Three Albion fans thrown out of Amex and arrested (From The Argus)

"Standing at football matches has been outlawed since the Hillsborough disaster in 1989."

Poor, poor reporting. Standing at football matches has not be outlawed - unless of course The Argus can provide the act of parliament that did so ???

It is against FA and FL regulations to stand in a seated area while play in happening but that isn't outlawed.

If it really was outlawed then the Police would arrest people for standing - they don't - the only thing that happens is you are ejected by the club.

If the FA and the clubs had their way it would just be families at games its the way its going Im afraid, the good old days are gone

Standing at football has NOT been 'outlawed'. Standing whilst a match is in progress is perfectly legal and even the most law-abiding fans usually get on their feet to celebrate a goal!

'Persistent standing is not allowed (although it is not illegal). There is a current debate in the game as to what constitutes 'persistent' standing which is very much a grey area and is down to individual interpretation. Also what gets most fans' backs up is the fact that the regulations are unevenly applied - away fans are never made to sit down for example. Sauce for the goose and all that.

Standing has been outlawed in the Prem and Championship. However if promoted from league one, the club has three years to comply.

Lots of clubs would like to trial safe standing areas, however this is strongly opposed by members of the Hillsborough Families Support Group.

Having said that, this tragedy happened due to over filling the ground, not because it was all standing.

If this is an option in the future, then make the North Stand all standing.

Personally I prefer the seats to the all standing days when at half time all you had was a concrete step to sit on.

Never mind what's outlawed and what's not, what does this mean?

Quote:
Two fans from the North Stand were ejected from the stadium for standing during the game against Huddersfield on Saturday and were both subsequently charged with public order offences. One was released without charge.
Unquote.

Two fans were ejected; both were charged, yet one was released without charge..

I see what you're saying kkj, this has to be one of the worst written stories I have seen on here.

http://www.fsf.org.u
k/media/uploaded/Leg
alities-of-standing.
pdf

This may still be valid?

Thanks for that Plantpot.

It seems really hard to enforce.

The trouble is if some people stand up in front of you it naturally starts mexican wave of standing.

The best thing the North Stand can do is all stand up in protest. You cant throw 3000 people out the ground.

Good idea in theory Hovite but in reality would more than likely lead to a loss of the safety certificate and then nobody would be allowed in!!

Yep, good point, there is the H&S that the club has to consider and it is part of the supporters contract when purchasing a ticket. I guess you can get dragged out of the stadium kicking and screaming your innocence, or understand the clubs position and sit down.

Swansea are trying to get a safe standing area where it looks like in place of 1000 seats they could get 1800 standing. This is more to do with increasing the stadium capacity than fans wanting to stand.

south1919 wrote:
If the FA and the clubs had their way it would just be families at games its the way its going Im afraid, the good old days are gone

Outstanding post and so true my friend.They have taken the game away from the man in the street so to say.The game was all about passion in my day,and thats why i fell in love with it in the first place.Now its more about rich upper middle class people that care more about getting food & drink at half time.Most of them are still stuffing their faces when the second half kicks off.But what upsets me more is when the team needs them most in the last 10 mins of the game they all seem to start making their way home lol.Bring the good old days back please.The fans should stay with their team until the end.

Why do you think there are seats. I always thought that seat were for sitting in!!!

Hovite wrote:
Yep, good point, there is the H&S that the club has to consider and it is part of the supporters contract when purchasing a ticket. I guess you can get dragged out of the stadium kicking and screaming your innocence, or understand the clubs position and sit down.

Swansea are trying to get a safe standing area where it looks like in place of 1000 seats they could get 1800 standing. This is more to do with increasing the stadium capacity than fans wanting to stand.

Outstanding post Mr,Hovite.But i think you will still be with me on this one.There needs to be some understanding of the passion that comes with the game.When that ball hits the net the first thing any football fan wants to do it stand lol,and lots more in some cases.

Hovite wrote:
Standing has been outlawed in the Prem and Championship. However if promoted from league one, the club has three years to comply.

Lots of clubs would like to trial safe standing areas, however this is strongly opposed by members of the Hillsborough Families Support Group.

Having said that, this tragedy happened due to over filling the ground, not because it was all standing.

If this is an option in the future, then make the North Stand all standing.

Personally I prefer the seats to the all standing days when at half time all you had was a concrete step to sit on.

It's worth repeating that standing has not been 'outlawed'. If you stand up at a football match (which people do all the time for myriad reasons - not least to leave 5 minutes before the end) you will not be arrested like you would be if you murdered someone for example. Call me a pernickity old pedant if you like but it's an important distinction.

Jimmy Stewart's Imaginary Rabbit wrote:

Hovite wrote:
Standing has been outlawed in the Prem and Championship. However if promoted from league one, the club has three years to comply.

Lots of clubs would like to trial safe standing areas, however this is strongly opposed by members of the Hillsborough Families Support Group.

Having said that, this tragedy happened due to over filling the ground, not because it was all standing.

If this is an option in the future, then make the North Stand all standing.

Personally I prefer the seats to the all standing days when at half time all you had was a concrete step to sit on.

It's worth repeating that standing has not been 'outlawed'. If you stand up at a football match (which people do all the time for myriad reasons - not least to leave 5 minutes before the end) you will not be arrested like you would be if you murdered someone for example. Call me a pernickity old pedant if you like but it's an important distinction.

Your also 100% correct.

Freeloaders wrote:

south1919 wrote:
If the FA and the clubs had their way it would just be families at games its the way its going Im afraid, the good old days are gone

Outstanding post and so true my friend.They have taken the game away from the man in the street so to say.The game was all about passion in my day,and thats why i fell in love with it in the first place.Now its more about rich upper middle class people that care more about getting food & drink at half time.Most of them are still stuffing their faces when the second half kicks off.But what upsets me more is when the team needs them most in the last 10 mins of the game they all seem to start making their way home lol.Bring the good old days back please.The fans should stay with their team until the end.

I'm in a wheelchair but as far as I'm concerned, there is nothing wrong with fans standing up in celebration of an Albion goal. I know I'd be jumping up if I was able to.

What's unfair to these fans who have been tossed out for standng for a GOAL, is the sight of away fans who the vast majority stand for the entire 90 mins...yet Albion supporters stand for a goal and out you get! It's just so wrong.

I see what you are saying JSIR about standing where seats are provided.

I guess the difference is that the Prem and the Championship clubs have to legally be all seater. However as you say, standing in a seated area is different from having standing areas, which is outlawed.

rmp253 wrote:

Freeloaders wrote:

south1919 wrote:
If the FA and the clubs had their way it would just be families at games its the way its going Im afraid, the good old days are gone

Outstanding post and so true my friend.They have taken the game away from the man in the street so to say.The game was all about passion in my day,and thats why i fell in love with it in the first place.Now its more about rich upper middle class people that care more about getting food & drink at half time.Most of them are still stuffing their faces when the second half kicks off.But what upsets me more is when the team needs them most in the last 10 mins of the game they all seem to start making their way home lol.Bring the good old days back please.The fans should stay with their team until the end.

I'm in a wheelchair but as far as I'm concerned, there is nothing wrong with fans standing up in celebration of an Albion goal. I know I'd be jumping up if I was able to.

What's unfair to these fans who have been tossed out for standng for a GOAL, is the sight of away fans who the vast majority stand for the entire 90 mins...yet Albion supporters stand for a goal and out you get! It's just so wrong.

Outstanding my friend,and you are 100% spot on.Its people like you that make the game so special in many ways.I hope you are enjoying every min of being Albion fan right now,apart from this rubbish.Enjoy my friend,but like you said,"Its just so wrong."

It's NOT outlawed !!!!!

Show the legislation that outlaws it ?

It's FA and FL regulations and safety certificates that prevent it NOT a law.

Jimmy Stewart's Imaginary Rabbit wrote:
Standing at football has NOT been 'outlawed'. Standing whilst a match is in progress is perfectly legal and even the most law-abiding fans usually get on their feet to celebrate a goal!

'Persistent standing is not allowed (although it is not illegal). There is a current debate in the game as to what constitutes 'persistent' standing which is very much a grey area and is down to individual interpretation. Also what gets most fans' backs up is the fact that the regulations are unevenly applied - away fans are never made to sit down for example. Sauce for the goose and all that.

Well said JSIR, the Albion need to get their act together, why should the away fans be allowed to stand and the Albion's not, let's have some common sense here and stop alienating your own loyal supporters. I go to many away matches and we are NOT forced to sit down despite your so called Rules and Regulations. Be careful Albion's loyal fans will only take so much. Yorkshire Seagull, Season Ticket Holder and loyal fan for 51 Years.

michael505 wrote:
Why do you think there are seats. I always thought that seat were for sitting in!!!

No North Stander asked for a seat, take them out, bring back Standing Areas.

Brighton Bill wrote:

Jimmy Stewart's Imaginary Rabbit wrote:
Standing at football has NOT been 'outlawed'. Standing whilst a match is in progress is perfectly legal and even the most law-abiding fans usually get on their feet to celebrate a goal!

'Persistent standing is not allowed (although it is not illegal). There is a current debate in the game as to what constitutes 'persistent' standing which is very much a grey area and is down to individual interpretation. Also what gets most fans' backs up is the fact that the regulations are unevenly applied - away fans are never made to sit down for example. Sauce for the goose and all that.

Well said JSIR, the Albion need to get their act together, why should the away fans be allowed to stand and the Albion's not, let's have some common sense here and stop alienating your own loyal supporters. I go to many away matches and we are NOT forced to sit down despite your so called Rules and Regulations. Be careful Albion's loyal fans will only take so much. Yorkshire Seagull, Season Ticket Holder and loyal fan for 51 Years.

I think you will find that the reason that away fans are not ejected at any ground is its better to have them all corralled in one place where they can be controlled rather than roaming around town with a couple of hours to kill before their transport home and a massive grudge because they have been ejected.

I was in the north stand on Saturday. The way in which the stewards were conducting themselves was terrible. On every occasion that people were told to sit down was just before or just after a scoring opportunity. The person ejected for throwing a bottle onto the pitch on two occasions shouldn't be allowed back. What he did was dangerous and illegal.
But people standing?! Last season it was very tolerant with regard to standing but as this season has progressed, the "no standing" guideline has been enforced with an aggressive manor on occasions.

sound_man wrote:
I was in the north stand on Saturday. The way in which the stewards were conducting themselves was terrible. On every occasion that people were told to sit down was just before or just after a scoring opportunity. The person ejected for throwing a bottle onto the pitch on two occasions shouldn't be allowed back. What he did was dangerous and illegal.
But people standing?! Last season it was very tolerant with regard to standing but as this season has progressed, the "no standing" guideline has been enforced with an aggressive manor on occasions.

Did that bottle, (there were two actually) really come from the West Stand Lower (Police said), to me it looked like it came from the North Stand, and I agree we do NOT want any of that sort of behaviour at our ground...We have a number of other problems as well which don't get any response ie, massive queues outside Dick's Bar, yet again running out of Beer, I thought the idea was for fans to have a drink afterwards, how can you when you have run out, I spoke to the Manager in charge and he just could not give me an answer to this
re occurring problem.

Further to the above, I am NOT talking Lager but Real Ale.

Yep, two bottles for sure. I saw them both land and they looked like they came from the west lower. Running out of beer seems common then! I revived a cloudy pint of Harvey's after the game, asked for an alternative and was offered fosters! I opted for mineral water

From the direction I saw them land, I don't think it was possible for them to been thrown from the north.

sound_man wrote:
From the direction I saw them land, I don't think it was possible for them to been thrown from the north.

You must be right then, still a stupid thing to do, do we serve bottles?

Plastic bottles. I'd hate to see soft drinks being restricted to just the concourse due to the actions of one individual.

I know I won't be popular to say this, but I'm not saying it to make friends.
Sometimes even the HOME supporters are out of order. If they were ejected, they were ejected for a reason. If the Police arrested them outside then they arrested them for a reason.
No copper wants all that paperwork unless absolutely neccessary, and doubly so as they are now stretched to the limit with cutbacks etc.
Yes, I have worked at the Amex now and again and I would not put up with seeing a supporter, either home or away, throw something on the pitch to disrupt the game and subsequently everyone else's enjoyment of the game. They would be ejected immediately as quickly and as safely as possible. If they wish to continue behaving as such outside the stadium then the Police will get involved.
How about instead of complaining about the rules, you play by the rules and make it an enjoyable experience for everyone.

We must be up there with Millwall and Leeds for arrests and ejections this year, due to stewarding in the North rather than bad behaviour by our fans. P.S. The Bottle is out of order and is a totally different one-off matter.

PWA - With a possible few exceptions, nobody gets arrested for no reason. I also appreciate that you're referring to this season. However, historically this has not been the case:

2010/11 season:
BHAFC - 8 Arrests
Millwall - 51 Arrests
Leeds - 149 Arrests

2010/11 season:
BHAFC - 4 Banning orders
Leeds - 18 Banning orders
Millwall - 19 Banning orders
Source - Home Office

I appreciate that when these figures were gathered, BHA were playing at the Withdean with a capacity of 8,850, compared with Millwall's 20,146 and Leeds' 37,900 so as a percentage you would almost expect the arrests / banning orders to be higher.

Back to the original issue, you ARE allowed to stand during parts of the match, I wouldn't want to sit down to celebrate a goal myself. During quieter moments of the match you are expected to remain seated and the stewards and security are there to ensure this happens.
You may think that we are being jobsworths, but we are there to make sure that the Amex adheres to their licensing conditions to the letter and that everyone enjoys themselves safely.
Without security and stewards in place there would be NO match at all. Same goes for pubs and clubs. Without us making sure that the LAW is adhered to, there would be no football matches, no clubs, no pubs, no festivals, no street parties etc.

jimthedoorman wrote:
PWA - With a possible few exceptions, nobody gets arrested for no reason. I also appreciate that you're referring to this season. However, historically this has not been the case:

2010/11 season:
BHAFC - 8 Arrests
Millwall - 51 Arrests
Leeds - 149 Arrests

2010/11 season:
BHAFC - 4 Banning orders
Leeds - 18 Banning orders
Millwall - 19 Banning orders
Source - Home Office

I appreciate that when these figures were gathered, BHA were playing at the Withdean with a capacity of 8,850, compared with Millwall's 20,146 and Leeds' 37,900 so as a percentage you would almost expect the arrests / banning orders to be higher.

Back to the original issue, you ARE allowed to stand during parts of the match, I wouldn't want to sit down to celebrate a goal myself. During quieter moments of the match you are expected to remain seated and the stewards and security are there to ensure this happens.
You may think that we are being jobsworths, but we are there to make sure that the Amex adheres to their licensing conditions to the letter and that everyone enjoys themselves safely.
Without security and stewards in place there would be NO match at all. Same goes for pubs and clubs. Without us making sure that the LAW is adhered to, there would be no football matches, no clubs, no pubs, no festivals, no street parties etc.

Jim a straight point to you, I ran a successful pub for 6 years, I didn't need doorman, in fact during that time I only had to call the police twice, I actually apologised for calling them them and this Police Insp said we know who calls us and who doesn't, they want you to keep your own house in order and truly respect you for doing so, the point I am making is why treat us all with contempt, how are we so different to Rugby fans, why can't we drink beer in the stands like they do, why can't you treat us with respect and understanding and as sensible adults like the majority are.

Bill, because the licensing law says so, sadly. It really is a case of the few spoiling it for the many that these have come in to place.
If there are stewards treating you with contempt, report them as this isn't what we're about.