Have a say on plan for central Hove roundabout

Mini-roundabout plans are open for consultation.

Residents, businesses, commuters and other interested parties are being invited to have their say on plans to improve safety at a busy junction near Hove station.

Brighton and Hove City Council would like to construct the roundabout at the junction of Goldstone Villas, Eaton Villas and Clarendon Villas.

The local authority said in the last three years eight people have been injured – four cyclists, two drivers and two pedestrians.

Letters are being sent to 1,000 homes and businesses in the area.

Tomorrow council staff will be at Hove Station between 4pm and 7pm to give rail passengers a chance to give their views.

Comments are being accepted until December 21.

For more details visit consult.brighton-hove.gov.uk/public/bhcc/etp/goldstone or call 01273 290235.

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Comments (22)

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9:02am Tue 4 Dec 12

Valerie Paynter says...

This is absolutely insane! There isn't the space for a roundabout!!!!!

The problem here is the treatment of Clarendon Villas as a rat-run over Goldstone Villas at a point where parked buses obscure the view, pedestrians rush about running for the buses and there is a taxi rank opposite the parked buses.

Is the bus stop in the best place? Has that been considered? Is the taxi rank in the best place?

How about the river of traffic that S-bends at speed from the corner of Ventnor villas up to and into Goldstone Villas? By the time they have executed that move, they are almost at the junction in question. How many of the accidents have involved vehicles or bicycles who arrive at this junction after this manoeuvre?

Swap the Hova Villas/Ventnor Villas one way systems and see if that makes things safer. Time for drivers and cyclists to separate their actions more safely before they arrive at the junction in question. What can they see coming out of Clarendon Villas (behind parked buses)? Nothing.

Has highways considered ANY of this? Why do I doubt it.

How would a roundabout influence the high level of activity between Eaton Villas and Blatchington Road ?!

The fact there is a consultation means they have decided to do it and nothing any of us says will make a ha'peth of difference. This is awful.

I'm devastated. BHCC highways strikes again. They never get it right. NEVER.
This is absolutely insane! There isn't the space for a roundabout!!!!! The problem here is the treatment of Clarendon Villas as a rat-run over Goldstone Villas at a point where parked buses obscure the view, pedestrians rush about running for the buses and there is a taxi rank opposite the parked buses. Is the bus stop in the best place? Has that been considered? Is the taxi rank in the best place? How about the river of traffic that S-bends at speed from the corner of Ventnor villas up to and into Goldstone Villas? By the time they have executed that move, they are almost at the junction in question. How many of the accidents have involved vehicles or bicycles who arrive at this junction after this manoeuvre? Swap the Hova Villas/Ventnor Villas one way systems and see if that makes things safer. Time for drivers and cyclists to separate their actions more safely before they arrive at the junction in question. What can they see coming out of Clarendon Villas (behind parked buses)? Nothing. Has highways considered ANY of this? Why do I doubt it. How would a roundabout influence the high level of activity between Eaton Villas and Blatchington Road ?! The fact there is a consultation means they have decided to do it and nothing any of us says will make a ha'peth of difference. This is awful. I'm devastated. BHCC highways strikes again. They never get it right. NEVER. Valerie Paynter

9:13am Tue 4 Dec 12

Hove Actually says...

Tomorrow council staff will be at Hove Station between 4pm and 7pm to give rail passengers a chance to give their views

And when will the ROAD users get to meet with the council staff?
Tomorrow council staff will be at Hove Station between 4pm and 7pm to give rail passengers a chance to give their views And when will the ROAD users get to meet with the council staff? Hove Actually

9:19am Tue 4 Dec 12

Indigatio says...

Not sure whether it would work or not.
The main problem I have with the junction is the buses parked long term in the bus stop when trying to come out of Clarendon Villas into Goldstone Villas.
One postive efect could be that it would slow traffic down at the junction particularly that traveling south on Goldstone Villas.
Not sure whether it would work or not. The main problem I have with the junction is the buses parked long term in the bus stop when trying to come out of Clarendon Villas into Goldstone Villas. One postive efect could be that it would slow traffic down at the junction particularly that traveling south on Goldstone Villas. Indigatio

9:25am Tue 4 Dec 12

Charismatic Andrew says...

Valerie Paynter wrote:
This is absolutely insane! There isn't the space for a roundabout!!!!!

The problem here is the treatment of Clarendon Villas as a rat-run over Goldstone Villas at a point where parked buses obscure the view, pedestrians rush about running for the buses and there is a taxi rank opposite the parked buses.

Is the bus stop in the best place? Has that been considered? Is the taxi rank in the best place?

How about the river of traffic that S-bends at speed from the corner of Ventnor villas up to and into Goldstone Villas? By the time they have executed that move, they are almost at the junction in question. How many of the accidents have involved vehicles or bicycles who arrive at this junction after this manoeuvre?

Swap the Hova Villas/Ventnor Villas one way systems and see if that makes things safer. Time for drivers and cyclists to separate their actions more safely before they arrive at the junction in question. What can they see coming out of Clarendon Villas (behind parked buses)? Nothing.

Has highways considered ANY of this? Why do I doubt it.

How would a roundabout influence the high level of activity between Eaton Villas and Blatchington Road ?!

The fact there is a consultation means they have decided to do it and nothing any of us says will make a ha'peth of difference. This is awful.

I'm devastated. BHCC highways strikes again. They never get it right. NEVER.
That's harsh. I distinctly recall BHCC Highways getting something right in 2006.
[quote][p][bold]Valerie Paynter[/bold] wrote: This is absolutely insane! There isn't the space for a roundabout!!!!! The problem here is the treatment of Clarendon Villas as a rat-run over Goldstone Villas at a point where parked buses obscure the view, pedestrians rush about running for the buses and there is a taxi rank opposite the parked buses. Is the bus stop in the best place? Has that been considered? Is the taxi rank in the best place? How about the river of traffic that S-bends at speed from the corner of Ventnor villas up to and into Goldstone Villas? By the time they have executed that move, they are almost at the junction in question. How many of the accidents have involved vehicles or bicycles who arrive at this junction after this manoeuvre? Swap the Hova Villas/Ventnor Villas one way systems and see if that makes things safer. Time for drivers and cyclists to separate their actions more safely before they arrive at the junction in question. What can they see coming out of Clarendon Villas (behind parked buses)? Nothing. Has highways considered ANY of this? Why do I doubt it. How would a roundabout influence the high level of activity between Eaton Villas and Blatchington Road ?! The fact there is a consultation means they have decided to do it and nothing any of us says will make a ha'peth of difference. This is awful. I'm devastated. BHCC highways strikes again. They never get it right. NEVER.[/p][/quote]That's harsh. I distinctly recall BHCC Highways getting something right in 2006. Charismatic Andrew

9:32am Tue 4 Dec 12

Dealing with idiots says...

Vote of no confidence in the Green administration e-petition now live on the Brighton and Hove City Council website. If you love your city and want to end the waste and destruction of the Green administration, please sign the petition. We need 1250 signatures to get this discussed in full council. Surely there are 1250 angry people in the city who want to make a difference? Save Our City.
http://present.brigh
ton-hove.gov.uk/mgEP
etitionDisplay.aspx?
ID=360&RPID=6033530&
HPID=6033530
Vote of no confidence in the Green administration e-petition now live on the Brighton and Hove City Council website. If you love your city and want to end the waste and destruction of the Green administration, please sign the petition. We need 1250 signatures to get this discussed in full council. Surely there are 1250 angry people in the city who want to make a difference? Save Our City. http://present.brigh ton-hove.gov.uk/mgEP etitionDisplay.aspx? ID=360&RPID=6033530& HPID=6033530 Dealing with idiots

10:09am Tue 4 Dec 12

StyleCop says...

Dealing with idiots wrote:
Vote of no confidence in the Green administration e-petition now live on the Brighton and Hove City Council website. If you love your city and want to end the waste and destruction of the Green administration, please sign the petition. We need 1250 signatures to get this discussed in full council. Surely there are 1250 angry people in the city who want to make a difference? Save Our City. http://present.brigh ton-hove.gov.uk/mgEP etitionDisplay.aspx? ID=360&RPID=6033
530& HPID=6033530
67 and rising...
[quote][p][bold]Dealing with idiots[/bold] wrote: Vote of no confidence in the Green administration e-petition now live on the Brighton and Hove City Council website. If you love your city and want to end the waste and destruction of the Green administration, please sign the petition. We need 1250 signatures to get this discussed in full council. Surely there are 1250 angry people in the city who want to make a difference? Save Our City. http://present.brigh ton-hove.gov.uk/mgEP etitionDisplay.aspx? ID=360&RPID=6033 530& HPID=6033530[/p][/quote]67 and rising... StyleCop

10:35am Tue 4 Dec 12

Camel54 says...

StyleCop

How about signing my petition to remove the vote from Daily Mail readers?
StyleCop How about signing my petition to remove the vote from Daily Mail readers? Camel54

10:35am Tue 4 Dec 12

Camel54 says...

StyleCop

How about signing my petition to remove the vote from Daily Mail readers?
StyleCop How about signing my petition to remove the vote from Daily Mail readers? Camel54

11:05am Tue 4 Dec 12

Dealing with idiots says...

If you think you can get the votes then do it no style.
If you think you can get the votes then do it no style. Dealing with idiots

11:49am Tue 4 Dec 12

Hovite says...

Valerie, why are you devastated by a roundabout plan? And it’s certainly not insane.

I like roundabouts, the mini roundabout works well at Denmark Villas - Cromwell Road, I’ve never had a problem with it and it is always quite helpful and ciivilised

In fact it should be roundabouts all the way down Sackville Road i.e. Portland Road Clarendon Villas, Blatchington Road, New Church Road Church Road and Hove Street , Kingsway.

Take away all the traffic lights and put pedestrian crossings before and after the roundabouts to break the traffic.

Traffic lights encourage drivers to use rat runs whilst roundabouts don’t! They control themselves with a steady calm flow.

Devastation and insanity are surely the wrong words to use on this plan and it really doesn’t do these words justice on such a trivial matter.

These words you use are an insult to people who have real devastation and insanity in their lives.
Valerie, why are you devastated by a roundabout plan? And it’s certainly not insane. I like roundabouts, the mini roundabout works well at Denmark Villas - Cromwell Road, I’ve never had a problem with it and it is always quite helpful and ciivilised In fact it should be roundabouts all the way down Sackville Road i.e. Portland Road Clarendon Villas, Blatchington Road, New Church Road Church Road and Hove Street , Kingsway. Take away all the traffic lights and put pedestrian crossings before and after the roundabouts to break the traffic. Traffic lights encourage drivers to use rat runs whilst roundabouts don’t! They control themselves with a steady calm flow. Devastation and insanity are surely the wrong words to use on this plan and it really doesn’t do these words justice on such a trivial matter. These words you use are an insult to people who have real devastation and insanity in their lives. Hovite

11:53am Tue 4 Dec 12

bug eye says...

Rather than implement more cuckoo ideas why not smarten up the area, new paving, road surface and planting etc. and ideas already suggested. make it attractive so people do not want to rush past. Honestly the highways have nothing better to do than make up hair brain schemes to spend the parking revenue on. Look at the mess now on the seafront 4 sets of lights within 100 yards causing chaos as they do not phase properly outside regency sq car park. The administration may change but the jobsworth in the highways, planning and others do not. 160 redundancies needed I know where i would start.
Rather than implement more cuckoo ideas why not smarten up the area, new paving, road surface and planting etc. and ideas already suggested. make it attractive so people do not want to rush past. Honestly the highways have nothing better to do than make up hair brain schemes to spend the parking revenue on. Look at the mess now on the seafront 4 sets of lights within 100 yards causing chaos as they do not phase properly outside regency sq car park. The administration may change but the jobsworth in the highways, planning and others do not. 160 redundancies needed I know where i would start. bug eye

12:02pm Tue 4 Dec 12

Fight_Back says...

This will be the same B&H Highways Department that came up with the following :

> The OSR cycle lane that now causes huge tailbacks and congestion

> The changes at the Sackville Road and OSR junction that now causes tailbacks to the Co-Op while before there were hardly any

> That created the almost unused cycle lanes in The Drive

> That has closed off one of the up lanes on Mill Hill for no sensible reason

> That has reduce King George 6th Avenue to 40mph up meaning considerably more pollution for local residents

Yes, they really are the sharpest tools in the box aren't they !!!!!
This will be the same B&H Highways Department that came up with the following : > The OSR cycle lane that now causes huge tailbacks and congestion > The changes at the Sackville Road and OSR junction that now causes tailbacks to the Co-Op while before there were hardly any > That created the almost unused cycle lanes in The Drive > That has closed off one of the up lanes on Mill Hill for no sensible reason > That has reduce King George 6th Avenue to 40mph up meaning considerably more pollution for local residents Yes, they really are the sharpest tools in the box aren't they !!!!! Fight_Back

12:06pm Tue 4 Dec 12

berkorich says...

Hovite wrote:
Valerie, why are you devastated by a roundabout plan? And it’s certainly not insane.

I like roundabouts, the mini roundabout works well at Denmark Villas - Cromwell Road, I’ve never had a problem with it and it is always quite helpful and ciivilised

In fact it should be roundabouts all the way down Sackville Road i.e. Portland Road Clarendon Villas, Blatchington Road, New Church Road Church Road and Hove Street , Kingsway.

Take away all the traffic lights and put pedestrian crossings before and after the roundabouts to break the traffic.

Traffic lights encourage drivers to use rat runs whilst roundabouts don’t! They control themselves with a steady calm flow.

Devastation and insanity are surely the wrong words to use on this plan and it really doesn’t do these words justice on such a trivial matter.

These words you use are an insult to people who have real devastation and insanity in their lives.
Hovite says...
"Take away all the traffic lights and put pedestrian crossings before and after the roundabouts to break the traffic."

Noooo! Just when drivers are having to devote attention to a roundabout ahead, looking right for traffic with right-of-way, stick a load of pedestrians in the middle of the road where the driver won't be looking. Pedestrian crossings need to be way away from where drivers attention is taken on other manoeuvres. I never understand why planners put pedestrians at risk like this.
[quote][p][bold]Hovite[/bold] wrote: Valerie, why are you devastated by a roundabout plan? And it’s certainly not insane. I like roundabouts, the mini roundabout works well at Denmark Villas - Cromwell Road, I’ve never had a problem with it and it is always quite helpful and ciivilised In fact it should be roundabouts all the way down Sackville Road i.e. Portland Road Clarendon Villas, Blatchington Road, New Church Road Church Road and Hove Street , Kingsway. Take away all the traffic lights and put pedestrian crossings before and after the roundabouts to break the traffic. Traffic lights encourage drivers to use rat runs whilst roundabouts don’t! They control themselves with a steady calm flow. Devastation and insanity are surely the wrong words to use on this plan and it really doesn’t do these words justice on such a trivial matter. These words you use are an insult to people who have real devastation and insanity in their lives.[/p][/quote]Hovite says... "Take away all the traffic lights and put pedestrian crossings before and after the roundabouts to break the traffic." Noooo! Just when drivers are having to devote attention to a roundabout ahead, looking right for traffic with right-of-way, stick a load of pedestrians in the middle of the road where the driver won't be looking. Pedestrian crossings need to be way away from where drivers attention is taken on other manoeuvres. I never understand why planners put pedestrians at risk like this. berkorich

12:37pm Tue 4 Dec 12

Hovite says...

It works well at the seven dials. As long as the pedestrian crossing isn't directly on the roundabout it would be fine.

In any case as a driver you don't devote your attention to one thing when you are driving, your brain calculates many scenarios in traffic and you drive accordingly to suit the conditions.

If you haven't got time to take it all in you are driving too fast anyway.
It works well at the seven dials. As long as the pedestrian crossing isn't directly on the roundabout it would be fine. In any case as a driver you don't devote your attention to one thing when you are driving, your brain calculates many scenarios in traffic and you drive accordingly to suit the conditions. If you haven't got time to take it all in you are driving too fast anyway. Hovite

1:14pm Tue 4 Dec 12

Bob_The_Ferret says...

A roundabout could work here, as long as there is enough room for vehicles to turn.

One of the biggest problems at this junction is the obscured view south, due to the buses constantly waiting here.

One simpler solution could be to exchange the priorities at the junction, making East-West the priority route
A roundabout could work here, as long as there is enough room for vehicles to turn. One of the biggest problems at this junction is the obscured view south, due to the buses constantly waiting here. One simpler solution could be to exchange the priorities at the junction, making East-West the priority route Bob_The_Ferret

1:31pm Tue 4 Dec 12

Hovite says...

Yep, it could be as simple as that Bob and it's good to think outside the box for an alternative, though it could make it tricky if you are a pedestrian.

A roundabout is pretty simple, all you need is two people with some white paint and a legnth of rope.
Yep, it could be as simple as that Bob and it's good to think outside the box for an alternative, though it could make it tricky if you are a pedestrian. A roundabout is pretty simple, all you need is two people with some white paint and a legnth of rope. Hovite

4:06pm Tue 4 Dec 12

salty_pete says...

Apart from Fight_Back leaving the A259 off his list of BHCC traffic screw ups. I'm just amazed that a roundabout is even being considered for this junction. I always thought that wherever the traffic dept. percieved a problem (real or imaginary) their first knee jerk reaction is to stick in a set of traffic lights. If the vast majority of junctions in B&H had roundabouts just think of the HUGE SAVINGS that could be made on not maintaining them. Now there's a budget saving idea that I'll bet will never see the light of day.
Apart from Fight_Back leaving the A259 off his list of BHCC traffic screw ups. I'm just amazed that a roundabout is even being considered for this junction. I always thought that wherever the traffic dept. percieved a problem (real or imaginary) their first knee jerk reaction is to stick in a set of traffic lights. If the vast majority of junctions in B&H had roundabouts just think of the HUGE SAVINGS that could be made on not maintaining them. Now there's a budget saving idea that I'll bet will never see the light of day. salty_pete

4:52pm Tue 4 Dec 12

Fairfax Sakes says...

I think a roundabout is a good idea actually. Seperate kerbed cycle lanes woudl also surely be a step int the right direction. This could be provided by removing one side of the car parking area-there are too many cars and they need to be dramatically discouraged.
I think a roundabout is a good idea actually. Seperate kerbed cycle lanes woudl also surely be a step int the right direction. This could be provided by removing one side of the car parking area-there are too many cars and they need to be dramatically discouraged. Fairfax Sakes

6:45pm Tue 4 Dec 12

kkj says...

I've been using that junction pretty frequently for the past dozen or so years and have never considered it dangerous.

The report states that 8 people have been injured in the last three years; how does that compare with the previous three years and the three years before that?

Presumably, the junction itself hasn't got worse in that time, which means it must be down to the human factor. This being the case, the council is wasting its (our) money,as the human being, being infinitely adaptable, will find newer and different ways to injure themselves. See the Old Steine/Castle Square junction for details.
I've been using that junction pretty frequently for the past dozen or so years and have never considered it dangerous. The report states that 8 people have been injured in the last three years; how does that compare with the previous three years and the three years before that? Presumably, the junction itself hasn't got worse in that time, which means it must be down to the human factor. This being the case, the council is wasting its (our) money,as the human being, being infinitely adaptable, will find newer and different ways to injure themselves. See the Old Steine/Castle Square junction for details. kkj

9:22pm Tue 4 Dec 12

grev02 says...

Anyone who has ever cycled or driven out of Clarendon Villas onto Goldstone Villas can tell you exactly what the problem is - all you can see when you look right is a wall of parked buses totally blocking your view of oncoming traffic until the traffic's right on top of you.
Anyone who has ever cycled or driven out of Clarendon Villas onto Goldstone Villas can tell you exactly what the problem is - all you can see when you look right is a wall of parked buses totally blocking your view of oncoming traffic until the traffic's right on top of you. grev02

3:33pm Wed 5 Dec 12

Hovelady says...

I think a roundabout could work there..

But the bus stop is the most problematic part of that junction - I've seen several pedestrians almost knocked down by cars racing round the parked buses into Clarendon Villas and have had a few near misses myself.

With buses stopped there, pedestrians waiting to cross can't see if any cars are turning left and motorists can't see anyone waiting at the crossing....would help though if drivers slowed down a bit - I'm always amazed at the speed some people take that blind left turn!
I think a roundabout could work there.. But the bus stop is the most problematic part of that junction - I've seen several pedestrians almost knocked down by cars racing round the parked buses into Clarendon Villas and have had a few near misses myself. With buses stopped there, pedestrians waiting to cross can't see if any cars are turning left and motorists can't see anyone waiting at the crossing....would help though if drivers slowed down a bit - I'm always amazed at the speed some people take that blind left turn! Hovelady

12:18pm Thu 6 Dec 12

Hovite says...

Agree Hovelady,

I don't know why Valerie Paynter, from SaveHove thinks this is insane and is devastated by it.
Agree Hovelady, I don't know why Valerie Paynter, from SaveHove thinks this is insane and is devastated by it. Hovite

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