Hove school introduces iPads for all pupils (From The Argus)

These heads live on a different planet !!!! They may get very nice salaries but not everyone does.

They already ask for too much money from parents for art materials, food tech ingredients, money for trips, school funds ( the biggest con of them all !! ) and branded uniforms. Now Hove Park expects parents to payout for iPads.

I see Mr Trimmer doesn't say what happens if a parent refuses to pay for an iPad ?

Nor does he seem to acknowledge that we already pay for our state schools through our taxes. There should be no further charges on top of those taxes for our children to attend state school.

If Mr Trimmer wants the school to use iPads fine but the school should pay for all of them. I bet the teachers don't have to pay for theirs !!!!

Besides, how does he justify using a tablet that is over-priced because of the name Apple rather than far cheaper and more powerful alternatives ? Con, con, con and hopefully the parents will refuse to pay.

They had a Burglary at a School in Worthing recently and Guess what was stolen?

....Angry Birds anyone?

I think what Mr Trimmer and his team have done at Hove Park is amazing and this new initiative makes me proud to be a Hove Park parent. Well worth 12 quid a month in my book!

What planet are these people on?

There is no genuine need for IPads in schools!

What happens if they are lost or stolen? What's wrong with the standard 'exercise book'/Pen and paper? Too many questions without any real logical answers!

Lets just build robots and make all teachers redundant!! Pathetic!!!

Why cant they take their own most kids these days have them don't they ?
or smart phones do the same!
Cut backs on education where?

So any child now wearing a Hove Park uniform is an easy target for muggers knowing that these children have to carry their iPads to and from school everyday...

To add to my last comment we were not even allowed a calculator in the 70's even rulers that had them built in were confiscated.
Whats happened to learning or do they call it cheating now ?

There is nothing innovative about Apple or its products. They could get androids for a lot less. Idiots.

urbawar wrote:
I think what Mr Trimmer and his team have done at Hove Park is amazing and this new initiative makes me proud to be a Hove Park parent. Well worth 12 quid a month in my book!

And what about parents who can't afford it or just won't pay ? £12 a month might be OK for you but in our house that, along with all the other increases in living recently, is money we couldn't afford. I know Blatch where my step-daughter goes are planning this as well. Add in my other two children and we're talking significant amounts of money.

It is rather hypocritical of teachers to expect parents to fund more and more things for school yet go on strike when THEIR pay packet is hit by the government.

PS - note to Blatch - I won't be paying for an iPad !!!!!

Just another example of dumbing-down in society. Children will grow up with no written or mathematical skills, problems solving abilities or the understanding of how the world works.

Humans will evolve into one-armed creatures with a single digit to press the pads etc, one eye and large, flat buttocks to accommodate all the time spent sitting on the backside looking at a screen.

What a rip off! Ipads are the most over priced tablets on the market. Kids should be using a Raspberry Pi to encourage them to learn real IT and coding skills.

All the apps on these I-pads cost a fortune, there is very little practical value to these tablets. They are good for web browsing, playing stupid games and that is about it!

This headteacher is clearly out of touch with technology-I would love to understand what skills children will learn from using these Ipads.

Ipads for children! Seriously?

What an appalling waste of money.

I would have 1% more time for this idea (so still not much) if it was suggesting £100 Kindles or Nexus7s but 300 quid a pop toys? That is outragous.

I see too that teachers are shortly to strike because they want more money and less work. What planet do these people live on?

uniteagainstparkingc
harges wrote:
What a rip off! Ipads are the most over priced tablets on the market. Kids should be using a Raspberry Pi to encourage them to learn real IT and coding skills.

All the apps on these I-pads cost a fortune, there is very little practical value to these tablets. They are good for web browsing, playing stupid games and that is about it!

This headteacher is clearly out of touch with technology-I would love to understand what skills children will learn from using these Ipads.

I totally agree with you.

I agree with the idea that students need to move on technologically. As good as hand writing skills are, in the world these students will be working in, will pen and paper be that important? Probably not.
In terms of the cost and Apple being a rip off. Most places use Apple due to their excellent education packages and support, some not offered with Kindles and others.
I would say its a bit harsh making parents pay out £300 a go though, and perhaps there should be some sort of depost scheme where the student gives it back at the end of the year? Its the way the world is going, for better or worse, students need to be set up for it if they are going to have any chance of a decent living.

This was done over a hundred years ago.... it was called the i-slate...

I'll tell you how all this has come about as I used to be an IT Manager in a large school and I know from first – hand experience how this type of thing gets approved; One or more members of the SMT (Senior Management Team), probably the one with “ICT responsibility”, decides they need an iPad for email and shared calendar, next thing you know they all have them and of course as they are generally not particularly it literate, they think they are the best thing since sliced bread. Then the Head thinks "These are marvellous I want everybody to have these" and tasks some poor schmuk with "making it happen". They forget about the consequences such as requirements for secure campus-wide wi-fi connectivity, charging and security of the hardware, locking the tablets down to prevent downloading of Apps (impossible if this is a privately owned device) and also the impact this will have on the central systems by way of increased data storage requirements from staff. I can almost guarantee the underlying infrastructure is in need of modernisation; schools are notoriously difficult to get money out of for server virtualisation and storage projects and I am prepared to bet a week’s wages that little thought has been put into the security of data (backup / replication / offsite storage). I'll bet there has been limited investment in the underlying networking topology and also that they are running several "legacy" applications, some of which will be core systems, that should have been retired years ago. This smacks of a project that has got the green light with little or no thought given to the real world implications as detailed above, let alone the safety and security of the devices themselves when they are on or off school property. As somebody rightly says - Hove Park kids are now a target for muggers because there is every chance they will have an iPad in their bag. Parents "at financial risk" can't afford to send their kids to school in proper clothes and shoes let alone pay for an ipad. I would suggest a bursary has been setup to cover this but really this is just the tip of the iceberg. There is a saying for this “Shiny Thing Make Everything Better”………th
is is a total and utter waste of money and I’ll further guarantee that if you asked members of the teaching and support staff what they really think, they will tell you that there are numerous areas of the site fabric and or environment that the money could be better applied to.

uniteagainstparkingc
harges wrote:
What a rip off! Ipads are the most over priced tablets on the market. Kids should be using a Raspberry Pi to encourage them to learn real IT and coding skills.

All the apps on these I-pads cost a fortune, there is very little practical value to these tablets. They are good for web browsing, playing stupid games and that is about it!

This headteacher is clearly out of touch with technology-I would love to understand what skills children will learn from using these Ipads.

Genius comment. A Raspberry Pi costs about £20 and will help children learn something useful.

iPads are great for browsing the internet, a little photography and video maybe, but at this stage teenagers should be improving their handwriting rather than typing.

toldsloth wrote:
I'll tell you how all this has come about as I used to be an IT Manager in a large school and I know from first – hand experience how this type of thing gets approved; One or more members of the SMT (Senior Management Team), probably the one with “ICT responsibility”, decides they need an iPad for email and shared calendar, next thing you know they all have them and of course as they are generally not particularly it literate, they think they are the best thing since sliced bread. Then the Head thinks "These are marvellous I want everybody to have these" and tasks some poor schmuk with "making it happen". They forget about the consequences such as requirements for secure campus-wide wi-fi connectivity, charging and security of the hardware, locking the tablets down to prevent downloading of Apps (impossible if this is a privately owned device) and also the impact this will have on the central systems by way of increased data storage requirements from staff. I can almost guarantee the underlying infrastructure is in need of modernisation; schools are notoriously difficult to get money out of for server virtualisation and storage projects and I am prepared to bet a week’s wages that little thought has been put into the security of data (backup / replication / offsite storage). I'll bet there has been limited investment in the underlying networking topology and also that they are running several "legacy" applications, some of which will be core systems, that should have been retired years ago. This smacks of a project that has got the green light with little or no thought given to the real world implications as detailed above, let alone the safety and security of the devices themselves when they are on or off school property. As somebody rightly says - Hove Park kids are now a target for muggers because there is every chance they will have an iPad in their bag. Parents "at financial risk" can't afford to send their kids to school in proper clothes and shoes let alone pay for an ipad. I would suggest a bursary has been setup to cover this but really this is just the tip of the iceberg. There is a saying for this “Shiny Thing Make Everything Better”………th

is is a total and utter waste of money and I’ll further guarantee that if you asked members of the teaching and support staff what they really think, they will tell you that there are numerous areas of the site fabric and or environment that the money could be better applied to.

As someone that works in IT I agree with you entirely. The Head has gone for this to grab headlines and to look trendy. If I were a parent there I'd be asking to see the assessment documents around which tablet to select ( was there any comparison carried out and what were the success and fail criteria ? ), the detailed integration plans into the schools current technology base, the assessment documents about which suppliers to use and guarantees about a fixed price contract ( public bodies such as schools, councils and police are very very poor at making their minds up and then not changing them - they then complain when the price goes up when they change what they want ) and how are these "parent owned" assets going to be insured while on school property ? Will that be ANOTHER cost to the parents ?

How will the school deal with technology updates in the IT world ? What if some children have iPads that can't take software updates for the schools applications in say two years time ? Are the school expecting parents to keep their child's iPad up to a certain specification and so maybe having to buy an iPad in the first year and then again three years later ?

Seriously, if you're a parent with a child at Hove Park YOU needs to ask these and other questions and DEMAND answers. Heads rarely understand the world of IT and just ask the ICT teacher who is never up to date.

Fight_Back wrote:

toldsloth wrote: I'll tell you how all this has come about as I used to be an IT Manager in a large school and I know from first – hand experience how this type of thing gets approved; One or more members of the SMT (Senior Management Team), probably the one with “ICT responsibility”, decides they need an iPad for email and shared calendar, next thing you know they all have them and of course as they are generally not particularly it literate, they think they are the best thing since sliced bread. Then the Head thinks "These are marvellous I want everybody to have these" and tasks some poor schmuk with "making it happen". They forget about the consequences such as requirements for secure campus-wide wi-fi connectivity, charging and security of the hardware, locking the tablets down to prevent downloading of Apps (impossible if this is a privately owned device) and also the impact this will have on the central systems by way of increased data storage requirements from staff. I can almost guarantee the underlying infrastructure is in need of modernisation; schools are notoriously difficult to get money out of for server virtualisation and storage projects and I am prepared to bet a week’s wages that little thought has been put into the security of data (backup / replication / offsite storage). I'll bet there has been limited investment in the underlying networking topology and also that they are running several "legacy" applications, some of which will be core systems, that should have been retired years ago. This smacks of a project that has got the green light with little or no thought given to the real world implications as detailed above, let alone the safety and security of the devices themselves when they are on or off school property. As somebody rightly says - Hove Park kids are now a target for muggers because there is every chance they will have an iPad in their bag. Parents "at financial risk" can't afford to send their kids to school in proper clothes and shoes let alone pay for an ipad. I would suggest a bursary has been setup to cover this but really this is just the tip of the iceberg. There is a saying for this “Shiny Thing Make Everything Better”………th is is a total and utter waste of money and I’ll further guarantee that if you asked members of the teaching and support staff what they really think, they will tell you that there are numerous areas of the site fabric and or environment that the money could be better applied to.

As someone that works in IT I agree with you entirely. The Head has gone for this to grab headlines and to look trendy. If I were a parent there I'd be asking to see the assessment documents around which tablet to select ( was there any comparison carried out and what were the success and fail criteria ? ), the detailed integration plans into the schools current technology base, the assessment documents about which suppliers to use and guarantees about a fixed price contract ( public bodies such as schools, councils and police are very very poor at making their minds up and then not changing them - they then complain when the price goes up when they change what they want ) and how are these "parent owned" assets going to be insured while on school property ? Will that be ANOTHER cost to the parents ? How will the school deal with technology updates in the IT world ? What if some children have iPads that can't take software updates for the schools applications in say two years time ? Are the school expecting parents to keep their child's iPad up to a certain specification and so maybe having to buy an iPad in the first year and then again three years later ? Seriously, if you're a parent with a child at Hove Park YOU needs to ask these and other questions and DEMAND answers. Heads rarely understand the world of IT and just ask the ICT teacher who is never up to date.

As an IT professional I can say that these 2 posts have pointed out a lot of key questions that need addressing and probably haven't been.

Translating a top line headline relating to a proposed IT project into an actual working solution is a task in itself and I wonder how many of the people making this decision have those skills ?

Also surely tablets with less available apps would give the opportunity for the students to develop apps that to cover a demand that isn't met and hence learn something. The comment about Raspeberry Pi is very valid as well.

Plunge wrote:
....Angry Birds anyone?

pssssst anyone wanna ipad,got 900 going cheap cheap!!! there all regal honest guv

Typical Hove attitude - ignore the homeless and dying, lets spend the last of the cash on idiotic LIBERAL ideas.


Had enough of this city, despite being born here, and too poor to move, unlike these left wing idiots that float in with pathetic ideas from London and the rest of the UK.


Funny how this place has turned to cr*p SINCE you lot moved here.

whereisthe...? wrote:
Typical Hove attitude - ignore the homeless and dying, lets spend the last of the cash on idiotic LIBERAL ideas.


Had enough of this city, despite being born here, and too poor to move, unlike these left wing idiots that float in with pathetic ideas from London and the rest of the UK.


Funny how this place has turned to cr*p SINCE you lot moved here.

That's a fair amount of misplaced frustration you are exhibiting.

I think you need to go and have a lie down as your medication seems to be wearing off.

I agree that what Mr Trimmer and his team have achieved in the last 18-24 months is fantastic. And guess what - they did it all without iPads.
I totally accept that the world our children will go out into is changing and that education must change too. But if the user does not have the fundamental abilities of literacy and numeracy, all any device is is a pretty shiny and very expensive toy.
The same week we were presented with the strong-arm tactic to 'persuade'
us to buy an iPad, the Parents' Association sent out a request for free skilled labour, volunteers, materials and tools to help improve the school buildings and surroundings.
I think there is a lack of perspective here!

I have twins at Hove Park School and although second child get 50% discount I will still have to stump up nearly £20 pm.

What isn't mentioned in this news item is that those that cannot afford to pay upfront and pay monthly will pay more overall than those that can pay in one hit. There is 'extra' over 24 months as the cost includes financing!!! I complained about this what was the schools response? They firstly totally ignored my complaint about the penalty for monthly payers and offered to save me money by removing the insurance!!! No insurance on a £200 + device taken in my two children backpacks to and from school – yeh right!

Mr Trimmer says no one will be disadvantaged if they can’t afford one but would you want your child the only one in class without one, especially as work will be arranged around the iPad?!!

There are cheaper (and better) tablets but only Apple have the complete scholastic package that floats the heads boat.

bakermum wrote:
I agree that what Mr Trimmer and his team have achieved in the last 18-24 months is fantastic. And guess what - they did it all without iPads.
I totally accept that the world our children will go out into is changing and that education must change too. But if the user does not have the fundamental abilities of literacy and numeracy, all any device is is a pretty shiny and very expensive toy.
The same week we were presented with the strong-arm tactic to 'persuade'
us to buy an iPad, the Parents' Association sent out a request for free skilled labour, volunteers, materials and tools to help improve the school buildings and surroundings.
I think there is a lack of perspective here!

Out of interest what were those "strong-arm tactics" ? Emotional blackmail that your child would be the odd one out would be my guess ?

Fight_Back wrote:

bakermum wrote:
I agree that what Mr Trimmer and his team have achieved in the last 18-24 months is fantastic. And guess what - they did it all without iPads.
I totally accept that the world our children will go out into is changing and that education must change too. But if the user does not have the fundamental abilities of literacy and numeracy, all any device is is a pretty shiny and very expensive toy.
The same week we were presented with the strong-arm tactic to 'persuade'
us to buy an iPad, the Parents' Association sent out a request for free skilled labour, volunteers, materials and tools to help improve the school buildings and surroundings.
I think there is a lack of perspective here!

Out of interest what were those "strong-arm tactics" ? Emotional blackmail that your child would be the odd one out would be my guess ?

You got it. And it was all presented as a done-deal. The decision has been made that this is the way forward, end of story. I do believe that the school is capable of great things but it needs to put all the razzamatazz aside and focus on getting the basics right.

I would be really interested to know how many comments on here come from Hove Park parents, as apart from friends it is difficult to gauge how many others feel like I do about it.

whereisthe...? wrote:
Typical Hove attitude - ignore the homeless and dying, lets spend the last of the cash on idiotic LIBERAL ideas.


Had enough of this city, despite being born here, and too poor to move, unlike these left wing idiots that float in with pathetic ideas from London and the rest of the UK.


Funny how this place has turned to cr*p SINCE you lot moved here.

I call shenanigans! Whereisthe...? Is usually ranting about tories and the right, but now is ranting about 'liberal attitudes' like a right winger.

I ask you sir, are you of the left or just a troll ranting for your own amusement.

Cave Johnson wrote:
There is nothing innovative about Apple or its products. They could get androids for a lot less. Idiots.

But if they purchased androids the head wouldn't get commision from Apple.

How much commision is the head getting and what is he spending it on if not himself ?

bakermum wrote:

Fight_Back wrote:

bakermum wrote:
I agree that what Mr Trimmer and his team have achieved in the last 18-24 months is fantastic. And guess what - they did it all without iPads.
I totally accept that the world our children will go out into is changing and that education must change too. But if the user does not have the fundamental abilities of literacy and numeracy, all any device is is a pretty shiny and very expensive toy.
The same week we were presented with the strong-arm tactic to 'persuade'
us to buy an iPad, the Parents' Association sent out a request for free skilled labour, volunteers, materials and tools to help improve the school buildings and surroundings.
I think there is a lack of perspective here!

Out of interest what were those "strong-arm tactics" ? Emotional blackmail that your child would be the odd one out would be my guess ?

You got it. And it was all presented as a done-deal. The decision has been made that this is the way forward, end of story. I do believe that the school is capable of great things but it needs to put all the razzamatazz aside and focus on getting the basics right.

I would be really interested to know how many comments on here come from Hove Park parents, as apart from friends it is difficult to gauge how many others feel like I do about it.

I'm a Hove Park parent (see my earlier post) and the school is completely ignoring any negative feedback. Mr Trimmer quotes the complaints about the change to a school uniform. What he doesn't mention is there was a parent vote whether to bring it back! There was NO consultation over the iPads!

Might be interested to find out how much the teaching staffs iPads are costing them! Not a lot I can bet.

alot of parants cant evan afford a mobile phone so how the how can they own an ipad lots of parants cant afford internet conection and of course now all the criminals out there know where to mug !!!

does anyone know how much poor people have to pay a month?enlighten me someone,alot of people havent got an extra £12 a month so is he punishing poor families ?bet he loves david cameron cruelty to the poor

bakermum wrote:

Fight_Back wrote:

bakermum wrote:
I agree that what Mr Trimmer and his team have achieved in the last 18-24 months is fantastic. And guess what - they did it all without iPads.
I totally accept that the world our children will go out into is changing and that education must change too. But if the user does not have the fundamental abilities of literacy and numeracy, all any device is is a pretty shiny and very expensive toy.
The same week we were presented with the strong-arm tactic to 'persuade'
us to buy an iPad, the Parents' Association sent out a request for free skilled labour, volunteers, materials and tools to help improve the school buildings and surroundings.
I think there is a lack of perspective here!

Out of interest what were those "strong-arm tactics" ? Emotional blackmail that your child would be the odd one out would be my guess ?

You got it. And it was all presented as a done-deal. The decision has been made that this is the way forward, end of story. I do believe that the school is capable of great things but it needs to put all the razzamatazz aside and focus on getting the basics right.

I would be really interested to know how many comments on here come from Hove Park parents, as apart from friends it is difficult to gauge how many others feel like I do about it.

I don't have children at Hove Park but as mentioned previously I do have a child at Blatchington Mill and two other children who will be moving to senior school over the next few years. Blatch are thinking of doing the same thing as Hove Park and I'm sure all the other senior schools will do the same if it is successful. I can assure you I won't be buying my children iPads regardless of any emotional pressure from any school heads.

Hove Park need to explain what happens when parents don't buy an iPad but of course that deflects from the glorious shiny headline.

blenky wrote:
I have twins at Hove Park School and although second child get 50% discount I will still have to stump up nearly £20 pm.

What isn't mentioned in this news item is that those that cannot afford to pay upfront and pay monthly will pay more overall than those that can pay in one hit. There is 'extra' over 24 months as the cost includes financing!!! I complained about this what was the schools response? They firstly totally ignored my complaint about the penalty for monthly payers and offered to save me money by removing the insurance!!! No insurance on a £200 + device taken in my two children backpacks to and from school – yeh right!

Mr Trimmer says no one will be disadvantaged if they can’t afford one but would you want your child the only one in class without one, especially as work will be arranged around the iPad?!!

There are cheaper (and better) tablets but only Apple have the complete scholastic package that floats the heads boat.

get him sacked he obviously dont like poor people he is a disgrace saying that id get them comments in headlines if i was you

There are certain questions that need to be asked such as the possibility of commission being paid.

Any project like this needs to have the majority support of the parents and should be totally transparrent.

If any parent wishes to have the full details then a "Freedom of Information" request needs to be made. This cannot be refused and is a reasonable request for what is in fact a tax on their childrens education.

I would hope that those parents who can afford to purchase one or more of these devices would take into consideration and be empathetic for those parents who cannot.

I doubt there are any kickbacks happening here. In the PDF sent to the parents it states -
"In our research we tried a range of devices. In the end we designed
the project around the introduction of iPads. When compared to other
devices we felt that the range of iPad hardware and software was most
likely to have an immediate positive impact on teaching and learning.
In particular, our evaluation highlighted:
• The reliability of the devices. Proven to be durable.
• The high quality of software to support learning in the App Store.
• In an extensive survey we asked how many of our students already
owned a personal learning device that they could bring in to school. Of
those who did, the proportion of students who owned an Apple iPad
compared to any other tablet device was 4:1.
• Apple TV. This device allows any iPad to be connected quickly to the
classroom board or TV screen. This speeds up the ability of the class to
share work and conduct peer assessment. No other platform could offer
a similar level of performance in a device.
• Training Support. The range of practical training and development
offered to staff will enable them to start modifying their practice and
transforming learning with confidence from the outset.
• Volume app purchasing from the App Store. This recent development will
enable the school to ensure that all students and teachers have access
to the same set of educational tools at a significant discount.
• MDM. Our Lightspeed Mobile Device Management system does
exactly what we need it to. It will give us the ability to operate a safe
and dynamic wireless network for staff and students. It is currently only
available on iOS devices.
• iTunes U. This platform, widely used to give access to online learning
in the university sector is now available to schools. Over the coming
months we will be transferring all of our schemes of work and lesson
materials to this platform. As parents, you will be able to subscribe to
the courses your child is studying and see exactly what they are being
asked to learn.
These factors together add up to a substantial benefit to Hove Park School
and give us a strong platform on which to build our transformation."

Bar6ara wrote:
I doubt there are any kickbacks happening here. In the PDF sent to the parents it states -
"In our research we tried a range of devices. In the end we designed
the project around the introduction of iPads. When compared to other
devices we felt that the range of iPad hardware and software was most
likely to have an immediate positive impact on teaching and learning.
In particular, our evaluation highlighted:
• The reliability of the devices. Proven to be durable.
• The high quality of software to support learning in the App Store.
• In an extensive survey we asked how many of our students already
owned a personal learning device that they could bring in to school. Of
those who did, the proportion of students who owned an Apple iPad
compared to any other tablet device was 4:1.
• Apple TV. This device allows any iPad to be connected quickly to the
classroom board or TV screen. This speeds up the ability of the class to
share work and conduct peer assessment. No other platform could offer
a similar level of performance in a device.
• Training Support. The range of practical training and development
offered to staff will enable them to start modifying their practice and
transforming learning with confidence from the outset.
• Volume app purchasing from the App Store. This recent development will
enable the school to ensure that all students and teachers have access
to the same set of educational tools at a significant discount.
• MDM. Our Lightspeed Mobile Device Management system does
exactly what we need it to. It will give us the ability to operate a safe
and dynamic wireless network for staff and students. It is currently only
available on iOS devices.
• iTunes U. This platform, widely used to give access to online learning
in the university sector is now available to schools. Over the coming
months we will be transferring all of our schemes of work and lesson
materials to this platform. As parents, you will be able to subscribe to
the courses your child is studying and see exactly what they are being
asked to learn.
These factors together add up to a substantial benefit to Hove Park School
and give us a strong platform on which to build our transformation."

what a load of rubbish

Bar6ara wrote:
I doubt there are any kickbacks happening here. In the PDF sent to the parents it states -
"In our research we tried a range of devices. In the end we designed
the project around the introduction of iPads. When compared to other
devices we felt that the range of iPad hardware and software was most
likely to have an immediate positive impact on teaching and learning.
In particular, our evaluation highlighted:
• The reliability of the devices. Proven to be durable.
• The high quality of software to support learning in the App Store.
• In an extensive survey we asked how many of our students already
owned a personal learning device that they could bring in to school. Of
those who did, the proportion of students who owned an Apple iPad
compared to any other tablet device was 4:1.
• Apple TV. This device allows any iPad to be connected quickly to the
classroom board or TV screen. This speeds up the ability of the class to
share work and conduct peer assessment. No other platform could offer
a similar level of performance in a device.
• Training Support. The range of practical training and development
offered to staff will enable them to start modifying their practice and
transforming learning with confidence from the outset.
• Volume app purchasing from the App Store. This recent development will
enable the school to ensure that all students and teachers have access
to the same set of educational tools at a significant discount.
• MDM. Our Lightspeed Mobile Device Management system does
exactly what we need it to. It will give us the ability to operate a safe
and dynamic wireless network for staff and students. It is currently only
available on iOS devices.
• iTunes U. This platform, widely used to give access to online learning
in the university sector is now available to schools. Over the coming
months we will be transferring all of our schemes of work and lesson
materials to this platform. As parents, you will be able to subscribe to
the courses your child is studying and see exactly what they are being
asked to learn.
These factors together add up to a substantial benefit to Hove Park School
and give us a strong platform on which to build our transformation."

There are plenty of value for money and secure alternatives to Lightspeed Mobile Device Management to start with.So that's a lie. There are also other technical inaccuracies there. So all all, the decision to go for Apple was made and then the requirements spec made to fit the answer !

Parents - ask for the paperwork !

You know what you wanna do with that right? You wanna put a bangin' donk on it!

I am sorry, but people are just rushing in without the full facts, anyone who in the last 6 years who has had free school meals get their ipads heavily subsidised, and people with 2 children get 1 half price, and people with 3 children get 1 free. The ipads for other people are still subsidised by a lot. And also the school are letting people make the choice to get one or not, making sure that no one is left out if they don't get one! But to be perfectly honest, £12 a month isn't a lot of money to transform your child's learning, grades and school life.

Pipaluk64 wrote:
I am sorry, but people are just rushing in without the full facts, anyone who in the last 6 years who has had free school meals get their ipads heavily subsidised, and people with 2 children get 1 half price, and people with 3 children get 1 free. The ipads for other people are still subsidised by a lot. And also the school are letting people make the choice to get one or not, making sure that no one is left out if they don't get one! But to be perfectly honest, £12 a month isn't a lot of money to transform your child's learning, grades and school life.

I couldn't agree more.

Mmmmmm Raspberry Pie... Apple... yummy!

Pipaluk64 wrote:
I am sorry, but people are just rushing in without the full facts, anyone who in the last 6 years who has had free school meals get their ipads heavily subsidised, and people with 2 children get 1 half price, and people with 3 children get 1 free. The ipads for other people are still subsidised by a lot. And also the school are letting people make the choice to get one or not, making sure that no one is left out if they don't get one! But to be perfectly honest, £12 a month isn't a lot of money to transform your child's learning, grades and school life.

The facts are actually that the state education system is paid for through taxes - OUR taxes. The idea being that any child can be educated for FREE at the point of delivery. Schools, in particular senior schools, now ask for more and more and more money for various things.

Parents shouldn't have to pay anything for their children to use the equipment at school.

£12 a month might not be a lot for you but it is to many parents who have had pay cuts, redundancy, increases in gas, electricity, fuel, water, food and council tax. Maybe the council won't mind if people divert £12 a month from paying their council tax to buying these toys ?

As we've already heard, parents are being emotionally bullied into getting the iPads. The article doesn't say what happens if you don't buy one - as you seem to have all the facts, what does happen ?

What the school fail to mention in your article is that the children have to sign a pledge form - they have to promise to keep the ipad in the case provided...the case is NOT provided - it is an additional cost to the parents as they have to buy it. They also have to promise to charge the ipad every night at home..AGAIN additional cost to the parents. Oh and they also have to pay an additional contribution for internet use. Needless to say I will not be buying into this scam. I will, however, be worrying that my child may be mugged on tne way to school because they are wearing a Hove Park uniform. Every Hove Park pupil will now be a target for muggers regardless of whether they have an Ipad or not. Has Mr Trimmer thought of that??

Ellie-P wrote:
What the school fail to mention in your article is that the children have to sign a pledge form - they have to promise to keep the ipad in the case provided...the case is NOT provided - it is an additional cost to the parents as they have to buy it. They also have to promise to charge the ipad every night at home..AGAIN additional cost to the parents. Oh and they also have to pay an additional contribution for internet use. Needless to say I will not be buying into this scam. I will, however, be worrying that my child may be mugged on tne way to school because they are wearing a Hove Park uniform. Every Hove Park pupil will now be a target for muggers regardless of whether they have an Ipad or not. Has Mr Trimmer thought of that??

what additional contribution for internet use?

whereisthe...? wrote:
Typical Hove attitude - ignore the homeless and dying, lets spend the last of the cash on idiotic LIBERAL ideas.


Had enough of this city, despite being born here, and too poor to move, unlike these left wing idiots that float in with pathetic ideas from London and the rest of the UK.


Funny how this place has turned to cr*p SINCE you lot moved here.

Ah, that's a beautiful thing. Thanks for that. Could one find a more comically crass opinion posted on the site of a British local paper? Well, sadly, yes you probably could. You see, I thought that people who share your fearful and persecuted views, given enough rope, would have all hanged each other by now. But no, you're still here! Thank you though, I read your post out loud (something you may want to try next time, just after the typed bile but before the 'submit' bit. It's tricky, but you'll get it) to some family and friends, and our evening was greatly improved with liberal (do you see?) bouts of laughter and ill concealed mockery. You are indeed your own one man sketch show. Keep it up, we'll all be watching, and we promise to try and take you seriously, just before we disregard you.. again.

And don't forget the £40 insurance which covers "basic accidental damage & theft from a secure location" oh, and by the way "Unsupervised areas include the school grounds the lunch halls, computer rooms, common rooms, libraries, unlocked classrooms, dressing rooms and hallways". So that'll be multiple ipad purchases per child then - unless of course my (Hove Park) child is the only one on the planet who occasionally loses or breaks things .....

Re my previous post. From what I understand, t
he school are making an additional charge for pupils to have access to sites such as You Tube and Google.

Re my previous post. From what I understand, t
he school are making an additional charge for pupils to have access to sites such as You Tube and Google.

Funny how they failed to mention all the extra costs when putting it in the article, easily closer to £300 minimum. We have been sold Mr Trimmers dream and not been given a proper choice over whether we would like our children to be a part of it or not. How arrogant to expect so many families to just agree and somehow find the money. It is not right. I am struggling to find any other schools that have implemented iPads and expected the parents to pay. If the school and the council think it’s such a good idea then they can pay for it. We have been pressured with only 2 weeks to place our orders and in some cases only 1 week no real time to consider exactly what is going on - which feels just a bit like bullying to me!

If you are not a Hove Park parent/carer, or if you didn't attend one of the five chances to be involved in the hour and a half long presentation evenings, what percentage of the total available facts and information do you think you have? Once you have that number (my unrealistically generous estimate says no more than 25%) how accurate would you say your views are? Without that accuracy how relevant are they? Without that relevance how useful are they? Would you say that your opinions are grounded in first hand relevant fact and experience, or on hearsay 2, 3 perhaps more times removed? Your comments are just the noise of the arrogant who remain ignorant of 75% of the facts, yet persist in attempting to create the whole.

Ellie-P wrote:
Re my previous post. From what I understand, t
he school are making an additional charge for pupils to have access to sites such as You Tube and Google.

I haven't seen anything about that in any of the literature? As far as I can see students are free to connect their iPads to their home network and access the internet freely.

Jostro wrote:
If you are not a Hove Park parent/carer, or if you didn't attend one of the five chances to be involved in the hour and a half long presentation evenings, what percentage of the total available facts and information do you think you have? Once you have that number (my unrealistically generous estimate says no more than 25%) how accurate would you say your views are? Without that accuracy how relevant are they? Without that relevance how useful are they? Would you say that your opinions are grounded in first hand relevant fact and experience, or on hearsay 2, 3 perhaps more times removed? Your comments are just the noise of the arrogant who remain ignorant of 75% of the facts, yet persist in attempting to create the whole.

And once again, someone claiming to have the facts fails to post them. I'll ask again - what happens if parents refuse to buy the iPad ? Or has this key bit of information not been given by the school ?

As you clearly have the facts :

> Has the school carried out a complete comparison exercise and if so, where can the documents for it's criteria and results be found ?

> Did the school carry out a tendering and RFP exercise ? If not why not ? If they did then where can the documents be found ?

> Why does the school insurance not cover the iPads while they are anywhere on site ? If it's down to cost then why do the school expect the parents to cover the extra costs ?

> Why the bully boy tactics to try and get parents to pay for them ?

One of the reasons that I have previously resisted becoming involved in threads such as this is that so many people simply use it as an excuse to get angry. About anything. It is so unnecessary.
The simple facts are these: to involve/enrol our children in the whole iPad adventure it will cost us either £209, £250 or £275 (if I could access the damned site I could quote you properly) plus a £14 system support fee plus insurance/warranty plus a protective case (compulsory).
Few of us will see change from £300, those of us with two children at the school are looking at £450.
If this leap forward in educative technology is inevitable then my taxes should already be paying for it, or at the very least be contributing heavily. But the simplest of facts remains.....if the school, any school are going to ask for a financial commitment like this from families, those families deserve to be consulted at the outset.

As a parent of twins at HPS I can answer some of the questions raised by Fight_back.

I have emailed the school to find out EXACTLY what happens to those that cannot afford the iPad.

In same email asked about criteria used to select iPad and supplier

Insurance that is mandatory if pay monthly only cover theft and damage whilst iPad is in secure location.

Monthly amount over 24 months is more expensive that buying outright as includes an element of 'financing'

It is worth noting other schools, notably the Essa Academy in Bolton gave out iPads free to staff and pupils. I think HPS was originally planning to do the same.

blenky wrote:
As a parent of twins at HPS I can answer some of the questions raised by Fight_back.

I have emailed the school to find out EXACTLY what happens to those that cannot afford the iPad.

In same email asked about criteria used to select iPad and supplier

Insurance that is mandatory if pay monthly only cover theft and damage whilst iPad is in secure location.

Monthly amount over 24 months is more expensive that buying outright as includes an element of 'financing'

It is worth noting other schools, notably the Essa Academy in Bolton gave out iPads free to staff and pupils. I think HPS was originally planning to do the same.

I'm assuming you've not had an answer about parents that can't or won't buy an iPad then ?

Fight_back - No. Only sent email this evening. I sent another email Friday asking why monthly payments have to cost more overall than paying outright and still awaiting answer.

The reason spreading the cost will ultimately cost us more is that Brighton & Hove Council are 'lending' the total amount of the spend and parents will pay them back over two years at a low rate of interest.

Ok so I just managed to find my way to the ordering page on the website and have read some of the small print.....and it seems that there has been more misdirection.
The blanket statement that families with more than one child will be able to buy the second device at a 50% discount is not entirely true. We will be able to buy an iPad Mini at 50% discount, which amounts to £117.
If we want one of the other models we will only be entitled to £117 discount which is not 50%.
Shame, if they could work simple sums out in their heads instead of having to use some swanky device, they might have come up with the right figure. Or does all this technology simply make you deceitful?

I have a child at Blatch and I have heard rumours that they are considering doing the same thing. Needless to say my daughter is excited about this - but then she would be, she's 11! There is no way I am going to take part in this scheme. It will be broken, lost or stolen within a matter of weeks. Also, £12 a month might not be a lot, but it is on top of everything else that I already pay for, food tech, art equipment etc etc. Not forgetting the massive pay cut I had to take when I lost my job last year! And why should I have to pay - it's a state school - I've already paid via my taxes.

bakermum wrote:
The reason spreading the cost will ultimately cost us more is that Brighton & Hove Council are 'lending' the total amount of the spend and parents will pay them back over two years at a low rate of interest.

Interesting thought - who is actually providing the "finance" to the parents ? They will need a consumer credit license to do so and if it's the school parents are signing agreements with then the school are breaking the law.

bakermum wrote:
The reason spreading the cost will ultimately cost us more is that Brighton & Hove Council are 'lending' the total amount of the spend and parents will pay them back over two years at a low rate of interest.

Many other companies provide interest free payments so thats no excuse. However this seems to ignore the fact that HPS is a state funded school which we pay for through taxes. There should be NO cost to parents. I urge you to check out stories about the Essa Academy in Bolton that did a similar thing but handed out iPads to staff and pupils!

bakermum wrote:
Ok so I just managed to find my way to the ordering page on the website and have read some of the small print.....and it seems that there has been more misdirection.
The blanket statement that families with more than one child will be able to buy the second device at a 50% discount is not entirely true. We will be able to buy an iPad Mini at 50% discount, which amounts to £117.
If we want one of the other models we will only be entitled to £117 discount which is not 50%.
Shame, if they could work simple sums out in their heads instead of having to use some swanky device, they might have come up with the right figure. Or does all this technology simply make you deceitful?

Interesting! I have twins with one of with a Statement of Educational Needs who would find a iPad mini too small. So I would not get a true 50% reduction! Shocking! This gets worse and worse.

The issue of cost and risk of theft are obviously real reasons of concern but I am still struggling to understand the true educational value of these Ipad's- or for that matter any tablet device.

They are awful for typing any more than a couple of sentences (although I accept a keyboard can be purchased-at further additional cost).

Most actual work is done on devices that are better designed for it: proper keyboards, good-sized screens, both with the ergonomics to match. (Already successful legal battles starting in the US with tablet-induced injuries… RSI, back and neck problems, etc). Any organisation when using computers must take these risks seriously- what provisions have been made for these tablets?

iPad’s main failings are a battery that the user can’t replace (therefore limiting it life expectancy) and the lack of any form of user memory expansion. This means inevitable use of cloud based storage must be used which has potential security issues. Furthermore Apple is notorious for making future devices incompatible with its previous models to encourage users to continually upgrade.

Throughout my education most of the meaningful work I did was using the Microsoft office suite (Excel, Word & PowerPoint) and I should imagine most teachers & students will inevitably have many of their previous documents in Microsoft Office format which are difficult to transfer to these Apple devices without further costs.

I read this article a few days ago and thought I would write a comment. I was quite surprised to see that so many other people have already written something! I think the iPad idea is insane! I do own one myself but don't consider it anything more than a 'toy'. It has many uses but is not a serious piece of hardware. A 'proper' laptop either Mac or PC is far more useful. What I found unbelievable in the article was the suggestion that students would be able to watch and interact with their teacher as they marked their assignments! Presumably this will be in the evenings and at weekends when the teacher is at home. Aren't teachers allowed a life of their own? Can you imagine how much time this would take! All teachers I speak to now are completely fed up with all the meaningless tasks they have to carry out and the huge amount of paperwork they have to produce to prove they are working hard and that pupils are achieving targets. Most of this comes out of SMT meetings from leaders who have lost the plot! This iPad idea is nuts and unfortunately will probably still happen as people who speak out against it will just be considered unsupportive. It makes me pleased I'm now a retired headteacher but at the same time sad that education has lost it's way.

its a nice toy I love my Ipad but they are expensive not nearly tough enough a military grade case is another £30 minimum.
Your handing control over to apple.
Its an ill thought out expensive gimmick
http://www.dailymail
.co.uk/news/article-
2255546/School-spent
-500-000-giving-pupi
ls-iPads-admits-HALF
-broken.html
So not really suitable for school use

its a nice toy I love my Ipad but they are expensive not nearly tough enough a military grade case is another £30 minimum.
Your handing control over to apple.
Its an ill thought out expensive gimmick
http://www.dailymail
.co.uk/news/article-
2255546/School-spent
-500-000-giving-pupi
ls-iPads-admits-HALF
-broken.html
So not really suitable for school use

voiceofthescoombe wrote:
its a nice toy I love my Ipad but they are expensive not nearly tough enough a military grade case is another £30 minimum.
Your handing control over to apple.
Its an ill thought out expensive gimmick
http://www.dailymail

.co.uk/news/article-

2255546/School-spent

-500-000-giving-pupi

ls-iPads-admits-HALF

-broken.html
So not really suitable for school use

Interesting article. Also note that the school in question gave the pupils the iPad only asking parents to cover the cost of insurance. How come Hove Park has got this so wrong?

I went to the meetings last week and think it is a great idea. The questions I had - why iPads, online/network security, security when carrying the device to school were all answered well.
£14 a month inc insurance - that is the same as buying 2 paperback books a month to read (or a couple of packet of ciggies if that is more your thing). I object more to having to pay £2.20 a day for bus fairs to and fro school, when living within walking distance of another secondary school... Brighton is a hub for media and technology companies, so why not give children an edge when it comes to leaving school and getting into work?

Ms B wrote:
I went to the meetings last week and think it is a great idea. The questions I had - why iPads, online/network security, security when carrying the device to school were all answered well.
£14 a month inc insurance - that is the same as buying 2 paperback books a month to read (or a couple of packet of ciggies if that is more your thing). I object more to having to pay £2.20 a day for bus fairs to and fro school, when living within walking distance of another secondary school... Brighton is a hub for media and technology companies, so why not give children an edge when it comes to leaving school and getting into work?

So I'll ask yet again ( as you went to the meetings ) - what happens if a parent can't / won't buy the iPad ?

moan moan moan.... and of course.. in the real world pen and paper is king! if I got to work at the office and proceeded to shun modern computing and use a pen and paper I'd be sacked.. kids need to be taught how to use technology in the correct manner early on! although i agree that an Ipad with it's lack of flash etc is not my personal choice I can see what they are trying to do.. and if you can't afford £12 a week for your childs education etc then you should have used contraception... rather than bringing another life into the world with no way to pay for it

I'll find out in a few weeks, being in the can't/won't buy the iPad camp myself! The way I figure it, the more parents that decide to hold off buying iPads the more likely the school will have to ensure non-iPad owners are catered for in lessons.

LesleyN wrote:
I'll find out in a few weeks, being in the can't/won't buy the iPad camp myself! The way I figure it, the more parents that decide to hold off buying iPads the more likely the school will have to ensure non-iPad owners are catered for in lessons.

Here, here!

Mr_Tom wrote:
moan moan moan.... and of course.. in the real world pen and paper is king! if I got to work at the office and proceeded to shun modern computing and use a pen and paper I'd be sacked.. kids need to be taught how to use technology in the correct manner early on! although i agree that an Ipad with it's lack of flash etc is not my personal choice I can see what they are trying to do.. and if you can't afford £12 a week for your childs education etc then you should have used contraception... rather than bringing another life into the world with no way to pay for it

How understanding of you !!!! I assume you've never been redundant or had your circumstances change then ?

Mr_Tom wrote:
moan moan moan.... and of course.. in the real world pen and paper is king! if I got to work at the office and proceeded to shun modern computing and use a pen and paper I'd be sacked.. kids need to be taught how to use technology in the correct manner early on! although i agree that an Ipad with it's lack of flash etc is not my personal choice I can see what they are trying to do.. and if you can't afford £12 a week for your childs education etc then you should have used contraception... rather than bringing another life into the world with no way to pay for it

Do you have children at school? We do. Its not just £12 a month (or nearer £20 for us as we have twins) for iPads. There is a constant stream of demands towards the costs at the school for events and equipment. This is one more in a long line. TBH for many it may be the straw that broke the camels back. I have asked the school (among many other things) why HPS is charging parents when other schools have not? Interested in their reply when I get it!

Fight_back - I have emailed the school asking about those that cannot pay and what happens. I have been promised a reply from the schools Business Manager. I will post his response here when I get it.

Mr_Tom wrote:
moan moan moan.... and of course.. in the real world pen and paper is king! if I got to work at the office and proceeded to shun modern computing and use a pen and paper I'd be sacked.. kids need to be taught how to use technology in the correct manner early on! although i agree that an Ipad with it's lack of flash etc is not my personal choice I can see what they are trying to do.. and if you can't afford £12 a week for your childs education etc then you should have used contraception... rather than bringing another life into the world with no way to pay for it

I'd love to see a break down of the specific skills and learning outcomes these iPads are supposed to help develop. I should imagine the same information in textbook form would deliver the same- but at a fraction of the cost.

As mentioned earlier, if the goal is to encourage better understanding of IT and computer skills then a Raspberry Pi costs just £30 and would of much more educational value.

The Ipad is great for using.
But IoS is a closed operating system.
You cant programme it or hack it any thing you want on it has to be accepted by apple corporation.

The heads been seduced by the shiny.

Less reliance on one platform is a much better idea.

If you don't pay then you get given the iPads to use but cant take them home. And this isn't just a last minute decision they have thought through it and have solved most issues the software could create.

I can't believe how many dinosaurs we have living in Brighton and Hove! I am excited that my son is going to be part of such an innovative plan, accessing information he requires to learn, at the touch of a button, attending fast paced, exciting lessons, that are not only educational, but fun! iPads at a reduced rate - I'm biting the school's hand off! well worth every penny - apps, ibooks, itunesu - cheaper and less tiresome than a letts workbook! I have no qualms about him learning to write; this is something I ensured my son could do well before attending a secondary. I am also not concerned about him being mugged - most kids carry expensive phones to and from school and I've not yet seen The Argus report an endemic of them being 'held up' for those on the commute to and from school!
If Hove Park implements the use of these 'learning tools' as part of their 'learning transformation' and it gives my child a greater chance of succeeding at GCSE, a greater ability to learn independently, and he enjoys doing so, I feel it's money well spent.
Well done Hove Park for leading where others will surely, belatedly, follow.

littlemisssunshine wrote:
I can't believe how many dinosaurs we have living in Brighton and Hove! I am excited that my son is going to be part of such an innovative plan, accessing information he requires to learn, at the touch of a button, attending fast paced, exciting lessons, that are not only educational, but fun! iPads at a reduced rate - I'm biting the school's hand off! well worth every penny - apps, ibooks, itunesu - cheaper and less tiresome than a letts workbook! I have no qualms about him learning to write; this is something I ensured my son could do well before attending a secondary. I am also not concerned about him being mugged - most kids carry expensive phones to and from school and I've not yet seen The Argus report an endemic of them being 'held up' for those on the commute to and from school!
If Hove Park implements the use of these 'learning tools' as part of their 'learning transformation' and it gives my child a greater chance of succeeding at GCSE, a greater ability to learn independently, and he enjoys doing so, I feel it's money well spent.
Well done Hove Park for leading where others will surely, belatedly, follow.

And that's where you are wrong. A lot of the people commenting on this are quite the opposite of dinosaurs. Both my partner and I have worked with or in IT for many years. That's why we understand that these aren't 'learning tools'. Sounds like you, any many other parents have been brainwashed!

Tippy Toes - well said. I too work in IT and am very IT literate. That's why I can see beyond the smoke and mirrors and see some real issues and financial concerns.

No response from the Head or the 'Business Manager' yet. I have been told by a Governor that if my child does not have a device, there will be iPads available for use in class. Presumably then homework and all other communications necessary can be conducted via email to our home pc. Ok, we'll do that for now and see how it all pans out.

littlemisssunshine wrote:
I can't believe how many dinosaurs we have living in Brighton and Hove! I am excited that my son is going to be part of such an innovative plan, accessing information he requires to learn, at the touch of a button, attending fast paced, exciting lessons, that are not only educational, but fun! iPads at a reduced rate - I'm biting the school's hand off! well worth every penny - apps, ibooks, itunesu - cheaper and less tiresome than a letts workbook! I have no qualms about him learning to write; this is something I ensured my son could do well before attending a secondary. I am also not concerned about him being mugged - most kids carry expensive phones to and from school and I've not yet seen The Argus report an endemic of them being 'held up' for those on the commute to and from school!
If Hove Park implements the use of these 'learning tools' as part of their 'learning transformation' and it gives my child a greater chance of succeeding at GCSE, a greater ability to learn independently, and he enjoys doing so, I feel it's money well spent.
Well done Hove Park for leading where others will surely, belatedly, follow.

Well done for being so weak minded that you've fallen for the Apple marketing and the schools hype.

I've worked in IT for over 25 years and Apple products are far from being the best on the market - you're paying for a shiny logo.

I'd bet rather a large sum of money that the school are unable to provide parents with the previously mentioned documentation - why ? Because they didn't carry out any detailed and unbiased assessments - they just wanted to look trendy. Unfortunately people like you are so stupid you fall for it.

Fight_Back wrote:

littlemisssunshine wrote:
I can't believe how many dinosaurs we have living in Brighton and Hove! I am excited that my son is going to be part of such an innovative plan, accessing information he requires to learn, at the touch of a button, attending fast paced, exciting lessons, that are not only educational, but fun! iPads at a reduced rate - I'm biting the school's hand off! well worth every penny - apps, ibooks, itunesu - cheaper and less tiresome than a letts workbook! I have no qualms about him learning to write; this is something I ensured my son could do well before attending a secondary. I am also not concerned about him being mugged - most kids carry expensive phones to and from school and I've not yet seen The Argus report an endemic of them being 'held up' for those on the commute to and from school!
If Hove Park implements the use of these 'learning tools' as part of their 'learning transformation' and it gives my child a greater chance of succeeding at GCSE, a greater ability to learn independently, and he enjoys doing so, I feel it's money well spent.
Well done Hove Park for leading where others will surely, belatedly, follow.

Well done for being so weak minded that you've fallen for the Apple marketing and the schools hype.

I've worked in IT for over 25 years and Apple products are far from being the best on the market - you're paying for a shiny logo.

I'd bet rather a large sum of money that the school are unable to provide parents with the previously mentioned documentation - why ? Because they didn't carry out any detailed and unbiased assessments - they just wanted to look trendy. Unfortunately people like you are so stupid you fall for it.

The reason they have gone with iPads is because they are being offered as the cheapest. £100 off the normal price is quite good going in my opinion and the second one is half price and the 3rd one is free. As things go I would say that is quite a good deal. When my son was testing them he said it was great and really useful and as they come with £40 worth of educational apps I would expect them to be.

I'm a HPS parent and at the moment I will not be getting iPads for my two at the school. I really don't see the benefit, think it's a lot of money that I can't afford, and haven't had a response to my queries so at the moment I just can't commit to it. I think my two spend enough time at home on laptops and mobiles I really don't want them hunched over iPads during school either. But then if the response is that they won't be on the iPads for hours on end...what's the point of them then?! I think a better option would be for the school to buy them, keep them as their property and be responsible for them, and issue them in class as and when they're using them for some project or other. To make us pay for them and take on responsibility for them when really, we don't all want them is not on. I wonder how many of us HPS parents aren't going to sign up for them? I, for one, am not.

What percentage of these things will be lost/stolen or damaged?
Given the way most people treat something they've never had to work for I'd put a very conservative estimate of 30 percent.
Any takers for a wager?

whereisthe...? wrote:
Typical Hove attitude - ignore the homeless and dying, lets spend the last of the cash on idiotic LIBERAL ideas.


Had enough of this city, despite being born here, and too poor to move, unlike these left wing idiots that float in with pathetic ideas from London and the rest of the UK.


Funny how this place has turned to cr*p SINCE you lot moved here.

Me too totally agree

I'm convinced its so shiny and new all hail the ischool

So shiny can't resist the shiny.

Black_Hawk wrote:

Fight_Back wrote:

littlemisssunshine wrote:
I can't believe how many dinosaurs we have living in Brighton and Hove! I am excited that my son is going to be part of such an innovative plan, accessing information he requires to learn, at the touch of a button, attending fast paced, exciting lessons, that are not only educational, but fun! iPads at a reduced rate - I'm biting the school's hand off! well worth every penny - apps, ibooks, itunesu - cheaper and less tiresome than a letts workbook! I have no qualms about him learning to write; this is something I ensured my son could do well before attending a secondary. I am also not concerned about him being mugged - most kids carry expensive phones to and from school and I've not yet seen The Argus report an endemic of them being 'held up' for those on the commute to and from school!
If Hove Park implements the use of these 'learning tools' as part of their 'learning transformation' and it gives my child a greater chance of succeeding at GCSE, a greater ability to learn independently, and he enjoys doing so, I feel it's money well spent.
Well done Hove Park for leading where others will surely, belatedly, follow.

Well done for being so weak minded that you've fallen for the Apple marketing and the schools hype.

I've worked in IT for over 25 years and Apple products are far from being the best on the market - you're paying for a shiny logo.

I'd bet rather a large sum of money that the school are unable to provide parents with the previously mentioned documentation - why ? Because they didn't carry out any detailed and unbiased assessments - they just wanted to look trendy. Unfortunately people like you are so stupid you fall for it.

The reason they have gone with iPads is because they are being offered as the cheapest. £100 off the normal price is quite good going in my opinion and the second one is half price and the 3rd one is free. As things go I would say that is quite a good deal. When my son was testing them he said it was great and really useful and as they come with £40 worth of educational apps I would expect them to be.

So they didn't actually go for iPads for any reason other then price ? Thanks for confirming there was no real evaluation process on the technical capabilities of various solutions.

It would be easy to beat the iPad price being offered with an Android tablet brought via bulk buy but you just let the school brainwash you.

Fight_Back wrote:

Black_Hawk wrote:

Fight_Back wrote:

littlemisssunshine wrote:
I can't believe how many dinosaurs we have living in Brighton and Hove! I am excited that my son is going to be part of such an innovative plan, accessing information he requires to learn, at the touch of a button, attending fast paced, exciting lessons, that are not only educational, but fun! iPads at a reduced rate - I'm biting the school's hand off! well worth every penny - apps, ibooks, itunesu - cheaper and less tiresome than a letts workbook! I have no qualms about him learning to write; this is something I ensured my son could do well before attending a secondary. I am also not concerned about him being mugged - most kids carry expensive phones to and from school and I've not yet seen The Argus report an endemic of them being 'held up' for those on the commute to and from school!
If Hove Park implements the use of these 'learning tools' as part of their 'learning transformation' and it gives my child a greater chance of succeeding at GCSE, a greater ability to learn independently, and he enjoys doing so, I feel it's money well spent.
Well done Hove Park for leading where others will surely, belatedly, follow.

Well done for being so weak minded that you've fallen for the Apple marketing and the schools hype.

I've worked in IT for over 25 years and Apple products are far from being the best on the market - you're paying for a shiny logo.

I'd bet rather a large sum of money that the school are unable to provide parents with the previously mentioned documentation - why ? Because they didn't carry out any detailed and unbiased assessments - they just wanted to look trendy. Unfortunately people like you are so stupid you fall for it.

The reason they have gone with iPads is because they are being offered as the cheapest. £100 off the normal price is quite good going in my opinion and the second one is half price and the 3rd one is free. As things go I would say that is quite a good deal. When my son was testing them he said it was great and really useful and as they come with £40 worth of educational apps I would expect them to be.

So they didn't actually go for iPads for any reason other then price ? Thanks for confirming there was no real evaluation process on the technical capabilities of various solutions.

It would be easy to beat the iPad price being offered with an Android tablet brought via bulk buy but you just let the school brainwash you.

Also as there a school they don't need to pay VAT so that would reduce the price on others. Another reason the school is going with iPads is because the school is now sponsored by apple.
As for the "my child will be mugged" all the ipads are tracked and can be blanked if lost or stolen.

Black_Hawk wrote:

Fight_Back wrote:

Black_Hawk wrote:

Fight_Back wrote:

littlemisssunshine wrote:
I can't believe how many dinosaurs we have living in Brighton and Hove! I am excited that my son is going to be part of such an innovative plan, accessing information he requires to learn, at the touch of a button, attending fast paced, exciting lessons, that are not only educational, but fun! iPads at a reduced rate - I'm biting the school's hand off! well worth every penny - apps, ibooks, itunesu - cheaper and less tiresome than a letts workbook! I have no qualms about him learning to write; this is something I ensured my son could do well before attending a secondary. I am also not concerned about him being mugged - most kids carry expensive phones to and from school and I've not yet seen The Argus report an endemic of them being 'held up' for those on the commute to and from school!
If Hove Park implements the use of these 'learning tools' as part of their 'learning transformation' and it gives my child a greater chance of succeeding at GCSE, a greater ability to learn independently, and he enjoys doing so, I feel it's money well spent.
Well done Hove Park for leading where others will surely, belatedly, follow.

Well done for being so weak minded that you've fallen for the Apple marketing and the schools hype.

I've worked in IT for over 25 years and Apple products are far from being the best on the market - you're paying for a shiny logo.

I'd bet rather a large sum of money that the school are unable to provide parents with the previously mentioned documentation - why ? Because they didn't carry out any detailed and unbiased assessments - they just wanted to look trendy. Unfortunately people like you are so stupid you fall for it.

The reason they have gone with iPads is because they are being offered as the cheapest. £100 off the normal price is quite good going in my opinion and the second one is half price and the 3rd one is free. As things go I would say that is quite a good deal. When my son was testing them he said it was great and really useful and as they come with £40 worth of educational apps I would expect them to be.

So they didn't actually go for iPads for any reason other then price ? Thanks for confirming there was no real evaluation process on the technical capabilities of various solutions.

It would be easy to beat the iPad price being offered with an Android tablet brought via bulk buy but you just let the school brainwash you.

Also as there a school they don't need to pay VAT so that would reduce the price on others. Another reason the school is going with iPads is because the school is now sponsored by apple.
As for the "my child will be mugged" all the ipads are tracked and can be blanked if lost or stolen.

BANG !!!!! I rest my case. The school decided on iPads not for any technical reason but because they are sponsored by the makers of said product. Hardly an independent evaluation of available technology then !

So they can be wiped remotely - big deal !!!! The tracking can be turned off very easily and even if they can be blanked the parents would still have to deal with the child being mugged and the hassle of replacing the iPad.

If stolen they will just provide you one free of charge and in the other schools where ipads have been introduced they have had no increase in muggings.
But I do agree with you fight_back that they have just gone with the shiny and not the best.

rolivan wrote:
They had a Burglary at a School in Worthing recently and Guess what was stolen?

some pens and a box of wotsits ?

Fight_Back. If you want to read the pamphlet issued by HPS that lays out what they are doing and why you can download it here http://www.hovepark.
brighton-hove.sch.uk
/announcements/learn
ing-transformation-i
nformation-parent-do
wnloads.

Black_Hawk wrote:
If stolen they will just provide you one free of charge and in the other schools where ipads have been introduced they have had no increase in muggings.
But I do agree with you fight_back that they have just gone with the shiny and not the best.

Are you sure about that? The insurance that comes with the package only cover theft and damage in a secure environment. It doesn't cover loss for instance or anything that happens outside.

Well that is what my son said when they mentioned it in assembly today but that may not be true. I haven't really looked at the insurance yet in much detail.

My daughter goes to this school and I signed up for this project. But the school should not have gone public and plastered this all over the media. Now I am going to be worried sick my 12 yr old will get mugged on her way to the bus stop. Also I have emailed the school my concerns and had no reply. Extra cost when times are hard too.

blenky wrote:

Black_Hawk wrote:
If stolen they will just provide you one free of charge and in the other schools where ipads have been introduced they have had no increase in muggings.
But I do agree with you fight_back that they have just gone with the shiny and not the best.

Are you sure about that? The insurance that comes with the package only cover theft and damage in a secure environment. It doesn't cover loss for instance or anything that happens outside.

As a student in a assembly today, the business head spoke about the introduction of iPads and just like what Black_Hawks son said, supposedly IPad's will be replaced free of charge if lost and everything will be wiped (including iOS). He also went on to talk about other schools that had introduced iPads and the improvements that have occurred there, with no rise of muggings :)

Disgraceful idea Trimmer.
The low life's of this town are rubbing their hands together waiting for launch day. How will you deal with the many scared & psychologically damaged children when they get mugged ? Because it will happen !! HPS should buy them if they NEED to use them !!

cjcukcoo wrote:

blenky wrote:

Black_Hawk wrote:
If stolen they will just provide you one free of charge and in the other schools where ipads have been introduced they have had no increase in muggings.
But I do agree with you fight_back that they have just gone with the shiny and not the best.

Are you sure about that? The insurance that comes with the package only cover theft and damage in a secure environment. It doesn't cover loss for instance or anything that happens outside.

As a student in a assembly today, the business head spoke about the introduction of iPads and just like what Black_Hawks son said, supposedly IPad's will be replaced free of charge if lost and everything will be wiped (including iOS). He also went on to talk about other schools that had introduced iPads and the improvements that have occurred there, with no rise of muggings :)

I think the muggings is a bit of scare mongering as there doesn't seem to be a lot f evidence to support it. What there is evidence is the high number that get damaged. Why are parents charged for damage\loss insurance if they will just hand out a new one if lost. Seems a bit suspect to me.

cjcukcoo wrote:

blenky wrote:

Black_Hawk wrote:
If stolen they will just provide you one free of charge and in the other schools where ipads have been introduced they have had no increase in muggings.
But I do agree with you fight_back that they have just gone with the shiny and not the best.

Are you sure about that? The insurance that comes with the package only cover theft and damage in a secure environment. It doesn't cover loss for instance or anything that happens outside.

As a student in a assembly today, the business head spoke about the introduction of iPads and just like what Black_Hawks son said, supposedly IPad's will be replaced free of charge if lost and everything will be wiped (including iOS). He also went on to talk about other schools that had introduced iPads and the improvements that have occurred there, with no rise of muggings :)

I think the muggings is a bit of scare mongering as there doesn't seem to be a lot f evidence to support it. What there is evidence is the high number that get damaged. Why are parents charged for damage\loss insurance if they will just hand out a new one if lost. Seems a bit suspect to me.

oops double post sorry!

blenky wrote:
Fight_Back. If you want to read the pamphlet issued by HPS that lays out what they are doing and why you can download it here http://www.hovepark.

brighton-hove.sch.uk

/announcements/learn

ing-transformation-i

nformation-parent-do

wnloads.

Thank you. Having read it I note that it doesn't say what will happen if a parent is unable or unwilling to pay for it.

I'm gobsmacked they have the cheek to ask for money even if you supply your own iPad !!!! Internet access is very very cheap - even high bandwidth access so they're still trying to rip parents off.

I also not that the document doesn't tell you the school is sponsored by Apple.

All in all a very deceitful and underhand campaign to get parents to pay for things they have already paid for via tax. The Head should be ashamed of himself - he should be setting an example of honestly to his students not these bullying and untruthful methods.

Blimey the comments! - Just goes to prove how easy it is to be negative about things - not a great skill!

So the HPS kid goes to school with his iPad, the teacher is able to interact with every pupil in the class of 30 and know exactly what they doing are what they made need assistance or encouragement with. The teacher can set Homework, without the usual excuses for not getting it completed - the great benefit from being in a real time environment. Plus, the advantage of all Children having a limitless knowledgebase at their fingertips, throughout their school day, instead of worn out textbooks, an out of date library and chewed pens.

The HPS Children, of course, can just play Angry Birds, in the same way that you are not interested in progressing at work you can bunk off early and go to the pub or have a sick day, but at least all the HPS kids will have the best learning tools available to them, and more importantly the back up of a forward thinking environment, to do well if they can and want to.

And the proof will be next year when year 6 parents will choose their preferred school, will they choose a place where there Children have the latest technology, and modern engaged learning or will they opt for a traditional school with traditional ideas about teaching without any cost in money or your time? I think you will find that HPS will be the kind of School where most parents want their kids to be, and I would be surprised if other schools don't follow suit their courageous lead.

Wake up, our Children are going to living in a more fiercely competitive and technological World than we can imagine - lets try to help them succeed. Mr Trimmer knows this, and I for one applaud him, he is both brave and right.

Lastly, as someone who works in the 'tech' world I can clarify- Apple currently offers the best suite of integrated products for this type of unified learning experience with the best user security, although I am sure that Google, Samsung et al are not far behind - so you can always wait for the less expensive/free option, unfortunately your Childs education can't! If you cant afford it, go to the school and find a way that you can, don't let you Children down.

Wilx11. All well and good. Although the jury is still out on the long term benefits of being sponsored by Apple most comments\concerns are around cost. You are obviously in a position where you can afford this.

Why can other schools doing this hand out iPads where we have to pay? The school has not said. Even subsidised we just cannot afford this. They say no one will be disadvantaged if they can't pay but they don't explain what happens if you can't!

It's all the rage and also a scam and PACA in Portslade is also doing the iPad thing as well, seems like the kickbacks are massive, wait until the products go wrong or the... well let's not dwell on any of that at the moment, Jeremy Vine did a great piece on this subject a few months ago and there is no silver lining, despite what the schools tell you. Can't wait to see if the King's Free School will have iPads for their pupils in September, O wait PACA say they don't want any competition in the area and they won't be out of the new King's site until March, seems like the King's pupils will not be getting any lessons let alone iPads in September. It's all wrong as so many have said here and the brainwashing goes on.

blenky wrote:
Wilx11. All well and good. Although the jury is still out on the long term benefits of being sponsored by Apple most comments\concerns are around cost. You are obviously in a position where you can afford this.

Why can other schools doing this hand out iPads where we have to pay? The school has not said. Even subsidised we just cannot afford this. They say no one will be disadvantaged if they can't pay but they don't explain what happens if you can't!

There is no sponsorship from Apple, all IT manufacturers offer discounts for education. The iPad at HPS are being provided by a 3rd party vendor, and HPS do not pay VAT.

To do this the money has to come from somewhere, other schools have done this by being selective with year groups or by targeting certain groups of pupils. By enabling all pupils to benefit from this type of learning experience HPS is doing the right thing, especially as other parts of the standard education experience are not affected.

I fully understand the short term expense, but I am confident that once your child experiences this type of learning and its benefits you will think your money has been very well spent - Our best , personal and collective, investment is always in our children's future - after all if they don't do well there will nobody to pay for us in our old age, and that will be really, really expensive for us if they can't!

Wix11 - You keep missing the point. Can't afford this and as its a state school shouldn't have to.

This is getting crazy now.
I am currently a year 11 pupil at HPS and thankfully I am not staying at their sixth form.
Every day we get lectured by one of the teachers telling us how great this scheme will be and how much it will benefit our learning but I honestly don't agree with them.
I am constantly surprised by the amount of people in my classes, supposedly top sets, that can't spell, work out how to use an atlas or even a dictionary.
Yes, having these iPads will benefit people by being able to get more information very quickly but this also makes it so much easier for kids to copy and paste off the Internet.
Why should we be learning how to google search everything rather than learning life skills like when my parents were at school?
No work experience.
Catering is just making fairy cakes.
Bullying is a huge problem.
The uniform still isn't sorted.

All these problems yet they want to spend loads of money on new technology?!? The wifi doesn't even work at school.

And yes, we are very worried about the fact we will be targets for muggings. They explained to us about how safe our work would be, how they can wipe the memory of the iPads if it gets stolen or lost but what about the person who has to actually go through the ordeal? So it's more important to be able to keep homework than keep safe?
Can I just remind you of the fact that people broke into the school only a few years ago just for a broken drum kit?

Yet again, well done Mr Trimmer, waste of time, effort and money.

blenky wrote:
Fight_back - No. Only sent email this evening. I sent another email Friday asking why monthly payments have to cost more overall than paying outright and still awaiting answer.

I sent them an email regarding another issue last June. Apart from one office worker I saw while at school telling me they'd seen the email and would sort something out, I still haven't had a reply.
So don't expect much in a way of a quick and straight forward answer from them.

I really hate being lectured about these things and how wonderful they are. Trimmer does not teach so what would he know about iPads in class?? All he does is try to get the press to write about how great they all are. Dont waste your money on bling iPad especially if they have to give out one each day anyway.

Fight_Back - In response to my emails to the school on Monday I have a meeting with the Business Manager.

blenky wrote:
Fight_Back - In response to my emails to the school on Monday I have a meeting with the Business Manager.

Look forward to hearing the results. I still find it concerning that none of the documentation, nor anyone who has posted here in support of the idea, has explained what happens if parents can't or won't buy the iPad. It really is a VERY simple question.

Fight_Back wrote:
These heads live on a different planet !!!! They may get very nice salaries but not everyone does.

They already ask for too much money from parents for art materials, food tech ingredients, money for trips, school funds ( the biggest con of them all !! ) and branded uniforms. Now Hove Park expects parents to payout for iPads.

I see Mr Trimmer doesn't say what happens if a parent refuses to pay for an iPad ?

Nor does he seem to acknowledge that we already pay for our state schools through our taxes. There should be no further charges on top of those taxes for our children to attend state school.

If Mr Trimmer wants the school to use iPads fine but the school should pay for all of them. I bet the teachers don't have to pay for theirs !!!!

Besides, how does he justify using a tablet that is over-priced because of the name Apple rather than far cheaper and more powerful alternatives ? Con, con, con and hopefully the parents will refuse to pay.

I am currently a year 11 student at Hove Park School and I think that everyone is taking this too seriously.Mr Trimmer is doing what's best for the students at the school,he is just trying to help our whole school succeed and obviously people are going to have there own opinions on the iPads and that is fair enough but people shouldn't be judging Mr Trimmer after he came to our school when it wasn't the best school and he has now made us one of the most improved schools in the country, so I think he knows what he is doing.Everyone just needs to let him do what he is doing because I am sure that you will see an improvement to grades, the lessons will be better because teachers will be able to interact more with the students and e lessons will be, overall, more fun and enjoyable. If the parents refuse to pay then so be it, it's there choice but I think you should give the iPads a chance because I think they're a good idea!:D

Fight_Back wrote:
These heads live on a different planet !!!! They may get very nice salaries but not everyone does.

They already ask for too much money from parents for art materials, food tech ingredients, money for trips, school funds ( the biggest con of them all !! ) and branded uniforms. Now Hove Park expects parents to payout for iPads.

I see Mr Trimmer doesn't say what happens if a parent refuses to pay for an iPad ?

Nor does he seem to acknowledge that we already pay for our state schools through our taxes. There should be no further charges on top of those taxes for our children to attend state school.

If Mr Trimmer wants the school to use iPads fine but the school should pay for all of them. I bet the teachers don't have to pay for theirs !!!!

Besides, how does he justify using a tablet that is over-priced because of the name Apple rather than far cheaper and more powerful alternatives ? Con, con, con and hopefully the parents will refuse to pay.

I am currently a year 11 student at Hove Park School and I think that everyone is taking this too seriously.Mr Trimmer is doing what's best for the students at the school,he is just trying to help our whole school succeed and obviously people are going to have there own opinions on the iPads and that is fair enough but people shouldn't be judging Mr Trimmer after he came to our school when it wasn't the best school and he has now made us one of the most improved schools in the country, so I think he knows what he is doing.Everyone just needs to let him do what he is doing because I am sure that you will see an improvement to grades, the lessons will be better because teachers will be able to interact more with the students and e lessons will be, overall, more fun and enjoyable. If the parents refuse to pay then so be it, it's there choice but I think you should give the iPads a chance because I think they're a good idea!:D

I understand all of your concerns with the latest proposal. I am acctually a year 10 student at HPS. I love the school, I chose to go to it before it was a good school. I understand that the costs are big issues and that not everyone wants to fork out money for something that (I admit) is a little bit of a waste of money. However I can see the massive benefits. For pupils that are exceeding they can do other work realated things whilst people are catching up. For underperforming students the teacher can point out where they're going wrong and give them help and moral support. I agree that we shouldn't replace old fashioned pen and paper for 'shiny new toys' but I can see the benefit. And yes some pupils in our school are idiots and don't know how to solve basic life problems but some people are like that. Some people refuse to learn no matter how much it would help them in the future. I'm not a perfect student but I know how bored I get when I've finished the work and other people have to catch up it's annoying. I've (I, not my parents) brought loads of revision books which I take to school everyday so that I don't get bored in lessons. If I didn't have to lug that about all day everyday I would be grateful. The people who are worried about muggings should buy your children coats to go over the uniform if you're really that worried. And to all of the parents that don't want to buy ipads. some are available that children will be able to use but there is (of course) a limited supply. Many people are against this. Many people are for this. Most of my friends are excited about this. But how many of you own your own pc, tablet, ipod, phone. I would take an educated guess in saying pretty much all of you. I'm sorry to all parents who think this is an expense they could do without. But I've been to all of the meetings all of the assemblys, everything! And I'm tired of hearing everyone **** about how unfair this all is. Technology moves quickly and you've got to move with it to stay in the game. I took out a whole evening (that I could be using to revise for my GCSE's) (and no I don't want a medal) to read all of your comments and I understand them all quite perfectly. It's worrying yes. But there will be benefits. Sorry to anyone who doesn't agree. But I like my school. We do agree that Mr Trimmer isn't very down to Earth but he has done a great thing for our school. Since he's come, it has been a better place and I'm sure he doesn't want to make you feel emotionally blackmailed or bullied as many of you keep saying. But please see it from the pupils point of view, the pupil that is exceeding, who get's bored so gets into trouble. Ipads make it more interactive and fun. I'm almost certain it will help. For the first week it might take attention away from the teacher (only a bad teacher who can't control a class), but once the WOW factor has been taken away I believe it will be beneficial. Sorry to rant.

Madska_Harris wrote:
I understand all of your concerns with the latest proposal. I am acctually a year 10 student at HPS. I love the school, I chose to go to it before it was a good school. I understand that the costs are big issues and that not everyone wants to fork out money for something that (I admit) is a little bit of a waste of money. However I can see the massive benefits. For pupils that are exceeding they can do other work realated things whilst people are catching up. For underperforming students the teacher can point out where they're going wrong and give them help and moral support. I agree that we shouldn't replace old fashioned pen and paper for 'shiny new toys' but I can see the benefit. And yes some pupils in our school are idiots and don't know how to solve basic life problems but some people are like that. Some people refuse to learn no matter how much it would help them in the future. I'm not a perfect student but I know how bored I get when I've finished the work and other people have to catch up it's annoying. I've (I, not my parents) brought loads of revision books which I take to school everyday so that I don't get bored in lessons. If I didn't have to lug that about all day everyday I would be grateful. The people who are worried about muggings should buy your children coats to go over the uniform if you're really that worried. And to all of the parents that don't want to buy ipads. some are available that children will be able to use but there is (of course) a limited supply. Many people are against this. Many people are for this. Most of my friends are excited about this. But how many of you own your own pc, tablet, ipod, phone. I would take an educated guess in saying pretty much all of you. I'm sorry to all parents who think this is an expense they could do without. But I've been to all of the meetings all of the assemblys, everything! And I'm tired of hearing everyone **** about how unfair this all is. Technology moves quickly and you've got to move with it to stay in the game. I took out a whole evening (that I could be using to revise for my GCSE's) (and no I don't want a medal) to read all of your comments and I understand them all quite perfectly. It's worrying yes. But there will be benefits. Sorry to anyone who doesn't agree. But I like my school. We do agree that Mr Trimmer isn't very down to Earth but he has done a great thing for our school. Since he's come, it has been a better place and I'm sure he doesn't want to make you feel emotionally blackmailed or bullied as many of you keep saying. But please see it from the pupils point of view, the pupil that is exceeding, who get's bored so gets into trouble. Ipads make it more interactive and fun. I'm almost certain it will help. For the first week it might take attention away from the teacher (only a bad teacher who can't control a class), but once the WOW factor has been taken away I believe it will be beneficial. Sorry to rant.

Very good opinion! Because I think that people don't know what our school is like unless they're actually there. Mr Trimmer has done very beneficial things towards our school, such as: uniform: he has made our school look very professional and people feel a part of something when they wear it, and everyone who is moaning that all he wants is money, well actually he and the school try and help families that can't afford certain things...he said that all of the year 11's this year (because it was the first year of the uniform) that we didn't have to buy the blazers and shirt and ties because he knows that some parents would not be able to afford it and he is definitely not saying that everyone will be able to afford it. He is actually trying to help families, if anyone went to the ipad evenings you would know that he said that there are certain things the school can do for the iPads, not saying I agree with all of those choices but I do believe that the iPads will be beneficial to our school and I can happily say that I AM proud to be a part of Hove Park School and I can also say with pleasure that I amhappy that I am going to be a part of our sixth form. Well done MrTrimmer!

A very simple ICT question. How long before iPads are out dated and replaced by a new tablet and parents have to upgrade at more cost?
At the present rapid speed of ICT development 12/15 months. ICT is essential for good education, but does not come before good teaching and learning in a creative environment. Students want teachers who they respect and who can teach them to be active learners. An iPad is as exciting to students today as a text book with colour photos was to me. iPads are a short term answer to an ongoing problem of having a good state education for all students.

Adurboy wrote:
A very simple ICT question. How long before iPads are out dated and replaced by a new tablet and parents have to upgrade at more cost?
At the present rapid speed of ICT development 12/15 months. ICT is essential for good education, but does not come before good teaching and learning in a creative environment. Students want teachers who they respect and who can teach them to be active learners. An iPad is as exciting to students today as a text book with colour photos was to me. iPads are a short term answer to an ongoing problem of having a good state education for all students.

That's like saying at school every year we need to get new computers because new computers come out all the time so I would like to answer that by saying that when a new ipad comes out the school won't get that straight away because they will get things like software updates etc. If you work in a job that involves ICT are your computers replaced every time a new one comes out?

P.S. Has anyone thought about printing costs? At some stage some of the work will have to be printed and cartridges are one of the most expensive items to buy!!!!!!

Adurboy wrote:
P.S. Has anyone thought about printing costs? At some stage some of the work will have to be printed and cartridges are one of the most expensive items to buy!!!!!!

I am sure Mr Trimmer has thought thoroughly about the costs of everything to make sure it will be good but he is carrying this out because he knows it will be beneficial. Don't people want there child to be in a school that has improved and is now at such a high standard that we can get ipads and children are being TRUSTED to walk around with iPads and use them in lessons, why are people only thinking about the negatives when there are so many benefits

Wilx11 has some theories on this – let’s review them:

“Blimey the comments! - Just goes to prove how easy it is to be negative about things - not a great skill!”
I don’t think anyone here claimed ‘being negative’ was a great skill, simply that they had a negative opinion of this proposed initiative. Most people criticising the scheme argued it clearly and in many cases citing significant experience with actual IT.

“So the HPS kid goes to school with his iPad, the teacher is able to interact with every pupil in the class of 30 and know exactly what they doing are what they made need assistance or encouragement with.”
So kind of like any other class in an average school with a decent teacher? How does the iPad involvement make any actual difference?

“The teacher can set Homework, without the usual excuses for not getting it completed - the great benefit from being in a real time environment.”
It’s very hard to know what you even mean by this sentence. A ‘real time environment’ sounds sort of cool and exciting, like ‘Zero Dark Thirty’ but basically means ‘as stuff is actually happening’. So do you mean the teacher will actually be monitoring every student out of hours to check they are actually doing their homework at that exact moment (‘in a real time environment’)? Or do you mean something else? Because as written it doesn’t really make any sense.
And what are the ‘usual excuses’ for not completing homework? Not having enough time? Felt ill? How would having an iPad change these?
Also have you actually tried typing on an iPad? It simply isn’t as efficient as a computer with a keyboard.

“Plus, the advantage of all Children having a limitless knowledgebase at their fingertips, throughout their school day, instead of worn out textbooks, an out of date library and chewed pens.”
Absolutely – much better the kids are surfing the internet randomly than focusing on the actual curriculum as detailed in the stupid worn out textbooks.
And why is the library ‘out of date’? Why are the pens chewed? It sounds like in your head all children go to school in the evil version of the world in the Silent Hill games.

“The HPS Children, of course, can just play Angry Birds, in the same way that you are not interested in progressing at work you can bunk off early and go to the pub or have a sick day, but at least all the HPS kids will have the best learning tools available to them,”
Well the ‘best learning tool’ as decided by a school sponsored by Apple.
I would have thought the best learning tool would be a book detailing the actual subject being studied rather than something on which you can surf the internet and play Angry Birds.
Or maybe even (and I realise this is a crazy idea) a simple laptop which is cheaper than an iPad, does everything (and more) that an iPad can do, has more memory, can install any program and has an actual keyboard on which you can type.

“and more importantly the back up of a forward thinking environment, to do well if they can and want to. “
I have worked in a business environment for 20 years. And I still have little patience for meaningless phrases like ‘a forward thinking environment’. Having an iPad does not generate a ‘forward thinking environment’ – it gives you a device on which you can easily surf the internet and watch videos and type inefficiently.

“And the proof will be next year when year 6 parents will choose their preferred school, will they choose a place where there Children have the latest technology, and modern engaged learning or will they opt for a traditional school with traditional ideas about teaching without any cost in money or your time?”
It depends on how little the parents actually understand technology and children’s education. A lot of educational fads have come and gone, and it’s amazing how the ‘traditional’ approach to teaching has proven rather robust and capable of producing some staggeringly talented people.

“I think you will find that HPS will be the kind of School where most parents want their kids to be, and I would be surprised if other schools don't follow suit their courageous lead.”
It’s certainly courageous for a school to appear to be ditching actual textbooks for media consumption devices designed for surfing the internet, playing touchscreen games and watching videos. Which are, I can’t stress this enough, really bad for typing on.

“Wake up,”
It always adds an impressive credibility to an internet comment when the poster adds the words ‘Wake up’ to their response. It makes you realise that they are coming from a position, not of mere emotional subjectivity, but from cold hard evidenced logic.

“our Children are going to living in a more fiercely competitive and technological World than we can imagine - lets try to help them succeed.”
How? By giving them devices intended (actually specifically designed) to avoid them having to actually understand anything about the actual technology or the underlying software and hardware? At least PCs let you understand the concept of file storage and folder structure. What does an iPad actually teach you about technology? That pressing that pretty icon makes that game launch? Wow, that should certainly help develop the next Alan Turing.

“Mr Trimmer knows this, and I for one applaud him, he is both brave and right.”
You may want to look up the definitions of the words ‘brave’ and ‘right’. I suspect they do not mean what you think they mean.

“Lastly, as someone who works in the 'tech' world I can clarify- Apple currently offers the best suite of integrated products for this type of unified learning experience with the best user security,”
Hmm, that must be why most corporations absolutely do not use Apple for this type of thing. And I am really curious as to what your specific role in the ‘tech’ world is. Because that sounds just the tiniest bit vague.

“ although I am sure that Google, Samsung et al are not far behind - so you can always wait for the less expensive/free option, unfortunately your Childs education can't! If you cant afford it, go to the school and find a way that you can, don't let you Children down.”
I still can’t see a single thing in that entire post that explains why an iPad is in any way a benefit to school learning. Other than ‘Buy an iPad for no particular reason or your children will grow up stupid!’
Steve jobs must be looking down and smiling.

Wilx11 - cracking post. Keep em coming!

Are there any hard facts e.g. results that justify the massive financial investment in these devices and the infrastructure to support? Yes I've read a lot about 'interactivity' and 'engagement' by staff and pupils but where is proof that this is sustainable and driving up results?

Ashles wrote:
Wilx11 has some theories on this – let’s review them:

“Blimey the comments! - Just goes to prove how easy it is to be negative about things - not a great skill!”
I don’t think anyone here claimed ‘being negative’ was a great skill, simply that they had a negative opinion of this proposed initiative. Most people criticising the scheme argued it clearly and in many cases citing significant experience with actual IT.

“So the HPS kid goes to school with his iPad, the teacher is able to interact with every pupil in the class of 30 and know exactly what they doing are what they made need assistance or encouragement with.”
So kind of like any other class in an average school with a decent teacher? How does the iPad involvement make any actual difference?

“The teacher can set Homework, without the usual excuses for not getting it completed - the great benefit from being in a real time environment.”
It’s very hard to know what you even mean by this sentence. A ‘real time environment’ sounds sort of cool and exciting, like ‘Zero Dark Thirty’ but basically means ‘as stuff is actually happening’. So do you mean the teacher will actually be monitoring every student out of hours to check they are actually doing their homework at that exact moment (‘in a real time environment’)? Or do you mean something else? Because as written it doesn’t really make any sense.
And what are the ‘usual excuses’ for not completing homework? Not having enough time? Felt ill? How would having an iPad change these?
Also have you actually tried typing on an iPad? It simply isn’t as efficient as a computer with a keyboard.

“Plus, the advantage of all Children having a limitless knowledgebase at their fingertips, throughout their school day, instead of worn out textbooks, an out of date library and chewed pens.”
Absolutely – much better the kids are surfing the internet randomly than focusing on the actual curriculum as detailed in the stupid worn out textbooks.
And why is the library ‘out of date’? Why are the pens chewed? It sounds like in your head all children go to school in the evil version of the world in the Silent Hill games.

“The HPS Children, of course, can just play Angry Birds, in the same way that you are not interested in progressing at work you can bunk off early and go to the pub or have a sick day, but at least all the HPS kids will have the best learning tools available to them,”
Well the ‘best learning tool’ as decided by a school sponsored by Apple.
I would have thought the best learning tool would be a book detailing the actual subject being studied rather than something on which you can surf the internet and play Angry Birds.
Or maybe even (and I realise this is a crazy idea) a simple laptop which is cheaper than an iPad, does everything (and more) that an iPad can do, has more memory, can install any program and has an actual keyboard on which you can type.

“and more importantly the back up of a forward thinking environment, to do well if they can and want to. “
I have worked in a business environment for 20 years. And I still have little patience for meaningless phrases like ‘a forward thinking environment’. Having an iPad does not generate a ‘forward thinking environment’ – it gives you a device on which you can easily surf the internet and watch videos and type inefficiently.

“And the proof will be next year when year 6 parents will choose their preferred school, will they choose a place where there Children have the latest technology, and modern engaged learning or will they opt for a traditional school with traditional ideas about teaching without any cost in money or your time?”
It depends on how little the parents actually understand technology and children’s education. A lot of educational fads have come and gone, and it’s amazing how the ‘traditional’ approach to teaching has proven rather robust and capable of producing some staggeringly talented people.

“I think you will find that HPS will be the kind of School where most parents want their kids to be, and I would be surprised if other schools don't follow suit their courageous lead.”
It’s certainly courageous for a school to appear to be ditching actual textbooks for media consumption devices designed for surfing the internet, playing touchscreen games and watching videos. Which are, I can’t stress this enough, really bad for typing on.

“Wake up,”
It always adds an impressive credibility to an internet comment when the poster adds the words ‘Wake up’ to their response. It makes you realise that they are coming from a position, not of mere emotional subjectivity, but from cold hard evidenced logic.

“our Children are going to living in a more fiercely competitive and technological World than we can imagine - lets try to help them succeed.”
How? By giving them devices intended (actually specifically designed) to avoid them having to actually understand anything about the actual technology or the underlying software and hardware? At least PCs let you understand the concept of file storage and folder structure. What does an iPad actually teach you about technology? That pressing that pretty icon makes that game launch? Wow, that should certainly help develop the next Alan Turing.

“Mr Trimmer knows this, and I for one applaud him, he is both brave and right.”
You may want to look up the definitions of the words ‘brave’ and ‘right’. I suspect they do not mean what you think they mean.

“Lastly, as someone who works in the 'tech' world I can clarify- Apple currently offers the best suite of integrated products for this type of unified learning experience with the best user security,”
Hmm, that must be why most corporations absolutely do not use Apple for this type of thing. And I am really curious as to what your specific role in the ‘tech’ world is. Because that sounds just the tiniest bit vague.

“ although I am sure that Google, Samsung et al are not far behind - so you can always wait for the less expensive/free option, unfortunately your Childs education can't! If you cant afford it, go to the school and find a way that you can, don't let you Children down.”
I still can’t see a single thing in that entire post that explains why an iPad is in any way a benefit to school learning. Other than ‘Buy an iPad for no particular reason or your children will grow up stupid!’
Steve jobs must be looking down and smiling.

I like this post, finally there are some positive opinions! Think about it though there will be no excuses for children not being able to do homework because it will be on there ipad, children won't have excuses that they forgot there book because, in some lessons, all they will need is iPads, I think this is a step in the right direction and I think it's going to make people in our school do better because they will feel more pride towards our school. I mean it is some privilege to be able to be the only school with an ipad system. Think about what our school was like 2 years ago and look at it now. I think Mr Trimmer and all the other teachers at our school know exactly what they're doing.

I am totally disgusted with the school at the way this program has been introduced. I wonder how many teacher's have free ipads and Apple laptops? I bet the headmaster has an apple laptop! I have pasted below the direct feedback I sent to the school. Much to my daughter's dismay, I am boycotting the program!!

1). I bought my daughter a laptop to help with school work and most recently a kindle tablet. I find it incredible that I am now being expected to purchase another tablet. Like many parents, I recently bought the tablet as a Christmas present and I chose the Kindle over an ipad mini. Why wasn't this proposal communicated before Christmas? Many people purchased tablets as Christmas presents and this may have influenced the purchase. I am now faced with buying another tablet which we don't want so that my daughter is on par with other students.



2). We have a family ipad 1 and I have been informed that my daughter cannot use this as part of this program. Is that true? If so, please explain why.



3). The school should not be promoting one specific technology vendor. I see the advantages in using this technology at school (albeit mostly on the teaching side, not student), but this can be done using a solution which is technology agnostic. Tying students to a specific vendor limits choice, creates a monopoly and limits students experiences to just that one vendor.



4). The school is using peer pressure to drive this initiative forward. Of course the students want a new tablet and the school is using this desire channelled through the children to put pressure on parents to purchase tablets when the economic climate is making it difficult for many parents to run a household. This borders on irresponsible behaviour. It has certainly caused a tension in our household.



5). The ipad is not necessarily the tablet of choice in commerce. Many financial institutions are moving away from Apple in preference of more secure options such as Windows 8 tablets. By limiting this program to Apple ipads, you are potentially impacting employment opportunities for the students.



6). My daughter has already had a coat and skirt stolen from her locker. I am fearful that the presence of more expensive items such as a tablet, would lead to the increase of theft. I am aware of the software used to track the ipads and restrict the non-authorised use of them, but this software can be hacked and unlocked in very much the same way that iphones can be unlocked.



7). If all 1600 students purchase the ipads, Apple will realise additional revenues of £480k. I hope some of the profit from these sales will be ploughed back into the school? Was the contract put out to tender to allow other technology vendors to bid for the contract?



8). The student ipad survey you mention in the literature was not sent home. This would have given the parents an early warning that this scheme was being planned.



9). The video shows the use of the tablets for feedback on student's work. This will now change the feedback process from a 2 way interactive process to 1 way. This is not a good move forward. It will negatively impact the students learning as opposed to benefiting them. I support anything which allows parents to help further with their children's learning but shifting the responsibility to explaining the teacher's feedback from the teacher to the parent is not appropriate. And I don't see how the use of tablets speeds up the marking and return of homework. Can someone explain this to me?



10). I would really appreciate being given the findings of similar schemes in other schools. Is this available? Presumably you reviewed this material before suggesting this program? The suggestion is that the use of tablets will improve student's learning and hence improve grades. If that is the case, are you planning to re-forecast all target grades? I will eagerly look forward to seeing the overall school grade performance over the next 12-18 months.

I'd be really interested to know if the teachers have to purchase their own ipads.I do hope so. Excuse me for being cynical about any enthusiasm from head, staff and students if none of them are actually putting their own hands in their pockets. Even better, putting their hands in mine.

The sad thing is this isalready a passing fad this years Bett show was all about. Bring Your Own Device.
Rather than standard overpriced soon to be outdated model.

I've been in IT sales for 16 years, currently work for a mobile telco selling to Banks in the City, and sell a lot of tablets. I've also got a teen at Blatch, with another one due to start in a few years time.

There's a lot of hyperbole and downright rubbish being thrown around here, along with some valid points.

The Church Of The Shining Fruit really has done a very good job in selling the dream to the teaching community.

So a hundred and whatever quid per kid, just so they can access a limited number of apps on a 7" screen, with very low typing ability, and high theft risk? Great work HPS team; talk about invoking the old IT adage of "getting the requirement to fit the solution"

An eminently more sensible plan - if you must get people to buy things - would have been a Chromebook. Aside from having an actual keyboard, far more computing power than an iPad, and not actually having anything software/data/stuff on it to nick (it is literally just a box of bits), I suspect Google would have given you several thousand of the things for free. Furthermore, it doesn't matter if someone forgets/breaks/loses theirs; as a Cloud OS just pick up a spare one and crack on where you left off.

The even more absurd thing about this is that as an education facility, the IT at HPS will be a mixture of Windows and Linux. So adding a third OS to the mix will be doing what to keep IT support costs down?

Lastly, there is this bizarre idea in some of the IT backwaters (public sector, basically) that a tablet is a tool of productivity - it isn't. Unless you count very specific limited-application cases, a tablet is a consumption device; you watch, you listen, you browse, you read, you write a few emails. Nobody in their right mind would write a homework essay on a touchscreen keyboard. Even Apple pitch the iPad as a consumption device.

So, what HPS seems to have done here is spent a load of everyone else's money, made every HPS kid a mugging target (MDM or not, the hardware still has a value), and delivered the square root of nothing.

If BMS really wanted to teach IT and consumerisation to kids they say; "Here's a citrix licence, the rest is up to you - go off and learn how to make yourself online (it really is very simple). Bonus marks awarded for the least amount of money spent, if you turn up with a Linux machine you built yourself. Automatic A+ Distinction if you build a Raspberry Pi with PixelQi screen."

Handing things pre-built to kids on a plate doesn't teach and doesn't achieve.

Oop, forgot the de facto politi-rant.

Anything Arch-Numpty Kitcat, Lord Commander of Missing The Point, and Driver Of The Holy Bandwagon, praises as "exciting" is automatically the worst idea possible and we should all run a mile.

SussexLifeform wrote:
I've been in IT sales for 16 years, currently work for a mobile telco selling to Banks in the City, and sell a lot of tablets. I've also got a teen at Blatch, with another one due to start in a few years time.

There's a lot of hyperbole and downright rubbish being thrown around here, along with some valid points.

The Church Of The Shining Fruit really has done a very good job in selling the dream to the teaching community.

So a hundred and whatever quid per kid, just so they can access a limited number of apps on a 7" screen, with very low typing ability, and high theft risk? Great work HPS team; talk about invoking the old IT adage of "getting the requirement to fit the solution"

An eminently more sensible plan - if you must get people to buy things - would have been a Chromebook. Aside from having an actual keyboard, far more computing power than an iPad, and not actually having anything software/data/stuff on it to nick (it is literally just a box of bits), I suspect Google would have given you several thousand of the things for free. Furthermore, it doesn't matter if someone forgets/breaks/loses theirs; as a Cloud OS just pick up a spare one and crack on where you left off.

The even more absurd thing about this is that as an education facility, the IT at HPS will be a mixture of Windows and Linux. So adding a third OS to the mix will be doing what to keep IT support costs down?

Lastly, there is this bizarre idea in some of the IT backwaters (public sector, basically) that a tablet is a tool of productivity - it isn't. Unless you count very specific limited-application cases, a tablet is a consumption device; you watch, you listen, you browse, you read, you write a few emails. Nobody in their right mind would write a homework essay on a touchscreen keyboard. Even Apple pitch the iPad as a consumption device.

So, what HPS seems to have done here is spent a load of everyone else's money, made every HPS kid a mugging target (MDM or not, the hardware still has a value), and delivered the square root of nothing.

If BMS really wanted to teach IT and consumerisation to kids they say; "Here's a citrix licence, the rest is up to you - go off and learn how to make yourself online (it really is very simple). Bonus marks awarded for the least amount of money spent, if you turn up with a Linux machine you built yourself. Automatic A+ Distinction if you build a Raspberry Pi with PixelQi screen."

Handing things pre-built to kids on a plate doesn't teach and doesn't achieve.

Spot on!

As a parent with two children at HPS I can say that this last year hasn't been perfect for either of my children.
The school still needs to get on top of the daily bullying and constant distraction in class by a small percentage of the pupils.
Take note Mr Trimmer one of my children who all his teachers say is well mannered and gets on with what is expected of him has now given up reporting the nearly daily bullying, he now just puts up with it he says telling staff and me reporting it to your staff only makes things worst, the children are spoken too but suffer no consequences for their actions.

Introducing i pads i think is a good idea for my children, my youngest son can t write for long due to not being able to hold a pen for any length of time comfortably however he can type on our family iPad very fast. So I hope and believe his school work will benefit although a ordinary laptop would have done the same job. He does already seem to produce better work on the laptop at home, then written in class.
I can understand why not all parents would agree.
I am slightly worried about the cost however for less than £1 a day for the next two years for my two i think its worth the investment. I do have concerns and from experience I know there unlikely to last the whole of my youngest son s school life so we could be faced with a on going payment for at least the next 4/5 years.
I think it would be a good idea if the school produced a Q & A sheet for parents for all those questions that parents have, although there never going to say that every child that doesn't have their own we be lent one as we would all be doing it that way wouldn't we !!!!!

Mr Trimmer really landed himself in the sh!t with that idea.

Loads of the teachers are dead against them as well - just not saying so openly. Fact.

mandi26 wrote:
As a parent with two children at HPS I can say that this last year hasn't been perfect for either of my children.
The school still needs to get on top of the daily bullying and constant distraction in class by a small percentage of the pupils.
Take note Mr Trimmer one of my children who all his teachers say is well mannered and gets on with what is expected of him has now given up reporting the nearly daily bullying, he now just puts up with it he says telling staff and me reporting it to your staff only makes things worst, the children are spoken too but suffer no consequences for their actions.

Introducing i pads i think is a good idea for my children, my youngest son can t write for long due to not being able to hold a pen for any length of time comfortably however he can type on our family iPad very fast. So I hope and believe his school work will benefit although a ordinary laptop would have done the same job. He does already seem to produce better work on the laptop at home, then written in class.
I can understand why not all parents would agree.
I am slightly worried about the cost however for less than £1 a day for the next two years for my two i think its worth the investment. I do have concerns and from experience I know there unlikely to last the whole of my youngest son s school life so we could be faced with a on going payment for at least the next 4/5 years.
I think it would be a good idea if the school produced a Q & A sheet for parents for all those questions that parents have, although there never going to say that every child that doesn't have their own we be lent one as we would all be doing it that way wouldn't we !!!!!

I have been at hovepark for nearly 5 years now and I would like to say that I have only ever experienced bullying once and that was when mr trimmer wasn't there but I can happily say now that if he knows that bullying is occurring himself and the school will try to resolve the issue. At upper school bullying rarely occurs I am not entirely sure about lower because I no longer go there.

"The school still needs to get on top of the daily bullying and constant distraction in class by a small percentage of the pupils. "
Definition of bullying "... includes destruction of property, theft of valued possessions, destruction of another's work..."
Those iPads are going to make a great target .

LesleyN wrote:
"The school still needs to get on top of the daily bullying and constant distraction in class by a small percentage of the pupils. "
Definition of bullying "... includes destruction of property, theft of valued possessions, destruction of another's work..."
Those iPads are going to make a great target .

I think it will be ok but obviously there will be some hurdles with the new ipad system

SussexLifeform wrote:
I've been in IT sales for 16 years, currently work for a mobile telco selling to Banks in the City, and sell a lot of tablets. I've also got a teen at Blatch, with another one due to start in a few years time.

There's a lot of hyperbole and downright rubbish being thrown around here, along with some valid points.

The Church Of The Shining Fruit really has done a very good job in selling the dream to the teaching community.

So a hundred and whatever quid per kid, just so they can access a limited number of apps on a 7" screen, with very low typing ability, and high theft risk? Great work HPS team; talk about invoking the old IT adage of "getting the requirement to fit the solution"

An eminently more sensible plan - if you must get people to buy things - would have been a Chromebook. Aside from having an actual keyboard, far more computing power than an iPad, and not actually having anything software/data/stuff on it to nick (it is literally just a box of bits), I suspect Google would have given you several thousand of the things for free. Furthermore, it doesn't matter if someone forgets/breaks/loses theirs; as a Cloud OS just pick up a spare one and crack on where you left off.

The even more absurd thing about this is that as an education facility, the IT at HPS will be a mixture of Windows and Linux. So adding a third OS to the mix will be doing what to keep IT support costs down?

Lastly, there is this bizarre idea in some of the IT backwaters (public sector, basically) that a tablet is a tool of productivity - it isn't. Unless you count very specific limited-application cases, a tablet is a consumption device; you watch, you listen, you browse, you read, you write a few emails. Nobody in their right mind would write a homework essay on a touchscreen keyboard. Even Apple pitch the iPad as a consumption device.

So, what HPS seems to have done here is spent a load of everyone else's money, made every HPS kid a mugging target (MDM or not, the hardware still has a value), and delivered the square root of nothing.

If BMS really wanted to teach IT and consumerisation to kids they say; "Here's a citrix licence, the rest is up to you - go off and learn how to make yourself online (it really is very simple). Bonus marks awarded for the least amount of money spent, if you turn up with a Linux machine you built yourself. Automatic A+ Distinction if you build a Raspberry Pi with PixelQi screen."

Handing things pre-built to kids on a plate doesn't teach and doesn't achieve.

For information the minimum amount once you add all the extras is £274 so a lot more than the "hundred and so quid" that has been quoted, which is why this is such a major issue to so many families. And when you try telling your child you can't afford it watching and listening to the panic of them being "the only kid without one" is created such an atmosphere in many homes I'm sure. How dare the school put us in such a position. Up until this I was a supporter of the school and its achievements but this has been handled so badly with little or no respect for the parents and I am really not happy.

"The Church of the Shining Fruit"!!! That has tickled me!
As MandyB666 says, there is a much bigger financial investment by parents than many people on here realise.
I have worked it out that The package for a Mini with a compulsory cover and insurance is £287 jumping to £335 for an iPad 2 and £386 for an iPad 4.
If, like me you have/will have two children at the school - two Minis will come to £444, two iPad 2s will be £618 and two iPad 4s a whopping £720.
Because as I said before, the discount on any extra devices is only 50% of the cost of an IPad Mini, even though the HPS booklet says it will discount the value of the Mini package.
If I've worked it out wrong, I will hold my hands up. But I don't think I have.
And all the promises that we would get 50% off any second device just isn't true.

LesleyN wrote:
"The school still needs to get on top of the daily bullying and constant distraction in class by a small percentage of the pupils. "
Definition of bullying "... includes destruction of property, theft of valued possessions, destruction of another's work..."
Those iPads are going to make a great target .

I think there is hardly any bullying at all. All you need to do is tell them and its solved in a matter of seconds as most rooms have CCTV. Of course there will be issues at first but I imagine that as the school is subsidising them (something everyone is forgetting) they will want to stop all the damage they can.

Black_Hawk wrote:

LesleyN wrote:
"The school still needs to get on top of the daily bullying and constant distraction in class by a small percentage of the pupils. "
Definition of bullying "... includes destruction of property, theft of valued possessions, destruction of another's work..."
Those iPads are going to make a great target .

I think there is hardly any bullying at all. All you need to do is tell them and its solved in a matter of seconds as most rooms have CCTV. Of course there will be issues at first but I imagine that as the school is subsidising them (something everyone is forgetting) they will want to stop all the damage they can.

Genius!

MandyB666 wrote:

SussexLifeform wrote:
I've been in IT sales for 16 years, currently work for a mobile telco selling to Banks in the City, and sell a lot of tablets. I've also got a teen at Blatch, with another one due to start in a few years time.

There's a lot of hyperbole and downright rubbish being thrown around here, along with some valid points.

The Church Of The Shining Fruit really has done a very good job in selling the dream to the teaching community.

So a hundred and whatever quid per kid, just so they can access a limited number of apps on a 7" screen, with very low typing ability, and high theft risk? Great work HPS team; talk about invoking the old IT adage of "getting the requirement to fit the solution"

An eminently more sensible plan - if you must get people to buy things - would have been a Chromebook. Aside from having an actual keyboard, far more computing power than an iPad, and not actually having anything software/data/stuff on it to nick (it is literally just a box of bits), I suspect Google would have given you several thousand of the things for free. Furthermore, it doesn't matter if someone forgets/breaks/loses theirs; as a Cloud OS just pick up a spare one and crack on where you left off.

The even more absurd thing about this is that as an education facility, the IT at HPS will be a mixture of Windows and Linux. So adding a third OS to the mix will be doing what to keep IT support costs down?

Lastly, there is this bizarre idea in some of the IT backwaters (public sector, basically) that a tablet is a tool of productivity - it isn't. Unless you count very specific limited-application cases, a tablet is a consumption device; you watch, you listen, you browse, you read, you write a few emails. Nobody in their right mind would write a homework essay on a touchscreen keyboard. Even Apple pitch the iPad as a consumption device.

So, what HPS seems to have done here is spent a load of everyone else's money, made every HPS kid a mugging target (MDM or not, the hardware still has a value), and delivered the square root of nothing.

If BMS really wanted to teach IT and consumerisation to kids they say; "Here's a citrix licence, the rest is up to you - go off and learn how to make yourself online (it really is very simple). Bonus marks awarded for the least amount of money spent, if you turn up with a Linux machine you built yourself. Automatic A+ Distinction if you build a Raspberry Pi with PixelQi screen."

Handing things pre-built to kids on a plate doesn't teach and doesn't achieve.

For information the minimum amount once you add all the extras is £274 so a lot more than the "hundred and so quid" that has been quoted, which is why this is such a major issue to so many families. And when you try telling your child you can't afford it watching and listening to the panic of them being "the only kid without one" is created such an atmosphere in many homes I'm sure. How dare the school put us in such a position. Up until this I was a supporter of the school and its achievements but this has been handled so badly with little or no respect for the parents and I am really not happy.

Had exactly this situation this evening when I told my twins that getting iPads wasn't a done deal Chorus of 'We'll be the only ones...!" Peer pressure and pester power!

There's a few other things HPS parents should consider.

The USB leads utilised by the current generation of Apple devices; 2 foot of wire, USB on one end, proprietary Apple connector on the other...

£15

Given they're not particularly tough, and easy to lose/steal, I'd be budgeting for at least one of them a term.

1. Taking a cheap and easy shot at teachers striking is low and irrelevant to this conversation. It won't have been teachers who brought this change in; it will have been senior management.
2. I'm pleased lots of people have commented things along the lines of "What's wrong with a pen and paper?" You're all dinosaurs and just as out of touch as Michael Gove.
3. I'm so bored or parents banging on about not being able to afford their children. DON'T HAVE CHILDREN IF YOU CAN'T AFFORD THEM. Why should my taxes pay for your children? £12 a month is nothing - even for struggling families. Maybe cut back on three pints or 30 cigarettes for a month? This initiative will have been done to help your children.
Use a condom next time. And if you can't afford them...

smiley_miley wrote:
I'm a HPS parent and at the moment I will not be getting iPads for my two at the school. I really don't see the benefit, think it's a lot of money that I can't afford, and haven't had a response to my queries so at the moment I just can't commit to it. I think my two spend enough time at home on laptops and mobiles I really don't want them hunched over iPads during school either. But then if the response is that they won't be on the iPads for hours on end...what's the point of them then?! I think a better option would be for the school to buy them, keep them as their property and be responsible for them, and issue them in class as and when they're using them for some project or other. To make us pay for them and take on responsibility for them when really, we don't all want them is not on. I wonder how many of us HPS parents aren't going to sign up for them? I, for one, am not.

You can afford laptops and mobiles but you can't afford to help your children with things which may actually them learn?

I weep for humanity.

Lightbulb48 - How old are you? Your comments read like a spoilt irate 10 year old! The comments about striking only serve to point out that a lot of parents are worried about the future of their jobs. My wife has not had a pay increase for years and my pay increases are well below inflation.

Not being a parent you will not understand all the direct and indirect costs involved in taking kids through school. Uniforms, trips etc are NOT free,

The comment about not having kids if you can't afford them is always the last resort of someone that can't win the argument. We have children because we love them - that simple. Part of being a loving parent is to ensure they get the best which means questioning anything that we are not convinced about. When you grow up and have your own children you will understand.

I have nothing against technology and am a bit of a geek so thats why I question the sense of the iPad fad in schools.

We have many questions and concerns that are not being answered by the school.

Lightbulb48 wrote:
1. Taking a cheap and easy shot at teachers striking is low and irrelevant to this conversation. It won't have been teachers who brought this change in; it will have been senior management.
2. I'm pleased lots of people have commented things along the lines of "What's wrong with a pen and paper?" You're all dinosaurs and just as out of touch as Michael Gove.
3. I'm so bored or parents banging on about not being able to afford their children. DON'T HAVE CHILDREN IF YOU CAN'T AFFORD THEM. Why should my taxes pay for your children? £12 a month is nothing - even for struggling families. Maybe cut back on three pints or 30 cigarettes for a month? This initiative will have been done to help your children.
Use a condom next time. And if you can't afford them...

So the fact that my circumstances have changed since I had children has no bearing on your thinking ( assuming you did actually think before posting such drivel ) ?

Those taxes you pay for the education of children ensure that :

a) our children get employment later in life so help pay your pension.

b) you have nurses, doctors, police officers etc etc to look after you.

The assumption that everyone drinks and smokes somewhat shows what a narrow and blinkered person you really are.

Dear Lightbulb48, Surprising to you but I don't have a problem affording these shiny new toys.Though, note, when people have children, they generally consider they have sufficient funds for housing, clothing, food and all the other material essentials for bringing up children . They don't usually expect, decades on, that some idiot is going to tell them they should have factored in the cost of an ipad

The reasons I'm against this scheme are these:

1) I have strong doubts the ipad is an essential part of my childrens educational development and I exercise my right to see beyond the glossy marketing and pester power and choose not to pay. I do believe in computers as a valuable aid to education. That's why they have them in the school library for all to use.

2) I believe in free education, and object strongly to a state school designing a scheme that demands parents pay hundreds of pounds, without even consulting them.

3) I had always assumed that school uniform for all, banning phones in school, providing computers in the library and a moneyless canteen system was to create an atmosphere of equality between pupils. I object to undermining that ethos by introducing a blatantly tiered system where the lucky pupil has an expensive £300 gadget, the less fortunate has a £200 one and all pupils are desperate not to be included in the group that has none.
.

LesleyN -May I say your post is about the best argued on here. You've got the whole issue down in three succinct paragraphs! Nice one.

Everyone has there own opinions on here but because I am a student in my last year of hove park school and going onto our sixth form, I think the benefits of these iPads will be:
You should see a rise in the amount of homework that will be given in because pupils can't say 'oh I lost my book or I lost the homework sheet' because it is all on the ipad

Also I think there will be better communication between teachers and students.

I also believe that it will benefit students that maybe don't have (for example) the best eye sight because it will be right in front of them on an ipad screen and they won't need to feel embarrassed to out up there hand to say they can't see the tv.

I think these iPads will be very beneficial for the school. It is a step forward in the success of Hovepark School I think.

97Anonymous - I think all parents can appreciate students enthusiasm - after all you are getting a shiny new iPad! However re read the concerns on this board. Lack of consultation, charging in a state school, lack of real evidence of perceived benefits, concerns over loss\damage\theft. ALL parents want the best for their children but many are worried about this imposed unproven gamble. It would have been better to run as a trail and by giving out iPads as in other schools. Its hard not to sound condescending but unless you run a home and have childcare responsibilities you really can't understand. Remember we are in a recession with more and more people either worried about or actually losing their jobs. Surely the worse time for a state funded school asking for yet more money over what they get from my and other parents taxes!

blenky wrote:
97Anonymous - I think all parents can appreciate students enthusiasm - after all you are getting a shiny new iPad! However re read the concerns on this board. Lack of consultation, charging in a state school, lack of real evidence of perceived benefits, concerns over loss\damage\theft. ALL parents want the best for their children but many are worried about this imposed unproven gamble. It would have been better to run as a trail and by giving out iPads as in other schools. Its hard not to sound condescending but unless you run a home and have childcare responsibilities you really can't understand. Remember we are in a recession with more and more people either worried about or actually losing their jobs. Surely the worse time for a state funded school asking for yet more money over what they get from my and other parents taxes!

I understand that the money that is paid for taxes should cover the cost of the iPads but they're not unfortunately and some people can pay less for the ipads depending on what income they have. I know it's a lot of money to pay just because we have a new piece of technology in school but I think it would really change the grades on a whole and unfortunately for parents they have to pay extra even though we are a public school that is run by the government

97Anonymous - Parents in real financial straights will get help or get them free. At the other end of the scale comfortably off parents will have no qualms paying outright or have current iPads used in school. The concern here is by the parents in the middle that do not qualify for help and will find this another financial outlay to HPS on top of everything else. We are unconvinced at the long term sustainability of any obvious short term pupil engagement. Such an experiment should have had parent consultation not imposed through peer pressure.

Why will they make grades go up? You can't write an essay on them, just google loads of stuff and make fancy films - but most phones can do both those things anyway. Who is going to pay for all the apps and books as well?

I had a meeting today with HPS Business Manager – who came across as very fair and open. He accepted in hindsight more consultation should have taken place with parents. He feels the deal they have is the best they could get and some cost has to be borne by parents. He pointed to Warden Park as an example of a similar model – in fact theirs is more expensive. I did point out some are doing it for no cost to parents!

I pressed him on the precise nature of no one being disadvantaged if cannot pay. He categorically confirmed iPads would be available for all in classrooms – however if borrowed in class they could not be taken home. I got an assurance that pupils would not be disadvantaged over the homework \ revision being set as iPad specific.

He will get exact details for me on insurance – e.g. what is NOT covered e.g. loss?

I left him in no doubt that we could not and will not pay, which he accepted based on our own circumstances, for what I feel is still an experiment.

97Anonymous wrote:
Everyone has there own opinions on here but because I am a student in my last year of hove park school and going onto our sixth form, I think the benefits of these iPads will be: You should see a rise in the amount of homework that will be given in because pupils can't say 'oh I lost my book or I lost the homework sheet' because it is all on the ipad Also I think there will be better communication between teachers and students. I also believe that it will benefit students that maybe don't have (for example) the best eye sight because it will be right in front of them on an ipad screen and they won't need to feel embarrassed to out up there hand to say they can't see the tv. I think these iPads will be very beneficial for the school. It is a step forward in the success of Hovepark School I think.

"I think the benefits of these iPads will be: You should see a rise in the amount of homework that will be given in because pupils can't say 'oh I lost my book or I lost the homework sheet' because it is all on the ipad"
No - they'll be replaced by the new excuses of "I accidentally deleted the file" or "I lost the iPad and ALL my work on every subject" or "My homework got stolen because it's on an expensive media consumption device".
And of course 9 times out of 10 the excuses really meant "I didn't do the homework".
Also, as mentioned several times previously - why an iPad? A netbook, laptop, Chromebook - all are better devices for doing homework on, have a keyboard which is better for typing on and are cheaper than an iPad. Why are these not being considered?

"Also I think there will be better communication between teachers and students."
Umm, why? What is the link between owning an iPad and "Better communication with teachers"?

"I also believe that it will benefit students that maybe don't have (for example) the best eye sight because it will be right in front of them on an ipad screen and they won't need to feel embarrassed to out up there hand to say they can't see the tv."
Oh I seeee. At last a compelling reason. They are asking every pupil in school to buy an an expensive iPad as a solution to the perennial issue of those huge number of children who have substandard eyesight ehich has inexplicably not been addressed with corrective eyecare, and who are also too embarassed to put their hands up.
But hang on, what about the other group? Those who are long sighted, who previously were perfectly happy with the distance TV but now struggle to see close up objects like an iPad (and who also have no corrective eyewear and are similarly shy)? We just made life worse for them!
But seriously if that's the kind of example people have to resort to to demonstrate the "improvement" then I think it's safe to say there isn't really one.

"I think these iPads will be very beneficial for the school. It is a step forward in the success of Hovepark School I think."
I don't think in any way it has been demonstrated what improvement they are supposed to bring.
Why is an iPad better than a cheaper laptop of similar weight?

blenky wrote:
I had a meeting today with HPS Business Manager – who came across as very fair and open. He accepted in hindsight more consultation should have taken place with parents. He feels the deal they have is the best they could get and some cost has to be borne by parents. He pointed to Warden Park as an example of a similar model – in fact theirs is more expensive. I did point out some are doing it for no cost to parents!

I pressed him on the precise nature of no one being disadvantaged if cannot pay. He categorically confirmed iPads would be available for all in classrooms – however if borrowed in class they could not be taken home. I got an assurance that pupils would not be disadvantaged over the homework \ revision being set as iPad specific.

He will get exact details for me on insurance – e.g. what is NOT covered e.g. loss?

I left him in no doubt that we could not and will not pay, which he accepted based on our own circumstances, for what I feel is still an experiment.

You're last sentence is a worry. The implication is that the school will only accept parents not buying an iPad if the circumstances are acceptable to the school. I'm guessing parents who won't buy them out of principle ( as would be the case for me ) won't see such an acceptance from the school ?

Fight_back - That's not the impression I got about not paying. I said in our circumstances we could not and would not pay based on a) could not afford it and 2) did not agree we should have to pay for a state school experiment.

He was clear there would be iPads available in class for those that did not buy in to the scheme and he gave no indication they were only available to those that did not buy in due to cost.

blenky wrote:
I had a meeting today with HPS Business Manager – who came across as very fair and open. He accepted in hindsight more consultation should have taken place with parents. He feels the deal they have is the best they could get and some cost has to be borne by parents. He pointed to Warden Park as an example of a similar model – in fact theirs is more expensive. I did point out some are doing it for no cost to parents!

I pressed him on the precise nature of no one being disadvantaged if cannot pay. He categorically confirmed iPads would be available for all in classrooms – however if borrowed in class they could not be taken home. I got an assurance that pupils would not be disadvantaged over the homework \ revision being set as iPad specific.

He will get exact details for me on insurance – e.g. what is NOT covered e.g. loss?

I left him in no doubt that we could not and will not pay, which he accepted based on our own circumstances, for what I feel is still an experiment.

He has a cheek quoting Warden Park, I know someone with a child there and they have been consulted right from the beginning even letting them know the plans before parents bought tablets for children for christmas. They will only roll them out in September 2013 if they have a parent majority, yes they are more expensive but how nice to have a choice!! HPS has been underhand and sneeky in their approach giving as little information as possible and limited time to truely make a considered decision. And only letting those who emailed to ask what would happen if you wouldn't or couldn't buy one - that the school will supply one. The bad way they handled this does give cause for concern that the scheme will even work!

MandyB666 wrote:

blenky wrote:
I had a meeting today with HPS Business Manager – who came across as very fair and open. He accepted in hindsight more consultation should have taken place with parents. He feels the deal they have is the best they could get and some cost has to be borne by parents. He pointed to Warden Park as an example of a similar model – in fact theirs is more expensive. I did point out some are doing it for no cost to parents!

I pressed him on the precise nature of no one being disadvantaged if cannot pay. He categorically confirmed iPads would be available for all in classrooms – however if borrowed in class they could not be taken home. I got an assurance that pupils would not be disadvantaged over the homework \ revision being set as iPad specific.

He will get exact details for me on insurance – e.g. what is NOT covered e.g. loss?

I left him in no doubt that we could not and will not pay, which he accepted based on our own circumstances, for what I feel is still an experiment.

He has a cheek quoting Warden Park, I know someone with a child there and they have been consulted right from the beginning even letting them know the plans before parents bought tablets for children for christmas. They will only roll them out in September 2013 if they have a parent majority, yes they are more expensive but how nice to have a choice!! HPS has been underhand and sneeky in their approach giving as little information as possible and limited time to truely make a considered decision. And only letting those who emailed to ask what would happen if you wouldn't or couldn't buy one - that the school will supply one. The bad way they handled this does give cause for concern that the scheme will even work!

That is not what they did at all. I have know for a while that if you don't pay then your child will be given one to borrow. They even said it on the evening about ipads. Also we have know they are coming for a long time. I think I even remember being told some time in October that they were considering bringing them in.

Black_Hawk - We only heard 'rumours' of iPads being introduced in HPS. Rumours such as all children will be given iPads free!! The only 'official' notice was the school presentation where it was introduced a done deal.

It has been said no pupil will be disadvantaged if their parents can't afford one - I wanted confirmation of what that means in reality - especially in respect of homework. I also asked about exactly what insurance will and will not cover. The Business Manager is going to clarify that for me.

So as MandyB666 says its all be presented very late without giving parents enough time to discuss, ask questions etc. - something which the BM accepted. All too late now though!

Why does a comprehensive school have a business manager? Is that even normal? Look at what he has gone and done by charging tax payers extra for comprehensive education. That is a contradiction in terms. This whole story seems like a massive **** up. What do the school governors have to say about this sorry affair I wonder? I would really like to know. I hope the Argus do a detailed follow up on this story. Or the BBC for that matter.

terminator 2000 wrote:
Why does a comprehensive school have a business manager? Is that even normal? Look at what he has gone and done by charging tax payers extra for comprehensive education. That is a contradiction in terms. This whole story seems like a massive **** up. What do the school governors have to say about this sorry affair I wonder? I would really like to know. I hope the Argus do a detailed follow up on this story. Or the BBC for that matter.

This article is almost all wrong and is missing key facts. As for the fact that you seem to believe everything in media is pure truth is deeply concerning.

Black_Hawk wrote:

terminator 2000 wrote:
Why does a comprehensive school have a business manager? Is that even normal? Look at what he has gone and done by charging tax payers extra for comprehensive education. That is a contradiction in terms. This whole story seems like a massive **** up. What do the school governors have to say about this sorry affair I wonder? I would really like to know. I hope the Argus do a detailed follow up on this story. Or the BBC for that matter.

This article is almost all wrong and is missing key facts. As for the fact that you seem to believe everything in media is pure truth is deeply concerning.

The points raised are not wrong. The poster is questioning why a state school is charging for education - a fair question. Also makes a very interesting point -what DO the governors think about how this has been handled?

I too am a parent at HPS. I have been reading the above, which has effectively become a blog on this subject, for the past week or so. I'm glad the opportunity to comment on this issue is here because there is no other forum available.

Blenky - we have not discussed this subject but our sons always attend each others birthday parties so I'm sure you will work out who I am!

This issue has caused an enormous amount of stress and anxiety in our household as I am sure it has in many others. I feel that HPS have behaved in an underhand manner in this process. The process has been manipulated and controlled in a way reminiscent of a totalitarian regime. The "consultation process" has been rushed and abrupt. It has in fact not been a consultation process at all. The icing on the cake for me was a text message which went to my wife's phone today which thanked all the parents who had signed up to the iPad scheme. A completely reprehensible attempt at manipulation. It was not a thank you message at all. If it was it would have been sent tomorrow after the deadline for signing up. No instead it was sent the day before the deadline and sent purely to make those who were unsure feel a sense of guilt. Coercion at best. Bullying at worst.

Let me lay my cards on the table. I agree with the vast majority of Blenky's comments and thought the post by LesleyN was excellent. I disagree on only one point in that I have no ideological objection to contributing financially to my children's education within the state system.

I do however object to a school insisting on my 11 and 13 year old children being asked to carry around £300 pieces of computer kit. The chances of it getting accidentally damaged or maliciously damaged or stolen are great. I can remember kids smashing other kids calculators and bikes etc when I went to school. It happens and theft is most likely to be undertaken for a bit of a laugh rather than any real intention to sell the stolen item.

The insurance on offer has not been adequately explained. What is and what is not covered is very vague and not enough answers are provided in the literature or on the website. It feels like I am being sold payment protection or product cover by a 16 year old sales assistant at Currys! I never signed up to any of these scams and I won't sign up to this unless I have THE FULL FACTS. I wonder if this selling of insurance in this manner complies with the requirements of the FSA?

I am also far from convinced that an iPad is the best piece of computer hardware that the school could have chosen but, as I am not an IT expert, I won't make a big deal out of this. My instinct is that a lap top would better serve the children from a capability point of view. But I would still not be happy with an 11 and 13 year transporting a valuable piece of kit like this around school and to and from campus.

So what are we doing? Our eldest child has been distressed by this process. He saved up for a mini iPad (delivering leaflets for a local business) and bought one about 6 months ago. He insists he wants to take this to school and so I have reluctantly agreed to pay £12 for the required app. We have not taken up the insurance because the exclusions appear to make the insurance virtually worthless.

For now we are not getting an iPad for our 11 year old and will wait and see if our concerns on various issues can be allayed.

Computers are the future but the way this matter has been handled by HPS has been shambolic and for me calls into question the judgement of those who have run the process.

One final point on a slightly different tangent. In 2007 the intake of HPS and Blatch Mill became in part a lottery rather than a purely geographic one. This made for a much more equitable distribution of kids from what could be described as "middle class areas". These children subsequently sat their GCSE's in 2012 and surprise, surprise the HPS results improved markedly...... Think about it.......

As there is no official avenue to discuss this issue so for those of you who use Twitter you may want to make your view felt at @HpsHove and @HoveParkHead. Also you can tweet the Argus reporter James Glover @MrGloverman or the Argus @brightonargus. Good luck!

blenky wrote:
As there is no official avenue to discuss this issue so for those of you who use Twitter you may want to make your view felt at @HpsHove and @HoveParkHead. Also you can tweet the Argus reporter James Glover @MrGloverman or the Argus @brightonargus. Good luck!

James Glover is not a reporter but assistant news editor.

The Argus education reporter is @bypeterbrighton

Ellie-P wrote:
What the school fail to mention in your article is that the children have to sign a pledge form - they have to promise to keep the ipad in the case provided...the case is NOT provided - it is an additional cost to the parents as they have to buy it. They also have to promise to charge the ipad every night at home..AGAIN additional cost to the parents. Oh and they also have to pay an additional contribution for internet use. Needless to say I will not be buying into this scam. I will, however, be worrying that my child may be mugged on tne way to school because they are wearing a Hove Park uniform. Every Hove Park pupil will now be a target for muggers regardless of whether they have an Ipad or not. Has Mr Trimmer thought of that??

He has actually. According to him, when this was carried out in other schools, no one was mugged. But you can't believe that no one was, if the whole county knew they all had iPads.

I think the question to be asked is why would muggers read the Argus. Its not like its national news and I don't think people who sink that low to mug kids read that sort of thing if they even read at all.

littlemisssunshine wrote:
I can't believe how many dinosaurs we have living in Brighton and Hove! I am excited that my son is going to be part of such an innovative plan, accessing information he requires to learn, at the touch of a button, attending fast paced, exciting lessons, that are not only educational, but fun! iPads at a reduced rate - I'm biting the school's hand off! well worth every penny - apps, ibooks, itunesu - cheaper and less tiresome than a letts workbook! I have no qualms about him learning to write; this is something I ensured my son could do well before attending a secondary. I am also not concerned about him being mugged - most kids carry expensive phones to and from school and I've not yet seen The Argus report an endemic of them being 'held up' for those on the commute to and from school!
If Hove Park implements the use of these 'learning tools' as part of their 'learning transformation' and it gives my child a greater chance of succeeding at GCSE, a greater ability to learn independently, and he enjoys doing so, I feel it's money well spent.
Well done Hove Park for leading where others will surely, belatedly, follow.

You really sound like someone who is trying to make it sound better, like a teacher from HPS. The "reduced" iPads?
An iPad mini, straight from Apple, £269. From HPS, reduced? £209. Not a very big reduction, is it?

Also, you could buy 5 Letts workbooks for every subject, and still be nowhere near the cost of an iPad.

Your point about him not being mugged, as most kids have mobiles? Mobiles are worth less, ruined and unsellable a lot of the time, and harder to find. You can't hide an iPad in your pocket.

Also, you say your son knows how to write, and basically say he doesn't need to practice, but what if, when it comes to GCSE's his writing has gotten so bad that his answers are illegible, and therefore he is marked down?

Lightbulb48 wrote:
1. Taking a cheap and easy shot at teachers striking is low and irrelevant to this conversation. It won't have been teachers who brought this change in; it will have been senior management.
2. I'm pleased lots of people have commented things along the lines of "What's wrong with a pen and paper?" You're all dinosaurs and just as out of touch as Michael Gove.
3. I'm so bored or parents banging on about not being able to afford their children. DON'T HAVE CHILDREN IF YOU CAN'T AFFORD THEM. Why should my taxes pay for your children? £12 a month is nothing - even for struggling families. Maybe cut back on three pints or 30 cigarettes for a month? This initiative will have been done to help your children.
Use a condom next time. And if you can't afford them...

£12...
An iPad 2 is £15 a month...For 2 years...

TonicWater wrote:

Lightbulb48 wrote:
1. Taking a cheap and easy shot at teachers striking is low and irrelevant to this conversation. It won't have been teachers who brought this change in; it will have been senior management.
2. I'm pleased lots of people have commented things along the lines of "What's wrong with a pen and paper?" You're all dinosaurs and just as out of touch as Michael Gove.
3. I'm so bored or parents banging on about not being able to afford their children. DON'T HAVE CHILDREN IF YOU CAN'T AFFORD THEM. Why should my taxes pay for your children? £12 a month is nothing - even for struggling families. Maybe cut back on three pints or 30 cigarettes for a month? This initiative will have been done to help your children.
Use a condom next time. And if you can't afford them...

£12...
An iPad 2 is £15 a month...For 2 years...

That is £3.75 a week for an ipad 2 and £3 a week for an ipad mini. That is almost nothing and surely people will be able to pay that. After all that's the same amount some wildlife funds want.

Black_Hawk - go back through the comments!

Its not JUST a matter of cost. There are many other issues. I'm not going to list them again - just read!

I am a student at Hove Park in year 9. I have read EVERY single comment, and some of the things people have put are ridiculous. So I have some things to tell you.

1. You get £40 of free apps,

2. If you are playing on games during school time, they can freeze the apps, or if it is borrowed or still being paid for, suspend it from you.

3. Even if it is your own device, their software is a compulsory £14.

4. If it is your own device, warranty and insurance or optional, but you have to buy it off them, totaling up to £76, and it has to be under 12 months old.

5. Although it costs a little extra, you are allowed to choose what colour the iPad is, as well as a Tecknet or Griffin case, with a range of colors, giving you a sense of originality that you don't get with books you aren't allowed to draw on. But you aren’t allowed to put stickers directly on the iPad, or deface the HPS sticker.

6. You can also choose which iPad, from:

iPad Mini
iPad 2
iPad with Retina Display,

Which range from £12.40 - 17.29 with the additional cost of the case. This is spread on a monthly sum over 2 years, or directly.

7. If you buy it over 2 years, it semi-belongs to them for the entirety of the time you are still paying.

8. The warranty and insurance cover you buy off them only lasts 2 years.

9. Another student mentioned earlier that a broken drumkit was stolen once, but there hasn't been any other major thefts at lower school for at least three years.

10. HPS did do a trial run, starting after they announced we were getting iPads.They did a trial in my friends Italian class, that they turned into a maths lesson to use in the video, which is ridiculous.

11. They gave all the teachers iPads first, which did seem to help. In PE, we watched back our performamces and evaluated them, which as boring as it was, had the right idea. They are also useful in language classes, when neither you nor the teacher nor the dictionary knows how to say something and you are doing an assessment.

12. You are not allowed to jailbreak.

My friend has 2 siblings, one who is at HPS, one who is probably going there. Even with the discounts, it would still cost her family a lot. If they don't get discounts on the Lightspeed software, insuarnce and warranty, and buy all of them with immedient payments, it would cost them £1087.50 which is utterly ridiculous. Well done if you have read all of this. The ordering website is here:

http://www.jtrs.co.u
k
/hovepark/index.php

TonicWater - Some interesting comments - thanks for sharing.

As a parent I had no idea of any trials in school. All we heard was rumours. The first official notification was the presentation on 13th March - and expected to sign up by 26th March.

I had a meeting with the Business Manager this week and can confirm the following: any child who does not have an iPad will not be left out/behind and will be able to make use of the school's owned ones which they will have available. As at Friday (which I believe was the cut off day for ordering) just over 50% of parents at HPS had placed their orders. So it's not as if 95% have and there's only 5% of us who can't/won't. It is not compulsory that we (HPS parents) buy in to this scheme as there will be iPads available for children who do not have them. They are re-opening the opportunity to purchase in two further stages so that we (HPS parents) can hold off for now and see how it goes for the first batch of children who get theirs and see how they settle in with them. They (HPS Business Manager) admitted they have rushed into it all without enough of a consultation period and admitted they should have handled it all a lot better than they did. So, that said, I'm satisfied for now that my 2 (at HPS) won't be left behind nor will they be 'the only ones without iPads'. However, if I find out that my 2 are sitting there waiting for x number of others to turn on their iPads (miss, mine won't start / miss, mine's not charged / miss, how do we do this that and the other) then I shall be straight back to the Business Manager asking why my 2 can't get on!!

Thank you Smiley Miley
A very useful post. Such a shame that the school are not volunteering this information. The lack of information coming out of the school on this subject is truly staggering.

The cut off date for orders was in fact Tuesday morning so I would think the order level is more like 65%. Not sure how they are counting the 25-30% of people who are entitled to a free one but I suspect 1 in 3 will be without for now.

I understand the school business manager reads this feed. Try and redeem yourself and start communicating with the parents at the school who have genuine and heartfelt concerns on this subject. My concerns are primarily with the insurance cover and the completely inadequate level of information provided. The best example of this is the statement that the iPads are protected from theft from a secure location. This is surely the most ridiculous exemption clause and completely invalidates the purpose of having insurance cover for theft. Or are the kids expected to carry the iPads around in a safe?! Childhood is meant to be time of freedom and not one where children are tied to the responsibility of carrying a £300 piece of kit around with them for 5 years.

A statement on the school website acknowledging the errors made in this process and providing further information about the questions asked by parents would be a good start.

And no more coercion please. My trust in the school has been gravely undermined by the way this matter has been handled.

smiley_miley - your post confirms what I was told by the Business Manager - see my post from 25/3 above.

Fozziefozborn - The BM promised me more info on the insurance and the school has sent me a document produced by JTRS. Anyone that wants to view it, copy this link into your browser - https://dl.dropbox.c
om/u/85765048/insura
nce%20overview.pdf

Loss is not covered and also not covered is if the device does not turn on or has broken down! Mmm.

I think that I could learn to live with this situation (once HPS actually formally acknowledges mishandling this whole process) if I didn't keep opening the local press and reading how the wonderful Head and team at HPS are giving iPads to every pupil.
Talk about spin!
This is in this weeks Latest mag...
'In three weeks HPS will start handing out iPads for all pupils to use in lessons. Within six weeks most of the 1600 children will have the tablet computers in class and will be able to take them home.'
'Derek Trimmer......added that while he wanted the parents of every pupil to make a contribution towards the minimum £209 cost, no one would be left behind.'
We have already been told that school owned devices will NOT be allowed to be taken home.
And I think paying in full for the blasted things constitutes more than a contribution.
Mr Business Manager, if you do read this thread, please do the hardworking and over stretched parents of your pupils a favour: give us some credit for the part we have been compelled to play in this scheme.

I am still not sure why a comprehensive school would have a Business Manager in the first place? Apparently is on close to £80000 and is new to the school. Then one of the first things he does is to charge parents hundreds of pounds for technology that many feel is over priced and second rate when compared to other brands or products. Highly dubious to say the least.

At last a Head with some sense - I just got this - BMS Newsletter - http://www.blatching
tonmill.org.uk/news/
news.asp?ID=497

Tippy Toes wrote:
At last a Head with some sense - I just got this - BMS Newsletter - http://www.blatching

tonmill.org.uk/news/

news.asp?ID=497

Tee hee - directed squarely at HPS! I get the impression that the Head of Blatchington thinks Mr Trimmer is a bit of a showman. However I won't take anything away from Mr Trimmer and the raising of standards but this iPad initiative has not been thought through.

bakermum wrote:
I think that I could learn to live with this situation (once HPS actually formally acknowledges mishandling this whole process) if I didn't keep opening the local press and reading how the wonderful Head and team at HPS are giving iPads to every pupil.
Talk about spin!
This is in this weeks Latest mag...
'In three weeks HPS will start handing out iPads for all pupils to use in lessons. Within six weeks most of the 1600 children will have the tablet computers in class and will be able to take them home.'
'Derek Trimmer......added that while he wanted the parents of every pupil to make a contribution towards the minimum £209 cost, no one would be left behind.'
We have already been told that school owned devices will NOT be allowed to be taken home.
And I think paying in full for the blasted things constitutes more than a contribution.
Mr Business Manager, if you do read this thread, please do the hardworking and over stretched parents of your pupils a favour: give us some credit for the part we have been compelled to play in this scheme.

bakermum please accept a round of applause for this fantastic post.

And as an example of perverse irony the online version of the Latest article cannot be read on a tablet (nexus or iPad). I had to switch to the PC to read it!

Just seen this post on HPS own website http://tinyurl.com/c
pfpcr3. Note the news item was posted March 28th - two days AFTER the deadline for parents to respond. It says "Evening events where staff and parents converse have been scheduled to iron out any wrinkles of doubt the parents may possess" - are they talking about the ones held or new ones planned? It also its says "The school is collaborating with Apple – and trialling the iPads with numerous students throughout the year-groups to ensure a smooth rollout". As a parent I was never told about any trials. The parent evening was the first official notification - just rumours before that.