The ArgusBrighton and Hove fitness trainers face park licence (From The Argus)

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Brighton and Hove fitness trainers face park licence

The Argus: Brighton and Hove fitness trainers face park licence Brighton and Hove fitness trainers face park licence

Fitness trainers may soon have to pay for a licence to run classes in parks and green spaces.

With boot camps becoming a regular scene in public areas across the city, Brighton and Hove City Council wants those running keep fit sessions to pay a small levy.

Officials claim it will ensure the parks, such as Hove Lawns and Preston Park, are maintained while members of the public receive assurances trainers are fully qualified.

With the council yet to reveal how much the individual fee will be, established trainers cautiously welcomed the planned voluntary scheme.

Rob Jones, of StrideFit, said he felt there was a “good ethic” behind the idea.

He added: “The key thing will be how much the sum will be. It would have to be something that’s not damaging to my business.

“It’s a fairly flexible business and if it is a large one-off sum then it could cause me to sink rather than swim in this current climate.”

Steve Liszka, of Brighton Spartan Fitness, said he had some reservations about how the scheme would be enforced, particularly if he was paying the sum and others were not.

He added: “If I pay then I would like to see them improve the area on Hove Lawns that we use.”

The local authority said there are about 20 personal fitness companies and individuals running sessions in its parks.

To join the new scheme, fitness trainers would need to be registered with either UK active or on the Register of Exercise Professionals.

The money raised – estimated to be £5,000 to £8,000 a year – will then go towards maintaining the green spaces used. In return, those signed up to the scheme would be advertised on the council’s website.

A decision on the idea is set to be taken by the council’s environment, transport and sustainability committee tomorrow.

Other councils, such as Guildford and those in London, operate a similar scheme.

Councillor Pete West, chair- man of the committee, said: “Personal trainers are commercial operators charging customers for their services but until now have made no contribution to the upkeep of the green spaces they use.

"Other users, such as football and cricket clubs have to book and pay for use of the facilities.

“Our proposed scheme seeks to redress this balance, while promoting reputable businesses in the city and giving potential customers a choice of companies and trainers who are properly qualified and insured.”

Comments (76)

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11:22am Mon 13 Jan 14

Fight_Back says...

I'm guessing Pete West ignores that the personal trainers pay council tax ?

For goodness sake, these spaces are PUBLIC spaces. Will councils ever stop trying to grab money from people ? What next, charge dog walkers because the council have to empty the poo bins ? Or maybe charge kids to use the swings ?

This really shows that this Green council are about - squeezing every penny out of people. How do they plan to enforce this charge ? What is to stop me turning up at Preston Park ( obviously after paying my ridiculous parking fee ) and using it for exercise with other people that I have organised to be there ? Why do youth clubs such as Cubs and Guides not have to pay when they run activities in public spaces ?

Really, the Greens have gone mad ( or should that be more mad ? ).
I'm guessing Pete West ignores that the personal trainers pay council tax ? For goodness sake, these spaces are PUBLIC spaces. Will councils ever stop trying to grab money from people ? What next, charge dog walkers because the council have to empty the poo bins ? Or maybe charge kids to use the swings ? This really shows that this Green council are about - squeezing every penny out of people. How do they plan to enforce this charge ? What is to stop me turning up at Preston Park ( obviously after paying my ridiculous parking fee ) and using it for exercise with other people that I have organised to be there ? Why do youth clubs such as Cubs and Guides not have to pay when they run activities in public spaces ? Really, the Greens have gone mad ( or should that be more mad ? ). Fight_Back
  • Score: 38

11:26am Mon 13 Jan 14

getThisCoalitionOut says...

How long before there's a serious accident?

These are public parks and exercise classes should not be held in public places.

I nearly had an accident with someone from an exercising group in Hove Park.

This needs sorting out and fast.
How long before there's a serious accident? These are public parks and exercise classes should not be held in public places. I nearly had an accident with someone from an exercising group in Hove Park. This needs sorting out and fast. getThisCoalitionOut
  • Score: -44

11:28am Mon 13 Jan 14

tykemison says...

No.Stop these organised events occuring in our Parks full-stop.Was walking across Hove Lawns the other week and where some meatheads were congregated i was shouted at as they had the audacity to believe i was disrupting their work-out!!!Are there not by-laws already in-place to stop this exploitation?
No.Stop these organised events occuring in our Parks full-stop.Was walking across Hove Lawns the other week and where some meatheads were congregated i was shouted at as they had the audacity to believe i was disrupting their work-out!!!Are there not by-laws already in-place to stop this exploitation? tykemison
  • Score: 17

11:28am Mon 13 Jan 14

fredflintstone1 says...

So what about charging the language schools whose pupils effectively take over large areas of Preston Park in the summer? They are far more disruptive, and these are also much bigger businesses.
So what about charging the language schools whose pupils effectively take over large areas of Preston Park in the summer? They are far more disruptive, and these are also much bigger businesses. fredflintstone1
  • Score: 32

11:34am Mon 13 Jan 14

Saltdean Resident says...

Already happens in London.
Already happens in London. Saltdean Resident
  • Score: 4

11:44am Mon 13 Jan 14

paddytag says...

Fight_Back wrote:
I'm guessing Pete West ignores that the personal trainers pay council tax ?

For goodness sake, these spaces are PUBLIC spaces. Will councils ever stop trying to grab money from people ? What next, charge dog walkers because the council have to empty the poo bins ? Or maybe charge kids to use the swings ?

This really shows that this Green council are about - squeezing every penny out of people. How do they plan to enforce this charge ? What is to stop me turning up at Preston Park ( obviously after paying my ridiculous parking fee ) and using it for exercise with other people that I have organised to be there ? Why do youth clubs such as Cubs and Guides not have to pay when they run activities in public spaces ?

Really, the Greens have gone mad ( or should that be more mad ? ).
On some days the Hove Lawns is more like the Game of Thrones. One time I was watching one of these sessions and it looked like the were trying to reenact the Lord of the Rings.
[quote][p][bold]Fight_Back[/bold] wrote: I'm guessing Pete West ignores that the personal trainers pay council tax ? For goodness sake, these spaces are PUBLIC spaces. Will councils ever stop trying to grab money from people ? What next, charge dog walkers because the council have to empty the poo bins ? Or maybe charge kids to use the swings ? This really shows that this Green council are about - squeezing every penny out of people. How do they plan to enforce this charge ? What is to stop me turning up at Preston Park ( obviously after paying my ridiculous parking fee ) and using it for exercise with other people that I have organised to be there ? Why do youth clubs such as Cubs and Guides not have to pay when they run activities in public spaces ? Really, the Greens have gone mad ( or should that be more mad ? ).[/p][/quote]On some days the Hove Lawns is more like the Game of Thrones. One time I was watching one of these sessions and it looked like the were trying to reenact the Lord of the Rings. paddytag
  • Score: 9

11:45am Mon 13 Jan 14

Fight_Back says...

Saltdean Resident wrote:
Already happens in London.
So ????
[quote][p][bold]Saltdean Resident[/bold] wrote: Already happens in London.[/p][/quote]So ???? Fight_Back
  • Score: -13

11:51am Mon 13 Jan 14

MegA69 says...

BHCC should do everything possible to encourage physical activity among its residents. There should never be any obstacle whatsoever to facilitating and enabling people to by physically active - this is a public health issue of gargantuan proportion and if raising £8k in any way diminished physical activity by one minute it is not worth it. BHCC should ensure that a many green spaces as possible are in tip top shape to encourage physical activity.
BHCC should do everything possible to encourage physical activity among its residents. There should never be any obstacle whatsoever to facilitating and enabling people to by physically active - this is a public health issue of gargantuan proportion and if raising £8k in any way diminished physical activity by one minute it is not worth it. BHCC should ensure that a many green spaces as possible are in tip top shape to encourage physical activity. MegA69
  • Score: 36

11:51am Mon 13 Jan 14

rolivan says...

Meanwhile these same Taxpayers are expected to fund Cycle Lanes are they going to "Tax" the Cycle users for their construction and upkeep?
Meanwhile these same Taxpayers are expected to fund Cycle Lanes are they going to "Tax" the Cycle users for their construction and upkeep? rolivan
  • Score: 33

11:52am Mon 13 Jan 14

Brighton1000 says...

So they will tax (in effect) people working out on the lawns, What about taxing the cyclists and joggers that use the seafront too? Another nail in the greens coffin, keep em coming you idiots...
So they will tax (in effect) people working out on the lawns, What about taxing the cyclists and joggers that use the seafront too? Another nail in the greens coffin, keep em coming you idiots... Brighton1000
  • Score: 34

11:58am Mon 13 Jan 14

Dan Yack says...

Fight_Back wrote:
I'm guessing Pete West ignores that the personal trainers pay council tax ?

For goodness sake, these spaces are PUBLIC spaces. Will councils ever stop trying to grab money from people ? What next, charge dog walkers because the council have to empty the poo bins ? Or maybe charge kids to use the swings ?

This really shows that this Green council are about - squeezing every penny out of people. How do they plan to enforce this charge ? What is to stop me turning up at Preston Park ( obviously after paying my ridiculous parking fee ) and using it for exercise with other people that I have organised to be there ? Why do youth clubs such as Cubs and Guides not have to pay when they run activities in public spaces ?

Really, the Greens have gone mad ( or should that be more mad ? ).
I think you're failing to differentiate between people using the parks for personal use and those using it for business purposes. It's pretty much in line with the long established practice of street traders needing to buy a licence from the council to conduct their business in public places.
[quote][p][bold]Fight_Back[/bold] wrote: I'm guessing Pete West ignores that the personal trainers pay council tax ? For goodness sake, these spaces are PUBLIC spaces. Will councils ever stop trying to grab money from people ? What next, charge dog walkers because the council have to empty the poo bins ? Or maybe charge kids to use the swings ? This really shows that this Green council are about - squeezing every penny out of people. How do they plan to enforce this charge ? What is to stop me turning up at Preston Park ( obviously after paying my ridiculous parking fee ) and using it for exercise with other people that I have organised to be there ? Why do youth clubs such as Cubs and Guides not have to pay when they run activities in public spaces ? Really, the Greens have gone mad ( or should that be more mad ? ).[/p][/quote]I think you're failing to differentiate between people using the parks for personal use and those using it for business purposes. It's pretty much in line with the long established practice of street traders needing to buy a licence from the council to conduct their business in public places. Dan Yack
  • Score: 42

11:58am Mon 13 Jan 14

Fight_Back says...

rolivan wrote:
Meanwhile these same Taxpayers are expected to fund Cycle Lanes are they going to "Tax" the Cycle users for their construction and upkeep?
Good point. So the cycle lanes are built with money from motorists ( some who might be cyclists as well ) so surely cyclists should be charged for using them ?
[quote][p][bold]rolivan[/bold] wrote: Meanwhile these same Taxpayers are expected to fund Cycle Lanes are they going to "Tax" the Cycle users for their construction and upkeep?[/p][/quote]Good point. So the cycle lanes are built with money from motorists ( some who might be cyclists as well ) so surely cyclists should be charged for using them ? Fight_Back
  • Score: 20

11:59am Mon 13 Jan 14

Dan Yack says...

Brighton1000 wrote:
So they will tax (in effect) people working out on the lawns, What about taxing the cyclists and joggers that use the seafront too? Another nail in the greens coffin, keep em coming you idiots...
Don't be a donut - they're not using these areas for business purposes.
[quote][p][bold]Brighton1000[/bold] wrote: So they will tax (in effect) people working out on the lawns, What about taxing the cyclists and joggers that use the seafront too? Another nail in the greens coffin, keep em coming you idiots...[/p][/quote]Don't be a donut - they're not using these areas for business purposes. Dan Yack
  • Score: 21

12:03pm Mon 13 Jan 14

hey mongo says...

london have been charging for ages so the council just jumping on the bandwaggon...this has been in the pipeline for ages...when i used to play football on hove lawns the council stopped cuytting the grass to keep us off the mugs...what happens then if group of kids are laying football and these people turn up for there training do they have the right to move the kids on??
london have been charging for ages so the council just jumping on the bandwaggon...this has been in the pipeline for ages...when i used to play football on hove lawns the council stopped cuytting the grass to keep us off the mugs...what happens then if group of kids are laying football and these people turn up for there training do they have the right to move the kids on?? hey mongo
  • Score: 18

12:06pm Mon 13 Jan 14

aat99 says...

Fight_Back wrote:
rolivan wrote: Meanwhile these same Taxpayers are expected to fund Cycle Lanes are they going to "Tax" the Cycle users for their construction and upkeep?
Good point. So the cycle lanes are built with money from motorists ( some who might be cyclists as well ) so surely cyclists should be charged for using them ?
money from motorists ???? surely your are not talking about the mythical "road tax" again ???

I think every cyclist that uses his/her bike to get about should all switch to car/taxi/bus etc for one day and then the increase in congestion will really give motoristssomething to moan about ...by the way I mostly drive or walk before I'm shouted down as a lentil eating green ...
[quote][p][bold]Fight_Back[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]rolivan[/bold] wrote: Meanwhile these same Taxpayers are expected to fund Cycle Lanes are they going to "Tax" the Cycle users for their construction and upkeep?[/p][/quote]Good point. So the cycle lanes are built with money from motorists ( some who might be cyclists as well ) so surely cyclists should be charged for using them ?[/p][/quote]money from motorists ???? surely your are not talking about the mythical "road tax" again ??? I think every cyclist that uses his/her bike to get about should all switch to car/taxi/bus etc for one day and then the increase in congestion will really give motoristssomething to moan about ...by the way I mostly drive or walk before I'm shouted down as a lentil eating green ... aat99
  • Score: -16

12:11pm Mon 13 Jan 14

Fight_Back says...

aat99 wrote:
Fight_Back wrote:
rolivan wrote: Meanwhile these same Taxpayers are expected to fund Cycle Lanes are they going to "Tax" the Cycle users for their construction and upkeep?
Good point. So the cycle lanes are built with money from motorists ( some who might be cyclists as well ) so surely cyclists should be charged for using them ?
money from motorists ???? surely your are not talking about the mythical "road tax" again ???

I think every cyclist that uses his/her bike to get about should all switch to car/taxi/bus etc for one day and then the increase in congestion will really give motoristssomething to moan about ...by the way I mostly drive or walk before I'm shouted down as a lentil eating green ...
Where is I mention "Road Tax" or even VED ? The money I was referring to was parking fees and parking permits. You know, the £16m the council rake in every year and is then used to build cycle lanes.
[quote][p][bold]aat99[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Fight_Back[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]rolivan[/bold] wrote: Meanwhile these same Taxpayers are expected to fund Cycle Lanes are they going to "Tax" the Cycle users for their construction and upkeep?[/p][/quote]Good point. So the cycle lanes are built with money from motorists ( some who might be cyclists as well ) so surely cyclists should be charged for using them ?[/p][/quote]money from motorists ???? surely your are not talking about the mythical "road tax" again ??? I think every cyclist that uses his/her bike to get about should all switch to car/taxi/bus etc for one day and then the increase in congestion will really give motoristssomething to moan about ...by the way I mostly drive or walk before I'm shouted down as a lentil eating green ...[/p][/quote]Where is I mention "Road Tax" or even VED ? The money I was referring to was parking fees and parking permits. You know, the £16m the council rake in every year and is then used to build cycle lanes. Fight_Back
  • Score: 11

12:14pm Mon 13 Jan 14

uniteagainstparkingcharges says...

If these trainers are running classes purely in the interest of the community and to help others to get fit with no financial interest then the classes should be allowed to go ahead.

However, this is not often the case and most these trainers will be using these areas to make a profit. Like any business they should only be allowed to use designated areas and also be made to have a license to run classes in these spaces.
If these trainers are running classes purely in the interest of the community and to help others to get fit with no financial interest then the classes should be allowed to go ahead. However, this is not often the case and most these trainers will be using these areas to make a profit. Like any business they should only be allowed to use designated areas and also be made to have a license to run classes in these spaces. uniteagainstparkingcharges
  • Score: 27

12:20pm Mon 13 Jan 14

Jim Davis says...

So, an article that has nothing to do with cycling, dissolves into yet more spiteful anti-cycling rhetoric. Good to see the trolls out so early on in the week.
So, an article that has nothing to do with cycling, dissolves into yet more spiteful anti-cycling rhetoric. Good to see the trolls out so early on in the week. Jim Davis
  • Score: -2

12:39pm Mon 13 Jan 14

tykemison says...

Jeez,how has this descended into an argument?Its quite simple,Public spaces are for members of the public to relax and enjoy,not for some personal trainer earning money and his cohorts to hijack whenever they remember to look up to the Heavens and see the big bright yellow thing is out so to miraculously make their way to a PUBLIC area to take it over as a blooming business,simples!
Jeez,how has this descended into an argument?Its quite simple,Public spaces are for members of the public to relax and enjoy,not for some personal trainer earning money and his cohorts to hijack whenever they remember to look up to the Heavens and see the big bright yellow thing is out so to miraculously make their way to a PUBLIC area to take it over as a blooming business,simples! tykemison
  • Score: 29

1:03pm Mon 13 Jan 14

monkeymoo says...

rolivan wrote:
Meanwhile these same Taxpayers are expected to fund Cycle Lanes are they going to "Tax" the Cycle users for their construction and upkeep?
Or pedestrians for walking on the pavements!?
[quote][p][bold]rolivan[/bold] wrote: Meanwhile these same Taxpayers are expected to fund Cycle Lanes are they going to "Tax" the Cycle users for their construction and upkeep?[/p][/quote]Or pedestrians for walking on the pavements!? monkeymoo
  • Score: 2

1:08pm Mon 13 Jan 14

jiving says...

Whatever next, charging parents to take their child to play in the park? I thought we had an obesity crisis , I thought none of us exercise , surely we should be encouraging this
Whatever next, charging parents to take their child to play in the park? I thought we had an obesity crisis , I thought none of us exercise , surely we should be encouraging this jiving
  • Score: 1

1:13pm Mon 13 Jan 14

Fairfax Aches says...

This is a (unusually) sensible option based on the simple principle of distinguishing between the use of public spaces for private or commercial reasons. Have as many group sessions as you want, but if you wish to take space away from others in the pursuit of profit, you should have to pay!
This is a (unusually) sensible option based on the simple principle of distinguishing between the use of public spaces for private or commercial reasons. Have as many group sessions as you want, but if you wish to take space away from others in the pursuit of profit, you should have to pay! Fairfax Aches
  • Score: 25

1:28pm Mon 13 Jan 14

whatevernext2013 says...

i wonder how many would be happy with a group of people ,turning up in there garden for a work out ,i think the clue to all this is in its a public area not and not a private rented space
i wonder how many would be happy with a group of people ,turning up in there garden for a work out ,i think the clue to all this is in its a public area not and not a private rented space whatevernext2013
  • Score: 4

1:40pm Mon 13 Jan 14

it'smyturn says...

I agree with Fairfax Aches, on more than one occasion I have gone to Hove park with my daughter and her friend to use the exercise equipment only to find it being taken over buy a fitness instructor for use of his fee paying clients, if they pay him he should provide the equipment needed. Well that's my opinion anyway.
I agree with Fairfax Aches, on more than one occasion I have gone to Hove park with my daughter and her friend to use the exercise equipment only to find it being taken over buy a fitness instructor for use of his fee paying clients, if they pay him he should provide the equipment needed. Well that's my opinion anyway. it'smyturn
  • Score: 19

1:41pm Mon 13 Jan 14

it'smyturn says...

*by
*by it'smyturn
  • Score: -2

1:45pm Mon 13 Jan 14

Fight_Back says...

Fairfax Aches wrote:
This is a (unusually) sensible option based on the simple principle of distinguishing between the use of public spaces for private or commercial reasons. Have as many group sessions as you want, but if you wish to take space away from others in the pursuit of profit, you should have to pay!
And yet every time I've been past both Hove Park and Preston Park when this has been going on there has been ACRES of space for everyone else. Barmy idea from a barmy council.

Let's see, if the fitness classes didn't take place there the council would still have to :

> Cut the grass ( although they are getting rather lax on this anyway )
> Empty the bins
> Maintain the flower beds
> Maintain the paths and roadways

So there are no extra costs to these people using it so why charge them ? Still nobody has explained how it will be enforced either ?
[quote][p][bold]Fairfax Aches[/bold] wrote: This is a (unusually) sensible option based on the simple principle of distinguishing between the use of public spaces for private or commercial reasons. Have as many group sessions as you want, but if you wish to take space away from others in the pursuit of profit, you should have to pay![/p][/quote]And yet every time I've been past both Hove Park and Preston Park when this has been going on there has been ACRES of space for everyone else. Barmy idea from a barmy council. Let's see, if the fitness classes didn't take place there the council would still have to : > Cut the grass ( although they are getting rather lax on this anyway ) > Empty the bins > Maintain the flower beds > Maintain the paths and roadways So there are no extra costs to these people using it so why charge them ? Still nobody has explained how it will be enforced either ? Fight_Back
  • Score: 0

2:19pm Mon 13 Jan 14

aat99 says...

Fight_Back wrote:
aat99 wrote:
Fight_Back wrote:
rolivan wrote: Meanwhile these same Taxpayers are expected to fund Cycle Lanes are they going to "Tax" the Cycle users for their construction and upkeep?
Good point. So the cycle lanes are built with money from motorists ( some who might be cyclists as well ) so surely cyclists should be charged for using them ?
money from motorists ???? surely your are not talking about the mythical "road tax" again ??? I think every cyclist that uses his/her bike to get about should all switch to car/taxi/bus etc for one day and then the increase in congestion will really give motoristssomething to moan about ...by the way I mostly drive or walk before I'm shouted down as a lentil eating green ...
Where is I mention "Road Tax" or even VED ? The money I was referring to was parking fees and parking permits. You know, the £16m the council rake in every year and is then used to build cycle lanes.
more people cycling .. less cars ... less congestion .. less pollution .. more healthy people .. it's not a difficult concept to understand

but of course everyone in Brighton and Hove needs to use their car for vital reasons .......
[quote][p][bold]Fight_Back[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]aat99[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Fight_Back[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]rolivan[/bold] wrote: Meanwhile these same Taxpayers are expected to fund Cycle Lanes are they going to "Tax" the Cycle users for their construction and upkeep?[/p][/quote]Good point. So the cycle lanes are built with money from motorists ( some who might be cyclists as well ) so surely cyclists should be charged for using them ?[/p][/quote]money from motorists ???? surely your are not talking about the mythical "road tax" again ??? I think every cyclist that uses his/her bike to get about should all switch to car/taxi/bus etc for one day and then the increase in congestion will really give motoristssomething to moan about ...by the way I mostly drive or walk before I'm shouted down as a lentil eating green ...[/p][/quote]Where is I mention "Road Tax" or even VED ? The money I was referring to was parking fees and parking permits. You know, the £16m the council rake in every year and is then used to build cycle lanes.[/p][/quote]more people cycling .. less cars ... less congestion .. less pollution .. more healthy people .. it's not a difficult concept to understand but of course everyone in Brighton and Hove needs to use their car for vital reasons ....... aat99
  • Score: -6

2:23pm Mon 13 Jan 14

Hovite says...

They say money raised estimated to be £5,000 to £8,000 a year.

Do they mention it will cost more than that to draw up the policy, enforce it and administrate it?

All this does is give the council officers more work and the money gained will only offset this cost.
They say money raised estimated to be £5,000 to £8,000 a year. Do they mention it will cost more than that to draw up the policy, enforce it and administrate it? All this does is give the council officers more work and the money gained will only offset this cost. Hovite
  • Score: 15

3:40pm Mon 13 Jan 14

cleggalike says...

Fight_Back wrote:
I'm guessing Pete West ignores that the personal trainers pay council tax ?

For goodness sake, these spaces are PUBLIC spaces. Will councils ever stop trying to grab money from people ? What next, charge dog walkers because the council have to empty the poo bins ? Or maybe charge kids to use the swings ?

This really shows that this Green council are about - squeezing every penny out of people. How do they plan to enforce this charge ? What is to stop me turning up at Preston Park ( obviously after paying my ridiculous parking fee ) and using it for exercise with other people that I have organised to be there ? Why do youth clubs such as Cubs and Guides not have to pay when they run activities in public spaces ?

Really, the Greens have gone mad ( or should that be more mad ? ).
Cubs and Guides are charitable organisations, run by volunteers. Fitness trainers make their living form their activity, and a modest charge on them to use a public space seems reasonable.
[quote][p][bold]Fight_Back[/bold] wrote: I'm guessing Pete West ignores that the personal trainers pay council tax ? For goodness sake, these spaces are PUBLIC spaces. Will councils ever stop trying to grab money from people ? What next, charge dog walkers because the council have to empty the poo bins ? Or maybe charge kids to use the swings ? This really shows that this Green council are about - squeezing every penny out of people. How do they plan to enforce this charge ? What is to stop me turning up at Preston Park ( obviously after paying my ridiculous parking fee ) and using it for exercise with other people that I have organised to be there ? Why do youth clubs such as Cubs and Guides not have to pay when they run activities in public spaces ? Really, the Greens have gone mad ( or should that be more mad ? ).[/p][/quote]Cubs and Guides are charitable organisations, run by volunteers. Fitness trainers make their living form their activity, and a modest charge on them to use a public space seems reasonable. cleggalike
  • Score: 10

3:44pm Mon 13 Jan 14

cleggalike says...

Fight_Back wrote:
I'm guessing Pete West ignores that the personal trainers pay council tax ?

For goodness sake, these spaces are PUBLIC spaces. Will councils ever stop trying to grab money from people ? What next, charge dog walkers because the council have to empty the poo bins ? Or maybe charge kids to use the swings ?

This really shows that this Green council are about - squeezing every penny out of people. How do they plan to enforce this charge ? What is to stop me turning up at Preston Park ( obviously after paying my ridiculous parking fee ) and using it for exercise with other people that I have organised to be there ? Why do youth clubs such as Cubs and Guides not have to pay when they run activities in public spaces ?

Really, the Greens have gone mad ( or should that be more mad ? ).
Oh come off it. Cubs and Guides are voluntary organisations and they don't make a profit. Personal Trainers are using public spaces to earn a living. Good luck to them, but it seems reasonable to expect that they pay a modest fee.
[quote][p][bold]Fight_Back[/bold] wrote: I'm guessing Pete West ignores that the personal trainers pay council tax ? For goodness sake, these spaces are PUBLIC spaces. Will councils ever stop trying to grab money from people ? What next, charge dog walkers because the council have to empty the poo bins ? Or maybe charge kids to use the swings ? This really shows that this Green council are about - squeezing every penny out of people. How do they plan to enforce this charge ? What is to stop me turning up at Preston Park ( obviously after paying my ridiculous parking fee ) and using it for exercise with other people that I have organised to be there ? Why do youth clubs such as Cubs and Guides not have to pay when they run activities in public spaces ? Really, the Greens have gone mad ( or should that be more mad ? ).[/p][/quote]Oh come off it. Cubs and Guides are voluntary organisations and they don't make a profit. Personal Trainers are using public spaces to earn a living. Good luck to them, but it seems reasonable to expect that they pay a modest fee. cleggalike
  • Score: 6

3:47pm Mon 13 Jan 14

her professional says...

Fight_Back wrote:
I'm guessing Pete West ignores that the personal trainers pay council tax ?

For goodness sake, these spaces are PUBLIC spaces. Will councils ever stop trying to grab money from people ? What next, charge dog walkers because the council have to empty the poo bins ? Or maybe charge kids to use the swings ?

This really shows that this Green council are about - squeezing every penny out of people. How do they plan to enforce this charge ? What is to stop me turning up at Preston Park ( obviously after paying my ridiculous parking fee ) and using it for exercise with other people that I have organised to be there ? Why do youth clubs such as Cubs and Guides not have to pay when they run activities in public spaces ?

Really, the Greens have gone mad ( or should that be more mad ? ).
Nonsense. These people are running businesses, as you say in a public space, therefore they should be licensed and pay up, the same way as other traders have to. If they don't like it, lease some premises.
[quote][p][bold]Fight_Back[/bold] wrote: I'm guessing Pete West ignores that the personal trainers pay council tax ? For goodness sake, these spaces are PUBLIC spaces. Will councils ever stop trying to grab money from people ? What next, charge dog walkers because the council have to empty the poo bins ? Or maybe charge kids to use the swings ? This really shows that this Green council are about - squeezing every penny out of people. How do they plan to enforce this charge ? What is to stop me turning up at Preston Park ( obviously after paying my ridiculous parking fee ) and using it for exercise with other people that I have organised to be there ? Why do youth clubs such as Cubs and Guides not have to pay when they run activities in public spaces ? Really, the Greens have gone mad ( or should that be more mad ? ).[/p][/quote]Nonsense. These people are running businesses, as you say in a public space, therefore they should be licensed and pay up, the same way as other traders have to. If they don't like it, lease some premises. her professional
  • Score: 11

3:57pm Mon 13 Jan 14

Benji.uk says...

Fight_Back wrote:
rolivan wrote:
Meanwhile these same Taxpayers are expected to fund Cycle Lanes are they going to "Tax" the Cycle users for their construction and upkeep?
Good point. So the cycle lanes are built with money from motorists ( some who might be cyclists as well ) so surely cyclists should be charged for using them ?
Motorists do not pay for the roads we all do. everyone has the right to use them the 'Tax' a motorist pays is VED this is a tax on emissions, meaning ultra-efficient and electric cars, among others, pay nothing.
[quote][p][bold]Fight_Back[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]rolivan[/bold] wrote: Meanwhile these same Taxpayers are expected to fund Cycle Lanes are they going to "Tax" the Cycle users for their construction and upkeep?[/p][/quote]Good point. So the cycle lanes are built with money from motorists ( some who might be cyclists as well ) so surely cyclists should be charged for using them ?[/p][/quote]Motorists do not pay for the roads we all do. everyone has the right to use them the 'Tax' a motorist pays is VED this is a tax on emissions, meaning ultra-efficient and electric cars, among others, pay nothing. Benji.uk
  • Score: -1

4:00pm Mon 13 Jan 14

Dan Yack says...

Fight_Back wrote:
Fairfax Aches wrote:
This is a (unusually) sensible option based on the simple principle of distinguishing between the use of public spaces for private or commercial reasons. Have as many group sessions as you want, but if you wish to take space away from others in the pursuit of profit, you should have to pay!
And yet every time I've been past both Hove Park and Preston Park when this has been going on there has been ACRES of space for everyone else. Barmy idea from a barmy council.

Let's see, if the fitness classes didn't take place there the council would still have to :

> Cut the grass ( although they are getting rather lax on this anyway )
> Empty the bins
> Maintain the flower beds
> Maintain the paths and roadways

So there are no extra costs to these people using it so why charge them ? Still nobody has explained how it will be enforced either ?
So you're arguing that as a Brighton resident you're happy to pay for all the maintenance of Preston Park, and someone like British Military Fitness (who are a national company who I guess don't pay council tax locally) should just keep their wallet in their pocket? That's very generous of you!
[quote][p][bold]Fight_Back[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Fairfax Aches[/bold] wrote: This is a (unusually) sensible option based on the simple principle of distinguishing between the use of public spaces for private or commercial reasons. Have as many group sessions as you want, but if you wish to take space away from others in the pursuit of profit, you should have to pay![/p][/quote]And yet every time I've been past both Hove Park and Preston Park when this has been going on there has been ACRES of space for everyone else. Barmy idea from a barmy council. Let's see, if the fitness classes didn't take place there the council would still have to : > Cut the grass ( although they are getting rather lax on this anyway ) > Empty the bins > Maintain the flower beds > Maintain the paths and roadways So there are no extra costs to these people using it so why charge them ? Still nobody has explained how it will be enforced either ?[/p][/quote]So you're arguing that as a Brighton resident you're happy to pay for all the maintenance of Preston Park, and someone like British Military Fitness (who are a national company who I guess don't pay council tax locally) should just keep their wallet in their pocket? That's very generous of you! Dan Yack
  • Score: 10

4:01pm Mon 13 Jan 14

Hovite says...

her professional wrote:
Fight_Back wrote:
I'm guessing Pete West ignores that the personal trainers pay council tax ?

For goodness sake, these spaces are PUBLIC spaces. Will councils ever stop trying to grab money from people ? What next, charge dog walkers because the council have to empty the poo bins ? Or maybe charge kids to use the swings ?

This really shows that this Green council are about - squeezing every penny out of people. How do they plan to enforce this charge ? What is to stop me turning up at Preston Park ( obviously after paying my ridiculous parking fee ) and using it for exercise with other people that I have organised to be there ? Why do youth clubs such as Cubs and Guides not have to pay when they run activities in public spaces ?

Really, the Greens have gone mad ( or should that be more mad ? ).
Nonsense. These people are running businesses, as you say in a public space, therefore they should be licensed and pay up, the same way as other traders have to. If they don't like it, lease some premises.
So if you are a professional child minder or nanny, and you are being paid to take some children to a park to use the play area, should they pay for a license?

Or if you are a professional dog walker and get paid for walking dogs in a park, should they pay for a license?
[quote][p][bold]her professional[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Fight_Back[/bold] wrote: I'm guessing Pete West ignores that the personal trainers pay council tax ? For goodness sake, these spaces are PUBLIC spaces. Will councils ever stop trying to grab money from people ? What next, charge dog walkers because the council have to empty the poo bins ? Or maybe charge kids to use the swings ? This really shows that this Green council are about - squeezing every penny out of people. How do they plan to enforce this charge ? What is to stop me turning up at Preston Park ( obviously after paying my ridiculous parking fee ) and using it for exercise with other people that I have organised to be there ? Why do youth clubs such as Cubs and Guides not have to pay when they run activities in public spaces ? Really, the Greens have gone mad ( or should that be more mad ? ).[/p][/quote]Nonsense. These people are running businesses, as you say in a public space, therefore they should be licensed and pay up, the same way as other traders have to. If they don't like it, lease some premises.[/p][/quote]So if you are a professional child minder or nanny, and you are being paid to take some children to a park to use the play area, should they pay for a license? Or if you are a professional dog walker and get paid for walking dogs in a park, should they pay for a license? Hovite
  • Score: 4

4:08pm Mon 13 Jan 14

Fight_Back says...

Benji.uk wrote:
Fight_Back wrote:
rolivan wrote:
Meanwhile these same Taxpayers are expected to fund Cycle Lanes are they going to "Tax" the Cycle users for their construction and upkeep?
Good point. So the cycle lanes are built with money from motorists ( some who might be cyclists as well ) so surely cyclists should be charged for using them ?
Motorists do not pay for the roads we all do. everyone has the right to use them the 'Tax' a motorist pays is VED this is a tax on emissions, meaning ultra-efficient and electric cars, among others, pay nothing.
If you bother to read my post properly you will see I didn't say motorists paid for the ROADS. I said they paid for the cycle lanes. I stated that because the revenue / profit from car parks, parking permits and parking fines is ringfenced for transport "improvements". These include cycle lanes - so motorists DO pay for cycle lanes.
[quote][p][bold]Benji.uk[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Fight_Back[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]rolivan[/bold] wrote: Meanwhile these same Taxpayers are expected to fund Cycle Lanes are they going to "Tax" the Cycle users for their construction and upkeep?[/p][/quote]Good point. So the cycle lanes are built with money from motorists ( some who might be cyclists as well ) so surely cyclists should be charged for using them ?[/p][/quote]Motorists do not pay for the roads we all do. everyone has the right to use them the 'Tax' a motorist pays is VED this is a tax on emissions, meaning ultra-efficient and electric cars, among others, pay nothing.[/p][/quote]If you bother to read my post properly you will see I didn't say motorists paid for the ROADS. I said they paid for the cycle lanes. I stated that because the revenue / profit from car parks, parking permits and parking fines is ringfenced for transport "improvements". These include cycle lanes - so motorists DO pay for cycle lanes. Fight_Back
  • Score: 3

4:10pm Mon 13 Jan 14

Fight_Back says...

Dan Yack wrote:
Fight_Back wrote:
Fairfax Aches wrote:
This is a (unusually) sensible option based on the simple principle of distinguishing between the use of public spaces for private or commercial reasons. Have as many group sessions as you want, but if you wish to take space away from others in the pursuit of profit, you should have to pay!
And yet every time I've been past both Hove Park and Preston Park when this has been going on there has been ACRES of space for everyone else. Barmy idea from a barmy council.

Let's see, if the fitness classes didn't take place there the council would still have to :

> Cut the grass ( although they are getting rather lax on this anyway )
> Empty the bins
> Maintain the flower beds
> Maintain the paths and roadways

So there are no extra costs to these people using it so why charge them ? Still nobody has explained how it will be enforced either ?
So you're arguing that as a Brighton resident you're happy to pay for all the maintenance of Preston Park, and someone like British Military Fitness (who are a national company who I guess don't pay council tax locally) should just keep their wallet in their pocket? That's very generous of you!
Errr .... yes. The instructors are local and so guess what ? Pay council tax ! This is a petty move by the council that will raise little, if any money and is entirely unenforceable.
[quote][p][bold]Dan Yack[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Fight_Back[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Fairfax Aches[/bold] wrote: This is a (unusually) sensible option based on the simple principle of distinguishing between the use of public spaces for private or commercial reasons. Have as many group sessions as you want, but if you wish to take space away from others in the pursuit of profit, you should have to pay![/p][/quote]And yet every time I've been past both Hove Park and Preston Park when this has been going on there has been ACRES of space for everyone else. Barmy idea from a barmy council. Let's see, if the fitness classes didn't take place there the council would still have to : > Cut the grass ( although they are getting rather lax on this anyway ) > Empty the bins > Maintain the flower beds > Maintain the paths and roadways So there are no extra costs to these people using it so why charge them ? Still nobody has explained how it will be enforced either ?[/p][/quote]So you're arguing that as a Brighton resident you're happy to pay for all the maintenance of Preston Park, and someone like British Military Fitness (who are a national company who I guess don't pay council tax locally) should just keep their wallet in their pocket? That's very generous of you![/p][/quote]Errr .... yes. The instructors are local and so guess what ? Pay council tax ! This is a petty move by the council that will raise little, if any money and is entirely unenforceable. Fight_Back
  • Score: -3

4:12pm Mon 13 Jan 14

ants4t says...

How will they differentiate between a group of friends working out together or a group with a paid instructor? Surely the members of the group already have paid for use of the public space.

How can you tell if the person leading has been paid any money?

Will they charge anyone working out in the public space?

It seems impossible to police fairly.
How will they differentiate between a group of friends working out together or a group with a paid instructor? Surely the members of the group already have paid for use of the public space. How can you tell if the person leading has been paid any money? Will they charge anyone working out in the public space? It seems impossible to police fairly. ants4t
  • Score: 0

4:19pm Mon 13 Jan 14

ants4t says...

Fight_Back wrote:
Benji.uk wrote:
Fight_Back wrote:
rolivan wrote:
Meanwhile these same Taxpayers are expected to fund Cycle Lanes are they going to "Tax" the Cycle users for their construction and upkeep?
Good point. So the cycle lanes are built with money from motorists ( some who might be cyclists as well ) so surely cyclists should be charged for using them ?
Motorists do not pay for the roads we all do. everyone has the right to use them the 'Tax' a motorist pays is VED this is a tax on emissions, meaning ultra-efficient and electric cars, among others, pay nothing.
If you bother to read my post properly you will see I didn't say motorists paid for the ROADS. I said they paid for the cycle lanes. I stated that because the revenue / profit from car parks, parking permits and parking fines is ringfenced for transport "improvements". These include cycle lanes - so motorists DO pay for cycle lanes.
Which the money the motorist pays for a service or a fine, goes towards trying to reduce the amount of cars parked in the city centre. Unfortunately BHCC have no idea how to effectively use city paths as they have only made Brighton more dangerous for cyclists. We must have the most confusing and unusable cycle path network in the country.
[quote][p][bold]Fight_Back[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Benji.uk[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Fight_Back[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]rolivan[/bold] wrote: Meanwhile these same Taxpayers are expected to fund Cycle Lanes are they going to "Tax" the Cycle users for their construction and upkeep?[/p][/quote]Good point. So the cycle lanes are built with money from motorists ( some who might be cyclists as well ) so surely cyclists should be charged for using them ?[/p][/quote]Motorists do not pay for the roads we all do. everyone has the right to use them the 'Tax' a motorist pays is VED this is a tax on emissions, meaning ultra-efficient and electric cars, among others, pay nothing.[/p][/quote]If you bother to read my post properly you will see I didn't say motorists paid for the ROADS. I said they paid for the cycle lanes. I stated that because the revenue / profit from car parks, parking permits and parking fines is ringfenced for transport "improvements". These include cycle lanes - so motorists DO pay for cycle lanes.[/p][/quote]Which the money the motorist pays for a service or a fine, goes towards trying to reduce the amount of cars parked in the city centre. Unfortunately BHCC have no idea how to effectively use city paths as they have only made Brighton more dangerous for cyclists. We must have the most confusing and unusable cycle path network in the country. ants4t
  • Score: 1

4:21pm Mon 13 Jan 14

ants4t says...

Is the photo used for this story of a personal trainer and client? How can you tell the difference between a couple of friends or someone being paid?
Is the photo used for this story of a personal trainer and client? How can you tell the difference between a couple of friends or someone being paid? ants4t
  • Score: -4

4:28pm Mon 13 Jan 14

Honest Fitness says...

I'm a personal trainer and I must say that if policed correctly, this isn't an entirely bad idea. I have seen large groups for a fitness class demand that groups of people move on from 'their space' as they 'have it every week'. To me, that's not on. First come, first served!
I also think it may ensure all trainers are adequately qualified, although I would also hope that rubbish PTs don't last anyway. There are some PTs out there working on such tiny overheads because of competition, so I think the council should consider a proportional charge. It's not clear whether they would charge someone training 1:1 compared with a large-scale circuit class, for example.

I don't know if many PTs pay business rates at all. But if not, should they not be contributing in some way? Although I must admit I don't know how taxation policies work.

Would the charge put people off doing the classes (ref the obesity crisis and need for exercise)? No, because it is not those people who would pay the premium. Although again, I'm sure many will see it as an opportunity to increase fees and blame the council.

Having said all of that, unless policed properly (ie patrols and active requests to see licences), then it'd be a shambles. And given the costs of patrols, £5-8k per year would leave the council at an operating loss.
Ramble ramble ramble
I'm a personal trainer and I must say that if policed correctly, this isn't an entirely bad idea. I have seen large groups for a fitness class demand that groups of people move on from 'their space' as they 'have it every week'. To me, that's not on. First come, first served! I also think it may ensure all trainers are adequately qualified, although I would also hope that rubbish PTs don't last anyway. There are some PTs out there working on such tiny overheads because of competition, so I think the council should consider a proportional charge. It's not clear whether they would charge someone training 1:1 compared with a large-scale circuit class, for example. I don't know if many PTs pay business rates at all. But if not, should they not be contributing in some way? Although I must admit I don't know how taxation policies work. Would the charge put people off doing the classes (ref the obesity crisis and need for exercise)? No, because it is not those people who would pay the premium. Although again, I'm sure many will see it as an opportunity to increase fees and blame the council. Having said all of that, unless policed properly (ie patrols and active requests to see licences), then it'd be a shambles. And given the costs of patrols, £5-8k per year would leave the council at an operating loss. Ramble ramble ramble Honest Fitness
  • Score: 14

4:29pm Mon 13 Jan 14

Omnishambles_1 says...

Hovite wrote:
her professional wrote:
Fight_Back wrote:
I'm guessing Pete West ignores that the personal trainers pay council tax ?

For goodness sake, these spaces are PUBLIC spaces. Will councils ever stop trying to grab money from people ? What next, charge dog walkers because the council have to empty the poo bins ? Or maybe charge kids to use the swings ?

This really shows that this Green council are about - squeezing every penny out of people. How do they plan to enforce this charge ? What is to stop me turning up at Preston Park ( obviously after paying my ridiculous parking fee ) and using it for exercise with other people that I have organised to be there ? Why do youth clubs such as Cubs and Guides not have to pay when they run activities in public spaces ?

Really, the Greens have gone mad ( or should that be more mad ? ).
Nonsense. These people are running businesses, as you say in a public space, therefore they should be licensed and pay up, the same way as other traders have to. If they don't like it, lease some premises.
So if you are a professional child minder or nanny, and you are being paid to take some children to a park to use the play area, should they pay for a license?

Or if you are a professional dog walker and get paid for walking dogs in a park, should they pay for a license?
Ha! People like you are the reason so many things hardly ever get done in this great city!
[quote][p][bold]Hovite[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]her professional[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Fight_Back[/bold] wrote: I'm guessing Pete West ignores that the personal trainers pay council tax ? For goodness sake, these spaces are PUBLIC spaces. Will councils ever stop trying to grab money from people ? What next, charge dog walkers because the council have to empty the poo bins ? Or maybe charge kids to use the swings ? This really shows that this Green council are about - squeezing every penny out of people. How do they plan to enforce this charge ? What is to stop me turning up at Preston Park ( obviously after paying my ridiculous parking fee ) and using it for exercise with other people that I have organised to be there ? Why do youth clubs such as Cubs and Guides not have to pay when they run activities in public spaces ? Really, the Greens have gone mad ( or should that be more mad ? ).[/p][/quote]Nonsense. These people are running businesses, as you say in a public space, therefore they should be licensed and pay up, the same way as other traders have to. If they don't like it, lease some premises.[/p][/quote]So if you are a professional child minder or nanny, and you are being paid to take some children to a park to use the play area, should they pay for a license? Or if you are a professional dog walker and get paid for walking dogs in a park, should they pay for a license?[/p][/quote]Ha! People like you are the reason so many things hardly ever get done in this great city! Omnishambles_1
  • Score: 1

4:37pm Mon 13 Jan 14

Brighton1000 says...

Benji.uk wrote:
Fight_Back wrote:
rolivan wrote:
Meanwhile these same Taxpayers are expected to fund Cycle Lanes are they going to "Tax" the Cycle users for their construction and upkeep?
Good point. So the cycle lanes are built with money from motorists ( some who might be cyclists as well ) so surely cyclists should be charged for using them ?
Motorists do not pay for the roads we all do. everyone has the right to use them the 'Tax' a motorist pays is VED this is a tax on emissions, meaning ultra-efficient and electric cars, among others, pay nothing.
I pay £22 a year, ultra efficient car with almost zero CO2, im greener than i thought :)
[quote][p][bold]Benji.uk[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Fight_Back[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]rolivan[/bold] wrote: Meanwhile these same Taxpayers are expected to fund Cycle Lanes are they going to "Tax" the Cycle users for their construction and upkeep?[/p][/quote]Good point. So the cycle lanes are built with money from motorists ( some who might be cyclists as well ) so surely cyclists should be charged for using them ?[/p][/quote]Motorists do not pay for the roads we all do. everyone has the right to use them the 'Tax' a motorist pays is VED this is a tax on emissions, meaning ultra-efficient and electric cars, among others, pay nothing.[/p][/quote]I pay £22 a year, ultra efficient car with almost zero CO2, im greener than i thought :) Brighton1000
  • Score: -1

4:37pm Mon 13 Jan 14

aat99 says...

Fight_Back wrote:
Benji.uk wrote:
Fight_Back wrote:
rolivan wrote: Meanwhile these same Taxpayers are expected to fund Cycle Lanes are they going to "Tax" the Cycle users for their construction and upkeep?
Good point. So the cycle lanes are built with money from motorists ( some who might be cyclists as well ) so surely cyclists should be charged for using them ?
Motorists do not pay for the roads we all do. everyone has the right to use them the 'Tax' a motorist pays is VED this is a tax on emissions, meaning ultra-efficient and electric cars, among others, pay nothing.
If you bother to read my post properly you will see I didn't say motorists paid for the ROADS. I said they paid for the cycle lanes. I stated that because the revenue / profit from car parks, parking permits and parking fines is ringfenced for transport "improvements". These include cycle lanes - so motorists DO pay for cycle lanes.
do you pay for the pollution you cause ?
[quote][p][bold]Fight_Back[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Benji.uk[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Fight_Back[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]rolivan[/bold] wrote: Meanwhile these same Taxpayers are expected to fund Cycle Lanes are they going to "Tax" the Cycle users for their construction and upkeep?[/p][/quote]Good point. So the cycle lanes are built with money from motorists ( some who might be cyclists as well ) so surely cyclists should be charged for using them ?[/p][/quote]Motorists do not pay for the roads we all do. everyone has the right to use them the 'Tax' a motorist pays is VED this is a tax on emissions, meaning ultra-efficient and electric cars, among others, pay nothing.[/p][/quote]If you bother to read my post properly you will see I didn't say motorists paid for the ROADS. I said they paid for the cycle lanes. I stated that because the revenue / profit from car parks, parking permits and parking fines is ringfenced for transport "improvements". These include cycle lanes - so motorists DO pay for cycle lanes.[/p][/quote]do you pay for the pollution you cause ? aat99
  • Score: -4

4:56pm Mon 13 Jan 14

Fight_Back says...

aat99 wrote:
Fight_Back wrote:
Benji.uk wrote:
Fight_Back wrote:
rolivan wrote: Meanwhile these same Taxpayers are expected to fund Cycle Lanes are they going to "Tax" the Cycle users for their construction and upkeep?
Good point. So the cycle lanes are built with money from motorists ( some who might be cyclists as well ) so surely cyclists should be charged for using them ?
Motorists do not pay for the roads we all do. everyone has the right to use them the 'Tax' a motorist pays is VED this is a tax on emissions, meaning ultra-efficient and electric cars, among others, pay nothing.
If you bother to read my post properly you will see I didn't say motorists paid for the ROADS. I said they paid for the cycle lanes. I stated that because the revenue / profit from car parks, parking permits and parking fines is ringfenced for transport "improvements". These include cycle lanes - so motorists DO pay for cycle lanes.
do you pay for the pollution you cause ?
Yes motorists do - that's how the VED is calculated.

@Honest Fitness - I agree PTs shouldn't expect people to "give" then "their" space if where they want to use is already in use BUT even if a fee is paid, as a council tax payer, I would still expect it to be first come first served. Paying a fee shouldn't guarantee a particular area to a PT in a public space.
[quote][p][bold]aat99[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Fight_Back[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Benji.uk[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Fight_Back[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]rolivan[/bold] wrote: Meanwhile these same Taxpayers are expected to fund Cycle Lanes are they going to "Tax" the Cycle users for their construction and upkeep?[/p][/quote]Good point. So the cycle lanes are built with money from motorists ( some who might be cyclists as well ) so surely cyclists should be charged for using them ?[/p][/quote]Motorists do not pay for the roads we all do. everyone has the right to use them the 'Tax' a motorist pays is VED this is a tax on emissions, meaning ultra-efficient and electric cars, among others, pay nothing.[/p][/quote]If you bother to read my post properly you will see I didn't say motorists paid for the ROADS. I said they paid for the cycle lanes. I stated that because the revenue / profit from car parks, parking permits and parking fines is ringfenced for transport "improvements". These include cycle lanes - so motorists DO pay for cycle lanes.[/p][/quote]do you pay for the pollution you cause ?[/p][/quote]Yes motorists do - that's how the VED is calculated. @Honest Fitness - I agree PTs shouldn't expect people to "give" then "their" space if where they want to use is already in use BUT even if a fee is paid, as a council tax payer, I would still expect it to be first come first served. Paying a fee shouldn't guarantee a particular area to a PT in a public space. Fight_Back
  • Score: 4

5:04pm Mon 13 Jan 14

Hovite says...

Omnishambles_1 wrote:
Hovite wrote:
her professional wrote:
Fight_Back wrote:
I'm guessing Pete West ignores that the personal trainers pay council tax ?

For goodness sake, these spaces are PUBLIC spaces. Will councils ever stop trying to grab money from people ? What next, charge dog walkers because the council have to empty the poo bins ? Or maybe charge kids to use the swings ?

This really shows that this Green council are about - squeezing every penny out of people. How do they plan to enforce this charge ? What is to stop me turning up at Preston Park ( obviously after paying my ridiculous parking fee ) and using it for exercise with other people that I have organised to be there ? Why do youth clubs such as Cubs and Guides not have to pay when they run activities in public spaces ?

Really, the Greens have gone mad ( or should that be more mad ? ).
Nonsense. These people are running businesses, as you say in a public space, therefore they should be licensed and pay up, the same way as other traders have to. If they don't like it, lease some premises.
So if you are a professional child minder or nanny, and you are being paid to take some children to a park to use the play area, should they pay for a license?

Or if you are a professional dog walker and get paid for walking dogs in a park, should they pay for a license?
Ha! People like you are the reason so many things hardly ever get done in this great city!
And you're the type of person who is going to ride on the i360 every day.
[quote][p][bold]Omnishambles_1[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Hovite[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]her professional[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Fight_Back[/bold] wrote: I'm guessing Pete West ignores that the personal trainers pay council tax ? For goodness sake, these spaces are PUBLIC spaces. Will councils ever stop trying to grab money from people ? What next, charge dog walkers because the council have to empty the poo bins ? Or maybe charge kids to use the swings ? This really shows that this Green council are about - squeezing every penny out of people. How do they plan to enforce this charge ? What is to stop me turning up at Preston Park ( obviously after paying my ridiculous parking fee ) and using it for exercise with other people that I have organised to be there ? Why do youth clubs such as Cubs and Guides not have to pay when they run activities in public spaces ? Really, the Greens have gone mad ( or should that be more mad ? ).[/p][/quote]Nonsense. These people are running businesses, as you say in a public space, therefore they should be licensed and pay up, the same way as other traders have to. If they don't like it, lease some premises.[/p][/quote]So if you are a professional child minder or nanny, and you are being paid to take some children to a park to use the play area, should they pay for a license? Or if you are a professional dog walker and get paid for walking dogs in a park, should they pay for a license?[/p][/quote]Ha! People like you are the reason so many things hardly ever get done in this great city![/p][/quote]And you're the type of person who is going to ride on the i360 every day. Hovite
  • Score: 2

5:48pm Mon 13 Jan 14

Boloney-marshal says...

Is someone employed by the council and daily sitting in a little office thinking up even more outrageous ways of squeezing more money out of the public. What about charging joggers to run along the promenade or making people pay to eat fish and chips on public benches. I bet these so called council officials have a right laugh inventing these ridiculous new demands for cash and because most of the public are just sheeple they just put up with it and say nothing...
Is someone employed by the council and daily sitting in a little office thinking up even more outrageous ways of squeezing more money out of the public. What about charging joggers to run along the promenade or making people pay to eat fish and chips on public benches. I bet these so called council officials have a right laugh inventing these ridiculous new demands for cash and because most of the public are just sheeple they just put up with it and say nothing... Boloney-marshal
  • Score: 2

6:34pm Mon 13 Jan 14

NDL says...

Get a room! Cheapskate!
Get a room! Cheapskate! NDL
  • Score: 1

6:53pm Mon 13 Jan 14

KeithW1664 says...

I started British Military Fitness in Brighton so I thought you might like to know what we think as we are the original and biggest of these groups in the country. BMF have always submitted insurance and risk assessment documents annually to the council and we obtained permission to run our classes prior to actually starting over 10 years ago. All our instructors are fully qualified fitness instructors who are serving or former HM Forces. We pay 90% of the councils where we run our fitness classes a licence fee and we did this with Brighton & Hove up until a few years ago when they informed us they could no longer charge us. We have always been keen to pay licence fees as we want to (and should) contribute to the parks we use that the local council maintains. We see this as positive move by Brighton & Hove City council as it will regulate all outdoor fitness providers, protect those taking part in these fitness classes and look after the parks and open spaces that we use. When we run BMF classes they are split into smaller groups and are very mobile. This means we do not over use and damage the parks and also means we do not commandeer large parts of the parks or seafront for our classes, we have always had a policy of giving way to all other park users. Brighton parks are fantastic, the difference between now and when we started is amazing and it is brilliant the council have seen them as an asset to our community so we want to look after them and enjoy them as much as everyone else. Thanks Keith
I started British Military Fitness in Brighton so I thought you might like to know what we think as we are the original and biggest of these groups in the country. BMF have always submitted insurance and risk assessment documents annually to the council and we obtained permission to run our classes prior to actually starting over 10 years ago. All our instructors are fully qualified fitness instructors who are serving or former HM Forces. We pay 90% of the councils where we run our fitness classes a licence fee and we did this with Brighton & Hove up until a few years ago when they informed us they could no longer charge us. We have always been keen to pay licence fees as we want to (and should) contribute to the parks we use that the local council maintains. We see this as positive move by Brighton & Hove City council as it will regulate all outdoor fitness providers, protect those taking part in these fitness classes and look after the parks and open spaces that we use. When we run BMF classes they are split into smaller groups and are very mobile. This means we do not over use and damage the parks and also means we do not commandeer large parts of the parks or seafront for our classes, we have always had a policy of giving way to all other park users. Brighton parks are fantastic, the difference between now and when we started is amazing and it is brilliant the council have seen them as an asset to our community so we want to look after them and enjoy them as much as everyone else. Thanks Keith KeithW1664
  • Score: 19

9:35pm Mon 13 Jan 14

Bill in Hanover says...

getThisCoalitionOut wrote:
How long before there's a serious accident?

These are public parks and exercise classes should not be held in public places.

I nearly had an accident with someone from an exercising group in Hove Park.

This needs sorting out and fast.
Quite right too and ban those inconsiderate, unsafe people taking their kids to the parks and kicking a ball about with them, what are they thinking of someone could get hurt. I nearly had an accident at the Level today when some thuggish 5 year old yob kicked the ball in my direction, luckily it missed me by a mere 20 yards or I could have tripped over it. Come on Green Party sort it out!
[quote][p][bold]getThisCoalitionOut[/bold] wrote: How long before there's a serious accident? These are public parks and exercise classes should not be held in public places. I nearly had an accident with someone from an exercising group in Hove Park. This needs sorting out and fast.[/p][/quote]Quite right too and ban those inconsiderate, unsafe people taking their kids to the parks and kicking a ball about with them, what are they thinking of someone could get hurt. I nearly had an accident at the Level today when some thuggish 5 year old yob kicked the ball in my direction, luckily it missed me by a mere 20 yards or I could have tripped over it. Come on Green Party sort it out! Bill in Hanover
  • Score: 6

9:42pm Mon 13 Jan 14

melee says...

"It's pretty much in line with the long established practice of street traders needing to buy a licence from the council to conduct their business in public places."

Mmm, I'm not sure, because street traders are competing for business with shopkeepers who have to pay a lot for their premises. Fitness people are not taking business away from anyone else by using the park so I don't think it's the same thing.

I've got to say it does all seem a bit petty and nit-picky. Is it really that big a problem? Whenever I've been to the bigger parks like Hove Park or Preston Park there always seems to be plenty of space for everyone. If there is a problem perhaps a little common sense would be better? For example someone mentioned fitness people 'taking over' equipment so does this mean anyone not wanting to wait will be demanding to see licences? I think this could cause some ill-feeling to be honest.
"It's pretty much in line with the long established practice of street traders needing to buy a licence from the council to conduct their business in public places." Mmm, I'm not sure, because street traders are competing for business with shopkeepers who have to pay a lot for their premises. Fitness people are not taking business away from anyone else by using the park so I don't think it's the same thing. I've got to say it does all seem a bit petty and nit-picky. Is it really that big a problem? Whenever I've been to the bigger parks like Hove Park or Preston Park there always seems to be plenty of space for everyone. If there is a problem perhaps a little common sense would be better? For example someone mentioned fitness people 'taking over' equipment so does this mean anyone not wanting to wait will be demanding to see licences? I think this could cause some ill-feeling to be honest. melee
  • Score: 4

9:43pm Mon 13 Jan 14

Maxwell's Ghost says...

But if you are Spanish protesters setting up camp in Victoria Gardens you can take up a park burning pallets for weeks.
And if you are van dwellers you can park up in Freshfield Road for free and even leave your gas canisters on the pavement even when you haven't got a tax disc.
And if you are a hippy you can leave your van on the green space off Wilson Avenue and if you belong to the travelling community you can take up as much time in the parks depriving locals of their use for months on end even churning up the grass.
This council seems to fail with its equality policy. Once again tax payers and those earning a living are being hit while those who bring nothing to the icy get ignored.
These instructors should grow their hair into dreadlocks, wear camouflage clothing and steel toe capped boots and pretend they are hippies instead of fitness instructors and the Green Party will let them do whatever they like.
But if you are Spanish protesters setting up camp in Victoria Gardens you can take up a park burning pallets for weeks. And if you are van dwellers you can park up in Freshfield Road for free and even leave your gas canisters on the pavement even when you haven't got a tax disc. And if you are a hippy you can leave your van on the green space off Wilson Avenue and if you belong to the travelling community you can take up as much time in the parks depriving locals of their use for months on end even churning up the grass. This council seems to fail with its equality policy. Once again tax payers and those earning a living are being hit while those who bring nothing to the icy get ignored. These instructors should grow their hair into dreadlocks, wear camouflage clothing and steel toe capped boots and pretend they are hippies instead of fitness instructors and the Green Party will let them do whatever they like. Maxwell's Ghost
  • Score: 8

10:07pm Mon 13 Jan 14

melee says...

Well yes! When travellers spent the summer before last on playing fields near my house (after the police stood and watched them drive in then went to check if they were all ok), they left it filthy and looking like a ploughed field after they spent every evening racing their cars around it.
At least fitness instructors are using the playing fields for their intended purpose.
Well yes! When travellers spent the summer before last on playing fields near my house (after the police stood and watched them drive in then went to check if they were all ok), they left it filthy and looking like a ploughed field after they spent every evening racing their cars around it. At least fitness instructors are using the playing fields for their intended purpose. melee
  • Score: 10

12:55am Tue 14 Jan 14

Gribbet says...

getThisCoalitionOut wrote:
How long before there's a serious accident?

These are public parks and exercise classes should not be held in public places.

I nearly had an accident with someone from an exercising group in Hove Park.

This needs sorting out and fast.
So in other words, the 'accident' your talking about didn't actually happen and instead only took place in your imagination.
[quote][p][bold]getThisCoalitionOut[/bold] wrote: How long before there's a serious accident? These are public parks and exercise classes should not be held in public places. I nearly had an accident with someone from an exercising group in Hove Park. This needs sorting out and fast.[/p][/quote]So in other words, the 'accident' your talking about didn't actually happen and instead only took place in your imagination. Gribbet
  • Score: 2

12:59am Tue 14 Jan 14

Gribbet says...

rolivan wrote:
Meanwhile these same Taxpayers are expected to fund Cycle Lanes are they going to "Tax" the Cycle users for their construction and upkeep?
I think the people using the cycle lanes already pay the taxes that fund the cycle lanes (and the roads, parks and everything else), so yes.
[quote][p][bold]rolivan[/bold] wrote: Meanwhile these same Taxpayers are expected to fund Cycle Lanes are they going to "Tax" the Cycle users for their construction and upkeep?[/p][/quote]I think the people using the cycle lanes already pay the taxes that fund the cycle lanes (and the roads, parks and everything else), so yes. Gribbet
  • Score: -1

1:05am Tue 14 Jan 14

Gribbet says...

Brighton1000 wrote:
So they will tax (in effect) people working out on the lawns, What about taxing the cyclists and joggers that use the seafront too? Another nail in the greens coffin, keep em coming you idiots...
No, looks like you've misunderstood. People can work out for free, but the people charging others to join their classes in the parks will have to pay a license fee to go towards maintenance.
[quote][p][bold]Brighton1000[/bold] wrote: So they will tax (in effect) people working out on the lawns, What about taxing the cyclists and joggers that use the seafront too? Another nail in the greens coffin, keep em coming you idiots...[/p][/quote]No, looks like you've misunderstood. People can work out for free, but the people charging others to join their classes in the parks will have to pay a license fee to go towards maintenance. Gribbet
  • Score: 2

1:10am Tue 14 Jan 14

Gribbet says...

Fight_Back wrote:
rolivan wrote:
Meanwhile these same Taxpayers are expected to fund Cycle Lanes are they going to "Tax" the Cycle users for their construction and upkeep?
Good point. So the cycle lanes are built with money from motorists ( some who might be cyclists as well ) so surely cyclists should be charged for using them ?
^ I'm with stoopid. ^
[quote][p][bold]Fight_Back[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]rolivan[/bold] wrote: Meanwhile these same Taxpayers are expected to fund Cycle Lanes are they going to "Tax" the Cycle users for their construction and upkeep?[/p][/quote]Good point. So the cycle lanes are built with money from motorists ( some who might be cyclists as well ) so surely cyclists should be charged for using them ?[/p][/quote]^ I'm with stoopid. ^ Gribbet
  • Score: -1

1:27am Tue 14 Jan 14

Gribbet says...

Fight_Back wrote:
Benji.uk wrote:
Fight_Back wrote:
rolivan wrote:
Meanwhile these same Taxpayers are expected to fund Cycle Lanes are they going to "Tax" the Cycle users for their construction and upkeep?
Good point. So the cycle lanes are built with money from motorists ( some who might be cyclists as well ) so surely cyclists should be charged for using them ?
Motorists do not pay for the roads we all do. everyone has the right to use them the 'Tax' a motorist pays is VED this is a tax on emissions, meaning ultra-efficient and electric cars, among others, pay nothing.
If you bother to read my post properly you will see I didn't say motorists paid for the ROADS. I said they paid for the cycle lanes. I stated that because the revenue / profit from car parks, parking permits and parking fines is ringfenced for transport "improvements". These include cycle lanes - so motorists DO pay for cycle lanes.
Well considering that motoring is heavily subsidised by the wider tax paying public, it's good that the motorists are at least contributing something, even if they're not contributing willingly.

Here in the UK, fuel duty and its associated VAT along with vehicle excise duty contribute around £38bn a year to the Treasury's coffers, £10bn less than the estimated overall cost. Perhaps those parking fees are somewhat justified in the bigger picture.
[quote][p][bold]Fight_Back[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Benji.uk[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Fight_Back[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]rolivan[/bold] wrote: Meanwhile these same Taxpayers are expected to fund Cycle Lanes are they going to "Tax" the Cycle users for their construction and upkeep?[/p][/quote]Good point. So the cycle lanes are built with money from motorists ( some who might be cyclists as well ) so surely cyclists should be charged for using them ?[/p][/quote]Motorists do not pay for the roads we all do. everyone has the right to use them the 'Tax' a motorist pays is VED this is a tax on emissions, meaning ultra-efficient and electric cars, among others, pay nothing.[/p][/quote]If you bother to read my post properly you will see I didn't say motorists paid for the ROADS. I said they paid for the cycle lanes. I stated that because the revenue / profit from car parks, parking permits and parking fines is ringfenced for transport "improvements". These include cycle lanes - so motorists DO pay for cycle lanes.[/p][/quote]Well considering that motoring is heavily subsidised by the wider tax paying public, it's good that the motorists are at least contributing something, even if they're not contributing willingly. Here in the UK, fuel duty and its associated VAT along with vehicle excise duty contribute around £38bn a year to the Treasury's coffers, £10bn less than the estimated overall cost. Perhaps those parking fees are somewhat justified in the bigger picture. Gribbet
  • Score: 0

6:51am Tue 14 Jan 14

Maxwell's Ghost says...

What about professional dog walkers and child minders. Will these have to pay to use the parks too?
The trainers should just start using the cycle lanes the one on the Lewes road is empty most of the day.
What about professional dog walkers and child minders. Will these have to pay to use the parks too? The trainers should just start using the cycle lanes the one on the Lewes road is empty most of the day. Maxwell's Ghost
  • Score: 5

8:57am Tue 14 Jan 14

minnie&teddy says...

wow so many comments no need really I agree with the council to charge for using green spaces they are running a profitable service so should be charged a fee there are too many of these people in public places I say bring it on!!
wow so many comments no need really I agree with the council to charge for using green spaces they are running a profitable service so should be charged a fee there are too many of these people in public places I say bring it on!! minnie&teddy
  • Score: 0

9:27am Tue 14 Jan 14

ThinkBrighton says...

Whilst walking my dog in Hove Park, I came across a group of young boys who
were being shouted at by a military fitness moron, who told them they could not use the basket ball area as he was using it for his class.
The basket ball area is for basketball not fitness training, and I'm sure also the users of the park do not want to hear some of the comments these so called fitness trainers use. It is about time the council put some controls in place for these people.
Whilst walking my dog in Hove Park, I came across a group of young boys who were being shouted at by a military fitness moron, who told them they could not use the basket ball area as he was using it for his class. The basket ball area is for basketball not fitness training, and I'm sure also the users of the park do not want to hear some of the comments these so called fitness trainers use. It is about time the council put some controls in place for these people. ThinkBrighton
  • Score: 3

10:08am Tue 14 Jan 14

Brighton1000 says...

ThinkBrighton wrote:
Whilst walking my dog in Hove Park, I came across a group of young boys who
were being shouted at by a military fitness moron, who told them they could not use the basket ball area as he was using it for his class.
The basket ball area is for basketball not fitness training, and I'm sure also the users of the park do not want to hear some of the comments these so called fitness trainers use. It is about time the council put some controls in place for these people.
What a load of baloney. Why do people like you insist on making things up to blemish a reputable company? If what you say is true then in the same case, Football and Rugby and indeed basketball should be banned, due to the comments participants make, Is your life really that dull that you feel the need to make issues up, when the issue isnt really there in the first place? Reputable pt's will not have an issue paying a fee to use parks etc. This isnt really even an issue.
[quote][p][bold]ThinkBrighton[/bold] wrote: Whilst walking my dog in Hove Park, I came across a group of young boys who were being shouted at by a military fitness moron, who told them they could not use the basket ball area as he was using it for his class. The basket ball area is for basketball not fitness training, and I'm sure also the users of the park do not want to hear some of the comments these so called fitness trainers use. It is about time the council put some controls in place for these people.[/p][/quote]What a load of baloney. Why do people like you insist on making things up to blemish a reputable company? If what you say is true then in the same case, Football and Rugby and indeed basketball should be banned, due to the comments participants make, Is your life really that dull that you feel the need to make issues up, when the issue isnt really there in the first place? Reputable pt's will not have an issue paying a fee to use parks etc. This isnt really even an issue. Brighton1000
  • Score: -1

10:59am Tue 14 Jan 14

KeithW1664 says...

ThinkBrighton wrote:
Whilst walking my dog in Hove Park, I came across a group of young boys who
were being shouted at by a military fitness moron, who told them they could not use the basket ball area as he was using it for his class.
The basket ball area is for basketball not fitness training, and I'm sure also the users of the park do not want to hear some of the comments these so called fitness trainers use. It is about time the council put some controls in place for these people.
The "military moron" you are referring to is from The Military Preparation College which is a government funded scheme to give young people a look at military life before they take the plunge into it, they are not a fitness company.
[quote][p][bold]ThinkBrighton[/bold] wrote: Whilst walking my dog in Hove Park, I came across a group of young boys who were being shouted at by a military fitness moron, who told them they could not use the basket ball area as he was using it for his class. The basket ball area is for basketball not fitness training, and I'm sure also the users of the park do not want to hear some of the comments these so called fitness trainers use. It is about time the council put some controls in place for these people.[/p][/quote]The "military moron" you are referring to is from The Military Preparation College which is a government funded scheme to give young people a look at military life before they take the plunge into it, they are not a fitness company. KeithW1664
  • Score: 0

11:21am Tue 14 Jan 14

Glenda says...

Following this logic, will they also charge nannies, carers and paid dog walkers for getting fit in the fresh air?
Following this logic, will they also charge nannies, carers and paid dog walkers for getting fit in the fresh air? Glenda
  • Score: 0

3:23pm Tue 14 Jan 14

Seventh Circle says...

Many of these sessions run in parks cost upwards of £5.. with most of that going to the business as profit with minimal equipment or overheads..... in other words a rip off... it's about time these companies were charged for using council spaces... and while they're at it they should start charging people to swim in the sea...... £3.50 seems good..... and that's still £1 cheaper than the Prince Regent with all the filth floating around in there
Many of these sessions run in parks cost upwards of £5.. with most of that going to the business as profit with minimal equipment or overheads..... in other words a rip off... it's about time these companies were charged for using council spaces... and while they're at it they should start charging people to swim in the sea...... £3.50 seems good..... and that's still £1 cheaper than the Prince Regent with all the filth floating around in there Seventh Circle
  • Score: 1

3:42pm Tue 14 Jan 14

gheese77 says...

Fight_Back wrote:
Benji.uk wrote:
Fight_Back wrote:
rolivan wrote:
Meanwhile these same Taxpayers are expected to fund Cycle Lanes are they going to "Tax" the Cycle users for their construction and upkeep?
Good point. So the cycle lanes are built with money from motorists ( some who might be cyclists as well ) so surely cyclists should be charged for using them ?
Motorists do not pay for the roads we all do. everyone has the right to use them the 'Tax' a motorist pays is VED this is a tax on emissions, meaning ultra-efficient and electric cars, among others, pay nothing.
If you bother to read my post properly you will see I didn't say motorists paid for the ROADS. I said they paid for the cycle lanes. I stated that because the revenue / profit from car parks, parking permits and parking fines is ringfenced for transport "improvements". These include cycle lanes - so motorists DO pay for cycle lanes.
Which is exactly as it should be ! Cycle lanes are unfortunately necessary because cyclists are in danger from motor vehicles, if there was no motor traffic on the road we wouldn't need cycle lanes & don't forget the bicycle was here first. It is national government policy to encourage people out of cars and onto bicycles - if you don't like this then thats tough because its the policy of the 3 major parties so is unlikely to change.
[quote][p][bold]Fight_Back[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Benji.uk[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Fight_Back[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]rolivan[/bold] wrote: Meanwhile these same Taxpayers are expected to fund Cycle Lanes are they going to "Tax" the Cycle users for their construction and upkeep?[/p][/quote]Good point. So the cycle lanes are built with money from motorists ( some who might be cyclists as well ) so surely cyclists should be charged for using them ?[/p][/quote]Motorists do not pay for the roads we all do. everyone has the right to use them the 'Tax' a motorist pays is VED this is a tax on emissions, meaning ultra-efficient and electric cars, among others, pay nothing.[/p][/quote]If you bother to read my post properly you will see I didn't say motorists paid for the ROADS. I said they paid for the cycle lanes. I stated that because the revenue / profit from car parks, parking permits and parking fines is ringfenced for transport "improvements". These include cycle lanes - so motorists DO pay for cycle lanes.[/p][/quote]Which is exactly as it should be ! Cycle lanes are unfortunately necessary because cyclists are in danger from motor vehicles, if there was no motor traffic on the road we wouldn't need cycle lanes & don't forget the bicycle was here first. It is national government policy to encourage people out of cars and onto bicycles - if you don't like this then thats tough because its the policy of the 3 major parties so is unlikely to change. gheese77
  • Score: 0

5:26pm Tue 14 Jan 14

Pheasant pluckers son says...

Where will this end. Another stealth tax sneaking in. What exactly are these groups going to get for their money. Nicely mown stripped and boxed of grass, weed and dog mess free? Ropped off areas, changing rooms with showers? Very doubtfull. Sounds bit like having a enjoyment tax. I can't agree with the argument that it's a because they are running a business other wise the council should be charging all the professional dog walkers who walk/exercise other peoples dogs on council land for money. Now there's another idea !! We'll be taxed next for smiley and laughing whilst walking down the pavement next.
Where will this end. Another stealth tax sneaking in. What exactly are these groups going to get for their money. Nicely mown stripped and boxed of grass, weed and dog mess free? Ropped off areas, changing rooms with showers? Very doubtfull. Sounds bit like having a enjoyment tax. I can't agree with the argument that it's a because they are running a business other wise the council should be charging all the professional dog walkers who walk/exercise other peoples dogs on council land for money. Now there's another idea !! We'll be taxed next for smiley and laughing whilst walking down the pavement next. Pheasant pluckers son
  • Score: 1

5:30pm Tue 14 Jan 14

Brighton1000 says...

gheese77 wrote:
Fight_Back wrote:
Benji.uk wrote:
Fight_Back wrote:
rolivan wrote:
Meanwhile these same Taxpayers are expected to fund Cycle Lanes are they going to "Tax" the Cycle users for their construction and upkeep?
Good point. So the cycle lanes are built with money from motorists ( some who might be cyclists as well ) so surely cyclists should be charged for using them ?
Motorists do not pay for the roads we all do. everyone has the right to use them the 'Tax' a motorist pays is VED this is a tax on emissions, meaning ultra-efficient and electric cars, among others, pay nothing.
If you bother to read my post properly you will see I didn't say motorists paid for the ROADS. I said they paid for the cycle lanes. I stated that because the revenue / profit from car parks, parking permits and parking fines is ringfenced for transport "improvements". These include cycle lanes - so motorists DO pay for cycle lanes.
Which is exactly as it should be ! Cycle lanes are unfortunately necessary because cyclists are in danger from motor vehicles, if there was no motor traffic on the road we wouldn't need cycle lanes & don't forget the bicycle was here first. It is national government policy to encourage people out of cars and onto bicycles - if you don't like this then thats tough because its the policy of the 3 major parties so is unlikely to change.
If there was no motor traffic on the road we would be catapulted back into the dark ages and the UK would grind to a halt, the economy would go into total meltdown. Your point, is, at best, Completely ridiculous
[quote][p][bold]gheese77[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Fight_Back[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Benji.uk[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Fight_Back[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]rolivan[/bold] wrote: Meanwhile these same Taxpayers are expected to fund Cycle Lanes are they going to "Tax" the Cycle users for their construction and upkeep?[/p][/quote]Good point. So the cycle lanes are built with money from motorists ( some who might be cyclists as well ) so surely cyclists should be charged for using them ?[/p][/quote]Motorists do not pay for the roads we all do. everyone has the right to use them the 'Tax' a motorist pays is VED this is a tax on emissions, meaning ultra-efficient and electric cars, among others, pay nothing.[/p][/quote]If you bother to read my post properly you will see I didn't say motorists paid for the ROADS. I said they paid for the cycle lanes. I stated that because the revenue / profit from car parks, parking permits and parking fines is ringfenced for transport "improvements". These include cycle lanes - so motorists DO pay for cycle lanes.[/p][/quote]Which is exactly as it should be ! Cycle lanes are unfortunately necessary because cyclists are in danger from motor vehicles, if there was no motor traffic on the road we wouldn't need cycle lanes & don't forget the bicycle was here first. It is national government policy to encourage people out of cars and onto bicycles - if you don't like this then thats tough because its the policy of the 3 major parties so is unlikely to change.[/p][/quote]If there was no motor traffic on the road we would be catapulted back into the dark ages and the UK would grind to a halt, the economy would go into total meltdown. Your point, is, at best, Completely ridiculous Brighton1000
  • Score: 1

8:57pm Tue 14 Jan 14

cleggalike says...

KeithW1664 wrote:
I started British Military Fitness in Brighton so I thought you might like to know what we think as we are the original and biggest of these groups in the country. BMF have always submitted insurance and risk assessment documents annually to the council and we obtained permission to run our classes prior to actually starting over 10 years ago. All our instructors are fully qualified fitness instructors who are serving or former HM Forces. We pay 90% of the councils where we run our fitness classes a licence fee and we did this with Brighton & Hove up until a few years ago when they informed us they could no longer charge us. We have always been keen to pay licence fees as we want to (and should) contribute to the parks we use that the local council maintains. We see this as positive move by Brighton & Hove City council as it will regulate all outdoor fitness providers, protect those taking part in these fitness classes and look after the parks and open spaces that we use. When we run BMF classes they are split into smaller groups and are very mobile. This means we do not over use and damage the parks and also means we do not commandeer large parts of the parks or seafront for our classes, we have always had a policy of giving way to all other park users. Brighton parks are fantastic, the difference between now and when we started is amazing and it is brilliant the council have seen them as an asset to our community so we want to look after them and enjoy them as much as everyone else. Thanks Keith
Just to say, I am involved in Preston Park parkrun, which takes place every Saturday morning at 9.00 a.m. The BMF guys are in the park at the same time as our run, along with at least one other fitness training group (bfit), plus all the football training, and the dog walkers, and the tennis players, etc, etc. Everyone gets along just fine, and we all manage to co-exist quite happily, and it's just great to see so many people out in the park keeping fit in whatever way suits them It's really disappointing to read all these negative remarks - and Keith (as someone who will have to pay for a licence) makes the case in favour very eloquently.
[quote][p][bold]KeithW1664[/bold] wrote: I started British Military Fitness in Brighton so I thought you might like to know what we think as we are the original and biggest of these groups in the country. BMF have always submitted insurance and risk assessment documents annually to the council and we obtained permission to run our classes prior to actually starting over 10 years ago. All our instructors are fully qualified fitness instructors who are serving or former HM Forces. We pay 90% of the councils where we run our fitness classes a licence fee and we did this with Brighton & Hove up until a few years ago when they informed us they could no longer charge us. We have always been keen to pay licence fees as we want to (and should) contribute to the parks we use that the local council maintains. We see this as positive move by Brighton & Hove City council as it will regulate all outdoor fitness providers, protect those taking part in these fitness classes and look after the parks and open spaces that we use. When we run BMF classes they are split into smaller groups and are very mobile. This means we do not over use and damage the parks and also means we do not commandeer large parts of the parks or seafront for our classes, we have always had a policy of giving way to all other park users. Brighton parks are fantastic, the difference between now and when we started is amazing and it is brilliant the council have seen them as an asset to our community so we want to look after them and enjoy them as much as everyone else. Thanks Keith[/p][/quote]Just to say, I am involved in Preston Park parkrun, which takes place every Saturday morning at 9.00 a.m. The BMF guys are in the park at the same time as our run, along with at least one other fitness training group (bfit), plus all the football training, and the dog walkers, and the tennis players, etc, etc. Everyone gets along just fine, and we all manage to co-exist quite happily, and it's just great to see so many people out in the park keeping fit in whatever way suits them It's really disappointing to read all these negative remarks - and Keith (as someone who will have to pay for a licence) makes the case in favour very eloquently. cleggalike
  • Score: 6

12:20am Wed 15 Jan 14

brightonpip says...

Fight_Back wrote:
I'm guessing Pete West ignores that the personal trainers pay council tax ?

For goodness sake, these spaces are PUBLIC spaces. Will councils ever stop trying to grab money from people ? What next, charge dog walkers because the council have to empty the poo bins ? Or maybe charge kids to use the swings ?

This really shows that this Green council are about - squeezing every penny out of people. How do they plan to enforce this charge ? What is to stop me turning up at Preston Park ( obviously after paying my ridiculous parking fee ) and using it for exercise with other people that I have organised to be there ? Why do youth clubs such as Cubs and Guides not have to pay when they run activities in public spaces ?

Really, the Greens have gone mad ( or should that be more mad ? ).
I assume these fitness clubs and trainers charge for their classes, and as such are making a profit out of using PUBLIC space for free. The grass in my local park is almost gone and turned to mud in areas used by these so called boot camps. Why shouldn't they pay a small charge to contribute to the additional maintenance that their activities cause? Of course non profit groups and individuals shouldn't be charged but surely there is a valid case for those making money from our parks and open spaces to give some of their profits back to the community.
[quote][p][bold]Fight_Back[/bold] wrote: I'm guessing Pete West ignores that the personal trainers pay council tax ? For goodness sake, these spaces are PUBLIC spaces. Will councils ever stop trying to grab money from people ? What next, charge dog walkers because the council have to empty the poo bins ? Or maybe charge kids to use the swings ? This really shows that this Green council are about - squeezing every penny out of people. How do they plan to enforce this charge ? What is to stop me turning up at Preston Park ( obviously after paying my ridiculous parking fee ) and using it for exercise with other people that I have organised to be there ? Why do youth clubs such as Cubs and Guides not have to pay when they run activities in public spaces ? Really, the Greens have gone mad ( or should that be more mad ? ).[/p][/quote]I assume these fitness clubs and trainers charge for their classes, and as such are making a profit out of using PUBLIC space for free. The grass in my local park is almost gone and turned to mud in areas used by these so called boot camps. Why shouldn't they pay a small charge to contribute to the additional maintenance that their activities cause? Of course non profit groups and individuals shouldn't be charged but surely there is a valid case for those making money from our parks and open spaces to give some of their profits back to the community. brightonpip
  • Score: 0

1:02am Wed 15 Jan 14

Gribbet says...

Pheasant pluckers son wrote:
Where will this end. Another stealth tax sneaking in. What exactly are these groups going to get for their money. Nicely mown stripped and boxed of grass, weed and dog mess free? Ropped off areas, changing rooms with showers? Very doubtfull. Sounds bit like having a enjoyment tax. I can't agree with the argument that it's a because they are running a business other wise the council should be charging all the professional dog walkers who walk/exercise other peoples dogs on council land for money. Now there's another idea !! We'll be taxed next for smiley and laughing whilst walking down the pavement next.
lol
[quote][p][bold]Pheasant pluckers son[/bold] wrote: Where will this end. Another stealth tax sneaking in. What exactly are these groups going to get for their money. Nicely mown stripped and boxed of grass, weed and dog mess free? Ropped off areas, changing rooms with showers? Very doubtfull. Sounds bit like having a enjoyment tax. I can't agree with the argument that it's a because they are running a business other wise the council should be charging all the professional dog walkers who walk/exercise other peoples dogs on council land for money. Now there's another idea !! We'll be taxed next for smiley and laughing whilst walking down the pavement next.[/p][/quote]lol Gribbet
  • Score: 0

9:24am Wed 15 Jan 14

ThinkBrighton says...

KeithW1664 wrote:
ThinkBrighton wrote:
Whilst walking my dog in Hove Park, I came across a group of young boys who
were being shouted at by a military fitness moron, who told them they could not use the basket ball area as he was using it for his class.
The basket ball area is for basketball not fitness training, and I'm sure also the users of the park do not want to hear some of the comments these so called fitness trainers use. It is about time the council put some controls in place for these people.
The "military moron" you are referring to is from The Military Preparation College which is a government funded scheme to give young people a look at military life before they take the plunge into it, they are not a fitness company.
So that's who teaches them to have no regard for other park users and shout as they do, and get government funding, amazing!
[quote][p][bold]KeithW1664[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]ThinkBrighton[/bold] wrote: Whilst walking my dog in Hove Park, I came across a group of young boys who were being shouted at by a military fitness moron, who told them they could not use the basket ball area as he was using it for his class. The basket ball area is for basketball not fitness training, and I'm sure also the users of the park do not want to hear some of the comments these so called fitness trainers use. It is about time the council put some controls in place for these people.[/p][/quote]The "military moron" you are referring to is from The Military Preparation College which is a government funded scheme to give young people a look at military life before they take the plunge into it, they are not a fitness company.[/p][/quote]So that's who teaches them to have no regard for other park users and shout as they do, and get government funding, amazing! ThinkBrighton
  • Score: 0

9:26am Wed 15 Jan 14

ThinkBrighton says...

Brighton1000 wrote:
ThinkBrighton wrote:
Whilst walking my dog in Hove Park, I came across a group of young boys who
were being shouted at by a military fitness moron, who told them they could not use the basket ball area as he was using it for his class.
The basket ball area is for basketball not fitness training, and I'm sure also the users of the park do not want to hear some of the comments these so called fitness trainers use. It is about time the council put some controls in place for these people.
What a load of baloney. Why do people like you insist on making things up to blemish a reputable company? If what you say is true then in the same case, Football and Rugby and indeed basketball should be banned, due to the comments participants make, Is your life really that dull that you feel the need to make issues up, when the issue isnt really there in the first place? Reputable pt's will not have an issue paying a fee to use parks etc. This isnt really even an issue.
There speaks a moron, I just quoted FACT.
[quote][p][bold]Brighton1000[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]ThinkBrighton[/bold] wrote: Whilst walking my dog in Hove Park, I came across a group of young boys who were being shouted at by a military fitness moron, who told them they could not use the basket ball area as he was using it for his class. The basket ball area is for basketball not fitness training, and I'm sure also the users of the park do not want to hear some of the comments these so called fitness trainers use. It is about time the council put some controls in place for these people.[/p][/quote]What a load of baloney. Why do people like you insist on making things up to blemish a reputable company? If what you say is true then in the same case, Football and Rugby and indeed basketball should be banned, due to the comments participants make, Is your life really that dull that you feel the need to make issues up, when the issue isnt really there in the first place? Reputable pt's will not have an issue paying a fee to use parks etc. This isnt really even an issue.[/p][/quote]There speaks a moron, I just quoted FACT. ThinkBrighton
  • Score: 2

11:50am Wed 15 Jan 14

Fairfax Aches says...

Fight_Back wrote:
Fairfax Aches wrote: This is a (unusually) sensible option based on the simple principle of distinguishing between the use of public spaces for private or commercial reasons. Have as many group sessions as you want, but if you wish to take space away from others in the pursuit of profit, you should have to pay!
And yet every time I've been past both Hove Park and Preston Park when this has been going on there has been ACRES of space for everyone else. Barmy idea from a barmy council. Let's see, if the fitness classes didn't take place there the council would still have to : > Cut the grass ( although they are getting rather lax on this anyway ) > Empty the bins > Maintain the flower beds > Maintain the paths and roadways So there are no extra costs to these people using it so why charge them ? Still nobody has explained how it will be enforced either ?
Lets ignore the fact that your opinions are based on a rather erroneous grasp of economics, and your vocal opposition to the logic of the argument seems to indicate a vested interest somewhere.

On The "dog walker/child minder" point- well yes this a good question. However just becuase a grey area exists does not invalidate the original principle automatically. No issue on earth is black and white!

I would say that if any profit making entity wishes to use public space as it's PRIMARY location, then yes, some form of license to contribute to this should be required. Its really not that difficult to identify...VAT is categorised by product type for example. How do you police it? Well how does society police anything ? By a combination of reliance on morality, monitoring, and enforcement.
Next question?
[quote][p][bold]Fight_Back[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Fairfax Aches[/bold] wrote: This is a (unusually) sensible option based on the simple principle of distinguishing between the use of public spaces for private or commercial reasons. Have as many group sessions as you want, but if you wish to take space away from others in the pursuit of profit, you should have to pay![/p][/quote]And yet every time I've been past both Hove Park and Preston Park when this has been going on there has been ACRES of space for everyone else. Barmy idea from a barmy council. Let's see, if the fitness classes didn't take place there the council would still have to : > Cut the grass ( although they are getting rather lax on this anyway ) > Empty the bins > Maintain the flower beds > Maintain the paths and roadways So there are no extra costs to these people using it so why charge them ? Still nobody has explained how it will be enforced either ?[/p][/quote]Lets ignore the fact that your opinions are based on a rather erroneous grasp of economics, and your vocal opposition to the logic of the argument seems to indicate a vested interest somewhere. On The "dog walker/child minder" point- well yes this a good question. However just becuase a grey area exists does not invalidate the original principle automatically. No issue on earth is black and white! I would say that if any profit making entity wishes to use public space as it's PRIMARY location, then yes, some form of license to contribute to this should be required. Its really not that difficult to identify...VAT is categorised by product type for example. How do you police it? Well how does society police anything ? By a combination of reliance on morality, monitoring, and enforcement. Next question? Fairfax Aches
  • Score: 2

6:19pm Thu 16 Jan 14

Brighton1000 says...

http://www.brightona



ndhovenews.org/2014/



01/16/labour-tables-



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nfidence-in-brighton



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http://www.brightona ndhovenews.org/2014/ 01/16/labour-tables- formal-vote-of-no-co nfidence-in-brighton -and-hoves-ruling-gr eens/26722?utm_sourc e=twitterfeed&ut m_me dium=twitter Brighton1000
  • Score: 0

11:22pm Thu 16 Jan 14

brightonpip says...

Gribbet wrote:
Pheasant pluckers son wrote:
Where will this end. Another stealth tax sneaking in. What exactly are these groups going to get for their money. Nicely mown stripped and boxed of grass, weed and dog mess free? Ropped off areas, changing rooms with showers? Very doubtfull. Sounds bit like having a enjoyment tax. I can't agree with the argument that it's a because they are running a business other wise the council should be charging all the professional dog walkers who walk/exercise other peoples dogs on council land for money. Now there's another idea !! We'll be taxed next for smiley and laughing whilst walking down the pavement next.
lol
Are you serious? It's not about getting anything extra it's surely about these groups profiting from using public resources for free. One local 'boot camp'. Charges around £40 a month for membership, meaning it needs just 30 members to rake in £15,000 a year. What's wrong with them paying a small part of that back to pay for the additional maintenance their activities create. I guess there are also public liability and insurance issues as well.

I agree about professional dog walkers but not sure how you could distinguish them from individual owners. Several local authorities do limit the number of dogs an individual can walk at any one time to discourage those walkers who like to maximize their profits by walking whole packs of pets together.
[quote][p][bold]Gribbet[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Pheasant pluckers son[/bold] wrote: Where will this end. Another stealth tax sneaking in. What exactly are these groups going to get for their money. Nicely mown stripped and boxed of grass, weed and dog mess free? Ropped off areas, changing rooms with showers? Very doubtfull. Sounds bit like having a enjoyment tax. I can't agree with the argument that it's a because they are running a business other wise the council should be charging all the professional dog walkers who walk/exercise other peoples dogs on council land for money. Now there's another idea !! We'll be taxed next for smiley and laughing whilst walking down the pavement next.[/p][/quote]lol[/p][/quote]Are you serious? It's not about getting anything extra it's surely about these groups profiting from using public resources for free. One local 'boot camp'. Charges around £40 a month for membership, meaning it needs just 30 members to rake in £15,000 a year. What's wrong with them paying a small part of that back to pay for the additional maintenance their activities create. I guess there are also public liability and insurance issues as well. I agree about professional dog walkers but not sure how you could distinguish them from individual owners. Several local authorities do limit the number of dogs an individual can walk at any one time to discourage those walkers who like to maximize their profits by walking whole packs of pets together. brightonpip
  • Score: 0

10:37am Tue 21 Jan 14

hovian says...

Fight_Back wrote:
Fairfax Aches wrote:
This is a (unusually) sensible option based on the simple principle of distinguishing between the use of public spaces for private or commercial reasons. Have as many group sessions as you want, but if you wish to take space away from others in the pursuit of profit, you should have to pay!
And yet every time I've been past both Hove Park and Preston Park when this has been going on there has been ACRES of space for everyone else. Barmy idea from a barmy council.

Let's see, if the fitness classes didn't take place there the council would still have to :

> Cut the grass ( although they are getting rather lax on this anyway )
> Empty the bins
> Maintain the flower beds
> Maintain the paths and roadways

So there are no extra costs to these people using it so why charge them ? Still nobody has explained how it will be enforced either ?
There actually are extra costs in places like The Lawns where much of the grass has been damaged by football games, workout sessions etc. If you're running a business on the the Lawns why shouldn't you pay towards the cost of repairs etc?
[quote][p][bold]Fight_Back[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Fairfax Aches[/bold] wrote: This is a (unusually) sensible option based on the simple principle of distinguishing between the use of public spaces for private or commercial reasons. Have as many group sessions as you want, but if you wish to take space away from others in the pursuit of profit, you should have to pay![/p][/quote]And yet every time I've been past both Hove Park and Preston Park when this has been going on there has been ACRES of space for everyone else. Barmy idea from a barmy council. Let's see, if the fitness classes didn't take place there the council would still have to : > Cut the grass ( although they are getting rather lax on this anyway ) > Empty the bins > Maintain the flower beds > Maintain the paths and roadways So there are no extra costs to these people using it so why charge them ? Still nobody has explained how it will be enforced either ?[/p][/quote]There actually are extra costs in places like The Lawns where much of the grass has been damaged by football games, workout sessions etc. If you're running a business on the the Lawns why shouldn't you pay towards the cost of repairs etc? hovian
  • Score: 1

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