Sussex transport bosses 'proud of response' to snow crisis (From The Argus)

There was an abandoned BMW blocking the road outside the CityClean depot, Hollingdean lane, this morning. Has it been towed yet?

Was out in it all day Monday around Brighton & Hove and didn't see one grittier it was just total chaos as the roads ground to a halt and after the way the council tried to blame the wind for blowing the gritty away yesterday just pathetic.

are you joking? we heard there going to be snow before it happened but again nothing was done on the first day it snowed no gritters, roads were awful i saw more abanoned cars this time then last time it snowed and this time was not as bad, think of all the old people that cant walk well but still try up and down these steep hills of brighton & hove
this country is a joke a little bit of snow and everything comes to a stand still.

It became apparent at 3pm what was going to happen.
At the time there was no snow on the coast road by Rottingdean, yet I still couldn't get up the road past the Lido towards Rottingdean due to the road becoming like an ice rink.
It was practically sheet ice along its entire length.
I turned back at this point and ended up walking out at 630 to Brighton. Again there was little snow, but any incline along the coast road provided major traction problems.The road under the miniscule bit of snow fall was sheet ice.
Can't believe for one minute this road had been gritted at all in the previous 24hrs.

Buy some chains for your vehicle. Better to have them and not need them than need them and not have them.

Dealing with idiots wrote:
Buy some chains for your vehicle. Better to have them and not need them than need them and not have them.

Good idea. Especially in Brighton with hills all over the place.

Obviously we cannot expect the council to prepare properly.

Dealing with idiots wrote:
Buy some chains for your vehicle. Better to have them and not need them than need them and not have them.

I've had chains for years for European driving.
Unfortunately the conditions along the coastal road did not lend themselves to their use.The problem was a thin layer of sheet ice, not thick snow.

I drove to London at 7am on monday. It was clear even then the roads weren't gritted properly the snow was settling on the a23/m23 and my windscreen was staying clear, whereas if there is lots of grit it would usually get dirty very quickly on the motorway. I believe but can't prove that the councils are trying cover themselves save their jobs!

I then took around10 hours to get home including a long queue to get fuel just in case at pease pottage.Eventually made it back along the 281 then a23.

I have to say the last time we had snow earlier in the eayr the a23/m23 was impeccable i got through fine each day apart from one evening. In that case we were predicted to have rain and got snow, but that wasn't the case this time, it was always forecast to be snowy, someone got it horribly wrong!

Luckily i got someone to cover running my training course yesterday but if not it could have cost our company 1000's as there is no way i could have got back and taught a training course after getting back a 3am

Alan

"An agency spokeswoman said their fleet of 24 gritting machines had treated the road with a water solution from 10pm on Sunday, March 10".
Was this a good idea in sub-zero temperatures??

I turned into The Old London Road at about 8.15pm on Sunday evening to find a gritter parked a little way in. It had spread what seemed a huge amount of grit in the first 50 or so yards of the road but apparently none elsewhere. What was that about?

I had a thirteen hour journey home from Surrey, there were no buses running in Brighton, and they say that they wouldn't do anything differently!

I don't want to read stories about how proud she is, I want to read the story about how she's been fired for incompetance!

To not do anything differently when everything was such a disaster is beyond arrogant!

my son took two hours to get home from my house in the avenue, (he lives just over a mile away if that) he couldnt get up coombe road so had to go back down, the traffic was at a standstill in Lewes road, everywhere cars sliding etc he got to his home in Findon road whitehawk 2 hours later, there was no gritting done in the avenue we see them all the time with lights flashing,
before the snow came down harder and faster i picked my daughter up from moulscombe way and along hodshrove road it was just snow, 2 lots of tyre tracks i warned a bus driver at hillside he wasnt going to get up there as it wasnt gritted within 5 minutes the buses were pulled off the east moulscombe route couldnt get through
the men and women working the gritters do a grand job but its behind the scenes that have to give permission to grit so i'm told, i mean what happened the last snow fall? it was great the roads were all gritted and seemed good.... what went wrong this time BHCC?????

I walked to work in Brighton (730am), the main roads were clear, cars were moving easily, trucks delvering, mums pushing pushchairs, even an old gentleman with a zimmer frame...! Any bus options? Not one! They could have had buses running on the flat main roads to help people get to work and shops... Totally inept and slow to react! How often does this need to happen before they get their acts together!?

It does annoy me a bit when drivers are quoted as saying, "We were warned about this. The council should have done more".
You're right. We were warned about it. So, why are you still driving when there is the chance that you will be stuck?
I think the chances of 'seeing' a gritter are slim. I am not sure what the ratio is but I am sure there are less gritters in Brighton & Hove than there are roads!
I do agree that we need to be more prepared for the more extremes of our weather, but the responsibility is with everyone (not just the public services).

BtnIan wrote:
It does annoy me a bit when drivers are quoted as saying, "We were warned about this. The council should have done more".
You're right. We were warned about it. So, why are you still driving when there is the chance that you will be stuck?
I think the chances of 'seeing' a gritter are slim. I am not sure what the ratio is but I am sure there are less gritters in Brighton & Hove than there are roads!
I do agree that we need to be more prepared for the more extremes of our weather, but the responsibility is with everyone (not just the public services).

If the council had gritted the roads, people would not have become stuck. It wasn't thick snow requiring chains, just a thin layer of icy snow and some of us have jobs to go to so we can't just decide to not go out all day.

It is the duty of the council to grit the roads to keep them fit for travel where possible whether we choose to use them or not.This was clearly not done putting lives at risk and costing the local economy dear.Christina Liassades,head of highways should be properly made accountable for her inactions and get the chop.We need efficient people at the top of their game to head important departments where so much is at stake...

Proud of their response! Are they joking? They must be, surely. You should never be proud of failure, which is what we have witnessed once again! All the council have done, is once again demonstrate their stupendous incompotance, they are completely and utterly inept. They should be issuing a county wide apoligy for their mistakes, which caused so much disruption, as should First Capital Connect and Southern.

Stupid excuses by motorists for not being prepared and not needing snow chains, those who had them were fine once they had put them on. Moan Moan Moan and blame the council thats all we get in Brighton.

FatherTed11 wrote:

BtnIan wrote:
It does annoy me a bit when drivers are quoted as saying, "We were warned about this. The council should have done more".
You're right. We were warned about it. So, why are you still driving when there is the chance that you will be stuck?
I think the chances of 'seeing' a gritter are slim. I am not sure what the ratio is but I am sure there are less gritters in Brighton & Hove than there are roads!
I do agree that we need to be more prepared for the more extremes of our weather, but the responsibility is with everyone (not just the public services).

If the council had gritted the roads, people would not have become stuck. It wasn't thick snow requiring chains, just a thin layer of icy snow and some of us have jobs to go to so we can't just decide to not go out all day.

Indeed we can't all chose to take the train or predict council incompetance.

The snow was not predicted to be anywhere near as bad as before and wasn't (apart from the wind causing drifts on the side roads) The councils and highways agency did a good job when we last had snow so there was no reason to think it wouldn't be ok this time.

I had to drive to take equipment weighing around 60kg so no option. I looked on the travel sites and they said minor delays when i left, otherwise i would have stayed in london with family, once you were in the queue it was too late as for me it started just after the east grinstead exit.

Today i took the train to be safe but i can't do so every day if i need to take laptops for training.

@BtnIan and leobrighton do you both work for the council as you are the only ones that seem to be defending the councils complete ineptitude?
Obviously you wouldn't necessarily expect to see these fast moving gritters (!) on the road, but I would expect to see evidence of where they had been - and there was none on the all the roads I walked past on Tuesday evening.
As for the glib comment about not making a journey unless it was necessary, try telling that to the Emergency Services who were held up due to the councils incompetence.
Proud of their response?! What breathtaking arrogance and ignorance!

Chains are not a good idea - they damage the road surface causing more problems. In addition, most vehicles these days have alloy wheels with large tyres. These limit the clearance between tyre and suspension stru and therefore chains may not even be an option due to fitment limitations, never mind the damage they will do to a set of alloys. The answer is "Snow-Socks" - these are ballistic nylon "socks" which are easy to fit and remove. They are only to get you out of trouble and you cannot drive on them for long. Also a collapsable snow showel and tow rope can be kept in the boot. You can use floor mats for grip under your tyres and in reality, it is down to YOU the driver to take responsibility for your vehicle. Yes the roads >hould< have been gritted sufficiently to allow main routes like the A27 / A23 to be easily drivable with care but YOU have to take some of the responsibility. I carry all of the above plus a think sleeping bag, high-vis jacket, boots, bottle of water and some chocolate. This is not rocket science people.......

and no I don't work for the council - I drive no more than the average 15 - 20K per year but I am prepared to spend a couple of quic ensuring that I am prepared for events like the other day.
Yes the council need to be answerable and produce evidence they responded appropriately. If they are found to be wanting in their response then I say hang em high - no excuse but come on people, get a grip - If it's looking iffy GO HOME. Prepare your self and your car......

the council & transport agency failed us, when I got stuck on M23 there was but a few mm of snow at best...6hrs later I completed the 30 mile journey...no gritters had been out , it is no use sending them out when everyone is already stuck!
I would however like to thank the fabulous member of the pubic who was walking up and down her road in cuckfield area handnig out cereal bars...god bless you & your kindness you were really appreciated.

Whatever people say, I am afraid the simple reason is that there are just too many vehicles on our roads nowadays.
Another point is that many people simply do not know how to drive in snow and ice.
Years ago a lot of people would have had a motorcycle of scooter as their first method of transport, progressing onto a car as funds allowed. This provided good knowledge of the importance of maintenance including the importance of correct tyre pressures etc., and an appreciation of road conditions (if you were careless on ice you came off!). On my way home I was amazed at how close vehicles drove to the one in front, and don't get me wrong, a lot of people were also driving too slowly by being over cautious. We will experience this more often as the number of vehicles increase and I ask how many people have had the experience of a skid pan or similar training. Its about time this was introduced in an updated driving test. I would urge all to contact groups such as ROSPA or the I.A.M to brush up on their driving skills so that we can all drive appropriately and safely and try and deal with such conditions.

I saw a Brighton and Hove gritter at 11.15 on the A259 at Roedean school. This was the first gritter I had seen after sitting in the traffic on the coast road for the previous 5 hours...

Just under four hours to Brighton from north of Worthing, with cars queueing up to slew out of control, particularly on the upward slopes, where clearly there was no evidence whatsoever of any prior gritting treatment. Not once did I see a gritting vehicle or any grit on any of the roads, either in or out of town. Only a public inquiry - or an investigation by the Ombudsman's office into dereliction of duty - will establish just what kind of service the Highways Agency and local councils were offering on Monday. They should be compelled to publish - with maps - exactly which roads they claim to have treated, and when. Either that or thousands of motorists need to go to Specsavers.

The M23 hadn't been gritted that morning for sure. As to whether it was done later or not I don't know but after an 11 hours journey from Surrey to Hassocks the conclusion has to be that no enough was done. In particular, why were the electronic signs on the s/bound M23 not used to warn drivers to find alternative routes. I didn't see a single indicator that there were issues until I joined the back of the queue at Gatwick. And before I left my office I checked the weather forecast which jst said light snow in Sussex from 17:00 - hardly an indication of the chaos to come. Fortunate nobody lost their life.

A few facts to help most of you.

Gritters/Salters were out most of Sunday, all of Monday, all of Tuesday. I was stuck behind one near Uckfield on Sunday evening, and two seperately, on Monday in Brighton/Portslade.

The A23/M23 is the responsibility of the Highways Agencey, not local Councils, so blame the Government -they fund the HA.

With wet snow, high winds on Monday, salt and grit runs off the road in minutes - combine that with a sudden drop in temperature around 4.30pm, and ice forms over the road surface so making further gritting/salting almost pointless.

The biggest problem was stupid drivers, speeding, stopping suddenly, overtaking causing sudden breaking - I know, as I experienced all of these on the A27 bypass at 5pm, and then n Brighton.

The drivers and their managers worked 48 hours non-stop from Sunday - they had to, legally, take some breaks, but I can tell you all the lorries were out 24/7.

They should be thanked, not slated.

And at the end of it all, no one can beat the weather - you can only do what is possible - it would have been far worse without the staffs efforts!

Anyone care to lodge a complaint to Mother Nature?

"Proud of their response" !?! I think that comment puts transport bosses in a much worse light.

Its true a lot of these problems were caused by drivers having accidents which cause tailbacks which in the worsening weather contributed to the problem. But to say you are proud based on the actual outcome everyone experienced shows they are delluded at best.

No one denies some gritting and snow ploughing was carried out but it was woefully inadequate\infrequen
t.

Lack of strategy planning and contingency which could have limited the severity of this.

ourcoalition wrote:
A few facts to help most of you.

Gritters/Salters were out most of Sunday, all of Monday, all of Tuesday. I was stuck behind one near Uckfield on Sunday evening, and two seperately, on Monday in Brighton/Portslade.

The A23/M23 is the responsibility of the Highways Agencey, not local Councils, so blame the Government -they fund the HA.

With wet snow, high winds on Monday, salt and grit runs off the road in minutes - combine that with a sudden drop in temperature around 4.30pm, and ice forms over the road surface so making further gritting/salting almost pointless.

The biggest problem was stupid drivers, speeding, stopping suddenly, overtaking causing sudden breaking - I know, as I experienced all of these on the A27 bypass at 5pm, and then n Brighton.

The drivers and their managers worked 48 hours non-stop from Sunday - they had to, legally, take some breaks, but I can tell you all the lorries were out 24/7.

They should be thanked, not slated.

And at the end of it all, no one can beat the weather - you can only do what is possible - it would have been far worse without the staffs efforts!

Since you obviously work for one of the local authorities, could you please provide a link to a page showing map references and times to prove this work was carried out? Because - guess what - nobody believes you.

If they had been in Western Road Lancing early evening they wouldn't have been proud of their response. No gritting done until the early hours of Tuesday morning,and that is on a main road.

"Sussex transport bosses 'proud of response' to snow crisis"

Says it all really. Proud of failure! Too many people have given witness to the lack of activity for anyone to have anything to be proud of with the exception of the drivers who belatedly worked their socks off trying to resolve a crisis that should never have been allowed to happen!
The influence of Nicholson spreads far and wide and they will next tell us they are the best people to resolve the next crisis because lessons will have been learned! Pull t'other one!

ourcoalition wrote:
A few facts to help most of you.

Gritters/Salters were out most of Sunday, all of Monday, all of Tuesday. I was stuck behind one near Uckfield on Sunday evening, and two seperately, on Monday in Brighton/Portslade.

The A23/M23 is the responsibility of the Highways Agencey, not local Councils, so blame the Government -they fund the HA.

With wet snow, high winds on Monday, salt and grit runs off the road in minutes - combine that with a sudden drop in temperature around 4.30pm, and ice forms over the road surface so making further gritting/salting almost pointless.

The biggest problem was stupid drivers, speeding, stopping suddenly, overtaking causing sudden breaking - I know, as I experienced all of these on the A27 bypass at 5pm, and then n Brighton.

The drivers and their managers worked 48 hours non-stop from Sunday - they had to, legally, take some breaks, but I can tell you all the lorries were out 24/7.

They should be thanked, not slated.

And at the end of it all, no one can beat the weather - you can only do what is possible - it would have been far worse without the staffs efforts!

So Why was the Initial quote from West Sussex If i recall correctly

"The Roads were gritted at 8am and then again at 8PM!!"

This was on the special BBC Sussex programme, the quotes that came out afterwards sounded like people trying to cover themselves. if it was just the weather then fair enough but i don't think everyone is lying about the lack of gritters before the onset of the problem.

The problem could be a mix of things but is it lack of resources and/or bad planning or was everything done well?

I do recognise the conditions were different. but from what i saw they weren't that different to cause all of this chaos. Certainly in the morning the conditions were not as you described yet there was no evidence of grit and then again in the evening there was very little snow covering initially and zero gritters were seen by anyone.

Last time we had snow they did an generally excellent job and i really don't see the conditions being beyond what can be coped with surely?

Alan

ms Liassides tucked up at home eating her Donna feeling pleased to have laid 360tons of grit onto Brighton roads.
This lady should be asking why only 360tons of git were laid, when Coun. G Theoboldlast autumn said that there were many thousands of tons available.
The average large Gritter has a capacity of approx 12tons, so over a 24 hour period only 36 truck loads were laid. DISGRACEFUL

I'm not normally one to comment on these things but I am outraged to see this response from the council. I was stuck for 14 hours after leaving Swindon at 2.30 and arrived home in Brighton shortly after 4.30am. The first time I saw a gritter on the road was after 12pm after getting stuck on the A23 shortly after 4.

People needed blankets, food, water and saw no response from police in terms of aid at all in what was a desperate situation form everyone involved. The lack of communication was most shocking, the only way of knowing what was going on was from first hand experience on BBC Sussex with the police giving very cryptic responses of what they were doing about the situation.

I hope the police, councils and highways agency have learnt from their mistakes and that no one has to experience what we went through again.

ourcoalition wrote:
A few facts to help most of you. Gritters/Salters were out most of Sunday, all of Monday, all of Tuesday. I was stuck behind one near Uckfield on Sunday evening, and two seperately, on Monday in Brighton/Portslade. The A23/M23 is the responsibility of the Highways Agencey, not local Councils, so blame the Government -they fund the HA. With wet snow, high winds on Monday, salt and grit runs off the road in minutes - combine that with a sudden drop in temperature around 4.30pm, and ice forms over the road surface so making further gritting/salting almost pointless. The biggest problem was stupid drivers, speeding, stopping suddenly, overtaking causing sudden breaking - I know, as I experienced all of these on the A27 bypass at 5pm, and then n Brighton. The drivers and their managers worked 48 hours non-stop from Sunday - they had to, legally, take some breaks, but I can tell you all the lorries were out 24/7. They should be thanked, not slated. And at the end of it all, no one can beat the weather - you can only do what is possible - it would have been far worse without the staffs efforts!

I've got no problem with the gritter drivers as they were probably just following orders and doing the job as well as possible in the circumstances, but the different Councils and the Highways Agency obviously really underestimated things and got the tactics totally wrong so for Christina Liassides, head of highways operations at Brighton and Hove City Council to say she was "Proud"! ...sounds like she might have to fall on her sword if she's got an ounce of decency!

Proud? How can anyone be proud of the fact that 1000's of motorists and passengers were left to freeze or face ridiculously long journeys? What exactly did they achieve that was in any way good? I spent 13 hours to travel 25 miles on the way home yesterday, and went 24 hours without sleep. I'm sure this transport boss wouldn't have been happy if it was someone in her family facing that. But surely she will get a nice bonus this year anyway, despite this very obvious failure in leadership and planning.

The problem wasn't just the lack of grit, it was the lack of timely and appropriate response by the authorities. We were all none the wiser about what was going on - what was causing the delay, and how long until it would be cleared? do we wait? sleep? find accomadation? find an alternate route, if so which one? No pertinent information was given out, even to the radio stations (just a token "don't abanadon your vehicle" by the police). The traffic was stationary, it would have been easy for a group of police/HA workers/council workers to walk up and down and reassure and inform people of what to do and check if everyone was ok - children, pregnant women, the elderly etc. People might have needed water, blankets etc. But there was nothing. If I had fallen asleep in my car, would anyone have come to check on me to see if I was ok? Because I didn't see a single person in authority checking on anyone. They obviously have no set response plan for this type of emergency, and I hate to sound like an American, but who knows how they would deal with a major catastrophy like a terrorist event if they can't even handle a few inches of snow.

And I had checked this very website several times before I left, there was no indication of anything amiss going on.

Anyone out there run a business? Of course there is.
Tell me and answer a question please.
Would you buy an expensive piece of equipment or train staff just in case something might happen once or twice a year?

Old Ladys Gin wrote:
Anyone out there run a business? Of course there is.
Tell me and answer a question please.
Would you buy an expensive piece of equipment or train staff just in case something might happen once or twice a year?

If it was part of my job. i needed it every year and was spending someone else's money.........YES

See a flying pig!! - didn't see a gritter.

Happened before...it'll happen again!

Proud!! Brilliant......What strange people?

People held up for 12 hours on the A23 trying to go South, no one could get past Handcross hill going North. Vehicles abandoned on the dyke road. Damned right you should be proud.

They are having a Giraffe!! Couldn't keep roads open that had only half an inch of snow, just didn't bother where there was any more. Useless. How about we all stop paying road tax and council tax until the money is spent where it is supposed to be spent.

would like to thank the people who parked their cars in bevendean road. There is no considertion for others. So once the snow started clearing the buses where unable to get through again. Why dont the council make bevendean road 1 side parking only. Then it would allow the buses to get through to meadowview. Which is why when the proerties where built along that road. They had a driveway. Sadly the extra cars do not always park over the road . Something needs to be done. Also didnt notice a gritter in meadowview. Please give us our services and help

do the council think we are stupid? Tonight there is grit everywhere - you can see it quite clearly. Monday there was nothing. Unless they were laying that new invisible grit that doesn't work. Elm Grove and Marine Parade were a joke. Hardly any snow and the temperature was only just below freezing. This could have been completely avoided. Well done Green council.

In all fairness, the council did lift parking restrictions for the duration ...

xc90chris wrote:
do the council think we are stupid? Tonight there is grit everywhere - you can see it quite clearly. Monday there was nothing. Unless they were laying that new invisible grit that doesn't work. Elm Grove and Marine Parade were a joke. Hardly any snow and the temperature was only just below freezing. This could have been completely avoided. Well done Green council.

i wonder why you can see it quite clearly???????????
maybe there has been no snow to cover it..... have u ever spread grit on snow???? it doesnt melt it lol

Be proud, be very proud of your council. They were voted in and see what they do for you. So far nothing except take my money. An absolute joke. Good work though....they say. Blinkers or what?

Bunch of whiners who expect to be able to drive everywhere no matter what the weather.

Heavy snow. Below freezing temperature. Hmmmm. Possibly not go for a drive perhaps?

Are these Council folks for real? Are they in Brighton and Hove or just remote acessing from their kingdom in Africa? These politically correct fools caused thousands of people misery and suffering, to say nothing about all the extra pollution caused by them when stranded or trapped vehicles left the engines running to survive- very green. Totally incompetent fools. They should all lose their jobs WITHOUT a payoff

The Highways Agency/Councils response really was a joke.

Ok, lets deal with the issues.

Snowchains? Great if you are the person with them but it doesn't get you magically past the thousands of cars that don't have them.

Gritting- the quantity used must have been tiny. the council are quoting 100 tons on Monday night. I used 0.06 tonnes (thats 60kg) just on my driveway and the road outside my house.

The authorities were invisible. The police probably getting all excited when they had an "incident" rather then dealing with "incidents" proportionally and just pushing vehicles promptly off the road.

So in summary, a pathetic response from incompetent authorities.

So she sat around her dinner table (paid for by us) and said to her husband and kids. "Hey guess what I did today? I sent out a gritter lorry 24 hours after it started snowing! Are you proud of me? I caused absolute carnage and ignored weather warnings.

she then sips on her merlot and smiles.

i wonder how many of the moaners went out to sweep their paths.... or is that someone elses job

ourcoalition wrote:
A few facts to help most of you.

Gritters/Salters were out most of Sunday, all of Monday, all of Tuesday. I was stuck behind one near Uckfield on Sunday evening, and two seperately, on Monday in Brighton/Portslade.

The A23/M23 is the responsibility of the Highways Agencey, not local Councils, so blame the Government -they fund the HA.

With wet snow, high winds on Monday, salt and grit runs off the road in minutes - combine that with a sudden drop in temperature around 4.30pm, and ice forms over the road surface so making further gritting/salting almost pointless.

The biggest problem was stupid drivers, speeding, stopping suddenly, overtaking causing sudden breaking - I know, as I experienced all of these on the A27 bypass at 5pm, and then n Brighton.

The drivers and their managers worked 48 hours non-stop from Sunday - they had to, legally, take some breaks, but I can tell you all the lorries were out 24/7.

They should be thanked, not slated.

And at the end of it all, no one can beat the weather - you can only do what is possible - it would have been far worse without the staffs efforts!

No stupid drivers on the A23 on Monday night, just average people let down by the Highways Agency. I joined the back of the queue near Hickstead at 19.30 I travelled 3.5 miles to the incline at Tates Garage in Pyecombe and got there at 02.30 on Tuesday morning, during that time only one ambulance and one Westbourne Motors wrecker drove up through the line of cars. In those 7 hours there was no high winds drifting the snow, no massive snow falls, no sign of any grit/salt on the road, no gritters, no ploughs, no police cars, no wombles from the Highways Agency in their 4x4's, no Red Cross in fact nobody who would care about the welfare of the trapped motorists, so not really stupid motorists then. When we did reach Pyecombe there was one unmarked police car trying to tow as many cars up the incline as possible, now there is nothing any motorist could have carried in their car to have helped them up that hill except a bag or two of rock salt but then shouldn't that be down to the HA anyway? and in 7 plus hours the HA was not able to get a few tons to the top of the hill and hand spread it so it would have cleared that back log of cars and vans there. I also refute your claim that the drop in temperature would prevent any further gritting/salting being pointless, when I got home at 03.30 I spread some rock salt on my path and driveway, left it for 10 minutes and then drove up my driveway/incline without any problems, so your claim does not hold any water, simple facts that can be proved.

Also another fact you seem to have skipped over regarding B&HCC, the amount of roads covers in miles (1000) and the amount of grit/salt used (315 tons) only equates to 0.06 Grams per foot, if you are a believer that 0.06 grams can be evenly and effectively spread across at 12 foot road then you should apply for the job of transport manager because you seem to know what you are talking about.

Incidentally if you google Christina Liassides, you will find a video at the top of the list from 2010 where she talks about the snow then, seems like she learnt nothing from then either.

I mentioned on the other article how snow is dealt with over here in BC where I'm working at the moment.
Many of the problems/moans quoted above may or may not be valid, but one thing's certain, Sussex does not have enough snow ploughs. Why would the County invest in all that machinery and stock for a few times of uncertainty in any one year.
However, with some joined up thinking there were surrounding counties that did not have snow and it seems to me that with the operational planning in place lease agreements could be uesd to bring in more plant to clear major roads and keep the traffic moving.
I liked the excuse about the run off with the melt and then it frooze. Simple you get back out re-grit and de-ice. Over here we have temperatures that can fluctuate from -36C to 2C and yet the roads are quickly dealt with.

ourcoalition wrote:
A few facts to help most of you.

Gritters/Salters were out most of Sunday, all of Monday, all of Tuesday. I was stuck behind one near Uckfield on Sunday evening, and two seperately, on Monday in Brighton/Portslade.

The A23/M23 is the responsibility of the Highways Agencey, not local Councils, so blame the Government -they fund the HA.

With wet snow, high winds on Monday, salt and grit runs off the road in minutes - combine that with a sudden drop in temperature around 4.30pm, and ice forms over the road surface so making further gritting/salting almost pointless.

The biggest problem was stupid drivers, speeding, stopping suddenly, overtaking causing sudden breaking - I know, as I experienced all of these on the A27 bypass at 5pm, and then n Brighton.

The drivers and their managers worked 48 hours non-stop from Sunday - they had to, legally, take some breaks, but I can tell you all the lorries were out 24/7.

They should be thanked, not slated.

And at the end of it all, no one can beat the weather - you can only do what is possible - it would have been far worse without the staffs efforts!

only worthwhile comment on here

Dave At Home wrote:

ourcoalition wrote:
A few facts to help most of you.

Gritters/Salters were out most of Sunday, all of Monday, all of Tuesday. I was stuck behind one near Uckfield on Sunday evening, and two seperately, on Monday in Brighton/Portslade.

The A23/M23 is the responsibility of the Highways Agencey, not local Councils, so blame the Government -they fund the HA.

With wet snow, high winds on Monday, salt and grit runs off the road in minutes - combine that with a sudden drop in temperature around 4.30pm, and ice forms over the road surface so making further gritting/salting almost pointless.

The biggest problem was stupid drivers, speeding, stopping suddenly, overtaking causing sudden breaking - I know, as I experienced all of these on the A27 bypass at 5pm, and then n Brighton.

The drivers and their managers worked 48 hours non-stop from Sunday - they had to, legally, take some breaks, but I can tell you all the lorries were out 24/7.

They should be thanked, not slated.

And at the end of it all, no one can beat the weather - you can only do what is possible - it would have been far worse without the staffs efforts!

No stupid drivers on the A23 on Monday night, just average people let down by the Highways Agency. I joined the back of the queue near Hickstead at 19.30 I travelled 3.5 miles to the incline at Tates Garage in Pyecombe and got there at 02.30 on Tuesday morning, during that time only one ambulance and one Westbourne Motors wrecker drove up through the line of cars. In those 7 hours there was no high winds drifting the snow, no massive snow falls, no sign of any grit/salt on the road, no gritters, no ploughs, no police cars, no wombles from the Highways Agency in their 4x4's, no Red Cross in fact nobody who would care about the welfare of the trapped motorists, so not really stupid motorists then. When we did reach Pyecombe there was one unmarked police car trying to tow as many cars up the incline as possible, now there is nothing any motorist could have carried in their car to have helped them up that hill except a bag or two of rock salt but then shouldn't that be down to the HA anyway? and in 7 plus hours the HA was not able to get a few tons to the top of the hill and hand spread it so it would have cleared that back log of cars and vans there. I also refute your claim that the drop in temperature would prevent any further gritting/salting being pointless, when I got home at 03.30 I spread some rock salt on my path and driveway, left it for 10 minutes and then drove up my driveway/incline without any problems, so your claim does not hold any water, simple facts that can be proved.

Also another fact you seem to have skipped over regarding B&amp;HCC, the amount of roads covers in miles (1000) and the amount of grit/salt used (315 tons) only equates to 0.06 Grams per foot, if you are a believer that 0.06 grams can be evenly and effectively spread across at 12 foot road then you should apply for the job of transport manager because you seem to know what you are talking about.

Incidentally if you google Christina Liassides, you will find a video at the top of the list from 2010 where she talks about the snow then, seems like she learnt nothing from then either.

Yes - I would be pretty fed up if I had een stuck for hours like you - I was lucky and got through just (and it was just) in time, not to get caught on the A27.

Nevertheless, it doesn't make what I said any the less true. You could grit the incline you describe and it should have been - if the gritters could get there - one went off the A23 itself, on Tuesday morning.

But you can't grit roads where cars are already on them. If you use tons and tons of salt it may have an effect, but there are no lorries made that do that, no where to store that amount of materials, and not enough drivers in the country to spread it (apart from the immense cost).

Gritting and salting will always be inadequate for the sudden temperature drop on Monday - in fact, it is pretty pointless to do this once the ice forms and snow falls on top - the reality is that the lorries only go out then to "pretend" something can be done - it can't.

If you had one lorry per road/mile, just going up and down that bit all the time it might work - who will pay for that, on one or two nights a year?

I am sorry for what happened for you, but these are facts - I'm not defending them, just pointing them out.

gingersandy38 you are spot on about the cars/vans being parked in Bevendean Road. As this is a hilly area, vehicles do this so they can reach Bear Road in bad weather because it's usually free flowing and gritted really well during snow as it's a key route for emergency vehicles and the ambulance station.
However, this practice of parking on this narrow road during snow has got to the point where now the area cannot be gritted because in February a gritter got stranded in Bevendean Road by poorly parked vans and in particular a flatbed scaffolding lorry which left the whole Bear Road/Bevendean Road/Coombe Road one way system closed.
I actually believe that this area was not gritted this week - the first time in 20 years since I've lived here- because it's probably now on a list of areas which are inaccessible to gritters because of poor parking and the truckers are probably told now to stay away from areas where they will get trapped.
I find it astonishing in these areas, that it's the old boys in their 70s who go out clearing these residential streets of snow, yet the beer bellied van drivers sit on their arses dumping their vehicles hoping someone else will do the graft.
My wee wife even spent two hours with a couple of guys in their late 70s clearing pavements and the road to get the traffic moving.
Where are all the students in our community helping to clear pavements and keep the community operating?

Maxwell's Ghost wrote:
gingersandy38 you are spot on about the cars/vans being parked in Bevendean Road. As this is a hilly area, vehicles do this so they can reach Bear Road in bad weather because it's usually free flowing and gritted really well during snow as it's a key route for emergency vehicles and the ambulance station. However, this practice of parking on this narrow road during snow has got to the point where now the area cannot be gritted because in February a gritter got stranded in Bevendean Road by poorly parked vans and in particular a flatbed scaffolding lorry which left the whole Bear Road/Bevendean Road/Coombe Road one way system closed. I actually believe that this area was not gritted this week - the first time in 20 years since I've lived here- because it's probably now on a list of areas which are inaccessible to gritters because of poor parking and the truckers are probably told now to stay away from areas where they will get trapped. I find it astonishing in these areas, that it's the old boys in their 70s who go out clearing these residential streets of snow, yet the beer bellied van drivers sit on their arses dumping their vehicles hoping someone else will do the graft. My wee wife even spent two hours with a couple of guys in their late 70s clearing pavements and the road to get the traffic moving. Where are all the students in our community helping to clear pavements and keep the community operating?

I cleared and sanded car tracks in Natal road behind the uni a couple of years back, and the students along my road were too pre-occupied making igloos out of recycling bins to help. I even dug some of their cars out, and did not even get a thank you. But that's the 'increase numbers of foreign students' policy for you.

L1540 wrote:
my son took two hours to get home from my house in the avenue, (he lives just over a mile away if that) he couldnt get up coombe road so had to go back down, the traffic was at a standstill in Lewes road, everywhere cars sliding etc he got to his home in Findon road whitehawk 2 hours later, there was no gritting done in the avenue we see them all the time with lights flashing,
before the snow came down harder and faster i picked my daughter up from moulscombe way and along hodshrove road it was just snow, 2 lots of tyre tracks i warned a bus driver at hillside he wasnt going to get up there as it wasnt gritted within 5 minutes the buses were pulled off the east moulscombe route couldnt get through
the men and women working the gritters do a grand job but its behind the scenes that have to give permission to grit so i'm told, i mean what happened the last snow fall? it was great the roads were all gritted and seemed good.... what went wrong this time BHCC?????

A mile away? Why didn't he just walk? What a whinger.

People claiming benefits and subsidies should be forced to support snow clearance.If this was applied in Brighton, every road would have been clear.

I think the "water solution" made everything worse.

Rather than blaming the authorities might I suggest that motorists accept a little more responsibility when venturing out during the winter months. i.e. winter/snow tyres, they can make a substantial difference.

graham_Seagull wrote:
Bunch of whiners who expect to be able to drive everywhere no matter what the weather.

Heavy snow. Below freezing temperature. Hmmmm. Possibly not go for a drive perhaps?

Really??!! So everybody stuck in the jams was just "going for a drive" like it is some optional pleasure\leisure activity!! Where does driving to and from work to earn a living come into it then, bear in mind this happened after people were already away from home. Hmmm shall i not go to work and not get paid then. Think before posting..

Why so many complaints?

You voted for a Green council, and you GOT a Green council, with all of its concomitant political-correctnes
s and incompetence.

Made In Sussex wrote:

graham_Seagull wrote:
Bunch of whiners who expect to be able to drive everywhere no matter what the weather.

Heavy snow. Below freezing temperature. Hmmmm. Possibly not go for a drive perhaps?

Really??!! So everybody stuck in the jams was just &quot;going for a drive" like it is some optional pleasure\leisure activity!! Where does driving to and from work to earn a living come into it then, bear in mind this happened after people were already away from home. Hmmm shall i not go to work and not get paid then. Think before posting..

Well said. Since when were thousands of commuters just a "bunch" of people? Having had the most nerve-wracking drive home ever (no exaggeration), I resent being called a "whiner" just because I'd been at work. And also it's true that there was no indication of how bad, at the start of the day, the roads were going to be by the end of it. We put our trust in the powers that be to monitor road conditions so that motorists can travel safely. They didn't do this and they let us down. They should take their share of the blame for the economic disruption that ensued, and I would gladly sign any petition calling for resignations at the top. Oh, and contrary to what some contributors here are saying, most drivers were very good - very cautious - and just because some were reckless doesn't mean we all were!

The councils generate enough hot air to melt all the snow.

I'm sorry but this is either a complete attempt to cover up serious mistakes or the Council's management are out of touch with their operational resources.
I was on security duty in Brighton from 8pm to 8.30am Monday evening/night and the whole area's roads were like an ice rink. I've never seen Lewes Road and the coast road through to Peacehaven as icy.
Apart from snow drifts on exposed higher ground the snow cover was minimal, it certainly was not 10cm as suggested.
I had been watching the clear weather warnings on all TV news programmes for 48hrs prior but on Monday evening/night we saw no gritters in Brighton until around 5am Tuesday morning. We have clear CCTV coverage of the area and there were definitely no gritters in sight that evening.
I even had to help police officers stranded on Coldean Lane by giving them a lift back to their station as once again, Coldean Lane was like a ski slope. How our emergency services are supposed to offer effective coverage when the council don't maintain the roads is extremely concerning for all B&H tax paying residents.
B&H buses and all taxis could not operate either and what can I say for all those poor people who had to sleep in their vehicles overnight in sub-zero temperatures. My 4x4 vehicle registered -4 degrees through the night.
We have snow and ice every year, we all know the problem areas and roads worst effected, it's pure common sense and a little bit of foresight and planning that is required, not much to expect is it?
Why don't the council's management just be truthful and admit that they got it wrong on this occasion, tell us what they've learnt from it and give us all some reassurance for the next time the weather forecasts look as bad.

Need a gun pointed at me head to ever vote Green! - more than that to ever vote Tory!!

I was very lucky in that it only took me two hours to get from Kemptown to Saltdean, leaving at 4pm. There were cars sliding down the hill on the A259 at Ovingdean roundabout and they were going 1 mph at the most. My poor friend was stuck on the A23 for nine hours with no help from anyone. I finally found her a room at a B and B in Horsham and she had to drive on the hard shoulder to somehow get there at 1.30 a.m. Thanks to all at Springfields Hotel for staying up for her and making her welcome. It makes me mad when people say that there were bad drivers, no one could move, let alone drive badly.

Usually when the snow has thawed you will see large amounts of grit in the gutters. There is none along the Lewes road (From level to Sainsburys) and I did not see any grit in the gutters in Coombe road when walking home yesterday afternoon. It takes a long time to disperse down the drains and when I lived in Bear road I would have to sweep it up and bin bag it because it was clogging the drains (back in 2010). I was out and about along Ditchling, London & Lewes road on Monday and did not see one gritter during the day. For B.H.C.C to say they are "Proud" just beggars belief!!

Lostandaway wrote:
I mentioned on the other article how snow is dealt with over here in BC where I'm working at the moment.
Many of the problems/moans quoted above may or may not be valid, but one thing's certain, Sussex does not have enough snow ploughs. Why would the County invest in all that machinery and stock for a few times of uncertainty in any one year.
However, with some joined up thinking there were surrounding counties that did not have snow and it seems to me that with the operational planning in place lease agreements could be uesd to bring in more plant to clear major roads and keep the traffic moving.
I liked the excuse about the run off with the melt and then it frooze. Simple you get back out re-grit and de-ice. Over here we have temperatures that can fluctuate from -36C to 2C and yet the roads are quickly dealt with.

I do think you should email your views to the Council. You clearly have a lot of knowledge and common sense, something this Council do not possess!

runnergirl wrote:
Just under four hours to Brighton from north of Worthing, with cars queueing up to slew out of control, particularly on the upward slopes, where clearly there was no evidence whatsoever of any prior gritting treatment. Not once did I see a gritting vehicle or any grit on any of the roads, either in or out of town. Only a public inquiry - or an investigation by the Ombudsman's office into dereliction of duty - will establish just what kind of service the Highways Agency and local councils were offering on Monday. They should be compelled to publish - with maps - exactly which roads they claim to have treated, and when. Either that or thousands of motorists need to go to Specsavers.

It took me over 2 hours to go the opposite direction to you - there is absolutely no way that the A27 had been gritted! Traffic going east was far heavier than heading west, and it looked near on impossible to get up the hill before the Southwick Tunnel. Completely agree with you!

ourcoalition wrote:
A few facts to help most of you.

Gritters/Salters were out most of Sunday, all of Monday, all of Tuesday. I was stuck behind one near Uckfield on Sunday evening, and two seperately, on Monday in Brighton/Portslade.

The A23/M23 is the responsibility of the Highways Agencey, not local Councils, so blame the Government -they fund the HA.

With wet snow, high winds on Monday, salt and grit runs off the road in minutes - combine that with a sudden drop in temperature around 4.30pm, and ice forms over the road surface so making further gritting/salting almost pointless.

The biggest problem was stupid drivers, speeding, stopping suddenly, overtaking causing sudden breaking - I know, as I experienced all of these on the A27 bypass at 5pm, and then n Brighton.

The drivers and their managers worked 48 hours non-stop from Sunday - they had to, legally, take some breaks, but I can tell you all the lorries were out 24/7.

They should be thanked, not slated.

And at the end of it all, no one can beat the weather - you can only do what is possible - it would have been far worse without the staffs efforts!

If they were out for the amount of time you state, what happened to the A27? Did they forget about it? There is no way that road had been gritted in either direction, at least from Brighton to Worthing.

If they're so "proud" of what they claim to have achieved on Monday night, I'd hate to think what sort of circumstances would have led them to being ashamed of themselves ...

Made In Sussex wrote:

graham_Seagull wrote:
Bunch of whiners who expect to be able to drive everywhere no matter what the weather.

Heavy snow. Below freezing temperature. Hmmmm. Possibly not go for a drive perhaps?

Really??!! So everybody stuck in the jams was just &quot;going for a drive" like it is some optional pleasure\leisure activity!! Where does driving to and from work to earn a living come into it then, bear in mind this happened after people were already away from home. Hmmm shall i not go to work and not get paid then. Think before posting..

Hear, hear. I am an agency worker - if I don't go to work, I don't get paid. I can't get to work any way other than car, because of the time of day that my childcare provider starts and ends. I lost a day's pay the day after the snow, as I had left work at 5pm and got home at 6am due to the shambles on the A23. Since I had been up at 6:30am the day before, I therefore went almost 24 hours without sleep and couldn't possibly go in to work that day. You think I can ask for a discount on my council tax this month for them to compensate me? Oh wait I think I see a pig flying by the window...

chin up everyone, it's only a bit of snow. Will be summer soon.

I spent 7 hours trying to get from Bolney to Brighton and the two reasons for the chaos were that not one ounce of grit had been laid on the southbound carriageway of the A23. If the authorities had gritted at the about 4 o'clock the roads would probably have been clear. The second reason is that few drivers are ever taught how to cope with inclement conditions, I say inclement because nowhere on the A23 was the snow deeper than 2". I know that no one will be held responsible but I would like to see the manager in charge of gritting get the sack for total incompetence

I left my office near Bromley at 5pm - where it had been snowing most of the day without settling on the well treated roads.
It snowed all round the M25 and down the M23, again, without settling.
As I got to the A23, it was settling. Why? lack of treatment? At Pease Pottage, I met the back of the queue that stretched to Brighton, and I sat, without moving, for 5 hours. I noted updates from friends at Handcross, Burgess Hill, Hurst, Pycombe. All stuck. So basically, the southbound queue was 20 miles.
Northbound was almost as long.
Handcross Hill currently has scheduled closures every night, and I suspect that because it was due to be closed anyway then any treatment of the road was light, at best.
At Pease Pottage, in that 5 hours, less than an inch of snow fell. At its deepest, around the Burgess Hill turn off, it was 2-3 inches max.
This amount should not close major arterial roads. So despite the Highways agency claiming adequate gritting, it didn't work, so they should have been ploughing.
I eventually got home at 7am. 14 hours door to door.
It seemed there was no emergency plan whatsoever. absolutely no communication. The police, actually refused to give updates on the only radio station giving information.
In 12 hours on the A23, i saw one police car escorting a gritter, which couldnt get through 'cos the traffic was so thick. No other police or Highways vehicles, and no Red Cross, which the media suggested were ensuring the welfare of people in the queue (I understand there was some northbound?)
We will never stop snow affecting the roads, but there must be better emergency plans and above all communication when it does. Throughout this, the Highway Agency website was quoting 40minute delays! However, there was nothing. Utterly unacceptable? And then you have the fools in Brighton Council saying they are proud of the efforts - totally out of touch with reality.
The media completely under-reported the numbers affected. 20 miles southbound, similar northbound, at least 2 lanes each way - this was several thousand cars, not a few hundred motorists. I suspect it was even 10,000 cars.
The councils and responsible authorities need to establish far better plans, and react far better to these increasingly regular incidents (I was held up for 6 hours due to snow in January).
It isn't about drivers being better trained for 2 incidents a year, or better equipped, as if just one isn't, or one doesn't have snow chains, then the others are stuck behind them, however good they are.
If we compare to the continent, where these things don't seem to happen, then in many areas, winter tyres are compulsory. Again that will never happen here.
So if we cant stop it happening and we are not going to be equipped, then we need to set up to deal with the people who get stuck, not leave them in the dark and cold without any information or potentially food / water / blankets for 12 hours. Diabolical lack of ownership or planning.

Usually the reason why Brighton and Hove comes to a standstill during snowy weather is because, the grit pit isn't housed (not under cover) so all the salt washes away or dissolves and is deemed useless. The grit pit had to be re-built earlier this year as the salt was seeping into the freshwater drains, whilst in the re-build no roof was added? .... Puzzles me why?!! Wet grit does not spread very well and comes out the spreading machinery in clumps. So demand a roof for the grit pit and would be cost effective in the long run!!

Having taken some 4 1/2 hours to get from Brighton Marina to Peacehaven, I dread to think how long this would have taken if the major A259 road had not been so successfully "treated".

I wonder how "proud" the council would be if anyone had frozen to death on the A23?