Anti-foie gras campaigners drive controversial pate off Brighton and Hove menus

The Argus: Protesters outside The Gingerman Protesters outside The Gingerman

Anti-foie gras campaigners say they are winning their Brighton and Hove campaign - but one restaurant owner has vowed to continue selling it despite protesters gathering outside his doors.

Award-winning chef Ben McKellar said his Gingerman restaurants would not not stop stocking the duck and geese liver products despite the pleas from animal rights campaigners.

The protesters, who are targetting restaurants across the city in a bid to make Brighton and Hove a “foie gras-free city”, have claimed that some businesses have already responded to their demands.

But Mr McKellar, whose Gingerman group runs four widely-revered restaurants in and around Brighton and Hove, said the assumption that all foie gras producers engaged in cruel practices was misplaced.

He added: “They are trying to tar everyone with the same brush. We use hand reared, smaller producing farms and I don't believe there is a cruelty angle there.

“I think there is ethically sourced foie gras and they think that all foie gras is cruel. 

"They shouldn't be putting pressure on a local business when we are serving something that is legal.

“If they think it's cruel they should go through the proper channels to change the law.”

Animal welfare campaigners continued their protests across Brighton this weekend with groups outside La Maison in East Street and The Gingerman in Norfolk Square.

Campaigners say that Havana Restaurant in Duke Street and Little Bay Restaurant in King's Road have already agreed to their requests to immediately remove the product from their Christmas, in house and online menus.

This weekend, La Cave a Fromage removed the products from their store in Western Road, Hove, and two sister stores in London.

Campaign organiser Yossarian Robins said: “We are doing even better than we thought we would and we've had a fantastic response from chefs and restaurant owners open to discuss the issue.

“We might not be foie gras free by the end of this year, although that would be nice, but I think we will get there soon.

“If a whole state like California can become foie gras free then surely Brighton and Hove can.

“The method is cruel whoever the supplier is, you can't call it foie gras if they haven't been force fed.”

Brighton Pavilion MP Caroline Lucas is among those who have spoken out against the foie gras.

Last year, she wrote to the Queen urging that London-based Fortnum & Mason was stripped of its royal warrant.

For more details on the campaign visit www.compassionbrightonandhove.co.uk.

Comments (40)

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5:59am Wed 18 Dec 13

Reporter1 says...

Food police controlling what we eat. They can get stuffed.
Food police controlling what we eat. They can get stuffed. Reporter1

7:58am Wed 18 Dec 13

BornInBrighton1968 says...

The hypocritical Animal Rights brigade never campaign against butchers and shops that sell Halal meat....
The hypocritical Animal Rights brigade never campaign against butchers and shops that sell Halal meat.... BornInBrighton1968

8:01am Wed 18 Dec 13

Juleyanne says...

Absolutely right. These poor birds are 'force fed' until their internal organs overload and explode. It is barbarically cruel and inhumane.
Absolutely right. These poor birds are 'force fed' until their internal organs overload and explode. It is barbarically cruel and inhumane. Juleyanne

8:04am Wed 18 Dec 13

Juleyanne says...

Absolutely right. These poor birds are 'force fed' until their internal organs overload. It is barbarically cruel and inhumane. Food for sadists.
Absolutely right. These poor birds are 'force fed' until their internal organs overload. It is barbarically cruel and inhumane. Food for sadists. Juleyanne

9:11am Wed 18 Dec 13

Alison Smith says...

It tastes horrible anyway.
It tastes horrible anyway. Alison Smith

9:18am Wed 18 Dec 13

The Prophet of Doom says...

Poncy food for poncy people.
Poncy food for poncy people. The Prophet of Doom

9:31am Wed 18 Dec 13

clearbluesky says...

Why is the leftie approach never to change hearts and minds to persuade people to change those choices that they make of their own free will; but always to seek to impose more rules, more controls, more restrictions. It baffles me.
Why is the leftie approach never to change hearts and minds to persuade people to change those choices that they make of their own free will; but always to seek to impose more rules, more controls, more restrictions. It baffles me. clearbluesky

9:46am Wed 18 Dec 13

Fight_Back says...

If I'd gone out for a nice meal and had this group protesting outside then I'd order the Foie Gras because of them. If they want things to change then try and educate people not confront them.
If I'd gone out for a nice meal and had this group protesting outside then I'd order the Foie Gras because of them. If they want things to change then try and educate people not confront them. Fight_Back

9:48am Wed 18 Dec 13

KarenT says...

"Hearts and minds" are already largely changed, especially given the recent press in the tabloids, but some restaurants will want to make sure they cater for even the minority or exception, cuz it's all about £'s to them. There is no such thing as "humane foie gras", given how it is made. What, do they humanely kill the goose first BEFORE they pump it's stomach until it explodes??? No, didn't think so. Won't be going to any of the Gingerman restaurants now... Pity, as I've heard they are quite good. I'll never know now.
"Hearts and minds" are already largely changed, especially given the recent press in the tabloids, but some restaurants will want to make sure they cater for even the minority or exception, cuz it's all about £'s to them. There is no such thing as "humane foie gras", given how it is made. What, do they humanely kill the goose first BEFORE they pump it's stomach until it explodes??? No, didn't think so. Won't be going to any of the Gingerman restaurants now... Pity, as I've heard they are quite good. I'll never know now. KarenT

9:55am Wed 18 Dec 13

KarenT says...

Fight_Back wrote:
If I'd gone out for a nice meal and had this group protesting outside then I'd order the Foie Gras because of them. If they want things to change then try and educate people not confront them.
You have to confront to educate (unless you do it via Skype)... And for restaurants and food shops who still DO sell the obscene stuff, they're doing it cuz of £'s, not lack of education. No matter how 'educated' the public has become about the reality behind wearing fur coats, for example, there's still a deeply selfish minority out there wearing them, who just don't give a stuff, and greedy shops that still stock them, to supply to that minority.
[quote][p][bold]Fight_Back[/bold] wrote: If I'd gone out for a nice meal and had this group protesting outside then I'd order the Foie Gras because of them. If they want things to change then try and educate people not confront them.[/p][/quote]You have to confront to educate (unless you do it via Skype)... And for restaurants and food shops who still DO sell the obscene stuff, they're doing it cuz of £'s, not lack of education. No matter how 'educated' the public has become about the reality behind wearing fur coats, for example, there's still a deeply selfish minority out there wearing them, who just don't give a stuff, and greedy shops that still stock them, to supply to that minority. KarenT

9:59am Wed 18 Dec 13

Fight_Back says...

KarenT wrote:
Fight_Back wrote:
If I'd gone out for a nice meal and had this group protesting outside then I'd order the Foie Gras because of them. If they want things to change then try and educate people not confront them.
You have to confront to educate (unless you do it via Skype)... And for restaurants and food shops who still DO sell the obscene stuff, they're doing it cuz of £'s, not lack of education. No matter how 'educated' the public has become about the reality behind wearing fur coats, for example, there's still a deeply selfish minority out there wearing them, who just don't give a stuff, and greedy shops that still stock them, to supply to that minority.
They sell it because there is still a demand for it. Stop the demand and they won't sell it. So therefore re-educating those that do want to eat it is the best way forward. Confront people and you run the risk that they will dig their heals in ( like I do when I'm effectively being told what to do ).
[quote][p][bold]KarenT[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Fight_Back[/bold] wrote: If I'd gone out for a nice meal and had this group protesting outside then I'd order the Foie Gras because of them. If they want things to change then try and educate people not confront them.[/p][/quote]You have to confront to educate (unless you do it via Skype)... And for restaurants and food shops who still DO sell the obscene stuff, they're doing it cuz of £'s, not lack of education. No matter how 'educated' the public has become about the reality behind wearing fur coats, for example, there's still a deeply selfish minority out there wearing them, who just don't give a stuff, and greedy shops that still stock them, to supply to that minority.[/p][/quote]They sell it because there is still a demand for it. Stop the demand and they won't sell it. So therefore re-educating those that do want to eat it is the best way forward. Confront people and you run the risk that they will dig their heals in ( like I do when I'm effectively being told what to do ). Fight_Back

10:03am Wed 18 Dec 13

Tallywhacker says...

clearbluesky wrote:
Why is the leftie approach never to change hearts and minds to persuade people to change those choices that they make of their own free will; but always to seek to impose more rules, more controls, more restrictions. It baffles me.
It's the brutal theory of total equality. Nobody is paid more has a bigger house or car, everyone is the same,greyness rules. If there was a left wing olympics the motto would be "Never higher, never faster never further, we all get medals". The problem is that it is a lot easier to cut down the top than raise the bottom the slowest set the pace for all. But why just patte why not raw oysters, cooking live lobsters. It's bad but tastes good, bit of a Catch 22 there.
[quote][p][bold]clearbluesky[/bold] wrote: Why is the leftie approach never to change hearts and minds to persuade people to change those choices that they make of their own free will; but always to seek to impose more rules, more controls, more restrictions. It baffles me.[/p][/quote]It's the brutal theory of total equality. Nobody is paid more has a bigger house or car, everyone is the same,greyness rules. If there was a left wing olympics the motto would be "Never higher, never faster never further, we all get medals". The problem is that it is a lot easier to cut down the top than raise the bottom the slowest set the pace for all. But why just patte why not raw oysters, cooking live lobsters. It's bad but tastes good, bit of a Catch 22 there. Tallywhacker

10:40am Wed 18 Dec 13

sarahsbrighton says...

KarenT wrote:
"Hearts and minds" are already largely changed, especially given the recent press in the tabloids, but some restaurants will want to make sure they cater for even the minority or exception, cuz it's all about £'s to them. There is no such thing as "humane foie gras", given how it is made. What, do they humanely kill the goose first BEFORE they pump it's stomach until it explodes??? No, didn't think so. Won't be going to any of the Gingerman restaurants now... Pity, as I've heard they are quite good. I'll never know now.
A couple of points here...

Whilst I agree that the majority of foie gras is not ethically sourced, there is a way to do it, and many businesses outside of France now use it to source their foie gras. It's all about timing, as around the period of migration the geese have naturally fatty livers - couple this with allowing them to eat freely (that's not force fed, neither is the food restricted) up until the point of slaughter, you get delicious and humane foie gras.

My next point is with regards to your comment: "some restaurants will want to make sure they cater for even the minority or exception, cuz it's all about £'s to them. " I'm not sure how much you know about the business side of the restaurant industry, but meeting food cost for most restaurants is incredibly difficult - as I'm sure you are aware, foie gras is not cheap, so to cater for the 'exception' as you put it would be pointless, and profitless.

It's a shame that reputable and upstanding local business like the Ginger group are being targeted by protestors - personally I think attention should be turned to the stream of cheap chicken and kebab shops lining Church Road - you really think their chicken is free range and ethically sourced?!
[quote][p][bold]KarenT[/bold] wrote: "Hearts and minds" are already largely changed, especially given the recent press in the tabloids, but some restaurants will want to make sure they cater for even the minority or exception, cuz it's all about £'s to them. There is no such thing as "humane foie gras", given how it is made. What, do they humanely kill the goose first BEFORE they pump it's stomach until it explodes??? No, didn't think so. Won't be going to any of the Gingerman restaurants now... Pity, as I've heard they are quite good. I'll never know now.[/p][/quote]A couple of points here... Whilst I agree that the majority of foie gras is not ethically sourced, there is a way to do it, and many businesses outside of France now use it to source their foie gras. It's all about timing, as around the period of migration the geese have naturally fatty livers - couple this with allowing them to eat freely (that's not force fed, neither is the food restricted) up until the point of slaughter, you get delicious and humane foie gras. My next point is with regards to your comment: "some restaurants will want to make sure they cater for even the minority or exception, cuz it's all about £'s to them. " I'm not sure how much you know about the business side of the restaurant industry, but meeting food cost for most restaurants is incredibly difficult - as I'm sure you are aware, foie gras is not cheap, so to cater for the 'exception' as you put it would be pointless, and profitless. It's a shame that reputable and upstanding local business like the Ginger group are being targeted by protestors - personally I think attention should be turned to the stream of cheap chicken and kebab shops lining Church Road - you really think their chicken is free range and ethically sourced?! sarahsbrighton

10:45am Wed 18 Dec 13

s&k says...

We should be able to eat well without unecessary cruelty.
We should be able to eat well without unecessary cruelty. s&k

1:10pm Wed 18 Dec 13

Cave Johnson says...

BornInBrighton1968 wrote:
The hypocritical Animal Rights brigade never campaign against butchers and shops that sell Halal meat....
Actually they do you tw@t
[quote][p][bold]BornInBrighton1968[/bold] wrote: The hypocritical Animal Rights brigade never campaign against butchers and shops that sell Halal meat....[/p][/quote]Actually they do you tw@t Cave Johnson

1:14pm Wed 18 Dec 13

Cave Johnson says...

Typical Argus commentors here who do not give a **** about animal welfare. They do not care how cruelly treated animals are. If you aren;t going to give up meat you can still opt for options that aren't so cruel, but you do not give a ****.

The Gingerman is rapidly going downhill. It's service is getting bad, as is the quality and size of their food. They are on the way out.
Typical Argus commentors here who do not give a **** about animal welfare. They do not care how cruelly treated animals are. If you aren;t going to give up meat you can still opt for options that aren't so cruel, but you do not give a ****. The Gingerman is rapidly going downhill. It's service is getting bad, as is the quality and size of their food. They are on the way out. Cave Johnson

1:33pm Wed 18 Dec 13

sarahsbrighton says...

Cave Johnson wrote:
Typical Argus commentors here who do not give a **** about animal welfare. They do not care how cruelly treated animals are. If you aren;t going to give up meat you can still opt for options that aren't so cruel, but you do not give a ****. The Gingerman is rapidly going downhill. It's service is getting bad, as is the quality and size of their food. They are on the way out.
I think it's a bit unfair to say that nobody here gives a **** about animal welfare. I love animals...have I tried foie gras? Yes I have, do I agree with how the majority of it is made? No I don't - but as above you can see there are suppliers who are providing ethical foie gras.

Also, eating meat doesn't mean one doesn't give a **** about animals - ever heard of free range? It almost sounds as though you are suggesting that everyone in the population should be a vegetarian!

Commenting that the Gingerman is 'on its way out' is neither relevant to this discussion topic, nor is it an informed statement - how could you possibly know - do you balance their books?

I agree with you that the quality has gone downhill - I much prefer the Ginger Pig in terms of food quality. Size is a little different though, I wouldn't want to insult your knowledge of fine dining, but I'm sure you'll recognise that the Gingerman isn't an American diner - our portion sizes in this country are massively skewed. If you ate three courses you should feel comfortably full - not as though you're about to burst.
[quote][p][bold]Cave Johnson[/bold] wrote: Typical Argus commentors here who do not give a **** about animal welfare. They do not care how cruelly treated animals are. If you aren;t going to give up meat you can still opt for options that aren't so cruel, but you do not give a ****. The Gingerman is rapidly going downhill. It's service is getting bad, as is the quality and size of their food. They are on the way out.[/p][/quote]I think it's a bit unfair to say that nobody here gives a **** about animal welfare. I love animals...have I tried foie gras? Yes I have, do I agree with how the majority of it is made? No I don't - but as above you can see there are suppliers who are providing ethical foie gras. Also, eating meat doesn't mean one doesn't give a **** about animals - ever heard of free range? It almost sounds as though you are suggesting that everyone in the population should be a vegetarian! Commenting that the Gingerman is 'on its way out' is neither relevant to this discussion topic, nor is it an informed statement - how could you possibly know - do you balance their books? I agree with you that the quality has gone downhill - I much prefer the Ginger Pig in terms of food quality. Size is a little different though, I wouldn't want to insult your knowledge of fine dining, but I'm sure you'll recognise that the Gingerman isn't an American diner - our portion sizes in this country are massively skewed. If you ate three courses you should feel comfortably full - not as though you're about to burst. sarahsbrighton

1:59pm Wed 18 Dec 13

Bubs says...

"Comfortably full - not as though you are about to burst" which is probably how the ducks and geese would prefer to feel too.....
Agreed, the restaurant owner is not doing anything illegal but this is really bad PR.
"Comfortably full - not as though you are about to burst" which is probably how the ducks and geese would prefer to feel too..... Agreed, the restaurant owner is not doing anything illegal but this is really bad PR. Bubs

2:31pm Wed 18 Dec 13

TheDrive says...

Well done campaigners. Keep it up. Cruelty is bad, whatever way you look at it.
Well done campaigners. Keep it up. Cruelty is bad, whatever way you look at it. TheDrive

2:46pm Wed 18 Dec 13

KarenT says...

sarahsbrighton wrote:
Cave Johnson wrote:
Typical Argus commentors here who do not give a **** about animal welfare. They do not care how cruelly treated animals are. If you aren;t going to give up meat you can still opt for options that aren't so cruel, but you do not give a ****. The Gingerman is rapidly going downhill. It's service is getting bad, as is the quality and size of their food. They are on the way out.
I think it's a bit unfair to say that nobody here gives a **** about animal welfare. I love animals...have I tried foie gras? Yes I have, do I agree with how the majority of it is made? No I don't - but as above you can see there are suppliers who are providing ethical foie gras.

Also, eating meat doesn't mean one doesn't give a **** about animals - ever heard of free range? It almost sounds as though you are suggesting that everyone in the population should be a vegetarian!

Commenting that the Gingerman is 'on its way out' is neither relevant to this discussion topic, nor is it an informed statement - how could you possibly know - do you balance their books?

I agree with you that the quality has gone downhill - I much prefer the Ginger Pig in terms of food quality. Size is a little different though, I wouldn't want to insult your knowledge of fine dining, but I'm sure you'll recognise that the Gingerman isn't an American diner - our portion sizes in this country are massively skewed. If you ate three courses you should feel comfortably full - not as though you're about to burst.
"If you ate three courses you should feel comfortably full - not as though you're about to burst."

You mean, like the geese?
[quote][p][bold]sarahsbrighton[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Cave Johnson[/bold] wrote: Typical Argus commentors here who do not give a **** about animal welfare. They do not care how cruelly treated animals are. If you aren;t going to give up meat you can still opt for options that aren't so cruel, but you do not give a ****. The Gingerman is rapidly going downhill. It's service is getting bad, as is the quality and size of their food. They are on the way out.[/p][/quote]I think it's a bit unfair to say that nobody here gives a **** about animal welfare. I love animals...have I tried foie gras? Yes I have, do I agree with how the majority of it is made? No I don't - but as above you can see there are suppliers who are providing ethical foie gras. Also, eating meat doesn't mean one doesn't give a **** about animals - ever heard of free range? It almost sounds as though you are suggesting that everyone in the population should be a vegetarian! Commenting that the Gingerman is 'on its way out' is neither relevant to this discussion topic, nor is it an informed statement - how could you possibly know - do you balance their books? I agree with you that the quality has gone downhill - I much prefer the Ginger Pig in terms of food quality. Size is a little different though, I wouldn't want to insult your knowledge of fine dining, but I'm sure you'll recognise that the Gingerman isn't an American diner - our portion sizes in this country are massively skewed. If you ate three courses you should feel comfortably full - not as though you're about to burst.[/p][/quote]"If you ate three courses you should feel comfortably full - not as though you're about to burst." You mean, like the geese? KarenT

2:47pm Wed 18 Dec 13

KarenT says...

KarenT wrote:
sarahsbrighton wrote:
Cave Johnson wrote:
Typical Argus commentors here who do not give a **** about animal welfare. They do not care how cruelly treated animals are. If you aren;t going to give up meat you can still opt for options that aren't so cruel, but you do not give a ****. The Gingerman is rapidly going downhill. It's service is getting bad, as is the quality and size of their food. They are on the way out.
I think it's a bit unfair to say that nobody here gives a **** about animal welfare. I love animals...have I tried foie gras? Yes I have, do I agree with how the majority of it is made? No I don't - but as above you can see there are suppliers who are providing ethical foie gras.

Also, eating meat doesn't mean one doesn't give a **** about animals - ever heard of free range? It almost sounds as though you are suggesting that everyone in the population should be a vegetarian!

Commenting that the Gingerman is 'on its way out' is neither relevant to this discussion topic, nor is it an informed statement - how could you possibly know - do you balance their books?

I agree with you that the quality has gone downhill - I much prefer the Ginger Pig in terms of food quality. Size is a little different though, I wouldn't want to insult your knowledge of fine dining, but I'm sure you'll recognise that the Gingerman isn't an American diner - our portion sizes in this country are massively skewed. If you ate three courses you should feel comfortably full - not as though you're about to burst.
"If you ate three courses you should feel comfortably full - not as though you're about to burst."

You mean, like the geese?
****, Bubs beat me to that golden opportunity. Well done!
[quote][p][bold]KarenT[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]sarahsbrighton[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Cave Johnson[/bold] wrote: Typical Argus commentors here who do not give a **** about animal welfare. They do not care how cruelly treated animals are. If you aren;t going to give up meat you can still opt for options that aren't so cruel, but you do not give a ****. The Gingerman is rapidly going downhill. It's service is getting bad, as is the quality and size of their food. They are on the way out.[/p][/quote]I think it's a bit unfair to say that nobody here gives a **** about animal welfare. I love animals...have I tried foie gras? Yes I have, do I agree with how the majority of it is made? No I don't - but as above you can see there are suppliers who are providing ethical foie gras. Also, eating meat doesn't mean one doesn't give a **** about animals - ever heard of free range? It almost sounds as though you are suggesting that everyone in the population should be a vegetarian! Commenting that the Gingerman is 'on its way out' is neither relevant to this discussion topic, nor is it an informed statement - how could you possibly know - do you balance their books? I agree with you that the quality has gone downhill - I much prefer the Ginger Pig in terms of food quality. Size is a little different though, I wouldn't want to insult your knowledge of fine dining, but I'm sure you'll recognise that the Gingerman isn't an American diner - our portion sizes in this country are massively skewed. If you ate three courses you should feel comfortably full - not as though you're about to burst.[/p][/quote]"If you ate three courses you should feel comfortably full - not as though you're about to burst." You mean, like the geese?[/p][/quote]****, Bubs beat me to that golden opportunity. Well done! KarenT

2:53pm Wed 18 Dec 13

KarenT says...

Hugh Fearnley Whittingstall:

"Some 87% of foie gras ducks are housed in individual cages, and life in a cage is presumably more miserable and brutish than one afforded freedom of movement. But the fact of gavage is the same for both, the final product extremely similar, so it seems to me a neat piece of casuistry to deem some foie gras ethically sound."

There is NO SUCH THING AS ETHICALLY SOUND FOIE GRAS!
Hugh Fearnley Whittingstall: "Some 87% of foie gras ducks are housed in individual cages, and life in a cage is presumably more miserable and brutish than one afforded freedom of movement. But the fact of gavage is the same for both, the final product extremely similar, so it seems to me a neat piece of casuistry to deem some foie gras ethically sound." There is NO SUCH THING AS ETHICALLY SOUND FOIE GRAS! KarenT

4:13pm Wed 18 Dec 13

getThisCoalitionOut says...

I can see from the comments here that there are a lot of people who don't give two hoots about cruelty to any living creature. That's a selfish attitude to have - I trust none of you attend religious establishments?
I can see from the comments here that there are a lot of people who don't give two hoots about cruelty to any living creature. That's a selfish attitude to have - I trust none of you attend religious establishments? getThisCoalitionOut

4:50pm Wed 18 Dec 13

Farouche says...

What a monstrous trade foie gras is. I would happily ram toilet waste down the necks of people who engage in this evil practice.

Thank you thank you to these wonderful campaigners who actually do the things I always wanted yo do: genuinely make a difference instead of just vaguely affirming how much they care, like I do. What wonderful people.
What a monstrous trade foie gras is. I would happily ram toilet waste down the necks of people who engage in this evil practice. Thank you thank you to these wonderful campaigners who actually do the things I always wanted yo do: genuinely make a difference instead of just vaguely affirming how much they care, like I do. What wonderful people. Farouche

5:12pm Wed 18 Dec 13

KarenT says...

sarahsbrighton wrote:
KarenT wrote:
"Hearts and minds" are already largely changed, especially given the recent press in the tabloids, but some restaurants will want to make sure they cater for even the minority or exception, cuz it's all about £'s to them. There is no such thing as "humane foie gras", given how it is made. What, do they humanely kill the goose first BEFORE they pump it's stomach until it explodes??? No, didn't think so. Won't be going to any of the Gingerman restaurants now... Pity, as I've heard they are quite good. I'll never know now.
A couple of points here...

Whilst I agree that the majority of foie gras is not ethically sourced, there is a way to do it, and many businesses outside of France now use it to source their foie gras. It's all about timing, as around the period of migration the geese have naturally fatty livers - couple this with allowing them to eat freely (that's not force fed, neither is the food restricted) up until the point of slaughter, you get delicious and humane foie gras.

My next point is with regards to your comment: "some restaurants will want to make sure they cater for even the minority or exception, cuz it's all about £'s to them. " I'm not sure how much you know about the business side of the restaurant industry, but meeting food cost for most restaurants is incredibly difficult - as I'm sure you are aware, foie gras is not cheap, so to cater for the 'exception' as you put it would be pointless, and profitless.

It's a shame that reputable and upstanding local business like the Ginger group are being targeted by protestors - personally I think attention should be turned to the stream of cheap chicken and kebab shops lining Church Road - you really think their chicken is free range and ethically sourced?!
Animal rights protesters can't be EVERYWHERE ALL AT ONCE! There are people who are actively campaigning for an end to KFC and similar places, and some that are even campaigning for an end to meat consumption. But then, they will be criticised no matter what they do. "Solve all the human starvation first...", which will NEVER happen. So until all humans are wealthy and eating well we should just ignore the plight of animals? In other words, FOREVER? What utterly stupid logic!
[quote][p][bold]sarahsbrighton[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]KarenT[/bold] wrote: "Hearts and minds" are already largely changed, especially given the recent press in the tabloids, but some restaurants will want to make sure they cater for even the minority or exception, cuz it's all about £'s to them. There is no such thing as "humane foie gras", given how it is made. What, do they humanely kill the goose first BEFORE they pump it's stomach until it explodes??? No, didn't think so. Won't be going to any of the Gingerman restaurants now... Pity, as I've heard they are quite good. I'll never know now.[/p][/quote]A couple of points here... Whilst I agree that the majority of foie gras is not ethically sourced, there is a way to do it, and many businesses outside of France now use it to source their foie gras. It's all about timing, as around the period of migration the geese have naturally fatty livers - couple this with allowing them to eat freely (that's not force fed, neither is the food restricted) up until the point of slaughter, you get delicious and humane foie gras. My next point is with regards to your comment: "some restaurants will want to make sure they cater for even the minority or exception, cuz it's all about £'s to them. " I'm not sure how much you know about the business side of the restaurant industry, but meeting food cost for most restaurants is incredibly difficult - as I'm sure you are aware, foie gras is not cheap, so to cater for the 'exception' as you put it would be pointless, and profitless. It's a shame that reputable and upstanding local business like the Ginger group are being targeted by protestors - personally I think attention should be turned to the stream of cheap chicken and kebab shops lining Church Road - you really think their chicken is free range and ethically sourced?![/p][/quote]Animal rights protesters can't be EVERYWHERE ALL AT ONCE! There are people who are actively campaigning for an end to KFC and similar places, and some that are even campaigning for an end to meat consumption. But then, they will be criticised no matter what they do. "Solve all the human starvation first...", which will NEVER happen. So until all humans are wealthy and eating well we should just ignore the plight of animals? In other words, FOREVER? What utterly stupid logic! KarenT

5:24pm Wed 18 Dec 13

davedebrax says...

sorry but this is just more bullying from a small minority.
We should be able to eat what we like within the law without being harassed.
If animal right activists object to Foie Gras they can try to get it banned in the UK by changing the law using the same means as everyone else.
sorry but this is just more bullying from a small minority. We should be able to eat what we like within the law without being harassed. If animal right activists object to Foie Gras they can try to get it banned in the UK by changing the law using the same means as everyone else. davedebrax

5:56pm Wed 18 Dec 13

KarenT says...

davedebrax wrote:
sorry but this is just more bullying from a small minority.
We should be able to eat what we like within the law without being harassed.
If animal right activists object to Foie Gras they can try to get it banned in the UK by changing the law using the same means as everyone else.
A number of countries, including Argentina, Turkey and Israel, have banned foie gras. Its production is also forbidden in those EU states with no history of making it: a meaningless and hypocritical non-rule. (France claims it's "part of their cultural heritage" for example, laughable!). I think it's banned in California in the US as well. Wake up! This is NOT a small minority! At the moment production is banned in the UK I believe, but import isn't. Just a matter of time!!! This ISN'T bullying! It's making people aware of the FACTS! Although some will continue to just NOT give a stuff because they're just "animals", which is why we still see idiots wearing fur coats.
[quote][p][bold]davedebrax[/bold] wrote: sorry but this is just more bullying from a small minority. We should be able to eat what we like within the law without being harassed. If animal right activists object to Foie Gras they can try to get it banned in the UK by changing the law using the same means as everyone else.[/p][/quote]A number of countries, including Argentina, Turkey and Israel, have banned foie gras. Its production is also forbidden in those EU states with no history of making it: a meaningless and hypocritical non-rule. (France claims it's "part of their cultural heritage" for example, laughable!). I think it's banned in California in the US as well. Wake up! This is NOT a small minority! At the moment production is banned in the UK I believe, but import isn't. Just a matter of time!!! This ISN'T bullying! It's making people aware of the FACTS! Although some will continue to just NOT give a stuff because they're just "animals", which is why we still see idiots wearing fur coats. KarenT

6:28pm Wed 18 Dec 13

LeonBIank666 says...

I eat meat and hate being preached to by vegetarians. I also do not much care for the liberal left wingers who have never had a job and smell of tinkle. However, I love animals and believe this is possible even though I eat them.

So where do I stand on this?

There are hundreds of tasty foods out there which can be cooked and eaten without making animals suffer. This is the same as there are loads of decent warm materials to keep out the frost withour wearing seal pup fur!!

I think this Ben McKellar chef (who I have never heard of by the way, despite being somewhat of a foodie) is coming across as an arrogant piece of filth. He clearly has no idea that ALL foie gras birds suffer.

I strongly believe he is merely standing his ground because of an ego issue. He either has a small winky, or is so up his own anus and can not see the wood through the trees.

Either way, he clearly does not know what he is talking about and I really hope people boycott his premises until he sees fit. I also hope he poos a hedgehog!

Ben, I know you are reading this - your ego will not let you ignore it. For the sake of having just one less item on your menu help stop the needless torture of Gods creatures. Are you really that bad a chef, you can not accommodate anything else on your "award winning" menu?
I eat meat and hate being preached to by vegetarians. I also do not much care for the liberal left wingers who have never had a job and smell of tinkle. However, I love animals and believe this is possible even though I eat them. So where do I stand on this? There are hundreds of tasty foods out there which can be cooked and eaten without making animals suffer. This is the same as there are loads of decent warm materials to keep out the frost withour wearing seal pup fur!! I think this Ben McKellar chef (who I have never heard of by the way, despite being somewhat of a foodie) is coming across as an arrogant piece of filth. He clearly has no idea that ALL foie gras birds suffer. I strongly believe he is merely standing his ground because of an ego issue. He either has a small winky, or is so up his own anus and can not see the wood through the trees. Either way, he clearly does not know what he is talking about and I really hope people boycott his premises until he sees fit. I also hope he poos a hedgehog! Ben, I know you are reading this - your ego will not let you ignore it. For the sake of having just one less item on your menu help stop the needless torture of Gods creatures. Are you really that bad a chef, you can not accommodate anything else on your "award winning" menu? LeonBIank666

7:40pm Wed 18 Dec 13

jimquadorig says...

Gingerman restaurants are my favourite in all of Brighton but will not go to any of them from now one. He sounds very arrogant!
Gingerman restaurants are my favourite in all of Brighton but will not go to any of them from now one. He sounds very arrogant! jimquadorig

11:07pm Wed 18 Dec 13

davedebrax says...

KarenT wrote:
davedebrax wrote:
sorry but this is just more bullying from a small minority.
We should be able to eat what we like within the law without being harassed.
If animal right activists object to Foie Gras they can try to get it banned in the UK by changing the law using the same means as everyone else.
A number of countries, including Argentina, Turkey and Israel, have banned foie gras. Its production is also forbidden in those EU states with no history of making it: a meaningless and hypocritical non-rule. (France claims it's "part of their cultural heritage" for example, laughable!). I think it's banned in California in the US as well. Wake up! This is NOT a small minority! At the moment production is banned in the UK I believe, but import isn't. Just a matter of time!!! This ISN'T bullying! It's making people aware of the FACTS! Although some will continue to just NOT give a stuff because they're just "animals", which is why we still see idiots wearing fur coats.
Argentina, Turkey and Israel?
talking about bullies...
[quote][p][bold]KarenT[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]davedebrax[/bold] wrote: sorry but this is just more bullying from a small minority. We should be able to eat what we like within the law without being harassed. If animal right activists object to Foie Gras they can try to get it banned in the UK by changing the law using the same means as everyone else.[/p][/quote]A number of countries, including Argentina, Turkey and Israel, have banned foie gras. Its production is also forbidden in those EU states with no history of making it: a meaningless and hypocritical non-rule. (France claims it's "part of their cultural heritage" for example, laughable!). I think it's banned in California in the US as well. Wake up! This is NOT a small minority! At the moment production is banned in the UK I believe, but import isn't. Just a matter of time!!! This ISN'T bullying! It's making people aware of the FACTS! Although some will continue to just NOT give a stuff because they're just "animals", which is why we still see idiots wearing fur coats.[/p][/quote]Argentina, Turkey and Israel? talking about bullies... davedebrax

11:20pm Wed 18 Dec 13

Matt_S says...

clearbluesky wrote:
Why is the leftie approach never to change hearts and minds to persuade people to change those choices that they make of their own free will; but always to seek to impose more rules, more controls, more restrictions. It baffles me.
Isn't the point of these protests to change hearts and minds and to highlight cruelty? It's not like they're going into restaurants and forcing people to only choose certain things on the menu.

That said, I think sometimes it is necessary to impose rules rather than try to change everyone's minds.

For example, slavery used to be legal. After it became illegal, many white people still thought black people were inferior to them and should be kept as slaves. And some racism still persists today. So should slavery never have been banned? Isn't it the case that people can be too ignorant or selfish to have their minds changed?
[quote][p][bold]clearbluesky[/bold] wrote: Why is the leftie approach never to change hearts and minds to persuade people to change those choices that they make of their own free will; but always to seek to impose more rules, more controls, more restrictions. It baffles me.[/p][/quote]Isn't the point of these protests to change hearts and minds and to highlight cruelty? It's not like they're going into restaurants and forcing people to only choose certain things on the menu. That said, I think sometimes it is necessary to impose rules rather than try to change everyone's minds. For example, slavery used to be legal. After it became illegal, many white people still thought black people were inferior to them and should be kept as slaves. And some racism still persists today. So should slavery never have been banned? Isn't it the case that people can be too ignorant or selfish to have their minds changed? Matt_S

11:44pm Wed 18 Dec 13

Martha Gunn says...

Foie Gras is obviously an appaling invention (not sure terms like ethically sourced and so have much to do with it). It's just plain awful.

But I'm also disgusted by nasty stuff and bully tactics of Green Party rent-a -mob brigade led by the Veganite zealots and fanatics.

Is this really top of their agenda?
That tells us something.
Foie Gras is obviously an appaling invention (not sure terms like ethically sourced and so have much to do with it). It's just plain awful. But I'm also disgusted by nasty stuff and bully tactics of Green Party rent-a -mob brigade led by the Veganite zealots and fanatics. Is this really top of their agenda? That tells us something. Martha Gunn

8:33am Fri 20 Dec 13

pachallis says...

Matt_S wrote:
clearbluesky wrote:
Why is the leftie approach never to change hearts and minds to persuade people to change those choices that they make of their own free will; but always to seek to impose more rules, more controls, more restrictions. It baffles me.
Isn't the point of these protests to change hearts and minds and to highlight cruelty? It's not like they're going into restaurants and forcing people to only choose certain things on the menu.

That said, I think sometimes it is necessary to impose rules rather than try to change everyone's minds.

For example, slavery used to be legal. After it became illegal, many white people still thought black people were inferior to them and should be kept as slaves. And some racism still persists today. So should slavery never have been banned? Isn't it the case that people can be too ignorant or selfish to have their minds changed?
I do detest arrogant, self-righteous people who think they are right and therefore that other people should "have their minds changed" to match their personal beliefs.

How do you define cruelty? Is any non-vegan diet by definition"cruel"?

I do get the impression that many of those protesting here have similar ideologies to those who were at Balcombe. Strong on passion and activism - weak on reality.

Provide good reasoning - yes. Publicize your views - yes. Peaceful protest - yes.

Raise the issue with your MP - yes. If necessary get it made illegal.

Empathise with others who might have differing views - yes. Brainwashing - no. Thought police - no.
[quote][p][bold]Matt_S[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]clearbluesky[/bold] wrote: Why is the leftie approach never to change hearts and minds to persuade people to change those choices that they make of their own free will; but always to seek to impose more rules, more controls, more restrictions. It baffles me.[/p][/quote]Isn't the point of these protests to change hearts and minds and to highlight cruelty? It's not like they're going into restaurants and forcing people to only choose certain things on the menu. That said, I think sometimes it is necessary to impose rules rather than try to change everyone's minds. For example, slavery used to be legal. After it became illegal, many white people still thought black people were inferior to them and should be kept as slaves. And some racism still persists today. So should slavery never have been banned? Isn't it the case that people can be too ignorant or selfish to have their minds changed?[/p][/quote]I do detest arrogant, self-righteous people who think they are right and therefore that other people should "have their minds changed" to match their personal beliefs. How do you define cruelty? Is any non-vegan diet by definition"cruel"? I do get the impression that many of those protesting here have similar ideologies to those who were at Balcombe. Strong on passion and activism - weak on reality. Provide good reasoning - yes. Publicize your views - yes. Peaceful protest - yes. Raise the issue with your MP - yes. If necessary get it made illegal. Empathise with others who might have differing views - yes. Brainwashing - no. Thought police - no. pachallis

3:57pm Fri 20 Dec 13

KarenT says...

pachallis wrote:
Matt_S wrote:
clearbluesky wrote:
Why is the leftie approach never to change hearts and minds to persuade people to change those choices that they make of their own free will; but always to seek to impose more rules, more controls, more restrictions. It baffles me.
Isn't the point of these protests to change hearts and minds and to highlight cruelty? It's not like they're going into restaurants and forcing people to only choose certain things on the menu.

That said, I think sometimes it is necessary to impose rules rather than try to change everyone's minds.

For example, slavery used to be legal. After it became illegal, many white people still thought black people were inferior to them and should be kept as slaves. And some racism still persists today. So should slavery never have been banned? Isn't it the case that people can be too ignorant or selfish to have their minds changed?
I do detest arrogant, self-righteous people who think they are right and therefore that other people should "have their minds changed" to match their personal beliefs.

How do you define cruelty? Is any non-vegan diet by definition"cruel"?

I do get the impression that many of those protesting here have similar ideologies to those who were at Balcombe. Strong on passion and activism - weak on reality.

Provide good reasoning - yes. Publicize your views - yes. Peaceful protest - yes.

Raise the issue with your MP - yes. If necessary get it made illegal.

Empathise with others who might have differing views - yes. Brainwashing - no. Thought police - no.
But that is exactly what they are doing!: providing reasoning, peaceful protest, campaigning MP's... But the only way you can truly change things is create plenty of outrage amongst the public through telling them all about the facts involved and getting restaurants (as they have already successfully done) to withdraw foie gras! Kind of like how the fox hunting ban worked! People campaigned, told everyone the facts, it was outlawed. That's how it works! Like someone else said here, there will always be a few die-hards that don't want to let go of things despite the cruelty involved, like slave ownership, bear baiting, fox hunting, etc. If a majority doesn't approve of something, it gets banned! That's called 'democracy'. Eventually it WILL be banned. It's just a matter of time.
[quote][p][bold]pachallis[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Matt_S[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]clearbluesky[/bold] wrote: Why is the leftie approach never to change hearts and minds to persuade people to change those choices that they make of their own free will; but always to seek to impose more rules, more controls, more restrictions. It baffles me.[/p][/quote]Isn't the point of these protests to change hearts and minds and to highlight cruelty? It's not like they're going into restaurants and forcing people to only choose certain things on the menu. That said, I think sometimes it is necessary to impose rules rather than try to change everyone's minds. For example, slavery used to be legal. After it became illegal, many white people still thought black people were inferior to them and should be kept as slaves. And some racism still persists today. So should slavery never have been banned? Isn't it the case that people can be too ignorant or selfish to have their minds changed?[/p][/quote]I do detest arrogant, self-righteous people who think they are right and therefore that other people should "have their minds changed" to match their personal beliefs. How do you define cruelty? Is any non-vegan diet by definition"cruel"? I do get the impression that many of those protesting here have similar ideologies to those who were at Balcombe. Strong on passion and activism - weak on reality. Provide good reasoning - yes. Publicize your views - yes. Peaceful protest - yes. Raise the issue with your MP - yes. If necessary get it made illegal. Empathise with others who might have differing views - yes. Brainwashing - no. Thought police - no.[/p][/quote]But that is exactly what they are doing!: providing reasoning, peaceful protest, campaigning MP's... But the only way you can truly change things is create plenty of outrage amongst the public through telling them all about the facts involved and getting restaurants (as they have already successfully done) to withdraw foie gras! Kind of like how the fox hunting ban worked! People campaigned, told everyone the facts, it was outlawed. That's how it works! Like someone else said here, there will always be a few die-hards that don't want to let go of things despite the cruelty involved, like slave ownership, bear baiting, fox hunting, etc. If a majority doesn't approve of something, it gets banned! That's called 'democracy'. Eventually it WILL be banned. It's just a matter of time. KarenT

9:33pm Fri 20 Dec 13

whoee! says...

Cave Johnson wrote:
Typical Argus commentors here who do not give a **** about animal welfare. They do not care how cruelly treated animals are. If you aren;t going to give up meat you can still opt for options that aren't so cruel, but you do not give a ****.

The Gingerman is rapidly going downhill. It's service is getting bad, as is the quality and size of their food. They are on the way out.
FACK OFF!!
[quote][p][bold]Cave Johnson[/bold] wrote: Typical Argus commentors here who do not give a **** about animal welfare. They do not care how cruelly treated animals are. If you aren;t going to give up meat you can still opt for options that aren't so cruel, but you do not give a ****. The Gingerman is rapidly going downhill. It's service is getting bad, as is the quality and size of their food. They are on the way out.[/p][/quote]FACK OFF!! whoee!

4:11pm Sat 21 Dec 13

her professional says...

TheDrive wrote:
Well done campaigners. Keep it up. Cruelty is bad, whatever way you look at it.
Agree, but excellent point posted earlier re cheap chicken and kebab shops. Maybe it's time for food outlets to state whether their products are ethical/free range. some already do this, but if it was mandatory then at least we could make an informed choice.
[quote][p][bold]TheDrive[/bold] wrote: Well done campaigners. Keep it up. Cruelty is bad, whatever way you look at it.[/p][/quote]Agree, but excellent point posted earlier re cheap chicken and kebab shops. Maybe it's time for food outlets to state whether their products are ethical/free range. some already do this, but if it was mandatory then at least we could make an informed choice. her professional

4:15pm Sat 21 Dec 13

her professional says...

LeonBIank666 wrote:
I eat meat and hate being preached to by vegetarians. I also do not much care for the liberal left wingers who have never had a job and smell of tinkle. However, I love animals and believe this is possible even though I eat them.

So where do I stand on this?

There are hundreds of tasty foods out there which can be cooked and eaten without making animals suffer. This is the same as there are loads of decent warm materials to keep out the frost withour wearing seal pup fur!!

I think this Ben McKellar chef (who I have never heard of by the way, despite being somewhat of a foodie) is coming across as an arrogant piece of filth. He clearly has no idea that ALL foie gras birds suffer.

I strongly believe he is merely standing his ground because of an ego issue. He either has a small winky, or is so up his own anus and can not see the wood through the trees.

Either way, he clearly does not know what he is talking about and I really hope people boycott his premises until he sees fit. I also hope he poos a hedgehog!

Ben, I know you are reading this - your ego will not let you ignore it. For the sake of having just one less item on your menu help stop the needless torture of Gods creatures. Are you really that bad a chef, you can not accommodate anything else on your "award winning" menu?
Agree with you Leon, but you really should see someone about your fixation on body parts and functions
[quote][p][bold]LeonBIank666[/bold] wrote: I eat meat and hate being preached to by vegetarians. I also do not much care for the liberal left wingers who have never had a job and smell of tinkle. However, I love animals and believe this is possible even though I eat them. So where do I stand on this? There are hundreds of tasty foods out there which can be cooked and eaten without making animals suffer. This is the same as there are loads of decent warm materials to keep out the frost withour wearing seal pup fur!! I think this Ben McKellar chef (who I have never heard of by the way, despite being somewhat of a foodie) is coming across as an arrogant piece of filth. He clearly has no idea that ALL foie gras birds suffer. I strongly believe he is merely standing his ground because of an ego issue. He either has a small winky, or is so up his own anus and can not see the wood through the trees. Either way, he clearly does not know what he is talking about and I really hope people boycott his premises until he sees fit. I also hope he poos a hedgehog! Ben, I know you are reading this - your ego will not let you ignore it. For the sake of having just one less item on your menu help stop the needless torture of Gods creatures. Are you really that bad a chef, you can not accommodate anything else on your "award winning" menu?[/p][/quote]Agree with you Leon, but you really should see someone about your fixation on body parts and functions her professional

6:31pm Sat 21 Dec 13

KarenT says...

her professional wrote:
TheDrive wrote:
Well done campaigners. Keep it up. Cruelty is bad, whatever way you look at it.
Agree, but excellent point posted earlier re cheap chicken and kebab shops. Maybe it's time for food outlets to state whether their products are ethical/free range. some already do this, but if it was mandatory then at least we could make an informed choice.
One lame way of criticising protesting for a cause is to point out that there is no current "visible" protest going on with respect to another form of animal cruelty. Weak. There is already pressure being put upon these sorts of outlets, and attempts to reeducate the public so that they realise what it is they are eating... It's ALL wrong and cruel. Meat consumption of any sort is cruel, in my opinion. It's up to the public, given the information they are given, to make a choice. Protestors have no power to change anything, but they can inform and hopefully change the minds of the public who vote with £'s.
[quote][p][bold]her professional[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]TheDrive[/bold] wrote: Well done campaigners. Keep it up. Cruelty is bad, whatever way you look at it.[/p][/quote]Agree, but excellent point posted earlier re cheap chicken and kebab shops. Maybe it's time for food outlets to state whether their products are ethical/free range. some already do this, but if it was mandatory then at least we could make an informed choice.[/p][/quote]One lame way of criticising protesting for a cause is to point out that there is no current "visible" protest going on with respect to another form of animal cruelty. Weak. There is already pressure being put upon these sorts of outlets, and attempts to reeducate the public so that they realise what it is they are eating... It's ALL wrong and cruel. Meat consumption of any sort is cruel, in my opinion. It's up to the public, given the information they are given, to make a choice. Protestors have no power to change anything, but they can inform and hopefully change the minds of the public who vote with £'s. KarenT

8:14am Tue 24 Dec 13

Juleyanne says...

If so called foodie's thought as much about the production and welfare of their designer meats before it reaches their plate animal welfare will start to improve which is a step forward.
Does animal welfare have to become 'trendy' to appeal to their consciences and palates? It is the right thing to do!
If so called foodie's thought as much about the production and welfare of their designer meats before it reaches their plate animal welfare will start to improve which is a step forward. Does animal welfare have to become 'trendy' to appeal to their consciences and palates? It is the right thing to do! Juleyanne

12:21pm Fri 27 Dec 13

TheDrive says...

her professional wrote:
TheDrive wrote:
Well done campaigners. Keep it up. Cruelty is bad, whatever way you look at it.
Agree, but excellent point posted earlier re cheap chicken and kebab shops. Maybe it's time for food outlets to state whether their products are ethical/free range. some already do this, but if it was mandatory then at least we could make an informed choice.
I agree. And with the comment above. Had never considered where many places get their meat but now you mention it, it will obviously be price driven. If I had more imagination I think I'd give up meat altogether.
[quote][p][bold]her professional[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]TheDrive[/bold] wrote: Well done campaigners. Keep it up. Cruelty is bad, whatever way you look at it.[/p][/quote]Agree, but excellent point posted earlier re cheap chicken and kebab shops. Maybe it's time for food outlets to state whether their products are ethical/free range. some already do this, but if it was mandatory then at least we could make an informed choice.[/p][/quote]I agree. And with the comment above. Had never considered where many places get their meat but now you mention it, it will obviously be price driven. If I had more imagination I think I'd give up meat altogether. TheDrive

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