Brighton and Hove city centre to become 20mph zone (From The Argus)

Why not 25mph?

Here we go again.Will this apply to cyclists as well. ?

Mick Hildreth, of the Brighton and Hove taxi section of GMB union, said: “Why has the council not consulted us or the local Taxi Trade Forum representatives?

That's obvious because the council don't care about your opinion. I wouldn't worry about. It is self-enforcing so if you don't like it don't do it.

Baffled of Brighton wrote:
Why not 25mph?

Because 20 is plently!

Nothing novel in this. It is being introduced in urban areas all over the country and long overdue and will have little impact on journey times.

There should be some level of enforcement even if is just the occassional speed check to keep the irresponsible minority on their toes.

I hope this will stop motorists using the Old Steine as a Grand Prix circuit but I doubt it. Most drive way over the 30mph limit as it is

This is the same Council that is against "criminalising" squatters but is quite happy to criminalise motorists. This is what happens when doctrinaire extremists get into power. Let us hope we here no more nonsense about "cuts" when they clearly have plenty of money to fund their gesture politics.

HJarrs wrote:

Baffled of Brighton wrote:
Why not 25mph?

Because 20 is plently!

Nothing novel in this. It is being introduced in urban areas all over the country and long overdue and will have little impact on journey times.

There should be some level of enforcement even if is just the occassional speed check to keep the irresponsible minority on their toes.

My road is Hartington Road. we have an old peoples home and a junior school on it. We also have had a 20 MPH speed limit in force for a long time.There are massive "20"'s painted on the road, signs everywhere saying 20! We have the speed bumps that are just in the middle of the road it is also a rat run. I reckon some cars can get up to 50 maybe more coming up or down our street. Some of them are going so fast that their exhausts clash with the top of the speed bumps that are in the middle of the road.I wish the council well with this initiative and good luck, but I dont think anyone will take notice!

This will cost £1.5m. It can't be enforced. Key groups haven't been consulted. Another mess!

So why do it? Well it's a good vanity project for the greens. How about a targeted approach outside schools, heavily residential areas. That way could get cost down to around £1/2m. So £1m saved. That'll help a lot in these pressed times - think how many key services this could deliver

Or spend £1m more on signs that aren't enforceable (or that's what the police say), will increase pollution (yes, studies have shown 20mph pollutes more than 30) and makes using buses less attractive/less frequent

It's really a no brainer to target this and save £1m+

Will this happen - no. Why? The greens aren't listening....

Still only a few years to go of them. The election is at least one that they can't change thanks to their very odd views on statistics!

NickBtn wrote:
This will cost £1.5m. It can't be enforced. Key groups haven't been consulted. Another mess! So why do it? Well it's a good vanity project for the greens. How about a targeted approach outside schools, heavily residential areas. That way could get cost down to around £1/2m. So £1m saved. That'll help a lot in these pressed times - think how many key services this could deliver Or spend £1m more on signs that aren't enforceable (or that's what the police say), will increase pollution (yes, studies have shown 20mph pollutes more than 30) and makes using buses less attractive/less frequent It's really a no brainer to target this and save £1m+ Will this happen - no. Why? The greens aren't listening.... Still only a few years to go of them. The election is at least one that they can't change thanks to their very odd views on statistics!

I rather thought it was targeted to schools and heavily residential areas as that is most of the area covered.

I would agree that there should be some enforcement as there are an irresponsible minority that will flout the rules and should be taken off the road.

If the current average is 17mph (I'm actually surprised it's that high) then the impact of this will be precisely zero to motorists.
Who are the taxi & bus drivers kidding. They drive way over the limit already, (it's 30mph from Rottingdean to Woodingdean and yet buses and taxis regulary pull away from me) so stop your bitchy girly whining Roger French & the Taxi drivers association. You've already got your own lane. Now respect the same driving laws as everyone else.

Well I for opne am looking forward to being able to drive along the A259 at 20mph, beats the snail pace we normally have to travel at.

And if they are relying on the ultra biased car hating questionaire they sent out, I reckon they could say most people wanted cars uninvented and owners to pay for the disposal. Useless minority council without a mandate for all this anti business road destroying actions that will end up costing jobs.

1.5 million pounds. Well I reckon that's about the cost of 50 lollipop persons for ten years assuming they get about 3k a year. How many kids will die due to lack of crossing patrols.

20 limits have failed to cut casualties in many areas yet the Argus selectively quotes one in London. What about Portsmouth/

Waste of money like everything else they do, 20 is NOT plenty is just to slow, i also live near schools with 20mph and speed bumps do people care? no, will people care? no it is a rat run its hell at rush hours specially if you live on the street and tring to get home or leave at rush hour.
seriously stop attacking car drivers and think of something better to do and spend money on

Will this apply to the greens favourite people, the Travellers? it's just that when they're living in the Lewes Road parks they whizz their 4 by 4s down lewes road to the shops and laundrettes, park on cycle lanes and double yellow lines outside for hours at a time and nothing happens to them. I am sure Hjarrs will now tell me i am racist for even mentioning them.

BenUk wrote:
Waste of money like everything else they do, 20 is NOT plenty is just to slow, i also live near schools with 20mph and speed bumps do people care? no, will people care? no it is a rat run its hell at rush hours specially if you live on the street and tring to get home or leave at rush hour.
seriously stop attacking car drivers and think of something better to do and spend money on

So you first saying people drive carelessly and over the limits, but then you ask why they are "attacking" drivers. Well, I think you pretty much answered yourself.

Joshiman wrote:
Here we go again.Will this apply to cyclists as well. ?

Er yes!! It will apply to road users as it does now. The speed limit is the speed limit ans is mot optional or up for discussion. The problem is that the Police don't enforce it for cyclists who are not required by law to have a speed indication devise fitted to their cycles so they are effectively above the law, as we see daily.

inadaptado wrote:

BenUk wrote:
Waste of money like everything else they do, 20 is NOT plenty is just to slow, i also live near schools with 20mph and speed bumps do people care? no, will people care? no it is a rat run its hell at rush hours specially if you live on the street and tring to get home or leave at rush hour.
seriously stop attacking car drivers and think of something better to do and spend money on

So you first saying people drive carelessly and over the limits, but then you ask why they are "attacking" drivers. Well, I think you pretty much answered yourself.

when its not rush hour there some speeders very few tho but not that i count as it dont bother me i not one of those sad people who watches and counts how meny are speeding but when its is rush hour you can't speed in my road its like a car park and people park where they want blocking drivways etc, so are they planning to make the city just like this slow moving traffic blocked up road? don't sound much diffrent but worse i can see more traffic jams waiting to happen here, there just a bunch of car haters who cant think of anything better to do.

The result of yet another sham consultation

NickBrt wrote:
Will this apply to the greens favourite people, the Travellers? it's just that when they're living in the Lewes Road parks they whizz their 4 by 4s down lewes road to the shops and laundrettes, park on cycle lanes and double yellow lines outside for hours at a time and nothing happens to them. I am sure Hjarrs will now tell me i am racist for even mentioning them.

She is becoming more and more outrageous in her extreme views, she isn't doing them any favours appearing to be robotic answer machine. A sort of Fritz Lang Metropolis.

The council has installed a sensor in ladysmith road outside my aunties house.
Apparently the amount and speed of traffic has increased significantly since the Lewes road works so traders and vehicles are using it as a rat run.
My aunt is very elderly and sits in the window watching all day and says huge lorries are now coming through the road to get to bear road. She says one van hit two cars last week hurtling through.
Lets see if the council lie about the sensor results like they lied about the Lewes road consultation.

HJarrs wrote:

Baffled of Brighton wrote:
Why not 25mph?

Because 20 is plently!

Nothing novel in this. It is being introduced in urban areas all over the country and long overdue and will have little impact on journey times.

There should be some level of enforcement even if is just the occassional speed check to keep the irresponsible minority on their toes.

It will have little impact on journey times! really? this rule will apply to ALL vehicles including the emergency vehicles, so fire engines and ambulances racing around will be a thing of the past, save road users and kill people in need of treatment and premises on fire... and before you start, even 999 vehicles have to abide by all road rules.

And your other point about speed checks! How do you enforce this then? the speed detection equipment used by the Police will not work under 30mph... it's a pity you don't see the wider picture, but time will prove you wrong.

Oh you sad sad sad people.

Don't worry chaps. The e-petition calling for a vote of no confidence and the formation of a coalition to run the city will be up and running on the B&H website by Tuesday. All we need are 1250 signatures but the more the merrier. 20 mph on side streets but on main thoroughfares no, no, no silly Kitty and friends.

NickBrt wrote:
Will this apply to the greens favourite people, the Travellers? it's just that when they're living in the Lewes Road parks they whizz their 4 by 4s down lewes road to the shops and laundrettes, park on cycle lanes and double yellow lines outside for hours at a time and nothing happens to them. I am sure Hjarrs will now tell me i am racist for even mentioning them.

Yawn

I wouldn't recommend driving more than 20mph anyway, the road surfaces are so bad in Brighton (even on the main routes) you will pay in car repairs in the end.

HJarrs wrote:

Baffled of Brighton wrote:
Why not 25mph?

Because 20 is plently!

Nothing novel in this. It is being introduced in urban areas all over the country and long overdue and will have little impact on journey times.

There should be some level of enforcement even if is just the occassional speed check to keep the irresponsible minority on their toes.

According to the green party's very own 'village idiot'

would like to think the 20mph speed limit would make a difference. I live on the Meadowview estate and we have a 20 mph speed limit. But some of the vehicles which drive on the estate do not adhere to the speed limit.

The ghasly scum travellers ruined the annual Schools Cross Country & caused distress to lots of kids because their arrival caused cancellation on the day of the event .Were they invited by visage merde cochon Lucas ? Are they still there because she put a D2 notice on the volkspolitzei ?
Do the Green communist party care about the kids ? Do they F**k !

inadaptado wrote:

BenUk wrote:
Waste of money like everything else they do, 20 is NOT plenty is just to slow, i also live near schools with 20mph and speed bumps do people care? no, will people care? no it is a rat run its hell at rush hours specially if you live on the street and tring to get home or leave at rush hour.
seriously stop attacking car drivers and think of something better to do and spend money on

So you first saying people drive carelessly and over the limits, but then you ask why they are "attacking" drivers. Well, I think you pretty much answered yourself.

What a wonderful post.You said it how it is my friend.Thank you.

Dave At Home wrote:

HJarrs wrote:

Baffled of Brighton wrote:
Why not 25mph?

Because 20 is plently!

Nothing novel in this. It is being introduced in urban areas all over the country and long overdue and will have little impact on journey times.

There should be some level of enforcement even if is just the occassional speed check to keep the irresponsible minority on their toes.

It will have little impact on journey times! really? this rule will apply to ALL vehicles including the emergency vehicles, so fire engines and ambulances racing around will be a thing of the past, save road users and kill people in need of treatment and premises on fire... and before you start, even 999 vehicles have to abide by all road rules.

And your other point about speed checks! How do you enforce this then? the speed detection equipment used by the Police will not work under 30mph... it's a pity you don't see the wider picture, but time will prove you wrong.

No it won't apply to emergency vehicles, just as it doesn't now at 30.

tonybee wrote:
The ghasly scum travellers ruined the annual Schools Cross Country & caused distress to lots of kids because their arrival caused cancellation on the day of the event .Were they invited by visage merde cochon Lucas ? Are they still there because she put a D2 notice on the volkspolitzei ?
Do the Green communist party care about the kids ? Do they F**k !

I believe a new colloquial term has been born for "indignant incandescent rage" to be known forthwith as an attack of the "Carolines" :))

qm wrote:

tonybee wrote:
The ghasly scum travellers ruined the annual Schools Cross Country & caused distress to lots of kids because their arrival caused cancellation on the day of the event .Were they invited by visage merde cochon Lucas ? Are they still there because she put a D2 notice on the volkspolitzei ?
Do the Green communist party care about the kids ? Do they F**k !

I believe a new colloquial term has been born for "indignant incandescent rage" to be known forthwith as an attack of the "Carolines" :))

Or maybe we could consider a broader title, which presents the further potential benefit of an acronym that lends itself to the nonsensical traveler situation.

Caroline's Unpalatable Nonsensical Traveler Support...

..originating from a bunch of Green *****

The vast majority of our neighbouring countries have had such a limit in place for years; and yes they can and do use speed traps, often hidden away in cars and vans, zero tolerance as well.
Drivers in these countries will also have to give way to all pedestrians and cyclists and pretty much give way to anything coming from the right, especially in Germany where there are few road markings in town.
Even when turning on a green light they will have to give way to anyone crossing as the pedestrians will also have a green light. What a shock to the rude and imperious UK driver that would be! With their 'right of way' attitude.
If you park where you shouldn't there's a fair chance your car will be towed away in moments, and with no great concern for not damaging it either. You'll get little or no sympathy from your insurance company for your stupidity.
In the UK drivers very occasionally at the very few highly expensive crossings may have to give way to pedestrians, and occasionally cyclists. They, the drivers, will even pull in front of pedestrians actually crossing the road, as if these people were invisible. In Spain and France this would earn you at least a frown and more, especially in Spain, your car being spat on or kicked.
The road junctions in the UK are clearly marked and for most of the time it is only ever other vehicles the drivers need be concerned about; they have it easy, very easy.
About time to stop whingeing I reckon.

Old Ladys Gin wrote:
The vast majority of our neighbouring countries have had such a limit in place for years; and yes they can and do use speed traps, often hidden away in cars and vans, zero tolerance as well.
Drivers in these countries will also have to give way to all pedestrians and cyclists and pretty much give way to anything coming from the right, especially in Germany where there are few road markings in town.
Even when turning on a green light they will have to give way to anyone crossing as the pedestrians will also have a green light. What a shock to the rude and imperious UK driver that would be! With their 'right of way' attitude.
If you park where you shouldn't there's a fair chance your car will be towed away in moments, and with no great concern for not damaging it either. You'll get little or no sympathy from your insurance company for your stupidity.
In the UK drivers very occasionally at the very few highly expensive crossings may have to give way to pedestrians, and occasionally cyclists. They, the drivers, will even pull in front of pedestrians actually crossing the road, as if these people were invisible. In Spain and France this would earn you at least a frown and more, especially in Spain, your car being spat on or kicked.
The road junctions in the UK are clearly marked and for most of the time it is only ever other vehicles the drivers need be concerned about; they have it easy, very easy.
About time to stop whingeing I reckon.

Very amusing. Have you ever visited Paris?

Or Rome or Berlin.
Rose tinted glasses.
Anyway until this council stops motorists parking in cycle lanes then this will just be another waste of money as these self enforcing schemes just don't work

HJarrs wrote:

Baffled of Brighton wrote:
Why not 25mph?

Because 20 is plently!

Nothing novel in this. It is being introduced in urban areas all over the country and long overdue and will have little impact on journey times.

There should be some level of enforcement even if is just the occassional speed check to keep the irresponsible minority on their toes.

Oh shutup you idiot. Have you ever driven 20mph? It is dreadfully slow as is 30mph. I will definitely not drive at 20mph, how do they expect people to get about will take so much longer. What another stupid idea by this council.

Won't make the slightest bit of difference to me. I do forty all the time in the city and get from a to b efficiently and quickly. I know all the rat runs and back routes, and the location of all fixed cameras. I also know its impossible for the police to enforce this, as they can't enforce the existing speed limits.
So who cares? Not me. Service as normal.

I have said this many times before!! Speed does not kill!! Ignorance does!!

A car could drive around at high speed all day with not even a 'near miss' let alone and accident!! You put an inpatient driver at a junction or a dopey pedestrian stepping out I front of an oncoming vehicle you have an accident waiting to happen.

I'm all for making roads safer but rather than punishing sensible drivers (people), educate these idiots who are the real cause of the problems

Brightonlad86 wrote:
I have said this many times before!! Speed does not kill!! Ignorance does!!

A car could drive around at high speed all day with not even a 'near miss' let alone and accident!! You put an inpatient driver at a junction or a dopey pedestrian stepping out I front of an oncoming vehicle you have an accident waiting to happen.

I'm all for making roads safer but rather than punishing sensible drivers (people), educate these idiots who are the real cause of the problems

Well said.

Brightonlad86 wrote:
I have said this many times before!! Speed does not kill!! Ignorance does!!

A car could drive around at high speed all day with not even a 'near miss' let alone and accident!! You put an inpatient driver at a junction or a dopey pedestrian stepping out I front of an oncoming vehicle you have an accident waiting to happen.

I'm all for making roads safer but rather than punishing sensible drivers (people), educate these idiots who are the real cause of the problems

Well said.

So this is all based on a ‘clear majority’.

10.000 surveys sent out. 37% respond. 2089 in favour and 1660 against - a difference of 429 people in a city of what 0.25 million. Welcome to Green democracy!!

Nice to see this, hopefully will stop tailgating Brightion Taxi's and others causing unnessecary stress, bring it on!.

funkyyoyo wrote:
a vehicle travelling at 20 mph emits more pollution than a vehicle doing 30- FACT!! any more great inspiring ideas from you bunch of muppets,maybe a ufo landing pod at black rock or maybe a totall ban on pink bikes!!!!!! complete and utter morons

Exactly, what in fact it means is, if we get hit it won't hurt as much, but we will still have to go to hospital, because we can't breath, due to the extra pollution As usual the yoghurt knitters haven't thought it through. In the same way they didn't realise that if they put the parking charges up, no one would visit the city, so they would have to try and stop the single persons council tax reduction. They are so stupid they don't even seemed to have realised, that in doing all this, they are doing themselves out of a job. . . . Time for bed said Kitkat

Ballroom Blitz wrote:

Brightonlad86 wrote: I have said this many times before!! Speed does not kill!! Ignorance does!! A car could drive around at high speed all day with not even a 'near miss' let alone and accident!! You put an inpatient driver at a junction or a dopey pedestrian stepping out I front of an oncoming vehicle you have an accident waiting to happen. I'm all for making roads safer but rather than punishing sensible drivers (people), educate these idiots who are the real cause of the problems

Well said.

Not really.

Out of 100 drivers you may get one who has the reflexes and ability of Vettell at his best.
That leaves the other 99.

Out of 100 pedestrians on a Monday morning you may get 5 with a hangover, 3 blind people, and old woman, and perhaps 5 who are able to nimbly jump out of the way of the 99 drivers who are not Vettell-like in their ability. There may also be 20 who are school kids still learning about the road environment.

Speed dramatically cuts down the time available to make decisions - not everyone has the experience to drive like Vettell, and not all pedestrians are clued up on when the best time is to cross the road.

Therefore to say 'speed doesn't kill' is absolute stupidity.

graham_Seagull wrote:

Ballroom Blitz wrote:

Brightonlad86 wrote: I have said this many times before!! Speed does not kill!! Ignorance does!! A car could drive around at high speed all day with not even a 'near miss' let alone and accident!! You put an inpatient driver at a junction or a dopey pedestrian stepping out I front of an oncoming vehicle you have an accident waiting to happen. I'm all for making roads safer but rather than punishing sensible drivers (people), educate these idiots who are the real cause of the problems

Well said.

Not really.

Out of 100 drivers you may get one who has the reflexes and ability of Vettell at his best.
That leaves the other 99.

Out of 100 pedestrians on a Monday morning you may get 5 with a hangover, 3 blind people, and old woman, and perhaps 5 who are able to nimbly jump out of the way of the 99 drivers who are not Vettell-like in their ability. There may also be 20 who are school kids still learning about the road environment.

Speed dramatically cuts down the time available to make decisions - not everyone has the experience to drive like Vettell, and not all pedestrians are clued up on when the best time is to cross the road.

Therefore to say 'speed doesn't kill' is absolute stupidity.

I'm not talking driving 100mph in built up zones. If its busy slow down, if its not then where is the harm in speeding up? Take country roads for example. 60mph... Is it safe to drive at those speeds? Of course not! Should you slow down in bad weather?? Yes. As I said, drive to the condition of the road.

Yes, granted, there are some bad drivers.. These drivers are not going to adhere to the new speed limits anyway!

If I was blind or not nimble enough (such as my mum) to get out the way I would use the crossing facilities which are designed for those who struggle. If I was unable to do this I would ensure I have assistance when going out.

While I am not over happy with the practicalities of a 20mph limit, I feel more could be done to decrease injuries and driver stress by ensuring that pedestrians and cyclists wear appropriate clothing with reflective properties...with the new decreased lighting levels on our roads and the current preference by all road users to wear black at night it is a nightmare scenario. Cyclists without lights....how about some enforcement of the Highway Code by our police colleagues. I doubt if these improvements would cost the council anywhere near the estimates for introducing a 20mph limit and would undoubtably save just as many lives.