City's bid to scrap council tax discount (From The Argus)
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City's bid to scrap council tax discount
3:45pm Sunday 25th November 2012 in News By Neil Vowles
Thousands of households in Brighton and Hove face losing their council tax discounts in a historic move being considered by the city council.
A leading Green councillor has written to Government minister Eric Pickles calling for powers to cut or reduce the discounts for the city’s student and single households.
The move would net Brighton and Hove City Council millions of pounds in extra revenue each year.
It comes as the authority’s policy and resources committee is expected to agree to cut the council tax discount for second and empty home owners.
The 1,800 second home owners will lose their 10% discount, The length of time owners of empty properties can claim council tax exemptions will be reduced.
Last year 17,000 people received the reduction.
This would raise £1 million a year, but Coun Leo Littman’s proposals to extend the cuts to students and single occupants could bring in up to £20 million.
Brighton and Hove has the lowest proportion of property owners paying the full council tax on homes in Sussex with nearly half of all properties eligible for discounts or exemptions.
About 57,000 properties in the city currently claim council tax exemption or discounts, including 4,500 student homes and 45,000 homes lived in by single occupants.
It is not known how much council tax students and single occupants could be made to pay under the pro posals, but if both were made to pay full council tax on band C homes it would raise an extra £20 million a year.
Coun Littman, deputy chair of policy and resources committee, said: “Council tax is far from a perfect system and is in need of root and branch reform.
In Brighton and Hove we have an unusually high number of homes occupied by students who are exempt from council tax and single-person households that get a significant discount and both are growing rapidly as a proportion of homes in the city.
“I’ve asked the Government to con sider changes to allow councils to make the balance of local tax paid fairer and more sustainable.”
In his letter to Mr Pickles, Secretary of State for Local Government, Coun Littman wrote that even a very small percentage change to the levels of discounts would make a “tangible difference”.
Labour group leader Gill Mitchell said: “We do not believe that individual students should pay council tax but we do believe that the Government should add additional funding to local authority government grants for those areas with high numbers of students.
“We are very concerned low income households will be paying council tax for the first time due to Government cuts to the housing benefit budget which will affect 10,000 households in Brighton and Hove.”
A spokesman for the Department for Communities and Local Government said: “The Local Government Finance Act 2012 has given councils the flexibility to remove or reduce council tax relief on empty homes and second homes; these flexibilities could help reduce the overall rate of council tax by £20 on an average Band D home.
“We will not be making any further changes and the long-standing student exemption and single person discount on council tax will remain in place.”
Comments(68)
NickBtn
says...
4:24pm Sun 25 Nov 12
Just shows how naive the greens are
Won't ever happen as government has prevented councils from changing these parts of council tax
Students please note - the greens will turn on you too....
btnman
says...
4:31pm Sun 25 Nov 12
B G Gruff
says...
4:39pm Sun 25 Nov 12
fredaj
says...
5:19pm Sun 25 Nov 12
How is that fair?
As for student households - it has long seemed odd to me that people who rent accommodation to students as a business do not contribute to the costs of running the local services their tenants consume - so perhaps it is time this changed.
Dealing with idiots
says...
5:24pm Sun 25 Nov 12
Joshiman wrote:Vote of no confidence e- petition goes live on the Brighton & Hove Tuesday. 1250 votes get it discussed in Full council. No more wait until the Greens implode policy from Labour and Conservatives thank you.
Let them dare.Vote of absolutely No confidence in this Green Party.
leobrighton
says...
5:37pm Sun 25 Nov 12
NickBrt
says...
5:40pm Sun 25 Nov 12
Maxwell's Ghost
says...
5:46pm Sun 25 Nov 12
These are run as businesses and ever business in the city has to pay a business tax and also every business has to pay a private company to remove rubbish but we have 4,500 student properties being run as businesses and serviced by the council for free.
That isn't right.
hovian
says...
5:58pm Sun 25 Nov 12
fredaj wrote:couldn't agree more - Greens will lose any support they have left if they remove single person discount....
So the greens want people who live on their own on a single income, without the children who consume huge amounts of council resources, to subsidise everyone else more than they already do?
How is that fair?
As for student households - it has long seemed odd to me that people who rent accommodation to students as a business do not contribute to the costs of running the local services their tenants consume - so perhaps it is time this changed.
Andy R
says...
6:03pm Sun 25 Nov 12
Maxwell's Ghost
says...
6:13pm Sun 25 Nov 12
Hove Actually
says...
6:13pm Sun 25 Nov 12
B G Gruff wrote:Idiot...
might as well investigate this route. be good if they could make the landlords of student houses pay in some way
The landlords would just pass this onto the students, righty so too
Zeta Function
says...
6:14pm Sun 25 Nov 12
No wonder there's a shortfall.
It is time for all homes in England to be re-valued, accurately. Not the rushed job they did in 1991. And forget the mansion tax, bring in a banding system to accurately value real estate at the top end.
The government says no. So we have this farce of Brighton and Hove council seeing if they can squeeze further funds from mainly the young and elderly. More injustice.
Shambles.
How much longer will people put up with this cloud cuckoo land goverment and their 'not fit for purpose' systems of administration?
On_the_Level
says...
6:14pm Sun 25 Nov 12
Angryoldman
says...
6:17pm Sun 25 Nov 12
Hove Actually
says...
6:18pm Sun 25 Nov 12
You couldn't make this S**t up ........
unless your name is kitcrap
GovindaTim
says...
6:32pm Sun 25 Nov 12
On_the_Level wrote:You are an idiot.
It's about time 'Lone Rangers' get to pay their way - discount for living alone is absurd and unhealthy
NickBtn
says...
6:43pm Sun 25 Nov 12
Maxwell's Ghost wrote:The council is not allowed to make a profit on HMO fees. Despite this they're still charging an average of over £600 for each - must be paying the inspectors a fortune for that visit! Will be very interesting when these are challenged later for the council to prove that a profit hasn't been made. I suspect lots of cash will be returned to landlords in a few years time
If the council cannot charge for council tax for student properties via the council taxation route it can increase the HMO annual licence fee to £1,300 per annum which will cover the lost revenue and be levied directly on the owner or limited company many of the student lets are rented out under.
With house prices at the high level they are in Brighton there aren't such huge profits that these costs will be paid for by the landlords - they will be passed on to the students (at a higher rate because the landlord needs to allow for fees/other taxes too)
So one way or another, the cost would be paid for by the students. The students would pay more under this green policy....
vivelavive
says...
6:49pm Sun 25 Nov 12
GovindaTim wrote:Couldn't agree more!
On_the_Level wrote:You are an idiot.
It's about time 'Lone Rangers' get to pay their way - discount for living alone is absurd and unhealthy
taman
says...
6:56pm Sun 25 Nov 12
Ballroom Blitz
says...
7:19pm Sun 25 Nov 12
NickBtn wrote:Good.
Maxwell's Ghost wrote:The council is not allowed to make a profit on HMO fees. Despite this they're still charging an average of over £600 for each - must be paying the inspectors a fortune for that visit! Will be very interesting when these are challenged later for the council to prove that a profit hasn't been made. I suspect lots of cash will be returned to landlords in a few years time
If the council cannot charge for council tax for student properties via the council taxation route it can increase the HMO annual licence fee to £1,300 per annum which will cover the lost revenue and be levied directly on the owner or limited company many of the student lets are rented out under.
With house prices at the high level they are in Brighton there aren't such huge profits that these costs will be paid for by the landlords - they will be passed on to the students (at a higher rate because the landlord needs to allow for fees/other taxes too)
So one way or another, the cost would be paid for by the students. The students would pay more under this green policy....
Maxwell's Ghost
says...
7:49pm Sun 25 Nov 12
However, waste is collected weekly.
Also the refuse and fly tipping inspectors are here at least once a month as they just dump stuff and dump waste on the streets which is replicated across the city so I doubt profit would be made.
Perhaps then it's time all of these student businesses are treated as all other businesses and the owners have to use private refuse collection.
Quite frankly Nick I find it galling that the multi million pound owners of the house who don't even live in the city are reaping a tax break.
Its typical that the rich get a hand out and leave residents to have to phone the council to clear the fly tipping or shovel up their waste every week without fail.
However, the three Labour councillors representing the ward I live in are never to be seen and are completely useless at getting action.
NickBtn
says...
8:30pm Sun 25 Nov 12
Maxwell's Ghost wrote:None of the money from the HMO licence can go on this - or to fund other useful services such as an extension of the noise team. It all goes on officers for the inspections. Five employees for 5 years = £1m (that's what the finance case for the HMO licence says).
Ok Nick, the house next to me pays no council tax as its student exempt.
However, waste is collected weekly.
Also the refuse and fly tipping inspectors are here at least once a month as they just dump stuff and dump waste on the streets which is replicated across the city so I doubt profit would be made.
Perhaps then it's time all of these student businesses are treated as all other businesses and the owners have to use private refuse collection.
Quite frankly Nick I find it galling that the multi million pound owners of the house who don't even live in the city are reaping a tax break.
Its typical that the rich get a hand out and leave residents to have to phone the council to clear the fly tipping or shovel up their waste every week without fail.
However, the three Labour councillors representing the ward I live in are never to be seen and are completely useless at getting action.
If the house was rented to a family rather than students then the family pays council tax rather than the landlords. Ditto for professional house sharers.
It is unfair that students don't directly pay for these services as others do - but it's a concession won nationally many years ago. Government pays a grant to councils to make up for this - but claims are this isn't at a fair level
I agree with you about fly tipping. I see this from student and professional shared houses near me. Also from others too - although less so. The problem is that many in Brighton don't own cars, the fees to get many broken items collected are crazy (£30+) so the temptation to dump is there. A more imaginative option for non-car owners needs to be thought of
inadaptado
says...
8:38pm Sun 25 Nov 12
Dealing with idiots wrote:Yeah, I'm sure the Green council will resign immediately when they know a 0,8% of Brighton bothered to click on a website to express their disagreement.
Joshiman wrote:Vote of no confidence e- petition goes live on the Brighton & Hove Tuesday. 1250 votes get it discussed in Full council. No more wait until the Greens implode policy from Labour and Conservatives thank you.
Let them dare.Vote of absolutely No confidence in this Green Party.
If Argus commenters invested as much time and energy on real politics as they do complaining here they would run the country. Thank god they all are bark and no bite.
Lady Smith
says...
9:02pm Sun 25 Nov 12
fredaj wrote:If they go ahead with this and discriminate against the many thousands of us in this city who choose to live in single-households, I will actively campaign against every councillor who votes for it, regardless of their politics. >-(
So the greens want people who live on their own on a single income, without the children who consume huge amounts of council resources, to subsidise everyone else more than they already do?
How is that fair?
As for student households - it has long seemed odd to me that people who rent accommodation to students as a business do not contribute to the costs of running the local services their tenants consume - so perhaps it is time this changed.
AmboGuy
says...
9:11pm Sun 25 Nov 12
Lady Smith wrote:Yep agreed. Get these awfull amateurs out of power - they're wrecking my city and I've been here a lot longer than them.
fredaj wrote:If they go ahead with this and discriminate against the many thousands of us in this city who choose to live in single-households, I will actively campaign against every councillor who votes for it, regardless of their politics. >-(
So the greens want people who live on their own on a single income, without the children who consume huge amounts of council resources, to subsidise everyone else more than they already do?
How is that fair?
As for student households - it has long seemed odd to me that people who rent accommodation to students as a business do not contribute to the costs of running the local services their tenants consume - so perhaps it is time this changed.
leobrighton
says...
9:17pm Sun 25 Nov 12
Dirk Von Roden
says...
9:43pm Sun 25 Nov 12
Joshiman
says...
9:56pm Sun 25 Nov 12
Joshiman
says...
9:56pm Sun 25 Nov 12
Maxwell's Ghost
says...
10:44pm Sun 25 Nov 12
The biggest spenders in any economy are first time young home buyers who purchase white goods and homewares not students in the lower income brackets.
And anyway with fees as high as they are, the likelihood is that unis will have to offer educational packages of fees and three year provided accommodation so the student homes will return to the open market.
Already in my street a quarter of the slum student homes have been sold to young couples and the transformation in the standard of property is immediate, new windows, render, gardens etc lots of investment for local traders.
Kedge
says...
10:55pm Sun 25 Nov 12
Vigilia
says...
11:05pm Sun 25 Nov 12
qm
says...
11:21pm Sun 25 Nov 12
vivelavive wrote:Ditto - absolute twerp!
GovindaTim wrote:Couldn't agree more!
On_the_Level wrote:You are an idiot.
It's about time 'Lone Rangers' get to pay their way - discount for living alone is absurd and unhealthy
Bearfaced
says...
11:32pm Sun 25 Nov 12
funkyyoyo
says...
12:11am Mon 26 Nov 12
NickBtn wrote:if they do,just goto the ECHR everyone else seems too go down that road!!!
Very odd - the greens wanting to tax students, their key support group, more! That would go down well! Just shows how naive the greens are Won't ever happen as government has prevented councils from changing these parts of council tax Students please note - the greens will turn on you too....
funkyyoyo
says...
12:13am Mon 26 Nov 12
Dealing with idiots wrote:im on there and will spread the word big time
Joshiman wrote: Let them dare.Vote of absolutely No confidence in this Green Party.Vote of no confidence e- petition goes live on the Brighton & Hove Tuesday. 1250 votes get it discussed in Full council. No more wait until the Greens implode policy from Labour and Conservatives thank you.
greeg2
says...
12:13am Mon 26 Nov 12
On_the_Level wrote:You've obviously never done a days work in your life.
It's about time 'Lone Rangers' get to pay their way - discount for living alone is absurd and unhealthy
funkyyoyo
says...
12:15am Mon 26 Nov 12
Andy R wrote:i wouldnt listen to a word that muppet kitkat has to say,he lied to me on the phone regarding the legislation in the road traffic manual act,what a numpty,no wonder he avoids my calls,be a man and call me back you useless mop bucket!!!!
A dwelling wholly occupied by students is exempt from council tax anyway and the council has no power to change that. My understanding is that Kitcat is saying now that the Argus has misunderstood and that there never was any plan to charge students.
funkyyoyo
says...
12:16am Mon 26 Nov 12
Zeta Function wrote:mass non payment of council tax will have every tv station news company descending on brighton,rhe great british unwashed fight back!!'
Council tax is based on 1991 property values! No wonder there's a shortfall. It is time for all homes in England to be re-valued, accurately. Not the rushed job they did in 1991. And forget the mansion tax, bring in a banding system to accurately value real estate at the top end. The government says no. So we have this farce of Brighton and Hove council seeing if they can squeeze further funds from mainly the young and elderly. More injustice. Shambles. How much longer will people put up with this cloud cuckoo land goverment and their 'not fit for purpose' systems of administration?
funkyyoyo
says...
12:17am Mon 26 Nov 12
Zeta Function wrote:mass non payment of council tax will have every tv station news company descending on brighton,the great british unwashed fight back!! sometimes if you want whats right for you,fight your corner and never ever ever give up!!'
Council tax is based on 1991 property values! No wonder there's a shortfall. It is time for all homes in England to be re-valued, accurately. Not the rushed job they did in 1991. And forget the mansion tax, bring in a banding system to accurately value real estate at the top end. The government says no. So we have this farce of Brighton and Hove council seeing if they can squeeze further funds from mainly the young and elderly. More injustice. Shambles. How much longer will people put up with this cloud cuckoo land goverment and their 'not fit for purpose' systems of administration?
funkyyoyo
says...
12:21am Mon 26 Nov 12
Hove Actually wrote:couldnt agree more with you,i made 2 mistakes in my life,one
So the greeies want to punish OAPs when one of them dies and the surviving spouse on a much reduced income has to pay 100% council tax instead of receiving a meager discount of 25%. You couldn't make this S**t up ........ unless your name is kitcrap
was the old trout i went out with (the local tandem) and the 2 nd was voting for the greens,i feel utterly embarrased at the mistake i made!!! next time it WILL NOT be the greens. i heard the new leader on LBC radio today,and shes another looney! im sure you can download the broadcast on podcast or goto their website lbcdotcodotuk
funkyyoyo
says...
12:25am Mon 26 Nov 12
NickBtn wrote:its very simple,do a freedom of information request to the council directly, i did and had confirmation that the reason some parking bays are being repainted is because they are illegal,unenforcable and do not comply with current legislation, norfolk square,( going down off western road) is exactly my point, then go up the other side back onto western road,and hey presto....legally marked bays!! been a problem for council for at least 8 years when jenny rowland was running that 'not fit for puropose' signs and lines department within the council!!! tooroo!!!
Maxwell's Ghost wrote: If the council cannot charge for council tax for student properties via the council taxation route it can increase the HMO annual licence fee to £1,300 per annum which will cover the lost revenue and be levied directly on the owner or limited company many of the student lets are rented out under.The council is not allowed to make a profit on HMO fees. Despite this they're still charging an average of over £600 for each - must be paying the inspectors a fortune for that visit! Will be very interesting when these are challenged later for the council to prove that a profit hasn't been made. I suspect lots of cash will be returned to landlords in a few years time With house prices at the high level they are in Brighton there aren't such huge profits that these costs will be paid for by the landlords - they will be passed on to the students (at a higher rate because the landlord needs to allow for fees/other taxes too) So one way or another, the cost would be paid for by the students. The students would pay more under this green policy....
funkyyoyo
says...
12:27am Mon 26 Nov 12
taman wrote:goto the councils website on tuesday,get all your friends family ex's,enemies to sign too!! iv so far got 35 people,and theyre mostly shopkeepers who are able to vote!!
where do i sign the no confidence e-petition ?
funkyyoyo
says...
12:30am Mon 26 Nov 12
Maxwell's Ghost wrote:sometimes a
Ok Nick, the house next to me pays no council tax as its student exempt. However, waste is collected weekly. Also the refuse and fly tipping inspectors are here at least once a month as they just dump stuff and dump waste on the streets which is replicated across the city so I doubt profit would be made. Perhaps then it's time all of these student businesses are treated as all other businesses and the owners have to use private refuse collection. Quite frankly Nick I find it galling that the multi million pound owners of the house who don't even live in the city are reaping a tax break. Its typical that the rich get a hand out and leave residents to have to phone the council to clear the fly tipping or shovel up their waste every week without fail. However, the three Labour councillors representing the ward I live in are never to be seen and are completely useless at getting action.
gentle word with the student neighbours can work,it worked for me as they behave now i spoke to the letting agency. oh also the threat to sue the letting agents for breaching my human right to a quiet and peaceful life (on behalf of their tenants) worked!!!!!!!!
Maxwell's Ghost
says...
6:44am Mon 26 Nov 12
It's unfair, student lets are run as a business so the landlords should face the same tax as other businesses.
This council is only looking at clawing back money because its screwed up its key revenue stream which is parking.
The charges are so high that revenue is already £700,000 down so now the Greens are going to try and get us to pay for their mistake so yes, one could stop paying council tax until they agree to manage a golden revenue stream more appropriately.
They really don't have a grip on running a business which is really what councils are.
Kate234
says...
7:55am Mon 26 Nov 12
Dealing with idiots wrote:If it gets discussed in full council is there anything full council can do to get rid of the Greens. Obviously it will create lots of bad PR for them nationally but other than this?
Joshiman wrote:Vote of no confidence e- petition goes live on the Brighton & Hove Tuesday. 1250 votes get it discussed in Full council. No more wait until the Greens implode policy from Labour and Conservatives thank you.
Let them dare.Vote of absolutely No confidence in this Green Party.
whereisthe...?
says...
8:47am Mon 26 Nov 12
Believe the above or not - your choice, but I cant say I was surprised to learn this stupid idea was his work.
(And no, not going to go into details - this comments section is done on the basis of anonymity)
Smartbloke
says...
9:19am Mon 26 Nov 12
This city is full of ignorant people, and mostly read the Argus, it seems.
Crystal Ball
says...
10:00am Mon 26 Nov 12
On_the_Level wrote:You tool.
It's about time 'Lone Rangers' get to pay their way - discount for living alone is absurd and unhealthy
Jimmy Stewart's Imaginary Rabbit
says...
10:10am Mon 26 Nov 12
There. I've said a complimentary thing about Green councillors. I'm off for a lie-down ...
Nosfaratu
says...
10:31am Mon 26 Nov 12
Smartbloke wrote:You seem to be on your own !
Ah, the dim Argus Comments Section and their arrogant assumption that students voted The Greens in. This city is full of ignorant people, and mostly read the Argus, it seems.
Lady Smith
says...
11:19am Mon 26 Nov 12
http://present.brigh
ton-hove.gov.uk/mgEP
etitionDisplay.aspx?
ID=346&RPID=6001827&
HPID=6001827
Joshiman
says...
12:41pm Mon 26 Nov 12
ton-hove.gov.uk/mgEP
etitionDisplay.aspx?
ID=346&RPID=6001827&
HPID=6001827”
Is this correct ?it wont let me log on
also does anyone else find that the Argus website is slow and sometimes takes ages to load
Fight_Back
says...
12:52pm Mon 26 Nov 12
Zeta Function wrote:The band a property is in is based on 1991 property values NOT the amount of tax. It's pretty much irrelevant which point in time the band is calculated. Even properties that have been improved get re-graded. An interesting rant though !
Council tax is based on 1991 property values!
No wonder there's a shortfall.
It is time for all homes in England to be re-valued, accurately. Not the rushed job they did in 1991. And forget the mansion tax, bring in a banding system to accurately value real estate at the top end.
The government says no. So we have this farce of Brighton and Hove council seeing if they can squeeze further funds from mainly the young and elderly. More injustice.
Shambles.
How much longer will people put up with this cloud cuckoo land goverment and their 'not fit for purpose' systems of administration?
Fairfax Sakes
says...
1:34pm Mon 26 Nov 12
Zamora25
says...
1:50pm Mon 26 Nov 12
bas466
says...
2:05pm Mon 26 Nov 12
On_the_Level wrote:Explain why please as myself and many other single people would love to know your views on this.
It's about time 'Lone Rangers' get to pay their way - discount for living alone is absurd and unhealthy
I work full time, I pay my own way in life on what is classed as a low income so consequently I struggle to make ends meet month on month (I get no financial help from anyone by the way).
Why should I pay the same amount of council tax as a couple living together or a house share etc? There is only one of me, only one income, and we still only get 25% discount. Would you expect us single people to pay for other peoples groceries or other daily essentials? No, bet you wouldn't.
wizard2
says...
2:30pm Mon 26 Nov 12
Bob!
says...
4:38pm Mon 26 Nov 12
bas466 wrote:Because Council Tax is a property tax, that's why!
On_the_Level wrote: It's about time 'Lone Rangers' get to pay their way - discount for living alone is absurd and unhealthyExplain why please as myself and many other single people would love to know your views on this. I work full time, I pay my own way in life on what is classed as a low income so consequently I struggle to make ends meet month on month (I get no financial help from anyone by the way). Why should I pay the same amount of council tax as a couple living together or a house share etc? There is only one of me, only one income, and we still only get 25% discount. Would you expect us single people to pay for other peoples groceries or other daily essentials? No, bet you wouldn't.
Bob!
says...
4:42pm Mon 26 Nov 12
The Welfare Reform Act 2012 has abolished the existing national council tax benefit scheme with effect from 1 April 2013. The Government has passed most of the responsibility for deciding who should receive assistance with their Council Tax to individual local authorities.
The Government has also reduced the amount of money that it is giving local authorities to help pay for council tax support by 10% nationally.
Where do you suggest the extra money that the Government is asking all Council Tax payers should come from?
An across the board 10% rise in Council Tax perhaps?
Bob!
says...
4:43pm Mon 26 Nov 12
The Welfare Reform Act 2012 has abolished the existing national council tax benefit scheme with effect from 1 April 2013. The Government has passed most of the responsibility for deciding who should receive assistance with their Council Tax to individual local authorities.
The Government has also reduced the amount of money that it is giving local authorities to help pay for council tax support by 10% nationally.
Where do you suggest the extra money that the Government is asking all Council Tax payers should come from?
An across the board 10% rise in Council Tax perhaps?”
Joshiman
says...
4:54pm Mon 26 Nov 12
Bob! wrote:Simple cut down on the pen pushers/skivers/over
The reason for these changes is Central Government cuts to the funding of Council Tax discounts.
The Welfare Reform Act 2012 has abolished the existing national council tax benefit scheme with effect from 1 April 2013. The Government has passed most of the responsibility for deciding who should receive assistance with their Council Tax to individual local authorities.
The Government has also reduced the amount of money that it is giving local authorities to help pay for council tax support by 10% nationally.
Where do you suggest the extra money that the Government is asking all Council Tax payers should come from?
An across the board 10% rise in Council Tax perhaps?”
paid bosses who work for the council.
Sussex jim
says...
6:19pm Mon 26 Nov 12
kapple999
says...
11:55am Tue 27 Nov 12
ripmaxman
says...
12:12pm Tue 27 Nov 12
They should take a course in how to set budgets correctly and not assume that taking a figure based on some spurious sum and dividing it up will be a true reflection of income less out goings. I wonder if anyone thought of doing a “what if” on the calculations.
Obviously not!!!!!!!! IDIOTS. What are the other parties doing to stop the Green’s ruining our City???
LET’S HAVE A VOTE OF NO CONFIDENCE
westpiergone
says...
12:09pm Wed 28 Nov 12
ye Bye greens & good riddance !!!
Joshiman says...
4:08pm Sun 25 Nov 12