Woman allegedly suffers homophobic abuse while walking through Brighton park

Ali Adolph (R) with her wife Kate allegedly suffered homophobic abuse from a group of children in Queen's Park Brighton

Ali Adolph (R) with her wife Kate allegedly suffered homophobic abuse from a group of children in Queen's Park Brighton

First published in News by , Crime reporter

A woman has told how a boy dressed as a monkey hollered homophobic abuse at her as she walked hand-in-hand through a park with her wife.

Ali Adolph, who earlier at Pride publically described how she loves Brighton and Hove because of its gay-friendly stance, was allegedly verbally abused by the boy and a group of his friends on Sunday at 8.30pm.

Sussex Police are now investigating the matter which took place in Queen's Park, Brighton.

Mrs Adolph, who lives with her wife Kate and two-year-old daughter in Hanover, Brighton, said she was horrified by the incident.

She said: “There were about 12 children, all about nine or ten years old, and about six of them were wearing onesies [all-in-one outfits].

“One boy started yelling abuse at us as we walked through the park - he was dressed as a monkey.

“It sounds ridiculous, but actually it was upsetting and I was angry.”

The Argus has taken the editorial decision not to publish what the boy and his friends reportedly said to the couple due to its offensive and homophobic nature.

Mrs Adolph, 44, who runs the The Short and Girlie comedy show, continued: “I said to him that he could not say things like that.

“I said, 'would you say something like that to your mother', and his friend said he would.

“I told him that you couldn't speak like that anywhere - but especially not in Brighton.

“I was offended and it is a criminal offence. We moved to Brighton because of its attitude - and you do not expect this.

“A day before I had been at Pride, compeering in a tent, and I said one of the things I love about the city was that you could walk down the street hand-in-hand with your girlfriend or boyfriend and no one would bat an eyelid.”

A Sussex Police spokesman confirmed the incident had been reported, adding: “We will be looking into this incident.

“All such reports are taken seriously by police as they can cause considerable fear among victims, other members of the community and local residents.

"We are committed to reducing all forms of hate crime and works closely with community groups to increase reporting, widen awareness, and build confidence with victims to help bring offenders to justice.”

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Comments (47)

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7:37am Tue 6 Aug 13

Rollin Hand says...

“I told him that you couldn't speak like that anywhere - but especially not in Brighton."

Only in Brighton my little chickadee would you be abused by a person in a Monkey Suit!

Unless... It was a REAL Monkey and you were off your face, that is sooo Brighton too!
“I told him that you couldn't speak like that anywhere - but especially not in Brighton." Only in Brighton my little chickadee would you be abused by a person in a Monkey Suit! Unless... It was a REAL Monkey and you were off your face, that is sooo Brighton too! Rollin Hand
  • Score: 14

8:00am Tue 6 Aug 13

hoveguyactually says...

It sounds like the thug and his friends might have escaped from a zoo. Let us hope they get recaptured and taken back.
It sounds like the thug and his friends might have escaped from a zoo. Let us hope they get recaptured and taken back. hoveguyactually
  • Score: -9

8:31am Tue 6 Aug 13

Cave Johnson says...

Get over yourself. Why did you have to go crying to The Argus? Does she want young children arrested?
Get over yourself. Why did you have to go crying to The Argus? Does she want young children arrested? Cave Johnson
  • Score: 5

8:35am Tue 6 Aug 13

mimseycal says...

Wrong approach. Kids aged between 9-10? You don't tell them they cannot say something ... you ask them why they say something. Getting them to think about what they are saying is far better then using the blunt force of PC.
Wrong approach. Kids aged between 9-10? You don't tell them they cannot say something ... you ask them why they say something. Getting them to think about what they are saying is far better then using the blunt force of PC. mimseycal
  • Score: 26

8:35am Tue 6 Aug 13

Rollin Hand says...

Having 10 and 1 year olds in Monkey Suits call you names is frightening and upsetting, when you are 10 and 12.... Absolutely pathetic...and Sooo Brighton...
Having 10 and 1 year olds in Monkey Suits call you names is frightening and upsetting, when you are 10 and 12.... Absolutely pathetic...and Sooo Brighton... Rollin Hand
  • Score: 15

8:37am Tue 6 Aug 13

Rollin Hand says...

Cave Johnson wrote:
Get over yourself. Why did you have to go crying to The Argus? Does she want young children arrested?
Could not agree with you more!
[quote][p][bold]Cave Johnson[/bold] wrote: Get over yourself. Why did you have to go crying to The Argus? Does she want young children arrested?[/p][/quote]Could not agree with you more! Rollin Hand
  • Score: 4

8:38am Tue 6 Aug 13

MzEden1 says...

Cave Johnson wrote:
Get over yourself. Why did you have to go crying to The Argus? Does she want young children arrested?
Young children with attitudes and opinions like this grow into adults with attitudes and opinions like this who breed children with attitudes and opinions like this!
[quote][p][bold]Cave Johnson[/bold] wrote: Get over yourself. Why did you have to go crying to The Argus? Does she want young children arrested?[/p][/quote]Young children with attitudes and opinions like this grow into adults with attitudes and opinions like this who breed children with attitudes and opinions like this! MzEden1
  • Score: 18

8:40am Tue 6 Aug 13

Morpheus says...

I had a teacher friend visit this weekend and we were discussing children's behaviour in schools. If the newspapers printed what actually goes on in schools this incident would not come as a surprise to anybody. Worse is to come.
I had a teacher friend visit this weekend and we were discussing children's behaviour in schools. If the newspapers printed what actually goes on in schools this incident would not come as a surprise to anybody. Worse is to come. Morpheus
  • Score: 11

8:41am Tue 6 Aug 13

martnin says...

This sort of verbal abuse is all too common. I was upset recently when some children commented on my haircut. I'm thinking of reporting them to the police.
This sort of verbal abuse is all too common. I was upset recently when some children commented on my haircut. I'm thinking of reporting them to the police. martnin
  • Score: 16

8:51am Tue 6 Aug 13

Rollin Hand says...

Judging by the arrests on Saturday, you were not the only homosexuals abused in the Park!
Judging by the arrests on Saturday, you were not the only homosexuals abused in the Park! Rollin Hand
  • Score: 17

8:52am Tue 6 Aug 13

martnin says...

I forgot to mention that the children in question were my own grandchildren. Still, abuse is abuse, they should be locked up.
I forgot to mention that the children in question were my own grandchildren. Still, abuse is abuse, they should be locked up. martnin
  • Score: 1

9:05am Tue 6 Aug 13

magoo says...

Ohh no the children are calling me names! This is news is it?
Ohh no the children are calling me names! This is news is it? magoo
  • Score: 10

10:12am Tue 6 Aug 13

Bill in Hanover says...

mimseycal wrote:
Wrong approach. Kids aged between 9-10? You don't tell them they cannot say something ... you ask them why they say something. Getting them to think about what they are saying is far better then using the blunt force of PC.
How about a clip around the ear.
[quote][p][bold]mimseycal[/bold] wrote: Wrong approach. Kids aged between 9-10? You don't tell them they cannot say something ... you ask them why they say something. Getting them to think about what they are saying is far better then using the blunt force of PC.[/p][/quote]How about a clip around the ear. Bill in Hanover
  • Score: 8

10:15am Tue 6 Aug 13

Bill in Hanover says...

martnin wrote:
This sort of verbal abuse is all too common. I was upset recently when some children commented on my haircut. I'm thinking of reporting them to the police.
Which police force would you complain to, the PC police, the fashion police or the thought police. You should remember that children are more truthful than adults when expressing opinions so perhaps your haircut was actually ridiculous.
[quote][p][bold]martnin[/bold] wrote: This sort of verbal abuse is all too common. I was upset recently when some children commented on my haircut. I'm thinking of reporting them to the police.[/p][/quote]Which police force would you complain to, the PC police, the fashion police or the thought police. You should remember that children are more truthful than adults when expressing opinions so perhaps your haircut was actually ridiculous. Bill in Hanover
  • Score: 4

10:45am Tue 6 Aug 13

mimseycal says...

Bill in Hanover wrote:
mimseycal wrote:
Wrong approach. Kids aged between 9-10? You don't tell them they cannot say something ... you ask them why they say something. Getting them to think about what they are saying is far better then using the blunt force of PC.
How about a clip around the ear.
Sorry Bill in Hanover. Maybe you can get someone else to oblige you ... I did hear tell that a dungeon has been discovered recently in a Brighton property ;-)
[quote][p][bold]Bill in Hanover[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]mimseycal[/bold] wrote: Wrong approach. Kids aged between 9-10? You don't tell them they cannot say something ... you ask them why they say something. Getting them to think about what they are saying is far better then using the blunt force of PC.[/p][/quote]How about a clip around the ear.[/p][/quote]Sorry Bill in Hanover. Maybe you can get someone else to oblige you ... I did hear tell that a dungeon has been discovered recently in a Brighton property ;-) mimseycal
  • Score: -3

11:10am Tue 6 Aug 13

martnin says...

Bill in Hanover, you are quite right, my haircut is ridiculous. But I reserve the right to have such a haircut. I am going to take the case to the European court of human rights. By the way it was my grandchildren that said it, however it's still abuse, hence my fight to get them locked up.
Bill in Hanover, you are quite right, my haircut is ridiculous. But I reserve the right to have such a haircut. I am going to take the case to the European court of human rights. By the way it was my grandchildren that said it, however it's still abuse, hence my fight to get them locked up. martnin
  • Score: 15

11:55am Tue 6 Aug 13

chancer6 says...

I am just as disgusted by some of the comments as I am by the action of these young boys. Would people be so quick to make flippant comments if it was racial abuse or sexual abuse? Would they find it as amusing if the boys were 15 or 16 and physically stronger?
Would it just be name calling if they were bullying their child at school and making them feel threatened? Everyone has the right to be able to walk down the street and not feel threatened.
Children become adults and behaviours continue if they are not taught otherwise.
I am just as disgusted by some of the comments as I am by the action of these young boys. Would people be so quick to make flippant comments if it was racial abuse or sexual abuse? Would they find it as amusing if the boys were 15 or 16 and physically stronger? Would it just be name calling if they were bullying their child at school and making them feel threatened? Everyone has the right to be able to walk down the street and not feel threatened. Children become adults and behaviours continue if they are not taught otherwise. chancer6
  • Score: 14

12:14pm Tue 6 Aug 13

mimseycal says...

chancer6 wrote:
I am just as disgusted by some of the comments as I am by the action of these young boys. Would people be so quick to make flippant comments if it was racial abuse or sexual abuse? Would they find it as amusing if the boys were 15 or 16 and physically stronger?
Would it just be name calling if they were bullying their child at school and making them feel threatened? Everyone has the right to be able to walk down the street and not feel threatened.
Children become adults and behaviours continue if they are not taught otherwise.
The operative word being 'taught'. Teaching someone involves getting them to reflect on what they are about ... that is if you want to educate people and not train parrots.
[quote][p][bold]chancer6[/bold] wrote: I am just as disgusted by some of the comments as I am by the action of these young boys. Would people be so quick to make flippant comments if it was racial abuse or sexual abuse? Would they find it as amusing if the boys were 15 or 16 and physically stronger? Would it just be name calling if they were bullying their child at school and making them feel threatened? Everyone has the right to be able to walk down the street and not feel threatened. Children become adults and behaviours continue if they are not taught otherwise.[/p][/quote]The operative word being 'taught'. Teaching someone involves getting them to reflect on what they are about ... that is if you want to educate people and not train parrots. mimseycal
  • Score: 3

12:23pm Tue 6 Aug 13

alanjones666 says...

Some of the comments posted are quite disgusting, as they were on the article about the Pride march.
The Argus doesn't do anything about them and seems to be encouraging the homophobic posts.
Some of the comments posted are quite disgusting, as they were on the article about the Pride march. The Argus doesn't do anything about them and seems to be encouraging the homophobic posts. alanjones666
  • Score: 3

12:53pm Tue 6 Aug 13

Cave Johnson says...

chancer6 wrote:
I am just as disgusted by some of the comments as I am by the action of these young boys. Would people be so quick to make flippant comments if it was racial abuse or sexual abuse? Would they find it as amusing if the boys were 15 or 16 and physically stronger? Would it just be name calling if they were bullying their child at school and making them feel threatened? Everyone has the right to be able to walk down the street and not feel threatened. Children become adults and behaviours continue if they are not taught otherwise.
The article does NOT say it was a group of boys. For all you know it was boys and girls.
[quote][p][bold]chancer6[/bold] wrote: I am just as disgusted by some of the comments as I am by the action of these young boys. Would people be so quick to make flippant comments if it was racial abuse or sexual abuse? Would they find it as amusing if the boys were 15 or 16 and physically stronger? Would it just be name calling if they were bullying their child at school and making them feel threatened? Everyone has the right to be able to walk down the street and not feel threatened. Children become adults and behaviours continue if they are not taught otherwise.[/p][/quote]The article does NOT say it was a group of boys. For all you know it was boys and girls. Cave Johnson
  • Score: 10

1:09pm Tue 6 Aug 13

chancer6 says...

Cave Johnson wrote:
chancer6 wrote:
I am just as disgusted by some of the comments as I am by the action of these young boys. Would people be so quick to make flippant comments if it was racial abuse or sexual abuse? Would they find it as amusing if the boys were 15 or 16 and physically stronger? Would it just be name calling if they were bullying their child at school and making them feel threatened? Everyone has the right to be able to walk down the street and not feel threatened. Children become adults and behaviours continue if they are not taught otherwise.
The article does NOT say it was a group of boys. For all you know it was boys and girls.
Boys or boys and girls. The point was everyone has the right to walk down the street without being abused.
[quote][p][bold]Cave Johnson[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]chancer6[/bold] wrote: I am just as disgusted by some of the comments as I am by the action of these young boys. Would people be so quick to make flippant comments if it was racial abuse or sexual abuse? Would they find it as amusing if the boys were 15 or 16 and physically stronger? Would it just be name calling if they were bullying their child at school and making them feel threatened? Everyone has the right to be able to walk down the street and not feel threatened. Children become adults and behaviours continue if they are not taught otherwise.[/p][/quote]The article does NOT say it was a group of boys. For all you know it was boys and girls.[/p][/quote]Boys or boys and girls. The point was everyone has the right to walk down the street without being abused. chancer6
  • Score: 7

1:14pm Tue 6 Aug 13

mark5 says...

Oh No, not a 10 year old in a monkey suit! I can well imagine the fear, no the terror, experienced by these two ladies! As others have said, this would only be a reported case in Brighton! Why cant these people grow up and get a life?! And I am not talking about the kids either! Oh no, I have just thought that the "monkey suit" might have been a symbol of some sort of racist "issue" as well as a homophobic one...............No
oooooooooooooo, what a dreadful state of affairs!
Oh No, not a 10 year old in a monkey suit! I can well imagine the fear, no the terror, experienced by these two ladies! As others have said, this would only be a reported case in Brighton! Why cant these people grow up and get a life?! And I am not talking about the kids either! Oh no, I have just thought that the "monkey suit" might have been a symbol of some sort of racist "issue" as well as a homophobic one...............No oooooooooooooo, what a dreadful state of affairs! mark5
  • Score: 4

1:37pm Tue 6 Aug 13

Helenli says...

The saddest thing about this is the response from adults reiterating the children's behaviour. Children learn from example- the incident was relatively minor however when put into context- I.E. It was the weekend of pride it suggests to me that the children learnt these words from adults.

I happen to know Ali as she very kindly helped me raise a huge amount of money for The British Red Cross after the Tsunami hit Japan and I put on an event in London to raise money for the charity.

I also happen to know they also also threw a branch at her.

I should hope we all know verbal abuse is unacceptable whether from a child in a park or online. Given that children have access to the internet and no doubt will be reading this why do we not point out that? Why can the emphasis not be put on treating each other with respect? Obviously we can't change the world but we can each do our own bit.

What if they had shouted rascist abuse? Abuse against soldiers? Abuse against women? Abuse against mentally ill... the other comments suggest it is ok just because they are children? Some comments go on to be quite rude which is great as a role model.

Perhaps instead of allowing children to loiter the streets and parks (probably bored by the sounds of it) why not encourage them to do things for the community too? If they enjoy the park perhaps as a community a group could be set up for young children to look after the plants for example? It may even turn into a career route for them if not a hobby as an adult. I think teaching children respect from a young age helps them to become responsible rounded adults.

All the best.
The saddest thing about this is the response from adults reiterating the children's behaviour. Children learn from example- the incident was relatively minor however when put into context- I.E. It was the weekend of pride it suggests to me that the children learnt these words from adults. I happen to know Ali as she very kindly helped me raise a huge amount of money for The British Red Cross after the Tsunami hit Japan and I put on an event in London to raise money for the charity. I also happen to know they also also threw a branch at her. I should hope we all know verbal abuse is unacceptable whether from a child in a park or online. Given that children have access to the internet and no doubt will be reading this why do we not point out that? Why can the emphasis not be put on treating each other with respect? Obviously we can't change the world but we can each do our own bit. What if they had shouted rascist abuse? Abuse against soldiers? Abuse against women? Abuse against mentally ill... the other comments suggest it is ok just because they are children? Some comments go on to be quite rude which is great as a role model. Perhaps instead of allowing children to loiter the streets and parks (probably bored by the sounds of it) why not encourage them to do things for the community too? If they enjoy the park perhaps as a community a group could be set up for young children to look after the plants for example? It may even turn into a career route for them if not a hobby as an adult. I think teaching children respect from a young age helps them to become responsible rounded adults. All the best. Helenli
  • Score: 13

1:37pm Tue 6 Aug 13

Helenli says...

The saddest thing about this is the response from adults reiterating the children's behaviour. Children learn from example- the incident was relatively minor however when put into context- I.E. It was the weekend of pride it suggests to me that the children learnt these words from adults.

I happen to know Ali as she very kindly helped me raise a huge amount of money for The British Red Cross after the Tsunami hit Japan and I put on an event in London to raise money for the charity.

I also happen to know they also also threw a branch at her.

I should hope we all know verbal abuse is unacceptable whether from a child in a park or online. Given that children have access to the internet and no doubt will be reading this why do we not point out that? Why can the emphasis not be put on treating each other with respect? Obviously we can't change the world but we can each do our own bit.

What if they had shouted rascist abuse? Abuse against soldiers? Abuse against women? Abuse against mentally ill... the other comments suggest it is ok just because they are children? Some comments go on to be quite rude which is great as a role model.

Perhaps instead of allowing children to loiter the streets and parks (probably bored by the sounds of it) why not encourage them to do things for the community too? If they enjoy the park perhaps as a community a group could be set up for young children to look after the plants for example? It may even turn into a career route for them if not a hobby as an adult. I think teaching children respect from a young age helps them to become responsible rounded adults.

All the best.
The saddest thing about this is the response from adults reiterating the children's behaviour. Children learn from example- the incident was relatively minor however when put into context- I.E. It was the weekend of pride it suggests to me that the children learnt these words from adults. I happen to know Ali as she very kindly helped me raise a huge amount of money for The British Red Cross after the Tsunami hit Japan and I put on an event in London to raise money for the charity. I also happen to know they also also threw a branch at her. I should hope we all know verbal abuse is unacceptable whether from a child in a park or online. Given that children have access to the internet and no doubt will be reading this why do we not point out that? Why can the emphasis not be put on treating each other with respect? Obviously we can't change the world but we can each do our own bit. What if they had shouted rascist abuse? Abuse against soldiers? Abuse against women? Abuse against mentally ill... the other comments suggest it is ok just because they are children? Some comments go on to be quite rude which is great as a role model. Perhaps instead of allowing children to loiter the streets and parks (probably bored by the sounds of it) why not encourage them to do things for the community too? If they enjoy the park perhaps as a community a group could be set up for young children to look after the plants for example? It may even turn into a career route for them if not a hobby as an adult. I think teaching children respect from a young age helps them to become responsible rounded adults. All the best. Helenli
  • Score: -1

1:54pm Tue 6 Aug 13

chancer6 says...

Helenli wrote:
The saddest thing about this is the response from adults reiterating the children's behaviour. Children learn from example- the incident was relatively minor however when put into context- I.E. It was the weekend of pride it suggests to me that the children learnt these words from adults.

I happen to know Ali as she very kindly helped me raise a huge amount of money for The British Red Cross after the Tsunami hit Japan and I put on an event in London to raise money for the charity.

I also happen to know they also also threw a branch at her.

I should hope we all know verbal abuse is unacceptable whether from a child in a park or online. Given that children have access to the internet and no doubt will be reading this why do we not point out that? Why can the emphasis not be put on treating each other with respect? Obviously we can't change the world but we can each do our own bit.

What if they had shouted rascist abuse? Abuse against soldiers? Abuse against women? Abuse against mentally ill... the other comments suggest it is ok just because they are children? Some comments go on to be quite rude which is great as a role model.

Perhaps instead of allowing children to loiter the streets and parks (probably bored by the sounds of it) why not encourage them to do things for the community too? If they enjoy the park perhaps as a community a group could be set up for young children to look after the plants for example? It may even turn into a career route for them if not a hobby as an adult. I think teaching children respect from a young age helps them to become responsible rounded adults.

All the best.
I agree. I dread to think of the type of adult these children will become if they continue to behave in this way.
[quote][p][bold]Helenli[/bold] wrote: The saddest thing about this is the response from adults reiterating the children's behaviour. Children learn from example- the incident was relatively minor however when put into context- I.E. It was the weekend of pride it suggests to me that the children learnt these words from adults. I happen to know Ali as she very kindly helped me raise a huge amount of money for The British Red Cross after the Tsunami hit Japan and I put on an event in London to raise money for the charity. I also happen to know they also also threw a branch at her. I should hope we all know verbal abuse is unacceptable whether from a child in a park or online. Given that children have access to the internet and no doubt will be reading this why do we not point out that? Why can the emphasis not be put on treating each other with respect? Obviously we can't change the world but we can each do our own bit. What if they had shouted rascist abuse? Abuse against soldiers? Abuse against women? Abuse against mentally ill... the other comments suggest it is ok just because they are children? Some comments go on to be quite rude which is great as a role model. Perhaps instead of allowing children to loiter the streets and parks (probably bored by the sounds of it) why not encourage them to do things for the community too? If they enjoy the park perhaps as a community a group could be set up for young children to look after the plants for example? It may even turn into a career route for them if not a hobby as an adult. I think teaching children respect from a young age helps them to become responsible rounded adults. All the best.[/p][/quote]I agree. I dread to think of the type of adult these children will become if they continue to behave in this way. chancer6
  • Score: 1

2:30pm Tue 6 Aug 13

mark5 says...

chancer6 wrote:
Helenli wrote:
The saddest thing about this is the response from adults reiterating the children's behaviour. Children learn from example- the incident was relatively minor however when put into context- I.E. It was the weekend of pride it suggests to me that the children learnt these words from adults.

I happen to know Ali as she very kindly helped me raise a huge amount of money for The British Red Cross after the Tsunami hit Japan and I put on an event in London to raise money for the charity.

I also happen to know they also also threw a branch at her.

I should hope we all know verbal abuse is unacceptable whether from a child in a park or online. Given that children have access to the internet and no doubt will be reading this why do we not point out that? Why can the emphasis not be put on treating each other with respect? Obviously we can't change the world but we can each do our own bit.

What if they had shouted rascist abuse? Abuse against soldiers? Abuse against women? Abuse against mentally ill... the other comments suggest it is ok just because they are children? Some comments go on to be quite rude which is great as a role model.

Perhaps instead of allowing children to loiter the streets and parks (probably bored by the sounds of it) why not encourage them to do things for the community too? If they enjoy the park perhaps as a community a group could be set up for young children to look after the plants for example? It may even turn into a career route for them if not a hobby as an adult. I think teaching children respect from a young age helps them to become responsible rounded adults.

All the best.
I agree. I dread to think of the type of adult these children will become if they continue to behave in this way.
You make your point well Helenli and have emphasised your opinion 3 times for extra clarity! (only joking) Of course we do not want our children terrorising innocent people and then growing up into monstrous adults! I have 4 children and I would be having strong words with them if I found out that they were mis-behaving in this way, with anyone, not just members of the Gay community! I think there is some perspective needed here. This was a group of young children after all and it does not appear that anyone was hurt. Would the situation have been reported if the incident occurred in the straight community or in some south London borough? Possibly not! I am just becoming very world weary of some of the weak bleatings and posturings, by certain groups of people and the "air time" they frequently get compared to others, based on some perceived sense of marginalisation and discrimination.
[quote][p][bold]chancer6[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Helenli[/bold] wrote: The saddest thing about this is the response from adults reiterating the children's behaviour. Children learn from example- the incident was relatively minor however when put into context- I.E. It was the weekend of pride it suggests to me that the children learnt these words from adults. I happen to know Ali as she very kindly helped me raise a huge amount of money for The British Red Cross after the Tsunami hit Japan and I put on an event in London to raise money for the charity. I also happen to know they also also threw a branch at her. I should hope we all know verbal abuse is unacceptable whether from a child in a park or online. Given that children have access to the internet and no doubt will be reading this why do we not point out that? Why can the emphasis not be put on treating each other with respect? Obviously we can't change the world but we can each do our own bit. What if they had shouted rascist abuse? Abuse against soldiers? Abuse against women? Abuse against mentally ill... the other comments suggest it is ok just because they are children? Some comments go on to be quite rude which is great as a role model. Perhaps instead of allowing children to loiter the streets and parks (probably bored by the sounds of it) why not encourage them to do things for the community too? If they enjoy the park perhaps as a community a group could be set up for young children to look after the plants for example? It may even turn into a career route for them if not a hobby as an adult. I think teaching children respect from a young age helps them to become responsible rounded adults. All the best.[/p][/quote]I agree. I dread to think of the type of adult these children will become if they continue to behave in this way.[/p][/quote]You make your point well Helenli and have emphasised your opinion 3 times for extra clarity! (only joking) Of course we do not want our children terrorising innocent people and then growing up into monstrous adults! I have 4 children and I would be having strong words with them if I found out that they were mis-behaving in this way, with anyone, not just members of the Gay community! I think there is some perspective needed here. This was a group of young children after all and it does not appear that anyone was hurt. Would the situation have been reported if the incident occurred in the straight community or in some south London borough? Possibly not! I am just becoming very world weary of some of the weak bleatings and posturings, by certain groups of people and the "air time" they frequently get compared to others, based on some perceived sense of marginalisation and discrimination. mark5
  • Score: 8

3:01pm Tue 6 Aug 13

elephantsandowls says...

Are people seriously saying on here that she should have ignored the abuse? Kids at 10 know exactly that shouting homophobic abuse is unacceptable. Their behaviour needs to be corrected NOW, before they're too old to be open minded. Sad thing is, they've probably picked up the hate at home :(
Are people seriously saying on here that she should have ignored the abuse? Kids at 10 know exactly that shouting homophobic abuse is unacceptable. Their behaviour needs to be corrected NOW, before they're too old to be open minded. Sad thing is, they've probably picked up the hate at home :( elephantsandowls
  • Score: 5

3:36pm Tue 6 Aug 13

Cave Johnson says...

Helenli wrote:
The saddest thing about this is the response from adults reiterating the children's behaviour. Children learn from example- the incident was relatively minor however when put into context- I.E. It was the weekend of pride it suggests to me that the children learnt these words from adults. I happen to know Ali as she very kindly helped me raise a huge amount of money for The British Red Cross after the Tsunami hit Japan and I put on an event in London to raise money for the charity. I also happen to know they also also threw a branch at her. I should hope we all know verbal abuse is unacceptable whether from a child in a park or online. Given that children have access to the internet and no doubt will be reading this why do we not point out that? Why can the emphasis not be put on treating each other with respect? Obviously we can't change the world but we can each do our own bit. What if they had shouted rascist abuse? Abuse against soldiers? Abuse against women? Abuse against mentally ill... the other comments suggest it is ok just because they are children? Some comments go on to be quite rude which is great as a role model. Perhaps instead of allowing children to loiter the streets and parks (probably bored by the sounds of it) why not encourage them to do things for the community too? If they enjoy the park perhaps as a community a group could be set up for young children to look after the plants for example? It may even turn into a career route for them if not a hobby as an adult. I think teaching children respect from a young age helps them to become responsible rounded adults. All the best.
Yes mention charity why don't you. The article was also quick to give her career a quick plug. No one here gives a d@mn if she is gay or not, they just object to her weak, insipid 'poor me' attitude.
[quote][p][bold]Helenli[/bold] wrote: The saddest thing about this is the response from adults reiterating the children's behaviour. Children learn from example- the incident was relatively minor however when put into context- I.E. It was the weekend of pride it suggests to me that the children learnt these words from adults. I happen to know Ali as she very kindly helped me raise a huge amount of money for The British Red Cross after the Tsunami hit Japan and I put on an event in London to raise money for the charity. I also happen to know they also also threw a branch at her. I should hope we all know verbal abuse is unacceptable whether from a child in a park or online. Given that children have access to the internet and no doubt will be reading this why do we not point out that? Why can the emphasis not be put on treating each other with respect? Obviously we can't change the world but we can each do our own bit. What if they had shouted rascist abuse? Abuse against soldiers? Abuse against women? Abuse against mentally ill... the other comments suggest it is ok just because they are children? Some comments go on to be quite rude which is great as a role model. Perhaps instead of allowing children to loiter the streets and parks (probably bored by the sounds of it) why not encourage them to do things for the community too? If they enjoy the park perhaps as a community a group could be set up for young children to look after the plants for example? It may even turn into a career route for them if not a hobby as an adult. I think teaching children respect from a young age helps them to become responsible rounded adults. All the best.[/p][/quote]Yes mention charity why don't you. The article was also quick to give her career a quick plug. No one here gives a d@mn if she is gay or not, they just object to her weak, insipid 'poor me' attitude. Cave Johnson
  • Score: 5

3:43pm Tue 6 Aug 13

sussexram40 says...

Who hasn't had some verbals from dead-end kids at some point?
It's not really news is it. Well it is - but only because they were dressed as monkeys.
These woman need to toughen up a bit. It's not right but it's life. Much more important things to worry abut if you want to get worked up about something.
Who hasn't had some verbals from dead-end kids at some point? It's not really news is it. Well it is - but only because they were dressed as monkeys. These woman need to toughen up a bit. It's not right but it's life. Much more important things to worry abut if you want to get worked up about something. sussexram40
  • Score: 11

4:09pm Tue 6 Aug 13

illuminati at the Grove says...

alanjones666 wrote:
Some of the comments posted are quite disgusting, as they were on the article about the Pride march.
The Argus doesn't do anything about them and seems to be encouraging the homophobic posts.
Its called free speech my friend.
[quote][p][bold]alanjones666[/bold] wrote: Some of the comments posted are quite disgusting, as they were on the article about the Pride march. The Argus doesn't do anything about them and seems to be encouraging the homophobic posts.[/p][/quote]Its called free speech my friend. illuminati at the Grove
  • Score: 3

4:14pm Tue 6 Aug 13

mimseycal says...

sussexram40 wrote:
Who hasn't had some verbals from dead-end kids at some point?
It's not really news is it. Well it is - but only because they were dressed as monkeys.
These woman need to toughen up a bit. It's not right but it's life. Much more important things to worry abut if you want to get worked up about something.
Unacceptable behaviour needs to be challenged. No doubt about that. But calling the local newspaper and putting a hate crime on the PC incidence book is over reacting.

These are young children! If our response to every time a young child misbehaves is to call the local cop shop then we may as well accept that we need a nanny state as we certainly are not able to behave like responsible mature adults.
[quote][p][bold]sussexram40[/bold] wrote: Who hasn't had some verbals from dead-end kids at some point? It's not really news is it. Well it is - but only because they were dressed as monkeys. These woman need to toughen up a bit. It's not right but it's life. Much more important things to worry abut if you want to get worked up about something.[/p][/quote]Unacceptable behaviour needs to be challenged. No doubt about that. But calling the local newspaper and putting a hate crime on the PC incidence book is over reacting. These are young children! If our response to every time a young child misbehaves is to call the local cop shop then we may as well accept that we need a nanny state as we certainly are not able to behave like responsible mature adults. mimseycal
  • Score: 4

5:27pm Tue 6 Aug 13

Helenli says...

Thanks for the replies. I live in London (but spend a lot of time in Brighton) and see the massive difference strong parenting can have. I have known local parents in London to even take their children and make them apologise in person and seen a lot more things like this in the last year. I guess parents here have seen how quickly things can escalate from just jeering in the street to being much more serious especially when in a "safety in numbers" situation like being stood with all your mates. But role models don't always have to be parents, they can be pretty much anyone responsible.

I still stand by what I said before about them sounding bored. They are obviously confident young children.There is funding available to set up youth groups and with the amount of unemployment around I bet (subject to police checks) volunteers could be found to help run said groups so it needn't cost much. They could learn new skills. I'm happy to pass on funding details of groups that would be useful- Prince Charles Trust for example is all about young people. Perhaps it might even suit someone retired or a uni student looking for that first credit on their CV to help them get a job.

I could even play devils advocate and suggest they felt left out of the big "party" happening in their town for pride. I hope not, the whole point is about a community coming together. Perhaps they could even plan to be a part of it next year and march with their new 'group' of young people and promote what they are about?

I'm sure they are good children really and just got carried away in the moment, it's not easy being the one child to say "hang on, that's not right, you shouldn't be shouting at strangers in the street".

All the best to you all.
Thanks for the replies. I live in London (but spend a lot of time in Brighton) and see the massive difference strong parenting can have. I have known local parents in London to even take their children and make them apologise in person and seen a lot more things like this in the last year. I guess parents here have seen how quickly things can escalate from just jeering in the street to being much more serious especially when in a "safety in numbers" situation like being stood with all your mates. But role models don't always have to be parents, they can be pretty much anyone responsible. I still stand by what I said before about them sounding bored. They are obviously confident young children.There is funding available to set up youth groups and with the amount of unemployment around I bet (subject to police checks) volunteers could be found to help run said groups so it needn't cost much. They could learn new skills. I'm happy to pass on funding details of groups that would be useful- Prince Charles Trust for example is all about young people. Perhaps it might even suit someone retired or a uni student looking for that first credit on their CV to help them get a job. I could even play devils advocate and suggest they felt left out of the big "party" happening in their town for pride. I hope not, the whole point is about a community coming together. Perhaps they could even plan to be a part of it next year and march with their new 'group' of young people and promote what they are about? I'm sure they are good children really and just got carried away in the moment, it's not easy being the one child to say "hang on, that's not right, you shouldn't be shouting at strangers in the street". All the best to you all. Helenli
  • Score: -4

7:02pm Tue 6 Aug 13

EleanorB68 says...

In my 34 years of life in Brighton I have had a number of abusive and explicit comments from homosexuals. Two years ago I was threatened twice for daring to go out when Pride was going on. I did not rush to the police or the papers.
Grow up. Better still, if you don't like it here, leave.
In my 34 years of life in Brighton I have had a number of abusive and explicit comments from homosexuals. Two years ago I was threatened twice for daring to go out when Pride was going on. I did not rush to the police or the papers. Grow up. Better still, if you don't like it here, leave. EleanorB68
  • Score: 1

7:12pm Tue 6 Aug 13

toontotty says...

Whilst I can empathise with this a lot, I do think its quite naive to tell the abusers "you cant say that, especially in Brighton". I've lived all over the UK and in Brighton for the last 13 years. Its by far the most homophobic in terms of verbal / physical abuse, probably due to the higher 'visible' gay community. Abuse is never a nice thing to have to go through, especially by gangs of kids, but does it really warrant an article in the paper given the sheer amount of serious attacks on all sections of the community? I've has worse shouted at me, and just had to challenge it or walk on. Depending on how serious it was. Unfortunately we now have a new era of homophobes who abuse from behind a computer screen. So, hold your head up high, as if your getting abused for holding hands, then more fool them for being ignorant badly brought up kids.
Whilst I can empathise with this a lot, I do think its quite naive to tell the abusers "you cant say that, especially in Brighton". I've lived all over the UK and in Brighton for the last 13 years. Its by far the most homophobic in terms of verbal / physical abuse, probably due to the higher 'visible' gay community. Abuse is never a nice thing to have to go through, especially by gangs of kids, but does it really warrant an article in the paper given the sheer amount of serious attacks on all sections of the community? I've has worse shouted at me, and just had to challenge it or walk on. Depending on how serious it was. Unfortunately we now have a new era of homophobes who abuse from behind a computer screen. So, hold your head up high, as if your getting abused for holding hands, then more fool them for being ignorant badly brought up kids. toontotty
  • Score: 0

7:59pm Tue 6 Aug 13

south1919 says...

So where was Mr Adolf (great name) when all this was happening, considering she runs a comedy show you would of thought a monkey having a laugh would be right up her alley
So where was Mr Adolf (great name) when all this was happening, considering she runs a comedy show you would of thought a monkey having a laugh would be right up her alley south1919
  • Score: 2

9:38pm Tue 6 Aug 13

PorkBoat says...

south1919 wrote:
So where was Mr Adolf (great name) when all this was happening, considering she runs a comedy show you would of thought a monkey having a laugh would be right up her alley
*Snigger* You said "Right up her alley". *smirk*
[quote][p][bold]south1919[/bold] wrote: So where was Mr Adolf (great name) when all this was happening, considering she runs a comedy show you would of thought a monkey having a laugh would be right up her alley[/p][/quote]*Snigger* You said "Right up her alley". *smirk* PorkBoat
  • Score: 4

10:10pm Tue 6 Aug 13

south1919 says...

“I said, 'would you say something like that to your mother',
Probably not but then she gets on the right bus
“I said, 'would you say something like that to your mother', Probably not but then she gets on the right bus south1919
  • Score: 0

10:46pm Tue 6 Aug 13

High Wire says...

EleanorB68 wrote:
In my 34 years of life in Brighton I have had a number of abusive and explicit comments from homosexuals. Two years ago I was threatened twice for daring to go out when Pride was going on. I did not rush to the police or the papers.
Grow up. Better still, if you don't like it here, leave.
Your story begs a lot of questions - but do you not even see the irony?

Do you never yearn for a better world?
[quote][p][bold]EleanorB68[/bold] wrote: In my 34 years of life in Brighton I have had a number of abusive and explicit comments from homosexuals. Two years ago I was threatened twice for daring to go out when Pride was going on. I did not rush to the police or the papers. Grow up. Better still, if you don't like it here, leave.[/p][/quote]Your story begs a lot of questions - but do you not even see the irony? Do you never yearn for a better world? High Wire
  • Score: 0

10:54pm Tue 6 Aug 13

QueensParkDrama says...

Thank you to Sussex Police and the Argus for taking this matter seriously.

There are a few inaccuracies and assumptions in some of your comments. I originally mentioned the incident on social media. From that, Sussex Police informed me of the 101 incident report telephone number. I then decided to call them in case there were similar unreported incidents in the area. Extreme acts against minority and majority groups can start with unchallenged words.

If no-one knows about a problem then we can't find the solution.

The Argus found out and asked for an interview. I said yes in order to show the irony of this happening the day after I'd said “the best thing about Pride is walking down the street holding hands without fear”. And that's literally all we did that evening, walked past holding hands.

However, when you give an interview you don’t know what focus the journalist will put on the article, or what facts will be pulled out. And they tell you not to smile in the photo, which is difficult for someone who works in comedy.

Some people seem interested in the ethnicity and gender of the kids – they were white British boys and girls. Mostly watching the ringleader shouting homophobic comments. Some made additional personal comments about me, not dissimilar to comments above.

I can see how ridiculous it sounds being verbally abused by kids in onesies! Maybe that’s why the Argus picked up on it. And I do have a comedy name. So maybe I and my audiences will be laughing at this and your comments in future.

I didn't feel scared or threatened at the time. I felt angry. If I hadn't felt angry, I would have asked why they made the vile comments. I’ve never experienced any kind of homophobia before. But I'll get over it, there is far worse going on in Russia right now.

I don't want the kids locked up. The problem is I don't want other adults, but particularly other children, to experience verbal abuse and part of tree thrown at them. So it’s time to find a solution.
Thank you to Sussex Police and the Argus for taking this matter seriously. There are a few inaccuracies and assumptions in some of your comments. I originally mentioned the incident on social media. From that, Sussex Police informed me of the 101 incident report telephone number. I then decided to call them in case there were similar unreported incidents in the area. Extreme acts against minority and majority groups can start with unchallenged words. If no-one knows about a problem then we can't find the solution. The Argus found out and asked for an interview. I said yes in order to show the irony of this happening the day after I'd said “the best thing about Pride is walking down the street holding hands without fear”. And that's literally all we did that evening, walked past holding hands. However, when you give an interview you don’t know what focus the journalist will put on the article, or what facts will be pulled out. And they tell you not to smile in the photo, which is difficult for someone who works in comedy. Some people seem interested in the ethnicity and gender of the kids – they were white British boys and girls. Mostly watching the ringleader shouting homophobic comments. Some made additional personal comments about me, not dissimilar to comments above. I can see how ridiculous it sounds being verbally abused by kids in onesies! Maybe that’s why the Argus picked up on it. And I do have a comedy name. So maybe I and my audiences will be laughing at this and your comments in future. I didn't feel scared or threatened at the time. I felt angry. If I hadn't felt angry, I would have asked why they made the vile comments. I’ve never experienced any kind of homophobia before. But I'll get over it, there is far worse going on in Russia right now. I don't want the kids locked up. The problem is I don't want other adults, but particularly other children, to experience verbal abuse and part of tree thrown at them. So it’s time to find a solution. QueensParkDrama
  • Score: 2

11:43pm Tue 6 Aug 13

mimseycal says...

@ QueensParkDrama 10:54pm Tue 6 Aug 13

Now there is a difference right away. I don't get angry when I observe 9-10 year olds spouting ignorant rot. I get sad. Sad at the thought that here are some young kids who have been misled and misdirected by the very adults that should have been encouraging them to develop into balanced, thinking individuals.

You say that you and your wife were abused just for holding hands. It is wrong but what is even worse is that it is sad ...

Even if the powers that be asked me to make an official complaint, I would have refused ... in fact, I have refused to have incidences logged as 'racially motivated' just because some of the sad ignorant oiks pointed out the obvious. I started my own campaign instead. Inviting them to share with us, making batches of Ozni Haman (a special pastry we eat during Purim) sharing them and telling the story of why they were called Hamans' Ears being but one of the steps ... answering questions and asking questions of my own.

Not all of the kids learned but some did and they in their turn will teach others. A few years ago I bumped into one of those kids. She's all grown up now with kids of her own. Funnily enough, she asked me for the recipe for Ozni Haman ;-) which is probably why that incident came to mind. But one of the most rewarding moments of my life was when she told me that I had started her questioning her own assumptions.
@ QueensParkDrama 10:54pm Tue 6 Aug 13 Now there is a difference right away. I don't get angry when I observe 9-10 year olds spouting ignorant rot. I get sad. Sad at the thought that here are some young kids who have been misled and misdirected by the very adults that should have been encouraging them to develop into balanced, thinking individuals. You say that you and your wife were abused just for holding hands. It is wrong but what is even worse is that it is sad ... Even if the powers that be asked me to make an official complaint, I would have refused ... in fact, I have refused to have incidences logged as 'racially motivated' just because some of the sad ignorant oiks pointed out the obvious. I started my own campaign instead. Inviting them to share with us, making batches of Ozni Haman (a special pastry we eat during Purim) sharing them and telling the story of why they were called Hamans' Ears being but one of the steps ... answering questions and asking questions of my own. Not all of the kids learned but some did and they in their turn will teach others. A few years ago I bumped into one of those kids. She's all grown up now with kids of her own. Funnily enough, she asked me for the recipe for Ozni Haman ;-) which is probably why that incident came to mind. But one of the most rewarding moments of my life was when she told me that I had started her questioning her own assumptions. mimseycal
  • Score: 1

7:42am Wed 7 Aug 13

martnin says...

Levent wrote:
martnin wrote:
I forgot to mention that the children in question were my own grandchildren. Still, abuse is abuse, they should be locked up.
I doubt very much you've managed to reproduce, nor do I believe any of your offspring would even require the monkey suit, there would be no point!
By failing to read my previous posts on this matter you have completely misunderstood my comment. However I am prepared to accept your apology, provided I receive it within the next seven days and it is written on the back of a ten pound note.
[quote][p][bold]Levent[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]martnin[/bold] wrote: I forgot to mention that the children in question were my own grandchildren. Still, abuse is abuse, they should be locked up.[/p][/quote]I doubt very much you've managed to reproduce, nor do I believe any of your offspring would even require the monkey suit, there would be no point![/p][/quote]By failing to read my previous posts on this matter you have completely misunderstood my comment. However I am prepared to accept your apology, provided I receive it within the next seven days and it is written on the back of a ten pound note. martnin
  • Score: 1

7:59am Wed 7 Aug 13

jackthekipper says...

pathetic,as usual the minority trying to push the cause further and further,you want to be different then expect the odd remark,whether your gay or have a funny hairstyle or have different fashion tastes whatever..why must we have this rammed down our throats all the time ,why cant someone have an opinion if theyre straight
,i took my little boy on a boat trip from the marina and there was a lesbian couple on there full on french kissing for the entire 45 minutes,a few of us commented that we didnt want to see this and were met with such vitriol and abuse,i for one am sick of it so no wonder some kids might be anti,im afraid some of the gay community dont do themselves any favours
pathetic,as usual the minority trying to push the cause further and further,you want to be different then expect the odd remark,whether your gay or have a funny hairstyle or have different fashion tastes whatever..why must we have this rammed down our throats all the time ,why cant someone have an opinion if theyre straight ,i took my little boy on a boat trip from the marina and there was a lesbian couple on there full on french kissing for the entire 45 minutes,a few of us commented that we didnt want to see this and were met with such vitriol and abuse,i for one am sick of it so no wonder some kids might be anti,im afraid some of the gay community dont do themselves any favours jackthekipper
  • Score: 0

10:04am Wed 7 Aug 13

martnin says...

jackthekipper wrote:
pathetic,as usual the minority trying to push the cause further and further,you want to be different then expect the odd remark,whether your gay or have a funny hairstyle or have different fashion tastes whatever..why must we have this rammed down our throats all the time ,why cant someone have an opinion if theyre straight
,i took my little boy on a boat trip from the marina and there was a lesbian couple on there full on french kissing for the entire 45 minutes,a few of us commented that we didnt want to see this and were met with such vitriol and abuse,i for one am sick of it so no wonder some kids might be anti,im afraid some of the gay community dont do themselves any favours
Quite right.
[quote][p][bold]jackthekipper[/bold] wrote: pathetic,as usual the minority trying to push the cause further and further,you want to be different then expect the odd remark,whether your gay or have a funny hairstyle or have different fashion tastes whatever..why must we have this rammed down our throats all the time ,why cant someone have an opinion if theyre straight ,i took my little boy on a boat trip from the marina and there was a lesbian couple on there full on french kissing for the entire 45 minutes,a few of us commented that we didnt want to see this and were met with such vitriol and abuse,i for one am sick of it so no wonder some kids might be anti,im afraid some of the gay community dont do themselves any favours[/p][/quote]Quite right. martnin
  • Score: 0

12:20pm Wed 7 Aug 13

Minion says...

If everybody just rolls their eyes and says "oh they're just kids, grow up and stop being offended" then these kids grow up believing that this kind of behaviour is normal and acceptable (especially if some people find it amusing because theyre kids). They grow into teenagers and continue to behave like this and people on the receiving end of the abuse will feel threatened and it could end in violence. Then they grow into adults and have children of their own and they teach them that this kind of behaviour is normal and acceptable, rinse and repeat... it just speads homophobia peer to peer, generation to generation.

When they're kids it is the most important time for them to learn that this is wrong, this news report might actually help them and others to see how homophobic abuse is not acceptable in society today, and how it makes people afraid to walk the streets.

Ignoring it does nothing. Bringing it to attention is important.
If everybody just rolls their eyes and says "oh they're just kids, grow up and stop being offended" then these kids grow up believing that this kind of behaviour is normal and acceptable (especially if some people find it amusing because theyre kids). They grow into teenagers and continue to behave like this and people on the receiving end of the abuse will feel threatened and it could end in violence. Then they grow into adults and have children of their own and they teach them that this kind of behaviour is normal and acceptable, rinse and repeat... it just speads homophobia peer to peer, generation to generation. When they're kids it is the most important time for them to learn that this is wrong, this news report might actually help them and others to see how homophobic abuse is not acceptable in society today, and how it makes people afraid to walk the streets. Ignoring it does nothing. Bringing it to attention is important. Minion
  • Score: -1

12:25pm Wed 7 Aug 13

Hooitness says...

God almighty. Lets just wrap you all up in cotton wool, put ear muffs on you, and bodyguards to protect you from the big bad 10 year olds.

Grow a spine.
God almighty. Lets just wrap you all up in cotton wool, put ear muffs on you, and bodyguards to protect you from the big bad 10 year olds. Grow a spine. Hooitness
  • Score: 1

1:26pm Wed 7 Aug 13

Steve Ancell says...

When this kind of thing happens you should just look them in the eye and say IDGAF!, the troll withers and dies when it's not being fed. ;)
When this kind of thing happens you should just look them in the eye and say IDGAF!, the troll withers and dies when it's not being fed. ;) Steve Ancell
  • Score: 2

3:59pm Wed 7 Aug 13

LondonRocks says...

Judging by the comments made by the little darling's 'grandparent' I would say it's very much a case of 'Monkey see, monkey do'.
Judging by the comments made by the little darling's 'grandparent' I would say it's very much a case of 'Monkey see, monkey do'. LondonRocks
  • Score: 1

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