The ArgusBrighton and Hove Council sitting on art goldmine (From The Argus)

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Brighton and Hove Council refuses to sell £32m art collection

A cash-strapped council has ruled out the sale of a single piece from its £32million art collection - despite the majority of the artwork gathering dust in storage.

Brighton and Hove City Council has one of the most impressive art collections in the country including valuable paintings by Turner, Constable and Gainsborough.

But despite £50 million of savings to be found during the next two years, and a 2% increase in council tax on the cards from April, the authority is refusing to part ways with any of its works.

Community groups are now calling on the council to either put the works on public display or cash in on them.

An Argus Freedom of Information request revealed the council owns some 1,500 oil paintings, 4,000 watercolours and drawings and well over 10,000 prints.

A number of the works are on display in the council’s museums but the majority are kept under lock and key in a secret storage location.

The council was unable to confirm the exact number in storage but said that it was “thousands”.

The collection includes some of the biggest names in art such as Constable, Turner, Calder, Hogarth, Gainsborough and Blake.

Of particular value is Jan Lievens’ The Raising of Lazarus which once hung in the home of Rembrandt.

Constable worth £240,000

Council officials refused to reveal the individual value of the items but public financial statements estimate the collection’s total worth to be £31,426,000.

Nicholas Toovey, from Toovey’s art valuers in Washington, said it was impossible to estimate the values without seeing the pieces.

However, he added that works by Constable could sell for £240,000 alone.

A spokeswoman argued the art collection helped attract thousands of visitors to our city every year.

She added: “Because the city has thousands of items and limited exhibition space, there will always be a proportion of our collection in store.

“However, we rotate the collections regularly to bring those items back on display. Even when not on display, collections are used for research, learning and engagement projects, which benefit residents and the wider public.”

Light damage

She added some works spent large periods of time in storage to protect them from light damage.

In recent years, many local authorities have decided to sell their collections in an attempt to balance the books. Late last year, Tower Hamlets Council announced it hoped to make some £4 million to £17 million from the sale of a Henry Moore sculpture.

In 2011, Bolton Council put up 35 works of art to be sold from the likes of Millais, Picasso and Hutchison, while in 2006 Bury Council raised £1.4 million by selling LS Lowry's A Riverbank.

Community groups and organisations which have fallen victim to recent cuts are now calling on Brighton and Hove City Council to follow suit.

Public display

Pride organiser and Gscene editor, James Ledward, said: “I’ve never been a believer in art which is not on public display. So I’ve got no problem with them selling it off. I would encourage it.”

Malcolm Burstow, who has seen his bowls club in Hove close following council cuts, added: “If they are just sitting there in storage they should get rid of them. At least then someone would benefit.

"However, as always with things like this, it’s a question of where does it stop.”

Matthew Sinclair, chief executive of the TaxPayers’ Alliance, said: “Council-owned art should either be on display for residents and visitors to enjoy or loaned out to galleries to make best use of their value.

"And with budgets so tight, the council should be considering whether it needs to retain such a vast and valuable art collection, given the prices that the pieces would fetch if they were sold.

“Brighton and Hove taxpayers are already being presented with a hike in council tax.

No sale

"The pill will be all the more bitter for residents to swallow, knowing that the council is sitting on an art collection worth millions which it is allowing to gather dust.”

A council spokeswoman said the council would not be selling a single piece from the collection.

She added: “In terms of selling artefacts, any museum service pursuing sales from the collection not in accordance with tight rules set out for the sector risks elimination from the government’s museum accreditation scheme.

"Without accredited status museums cannot go for external funding and other support.”

Talking point: What should be done with Brighton and Hove City Council's art collection? Should work be on public display or sold off? Share your views by commenting below or contribute to The Argus letters pages by emailing letters@theargus.co.uk

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Comments (41)

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1:15pm Tue 5 Feb 13

s&k says...

Just a shame the public can't see them!
Just a shame the public can't see them! s&k
  • Score: 0

1:36pm Tue 5 Feb 13

spa301 says...

Really don't think any of these should be sold but nor should they be hidden from us, the owners.
Really don't think any of these should be sold but nor should they be hidden from us, the owners. spa301
  • Score: 0

1:36pm Tue 5 Feb 13

Dan Yack says...

It's all very well saying that it should be on display, but it actually *costs money* to run galleries. You have the costs of running a building, paying the staff, paying for security - where the heck would the money come from to increase public gallery space in Brighton?
It's all very well saying that it should be on display, but it actually *costs money* to run galleries. You have the costs of running a building, paying the staff, paying for security - where the heck would the money come from to increase public gallery space in Brighton? Dan Yack
  • Score: 0

1:37pm Tue 5 Feb 13

Crystal Ball says...

So like the Vatican but with way way less style, sophistication and history.
So like the Vatican but with way way less style, sophistication and history. Crystal Ball
  • Score: 0

1:38pm Tue 5 Feb 13

Wooah Wooah says...

s&k wrote:
Just a shame the public can't see them!
Not so much a shame as a scandal. the public owns these items, but can't ever get to see them. And Brighton is not alone, there are thousands of artworks owned by Councils all over the country that never see the light of day. They might as well be in private collections, for all that we get to enjoy them.

But I don't think we should sell them - I think we should find ways of getting them on display from time to time.
[quote][p][bold]s&k[/bold] wrote: Just a shame the public can't see them![/p][/quote]Not so much a shame as a scandal. the public owns these items, but can't ever get to see them. And Brighton is not alone, there are thousands of artworks owned by Councils all over the country that never see the light of day. They might as well be in private collections, for all that we get to enjoy them. But I don't think we should sell them - I think we should find ways of getting them on display from time to time. Wooah Wooah
  • Score: 0

1:49pm Tue 5 Feb 13

censored says...

I'm sure they could find space within the Dome and Museum complex to have an annually rotating display and very little extra cost.
I'm sure they could find space within the Dome and Museum complex to have an annually rotating display and very little extra cost. censored
  • Score: 0

2:00pm Tue 5 Feb 13

Pebbles says...

But happy to put CD1 up for sale.. "As it is only a piece of plastic" (Kitkat)
But happy to put CD1 up for sale.. "As it is only a piece of plastic" (Kitkat) Pebbles
  • Score: 0

2:05pm Tue 5 Feb 13

rubberflipper says...

Let's get one thing clear: The art collection belongs to B&H residents and NOT the Council.

Let the people decide by a referendum.
Let's get one thing clear: The art collection belongs to B&H residents and NOT the Council. Let the people decide by a referendum. rubberflipper
  • Score: 0

2:05pm Tue 5 Feb 13

Dan Yack says...

We do get to see a lot of these pictures:

"At Brighton Museum & Art Gallery, three spaces are dedicated to displaying works from the fine art collection. The Prints & Drawings gallery houses displays which are changed every six months or so. The Paintings gallery is changed every two years."

http://www.brighton-
hove-rpml.org.uk/His
toryAndCollections/a
boutcollections/fine
art/Pages/home.aspx

The problem is that there is only so much space for public displays, and secondly, certain works might be vulnerable to damage if they're exhibited for extended periods of time.
We do get to see a lot of these pictures: "At Brighton Museum & Art Gallery, three spaces are dedicated to displaying works from the fine art collection. [bold]The Prints & Drawings gallery houses displays which are changed every six months or so. The Paintings gallery is changed every two years.[/bold]" http://www.brighton- hove-rpml.org.uk/His toryAndCollections/a boutcollections/fine art/Pages/home.aspx The problem is that there is only so much space for public displays, and secondly, certain works might be vulnerable to damage if they're exhibited for extended periods of time. Dan Yack
  • Score: 0

2:06pm Tue 5 Feb 13

NickBtn says...

Over 15,000 items seems far, far too many. Even with rotation most won't see the light of day

I'm sure that the collection can be pruned. That way we'd make some money rather than paying to have them sitting in storage. Even if just 10% went that could be a useful few million. Some imagination is needed in these difficult times
Over 15,000 items seems far, far too many. Even with rotation most won't see the light of day I'm sure that the collection can be pruned. That way we'd make some money rather than paying to have them sitting in storage. Even if just 10% went that could be a useful few million. Some imagination is needed in these difficult times NickBtn
  • Score: 0

2:14pm Tue 5 Feb 13

rolivan says...

I have asked several times about a Bronze Artifact that was in the Museum but cannot be found.Please could someone from the Argus find out who is responsible for the Inventory of Artifacts and how do we know they really exist.I hope there is more than one copy held by multiple agencies.If there are thousands of articles it would be easy for something to go missingand not realised without stringent controls.
I have asked several times about a Bronze Artifact that was in the Museum but cannot be found.Please could someone from the Argus find out who is responsible for the Inventory of Artifacts and how do we know they really exist.I hope there is more than one copy held by multiple agencies.If there are thousands of articles it would be easy for something to go missingand not realised without stringent controls. rolivan
  • Score: 0

3:06pm Tue 5 Feb 13

Charismatic Andrew says...

It would be interesting to know how much it is costing to keep all these items in storage. Perhaps the Argus could ask as a follow up?

Don't you just love the quotes from the council spokeswoman? I swear that all council officers go on a course where they learn to how to provide information this is either impossible to understand or that gives an answer to a completely different question to the one asked. Quite extraordinary.
It would be interesting to know how much it is costing to keep all these items in storage. Perhaps the Argus could ask as a follow up? Don't you just love the quotes from the council spokeswoman? I swear that all council officers go on a course where they learn to how to provide information this is either impossible to understand or that gives an answer to a completely different question to the one asked. Quite extraordinary. Charismatic Andrew
  • Score: 0

3:13pm Tue 5 Feb 13

rpdutt says...

No museum has all its artefacts on public display all the time: they're lent to other museums, undergo conservation work, and some, as the article points out, could be damaged if on display for too long. Most museums will respond positively if someone asks to see an item that's held in storage. I've never asked the Brighton museums for anything, but I'm confident they would do the same
No museum has all its artefacts on public display all the time: they're lent to other museums, undergo conservation work, and some, as the article points out, could be damaged if on display for too long. Most museums will respond positively if someone asks to see an item that's held in storage. I've never asked the Brighton museums for anything, but I'm confident they would do the same rpdutt
  • Score: 0

3:38pm Tue 5 Feb 13

sussexfoz says...

The council has no right to sell these items as they have been donated over many years,my family gave items many many years ago if i found these items were going to be sold i feel my family should have the cash raised from the sell
The council has no right to sell these items as they have been donated over many years,my family gave items many many years ago if i found these items were going to be sold i feel my family should have the cash raised from the sell sussexfoz
  • Score: 0

3:47pm Tue 5 Feb 13

derekhunt says...

Charismatic Andrew wrote:
It would be interesting to know how much it is costing to keep all these items in storage. Perhaps the Argus could ask as a follow up? Don't you just love the quotes from the council spokeswoman? I swear that all council officers go on a course where they learn to how to provide information this is either impossible to understand or that gives an answer to a completely different question to the one asked. Quite extraordinary.
'A council spokeswoman said the council would not be selling a single piece from the collection.'

That seems pretty clear to me. Whether or not you agree with what they're saying is another matter
[quote][p][bold]Charismatic Andrew[/bold] wrote: It would be interesting to know how much it is costing to keep all these items in storage. Perhaps the Argus could ask as a follow up? Don't you just love the quotes from the council spokeswoman? I swear that all council officers go on a course where they learn to how to provide information this is either impossible to understand or that gives an answer to a completely different question to the one asked. Quite extraordinary.[/p][/quote]'A council spokeswoman said the council would not be selling a single piece from the collection.' That seems pretty clear to me. Whether or not you agree with what they're saying is another matter derekhunt
  • Score: 0

4:34pm Tue 5 Feb 13

rolivan says...

rpdutt wrote:
No museum has all its artefacts on public display all the time: they're lent to other museums, undergo conservation work, and some, as the article points out, could be damaged if on display for too long. Most museums will respond positively if someone asks to see an item that's held in storage. I've never asked the Brighton museums for anything, but I'm confident they would do the same
I asked but was told the item couldn't be found hence my concerns about control of inventory.
[quote][p][bold]rpdutt[/bold] wrote: No museum has all its artefacts on public display all the time: they're lent to other museums, undergo conservation work, and some, as the article points out, could be damaged if on display for too long. Most museums will respond positively if someone asks to see an item that's held in storage. I've never asked the Brighton museums for anything, but I'm confident they would do the same[/p][/quote]I asked but was told the item couldn't be found hence my concerns about control of inventory. rolivan
  • Score: 0

4:35pm Tue 5 Feb 13

Peter58 says...

Well done to the Argus asking for a Freedom of info request. There have been quite a few letters about these hidden reserves, but the council has not had the decency to come clean. Even now they don't want to reveal everything - what about the land they have? What makes it worse is that some of the art collection is hidden away, so very few people know about it. Shame on you, B & H council
Well done to the Argus asking for a Freedom of info request. There have been quite a few letters about these hidden reserves, but the council has not had the decency to come clean. Even now they don't want to reveal everything - what about the land they have? What makes it worse is that some of the art collection is hidden away, so very few people know about it. Shame on you, B & H council Peter58
  • Score: 0

4:48pm Tue 5 Feb 13

billy goat-gruff says...

Almost every town on the south coast has a dedicated art gallery that brings in tourists and prestige: The Towner in Eastbourne, and the Jerwood in Hastings are just two nearby. Brighton and Hove is a *city* and it doesn't! It's time to convert one of our iconic buildings lying empty into a dedicated art gallery. If London can convert a power station into Tate Modern, surely Brighton could convert the Astoria into a gallery so more of Brighton's treasures can be seen by all.
Almost every town on the south coast has a dedicated art gallery that brings in tourists and prestige: The Towner in Eastbourne, and the Jerwood in Hastings are just two nearby. Brighton and Hove is a *city* and it doesn't! It's time to convert one of our iconic buildings lying empty into a dedicated art gallery. If London can convert a power station into Tate Modern, surely Brighton could convert the Astoria into a gallery so more of Brighton's treasures can be seen by all. billy goat-gruff
  • Score: 0

4:52pm Tue 5 Feb 13

Mrs Newcastle says...

I would be more than happy to give a free space for a painting to hang in my living room, any chance of Turner's "Chain Pier"
I would be more than happy to give a free space for a painting to hang in my living room, any chance of Turner's "Chain Pier" Mrs Newcastle
  • Score: 0

4:58pm Tue 5 Feb 13

Peter58 says...

I think B & H Council should come clean, & admit to all their millions they have, not only the art collection. They have plenty of LAND, as well as money invested in banks which is hardly earning any interest. Come on Mr Kitcat - lead the way.
I think B & H Council should come clean, & admit to all their millions they have, not only the art collection. They have plenty of LAND, as well as money invested in banks which is hardly earning any interest. Come on Mr Kitcat - lead the way. Peter58
  • Score: 0

4:59pm Tue 5 Feb 13

Lady Smith says...

billy goat-gruff wrote:
Almost every town on the south coast has a dedicated art gallery that brings in tourists and prestige: The Towner in Eastbourne, and the Jerwood in Hastings are just two nearby. Brighton and Hove is a *city* and it doesn't! It's time to convert one of our iconic buildings lying empty into a dedicated art gallery. If London can convert a power station into Tate Modern, surely Brighton could convert the Astoria into a gallery so more of Brighton's treasures can be seen by all.
Erm...and where, pray, is the money going to come from to buy and then convert the Astoria or any other building - especially if no-one wants to sell any of these so-called 'hidden' art objects? BHCC doesn't OWN the Astoria, or the Hippodrome, or the old Co-op or any other empty historic building you might care to mention. And, FYI, there was great resistance in both Eastbourne and Hastings at plans to build new dedicated art galleries in those towns. Near the Jerwood, there are still houses bearing 'No to the Jerwood' plaques and posters. Councils are damned if they do, and damned if they don't
[quote][p][bold]billy goat-gruff[/bold] wrote: Almost every town on the south coast has a dedicated art gallery that brings in tourists and prestige: The Towner in Eastbourne, and the Jerwood in Hastings are just two nearby. Brighton and Hove is a *city* and it doesn't! It's time to convert one of our iconic buildings lying empty into a dedicated art gallery. If London can convert a power station into Tate Modern, surely Brighton could convert the Astoria into a gallery so more of Brighton's treasures can be seen by all.[/p][/quote]Erm...and where, pray, is the money going to come from to buy and then convert the Astoria or any other building - especially if no-one wants to sell any of these so-called 'hidden' art objects? BHCC doesn't OWN the Astoria, or the Hippodrome, or the old Co-op or any other empty historic building you might care to mention. And, FYI, there was great resistance in both Eastbourne and Hastings at plans to build new dedicated art galleries in those towns. Near the Jerwood, there are still houses bearing 'No to the Jerwood' plaques and posters. Councils are damned if they do, and damned if they don't Lady Smith
  • Score: 0

5:06pm Tue 5 Feb 13

Morpheus says...

Perhaps the council could photographs of them on their website so that we can at least know what they are keeping from us.
Perhaps the council could photographs of them on their website so that we can at least know what they are keeping from us. Morpheus
  • Score: 0

5:54pm Tue 5 Feb 13

Pebbles says...

Morpheus wrote:
Perhaps the council could photographs of them on their website so that we can at least know what they are keeping from us.
Excellent idea!
[quote][p][bold]Morpheus[/bold] wrote: Perhaps the council could photographs of them on their website so that we can at least know what they are keeping from us.[/p][/quote]Excellent idea! Pebbles
  • Score: 0

6:13pm Tue 5 Feb 13

Andy R says...

Charismatic Andrew wrote:
It would be interesting to know how much it is costing to keep all these items in storage. Perhaps the Argus could ask as a follow up? Don't you just love the quotes from the council spokeswoman? I swear that all council officers go on a course where they learn to how to provide information this is either impossible to understand or that gives an answer to a completely different question to the one asked. Quite extraordinary.
Errm....council spokeswoman was asked why more of the art could not be on display....council spokeswoman explained why more the the art could not be on display. Hah! Typical evasion and dissembling!

Doh.......

She also went on to explain why just getting rid of art is totally self-defeating if we want to continue to attract funding and accreditation for our museums. There is also the rather obvious point (seemingly missed in this article) that selling pieces of art produces one-off capital receipts, not ongoing revenue. After we've assetstripped the art collections, what's next?

If you want to refer to someone who clearly went on a course in order to provide easy copy, then look no further than Matthew "Rentaquote" Sinclair of the "Taxpayers Alliance". A man who never let showing that he knows eff-all about anything stop him from talking at length about...anything!
[quote][p][bold]Charismatic Andrew[/bold] wrote: It would be interesting to know how much it is costing to keep all these items in storage. Perhaps the Argus could ask as a follow up? Don't you just love the quotes from the council spokeswoman? I swear that all council officers go on a course where they learn to how to provide information this is either impossible to understand or that gives an answer to a completely different question to the one asked. Quite extraordinary.[/p][/quote]Errm....council spokeswoman was asked why more of the art could not be on display....council spokeswoman explained why more the the art could not be on display. Hah! Typical evasion and dissembling! Doh....... She also went on to explain why just getting rid of art is totally self-defeating if we want to continue to attract funding and accreditation for our museums. There is also the rather obvious point (seemingly missed in this article) that selling pieces of art produces one-off capital receipts, not ongoing revenue. After we've assetstripped the art collections, what's next? If you want to refer to someone who clearly went on a course in order to provide easy copy, then look no further than Matthew "Rentaquote" Sinclair of the "Taxpayers Alliance". A man who never let showing that he knows eff-all about anything stop him from talking at length about...anything! Andy R
  • Score: 0

6:24pm Tue 5 Feb 13

sussexfoz says...

Another non story from the Argus zzzzz
Another non story from the Argus zzzzz sussexfoz
  • Score: 0

6:39pm Tue 5 Feb 13

Metro Reader says...

I am putting in my own FoI request on FOI requests made to the B&HCC in the last 3 years, who may from the Argus, and the amount of resource, person power and money, it has cost the tax payer.

Yet another totally waste of time caused this rag. Everyone knows some art can not be shown. As for a quote from James Ledward I am speechless.
I am putting in my own FoI request on FOI requests made to the B&HCC in the last 3 years, who may from the Argus, and the amount of resource, person power and money, it has cost the tax payer. Yet another totally waste of time caused this rag. Everyone knows some art can not be shown. As for a quote from James Ledward I am speechless. Metro Reader
  • Score: 0

8:05pm Tue 5 Feb 13

Sir Prised says...

"Council officials refused to reveal the individual value of the items" Does make you wonder what's the point of living in a supposed democracy? It's not like knowing the values put anyone at risk!
"Council officials refused to reveal the individual value of the items" Does make you wonder what's the point of living in a supposed democracy? It's not like knowing the values put anyone at risk! Sir Prised
  • Score: 0

8:49pm Tue 5 Feb 13

mimseycal says...

Why was the Council unable to confirm the exact number in storage?
Why was the Council unable to confirm the exact number in storage? mimseycal
  • Score: 0

8:58pm Tue 5 Feb 13

HJarrs says...

sussexfoz wrote:
The council has no right to sell these items as they have been donated over many years,my family gave items many many years ago if i found these items were going to be sold i feel my family should have the cash raised from the sell
I rather think your comment puts an end to the matter, the council probably only bought a small proportion and the legal as to who should get what would cost a fortune and last for years. The Argus, of course, would may hay with headlines as they do today.
[quote][p][bold]sussexfoz[/bold] wrote: The council has no right to sell these items as they have been donated over many years,my family gave items many many years ago if i found these items were going to be sold i feel my family should have the cash raised from the sell[/p][/quote]I rather think your comment puts an end to the matter, the council probably only bought a small proportion and the legal as to who should get what would cost a fortune and last for years. The Argus, of course, would may hay with headlines as they do today. HJarrs
  • Score: 0

9:25pm Tue 5 Feb 13

Tring says...

The art expert said:

"However, he added that works by Constable could sell for £240,000 alone."

The Argus sub-editor said:

"Constable worth £240,000"

A lot of people come to Brighton for its cultural assets, of one sort and another. What sort of message would it send to sell them off?
The art expert said: "However, he added that works by Constable could sell for £240,000 alone." The Argus sub-editor said: "Constable worth £240,000" A lot of people come to Brighton for its cultural assets, of one sort and another. What sort of message would it send to sell them off? Tring
  • Score: 0

11:05pm Tue 5 Feb 13

mimseycal says...

HJarrs wrote:
sussexfoz wrote:
The council has no right to sell these items as they have been donated over many years,my family gave items many many years ago if i found these items were going to be sold i feel my family should have the cash raised from the sell
I rather think your comment puts an end to the matter, the council probably only bought a small proportion and the legal as to who should get what would cost a fortune and last for years. The Argus, of course, would may hay with headlines as they do today.
Not really. A gift is gifted. Unless specific conditions were made during the gifting, there is nothing to prevent the current owner from doing what they like with the gift.
[quote][p][bold]HJarrs[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]sussexfoz[/bold] wrote: The council has no right to sell these items as they have been donated over many years,my family gave items many many years ago if i found these items were going to be sold i feel my family should have the cash raised from the sell[/p][/quote]I rather think your comment puts an end to the matter, the council probably only bought a small proportion and the legal as to who should get what would cost a fortune and last for years. The Argus, of course, would may hay with headlines as they do today.[/p][/quote]Not really. A gift is gifted. Unless specific conditions were made during the gifting, there is nothing to prevent the current owner from doing what they like with the gift. mimseycal
  • Score: 0

11:31pm Tue 5 Feb 13

P Hicks says...

Sorry Mr. Ledward, Mr Sinclair and all you other philistines, it's not your art to sell. The collection belongs to the people of Brighton and Hove, built up over a hundred years. It is for OUR cultural and educational use. The museums have an excellent display rotation and I thoroughly enjoy many of the paintings that are hung. If you know anything about art collections, a large % has to be in storage at any one time.
Sorry Mr. Ledward, Mr Sinclair and all you other philistines, it's not your art to sell. The collection belongs to the people of Brighton and Hove, built up over a hundred years. It is for OUR cultural and educational use. The museums have an excellent display rotation and I thoroughly enjoy many of the paintings that are hung. If you know anything about art collections, a large % has to be in storage at any one time. P Hicks
  • Score: 0

8:53am Wed 6 Feb 13

sussexfoz says...

mimseycal wrote:
HJarrs wrote:
sussexfoz wrote:
The council has no right to sell these items as they have been donated over many years,my family gave items many many years ago if i found these items were going to be sold i feel my family should have the cash raised from the sell
I rather think your comment puts an end to the matter, the council probably only bought a small proportion and the legal as to who should get what would cost a fortune and last for years. The Argus, of course, would may hay with headlines as they do today.
Not really. A gift is gifted. Unless specific conditions were made during the gifting, there is nothing to prevent the current owner from doing what they like with the gift.
I CAN ONLY TALK ABOUT THE ITEMS MY FAMILY DONATED IT WAS ON THECONDITION THEY WERE NOT SOLD,OR THEY WOULD HAVE TO BE RETURNED TO THE FAMILY THATS WHAT I WAS TOLD I DONT KNOW IFTHIS IS TRUE I HAVE NOT SEEN THE PAPERWORK IT WAS NOT BRIGHTON AND HOVE AT THE TIME JUST BRIGHTON,I DO WISH THE ARGUS WOULD NOT MAKE STORIES UP WHEN ITS A SLOW NEWS DAY I THINK THEY MUST BE WAITING FOR THE FOOTBALLERS VERDICT AND HAD THIS HANGING ABOUT AS A FRONT PAGE FILLER,ARGUS WHY DONT YOU FIND A PROPER STORY
[quote][p][bold]mimseycal[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]HJarrs[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]sussexfoz[/bold] wrote: The council has no right to sell these items as they have been donated over many years,my family gave items many many years ago if i found these items were going to be sold i feel my family should have the cash raised from the sell[/p][/quote]I rather think your comment puts an end to the matter, the council probably only bought a small proportion and the legal as to who should get what would cost a fortune and last for years. The Argus, of course, would may hay with headlines as they do today.[/p][/quote]Not really. A gift is gifted. Unless specific conditions were made during the gifting, there is nothing to prevent the current owner from doing what they like with the gift.[/p][/quote]I CAN ONLY TALK ABOUT THE ITEMS MY FAMILY DONATED IT WAS ON THECONDITION THEY WERE NOT SOLD,OR THEY WOULD HAVE TO BE RETURNED TO THE FAMILY THATS WHAT I WAS TOLD I DONT KNOW IFTHIS IS TRUE I HAVE NOT SEEN THE PAPERWORK IT WAS NOT BRIGHTON AND HOVE AT THE TIME JUST BRIGHTON,I DO WISH THE ARGUS WOULD NOT MAKE STORIES UP WHEN ITS A SLOW NEWS DAY I THINK THEY MUST BE WAITING FOR THE FOOTBALLERS VERDICT AND HAD THIS HANGING ABOUT AS A FRONT PAGE FILLER,ARGUS WHY DONT YOU FIND A PROPER STORY sussexfoz
  • Score: 0

10:14am Wed 6 Feb 13

redwing says...

Trust the Argus to promote the "price of eyerything and the value of nothing" culture so prevalent these days.
Trust the Argus to promote the "price of eyerything and the value of nothing" culture so prevalent these days. redwing
  • Score: 0

10:14am Wed 6 Feb 13

Charismatic Andrew says...

Andy R wrote:
Charismatic Andrew wrote:
It would be interesting to know how much it is costing to keep all these items in storage. Perhaps the Argus could ask as a follow up? Don't you just love the quotes from the council spokeswoman? I swear that all council officers go on a course where they learn to how to provide information this is either impossible to understand or that gives an answer to a completely different question to the one asked. Quite extraordinary.
Errm....council spokeswoman was asked why more of the art could not be on display....council spokeswoman explained why more the the art could not be on display. Hah! Typical evasion and dissembling!

Doh.......

She also went on to explain why just getting rid of art is totally self-defeating if we want to continue to attract funding and accreditation for our museums. There is also the rather obvious point (seemingly missed in this article) that selling pieces of art produces one-off capital receipts, not ongoing revenue. After we've assetstripped the art collections, what's next?

If you want to refer to someone who clearly went on a course in order to provide easy copy, then look no further than Matthew "Rentaquote" Sinclair of the "Taxpayers Alliance". A man who never let showing that he knows eff-all about anything stop him from talking at length about...anything!
The council spokeswoman said "In terms of selling artefacts, any museum service pursuing sales from the collection not in accordance with tight rules set out for the sector risks elimination from the government’s museum accreditation scheme".

......... this is a typical meaningless statement which doesn't explain at all why the council will not be selling any of the collection. It suggests that it is perfectly possible to sell items as long as the sales are in accordance with the rules that have been set out.

You might be happy with vague answers like this that are so common from the Council. I expect higher standards.
[quote][p][bold]Andy R[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Charismatic Andrew[/bold] wrote: It would be interesting to know how much it is costing to keep all these items in storage. Perhaps the Argus could ask as a follow up? Don't you just love the quotes from the council spokeswoman? I swear that all council officers go on a course where they learn to how to provide information this is either impossible to understand or that gives an answer to a completely different question to the one asked. Quite extraordinary.[/p][/quote]Errm....council spokeswoman was asked why more of the art could not be on display....council spokeswoman explained why more the the art could not be on display. Hah! Typical evasion and dissembling! Doh....... She also went on to explain why just getting rid of art is totally self-defeating if we want to continue to attract funding and accreditation for our museums. There is also the rather obvious point (seemingly missed in this article) that selling pieces of art produces one-off capital receipts, not ongoing revenue. After we've assetstripped the art collections, what's next? If you want to refer to someone who clearly went on a course in order to provide easy copy, then look no further than Matthew "Rentaquote" Sinclair of the "Taxpayers Alliance". A man who never let showing that he knows eff-all about anything stop him from talking at length about...anything![/p][/quote]The council spokeswoman said "In terms of selling artefacts, any museum service pursuing sales from the collection not in accordance with tight rules set out for the sector risks elimination from the government’s museum accreditation scheme". ......... this is a typical meaningless statement which doesn't explain at all why the council will not be selling any of the collection. It suggests that it is perfectly possible to sell items as long as the sales are in accordance with the rules that have been set out. You might be happy with vague answers like this that are so common from the Council. I expect higher standards. Charismatic Andrew
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10:46am Wed 6 Feb 13

Mylex58 says...

Interesting that Penny Thompson (Chief Executive of Brighton & Hove City Council) would not be drawn on this issue yesterday when it was raised at a meeting with Brighton's tourism businesses. You might say her face was a blank canvas!
Interesting that Penny Thompson (Chief Executive of Brighton & Hove City Council) would not be drawn on this issue yesterday when it was raised at a meeting with Brighton's tourism businesses. You might say her face was a blank canvas! Mylex58
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2:09pm Wed 6 Feb 13

Peter58 says...

Just can't believe some of the earlier comments. What most of the people commenting here are missing is the fact B & H Council is very well off. Not only do they have this art collection (how many people knew about this, until the Argus highlighted it), but also plenty of land (Ovingdean amongst other places), & also the millions they have stashed away hidden from prying eyes - & yet they plead poverty!
Just can't believe some of the earlier comments. What most of the people commenting here are missing is the fact B & H Council is very well off. Not only do they have this art collection (how many people knew about this, until the Argus highlighted it), but also plenty of land (Ovingdean amongst other places), & also the millions they have stashed away hidden from prying eyes - & yet they plead poverty! Peter58
  • Score: 0

10:27am Thu 7 Feb 13

olebut says...

Hire them out to Museums and galleries across the UK or indeed world, That way they retain ownership, don't have to store them and obtain an income.

It is hardly rocket science
Hire them out to Museums and galleries across the UK or indeed world, That way they retain ownership, don't have to store them and obtain an income. It is hardly rocket science olebut
  • Score: 0

2:02pm Thu 7 Feb 13

Joshiman says...

Let's get one thing clear: The art collection belongs to B&H residents and NOT the Council.

Totally agree!!!!!!!!!!!
Council take note.Do not swap them for silly waste of time windturbines or more cycle lanes and traffic lights.
Let's get one thing clear: The art collection belongs to B&H residents and NOT the Council. Totally agree!!!!!!!!!!! Council take note.Do not swap them for silly waste of time windturbines or more cycle lanes and traffic lights. Joshiman
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7:53pm Thu 7 Feb 13

quedula says...

Perhaps they should sell off just enough to build an Art Gallery to display the remainder.
Perhaps they should sell off just enough to build an Art Gallery to display the remainder. quedula
  • Score: 0

7:53pm Thu 7 Feb 13

quedula says...

Perhaps they should sell off just enough to build an Art Gallery to display the remainder.
Perhaps they should sell off just enough to build an Art Gallery to display the remainder. quedula
  • Score: 0

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