Brighton elm tree protesters come down ahead of council talks (From The Argus)

well done, lets hope you save the tree from the chainsaw happy greens

As posted before, the junction should either be redesigned so that pedestrians can cross Vernon rd safely and to stop the tree damaging the carriageway otherwise it should be chopped and roots removed. Public safety should always be paramount.

HJarrs wrote:
As posted before, the junction should either be redesigned so that pedestrians can cross Vernon rd safely and to stop the tree damaging the carriageway otherwise it should be chopped and roots removed. Public safety should always be paramount.

There is no problem. Please stop with the pro-Green administration propaganda, it's tiresome.

The MAJOR complaint against the Seven Dials Scheme from local residents has NOT been every aspect of the Scheme itself, but the misleading and contradictory information that has been drip fed to the local community from week to week.

The demolition of the tree is just one of those factors that has suddenly hit the fan, thanks to the magnificent occupation. That the tree was being considered for demolition was first told to us by the local Green councillor, who sits on the Transport Committee. We were told this verbally, and it was confirmed in writing on 3rd November -- and first indicated on the Council's plan on 17th November. So certainly Green councillors in Goldsmid were aware of the intention, and in support of it!

Opponents of the Scheme who kept abreast of the issues were more focused on the lack of fair and proper discussion, the refusal of local Councillors to participate in an open meeting, rather than individual items, all as important as the removal of the old Elm. It is interesting to note that these same councillors, have noted the public demonstrations and suddenly, thinking of their hopes of re-election in the near future, have decided to declare 'we didn't know', 'how terrible', 'we support the campaigners'.

Even those councillors and self-declared 'activists' collecting signatures, even if they hadn't listened to what was being discussed
among their colleagues, DID attend the public meeting on 17th December, where the tree removal was mentioned forcefully by the Chair, hotly disputed from the floor, yet these same people are now telling fellow protesters, they 'didn't know'.

Remember these people when next you cast a vote! The Scheme itself is now going ahead; and we, the suffering public, will have to live with the consequences of allowing the Council to get away with their fake consultation -- it'll be more than an Elm tree that'll be regretting what we've allowed to happen in the future.

to

Maybe they came down because they saw on their brand new iPad mini that it's gonna snow. So back to their homes in Dyke Avenue for them.

Plantpot wrote:

HJarrs wrote:
As posted before, the junction should either be redesigned so that pedestrians can cross Vernon rd safely and to stop the tree damaging the carriageway otherwise it should be chopped and roots removed. Public safety should always be paramount.

There is no problem. Please stop with the pro-Green administration propaganda, it's tiresome.

There isn't a Vernon Rd in the City it is either Vernon TERRACE or Vere Rd which is off Ditchling Rd.I am fed up with people spouting about what should and shouldn't be done when they don't even know the place well enough.That is why I think anyone who wants to become a Councillor should have resided in their Constiyuency for at least 10 Years.If people spent more time helping out in their own surrounds there would be less problems.

rolivan wrote:

Plantpot wrote:

HJarrs wrote:
As posted before, the junction should either be redesigned so that pedestrians can cross Vernon rd safely and to stop the tree damaging the carriageway otherwise it should be chopped and roots removed. Public safety should always be paramount.

There is no problem. Please stop with the pro-Green administration propaganda, it's tiresome.

There isn't a Vernon Rd in the City it is either Vernon TERRACE or Vere Rd which is off Ditchling Rd.I am fed up with people spouting about what should and shouldn't be done when they don't even know the place well enough.That is why I think anyone who wants to become a Councillor should have resided in their Constiyuency for at least 10 Years.If people spent more time helping out in their own surrounds there would be less problems.

Thankyou for the correction it is Vernon Terrace.

However, perhaps someone would like to demonstrate how it is safe and satisfactory for a tree to obscure the view of a pedestrian crossing and how having part of the tree in the carriageway (the kerbstone stops at the treetrunk and starts the other side) is in any way acceptable.

If this tree is to be saved the paving should be extended around the tree's base upto and including the pedestrian crossing and the approach to Vernon Terrace from the roundabout re-engineered accordingly. This would be my preffered solution.

HJarrs wrote:
As posted before, the junction should either be redesigned so that pedestrians can cross Vernon rd safely and to stop the tree damaging the carriageway otherwise it should be chopped and roots removed. Public safety should always be paramount.

So if we where all like you every tree deemed as a Public safety issue i.e. not in the way you want your pain to look you’d chop the tree down – lets try to look at in another way trees are important as they filter out carbon dioxide and produce oxygen - ear to witch you breath witch makes me think if we where to sow your gob shut we would have more oxygen to breath and still have a splendid elm tree where it has stood for many century’s before you where even conserved in your mothers womb

HJarrs wrote:

rolivan wrote:

Plantpot wrote:

HJarrs wrote:
As posted before, the junction should either be redesigned so that pedestrians can cross Vernon rd safely and to stop the tree damaging the carriageway otherwise it should be chopped and roots removed. Public safety should always be paramount.

There is no problem. Please stop with the pro-Green administration propaganda, it's tiresome.

There isn't a Vernon Rd in the City it is either Vernon TERRACE or Vere Rd which is off Ditchling Rd.I am fed up with people spouting about what should and shouldn't be done when they don't even know the place well enough.That is why I think anyone who wants to become a Councillor should have resided in their Constiyuency for at least 10 Years.If people spent more time helping out in their own surrounds there would be less problems.

Thankyou for the correction it is Vernon Terrace.

However, perhaps someone would like to demonstrate how it is safe and satisfactory for a tree to obscure the view of a pedestrian crossing and how having part of the tree in the carriageway (the kerbstone stops at the treetrunk and starts the other side) is in any way acceptable.

If this tree is to be saved the paving should be extended around the tree's base upto and including the pedestrian crossing and the approach to Vernon Terrace from the roundabout re-engineered accordingly. This would be my preffered solution.

The pedestrian crossing witch just happens to be a crossing with lights should make it a Safe and Satisfactory as motorist have to stop at a red light unlike cyclists who dote no matter even if there is a clear view of the crossing and lets not for get those pedestrian who are to impatient to wait for the lights to stop the traffic.

Are yes we wait with bated breath to hear what this green council’s conclusion will be or will the tree mysteriously fall down like the fish that died!

HJarrs wrote:

rolivan wrote:

Plantpot wrote:

HJarrs wrote:
As posted before, the junction should either be redesigned so that pedestrians can cross Vernon rd safely and to stop the tree damaging the carriageway otherwise it should be chopped and roots removed. Public safety should always be paramount.

There is no problem. Please stop with the pro-Green administration propaganda, it's tiresome.

There isn't a Vernon Rd in the City it is either Vernon TERRACE or Vere Rd which is off Ditchling Rd.I am fed up with people spouting about what should and shouldn't be done when they don't even know the place well enough.That is why I think anyone who wants to become a Councillor should have resided in their Constiyuency for at least 10 Years.If people spent more time helping out in their own surrounds there would be less problems.

Thankyou for the correction it is Vernon Terrace.

However, perhaps someone would like to demonstrate how it is safe and satisfactory for a tree to obscure the view of a pedestrian crossing and how having part of the tree in the carriageway (the kerbstone stops at the treetrunk and starts the other side) is in any way acceptable.

If this tree is to be saved the paving should be extended around the tree's base upto and including the pedestrian crossing and the approach to Vernon Terrace from the roundabout re-engineered accordingly. This would be my preffered solution.

It doesn't seem to have been a problem for the last 150 years or however long it's been there, so what's the problem now? Why are they even "re-designing" the 7 Dials, there's nothing wrong with it that due care and attention and slowing down won't solve. No need for a complete re-vamp. If you can't cross the 7 Dials roundabout safely, you shouldn't be on the road.

Could the pedestrian crossing be moved away from the tree area?

B&H is full of elms with fat bulging surface roots that take up pavement space - Clarendon Villas has a few, narrowing use of the pavement and I either pick past or use the opposite pavement.

The Green Administration has soared away from really basic green thinking that could have helped the city a lot, over and above continuing the cycle path thing already happening before they came to power.

They have done nothing to put planning policy in place to dissuade installing UPVC and use of other environmentally nightmare synthetics in the building trade.

They haven't even CONSIDERED putting in a programme of root pruning of young trees and use of paving stones instead of blacktop for pavement areas around them. I only learned from Nigel Furness' letter that this used to be routine. But then he WAS thinking of the day of Hove Borough Council and their values of course.

Fact is, long before there was a Green Party there seems to have been much more conscious and APPLIED green thinking going on.

When did it all go so wrong.

Please read Judy Middleton on the way we actually GOT all our trees. It is quite the eye-opener.

http://portsladehist
ory.blogspot.co.uk/s
earch/label/Hove%20T
rees

PorkBoat wrote:

HJarrs wrote:

rolivan wrote:

Plantpot wrote:

HJarrs wrote:
As posted before, the junction should either be redesigned so that pedestrians can cross Vernon rd safely and to stop the tree damaging the carriageway otherwise it should be chopped and roots removed. Public safety should always be paramount.

There is no problem. Please stop with the pro-Green administration propaganda, it's tiresome.

There isn't a Vernon Rd in the City it is either Vernon TERRACE or Vere Rd which is off Ditchling Rd.I am fed up with people spouting about what should and shouldn't be done when they don't even know the place well enough.That is why I think anyone who wants to become a Councillor should have resided in their Constiyuency for at least 10 Years.If people spent more time helping out in their own surrounds there would be less problems.

Thankyou for the correction it is Vernon Terrace.

However, perhaps someone would like to demonstrate how it is safe and satisfactory for a tree to obscure the view of a pedestrian crossing and how having part of the tree in the carriageway (the kerbstone stops at the treetrunk and starts the other side) is in any way acceptable.

If this tree is to be saved the paving should be extended around the tree's base upto and including the pedestrian crossing and the approach to Vernon Terrace from the roundabout re-engineered accordingly. This would be my preffered solution.

It doesn't seem to have been a problem for the last 150 years or however long it's been there, so what's the problem now? Why are they even "re-designing" the 7 Dials, there's nothing wrong with it that due care and attention and slowing down won't solve. No need for a complete re-vamp. If you can't cross the 7 Dials roundabout safely, you shouldn't be on the road.

You mean we have ignored the problem as we have at other junctions such as the bottom of Southover St on the Level where the same problem applies. There has been a very low priority given to road safety historically and we still kill well over 2000 people a year on the roads.

I am waiting for an answer as to how it is safe and satisfactory for a tree to obscure the view of a pedestrian crossing and how having part of the tree in the carriageway.

I take Valerie P's point that not enough is being done to protect the trees in B&H. As I say, I would favour building out the pavement to include this tree and I would put in permiable paving in the vicinity of the roots as I would across the city blacktop is clearly the wrong thing to do. I thought the pavement build-out had been rejected by the local community putting us in this situation in the first place?

By the way, if you design something that knowing has not addressed a risk, as far as I am aware you can be personally held liable under the CDM regulations and here we are not addressing a risk to pedestrians.

What is a CDM regulation? And why does BHCC consistently redesign streets and junctions to incorporate added complexity and problems - like overzealous and dangerous use of tactile paving which poses significant hazards for older and disabled pedestrians?

Or they embrace 'shared' spaces in a follows of fashion way. No real designing goes on. They just consult a manual and apply the currently fashionable diktat from the DOT.

CDM = Cadbury Dairy Milk

Just how many people have been killed or injured due to this tree causing problems in the last 10 years

HJarrs...why not take a rest, your posts are just ridiculous and completely irritating at best!

Valerie Paynter wrote:
What is a CDM regulation? And why does BHCC consistently redesign streets and junctions to incorporate added complexity and problems - like overzealous and dangerous use of tactile paving which poses significant hazards for older and disabled pedestrians?

Or they embrace 'shared' spaces in a follows of fashion way. No real designing goes on. They just consult a manual and apply the currently fashionable diktat from the DOT.

I like Cadbury Dairy Milk, very good, but sadly CDM stands for Construction design and management Regulations.

I can't pretend to be an expert, but people have been prosecuted due to it because of poor design and implimentation to my knowledge.

I have been looking through James Grays collection of photos whch the Regency Society bought in it is a photo of the seven Dials looking along Vernon Terrace it is a shame the planners decided to do away with the large roundabout which Still allowed for Buses to gain access to 6 of the seven roads even Vernon Terrace when buses used to run from The top of Elm Grove to the bottom of Montpelier and back I think it was a 43 or 44 Iif anyone would like to google James Gray vol 26 photo 150
You might find yourself glued for a while to the 7500plus photos.Also you might see Elm Grove in its hayday before they constructed the Rails for the buses

Why dont they dig it up, have it transported to Stanmer park and put it there and worship it?

rolivan wrote:

Plantpot wrote:

HJarrs wrote:
As posted before, the junction should either be redesigned so that pedestrians can cross Vernon rd safely and to stop the tree damaging the carriageway otherwise it should be chopped and roots removed. Public safety should always be paramount.

There is no problem. Please stop with the pro-Green administration propaganda, it's tiresome.

There isn't a Vernon Rd in the City it is either Vernon TERRACE or Vere Rd which is off Ditchling Rd.I am fed up with people spouting about what should and shouldn't be done when they don't even know the place well enough.That is why I think anyone who wants to become a Councillor should have resided in their Constiyuency for at least 10 Years.If people spent more time helping out in their own surrounds there would be less problems.

It's very interesting how the Greens and their apologists like HJarrs seem to know so little about the city and its history, and care even less.

The Greens treat local people and their views with contempt.They are rather like upper class travellers, invading the city, squatting and wrecking it.

Let's not forget Kitcat's wife's racist and offensive comments about Brightonians and in-breeding.

It would be interesting to know how many Green Councillors would survive under your proposed 10 year rule.

Missing Green Councillor Amy Kennedy has never even lived in her constituency, so that would be one gone! There should be a by-election for her seat in her ward now anyway, given her protracted absence.

HJarrs wrote:

Valerie Paynter wrote:
What is a CDM regulation? And why does BHCC consistently redesign streets and junctions to incorporate added complexity and problems - like overzealous and dangerous use of tactile paving which poses significant hazards for older and disabled pedestrians?

Or they embrace 'shared' spaces in a follows of fashion way. No real designing goes on. They just consult a manual and apply the currently fashionable diktat from the DOT.

I like Cadbury Dairy Milk, very good, but sadly CDM stands for Construction design and management Regulations.

I can't pretend to be an expert, but people have been prosecuted due to it because of poor design and implimentation to my knowledge.

The CDM regulations apply to the construction of a project only, to ensure the safety of the workers building the project. They DON'T apply to the design of the scheme per se, and therefore don't relate to how the junction, tactile pavements, etc. actually work in practice. Thus Cadbury Dairy Milk is as relevant to this discussion as the CDM regulations.

I thought they were not going to come down until they had in writing that the tree was to be saved?

Nothing to do with the snow and freezing conditions then?

Someone go and cut the tree down now whist they are not in it.

HJarrs barked on command:- "You mean we have ignored the problem as we have at other junctions such as the bottom of Southover St on the Level where the same problem applies".

There is no problem. The tree has been there for years with no problem. This redevelopment will cause many, many more problems, that simply haven't existed up until now.