Old Ladys Gin wrote:
kayleighswift wrote:
The only people that *really* need to know my gender/sex are my doctor and my partner.

Having lived as both sexes, I can clearly state that I don't identify fully with either. But society forces me to pick one. I have to choose one and then I have to advertise it - on my ID, my debit cards, my clothes, my hair, my voice, the way I act, the things I'm in to... the minute I have one of those that doesn't match the others I'm suddenly a freak. Somebody who should be made fun of, spat at, denied service and assaulted.

Personally I like to wear somewhat gender-neutral clothes, wear my hair in what most people would describe as a feminine style, but my voice is a little deep. I also like to take part in male-dominant activities as well as female dominated ones, and sometimes my body language & mannerisms vary. Meeting me in the street, you might not be able to tell my sex. But again, why do you need to know? Unfortunately, because of this, I do suffer abuse and negative treatment from others on a frequent basis. Have I hurt anybody? No, I am simply trying to be myself.

There are *many* things that need to be changed to solve all the problems I face in society because I don't fit into the neat little boxes of "male" or "female", but this is a good start to demonstrate to society that people should not be defined or prejudged based on a few letters in front of the name on their debit card.

If you want to be defined by "Mr" or "Mrs" or whatever, that's fine. Just please don't force me into a box.
Yes, but it's not all about you!
As a tax paying citizen of the area, yes - yes it is about me.

Public services should be inclusive of everybody - not exclusive to those who wish to define themselves by their gender.
[quote][p][bold]Old Ladys Gin[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]kayleighswift[/bold] wrote: The only people that *really* need to know my gender/sex are my doctor and my partner. Having lived as both sexes, I can clearly state that I don't identify fully with either. But society forces me to pick one. I have to choose one and then I have to advertise it - on my ID, my debit cards, my clothes, my hair, my voice, the way I act, the things I'm in to... the minute I have one of those that doesn't match the others I'm suddenly a freak. Somebody who should be made fun of, spat at, denied service and assaulted. Personally I like to wear somewhat gender-neutral clothes, wear my hair in what most people would describe as a feminine style, but my voice is a little deep. I also like to take part in male-dominant activities as well as female dominated ones, and sometimes my body language & mannerisms vary. Meeting me in the street, you might not be able to tell my sex. But again, why do you need to know? Unfortunately, because of this, I do suffer abuse and negative treatment from others on a frequent basis. Have I hurt anybody? No, I am simply trying to be myself. There are *many* things that need to be changed to solve all the problems I face in society because I don't fit into the neat little boxes of "male" or "female", but this is a good start to demonstrate to society that people should not be defined or prejudged based on a few letters in front of the name on their debit card. If you want to be defined by "Mr" or "Mrs" or whatever, that's fine. Just please don't force me into a box.[/p][/quote]Yes, but it's not all about you![/p][/quote]As a tax paying citizen of the area, yes - yes it is about me. Public services should be inclusive of everybody - not exclusive to those who wish to define themselves by their gender. kayleighswift
  • Score: 1

4:19pm Fri 26 Oct 12

kayleighswift says...

brightonbreezy wrote:
I am an old man who cares not one iota what people choose to wear, or indeed whether they physically have poles or holes, but I DO care about wasting time and money on trivialities. My MRS and I are both J, so please send everything to us as MR and MRS, so we don't have any arguments about whose post we are opening. Thanks!
Are you first names both just "J"? How very odd, most of us have names that are more than one letter long. It's quite a coincidence that you both share such a unique name!
[quote][p][bold]brightonbreezy[/bold] wrote: I am an old man who cares not one iota what people choose to wear, or indeed whether they physically have poles or holes, but I DO care about wasting time and money on trivialities. My MRS and I are both J, so please send everything to us as MR and MRS, so we don't have any arguments about whose post we are opening. Thanks![/p][/quote]Are you first names both just "J"? How very odd, most of us have names that are more than one letter long. It's quite a coincidence that you both share such a unique name! kayleighswift
  • Score: 0

5:24pm Fri 26 Oct 12

Ced says...

kayleighswift wrote:
see and speak sense wrote:
kayleighswift wrote:
The only people that *really* need to know my gender/sex are my doctor and my partner.

Having lived as both sexes, I can clearly state that I don't identify fully with either. But society forces me to pick one. I have to choose one and then I have to advertise it - on my ID, my debit cards, my clothes, my hair, my voice, the way I act, the things I'm in to... the minute I have one of those that doesn't match the others I'm suddenly a freak. Somebody who should be made fun of, spat at, denied service and assaulted.

Personally I like to wear somewhat gender-neutral clothes, wear my hair in what most people would describe as a feminine style, but my voice is a little deep. I also like to take part in male-dominant activities as well as female dominated ones, and sometimes my body language & mannerisms vary. Meeting me in the street, you might not be able to tell my sex. But again, why do you need to know? Unfortunately, because of this, I do suffer abuse and negative treatment from others on a frequent basis. Have I hurt anybody? No, I am simply trying to be myself.

There are *many* things that need to be changed to solve all the problems I face in society because I don't fit into the neat little boxes of "male" or "female", but this is a good start to demonstrate to society that people should not be defined or prejudged based on a few letters in front of the name on their debit card.

If you want to be defined by "Mr" or "Mrs" or whatever, that's fine. Just please don't force me into a box.
Isn't it interesting that you state" please don't force me into a box"... Yet the rest of Brighton and Hove is forced into a box by the removal by mr and mrs ??
Or are we now facing a new reality that actually those who are happy with their gender , title,etc are the majority grouping that are victimised. . Being made a nothing for the purpose of equality??
This greens sounds more and more like animal farm!!
Isn't it interesting that you state" please don't force me into a box"... Yet the rest of Brighton and Hove is forced into a box by the removal by mr and mrs ??

Are they? Really? I can't tell if you're being serious or not. How does the removal of your gender force you into a box? Mr, Mrs, Miss and Ms are just labels to say what gender you are. Putting that label on a person is akin to sorting them in to a box. Taking those labels off forms doesn't mean you don't get to use them if you so wish - put it in front of your name if it really bothers you that much. None of those labels fit me, so I should be free not to have to use them.

Or are we now facing a new reality that actually those who are happy with their gender , title,etc are the majority grouping that are victimised.

I'm perfectly happy with my gender, it's society that isn't. I simply don't want a title, and don't want to be forced to use one.

Seriously, how are you being 'victimised' by not being required to do something?! Makes no sense.
Because it would far more logical sense for the tiny minority who do not wish to be identified by gender to have their records updated than for blanket offence to the majority by having the right to titles by their gender removed. You are forcing the majority into a genderless box they do not wish to be pigeon holed in.
[quote][p][bold]kayleighswift[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]see and speak sense[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]kayleighswift[/bold] wrote: The only people that *really* need to know my gender/sex are my doctor and my partner. Having lived as both sexes, I can clearly state that I don't identify fully with either. But society forces me to pick one. I have to choose one and then I have to advertise it - on my ID, my debit cards, my clothes, my hair, my voice, the way I act, the things I'm in to... the minute I have one of those that doesn't match the others I'm suddenly a freak. Somebody who should be made fun of, spat at, denied service and assaulted. Personally I like to wear somewhat gender-neutral clothes, wear my hair in what most people would describe as a feminine style, but my voice is a little deep. I also like to take part in male-dominant activities as well as female dominated ones, and sometimes my body language & mannerisms vary. Meeting me in the street, you might not be able to tell my sex. But again, why do you need to know? Unfortunately, because of this, I do suffer abuse and negative treatment from others on a frequent basis. Have I hurt anybody? No, I am simply trying to be myself. There are *many* things that need to be changed to solve all the problems I face in society because I don't fit into the neat little boxes of "male" or "female", but this is a good start to demonstrate to society that people should not be defined or prejudged based on a few letters in front of the name on their debit card. If you want to be defined by "Mr" or "Mrs" or whatever, that's fine. Just please don't force me into a box.[/p][/quote]Isn't it interesting that you state" please don't force me into a box"... Yet the rest of Brighton and Hove is forced into a box by the removal by mr and mrs ?? Or are we now facing a new reality that actually those who are happy with their gender , title,etc are the majority grouping that are victimised. . Being made a nothing for the purpose of equality?? This greens sounds more and more like animal farm!![/p][/quote][quote]Isn't it interesting that you state" please don't force me into a box"... Yet the rest of Brighton and Hove is forced into a box by the removal by mr and mrs ??[/quote] Are they? Really? I can't tell if you're being serious or not. How does the removal of your gender force you into a box? Mr, Mrs, Miss and Ms are just labels to say what gender you are. Putting that label on a person is akin to sorting them in to a box. Taking those labels off forms doesn't mean you don't get to use them if you so wish - put it in front of your name if it really bothers you that much. None of those labels fit me, so I should be free not to have to use them. [quote]Or are we now facing a new reality that actually those who are happy with their gender , title,etc are the majority grouping that are victimised.[/quote] I'm perfectly happy with my gender, it's society that isn't. I simply don't want a title, and don't want to be forced to use one. Seriously, how are you being 'victimised' by not being required to do something?! Makes no sense.[/p][/quote]Because it would far more logical sense for the tiny minority who do not wish to be identified by gender to have their records updated than for blanket offence to the majority by having the right to titles by their gender removed. You are forcing the majority into a genderless box they do not wish to be pigeon holed in. Ced
  • Score: 0

5:51pm Fri 26 Oct 12

MuammarQaddafi says...

As an LGBT person, one of those on whose behalf all this shouting is happening, I let people address me as Ms, Mr, Mrs, or with no title at all. I don't mind and it lets me know how THEY think of me by what title they choose. Just as you can choose Mr, Mrs, Miss, or Ms now, simply add another tick box that says No Title. Sorted.
As an LGBT person, one of those on whose behalf all this shouting is happening, I let people address me as Ms, Mr, Mrs, or with no title at all. I don't mind and it lets me know how THEY think of me by what title they choose. Just as you can choose Mr, Mrs, Miss, or Ms now, simply add another tick box that says No Title. Sorted. MuammarQaddafi
  • Score: 0

7:38pm Fri 26 Oct 12

george smith says...

saveHOVE wrote:
whatmost of us think wrote: Transgender (to my understanding) means being unsure of your sex even though you may be physically male or female. It does not mean you are gay, like dressing up as the opposite sex or want to become a person of the opposite sex to what you appear to be. Are the people who raised this truly transgender rather than transvestite or transsexual? Or just stirring things up for the sake of it? I am Mr, and proud to be. If someone does not want to be designated Mr, Mrs etc then let them come up with a new title. But do not stop the majority calling themselves what they want to. Equality works all ways.
Do you know the word 'hermaphrodite'? How would you deal with the situation if you had a baby and learned your child was born with the equipment of both sexes ? Whilst most of us are born with a clear physical identity - male, female, there are hormonal, physical variations along a spectrum and a lot of mental and emotional pain is experienced by people whose sexuality is not explicitly male or female, whose hormones, etc. whose hardwiring can mean that they are not able to relate sexually with the opposite sex (if they have a clear sex of their own), etc. etc. Decades of campaigning and legal changes (being homosexual is still illegal in some countries) to gain recognition of difference and to gain respect for difference (racial too) has been needed to gain a level playing field for people in this situation. Please be careful of how you argue against this LGBT activist demand which unfairly seeks to erase difference itself.
What does the DNA come up with? Look on the positive side, now the Nationals have got hold of this, maybe people around the country will learn from the situation here and not make the same mistake.
[quote][p][bold]saveHOVE[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]whatmost of us think[/bold] wrote: Transgender (to my understanding) means being unsure of your sex even though you may be physically male or female. It does not mean you are gay, like dressing up as the opposite sex or want to become a person of the opposite sex to what you appear to be. Are the people who raised this truly transgender rather than transvestite or transsexual? Or just stirring things up for the sake of it? I am Mr, and proud to be. If someone does not want to be designated Mr, Mrs etc then let them come up with a new title. But do not stop the majority calling themselves what they want to. Equality works all ways.[/p][/quote]Do you know the word 'hermaphrodite'? How would you deal with the situation if you had a baby and learned your child was born with the equipment of both sexes ? Whilst most of us are born with a clear physical identity - male, female, there are hormonal, physical variations along a spectrum and a lot of mental and emotional pain is experienced by people whose sexuality is not explicitly male or female, whose hormones, etc. whose hardwiring can mean that they are not able to relate sexually with the opposite sex (if they have a clear sex of their own), etc. etc. Decades of campaigning and legal changes (being homosexual is still illegal in some countries) to gain recognition of difference and to gain respect for difference (racial too) has been needed to gain a level playing field for people in this situation. Please be careful of how you argue against this LGBT activist demand which unfairly seeks to erase difference itself.[/p][/quote]What does the DNA come up with? Look on the positive side, now the Nationals have got hold of this, maybe people around the country will learn from the situation here and not make the same mistake. george smith
  • Score: 0

9:54pm Fri 26 Oct 12

Minion says...

how about instead of adressing everyone as mx xxxxx, give an option to choose a title such as mr, mrs, ms, mx etc. then people who wish to be gender neutral or just do not want to disclose their gender can opt for mx. how do you even pronounce mx? it would be weird to ask for mx smith on the phone for example.
how about instead of adressing everyone as mx xxxxx, give an option to choose a title such as mr, mrs, ms, mx etc. then people who wish to be gender neutral or just do not want to disclose their gender can opt for mx. how do you even pronounce mx? it would be weird to ask for mx smith on the phone for example. Minion
  • Score: 0

12:30pm Sat 27 Oct 12

Number Six says...

I think I want to go back to being addressed as "Number Six, Esquire
I think I want to go back to being addressed as "Number Six, Esquire Number Six
  • Score: 0

1:05pm Sat 27 Oct 12

saveHOVE says...

MuammarQaddafi wrote:
As an LGBT person, one of those on whose behalf all this shouting is happening, I let people address me as Ms, Mr, Mrs, or with no title at all. I don't mind and it lets me know how THEY think of me by what title they choose. Just as you can choose Mr, Mrs, Miss, or Ms now, simply add another tick box that says No Title. Sorted.
You are very sensible.

Good suggestion!

But so the council does not have to spend money on officer time shredding stationery and more money replacing its offending forms with LGBT-friendly options perhaps the half dozen or so people affected could draw their own box and put the words 'no title' beside it.
[quote][p][bold]MuammarQaddafi[/bold] wrote: As an LGBT person, one of those on whose behalf all this shouting is happening, I let people address me as Ms, Mr, Mrs, or with no title at all. I don't mind and it lets me know how THEY think of me by what title they choose. Just as you can choose Mr, Mrs, Miss, or Ms now, simply add another tick box that says No Title. Sorted.[/p][/quote]You are very sensible. Good suggestion! But so the council does not have to spend money on officer time shredding stationery and more money replacing its offending forms with LGBT-friendly options perhaps the half dozen or so people affected could draw their own box and put the words 'no title' beside it. saveHOVE
  • Score: 0

2:01pm Sat 27 Oct 12

anon01273 says...

Chill out people. The council will add an additional box onto their forms. Where you previously had to choose between Mr, Ms, Mrs, Miss, Dr you'll still get to pick either of those OR, if you prefer, you can opt for 'no title'. If you opt for 'no title', letters will be addressed as John Smith as opposed to Mr Smith. Note that nobody will force this upon you if you have specified that you wish to be known as Mr Smith. However, I personally fail to see why being addressed as John Smith would be a problem, unless you are a Lord...

Those who prefer to be addressed as Mrs/Mr will continue to be addressed that way so why does it bother you so much whether OTHER PEOPLE prefer to be addressed as something else? If you don't like the "MX" title, don't pick it. Simple. Some people seem to think that the council will be forcing the title MX onto everybody. This is certainly NOT the case.
Chill out people. The council will add an additional box onto their forms. Where you previously had to choose between Mr, Ms, Mrs, Miss, Dr you'll still get to pick either of those OR, if you prefer, you can opt for 'no title'. If you opt for 'no title', letters will be addressed as John Smith as opposed to Mr Smith. Note that nobody will force this upon you if you have specified that you wish to be known as Mr Smith. However, I personally fail to see why being addressed as John Smith would be a problem, unless you are a Lord... Those who prefer to be addressed as Mrs/Mr will continue to be addressed that way so why does it bother you so much whether OTHER PEOPLE prefer to be addressed as something else? If you don't like the "MX" title, don't pick it. Simple. Some people seem to think that the council will be forcing the title MX onto everybody. This is certainly NOT the case. anon01273
  • Score: 1

3:51pm Sat 27 Oct 12

BeingMe says...

Such hate, such fragility, that the simple mistake that humans are 100% female or 100% male might destroy us all. No-one is denied having a title, providing it is accurate. You can change your title by deed poll. But not call yourself "Lord" or "Sir" if you have not been granted those titles. If you are neither "Mr" nor "Mrs" being forced to state and repeat a falsehood is wrong. If you are "Mrs" that's fine, no-one is stopping you. This proposal is not undermining social order it is facing truth. My truth is that you may not call me "Lord". Neither may you call me "Mr". My birth certificate was a mistake. Somewhere in the middle I most certainly did not want to have to state anything at all. It was offensive and presumptuous, and really nothing at all to do with anyone else. If your sky is about to fall in as a result, just read the sane and objective comments here, not the hate.
Such hate, such fragility, that the simple mistake that humans are 100% female or 100% male might destroy us all. No-one is denied having a title, providing it is accurate. You can change your title by deed poll. But not call yourself "Lord" or "Sir" if you have not been granted those titles. If you are neither "Mr" nor "Mrs" being forced to state and repeat a falsehood is wrong. If you are "Mrs" that's fine, no-one is stopping you. This proposal is not undermining social order it is facing truth. My truth is that you may not call me "Lord". Neither may you call me "Mr". My birth certificate was a mistake. Somewhere in the middle I most certainly did not want to have to state anything at all. It was offensive and presumptuous, and really nothing at all to do with anyone else. If your sky is about to fall in as a result, just read the sane and objective comments here, not the hate. BeingMe
  • Score: 1

5:08pm Sat 27 Oct 12

Minion says...

to the two posters above me, the reason everyone is freaking out is because the artical says:

"All titles could be scrapped from official council forms and paperwork after transgender activists complained the names forced people to choose between genders. "

if ALL titles are SCRAPPED, then no one gets to have one, not even the people that want one.
to the two posters above me, the reason everyone is freaking out is because the artical says: "All titles could be scrapped from official council forms and paperwork after transgender activists complained the names forced people to choose between genders. " if ALL titles are SCRAPPED, then no one gets to have one, not even the people that want one. Minion
  • Score: 0

5:22pm Sat 27 Oct 12

Sam.A.E.L. says...

This article seems to be based on a misunderstanding: The council is not banning titles, nor are they removing them completely - they are merely making it and OPTION to remove your title if you wish.

Also, let's get the funding part right: The trans scrutiny wasn't summoned just to get rid of titles in the city, the scrutiny is working across a range of different issues: working with mental health to lower suicide rates, educating people on transgender issues, lowering hate crime towards trans people (many transgender people face a very real risk of being murdered), making health care more accessible etc.
If you want to get productively involved, here's the link to the scrutiny on BHCC website: http://www.brighton-
hove.gov.uk/index.cf
m?request=c1210574
This article seems to be based on a misunderstanding: The council is not banning titles, nor are they removing them completely - they are merely making it and OPTION to remove your title if you wish. Also, let's get the funding part right: The trans scrutiny wasn't summoned just to get rid of titles in the city, the scrutiny is working across a range of different issues: working with mental health to lower suicide rates, educating people on transgender issues, lowering hate crime towards trans people (many transgender people face a very real risk of being murdered), making health care more accessible etc. If you want to get productively involved, here's the link to the scrutiny on BHCC website: http://www.brighton- hove.gov.uk/index.cf m?request=c1210574 Sam.A.E.L.
  • Score: 1

5:50pm Sat 27 Oct 12

Studente says...

I love the way people are telling the 'loonies' to stop telling them how to live their lives by getting their own way.

What point does Mr, Mrs, Ms etc actually serve other then identifying a gender or marital status. It doesn't confirm that your relationship means something, it doesn't solidify that your penis exists. No, they're old redundant relics of the past.

I'm not completely for getting rid of them all together, if you wanna be Lady Susan Boyle 2 go for it. But by forcing another people to be boldly labelled male, female, young, old, married, single or qualified (dr etc), rich (lord), then you are the ones forcing your 'agenda' onto others.

Go take a chill pill and maybe get on with your lives and stop worry about the lgbtq metaphorical **** that you feel is buggering you.
I love the way people are telling the 'loonies' to stop telling them how to live their lives by getting their own way. What point does Mr, Mrs, Ms etc actually serve other then identifying a gender or marital status. It doesn't confirm that your relationship means something, it doesn't solidify that your penis exists. No, they're old redundant relics of the past. I'm not completely for getting rid of them all together, if you wanna be Lady Susan Boyle 2 go for it. But by forcing another people to be boldly labelled male, female, young, old, married, single or qualified (dr etc), rich (lord), then you are the ones forcing your 'agenda' onto others. Go take a chill pill and maybe get on with your lives and stop worry about the lgbtq metaphorical **** that you feel is buggering you. Studente
  • Score: 1

6:19pm Sat 27 Oct 12

power_ranger says...

Captain will do just nicely, thanks.
Captain will do just nicely, thanks. power_ranger
  • Score: 0

12:06am Sun 28 Oct 12

deedles says...

If we can't use 'Queen' or 'Ma am'.(they imply female) Do we just call her Elizabeth?
Sounds a bit familiar to someone wearing a crown.
If we can't use 'Queen' or 'Ma am'.(they imply female) Do we just call her Elizabeth? Sounds a bit familiar to someone wearing a crown. deedles
  • Score: 0

7:29am Sun 28 Oct 12

chico234 says...

Apart from the very reasonableletter from Kaylieghswift,, all the contributions to this debate you have chosen to put on your website are opposed to the Mr./Mrs. suggestion.

With such a number of letters this can only be a reflection of editorial policy.
While you are happy to print a recomendation that 'the greens should swing from lamp posts', you have not the grace to produce a balanced selection of letters.

If your response to this is that this represents the postbag you received, it would suggest that your contributors are a uniformly and alarmingly narrow-minded group of people, which I doubt is the case.
Apart from the very reasonableletter from Kaylieghswift,, all the contributions to this debate you have chosen to put on your website are opposed to the Mr./Mrs. suggestion. With such a number of letters this can only be a reflection of editorial policy. While you are happy to print a recomendation that 'the greens should swing from lamp posts', you have not the grace to produce a balanced selection of letters. If your response to this is that this represents the postbag you received, it would suggest that your contributors are a uniformly and alarmingly narrow-minded group of people, which I doubt is the case. chico234
  • Score: 0

9:50am Sun 28 Oct 12

Valerie Paynter says...

chico234 wrote:
Apart from the very reasonableletter from Kaylieghswift,, all the contributions to this debate you have chosen to put on your website are opposed to the Mr./Mrs. suggestion.

With such a number of letters this can only be a reflection of editorial policy.
While you are happy to print a recomendation that 'the greens should swing from lamp posts', you have not the grace to produce a balanced selection of letters.

If your response to this is that this represents the postbag you received, it would suggest that your contributors are a uniformly and alarmingly narrow-minded group of people, which I doubt is the case.
THESE COMMENTS ARE NOT EDITED LETTERS !

The Argus has not removed any pro comments - would not, unless libellous or obscene, as a rule.

You are looking at public reaction as it is. If you can cough up evidence from a person YOU KNOW, who is identifiable in some way who has put a pro post here and had it removed, do tell us with another post of your own - which you will have noticed has not been removed.

Or have you posted this comment in some sad attempt at getting away with black propaganda you think some fool will believe?
[quote][p][bold]chico234[/bold] wrote: Apart from the very reasonableletter from Kaylieghswift,, all the contributions to this debate you have chosen to put on your website are opposed to the Mr./Mrs. suggestion. With such a number of letters this can only be a reflection of editorial policy. While you are happy to print a recomendation that 'the greens should swing from lamp posts', you have not the grace to produce a balanced selection of letters. If your response to this is that this represents the postbag you received, it would suggest that your contributors are a uniformly and alarmingly narrow-minded group of people, which I doubt is the case.[/p][/quote]THESE COMMENTS ARE NOT EDITED LETTERS ! The Argus has not removed any pro comments - would not, unless libellous or obscene, as a rule. You are looking at public reaction as it is. If you can cough up evidence from a person YOU KNOW, who is identifiable in some way who has put a pro post here and had it removed, do tell us with another post of your own - which you will have noticed has not been removed. Or have you posted this comment in some sad attempt at getting away with black propaganda you think some fool will believe? Valerie Paynter
  • Score: 0

9:58am Sun 28 Oct 12

Valerie Paynter says...

Sam.A.E.L. wrote:
This article seems to be based on a misunderstanding: The council is not banning titles, nor are they removing them completely - they are merely making it and OPTION to remove your title if you wish.

Also, let's get the funding part right: The trans scrutiny wasn't summoned just to get rid of titles in the city, the scrutiny is working across a range of different issues: working with mental health to lower suicide rates, educating people on transgender issues, lowering hate crime towards trans people (many transgender people face a very real risk of being murdered), making health care more accessible etc.
If you want to get productively involved, here's the link to the scrutiny on BHCC website: http://www.brighton-

hove.gov.uk/index.cf

m?request=c1210574
The Scrutiny Panel you refer to has not even published a report to Full Council yet but the world is getting the info before BHCC Councillors. Do I understand that right? Including from you?

Hope you arn't an officer or someone from that Panel!

I thought the Panel looked at lesbian, gay, bi-sexual AND trans issues....but your post seems to suggest it was trans-focussed....is that right?

How many trans people live in the city and how much did this scrutiny panel cost in terms of officer time, councillor time and cold hard cash?

Could the issues you raise not have been raised in a deputation of trans people to a Full Council meeting - the message given in a five minute speech?

Just asking.....
[quote][p][bold]Sam.A.E.L.[/bold] wrote: This article seems to be based on a misunderstanding: The council is not banning titles, nor are they removing them completely - they are merely making it and OPTION to remove your title if you wish. Also, let's get the funding part right: The trans scrutiny wasn't summoned just to get rid of titles in the city, the scrutiny is working across a range of different issues: working with mental health to lower suicide rates, educating people on transgender issues, lowering hate crime towards trans people (many transgender people face a very real risk of being murdered), making health care more accessible etc. If you want to get productively involved, here's the link to the scrutiny on BHCC website: http://www.brighton- hove.gov.uk/index.cf m?request=c1210574[/p][/quote]The Scrutiny Panel you refer to has not even published a report to Full Council yet but the world is getting the info before BHCC Councillors. Do I understand that right? Including from you? Hope you arn't an officer or someone from that Panel! I thought the Panel looked at lesbian, gay, bi-sexual AND trans issues....but your post seems to suggest it was trans-focussed....is that right? How many trans people live in the city and how much did this scrutiny panel cost in terms of officer time, councillor time and cold hard cash? Could the issues you raise not have been raised in a deputation of trans people to a Full Council meeting - the message given in a five minute speech? Just asking..... Valerie Paynter
  • Score: 0

10:20am Sun 28 Oct 12

Ihopenoonehasthisusername says...

juleshove wrote:
I have met thousands of people in my lifetime and never yet met someone who doesn't know their gender.

For the tiny percentage of people who don't know their gender, i presume there is help available to them from a mental health professional.

Why are the Greens wasting time and OUR money with this nonsense.

Vote for Labour, Liberal democrats or Tories, at least they have some understanding of what a councillor is meant to do even if you don't agree with all of it.

The Greens are just one big embarrasement - even for my 11 year old !
Lets just hope your 11 year old doesn't have problem with gender identity. It's okay though, you can send it to the shrink if it does eh.
[quote][p][bold]juleshove[/bold] wrote: I have met thousands of people in my lifetime and never yet met someone who doesn't know their gender. For the tiny percentage of people who don't know their gender, i presume there is help available to them from a mental health professional. Why are the Greens wasting time and OUR money with this nonsense. Vote for Labour, Liberal democrats or Tories, at least they have some understanding of what a councillor is meant to do even if you don't agree with all of it. The Greens are just one big embarrasement - even for my 11 year old ![/p][/quote]Lets just hope your 11 year old doesn't have problem with gender identity. It's okay though, you can send it to the shrink if it does eh. Ihopenoonehasthisusername
  • Score: 0

10:22am Sun 28 Oct 12

Valerie Paynter says...

Sam.A.E.L. wrote:
This article seems to be based on a misunderstanding: The council is not banning titles, nor are they removing them completely - they are merely making it and OPTION to remove your title if you wish.

Also, let's get the funding part right: The trans scrutiny wasn't summoned just to get rid of titles in the city, the scrutiny is working across a range of different issues: working with mental health to lower suicide rates, educating people on transgender issues, lowering hate crime towards trans people (many transgender people face a very real risk of being murdered), making health care more accessible etc.
If you want to get productively involved, here's the link to the scrutiny on BHCC website: http://www.brighton-

hove.gov.uk/index.cf

m?request=c1210574
Thanks for the link. I looked.

The Trans scrutiny is not listed as a finished one...so why is all this in the public domain? Who leaked it? Cllr MacCafferty? Who?

I note that raising a scrutiny panel requires the following to be true:
"the topic being investigated should also be one which affects the city as a whole rather than a particular individual or a small area of the city".

In what ways did the Trans Scrutiny qualify? Are there more than, say, 20 trans people in the city? How is the city as a whole affected?
[quote][p][bold]Sam.A.E.L.[/bold] wrote: This article seems to be based on a misunderstanding: The council is not banning titles, nor are they removing them completely - they are merely making it and OPTION to remove your title if you wish. Also, let's get the funding part right: The trans scrutiny wasn't summoned just to get rid of titles in the city, the scrutiny is working across a range of different issues: working with mental health to lower suicide rates, educating people on transgender issues, lowering hate crime towards trans people (many transgender people face a very real risk of being murdered), making health care more accessible etc. If you want to get productively involved, here's the link to the scrutiny on BHCC website: http://www.brighton- hove.gov.uk/index.cf m?request=c1210574[/p][/quote]Thanks for the link. I looked. The Trans scrutiny is not listed as a finished one...so why is all this in the public domain? Who leaked it? Cllr MacCafferty? Who? I note that raising a scrutiny panel requires the following to be true: "the topic being investigated should also be one which affects the city as a whole rather than a particular individual or a small area of the city". In what ways did the Trans Scrutiny qualify? Are there more than, say, 20 trans people in the city? How is the city as a whole affected? Valerie Paynter
  • Score: 0

10:41am Sun 28 Oct 12

Number Six says...

Ced wrote:
DB Brighton wrote:
Great!
If I don't want to be presumptuous in using someone's first name, how do I pronounce "Mx"?
"Muks" perhaps
Too many of the good people of Brighton voted Green and got these crackpot, marxist social engineers in power who should be sectioned under the mental health act. Oh well live and learn.
You can use "Your Majesty". That's gender neutral.

Hmm. Perhaps I'll adopt that for my dealings with anyone who doesn't wan't to call me Mister
[quote][p][bold]Ced[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]DB Brighton[/bold] wrote: Great! If I don't want to be presumptuous in using someone's first name, how do I pronounce "Mx"?[/p][/quote]"Muks" perhaps Too many of the good people of Brighton voted Green and got these crackpot, marxist social engineers in power who should be sectioned under the mental health act. Oh well live and learn.[/p][/quote]You can use "Your Majesty". That's gender neutral. Hmm. Perhaps I'll adopt that for my dealings with anyone who doesn't wan't to call me Mister Number Six
  • Score: 0

10:44am Sun 28 Oct 12

Number Six says...

How did I do that? That was supposed to be a reply to deedles.

In reply to Ced, can we expect the next 007 flick to contain the classic line "Goodbye, Muks Bond"?
How did I do that? That was supposed to be a reply to deedles. In reply to Ced, can we expect the next 007 flick to contain the classic line "Goodbye, Muks Bond"? Number Six
  • Score: 0

10:53am Sun 28 Oct 12

chico234 says...

Valerie Paynter wrote:
chico234 wrote:
Apart from the very reasonableletter from Kaylieghswift,, all the contributions to this debate you have chosen to put on your website are opposed to the Mr./Mrs. suggestion.

With such a number of letters this can only be a reflection of editorial policy.
While you are happy to print a recomendation that 'the greens should swing from lamp posts', you have not the grace to produce a balanced selection of letters.

If your response to this is that this represents the postbag you received, it would suggest that your contributors are a uniformly and alarmingly narrow-minded group of people, which I doubt is the case.
THESE COMMENTS ARE NOT EDITED LETTERS !

The Argus has not removed any pro comments - would not, unless libellous or obscene, as a rule.

You are looking at public reaction as it is. If you can cough up evidence from a person YOU KNOW, who is identifiable in some way who has put a pro post here and had it removed, do tell us with another post of your own - which you will have noticed has not been removed.

Or have you posted this comment in some sad attempt at getting away with black propaganda you think some fool will believe?
In my letter, in my unfamiliarity with internet form, I assumed that there was some mechanism on line for checking letters before publishing them. While you say this is not the case you do admit that libellous or obscene content is subject to removal.Would this then be after its appearance on line?

The heat generated by what Sam A.E.L. describes as no more than an added option to remove your title if you wish.suggests that some contributors are more emotionally involved in their opposition to LGBT or Green activity than it warrents.
[quote][p][bold]Valerie Paynter[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]chico234[/bold] wrote: Apart from the very reasonableletter from Kaylieghswift,, all the contributions to this debate you have chosen to put on your website are opposed to the Mr./Mrs. suggestion. With such a number of letters this can only be a reflection of editorial policy. While you are happy to print a recomendation that 'the greens should swing from lamp posts', you have not the grace to produce a balanced selection of letters. If your response to this is that this represents the postbag you received, it would suggest that your contributors are a uniformly and alarmingly narrow-minded group of people, which I doubt is the case.[/p][/quote]THESE COMMENTS ARE NOT EDITED LETTERS ! The Argus has not removed any pro comments - would not, unless libellous or obscene, as a rule. You are looking at public reaction as it is. If you can cough up evidence from a person YOU KNOW, who is identifiable in some way who has put a pro post here and had it removed, do tell us with another post of your own - which you will have noticed has not been removed. Or have you posted this comment in some sad attempt at getting away with black propaganda you think some fool will believe?[/p][/quote]In my letter, in my unfamiliarity with internet form, I assumed that there was some mechanism on line for checking letters before publishing them. While you say this is not the case you do admit that libellous or obscene content is subject to removal.Would this then be after its appearance on line? The heat generated by what Sam A.E.L. describes as no more than an added option to remove your title if you wish.suggests that some contributors are more emotionally involved in their opposition to LGBT or Green activity than it warrents. chico234
  • Score: 0

2:19pm Sun 28 Oct 12

tengri says...

"Citizens of Brighton and Hove may no longer be called Mr or Mrs under new plans."

Total rubbish... Mr Gardner - are you building a CV for a Daily Mail job?
"Citizens of Brighton and Hove may no longer be called Mr or Mrs under new plans." Total rubbish... Mr Gardner - are you building a CV for a Daily Mail job? tengri
  • Score: 0

5:11pm Sun 28 Oct 12

chico234 says...

Well said, tengri, there are individuals lying in wait, hiding in the bushes, waiting to leap out when they smell an opportunity to splutter and wave their bony arms about, protesting that Marxist bodysnatchers are loose in the streets.
Well said, tengri, there are individuals lying in wait, hiding in the bushes, waiting to leap out when they smell an opportunity to splutter and wave their bony arms about, protesting that Marxist bodysnatchers are loose in the streets. chico234
  • Score: 0

5:16pm Sun 28 Oct 12

Dealing with idiots says...

Valerie Paynter wrote:
Sam.A.E.L. wrote: This article seems to be based on a misunderstanding: The council is not banning titles, nor are they removing them completely - they are merely making it and OPTION to remove your title if you wish. Also, let's get the funding part right: The trans scrutiny wasn't summoned just to get rid of titles in the city, the scrutiny is working across a range of different issues: working with mental health to lower suicide rates, educating people on transgender issues, lowering hate crime towards trans people (many transgender people face a very real risk of being murdered), making health care more accessible etc. If you want to get productively involved, here's the link to the scrutiny on BHCC website: http://www.brighton- hove.gov.uk/index.cf m?request=c1210574
The Scrutiny Panel you refer to has not even published a report to Full Council yet but the world is getting the info before BHCC Councillors. Do I understand that right? Including from you? Hope you arn't an officer or someone from that Panel! I thought the Panel looked at lesbian, gay, bi-sexual AND trans issues....but your post seems to suggest it was trans-focussed....is that right? How many trans people live in the city and how much did this scrutiny panel cost in terms of officer time, councillor time and cold hard cash? Could the issues you raise not have been raised in a deputation of trans people to a Full Council meeting - the message given in a five minute speech? Just asking.....
Do an Freedom of information request to find out costs, although aunty Wendy at the council is a bit protective and slow to suppy embarassing stuff about councillors especially Green ones.
[quote][p][bold]Valerie Paynter[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Sam.A.E.L.[/bold] wrote: This article seems to be based on a misunderstanding: The council is not banning titles, nor are they removing them completely - they are merely making it and OPTION to remove your title if you wish. Also, let's get the funding part right: The trans scrutiny wasn't summoned just to get rid of titles in the city, the scrutiny is working across a range of different issues: working with mental health to lower suicide rates, educating people on transgender issues, lowering hate crime towards trans people (many transgender people face a very real risk of being murdered), making health care more accessible etc. If you want to get productively involved, here's the link to the scrutiny on BHCC website: http://www.brighton- hove.gov.uk/index.cf m?request=c1210574[/p][/quote]The Scrutiny Panel you refer to has not even published a report to Full Council yet but the world is getting the info before BHCC Councillors. Do I understand that right? Including from you? Hope you arn't an officer or someone from that Panel! I thought the Panel looked at lesbian, gay, bi-sexual AND trans issues....but your post seems to suggest it was trans-focussed....is that right? How many trans people live in the city and how much did this scrutiny panel cost in terms of officer time, councillor time and cold hard cash? Could the issues you raise not have been raised in a deputation of trans people to a Full Council meeting - the message given in a five minute speech? Just asking.....[/p][/quote]Do an Freedom of information request to find out costs, although aunty Wendy at the council is a bit protective and slow to suppy embarassing stuff about councillors especially Green ones. Dealing with idiots
  • Score: 0

7:31pm Sun 28 Oct 12

saveHOVE says...

chico234 wrote:
Valerie Paynter wrote:
chico234 wrote:
Apart from the very reasonableletter from Kaylieghswift,, all the contributions to this debate you have chosen to put on your website are opposed to the Mr./Mrs. suggestion.


With such a number of letters this can only be a reflection of editorial policy.
While you are happy to print a recomendation that 'the greens should swing from lamp posts', you have not the grace to produce a balanced selection of letters.

If your response to this is that this represents the postbag you received, it would suggest that your contributors are a uniformly and alarmingly narrow-minded group of people, which I doubt is the case.
THESE COMMENTS ARE NOT EDITED LETTERS !

The Argus has not removed any pro comments - would not, unless libellous or obscene, as a rule.

You are looking at public reaction as it is. If you can cough up evidence from a person YOU KNOW, who is identifiable in some way who has put a pro post here and had it removed, do tell us with another post of your own - which you will have noticed has not been removed.

Or have you posted this comment in some sad attempt at getting away with black propaganda you think some fool will believe?
In my letter, in my unfamiliarity with internet form, I assumed that there was some mechanism on line for checking letters before publishing them. While you say this is not the case you do admit that libellous or obscene content is subject to removal.Would this then be after its appearance on line?

The heat generated by what Sam A.E.L. describes as no more than an added option to remove your title if you wish.suggests that some contributors are more emotionally involved in their opposition to LGBT or Green activity than it warrents.
Please. This website clearly has a section on its menu for letters (submitted and sometimes edited for length). Then they go online and/or in print.

The comments trail behind articles is automatically uploaded by users unless barred for previous bad behaviour.

Rarely, a comment will be removed if someone is on duty or alerted to it.

All comments are removed if a news story becomes a legally restricted news story (e.g. arrests, charges involving a future court case, say).

You are looking at a comments trail and maybe you should rustle up a few of your mates to put posts on that you would prefer to see if you think there is a case of bias.

Please see the Argus poll for a hint about majority public feeling - reflected in the comments here.
[quote][p][bold]chico234[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Valerie Paynter[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]chico234[/bold] wrote: Apart from the very reasonableletter from Kaylieghswift,, all the contributions to this debate you have chosen to put on your website are opposed to the Mr./Mrs. suggestion. With such a number of letters this can only be a reflection of editorial policy. While you are happy to print a recomendation that 'the greens should swing from lamp posts', you have not the grace to produce a balanced selection of letters. If your response to this is that this represents the postbag you received, it would suggest that your contributors are a uniformly and alarmingly narrow-minded group of people, which I doubt is the case.[/p][/quote]THESE COMMENTS ARE NOT EDITED LETTERS ! The Argus has not removed any pro comments - would not, unless libellous or obscene, as a rule. You are looking at public reaction as it is. If you can cough up evidence from a person YOU KNOW, who is identifiable in some way who has put a pro post here and had it removed, do tell us with another post of your own - which you will have noticed has not been removed. Or have you posted this comment in some sad attempt at getting away with black propaganda you think some fool will believe?[/p][/quote]In my letter, in my unfamiliarity with internet form, I assumed that there was some mechanism on line for checking letters before publishing them. While you say this is not the case you do admit that libellous or obscene content is subject to removal.Would this then be after its appearance on line? The heat generated by what Sam A.E.L. describes as no more than an added option to remove your title if you wish.suggests that some contributors are more emotionally involved in their opposition to LGBT or Green activity than it warrents.[/p][/quote]Please. This website clearly has a section on its menu for letters (submitted and sometimes edited for length). Then they go online and/or in print. The comments trail behind articles is automatically uploaded by users unless barred for previous bad behaviour. Rarely, a comment will be removed if someone is on duty or alerted to it. All comments are removed if a news story becomes a legally restricted news story (e.g. arrests, charges involving a future court case, say). You are looking at a comments trail and maybe you should rustle up a few of your mates to put posts on that you would prefer to see if you think there is a case of bias. Please see the Argus poll for a hint about majority public feeling - reflected in the comments here. saveHOVE
  • Score: 0

7:33pm Sun 28 Oct 12

saveHOVE says...

chico234 wrote:
Valerie Paynter wrote:
chico234 wrote:
Apart from the very reasonableletter from Kaylieghswift,, all the contributions to this debate you have chosen to put on your website are opposed to the Mr./Mrs. suggestion.

With such a number of letters this can only be a reflection of editorial policy.
While you are happy to print a recomendation that 'the greens should swing from lamp posts', you have not the grace to produce a balanced selection of letters.

If your response to this is that this represents the postbag you received, it would suggest that your contributors are a uniformly and alarmingly narrow-minded group of people, which I doubt is the case.
THESE COMMENTS ARE NOT EDITED LETTERS !

The Argus has not removed any pro comments - would not, unless libellous or obscene, as a rule.

You are looking at public reaction as it is. If you can cough up evidence from a person YOU KNOW, who is identifiable in some way who has put a pro post here and had it removed, do tell us with another post of your own - which you will have noticed has not been removed.

Or have you posted this comment in some sad attempt at getting away with black propaganda you think some fool will believe?
In my letter, in my unfamiliarity with internet form, I assumed that there was some mechanism on line for checking letters before publishing them. While you say this is not the case you do admit that libellous or obscene content is subject to removal.Would this then be after its appearance on line?

The heat generated by what Sam A.E.L. describes as no more than an added option to remove your title if you wish.suggests that some contributors are more emotionally involved in their opposition to LGBT or Green activity than it warrents.
You have not posted a "letter". You have posted a comment like the rest of us.
[quote][p][bold]chico234[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Valerie Paynter[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]chico234[/bold] wrote: Apart from the very reasonableletter from Kaylieghswift,, all the contributions to this debate you have chosen to put on your website are opposed to the Mr./Mrs. suggestion. With such a number of letters this can only be a reflection of editorial policy. While you are happy to print a recomendation that 'the greens should swing from lamp posts', you have not the grace to produce a balanced selection of letters. If your response to this is that this represents the postbag you received, it would suggest that your contributors are a uniformly and alarmingly narrow-minded group of people, which I doubt is the case.[/p][/quote]THESE COMMENTS ARE NOT EDITED LETTERS ! The Argus has not removed any pro comments - would not, unless libellous or obscene, as a rule. You are looking at public reaction as it is. If you can cough up evidence from a person YOU KNOW, who is identifiable in some way who has put a pro post here and had it removed, do tell us with another post of your own - which you will have noticed has not been removed. Or have you posted this comment in some sad attempt at getting away with black propaganda you think some fool will believe?[/p][/quote]In my letter, in my unfamiliarity with internet form, I assumed that there was some mechanism on line for checking letters before publishing them. While you say this is not the case you do admit that libellous or obscene content is subject to removal.Would this then be after its appearance on line? The heat generated by what Sam A.E.L. describes as no more than an added option to remove your title if you wish.suggests that some contributors are more emotionally involved in their opposition to LGBT or Green activity than it warrents.[/p][/quote]You have not posted a "letter". You have posted a comment like the rest of us. saveHOVE
  • Score: 0

7:33pm Sun 28 Oct 12

saveHOVE says...

chico234 wrote:
Valerie Paynter wrote:
chico234 wrote:
Apart from the very reasonableletter from Kaylieghswift,, all the contributions to this debate you have chosen to put on your website are opposed to the Mr./Mrs. suggestion.

With such a number of letters this can only be a reflection of editorial policy.
While you are happy to print a recomendation that 'the greens should swing from lamp posts', you have not the grace to produce a balanced selection of letters.

If your response to this is that this represents the postbag you received, it would suggest that your contributors are a uniformly and alarmingly narrow-minded group of people, which I doubt is the case.
THESE COMMENTS ARE NOT EDITED LETTERS !

The Argus has not removed any pro comments - would not, unless libellous or obscene, as a rule.

You are looking at public reaction as it is. If you can cough up evidence from a person YOU KNOW, who is identifiable in some way who has put a pro post here and had it removed, do tell us with another post of your own - which you will have noticed has not been removed.

Or have you posted this comment in some sad attempt at getting away with black propaganda you think some fool will believe?
In my letter, in my unfamiliarity with internet form, I assumed that there was some mechanism on line for checking letters before publishing them. While you say this is not the case you do admit that libellous or obscene content is subject to removal.Would this then be after its appearance on line?

The heat generated by what Sam A.E.L. describes as no more than an added option to remove your title if you wish.suggests that some contributors are more emotionally involved in their opposition to LGBT or Green activity than it warrents.
You have not posted a "letter". You have posted a comment like the rest of us.
[quote][p][bold]chico234[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Valerie Paynter[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]chico234[/bold] wrote: Apart from the very reasonableletter from Kaylieghswift,, all the contributions to this debate you have chosen to put on your website are opposed to the Mr./Mrs. suggestion. With such a number of letters this can only be a reflection of editorial policy. While you are happy to print a recomendation that 'the greens should swing from lamp posts', you have not the grace to produce a balanced selection of letters. If your response to this is that this represents the postbag you received, it would suggest that your contributors are a uniformly and alarmingly narrow-minded group of people, which I doubt is the case.[/p][/quote]THESE COMMENTS ARE NOT EDITED LETTERS ! The Argus has not removed any pro comments - would not, unless libellous or obscene, as a rule. You are looking at public reaction as it is. If you can cough up evidence from a person YOU KNOW, who is identifiable in some way who has put a pro post here and had it removed, do tell us with another post of your own - which you will have noticed has not been removed. Or have you posted this comment in some sad attempt at getting away with black propaganda you think some fool will believe?[/p][/quote]In my letter, in my unfamiliarity with internet form, I assumed that there was some mechanism on line for checking letters before publishing them. While you say this is not the case you do admit that libellous or obscene content is subject to removal.Would this then be after its appearance on line? The heat generated by what Sam A.E.L. describes as no more than an added option to remove your title if you wish.suggests that some contributors are more emotionally involved in their opposition to LGBT or Green activity than it warrents.[/p][/quote]You have not posted a "letter". You have posted a comment like the rest of us. saveHOVE
  • Score: 0

9:02pm Sun 28 Oct 12

Sarah Booker says...

chico234 wrote:
Apart from the very reasonableletter from Kaylieghswift,, all the contributions to this debate you have chosen to put on your website are opposed to the Mr./Mrs. suggestion.

With such a number of letters this can only be a reflection of editorial policy.
While you are happy to print a recomendation that 'the greens should swing from lamp posts', you have not the grace to produce a balanced selection of letters.

If your response to this is that this represents the postbag you received, it would suggest that your contributors are a uniformly and alarmingly narrow-minded group of people, which I doubt is the case.
Hi Chico

I'm one of The Argus web editors. All comments posted on the website appear as the readers writes them. We do not premoderate comments on the site, or actively moderate.

Comments are only removed if they break the site terms and conditions and/or the law. If you are abusive, write libellous or material in contempt of court, then your comment is removed after complaints are received.

Readers letters are published separately on this website in the dedicated letters section. As others have stated the comments here reflect the public reaction. Some comments have been removed for containing obscene/hate language.

I trust that explains the situation.
[quote][p][bold]chico234[/bold] wrote: Apart from the very reasonableletter from Kaylieghswift,, all the contributions to this debate you have chosen to put on your website are opposed to the Mr./Mrs. suggestion. With such a number of letters this can only be a reflection of editorial policy. While you are happy to print a recomendation that 'the greens should swing from lamp posts', you have not the grace to produce a balanced selection of letters. If your response to this is that this represents the postbag you received, it would suggest that your contributors are a uniformly and alarmingly narrow-minded group of people, which I doubt is the case.[/p][/quote]Hi Chico I'm one of The Argus web editors. All comments posted on the website appear as the readers writes them. We do not premoderate comments on the site, or actively moderate. Comments are only removed if they break the site terms and conditions and/or the law. If you are abusive, write libellous or material in contempt of court, then your comment is removed after complaints are received. Readers letters are published separately on this website in the dedicated letters section. As others have stated the comments here reflect the public reaction. Some comments have been removed for containing obscene/hate language. I trust that explains the situation. Sarah Booker
  • Score: 0

10:21pm Sun 28 Oct 12

The Baron Pepperpot says...

ruberducker wrote:
why cant the "normal" people of brighton be left alone,as brightonions we have allways been exepted community to all walks of life,the pc loooony melons are now taking the preverble urine.
if you want to change your self from a martin into a mary"thats fine your choice"but also "your problem"why do hetrosexual's have to bow down to being all pc so you dont get upset.all you here now is i cant get on in life becuase im black,disabled,gay etc what about the "normal people".
The Argus comments column is not taken seriously by folk in Brighton, but there should be annual awards.

I'd like to give this 'post of the year'.

'What about the normal people ?' ...

You just couldn't make it up. However, fair play if it is a wind up.
[quote][p][bold]ruberducker[/bold] wrote: why cant the "normal" people of brighton be left alone,as brightonions we have allways been exepted community to all walks of life,the pc loooony melons are now taking the preverble urine. if you want to change your self from a martin into a mary"thats fine your choice"but also "your problem"why do hetrosexual's have to bow down to being all pc so you dont get upset.all you here now is i cant get on in life becuase im black,disabled,gay etc what about the "normal people".[/p][/quote]The Argus comments column is not taken seriously by folk in Brighton, but there should be annual awards. I'd like to give this 'post of the year'. 'What about the normal people ?' ... You just couldn't make it up. However, fair play if it is a wind up. The Baron Pepperpot
  • Score: 0

10:23pm Sun 28 Oct 12

The Baron Pepperpot says...

Folk should remember that the committe involved in this process is cross party.
Folk should remember that the committe involved in this process is cross party. The Baron Pepperpot
  • Score: 0

10:43pm Sun 28 Oct 12

Brighton Visitor says...

It woulda been a better word.
It woulda been a better word. Brighton Visitor
  • Score: 0

9:00am Mon 29 Oct 12

chico234 says...

I was moved to write my original 'comment' when I saw the massive imbalance in contributions. I might add that some of the contributors sound unbalanced too.

I have a better understanding of how this forum works but I am still shocked at the lack of generosity shown by such a large proportion of contributors.

Brighton has a reputation for tolerance of eccentricity and difference. If the contributors here are representative of the general public in this town we must assume that this reputation is not founded in the reality.

Fortunately, I know Brighton people to be generally warm and generous,,unlike the overwhelming weight of numbers of contributors to this thread.
I was moved to write my original 'comment' when I saw the massive imbalance in contributions. I might add that some of the contributors sound unbalanced too. I have a better understanding of how this forum works but I am still shocked at the lack of generosity shown by such a large proportion of contributors. Brighton has a reputation for tolerance of eccentricity and difference. If the contributors here are representative of the general public in this town we must assume that this reputation is not founded in the reality. Fortunately, I know Brighton people to be generally warm and generous,,unlike the overwhelming weight of numbers of contributors to this thread. chico234
  • Score: 0

10:07am Mon 29 Oct 12

Cash Cow says...

chico234 wrote:
I was moved to write my original 'comment' when I saw the massive imbalance in contributions. I might add that some of the contributors sound unbalanced too.

I have a better understanding of how this forum works but I am still shocked at the lack of generosity shown by such a large proportion of contributors.

Brighton has a reputation for tolerance of eccentricity and difference. If the contributors here are representative of the general public in this town we must assume that this reputation is not founded in the reality.

Fortunately, I know Brighton people to be generally warm and generous,,unlike the overwhelming weight of numbers of contributors to this thread.
When you talk of "imbalance" and "unbalanced" when refering to the majority of contributors, what is it exactly you expect people to say? Isn't it clearly obvious and predictable how thje majority of people will respond to such a ridiculous proposal? You accuse almost everyone of not being "warm and generous" when in fact you are making a "cold and selfish" statement yourself in saying so.

When the word "tolerance" is used, it means putting up with things we don't always agree with because we haven't really any choice, otherwise we would be saying "acceptance" a word hardly ever used in Brighton. So it seems the tolerant will not accept such a ridiculous idea and you don't like it, and clearly outnumbered on this one you use this thread to suggest everyone is a moron or a demon because they don't agree with you. Isn't it funny how the dirtiest people always want to shout from the biggest soap box!
[quote][p][bold]chico234[/bold] wrote: I was moved to write my original 'comment' when I saw the massive imbalance in contributions. I might add that some of the contributors sound unbalanced too. I have a better understanding of how this forum works but I am still shocked at the lack of generosity shown by such a large proportion of contributors. Brighton has a reputation for tolerance of eccentricity and difference. If the contributors here are representative of the general public in this town we must assume that this reputation is not founded in the reality. Fortunately, I know Brighton people to be generally warm and generous,,unlike the overwhelming weight of numbers of contributors to this thread.[/p][/quote]When you talk of "imbalance" and "unbalanced" when refering to the majority of contributors, what is it exactly you expect people to say? Isn't it clearly obvious and predictable how thje majority of people will respond to such a ridiculous proposal? You accuse almost everyone of not being "warm and generous" when in fact you are making a "cold and selfish" statement yourself in saying so. When the word "tolerance" is used, it means putting up with things we don't always agree with because we haven't really any choice, otherwise we would be saying "acceptance" a word hardly ever used in Brighton. So it seems the tolerant will not accept such a ridiculous idea and you don't like it, and clearly outnumbered on this one you use this thread to suggest everyone is a moron or a demon because they don't agree with you. Isn't it funny how the dirtiest people always want to shout from the biggest soap box! Cash Cow
  • Score: 0

11:04am Mon 29 Oct 12

Joshiman says...

Its not April 1st yet.
How ludicrous.If approved i will send all letters not at this address,return to sender.
Its not April 1st yet. How ludicrous.If approved i will send all letters not at this address,return to sender. Joshiman
  • Score: 0

11:16am Mon 29 Oct 12

portslader says...

Malibu1963 wrote:
When I was growing up we had three people in the house with the same initial 'A'. If no titles were used who would open mail addressed to 'A'? Mrs A, Mr A or Miss A? Confidentiality would no longer exist, it is an integral part of who we are and it is all part of having good manners, something seriously lacking in today's society!!
Malibu1963: I totally agree with you and the answer to your question is this! Common sense and logic...thats is what we are lacking in today's society. And these are the the very people we have running this country! God help us all!
[quote][p][bold]Malibu1963[/bold] wrote: When I was growing up we had three people in the house with the same initial 'A'. If no titles were used who would open mail addressed to 'A'? Mrs A, Mr A or Miss A? Confidentiality would no longer exist, it is an integral part of who we are and it is all part of having good manners, something seriously lacking in today's society!![/p][/quote]Malibu1963: I totally agree with you and the answer to your question is this! Common sense and logic...thats is what we are lacking in today's society. And these are the the very people we have running this country! God help us all! portslader
  • Score: 0

2:09pm Mon 29 Oct 12

saveHOVE says...

The Baron Pepperpot wrote:
Folk should remember that the committe involved in this process is cross party.
Yup; it is. Good reminder. And I would further remind that the Conservative Denise Cobb and Labour's Warren Morgan have not insulted their colleagues in all parties by mouthing off about one particular facet of the considerations and issues within the panel's reasearch process.

The findings are not finalised or written up! No report yet exists for taking to council members. Yet we have Cllr MacCafferty holding forth and heralding this potential council policy to come which he links to it!

A standards issue?
[quote][p][bold]The Baron Pepperpot[/bold] wrote: Folk should remember that the committe involved in this process is cross party.[/p][/quote]Yup; it is. Good reminder. And I would further remind that the Conservative Denise Cobb and Labour's Warren Morgan have not insulted their colleagues in all parties by mouthing off about one particular facet of the considerations and issues within the panel's reasearch process. The findings are not finalised or written up! No report yet exists for taking to council members. Yet we have Cllr MacCafferty holding forth and heralding this potential council policy to come which he links to it! A standards issue? saveHOVE
  • Score: 0

2:52pm Mon 29 Oct 12

AmboGuy says...

chico234 wrote:
I was moved to write my original 'comment' when I saw the massive imbalance in contributions. I might add that some of the contributors sound unbalanced too.

I have a better understanding of how this forum works but I am still shocked at the lack of generosity shown by such a large proportion of contributors.

Brighton has a reputation for tolerance of eccentricity and difference. If the contributors here are representative of the general public in this town we must assume that this reputation is not founded in the reality.

Fortunately, I know Brighton people to be generally warm and generous,,unlike the overwhelming weight of numbers of contributors to this thread.
It sounds to me like you only welcome freedom of speech if its what you agree with.

If you don't like it then maybe you shouldn't read it.
[quote][p][bold]chico234[/bold] wrote: I was moved to write my original 'comment' when I saw the massive imbalance in contributions. I might add that some of the contributors sound unbalanced too. I have a better understanding of how this forum works but I am still shocked at the lack of generosity shown by such a large proportion of contributors. Brighton has a reputation for tolerance of eccentricity and difference. If the contributors here are representative of the general public in this town we must assume that this reputation is not founded in the reality. Fortunately, I know Brighton people to be generally warm and generous,,unlike the overwhelming weight of numbers of contributors to this thread.[/p][/quote]It sounds to me like you only welcome freedom of speech if its what you agree with. If you don't like it then maybe you shouldn't read it. AmboGuy
  • Score: 0

4:45pm Mon 29 Oct 12

chico234 says...

Using the word 'acceptance' instead of 'tolerance' is a reasonable suggestion.
Using the word 'acceptance' instead of 'tolerance' is a reasonable suggestion. chico234
  • Score: 1

6:08pm Mon 29 Oct 12

Argus says...

Is that his real name, or has he made it up, if so, he must have a very childish mind, also must be a friend of a Mr Ben Doon.
And I also will be sending back any post improperly addressed, My title is either Mr, or if I wish to use it, Reverend.
Is that his real name, or has he made it up, if so, he must have a very childish mind, also must be a friend of a Mr Ben Doon. And I also will be sending back any post improperly addressed, My title is either Mr, or if I wish to use it, Reverend. Argus
  • Score: 0

6:55pm Mon 29 Oct 12

normal working person says...

If you don't want to be called Mrs, then don't get married.

I have a number of gay friends, male and female, all of whom would be very offended if they were not called Mr, Miss or Mrs just because of their sexuality.

I despair at the sheer loonacy of some people.
If you don't want to be called Mrs, then don't get married. I have a number of gay friends, male and female, all of whom would be very offended if they were not called Mr, Miss or Mrs just because of their sexuality. I despair at the sheer loonacy of some people. normal working person
  • Score: 0

10:59pm Mon 29 Oct 12

nocando says...

chico234 wrote:
Using the word 'acceptance' instead of 'tolerance' is a reasonable suggestion.
letting others choose whichever phrases etc they wish to employ without being dictated to by people with agendas is even more reasonable. And the majority viewpoint in this thread.
[quote][p][bold]chico234[/bold] wrote: Using the word 'acceptance' instead of 'tolerance' is a reasonable suggestion.[/p][/quote]letting others choose whichever phrases etc they wish to employ without being dictated to by people with agendas is even more reasonable. And the majority viewpoint in this thread. nocando
  • Score: 0

8:52pm Tue 30 Oct 12

danielleconner says...

As both someone who was at the public meeting and took part in one of the small groups who suggested that perhaps was to limited a choose on forms for the diverse populations that Brighton have and also a transgendered person.

I am frankly shocked and amazed and completely saddened, by several points in the current public coverage of this issue, especially when I think my parents and friends will read these articles and there unbalanced opinions.
However I have to say this has not been helped by Steph Scott quote
“LGBT activist Steph Scott said: 'Being called Mr or Mrs forces me to choose between genders.
'It's assuming people live in a binary world where you're either one thing or another and it pigeonholes people.
'I think it's a good idea to expand across the city because it's about getting people to be aware that gender isn't just male or female.'”

I think Steph Scott who is influential in the community should think very carefully before giving sound bites and quotes to reporters about the impact of her words, on the community but enough said about that point.
The point I wish to make is I WANT to be called Ms , I have worked very hard to be called Ms and it is not something I would like to see taken away from me by the application of this policy. I do believe and this was the original point in the meeting that people should be able to select other or to opt out of specifying there gender if it makes them uncomfortable , but personally I would be saddened should my right to be a Ms. be taken away.
As both someone who was at the public meeting and took part in one of the small groups who suggested that perhaps [MR / Mrs etc] was to limited a choose on forms for the diverse populations that Brighton have and also a transgendered person. I am frankly shocked and amazed and completely saddened, by several points in the current public coverage of this issue, especially when I think my parents and friends will read these articles and there unbalanced opinions. However I have to say this has not been helped by Steph Scott quote “LGBT activist Steph Scott said: 'Being called Mr or Mrs forces me to choose between genders. 'It's assuming people live in a binary world where you're either one thing or another and it pigeonholes people. 'I think it's a good idea to expand across the city because it's about getting people to be aware that gender isn't just male or female.'” I think Steph Scott who is influential in the community should think very carefully before giving sound bites and quotes to reporters about the impact of her words, on the community but enough said about that point. The point I wish to make is I WANT to be called Ms , I have worked very hard to be called Ms and it is not something I would like to see taken away from me by the application of this policy. I do believe and this was the original point in the meeting that people should be able to select other or to opt out of specifying there gender if it makes them uncomfortable , but personally I would be saddened should my right to be a Ms. be taken away. danielleconner
  • Score: 0

8:53am Wed 31 Oct 12

saveHOVE says...

danielleconner wrote:
As both someone who was at the public meeting and took part in one of the small groups who suggested that perhaps was to limited a choose on forms for the diverse populations that Brighton have and also a transgendered person.

I am frankly shocked and amazed and completely saddened, by several points in the current public coverage of this issue, especially when I think my parents and friends will read these articles and there unbalanced opinions.
However I have to say this has not been helped by Steph Scott quote
“LGBT activist Steph Scott said: 'Being called Mr or Mrs forces me to choose between genders.
'It's assuming people live in a binary world where you're either one thing or another and it pigeonholes people.
'I think it's a good idea to expand across the city because it's about getting people to be aware that gender isn't just male or female.'”

I think Steph Scott who is influential in the community should think very carefully before giving sound bites and quotes to reporters about the impact of her words, on the community but enough said about that point.
The point I wish to make is I WANT to be called Ms , I have worked very hard to be called Ms and it is not something I would like to see taken away from me by the application of this policy. I do believe and this was the original point in the meeting that people should be able to select other or to opt out of specifying there gender if it makes them uncomfortable , but personally I would be saddened should my right to be a Ms. be taken away.
If Steph Scott has been allowed to become influential in the community you write about, perhaps, in light of your disappointment, that influence will reduce. Influence comes from trustworthiness and respect. We all need to be very cautious about who we give trust and respect to.

Especially those who stand in local and other elections.

By their deeds shall ye know them....as they say....
[quote][p][bold]danielleconner[/bold] wrote: As both someone who was at the public meeting and took part in one of the small groups who suggested that perhaps [MR / Mrs etc] was to limited a choose on forms for the diverse populations that Brighton have and also a transgendered person. I am frankly shocked and amazed and completely saddened, by several points in the current public coverage of this issue, especially when I think my parents and friends will read these articles and there unbalanced opinions. However I have to say this has not been helped by Steph Scott quote “LGBT activist Steph Scott said: 'Being called Mr or Mrs forces me to choose between genders. 'It's assuming people live in a binary world where you're either one thing or another and it pigeonholes people. 'I think it's a good idea to expand across the city because it's about getting people to be aware that gender isn't just male or female.'” I think Steph Scott who is influential in the community should think very carefully before giving sound bites and quotes to reporters about the impact of her words, on the community but enough said about that point. The point I wish to make is I WANT to be called Ms , I have worked very hard to be called Ms and it is not something I would like to see taken away from me by the application of this policy. I do believe and this was the original point in the meeting that people should be able to select other or to opt out of specifying there gender if it makes them uncomfortable , but personally I would be saddened should my right to be a Ms. be taken away.[/p][/quote]If Steph Scott has been allowed to become influential in the community you write about, perhaps, in light of your disappointment, that influence will reduce. Influence comes from trustworthiness and respect. We all need to be very cautious about who we give trust and respect to. Especially those who stand in local and other elections. By their deeds shall ye know them....as they say.... saveHOVE
  • Score: 0

5:20pm Wed 31 Oct 12

brightonbreezy says...

kayleighswift
Would you think it equally unique if a French Jean were married to an English Jean?
You seem intelligent. Please do not write nonsensical comments.
kayleighswift Would you think it equally unique if a French Jean were married to an English Jean? You seem intelligent. Please do not write nonsensical comments. brightonbreezy
  • Score: 0

1:58pm Fri 2 Nov 12

redpyjamas says...

Please note - this article is extremely misleading - the council is not planning to scrap the use of mr and mrs on forms, but is considering adding in an extra option for people who feel neither fit them. It is considering more choices, not less. And it hasnt been decided, it's just being considered.
Scrapping them entirely would be ridiculous and unfair, but no one has suggested that.
Please note - this article is extremely misleading - the council is not planning to scrap the use of mr and mrs on forms, but is considering adding in an extra option for people who feel neither fit them. It is considering more choices, not less. And it hasnt been decided, it's just being considered. Scrapping them entirely would be ridiculous and unfair, but no one has suggested that. redpyjamas
  • Score: 0

7:35pm Sat 3 Nov 12

Neutral18 says...

The comments I have read on this article are deeply disturbing. I actually come under the trans* umbrella and dislike having to chose a title such as 'Miss' when registering or filling in forms. Also when I get letters through. Why is it such a big deal for forms to exclude this on them, or make it not necessary for you to answer?
To still have the options there for people that want them, but not forcing those that find it very uncomfortable to chose.
The comments I have read on this article are deeply disturbing. I actually come under the trans* umbrella and dislike having to chose a title such as 'Miss' when registering or filling in forms. Also when I get letters through. Why is it such a big deal for forms to exclude this on them, or make it not necessary for you to answer? To still have the options there for people that want them, but not forcing those that find it very uncomfortable to chose. Neutral18
  • Score: 0

8:46am Mon 5 Nov 12

god does not exist says...

They should build a 10 meter high wall around Brighton and send all these deluded Liberals there to live among them selves. Who do they think they are and what gives them the right to spread their madness to normal people without consent.
They should build a 10 meter high wall around Brighton and send all these deluded Liberals there to live among them selves. Who do they think they are and what gives them the right to spread their madness to normal people without consent. god does not exist
  • Score: 0

8:48am Mon 5 Nov 12

god does not exist says...

Fact..... Gender is about being Male or Female 100% of scientists agree so live with it
Fact..... Gender is about being Male or Female 100% of scientists agree so live with it god does not exist
  • Score: 0

7:45am Tue 6 Nov 12

chico234 says...

redpyjamas wrote:
Please note - this article is extremely misleading - the council is not planning to scrap the use of mr and mrs on forms, but is considering adding in an extra option for people who feel neither fit them. It is considering more choices, not less. And it hasnt been decided, it's just being considered.
Scrapping them entirely would be ridiculous and unfair, but no one has suggested that.
What redpyjamas has written above;
'the council is not planning to scrap the use of mr and mrs on forms, but is considering adding in an extra option for people who feel neither fit them.'. should put an end to some of the misguided comments that have featured on this thread but probably won't.
When public execution was a regular feature in this country there was much competition for tickets. I'm sure, this would be the case today and if those people were shown that in fact capital punishment doesn't work they would say that's not the point - they would say that they want to be entertained and that that was their prime concern.
I'm sure unprogressive views will continue to outnumber the more thoughtful comments on this thread and will reflect the egocentric priorities of the majority of people.
[quote][p][bold]redpyjamas[/bold] wrote: Please note - this article is extremely misleading - the council is not planning to scrap the use of mr and mrs on forms, but is considering adding in an extra option for people who feel neither fit them. It is considering more choices, not less. And it hasnt been decided, it's just being considered. Scrapping them entirely would be ridiculous and unfair, but no one has suggested that.[/p][/quote]What redpyjamas has written above; 'the council is not planning to scrap the use of mr and mrs on forms, but is considering adding in an extra option for people who feel neither fit them.'. should put an end to some of the misguided comments that have featured on this thread but probably won't. When public execution was a regular feature in this country there was much competition for tickets. I'm sure, this would be the case today and if those people were shown that in fact capital punishment doesn't work they would say that's not the point - they would say that they want to be entertained and that that was their prime concern. I'm sure unprogressive views will continue to outnumber the more thoughtful comments on this thread and will reflect the egocentric priorities of the majority of people. chico234
  • Score: 0

7:50am Wed 7 Nov 12

chico234 says...

Maybe my last paragraph (above) was a bit pessimistic. Maybe people are better than that.I hope so.
Now why should the male title, Mr., not denote marital status when the female, Miss or Mrs.,does?
I suspect that in a patriarchal society like ours property in inherited by the male regardless of married status whereas we need to distinguish amongst women which have 'rights' to property when the default is missing.
Maybe my last paragraph (above) was a bit pessimistic. Maybe people are better than that.I hope so. Now why should the male title, Mr., not denote marital status when the female, Miss or Mrs.,does? I suspect that in a patriarchal society like ours property in inherited by the male regardless of married status whereas we need to distinguish amongst women which have 'rights' to property when the default is missing. chico234
  • Score: 0

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