Brighton's Valley Gardens gateway plan

An artist's impression of how Grand Parade will look if the changes are approved

An artist's impression of how Grand Parade will look if the changes are approved

First published in News
Last updated
by

Plans for the radical transformation of the city’s main gateway have been revealed.

The proposed traffic masterplan for Valley Gardens – which stretches from The Level to Palace Pier – has been put out for public consultation by Brighton and Hove City Council.

The new layout would see cars restricted to the east side (Kemp Town side) of Valley Gardens with a dedicated bus and taxi lane to the west (Hove side).

Proposals will also see a vast pedestrianised zone on the west side modelled on Edinburgh’s famous Grassmarket.

Planning experts, who are showcasing the designs this week, have said that the intention is to make the area an attractive meeting space for residents and visitors while at the same time improving the traffic flow.

However the council last night refused to reveal how much it would cost taxpayers.

They are now appealing to residents to have their say before the proposals go before the transport committee in March.

The council carried out a consultation in April last year to gauge opinion towards the Valley Gardens area.

Over 80% of people said that they wanted to spend more time in the area while just 1% said they thought it was fine as it was.

Simpler road layout

In particular residents said that a simpler road layout was needed.

Jim Mayor, one of the scheme’s project managers, explained that the reason the area was so muddled and confusing was down to the sporadic nature of improvements over the years.

By simplifying the layout, they expect to reduce the amount of space dedicated to traffic by 25%.

The east side will see four lanes (two going north and two south) from the Level to the Palace Pier.

As a result the extra lanes will eat into the gardens with an estimated 7.6% loss of green space.

Elm trees

Additionally the existing elm trees will be incorporated into the central reservation although a few are expected to be cut down.

The west side will see two lanes dedicated to buses along with a cycle lane.

There will be three main bus interchanges along the route at St Peter’s Church, Marlborough Place and the Royal Pavilion.

The council confirmed that the newly agreed 20mph limit will apply along the length of the new network.

Pedestrian friendly

One of the key objectives of the project is to make the area an “attractive, flexible, safe space” for people to meet and spend time in.

Developers hope to achieve this by making the west side of the gardens a pedestrian friendly walkway. The project’s headline feature is set to be a huge pedestrianised walkway modelled on Edinburgh’s Grassmarket.

That space, which was once a public gallows, has been transformed into one of the Scottish capital’s most popular outdoor event spaces.

Running along the Old Steine between North Road and Church Street, council planners hope that the space can be used for Festival, Fringe and other community events.

The Argus: valley gardens illustration

Julian Caddy, director of Brighton Fringe, said: “From an events point of view I think it is very positive.

“However I think they can go even further.

“They could make that whole area more like Trafalgar Square, which used to be incredibly busy.

“It is the grand gateway to the city and has so much potential.

“It just needs a bit of love and attention.

“However, as ever with these proposals, the question is where is the money going to come from?”

Attractive area

Despite the reduction in green space down the middle of the road, planners also hope to make it a more attractive area for residents and visitors to spend time.

Along with zigzagging pathways and water fountains in front of St Peter’s, there are plans to have wild grass land and special plants which absorb pollution from the road.

Mr Mayor added that the plans were still just a “concept” and by no means “set in stone”.

Stephen Owen, from Graves Son and Pilcher on the Old Steine, contacted The Argus after information on the scheme was dropped through his door.

Motorists concern

He said: “It’s unbelievable, yet again motorists are being pushed out.

“The main lifeblood of this city is tourism and if people can’t get here then they won’t bother. It looks like this scheme is going to make it harder to get to the seafront.

“If visitors from London are having to queue from Pycombe to get here, then they won’t bother.

“Anyway, I thought we had a council with no money?”

Steve Percy, from the People’s Parking Protest group, added: “I can envisage so many problems with the proposals.

London Road trade

“Yet again this whole project is at the expense of the motorist.

“I also feel sorry for the traders on London Road. The single side of traffic will direct cars towards Lewes Road and while it won’t be impossible to get to London Road, it will be a lot harder.

“The council spends all this money on these fancy schemes – but where is the money coming from?

“They are either going to have to increase rates or spend money they don’t have.”

What happens next?

The council is appealing for the public to have their say before the plans go to the transport committee in March.

They then hope to start work “later in 2013” following a successful grant application from the Better Bus Areas scheme.

Council bosses claim further funding is in place but refused to reveal to The Argus last night what the cost to the taxpayer would be.

Additionally they were unable to estimate when the work may be complete.

To view the proposals in detail visit www.brighton-hove.gov.uk/index.cfm?request=c1261094.
Responses should be sent to Valley Gardens feedback, Brighton & Hove City Council, Room 404, Hove Town Hall, Norton Road, Hove, BN3 3LS.

Additionally you can call (01273) 293858 or email valleygardens@brighton-hove.gov.uk

Your views

Georgiana Negrisanu, 22, Brighton, said: "I think the pedestrianised zone sounds really cool. It’s not really warm enough at the moment but come the summer I’m sure it will be very popular."

Michael Ernst, 24, Hove, said: "I’ve lived here all my life and I don’t think it is too much of an issue to be honest. However, I think they could get rid of the obsolete cycle lane, nobody ever uses it."

George Brooker, 77, Coldean, said: “I don’t trust this Green council with anything. They are forcing the motorist out. If you drive a car you are paying your road tax so should have a say on what your money is being spent on. They just don’t want to listen.”

Cara Mair, 47, Preston Circus, said: “Well from what I can see it looks good – I’m pleased they have included a cycle path. However, parking is still going to be the big concern, If they want people to walk down to the seafront they will need to sort out the parking situation.”

See the latest news headlines from The Argus:

More news from The Argus

Follow @brightonargus

The Argus: Daily Echo on Facebook - facebook.com/southerndailyecho Like us on Facebook

The Argus: Google+ Add us to your circles on Google+

Comments (59)

Please log in to enable comment sorting

12:50pm Fri 1 Feb 13

censored says...

Looks fantastic.

Don't motorists realise that with 2 northbound lanes, 2 southbound lanes AND a separate bus and taxi lane, there will be more room for traffic to flow?
Looks fantastic. Don't motorists realise that with 2 northbound lanes, 2 southbound lanes AND a separate bus and taxi lane, there will be more room for traffic to flow? censored
  • Score: 0

1:10pm Fri 1 Feb 13

brightonian57 says...

The vast majority of those who drive come in from the A23 and navigate the confusing and muddled network of roads around Valley Gardens. -----------------Whe
n it's done, they will be able to admire it from their cars, while they are stuck in the grid lock this is going to cause.
Or they will be able to avoid it completely, and take their money to other resorts that will welcome them with cheap parking and sensibly designed road systems
The vast majority of those who drive come in from the A23 and navigate the confusing and muddled network of roads around Valley Gardens. -----------------Whe n it's done, they will be able to admire it from their cars, while they are stuck in the grid lock this is going to cause. Or they will be able to avoid it completely, and take their money to other resorts that will welcome them with cheap parking and sensibly designed road systems brightonian57
  • Score: 0

1:10pm Fri 1 Feb 13

Brighton Living says...

Mmmmmm may be making the route from Preston Circus up to the A23 in to two lanes would be better as the congestion along there is stupid from 7 – 10am and then again 4 – 6pm not forgetting all day in the summer time.

Millions more visitingto Brighton but the roads are still accommodating for the 80’s.

To be green you need to have traffic flowing not at a standstill with the engines running…..

Sort the roads and traffic lights Green party as you’re not being very GREEN.
Mmmmmm may be making the route from Preston Circus up to the A23 in to two lanes would be better as the congestion along there is stupid from 7 – 10am and then again 4 – 6pm not forgetting all day in the summer time. Millions more visitingto Brighton but the roads are still accommodating for the 80’s. To be green you need to have traffic flowing not at a standstill with the engines running….. Sort the roads and traffic lights Green party as you’re not being very GREEN. Brighton Living
  • Score: 0

1:12pm Fri 1 Feb 13

Bob_The_Ferret says...

There is a mistake in the artist's impression. The road will of course be completely congested with stationary traffic.
There is a mistake in the artist's impression. The road will of course be completely congested with stationary traffic. Bob_The_Ferret
  • Score: 0

1:15pm Fri 1 Feb 13

upsidedowntuctuc says...

The map is too small to see BUT where is the money coming from???
They wont say because they do not know and have not got a clue.
I would love to update my house and gardens maybe a conservatory a water feature some decking a block paved drive New windows a green house and Gazebo
Unfortunately there's a recession on and I cannot afford to it and pay the mortgage Simple.
These will spend cash on their stupid plans without a clue where it is coming from Future councils (us the Tax payer) will be picking the tab up for years after this shower a dim memory...
Please lets all take the trouble to read these plans in detail and actually vote or comment or object or approve for once Not that it'll matter Davey will simply press ahead no matter what....
The map is too small to see BUT where is the money coming from??? They wont say because they do not know and have not got a clue. I would love to update my house and gardens maybe a conservatory a water feature some decking a block paved drive New windows a green house and Gazebo Unfortunately there's a recession on and I cannot afford to it and pay the mortgage Simple. These will spend cash on their stupid plans without a clue where it is coming from Future councils (us the Tax payer) will be picking the tab up for years after this shower a dim memory... Please lets all take the trouble to read these plans in detail and actually vote or comment or object or approve for once Not that it'll matter Davey will simply press ahead no matter what.... upsidedowntuctuc
  • Score: 0

1:28pm Fri 1 Feb 13

teaboy says...

Brilliant and about time too. Don't listen to all the moaners complaining about pedestrianisation decreases local trade. Stats show that the opposite is true. But businesses that are on the slide love to have something to blame...
Brilliant and about time too. Don't listen to all the moaners complaining about pedestrianisation decreases local trade. Stats show that the opposite is true. But businesses that are on the slide love to have something to blame... teaboy
  • Score: 0

1:31pm Fri 1 Feb 13

Chaffinch1 says...

Money matters aside, I think it looks great.

With four lanes for cars and separate bus, taxi and bike provision, I don't think it will create more congestion and I'm sure the smack heads and street drinkers will really enjoy the newly landscaped green spaces too.
Money matters aside, I think it looks great. With four lanes for cars and separate bus, taxi and bike provision, I don't think it will create more congestion and I'm sure the smack heads and street drinkers will really enjoy the newly landscaped green spaces too. Chaffinch1
  • Score: 0

1:31pm Fri 1 Feb 13

jyan says...

When budgets are being cut on essential services, is this expensive scheme really necessary to implement?
When budgets are being cut on essential services, is this expensive scheme really necessary to implement? jyan
  • Score: 0

1:33pm Fri 1 Feb 13

NickBtn says...

Ideal plan if combined with a park and ride. Oh, wait, just decided that there won't be a park and ride...
Ideal plan if combined with a park and ride. Oh, wait, just decided that there won't be a park and ride... NickBtn
  • Score: 0

1:33pm Fri 1 Feb 13

Brightonlad86 says...

So..... a 30 second advert for 30 second clip of a poor quality clip of wind and rain and a few cars... Thought it might give me a bit of an interactive 'tour' of the plans....

What a waste of time!!!
So..... a 30 second advert for 30 second clip of a poor quality clip of wind and rain and a few cars... Thought it might give me a bit of an interactive 'tour' of the plans.... What a waste of time!!! Brightonlad86
  • Score: 0

1:33pm Fri 1 Feb 13

Lynne Hazelden says...

Surely money is needed for people based support vs this kind of plan? Hospital, carers, schools sports progammes as no money for teachers i heard of, elderly homes, nurses health support and services for those neding help... Just saying... Not just here but concils every where need to put such big plans not criticle asside?
Surely money is needed for people based support vs this kind of plan? Hospital, carers, schools sports progammes as no money for teachers i heard of, elderly homes, nurses health support and services for those neding help... Just saying... Not just here but concils every where need to put such big plans not criticle asside? Lynne Hazelden
  • Score: 0

1:51pm Fri 1 Feb 13

Bob_The_Ferret says...

They seem to have missed the opportunity to include demolishing St. Peter's church and replacing it with a monument to Marx.
They seem to have missed the opportunity to include demolishing St. Peter's church and replacing it with a monument to Marx. Bob_The_Ferret
  • Score: 0

1:56pm Fri 1 Feb 13

charlie smirke says...

Maybe this idea has some merit, separating the cars from buses and bikes. Surely we need a park and ride with much better transport into the town. A new tram system would be great, I think other places have them?
BUT, we surely cannot afford this?? not at the moment anyway. I am very concerned that the Greens are going to bankrupt Brighton with alll their fancy and expensive schemes.
Maybe this idea has some merit, separating the cars from buses and bikes. Surely we need a park and ride with much better transport into the town. A new tram system would be great, I think other places have them? BUT, we surely cannot afford this?? not at the moment anyway. I am very concerned that the Greens are going to bankrupt Brighton with alll their fancy and expensive schemes. charlie smirke
  • Score: 0

2:08pm Fri 1 Feb 13

HJarrs says...

Lynne Hazelden wrote:
Surely money is needed for people based support vs this kind of plan? Hospital, carers, schools sports progammes as no money for teachers i heard of, elderly homes, nurses health support and services for those neding help... Just saying... Not just here but concils every where need to put such big plans not criticle asside?
I am sure they all can apply to the govenrment's Better Bus Areas scheme for funding, which seems to be the source of the majority of funding.
[quote][p][bold]Lynne Hazelden[/bold] wrote: Surely money is needed for people based support vs this kind of plan? Hospital, carers, schools sports progammes as no money for teachers i heard of, elderly homes, nurses health support and services for those neding help... Just saying... Not just here but concils every where need to put such big plans not criticle asside?[/p][/quote]I am sure they all can apply to the govenrment's Better Bus Areas scheme for funding, which seems to be the source of the majority of funding. HJarrs
  • Score: 0

2:24pm Fri 1 Feb 13

Jimmy Stewart's Imaginary Rabbit says...

Two points:

1 - It's NOT a 'Gateway'! A gateway is at the entrance! Jeez, how many more times?

2 - Do not even THINK of cutting down any of the healthy mature Elm trees, they are virtually unique in Britain.
Two points: 1 - It's NOT a 'Gateway'! A gateway is at the entrance! Jeez, how many more times? 2 - Do not even THINK of cutting down any of the healthy mature Elm trees, they are virtually unique in Britain. Jimmy Stewart's Imaginary Rabbit
  • Score: 0

2:25pm Fri 1 Feb 13

Jimmy Stewart's Imaginary Rabbit says...

Oh, and a third point: There is NO WAY will the finished product look anything like the artist's impression, not unless bubonic plague has wiped out vast swathes of the population.
Oh, and a third point: There is NO WAY will the finished product look anything like the artist's impression, not unless bubonic plague has wiped out vast swathes of the population. Jimmy Stewart's Imaginary Rabbit
  • Score: 0

2:26pm Fri 1 Feb 13

668 The neighbour of the beast says...

Surprised nobody noticed the DeLorean in the picture. It appears to be attempting to leave Brighton in a hurry.

Dr. Emmett Lathrop "Doc" Brown, Ph.D., the fictional character in the Back to the Future trilogy was quoted as saying "The whole 'back to the future thing' was just a story. Jeez Guys: how the hell did you manage to take the whole of Brighton back to 1973 whilst increasing pollution levels amidst some ludicrous bicycle-fetish? and more importantly, why on earth would you do this? You already had Hastings...why did you need another one?" "Where are the visitors and shops?" "I thought I was crazy..."

When informed about the Green Party, Doc Brown was believed to have mumbled "Cripes, I knew we shouldn't have made up the stuff about cars running on garbage - some kids just don't grow up".
He then appeared to accelerate away at speeds of almost 20mph saying he would try and "sort things out with Stalin".
Surprised nobody noticed the DeLorean in the picture. It appears to be attempting to leave Brighton in a hurry. Dr. Emmett Lathrop "Doc" Brown, Ph.D., the fictional character in the Back to the Future trilogy was quoted as saying "The whole 'back to the future thing' was just a story. Jeez Guys: how the hell did you manage to take the whole of Brighton back to 1973 whilst increasing pollution levels amidst some ludicrous bicycle-fetish? and more importantly, why on earth would you do this? You already had Hastings...why did you need another one?" "Where are the visitors and shops?" "I thought I was crazy..." When informed about the Green Party, Doc Brown was believed to have mumbled "Cripes, I knew we shouldn't have made up the stuff about cars running on garbage - some kids just don't grow up". He then appeared to accelerate away at speeds of almost 20mph saying he would try and "sort things out with Stalin". 668 The neighbour of the beast
  • Score: 0

2:31pm Fri 1 Feb 13

Crystal Ball says...

668 The neighbour of the beast wrote:
Surprised nobody noticed the DeLorean in the picture. It appears to be attempting to leave Brighton in a hurry.

Dr. Emmett Lathrop "Doc" Brown, Ph.D., the fictional character in the Back to the Future trilogy was quoted as saying "The whole 'back to the future thing' was just a story. Jeez Guys: how the hell did you manage to take the whole of Brighton back to 1973 whilst increasing pollution levels amidst some ludicrous bicycle-fetish? and more importantly, why on earth would you do this? You already had Hastings...why did you need another one?" "Where are the visitors and shops?" "I thought I was crazy..."

When informed about the Green Party, Doc Brown was believed to have mumbled "Cripes, I knew we shouldn't have made up the stuff about cars running on garbage - some kids just don't grow up".
He then appeared to accelerate away at speeds of almost 20mph saying he would try and "sort things out with Stalin".
1.21 gigawatts?! Where am I going to get that sort of power?
[quote][p][bold]668 The neighbour of the beast[/bold] wrote: Surprised nobody noticed the DeLorean in the picture. It appears to be attempting to leave Brighton in a hurry. Dr. Emmett Lathrop "Doc" Brown, Ph.D., the fictional character in the Back to the Future trilogy was quoted as saying "The whole 'back to the future thing' was just a story. Jeez Guys: how the hell did you manage to take the whole of Brighton back to 1973 whilst increasing pollution levels amidst some ludicrous bicycle-fetish? and more importantly, why on earth would you do this? You already had Hastings...why did you need another one?" "Where are the visitors and shops?" "I thought I was crazy..." When informed about the Green Party, Doc Brown was believed to have mumbled "Cripes, I knew we shouldn't have made up the stuff about cars running on garbage - some kids just don't grow up". He then appeared to accelerate away at speeds of almost 20mph saying he would try and "sort things out with Stalin".[/p][/quote]1.21 gigawatts?! Where am I going to get that sort of power? Crystal Ball
  • Score: 0

2:45pm Fri 1 Feb 13

Joshiman says...

Traffic flowing freely through Brighton.
Which Brighton are you on about.?.Our so called planning experts are clueless.Too many traffic lights ,always out of sequence wherever you are.its a stop start traffic flowing system .Its a laugh for the controllers sitting by their computors,watching frustrated motorists.The new traffic lights installed on the seafront(Regency Sq) In fact everywhere you go its a CO2 nightmare city.New Nickname for Brighton "love CO2 "Drive in Brighton.
Traffic flowing freely through Brighton. Which Brighton are you on about.?.Our so called planning experts are clueless.Too many traffic lights ,always out of sequence wherever you are.its a stop start traffic flowing system .Its a laugh for the controllers sitting by their computors,watching frustrated motorists.The new traffic lights installed on the seafront(Regency Sq) In fact everywhere you go its a CO2 nightmare city.New Nickname for Brighton "love CO2 "Drive in Brighton. Joshiman
  • Score: 0

2:50pm Fri 1 Feb 13

bogs says...

I can't see any vagrant's in the picture or empty cans of special brew?
I can't see any vagrant's in the picture or empty cans of special brew? bogs
  • Score: 0

2:58pm Fri 1 Feb 13

PJW Brighton says...

As a business owner and employer in Marlborough Place, I look forward to this redevelopment. I understand that most of the work will be grant funded from outside of BHCC's budgets, but this is the kind of improvement I pay my business rates and taxes for.This part of the city should not be all about cars and can be used to attract visitors and provide leisure/recreation.
As a business owner and employer in Marlborough Place, I look forward to this redevelopment. I understand that most of the work will be grant funded from outside of BHCC's budgets, but this is the kind of improvement I pay my business rates and taxes for.This part of the city should not be all about cars and can be used to attract visitors and provide leisure/recreation. PJW Brighton
  • Score: 0

3:33pm Fri 1 Feb 13

NickBtn says...

PJW Brighton wrote:
As a business owner and employer in Marlborough Place, I look forward to this redevelopment. I understand that most of the work will be grant funded from outside of BHCC's budgets, but this is the kind of improvement I pay my business rates and taxes for.This part of the city should not be all about cars and can be used to attract visitors and provide leisure/recreation.
I agree - this central area should be improved. However it's being proposed in isolation

Like it or not, most tourists do arrive into Brighton this way. So an ideal plan would include an alternative eg. park and ride, another route in for tourists perhaps via a less central route. But this hasn't been done - so won't really change unless we put off the tourists which isn't in anyone's interest....
[quote][p][bold]PJW Brighton[/bold] wrote: As a business owner and employer in Marlborough Place, I look forward to this redevelopment. I understand that most of the work will be grant funded from outside of BHCC's budgets, but this is the kind of improvement I pay my business rates and taxes for.This part of the city should not be all about cars and can be used to attract visitors and provide leisure/recreation.[/p][/quote]I agree - this central area should be improved. However it's being proposed in isolation Like it or not, most tourists do arrive into Brighton this way. So an ideal plan would include an alternative eg. park and ride, another route in for tourists perhaps via a less central route. But this hasn't been done - so won't really change unless we put off the tourists which isn't in anyone's interest.... NickBtn
  • Score: 0

3:49pm Fri 1 Feb 13

HJarrs says...

NickBtn wrote:
PJW Brighton wrote:
As a business owner and employer in Marlborough Place, I look forward to this redevelopment. I understand that most of the work will be grant funded from outside of BHCC's budgets, but this is the kind of improvement I pay my business rates and taxes for.This part of the city should not be all about cars and can be used to attract visitors and provide leisure/recreation.
I agree - this central area should be improved. However it's being proposed in isolation

Like it or not, most tourists do arrive into Brighton this way. So an ideal plan would include an alternative eg. park and ride, another route in for tourists perhaps via a less central route. But this hasn't been done - so won't really change unless we put off the tourists which isn't in anyone's interest....
Why do you people keep rabbiting on about tourists? Have you ever driven into Brighton off the A23 on a sunny summers day? People are willing to queue for an hour or more already without a park and ride. This development will not make one jot of difference to their journey time.

Also, you can hardly say that this development is in isolation as it links to other developments underway in the South / North Laine areas, Brighton Station and Lewes Rd.

Personally, I would look to leave the dual carriageway on the East side as it is today except for making it shared space; this would leave a larger part of the gardens intact and save a bag of money on new road building. Otherwise, the proposal has promise.
[quote][p][bold]NickBtn[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]PJW Brighton[/bold] wrote: As a business owner and employer in Marlborough Place, I look forward to this redevelopment. I understand that most of the work will be grant funded from outside of BHCC's budgets, but this is the kind of improvement I pay my business rates and taxes for.This part of the city should not be all about cars and can be used to attract visitors and provide leisure/recreation.[/p][/quote]I agree - this central area should be improved. However it's being proposed in isolation Like it or not, most tourists do arrive into Brighton this way. So an ideal plan would include an alternative eg. park and ride, another route in for tourists perhaps via a less central route. But this hasn't been done - so won't really change unless we put off the tourists which isn't in anyone's interest....[/p][/quote]Why do you people keep rabbiting on about tourists? Have you ever driven into Brighton off the A23 on a sunny summers day? People are willing to queue for an hour or more already without a park and ride. This development will not make one jot of difference to their journey time. Also, you can hardly say that this development is in isolation as it links to other developments underway in the South / North Laine areas, Brighton Station and Lewes Rd. Personally, I would look to leave the dual carriageway on the East side as it is today except for making it shared space; this would leave a larger part of the gardens intact and save a bag of money on new road building. Otherwise, the proposal has promise. HJarrs
  • Score: 0

4:25pm Fri 1 Feb 13

Phani Tikkala says...

HJarrs wrote:
NickBtn wrote:
PJW Brighton wrote:
As a business owner and employer in Marlborough Place, I look forward to this redevelopment. I understand that most of the work will be grant funded from outside of BHCC's budgets, but this is the kind of improvement I pay my business rates and taxes for.This part of the city should not be all about cars and can be used to attract visitors and provide leisure/recreation.
I agree - this central area should be improved. However it's being proposed in isolation

Like it or not, most tourists do arrive into Brighton this way. So an ideal plan would include an alternative eg. park and ride, another route in for tourists perhaps via a less central route. But this hasn't been done - so won't really change unless we put off the tourists which isn't in anyone's interest....
Why do you people keep rabbiting on about tourists? Have you ever driven into Brighton off the A23 on a sunny summers day? People are willing to queue for an hour or more already without a park and ride. This development will not make one jot of difference to their journey time.

Also, you can hardly say that this development is in isolation as it links to other developments underway in the South / North Laine areas, Brighton Station and Lewes Rd.

Personally, I would look to leave the dual carriageway on the East side as it is today except for making it shared space; this would leave a larger part of the gardens intact and save a bag of money on new road building. Otherwise, the proposal has promise.
Hello Jason, or is it Ian?
[quote][p][bold]HJarrs[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]NickBtn[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]PJW Brighton[/bold] wrote: As a business owner and employer in Marlborough Place, I look forward to this redevelopment. I understand that most of the work will be grant funded from outside of BHCC's budgets, but this is the kind of improvement I pay my business rates and taxes for.This part of the city should not be all about cars and can be used to attract visitors and provide leisure/recreation.[/p][/quote]I agree - this central area should be improved. However it's being proposed in isolation Like it or not, most tourists do arrive into Brighton this way. So an ideal plan would include an alternative eg. park and ride, another route in for tourists perhaps via a less central route. But this hasn't been done - so won't really change unless we put off the tourists which isn't in anyone's interest....[/p][/quote]Why do you people keep rabbiting on about tourists? Have you ever driven into Brighton off the A23 on a sunny summers day? People are willing to queue for an hour or more already without a park and ride. This development will not make one jot of difference to their journey time. Also, you can hardly say that this development is in isolation as it links to other developments underway in the South / North Laine areas, Brighton Station and Lewes Rd. Personally, I would look to leave the dual carriageway on the East side as it is today except for making it shared space; this would leave a larger part of the gardens intact and save a bag of money on new road building. Otherwise, the proposal has promise.[/p][/quote]Hello Jason, or is it Ian? Phani Tikkala
  • Score: 0

4:26pm Fri 1 Feb 13

leobrighton says...

Just get on and do it now please!!!!

Asking the public is just a waste of time and money and will end up with nothing being done. What is the point in the council employing educated experts to plan things when they end up asking just about any idiot what they think. As we all know everybody wants their own interests looked after so consulting the public will achieve nothing.
Just get on and do it now please!!!! Asking the public is just a waste of time and money and will end up with nothing being done. What is the point in the council employing educated experts to plan things when they end up asking just about any idiot what they think. As we all know everybody wants their own interests looked after so consulting the public will achieve nothing. leobrighton
  • Score: 0

4:36pm Fri 1 Feb 13

Wooton Basset says...

Plans to Eradicate the city’s main gateway have been revealed.....
Plans to Eradicate the city’s main gateway have been revealed..... Wooton Basset
  • Score: 0

4:37pm Fri 1 Feb 13

Jimmy Stewart's Imaginary Rabbit says...

HJarrs: We keep 'rabbiting on about tourists' because Brighton is a tourist destination and quite a few jobs in the city depend on it. You are quite right about the traffic queues on the A23, so the emphasis should be on trying make it easier for people to visit. If this scheme will do that then I'm in favour. (Either that or place armed guards by the pylons on the A23 and machine-gun every third car trying to get in. That'll keep the traffic down).

PS - I notice in the illustration that the cyclist is about to go through the red light!
HJarrs: We keep 'rabbiting on about tourists' because Brighton is a tourist destination and quite a few jobs in the city depend on it. You are quite right about the traffic queues on the A23, so the emphasis should be on trying make it easier for people to visit. If this scheme will do that then I'm in favour. (Either that or place armed guards by the pylons on the A23 and machine-gun every third car trying to get in. That'll keep the traffic down). PS - I notice in the illustration that the cyclist is about to go through the red light! Jimmy Stewart's Imaginary Rabbit
  • Score: 0

4:43pm Fri 1 Feb 13

Crystal Ball says...

Jimmy Stewart's Imaginary Rabbit wrote:
HJarrs: We keep 'rabbiting on about tourists' because Brighton is a tourist destination and quite a few jobs in the city depend on it. You are quite right about the traffic queues on the A23, so the emphasis should be on trying make it easier for people to visit. If this scheme will do that then I'm in favour. (Either that or place armed guards by the pylons on the A23 and machine-gun every third car trying to get in. That'll keep the traffic down).

PS - I notice in the illustration that the cyclist is about to go through the red light!
It's an accurate representation of what will happen then.
[quote][p][bold]Jimmy Stewart's Imaginary Rabbit[/bold] wrote: HJarrs: We keep 'rabbiting on about tourists' because Brighton is a tourist destination and quite a few jobs in the city depend on it. You are quite right about the traffic queues on the A23, so the emphasis should be on trying make it easier for people to visit. If this scheme will do that then I'm in favour. (Either that or place armed guards by the pylons on the A23 and machine-gun every third car trying to get in. That'll keep the traffic down). PS - I notice in the illustration that the cyclist is about to go through the red light![/p][/quote]It's an accurate representation of what will happen then. Crystal Ball
  • Score: 0

4:44pm Fri 1 Feb 13

censored says...

Rather than just moaning, could someone please explain how this will INCREASE congestion? There will be the same number of traffic lanes as there is now, but buses will be removed from the southernmost section.

It already takes an hour to drive in on a busy day, and no this won't improve that. But it won't make it worse either.

Yes, we do need a park and ride, but that's a separate issue. The area needs improvement and this will be much more pleasant and accessible.

So, simple question to militant motorists. How will this plan make the roads worse?
Rather than just moaning, could someone please explain how this will INCREASE congestion? There will be the same number of traffic lanes as there is now, but buses will be removed from the southernmost section. It already takes an hour to drive in on a busy day, and no this won't improve that. But it won't make it worse either. Yes, we do need a park and ride, but that's a separate issue. The area needs improvement and this will be much more pleasant and accessible. So, simple question to militant motorists. How will this plan make the roads worse? censored
  • Score: 0

5:06pm Fri 1 Feb 13

bluemonday says...

so two lanes north,2 lanes south from the pier to the level,with a bus lane aswell,sorry but is'nt that how it is now,just move the stupid roadworks by the entrance to the steine bus stops(which i've never seen anyone working on)and the might help the flow
so two lanes north,2 lanes south from the pier to the level,with a bus lane aswell,sorry but is'nt that how it is now,just move the stupid roadworks by the entrance to the steine bus stops(which i've never seen anyone working on)and the might help the flow bluemonday
  • Score: 0

5:13pm Fri 1 Feb 13

Falmer Wizard says...

Agree with Lynn and Charlie whilst everything is being cut to the bone the council should be considering how to assist those who are being most affected they come up this scheme,which of course is on top of their expensive plans for altering the roads around the Railway station.What is needed to keep tourists visiting is REDUCE PARKING CHARGES,...Simple!
Thank goodness the present party will not be in office long enough to see these plans through.
Agree with Lynn and Charlie whilst everything is being cut to the bone the council should be considering how to assist those who are being most affected they come up this scheme,which of course is on top of their expensive plans for altering the roads around the Railway station.What is needed to keep tourists visiting is REDUCE PARKING CHARGES,...Simple! Thank goodness the present party will not be in office long enough to see these plans through. Falmer Wizard
  • Score: 0

6:14pm Fri 1 Feb 13

terrace cred. says...

not too sure waht happens down by the pier. will we be saying goodbye to that wonderful roundabout? still, look on the brighter side - the argus still calls the palace pier the palace pier (though the council plans succumb to the 'brighton pier' nonsense)! good on you, argus
not too sure waht happens down by the pier. will we be saying goodbye to that wonderful roundabout? still, look on the brighter side - the argus still calls the palace pier the palace pier (though the council plans succumb to the 'brighton pier' nonsense)! good on you, argus terrace cred.
  • Score: 0

6:47pm Fri 1 Feb 13

censored says...

bluemonday wrote:
so two lanes north,2 lanes south from the pier to the level,with a bus lane aswell,sorry but is'nt that how it is now,just move the stupid roadworks by the entrance to the steine bus stops(which i've never seen anyone working on)and the might help the flow
It's not supposed to help the traffic flow. It's supposed to create a better and more useful environment for people, without affecting the flow at all.
[quote][p][bold]bluemonday[/bold] wrote: so two lanes north,2 lanes south from the pier to the level,with a bus lane aswell,sorry but is'nt that how it is now,just move the stupid roadworks by the entrance to the steine bus stops(which i've never seen anyone working on)and the might help the flow[/p][/quote]It's not supposed to help the traffic flow. It's supposed to create a better and more useful environment for people, without affecting the flow at all. censored
  • Score: 0

7:36pm Fri 1 Feb 13

rolivan says...

Before they start digging I hope they know where the Main Sewer is
Before they start digging I hope they know where the Main Sewer is rolivan
  • Score: 0

7:41pm Fri 1 Feb 13

Cgull says...

At least the drunks and smack heads will have plenty more space to see out the days now.
At least the drunks and smack heads will have plenty more space to see out the days now. Cgull
  • Score: 0

10:23pm Fri 1 Feb 13

ARealBessie says...

Another time, another date, and another money wasting bogus consultation.

After we're informed that this doc is the 'proposed traffic MASTERPLAN'... "Mr Mayor added that the plans were still just a concept and by no means set in stone”.

No Mr Mayor. These 'plans' were just a 'concept' and 'by no means set in stone' back in at least 2006 - right alongside the council's plan to move The Level's skate park onto the open green. That was the time to have publicly 'consulted' had the council been remotely interested in what residents might have had to say.

The 'concept' has now evolved to 'masterplan' stage and the rest is mere formality (such as ticking the 'public consultation' box; a pesky legal requirement needed by funders in order to release public cash) .
In other words, contrary to Mr Mayor's assertions, these plans are as good as set in stone regardless of whatever anyone thinks of them.

.
Another time, another date, and another money wasting bogus consultation. After we're informed that this doc is the 'proposed traffic MASTERPLAN'... "Mr Mayor added that the plans were still just a concept and by no means set in stone”. No Mr Mayor. These 'plans' were just a 'concept' and 'by no means set in stone' back in at least 2006 - right alongside the council's plan to move The Level's skate park onto the open green. That was the time to have publicly 'consulted' had the council been remotely interested in what residents might have had to say. The 'concept' has now evolved to 'masterplan' stage and the rest is mere formality (such as ticking the 'public consultation' box; a pesky legal requirement needed by funders in order to release public cash) . In other words, contrary to Mr Mayor's assertions, these plans are as good as set in stone regardless of whatever anyone thinks of them. . ARealBessie
  • Score: 0

12:29am Sat 2 Feb 13

ArgusReader100 says...

Always a cost to the taxpayers! I've lived in Brighton my whole life, it's where my family love, yet the council an greens seem to be pushing brightonians away! It used to be cheaper to travel by bus yet now the costs are so expensive and always cheaper, at times it's easier for me to get a lift into work! I like as well how bus lanes are created for buses an the road for other vehicles...yet by the lights at the bottom of Edward st driving from the north when the lights in the bus lanes turn red, the buses take it upon themselves to move across to go through lights that other vehicles should be using! Money needs to stop being wasted and used wisely! STOP getting greedy
Always a cost to the taxpayers! I've lived in Brighton my whole life, it's where my family love, yet the council an greens seem to be pushing brightonians away! It used to be cheaper to travel by bus yet now the costs are so expensive and always cheaper, at times it's easier for me to get a lift into work! I like as well how bus lanes are created for buses an the road for other vehicles...yet by the lights at the bottom of Edward st driving from the north when the lights in the bus lanes turn red, the buses take it upon themselves to move across to go through lights that other vehicles should be using! Money needs to stop being wasted and used wisely! STOP getting greedy ArgusReader100
  • Score: 0

1:08am Sat 2 Feb 13

Mr P Brown says...

censored wrote:
Rather than just moaning, could someone please explain how this will INCREASE congestion? There will be the same number of traffic lanes as there is now, but buses will be removed from the southernmost section.

It already takes an hour to drive in on a busy day, and no this won't improve that. But it won't make it worse either.

Yes, we do need a park and ride, but that's a separate issue. The area needs improvement and this will be much more pleasant and accessible.

So, simple question to militant motorists. How will this plan make the roads worse?
It probably won't make them any worse, but it's a very expensive way to not make them any better, and as a few people have pointed out what happens when they get to the Palace Pier roundabout? As they do now they sit there and wait for the tiny gap that appears in the West East traffic, and the go for it, in other words zilch.
[quote][p][bold]censored[/bold] wrote: Rather than just moaning, could someone please explain how this will INCREASE congestion? There will be the same number of traffic lanes as there is now, but buses will be removed from the southernmost section. It already takes an hour to drive in on a busy day, and no this won't improve that. But it won't make it worse either. Yes, we do need a park and ride, but that's a separate issue. The area needs improvement and this will be much more pleasant and accessible. So, simple question to militant motorists. How will this plan make the roads worse?[/p][/quote]It probably won't make them any worse, but it's a very expensive way to not make them any better, and as a few people have pointed out what happens when they get to the Palace Pier roundabout? As they do now they sit there and wait for the tiny gap that appears in the West East traffic, and the go for it, in other words zilch. Mr P Brown
  • Score: 0

3:33am Sat 2 Feb 13

Athena says...

I can't believe this Green council intend to rid this town of so much green space right at its heart and in a historic parkland area which has remained almost unchanged for the past 200 years or more. Would it not be simpler to make both sides one-way? One-way north from the Steine to the Level and one-way south from the Level to the Steine?
I can't believe this Green council intend to rid this town of so much green space right at its heart and in a historic parkland area which has remained almost unchanged for the past 200 years or more. Would it not be simpler to make both sides one-way? One-way north from the Steine to the Level and one-way south from the Level to the Steine? Athena
  • Score: 0

8:09am Sat 2 Feb 13

Sussex jim says...

There has been a park and ride system in operation since the birth of the motor car. It's called a railway.
There has been a park and ride system in operation since the birth of the motor car. It's called a railway. Sussex jim
  • Score: 0

8:32am Sat 2 Feb 13

Jimmy Stewart's Imaginary Rabbit says...

Sussex jim wrote:
There has been a park and ride system in operation since the birth of the motor car. It's called a railway.
Bit of a fatuous comment there. The trains are overcrowded and also not 100% reliable. I know because I use them, indeed I rely on them as I don't own a car. Hence the need to provide alternatives to reduce the pressure on the railways. (And we should also press for increased rail capacity, but that's for another day).
[quote][p][bold]Sussex jim[/bold] wrote: There has been a park and ride system in operation since the birth of the motor car. It's called a railway.[/p][/quote]Bit of a fatuous comment there. The trains are overcrowded and also not 100% reliable. I know because I use them, indeed I rely on them as I don't own a car. Hence the need to provide alternatives to reduce the pressure on the railways. (And we should also press for increased rail capacity, but that's for another day). Jimmy Stewart's Imaginary Rabbit
  • Score: 0

9:37am Sat 2 Feb 13

Maxwell's Ghost says...

I have to salute those regular train users. I have commuted for a week and shambolic even fails to communicate how poor the public transport is.
The trains were late every day with dreadful delays when one broke down at Hassocks. I couldn't catch a bus from my estate because the Lewes Road scheme has left the one service which serves it useless. The timetable is non existent.
I live near the city centre so took to running to the station and then taking a train to Victoria.
Two hours on average each day one way at a huge cost.
It's no wonder that people just won't get out of their cars. In Friday my neighbour and I car shared to Gatwick and caught the Gatwick Express which was much easier.
It's a shame.
I have to salute those regular train users. I have commuted for a week and shambolic even fails to communicate how poor the public transport is. The trains were late every day with dreadful delays when one broke down at Hassocks. I couldn't catch a bus from my estate because the Lewes Road scheme has left the one service which serves it useless. The timetable is non existent. I live near the city centre so took to running to the station and then taking a train to Victoria. Two hours on average each day one way at a huge cost. It's no wonder that people just won't get out of their cars. In Friday my neighbour and I car shared to Gatwick and caught the Gatwick Express which was much easier. It's a shame. Maxwell's Ghost
  • Score: 0

10:55am Sat 2 Feb 13

Athena says...

Sussex jim wrote:
There has been a park and ride system in operation since the birth of the motor car. It's called a railway.
The railway serves a different function to a motor car. A car has a boot, which contains all the family paraphernalia for the beach and/or pic-nick, the baby's essentials or granny's zimmer-frame or all the shopping. In other words, the train is too impractical for some journeys. Plus the it is expensive, crowded or badly-run. And for holiday-makers, it is inconvenient for those who want to drive around the Sussex countryside on their Brighton-based holiday, much of which is inaccessible by train.
[quote][p][bold]Sussex jim[/bold] wrote: There has been a park and ride system in operation since the birth of the motor car. It's called a railway.[/p][/quote]The railway serves a different function to a motor car. A car has a boot, which contains all the family paraphernalia for the beach and/or pic-nick, the baby's essentials or granny's zimmer-frame or all the shopping. In other words, the train is too impractical for some journeys. Plus the it is expensive, crowded or badly-run. And for holiday-makers, it is inconvenient for those who want to drive around the Sussex countryside on their Brighton-based holiday, much of which is inaccessible by train. Athena
  • Score: 0

12:08pm Sat 2 Feb 13

guitarmanzz says...

censored wrote:
Rather than just moaning, could someone please explain how this will INCREASE congestion? There will be the same number of traffic lanes as there is now, but buses will be removed from the southernmost section.

It already takes an hour to drive in on a busy day, and no this won't improve that. But it won't make it worse either.

Yes, we do need a park and ride, but that's a separate issue. The area needs improvement and this will be much more pleasant and accessible.

So, simple question to militant motorists. How will this plan make the roads worse?
Well censored take a look at old Shoreham road>Lewes road>Regency Square all areas where traffic once flowed freely and now has huge jams permanantely because of kitkat and Daveys obsession of creating jams and ruining our city..this will be the icing on the cake for jam city..like ive said im all for reducing congestion and improvements but dont engineer this choas..if they want to ban the car car completely then fair enough just bulid a car park at the Pylons and have trains n buses from there but dont make life worse especially if you have no choice and have to drive for a living around the city...
[quote][p][bold]censored[/bold] wrote: Rather than just moaning, could someone please explain how this will INCREASE congestion? There will be the same number of traffic lanes as there is now, but buses will be removed from the southernmost section. It already takes an hour to drive in on a busy day, and no this won't improve that. But it won't make it worse either. Yes, we do need a park and ride, but that's a separate issue. The area needs improvement and this will be much more pleasant and accessible. So, simple question to militant motorists. How will this plan make the roads worse?[/p][/quote]Well censored take a look at old Shoreham road>Lewes road>Regency Square all areas where traffic once flowed freely and now has huge jams permanantely because of kitkat and Daveys obsession of creating jams and ruining our city..this will be the icing on the cake for jam city..like ive said im all for reducing congestion and improvements but dont engineer this choas..if they want to ban the car car completely then fair enough just bulid a car park at the Pylons and have trains n buses from there but dont make life worse especially if you have no choice and have to drive for a living around the city... guitarmanzz
  • Score: 0

12:49pm Sat 2 Feb 13

Hove Actually says...

censored wrote:
Rather than just moaning, could someone please explain how this will INCREASE congestion?

Half the road, priority at junctions and loss of kerb space all given to the buses

100% of the traffic given half the road to use

Can you see what will be the end result yet? because Kitcrap doesn't care, he never has Brighton & Hove's interests anywhere near any dictate he issues
censored wrote: Rather than just moaning, could someone please explain how this will INCREASE congestion? Half the road, priority at junctions and loss of kerb space all given to the buses 100% of the traffic given half the road to use Can you see what will be the end result yet? because Kitcrap doesn't care, he never has Brighton & Hove's interests anywhere near any dictate he issues Hove Actually
  • Score: 0

2:53pm Sat 2 Feb 13

Beethoven says...

Has anybody thought about the residents of North Laine?

Hell's bells! I used to live near the bottom end of North Road, if I read the poor map correctly, it would make access very much harder. Do they want to live among all the "community events?"

Much as I miss Brighton, it makes me glad that I moved out when I did
Has anybody thought about the residents of North Laine? Hell's bells! I used to live near the bottom end of North Road, if I read the poor map correctly, it would make access very much harder. Do they want to live among all the "community events?" Much as I miss Brighton, it makes me glad that I moved out when I did Beethoven
  • Score: 0

6:43pm Sat 2 Feb 13

ghost bus driver says...

Jimmy Stewart's Imaginary Rabbit wrote:
Oh, and a third point: There is NO WAY will the finished product look anything like the artist's impression, not unless bubonic plague has wiped out vast swathes of the population.
No they've all left because of the greens. ;)
[quote][p][bold]Jimmy Stewart's Imaginary Rabbit[/bold] wrote: Oh, and a third point: There is NO WAY will the finished product look anything like the artist's impression, not unless bubonic plague has wiped out vast swathes of the population.[/p][/quote]No they've all left because of the greens. ;) ghost bus driver
  • Score: 0

6:57pm Sat 2 Feb 13

Sussex jim says...

Athena wrote:
Sussex jim wrote:
There has been a park and ride system in operation since the birth of the motor car. It's called a railway.
The railway serves a different function to a motor car. A car has a boot, which contains all the family paraphernalia for the beach and/or pic-nick, the baby's essentials or granny's zimmer-frame or all the shopping. In other words, the train is too impractical for some journeys. Plus the it is expensive, crowded or badly-run. And for holiday-makers, it is inconvenient for those who want to drive around the Sussex countryside on their Brighton-based holiday, much of which is inaccessible by train.
I quite agree that a car serves different purposes. But the three railways that run into Brighton do already make an excellent park and ride system for those travelling in without luggage or other goods, and can park near London Road, Preston Park or Hove stations; or perhaps further out.
[quote][p][bold]Athena[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Sussex jim[/bold] wrote: There has been a park and ride system in operation since the birth of the motor car. It's called a railway.[/p][/quote]The railway serves a different function to a motor car. A car has a boot, which contains all the family paraphernalia for the beach and/or pic-nick, the baby's essentials or granny's zimmer-frame or all the shopping. In other words, the train is too impractical for some journeys. Plus the it is expensive, crowded or badly-run. And for holiday-makers, it is inconvenient for those who want to drive around the Sussex countryside on their Brighton-based holiday, much of which is inaccessible by train.[/p][/quote]I quite agree that a car serves different purposes. But the three railways that run into Brighton do already make an excellent park and ride system for those travelling in without luggage or other goods, and can park near London Road, Preston Park or Hove stations; or perhaps further out. Sussex jim
  • Score: 0

8:15pm Sat 2 Feb 13

Bob_The_Ferret says...

Sussex jim wrote:
Athena wrote:
Sussex jim wrote:
There has been a park and ride system in operation since the birth of the motor car. It's called a railway.
The railway serves a different function to a motor car. A car has a boot, which contains all the family paraphernalia for the beach and/or pic-nick, the baby's essentials or granny's zimmer-frame or all the shopping. In other words, the train is too impractical for some journeys. Plus the it is expensive, crowded or badly-run. And for holiday-makers, it is inconvenient for those who want to drive around the Sussex countryside on their Brighton-based holiday, much of which is inaccessible by train.
I quite agree that a car serves different purposes. But the three railways that run into Brighton do already make an excellent park and ride system for those travelling in without luggage or other goods, and can park near London Road, Preston Park or Hove stations; or perhaps further out.
London road, Preston Park & Hove stations are all in controlled parking zones, so you can't park all day, and you have to pay handsomely for the privilege, so you may as well continue all the way to your final destination, pay extortionately there and save the hassle and additional cost of waiting for a train.

A proper rail based park and ride would need a station with a suitably large amount free parking on the outskirts of town - the obvious place being Waterhall, on the A23/A27 junction, with a frequent shuttle into the central station. Such a station on the mainline could also double as a commuter parkway station, easing pressures from commuters travelling across town the the central station and Preston Park. Unfortunately, we don't currently have the calibre of politicians to make this happen - just ones who would rather plough up the historic city centre gardens to make way for a series of bus & bike lanes and whose idea of an integrated transport exchange is to remove taxi access to the station and to squeeze the roads down so much that buses and cars can't get anywhere near in a timely manner. They preach that you should get on a bike, which you then can't even take on the train!
[quote][p][bold]Sussex jim[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Athena[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Sussex jim[/bold] wrote: There has been a park and ride system in operation since the birth of the motor car. It's called a railway.[/p][/quote]The railway serves a different function to a motor car. A car has a boot, which contains all the family paraphernalia for the beach and/or pic-nick, the baby's essentials or granny's zimmer-frame or all the shopping. In other words, the train is too impractical for some journeys. Plus the it is expensive, crowded or badly-run. And for holiday-makers, it is inconvenient for those who want to drive around the Sussex countryside on their Brighton-based holiday, much of which is inaccessible by train.[/p][/quote]I quite agree that a car serves different purposes. But the three railways that run into Brighton do already make an excellent park and ride system for those travelling in without luggage or other goods, and can park near London Road, Preston Park or Hove stations; or perhaps further out.[/p][/quote]London road, Preston Park & Hove stations are all in controlled parking zones, so you can't park all day, and you have to pay handsomely for the privilege, so you may as well continue all the way to your final destination, pay extortionately there and save the hassle and additional cost of waiting for a train. A proper rail based park and ride would need a station with a suitably large amount free parking on the outskirts of town - the obvious place being Waterhall, on the A23/A27 junction, with a frequent shuttle into the central station. Such a station on the mainline could also double as a commuter parkway station, easing pressures from commuters travelling across town the the central station and Preston Park. Unfortunately, we don't currently have the calibre of politicians to make this happen - just ones who would rather plough up the historic city centre gardens to make way for a series of bus & bike lanes and whose idea of an integrated transport exchange is to remove taxi access to the station and to squeeze the roads down so much that buses and cars can't get anywhere near in a timely manner. They preach that you should get on a bike, which you then can't even take on the train! Bob_The_Ferret
  • Score: 0

8:53pm Sat 2 Feb 13

HJarrs says...

Maxwell's Ghost wrote:
I have to salute those regular train users. I have commuted for a week and shambolic even fails to communicate how poor the public transport is.
The trains were late every day with dreadful delays when one broke down at Hassocks. I couldn't catch a bus from my estate because the Lewes Road scheme has left the one service which serves it useless. The timetable is non existent.
I live near the city centre so took to running to the station and then taking a train to Victoria.
Two hours on average each day one way at a huge cost.
It's no wonder that people just won't get out of their cars. In Friday my neighbour and I car shared to Gatwick and caught the Gatwick Express which was much easier.
It's a shame.
You picked a particularly poor week and Southern and FCC are shambolic when it comes to information. Southern are a fair weather railway, that said they have been pretty reliable most of the time last year and I expect performance to improve as the weather gets better.

However, lets not forget that every day on this website there is news alert of a local crash / road works / snow / flooding holding up traffic on the road.
[quote][p][bold]Maxwell's Ghost[/bold] wrote: I have to salute those regular train users. I have commuted for a week and shambolic even fails to communicate how poor the public transport is. The trains were late every day with dreadful delays when one broke down at Hassocks. I couldn't catch a bus from my estate because the Lewes Road scheme has left the one service which serves it useless. The timetable is non existent. I live near the city centre so took to running to the station and then taking a train to Victoria. Two hours on average each day one way at a huge cost. It's no wonder that people just won't get out of their cars. In Friday my neighbour and I car shared to Gatwick and caught the Gatwick Express which was much easier. It's a shame.[/p][/quote]You picked a particularly poor week and Southern and FCC are shambolic when it comes to information. Southern are a fair weather railway, that said they have been pretty reliable most of the time last year and I expect performance to improve as the weather gets better. However, lets not forget that every day on this website there is news alert of a local crash / road works / snow / flooding holding up traffic on the road. HJarrs
  • Score: 0

9:00pm Sat 2 Feb 13

Athena says...

Sussex jim wrote:
Athena wrote:
Sussex jim wrote:
There has been a park and ride system in operation since the birth of the motor car. It's called a railway.
The railway serves a different function to a motor car. A car has a boot, which contains all the family paraphernalia for the beach and/or pic-nick, the baby's essentials or granny's zimmer-frame or all the shopping. In other words, the train is too impractical for some journeys. Plus the it is expensive, crowded or badly-run. And for holiday-makers, it is inconvenient for those who want to drive around the Sussex countryside on their Brighton-based holiday, much of which is inaccessible by train.
I quite agree that a car serves different purposes. But the three railways that run into Brighton do already make an excellent park and ride system for those travelling in without luggage or other goods, and can park near London Road, Preston Park or Hove stations; or perhaps further out.
Yes, but let's face it, Park & Rides are a nuisance, particularly when you have three children and a buggy, a mother with dementia or you're off to town to do a lot of shopping. It's also a nuisance if you are a holidaymaker who wants to see the sights.
[quote][p][bold]Sussex jim[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Athena[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Sussex jim[/bold] wrote: There has been a park and ride system in operation since the birth of the motor car. It's called a railway.[/p][/quote]The railway serves a different function to a motor car. A car has a boot, which contains all the family paraphernalia for the beach and/or pic-nick, the baby's essentials or granny's zimmer-frame or all the shopping. In other words, the train is too impractical for some journeys. Plus the it is expensive, crowded or badly-run. And for holiday-makers, it is inconvenient for those who want to drive around the Sussex countryside on their Brighton-based holiday, much of which is inaccessible by train.[/p][/quote]I quite agree that a car serves different purposes. But the three railways that run into Brighton do already make an excellent park and ride system for those travelling in without luggage or other goods, and can park near London Road, Preston Park or Hove stations; or perhaps further out.[/p][/quote]Yes, but let's face it, Park & Rides are a nuisance, particularly when you have three children and a buggy, a mother with dementia or you're off to town to do a lot of shopping. It's also a nuisance if you are a holidaymaker who wants to see the sights. Athena
  • Score: 0

9:01pm Sat 2 Feb 13

Athena says...

HJarrs wrote:
Maxwell's Ghost wrote:
I have to salute those regular train users. I have commuted for a week and shambolic even fails to communicate how poor the public transport is.
The trains were late every day with dreadful delays when one broke down at Hassocks. I couldn't catch a bus from my estate because the Lewes Road scheme has left the one service which serves it useless. The timetable is non existent.
I live near the city centre so took to running to the station and then taking a train to Victoria.
Two hours on average each day one way at a huge cost.
It's no wonder that people just won't get out of their cars. In Friday my neighbour and I car shared to Gatwick and caught the Gatwick Express which was much easier.
It's a shame.
You picked a particularly poor week and Southern and FCC are shambolic when it comes to information. Southern are a fair weather railway, that said they have been pretty reliable most of the time last year and I expect performance to improve as the weather gets better.

However, lets not forget that every day on this website there is news alert of a local crash / road works / snow / flooding holding up traffic on the road.
Terrific if you've already made your way to the station and just don't happen to have your laptop with you. Or you just don't happen to have a laptop.
[quote][p][bold]HJarrs[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Maxwell's Ghost[/bold] wrote: I have to salute those regular train users. I have commuted for a week and shambolic even fails to communicate how poor the public transport is. The trains were late every day with dreadful delays when one broke down at Hassocks. I couldn't catch a bus from my estate because the Lewes Road scheme has left the one service which serves it useless. The timetable is non existent. I live near the city centre so took to running to the station and then taking a train to Victoria. Two hours on average each day one way at a huge cost. It's no wonder that people just won't get out of their cars. In Friday my neighbour and I car shared to Gatwick and caught the Gatwick Express which was much easier. It's a shame.[/p][/quote]You picked a particularly poor week and Southern and FCC are shambolic when it comes to information. Southern are a fair weather railway, that said they have been pretty reliable most of the time last year and I expect performance to improve as the weather gets better. However, lets not forget that every day on this website there is news alert of a local crash / road works / snow / flooding holding up traffic on the road.[/p][/quote]Terrific if you've already made your way to the station and just don't happen to have your laptop with you. Or you just don't happen to have a laptop. Athena
  • Score: 0

11:21pm Sat 2 Feb 13

Maxwell's Ghost says...

and the previous two weeks snow
And cold weather caused rail delays despite the roads being back in operation.
Somehow my clients aren't interested in public transport delays. I have to be there on time or lose business.
Also during the snow B&H buses stopped running buses to the uni campuses purely because the unis closed due to low turnout of staff and students despite nearby businesses still operating. This meant that end of town was poorly served despite the Lewes Road being clear if snow.
I am raising this with the council as I think this is unacceptable for a scheduled route. The unis do not pay for a chartered this route and I feel
This is unacceptable for a monopoly provider.
and the previous two weeks snow And cold weather caused rail delays despite the roads being back in operation. Somehow my clients aren't interested in public transport delays. I have to be there on time or lose business. Also during the snow B&H buses stopped running buses to the uni campuses purely because the unis closed due to low turnout of staff and students despite nearby businesses still operating. This meant that end of town was poorly served despite the Lewes Road being clear if snow. I am raising this with the council as I think this is unacceptable for a scheduled route. The unis do not pay for a chartered this route and I feel This is unacceptable for a monopoly provider. Maxwell's Ghost
  • Score: 0

8:16am Mon 4 Feb 13

salty_pete says...

It further isolates the railway station for those living to the east of the A23. It also makes a journey to Haywards Heath to catch a train viable for anyone living east of Woodingdean. And for those living on the west side of this scheme, ie. Gloucester Place, how on earth are you going to get any deliveries made or if you're disabled droppped off in a car by a friend?
It further isolates the railway station for those living to the east of the A23. It also makes a journey to Haywards Heath to catch a train viable for anyone living east of Woodingdean. And for those living on the west side of this scheme, ie. Gloucester Place, how on earth are you going to get any deliveries made or if you're disabled droppped off in a car by a friend? salty_pete
  • Score: 0

12:45pm Tue 5 Feb 13

toldsloth says...

I would recommend everybody take a good hard look at Lewes Road before commenting on these plans.

Please avoid taking your car otherwise you'll simply add to the mind boggling congestion which is a direct result of the restrictions imposed by the design NOT by the construction work. It will inevitably get WORSE once it is finished and serves as nothing more than a warning of how NOT to implement a road scheme.
I would recommend everybody take a good hard look at Lewes Road before commenting on these plans. Please avoid taking your car otherwise you'll simply add to the mind boggling congestion which is a direct result of the restrictions imposed by the design NOT by the construction work. It will inevitably get WORSE once it is finished and serves as nothing more than a warning of how NOT to implement a road scheme. toldsloth
  • Score: 0

12:50pm Tue 5 Feb 13

P.G says...

I like this gist of this idea.

There are a few aspects on the Kemp Town side...The Circus Street Municipal Market is an asset that could re-vitalise this area with an arts, crafts, farmers market, studios and performance space.....although I'm currently reading student accommodation is planned. The other issue would be the hostels that are currently sited along this stretch
I like this gist of this idea. There are a few aspects on the Kemp Town side...The Circus Street Municipal Market is an asset that could re-vitalise this area with an arts, crafts, farmers market, studios and performance space.....although I'm currently reading student accommodation is planned. The other issue would be the hostels that are currently sited along this stretch P.G
  • Score: 0

1:00pm Tue 5 Feb 13

Athena says...

Simply too many cars for such a compact city, and one without many main arteries through it. Many of the arteries we do have are blocked by cycle lanes. It's not a matter of everybody going by bus, train or bike. For some, that is impractical. Taxis, delivery lorries and vans, maintenance workers and builders, ambulances and other "working" vehicles all need good transport links. As do vehicles for the disabled, mini-buses for the elderly, school buses, families with young children and shopping. The number of singletons who could ride a bike, in this city, is miniscule compared to the rest of the population who need a vehicle to take them where they need to go.
Simply too many cars for such a compact city, and one without many main arteries through it. Many of the arteries we do have are blocked by cycle lanes. It's not a matter of everybody going by bus, train or bike. For some, that is impractical. Taxis, delivery lorries and vans, maintenance workers and builders, ambulances and other "working" vehicles all need good transport links. As do vehicles for the disabled, mini-buses for the elderly, school buses, families with young children and shopping. The number of singletons who could ride a bike, in this city, is miniscule compared to the rest of the population who need a vehicle to take them where they need to go. Athena
  • Score: 0

5:36pm Wed 6 Feb 13

wippasnapper says...

Valley Gardens is known as Woodland Walk from St Peters to the Old Stein.

Traffic trying to get out of Brighton will be grid locked duo to the one lane’s outgoing V London Rd & Lewes Rd just think of all that extra carbon dioxide everyone will be breathing in duo to all the congestion it will course.

Quite from “Brighton Living” To be green you need to have traffic flowing not at a standstill with the engines running…!

And my I remind everybody not so long ago the last council administration the Conservative first came up with this plane but it looks like the glorified GREEN have yet again stolen and orated the plans of the last administration only to take the glory of making Brighton a better but sorry to say not so heartier city…!

Maybe if all the GREEN councilors lived along the routs they have made congested with cars; truck ET pumping out carbon dioxide they’d think differently about coursing congestion… GREEN maybe there party name but HYPOCRITES is there true name!
Valley Gardens is known as Woodland Walk from St Peters to the Old Stein. Traffic trying to get out of Brighton will be grid locked duo to the one lane’s outgoing V London Rd & Lewes Rd just think of all that extra carbon dioxide everyone will be breathing in duo to all the congestion it will course. Quite from “Brighton Living” To be green you need to have traffic flowing not at a standstill with the engines running…! And my I remind everybody not so long ago the last council administration the Conservative first came up with this plane but it looks like the glorified GREEN have yet again stolen and orated the plans of the last administration only to take the glory of making Brighton a better but sorry to say not so heartier city…! Maybe if all the GREEN councilors lived along the routs they have made congested with cars; truck ET pumping out carbon dioxide they’d think differently about coursing congestion… GREEN maybe there party name but HYPOCRITES is there true name! wippasnapper
  • Score: 0

9:58pm Thu 7 Feb 13

ghost bus driver says...

Maxwell's Ghost wrote:
and the previous two weeks snow
And cold weather caused rail delays despite the roads being back in operation.
Somehow my clients aren't interested in public transport delays. I have to be there on time or lose business.
Also during the snow B&H buses stopped running buses to the uni campuses purely because the unis closed due to low turnout of staff and students despite nearby businesses still operating. This meant that end of town was poorly served despite the Lewes Road being clear if snow.
I am raising this with the council as I think this is unacceptable for a scheduled route. The unis do not pay for a chartered this route and I feel
This is unacceptable for a monopoly provider.
It was also something to do with a stuck Bendy in North South Road, and traffic jams because of a jackknifed vehicle on the Lewes Road. Hence no service to the Uni. Also anything going up Boiler House Hill had to take a run up. That's why we don;t go in the university when it snows.

And for the last time: B&HB&CC IS NOT A MONOPOLY PROVIDER THERE ARE AT LEAST FOUR COMPANIES OPERATING IN BRIGHTON.

Got it? Good. Lets hear no more talk of a monopoly.
[quote][p][bold]Maxwell's Ghost[/bold] wrote: and the previous two weeks snow And cold weather caused rail delays despite the roads being back in operation. Somehow my clients aren't interested in public transport delays. I have to be there on time or lose business. Also during the snow B&H buses stopped running buses to the uni campuses purely because the unis closed due to low turnout of staff and students despite nearby businesses still operating. This meant that end of town was poorly served despite the Lewes Road being clear if snow. I am raising this with the council as I think this is unacceptable for a scheduled route. The unis do not pay for a chartered this route and I feel This is unacceptable for a monopoly provider.[/p][/quote]It was also something to do with a stuck Bendy in North South Road, and traffic jams because of a jackknifed vehicle on the Lewes Road. Hence no service to the Uni. Also anything going up Boiler House Hill had to take a run up. That's why we don;t go in the university when it snows. And for the last time: B&HB&CC IS NOT A MONOPOLY PROVIDER THERE ARE AT LEAST FOUR COMPANIES OPERATING IN BRIGHTON. Got it? Good. Lets hear no more talk of a monopoly. ghost bus driver
  • Score: -1

Comments are closed on this article.

Send us your news, pictures and videos

Most read stories

Local Info

Enter your postcode, town or place name

About cookies

We want you to enjoy your visit to our website. That's why we use cookies to enhance your experience. By staying on our website you agree to our use of cookies. Find out more about the cookies we use.

I agree