The ArgusCaroline Lucas slams bus fare increase (From The Argus)

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Caroline Lucas slams bus fare increase

The Argus: Caroline Lucas slame bus fare increase Caroline Lucas slame bus fare increase

An MP has said the “shocking” bus ticket rise has made a firmer case to bring public transport back into public ownership.

Brighton Pavilion MP Caroline Lucas reacted after The Argus reported on Thursday that Brighton and Hove Buses will increase fares by 10p from April 13.

Comments (58)

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12:07pm Tue 1 Apr 14

SRN BGH says...

So it must be coming up to election time what a surprise this lady is aware of what is going on the Brighton
So it must be coming up to election time what a surprise this lady is aware of what is going on the Brighton SRN BGH
  • Score: 37

12:09pm Tue 1 Apr 14

Goldenwight says...

How much does Ms Lucas pay for her annual (first class) rail season ticket to London, please, and how much has that increased since privatization? I believe the answer to both is 'nil'- and that is in addition to an expenses claim of over £30,000 a year which is subject to minimal audit and checking.

With respect, the woman has absolutely no idea what she is talking about.

I would venture to suggest that the majority of bus users use some form of season ticket or travel pass anyway, so in any event this inflationary rise is not going to send hordes of commuters out on the streets with cardboard signs begging for change.
How much does Ms Lucas pay for her annual (first class) rail season ticket to London, please, and how much has that increased since privatization? I believe the answer to both is 'nil'- and that is in addition to an expenses claim of over £30,000 a year which is subject to minimal audit and checking. With respect, the woman has absolutely no idea what she is talking about. I would venture to suggest that the majority of bus users use some form of season ticket or travel pass anyway, so in any event this inflationary rise is not going to send hordes of commuters out on the streets with cardboard signs begging for change. Goldenwight
  • Score: 24

12:40pm Tue 1 Apr 14

DaRMiH says...

Great idea. But maybe we could start with renationalising the power companies
Great idea. But maybe we could start with renationalising the power companies DaRMiH
  • Score: 34

12:52pm Tue 1 Apr 14

NickBtn says...

The green council has some responsibility for this rise - so is Ms Lucas trying to deflect the blame? The greens have given more of the roads across to the effective monopoly of Brighton and Hove buses - yet without negotiation on prices etc. The bus company has repeatedly run rings around the council. Yes, the council has few powers directly on pricing but they do hold a number of strong cards particularly bus lanes

As fuel prices are falling so should bus fares (as fuel increases were used as reason for previous rises). The council should allow bus lanes for all road users until prices fall. There is no way that our fares should be higher than London fares yet they are - this should be used as the benchmark - we should be at London minus 10 or 20%. Until we reach that level, bus lanes open to all. Bet the bus company could magically find savings with that kind of negotiating stance. So go on greens, fight for public transport! It's in your power (where nationalisation isn't). You can make a difference if you try....
The green council has some responsibility for this rise - so is Ms Lucas trying to deflect the blame? The greens have given more of the roads across to the effective monopoly of Brighton and Hove buses - yet without negotiation on prices etc. The bus company has repeatedly run rings around the council. Yes, the council has few powers directly on pricing but they do hold a number of strong cards particularly bus lanes As fuel prices are falling so should bus fares (as fuel increases were used as reason for previous rises). The council should allow bus lanes for all road users until prices fall. There is no way that our fares should be higher than London fares yet they are - this should be used as the benchmark - we should be at London minus 10 or 20%. Until we reach that level, bus lanes open to all. Bet the bus company could magically find savings with that kind of negotiating stance. So go on greens, fight for public transport! It's in your power (where nationalisation isn't). You can make a difference if you try.... NickBtn
  • Score: 50

12:59pm Tue 1 Apr 14

Morpheus says...

DaRMiH wrote:
Great idea. But maybe we could start with renationalising the power companies
Have you got any suggestions about where the money would come from to nationalise all these services? What is great about nationalisation? Inefficient companies that cost us more than private enterprise. I worked for both and if you want a boring job with no pressure then public services will suit you. If you want an exciting job with responsibility nothing beats private business.
[quote][p][bold]DaRMiH[/bold] wrote: Great idea. But maybe we could start with renationalising the power companies[/p][/quote]Have you got any suggestions about where the money would come from to nationalise all these services? What is great about nationalisation? Inefficient companies that cost us more than private enterprise. I worked for both and if you want a boring job with no pressure then public services will suit you. If you want an exciting job with responsibility nothing beats private business. Morpheus
  • Score: -15

1:09pm Tue 1 Apr 14

ThinkBrighton says...

All the time this stupid person has been an MP, where she hasn't had a sensible word about the City in general, has been arrested, but now the comes first sensible comment she has made in how long - I feel an election coming!
All the time this stupid person has been an MP, where she hasn't had a sensible word about the City in general, has been arrested, but now the comes first sensible comment she has made in how long - I feel an election coming! ThinkBrighton
  • Score: 19

1:33pm Tue 1 Apr 14

her professional says...

NickBtn wrote:
The green council has some responsibility for this rise - so is Ms Lucas trying to deflect the blame? The greens have given more of the roads across to the effective monopoly of Brighton and Hove buses - yet without negotiation on prices etc. The bus company has repeatedly run rings around the council. Yes, the council has few powers directly on pricing but they do hold a number of strong cards particularly bus lanes

As fuel prices are falling so should bus fares (as fuel increases were used as reason for previous rises). The council should allow bus lanes for all road users until prices fall. There is no way that our fares should be higher than London fares yet they are - this should be used as the benchmark - we should be at London minus 10 or 20%. Until we reach that level, bus lanes open to all. Bet the bus company could magically find savings with that kind of negotiating stance. So go on greens, fight for public transport! It's in your power (where nationalisation isn't). You can make a difference if you try....
London fares are heavily subsidised, you can argue whether this is a good or bad thing, but it's not comparable bus operations in cities and towns outside the capital.
[quote][p][bold]NickBtn[/bold] wrote: The green council has some responsibility for this rise - so is Ms Lucas trying to deflect the blame? The greens have given more of the roads across to the effective monopoly of Brighton and Hove buses - yet without negotiation on prices etc. The bus company has repeatedly run rings around the council. Yes, the council has few powers directly on pricing but they do hold a number of strong cards particularly bus lanes As fuel prices are falling so should bus fares (as fuel increases were used as reason for previous rises). The council should allow bus lanes for all road users until prices fall. There is no way that our fares should be higher than London fares yet they are - this should be used as the benchmark - we should be at London minus 10 or 20%. Until we reach that level, bus lanes open to all. Bet the bus company could magically find savings with that kind of negotiating stance. So go on greens, fight for public transport! It's in your power (where nationalisation isn't). You can make a difference if you try....[/p][/quote]London fares are heavily subsidised, you can argue whether this is a good or bad thing, but it's not comparable bus operations in cities and towns outside the capital. her professional
  • Score: -10

1:48pm Tue 1 Apr 14

brighton bluenose says...

SRN BGH wrote:
So it must be coming up to election time what a surprise this lady is aware of what is going on the Brighton
She is actually a good constituency MP - but unfortunately some of these contributors haven't got a clue!!
[quote][p][bold]SRN BGH[/bold] wrote: So it must be coming up to election time what a surprise this lady is aware of what is going on the Brighton[/p][/quote]She is actually a good constituency MP - but unfortunately some of these contributors haven't got a clue!! brighton bluenose
  • Score: -42

1:52pm Tue 1 Apr 14

brighton bluenose says...

NickBtn wrote:
The green council has some responsibility for this rise - so is Ms Lucas trying to deflect the blame? The greens have given more of the roads across to the effective monopoly of Brighton and Hove buses - yet without negotiation on prices etc. The bus company has repeatedly run rings around the council. Yes, the council has few powers directly on pricing but they do hold a number of strong cards particularly bus lanes

As fuel prices are falling so should bus fares (as fuel increases were used as reason for previous rises). The council should allow bus lanes for all road users until prices fall. There is no way that our fares should be higher than London fares yet they are - this should be used as the benchmark - we should be at London minus 10 or 20%. Until we reach that level, bus lanes open to all. Bet the bus company could magically find savings with that kind of negotiating stance. So go on greens, fight for public transport! It's in your power (where nationalisation isn't). You can make a difference if you try....
Perhaps you want to clarify why B&H bus fares should be your arbitrary 10 or 20% lower than London?!
[quote][p][bold]NickBtn[/bold] wrote: The green council has some responsibility for this rise - so is Ms Lucas trying to deflect the blame? The greens have given more of the roads across to the effective monopoly of Brighton and Hove buses - yet without negotiation on prices etc. The bus company has repeatedly run rings around the council. Yes, the council has few powers directly on pricing but they do hold a number of strong cards particularly bus lanes As fuel prices are falling so should bus fares (as fuel increases were used as reason for previous rises). The council should allow bus lanes for all road users until prices fall. There is no way that our fares should be higher than London fares yet they are - this should be used as the benchmark - we should be at London minus 10 or 20%. Until we reach that level, bus lanes open to all. Bet the bus company could magically find savings with that kind of negotiating stance. So go on greens, fight for public transport! It's in your power (where nationalisation isn't). You can make a difference if you try....[/p][/quote]Perhaps you want to clarify why B&H bus fares should be your arbitrary 10 or 20% lower than London?! brighton bluenose
  • Score: -37

2:03pm Tue 1 Apr 14

DC Brighton says...

Fares went up not that long ago so this seems cheeky at best BUT perhaps she ought to compare bus fares and parking charges before suddenly pretending to know or care anything about traffic in travelling in and around Brighton.
Fares went up not that long ago so this seems cheeky at best BUT perhaps she ought to compare bus fares and parking charges before suddenly pretending to know or care anything about traffic in travelling in and around Brighton. DC Brighton
  • Score: 29

2:28pm Tue 1 Apr 14

Green_Girl_1990 says...

Vote for the best! ALWAYS the best!

Vote Caroline Lucas! Vote Green Party!
Vote for the best! ALWAYS the best! Vote Caroline Lucas! Vote Green Party! Green_Girl_1990
  • Score: -72

2:40pm Tue 1 Apr 14

Richada says...

Green_Girl_1990 wrote:
Vote for the best! ALWAYS the best!

Vote Caroline Lucas! Vote Green Party!
Having been, presumably, born in 1990, luckily for you, you're far too young to remember how badly Britain ran under Nationalised industries in the 70's and 80's.

Can we have some more original trolling please? You used to be funny, now it's a cut and paste of the same comment.
[quote][p][bold]Green_Girl_1990[/bold] wrote: Vote for the best! ALWAYS the best! Vote Caroline Lucas! Vote Green Party![/p][/quote]Having been, presumably, born in 1990, luckily for you, you're far too young to remember how badly Britain ran under Nationalised industries in the 70's and 80's. Can we have some more original trolling please? You used to be funny, now it's a cut and paste of the same comment. Richada
  • Score: 17

2:48pm Tue 1 Apr 14

Green_Girl_1990 says...

Richada wrote:
Green_Girl_1990 wrote:
Vote for the best! ALWAYS the best!

Vote Caroline Lucas! Vote Green Party!
Having been, presumably, born in 1990, luckily for you, you're far too young to remember how badly Britain ran under Nationalised industries in the 70's and 80's.

Can we have some more original trolling please? You used to be funny, now it's a cut and paste of the same comment.
Let me make something very, VERY clear to you.

Do you realise that we have already started campaigning on BOTH university campuses? I am a member of 'Green Students' and we are more than confident that Brighton students will be voting for the Green Party in abundance.

The fact of the matter is that at the next election, the Green Party will be returned to power in Brighton; rather than complaining like a little girl with a grazed knee, better for you that you just ACCEPT IT.
[quote][p][bold]Richada[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Green_Girl_1990[/bold] wrote: Vote for the best! ALWAYS the best! Vote Caroline Lucas! Vote Green Party![/p][/quote]Having been, presumably, born in 1990, luckily for you, you're far too young to remember how badly Britain ran under Nationalised industries in the 70's and 80's. Can we have some more original trolling please? You used to be funny, now it's a cut and paste of the same comment.[/p][/quote]Let me make something very, VERY clear to you. Do you realise that we have already started campaigning on BOTH university campuses? I am a member of 'Green Students' and we are more than confident that Brighton students will be voting for the Green Party in abundance. The fact of the matter is that at the next election, the Green Party will be returned to power in Brighton; rather than complaining like a little girl with a grazed knee, better for you that you just ACCEPT IT. Green_Girl_1990
  • Score: -63

3:02pm Tue 1 Apr 14

ARMANA says...

brighton bluenose wrote:
SRN BGH wrote:
So it must be coming up to election time what a surprise this lady is aware of what is going on the Brighton
She is actually a good constituency MP - but unfortunately some of these contributors haven't got a clue!!
Usual Bollxxx from brown nose, !!!
[quote][p][bold]brighton bluenose[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]SRN BGH[/bold] wrote: So it must be coming up to election time what a surprise this lady is aware of what is going on the Brighton[/p][/quote]She is actually a good constituency MP - but unfortunately some of these contributors haven't got a clue!![/p][/quote]Usual Bollxxx from brown nose, !!! ARMANA
  • Score: 17

3:06pm Tue 1 Apr 14

Vigilia says...

Green_Girl_1990 wrote:
Richada wrote:
Green_Girl_1990 wrote:
Vote for the best! ALWAYS the best!

Vote Caroline Lucas! Vote Green Party!
Having been, presumably, born in 1990, luckily for you, you're far too young to remember how badly Britain ran under Nationalised industries in the 70's and 80's.

Can we have some more original trolling please? You used to be funny, now it's a cut and paste of the same comment.
Let me make something very, VERY clear to you.

Do you realise that we have already started campaigning on BOTH university campuses? I am a member of 'Green Students' and we are more than confident that Brighton students will be voting for the Green Party in abundance.

The fact of the matter is that at the next election, the Green Party will be returned to power in Brighton; rather than complaining like a little girl with a grazed knee, better for you that you just ACCEPT IT.
In your dreams, Sweet Pea.
[quote][p][bold]Green_Girl_1990[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Richada[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Green_Girl_1990[/bold] wrote: Vote for the best! ALWAYS the best! Vote Caroline Lucas! Vote Green Party![/p][/quote]Having been, presumably, born in 1990, luckily for you, you're far too young to remember how badly Britain ran under Nationalised industries in the 70's and 80's. Can we have some more original trolling please? You used to be funny, now it's a cut and paste of the same comment.[/p][/quote]Let me make something very, VERY clear to you. Do you realise that we have already started campaigning on BOTH university campuses? I am a member of 'Green Students' and we are more than confident that Brighton students will be voting for the Green Party in abundance. The fact of the matter is that at the next election, the Green Party will be returned to power in Brighton; rather than complaining like a little girl with a grazed knee, better for you that you just ACCEPT IT.[/p][/quote]In your dreams, Sweet Pea. Vigilia
  • Score: 36

3:23pm Tue 1 Apr 14

Green_Girl_1990 says...

Vigilia wrote:
Green_Girl_1990 wrote:
Richada wrote:
Green_Girl_1990 wrote:
Vote for the best! ALWAYS the best!

Vote Caroline Lucas! Vote Green Party!
Having been, presumably, born in 1990, luckily for you, you're far too young to remember how badly Britain ran under Nationalised industries in the 70's and 80's.

Can we have some more original trolling please? You used to be funny, now it's a cut and paste of the same comment.
Let me make something very, VERY clear to you.

Do you realise that we have already started campaigning on BOTH university campuses? I am a member of 'Green Students' and we are more than confident that Brighton students will be voting for the Green Party in abundance.

The fact of the matter is that at the next election, the Green Party will be returned to power in Brighton; rather than complaining like a little girl with a grazed knee, better for you that you just ACCEPT IT.
In your dreams, Sweet Pea.
As a student and a feminist, I am extremely offended that you have called me 'Sweet Pea'.

Obviously you have not attended university, and cannot debate in a non-sexist manner.

Shame on you
[quote][p][bold]Vigilia[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Green_Girl_1990[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Richada[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Green_Girl_1990[/bold] wrote: Vote for the best! ALWAYS the best! Vote Caroline Lucas! Vote Green Party![/p][/quote]Having been, presumably, born in 1990, luckily for you, you're far too young to remember how badly Britain ran under Nationalised industries in the 70's and 80's. Can we have some more original trolling please? You used to be funny, now it's a cut and paste of the same comment.[/p][/quote]Let me make something very, VERY clear to you. Do you realise that we have already started campaigning on BOTH university campuses? I am a member of 'Green Students' and we are more than confident that Brighton students will be voting for the Green Party in abundance. The fact of the matter is that at the next election, the Green Party will be returned to power in Brighton; rather than complaining like a little girl with a grazed knee, better for you that you just ACCEPT IT.[/p][/quote]In your dreams, Sweet Pea.[/p][/quote]As a student and a feminist, I am extremely offended that you have called me 'Sweet Pea'. Obviously you have not attended university, and cannot debate in a non-sexist manner. Shame on you Green_Girl_1990
  • Score: -52

3:32pm Tue 1 Apr 14

the red head says...

Green_Girl_1990 wrote:
Richada wrote:
Green_Girl_1990 wrote:
Vote for the best! ALWAYS the best!

Vote Caroline Lucas! Vote Green Party!
Having been, presumably, born in 1990, luckily for you, you're far too young to remember how badly Britain ran under Nationalised industries in the 70's and 80's.

Can we have some more original trolling please? You used to be funny, now it's a cut and paste of the same comment.
Let me make something very, VERY clear to you.

Do you realise that we have already started campaigning on BOTH university campuses? I am a member of 'Green Students' and we are more than confident that Brighton students will be voting for the Green Party in abundance.

The fact of the matter is that at the next election, the Green Party will be returned to power in Brighton; rather than complaining like a little girl with a grazed knee, better for you that you just ACCEPT IT.
Well little green girl, when you get a life in the real world instead of on the campus and you then have to pay out of your own pocket to prop up a council that systematically and deliberately abuses their power to bring down a city through some misplaced and fairyland ideals.... Which despite all their work has made that same city one of the worst for recycling, the worst for transport issues, the worst for inefficiency, the worst for union negotiations and the worst for listening to what the people who actually have to pay their wages... Then I'll listen to you. I may even lend you a fiver.
You lazy drum beating idiots who bang on about the power of students need to grow up and stop floundering mummy and daddy's money on pretend politics, instead if doing what university is for, ie. getting an education.
My two kids are at uni and work hard, really really hard, to get a job at the end of it. Ever thought about putting all your energy into similar admirable aspirations?
[quote][p][bold]Green_Girl_1990[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Richada[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Green_Girl_1990[/bold] wrote: Vote for the best! ALWAYS the best! Vote Caroline Lucas! Vote Green Party![/p][/quote]Having been, presumably, born in 1990, luckily for you, you're far too young to remember how badly Britain ran under Nationalised industries in the 70's and 80's. Can we have some more original trolling please? You used to be funny, now it's a cut and paste of the same comment.[/p][/quote]Let me make something very, VERY clear to you. Do you realise that we have already started campaigning on BOTH university campuses? I am a member of 'Green Students' and we are more than confident that Brighton students will be voting for the Green Party in abundance. The fact of the matter is that at the next election, the Green Party will be returned to power in Brighton; rather than complaining like a little girl with a grazed knee, better for you that you just ACCEPT IT.[/p][/quote]Well little green girl, when you get a life in the real world instead of on the campus and you then have to pay out of your own pocket to prop up a council that systematically and deliberately abuses their power to bring down a city through some misplaced and fairyland ideals.... Which despite all their work has made that same city one of the worst for recycling, the worst for transport issues, the worst for inefficiency, the worst for union negotiations and the worst for listening to what the people who actually have to pay their wages... Then I'll listen to you. I may even lend you a fiver. You lazy drum beating idiots who bang on about the power of students need to grow up and stop floundering mummy and daddy's money on pretend politics, instead if doing what university is for, ie. getting an education. My two kids are at uni and work hard, really really hard, to get a job at the end of it. Ever thought about putting all your energy into similar admirable aspirations? the red head
  • Score: 51

3:37pm Tue 1 Apr 14

JHunty says...

Green_Girl_1990 wrote:
Vigilia wrote:
Green_Girl_1990 wrote:
Richada wrote:
Green_Girl_1990 wrote:
Vote for the best! ALWAYS the best!

Vote Caroline Lucas! Vote Green Party!
Having been, presumably, born in 1990, luckily for you, you're far too young to remember how badly Britain ran under Nationalised industries in the 70's and 80's.

Can we have some more original trolling please? You used to be funny, now it's a cut and paste of the same comment.
Let me make something very, VERY clear to you.

Do you realise that we have already started campaigning on BOTH university campuses? I am a member of 'Green Students' and we are more than confident that Brighton students will be voting for the Green Party in abundance.

The fact of the matter is that at the next election, the Green Party will be returned to power in Brighton; rather than complaining like a little girl with a grazed knee, better for you that you just ACCEPT IT.
In your dreams, Sweet Pea.
As a student and a feminist, I am extremely offended that you have called me 'Sweet Pea'.

Obviously you have not attended university, and cannot debate in a non-sexist manner.

Shame on you
Boring troll alert, your Ania is better but still awful. As for Caroline being a good constituency mp, says who? She is a typical hobbyist politician, wealthy and unaffected by the issues that affect normal people, like rises in bus fares.
[quote][p][bold]Green_Girl_1990[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Vigilia[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Green_Girl_1990[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Richada[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Green_Girl_1990[/bold] wrote: Vote for the best! ALWAYS the best! Vote Caroline Lucas! Vote Green Party![/p][/quote]Having been, presumably, born in 1990, luckily for you, you're far too young to remember how badly Britain ran under Nationalised industries in the 70's and 80's. Can we have some more original trolling please? You used to be funny, now it's a cut and paste of the same comment.[/p][/quote]Let me make something very, VERY clear to you. Do you realise that we have already started campaigning on BOTH university campuses? I am a member of 'Green Students' and we are more than confident that Brighton students will be voting for the Green Party in abundance. The fact of the matter is that at the next election, the Green Party will be returned to power in Brighton; rather than complaining like a little girl with a grazed knee, better for you that you just ACCEPT IT.[/p][/quote]In your dreams, Sweet Pea.[/p][/quote]As a student and a feminist, I am extremely offended that you have called me 'Sweet Pea'. Obviously you have not attended university, and cannot debate in a non-sexist manner. Shame on you[/p][/quote]Boring troll alert, your Ania is better but still awful. As for Caroline being a good constituency mp, says who? She is a typical hobbyist politician, wealthy and unaffected by the issues that affect normal people, like rises in bus fares. JHunty
  • Score: 35

3:38pm Tue 1 Apr 14

Vigilia says...

Green_Girl_1990 wrote:
Vigilia wrote:
Green_Girl_1990 wrote:
Richada wrote:
Green_Girl_1990 wrote:
Vote for the best! ALWAYS the best!

Vote Caroline Lucas! Vote Green Party!
Having been, presumably, born in 1990, luckily for you, you're far too young to remember how badly Britain ran under Nationalised industries in the 70's and 80's.

Can we have some more original trolling please? You used to be funny, now it's a cut and paste of the same comment.
Let me make something very, VERY clear to you.

Do you realise that we have already started campaigning on BOTH university campuses? I am a member of 'Green Students' and we are more than confident that Brighton students will be voting for the Green Party in abundance.

The fact of the matter is that at the next election, the Green Party will be returned to power in Brighton; rather than complaining like a little girl with a grazed knee, better for you that you just ACCEPT IT.
In your dreams, Sweet Pea.
As a student and a feminist, I am extremely offended that you have called me 'Sweet Pea'.

Obviously you have not attended university, and cannot debate in a non-sexist manner.

Shame on you
You silly little girl.
I got my first degree in 1962 when children like you had to wait until they were contributing to society before they could vote.
[quote][p][bold]Green_Girl_1990[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Vigilia[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Green_Girl_1990[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Richada[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Green_Girl_1990[/bold] wrote: Vote for the best! ALWAYS the best! Vote Caroline Lucas! Vote Green Party![/p][/quote]Having been, presumably, born in 1990, luckily for you, you're far too young to remember how badly Britain ran under Nationalised industries in the 70's and 80's. Can we have some more original trolling please? You used to be funny, now it's a cut and paste of the same comment.[/p][/quote]Let me make something very, VERY clear to you. Do you realise that we have already started campaigning on BOTH university campuses? I am a member of 'Green Students' and we are more than confident that Brighton students will be voting for the Green Party in abundance. The fact of the matter is that at the next election, the Green Party will be returned to power in Brighton; rather than complaining like a little girl with a grazed knee, better for you that you just ACCEPT IT.[/p][/quote]In your dreams, Sweet Pea.[/p][/quote]As a student and a feminist, I am extremely offended that you have called me 'Sweet Pea'. Obviously you have not attended university, and cannot debate in a non-sexist manner. Shame on you[/p][/quote]You silly little girl. I got my first degree in 1962 when children like you had to wait until they were contributing to society before they could vote. Vigilia
  • Score: 44

3:48pm Tue 1 Apr 14

NickBrt says...

Why is she concerned about fares in Brighton, she's the MP for Balcombe isn_'t she?
Why is she concerned about fares in Brighton, she's the MP for Balcombe isn_'t she? NickBrt
  • Score: 20

3:48pm Tue 1 Apr 14

the red head says...

Green_Girl_1990 wrote:
Vigilia wrote:
Green_Girl_1990 wrote:
Richada wrote:
Green_Girl_1990 wrote:
Vote for the best! ALWAYS the best!

Vote Caroline Lucas! Vote Green Party!
Having been, presumably, born in 1990, luckily for you, you're far too young to remember how badly Britain ran under Nationalised industries in the 70's and 80's.

Can we have some more original trolling please? You used to be funny, now it's a cut and paste of the same comment.
Let me make something very, VERY clear to you.

Do you realise that we have already started campaigning on BOTH university campuses? I am a member of 'Green Students' and we are more than confident that Brighton students will be voting for the Green Party in abundance.

The fact of the matter is that at the next election, the Green Party will be returned to power in Brighton; rather than complaining like a little girl with a grazed knee, better for you that you just ACCEPT IT.
In your dreams, Sweet Pea.
As a student and a feminist, I am extremely offended that you have called me 'Sweet Pea'.

Obviously you have not attended university, and cannot debate in a non-sexist manner.

Shame on you
A sweet pea is a flower and therefore is not applicable to gender. It is delicate and requires gentle handling. It's possible that the comment was patronising but in this instance you are not obviously able to use it as a sexist slur.

I'm 46. I didn't get a degree. I learnt through living. Maybe you try exploring feminism, debate and life before you try to play with the big boys. Which is an analogy, not a sexist slur.

Want to borrow an encyclopaedia?
[quote][p][bold]Green_Girl_1990[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Vigilia[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Green_Girl_1990[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Richada[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Green_Girl_1990[/bold] wrote: Vote for the best! ALWAYS the best! Vote Caroline Lucas! Vote Green Party![/p][/quote]Having been, presumably, born in 1990, luckily for you, you're far too young to remember how badly Britain ran under Nationalised industries in the 70's and 80's. Can we have some more original trolling please? You used to be funny, now it's a cut and paste of the same comment.[/p][/quote]Let me make something very, VERY clear to you. Do you realise that we have already started campaigning on BOTH university campuses? I am a member of 'Green Students' and we are more than confident that Brighton students will be voting for the Green Party in abundance. The fact of the matter is that at the next election, the Green Party will be returned to power in Brighton; rather than complaining like a little girl with a grazed knee, better for you that you just ACCEPT IT.[/p][/quote]In your dreams, Sweet Pea.[/p][/quote]As a student and a feminist, I am extremely offended that you have called me 'Sweet Pea'. Obviously you have not attended university, and cannot debate in a non-sexist manner. Shame on you[/p][/quote]A sweet pea is a flower and therefore is not applicable to gender. It is delicate and requires gentle handling. It's possible that the comment was patronising but in this instance you are not obviously able to use it as a sexist slur. I'm 46. I didn't get a degree. I learnt through living. Maybe you try exploring feminism, debate and life before you try to play with the big boys. Which is an analogy, not a sexist slur. Want to borrow an encyclopaedia? the red head
  • Score: 42

4:09pm Tue 1 Apr 14

DSummers says...

Whenever Caroline Lucas is mentioned on here people go on about how she is a terrible MP. Can someone explain why they think that?
Whenever Caroline Lucas is mentioned on here people go on about how she is a terrible MP. Can someone explain why they think that? DSummers
  • Score: -21

4:52pm Tue 1 Apr 14

NickBtn says...

brighton bluenose wrote:
NickBtn wrote:
The green council has some responsibility for this rise - so is Ms Lucas trying to deflect the blame? The greens have given more of the roads across to the effective monopoly of Brighton and Hove buses - yet without negotiation on prices etc. The bus company has repeatedly run rings around the council. Yes, the council has few powers directly on pricing but they do hold a number of strong cards particularly bus lanes

As fuel prices are falling so should bus fares (as fuel increases were used as reason for previous rises). The council should allow bus lanes for all road users until prices fall. There is no way that our fares should be higher than London fares yet they are - this should be used as the benchmark - we should be at London minus 10 or 20%. Until we reach that level, bus lanes open to all. Bet the bus company could magically find savings with that kind of negotiating stance. So go on greens, fight for public transport! It's in your power (where nationalisation isn't). You can make a difference if you try....
Perhaps you want to clarify why B&H bus fares should be your arbitrary 10 or 20% lower than London?!
Yes, 10 or 20% less is arbitrary and a good point to start negotiations. Why lower than London? Well wage costs, living costs, office/depot costs etc are all higher in London so you would expect the bus company to have higher costs there than in Brighton. How much would take research - but I'd bet more than 10-20% higher than costs here
[quote][p][bold]brighton bluenose[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]NickBtn[/bold] wrote: The green council has some responsibility for this rise - so is Ms Lucas trying to deflect the blame? The greens have given more of the roads across to the effective monopoly of Brighton and Hove buses - yet without negotiation on prices etc. The bus company has repeatedly run rings around the council. Yes, the council has few powers directly on pricing but they do hold a number of strong cards particularly bus lanes As fuel prices are falling so should bus fares (as fuel increases were used as reason for previous rises). The council should allow bus lanes for all road users until prices fall. There is no way that our fares should be higher than London fares yet they are - this should be used as the benchmark - we should be at London minus 10 or 20%. Until we reach that level, bus lanes open to all. Bet the bus company could magically find savings with that kind of negotiating stance. So go on greens, fight for public transport! It's in your power (where nationalisation isn't). You can make a difference if you try....[/p][/quote]Perhaps you want to clarify why B&H bus fares should be your arbitrary 10 or 20% lower than London?![/p][/quote]Yes, 10 or 20% less is arbitrary and a good point to start negotiations. Why lower than London? Well wage costs, living costs, office/depot costs etc are all higher in London so you would expect the bus company to have higher costs there than in Brighton. How much would take research - but I'd bet more than 10-20% higher than costs here NickBtn
  • Score: 7

4:53pm Tue 1 Apr 14

Gaz the great says...

For those of you with short memories, Green girl sounds like Greenlover, a complete Lucas lover, who has vanished. Like most people in Brighton, I couldn't possibly pay this massive increase, so will now be forced to walk to Balcoombe to sit in the road, lock Lucas up along with the rest of the green party with her! Ban cars & tourists, make B&H city a no go area for all except travellers!
For those of you with short memories, Green girl sounds like Greenlover, a complete Lucas lover, who has vanished. Like most people in Brighton, I couldn't possibly pay this massive increase, so will now be forced to walk to Balcoombe to sit in the road, lock Lucas up along with the rest of the green party with her! Ban cars & tourists, make B&H city a no go area for all except travellers! Gaz the great
  • Score: 12

5:12pm Tue 1 Apr 14

sabbat36 says...

NickBtn wrote:
The green council has some responsibility for this rise - so is Ms Lucas trying to deflect the blame? The greens have given more of the roads across to the effective monopoly of Brighton and Hove buses - yet without negotiation on prices etc. The bus company has repeatedly run rings around the council. Yes, the council has few powers directly on pricing but they do hold a number of strong cards particularly bus lanes

As fuel prices are falling so should bus fares (as fuel increases were used as reason for previous rises). The council should allow bus lanes for all road users until prices fall. There is no way that our fares should be higher than London fares yet they are - this should be used as the benchmark - we should be at London minus 10 or 20%. Until we reach that level, bus lanes open to all. Bet the bus company could magically find savings with that kind of negotiating stance. So go on greens, fight for public transport! It's in your power (where nationalisation isn't). You can make a difference if you try....
You cannot have london prices -London bus travel is subsidised by the CONGESTION CHARGE - FACT.

DO YOU WANT THE CONGESTION CHARGE IN BRIGHTON?

Bet you don't.

Didn't think of that one in your utopia did you?
[quote][p][bold]NickBtn[/bold] wrote: The green council has some responsibility for this rise - so is Ms Lucas trying to deflect the blame? The greens have given more of the roads across to the effective monopoly of Brighton and Hove buses - yet without negotiation on prices etc. The bus company has repeatedly run rings around the council. Yes, the council has few powers directly on pricing but they do hold a number of strong cards particularly bus lanes As fuel prices are falling so should bus fares (as fuel increases were used as reason for previous rises). The council should allow bus lanes for all road users until prices fall. There is no way that our fares should be higher than London fares yet they are - this should be used as the benchmark - we should be at London minus 10 or 20%. Until we reach that level, bus lanes open to all. Bet the bus company could magically find savings with that kind of negotiating stance. So go on greens, fight for public transport! It's in your power (where nationalisation isn't). You can make a difference if you try....[/p][/quote]You cannot have london prices -London bus travel is subsidised by the CONGESTION CHARGE - FACT. DO YOU WANT THE CONGESTION CHARGE IN BRIGHTON? Bet you don't. Didn't think of that one in your utopia did you? sabbat36
  • Score: 3

5:17pm Tue 1 Apr 14

spa301 says...

Well done Green Girl you're getting a lot of bites today! Sometimes I almost believe you're serious myself.
Well done Green Girl you're getting a lot of bites today! Sometimes I almost believe you're serious myself. spa301
  • Score: 14

5:19pm Tue 1 Apr 14

wexler53 says...

Anyone who recalls the council run, rather grubby and unreliable blue buses will know that we get a far better bus service now than then...

Furthermore, the council's keenness to lend millions of real taxpayers money for the commercially flawed i360 shows clearly how useless they are at running anything that needs careful financial control.

Pricing is a different matter, and I guess that as long as people are willing to pay the price, they'll keep using the buses.

Better a price decided by the market than one based on cost plus as in the public sector, where there's a total lack of control over costs.
Anyone who recalls the council run, rather grubby and unreliable blue buses will know that we get a far better bus service now than then... Furthermore, the council's keenness to lend millions of real taxpayers money for the commercially flawed i360 shows clearly how useless they are at running anything that needs careful financial control. Pricing is a different matter, and I guess that as long as people are willing to pay the price, they'll keep using the buses. Better a price decided by the market than one based on cost plus as in the public sector, where there's a total lack of control over costs. wexler53
  • Score: 10

5:34pm Tue 1 Apr 14

HJarrs says...

sabbat36 wrote:
NickBtn wrote:
The green council has some responsibility for this rise - so is Ms Lucas trying to deflect the blame? The greens have given more of the roads across to the effective monopoly of Brighton and Hove buses - yet without negotiation on prices etc. The bus company has repeatedly run rings around the council. Yes, the council has few powers directly on pricing but they do hold a number of strong cards particularly bus lanes

As fuel prices are falling so should bus fares (as fuel increases were used as reason for previous rises). The council should allow bus lanes for all road users until prices fall. There is no way that our fares should be higher than London fares yet they are - this should be used as the benchmark - we should be at London minus 10 or 20%. Until we reach that level, bus lanes open to all. Bet the bus company could magically find savings with that kind of negotiating stance. So go on greens, fight for public transport! It's in your power (where nationalisation isn't). You can make a difference if you try....
You cannot have london prices -London bus travel is subsidised by the CONGESTION CHARGE - FACT.

DO YOU WANT THE CONGESTION CHARGE IN BRIGHTON?

Bet you don't.

Didn't think of that one in your utopia did you?
I think you have rumbled NickBtn!
[quote][p][bold]sabbat36[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]NickBtn[/bold] wrote: The green council has some responsibility for this rise - so is Ms Lucas trying to deflect the blame? The greens have given more of the roads across to the effective monopoly of Brighton and Hove buses - yet without negotiation on prices etc. The bus company has repeatedly run rings around the council. Yes, the council has few powers directly on pricing but they do hold a number of strong cards particularly bus lanes As fuel prices are falling so should bus fares (as fuel increases were used as reason for previous rises). The council should allow bus lanes for all road users until prices fall. There is no way that our fares should be higher than London fares yet they are - this should be used as the benchmark - we should be at London minus 10 or 20%. Until we reach that level, bus lanes open to all. Bet the bus company could magically find savings with that kind of negotiating stance. So go on greens, fight for public transport! It's in your power (where nationalisation isn't). You can make a difference if you try....[/p][/quote]You cannot have london prices -London bus travel is subsidised by the CONGESTION CHARGE - FACT. DO YOU WANT THE CONGESTION CHARGE IN BRIGHTON? Bet you don't. Didn't think of that one in your utopia did you?[/p][/quote]I think you have rumbled NickBtn! HJarrs
  • Score: -11

5:44pm Tue 1 Apr 14

HJarrs says...

sabbat36 wrote:
NickBtn wrote:
The green council has some responsibility for this rise - so is Ms Lucas trying to deflect the blame? The greens have given more of the roads across to the effective monopoly of Brighton and Hove buses - yet without negotiation on prices etc. The bus company has repeatedly run rings around the council. Yes, the council has few powers directly on pricing but they do hold a number of strong cards particularly bus lanes

As fuel prices are falling so should bus fares (as fuel increases were used as reason for previous rises). The council should allow bus lanes for all road users until prices fall. There is no way that our fares should be higher than London fares yet they are - this should be used as the benchmark - we should be at London minus 10 or 20%. Until we reach that level, bus lanes open to all. Bet the bus company could magically find savings with that kind of negotiating stance. So go on greens, fight for public transport! It's in your power (where nationalisation isn't). You can make a difference if you try....
You cannot have london prices -London bus travel is subsidised by the CONGESTION CHARGE - FACT.

DO YOU WANT THE CONGESTION CHARGE IN BRIGHTON?

Bet you don't.

Didn't think of that one in your utopia did you?
It is amazing that so many of the above either voted for a party to privatise the buses or merely meddle with the privatised system and now complain about the system they seem to want!

The bus market has worked as markets do, i.e. to create monopoly suppliers with non-entrepreneurial senior managements paid vast sums and able to soak the customer.

Quite right that at least one local MP speaks out on this matter. Were are Weatherley and Kirby?
[quote][p][bold]sabbat36[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]NickBtn[/bold] wrote: The green council has some responsibility for this rise - so is Ms Lucas trying to deflect the blame? The greens have given more of the roads across to the effective monopoly of Brighton and Hove buses - yet without negotiation on prices etc. The bus company has repeatedly run rings around the council. Yes, the council has few powers directly on pricing but they do hold a number of strong cards particularly bus lanes As fuel prices are falling so should bus fares (as fuel increases were used as reason for previous rises). The council should allow bus lanes for all road users until prices fall. There is no way that our fares should be higher than London fares yet they are - this should be used as the benchmark - we should be at London minus 10 or 20%. Until we reach that level, bus lanes open to all. Bet the bus company could magically find savings with that kind of negotiating stance. So go on greens, fight for public transport! It's in your power (where nationalisation isn't). You can make a difference if you try....[/p][/quote]You cannot have london prices -London bus travel is subsidised by the CONGESTION CHARGE - FACT. DO YOU WANT THE CONGESTION CHARGE IN BRIGHTON? Bet you don't. Didn't think of that one in your utopia did you?[/p][/quote]It is amazing that so many of the above either voted for a party to privatise the buses or merely meddle with the privatised system and now complain about the system they seem to want! The bus market has worked as markets do, i.e. to create monopoly suppliers with non-entrepreneurial senior managements paid vast sums and able to soak the customer. Quite right that at least one local MP speaks out on this matter. Were are Weatherley and Kirby? HJarrs
  • Score: -10

6:18pm Tue 1 Apr 14

Just trying to earn a crust says...

spa301 wrote:
Well done Green Girl you're getting a lot of bites today! Sometimes I almost believe you're serious myself.
Shhh! She's having her milk and biscuits before bed. We don't want to disturb her or she'll be back
[quote][p][bold]spa301[/bold] wrote: Well done Green Girl you're getting a lot of bites today! Sometimes I almost believe you're serious myself.[/p][/quote]Shhh! She's having her milk and biscuits before bed. We don't want to disturb her or she'll be back Just trying to earn a crust
  • Score: 21

6:46pm Tue 1 Apr 14

brighton bluenose says...

the red head wrote:
Green_Girl_1990 wrote:
Richada wrote:
Green_Girl_1990 wrote:
Vote for the best! ALWAYS the best!

Vote Caroline Lucas! Vote Green Party!
Having been, presumably, born in 1990, luckily for you, you're far too young to remember how badly Britain ran under Nationalised industries in the 70's and 80's.

Can we have some more original trolling please? You used to be funny, now it's a cut and paste of the same comment.
Let me make something very, VERY clear to you.

Do you realise that we have already started campaigning on BOTH university campuses? I am a member of 'Green Students' and we are more than confident that Brighton students will be voting for the Green Party in abundance.

The fact of the matter is that at the next election, the Green Party will be returned to power in Brighton; rather than complaining like a little girl with a grazed knee, better for you that you just ACCEPT IT.
Well little green girl, when you get a life in the real world instead of on the campus and you then have to pay out of your own pocket to prop up a council that systematically and deliberately abuses their power to bring down a city through some misplaced and fairyland ideals.... Which despite all their work has made that same city one of the worst for recycling, the worst for transport issues, the worst for inefficiency, the worst for union negotiations and the worst for listening to what the people who actually have to pay their wages... Then I'll listen to you. I may even lend you a fiver.
You lazy drum beating idiots who bang on about the power of students need to grow up and stop floundering mummy and daddy's money on pretend politics, instead if doing what university is for, ie. getting an education.
My two kids are at uni and work hard, really really hard, to get a job at the end of it. Ever thought about putting all your energy into similar admirable aspirations?
"Bring down a city" - LOL are you for real?!!!
The Greens might have a few issues for a young and inexperienced administration but your hyperbole is so ridiculously OTT that I can barely stop chuckling to myself! Detroit or Sr similar cities are places that have been brought 'didn't Brighton and Hovere are such a long way from being anything like that!
And as for Green Girls 'aspirations' one can only admire the fact that she IS getting an education whilst at the same time working for a cause that she believes in!

As for, to pick one point, 'union negotiations' - Labour and the Tories did really well for years and years with council staff pay at unequal levels and all sorts of bonuses and side payments - the Greens should be congratulated for starting to sort that mess out !
[quote][p][bold]the red head[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Green_Girl_1990[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Richada[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Green_Girl_1990[/bold] wrote: Vote for the best! ALWAYS the best! Vote Caroline Lucas! Vote Green Party![/p][/quote]Having been, presumably, born in 1990, luckily for you, you're far too young to remember how badly Britain ran under Nationalised industries in the 70's and 80's. Can we have some more original trolling please? You used to be funny, now it's a cut and paste of the same comment.[/p][/quote]Let me make something very, VERY clear to you. Do you realise that we have already started campaigning on BOTH university campuses? I am a member of 'Green Students' and we are more than confident that Brighton students will be voting for the Green Party in abundance. The fact of the matter is that at the next election, the Green Party will be returned to power in Brighton; rather than complaining like a little girl with a grazed knee, better for you that you just ACCEPT IT.[/p][/quote]Well little green girl, when you get a life in the real world instead of on the campus and you then have to pay out of your own pocket to prop up a council that systematically and deliberately abuses their power to bring down a city through some misplaced and fairyland ideals.... Which despite all their work has made that same city one of the worst for recycling, the worst for transport issues, the worst for inefficiency, the worst for union negotiations and the worst for listening to what the people who actually have to pay their wages... Then I'll listen to you. I may even lend you a fiver. You lazy drum beating idiots who bang on about the power of students need to grow up and stop floundering mummy and daddy's money on pretend politics, instead if doing what university is for, ie. getting an education. My two kids are at uni and work hard, really really hard, to get a job at the end of it. Ever thought about putting all your energy into similar admirable aspirations?[/p][/quote]"Bring down a city" - LOL are you for real?!!! The Greens might have a few issues for a young and inexperienced administration but your hyperbole is so ridiculously OTT that I can barely stop chuckling to myself! Detroit or Sr similar cities are places that have been brought 'didn't Brighton and Hovere are such a long way from being anything like that! And as for Green Girls 'aspirations' one can only admire the fact that she IS getting an education whilst at the same time working for a cause that she believes in! As for, to pick one point, 'union negotiations' - Labour and the Tories did really well for years and years with council staff pay at unequal levels and all sorts of bonuses and side payments - the Greens should be congratulated for starting to sort that mess out ! brighton bluenose
  • Score: -29

7:15pm Tue 1 Apr 14

bluemonday says...

after what successive governments have done with,royal mail,armed forces,schools,emerg
ency sevices,national health service,etc etc etc.i think they should leave things alone
after what successive governments have done with,royal mail,armed forces,schools,emerg ency sevices,national health service,etc etc etc.i think they should leave things alone bluemonday
  • Score: -11

7:22pm Tue 1 Apr 14

the red head says...

brighton bluenose wrote:
the red head wrote:
Green_Girl_1990 wrote:
Richada wrote:
Green_Girl_1990 wrote:
Vote for the best! ALWAYS the best!

Vote Caroline Lucas! Vote Green Party!
Having been, presumably, born in 1990, luckily for you, you're far too young to remember how badly Britain ran under Nationalised industries in the 70's and 80's.

Can we have some more original trolling please? You used to be funny, now it's a cut and paste of the same comment.
Let me make something very, VERY clear to you.

Do you realise that we have already started campaigning on BOTH university campuses? I am a member of 'Green Students' and we are more than confident that Brighton students will be voting for the Green Party in abundance.

The fact of the matter is that at the next election, the Green Party will be returned to power in Brighton; rather than complaining like a little girl with a grazed knee, better for you that you just ACCEPT IT.
Well little green girl, when you get a life in the real world instead of on the campus and you then have to pay out of your own pocket to prop up a council that systematically and deliberately abuses their power to bring down a city through some misplaced and fairyland ideals.... Which despite all their work has made that same city one of the worst for recycling, the worst for transport issues, the worst for inefficiency, the worst for union negotiations and the worst for listening to what the people who actually have to pay their wages... Then I'll listen to you. I may even lend you a fiver.
You lazy drum beating idiots who bang on about the power of students need to grow up and stop floundering mummy and daddy's money on pretend politics, instead if doing what university is for, ie. getting an education.
My two kids are at uni and work hard, really really hard, to get a job at the end of it. Ever thought about putting all your energy into similar admirable aspirations?
"Bring down a city" - LOL are you for real?!!!
The Greens might have a few issues for a young and inexperienced administration but your hyperbole is so ridiculously OTT that I can barely stop chuckling to myself! Detroit or Sr similar cities are places that have been brought 'didn't Brighton and Hovere are such a long way from being anything like that!
And as for Green Girls 'aspirations' one can only admire the fact that she IS getting an education whilst at the same time working for a cause that she believes in!

As for, to pick one point, 'union negotiations' - Labour and the Tories did really well for years and years with council staff pay at unequal levels and all sorts of bonuses and side payments - the Greens should be congratulated for starting to sort that mess out !
Assuming that green girl 1980 is born in 1980, one would assume she's been trying to get that education for 34 years. Hopefully one day, she'll make it. Then she can claim her pension just in time.
As for unequal pay, yes, but the greens actually did not tackle that, that was under the last administration. As a council worker I was extremely grateful. I'm sure Jason kitkat and his wife are very grateful for equal pay, which means they can both claim childcare for their one child. This is a fantastic luxury that any happily married bankrupted would be pleased to have.
[quote][p][bold]brighton bluenose[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]the red head[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Green_Girl_1990[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Richada[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Green_Girl_1990[/bold] wrote: Vote for the best! ALWAYS the best! Vote Caroline Lucas! Vote Green Party![/p][/quote]Having been, presumably, born in 1990, luckily for you, you're far too young to remember how badly Britain ran under Nationalised industries in the 70's and 80's. Can we have some more original trolling please? You used to be funny, now it's a cut and paste of the same comment.[/p][/quote]Let me make something very, VERY clear to you. Do you realise that we have already started campaigning on BOTH university campuses? I am a member of 'Green Students' and we are more than confident that Brighton students will be voting for the Green Party in abundance. The fact of the matter is that at the next election, the Green Party will be returned to power in Brighton; rather than complaining like a little girl with a grazed knee, better for you that you just ACCEPT IT.[/p][/quote]Well little green girl, when you get a life in the real world instead of on the campus and you then have to pay out of your own pocket to prop up a council that systematically and deliberately abuses their power to bring down a city through some misplaced and fairyland ideals.... Which despite all their work has made that same city one of the worst for recycling, the worst for transport issues, the worst for inefficiency, the worst for union negotiations and the worst for listening to what the people who actually have to pay their wages... Then I'll listen to you. I may even lend you a fiver. You lazy drum beating idiots who bang on about the power of students need to grow up and stop floundering mummy and daddy's money on pretend politics, instead if doing what university is for, ie. getting an education. My two kids are at uni and work hard, really really hard, to get a job at the end of it. Ever thought about putting all your energy into similar admirable aspirations?[/p][/quote]"Bring down a city" - LOL are you for real?!!! The Greens might have a few issues for a young and inexperienced administration but your hyperbole is so ridiculously OTT that I can barely stop chuckling to myself! Detroit or Sr similar cities are places that have been brought 'didn't Brighton and Hovere are such a long way from being anything like that! And as for Green Girls 'aspirations' one can only admire the fact that she IS getting an education whilst at the same time working for a cause that she believes in! As for, to pick one point, 'union negotiations' - Labour and the Tories did really well for years and years with council staff pay at unequal levels and all sorts of bonuses and side payments - the Greens should be congratulated for starting to sort that mess out ![/p][/quote]Assuming that green girl 1980 is born in 1980, one would assume she's been trying to get that education for 34 years. Hopefully one day, she'll make it. Then she can claim her pension just in time. As for unequal pay, yes, but the greens actually did not tackle that, that was under the last administration. As a council worker I was extremely grateful. I'm sure Jason kitkat and his wife are very grateful for equal pay, which means they can both claim childcare for their one child. This is a fantastic luxury that any happily married bankrupted would be pleased to have. the red head
  • Score: -1

7:27pm Tue 1 Apr 14

Bill in Hanover says...

DC Brighton wrote:
Fares went up not that long ago so this seems cheeky at best BUT perhaps she ought to compare bus fares and parking charges before suddenly pretending to know or care anything about traffic in travelling in and around Brighton.
As Brighton pulls in more money from car parking than anywhere else in Britain outside of London perhaps they should subsidise bus fare, perhaps allowing free fares for schoolchildren. p.s. I have no school age children myself but their fares are ridiculously expensive.
[quote][p][bold]DC Brighton[/bold] wrote: Fares went up not that long ago so this seems cheeky at best BUT perhaps she ought to compare bus fares and parking charges before suddenly pretending to know or care anything about traffic in travelling in and around Brighton.[/p][/quote]As Brighton pulls in more money from car parking than anywhere else in Britain outside of London perhaps they should subsidise bus fare, perhaps allowing free fares for schoolchildren. p.s. I have no school age children myself but their fares are ridiculously expensive. Bill in Hanover
  • Score: 12

7:36pm Tue 1 Apr 14

bbbazcooper says...

I see Lucas is described as coming from Brighton in her court appearance, does this mean she has added to her 5 houses and got a sixth ?

As others have noted there is clearly an election in air for Ma Lucas to suddenly come over all concerned on this issue.

Now, if she wants to use her influence on the Green slime in the town hall so that our parks are traveller free and our roads are pothole and congestion free - hint, reverse some of your Green council friends more stupid bus and cycle lanes - and our bins are collected, we might be a little less cynical.
I see Lucas is described as coming from Brighton in her court appearance, does this mean she has added to her 5 houses and got a sixth ? As others have noted there is clearly an election in air for Ma Lucas to suddenly come over all concerned on this issue. Now, if she wants to use her influence on the Green slime in the town hall so that our parks are traveller free and our roads are pothole and congestion free - hint, reverse some of your Green council friends more stupid bus and cycle lanes - and our bins are collected, we might be a little less cynical. bbbazcooper
  • Score: 7

7:37pm Tue 1 Apr 14

monkeymoo says...

brighton bluenose wrote:
SRN BGH wrote:
So it must be coming up to election time what a surprise this lady is aware of what is going on the Brighton
She is actually a good constituency MP - but unfortunately some of these contributors haven't got a clue!!
Given all the negative marks next to your comments.....

,....It seems like YOU'RE the one who doesn't have a clue.

Sad little person, still trying to defend the Green party after all they have contributed to messing up this city!
[quote][p][bold]brighton bluenose[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]SRN BGH[/bold] wrote: So it must be coming up to election time what a surprise this lady is aware of what is going on the Brighton[/p][/quote]She is actually a good constituency MP - but unfortunately some of these contributors haven't got a clue!![/p][/quote]Given all the negative marks next to your comments..... ,....It seems like YOU'RE the one who doesn't have a clue. Sad little person, still trying to defend the Green party after all they have contributed to messing up this city! monkeymoo
  • Score: 11

7:38pm Tue 1 Apr 14

Falmer Wizard says...

Its wrong that students get the vote before their studies are finished,they need to concentrate in the classroom and not get involved with real life outside their universities.
Its wrong that students get the vote before their studies are finished,they need to concentrate in the classroom and not get involved with real life outside their universities. Falmer Wizard
  • Score: 5

7:41pm Tue 1 Apr 14

Idontbelieveit1948 says...

Lucas concerned, well, she nearly fooled me until I realised it is April 1st !!
Lucas concerned, well, she nearly fooled me until I realised it is April 1st !! Idontbelieveit1948
  • Score: 11

8:15pm Tue 1 Apr 14

pachallis says...

HJarrs wrote:
sabbat36 wrote:
NickBtn wrote:
The green council has some responsibility for this rise - so is Ms Lucas trying to deflect the blame? The greens have given more of the roads across to the effective monopoly of Brighton and Hove buses - yet without negotiation on prices etc. The bus company has repeatedly run rings around the council. Yes, the council has few powers directly on pricing but they do hold a number of strong cards particularly bus lanes

As fuel prices are falling so should bus fares (as fuel increases were used as reason for previous rises). The council should allow bus lanes for all road users until prices fall. There is no way that our fares should be higher than London fares yet they are - this should be used as the benchmark - we should be at London minus 10 or 20%. Until we reach that level, bus lanes open to all. Bet the bus company could magically find savings with that kind of negotiating stance. So go on greens, fight for public transport! It's in your power (where nationalisation isn't). You can make a difference if you try....
You cannot have london prices -London bus travel is subsidised by the CONGESTION CHARGE - FACT.

DO YOU WANT THE CONGESTION CHARGE IN BRIGHTON?

Bet you don't.

Didn't think of that one in your utopia did you?
It is amazing that so many of the above either voted for a party to privatise the buses or merely meddle with the privatised system and now complain about the system they seem to want!

The bus market has worked as markets do, i.e. to create monopoly suppliers with non-entrepreneurial senior managements paid vast sums and able to soak the customer.

Quite right that at least one local MP speaks out on this matter. Were are Weatherley and Kirby?
@HJarrs - at least comment on what the greens have actually achieved (a very short list!) rather than attacking the opposition as usual!

Perhaps Weatherley and Kirby don't live in the 70s/80s and think that the solution to every problem is leftie nationalisation?

Perhaps you'd have some loony like Ian Davey running it for Brighton & Hove? Well he'll be looking for another job this time next year.

Maybe real competition on the bus routes would be better to resolve a monopoly and to not have a weak council that seems to be controlled by bus companies and do everything they want?
[quote][p][bold]HJarrs[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]sabbat36[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]NickBtn[/bold] wrote: The green council has some responsibility for this rise - so is Ms Lucas trying to deflect the blame? The greens have given more of the roads across to the effective monopoly of Brighton and Hove buses - yet without negotiation on prices etc. The bus company has repeatedly run rings around the council. Yes, the council has few powers directly on pricing but they do hold a number of strong cards particularly bus lanes As fuel prices are falling so should bus fares (as fuel increases were used as reason for previous rises). The council should allow bus lanes for all road users until prices fall. There is no way that our fares should be higher than London fares yet they are - this should be used as the benchmark - we should be at London minus 10 or 20%. Until we reach that level, bus lanes open to all. Bet the bus company could magically find savings with that kind of negotiating stance. So go on greens, fight for public transport! It's in your power (where nationalisation isn't). You can make a difference if you try....[/p][/quote]You cannot have london prices -London bus travel is subsidised by the CONGESTION CHARGE - FACT. DO YOU WANT THE CONGESTION CHARGE IN BRIGHTON? Bet you don't. Didn't think of that one in your utopia did you?[/p][/quote]It is amazing that so many of the above either voted for a party to privatise the buses or merely meddle with the privatised system and now complain about the system they seem to want! The bus market has worked as markets do, i.e. to create monopoly suppliers with non-entrepreneurial senior managements paid vast sums and able to soak the customer. Quite right that at least one local MP speaks out on this matter. Were are Weatherley and Kirby?[/p][/quote]@HJarrs - at least comment on what the greens have actually achieved (a very short list!) rather than attacking the opposition as usual! Perhaps Weatherley and Kirby don't live in the 70s/80s and think that the solution to every problem is leftie nationalisation? Perhaps you'd have some loony like Ian Davey running it for Brighton & Hove? Well he'll be looking for another job this time next year. Maybe real competition on the bus routes would be better to resolve a monopoly and to not have a weak council that seems to be controlled by bus companies and do everything they want? pachallis
  • Score: 6

8:29pm Tue 1 Apr 14

jackthekipper says...

most expensive buses in the uk if not europe
most expensive buses in the uk if not europe jackthekipper
  • Score: 9

7:08am Wed 2 Apr 14

HJarrs says...

pachallis wrote:
HJarrs wrote:
sabbat36 wrote:
NickBtn wrote:
The green council has some responsibility for this rise - so is Ms Lucas trying to deflect the blame? The greens have given more of the roads across to the effective monopoly of Brighton and Hove buses - yet without negotiation on prices etc. The bus company has repeatedly run rings around the council. Yes, the council has few powers directly on pricing but they do hold a number of strong cards particularly bus lanes

As fuel prices are falling so should bus fares (as fuel increases were used as reason for previous rises). The council should allow bus lanes for all road users until prices fall. There is no way that our fares should be higher than London fares yet they are - this should be used as the benchmark - we should be at London minus 10 or 20%. Until we reach that level, bus lanes open to all. Bet the bus company could magically find savings with that kind of negotiating stance. So go on greens, fight for public transport! It's in your power (where nationalisation isn't). You can make a difference if you try....
You cannot have london prices -London bus travel is subsidised by the CONGESTION CHARGE - FACT.

DO YOU WANT THE CONGESTION CHARGE IN BRIGHTON?

Bet you don't.

Didn't think of that one in your utopia did you?
It is amazing that so many of the above either voted for a party to privatise the buses or merely meddle with the privatised system and now complain about the system they seem to want!

The bus market has worked as markets do, i.e. to create monopoly suppliers with non-entrepreneurial senior managements paid vast sums and able to soak the customer.

Quite right that at least one local MP speaks out on this matter. Were are Weatherley and Kirby?
@HJarrs - at least comment on what the greens have actually achieved (a very short list!) rather than attacking the opposition as usual!

Perhaps Weatherley and Kirby don't live in the 70s/80s and think that the solution to every problem is leftie nationalisation?

Perhaps you'd have some loony like Ian Davey running it for Brighton & Hove? Well he'll be looking for another job this time next year.

Maybe real competition on the bus routes would be better to resolve a monopoly and to not have a weak council that seems to be controlled by bus companies and do everything they want?
What's wrong Patchy don't you like the "success" of bus privitisation? You vote for these policies, not me. Councils have very little leverage over privately owned utilities. Admittedly the council and bus company have worked well together to improve bus routes and bus priority to give a reasonable alternative to private car use.

B&H buses have hiked up the fares over a number of years, quite right a local MP raises the issue. Weatherley and Kirby nowhere to be seen on a local issue as usual.
[quote][p][bold]pachallis[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]HJarrs[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]sabbat36[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]NickBtn[/bold] wrote: The green council has some responsibility for this rise - so is Ms Lucas trying to deflect the blame? The greens have given more of the roads across to the effective monopoly of Brighton and Hove buses - yet without negotiation on prices etc. The bus company has repeatedly run rings around the council. Yes, the council has few powers directly on pricing but they do hold a number of strong cards particularly bus lanes As fuel prices are falling so should bus fares (as fuel increases were used as reason for previous rises). The council should allow bus lanes for all road users until prices fall. There is no way that our fares should be higher than London fares yet they are - this should be used as the benchmark - we should be at London minus 10 or 20%. Until we reach that level, bus lanes open to all. Bet the bus company could magically find savings with that kind of negotiating stance. So go on greens, fight for public transport! It's in your power (where nationalisation isn't). You can make a difference if you try....[/p][/quote]You cannot have london prices -London bus travel is subsidised by the CONGESTION CHARGE - FACT. DO YOU WANT THE CONGESTION CHARGE IN BRIGHTON? Bet you don't. Didn't think of that one in your utopia did you?[/p][/quote]It is amazing that so many of the above either voted for a party to privatise the buses or merely meddle with the privatised system and now complain about the system they seem to want! The bus market has worked as markets do, i.e. to create monopoly suppliers with non-entrepreneurial senior managements paid vast sums and able to soak the customer. Quite right that at least one local MP speaks out on this matter. Were are Weatherley and Kirby?[/p][/quote]@HJarrs - at least comment on what the greens have actually achieved (a very short list!) rather than attacking the opposition as usual! Perhaps Weatherley and Kirby don't live in the 70s/80s and think that the solution to every problem is leftie nationalisation? Perhaps you'd have some loony like Ian Davey running it for Brighton & Hove? Well he'll be looking for another job this time next year. Maybe real competition on the bus routes would be better to resolve a monopoly and to not have a weak council that seems to be controlled by bus companies and do everything they want?[/p][/quote]What's wrong Patchy don't you like the "success" of bus privitisation? You vote for these policies, not me. Councils have very little leverage over privately owned utilities. Admittedly the council and bus company have worked well together to improve bus routes and bus priority to give a reasonable alternative to private car use. B&H buses have hiked up the fares over a number of years, quite right a local MP raises the issue. Weatherley and Kirby nowhere to be seen on a local issue as usual. HJarrs
  • Score: -8

9:09am Wed 2 Apr 14

pachallis says...

HJarrs wrote:
pachallis wrote:
HJarrs wrote:
sabbat36 wrote:
NickBtn wrote:
The green council has some responsibility for this rise - so is Ms Lucas trying to deflect the blame? The greens have given more of the roads across to the effective monopoly of Brighton and Hove buses - yet without negotiation on prices etc. The bus company has repeatedly run rings around the council. Yes, the council has few powers directly on pricing but they do hold a number of strong cards particularly bus lanes

As fuel prices are falling so should bus fares (as fuel increases were used as reason for previous rises). The council should allow bus lanes for all road users until prices fall. There is no way that our fares should be higher than London fares yet they are - this should be used as the benchmark - we should be at London minus 10 or 20%. Until we reach that level, bus lanes open to all. Bet the bus company could magically find savings with that kind of negotiating stance. So go on greens, fight for public transport! It's in your power (where nationalisation isn't). You can make a difference if you try....
You cannot have london prices -London bus travel is subsidised by the CONGESTION CHARGE - FACT.

DO YOU WANT THE CONGESTION CHARGE IN BRIGHTON?

Bet you don't.

Didn't think of that one in your utopia did you?
It is amazing that so many of the above either voted for a party to privatise the buses or merely meddle with the privatised system and now complain about the system they seem to want!

The bus market has worked as markets do, i.e. to create monopoly suppliers with non-entrepreneurial senior managements paid vast sums and able to soak the customer.

Quite right that at least one local MP speaks out on this matter. Were are Weatherley and Kirby?
@HJarrs - at least comment on what the greens have actually achieved (a very short list!) rather than attacking the opposition as usual!

Perhaps Weatherley and Kirby don't live in the 70s/80s and think that the solution to every problem is leftie nationalisation?

Perhaps you'd have some loony like Ian Davey running it for Brighton & Hove? Well he'll be looking for another job this time next year.

Maybe real competition on the bus routes would be better to resolve a monopoly and to not have a weak council that seems to be controlled by bus companies and do everything they want?
What's wrong Patchy don't you like the "success" of bus privitisation? You vote for these policies, not me. Councils have very little leverage over privately owned utilities. Admittedly the council and bus company have worked well together to improve bus routes and bus priority to give a reasonable alternative to private car use.

B&H buses have hiked up the fares over a number of years, quite right a local MP raises the issue. Weatherley and Kirby nowhere to be seen on a local issue as usual.
@HJarrs - very right Lucas raises the issue - very wrong she immediately reverts to nationalization solutions.

If she is so wonderful, why doesn't she do something really constructive to help address the problem - like sitting down in front of a bus in North Street with a placard? Or how about wearing a t-shirt with a snappy slogan?

Should all industry in the UK be moved out of private ownership and back into public? Sounds a bit like communism to me? Just shows even more that the green party is not really 'green' but instead 'left wing'.

BTW - like your 'humorous' change to my id - and your atrocious spelling. You really are a n excellent advert for the limited intellectual skills of green party supporters.
[quote][p][bold]HJarrs[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]pachallis[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]HJarrs[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]sabbat36[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]NickBtn[/bold] wrote: The green council has some responsibility for this rise - so is Ms Lucas trying to deflect the blame? The greens have given more of the roads across to the effective monopoly of Brighton and Hove buses - yet without negotiation on prices etc. The bus company has repeatedly run rings around the council. Yes, the council has few powers directly on pricing but they do hold a number of strong cards particularly bus lanes As fuel prices are falling so should bus fares (as fuel increases were used as reason for previous rises). The council should allow bus lanes for all road users until prices fall. There is no way that our fares should be higher than London fares yet they are - this should be used as the benchmark - we should be at London minus 10 or 20%. Until we reach that level, bus lanes open to all. Bet the bus company could magically find savings with that kind of negotiating stance. So go on greens, fight for public transport! It's in your power (where nationalisation isn't). You can make a difference if you try....[/p][/quote]You cannot have london prices -London bus travel is subsidised by the CONGESTION CHARGE - FACT. DO YOU WANT THE CONGESTION CHARGE IN BRIGHTON? Bet you don't. Didn't think of that one in your utopia did you?[/p][/quote]It is amazing that so many of the above either voted for a party to privatise the buses or merely meddle with the privatised system and now complain about the system they seem to want! The bus market has worked as markets do, i.e. to create monopoly suppliers with non-entrepreneurial senior managements paid vast sums and able to soak the customer. Quite right that at least one local MP speaks out on this matter. Were are Weatherley and Kirby?[/p][/quote]@HJarrs - at least comment on what the greens have actually achieved (a very short list!) rather than attacking the opposition as usual! Perhaps Weatherley and Kirby don't live in the 70s/80s and think that the solution to every problem is leftie nationalisation? Perhaps you'd have some loony like Ian Davey running it for Brighton & Hove? Well he'll be looking for another job this time next year. Maybe real competition on the bus routes would be better to resolve a monopoly and to not have a weak council that seems to be controlled by bus companies and do everything they want?[/p][/quote]What's wrong Patchy don't you like the "success" of bus privitisation? You vote for these policies, not me. Councils have very little leverage over privately owned utilities. Admittedly the council and bus company have worked well together to improve bus routes and bus priority to give a reasonable alternative to private car use. B&H buses have hiked up the fares over a number of years, quite right a local MP raises the issue. Weatherley and Kirby nowhere to be seen on a local issue as usual.[/p][/quote]@HJarrs - very right Lucas raises the issue - very wrong she immediately reverts to nationalization solutions. If she is so wonderful, why doesn't she do something really constructive to help address the problem - like sitting down in front of a bus in North Street with a placard? Or how about wearing a t-shirt with a snappy slogan? Should all industry in the UK be moved out of private ownership and back into public? Sounds a bit like communism to me? Just shows even more that the green party is not really 'green' but instead 'left wing'. BTW - like your 'humorous' change to my id - and your atrocious spelling. You really are a n excellent advert for the limited intellectual skills of green party supporters. pachallis
  • Score: 7

2:32pm Wed 2 Apr 14

ghost bus driver says...

NickBtn wrote:
brighton bluenose wrote:
NickBtn wrote:
The green council has some responsibility for this rise - so is Ms Lucas trying to deflect the blame? The greens have given more of the roads across to the effective monopoly of Brighton and Hove buses - yet without negotiation on prices etc. The bus company has repeatedly run rings around the council. Yes, the council has few powers directly on pricing but they do hold a number of strong cards particularly bus lanes

As fuel prices are falling so should bus fares (as fuel increases were used as reason for previous rises). The council should allow bus lanes for all road users until prices fall. There is no way that our fares should be higher than London fares yet they are - this should be used as the benchmark - we should be at London minus 10 or 20%. Until we reach that level, bus lanes open to all. Bet the bus company could magically find savings with that kind of negotiating stance. So go on greens, fight for public transport! It's in your power (where nationalisation isn't). You can make a difference if you try....
Perhaps you want to clarify why B&H bus fares should be your arbitrary 10 or 20% lower than London?!
Yes, 10 or 20% less is arbitrary and a good point to start negotiations. Why lower than London? Well wage costs, living costs, office/depot costs etc are all higher in London so you would expect the bus company to have higher costs there than in Brighton. How much would take research - but I'd bet more than 10-20% higher than costs here
London fares are subsidised and set by TFL.£1.40 for Oyster (off peak). If you pay cash in London you pay £2.40 for whatever distance.

Another reason why fuel price goes down and fares don't is because it's hedged, ie several years' worth bought in bulk for one price, protected for x amount of time from price rises, but unfortunately also protected from fuel price falls too. Trust me it sometimes embarasses me to charge £1.60 for a one stop hop and a few times I've just said take a seat.
[quote][p][bold]NickBtn[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]brighton bluenose[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]NickBtn[/bold] wrote: The green council has some responsibility for this rise - so is Ms Lucas trying to deflect the blame? The greens have given more of the roads across to the effective monopoly of Brighton and Hove buses - yet without negotiation on prices etc. The bus company has repeatedly run rings around the council. Yes, the council has few powers directly on pricing but they do hold a number of strong cards particularly bus lanes As fuel prices are falling so should bus fares (as fuel increases were used as reason for previous rises). The council should allow bus lanes for all road users until prices fall. There is no way that our fares should be higher than London fares yet they are - this should be used as the benchmark - we should be at London minus 10 or 20%. Until we reach that level, bus lanes open to all. Bet the bus company could magically find savings with that kind of negotiating stance. So go on greens, fight for public transport! It's in your power (where nationalisation isn't). You can make a difference if you try....[/p][/quote]Perhaps you want to clarify why B&H bus fares should be your arbitrary 10 or 20% lower than London?![/p][/quote]Yes, 10 or 20% less is arbitrary and a good point to start negotiations. Why lower than London? Well wage costs, living costs, office/depot costs etc are all higher in London so you would expect the bus company to have higher costs there than in Brighton. How much would take research - but I'd bet more than 10-20% higher than costs here[/p][/quote]London fares are subsidised and set by TFL.£1.40 for Oyster (off peak). If you pay cash in London you pay £2.40 for whatever distance. Another reason why fuel price goes down and fares don't is because it's hedged, ie several years' worth bought in bulk for one price, protected for x amount of time from price rises, but unfortunately also protected from fuel price falls too. Trust me it sometimes embarasses me to charge £1.60 for a one stop hop and a few times I've just said take a seat. ghost bus driver
  • Score: 9

3:38pm Wed 2 Apr 14

pachallis says...

ghost bus driver wrote:
NickBtn wrote:
brighton bluenose wrote:
NickBtn wrote:
The green council has some responsibility for this rise - so is Ms Lucas trying to deflect the blame? The greens have given more of the roads across to the effective monopoly of Brighton and Hove buses - yet without negotiation on prices etc. The bus company has repeatedly run rings around the council. Yes, the council has few powers directly on pricing but they do hold a number of strong cards particularly bus lanes

As fuel prices are falling so should bus fares (as fuel increases were used as reason for previous rises). The council should allow bus lanes for all road users until prices fall. There is no way that our fares should be higher than London fares yet they are - this should be used as the benchmark - we should be at London minus 10 or 20%. Until we reach that level, bus lanes open to all. Bet the bus company could magically find savings with that kind of negotiating stance. So go on greens, fight for public transport! It's in your power (where nationalisation isn't). You can make a difference if you try....
Perhaps you want to clarify why B&H bus fares should be your arbitrary 10 or 20% lower than London?!
Yes, 10 or 20% less is arbitrary and a good point to start negotiations. Why lower than London? Well wage costs, living costs, office/depot costs etc are all higher in London so you would expect the bus company to have higher costs there than in Brighton. How much would take research - but I'd bet more than 10-20% higher than costs here
London fares are subsidised and set by TFL.£1.40 for Oyster (off peak). If you pay cash in London you pay £2.40 for whatever distance.

Another reason why fuel price goes down and fares don't is because it's hedged, ie several years' worth bought in bulk for one price, protected for x amount of time from price rises, but unfortunately also protected from fuel price falls too. Trust me it sometimes embarasses me to charge £1.60 for a one stop hop and a few times I've just said take a seat.
@ghost bus driver- thanks for this. I make frequent use of short hops (I like to walk to town, do my shopping, and then bus back) and was really annoyed that B&H buses had increased this by 13% from £1.60 to £1.80 - yet again way above other increases.

As there was no reason given for the increase I asked them and Philip Cassinos of the B&H Buses Customer Services Team kindly sent me a response. It is too long to include in it's entirety but the key reasons given were:

1. Fuel is 20% of costs and they hedge prices (as you said) so I assume that as fuel prices have declined this will not be used as an excuse next time.

2. A government grant to bus operators (BSOG) of around 40p per litre of diesel is, apparently, being reduced, although I found no evidence of this on the government web site, and it appears B&H Buses did get over £2m last year. B&H Buses state this has actually increased their fuelprices by 20%.

3. The biggest cost is from paying staff and 'we are rightly expected to agree pay rises with them each year with the trade unions'.

4. There have also been increases in insurance, maintenance, utilities and 'taking cash to the bank'.

Apparently cash fares are the most expensive to collect and they are encouraging customers to switch to m-ticket and saver so that drivers don't have to check balances at the end of the day and staff aren't needed to transfer it to banks.

Unfortunately the only way to buy singles or short-hops is by cash. If only B&H Buses could provide technology to allow e-tickets for these. I suggested that, maybe, they start using credit card swipe - as I believe is being introduced by TFL.

I'm not sure I believe all the details and have asked Philip to respond but I have had no reply so far. In particular I queried the number of buses running off peak that are nearly empty (maybe the service could be reduced during these times to save costs?) and how much revenue they get from concessionary fares -- especially with the 12/13 and 29 services seeming to be being run all day with grey-backs on day trips to Eastbourne or Tunbridge Wells for the day.

It would be nice if Caroline could do more for residents by actually liaising with bus companies rather than just coming up with 'sound bites' such as she seems to have done.

Considering the amount to money B&H city council gives B&H Buses in grants and in improving the infrastructure for them, it is surprising the council could not have negotiated a better deal for residents in return (perhaps by providing some value to us by freezing fares in this time of recession).

Over to you HJarrs for some serious rotation?
[quote][p][bold]ghost bus driver[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]NickBtn[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]brighton bluenose[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]NickBtn[/bold] wrote: The green council has some responsibility for this rise - so is Ms Lucas trying to deflect the blame? The greens have given more of the roads across to the effective monopoly of Brighton and Hove buses - yet without negotiation on prices etc. The bus company has repeatedly run rings around the council. Yes, the council has few powers directly on pricing but they do hold a number of strong cards particularly bus lanes As fuel prices are falling so should bus fares (as fuel increases were used as reason for previous rises). The council should allow bus lanes for all road users until prices fall. There is no way that our fares should be higher than London fares yet they are - this should be used as the benchmark - we should be at London minus 10 or 20%. Until we reach that level, bus lanes open to all. Bet the bus company could magically find savings with that kind of negotiating stance. So go on greens, fight for public transport! It's in your power (where nationalisation isn't). You can make a difference if you try....[/p][/quote]Perhaps you want to clarify why B&H bus fares should be your arbitrary 10 or 20% lower than London?![/p][/quote]Yes, 10 or 20% less is arbitrary and a good point to start negotiations. Why lower than London? Well wage costs, living costs, office/depot costs etc are all higher in London so you would expect the bus company to have higher costs there than in Brighton. How much would take research - but I'd bet more than 10-20% higher than costs here[/p][/quote]London fares are subsidised and set by TFL.£1.40 for Oyster (off peak). If you pay cash in London you pay £2.40 for whatever distance. Another reason why fuel price goes down and fares don't is because it's hedged, ie several years' worth bought in bulk for one price, protected for x amount of time from price rises, but unfortunately also protected from fuel price falls too. Trust me it sometimes embarasses me to charge £1.60 for a one stop hop and a few times I've just said take a seat.[/p][/quote]@ghost bus driver- thanks for this. I make frequent use of short hops (I like to walk to town, do my shopping, and then bus back) and was really annoyed that B&H buses had increased this by 13% from £1.60 to £1.80 - yet again way above other increases. As there was no reason given for the increase I asked them and Philip Cassinos of the B&H Buses Customer Services Team kindly sent me a response. It is too long to include in it's entirety but the key reasons given were: 1. Fuel is 20% of costs and they hedge prices (as you said) so I assume that as fuel prices have declined this will not be used as an excuse next time. 2. A government grant to bus operators (BSOG) of around 40p per litre of diesel is, apparently, being reduced, although I found no evidence of this on the government web site, and it appears B&H Buses did get over £2m last year. B&H Buses state this has actually increased their fuelprices by 20%. 3. The biggest cost is from paying staff and 'we are rightly expected to agree pay rises with them each year with the trade unions'. 4. There have also been increases in insurance, maintenance, utilities and 'taking cash to the bank'. Apparently cash fares are the most expensive to collect and they are encouraging customers to switch to m-ticket and saver so that drivers don't have to check balances at the end of the day and staff aren't needed to transfer it to banks. Unfortunately the only way to buy singles or short-hops is by cash. If only B&H Buses could provide technology to allow e-tickets for these. I suggested that, maybe, they start using credit card swipe - as I believe is being introduced by TFL. I'm not sure I believe all the details and have asked Philip to respond but I have had no reply so far. In particular I queried the number of buses running off peak that are nearly empty (maybe the service could be reduced during these times to save costs?) and how much revenue they get from concessionary fares -- especially with the 12/13 and 29 services seeming to be being run all day with grey-backs on day trips to Eastbourne or Tunbridge Wells for the day. It would be nice if Caroline could do more for residents by actually liaising with bus companies rather than just coming up with 'sound bites' such as she seems to have done. Considering the amount to money B&H city council gives B&H Buses in grants and in improving the infrastructure for them, it is surprising the council could not have negotiated a better deal for residents in return (perhaps by providing some value to us by freezing fares in this time of recession). Over to you HJarrs for some serious rotation? pachallis
  • Score: 10

6:29pm Wed 2 Apr 14

ghost bus driver says...

pachallis wrote:
ghost bus driver wrote:
NickBtn wrote:
brighton bluenose wrote:
NickBtn wrote:
The green council has some responsibility for this rise - so is Ms Lucas trying to deflect the blame? The greens have given more of the roads across to the effective monopoly of Brighton and Hove buses - yet without negotiation on prices etc. The bus company has repeatedly run rings around the council. Yes, the council has few powers directly on pricing but they do hold a number of strong cards particularly bus lanes

As fuel prices are falling so should bus fares (as fuel increases were used as reason for previous rises). The council should allow bus lanes for all road users until prices fall. There is no way that our fares should be higher than London fares yet they are - this should be used as the benchmark - we should be at London minus 10 or 20%. Until we reach that level, bus lanes open to all. Bet the bus company could magically find savings with that kind of negotiating stance. So go on greens, fight for public transport! It's in your power (where nationalisation isn't). You can make a difference if you try....
Perhaps you want to clarify why B&H bus fares should be your arbitrary 10 or 20% lower than London?!
Yes, 10 or 20% less is arbitrary and a good point to start negotiations. Why lower than London? Well wage costs, living costs, office/depot costs etc are all higher in London so you would expect the bus company to have higher costs there than in Brighton. How much would take research - but I'd bet more than 10-20% higher than costs here
London fares are subsidised and set by TFL.£1.40 for Oyster (off peak). If you pay cash in London you pay £2.40 for whatever distance.

Another reason why fuel price goes down and fares don't is because it's hedged, ie several years' worth bought in bulk for one price, protected for x amount of time from price rises, but unfortunately also protected from fuel price falls too. Trust me it sometimes embarasses me to charge £1.60 for a one stop hop and a few times I've just said take a seat.
@ghost bus driver- thanks for this. I make frequent use of short hops (I like to walk to town, do my shopping, and then bus back) and was really annoyed that B&H buses had increased this by 13% from £1.60 to £1.80 - yet again way above other increases.

As there was no reason given for the increase I asked them and Philip Cassinos of the B&H Buses Customer Services Team kindly sent me a response. It is too long to include in it's entirety but the key reasons given were:

1. Fuel is 20% of costs and they hedge prices (as you said) so I assume that as fuel prices have declined this will not be used as an excuse next time.

2. A government grant to bus operators (BSOG) of around 40p per litre of diesel is, apparently, being reduced, although I found no evidence of this on the government web site, and it appears B&H Buses did get over £2m last year. B&H Buses state this has actually increased their fuelprices by 20%.

3. The biggest cost is from paying staff and 'we are rightly expected to agree pay rises with them each year with the trade unions'.

4. There have also been increases in insurance, maintenance, utilities and 'taking cash to the bank'.

Apparently cash fares are the most expensive to collect and they are encouraging customers to switch to m-ticket and saver so that drivers don't have to check balances at the end of the day and staff aren't needed to transfer it to banks.

Unfortunately the only way to buy singles or short-hops is by cash. If only B&H Buses could provide technology to allow e-tickets for these. I suggested that, maybe, they start using credit card swipe - as I believe is being introduced by TFL.

I'm not sure I believe all the details and have asked Philip to respond but I have had no reply so far. In particular I queried the number of buses running off peak that are nearly empty (maybe the service could be reduced during these times to save costs?) and how much revenue they get from concessionary fares -- especially with the 12/13 and 29 services seeming to be being run all day with grey-backs on day trips to Eastbourne or Tunbridge Wells for the day.

It would be nice if Caroline could do more for residents by actually liaising with bus companies rather than just coming up with 'sound bites' such as she seems to have done.

Considering the amount to money B&H city council gives B&H Buses in grants and in improving the infrastructure for them, it is surprising the council could not have negotiated a better deal for residents in return (perhaps by providing some value to us by freezing fares in this time of recession).

Over to you HJarrs for some serious rotation?
Hi and thanks for the reply

Yes the fuel grant is being reduced hence the rush (especially in London) to introduce buses that use less diesel, such as hybrids and when the technology gets cheaper (and works properly lol) we may see trials of hydrogen fuel cell or even induction charged electric buses like they have in Milton Keynes, although I can't see those on the 29s/12s etc just yet.

One other thing that might not have been mentioned is that the cash is all handled by an outside contractor now so there's probably a cost there too.

There is talk of a Key card that works like an Oyster, with credit that comes off each time its swiped, but I think there's a lot of testing to be done first (remember how the Key was introduced in stages?) but I think its one of those cases of never say never.
[quote][p][bold]pachallis[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]ghost bus driver[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]NickBtn[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]brighton bluenose[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]NickBtn[/bold] wrote: The green council has some responsibility for this rise - so is Ms Lucas trying to deflect the blame? The greens have given more of the roads across to the effective monopoly of Brighton and Hove buses - yet without negotiation on prices etc. The bus company has repeatedly run rings around the council. Yes, the council has few powers directly on pricing but they do hold a number of strong cards particularly bus lanes As fuel prices are falling so should bus fares (as fuel increases were used as reason for previous rises). The council should allow bus lanes for all road users until prices fall. There is no way that our fares should be higher than London fares yet they are - this should be used as the benchmark - we should be at London minus 10 or 20%. Until we reach that level, bus lanes open to all. Bet the bus company could magically find savings with that kind of negotiating stance. So go on greens, fight for public transport! It's in your power (where nationalisation isn't). You can make a difference if you try....[/p][/quote]Perhaps you want to clarify why B&H bus fares should be your arbitrary 10 or 20% lower than London?![/p][/quote]Yes, 10 or 20% less is arbitrary and a good point to start negotiations. Why lower than London? Well wage costs, living costs, office/depot costs etc are all higher in London so you would expect the bus company to have higher costs there than in Brighton. How much would take research - but I'd bet more than 10-20% higher than costs here[/p][/quote]London fares are subsidised and set by TFL.£1.40 for Oyster (off peak). If you pay cash in London you pay £2.40 for whatever distance. Another reason why fuel price goes down and fares don't is because it's hedged, ie several years' worth bought in bulk for one price, protected for x amount of time from price rises, but unfortunately also protected from fuel price falls too. Trust me it sometimes embarasses me to charge £1.60 for a one stop hop and a few times I've just said take a seat.[/p][/quote]@ghost bus driver- thanks for this. I make frequent use of short hops (I like to walk to town, do my shopping, and then bus back) and was really annoyed that B&H buses had increased this by 13% from £1.60 to £1.80 - yet again way above other increases. As there was no reason given for the increase I asked them and Philip Cassinos of the B&H Buses Customer Services Team kindly sent me a response. It is too long to include in it's entirety but the key reasons given were: 1. Fuel is 20% of costs and they hedge prices (as you said) so I assume that as fuel prices have declined this will not be used as an excuse next time. 2. A government grant to bus operators (BSOG) of around 40p per litre of diesel is, apparently, being reduced, although I found no evidence of this on the government web site, and it appears B&H Buses did get over £2m last year. B&H Buses state this has actually increased their fuelprices by 20%. 3. The biggest cost is from paying staff and 'we are rightly expected to agree pay rises with them each year with the trade unions'. 4. There have also been increases in insurance, maintenance, utilities and 'taking cash to the bank'. Apparently cash fares are the most expensive to collect and they are encouraging customers to switch to m-ticket and saver so that drivers don't have to check balances at the end of the day and staff aren't needed to transfer it to banks. Unfortunately the only way to buy singles or short-hops is by cash. If only B&H Buses could provide technology to allow e-tickets for these. I suggested that, maybe, they start using credit card swipe - as I believe is being introduced by TFL. I'm not sure I believe all the details and have asked Philip to respond but I have had no reply so far. In particular I queried the number of buses running off peak that are nearly empty (maybe the service could be reduced during these times to save costs?) and how much revenue they get from concessionary fares -- especially with the 12/13 and 29 services seeming to be being run all day with grey-backs on day trips to Eastbourne or Tunbridge Wells for the day. It would be nice if Caroline could do more for residents by actually liaising with bus companies rather than just coming up with 'sound bites' such as she seems to have done. Considering the amount to money B&H city council gives B&H Buses in grants and in improving the infrastructure for them, it is surprising the council could not have negotiated a better deal for residents in return (perhaps by providing some value to us by freezing fares in this time of recession). Over to you HJarrs for some serious rotation?[/p][/quote]Hi and thanks for the reply Yes the fuel grant is being reduced hence the rush (especially in London) to introduce buses that use less diesel, such as hybrids and when the technology gets cheaper (and works properly lol) we may see trials of hydrogen fuel cell or even induction charged electric buses like they have in Milton Keynes, although I can't see those on the 29s/12s etc just yet. One other thing that might not have been mentioned is that the cash is all handled by an outside contractor now so there's probably a cost there too. There is talk of a Key card that works like an Oyster, with credit that comes off each time its swiped, but I think there's a lot of testing to be done first (remember how the Key was introduced in stages?) but I think its one of those cases of never say never. ghost bus driver
  • Score: 6

11:51am Thu 3 Apr 14

E for Idiot says...

Come on you lot. You bite every time. Nice trolling by Green_Girl_1990 although not up to usual standards. It's a great source of entertainment when they get involved.

Let's see now ....

Green..... Very very doubtful, a trolls position will always be the one that causes the most consternation within their target audience.

Girl ...... Nope , almost certainly not.

1990 .. Possibly , I'd put them slightly older and no way are they a a student at uni.

Don't acknowledge them and they will get bored. They may come back in a few different guises but eventually it will get tedious to them.

Remember folks. DON'T FEED THE TROLL.

PS. Bluenose isn't anywhere near as entertaining as GG. Must try harder.
Come on you lot. You bite every time. Nice trolling by Green_Girl_1990 although not up to usual standards. It's a great source of entertainment when they get involved. Let's see now .... Green..... Very very doubtful, a trolls position will always be the one that causes the most consternation within their target audience. Girl ...... Nope , almost certainly not. 1990 .. Possibly , I'd put them slightly older and no way are they a a student at uni. Don't acknowledge them and they will get bored. They may come back in a few different guises but eventually it will get tedious to them. Remember folks. DON'T FEED THE TROLL. PS. Bluenose isn't anywhere near as entertaining as GG. Must try harder. E for Idiot
  • Score: 3

6:02pm Thu 3 Apr 14

her professional says...

jackthekipper wrote:
most expensive buses in the uk if not europe
Your evidence please
[quote][p][bold]jackthekipper[/bold] wrote: most expensive buses in the uk if not europe[/p][/quote]Your evidence please her professional
  • Score: -1

6:26pm Thu 3 Apr 14

her professional says...

pachallis wrote:
ghost bus driver wrote:
NickBtn wrote:
brighton bluenose wrote:
NickBtn wrote:
The green council has some responsibility for this rise - so is Ms Lucas trying to deflect the blame? The greens have given more of the roads across to the effective monopoly of Brighton and Hove buses - yet without negotiation on prices etc. The bus company has repeatedly run rings around the council. Yes, the council has few powers directly on pricing but they do hold a number of strong cards particularly bus lanes

As fuel prices are falling so should bus fares (as fuel increases were used as reason for previous rises). The council should allow bus lanes for all road users until prices fall. There is no way that our fares should be higher than London fares yet they are - this should be used as the benchmark - we should be at London minus 10 or 20%. Until we reach that level, bus lanes open to all. Bet the bus company could magically find savings with that kind of negotiating stance. So go on greens, fight for public transport! It's in your power (where nationalisation isn't). You can make a difference if you try....
Perhaps you want to clarify why B&H bus fares should be your arbitrary 10 or 20% lower than London?!
Yes, 10 or 20% less is arbitrary and a good point to start negotiations. Why lower than London? Well wage costs, living costs, office/depot costs etc are all higher in London so you would expect the bus company to have higher costs there than in Brighton. How much would take research - but I'd bet more than 10-20% higher than costs here
London fares are subsidised and set by TFL.£1.40 for Oyster (off peak). If you pay cash in London you pay £2.40 for whatever distance.

Another reason why fuel price goes down and fares don't is because it's hedged, ie several years' worth bought in bulk for one price, protected for x amount of time from price rises, but unfortunately also protected from fuel price falls too. Trust me it sometimes embarasses me to charge £1.60 for a one stop hop and a few times I've just said take a seat.
@ghost bus driver- thanks for this. I make frequent use of short hops (I like to walk to town, do my shopping, and then bus back) and was really annoyed that B&H buses had increased this by 13% from £1.60 to £1.80 - yet again way above other increases.

As there was no reason given for the increase I asked them and Philip Cassinos of the B&H Buses Customer Services Team kindly sent me a response. It is too long to include in it's entirety but the key reasons given were:

1. Fuel is 20% of costs and they hedge prices (as you said) so I assume that as fuel prices have declined this will not be used as an excuse next time.

2. A government grant to bus operators (BSOG) of around 40p per litre of diesel is, apparently, being reduced, although I found no evidence of this on the government web site, and it appears B&H Buses did get over £2m last year. B&H Buses state this has actually increased their fuelprices by 20%.

3. The biggest cost is from paying staff and 'we are rightly expected to agree pay rises with them each year with the trade unions'.

4. There have also been increases in insurance, maintenance, utilities and 'taking cash to the bank'.

Apparently cash fares are the most expensive to collect and they are encouraging customers to switch to m-ticket and saver so that drivers don't have to check balances at the end of the day and staff aren't needed to transfer it to banks.

Unfortunately the only way to buy singles or short-hops is by cash. If only B&H Buses could provide technology to allow e-tickets for these. I suggested that, maybe, they start using credit card swipe - as I believe is being introduced by TFL.

I'm not sure I believe all the details and have asked Philip to respond but I have had no reply so far. In particular I queried the number of buses running off peak that are nearly empty (maybe the service could be reduced during these times to save costs?) and how much revenue they get from concessionary fares -- especially with the 12/13 and 29 services seeming to be being run all day with grey-backs on day trips to Eastbourne or Tunbridge Wells for the day.

It would be nice if Caroline could do more for residents by actually liaising with bus companies rather than just coming up with 'sound bites' such as she seems to have done.

Considering the amount to money B&H city council gives B&H Buses in grants and in improving the infrastructure for them, it is surprising the council could not have negotiated a better deal for residents in return (perhaps by providing some value to us by freezing fares in this time of recession).

Over to you HJarrs for some serious rotation?
Reducing service levels off peak makes no sense - it would simply result in even less people travelling by bus due to the longer wait times, and a downward spiral would begin. The policy over the years of increasing frequencies to "turn up and go" levels has been highly successful, with the Bus Company turning round a steady decline into a year on year increase in the numbers travelling (against the national trend for several years incidentally).
By the way, your unpleasant comments regarding "grey backs going for day trips" do you no favours. A lot of people over 65 are still income tax and council tax payers, and many of them are still working. Those who are just going for a day trip will probably be spending some money at their destination, helping the local economy. Please don't be so patronising.
[quote][p][bold]pachallis[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]ghost bus driver[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]NickBtn[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]brighton bluenose[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]NickBtn[/bold] wrote: The green council has some responsibility for this rise - so is Ms Lucas trying to deflect the blame? The greens have given more of the roads across to the effective monopoly of Brighton and Hove buses - yet without negotiation on prices etc. The bus company has repeatedly run rings around the council. Yes, the council has few powers directly on pricing but they do hold a number of strong cards particularly bus lanes As fuel prices are falling so should bus fares (as fuel increases were used as reason for previous rises). The council should allow bus lanes for all road users until prices fall. There is no way that our fares should be higher than London fares yet they are - this should be used as the benchmark - we should be at London minus 10 or 20%. Until we reach that level, bus lanes open to all. Bet the bus company could magically find savings with that kind of negotiating stance. So go on greens, fight for public transport! It's in your power (where nationalisation isn't). You can make a difference if you try....[/p][/quote]Perhaps you want to clarify why B&H bus fares should be your arbitrary 10 or 20% lower than London?![/p][/quote]Yes, 10 or 20% less is arbitrary and a good point to start negotiations. Why lower than London? Well wage costs, living costs, office/depot costs etc are all higher in London so you would expect the bus company to have higher costs there than in Brighton. How much would take research - but I'd bet more than 10-20% higher than costs here[/p][/quote]London fares are subsidised and set by TFL.£1.40 for Oyster (off peak). If you pay cash in London you pay £2.40 for whatever distance. Another reason why fuel price goes down and fares don't is because it's hedged, ie several years' worth bought in bulk for one price, protected for x amount of time from price rises, but unfortunately also protected from fuel price falls too. Trust me it sometimes embarasses me to charge £1.60 for a one stop hop and a few times I've just said take a seat.[/p][/quote]@ghost bus driver- thanks for this. I make frequent use of short hops (I like to walk to town, do my shopping, and then bus back) and was really annoyed that B&H buses had increased this by 13% from £1.60 to £1.80 - yet again way above other increases. As there was no reason given for the increase I asked them and Philip Cassinos of the B&H Buses Customer Services Team kindly sent me a response. It is too long to include in it's entirety but the key reasons given were: 1. Fuel is 20% of costs and they hedge prices (as you said) so I assume that as fuel prices have declined this will not be used as an excuse next time. 2. A government grant to bus operators (BSOG) of around 40p per litre of diesel is, apparently, being reduced, although I found no evidence of this on the government web site, and it appears B&H Buses did get over £2m last year. B&H Buses state this has actually increased their fuelprices by 20%. 3. The biggest cost is from paying staff and 'we are rightly expected to agree pay rises with them each year with the trade unions'. 4. There have also been increases in insurance, maintenance, utilities and 'taking cash to the bank'. Apparently cash fares are the most expensive to collect and they are encouraging customers to switch to m-ticket and saver so that drivers don't have to check balances at the end of the day and staff aren't needed to transfer it to banks. Unfortunately the only way to buy singles or short-hops is by cash. If only B&H Buses could provide technology to allow e-tickets for these. I suggested that, maybe, they start using credit card swipe - as I believe is being introduced by TFL. I'm not sure I believe all the details and have asked Philip to respond but I have had no reply so far. In particular I queried the number of buses running off peak that are nearly empty (maybe the service could be reduced during these times to save costs?) and how much revenue they get from concessionary fares -- especially with the 12/13 and 29 services seeming to be being run all day with grey-backs on day trips to Eastbourne or Tunbridge Wells for the day. It would be nice if Caroline could do more for residents by actually liaising with bus companies rather than just coming up with 'sound bites' such as she seems to have done. Considering the amount to money B&H city council gives B&H Buses in grants and in improving the infrastructure for them, it is surprising the council could not have negotiated a better deal for residents in return (perhaps by providing some value to us by freezing fares in this time of recession). Over to you HJarrs for some serious rotation?[/p][/quote]Reducing service levels off peak makes no sense - it would simply result in even less people travelling by bus due to the longer wait times, and a downward spiral would begin. The policy over the years of increasing frequencies to "turn up and go" levels has been highly successful, with the Bus Company turning round a steady decline into a year on year increase in the numbers travelling (against the national trend for several years incidentally). By the way, your unpleasant comments regarding "grey backs going for day trips" do you no favours. A lot of people over 65 are still income tax and council tax payers, and many of them are still working. Those who are just going for a day trip will probably be spending some money at their destination, helping the local economy. Please don't be so patronising. her professional
  • Score: 1

7:00pm Thu 3 Apr 14

pachallis says...

her professional wrote:
pachallis wrote:
ghost bus driver wrote:
NickBtn wrote:
brighton bluenose wrote:
NickBtn wrote:
The green council has some responsibility for this rise - so is Ms Lucas trying to deflect the blame? The greens have given more of the roads across to the effective monopoly of Brighton and Hove buses - yet without negotiation on prices etc. The bus company has repeatedly run rings around the council. Yes, the council has few powers directly on pricing but they do hold a number of strong cards particularly bus lanes

As fuel prices are falling so should bus fares (as fuel increases were used as reason for previous rises). The council should allow bus lanes for all road users until prices fall. There is no way that our fares should be higher than London fares yet they are - this should be used as the benchmark - we should be at London minus 10 or 20%. Until we reach that level, bus lanes open to all. Bet the bus company could magically find savings with that kind of negotiating stance. So go on greens, fight for public transport! It's in your power (where nationalisation isn't). You can make a difference if you try....
Perhaps you want to clarify why B&H bus fares should be your arbitrary 10 or 20% lower than London?!
Yes, 10 or 20% less is arbitrary and a good point to start negotiations. Why lower than London? Well wage costs, living costs, office/depot costs etc are all higher in London so you would expect the bus company to have higher costs there than in Brighton. How much would take research - but I'd bet more than 10-20% higher than costs here
London fares are subsidised and set by TFL.£1.40 for Oyster (off peak). If you pay cash in London you pay £2.40 for whatever distance.

Another reason why fuel price goes down and fares don't is because it's hedged, ie several years' worth bought in bulk for one price, protected for x amount of time from price rises, but unfortunately also protected from fuel price falls too. Trust me it sometimes embarasses me to charge £1.60 for a one stop hop and a few times I've just said take a seat.
@ghost bus driver- thanks for this. I make frequent use of short hops (I like to walk to town, do my shopping, and then bus back) and was really annoyed that B&H buses had increased this by 13% from £1.60 to £1.80 - yet again way above other increases.

As there was no reason given for the increase I asked them and Philip Cassinos of the B&H Buses Customer Services Team kindly sent me a response. It is too long to include in it's entirety but the key reasons given were:

1. Fuel is 20% of costs and they hedge prices (as you said) so I assume that as fuel prices have declined this will not be used as an excuse next time.

2. A government grant to bus operators (BSOG) of around 40p per litre of diesel is, apparently, being reduced, although I found no evidence of this on the government web site, and it appears B&H Buses did get over £2m last year. B&H Buses state this has actually increased their fuelprices by 20%.

3. The biggest cost is from paying staff and 'we are rightly expected to agree pay rises with them each year with the trade unions'.

4. There have also been increases in insurance, maintenance, utilities and 'taking cash to the bank'.

Apparently cash fares are the most expensive to collect and they are encouraging customers to switch to m-ticket and saver so that drivers don't have to check balances at the end of the day and staff aren't needed to transfer it to banks.

Unfortunately the only way to buy singles or short-hops is by cash. If only B&H Buses could provide technology to allow e-tickets for these. I suggested that, maybe, they start using credit card swipe - as I believe is being introduced by TFL.

I'm not sure I believe all the details and have asked Philip to respond but I have had no reply so far. In particular I queried the number of buses running off peak that are nearly empty (maybe the service could be reduced during these times to save costs?) and how much revenue they get from concessionary fares -- especially with the 12/13 and 29 services seeming to be being run all day with grey-backs on day trips to Eastbourne or Tunbridge Wells for the day.

It would be nice if Caroline could do more for residents by actually liaising with bus companies rather than just coming up with 'sound bites' such as she seems to have done.

Considering the amount to money B&H city council gives B&H Buses in grants and in improving the infrastructure for them, it is surprising the council could not have negotiated a better deal for residents in return (perhaps by providing some value to us by freezing fares in this time of recession).

Over to you HJarrs for some serious rotation?
Reducing service levels off peak makes no sense - it would simply result in even less people travelling by bus due to the longer wait times, and a downward spiral would begin. The policy over the years of increasing frequencies to "turn up and go" levels has been highly successful, with the Bus Company turning round a steady decline into a year on year increase in the numbers travelling (against the national trend for several years incidentally).
By the way, your unpleasant comments regarding "grey backs going for day trips" do you no favours. A lot of people over 65 are still income tax and council tax payers, and many of them are still working. Those who are just going for a day trip will probably be spending some money at their destination, helping the local economy. Please don't be so patronising.
@her professional - running excessive numbers of off peak services just to make the service more attractive if it ends up costing us rates, taxes and increasing pollution is, IMHO, insane.

Sure - have the frequency to deal with peak times to encourage people to avoid driving to and from work, but other times, as long as there is a regular punctual service then that is all that matters.

Regarding 'grey backs' - I am one myself so feel I can use the term freely- if you don't like that - tough - I am proud to be a 'grey back' and will continue to use the term if I wish - Ms. Thought Policewoman!

In a time of recession, savings have to be made. Concessionary bus fares (at 90p per tap) must cost the country a lot - if they weren't so lucrative for bus companies I imagine they would be reducing services themselves.

Some 'grey backs' make really excessive, wasteful use of these facilities. I know for some people these free rides are a godsend, but others are just abusing the system - perhaps if 'grey backs' were given 2 free rides per day and above this they got half price so they could realise the cost?
[quote][p][bold]her professional[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]pachallis[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]ghost bus driver[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]NickBtn[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]brighton bluenose[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]NickBtn[/bold] wrote: The green council has some responsibility for this rise - so is Ms Lucas trying to deflect the blame? The greens have given more of the roads across to the effective monopoly of Brighton and Hove buses - yet without negotiation on prices etc. The bus company has repeatedly run rings around the council. Yes, the council has few powers directly on pricing but they do hold a number of strong cards particularly bus lanes As fuel prices are falling so should bus fares (as fuel increases were used as reason for previous rises). The council should allow bus lanes for all road users until prices fall. There is no way that our fares should be higher than London fares yet they are - this should be used as the benchmark - we should be at London minus 10 or 20%. Until we reach that level, bus lanes open to all. Bet the bus company could magically find savings with that kind of negotiating stance. So go on greens, fight for public transport! It's in your power (where nationalisation isn't). You can make a difference if you try....[/p][/quote]Perhaps you want to clarify why B&H bus fares should be your arbitrary 10 or 20% lower than London?![/p][/quote]Yes, 10 or 20% less is arbitrary and a good point to start negotiations. Why lower than London? Well wage costs, living costs, office/depot costs etc are all higher in London so you would expect the bus company to have higher costs there than in Brighton. How much would take research - but I'd bet more than 10-20% higher than costs here[/p][/quote]London fares are subsidised and set by TFL.£1.40 for Oyster (off peak). If you pay cash in London you pay £2.40 for whatever distance. Another reason why fuel price goes down and fares don't is because it's hedged, ie several years' worth bought in bulk for one price, protected for x amount of time from price rises, but unfortunately also protected from fuel price falls too. Trust me it sometimes embarasses me to charge £1.60 for a one stop hop and a few times I've just said take a seat.[/p][/quote]@ghost bus driver- thanks for this. I make frequent use of short hops (I like to walk to town, do my shopping, and then bus back) and was really annoyed that B&H buses had increased this by 13% from £1.60 to £1.80 - yet again way above other increases. As there was no reason given for the increase I asked them and Philip Cassinos of the B&H Buses Customer Services Team kindly sent me a response. It is too long to include in it's entirety but the key reasons given were: 1. Fuel is 20% of costs and they hedge prices (as you said) so I assume that as fuel prices have declined this will not be used as an excuse next time. 2. A government grant to bus operators (BSOG) of around 40p per litre of diesel is, apparently, being reduced, although I found no evidence of this on the government web site, and it appears B&H Buses did get over £2m last year. B&H Buses state this has actually increased their fuelprices by 20%. 3. The biggest cost is from paying staff and 'we are rightly expected to agree pay rises with them each year with the trade unions'. 4. There have also been increases in insurance, maintenance, utilities and 'taking cash to the bank'. Apparently cash fares are the most expensive to collect and they are encouraging customers to switch to m-ticket and saver so that drivers don't have to check balances at the end of the day and staff aren't needed to transfer it to banks. Unfortunately the only way to buy singles or short-hops is by cash. If only B&H Buses could provide technology to allow e-tickets for these. I suggested that, maybe, they start using credit card swipe - as I believe is being introduced by TFL. I'm not sure I believe all the details and have asked Philip to respond but I have had no reply so far. In particular I queried the number of buses running off peak that are nearly empty (maybe the service could be reduced during these times to save costs?) and how much revenue they get from concessionary fares -- especially with the 12/13 and 29 services seeming to be being run all day with grey-backs on day trips to Eastbourne or Tunbridge Wells for the day. It would be nice if Caroline could do more for residents by actually liaising with bus companies rather than just coming up with 'sound bites' such as she seems to have done. Considering the amount to money B&H city council gives B&H Buses in grants and in improving the infrastructure for them, it is surprising the council could not have negotiated a better deal for residents in return (perhaps by providing some value to us by freezing fares in this time of recession). Over to you HJarrs for some serious rotation?[/p][/quote]Reducing service levels off peak makes no sense - it would simply result in even less people travelling by bus due to the longer wait times, and a downward spiral would begin. The policy over the years of increasing frequencies to "turn up and go" levels has been highly successful, with the Bus Company turning round a steady decline into a year on year increase in the numbers travelling (against the national trend for several years incidentally). By the way, your unpleasant comments regarding "grey backs going for day trips" do you no favours. A lot of people over 65 are still income tax and council tax payers, and many of them are still working. Those who are just going for a day trip will probably be spending some money at their destination, helping the local economy. Please don't be so patronising.[/p][/quote]@her professional - running excessive numbers of off peak services just to make the service more attractive if it ends up costing us rates, taxes and increasing pollution is, IMHO, insane. Sure - have the frequency to deal with peak times to encourage people to avoid driving to and from work, but other times, as long as there is a regular punctual service then that is all that matters. Regarding 'grey backs' - I am one myself so feel I can use the term freely- if you don't like that - tough - I am proud to be a 'grey back' and will continue to use the term if I wish - Ms. Thought Policewoman! In a time of recession, savings have to be made. Concessionary bus fares (at 90p per tap) must cost the country a lot - if they weren't so lucrative for bus companies I imagine they would be reducing services themselves. Some 'grey backs' make really excessive, wasteful use of these facilities. I know for some people these free rides are a godsend, but others are just abusing the system - perhaps if 'grey backs' were given 2 free rides per day and above this they got half price so they could realise the cost? pachallis
  • Score: 3

9:21pm Thu 3 Apr 14

her professional says...

pachallis wrote:
her professional wrote:
pachallis wrote:
ghost bus driver wrote:
NickBtn wrote:
brighton bluenose wrote:
NickBtn wrote:
The green council has some responsibility for this rise - so is Ms Lucas trying to deflect the blame? The greens have given more of the roads across to the effective monopoly of Brighton and Hove buses - yet without negotiation on prices etc. The bus company has repeatedly run rings around the council. Yes, the council has few powers directly on pricing but they do hold a number of strong cards particularly bus lanes

As fuel prices are falling so should bus fares (as fuel increases were used as reason for previous rises). The council should allow bus lanes for all road users until prices fall. There is no way that our fares should be higher than London fares yet they are - this should be used as the benchmark - we should be at London minus 10 or 20%. Until we reach that level, bus lanes open to all. Bet the bus company could magically find savings with that kind of negotiating stance. So go on greens, fight for public transport! It's in your power (where nationalisation isn't). You can make a difference if you try....
Perhaps you want to clarify why B&H bus fares should be your arbitrary 10 or 20% lower than London?!
Yes, 10 or 20% less is arbitrary and a good point to start negotiations. Why lower than London? Well wage costs, living costs, office/depot costs etc are all higher in London so you would expect the bus company to have higher costs there than in Brighton. How much would take research - but I'd bet more than 10-20% higher than costs here
London fares are subsidised and set by TFL.£1.40 for Oyster (off peak). If you pay cash in London you pay £2.40 for whatever distance.

Another reason why fuel price goes down and fares don't is because it's hedged, ie several years' worth bought in bulk for one price, protected for x amount of time from price rises, but unfortunately also protected from fuel price falls too. Trust me it sometimes embarasses me to charge £1.60 for a one stop hop and a few times I've just said take a seat.
@ghost bus driver- thanks for this. I make frequent use of short hops (I like to walk to town, do my shopping, and then bus back) and was really annoyed that B&H buses had increased this by 13% from £1.60 to £1.80 - yet again way above other increases.

As there was no reason given for the increase I asked them and Philip Cassinos of the B&H Buses Customer Services Team kindly sent me a response. It is too long to include in it's entirety but the key reasons given were:

1. Fuel is 20% of costs and they hedge prices (as you said) so I assume that as fuel prices have declined this will not be used as an excuse next time.

2. A government grant to bus operators (BSOG) of around 40p per litre of diesel is, apparently, being reduced, although I found no evidence of this on the government web site, and it appears B&H Buses did get over £2m last year. B&H Buses state this has actually increased their fuelprices by 20%.

3. The biggest cost is from paying staff and 'we are rightly expected to agree pay rises with them each year with the trade unions'.

4. There have also been increases in insurance, maintenance, utilities and 'taking cash to the bank'.

Apparently cash fares are the most expensive to collect and they are encouraging customers to switch to m-ticket and saver so that drivers don't have to check balances at the end of the day and staff aren't needed to transfer it to banks.

Unfortunately the only way to buy singles or short-hops is by cash. If only B&H Buses could provide technology to allow e-tickets for these. I suggested that, maybe, they start using credit card swipe - as I believe is being introduced by TFL.

I'm not sure I believe all the details and have asked Philip to respond but I have had no reply so far. In particular I queried the number of buses running off peak that are nearly empty (maybe the service could be reduced during these times to save costs?) and how much revenue they get from concessionary fares -- especially with the 12/13 and 29 services seeming to be being run all day with grey-backs on day trips to Eastbourne or Tunbridge Wells for the day.

It would be nice if Caroline could do more for residents by actually liaising with bus companies rather than just coming up with 'sound bites' such as she seems to have done.

Considering the amount to money B&H city council gives B&H Buses in grants and in improving the infrastructure for them, it is surprising the council could not have negotiated a better deal for residents in return (perhaps by providing some value to us by freezing fares in this time of recession).

Over to you HJarrs for some serious rotation?
Reducing service levels off peak makes no sense - it would simply result in even less people travelling by bus due to the longer wait times, and a downward spiral would begin. The policy over the years of increasing frequencies to "turn up and go" levels has been highly successful, with the Bus Company turning round a steady decline into a year on year increase in the numbers travelling (against the national trend for several years incidentally).
By the way, your unpleasant comments regarding "grey backs going for day trips" do you no favours. A lot of people over 65 are still income tax and council tax payers, and many of them are still working. Those who are just going for a day trip will probably be spending some money at their destination, helping the local economy. Please don't be so patronising.
@her professional - running excessive numbers of off peak services just to make the service more attractive if it ends up costing us rates, taxes and increasing pollution is, IMHO, insane.

Sure - have the frequency to deal with peak times to encourage people to avoid driving to and from work, but other times, as long as there is a regular punctual service then that is all that matters.

Regarding 'grey backs' - I am one myself so feel I can use the term freely- if you don't like that - tough - I am proud to be a 'grey back' and will continue to use the term if I wish - Ms. Thought Policewoman!

In a time of recession, savings have to be made. Concessionary bus fares (at 90p per tap) must cost the country a lot - if they weren't so lucrative for bus companies I imagine they would be reducing services themselves.

Some 'grey backs' make really excessive, wasteful use of these facilities. I know for some people these free rides are a godsend, but others are just abusing the system - perhaps if 'grey backs' were given 2 free rides per day and above this they got half price so they could realise the cost?
Off peak services are not subsidised by anyone, the bus company has to make a profit to survive and is not allowed to cross subsidise different routes, each route has to stand up commercially, if it doesn't it won't run unless deemed socially necessary, THEN it's subsidised, but councils dictate the frequency (eg 1 bus an hour through Ovingdean).
What do you mean by thought police? I simply found your remarks insulting and patronising. By the way, does someone who buys a day ticket abuse it if they then make loads of journeys, milking the system at the expense of the single journey people?
[quote][p][bold]pachallis[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]her professional[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]pachallis[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]ghost bus driver[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]NickBtn[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]brighton bluenose[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]NickBtn[/bold] wrote: The green council has some responsibility for this rise - so is Ms Lucas trying to deflect the blame? The greens have given more of the roads across to the effective monopoly of Brighton and Hove buses - yet without negotiation on prices etc. The bus company has repeatedly run rings around the council. Yes, the council has few powers directly on pricing but they do hold a number of strong cards particularly bus lanes As fuel prices are falling so should bus fares (as fuel increases were used as reason for previous rises). The council should allow bus lanes for all road users until prices fall. There is no way that our fares should be higher than London fares yet they are - this should be used as the benchmark - we should be at London minus 10 or 20%. Until we reach that level, bus lanes open to all. Bet the bus company could magically find savings with that kind of negotiating stance. So go on greens, fight for public transport! It's in your power (where nationalisation isn't). You can make a difference if you try....[/p][/quote]Perhaps you want to clarify why B&H bus fares should be your arbitrary 10 or 20% lower than London?![/p][/quote]Yes, 10 or 20% less is arbitrary and a good point to start negotiations. Why lower than London? Well wage costs, living costs, office/depot costs etc are all higher in London so you would expect the bus company to have higher costs there than in Brighton. How much would take research - but I'd bet more than 10-20% higher than costs here[/p][/quote]London fares are subsidised and set by TFL.£1.40 for Oyster (off peak). If you pay cash in London you pay £2.40 for whatever distance. Another reason why fuel price goes down and fares don't is because it's hedged, ie several years' worth bought in bulk for one price, protected for x amount of time from price rises, but unfortunately also protected from fuel price falls too. Trust me it sometimes embarasses me to charge £1.60 for a one stop hop and a few times I've just said take a seat.[/p][/quote]@ghost bus driver- thanks for this. I make frequent use of short hops (I like to walk to town, do my shopping, and then bus back) and was really annoyed that B&H buses had increased this by 13% from £1.60 to £1.80 - yet again way above other increases. As there was no reason given for the increase I asked them and Philip Cassinos of the B&H Buses Customer Services Team kindly sent me a response. It is too long to include in it's entirety but the key reasons given were: 1. Fuel is 20% of costs and they hedge prices (as you said) so I assume that as fuel prices have declined this will not be used as an excuse next time. 2. A government grant to bus operators (BSOG) of around 40p per litre of diesel is, apparently, being reduced, although I found no evidence of this on the government web site, and it appears B&H Buses did get over £2m last year. B&H Buses state this has actually increased their fuelprices by 20%. 3. The biggest cost is from paying staff and 'we are rightly expected to agree pay rises with them each year with the trade unions'. 4. There have also been increases in insurance, maintenance, utilities and 'taking cash to the bank'. Apparently cash fares are the most expensive to collect and they are encouraging customers to switch to m-ticket and saver so that drivers don't have to check balances at the end of the day and staff aren't needed to transfer it to banks. Unfortunately the only way to buy singles or short-hops is by cash. If only B&H Buses could provide technology to allow e-tickets for these. I suggested that, maybe, they start using credit card swipe - as I believe is being introduced by TFL. I'm not sure I believe all the details and have asked Philip to respond but I have had no reply so far. In particular I queried the number of buses running off peak that are nearly empty (maybe the service could be reduced during these times to save costs?) and how much revenue they get from concessionary fares -- especially with the 12/13 and 29 services seeming to be being run all day with grey-backs on day trips to Eastbourne or Tunbridge Wells for the day. It would be nice if Caroline could do more for residents by actually liaising with bus companies rather than just coming up with 'sound bites' such as she seems to have done. Considering the amount to money B&H city council gives B&H Buses in grants and in improving the infrastructure for them, it is surprising the council could not have negotiated a better deal for residents in return (perhaps by providing some value to us by freezing fares in this time of recession). Over to you HJarrs for some serious rotation?[/p][/quote]Reducing service levels off peak makes no sense - it would simply result in even less people travelling by bus due to the longer wait times, and a downward spiral would begin. The policy over the years of increasing frequencies to "turn up and go" levels has been highly successful, with the Bus Company turning round a steady decline into a year on year increase in the numbers travelling (against the national trend for several years incidentally). By the way, your unpleasant comments regarding "grey backs going for day trips" do you no favours. A lot of people over 65 are still income tax and council tax payers, and many of them are still working. Those who are just going for a day trip will probably be spending some money at their destination, helping the local economy. Please don't be so patronising.[/p][/quote]@her professional - running excessive numbers of off peak services just to make the service more attractive if it ends up costing us rates, taxes and increasing pollution is, IMHO, insane. Sure - have the frequency to deal with peak times to encourage people to avoid driving to and from work, but other times, as long as there is a regular punctual service then that is all that matters. Regarding 'grey backs' - I am one myself so feel I can use the term freely- if you don't like that - tough - I am proud to be a 'grey back' and will continue to use the term if I wish - Ms. Thought Policewoman! In a time of recession, savings have to be made. Concessionary bus fares (at 90p per tap) must cost the country a lot - if they weren't so lucrative for bus companies I imagine they would be reducing services themselves. Some 'grey backs' make really excessive, wasteful use of these facilities. I know for some people these free rides are a godsend, but others are just abusing the system - perhaps if 'grey backs' were given 2 free rides per day and above this they got half price so they could realise the cost?[/p][/quote]Off peak services are not subsidised by anyone, the bus company has to make a profit to survive and is not allowed to cross subsidise different routes, each route has to stand up commercially, if it doesn't it won't run unless deemed socially necessary, THEN it's subsidised, but councils dictate the frequency (eg 1 bus an hour through Ovingdean). What do you mean by thought police? I simply found your remarks insulting and patronising. By the way, does someone who buys a day ticket abuse it if they then make loads of journeys, milking the system at the expense of the single journey people? her professional
  • Score: -4

3:37am Fri 4 Apr 14

hammerking says...

Having come from london how can the bus people justify a increase in bus fares again-the green party dont help either,because they are a private company they are only intrested in profit and greed for themselves-they buy there fuel for the buses once a year so i am informed so why the increase then-i have not had a pay rise for 5 years now
Having come from london how can the bus people justify a increase in bus fares again-the green party dont help either,because they are a private company they are only intrested in profit and greed for themselves-they buy there fuel for the buses once a year so i am informed so why the increase then-i have not had a pay rise for 5 years now hammerking
  • Score: 2

8:35am Fri 4 Apr 14

pachallis says...

her professional wrote:
pachallis wrote:
her professional wrote:
pachallis wrote:
ghost bus driver wrote:
NickBtn wrote:
brighton bluenose wrote:
NickBtn wrote:
The green council has some responsibility for this rise - so is Ms Lucas trying to deflect the blame? The greens have given more of the roads across to the effective monopoly of Brighton and Hove buses - yet without negotiation on prices etc. The bus company has repeatedly run rings around the council. Yes, the council has few powers directly on pricing but they do hold a number of strong cards particularly bus lanes

As fuel prices are falling so should bus fares (as fuel increases were used as reason for previous rises). The council should allow bus lanes for all road users until prices fall. There is no way that our fares should be higher than London fares yet they are - this should be used as the benchmark - we should be at London minus 10 or 20%. Until we reach that level, bus lanes open to all. Bet the bus company could magically find savings with that kind of negotiating stance. So go on greens, fight for public transport! It's in your power (where nationalisation isn't). You can make a difference if you try....
Perhaps you want to clarify why B&H bus fares should be your arbitrary 10 or 20% lower than London?!
Yes, 10 or 20% less is arbitrary and a good point to start negotiations. Why lower than London? Well wage costs, living costs, office/depot costs etc are all higher in London so you would expect the bus company to have higher costs there than in Brighton. How much would take research - but I'd bet more than 10-20% higher than costs here
London fares are subsidised and set by TFL.£1.40 for Oyster (off peak). If you pay cash in London you pay £2.40 for whatever distance.

Another reason why fuel price goes down and fares don't is because it's hedged, ie several years' worth bought in bulk for one price, protected for x amount of time from price rises, but unfortunately also protected from fuel price falls too. Trust me it sometimes embarasses me to charge £1.60 for a one stop hop and a few times I've just said take a seat.
@ghost bus driver- thanks for this. I make frequent use of short hops (I like to walk to town, do my shopping, and then bus back) and was really annoyed that B&H buses had increased this by 13% from £1.60 to £1.80 - yet again way above other increases.

As there was no reason given for the increase I asked them and Philip Cassinos of the B&H Buses Customer Services Team kindly sent me a response. It is too long to include in it's entirety but the key reasons given were:

1. Fuel is 20% of costs and they hedge prices (as you said) so I assume that as fuel prices have declined this will not be used as an excuse next time.

2. A government grant to bus operators (BSOG) of around 40p per litre of diesel is, apparently, being reduced, although I found no evidence of this on the government web site, and it appears B&H Buses did get over £2m last year. B&H Buses state this has actually increased their fuelprices by 20%.

3. The biggest cost is from paying staff and 'we are rightly expected to agree pay rises with them each year with the trade unions'.

4. There have also been increases in insurance, maintenance, utilities and 'taking cash to the bank'.

Apparently cash fares are the most expensive to collect and they are encouraging customers to switch to m-ticket and saver so that drivers don't have to check balances at the end of the day and staff aren't needed to transfer it to banks.

Unfortunately the only way to buy singles or short-hops is by cash. If only B&H Buses could provide technology to allow e-tickets for these. I suggested that, maybe, they start using credit card swipe - as I believe is being introduced by TFL.

I'm not sure I believe all the details and have asked Philip to respond but I have had no reply so far. In particular I queried the number of buses running off peak that are nearly empty (maybe the service could be reduced during these times to save costs?) and how much revenue they get from concessionary fares -- especially with the 12/13 and 29 services seeming to be being run all day with grey-backs on day trips to Eastbourne or Tunbridge Wells for the day.

It would be nice if Caroline could do more for residents by actually liaising with bus companies rather than just coming up with 'sound bites' such as she seems to have done.

Considering the amount to money B&H city council gives B&H Buses in grants and in improving the infrastructure for them, it is surprising the council could not have negotiated a better deal for residents in return (perhaps by providing some value to us by freezing fares in this time of recession).

Over to you HJarrs for some serious rotation?
Reducing service levels off peak makes no sense - it would simply result in even less people travelling by bus due to the longer wait times, and a downward spiral would begin. The policy over the years of increasing frequencies to "turn up and go" levels has been highly successful, with the Bus Company turning round a steady decline into a year on year increase in the numbers travelling (against the national trend for several years incidentally).
By the way, your unpleasant comments regarding "grey backs going for day trips" do you no favours. A lot of people over 65 are still income tax and council tax payers, and many of them are still working. Those who are just going for a day trip will probably be spending some money at their destination, helping the local economy. Please don't be so patronising.
@her professional - running excessive numbers of off peak services just to make the service more attractive if it ends up costing us rates, taxes and increasing pollution is, IMHO, insane.

Sure - have the frequency to deal with peak times to encourage people to avoid driving to and from work, but other times, as long as there is a regular punctual service then that is all that matters.

Regarding 'grey backs' - I am one myself so feel I can use the term freely- if you don't like that - tough - I am proud to be a 'grey back' and will continue to use the term if I wish - Ms. Thought Policewoman!

In a time of recession, savings have to be made. Concessionary bus fares (at 90p per tap) must cost the country a lot - if they weren't so lucrative for bus companies I imagine they would be reducing services themselves.

Some 'grey backs' make really excessive, wasteful use of these facilities. I know for some people these free rides are a godsend, but others are just abusing the system - perhaps if 'grey backs' were given 2 free rides per day and above this they got half price so they could realise the cost?
Off peak services are not subsidised by anyone, the bus company has to make a profit to survive and is not allowed to cross subsidise different routes, each route has to stand up commercially, if it doesn't it won't run unless deemed socially necessary, THEN it's subsidised, but councils dictate the frequency (eg 1 bus an hour through Ovingdean).
What do you mean by thought police? I simply found your remarks insulting and patronising. By the way, does someone who buys a day ticket abuse it if they then make loads of journeys, milking the system at the expense of the single journey people?
@her professional - I meant the off peak services that are effectively subsidized by the 90p per tap that bus companies get every time a 'grey back' boards a bus.

How much revenue does B&H Buses get every year from concessionary bus tickets, and how much from fare paying passengers?

Yes - some off-peak services where there is insufficient business are subsidized directly by the council to the tune of £1.3m per year (as well as getting 90p per tap), and I would hope they do have a minimum service requirement from the council.

The difference with saver tickets is that a passenger still has to pay the £3.90 or more for it and every time the ticket is used it does not increase revenues to the bus company. The saving for a typical return journey is sufficient to make it worthwhile for passengers to use it. I assume B&H buses work out the cost of saver tickets to make a profit across all users.

With 'grey back' tickets the bus company gets 90p every time it is used even if they only go 1 stop - the more they are used, the more revenue B&H Buses get and the users have no idea of the cost in providing the service. It is not 'free'- it costs someone - probably me, through taxes - to provide it.

I actually long for the 'old days' when you paid according to the length of the journey - like is mostly done on trains. Short hop, city centre and single ticket try to provide this, but it appears B&H buses are trying to stop people using these by increasing cash fares - the good news is that they are, apparently, introducing a single m-ticket from 13th April and I've asked that they extend this to short hop as well.

BTW - my definition of 'thought police' - people who worry about terminology (and possibly lacking a sense of self-deprecating humour)...
[quote][p][bold]her professional[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]pachallis[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]her professional[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]pachallis[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]ghost bus driver[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]NickBtn[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]brighton bluenose[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]NickBtn[/bold] wrote: The green council has some responsibility for this rise - so is Ms Lucas trying to deflect the blame? The greens have given more of the roads across to the effective monopoly of Brighton and Hove buses - yet without negotiation on prices etc. The bus company has repeatedly run rings around the council. Yes, the council has few powers directly on pricing but they do hold a number of strong cards particularly bus lanes As fuel prices are falling so should bus fares (as fuel increases were used as reason for previous rises). The council should allow bus lanes for all road users until prices fall. There is no way that our fares should be higher than London fares yet they are - this should be used as the benchmark - we should be at London minus 10 or 20%. Until we reach that level, bus lanes open to all. Bet the bus company could magically find savings with that kind of negotiating stance. So go on greens, fight for public transport! It's in your power (where nationalisation isn't). You can make a difference if you try....[/p][/quote]Perhaps you want to clarify why B&H bus fares should be your arbitrary 10 or 20% lower than London?![/p][/quote]Yes, 10 or 20% less is arbitrary and a good point to start negotiations. Why lower than London? Well wage costs, living costs, office/depot costs etc are all higher in London so you would expect the bus company to have higher costs there than in Brighton. How much would take research - but I'd bet more than 10-20% higher than costs here[/p][/quote]London fares are subsidised and set by TFL.£1.40 for Oyster (off peak). If you pay cash in London you pay £2.40 for whatever distance. Another reason why fuel price goes down and fares don't is because it's hedged, ie several years' worth bought in bulk for one price, protected for x amount of time from price rises, but unfortunately also protected from fuel price falls too. Trust me it sometimes embarasses me to charge £1.60 for a one stop hop and a few times I've just said take a seat.[/p][/quote]@ghost bus driver- thanks for this. I make frequent use of short hops (I like to walk to town, do my shopping, and then bus back) and was really annoyed that B&H buses had increased this by 13% from £1.60 to £1.80 - yet again way above other increases. As there was no reason given for the increase I asked them and Philip Cassinos of the B&H Buses Customer Services Team kindly sent me a response. It is too long to include in it's entirety but the key reasons given were: 1. Fuel is 20% of costs and they hedge prices (as you said) so I assume that as fuel prices have declined this will not be used as an excuse next time. 2. A government grant to bus operators (BSOG) of around 40p per litre of diesel is, apparently, being reduced, although I found no evidence of this on the government web site, and it appears B&H Buses did get over £2m last year. B&H Buses state this has actually increased their fuelprices by 20%. 3. The biggest cost is from paying staff and 'we are rightly expected to agree pay rises with them each year with the trade unions'. 4. There have also been increases in insurance, maintenance, utilities and 'taking cash to the bank'. Apparently cash fares are the most expensive to collect and they are encouraging customers to switch to m-ticket and saver so that drivers don't have to check balances at the end of the day and staff aren't needed to transfer it to banks. Unfortunately the only way to buy singles or short-hops is by cash. If only B&H Buses could provide technology to allow e-tickets for these. I suggested that, maybe, they start using credit card swipe - as I believe is being introduced by TFL. I'm not sure I believe all the details and have asked Philip to respond but I have had no reply so far. In particular I queried the number of buses running off peak that are nearly empty (maybe the service could be reduced during these times to save costs?) and how much revenue they get from concessionary fares -- especially with the 12/13 and 29 services seeming to be being run all day with grey-backs on day trips to Eastbourne or Tunbridge Wells for the day. It would be nice if Caroline could do more for residents by actually liaising with bus companies rather than just coming up with 'sound bites' such as she seems to have done. Considering the amount to money B&H city council gives B&H Buses in grants and in improving the infrastructure for them, it is surprising the council could not have negotiated a better deal for residents in return (perhaps by providing some value to us by freezing fares in this time of recession). Over to you HJarrs for some serious rotation?[/p][/quote]Reducing service levels off peak makes no sense - it would simply result in even less people travelling by bus due to the longer wait times, and a downward spiral would begin. The policy over the years of increasing frequencies to "turn up and go" levels has been highly successful, with the Bus Company turning round a steady decline into a year on year increase in the numbers travelling (against the national trend for several years incidentally). By the way, your unpleasant comments regarding "grey backs going for day trips" do you no favours. A lot of people over 65 are still income tax and council tax payers, and many of them are still working. Those who are just going for a day trip will probably be spending some money at their destination, helping the local economy. Please don't be so patronising.[/p][/quote]@her professional - running excessive numbers of off peak services just to make the service more attractive if it ends up costing us rates, taxes and increasing pollution is, IMHO, insane. Sure - have the frequency to deal with peak times to encourage people to avoid driving to and from work, but other times, as long as there is a regular punctual service then that is all that matters. Regarding 'grey backs' - I am one myself so feel I can use the term freely- if you don't like that - tough - I am proud to be a 'grey back' and will continue to use the term if I wish - Ms. Thought Policewoman! In a time of recession, savings have to be made. Concessionary bus fares (at 90p per tap) must cost the country a lot - if they weren't so lucrative for bus companies I imagine they would be reducing services themselves. Some 'grey backs' make really excessive, wasteful use of these facilities. I know for some people these free rides are a godsend, but others are just abusing the system - perhaps if 'grey backs' were given 2 free rides per day and above this they got half price so they could realise the cost?[/p][/quote]Off peak services are not subsidised by anyone, the bus company has to make a profit to survive and is not allowed to cross subsidise different routes, each route has to stand up commercially, if it doesn't it won't run unless deemed socially necessary, THEN it's subsidised, but councils dictate the frequency (eg 1 bus an hour through Ovingdean). What do you mean by thought police? I simply found your remarks insulting and patronising. By the way, does someone who buys a day ticket abuse it if they then make loads of journeys, milking the system at the expense of the single journey people?[/p][/quote]@her professional - I meant the off peak services that are effectively subsidized by the 90p per tap that bus companies get every time a 'grey back' boards a bus. How much revenue does B&H Buses get every year from concessionary bus tickets, and how much from fare paying passengers? Yes - some off-peak services where there is insufficient business are subsidized directly by the council to the tune of £1.3m per year (as well as getting 90p per tap), and I would hope they do have a minimum service requirement from the council. The difference with saver tickets is that a passenger still has to pay the £3.90 or more for it and every time the ticket is used it does not increase revenues to the bus company. The saving for a typical return journey is sufficient to make it worthwhile for passengers to use it. I assume B&H buses work out the cost of saver tickets to make a profit across all users. With 'grey back' tickets the bus company gets 90p every time it is used even if they only go 1 stop - the more they are used, the more revenue B&H Buses get and the users have no idea of the cost in providing the service. It is not 'free'- it costs someone - probably me, through taxes - to provide it. I actually long for the 'old days' when you paid according to the length of the journey - like is mostly done on trains. Short hop, city centre and single ticket try to provide this, but it appears B&H buses are trying to stop people using these by increasing cash fares - the good news is that they are, apparently, introducing a single m-ticket from 13th April and I've asked that they extend this to short hop as well. BTW - my definition of 'thought police' - people who worry about terminology (and possibly lacking a sense of self-deprecating humour)... pachallis
  • Score: 2

2:21pm Fri 4 Apr 14

ThinkBrighton says...

Green_Girl_1990 wrote:
Richada wrote:
Green_Girl_1990 wrote:
Vote for the best! ALWAYS the best!

Vote Caroline Lucas! Vote Green Party!
Having been, presumably, born in 1990, luckily for you, you're far too young to remember how badly Britain ran under Nationalised industries in the 70's and 80's.

Can we have some more original trolling please? You used to be funny, now it's a cut and paste of the same comment.
Let me make something very, VERY clear to you.

Do you realise that we have already started campaigning on BOTH university campuses? I am a member of 'Green Students' and we are more than confident that Brighton students will be voting for the Green Party in abundance.

The fact of the matter is that at the next election, the Green Party will be returned to power in Brighton; rather than complaining like a little girl with a grazed knee, better for you that you just ACCEPT IT.
So it's the student population , who after they finish their studies move out of Brighton that we have got to blame for this awfull council.
I wonder if green hyphen girlhyphen 1990 is a no brainer or just a no brain, like the rest of her political friends because she does not or will not realise what harm is being done to our City by the green party and it's left wing and ant-semetic views
[quote][p][bold]Green_Girl_1990[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Richada[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Green_Girl_1990[/bold] wrote: Vote for the best! ALWAYS the best! Vote Caroline Lucas! Vote Green Party![/p][/quote]Having been, presumably, born in 1990, luckily for you, you're far too young to remember how badly Britain ran under Nationalised industries in the 70's and 80's. Can we have some more original trolling please? You used to be funny, now it's a cut and paste of the same comment.[/p][/quote]Let me make something very, VERY clear to you. Do you realise that we have already started campaigning on BOTH university campuses? I am a member of 'Green Students' and we are more than confident that Brighton students will be voting for the Green Party in abundance. The fact of the matter is that at the next election, the Green Party will be returned to power in Brighton; rather than complaining like a little girl with a grazed knee, better for you that you just ACCEPT IT.[/p][/quote]So it's the student population , who after they finish their studies move out of Brighton that we have got to blame for this awfull council. I wonder if green hyphen girlhyphen 1990 is a no brainer or just a no brain, like the rest of her political friends because she does not or will not realise what harm is being done to our City by the green party and it's left wing and ant-semetic views ThinkBrighton
  • Score: 5

6:24pm Fri 4 Apr 14

ARMANA says...

ThinkBrighton wrote:
Green_Girl_1990 wrote:
Richada wrote:
Green_Girl_1990 wrote:
Vote for the best! ALWAYS the best!

Vote Caroline Lucas! Vote Green Party!
Having been, presumably, born in 1990, luckily for you, you're far too young to remember how badly Britain ran under Nationalised industries in the 70's and 80's.

Can we have some more original trolling please? You used to be funny, now it's a cut and paste of the same comment.
Let me make something very, VERY clear to you.

Do you realise that we have already started campaigning on BOTH university campuses? I am a member of 'Green Students' and we are more than confident that Brighton students will be voting for the Green Party in abundance.

The fact of the matter is that at the next election, the Green Party will be returned to power in Brighton; rather than complaining like a little girl with a grazed knee, better for you that you just ACCEPT IT.
So it's the student population , who after they finish their studies move out of Brighton that we have got to blame for this awfull council.
I wonder if green hyphen girlhyphen 1990 is a no brainer or just a no brain, like the rest of her political friends because she does not or will not realise what harm is being done to our City by the green party and it's left wing and ant-semetic views
Thats why you must get up off the sofa & vote, don't forget to register, don't vote, don't moan, GREENS OUT,
[quote][p][bold]ThinkBrighton[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Green_Girl_1990[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Richada[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Green_Girl_1990[/bold] wrote: Vote for the best! ALWAYS the best! Vote Caroline Lucas! Vote Green Party![/p][/quote]Having been, presumably, born in 1990, luckily for you, you're far too young to remember how badly Britain ran under Nationalised industries in the 70's and 80's. Can we have some more original trolling please? You used to be funny, now it's a cut and paste of the same comment.[/p][/quote]Let me make something very, VERY clear to you. Do you realise that we have already started campaigning on BOTH university campuses? I am a member of 'Green Students' and we are more than confident that Brighton students will be voting for the Green Party in abundance. The fact of the matter is that at the next election, the Green Party will be returned to power in Brighton; rather than complaining like a little girl with a grazed knee, better for you that you just ACCEPT IT.[/p][/quote]So it's the student population , who after they finish their studies move out of Brighton that we have got to blame for this awfull council. I wonder if green hyphen girlhyphen 1990 is a no brainer or just a no brain, like the rest of her political friends because she does not or will not realise what harm is being done to our City by the green party and it's left wing and ant-semetic views[/p][/quote]Thats why you must get up off the sofa & vote, don't forget to register, don't vote, don't moan, GREENS OUT, ARMANA
  • Score: 5

9:21pm Fri 4 Apr 14

davyboy says...

Bill in Hanover wrote:
DC Brighton wrote:
Fares went up not that long ago so this seems cheeky at best BUT perhaps she ought to compare bus fares and parking charges before suddenly pretending to know or care anything about traffic in travelling in and around Brighton.
As Brighton pulls in more money from car parking than anywhere else in Britain outside of London perhaps they should subsidise bus fare, perhaps allowing free fares for schoolchildren. p.s. I have no school age children myself but their fares are ridiculously expensive.
Kids fares are not expensive if they have a bus I.d
[quote][p][bold]Bill in Hanover[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]DC Brighton[/bold] wrote: Fares went up not that long ago so this seems cheeky at best BUT perhaps she ought to compare bus fares and parking charges before suddenly pretending to know or care anything about traffic in travelling in and around Brighton.[/p][/quote]As Brighton pulls in more money from car parking than anywhere else in Britain outside of London perhaps they should subsidise bus fare, perhaps allowing free fares for schoolchildren. p.s. I have no school age children myself but their fares are ridiculously expensive.[/p][/quote]Kids fares are not expensive if they have a bus I.d davyboy
  • Score: 2

7:40pm Sun 6 Apr 14

Mr chock says...

her professional wrote:
jackthekipper wrote:
most expensive buses in the uk if not europe
Your evidence please
i am shocked that the bus company is putting up the prices again . i dont know what the price is they buy in there fuel but the big lemon bus company get the cooking oil from restaurants ETC and make diesel . Brighton bus company i know could not do that because they have invested heavily in Hybrid bus's .. maybe the future is TRAMS or trolley bus's ? or we could have a monorail ?
[quote][p][bold]her professional[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]jackthekipper[/bold] wrote: most expensive buses in the uk if not europe[/p][/quote]Your evidence please[/p][/quote]i am shocked that the bus company is putting up the prices again . i dont know what the price is they buy in there fuel but the big lemon bus company get the cooking oil from restaurants ETC and make diesel . Brighton bus company i know could not do that because they have invested heavily in Hybrid bus's .. maybe the future is TRAMS or trolley bus's ? or we could have a monorail ? Mr chock
  • Score: -1

12:37am Tue 8 Apr 14

ghost bus driver says...

Back in the early days of Southdown (the nationalised version that absorbed BHBCC's earlier incarnation, Brighton Hove & District) there were 3 fares, 2, 5 and 10p. But back then 10p was a much bigger deal than it was now. A fiver then was like £20 now.Much of the reason for bringing in fare-per -journey was that people avoided using the bus as they didn't know how much it was. Roger French then came up with the £1 anywhere fare which brought in a lot more of those people but then the controversy was why should I pay the same as someone going the whole route so in came the centre fare of 50p as it was back then, but the short hop was still a long way off.
Back in the early days of Southdown (the nationalised version that absorbed BHBCC's earlier incarnation, Brighton Hove & District) there were 3 fares, 2, 5 and 10p. But back then 10p was a much bigger deal than it was now. A fiver then was like £20 now.Much of the reason for bringing in fare-per -journey was that people avoided using the bus as they didn't know how much it was. Roger French then came up with the £1 anywhere fare which brought in a lot more of those people but then the controversy was why should I pay the same as someone going the whole route so in came the centre fare of 50p as it was back then, but the short hop was still a long way off. ghost bus driver
  • Score: 2

9:42am Tue 8 Apr 14

Michael Inkpin-Leissner says...

I appreciate very much the detailed information on possible reasons for the increase of some bus fares.
Having said that, I like to mention that during our door knocking sessions in the Ward of Hollingdean and Stanmer we receive feedback on the high single fares. Yes there are electronic means to get a cheaper fare, but unfortunately a vast amount of residents, especially elderly or unemployed do not have e.g. 17.50 cash for a weekly ticket, as they need to spend cash on food and basics. From this perspective I cannot agree with the rise of fares again.

Regarding Caroline Lucas, who is by the way a member of the Green Party as much as she tries to hide it and to distance herself from the Green Administration in Brighton and Hove, I find her statements rather pathetic, a useless statement again, just to have her picture in the Argus. I am wondering as we'll why the Argus seems to avoid connecting Caroline Lucas to the Green Party. Elections are coming up and friends in high places of the Argus for Caroline Lucas perhaps? The pro green statements here I find rather amusing. The only statements I get from residents of the ward Hollingdean and Stanmer is: Greens out. This is a fact.
Regarding bus fares I hope the council and the bus company start thinking how to keep bus trips affordable for people with low weekly income.

Michael N. Inkpin-Leissner
Labour council candidate in the ward Hollingdean and Stanmer, Brighton
I appreciate very much the detailed information on possible reasons for the increase of some bus fares. Having said that, I like to mention that during our door knocking sessions in the Ward of Hollingdean and Stanmer we receive feedback on the high single fares. Yes there are electronic means to get a cheaper fare, but unfortunately a vast amount of residents, especially elderly or unemployed do not have e.g. 17.50 cash for a weekly ticket, as they need to spend cash on food and basics. From this perspective I cannot agree with the rise of fares again. Regarding Caroline Lucas, who is by the way a member of the Green Party as much as she tries to hide it and to distance herself from the Green Administration in Brighton and Hove, I find her statements rather pathetic, a useless statement again, just to have her picture in the Argus. I am wondering as we'll why the Argus seems to avoid connecting Caroline Lucas to the Green Party. Elections are coming up and friends in high places of the Argus for Caroline Lucas perhaps? The pro green statements here I find rather amusing. The only statements I get from residents of the ward Hollingdean and Stanmer is: Greens out. This is a fact. Regarding bus fares I hope the council and the bus company start thinking how to keep bus trips affordable for people with low weekly income. Michael N. Inkpin-Leissner Labour council candidate in the ward Hollingdean and Stanmer, Brighton Michael Inkpin-Leissner
  • Score: 2

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