Fears for historic Brighton pub (From The Argus)

If people are so worried about their communiteis why not have some real shops in the area The Butcher the Baker the Greengrocer

Private enterprise was the best for the consumer. As rolivan stated, the butcher, baker, greengrocer all were committed to keeping their customers happy. These mega stores and businesses are so unaccountable to the consumer. You had a problem with a purchase from an independant store owner you received satisfaction to your complaint. Because the independant owner knew that word would spread and their business would be hurt. Try getting satisfation with the mega stores, if you can find a manager to take your complaint. Then you have to spend your time filling out needless bits of paperwork for them to pursue the issue and maybe somewhere in the distant future, your complaint would be resolved. Help yourselves and the community by patronizing the small business and shop keeper.

gwennieB wrote:
Private enterprise was the best for the consumer. As rolivan stated, the butcher, baker, greengrocer all were committed to keeping their customers happy. These mega stores and businesses are so unaccountable to the consumer. You had a problem with a purchase from an independant store owner you received satisfaction to your complaint. Because the independant owner knew that word would spread and their business would be hurt. Try getting satisfation with the mega stores, if you can find a manager to take your complaint. Then you have to spend your time filling out needless bits of paperwork for them to pursue the issue and maybe somewhere in the distant future, your complaint would be resolved. Help yourselves and the community by patronizing the small business and shop keeper.

The supermarkets are private enterprise! And they use monopolistic tactics to bend planning decisions, lobby parliament to their advantage and squeezing suppliers.

Hanover is lucky in having some excellent independant shops and only recently in the Argus I was defending my local butcher against the moaners saying how supermarkets were better (how stupid they look following the horse meat scandal!).

However, the pub trade seems to be being bled dry by PubCos against a background of falling sales. I can't believe we could lose my most frequented pub as it still seems popular, serves good beer and does a cracking roast.

Unlike years gone by when the Landlord could sit on the public side of the bar drinking the profits, if the Landlord is not exceptional then the pub faces an uncertain future.

The government should give pubs more assistance. People buy drink from supermarkets and without the discipline of paying in paid for measures end up drinking too much.

I have to agree with HJarrs above. It's the PubCos that are ruining the industry, not the smoking ban.

Take a look at PubCo's profits and compare them to a pub landlord's and you'll see there is a huge income to made in the industry, just not by the landlords.

Some PubCo owners become rich enough be Tory MPs! :)

As a boozer it grieves me to say this. But in fairness there probably are too many pubs in certain parts of the city!
I wish they would not keep changing pub names- this does not help! If the Sir Charles Napier is closed surely the other pubs in the area should pick up the trade-especially the adjacent Dover Castle. The pub chains do behave like tyrants towards managers and tenants. Making it a condition that stock can only be purchased from themselves. If a pub increases its turnover they immediately raise rents.
Perhaps a move to independent/communit
y ownership as happened to the Bevendean may be a way forward. But the old maxim applies: 'Use it or lose it!'

hammerfan wrote:
As a boozer it grieves me to say this. But in fairness there probably are too many pubs in certain parts of the city!
I wish they would not keep changing pub names- this does not help! If the Sir Charles Napier is closed surely the other pubs in the area should pick up the trade-especially the adjacent Dover Castle. The pub chains do behave like tyrants towards managers and tenants. Making it a condition that stock can only be purchased from themselves. If a pub increases its turnover they immediately raise rents.
Perhaps a move to independent/communit

y ownership as happened to the Bevendean may be a way forward. But the old maxim applies: 'Use it or lose it!'

I would be up for contributing to community ownership, but I fear we would be well and truly ripped-off by the PubCos.

rolivan wrote:
If people are so worried about their communiteis why not have some real shops in the area The Butcher the Baker the Greengrocer

Have you been to Hanover? We have all of those things, locally owned and run.

HJarrs wrote:

hammerfan wrote:
As a boozer it grieves me to say this. But in fairness there probably are too many pubs in certain parts of the city!
I wish they would not keep changing pub names- this does not help! If the Sir Charles Napier is closed surely the other pubs in the area should pick up the trade-especially the adjacent Dover Castle. The pub chains do behave like tyrants towards managers and tenants. Making it a condition that stock can only be purchased from themselves. If a pub increases its turnover they immediately raise rents.
Perhaps a move to independent/communit


y ownership as happened to the Bevendean may be a way forward. But the old maxim applies: 'Use it or lose it!'

I would be up for contributing to community ownership, but I fear we would be well and truly ripped-off by the PubCos.

My intuition say's that whatever you are 'up for' will be wrong and fail.

Market equilibrium will no doubt determine the outcome.

censored wrote:

rolivan wrote:
If people are so worried about their communiteis why not have some real shops in the area The Butcher the Baker the Greengrocer

Have you been to Hanover? We have all of those things, locally owned and run.

I lived in the Elm Grove area for 23 Years including Hanover St there was a pub on virtually every corner.I don't think there is a need for so many now;It is great if there are still independent Shops but let the pubs fight for survival.When I was growing up the area wasn't Hanover we just used Street names.I would think Southover or Islingword would be more appropriate as they run through the length of the Area

Unfortunately it is full of those from Londonsian, where is H Jarrs from, she is very annoying

george smith wrote:
Unfortunately it is full of those from Londonsian, where is H Jarrs from, she is very annoying

There people born and bred in this area through to students that are passing through for a few months. It is very mixed. I wish all other parts of B&H had the same quality of local shops and pubs and vibrant community centre.

HJarrs wrote:

george smith wrote: Unfortunately it is full of those from Londonsian, where is H Jarrs from, she is very annoying

There people born and bred in this area through to students that are passing through for a few months. It is very mixed. I wish all other parts of B&H had the same quality of local shops and pubs and vibrant community centre.

So you are born and bred Brighton?

george smith wrote:

HJarrs wrote:

george smith wrote: Unfortunately it is full of those from Londonsian, where is H Jarrs from, she is very annoying

There people born and bred in this area through to students that are passing through for a few months. It is very mixed. I wish all other parts of B&H had the same quality of local shops and pubs and vibrant community centre.

So you are born and bred Brighton?

No, neither am I from London nor are most neighbours I have met. Nor is there anything wrong with coming from London or anywhere else for that matter. Hanover is like the rest of B&H; people come from all over the place.

I am happy to continue to support the local pubs as I did today.

I dont know about this pub but Children in pubs is enough to drive punters out. I stopped drinking in many if the pubs in Hanover when screaming toddlers became the norm with mums swigging Magners and ice pretending its acceptable to get tipsy with the kids if you drink cider out of a nice glass
And breast feeding dads started talking about nappies.
Boozers are where adults drink alcohol
And talk about stuff kids shouldn't hear. Harvesters are for families.

Maxwell's Ghost wrote:
I dont know about this pub but Children in pubs is enough to drive punters out. I stopped drinking in many if the pubs in Hanover when screaming toddlers became the norm with mums swigging Magners and ice pretending its acceptable to get tipsy with the kids if you drink cider out of a nice glass And breast feeding dads started talking about nappies. Boozers are where adults drink alcohol And talk about stuff kids shouldn't hear. Harvesters are for families.

You try thr open house, we had to leave once as thekids were so badly behaved, jumping from leather sofa to leather sofa the mothers sat at the table trying to appear trendy middleclass mothers who had it all, but unfortunately not parenting skills

HJarrs wrote:

george smith wrote:

HJarrs wrote:

george smith wrote: Unfortunately it is full of those from Londonsian, where is H Jarrs from, she is very annoying

There people born and bred in this area through to students that are passing through for a few months. It is very mixed. I wish all other parts of B&H had the same quality of local shops and pubs and vibrant community centre.

So you are born and bred Brighton?

No, neither am I from London nor are most neighbours I have met. Nor is there anything wrong with coming from London or anywhere else for that matter. Hanover is like the rest of B&H; people come from all over the place. I am happy to continue to support the local pubs as I did today.

Do you not think you are somewhat insensitive to those who have livd in Brighton all their lives, whose kids cannot afford to buy anywhere, and see their town being ripped about by those who have moved to the area, and when it is completely wrecked will move on.

Together with the health authorities, all political parties are trying to persuade people to drink less.

Why be surprised when pubs start to close ? You can't blame it all on the supermarkets.

If a landlord makes his pub a success, the freeholder or brewery ups the rent. If the landlord makes a success by providing good food, the freeholder or brewery ups the rent. Then the freeholder or brewery wonders why the landlord goes out of business and hands back the keys. It has happened so many times it makes me wonder when the brewery/freeholder will ever learn that it also helps them that they have a successful landlord, and not to penalise them for being successful.

george smith wrote:

HJarrs wrote:

george smith wrote:

HJarrs wrote:

george smith wrote: Unfortunately it is full of those from Londonsian, where is H Jarrs from, she is very annoying

There people born and bred in this area through to students that are passing through for a few months. It is very mixed. I wish all other parts of B&H had the same quality of local shops and pubs and vibrant community centre.

So you are born and bred Brighton?

No, neither am I from London nor are most neighbours I have met. Nor is there anything wrong with coming from London or anywhere else for that matter. Hanover is like the rest of B&H; people come from all over the place. I am happy to continue to support the local pubs as I did today.

Do you not think you are somewhat insensitive to those who have livd in Brighton all their lives, whose kids cannot afford to buy anywhere, and see their town being ripped about by those who have moved to the area, and when it is completely wrecked will move on.

Mr Smith, you seem particularly vindictive towards HJarrs just because he/she was born in a different city than the one he/she currently resides in.

You will, I hope, have noticed that house prices have risen above affordability across the whole of the south east, not just Brighton so it's wrong to blame him/her for the local increase.

Kiddon72 wrote:
Together with the health authorities, all political parties are trying to persuade people to drink less.

Why be surprised when pubs start to close ? You can't blame it all on the supermarkets.

Ah yes, those politicians.
The ones who enjoy 24 hour duty free bars in the Houses of Parliament.
Fitting people to tell us what to do I wonder ;)
Perhaps they should try leading from the front?

george smith wrote:

HJarrs wrote:

george smith wrote:

HJarrs wrote:

george smith wrote: Unfortunately it is full of those from Londonsian, where is H Jarrs from, she is very annoying

There people born and bred in this area through to students that are passing through for a few months. It is very mixed. I wish all other parts of B&H had the same quality of local shops and pubs and vibrant community centre.

So you are born and bred Brighton?

No, neither am I from London nor are most neighbours I have met. Nor is there anything wrong with coming from London or anywhere else for that matter. Hanover is like the rest of B&H; people come from all over the place. I am happy to continue to support the local pubs as I did today.

Do you not think you are somewhat insensitive to those who have livd in Brighton all their lives, whose kids cannot afford to buy anywhere, and see their town being ripped about by those who have moved to the area, and when it is completely wrecked will move on.

I've been here 40 years now
so that makes me an outsider in your view. What makes you think that our kids can afford a place Mr Smith?

Whilst looking for some photos of the Seven Dials in the James Gray collection I also looked at this area, Pubs have been closing down for over a hundred years and have been replaced with accommodation in most cases,I would hazard a guess to say that the one time 365 plus Pubs that Brighton had have more than adequately been replaced by Coffee Shops and Restaurants.

Maxwell's Ghost wrote:
I dont know about this pub but Children in pubs is enough to drive punters out. I stopped drinking in many if the pubs in Hanover when screaming toddlers became the norm with mums swigging Magners and ice pretending its acceptable to get tipsy with the kids if you drink cider out of a nice glass
And breast feeding dads started talking about nappies.
Boozers are where adults drink alcohol
And talk about stuff kids shouldn't hear. Harvesters are for families.

Oh no - are you still alive?

I'm happy to drink more or less in any pub, but with decent ale costing near £4 a pint, I'm reduced to Weatherspoons. Cheap prices & good choice of beers, but it's not helping the smaller pubs I like to visit.

Always sad to see a boozer go to the wall, wether I used it or not!

Don't suppose next weeks budget is gonna help any either.

As the previous owner of two pubs in the UK I have a little insight on this matter.

The first pub I took over had a rent of 16k a year, I increased trade by over 400% and my rent went up to 24k a year.
My second pub had a rent of 36k a year, I increased trade and my rent went up to 52k a year. Both of these increases were instant and not spread over a number of years.

My day started at around 6.30am, cleaning duties ect, and ended at around mid-night.

When customers are willing and able to pay prices which account for publican's costs and the hours they work, only then will local pubs be able to survive.
If a publican or a company own two or more pubs they qualify for discounts when ordering the beers, a lone operator does not, he pays full price. A pub that is part of a chain of pubs can make in the region of 20% higher profits on a pint, the lone operator can't compete with that so he/she cuts his/her costs by doing as much of the work him/herself.

You only keep the small operator, be he/she a publican, butcher or baker by agreeing to pay more for what you want, and most of you don't want to pay more and probably can't afford to.

Regular Tim Price said “We have seen a few Napier regulars wandering around Hanover wondering where to go".

It is desperately sad when these people who rely on booze during a normal working day in the middle of a catastrophic recession cannot remember where the nearest pub is when their local is closed. I do feel terribly sorry for them, but would point them up or down the hill a bit and they'll find another pub.

Pubs should be pubs and if you want food.... go to a rstuarant! Food is killing pubs!

Boing Boing. wrote:
I'm happy to drink more or less in any pub, but with decent ale costing near £4 a pint, I'm reduced to Weatherspoons. Cheap prices & good choice of beers, but it's not helping the smaller pubs I like to visit.

Always sad to see a boozer go to the wall, wether I used it or not!

Don't suppose next weeks budget is gonna help any either.

Indeed. For local shops and supermarkets read local pubs and drinking barns like Weatherspoons. Not that I've anything against Weatherspoons (or supermarkets), like you they're often all I can afford - especially if I'm taking the family out.

However it's not simply a case of saying 'pay a bit more in a local pub like you would in your local butcher'. Firstly as we've seen the pubcos simply up the rent if you're successful. Secondly people only spend a few minutes in a shop and then they're replaced by the next customer. In a pub people hang around, and small pubs can only hold so many. The local butcher wouldn't survive if all their customers spent two hours buying a pound of sausages.