New Brighton cycle lane takes turn for the better (From The Argus)

russellsnr2 says...
12:45pm Thu 10 Jan 13

Hi, Just curious, as motorized vehicles have to pay ROAD tax every year to be able to drive on the roads when will the cyclists be contributing towards these costs of cycle lanes as many of them encroach onto the side of the road that has been paid by?

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Crystal Ball says...
12:48pm Thu 10 Jan 13

This will be just as successful as the Old Shoreham Road debacle.

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gheese77 says...
12:51pm Thu 10 Jan 13

russellsnr2 wrote:
Hi, Just curious, as motorized vehicles have to pay ROAD tax every year to be able to drive on the roads when will the cyclists be contributing towards these costs of cycle lanes as many of them encroach onto the side of the road that has been paid by?

What about a pedestrian tax then to cover the cost of pavements. Pedestrians should have to wear a tax disc on their head and a numberplat hung around their neck

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gheese77 says...
12:53pm Thu 10 Jan 13

Crystal Ball wrote:
This will be just as successful as the Old Shoreham Road debacle.

Why is that a debacle - I dare cycle down the old shoreham road now its not like a 2 lane racetrack. The only problem with that cycle lane is it doesent carry on to the portslade boundary

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Think about it says...
12:53pm Thu 10 Jan 13

russellsnr2 wrote:
Hi, Just curious, as motorized vehicles have to pay ROAD tax every year to be able to drive on the roads when will the cyclists be contributing towards these costs of cycle lanes as many of them encroach onto the side of the road that has been paid by?

It's not a ROAD tax, it's an EMMISSONS tax, which is why zero emission CARS pay no EMISSIONS tax the same as bicycles.

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Think about it says...
12:55pm Thu 10 Jan 13

Apologies for the bad spelling!

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Bob_The_Ferret says...
1:09pm Thu 10 Jan 13

Little regard has been given to the safety of alighting bus passengers who will now have to avoid the stream of cyclists the moment they step off the bus.

Also, when the general traffic lane is snarled up (which will be far more frequently once scheme has reduced the capacity by 50%) buses will not be able to overtake each over when one stops for ages as one of the built out stops.

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Andy R says...
1:14pm Thu 10 Jan 13

gheese77 wrote:

russellsnr2 wrote: Hi, Just curious, as motorized vehicles have to pay ROAD tax every year to be able to drive on the roads when will the cyclists be contributing towards these costs of cycle lanes as many of them encroach onto the side of the road that has been paid by?
What about a pedestrian tax then to cover the cost of pavements. Pedestrians should have to wear a tax disc on their head and a numberplat hung around their neck

If you're still paying "road tax" you been had mate!

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Number Six says...
1:16pm Thu 10 Jan 13

Think about it wrote:

russellsnr2 wrote:
Hi, Just curious, as motorized vehicles have to pay ROAD tax every year to be able to drive on the roads when will the cyclists be contributing towards these costs of cycle lanes as many of them encroach onto the side of the road that has been paid by?
It's not a ROAD tax, it's an EMMISSONS tax, which is why zero emission CARS pay no EMISSIONS tax the same as bicycles.

No it isn't. It is vehicle excise duty that has been based on emissions since around 2005 (I think). Before then it was based on engine cc. The government can change this basis any time they want at the next budget, and if zero emission cars take off it's very possible that that will start taxing them

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leedsnowfan says...
1:19pm Thu 10 Jan 13

this whole scheme aint gonna work....take the delays on Lewes Road today esp during the rush hour......maybe they should introduce it at peak times only.......imagine what summer weekends are going to be like when most will be using the cars......yawn!

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Dealing with idiots says...
1:22pm Thu 10 Jan 13

Thankfully another visible monument to the stupidity and vanity of Kitcat and his fellow champagne marxists.

The vehicles will be slower, taking longer for each journey, burning more fuel and pumping more toxins into the air. Many of us cannot run a business using a bus. Some cannot turn up at work wet and sweaty at the beginning of the day as there are no facilities or time to shower.

Help us get these nutters out and sign the Vote of No Confidence petition.

http://present.brigh
ton-hove.gov.uk/mgEP
etitionDisplay.aspx?
ID=360

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Indigatio says...
1:24pm Thu 10 Jan 13

Its used to be called a Road Fund Licence and is still commonly refered to as a RFL, however, it is "Car Tax" and as we all know is just another revenue stream which goes into the Governmental pot and get used for all sorts of things.
How about a "Cycle Tax"? Would it work, probably not!
As for these stupid cycle schemes. I don;t like any of them, and I'm a cyclist (every day too and from work) - and by the way, I also don't jump red lights. I wear appropriate clothing and a helmet (wouldn't be without one after one saved my life 4 years ago) and have a full and proper set of lights.

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panda_electrical says...
1:25pm Thu 10 Jan 13

Think about it wrote:

russellsnr2 wrote:
Hi, Just curious, as motorized vehicles have to pay ROAD tax every year to be able to drive on the roads when will the cyclists be contributing towards these costs of cycle lanes as many of them encroach onto the side of the road that has been paid by?
It's not a ROAD tax, it's an EMMISSONS tax, which is why zero emission CARS pay no EMISSIONS tax the same as bicycles.

Assuming you are referring to VED (Vehicle Excise Duty) this is only based on emissions for vehicles registered after 2001.
From 1973 to 2001 the rates are based on engine size, a lower rate for engines up to 1549cc and a higher rate for larger engines.
Vehicles registered before 1972 ( and I have a couple) are classed as historic and while having the largest emissions (probably) are zero rated for VED.

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Brightonscouse2 says...
1:35pm Thu 10 Jan 13

Dealing with idiots wrote:
Thankfully another visible monument to the stupidity and vanity of Kitcat and his fellow champagne marxists.

The vehicles will be slower, taking longer for each journey, burning more fuel and pumping more toxins into the air. Many of us cannot run a business using a bus. Some cannot turn up at work wet and sweaty at the beginning of the day as there are no facilities or time to shower.

Help us get these nutters out and sign the Vote of No Confidence petition.

http://present.brigh

ton-hove.gov.uk/mgEP

etitionDisplay.aspx?

ID=360

Are you STILL trying to get people to sign your petition? It's not really going too well is it?

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Brightonscouse2 says...
1:38pm Thu 10 Jan 13

russellsnr2 wrote:
Hi, Just curious, as motorized vehicles have to pay ROAD tax every year to be able to drive on the roads when will the cyclists be contributing towards these costs of cycle lanes as many of them encroach onto the side of the road that has been paid by?

Russell

I'll be round to collect your ROAD tax on the 2nd of every month. Cash only please, no cheques or cards.

Kind regards.

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BornInBrighton1968 says...
1:57pm Thu 10 Jan 13

Dealing with idiots wrote:
Thankfully another visible monument to the stupidity and vanity of Kitcat and his fellow champagne marxists.

The vehicles will be slower, taking longer for each journey, burning more fuel and pumping more toxins into the air. Many of us cannot run a business using a bus. Some cannot turn up at work wet and sweaty at the beginning of the day as there are no facilities or time to shower.

Help us get these nutters out and sign the Vote of No Confidence petition.

http://present.brigh

ton-hove.gov.uk/mgEP

etitionDisplay.aspx?

ID=360

Now is the time for all Brighton men and women of good charachter to stand together to rid Brighton of the incompetent Green Party and '5 Homes' Lucas.

If we all work together, we could kick the creepy, Marxist Green Party out of office in a matter of months; it could really happen!

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PaulOckenden says...
2:02pm Thu 10 Jan 13

The road is now down to one lane (for the works), and backing up into Coldean Lane during the rush hour.

It's going to be like this all the time once this disaster of a scheme is complete.

Lessons should have been leaned from the gas repair a few months ago. I emailed the council's scheme representative about this but my concerns were dismissed out of hand. I got the impression that the person in charge hadn't even seen the mess that the Lewes Road became when reduced to one lane plus bus/cycle lane.

I fear our lives are being ruined by a bunch of Muppets.

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Fercri Sakes says...
2:16pm Thu 10 Jan 13

russellsnr2 wrote:
Hi, Just curious, as motorized vehicles have to pay ROAD tax every year to be able to drive on the roads when will the cyclists be contributing towards these costs of cycle lanes as many of them encroach onto the side of the road that has been paid by?

Here we go again:

Cyclists pay more per mile travelled than car drivers for the upkeep of the roads.

There is no such thing as road tax. It's an emissions tax. Bikes have no emissions therefore pay no tax.

Maybe you should invent a bicycle that causes lots of pollution as that's the only way you'll win your argument.

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Andy R says...
2:18pm Thu 10 Jan 13

BornInBrighton1968 wrote:

Dealing with idiots wrote: Thankfully another visible monument to the stupidity and vanity of Kitcat and his fellow champagne marxists. The vehicles will be slower, taking longer for each journey, burning more fuel and pumping more toxins into the air. Many of us cannot run a business using a bus. Some cannot turn up at work wet and sweaty at the beginning of the day as there are no facilities or time to shower. Help us get these nutters out and sign the Vote of No Confidence petition. http://present.brigh ton-hove.gov.uk/mgEP etitionDisplay.aspx? ID=360
Now is the time for all Brighton men and women of good charachter to stand together to rid Brighton of the incompetent Green Party and '5 Homes' Lucas. If we all work together, we could kick the creepy, Marxist Green Party out of office in a matter of months; it could really happen!

No it couldn't.....

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BornInBrighton1968 says...
2:22pm Thu 10 Jan 13

Andy R wrote:

BornInBrighton1968 wrote:

Dealing with idiots wrote: Thankfully another visible monument to the stupidity and vanity of Kitcat and his fellow champagne marxists. The vehicles will be slower, taking longer for each journey, burning more fuel and pumping more toxins into the air. Many of us cannot run a business using a bus. Some cannot turn up at work wet and sweaty at the beginning of the day as there are no facilities or time to shower. Help us get these nutters out and sign the Vote of No Confidence petition. http://present.brigh ton-hove.gov.uk/mgEP etitionDisplay.aspx? ID=360
Now is the time for all Brighton men and women of good charachter to stand together to rid Brighton of the incompetent Green Party and '5 Homes' Lucas. If we all work together, we could kick the creepy, Marxist Green Party out of office in a matter of months; it could really happen!
No it couldn't.....

But it could; it really could!

Let us put up with no more nonsense from Caroline 'PhD in wimmins studies' and her incompetent Marxist Green loons

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Fercri Sakes says...
2:23pm Thu 10 Jan 13

BornInBrighton1968 wrote:

Dealing with idiots wrote:
Thankfully another visible monument to the stupidity and vanity of Kitcat and his fellow champagne marxists.

The vehicles will be slower, taking longer for each journey, burning more fuel and pumping more toxins into the air. Many of us cannot run a business using a bus. Some cannot turn up at work wet and sweaty at the beginning of the day as there are no facilities or time to shower.

Help us get these nutters out and sign the Vote of No Confidence petition.

http://present.brigh

ton-hove.gov.uk/mgEP

etitionDisplay.aspx?

ID=360
Now is the time for all Brighton men and women of good charachter to stand together to rid Brighton of the incompetent Green Party and '5 Homes' Lucas.

If we all work together, we could kick the creepy, Marxist Green Party out of office in a matter of months; it could really happen!

Give me some real reasons to sign it and I will. All you ever say is just rhetoric. It's no use using words like 'nutters', 'creepy' or 'Marxist' when there is no evidence of this. In fact compared to previous administrations they seem quite sensible and dare I say it, normal.

Surely you should turn your anger towards the people currently in charge at Westminster as they are doing far more damage to the town (and country) than whoever is in control of the council.

Have you seen a psychologist about your misplaced anger issues?

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RickH says...
2:34pm Thu 10 Jan 13

BornInBrighton1968 wrote:

Andy R wrote:
BornInBrighton1968 wrote:
Dealing with idiots wrote: Thankfully another visible monument to the stupidity and vanity of Kitcat and his fellow champagne marxists. The vehicles will be slower, taking longer for each journey, burning more fuel and pumping more toxins into the air. Many of us cannot run a business using a bus. Some cannot turn up at work wet and sweaty at the beginning of the day as there are no facilities or time to shower. Help us get these nutters out and sign the Vote of No Confidence petition. http://present.brigh ton-hove.gov.uk/mgEP etitionDisplay.aspx? ID=360
Now is the time for all Brighton men and women of good charachter to stand together to rid Brighton of the incompetent Green Party and '5 Homes' Lucas. If we all work together, we could kick the creepy, Marxist Green Party out of office in a matter of months; it could really happen!
No it couldn't.....
But it could; it really could! Let us put up with no more nonsense from Caroline 'PhD in wimmins studies' and her incompetent Marxist Green loons

And you've got a PhD in what?

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RickH says...
2:36pm Thu 10 Jan 13

Bob_The_Ferret wrote:
Little regard has been given to the safety of alighting bus passengers who will now have to avoid the stream of cyclists the moment they step off the bus. Also, when the general traffic lane is snarled up (which will be far more frequently once scheme has reduced the capacity by 50%) buses will not be able to overtake each over when one stops for ages as one of the built out stops.

A stream of cyclists? You mean all those poor bus passengers are unable to see, hear or realise the possibility of something else on or near the pavement with them!

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Fercri Sakes says...
2:40pm Thu 10 Jan 13

BornInBrighton1968 wrote:

Andy R wrote:

BornInBrighton1968 wrote:

Dealing with idiots wrote: Thankfully another visible monument to the stupidity and vanity of Kitcat and his fellow champagne marxists. The vehicles will be slower, taking longer for each journey, burning more fuel and pumping more toxins into the air. Many of us cannot run a business using a bus. Some cannot turn up at work wet and sweaty at the beginning of the day as there are no facilities or time to shower. Help us get these nutters out and sign the Vote of No Confidence petition. http://present.brigh ton-hove.gov.uk/mgEP etitionDisplay.aspx? ID=360
Now is the time for all Brighton men and women of good charachter to stand together to rid Brighton of the incompetent Green Party and '5 Homes' Lucas. If we all work together, we could kick the creepy, Marxist Green Party out of office in a matter of months; it could really happen!
No it couldn't.....
But it could; it really could!

Let us put up with no more nonsense from Caroline 'PhD in wimmins studies' and her incompetent Marxist Green loons

As it's all getting a bit political here we should really start to bring some facts into the debate. Here's a quick comparison between the Hove MP Mike Weatherley and Brighton's Caroline Lucas from the theyworkforyou site:

Mike Weatherly (Tory):

Voted for replacing Trident.
Voted strongly for more EU integration.
Voted very strongly for university tuition fees.
Voted for raising England’s undergraduate tuition fee cap to £9,000 per year.
Voted very strongly for increasing the rate of VAT.

Caroline Lucas (Green):

Voted against replacing Trident.
Voted a mixture of for and against more EU integration.
Voted very strongly against university tuition fees.
Voted against raising England’s undergraduate tuition fee cap to £9,000 per year.
Voted strongly against greater autonomy for schools.
Voted very strongly against increasing the rate of VAT.

I can't quite see where the 'Marxism' label comes in, can you?

[quote][p][bold]BornInBrighton1968[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Andy R[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]BornInBrighton1968[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Dealing with idiots[/bold] wrote: Thankfully another visible monument to the stupidity and vanity of Kitcat and his fellow champagne marxists. The vehicles will be slower, taking longer for each journey, burning more fuel and pumping more toxins into the air. Many of us cannot run a business using a bus. Some cannot turn up at work wet and sweaty at the beginning of the day as there are no facilities or time to shower. Help us get these nutters out and sign the Vote of No Confidence petition. http://present.brigh ton-hove.gov.uk/mgEP etitionDisplay.aspx? ID=360[/p][/quote]Now is the time for all Brighton men and women of good charachter to stand together to rid Brighton of the incompetent Green Party and '5 Homes' Lucas. If we all work together, we could kick the creepy, Marxist Green Party out of office in a matter of months; it could really happen![/p][/quote]No it couldn't.....[/p][/quote]But it could; it really could! Let us put up with no more nonsense from Caroline 'PhD in wimmins studies' and her incompetent Marxist Green loons[/p][/quote]As it's all getting a bit political here we should really start to bring some facts into the debate. Here's a quick comparison between the Hove MP Mike Weatherley and Brighton's Caroline Lucas from the theyworkforyou site: Mike Weatherly (Tory): Voted for replacing Trident. Voted strongly for more EU integration. Voted very strongly for university tuition fees. Voted for raising England’s undergraduate tuition fee cap to £9,000 per year. Voted very strongly for increasing the rate of VAT. Caroline Lucas (Green): Voted against replacing Trident. Voted a mixture of for and against more EU integration. Voted very strongly against university tuition fees. Voted against raising England’s undergraduate tuition fee cap to £9,000 per year. Voted strongly against greater autonomy for schools. Voted very strongly against increasing the rate of VAT. I can't quite see where the 'Marxism' label comes in, can you? Fercri Sakes

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Quidsup says...
3:01pm Thu 10 Jan 13

Dealing with idiots wrote:
Thankfully another visible monument to the stupidity and vanity of Kitcat and his fellow champagne marxists. The vehicles will be slower, taking longer for each journey, burning more fuel and pumping more toxins into the air. Many of us cannot run a business using a bus. Some cannot turn up at work wet and sweaty at the beginning of the day as there are no facilities or time to shower. Help us get these nutters out and sign the Vote of No Confidence petition. http://present.brigh ton-hove.gov.uk/mgEP etitionDisplay.aspx? ID=360

I agree completely. I use this road daily to travel into work (as a side, was I consulted on the proposal - no...) and why they feel the need to spend millions on this cycle and bus lane project really does show the short sighted, blinkered anti-car approach to traffic matters that the Greens have. Previously, the traffic on the road, including the buses and cyclists flowed along quite freely. Now, and when the scheme is finished, massive queues of traffic will form on both sides. Stationary or slow moving traffic results in pollutants from the cars not being easily dispersed. The obvious result will be all those cyslist they want to use the fancy new lane will actually be exposed to more pollution. The Council have Co2 monitoring tubes on Lewes Road - the results are available on the Coucnils website. Watch the figure rise after completion... The Greens eagernss to attack cars users is actually going to be to the detriment of the cyclists that they champion. Oh, the irony. Their proposals for Middle, Ship, Prince Albert, Black Lion and East Street will have a similar affect - more traffic. Unbelievable...

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Bendy Bus God says...
3:41pm Thu 10 Jan 13

Heaven forbid they consult the people who use this road daily for an opinion! I can honestly say, in 2 years of driving 25's I have never been stuck in traffic going up Lewes Road and only in rush hour going down it. The bus lane is pointless, it won't encourage people to use the bus or cycle more. I feel so sorry for the people living along this corridor who will face an all day traffic jam, just to get from A to B, whether in a bus or car. Not to mention the surrounding roads where traffic will disperse to. Like somebody previously said, with the bus stops built out there will just be a long line of buses in rush hour. Won't bother me as I'm getting paid but I'm sure it will bother the passengers. Late running and delays mean cancelled journeys, turning the buses short therefore overall a less reliable service.

Just look at the delay's when it gets reduced to one lane, why doesn't the council look at this??!!

An ill conceived idea from start to finish from our hippy liberal council. No matter what the council do, for some people, the car will always be the better option.

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NickBtn says...
4:02pm Thu 10 Jan 13

This isn't really about building a cycle lane - there is already a cycle lane along this part of the Lewis Road along with 2 lanes for other traffic

The roadworks are about making a new dedicated 24/7 bus lane and leaving the cars, lorries (including the many recycling lorries), vans etc queuing and polluting in one lane while a few buses go past in their exclusive new lane.

As "Bendy Bus God" says that will lead to more congestion and there isn't really a problem for buses now. The problem has been shown during roadworks and is set to get worse

What will people do? Short term use other roads (friends already do this - moving to more residential roads), medium term an expensive reversal (or more likely partial based on time of day)

But the scheme has "overwhelming support" in the way the council creatively collects statistics!

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HJarrs says...
4:05pm Thu 10 Jan 13

NickBtn wrote:
This isn't really about building a cycle lane - there is already a cycle lane along this part of the Lewis Road along with 2 lanes for other traffic

The roadworks are about making a new dedicated 24/7 bus lane and leaving the cars, lorries (including the many recycling lorries), vans etc queuing and polluting in one lane while a few buses go past in their exclusive new lane.

As "Bendy Bus God" says that will lead to more congestion and there isn't really a problem for buses now. The problem has been shown during roadworks and is set to get worse

What will people do? Short term use other roads (friends already do this - moving to more residential roads), medium term an expensive reversal (or more likely partial based on time of day)

But the scheme has "overwhelming support" in the way the council creatively collects statistics!

The existing cycle lane is so poor as it heads out to Falmer that it was the a major contribution to the cause of the death of a young woman a couple of years ago as reported in the Argus.

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HJarrs says...
4:08pm Thu 10 Jan 13

Bendy Bus God wrote:
Heaven forbid they consult the people who use this road daily for an opinion! I can honestly say, in 2 years of driving 25's I have never been stuck in traffic going up Lewes Road and only in rush hour going down it. The bus lane is pointless, it won't encourage people to use the bus or cycle more. I feel so sorry for the people living along this corridor who will face an all day traffic jam, just to get from A to B, whether in a bus or car. Not to mention the surrounding roads where traffic will disperse to. Like somebody previously said, with the bus stops built out there will just be a long line of buses in rush hour. Won't bother me as I'm getting paid but I'm sure it will bother the passengers. Late running and delays mean cancelled journeys, turning the buses short therefore overall a less reliable service.

Just look at the delay's when it gets reduced to one lane, why doesn't the council look at this??!!

An ill conceived idea from start to finish from our hippy liberal council. No matter what the council do, for some people, the car will always be the better option.

But they did consult about it and a majority of those that responded wanted a scheme to go ahead and some changes were made in response to the consultation. You must have been asleep.

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HJarrs says...
4:13pm Thu 10 Jan 13

Dealing with idiots wrote:
Thankfully another visible monument to the stupidity and vanity of Kitcat and his fellow champagne marxists.

The vehicles will be slower, taking longer for each journey, burning more fuel and pumping more toxins into the air. Many of us cannot run a business using a bus. Some cannot turn up at work wet and sweaty at the beginning of the day as there are no facilities or time to shower.

Help us get these nutters out and sign the Vote of No Confidence petition.

http://present.brigh

ton-hove.gov.uk/mgEP

etitionDisplay.aspx?

ID=360

I am astonished that there are only 271 so far that have signed your petition. If a council were really in trouble you would get 5000+ signatures easily by now. It just goes to show how unpopular you Tories are, but you just don't seem to realise it.

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NickBtn says...
4:21pm Thu 10 Jan 13

HJarrs wrote:

NickBtn wrote:
This isn't really about building a cycle lane - there is already a cycle lane along this part of the Lewis Road along with 2 lanes for other traffic

The roadworks are about making a new dedicated 24/7 bus lane and leaving the cars, lorries (including the many recycling lorries), vans etc queuing and polluting in one lane while a few buses go past in their exclusive new lane.

As "Bendy Bus God" says that will lead to more congestion and there isn't really a problem for buses now. The problem has been shown during roadworks and is set to get worse

What will people do? Short term use other roads (friends already do this - moving to more residential roads), medium term an expensive reversal (or more likely partial based on time of day)

But the scheme has "overwhelming support" in the way the council creatively collects statistics!
The existing cycle lane is so poor as it heads out to Falmer that it was the a major contribution to the cause of the death of a young woman a couple of years ago as reported in the Argus.

Yes. I am not saying that the cycle lane can't be improved. It can and it should. Particularly around the gyratory which I find vary scary to cycle around (and don't enjoy driving around either!). This part hasn't yet been solved, despite building work starting elsewhere

However the improvements to cycle lanes can be done without creating a dedicated bus lane. This just creates more tension between different users and will not make cycling more pleasant among the queuing polluting traffic

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HJarrs says...
4:22pm Thu 10 Jan 13

I fully expect the Argus to make merry over the next few months, stories of traffic jams, queues stretching back to Mars etc. There will be traffic jams, during construction, the road is being reduced in capacity significantly for a while. Incredibly, some people will find their journies no longer so necessary and I expect the effect on business overall across the city to be diddly-squat as it has been with all the parking charge increases.

The expectation is that some people will find some alternative routes and over time there will be a shift to bus and bike, but this takes time. Overall, I don't think that there will be much change for the car driver in two years time.

I am really looking forward to the "I haven't seen a cyclist use it yet" stories in just over a years time. I should be an Argus journo, I could write most of the next year's stories now!

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NickBtn says...
4:25pm Thu 10 Jan 13

HJarrs wrote:

Bendy Bus God wrote:
Heaven forbid they consult the people who use this road daily for an opinion! I can honestly say, in 2 years of driving 25's I have never been stuck in traffic going up Lewes Road and only in rush hour going down it. The bus lane is pointless, it won't encourage people to use the bus or cycle more. I feel so sorry for the people living along this corridor who will face an all day traffic jam, just to get from A to B, whether in a bus or car. Not to mention the surrounding roads where traffic will disperse to. Like somebody previously said, with the bus stops built out there will just be a long line of buses in rush hour. Won't bother me as I'm getting paid but I'm sure it will bother the passengers. Late running and delays mean cancelled journeys, turning the buses short therefore overall a less reliable service.

Just look at the delay's when it gets reduced to one lane, why doesn't the council look at this??!!

An ill conceived idea from start to finish from our hippy liberal council. No matter what the council do, for some people, the car will always be the better option.
But they did consult about it and a majority of those that responded wanted a scheme to go ahead and some changes were made in response to the consultation. You must have been asleep.

The consultation was very limited. Where were the signs on the road encouraging regular users to contribute? How were the people on Ditchling Road, Bear Road and others whose roads are now being used as rat runs included. They weren't. So I don't think Bendy Bus God was asleep, just a victim of the ineffective consultation process (where nearly 2000 signatures for 7dials count as just one opposing view!)

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Dealing with idiots says...
4:30pm Thu 10 Jan 13

Brightonscouse2 wrote:

Dealing with idiots wrote:
Thankfully another visible monument to the stupidity and vanity of Kitcat and his fellow champagne marxists.

The vehicles will be slower, taking longer for each journey, burning more fuel and pumping more toxins into the air. Many of us cannot run a business using a bus. Some cannot turn up at work wet and sweaty at the beginning of the day as there are no facilities or time to shower.

Help us get these nutters out and sign the Vote of No Confidence petition.

http://present.brigh

ton-hove.gov.uk/mgEP

etitionDisplay.aspx?

ID=360
Are you STILL trying to get people to sign your petition? It's not really going too well is it?

You are only seeing the online ones not the paper signatures councillor. .i.

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Brightonscouse2 says...
4:33pm Thu 10 Jan 13

Dealing with idiots wrote:

Brightonscouse2 wrote:

Dealing with idiots wrote:
Thankfully another visible monument to the stupidity and vanity of Kitcat and his fellow champagne marxists.

The vehicles will be slower, taking longer for each journey, burning more fuel and pumping more toxins into the air. Many of us cannot run a business using a bus. Some cannot turn up at work wet and sweaty at the beginning of the day as there are no facilities or time to shower.

Help us get these nutters out and sign the Vote of No Confidence petition.

http://present.brigh

ton-hove.gov.uk/mgEP

etitionDisplay.aspx?

ID=360
Are you STILL trying to get people to sign your petition? It's not really going too well is it?
You are only seeing the online ones not the paper signatures councillor. .i.

2/3 months ago you 'only ' needed 1,250 signatures. What happened?

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SGK2000 says...
4:56pm Thu 10 Jan 13

The promotional poster,. seen at some bus stops, shows a Utopian image of a bike , a bus and the 'all other vehicle' lane is empty. Talk about spin.

I also feel it will be a disaster and, as a bus user, I'll be stuck in a convoy of buses as they will not be able to overtake eachother.

As far as the consultation goes, it was widespread with roadshows and a mailing to over 30,000 properties as well as an online facility to make views known. It just a shame that so many didn't make those views known

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Bendy Bus God says...
5:23pm Thu 10 Jan 13

I spend 10 hours a day driving our beloved bendy buses up and down. The consultation was no where near wide enough! I don't live in the area concerned nor commute through it so I don't really care. I am simply giving an opinion based on my experiences of working on Lewes Road day in day out. I'm sure the business opposite B&Q are not happy at loosing all the parking and having CCTV enforcing the cycle lanes. How will load and unload?

Whether I do one trip a day and sit in traffic or do 8 I get paid the same. But from the point of view of passengers, I would rather sit in my car in traffic instead of a sweaty bus full of people coughing, sitting in the same queue. The whole point of this is to make alternative modes of transport attractive.

Accidents will always happen no matter what the council do. People will always make stupid decisions whether they are cyclists, drivers or people crossing roads.

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martyt says...
5:26pm Thu 10 Jan 13

russellsnr2 wrote:
Hi, Just curious, as motorized vehicles have to pay ROAD tax every year to be able to drive on the roads when will the cyclists be contributing towards these costs of cycle lanes as many of them encroach onto the side of the road that has been paid by?

what about making they also need some sort of licence and insurance ,and been held to use the rules of the road like most other road users ,and some form of mot to allow them on the roads

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martyt says...
5:30pm Thu 10 Jan 13

Think about it wrote:

russellsnr2 wrote:
Hi, Just curious, as motorized vehicles have to pay ROAD tax every year to be able to drive on the roads when will the cyclists be contributing towards these costs of cycle lanes as many of them encroach onto the side of the road that has been paid by?
It's not a ROAD tax, it's an EMMISSONS tax, which is why zero emission CARS pay no EMISSIONS tax the same as bicycles.

but they should have to carry some from of insurance and a mot to insure there safe on the roads

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Morpheus says...
6:08pm Thu 10 Jan 13

That's a good plan. When we get off the bus onto the safety of the pavement we will be knocked down by a cyclist.

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martyt says...
6:11pm Thu 10 Jan 13

Fercri Sakes wrote:

BornInBrighton1968 wrote:

Andy R wrote:

BornInBrighton1968 wrote:

Dealing with idiots wrote: Thankfully another visible monument to the stupidity and vanity of Kitcat and his fellow champagne marxists. The vehicles will be slower, taking longer for each journey, burning more fuel and pumping more toxins into the air. Many of us cannot run a business using a bus. Some cannot turn up at work wet and sweaty at the beginning of the day as there are no facilities or time to shower. Help us get these nutters out and sign the Vote of No Confidence petition. http://present.brigh ton-hove.gov.uk/mgEP etitionDisplay.aspx? ID=360
Now is the time for all Brighton men and women of good charachter to stand together to rid Brighton of the incompetent Green Party and '5 Homes' Lucas. If we all work together, we could kick the creepy, Marxist Green Party out of office in a matter of months; it could really happen!
No it couldn't.....
But it could; it really could!

Let us put up with no more nonsense from Caroline 'PhD in wimmins studies' and her incompetent Marxist Green loons
As it's all getting a bit political here we should really start to bring some facts into the debate. Here's a quick comparison between the Hove MP Mike Weatherley and Brighton's Caroline Lucas from the theyworkforyou site:

Mike Weatherly (Tory):

Voted for replacing Trident.
Voted strongly for more EU integration.
Voted very strongly for university tuition fees.
Voted for raising England’s undergraduate tuition fee cap to £9,000 per year.
Voted very strongly for increasing the rate of VAT.

Caroline Lucas (Green):

Voted against replacing Trident.
Voted a mixture of for and against more EU integration.
Voted very strongly against university tuition fees.
Voted against raising England’s undergraduate tuition fee cap to £9,000 per year.
Voted strongly against greater autonomy for schools.
Voted very strongly against increasing the rate of VAT.

I can't quite see where the 'Marxism' label comes in, can you?

whats the difference between voting against something and voting very strongly against something is there a multi tick box on the ballot paper were you can vote against a little ,a lot, a bit ,a bit more ,against ,very against ,very very against and very very strongly against ?????????

[quote][p][bold]Fercri Sakes[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]BornInBrighton1968[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Andy R[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]BornInBrighton1968[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Dealing with idiots[/bold] wrote: Thankfully another visible monument to the stupidity and vanity of Kitcat and his fellow champagne marxists. The vehicles will be slower, taking longer for each journey, burning more fuel and pumping more toxins into the air. Many of us cannot run a business using a bus. Some cannot turn up at work wet and sweaty at the beginning of the day as there are no facilities or time to shower. Help us get these nutters out and sign the Vote of No Confidence petition. http://present.brigh ton-hove.gov.uk/mgEP etitionDisplay.aspx? ID=360[/p][/quote]Now is the time for all Brighton men and women of good charachter to stand together to rid Brighton of the incompetent Green Party and '5 Homes' Lucas. If we all work together, we could kick the creepy, Marxist Green Party out of office in a matter of months; it could really happen![/p][/quote]No it couldn't.....[/p][/quote]But it could; it really could! Let us put up with no more nonsense from Caroline 'PhD in wimmins studies' and her incompetent Marxist Green loons[/p][/quote]As it's all getting a bit political here we should really start to bring some facts into the debate. Here's a quick comparison between the Hove MP Mike Weatherley and Brighton's Caroline Lucas from the theyworkforyou site: Mike Weatherly (Tory): Voted for replacing Trident. Voted strongly for more EU integration. Voted very strongly for university tuition fees. Voted for raising England’s undergraduate tuition fee cap to £9,000 per year. Voted very strongly for increasing the rate of VAT. Caroline Lucas (Green): Voted against replacing Trident. Voted a mixture of for and against more EU integration. Voted very strongly against university tuition fees. Voted against raising England’s undergraduate tuition fee cap to £9,000 per year. Voted strongly against greater autonomy for schools. Voted very strongly against increasing the rate of VAT. I can't quite see where the 'Marxism' label comes in, can you?[/p][/quote]whats the difference between voting against something and voting very strongly against something is there a multi tick box on the ballot paper were you can vote against a little ,a lot, a bit ,a bit more ,against ,very against ,very very against and very very strongly against ????????? martyt

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jamesbandenburg says...
6:15pm Thu 10 Jan 13

Tonight, Lewes Road was stationary from The Avenue onwards (it really is quite annoying sitting there for 5 minutes waiting for the traffic to move forwards enough for you to get into a side turning that's about 10 yards away from where you had to stop) which I assume is because the traffic cone fairies have been wreaking havoc on the stretch between The Avenue and the bus garage. The road's down to one lane, as it will be when the 'scheme' is finished, and as usual I could see maybe 2 buses in the vast sea of red lights. Quite how the council can justify billing the scheme as 'improvements' I'm not entirely sure.

And for the record I never drive into the town centre, the bus takes a bit longer but is still quick enough to offset the faff of driving around for an hour trying to find a parking space then realising you haven't got £50 in loose change to pay for it. However, I have to drive to the A27 up Lewes Road every day, and I live in Bevendean where there's no other way out. Already the tiny bits they're closing are starting to really affect my travel time on that stretch of road, so what's it going to be like when the 'improvements' are finished?

By the way, I also e-mailed the council whilst the temporary lights at Coldean Lane were causing horrendous delays, again mainly due to lane closures. The council elected not to respond, until I eventually received an e-mail stating "You will have noticed that traffic flows much more smoothly through the works" which was sent to me after the lights were removed. Very clever.

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martyt says...
6:17pm Thu 10 Jan 13

HJarrs wrote:
I fully expect the Argus to make merry over the next few months, stories of traffic jams, queues stretching back to Mars etc. There will be traffic jams, during construction, the road is being reduced in capacity significantly for a while. Incredibly, some people will find their journies no longer so necessary and I expect the effect on business overall across the city to be diddly-squat as it has been with all the parking charge increases.

The expectation is that some people will find some alternative routes and over time there will be a shift to bus and bike, but this takes time. Overall, I don't think that there will be much change for the car driver in two years time.

I am really looking forward to the "I haven't seen a cyclist use it yet" stories in just over a years time. I should be an Argus journo, I could write most of the next year's stories now!

as too parking charges i no longer shop in brighton ,will never use a bus to get my shopping done and the lewes road has been bad for years like most of the roads in to the city ,what i will be doing is voting with my feet and shopping out of town ,the city centre shops are feeling the pinch i have never seen so few people shopping there in the past 10 years

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martyt says...
6:20pm Thu 10 Jan 13

Bendy Bus God wrote:
Heaven forbid they consult the people who use this road daily for an opinion! I can honestly say, in 2 years of driving 25's I have never been stuck in traffic going up Lewes Road and only in rush hour going down it. The bus lane is pointless, it won't encourage people to use the bus or cycle more. I feel so sorry for the people living along this corridor who will face an all day traffic jam, just to get from A to B, whether in a bus or car. Not to mention the surrounding roads where traffic will disperse to. Like somebody previously said, with the bus stops built out there will just be a long line of buses in rush hour. Won't bother me as I'm getting paid but I'm sure it will bother the passengers. Late running and delays mean cancelled journeys, turning the buses short therefore overall a less reliable service.

Just look at the delay's when it gets reduced to one lane, why doesn't the council look at this??!!

An ill conceived idea from start to finish from our hippy liberal council. No matter what the council do, for some people, the car will always be the better option.

too true its the best part of driving a bus looking at all the car drivers doing there nut while you sit and wait and get paid for sitting and waiting

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Uncle_Meat says...
6:38pm Thu 10 Jan 13

Another cretinous decision by the crazy Greens. Let's block one lane of the road by putting a bus stop in it so it holds up all the traffic behind, and yes, Mr bus driver above, your colleagues and customers will also get held up in the same queue!

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Idontbelieveit1948 says...
7:33pm Thu 10 Jan 13

Fercri Sakes wrote:

russellsnr2 wrote:
Hi, Just curious, as motorized vehicles have to pay ROAD tax every year to be able to drive on the roads when will the cyclists be contributing towards these costs of cycle lanes as many of them encroach onto the side of the road that has been paid by?
Here we go again:

Cyclists pay more per mile travelled than car drivers for the upkeep of the roads.

There is no such thing as road tax. It's an emissions tax. Bikes have no emissions therefore pay no tax.

Maybe you should invent a bicycle that causes lots of pollution as that's the only way you'll win your argument.

It really is groundhog day for you isn't it Fercri Sakes. Please try to think of something new to say instead of infecting every thread with the same post - it really is getting very boring.

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Maxwell's Ghost says...
9:19pm Thu 10 Jan 13

The Greens issues an innaccurate press release using council tax payers money to claim that the scheme received overwhelming support.
I challenged the accuracy of the figures and the way they were being presented as they were manipulating the figures for their own purposes.
The press release was withdrawn from the council's website, although no apology or correction has been made.
This press release stated that the public were only worried about congestion the lane may cause. That was also untrue so we made a Freedom of Information request to seek feasibility reports into the scheme.
These clearly stated that the lane would remove less than one per cent of traffic from the route. Also more traffic would use alternative residential routes, as many of us had suggested in the consultation.
Councillor Ian Davey should resign for allowing inaccurate propoganda to be issued and for failing in transparency over a scheme on a key route and also doing this with council tax payers money.
Misleading the public and failing to be transparent are unacceptable behaviours of any party no matter what the colour.
This particular party has no confidence from the public and has resorted to misleading us to ensure it can pursue its aims.
The mess will play out in the public domain once the lane is installed and the Greens will go to ground as they have done with every other issue which has proved to be a mess.
This council will leave a damaging legacy for the local residents, meanwhile I will expect Mr KitKat and a few others to head off to other parts ofthe country to re-establish themselves.

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HJarrs says...
9:33pm Thu 10 Jan 13

Maxwell's Ghost wrote:
The Greens issues an innaccurate press release using council tax payers money to claim that the scheme received overwhelming support.
I challenged the accuracy of the figures and the way they were being presented as they were manipulating the figures for their own purposes.
The press release was withdrawn from the council's website, although no apology or correction has been made.
This press release stated that the public were only worried about congestion the lane may cause. That was also untrue so we made a Freedom of Information request to seek feasibility reports into the scheme.
These clearly stated that the lane would remove less than one per cent of traffic from the route. Also more traffic would use alternative residential routes, as many of us had suggested in the consultation.
Councillor Ian Davey should resign for allowing inaccurate propoganda to be issued and for failing in transparency over a scheme on a key route and also doing this with council tax payers money.
Misleading the public and failing to be transparent are unacceptable behaviours of any party no matter what the colour.
This particular party has no confidence from the public and has resorted to misleading us to ensure it can pursue its aims.
The mess will play out in the public domain once the lane is installed and the Greens will go to ground as they have done with every other issue which has proved to be a mess.
This council will leave a damaging legacy for the local residents, meanwhile I will expect Mr KitKat and a few others to head off to other parts ofthe country to re-establish themselves.

Did you get a letter back from the Prime Minister? The one complaining about the consultation; I've been waiting for the reply.

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HJarrs says...
9:40pm Thu 10 Jan 13

martyt wrote:

HJarrs wrote:
I fully expect the Argus to make merry over the next few months, stories of traffic jams, queues stretching back to Mars etc. There will be traffic jams, during construction, the road is being reduced in capacity significantly for a while. Incredibly, some people will find their journies no longer so necessary and I expect the effect on business overall across the city to be diddly-squat as it has been with all the parking charge increases.

The expectation is that some people will find some alternative routes and over time there will be a shift to bus and bike, but this takes time. Overall, I don't think that there will be much change for the car driver in two years time.

I am really looking forward to the "I haven't seen a cyclist use it yet" stories in just over a years time. I should be an Argus journo, I could write most of the next year's stories now!
as too parking charges i no longer shop in brighton ,will never use a bus to get my shopping done and the lewes road has been bad for years like most of the roads in to the city ,what i will be doing is voting with my feet and shopping out of town ,the city centre shops are feeling the pinch i have never seen so few people shopping there in the past 10 years

I suspect the lack of economic impact of the parking charges was down to reducing the number of parking "blockers" i.e. those parking but spending little or no money, but depriving those spending money of parking. An interview with someone from another local authority explained this effect a few months ago.

I am sure the parking charges affected some businesses and people to their detriment, I personally thought the charges high and welcomed the review, but Brighton and Hove singularly failed to down the tubes, just as it will not when the cycle lane is being built (and I expect a lot of disruption) nor when it is built.

[quote][p][bold]martyt[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]HJarrs[/bold] wrote: I fully expect the Argus to make merry over the next few months, stories of traffic jams, queues stretching back to Mars etc. There will be traffic jams, during construction, the road is being reduced in capacity significantly for a while. Incredibly, some people will find their journies no longer so necessary and I expect the effect on business overall across the city to be diddly-squat as it has been with all the parking charge increases. The expectation is that some people will find some alternative routes and over time there will be a shift to bus and bike, but this takes time. Overall, I don't think that there will be much change for the car driver in two years time. I am really looking forward to the "I haven't seen a cyclist use it yet" stories in just over a years time. I should be an Argus journo, I could write most of the next year's stories now![/p][/quote]as too parking charges i no longer shop in brighton ,will never use a bus to get my shopping done and the lewes road has been bad for years like most of the roads in to the city ,what i will be doing is voting with my feet and shopping out of town ,the city centre shops are feeling the pinch i have never seen so few people shopping there in the past 10 years[/p][/quote]I suspect the lack of economic impact of the parking charges was down to reducing the number of parking "blockers" i.e. those parking but spending little or no money, but depriving those spending money of parking. An interview with someone from another local authority explained this effect a few months ago. I am sure the parking charges affected some businesses and people to their detriment, I personally thought the charges high and welcomed the review, but Brighton and Hove singularly failed to down the tubes, just as it will not when the cycle lane is being built (and I expect a lot of disruption) nor when it is built. HJarrs

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Maxwell's Ghost says...
9:49pm Thu 10 Jan 13

HJarrs you can make fun and ridicule to detract from the fact that elected members have used public money to issue misleading information but most of us who believe in honesty and transparency will continue in our aim to ensure people like you and your party do not destroy democracy and do not misuse public funds illegally.
You are part if the Green spin machine misleading the public.
It's unacceptable to decent people. Please go back to London.

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farang says...
10:37pm Thu 10 Jan 13

Crikey, what a bunch of negative cynics.
I use the road all the time at all times of day and night and the only time it's busy is during rush hour - and, at most, the delay is maybe five minutes - so what's all the hurry?
As for the commie-phobes - are you insane?
The only problem I can see at the bus stop is that it needs a bollard so it's more obvious to the mobile phone using motorists. Also there is a new pedestrian crossing, though I suspect the cynics will rant about that too "people crossing the road - 'ere, they paying any tax to do that"
Oh do shut up!

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ghost bus driver says...
12:59am Fri 11 Jan 13

Uncle_Meat wrote:
Another cretinous decision by the crazy Greens. Let's block one lane of the road by putting a bus stop in it so it holds up all the traffic behind, and yes, Mr bus driver above, your colleagues and customers will also get held up in the same queue!

Yes we will get held up too, but we get paid for it.

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sedwardsESQ says...
1:14am Fri 11 Jan 13

Why not put cycle lane down the central reservation, then that would solve issue of lazy dog owners dogs messing, another issue is that turning Lewes Road into a single track would cause huge tailbacks both ways during rush hour, it's only because of the two lanes that help make traffic flow, these designs these people make are probably decided over a drink at a barstool dancing club and written on a beer mat, will be another waste of cash that this county could do well without with all it's cutbacks, they couldn't get the plans right for the London road scheme and was build back to front....lmbo

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sedwardsESQ says...
1:54am Fri 11 Jan 13

martyt wrote:

Fercri Sakes wrote:

BornInBrighton1968 wrote:

Andy R wrote:

BornInBrighton1968 wrote:

Dealing with idiots wrote: Thankfully another visible monument to the stupidity and vanity of Kitcat and his fellow champagne marxists. The vehicles will be slower, taking longer for each journey, burning more fuel and pumping more toxins into the air. Many of us cannot run a business using a bus. Some cannot turn up at work wet and sweaty at the beginning of the day as there are no facilities or time to shower. Help us get these nutters out and sign the Vote of No Confidence petition. http://present.brigh ton-hove.gov.uk/mgEP etitionDisplay.aspx? ID=360
Now is the time for all Brighton men and women of good charachter to stand together to rid Brighton of the incompetent Green Party and '5 Homes' Lucas. If we all work together, we could kick the creepy, Marxist Green Party out of office in a matter of months; it could really happen!
No it couldn't.....
But it could; it really could!

Let us put up with no more nonsense from Caroline 'PhD in wimmins studies' and her incompetent Marxist Green loons
As it's all getting a bit political here we should really start to bring some facts into the debate. Here's a quick comparison between the Hove MP Mike Weatherley and Brighton's Caroline Lucas from the theyworkforyou site:

Mike Weatherly (Tory):

Voted for replacing Trident.
Voted strongly for more EU integration.
Voted very strongly for university tuition fees.
Voted for raising England’s undergraduate tuition fee cap to £9,000 per year.
Voted very strongly for increasing the rate of VAT.

Caroline Lucas (Green):

Voted against replacing Trident.
Voted a mixture of for and against more EU integration.
Voted very strongly against university tuition fees.
Voted against raising England’s undergraduate tuition fee cap to £9,000 per year.
Voted strongly against greater autonomy for schools.
Voted very strongly against increasing the rate of VAT.

I can't quite see where the 'Marxism' label comes in, can you?
whats the difference between voting against something and voting very strongly against something is there a multi tick box on the ballot paper were you can vote against a little ,a lot, a bit ,a bit more ,against ,very against ,very very against and very very strongly against ?????????

Simple to what's different in against and very against ; well if you vote against=your vote will be binned, if you vote very against=will be binned a burnt (minding they don't catch office ablaze) and if you vote very strongly against you will probably be cast out of society with possibly a false criminal record for good measure, if you decide not to bother voting at all on account of above you could continue using the Argus Gripes Page :-)

[quote][p][bold]martyt[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Fercri Sakes[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]BornInBrighton1968[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Andy R[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]BornInBrighton1968[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Dealing with idiots[/bold] wrote: Thankfully another visible monument to the stupidity and vanity of Kitcat and his fellow champagne marxists. The vehicles will be slower, taking longer for each journey, burning more fuel and pumping more toxins into the air. Many of us cannot run a business using a bus. Some cannot turn up at work wet and sweaty at the beginning of the day as there are no facilities or time to shower. Help us get these nutters out and sign the Vote of No Confidence petition. http://present.brigh ton-hove.gov.uk/mgEP etitionDisplay.aspx? ID=360[/p][/quote]Now is the time for all Brighton men and women of good charachter to stand together to rid Brighton of the incompetent Green Party and '5 Homes' Lucas. If we all work together, we could kick the creepy, Marxist Green Party out of office in a matter of months; it could really happen![/p][/quote]No it couldn't.....[/p][/quote]But it could; it really could! Let us put up with no more nonsense from Caroline 'PhD in wimmins studies' and her incompetent Marxist Green loons[/p][/quote]As it's all getting a bit political here we should really start to bring some facts into the debate. Here's a quick comparison between the Hove MP Mike Weatherley and Brighton's Caroline Lucas from the theyworkforyou site: Mike Weatherly (Tory): Voted for replacing Trident. Voted strongly for more EU integration. Voted very strongly for university tuition fees. Voted for raising England’s undergraduate tuition fee cap to £9,000 per year. Voted very strongly for increasing the rate of VAT. Caroline Lucas (Green): Voted against replacing Trident. Voted a mixture of for and against more EU integration. Voted very strongly against university tuition fees. Voted against raising England’s undergraduate tuition fee cap to £9,000 per year. Voted strongly against greater autonomy for schools. Voted very strongly against increasing the rate of VAT. I can't quite see where the 'Marxism' label comes in, can you?[/p][/quote]whats the difference between voting against something and voting very strongly against something is there a multi tick box on the ballot paper were you can vote against a little ,a lot, a bit ,a bit more ,against ,very against ,very very against and very very strongly against ?????????[/p][/quote]Simple to what's different in against and very against ; well if you vote against=your vote will be binned, if you vote very against=will be binned a burnt (minding they don't catch office ablaze) and if you vote very strongly against you will probably be cast out of society with possibly a false criminal record for good measure, if you decide not to bother voting at all on account of above you could continue using the Argus Gripes Page :-) sedwardsESQ

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imnotpc says...
8:07am Fri 11 Jan 13

For all the pedantic idiots...call it whatever you like road tax,road fund license blah blah even the thicko's must get the drift.what we the motorists are saying is its about time the cyclists started paying or if they don't then they must shut up and be quiet as they can't have any say whatsoever.many thanks xx

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posthuman says...
8:39am Fri 11 Jan 13

The ignorance and the short-sightedness in these kind of threads, (it would seem mostly by the motoring fraternity) demonstrates the very need for the support to segregate human-propelled vehicles away from those who wouldn't no the know what's good for them, unless you have the alternative to force it anyway.

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Fercri Sakes says...
10:42am Fri 11 Jan 13

imnotpc wrote:
For all the pedantic idiots...call it whatever you like road tax,road fund license blah blah even the thicko's must get the drift.what we the motorists are saying is its about time the cyclists started paying or if they don't then they must shut up and be quiet as they can't have any say whatsoever.many thanks xx

Oh my God. Still? Quickly. Fact: Cyclists pay more per mile than car drivers. The end.

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Maxwell's Ghost says...
12:26pm Fri 11 Jan 13

immotpc, I commute to work by bike but I also own a car and a motorbike which are both taxed and insured.
The days my vehicles are parked and not moving on the roads, I am using my cycle.
Therefore, I am paying.
Also I pay council tax, NI and the UK higher rate tax on my salary.
I have private dental and health care, I claim no child benefits etc.
I am a high level financial contributor to the UK so I would suggest I am entitled to ride my bike 50 miles a day.
What do you give to the UK and what do you take?

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kemptownbreastfeeder says...
12:34pm Fri 11 Jan 13

russellsnr2 wrote:
Hi, Just curious, as motorized vehicles have to pay ROAD tax every year to be able to drive on the roads when will the cyclists be contributing towards these costs of cycle lanes as many of them encroach onto the side of the road that has been paid by?

Actually EVERYONE pays road tax, regardless of car ownership. So your point is not valid. Next?

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Number Six says...
1:26pm Fri 11 Jan 13

Fercri Sakes wrote:

imnotpc wrote:
For all the pedantic idiots...call it whatever you like road tax,road fund license blah blah even the thicko's must get the drift.what we the motorists are saying is its about time the cyclists started paying or if they don't then they must shut up and be quiet as they can't have any say whatsoever.many thanks xx
Oh my God. Still? Quickly. Fact: Cyclists pay more per mile than car drivers. The end.

Very good. Please show all workings

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imnotpc says...
7:32pm Fri 11 Jan 13

Number Six wrote:

Fercri Sakes wrote:

imnotpc wrote:
For all the pedantic idiots...call it whatever you like road tax,road fund license blah blah even the thicko's must get the drift.what we the motorists are saying is its about time the cyclists started paying or if they don't then they must shut up and be quiet as they can't have any say whatsoever.many thanks xx
Oh my God. Still? Quickly. Fact: Cyclists pay more per mile than car drivers. The end.
Very good. Please show all workings

The only 'fact here is that you are a complete moron lol.I know the truth hurts but i'm afraid this country would collapse without the motorist FACT... now dream on laughing boy xx

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imnotpc says...
7:34pm Fri 11 Jan 13

Maxwell's Ghost wrote:
immotpc, I commute to work by bike but I also own a car and a motorbike which are both taxed and insured.
The days my vehicles are parked and not moving on the roads, I am using my cycle.
Therefore, I am paying.
Also I pay council tax, NI and the UK higher rate tax on my salary.
I have private dental and health care, I claim no child benefits etc.
I am a high level financial contributor to the UK so I would suggest I am entitled to ride my bike 50 miles a day.
What do you give to the UK and what do you take?

What a marvelous person you are we all bow to you lol

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thevoiceoftruth says...
8:26pm Fri 11 Jan 13

HJarrs wrote:
I fully expect the Argus to make merry over the next few months, stories of traffic jams, queues stretching back to Mars etc. There will be traffic jams, during construction, the road is being reduced in capacity significantly for a while. Incredibly, some people will find their journies no longer so necessary and I expect the effect on business overall across the city to be diddly-squat as it has been with all the parking charge increases.

The expectation is that some people will find some alternative routes and over time there will be a shift to bus and bike, but this takes time. Overall, I don't think that there will be much change for the car driver in two years time.

I am really looking forward to the "I haven't seen a cyclist use it yet" stories in just over a years time. I should be an Argus journo, I could write most of the next year's stories now!

So where do you live, HJarrs? Just curious because I have a feeling the Lewes Road doesn't really feature in your journey.

I am dreading the Lewes Road scheme. You say people will find alternative routes. Yes! Through residential streets nearby. I am so pleased to hear that you are looking forward to the headlines on the disaster ahead. I predict them too. I also predict the Green Party's little reign of power, is a bit like the Lib Dems getting into bed with the Tories. One shot in power and they screw it up, never to be re-elected.

However, this cars v bikes argument is getting a bit tiresome now. Whether I'm driving, walking or cycling, I regularly see pedestrians wandering out into the road texting, cyclists risking life and death, terrible drivers with no patience or awareness of what is around them. Stupid people everywhere, on all modes of transport!

A bicycle tax is as ridiculous as taxing a skateboard. Cars are licenced and taxed by adults. 14-year olds don't own cars, but they have bicycles. So how do you prove the bike belonged to the adult of the household, or the teenager? Totally unenforcable.

Also, most adult cycists also drive - so they already contribute towards the roads.

[quote][p][bold]HJarrs[/bold] wrote: I fully expect the Argus to make merry over the next few months, stories of traffic jams, queues stretching back to Mars etc. There will be traffic jams, during construction, the road is being reduced in capacity significantly for a while. Incredibly, some people will find their journies no longer so necessary and I expect the effect on business overall across the city to be diddly-squat as it has been with all the parking charge increases. The expectation is that some people will find some alternative routes and over time there will be a shift to bus and bike, but this takes time. Overall, I don't think that there will be much change for the car driver in two years time. I am really looking forward to the "I haven't seen a cyclist use it yet" stories in just over a years time. I should be an Argus journo, I could write most of the next year's stories now![/p][/quote]So where do you live, HJarrs? Just curious because I have a feeling the Lewes Road doesn't really feature in your journey. I am dreading the Lewes Road scheme. You say people will find alternative routes. Yes! Through residential streets nearby. I am so pleased to hear that you are looking forward to the headlines on the disaster ahead. I predict them too. I also predict the Green Party's little reign of power, is a bit like the Lib Dems getting into bed with the Tories. One shot in power and they screw it up, never to be re-elected. However, this cars v bikes argument is getting a bit tiresome now. Whether I'm driving, walking or cycling, I regularly see pedestrians wandering out into the road texting, cyclists risking life and death, terrible drivers with no patience or awareness of what is around them. Stupid people everywhere, on all modes of transport! A bicycle tax is as ridiculous as taxing a skateboard. Cars are licenced and taxed by adults. 14-year olds don't own cars, but they have bicycles. So how do you prove the bike belonged to the adult of the household, or the teenager? Totally unenforcable. Also, most adult cycists also drive - so they already contribute towards the roads. thevoiceoftruth

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Idontbelieveit1948 says...
8:48pm Fri 11 Jan 13

Fercri Sakes wrote:

imnotpc wrote:
For all the pedantic idiots...call it whatever you like road tax,road fund license blah blah even the thicko's must get the drift.what we the motorists are saying is its about time the cyclists started paying or if they don't then they must shut up and be quiet as they can't have any say whatsoever.many thanks xx
Oh my God. Still? Quickly. Fact: Cyclists pay more per mile than car drivers. The end.

Oh do shut up Fercri sakes !

All your flaming hot air is warming the bl**dy planet up.

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Maxwell's Ghost says...
1:25am Sat 12 Jan 13

Immotpc I accept you bowing to me. Now get a job and pay your share to the UK pot instead of bleating on. And hey get some exercise.
HJarrs lives in Hanover and appears not to work regular hours. He moved to the city from London.
He doesn't seem to understand people or understand the real city, the topography, estate living etc.
just like many greens he lives in the regency mile pottering about at home all day while most working people are running about at break neck speed trying to work full time, pay a mortgage, get kids to school, look after elderly relatives all over town etc
He probably inherited cash for a house or sold a London flat to move here and
then dish out pious advice to locals stuck out on estates about how they should get up snakey back hill or bear road on a bike with the weekly shop.
I'm not sure if his wife is a green councillor or he's a green troll.

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sedwardsESQ says...
6:48pm Sat 12 Jan 13

Bendy Bus God wrote:
I spend 10 hours a day driving our beloved bendy buses up and down. The consultation was no where near wide enough! I don't live in the area concerned nor commute through it so I don't really care. I am simply giving an opinion based on my experiences of working on Lewes Road day in day out. I'm sure the business opposite B&Q are not happy at loosing all the parking and having CCTV enforcing the cycle lanes. How will load and unload?

Whether I do one trip a day and sit in traffic or do 8 I get paid the same. But from the point of view of passengers, I would rather sit in my car in traffic instead of a sweaty bus full of people coughing, sitting in the same queue. The whole point of this is to make alternative modes of transport attractive.

Accidents will always happen no matter what the council do. People will always make stupid decisions whether they are cyclists, drivers or people crossing roads.

It is a shame we didn't have a bendy conductor with the bendybus:-)

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remluf says...
8:46pm Sat 12 Jan 13

russellsnr2 wrote:
Hi, Just curious, as motorized vehicles have to pay ROAD tax every year to be able to drive on the roads when will the cyclists be contributing towards these costs of cycle lanes as many of them encroach onto the side of the road that has been paid by?

I own a car and a bike, so I pay towards it, as do a lot of people.

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thevoiceoftruth says...
1:29pm Sun 13 Jan 13

Maxwell's Ghost wrote:
Immotpc I accept you bowing to me. Now get a job and pay your share to the UK pot instead of bleating on. And hey get some exercise.
HJarrs lives in Hanover and appears not to work regular hours. He moved to the city from London.
He doesn't seem to understand people or understand the real city, the topography, estate living etc.
just like many greens he lives in the regency mile pottering about at home all day while most working people are running about at break neck speed trying to work full time, pay a mortgage, get kids to school, look after elderly relatives all over town etc
He probably inherited cash for a house or sold a London flat to move here and
then dish out pious advice to locals stuck out on estates about how they should get up snakey back hill or bear road on a bike with the weekly shop.
I'm not sure if his wife is a green councillor or he's a green troll.

Interesting - thanks Maxwell.I figured that would be the story. Bet he doesn't do his weekly shop on a bicycle!

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hove dweller says...
6:34pm Sun 13 Jan 13

Some people are annoyed they were not consulted. Although I live in Hove, I use the Lewes road most days - by bus, car, bike and motorbike, depending on weather and purpose of my trip. BHCC would not have consulted with me as a Hove resident. I think that as residents of this city, the onus is on us, to be active citizens, to make ourselves aware about what's on the horizon. BHCC have a consultation portal which anyone can sign up to and this sends out a alert when a new consultation is happening. This is how i found out about the lewes road consultation and the seven dials one, which i also pass through every day. This is how i got my view put forward (whether it counts is another matter!). Unless BHCC send out a paper consultation to every household in this city, how will they know how to capture all the people who use the road, but do not live in the local neighbourhood. I just think that people should be more proactive themselves.
I supported the lewes road changes, but this means i will not use a car down there anymore. thats a good thing.

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ARealBessie says...
7:39pm Sun 13 Jan 13

hove dweller wrote:
Some people are annoyed they were not consulted. Although I live in Hove, I use the Lewes road most days - by bus, car, bike and motorbike, depending on weather and purpose of my trip. BHCC would not have consulted with me as a Hove resident. I think that as residents of this city, the onus is on us, to be active citizens, to make ourselves aware about what's on the horizon. BHCC have a consultation portal which anyone can sign up to and this sends out a alert when a new consultation is happening. This is how i found out about the lewes road consultation and the seven dials one, which i also pass through every day. This is how i got my view put forward (whether it counts is another matter!). Unless BHCC send out a paper consultation to every household in this city, how will they know how to capture all the people who use the road, but do not live in the local neighbourhood. I just think that people should be more proactive themselves.
I supported the lewes road changes, but this means i will not use a car down there anymore. thats a good thing.

By the time this council gets round to 'consulting the public' you can be sure that all key decisions have already been made. So, I hate to break it to you but no, sadly your view doesn't matter.
If these consultations were a genuine part of the democratic process I too would urge people to get off their backsides and 'engage'. But they're not - if anything such consultations undermine the democratic process precisely because they bare no relevance to the outcome of key council decisions. Therefore, I'd personally urge people to regard these consultations as useful fact finding exercises (as in, 'what has the council in store for us next?') but NOT to participate by answering any actual forms. Why? Because to do so lends legitimacy to what has (proved to be) a wholly illegitimate process.

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Hove Actually says...
11:39am Mon 14 Jan 13

I cycled along the Old Shoreham Road the other day...........
Not on kitcats cycle lane but in the single land left for the cars holding up the traffic, why because legally I can

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Fercri Sakes says...
2:11pm Mon 14 Jan 13

Hove Actually wrote:
I cycled along the Old Shoreham Road the other day...........
Not on kitcats cycle lane but in the single land left for the cars holding up the traffic, why because legally I can

If you had a couple of children with you, say 6 and 8, where would you want them to cycle next to you? In the road, on the cycle path, or on the pavement?

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BURIRAM says...
3:32pm Mon 14 Jan 13

Another waste of money

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sedwardsESQ says...
4:53pm Mon 14 Jan 13

ARealBessie wrote:

hove dweller wrote:
Some people are annoyed they were not consulted. Although I live in Hove, I use the Lewes road most days - by bus, car, bike and motorbike, depending on weather and purpose of my trip. BHCC would not have consulted with me as a Hove resident. I think that as residents of this city, the onus is on us, to be active citizens, to make ourselves aware about what's on the horizon. BHCC have a consultation portal which anyone can sign up to and this sends out a alert when a new consultation is happening. This is how i found out about the lewes road consultation and the seven dials one, which i also pass through every day. This is how i got my view put forward (whether it counts is another matter!). Unless BHCC send out a paper consultation to every household in this city, how will they know how to capture all the people who use the road, but do not live in the local neighbourhood. I just think that people should be more proactive themselves.
I supported the lewes road changes, but this means i will not use a car down there anymore. thats a good thing.
By the time this council gets round to 'consulting the public' you can be sure that all key decisions have already been made. So, I hate to break it to you but no, sadly your view doesn't matter.
If these consultations were a genuine part of the democratic process I too would urge people to get off their backsides and 'engage'. But they're not - if anything such consultations undermine the democratic process precisely because they bare no relevance to the outcome of key council decisions. Therefore, I'd personally urge people to regard these consultations as useful fact finding exercises (as in, 'what has the council in store for us next?') but NOT to participate by answering any actual forms. Why? Because to do so lends legitimacy to what has (proved to be) a wholly illegitimate process.

ARealBessie: I'll quote you an example of that, few years ago I was invited to join a panel at City Council Kings House Hove to choose a piece of Art to be placed at an housing scheme in Brighton (present was Cllr K Allen) anyway the piece of Art's that we chose as a panel was not the pieces of Art truly chosen, merely for safety reason and children.....So proves your point of the decision being already made before hand.

[quote][p][bold]ARealBessie[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]hove dweller[/bold] wrote: Some people are annoyed they were not consulted. Although I live in Hove, I use the Lewes road most days - by bus, car, bike and motorbike, depending on weather and purpose of my trip. BHCC would not have consulted with me as a Hove resident. I think that as residents of this city, the onus is on us, to be active citizens, to make ourselves aware about what's on the horizon. BHCC have a consultation portal which anyone can sign up to and this sends out a alert when a new consultation is happening. This is how i found out about the lewes road consultation and the seven dials one, which i also pass through every day. This is how i got my view put forward (whether it counts is another matter!). Unless BHCC send out a paper consultation to every household in this city, how will they know how to capture all the people who use the road, but do not live in the local neighbourhood. I just think that people should be more proactive themselves. I supported the lewes road changes, but this means i will not use a car down there anymore. thats a good thing.[/p][/quote]By the time this council gets round to 'consulting the public' you can be sure that all key decisions have already been made. So, I hate to break it to you but no, sadly your view doesn't matter. If these consultations were a genuine part of the democratic process I too would urge people to get off their backsides and 'engage'. But they're not - if anything such consultations undermine the democratic process precisely because they bare no relevance to the outcome of key council decisions. Therefore, I'd personally urge people to regard these consultations as useful fact finding exercises (as in, 'what has the council in store for us next?') but NOT to participate by answering any actual forms. Why? Because to do so lends legitimacy to what has (proved to be) a wholly illegitimate process.[/p][/quote]ARealBessie: I'll quote you an example of that, few years ago I was invited to join a panel at City Council Kings House Hove to choose a piece of Art to be placed at an housing scheme in Brighton (present was Cllr K Allen) anyway the piece of Art's that we chose as a panel was not the pieces of Art truly chosen, merely for safety reason and children.....So proves your point of the decision being already made before hand. sedwardsESQ

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SussexLifeform says...
5:44pm Mon 14 Jan 13

As a keen cyclist, keen car driver, and former driver of HGVs, this does - on the surface - seem to be a silly scheme; putting wheeled pedestrians (which is what cyclists basically are) in the same lane as just about the largest vehicle you might reasonably encounter in the city is just asking for trouble.

Anyway, I think some people are missing the point on cycle lanes a bit; inner cities, especially old cities like ours, are better served with a broad mix of well supported transport options; cycling being one of the most favourable; zero pollution, 5' x 1' parking requirement, not prone to congestion.

However, cycling alone is not the answer. If the Greens really were green, they'd understand it - they'd be incentivising zero-emissions taxis, putting the squeeze on B&H Buses to move to a cleaner hybrid fleet, giving business rates cuts to firms who get X% staff cycling to work, and providing adequate affordable off and on street parking, and a park & ride scheme which isn't a complete joke.

If anyone takes the time to rummage around on the council website, you'll find the cycle policy dates from 2004. So any hope we have for an integrated sensible cycle lane on Lewes Road, much less an actual integrated transport policy, is pretty much non-existent.

Green council indeed.

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sedwardsESQ says...
8:17pm Mon 14 Jan 13

SussexLifeform wrote:
As a keen cyclist, keen car driver, and former driver of HGVs, this does - on the surface - seem to be a silly scheme; putting wheeled pedestrians (which is what cyclists basically are) in the same lane as just about the largest vehicle you might reasonably encounter in the city is just asking for trouble.

Anyway, I think some people are missing the point on cycle lanes a bit; inner cities, especially old cities like ours, are better served with a broad mix of well supported transport options; cycling being one of the most favourable; zero pollution, 5' x 1' parking requirement, not prone to congestion.

However, cycling alone is not the answer. If the Greens really were green, they'd understand it - they'd be incentivising zero-emissions taxis, putting the squeeze on B&H Buses to move to a cleaner hybrid fleet, giving business rates cuts to firms who get X% staff cycling to work, and providing adequate affordable off and on street parking, and a park & ride scheme which isn't a complete joke.

If anyone takes the time to rummage around on the council website, you'll find the cycle policy dates from 2004. So any hope we have for an integrated sensible cycle lane on Lewes Road, much less an actual integrated transport policy, is pretty much non-existent.

Green council indeed.

Green Council Indeed, no they are in need!

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Athena says...
4:33pm Tue 15 Jan 13

Fercri Sakes wrote:

russellsnr2 wrote:
Hi, Just curious, as motorized vehicles have to pay ROAD tax every year to be able to drive on the roads when will the cyclists be contributing towards these costs of cycle lanes as many of them encroach onto the side of the road that has been paid by?
Here we go again:

Cyclists pay more per mile travelled than car drivers for the upkeep of the roads.

There is no such thing as road tax. It's an emissions tax. Bikes have no emissions therefore pay no tax.

Maybe you should invent a bicycle that causes lots of pollution as that's the only way you'll win your argument.

When the road tax was invented, no one had ever heard of emissions. Call it what you like, it's a tax on vehicles to pay for our roads. It's instead of charging us to use the motorways. As a vast amount of money is now being wasted on dangerous cycle lanes, then cyclists should be made to pay for them and should also be charged a road tax like other road users.

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sedwardsESQ says...
6:17pm Tue 15 Jan 13

Athena wrote:

Fercri Sakes wrote:

russellsnr2 wrote:
Hi, Just curious, as motorized vehicles have to pay ROAD tax every year to be able to drive on the roads when will the cyclists be contributing towards these costs of cycle lanes as many of them encroach onto the side of the road that has been paid by?
Here we go again:

Cyclists pay more per mile travelled than car drivers for the upkeep of the roads.

There is no such thing as road tax. It's an emissions tax. Bikes have no emissions therefore pay no tax.

Maybe you should invent a bicycle that causes lots of pollution as that's the only way you'll win your argument.
When the road tax was invented, no one had ever heard of emissions. Call it what you like, it's a tax on vehicles to pay for our roads. It's instead of charging us to use the motorways. As a vast amount of money is now being wasted on dangerous cycle lanes, then cyclists should be made to pay for them and should also be charged a road tax like other road users.

Athena
I think it would be difficult and not wise to start charging a bike tax, however those who intend to use the roads with their bikes should be made to take out an accident insurance as per vehicle, that covers themselves and damages they may cause, this will also deter those who misuses the roads and byways and a form of registration for each bike from purchase to perhaps cut the bike crime rate and not post codes as people intend to move or a form of driving license id or would all this be to sensible?

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sedwardsESQ says...
6:26pm Tue 15 Jan 13

As any one really took the time to think about the folk from emergency services that have to pick up all of pieces of the body of a person whose just been knocked of their bike and scattered by a huge truck and then to find they have no ID or personal documents and for the bike, well that's a right off but nothing to identify the rider. Least with a car if legal, registration **** that's Mrs Toodle of Faversham lane (EXAMPLE).

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Bendy Bus God says...
10:13pm Tue 15 Jan 13

sedwardsESQ wrote:

Bendy Bus God wrote:
I spend 10 hours a day driving our beloved bendy buses up and down. The consultation was no where near wide enough! I don't live in the area concerned nor commute through it so I don't really care. I am simply giving an opinion based on my experiences of working on Lewes Road day in day out. I'm sure the business opposite B&Q are not happy at loosing all the parking and having CCTV enforcing the cycle lanes. How will load and unload?

Whether I do one trip a day and sit in traffic or do 8 I get paid the same. But from the point of view of passengers, I would rather sit in my car in traffic instead of a sweaty bus full of people coughing, sitting in the same queue. The whole point of this is to make alternative modes of transport attractive.

Accidents will always happen no matter what the council do. People will always make stupid decisions whether they are cyclists, drivers or people crossing roads.
It is a shame we didn't have a bendy conductor with the bendybus:-)

If only I could have a conductor........ Would mean I don't have to have any contact with the passengers.

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Joshiman says...
10:54am Thu 17 Jan 13

No !!! road tax was always an indirect tax.Initially to help towards cost of roads etc..Then the government spun it to co2 emmissions claptrap.

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New Brighton cycle lane takes turn for the better (From The Argus)

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Lewes Road cycle lane takes turn for the better

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