Fears of jobs exodus from Brighton and Hove (From The Argus)

Rapacious developers would not put the housing where it is needed or strategically in the interests of the city as a whole if given absolute freedom to convert whatever offices they can get their hands on for conversion to flats.

They would just grab prime sites! No brainer and well said Jason on this!

That said, I firmly believe that the stretch of commercial premises from the Old Steine, along North Street, Western Road and Church Road (one long road) to Hove Street are overpopulated by commercial premises beneath empty upper storey areas of significance.

These should be taken out of commercial use and the whole buildings converted to housing to create a more mixed environment. Preferably by reinstating historic featues in the removal of shopfronts.

If you want to know just how ruthless the Govt is getting on the planning front, go to www.savehove.wordpre
ss.com and look at the Right to Light post which flags up a Law Commission consultation about tinkering with reducing that too!

Valerie Paynter wrote:
Rapacious developers would not put the housing where it is needed or strategically in the interests of the city as a whole if given absolute freedom to convert whatever offices they can get their hands on for conversion to flats.

They would just grab prime sites! No brainer and well said Jason on this!

That said, I firmly believe that the stretch of commercial premises from the Old Steine, along North Street, Western Road and Church Road (one long road) to Hove Street are overpopulated by commercial premises beneath empty upper storey areas of significance.

These should be taken out of commercial use and the whole buildings converted to housing to create a more mixed environment. Preferably by reinstating historic featues in the removal of shopfronts.

If you want to know just how ruthless the Govt is getting on the planning front, go to www.savehove.wordpre

ss.com and look at the Right to Light post which flags up a Law Commission consultation about tinkering with reducing that too!

Absolutely, the office above much of church road were originally housing not offices.

No one could possibly know how painfully humiliating it is to have to agree to anything Kitkat has to say but he does have a point to be fair.
Fortunately I don't do fair!

mark by the sea wrote:

Valerie Paynter wrote:
Rapacious developers would not put the housing where it is needed or strategically in the interests of the city as a whole if given absolute freedom to convert whatever offices they can get their hands on for conversion to flats.

They would just grab prime sites! No brainer and well said Jason on this!

That said, I firmly believe that the stretch of commercial premises from the Old Steine, along North Street, Western Road and Church Road (one long road) to Hove Street are overpopulated by commercial premises beneath empty upper storey areas of significance.

These should be taken out of commercial use and the whole buildings converted to housing to create a more mixed environment. Preferably by reinstating historic featues in the removal of shopfronts.

If you want to know just how ruthless the Govt is getting on the planning front, go to www.savehove.wordpre


ss.com and look at the Right to Light post which flags up a Law Commission consultation about tinkering with reducing that too!

Absolutely, the office above much of church road were originally housing not offices.

One of the problems with Western Rd and Church Rd is that a lot of the shops are Restaurants and Fast Food Outlets so housing above them could require expensive machinery to evacuate food smells above the roof line.The City definitely needs a few more Schools and Accommodation.When are the Council going to do something about the Buildings in Preston Rd.Why don't the Council Sell off Kings House,
The Town Halls; Bartholomews and move there

1,000 business's forced out is an appalling over estimate...& why has no'one mentioned the improved profitability if all businesses that remain from the increase in residents on their doorstep, no more bankrupts?

ShorehamBeachcomber wrote:
1,000 business's forced out is an appalling over estimate...& why has no'one mentioned the improved profitability if all businesses that remain from the increase in residents on their doorstep, no more bankrupts?

Presumably you have evidence to support these assertions? with regard to"The businesses that remain" - we are not just talking about shops, we are also talking about general office space where profitability is not linked to the residential density in the area.

Typical nonesense from Mr.KitKat. This would be the leader of the council that is putting up Council Tax and stating £25M of savings need to be made each year for the next five years yet they have just in effect given £14M to the i360 and are spending willy-nilly on hair brained and unnecessary road schemes. Then along he comes and makes ridiculous claims about 1000's of buisnesses being forced out becuase of a move to re-rask property. Please for the love of God get these lunatics away from my money!

B&H as a location gets what it deserves.
Yesterday's news, lost the title of drug death capital, today illusory loss of non-existent jobs.
Glad my daily route only nudges into the B&H boundary and thankfully out of it within 3 miles!!

One of the other difficulties with allowing the unregulated change from office to residential use, is the knock on effect on local services. For example, the new residents may need schools, doctors' surgeries, car parking etc. This is why local authorities have strategic plans, so that these things are factored in.

What an utter nonsense scaremongering story!

There is plenty of small office space in Brighton, try looking at half the offices in Queens road that are currently empty, namely by junction with Surrey Street, and the larger offices which were extended by 6 floors at the rear on Frederick Street recently.

The problem is a lack of SUITABLE LARGE spaces for offices, not the crummy little ones which basically aren't suitable for companies of any size.

Rather than moaning, why don't the council just insist that the old Amex Building which has around 1500 or so people working there be KEPT and NOT DEMOLISHED in 2 years time.

Such a simple solution, and would provide space for a number of large companies.

The Greens should just stop talking rot these changes would not affect anyone, as it just wouldn't happen, especially as a lot of office buildings are owned by pension funds as long term guaranteed investments not quick gain / quick turnover!

The Greens are clueless about business. Do they have any idea about how much commercial property is untenanted, has been for some time, and has no reasonable prospect of being so. Just walk some of the streets in Hove. Spent 5 minutes talking to a commercial estate agent and you’ll soon understand. We need more housing, more jobs, not more offices and not empty offices/retail premises.

Absolute tosh, if anything there is too much office space that goes unused for years. I doubt even that given this role it will increase the housing developments but we will see. They arent going to develop a building that is already housed with office workers are they!!

Am I missing something, there are loads of empty shops and offices, and we supposedly have a housing shortage. With internet shopping, expensive parking and people working from home, Iwould have thought it unlikely they ever will be filled

Lots of empty office space and a shortage of living space - the solution is obvious. Also the conversion of empty office space would bring people back into the city centre and create a place that is not empty of people other than the drunks. It makes far more sense to be flexible with such planning issues and make it far easier to change property use between commercial and private.

We have lots of empty office spaces and people struggling to find flats paying over-inflated rents. It seems a very good idea to convert office space and so improve areas. It will also provide employment while converting and managing

Businesses are leaving Brighton and many have never been here. Why? Well the difficulty living and working here. Expensive rents, high travel costs, parking

If the greens are on the side of business then let's see cheaper parking

If the greens support those looking for somewhere to live at an affordable price then lets see more flats. Not oppose them. Or work with developers to get good mix of affordable housing

My experience trying to find office space in Brighton for a growing business was terrible. Most of the office space for a medium 10-person business was woefully inadequate or outrageously expensive once business rates were factored in.

Too many landlords of small commercial properties still regard them as an asset class that should have a contracted long term income stream. That's just not a realistic expectation of the modern growing businesses who could be prospective tenants. Not in today's economy.

My solution was to move my business to London, which is costly but worth it for the benefits of the capital that Brighton does not have, and have Brighton staff work flexibly from home with the occasional off peak commute.

I would propose that business rates are doubled for empty properties to give landlords incentive to either get them refurbished to an attractive standard or to reduce their rents and make their terms more flexible to get businesses occupying them.

Kitkat is predictably off the mark with his analysis of where the problem lies.

Perhaps councils need to wake to the fact that they are not long for the chop as no buisnesses mean eventually no buisness rates . Wakey ,wakey councils makes me cry for years and even this year they want more of our money to spend but do not care where its coming from. well in New Zealand some years ago people voted for candidates that on election fired the whole council staff and councillors and do you know what the world did not end . Then they started again with only essentials first. No minority liasion officers, translators etc and thats sadly whats required in Britain again now.

Quite quite incredible... Mr. Kitcat and his current council colleagues are doing everything they can to resist motor vehicles from entering the town area, which in turn means that many businesses are having to look at relocation out of the Brighton conurbation due to staff unable or unwilling to rely on the dubious capabilities of local public transport, allied to horrific business rates that cripple many smaller enterprises and then they have the absolute audacity to whinge about largely unused (and frequently unusable) office stock being converted into residential use!
It is my sincere belief that the sooner these inept people are removed from office, the sooner Brighton can move forward again... but not until!

Far gull wrote:
Perhaps councils need to wake to the fact that they are not long for the chop as no buisnesses mean eventually no buisness rates . Wakey ,wakey councils makes me cry for years and even this year they want more of our money to spend but do not care where its coming from. well in New Zealand some years ago people voted for candidates that on election fired the whole council staff and councillors and do you know what the world did not end . Then they started again with only essentials first. No minority liasion officers, translators etc and thats sadly whats required in Britain again now.

Completely agree Far Gull, wipe the slate clean and start again, we've got too many useless pen pushers in office

El Duderino wrote:

Far gull wrote:
Perhaps councils need to wake to the fact that they are not long for the chop as no buisnesses mean eventually no buisness rates . Wakey ,wakey councils makes me cry for years and even this year they want more of our money to spend but do not care where its coming from. well in New Zealand some years ago people voted for candidates that on election fired the whole council staff and councillors and do you know what the world did not end . Then they started again with only essentials first. No minority liasion officers, translators etc and thats sadly whats required in Britain again now.

Completely agree Far Gull, wipe the slate clean and start again, we've got too many useless pen pushers in office

Yes - put George Osborne in charge - whoops, he is.
Pound sliding, credit rating degraded, exports falling, banks paying bonuses of £760 million despite a £4 billion loss.......its all going so well, with the Tories and the Bankers running the economic future of our country.

ourcoalition wrote:

El Duderino wrote:

Far gull wrote:
Perhaps councils need to wake to the fact that they are not long for the chop as no buisnesses mean eventually no buisness rates . Wakey ,wakey councils makes me cry for years and even this year they want more of our money to spend but do not care where its coming from. well in New Zealand some years ago people voted for candidates that on election fired the whole council staff and councillors and do you know what the world did not end . Then they started again with only essentials first. No minority liasion officers, translators etc and thats sadly whats required in Britain again now.

Completely agree Far Gull, wipe the slate clean and start again, we've got too many useless pen pushers in office

Yes - put George Osborne in charge - whoops, he is.
Pound sliding, credit rating degraded, exports falling, banks paying bonuses of £760 million despite a £4 billion loss.......its all going so well, with the Tories and the Bankers running the economic future of our country.

I didn't exclude Tories from the chop either!!!!!!

ourcoalition wrote:

El Duderino wrote:

Far gull wrote:
Perhaps councils need to wake to the fact that they are not long for the chop as no buisnesses mean eventually no buisness rates . Wakey ,wakey councils makes me cry for years and even this year they want more of our money to spend but do not care where its coming from. well in New Zealand some years ago people voted for candidates that on election fired the whole council staff and councillors and do you know what the world did not end . Then they started again with only essentials first. No minority liasion officers, translators etc and thats sadly whats required in Britain again now.

Completely agree Far Gull, wipe the slate clean and start again, we've got too many useless pen pushers in office

Yes - put George Osborne in charge - whoops, he is.
Pound sliding, credit rating degraded, exports falling, banks paying bonuses of £760 million despite a £4 billion loss.......its all going so well, with the Tories and the Bankers running the economic future of our country.

You really should review your posts and then maybe when you see how stupid they are you might stop posting absolute drivel.

Somethingsarejustwro
ng wrote:

ourcoalition wrote:

El Duderino wrote:

Far gull wrote:
Perhaps councils need to wake to the fact that they are not long for the chop as no buisnesses mean eventually no buisness rates . Wakey ,wakey councils makes me cry for years and even this year they want more of our money to spend but do not care where its coming from. well in New Zealand some years ago people voted for candidates that on election fired the whole council staff and councillors and do you know what the world did not end . Then they started again with only essentials first. No minority liasion officers, translators etc and thats sadly whats required in Britain again now.

Completely agree Far Gull, wipe the slate clean and start again, we've got too many useless pen pushers in office

Yes - put George Osborne in charge - whoops, he is.
Pound sliding, credit rating degraded, exports falling, banks paying bonuses of £760 million despite a £4 billion loss.......its all going so well, with the Tories and the Bankers running the economic future of our country.

You really should review your posts and then maybe when you see how stupid they are you might stop posting absolute drivel.

and your point is exactly?

Valerie Paynter is on the money as usual. This is ill thought out desperate policy making from a Tory party in the hands of financiers and developers and soon for the chop. However, they will continue to damage this country right up to the next election.

The city has a masterplan, debated, consulted and voted upon only recently. Areas have been identified for different uses including thousands of residential properties. I don't think anyone would turn away well considered conversions of use but, in a city like B&H greedy developers will run amock with no regard for how our democratically elected representatives have proposed what the future city should look like. A fast buck for the few will curtail the economic growth of the city; if and when the economy picks up, where will be the space for business?

It was exactly this type of unbridled greed for a quick development buck that caused the council to buy up all the land surrounding the city to protect the water supply.

Somethingsarejustwro
ng wrote:

ourcoalition wrote:

El Duderino wrote:

Far gull wrote:
Perhaps councils need to wake to the fact that they are not long for the chop as no buisnesses mean eventually no buisness rates . Wakey ,wakey councils makes me cry for years and even this year they want more of our money to spend but do not care where its coming from. well in New Zealand some years ago people voted for candidates that on election fired the whole council staff and councillors and do you know what the world did not end . Then they started again with only essentials first. No minority liasion officers, translators etc and thats sadly whats required in Britain again now.

Completely agree Far Gull, wipe the slate clean and start again, we've got too many useless pen pushers in office

Yes - put George Osborne in charge - whoops, he is.
Pound sliding, credit rating degraded, exports falling, banks paying bonuses of £760 million despite a £4 billion loss.......its all going so well, with the Tories and the Bankers running the economic future of our country.

You really should review your posts and then maybe when you see how stupid they are you might stop posting absolute drivel.

Bizarre. Can only assume you must work for the council .Who (if you work for them) would obviously be against my proposal. Hope to God 51% of B&H residents don't work for them or plan will fail :-).
Just a thought for you council lovers,and others against the Albion having a new ground for 25+ years bet your feeling proud of how they are doing now. Shame it took so b.... Long for your all to see then benefits it would bring to the city . I rest my case

1000 businesses forced out. They've already been forced out, that's why the space is empty.

mustaphaLeeko wrote:
What an utter nonsense scaremongering story!

There is plenty of small office space in Brighton, try looking at half the offices in Queens road that are currently empty, namely by junction with Surrey Street, and the larger offices which were extended by 6 floors at the rear on Frederick Street recently.

The problem is a lack of SUITABLE LARGE spaces for offices, not the crummy little ones which basically aren't suitable for companies of any size.

Rather than moaning, why don't the council just insist that the old Amex Building which has around 1500 or so people working there be KEPT and NOT DEMOLISHED in 2 years time.

Such a simple solution, and would provide space for a number of large companies.

The Greens should just stop talking rot these changes would not affect anyone, as it just wouldn't happen, especially as a lot of office buildings are owned by pension funds as long term guaranteed investments not quick gain / quick turnover!

Amex building has asbestos, has to go

Tailgaters Anonymous wrote:
B&H as a location gets what it deserves.
Yesterday's news, lost the title of drug death capital, today illusory loss of non-existent jobs.
Glad my daily route only nudges into the B&H boundary and thankfully out of it within 3 miles!!

Do tell us which exciting and dynamic places you travel to and from each day then?

Far gull wrote:

Somethingsarejustwro

ng wrote:

ourcoalition wrote:

El Duderino wrote:

Far gull wrote:
Perhaps councils need to wake to the fact that they are not long for the chop as no buisnesses mean eventually no buisness rates . Wakey ,wakey councils makes me cry for years and even this year they want more of our money to spend but do not care where its coming from. well in New Zealand some years ago people voted for candidates that on election fired the whole council staff and councillors and do you know what the world did not end . Then they started again with only essentials first. No minority liasion officers, translators etc and thats sadly whats required in Britain again now.

Completely agree Far Gull, wipe the slate clean and start again, we've got too many useless pen pushers in office

Yes - put George Osborne in charge - whoops, he is.
Pound sliding, credit rating degraded, exports falling, banks paying bonuses of £760 million despite a £4 billion loss.......its all going so well, with the Tories and the Bankers running the economic future of our country.

You really should review your posts and then maybe when you see how stupid they are you might stop posting absolute drivel.

Bizarre. Can only assume you must work for the council .Who (if you work for them) would obviously be against my proposal. Hope to God 51% of B&H residents don't work for them or plan will fail :-).
Just a thought for you council lovers,and others against the Albion having a new ground for 25+ years bet your feeling proud of how they are doing now. Shame it took so b.... Long for your all to see then benefits it would bring to the city . I rest my case

Hi Far Gull

My comments were not targeting you but, ourcoalition, who spouts absolute nonsense from a position of apparent left wing extremism. When the benefits gravy train reaches the end of the line people like her will be forced to contribute rather than just moan about people who are actually doing something.

Strange, when I walk or drive around Brighton I'm amazed at the number of empty commercial premises. That would suggest there is too much. We don't have enough housing so common sense suggests we use some of the abundance of empty commercial properties to address this issue.

I note that Cllr Kicat doesn't mention how many businesses the policy of high parking charges has driven away. A couple of years ago I was involved in looking for new premises for my company and we very quickly excluded Brighton and Hove as a key requirement was free parking and easy access for cars. Something this council is rapidly making impossible to find in this city.

You could make a comedy out of this stuff. The council has been asking for empty office space to be converted into housing. Now this is possible the council is claiming that this will mean jobs leaving the city. The offices are empty and in a grotty state in areas of the city where I cannot imagine anybody wanting to live. Modern business needs up-to-date facilities which is why so many relatively new office blocks get redeveloped. People also need modern housing in better areas than these. The only thing the centre of Brighton needs is full demolition and redevelopment.

Okay ... that is it! Enough is enough. Stop picking on poor Jason Kitcat. His entire life he has been trained to FOCUS and he is so good at focusing that he can see what is directly in front of him and utterly fail to see what is in the peripheries. It is not his fault that he cannot be consistent. Nor is it his fault that he isn't very good at joining the dots, seeing implications, inherent ramifications or consequences.

He was brought up in the essay writing principle where it doesn't matter whether your argument is right or wrong ... all that matters is that your argument flows, cites the correct sources and has few spelling errors.

You are too kind mimseycal. I think he phones his dad every night and asks what to do. If you see him interviewed it's excruciating. He's inarticulate and content light.
His grouo can't even get recycling collected let alone deliver anything of any complexity.

Mea culpa, mea culpa, mea maxima culpa ...

The poll attached to this story must be a reading comprehension test - everyone agrees that we need more housing, and no-one is arguing that houses should be converted into office space, simply that if you want a healthy local economy it is obvious you need to retain office and retail space in the city centre.

Additional housing is on the way through schemes at Preston Barracks and Toads Hole Valley.

Brighton & Hove is also doing better than other places when it comes to shop closures in the recession - 6% last year compared to national average of 14.3%

Eugenius, you are forgetting all the closures in Brighton for the last 3-4 years.

You can't put this 6% figure on already vacated premises.

We have massive puropose built offices sitting empty for years, like the one in Church Street, Tichborne Road.

Do those fitness companies that operate out of preston park pay anything to use the park, the websites even give the park as the place to meet. They are country wide opganisations. Our can we all roll up in a van and start trading from the park?

HJarrs - I just loved the idea of 'our democratically elected representatives”. They may well be elected democratically (although some would disagree), but they certainly do not act democratically. Our local democracy is an illusion as when the councillor or MPs gets in office then then seem to simply ignore what people may what. Most ably demonstrated by the interference of national politics (that is political parties) into local issue. I want a local council that focuses on providing the services needed for our area and nothing more. No left/right/green. No gender issues. No male/female/whatever
. Just keep to the primary role and NOTHING ELSE.

This is the same prat that allows his ideological crusade against the nasty motorist to strangle the City center Economy
There is a desperate shortage of housing and an alarmingly high amount of empty office/business premises
Some of it could be converted to homes without any adverse effect

upsidedowntuctuc wrote:
This is the same prat that allows his ideological crusade against the nasty motorist to strangle the City center Economy
There is a desperate shortage of housing and an alarmingly high amount of empty office/business premises
Some of it could be converted to homes without any adverse effect

Take a break, kitty cat!

RottingdeanRant wrote:
HJarrs - I just loved the idea of 'our democratically elected representatives”. They may well be elected democratically (although some would disagree), but they certainly do not act democratically. Our local democracy is an illusion as when the councillor or MPs gets in office then then seem to simply ignore what people may what. Most ably demonstrated by the interference of national politics (that is political parties) into local issue. I want a local council that focuses on providing the services needed for our area and nothing more. No left/right/green. No gender issues. No male/female/whatever

. Just keep to the primary role and NOTHING ELSE.

Best post on here for ages. I also wish they would focus on local issues and forget the political agenda. The Green Party are the worst for this by far. Just run the city and stop trying to force your political ideology down our throats!

Previously I would have had agreement with some of the Green Party manifesto - but not anymore. It's like having a bunch of students in charge who have no idea about the real world and who constantly call you a facist - just like Rick out of The Young Ones.

Resident in Hanover wrote:

upsidedowntuctuc wrote:
This is the same prat that allows his ideological crusade against the nasty motorist to strangle the City center Economy
There is a desperate shortage of housing and an alarmingly high amount of empty office/business premises
Some of it could be converted to homes without any adverse effect

Take a break, kitty cat!

I blame the Green council for absolutely everything that goes wrong in Brighton