‘No frills’ to save £50m from Brighton and Hove Council budget – a ‘toxic’ idea (From The Argus)

I don't necessarily think it should be handed over to 'Crapita' but we could certainly save some money if the Green taliban cut out their pet projects like the I360 waste of money tower. Good on Tony, at last someone growing some spine in the Conservative group. Someone should tell Geoff that abstention is a close relative of aquiecence. I hear that someone gave all the parties a verbal kicking at last meeting of full council. Maybe some were listening?

Best service and best value do not mean cheapest.

It means delivering what people want, at a price that ensures quality without being overpriced.

But of course, the Conservatives have always been the very definition of "the price of everything but the value of nothing".

You can't have the services you want if you aren't prepared to pay for them. People don't want pay any more council tax, but they want the council to provide fantastic services. It can't be done.
I would rather pay more tax and have better services, but I'm in the minority.
I don't want any more daft Green money wasting traffic schemes though. We can live with things as they are for the time being. Spend the money on something more important..

I can only use the examplr i came across recently the NHS is getting privatised through the back door.At southlands hospital the warren brown unit for sexual health shut down,the services were going to be took over by virgin care but they have noe pulled out.Through attempted privatisation sexual health services have noe just about gone from southwick.Loads of other services have been cut in effect the hospital is closing down.Privatisation to me is just a cut in services not replacing services ,the effects can be seen all over the NHS.There are ways of saving money one example is why are the council offices on hove seafront there is loads of empty office places on the outskirts of brighton,plus if they combined services in one building they couls share catering offices ETC ETC.Brighton and hoves council is very disjointed with different departments all over the place which cant be ecomomical.There is so many things that could be shared rather than having seperate services etc for each office common sense is required.

Janio's suggestion of outsourcing back office functions is a good one and should have been done years ago. All councils have essentially the same back offices running the same services. It is ludicrous that all of them maintain separate IT systems to do so. Simply merge the lot. Certainly merge all those in Sussex. The savings for all councils would be huge. I really don't care if the outsourcing is private or a public authority consortium, just get on with it.

What a great idea. About time the council stopped thinking that they know how to spend our money better than we do: £1.5m on 20 mile an hour signs, millions on white elephant cycle lanes, mobile libraries that cost more than buying iPads for all the users.

This isn't fictional money this our council tax money that we could be keeping and using to pay for ever increasing living expenses.

Dealing with idiots wrote:
I don't necessarily think it should be handed over to 'Crapita' but we could certainly save some money if the Green taliban cut out their pet projects like the I360 waste of money tower. Good on Tony, at last someone growing some spine in the Conservative group. Someone should tell Geoff that abstention is a close relative of aquiecence. I hear that someone gave all the parties a verbal kicking at last meeting of full council. Maybe some were listening?

Why weren't you honest that you are a Tory supporter when you started that frankly embarrassingly poor anti- Green petition?

Want to see a failing authority? Check out barking mad Barnet. Local people have no say, little if any money has been saved, big cuts have been made and they are locked in to long term contracts. Oh and most of the work will be outsourced out of the area over time.

It is clear that the swivel eyed Tory neocon nutters have taken over the B&H Tory party. Time to vote them all out if we want to protect local services.

A poorly thought out idea even by the standards of the local Tory party. Barnet's "Easy Council" plan to provide as few services to its residents as possible was ruled illegal by the Courts which pointed out that Council's were obliged to provide services, that being what they are there for after all.
As for Capita, anyone against wasting public money will have alarm bells ringing on hearing that name! They exist to provide shoddy services on the cheap until they get bought out of their contract - the Passport backlog, the Criminal Records checking fiasco and the student grant scheme that gave money to al qaeda are but a few examples!

The other alternative is start with a blank balance sheet, and then provide/fund the statutory service that councils are legally obliged to provide. All else is "nice to have" but not essential. The difference in cost would be huge, and I'm sure some of the difference could be used for funding meaningful projects. However have we any councillors radical enough to confront the senior officers of the council with huge vested interests in their respective departments?

They could stop chopping down trees and then wasting more money by replacing them with sheep. They are far too free and easy with other peoples hard earned cash.

Hjarrs has yet again provided decent ammunition against his own argument with his predictable outrage and reluctance to accept cold hard facts.
It is not the public services that he's fretting about, its the livelihoods of the leeches and inadequates who are being paid to provide them. If they were actually any good at their jobs and weren't hell bent on raising taxes to make up for their shortcomings and keeping their gravy train on the rails, the rest of us probably wouldn't feel so beligerent about it.
But they're not and this is what's driving a wedge between the public and private sectors. Private companies wouldn't last 6 months if they didn't keep an eye on the overheads and adapt to the market. Why on earth can't public bodies adopt the same approach to balancing the books or streamlining service without resorting to threats and nauseating piety?
Its all about the money in this land of milk and honey and someone, somewhere has to earn it before you lefties can spend it on your own behalf. And to be fair, those of us that graft our nads off aren't particularly keen on funding your pensions or admin budgets and everything else that seems to take priority over your obligations as civil servants.
Why are we paying for you lot to make excuses for not doing your jobs? Rather pay someone who can alance the books and deliver value for the percentage I'm legally bound to pay.
Get with the programme Hjarrs, you've overplayed the sympathy card.

taxpayers expect value for their money. If the public sector can't or won't provide that then hand it over to someone that can.

We already have a no frills service where education, elderly care and refuse services are concerned.
The frills however are added with unnecessary bike lanes and bus lanes, unused car charging points, i360s and other eco-ego boosting vanity projects which our current councillors want to add to their CVs so they can get themselves cushy little jobs on some sort of energy trust or other eco Quango when they lose their seats.
Same faces, same selfish ambitions, We had it from the Tories and the Labour lot. Self serving career politicians.

nocando wrote:
Hjarrs has yet again provided decent ammunition against his own argument with his predictable outrage and reluctance to accept cold hard facts.
It is not the public services that he's fretting about, its the livelihoods of the leeches and inadequates who are being paid to provide them. If they were actually any good at their jobs and weren't hell bent on raising taxes to make up for their shortcomings and keeping their gravy train on the rails, the rest of us probably wouldn't feel so beligerent about it.
But they're not and this is what's driving a wedge between the public and private sectors. Private companies wouldn't last 6 months if they didn't keep an eye on the overheads and adapt to the market. Why on earth can't public bodies adopt the same approach to balancing the books or streamlining service without resorting to threats and nauseating piety?
Its all about the money in this land of milk and honey and someone, somewhere has to earn it before you lefties can spend it on your own behalf. And to be fair, those of us that graft our nads off aren't particularly keen on funding your pensions or admin budgets and everything else that seems to take priority over your obligations as civil servants.
Why are we paying for you lot to make excuses for not doing your jobs? Rather pay someone who can alance the books and deliver value for the percentage I'm legally bound to pay.
Get with the programme Hjarrs, you've overplayed the sympathy card.

The Tory program is clearly to deprive the people of B&H of democratic accountability, reduce services and to had over fat long-term contracts to their friends with little or no council tax reduction because they are idealological zealots.

Thanks to a rare insight in the Argus of local Tory policies, the Conservatives have, in one article, just lost the next election.

I would say I look forward to you Tories selling this on the doorstep, but then there are so few active that doorsteps will not be bothered by them. Labour and the Greens will make hay with this.

The Tories are not the nasty party for nothing!

But HJarrs the Greens and the Tories are very similar. Never have two parties been so aligned. Both serve a small number of wealthy, middle class self centred people who look inwardly and sod the poor. I am astonished that anyone thinks the greens are a socialist party.
They have done nothing but tear services for the elderly and the poor apart while spending six million quid on a cycle lane for a handful of rich kids from unis to cycle to college when these kids actually have cars and very nice one at that. Then you spend money on electric car charging points for people who can afford a £20,000 electric car while pushing up prices for kids to play football on a local pitch and pricing them out of Preston Park so the posh Green voters of Preston Park can sit smugly in their £600,000 homes thinking their Green councillors for keeping riff raff out of their park they clearly want as their own playground. Then your lot pushed up
Prices of allotments so it barely breaks even to grow your own food so now we have the green and blue shed brigade turning food patches into butterfly gardens because they can afford to just rent a plot for their odd day in the sun.
You can't see it can you? Posh, white, middle class people pushing out local ordinary folk.
You are Tories and what's worse is pretending to be all about the people. I have never been so disappointed by a
Party. At least we all know Tories are bastards. Your lot are more devious in their ambitions.

Maxwell's Ghost wrote:
But HJarrs the Greens and the Tories are very similar. Never have two parties been so aligned. Both serve a small number of wealthy, middle class self centred people who look inwardly and sod the poor. I am astonished that anyone thinks the greens are a socialist party. They have done nothing but tear services for the elderly and the poor apart while spending six million quid on a cycle lane for a handful of rich kids from unis to cycle to college when these kids actually have cars and very nice one at that. Then you spend money on electric car charging points for people who can afford a £20,000 electric car while pushing up prices for kids to play football on a local pitch and pricing them out of Preston Park so the posh Green voters of Preston Park can sit smugly in their £600,000 homes thinking their Green councillors for keeping riff raff out of their park they clearly want as their own playground. Then your lot pushed up Prices of allotments so it barely breaks even to grow your own food so now we have the green and blue shed brigade turning food patches into butterfly gardens because they can afford to just rent a plot for their odd day in the sun. You can't see it can you? Posh, white, middle class people pushing out local ordinary folk. You are Tories and what's worse is pretending to be all about the people. I have never been so disappointed by a Party. At least we all know Tories are bastards. Your lot are more devious in their ambitions.

Brilliant

HJarrs wrote:

Dealing with idiots wrote: I don't necessarily think it should be handed over to 'Crapita' but we could certainly save some money if the Green taliban cut out their pet projects like the I360 waste of money tower. Good on Tony, at last someone growing some spine in the Conservative group. Someone should tell Geoff that abstention is a close relative of aquiecence. I hear that someone gave all the parties a verbal kicking at last meeting of full council. Maybe some were listening?

Why weren't you honest that you are a Tory supporter when you started that frankly embarrassingly poor anti- Green petition?

LoL, I love it when you comment councillor.

george smith wrote:

Maxwell's Ghost wrote:
But HJarrs the Greens and the Tories are very similar. Never have two parties been so aligned. Both serve a small number of wealthy, middle class self centred people who look inwardly and sod the poor. I am astonished that anyone thinks the greens are a socialist party. They have done nothing but tear services for the elderly and the poor apart while spending six million quid on a cycle lane for a handful of rich kids from unis to cycle to college when these kids actually have cars and very nice one at that. Then you spend money on electric car charging points for people who can afford a £20,000 electric car while pushing up prices for kids to play football on a local pitch and pricing them out of Preston Park so the posh Green voters of Preston Park can sit smugly in their £600,000 homes thinking their Green councillors for keeping riff raff out of their park they clearly want as their own playground. Then your lot pushed up Prices of allotments so it barely breaks even to grow your own food so now we have the green and blue shed brigade turning food patches into butterfly gardens because they can afford to just rent a plot for their odd day in the sun. You can't see it can you? Posh, white, middle class people pushing out local ordinary folk. You are Tories and what's worse is pretending to be all about the people. I have never been so disappointed by a Party. At least we all know Tories are bastards. Your lot are more devious in their ambitions.

Brilliant

Same old nonsense from middle class maxwell. According to you anyone voting Green is lives in Preston Park, drives a 4x4 comes from Home Counties / dulwich. Anyone who voted Green at the last election will not recognise this and be quite insulted.

What you really don't like is that the world is changing and you feel uncomfortable with that. I can understand this. You always peddle the 'they're not one of us' line, just a version of blame the foreigner. However, as well you know people from every background voted Green and are members and the local party has more members than the rest put together. This is B&H's local party. No fat cat city sponsors, not subsidised to the hilt by trade unions or rich individuals, but funded by ordinary people.

This is the mess you get when the state takes over services and lives with the dogma that there will always be enough money to provide whatever they want to do. The only way to provide services at a consistent level is when people who use them pay directly for them. This means the people with the money can decide whether the services are really worth paying for.

Where is the rest of this article?

HJarrs, it was the wards with the wealthiest demographic in the city which voted in Green councillors and a Green MP.
Ironically these wards were the ones who opposed a recycling centre and wheelie bins and recycling boxes and park and ride.
Check out The Argus archive.
And please don't use the grubby little phrase about foreigners to discredit my name.
You and your party will stoop to any depths to try and bulldoze your views through the people.
Get into the workplace and look and listen and also cehck facts before posting personal comment dressed up as fact.

Usual scaremongering lies from the Tories, and the usual comments from the gullible people who buy all that junk.


Tories caused TRIPLE-DIP recession, whatever you blindly want to think about Labour being responsible. Ask yourself this - If its Labour's fault since they were in power, then by the same logic it must be the Tories fault for the second and third waves.

And since the VAST majority of evidence suggests it was Iceland, and lax banking rules that caused it, and since the TORIES were the ones who BLOCKED Labour's attempt at greater regulation when they were in power, I guess that means that...

...you Tories...


a) Were also to blame for the start of the recession (though Thatcher was the one who scrapped MOST banking regulations that would have PREVENTED it - (FACT Google if don't believe).


b) Lie about it daily, in a lame attempt to smear the opposition.


c) Are responsible for the following and current recessions due to incompetent Osbourne.

Oh, and..


d) Use all of the above tricks to hurt the most vulnerable - the poorest, the sick and disabled. And like rats leaving a sinking ship, are now quickly trying to sell-off everything so that when they get kicked out of office they'll be EVEN richer (Since most are already - FACT).


Which all begs the question - What kind of 'people' are you?


Seriously - take a long, hard, cold look in the mirror at yourselves. How can you live with yourselves? What would your parents have said about such behaviour?


You know inside all this is wrong. Time to change and make things better.

nocando wrote:
Hjarrs has yet again provided decent ammunition against his own argument with his predictable outrage and reluctance to accept cold hard facts.
It is not the public services that he's fretting about, its the livelihoods of the leeches and inadequates who are being paid to provide them. If they were actually any good at their jobs and weren't hell bent on raising taxes to make up for their shortcomings and keeping their gravy train on the rails, the rest of us probably wouldn't feel so beligerent about it.
But they're not and this is what's driving a wedge between the public and private sectors. Private companies wouldn't last 6 months if they didn't keep an eye on the overheads and adapt to the market. Why on earth can't public bodies adopt the same approach to balancing the books or streamlining service without resorting to threats and nauseating piety?
Its all about the money in this land of milk and honey and someone, somewhere has to earn it before you lefties can spend it on your own behalf. And to be fair, those of us that graft our nads off aren't particularly keen on funding your pensions or admin budgets and everything else that seems to take priority over your obligations as civil servants.
Why are we paying for you lot to make excuses for not doing your jobs? Rather pay someone who can alance the books and deliver value for the percentage I'm legally bound to pay.
Get with the programme Hjarrs, you've overplayed the sympathy card.

Nice to see you describe Teachers and Firemen as " leeches and inadequates." As for whether or not the Private Sector is better than the Public, the point here is that it is difficult if not impossible to run most public services at a profit - that is why the state began providing them in the first place!

The Tories don't want council tax to rise - no-one does - but they are more than happy to see services switch to the private sector, who are then free to increase bills year on year whilst making considerable profit, as we saw this week with Southern Water. Do we have a choice of water supplier? Can we vote them out if we don't like their fees and profits?

This is my article on how local Tories want to bring the Barnet model to Brighton and Hove which led to the piece in the Argus:

http://labourlist.or
g/2013/02/some-torie
s-think-barnets-easy
council-is-worth-emu
lating-heres-why-the
yre-wrong/

Apart my soldiering, my work has been in the private sector for the last 20 odd years. This has meant working for rich men. Rich men provide jobs for those of us prepared to work. These rich men are hampered by state paid lefties with clipboards dreaming up ever more imaginitive ways to legislate money from their business operations. Ultimately this trickles down to real workers losing their jobs because the rich man's been stung by the lefties and he can't justify the wages.
The fact that the tories are perceived to favour the rich is purely because they understand the way that money is earnt and look to stimulate enterprise and reduce the state's financial and legislative burden on rich men who provide jobs.
They want people to get rich through hard work and initiative and that means tickling the wealth at source. Thatcher's very simple mantra of small state, low tax created a lot of wealth and livelihoods. And before you bang on about miners you should consider the fact that if there were any taxpayer funded square wheel factories she'd have shut those down too.
All taxpayers money is ultimately generated by rich men. That's where it comes from, it has to be earnt in the first place. Labour and the lefties should stop trying to spend it at the same time as jealously strangling it at source and jeopardising working peoples. livelihoods.
The sheer wrong headedness of the left's understanding of economics is reason alone to vote tory.