Free parking fails to pull crowds says Brighton and Hove City Council

The Argus: Free parking fails to pull crowds says council Free parking fails to pull crowds says council

Council bosses claim the city’s free festive parking cost taxpayers thousands of pounds – yet few took advantage of the scheme.

Shoppers in Brighton and Hove were treated to free parking at five council-owned car parks on the weekends of December 7 and 8, 14 and 15 and Sunday, December 23.

The decision followed a city council meeting in November, where local traders and campaigners said the move would boost business.

But town hall chiefs now say the move attracted just 206 extra vehicles in the first two weekends and lost taxpayers at least £32,000 in takings.


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The five car parks were Norton Road, Hove, and Brighton’s Trafalgar Street, High Street, London Road and Regency Square.

Brighton and Hove City Council said The Lanes car park, which has not been free, saw a large jump in numbers on the weekend of December 14 and 15.

It added that figures released covering the first two weekends show the scheme made “little if any impact”.

Figures are not yet available for last Sunday, December 23.

A council spokesman said: “Compared to numbers recorded on Saturday, November 30, and Sunday, December 1, when drivers had to pay, on December 7, London Road attracted 236 fewer cars than when drivers had to pay the previous Saturday.

It made modest gains of 32 cars and 89 cars on the first two free Sundays.

“Regency Square gained 32 cars on the first free Saturday followed by 25 on the first Sunday.

“Figures jumped on Sunday 15 by 308 cars.

“Trafalgar Street gained 68 cars on the first Saturday and 82 on the Sunday. It then dropped by 191 cars on Sunday 15.”

Council leader Jason Kitcat said he was pleased to hear shops were “doing well”, but said it wasn’t because of free parking as “so few took advantage”.

He said: “It’s more likely to be because of decent bus services as they have more passengers than ever.

“At a time of such financial shortage for councils, this seems like a terrible waste of money which has had little or no effect – certainly not an effect people can measure or prove.

“We need to get across the message that parking is only one variable dictating the success of local businesses. Compared to many places Brighton and Hove’s retail sector is hugely successful – because it is very good. We do not need to give away free parking.”

Comments (49)

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11:20am Fri 27 Dec 13

Take it Personally says...

They would say that, wouldn't they. - what next? Extortionate parking charges pull in the crowds?
They would say that, wouldn't they. - what next? Extortionate parking charges pull in the crowds? Take it Personally

11:22am Fri 27 Dec 13

Sir Prised says...

Probably because the people still went to Worthing, Eastbourne, Haywards Heath and Crawley. Getting into Brighton is a nightmare. Still, you've got all those thousands of cyclists to keep the shops going !
Probably because the people still went to Worthing, Eastbourne, Haywards Heath and Crawley. Getting into Brighton is a nightmare. Still, you've got all those thousands of cyclists to keep the shops going ! Sir Prised

11:23am Fri 27 Dec 13

southcoasting says...

It could have been better publicised. I wasn't aware of this.
It could have been better publicised. I wasn't aware of this. southcoasting

11:30am Fri 27 Dec 13

straightasadye says...

Sir Prised wrote:
Probably because the people still went to Worthing, Eastbourne, Haywards Heath and Crawley. Getting into Brighton is a nightmare. Still, you've got all those thousands of cyclists to keep the shops going !
BRILLIANT post.
[quote][p][bold]Sir Prised[/bold] wrote: Probably because the people still went to Worthing, Eastbourne, Haywards Heath and Crawley. Getting into Brighton is a nightmare. Still, you've got all those thousands of cyclists to keep the shops going ![/p][/quote]BRILLIANT post. straightasadye

11:46am Fri 27 Dec 13

Terry K says...

Shop online with free delivery, genuine bargains too, driving into multi stories is so old fashioned and costly.
Shop online with free delivery, genuine bargains too, driving into multi stories is so old fashioned and costly. Terry K

11:52am Fri 27 Dec 13

ourcoalition says...

Most expensive parking in central Brighton - NCP.

Bet they didn't take part!!! Don't see too much criticism of them on here, but they aren't "Green", of course!!!
Most expensive parking in central Brighton - NCP. Bet they didn't take part!!! Don't see too much criticism of them on here, but they aren't "Green", of course!!! ourcoalition

11:54am Fri 27 Dec 13

whatevernext2013 says...

i stopped shopping in the city centre a long time ago a few days free parking is far too little fat too late ,i spent my money on line and out of town ,the ones i feel sorry for is the shopkeepers that pay rates and rent all year round ,
i stopped shopping in the city centre a long time ago a few days free parking is far too little fat too late ,i spent my money on line and out of town ,the ones i feel sorry for is the shopkeepers that pay rates and rent all year round , whatevernext2013

11:57am Fri 27 Dec 13

hey mongo says...

Who on earth would park for free in london road to do there xmas shopping apart from ebeneezer scrooge...
Who on earth would park for free in london road to do there xmas shopping apart from ebeneezer scrooge... hey mongo

12:10pm Fri 27 Dec 13

PetertheGrate says...

southcoasting wrote:
It could have been better publicised. I wasn't aware of this.
How many people knew about the scheme? Were the free parking areas in the places that people wanted to go?
[quote][p][bold]southcoasting[/bold] wrote: It could have been better publicised. I wasn't aware of this.[/p][/quote]How many people knew about the scheme? Were the free parking areas in the places that people wanted to go? PetertheGrate

12:13pm Fri 27 Dec 13

Brightonlad86 says...

This was an obvious failure from day 1.

As a driver I have no problem paying for parking, if the parking cost is not extortionate. I am sure this view would be shared by the majority of motorists. However, because of the high parking costs throughout the year and the roads in and out of the city at gridlock, people have chosen to stay away.

Not a penny of my hard earned cash was spent in Brighton shops this Christmas as it is such a negative experience for drivers. The alternative of carrying heavy bags on a bus, bike or train isn't an attractive one. I'm almost certain many others feel the same and have stayed away as a result.
This was an obvious failure from day 1. As a driver I have no problem paying for parking, if the parking cost is not extortionate. I am sure this view would be shared by the majority of motorists. However, because of the high parking costs throughout the year and the roads in and out of the city at gridlock, people have chosen to stay away. Not a penny of my hard earned cash was spent in Brighton shops this Christmas as it is such a negative experience for drivers. The alternative of carrying heavy bags on a bus, bike or train isn't an attractive one. I'm almost certain many others feel the same and have stayed away as a result. Brightonlad86

12:24pm Fri 27 Dec 13

Brighton Living says...

What the council needs to understand is people already feel Brighton in a dump and when you add stupid bus lanes and 20 mph speed limits nobody can be bothered to stress with all the traffic and simply go to near by town like Eastbourne and Crawley Towns where it is very simple to get in and out and have a pleasant days shopping without drunks being on show that make you feel unconvertible. Put this with on line shopping and you know this would be the result, but will the council take any notice of what the people want NO they know better NOT! Step out the office every now and then to see what's going on and you will see Brighton is turning in to a town everybody thinks, bus lanes, buses, taxis, speed limits and drunks.
What the council needs to understand is people already feel Brighton in a dump and when you add stupid bus lanes and 20 mph speed limits nobody can be bothered to stress with all the traffic and simply go to near by town like Eastbourne and Crawley Towns where it is very simple to get in and out and have a pleasant days shopping without drunks being on show that make you feel unconvertible. Put this with on line shopping and you know this would be the result, but will the council take any notice of what the people want NO they know better NOT! Step out the office every now and then to see what's going on and you will see Brighton is turning in to a town everybody thinks, bus lanes, buses, taxis, speed limits and drunks. Brighton Living

12:37pm Fri 27 Dec 13

NickBtn says...

This really is a case of double standards for the greens. They disliked free parking and other parties forced it though. Now they produce statistics showing that it didn't work. Well if it wasn't being fully used the first week, why not publicise it more and get more people in? Why wait till the end and call it a failure? Playing politics again and not doing what is good for the city

Great quote in the article: "At a time of such financial shortage for councils, this seems like a terrible waste of money which has had little or no effect – certainly not an effect people can measure or prove". This is exactly the case for the current 20mph experiment (which has been done in a way with just signs which goes against government guidance and proven results elsewhere). Yet the green council didn't wait for any real evidence to extend the 20mph scheme, despite many residents and roads opposing.
This really is a case of double standards for the greens. They disliked free parking and other parties forced it though. Now they produce statistics showing that it didn't work. Well if it wasn't being fully used the first week, why not publicise it more and get more people in? Why wait till the end and call it a failure? Playing politics again and not doing what is good for the city Great quote in the article: "At a time of such financial shortage for councils, this seems like a terrible waste of money which has had little or no effect – certainly not an effect people can measure or prove". This is exactly the case for the current 20mph experiment (which has been done in a way with just signs which goes against government guidance and proven results elsewhere). Yet the green council didn't wait for any real evidence to extend the 20mph scheme, despite many residents and roads opposing. NickBtn

1:35pm Fri 27 Dec 13

RottingdeanRant says...

Like many on here have already said - too little too late. Many of us stopped going to Brighton to shop a long time ago and one short period with limited free parking is not going to change that. Many other local towns offer a much simpler and pleasant experience - especially for the motorist.
Like many on here have already said - too little too late. Many of us stopped going to Brighton to shop a long time ago and one short period with limited free parking is not going to change that. Many other local towns offer a much simpler and pleasant experience - especially for the motorist. RottingdeanRant

1:45pm Fri 27 Dec 13

Grumpy Old Cyclist says...

straightasadye wrote:
Sir Prised wrote:
Probably because the people still went to Worthing, Eastbourne, Haywards Heath and Crawley. Getting into Brighton is a nightmare. Still, you've got all those thousands of cyclists to keep the shops going !
BRILLIANT post.
Close all the roads to anything that has an internal combustion engine and let the pedestrians and cyclists have all the roads and pavements. This would solve the parking problem and the 20 mph issue and ensure the demise of the green slime and shut HJarrs up.
[quote][p][bold]straightasadye[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Sir Prised[/bold] wrote: Probably because the people still went to Worthing, Eastbourne, Haywards Heath and Crawley. Getting into Brighton is a nightmare. Still, you've got all those thousands of cyclists to keep the shops going ![/p][/quote]BRILLIANT post.[/p][/quote]Close all the roads to anything that has an internal combustion engine and let the pedestrians and cyclists have all the roads and pavements. This would solve the parking problem and the 20 mph issue and ensure the demise of the green slime and shut HJarrs up. Grumpy Old Cyclist

2:09pm Fri 27 Dec 13

the red head says...

They would say that. Don't they realise how much anger there is towards them? I dare them to stop twenty people in the street and ask 'how we doing?'
Go on kitkat, I dare you. And my! Don't you hate to lose money!!!

I took my mum into Brighton for Christmas shopping and we tried to park in a disabled area along western road. Three of the four cars there did not have disabled badges showing. We tried three different access roads and ended up on double yellow lines because of countless cars wrongly parked in disabled bays. On the way home we saw several wardens ticketing motorists in hove. Is this parking situation about law abiding or profit making? Tell me that kitkat... What's important to you? This town running smoothly and fairly? Or profit?
They would say that. Don't they realise how much anger there is towards them? I dare them to stop twenty people in the street and ask 'how we doing?' Go on kitkat, I dare you. And my! Don't you hate to lose money!!! I took my mum into Brighton for Christmas shopping and we tried to park in a disabled area along western road. Three of the four cars there did not have disabled badges showing. We tried three different access roads and ended up on double yellow lines because of countless cars wrongly parked in disabled bays. On the way home we saw several wardens ticketing motorists in hove. Is this parking situation about law abiding or profit making? Tell me that kitkat... What's important to you? This town running smoothly and fairly? Or profit? the red head

2:13pm Fri 27 Dec 13

the red head says...

Oh and the reason my mum doesn't drive herself is because she has severe bone deterioration and the many obstacles now on our roads, as well as the despicable lethargy of cyclists and pedestrian over the past year or so has made her terrified to do so. Without me to drive her she would be completely isolated. Do you want to strap her to a cycle or get her thrown about on a bus with a 10 minute agonising walk the other end?
Kitkat really does make my blood boil... As you may have noticed :)
Oh and the reason my mum doesn't drive herself is because she has severe bone deterioration and the many obstacles now on our roads, as well as the despicable lethargy of cyclists and pedestrian over the past year or so has made her terrified to do so. Without me to drive her she would be completely isolated. Do you want to strap her to a cycle or get her thrown about on a bus with a 10 minute agonising walk the other end? Kitkat really does make my blood boil... As you may have noticed :) the red head

3:21pm Fri 27 Dec 13

ronrostog says...

Who would come to this shithole now to shop? Anybody I know, unless they live in the town (sorry 'city') centre, clears off to Crawley or Eastbourne. Shitcat and his ilk will be toast come 2015. Thank god....
Who would come to this shithole now to shop? Anybody I know, unless they live in the town (sorry 'city') centre, clears off to Crawley or Eastbourne. Shitcat and his ilk will be toast come 2015. Thank god.... ronrostog

3:23pm Fri 27 Dec 13

Golfer69 says...

This was not advertised from the Greens but still numbers were up, but isn't it strange when the Greens want to show figures in their favour they use % when not they use numbers!!! Like one person in the street votes for 20mph no one else votes so it's 100% yes so what is the percentage the car parks were up please?
This was not advertised from the Greens but still numbers were up, but isn't it strange when the Greens want to show figures in their favour they use % when not they use numbers!!! Like one person in the street votes for 20mph no one else votes so it's 100% yes so what is the percentage the car parks were up please? Golfer69

3:56pm Fri 27 Dec 13

I'm H Jarrs and I can't stand cars! says...

Golfer69 wrote:
This was not advertised from the Greens but still numbers were up, but isn't it strange when the Greens want to show figures in their favour they use % when not they use numbers!!! Like one person in the street votes for 20mph no one else votes so it's 100% yes so what is the percentage the car parks were up please?
Naturally we will manipulate the numbers and the communication around these.

Why, why, why does anyone expect anything but misery from our council.

Bring on Brighton ghetto!
[quote][p][bold]Golfer69[/bold] wrote: This was not advertised from the Greens but still numbers were up, but isn't it strange when the Greens want to show figures in their favour they use % when not they use numbers!!! Like one person in the street votes for 20mph no one else votes so it's 100% yes so what is the percentage the car parks were up please?[/p][/quote]Naturally we will manipulate the numbers and the communication around these. Why, why, why does anyone expect anything but misery from our council. Bring on Brighton ghetto! I'm H Jarrs and I can't stand cars!

3:57pm Fri 27 Dec 13

supermom says...

I had heard about the free parking through someone I work with. But forgot as it wasn't very well advertised and it was all very last minute. A few weeks before Christmas I popped into brighton for a bit of shopping and lunch, i took around 3 hours maximum , cost me £6 in churchill sq car park. Consequently the rest of my christmas shopping was done online. The council will dismiss the offer and probably doctor the numbers as they voted against it. If it was more organised next year I think it will help the local traders, but it could do with more central car parks included too.
Incidentally the drop in numbers on Sunday 15 at trafalgar street could well have been due to the appalling weather we had that day. I remember as it was my sons birthday.
I had heard about the free parking through someone I work with. But forgot as it wasn't very well advertised and it was all very last minute. A few weeks before Christmas I popped into brighton for a bit of shopping and lunch, i took around 3 hours maximum , cost me £6 in churchill sq car park. Consequently the rest of my christmas shopping was done online. The council will dismiss the offer and probably doctor the numbers as they voted against it. If it was more organised next year I think it will help the local traders, but it could do with more central car parks included too. Incidentally the drop in numbers on Sunday 15 at trafalgar street could well have been due to the appalling weather we had that day. I remember as it was my sons birthday. supermom

4:08pm Fri 27 Dec 13

Joshiman says...

The Council have no experience whatsoever of traffic management,All they have done is cause traffic chaos /gridlock/angry and frustrated drivers/more exhaust fumes/stupid and frustrating traffic light sequencing.One road in and out of Brighton.New dim street lights.Increased parking charges/More expensive permits than anywhere else.The seafront traffic should be free flowing but its a nightmare because the traffic engineers are clueless.
The Council have no experience whatsoever of traffic management,All they have done is cause traffic chaos /gridlock/angry and frustrated drivers/more exhaust fumes/stupid and frustrating traffic light sequencing.One road in and out of Brighton.New dim street lights.Increased parking charges/More expensive permits than anywhere else.The seafront traffic should be free flowing but its a nightmare because the traffic engineers are clueless. Joshiman

5:04pm Fri 27 Dec 13

ourcoalition says...

Just a few points about the posts above.

The £6 in Churchill Square - not a Council Car Park, same as Church St - both privately run, therefore that can't be laid at the Greens door.

As for going to Eastbourne/Crawley/w
herever - fact is the Car Parks are full anyway in central Brighton at the weekend, and business in the City is doing well in comparison to other parts of the country (in the middle of a Government sponsored recession - and, yes, I know Osborne says its over, but it doesn't feel like that in my wages!).

Having lived in the town for over 50 years, I can't say it is worse now in general terms, under the Greens. The biggest destruction of Brighton was the 1980's, when the Hollingbury industrial (mostly engineering) saw the "exit" of several thousand jobs as a result of Thatchers policies. Want to blame someone, then hold that lot to account.
Just a few points about the posts above. The £6 in Churchill Square - not a Council Car Park, same as Church St - both privately run, therefore that can't be laid at the Greens door. As for going to Eastbourne/Crawley/w herever - fact is the Car Parks are full anyway in central Brighton at the weekend, and business in the City is doing well in comparison to other parts of the country (in the middle of a Government sponsored recession - and, yes, I know Osborne says its over, but it doesn't feel like that in my wages!). Having lived in the town for over 50 years, I can't say it is worse now in general terms, under the Greens. The biggest destruction of Brighton was the 1980's, when the Hollingbury industrial (mostly engineering) saw the "exit" of several thousand jobs as a result of Thatchers policies. Want to blame someone, then hold that lot to account. ourcoalition

5:36pm Fri 27 Dec 13

Numi says...

Many people who live outside Brighton wouldn't have been aware of this scheme. Was it advertised anywhere? Also, how would anyone know which carparks were in the scheme and which out before you actually join the queue to get in? Badly thought out, as usual. Brighton parking is ludicrously expensive, much better to go to Horsham or Chichester for shopping, though this year I braved Birmingham for the Christmas Market and was delighted to find that clean, well managed parking right in the city centre was £3 for a whole day at the weekend!
Many people who live outside Brighton wouldn't have been aware of this scheme. Was it advertised anywhere? Also, how would anyone know which carparks were in the scheme and which out before you actually join the queue to get in? Badly thought out, as usual. Brighton parking is ludicrously expensive, much better to go to Horsham or Chichester for shopping, though this year I braved Birmingham for the Christmas Market and was delighted to find that clean, well managed parking right in the city centre was £3 for a whole day at the weekend! Numi

7:04pm Fri 27 Dec 13

I'm H Jarrs and I can't stand cars! says...

I was just cycling back from dropping my vacuum off at the local 24 x 7 vacuum repair shop and happened upon a few motorists and took the opportunity to get their thoughts on the XMAS arrangements.

Without exception they all thought it was wrong to provide subsidies and wanted more bus lanes and cycle paths in the city.

Another great example of how the Green party are building our future.
I was just cycling back from dropping my vacuum off at the local 24 x 7 vacuum repair shop and happened upon a few motorists and took the opportunity to get their thoughts on the XMAS arrangements. Without exception they all thought it was wrong to provide subsidies and wanted more bus lanes and cycle paths in the city. Another great example of how the Green party are building our future. I'm H Jarrs and I can't stand cars!

7:19pm Fri 27 Dec 13

I'm H Jarrs and I can't stand cars! says...

ourcoalition wrote:
Just a few points about the posts above.

The £6 in Churchill Square - not a Council Car Park, same as Church St - both privately run, therefore that can't be laid at the Greens door.

As for going to Eastbourne/Crawley/w

herever - fact is the Car Parks are full anyway in central Brighton at the weekend, and business in the City is doing well in comparison to other parts of the country (in the middle of a Government sponsored recession - and, yes, I know Osborne says its over, but it doesn't feel like that in my wages!).

Having lived in the town for over 50 years, I can't say it is worse now in general terms, under the Greens. The biggest destruction of Brighton was the 1980's, when the Hollingbury industrial (mostly engineering) saw the "exit" of several thousand jobs as a result of Thatchers policies. Want to blame someone, then hold that lot to account.
No wonder that the vast majority of working people do not wish to join a trade union.

I think I may have seen your double on Carry on at Your Convenience today...you know what I am suggesting.
[quote][p][bold]ourcoalition[/bold] wrote: Just a few points about the posts above. The £6 in Churchill Square - not a Council Car Park, same as Church St - both privately run, therefore that can't be laid at the Greens door. As for going to Eastbourne/Crawley/w herever - fact is the Car Parks are full anyway in central Brighton at the weekend, and business in the City is doing well in comparison to other parts of the country (in the middle of a Government sponsored recession - and, yes, I know Osborne says its over, but it doesn't feel like that in my wages!). Having lived in the town for over 50 years, I can't say it is worse now in general terms, under the Greens. The biggest destruction of Brighton was the 1980's, when the Hollingbury industrial (mostly engineering) saw the "exit" of several thousand jobs as a result of Thatchers policies. Want to blame someone, then hold that lot to account.[/p][/quote]No wonder that the vast majority of working people do not wish to join a trade union. I think I may have seen your double on Carry on at Your Convenience today...you know what I am suggesting. I'm H Jarrs and I can't stand cars!

7:20pm Fri 27 Dec 13

BrightonHoveboy says...

People left Brighton behind a couple of years ago. It's dead now. Thanks to these green commies who have forced things through like "swampies" that they are. Brighton and Hove is dead. Thanks to the greens for increased pollution, congestion, expense and agravation
People left Brighton behind a couple of years ago. It's dead now. Thanks to these green commies who have forced things through like "swampies" that they are. Brighton and Hove is dead. Thanks to the greens for increased pollution, congestion, expense and agravation BrightonHoveboy

7:21pm Fri 27 Dec 13

her professional says...

Numi wrote:
Many people who live outside Brighton wouldn't have been aware of this scheme. Was it advertised anywhere? Also, how would anyone know which carparks were in the scheme and which out before you actually join the queue to get in? Badly thought out, as usual. Brighton parking is ludicrously expensive, much better to go to Horsham or Chichester for shopping, though this year I braved Birmingham for the Christmas Market and was delighted to find that clean, well managed parking right in the city centre was £3 for a whole day at the weekend!
Yes, and I popped over to Clacton for my shopping, loads of free parking and at least six shops still open, proves the Greens are rubbish.
[quote][p][bold]Numi[/bold] wrote: Many people who live outside Brighton wouldn't have been aware of this scheme. Was it advertised anywhere? Also, how would anyone know which carparks were in the scheme and which out before you actually join the queue to get in? Badly thought out, as usual. Brighton parking is ludicrously expensive, much better to go to Horsham or Chichester for shopping, though this year I braved Birmingham for the Christmas Market and was delighted to find that clean, well managed parking right in the city centre was £3 for a whole day at the weekend![/p][/quote]Yes, and I popped over to Clacton for my shopping, loads of free parking and at least six shops still open, proves the Greens are rubbish. her professional

7:35pm Fri 27 Dec 13

Idontbelieveit1948 says...

Not quite sure what Kitcat thinks any of this proves.

It might have escaped his notice but a car park doesn't miraculously gain spaces simply because the spaces it does have are offered free for a few weekends, so getting more cars in is not a given. Indeed those who went in may well have stayed for longer and consequently spent more locally than they otherwise would have done.

Has he tried asking the traders to help quantify benefits.

He has also clearly forgotten the benefits received by those who did take up the free parking but as he is just another petty, money grabbing, local authority Scrooge he didn't want to give anything back to the council taxpayers he so clearly despises.

No doubt, as I write, he and his fellow Green misers are thinking up yet more ways to screw money out of us on a daily basis.
Not quite sure what Kitcat thinks any of this proves. It might have escaped his notice but a car park doesn't miraculously gain spaces simply because the spaces it does have are offered free for a few weekends, so getting more cars in is not a given. Indeed those who went in may well have stayed for longer and consequently spent more locally than they otherwise would have done. Has he tried asking the traders to help quantify benefits. He has also clearly forgotten the benefits received by those who did take up the free parking but as he is just another petty, money grabbing, local authority Scrooge he didn't want to give anything back to the council taxpayers he so clearly despises. No doubt, as I write, he and his fellow Green misers are thinking up yet more ways to screw money out of us on a daily basis. Idontbelieveit1948

10:37pm Fri 27 Dec 13

FatherTed11 says...

If so few used the spaces, how did it cost tax payers thousands of pounds?
If so few used the spaces, how did it cost tax payers thousands of pounds? FatherTed11

10:51pm Fri 27 Dec 13

Pebbles says...

Christmas free parking in Brighton and Hove: a disgraceful and misleading press release December 24, 2013 · by Neil Schofield

(NB since this blog post was written, the press notice has been taken down from the Brighton and Hove Council website. However I managed to screengrab it and it can be found here )

On Christmas Eve, when the rest of the world is winding down towards the holiday break, Brighton and Hove Council have published a press release claiming that the experiment of free parking in the City on the Sundays before Christmas has cost council tax payers £155 for each car attracted.

It’s a disgraceful, partisan and poorly-argued piece of work that will only discredit the case of those (of whom I am one) who opposed free parking on those dates.

First, it recognises that the figures are not yet available for what it calls Sunday 23 December (22 December, I presume) – likely to be the busiest and most significant day.

It then argues that fewer cars were using the car-parks than had done so on the weekend before the free parking became available; it then quotes numbers of additional vehicles using the car parks on subsequent sundays – but without any context (what is the normal level of usage? What does this tell us about how long vehicles stay, which is just as significant as the numbers?) And then it quotes average takings from the car parks per day in December, which of course does not tell us anything significant about the particular Sundays on which the car parks were free. Most of all, the bulk of the costs are deemed to arise from untaken on-street parking places – but there has never been any real evidence that this is an issue.

The most important indicators of the success or otherwise of the policy are in any case comparative. Was what happened in Brighton and Hove any different from towns where there was no free parking? Did the city buck national trends? And of course you can’t know that until you know what has happened elsewhere.

Crucially, the press release tells us nothing about the benefits. Council leader Jason Kitcat is quoted as making a number of statements; that shops appeared to be doing well, that Brighton didn’t need to give away parking to get shoppers into the centre, and so on. None of this is very meaningful either; it’s anecdotal and there’s the world of difference between footfall and spending. And leave the busiest weekend of the Christmas rush out of this and you have no basis for making any of those assertions.

My own belief remains that the impacts are likely to be marginal at best; but I don’t know that, and the simple fact is that the administration doesn’t either. As I have argued before, the effects are likely to get lost in the general economic noise and I am not aware of any real process of appraisal being put in place to assess such benefits as there might be.

But most of all I am concerned by the propriety of using a press notice of this type, published on Christmas Eve and full of unevidenced and unconnected assertions, in such a blatantly political way – at a time when you simply cannot present a full picture of the effects of the policy. It’s clumsy and it’s improper; the Council should wait until all the evidence is available and should be seeking to present a full and proper account of events. The irony is that I would have expected that kind of appraisal to show that the policy didn’t actually achieve very much; but by jumping the gun and politicising the appraisal of the scheme like this, the administration has actually damaged its own credibility. It smacks of panic and desperation.

The way this press release has been issued raises some significant questions of abuse of process. And as transport policy in this city is important, it’s hugely disappointing that this partisan and premature press release should have made building consensus towards a rational policy more, not less, difficult.

http://notesbrokenso
ciety.wordpress.com/
2013/12/24/christmas
-free-parking-in-bri
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graceful-and-mislead
ing-press-release/
Christmas free parking in Brighton and Hove: a disgraceful and misleading press release December 24, 2013 · by Neil Schofield (NB since this blog post was written, the press notice has been taken down from the Brighton and Hove Council website. However I managed to screengrab it and it can be found here ) On Christmas Eve, when the rest of the world is winding down towards the holiday break, Brighton and Hove Council have published a press release claiming that the experiment of free parking in the City on the Sundays before Christmas has cost council tax payers £155 for each car attracted. It’s a disgraceful, partisan and poorly-argued piece of work that will only discredit the case of those (of whom I am one) who opposed free parking on those dates. First, it recognises that the figures are not yet available for what it calls Sunday 23 December (22 December, I presume) – likely to be the busiest and most significant day. It then argues that fewer cars were using the car-parks than had done so on the weekend before the free parking became available; it then quotes numbers of additional vehicles using the car parks on subsequent sundays – but without any context (what is the normal level of usage? What does this tell us about how long vehicles stay, which is just as significant as the numbers?) And then it quotes average takings from the car parks per day in December, which of course does not tell us anything significant about the particular Sundays on which the car parks were free. Most of all, the bulk of the costs are deemed to arise from untaken on-street parking places – but there has never been any real evidence that this is an issue. The most important indicators of the success or otherwise of the policy are in any case comparative. Was what happened in Brighton and Hove any different from towns where there was no free parking? Did the city buck national trends? And of course you can’t know that until you know what has happened elsewhere. Crucially, the press release tells us nothing about the benefits. Council leader Jason Kitcat is quoted as making a number of statements; that shops appeared to be doing well, that Brighton didn’t need to give away parking to get shoppers into the centre, and so on. None of this is very meaningful either; it’s anecdotal and there’s the world of difference between footfall and spending. And leave the busiest weekend of the Christmas rush out of this and you have no basis for making any of those assertions. My own belief remains that the impacts are likely to be marginal at best; but I don’t know that, and the simple fact is that the administration doesn’t either. As I have argued before, the effects are likely to get lost in the general economic noise and I am not aware of any real process of appraisal being put in place to assess such benefits as there might be. But most of all I am concerned by the propriety of using a press notice of this type, published on Christmas Eve and full of unevidenced and unconnected assertions, in such a blatantly political way – at a time when you simply cannot present a full picture of the effects of the policy. It’s clumsy and it’s improper; the Council should wait until all the evidence is available and should be seeking to present a full and proper account of events. The irony is that I would have expected that kind of appraisal to show that the policy didn’t actually achieve very much; but by jumping the gun and politicising the appraisal of the scheme like this, the administration has actually damaged its own credibility. It smacks of panic and desperation. The way this press release has been issued raises some significant questions of abuse of process. And as transport policy in this city is important, it’s hugely disappointing that this partisan and premature press release should have made building consensus towards a rational policy more, not less, difficult. http://notesbrokenso ciety.wordpress.com/ 2013/12/24/christmas -free-parking-in-bri ghton-and-hove-a-dis graceful-and-mislead ing-press-release/ Pebbles

3:04am Sat 28 Dec 13

Gribbet says...

This won't come as a surprise to anyone apart from the Lab/Con alliance that forced the idea through for good pre-xmas PR.
This won't come as a surprise to anyone apart from the Lab/Con alliance that forced the idea through for good pre-xmas PR. Gribbet

9:41am Sat 28 Dec 13

ARMANA says...

I'm H Jarrs and I can't stand cars! wrote:
Golfer69 wrote:
This was not advertised from the Greens but still numbers were up, but isn't it strange when the Greens want to show figures in their favour they use % when not they use numbers!!! Like one person in the street votes for 20mph no one else votes so it's 100% yes so what is the percentage the car parks were up please?
Naturally we will manipulate the numbers and the communication around these.

Why, why, why does anyone expect anything but misery from our council.

Bring on Brighton ghetto!
Usual Crap ,from Gatling Gob,
[quote][p][bold]I'm H Jarrs and I can't stand cars![/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Golfer69[/bold] wrote: This was not advertised from the Greens but still numbers were up, but isn't it strange when the Greens want to show figures in their favour they use % when not they use numbers!!! Like one person in the street votes for 20mph no one else votes so it's 100% yes so what is the percentage the car parks were up please?[/p][/quote]Naturally we will manipulate the numbers and the communication around these. Why, why, why does anyone expect anything but misery from our council. Bring on Brighton ghetto![/p][/quote]Usual Crap ,from Gatling Gob, ARMANA

9:43am Sat 28 Dec 13

ARMANA says...

I'm H Jarrs and I can't stand cars! wrote:
I was just cycling back from dropping my vacuum off at the local 24 x 7 vacuum repair shop and happened upon a few motorists and took the opportunity to get their thoughts on the XMAS arrangements.

Without exception they all thought it was wrong to provide subsidies and wanted more bus lanes and cycle paths in the city.

Another great example of how the Green party are building our future.
Even more Crap, from Gatling Gob, !!!!
[quote][p][bold]I'm H Jarrs and I can't stand cars![/bold] wrote: I was just cycling back from dropping my vacuum off at the local 24 x 7 vacuum repair shop and happened upon a few motorists and took the opportunity to get their thoughts on the XMAS arrangements. Without exception they all thought it was wrong to provide subsidies and wanted more bus lanes and cycle paths in the city. Another great example of how the Green party are building our future.[/p][/quote]Even more Crap, from Gatling Gob, !!!! ARMANA

9:46am Sat 28 Dec 13

ARMANA says...

I'm H Jarrs and I can't stand cars! wrote:
ourcoalition wrote:
Just a few points about the posts above.

The £6 in Churchill Square - not a Council Car Park, same as Church St - both privately run, therefore that can't be laid at the Greens door.

As for going to Eastbourne/Crawley/w


herever - fact is the Car Parks are full anyway in central Brighton at the weekend, and business in the City is doing well in comparison to other parts of the country (in the middle of a Government sponsored recession - and, yes, I know Osborne says its over, but it doesn't feel like that in my wages!).

Having lived in the town for over 50 years, I can't say it is worse now in general terms, under the Greens. The biggest destruction of Brighton was the 1980's, when the Hollingbury industrial (mostly engineering) saw the "exit" of several thousand jobs as a result of Thatchers policies. Want to blame someone, then hold that lot to account.
No wonder that the vast majority of working people do not wish to join a trade union.

I think I may have seen your double on Carry on at Your Convenience today...you know what I am suggesting.
He likes public toilets, !!
[quote][p][bold]I'm H Jarrs and I can't stand cars![/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]ourcoalition[/bold] wrote: Just a few points about the posts above. The £6 in Churchill Square - not a Council Car Park, same as Church St - both privately run, therefore that can't be laid at the Greens door. As for going to Eastbourne/Crawley/w herever - fact is the Car Parks are full anyway in central Brighton at the weekend, and business in the City is doing well in comparison to other parts of the country (in the middle of a Government sponsored recession - and, yes, I know Osborne says its over, but it doesn't feel like that in my wages!). Having lived in the town for over 50 years, I can't say it is worse now in general terms, under the Greens. The biggest destruction of Brighton was the 1980's, when the Hollingbury industrial (mostly engineering) saw the "exit" of several thousand jobs as a result of Thatchers policies. Want to blame someone, then hold that lot to account.[/p][/quote]No wonder that the vast majority of working people do not wish to join a trade union. I think I may have seen your double on Carry on at Your Convenience today...you know what I am suggesting.[/p][/quote]He likes public toilets, !! ARMANA

12:03pm Sat 28 Dec 13

Don Pedro says...

The Green council were careful not to widely publicise this 'Christmas Parking Offer' since they had no intention of it being a success!
The Green council were careful not to widely publicise this 'Christmas Parking Offer' since they had no intention of it being a success! Don Pedro

12:06pm Sat 28 Dec 13

magic_chimp says...

We saw Scrooge at the Brighton Centre on the 23rd Dec.
Our friends from out of town came too and parked at the North Road NCP - they really enjoyed the pre show meal and the show itself but weren't overjoyed when they got back to the car to find that it was £25 to pay on the ticket for 5 hours parking.
Welcome to Brighton!
We saw Scrooge at the Brighton Centre on the 23rd Dec. Our friends from out of town came too and parked at the North Road NCP - they really enjoyed the pre show meal and the show itself but weren't overjoyed when they got back to the car to find that it was £25 to pay on the ticket for 5 hours parking. Welcome to Brighton! magic_chimp

12:07pm Sat 28 Dec 13

magic_chimp says...

We saw Scrooge at the Brighton Centre on the 23rd Dec.
Our friends from out of town came too and parked at the North Road NCP - they really enjoyed the pre show meal and the show itself but weren't overjoyed when they got back to the car to find that it was £25 to pay on the ticket for 5 hours parking.
Welcome to Brighton!
We saw Scrooge at the Brighton Centre on the 23rd Dec. Our friends from out of town came too and parked at the North Road NCP - they really enjoyed the pre show meal and the show itself but weren't overjoyed when they got back to the car to find that it was £25 to pay on the ticket for 5 hours parking. Welcome to Brighton! magic_chimp

12:45pm Sat 28 Dec 13

makoshark says...

ourcoalition wrote:
Just a few points about the posts above.

The £6 in Churchill Square - not a Council Car Park, same as Church St - both privately run, therefore that can't be laid at the Greens door.

As for going to Eastbourne/Crawley/w

herever - fact is the Car Parks are full anyway in central Brighton at the weekend, and business in the City is doing well in comparison to other parts of the country (in the middle of a Government sponsored recession - and, yes, I know Osborne says its over, but it doesn't feel like that in my wages!).

Having lived in the town for over 50 years, I can't say it is worse now in general terms, under the Greens. The biggest destruction of Brighton was the 1980's, when the Hollingbury industrial (mostly engineering) saw the "exit" of several thousand jobs as a result of Thatchers policies. Want to blame someone, then hold that lot to account.
Out of interest... which Hollingbury engineering / technological companies exited because of Thatcher policies?
KTM had over £6Million injected by the Tory government and even had a merger with Vickers in an attempt to save a company failing through lack of development
ITT Creed pulled out of three locations in the UK due to the US parent company deciding upon fiscal reductions
Wade Engineering was acquired by Howden Engineering who decided to relocate to another home counties region where they had spare capacity.
Chubb Locks simply had to find alternative methods of competing with cheaper competition (again through a lack of development investment...)
What other majors have I missed... must be one or two I suspect
[quote][p][bold]ourcoalition[/bold] wrote: Just a few points about the posts above. The £6 in Churchill Square - not a Council Car Park, same as Church St - both privately run, therefore that can't be laid at the Greens door. As for going to Eastbourne/Crawley/w herever - fact is the Car Parks are full anyway in central Brighton at the weekend, and business in the City is doing well in comparison to other parts of the country (in the middle of a Government sponsored recession - and, yes, I know Osborne says its over, but it doesn't feel like that in my wages!). Having lived in the town for over 50 years, I can't say it is worse now in general terms, under the Greens. The biggest destruction of Brighton was the 1980's, when the Hollingbury industrial (mostly engineering) saw the "exit" of several thousand jobs as a result of Thatchers policies. Want to blame someone, then hold that lot to account.[/p][/quote]Out of interest... which Hollingbury engineering / technological companies exited because of Thatcher policies? KTM had over £6Million injected by the Tory government and even had a merger with Vickers in an attempt to save a company failing through lack of development ITT Creed pulled out of three locations in the UK due to the US parent company deciding upon fiscal reductions Wade Engineering was acquired by Howden Engineering who decided to relocate to another home counties region where they had spare capacity. Chubb Locks simply had to find alternative methods of competing with cheaper competition (again through a lack of development investment...) What other majors have I missed... must be one or two I suspect makoshark

12:46pm Sat 28 Dec 13

makoshark says...

ourcoalition wrote:
Just a few points about the posts above.

The £6 in Churchill Square - not a Council Car Park, same as Church St - both privately run, therefore that can't be laid at the Greens door.

As for going to Eastbourne/Crawley/w

herever - fact is the Car Parks are full anyway in central Brighton at the weekend, and business in the City is doing well in comparison to other parts of the country (in the middle of a Government sponsored recession - and, yes, I know Osborne says its over, but it doesn't feel like that in my wages!).

Having lived in the town for over 50 years, I can't say it is worse now in general terms, under the Greens. The biggest destruction of Brighton was the 1980's, when the Hollingbury industrial (mostly engineering) saw the "exit" of several thousand jobs as a result of Thatchers policies. Want to blame someone, then hold that lot to account.
Out of interest... which Hollingbury engineering / technological companies exited because of Thatcher policies?
KTM had over £6Million injected by the Tory government and even had a merger with Vickers in an attempt to save a company failing through lack of development
ITT Creed pulled out of three locations in the UK due to the US parent company deciding upon fiscal reductions
Wade Engineering was acquired by Howden Engineering who decided to relocate to another home counties region where they had spare capacity.
Chubb Locks simply had to find alternative methods of competing with cheaper competition (again through a lack of development investment...)
What other majors have I missed... must be one or two I suspect!
[quote][p][bold]ourcoalition[/bold] wrote: Just a few points about the posts above. The £6 in Churchill Square - not a Council Car Park, same as Church St - both privately run, therefore that can't be laid at the Greens door. As for going to Eastbourne/Crawley/w herever - fact is the Car Parks are full anyway in central Brighton at the weekend, and business in the City is doing well in comparison to other parts of the country (in the middle of a Government sponsored recession - and, yes, I know Osborne says its over, but it doesn't feel like that in my wages!). Having lived in the town for over 50 years, I can't say it is worse now in general terms, under the Greens. The biggest destruction of Brighton was the 1980's, when the Hollingbury industrial (mostly engineering) saw the "exit" of several thousand jobs as a result of Thatchers policies. Want to blame someone, then hold that lot to account.[/p][/quote]Out of interest... which Hollingbury engineering / technological companies exited because of Thatcher policies? KTM had over £6Million injected by the Tory government and even had a merger with Vickers in an attempt to save a company failing through lack of development ITT Creed pulled out of three locations in the UK due to the US parent company deciding upon fiscal reductions Wade Engineering was acquired by Howden Engineering who decided to relocate to another home counties region where they had spare capacity. Chubb Locks simply had to find alternative methods of competing with cheaper competition (again through a lack of development investment...) What other majors have I missed... must be one or two I suspect! makoshark

2:04pm Sat 28 Dec 13

Maxwell's Ghost says...

Read the comments on the forums for Brighton and Hove on Tripadvisor.
There are some common themes about being ripped off here by parking and other issues in the city.
The odd comment could be considered sour grapes but the world stage is now reading common themes about the town which could be putting off thousands of visitors.
This will probably be dismissed by the arrogant Greens as unimportant, but tourism chiefs take this platform as a serious channel of communication and our city needs to address the growing poor perception of the town. The same with the national media. To be listed as expensive as Kensington and Chelsea is not good.
It will be harder to turn around a negative reputation further down the road.
Read the comments on the forums for Brighton and Hove on Tripadvisor. There are some common themes about being ripped off here by parking and other issues in the city. The odd comment could be considered sour grapes but the world stage is now reading common themes about the town which could be putting off thousands of visitors. This will probably be dismissed by the arrogant Greens as unimportant, but tourism chiefs take this platform as a serious channel of communication and our city needs to address the growing poor perception of the town. The same with the national media. To be listed as expensive as Kensington and Chelsea is not good. It will be harder to turn around a negative reputation further down the road. Maxwell's Ghost

2:58pm Sat 28 Dec 13

LargeAndInCharge says...

ronrostog wrote:
Who would come to this shithole now to shop? Anybody I know, unless they live in the town (sorry 'city') centre, clears off to Crawley or Eastbourne. Shitcat and his ilk will be toast come 2015. Thank god....
I live in Brighton but I always shop in Crawley these days. Have done for the last 6 yrs now. Says it all really.
[quote][p][bold]ronrostog[/bold] wrote: Who would come to this shithole now to shop? Anybody I know, unless they live in the town (sorry 'city') centre, clears off to Crawley or Eastbourne. Shitcat and his ilk will be toast come 2015. Thank god....[/p][/quote]I live in Brighton but I always shop in Crawley these days. Have done for the last 6 yrs now. Says it all really. LargeAndInCharge

2:59pm Sat 28 Dec 13

Mr.Logical1 says...

NickBtn wrote:
This really is a case of double standards for the greens. They disliked free parking and other parties forced it though. Now they produce statistics showing that it didn't work. Well if it wasn't being fully used the first week, why not publicise it more and get more people in? Why wait till the end and call it a failure? Playing politics again and not doing what is good for the city

Great quote in the article: "At a time of such financial shortage for councils, this seems like a terrible waste of money which has had little or no effect – certainly not an effect people can measure or prove". This is exactly the case for the current 20mph experiment (which has been done in a way with just signs which goes against government guidance and proven results elsewhere). Yet the green council didn't wait for any real evidence to extend the 20mph scheme, despite many residents and roads opposing.
And spending millions on bus lanes and the Seven Dials roundabout when a much much cheaper option would have sufficed...that's not a waste of money is it??
[quote][p][bold]NickBtn[/bold] wrote: This really is a case of double standards for the greens. They disliked free parking and other parties forced it though. Now they produce statistics showing that it didn't work. Well if it wasn't being fully used the first week, why not publicise it more and get more people in? Why wait till the end and call it a failure? Playing politics again and not doing what is good for the city Great quote in the article: "At a time of such financial shortage for councils, this seems like a terrible waste of money which has had little or no effect – certainly not an effect people can measure or prove". This is exactly the case for the current 20mph experiment (which has been done in a way with just signs which goes against government guidance and proven results elsewhere). Yet the green council didn't wait for any real evidence to extend the 20mph scheme, despite many residents and roads opposing.[/p][/quote]And spending millions on bus lanes and the Seven Dials roundabout when a much much cheaper option would have sufficed...that's not a waste of money is it?? Mr.Logical1

8:30pm Sat 28 Dec 13

I'm H Jarrs and I can't stand cars! says...

ARMANA wrote:
I'm H Jarrs and I can't stand cars! wrote:
ourcoalition wrote:
Just a few points about the posts above.

The £6 in Churchill Square - not a Council Car Park, same as Church St - both privately run, therefore that can't be laid at the Greens door.

As for going to Eastbourne/Crawley/w



herever - fact is the Car Parks are full anyway in central Brighton at the weekend, and business in the City is doing well in comparison to other parts of the country (in the middle of a Government sponsored recession - and, yes, I know Osborne says its over, but it doesn't feel like that in my wages!).

Having lived in the town for over 50 years, I can't say it is worse now in general terms, under the Greens. The biggest destruction of Brighton was the 1980's, when the Hollingbury industrial (mostly engineering) saw the "exit" of several thousand jobs as a result of Thatchers policies. Want to blame someone, then hold that lot to account.
No wonder that the vast majority of working people do not wish to join a trade union.

I think I may have seen your double on Carry on at Your Convenience today...you know what I am suggesting.
He likes public toilets, !!
Sore backside Arseboy? Too much backdoor action for you you T055ER
[quote][p][bold]ARMANA[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]I'm H Jarrs and I can't stand cars![/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]ourcoalition[/bold] wrote: Just a few points about the posts above. The £6 in Churchill Square - not a Council Car Park, same as Church St - both privately run, therefore that can't be laid at the Greens door. As for going to Eastbourne/Crawley/w herever - fact is the Car Parks are full anyway in central Brighton at the weekend, and business in the City is doing well in comparison to other parts of the country (in the middle of a Government sponsored recession - and, yes, I know Osborne says its over, but it doesn't feel like that in my wages!). Having lived in the town for over 50 years, I can't say it is worse now in general terms, under the Greens. The biggest destruction of Brighton was the 1980's, when the Hollingbury industrial (mostly engineering) saw the "exit" of several thousand jobs as a result of Thatchers policies. Want to blame someone, then hold that lot to account.[/p][/quote]No wonder that the vast majority of working people do not wish to join a trade union. I think I may have seen your double on Carry on at Your Convenience today...you know what I am suggesting.[/p][/quote]He likes public toilets, !![/p][/quote]Sore backside Arseboy? Too much backdoor action for you you T055ER I'm H Jarrs and I can't stand cars!

8:37pm Sat 28 Dec 13

sussexlad says...

Went to crawley last Sunday was surprised at the £2 all day parking NCP take note
Went to crawley last Sunday was surprised at the £2 all day parking NCP take note sussexlad

9:42pm Sat 28 Dec 13

ARMANA says...

I'm H Jarrs and I can't stand cars! wrote:
ARMANA wrote:
I'm H Jarrs and I can't stand cars! wrote:
ourcoalition wrote:
Just a few points about the posts above.

The £6 in Churchill Square - not a Council Car Park, same as Church St - both privately run, therefore that can't be laid at the Greens door.

As for going to Eastbourne/Crawley/w




herever - fact is the Car Parks are full anyway in central Brighton at the weekend, and business in the City is doing well in comparison to other parts of the country (in the middle of a Government sponsored recession - and, yes, I know Osborne says its over, but it doesn't feel like that in my wages!).

Having lived in the town for over 50 years, I can't say it is worse now in general terms, under the Greens. The biggest destruction of Brighton was the 1980's, when the Hollingbury industrial (mostly engineering) saw the "exit" of several thousand jobs as a result of Thatchers policies. Want to blame someone, then hold that lot to account.
No wonder that the vast majority of working people do not wish to join a trade union.

I think I may have seen your double on Carry on at Your Convenience today...you know what I am suggesting.
He likes public toilets, !!
Sore backside Arseboy? Too much backdoor action for you you T055ER
Your the expert there Gatling Gob, !!
[quote][p][bold]I'm H Jarrs and I can't stand cars![/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]ARMANA[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]I'm H Jarrs and I can't stand cars![/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]ourcoalition[/bold] wrote: Just a few points about the posts above. The £6 in Churchill Square - not a Council Car Park, same as Church St - both privately run, therefore that can't be laid at the Greens door. As for going to Eastbourne/Crawley/w herever - fact is the Car Parks are full anyway in central Brighton at the weekend, and business in the City is doing well in comparison to other parts of the country (in the middle of a Government sponsored recession - and, yes, I know Osborne says its over, but it doesn't feel like that in my wages!). Having lived in the town for over 50 years, I can't say it is worse now in general terms, under the Greens. The biggest destruction of Brighton was the 1980's, when the Hollingbury industrial (mostly engineering) saw the "exit" of several thousand jobs as a result of Thatchers policies. Want to blame someone, then hold that lot to account.[/p][/quote]No wonder that the vast majority of working people do not wish to join a trade union. I think I may have seen your double on Carry on at Your Convenience today...you know what I am suggesting.[/p][/quote]He likes public toilets, !![/p][/quote]Sore backside Arseboy? Too much backdoor action for you you T055ER[/p][/quote]Your the expert there Gatling Gob, !! ARMANA

7:25pm Sun 29 Dec 13

I'm H Jarrs and I can't stand cars! says...

ARMANA wrote:
I'm H Jarrs and I can't stand cars! wrote:
ARMANA wrote:
I'm H Jarrs and I can't stand cars! wrote:
ourcoalition wrote:
Just a few points about the posts above.

The £6 in Churchill Square - not a Council Car Park, same as Church St - both privately run, therefore that can't be laid at the Greens door.

As for going to Eastbourne/Crawley/w





herever - fact is the Car Parks are full anyway in central Brighton at the weekend, and business in the City is doing well in comparison to other parts of the country (in the middle of a Government sponsored recession - and, yes, I know Osborne says its over, but it doesn't feel like that in my wages!).

Having lived in the town for over 50 years, I can't say it is worse now in general terms, under the Greens. The biggest destruction of Brighton was the 1980's, when the Hollingbury industrial (mostly engineering) saw the "exit" of several thousand jobs as a result of Thatchers policies. Want to blame someone, then hold that lot to account.
No wonder that the vast majority of working people do not wish to join a trade union.

I think I may have seen your double on Carry on at Your Convenience today...you know what I am suggesting.
He likes public toilets, !!
Sore backside Arseboy? Too much backdoor action for you you T055ER
Your the expert there Gatling Gob, !!
Au contrare Areseboy, au contrare!

I think you are the maestro when it comes to backdoor stuff

It seems that you take great delight in posting on this site because of your deviance. If that is not the case, prove it....ferret!
[quote][p][bold]ARMANA[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]I'm H Jarrs and I can't stand cars![/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]ARMANA[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]I'm H Jarrs and I can't stand cars![/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]ourcoalition[/bold] wrote: Just a few points about the posts above. The £6 in Churchill Square - not a Council Car Park, same as Church St - both privately run, therefore that can't be laid at the Greens door. As for going to Eastbourne/Crawley/w herever - fact is the Car Parks are full anyway in central Brighton at the weekend, and business in the City is doing well in comparison to other parts of the country (in the middle of a Government sponsored recession - and, yes, I know Osborne says its over, but it doesn't feel like that in my wages!). Having lived in the town for over 50 years, I can't say it is worse now in general terms, under the Greens. The biggest destruction of Brighton was the 1980's, when the Hollingbury industrial (mostly engineering) saw the "exit" of several thousand jobs as a result of Thatchers policies. Want to blame someone, then hold that lot to account.[/p][/quote]No wonder that the vast majority of working people do not wish to join a trade union. I think I may have seen your double on Carry on at Your Convenience today...you know what I am suggesting.[/p][/quote]He likes public toilets, !![/p][/quote]Sore backside Arseboy? Too much backdoor action for you you T055ER[/p][/quote]Your the expert there Gatling Gob, !![/p][/quote]Au contrare Areseboy, au contrare! I think you are the maestro when it comes to backdoor stuff It seems that you take great delight in posting on this site because of your deviance. If that is not the case, prove it....ferret! I'm H Jarrs and I can't stand cars!

8:10pm Sun 29 Dec 13

ARMANA says...

I'm H Jarrs and I can't stand cars! wrote:
ARMANA wrote:
I'm H Jarrs and I can't stand cars! wrote:
ARMANA wrote:
I'm H Jarrs and I can't stand cars! wrote:
ourcoalition wrote:
Just a few points about the posts above.

The £6 in Churchill Square - not a Council Car Park, same as Church St - both privately run, therefore that can't be laid at the Greens door.

As for going to Eastbourne/Crawley/w






herever - fact is the Car Parks are full anyway in central Brighton at the weekend, and business in the City is doing well in comparison to other parts of the country (in the middle of a Government sponsored recession - and, yes, I know Osborne says its over, but it doesn't feel like that in my wages!).

Having lived in the town for over 50 years, I can't say it is worse now in general terms, under the Greens. The biggest destruction of Brighton was the 1980's, when the Hollingbury industrial (mostly engineering) saw the "exit" of several thousand jobs as a result of Thatchers policies. Want to blame someone, then hold that lot to account.
No wonder that the vast majority of working people do not wish to join a trade union.

I think I may have seen your double on Carry on at Your Convenience today...you know what I am suggesting.
He likes public toilets, !!
Sore backside Arseboy? Too much backdoor action for you you T055ER
Your the expert there Gatling Gob, !!
Au contrare Areseboy, au contrare!

I think you are the maestro when it comes to backdoor stuff

It seems that you take great delight in posting on this site because of your deviance. If that is not the case, prove it....ferret!
I wouldn't be seen dead with a pervert like you,
[quote][p][bold]I'm H Jarrs and I can't stand cars![/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]ARMANA[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]I'm H Jarrs and I can't stand cars![/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]ARMANA[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]I'm H Jarrs and I can't stand cars![/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]ourcoalition[/bold] wrote: Just a few points about the posts above. The £6 in Churchill Square - not a Council Car Park, same as Church St - both privately run, therefore that can't be laid at the Greens door. As for going to Eastbourne/Crawley/w herever - fact is the Car Parks are full anyway in central Brighton at the weekend, and business in the City is doing well in comparison to other parts of the country (in the middle of a Government sponsored recession - and, yes, I know Osborne says its over, but it doesn't feel like that in my wages!). Having lived in the town for over 50 years, I can't say it is worse now in general terms, under the Greens. The biggest destruction of Brighton was the 1980's, when the Hollingbury industrial (mostly engineering) saw the "exit" of several thousand jobs as a result of Thatchers policies. Want to blame someone, then hold that lot to account.[/p][/quote]No wonder that the vast majority of working people do not wish to join a trade union. I think I may have seen your double on Carry on at Your Convenience today...you know what I am suggesting.[/p][/quote]He likes public toilets, !![/p][/quote]Sore backside Arseboy? Too much backdoor action for you you T055ER[/p][/quote]Your the expert there Gatling Gob, !![/p][/quote]Au contrare Areseboy, au contrare! I think you are the maestro when it comes to backdoor stuff It seems that you take great delight in posting on this site because of your deviance. If that is not the case, prove it....ferret![/p][/quote]I wouldn't be seen dead with a pervert like you, ARMANA

9:41am Mon 30 Dec 13

aat99 says...

Wonder how many that are complaining about the high costs of parking are clicking with Amazon which is the real killer for our high streets ?
Wonder how many that are complaining about the high costs of parking are clicking with Amazon which is the real killer for our high streets ? aat99

10:20am Fri 3 Jan 14

Dr Wombleface says...

My wife and I both bought 90% of our Christmas presents on line this year. I went into town once which was early one weekday morning when the car parks hadn't filled up, and whizzed around the few shops I needed to go to in about an hour, mainly buying gift vouchers for specific places. Saved me hours of trudging round in the cold (probably one more than one occasion), whilst racking up car park charges, and ending up paying more for things than they cost on the internet. Amazon were the winners this year, and will continue to be.

This of course is due to price as much as anything else, but should also send out a message that the greens need to do something else to make Christmas shopping a more attractive prospect in the future. When you crawl into town at 20mph, queue for car parks for ages, having to go the long way round and up West Street because going down West Street for the car parks is no longer a viable option despite having been fine for decades, you're fed up before you've even got out of the car. If some decent investment was put into some amazing Christmas lights around the town, it would be a magical experience which would spread by word of mouth and people's kids would be begging them to go and see it. OK our lights weren't too dismal this year, but nothing amazing. I think generally there are other options which should be considered to attract Christmas shoppers next year.
My wife and I both bought 90% of our Christmas presents on line this year. I went into town once which was early one weekday morning when the car parks hadn't filled up, and whizzed around the few shops I needed to go to in about an hour, mainly buying gift vouchers for specific places. Saved me hours of trudging round in the cold (probably one more than one occasion), whilst racking up car park charges, and ending up paying more for things than they cost on the internet. Amazon were the winners this year, and will continue to be. This of course is due to price as much as anything else, but should also send out a message that the greens need to do something else to make Christmas shopping a more attractive prospect in the future. When you crawl into town at 20mph, queue for car parks for ages, having to go the long way round and up West Street because going down West Street for the car parks is no longer a viable option despite having been fine for decades, you're fed up before you've even got out of the car. If some decent investment was put into some amazing Christmas lights around the town, it would be a magical experience which would spread by word of mouth and people's kids would be begging them to go and see it. OK our lights weren't too dismal this year, but nothing amazing. I think generally there are other options which should be considered to attract Christmas shoppers next year. Dr Wombleface

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