The Argus‘Bedroom tax’ costing council £450,000 a year (From The Argus)

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‘Bedroom tax’ costing Brighton and Hove City Council £450,000 a year

The Argus: ‘Bedroom tax’ costing council £450,000 a year ‘Bedroom tax’ costing council £450,000 a year

Controversial changes to housing benefits are costing Brighton and Hove City Council more than £450,000 a year while more families are falling into debt, it has been revealed.

The changes introduced in 2012, known as the “bedroom tax” or “spare room subsidy”, mean that anyone living in social housing who is receiving housing benefits will lose 14% of their payment if they have one spare bedroom or 25% if they have two or more spare rooms.

A total of 695 families are being impacted by the welfare reforms costing the council’s Housing Revenue Account £454,000 a year.


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And the number of these families now struggling to pay the bills has risen from 277 last year to 337.

Of those, 63 have debts totalling more than £500, up from 41 the year before.

A total of 177 families who weren’t in debt in April 2013 are also now in arrears.

Council figures show that 605 families are being penalised for having one spare room while 90 others are suffering the effects of having two extra spare rooms.

Costs rising The policy has been widely criticised by opponents.

Labour’s lead member for housing, Chaun Wilson, said: “The introduction of the bedroom tax has cost the council nearly half a million pounds at a time where our housing budget is under greater pressure than ever before.

“Rent arrears are becoming a significant issue for those on lower incomes, many who are seeing reductions in their incomes at a time when their livings costs are increasing.”

Garry Peltzer Dunn, housing spokesman for the Conservative group, said: “Since the spare room subsidy was abolished by the Government a year ago, over 250 council homes which were previously under-occupied have been freed up for local families to move into.

“This is exactly why the Government brought in the policy – to try to ease the chronic problem of high waiting lists and overcrowding in social housing.”

A council spokesman said the authority had worked hard to help struggling families and added schemes like the Mutual Exchange and Tenant Incentive Scheme had been successful in helping hundreds of families.

Comments (27)

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7:25am Fri 2 May 14

the red head says...

Let me just be very straight about this. The government gave council control over housing benefit and as a result, my council tax went from £0 to £108 a month. The council only told me earlier this year, so I presume I am in this statistic. The reason I pay so much? Because I still have the 16 hour a week job I have had for 8 years and although I am still earning well below the tax threshold, have two kids in full time education and receive full child tax credit because if my low earnings, the council considers I am only obliged to have a £3 reduction a week. I am now, because of this change not being notified to me within a reasonable amount of time, placed in iver £2k of debt. I have never been in debt... I don't earn enough to have debt so I manage my money carefully. The council have out me in poverty as I now have to pay that back out of my meagre monthly earnings,

But you know what? Give it to me in spades... You're not going to bring me down, regardless of how unfair, spiteful and degrading your staff make me feel, Brighton and hove council. I'm holding my head high and I will always do so. Brighton and hove councils advice? To send me to a crisis line for people who can't cope with their monthly bills. Stuff you. I am not a crisis case. I played by the rules and you changed them. Shame on you.
Let me just be very straight about this. The government gave council control over housing benefit and as a result, my council tax went from £0 to £108 a month. The council only told me earlier this year, so I presume I am in this statistic. The reason I pay so much? Because I still have the 16 hour a week job I have had for 8 years and although I am still earning well below the tax threshold, have two kids in full time education and receive full child tax credit because if my low earnings, the council considers I am only obliged to have a £3 reduction a week. I am now, because of this change not being notified to me within a reasonable amount of time, placed in iver £2k of debt. I have never been in debt... I don't earn enough to have debt so I manage my money carefully. The council have out me in poverty as I now have to pay that back out of my meagre monthly earnings, But you know what? Give it to me in spades... You're not going to bring me down, regardless of how unfair, spiteful and degrading your staff make me feel, Brighton and hove council. I'm holding my head high and I will always do so. Brighton and hove councils advice? To send me to a crisis line for people who can't cope with their monthly bills. Stuff you. I am not a crisis case. I played by the rules and you changed them. Shame on you. the red head
  • Score: 27

7:29am Fri 2 May 14

rogerthefish says...

But why should people have spare rooms, there are people arriving in this country with nowhere to stay but the streets...
But why should people have spare rooms, there are people arriving in this country with nowhere to stay but the streets... rogerthefish
  • Score: -23

8:36am Fri 2 May 14

HJarrs says...

the red head wrote:
Let me just be very straight about this. The government gave council control over housing benefit and as a result, my council tax went from £0 to £108 a month. The council only told me earlier this year, so I presume I am in this statistic. The reason I pay so much? Because I still have the 16 hour a week job I have had for 8 years and although I am still earning well below the tax threshold, have two kids in full time education and receive full child tax credit because if my low earnings, the council considers I am only obliged to have a £3 reduction a week. I am now, because of this change not being notified to me within a reasonable amount of time, placed in iver £2k of debt. I have never been in debt... I don't earn enough to have debt so I manage my money carefully. The council have out me in poverty as I now have to pay that back out of my meagre monthly earnings,

But you know what? Give it to me in spades... You're not going to bring me down, regardless of how unfair, spiteful and degrading your staff make me feel, Brighton and hove council. I'm holding my head high and I will always do so. Brighton and hove councils advice? To send me to a crisis line for people who can't cope with their monthly bills. Stuff you. I am not a crisis case. I played by the rules and you changed them. Shame on you.
The bedroom tax and cuts to benefits are purely down to the spiteful conservatives in the coalition. I hope you didn't vote for them.
[quote][p][bold]the red head[/bold] wrote: Let me just be very straight about this. The government gave council control over housing benefit and as a result, my council tax went from £0 to £108 a month. The council only told me earlier this year, so I presume I am in this statistic. The reason I pay so much? Because I still have the 16 hour a week job I have had for 8 years and although I am still earning well below the tax threshold, have two kids in full time education and receive full child tax credit because if my low earnings, the council considers I am only obliged to have a £3 reduction a week. I am now, because of this change not being notified to me within a reasonable amount of time, placed in iver £2k of debt. I have never been in debt... I don't earn enough to have debt so I manage my money carefully. The council have out me in poverty as I now have to pay that back out of my meagre monthly earnings, But you know what? Give it to me in spades... You're not going to bring me down, regardless of how unfair, spiteful and degrading your staff make me feel, Brighton and hove council. I'm holding my head high and I will always do so. Brighton and hove councils advice? To send me to a crisis line for people who can't cope with their monthly bills. Stuff you. I am not a crisis case. I played by the rules and you changed them. Shame on you.[/p][/quote]The bedroom tax and cuts to benefits are purely down to the spiteful conservatives in the coalition. I hope you didn't vote for them. HJarrs
  • Score: -3

8:38am Fri 2 May 14

Andy R says...

the red head wrote:
Let me just be very straight about this. The government gave council control over housing benefit and as a result, my council tax went from £0 to £108 a month. The council only told me earlier this year, so I presume I am in this statistic. The reason I pay so much? Because I still have the 16 hour a week job I have had for 8 years and although I am still earning well below the tax threshold, have two kids in full time education and receive full child tax credit because if my low earnings, the council considers I am only obliged to have a £3 reduction a week. I am now, because of this change not being notified to me within a reasonable amount of time, placed in iver £2k of debt. I have never been in debt... I don't earn enough to have debt so I manage my money carefully. The council have out me in poverty as I now have to pay that back out of my meagre monthly earnings,

But you know what? Give it to me in spades... You're not going to bring me down, regardless of how unfair, spiteful and degrading your staff make me feel, Brighton and hove council. I'm holding my head high and I will always do so. Brighton and hove councils advice? To send me to a crisis line for people who can't cope with their monthly bills. Stuff you. I am not a crisis case. I played by the rules and you changed them. Shame on you.
You mean the government gave councils control over council tax benefit. They haven't given them any control over housing benefit. Problem is, they cut the money previously spent on ctb by 10% at the same time, But they stipulated that pensioners should not be worse off under this change, which meant a cut of more like 17% for everyone else in Brighton and Hove. So people at the lowest end of the income scale - already penalised by a highly regressive tax - are now having to pay even more. It isn't personal - no-one working at the council suddenly decided they wanted to make your life miserable. The public schoolboys in the government did that when they decided that you - not they - were going to pay for their financial crisis.
[quote][p][bold]the red head[/bold] wrote: Let me just be very straight about this. The government gave council control over housing benefit and as a result, my council tax went from £0 to £108 a month. The council only told me earlier this year, so I presume I am in this statistic. The reason I pay so much? Because I still have the 16 hour a week job I have had for 8 years and although I am still earning well below the tax threshold, have two kids in full time education and receive full child tax credit because if my low earnings, the council considers I am only obliged to have a £3 reduction a week. I am now, because of this change not being notified to me within a reasonable amount of time, placed in iver £2k of debt. I have never been in debt... I don't earn enough to have debt so I manage my money carefully. The council have out me in poverty as I now have to pay that back out of my meagre monthly earnings, But you know what? Give it to me in spades... You're not going to bring me down, regardless of how unfair, spiteful and degrading your staff make me feel, Brighton and hove council. I'm holding my head high and I will always do so. Brighton and hove councils advice? To send me to a crisis line for people who can't cope with their monthly bills. Stuff you. I am not a crisis case. I played by the rules and you changed them. Shame on you.[/p][/quote]You mean the government gave councils control over council tax benefit. They haven't given them any control over housing benefit. Problem is, they cut the money previously spent on ctb by 10% at the same time, But they stipulated that pensioners should not be worse off under this change, which meant a cut of more like 17% for everyone else in Brighton and Hove. So people at the lowest end of the income scale - already penalised by a highly regressive tax - are now having to pay even more. It isn't personal - no-one working at the council suddenly decided they wanted to make your life miserable. The public schoolboys in the government did that when they decided that you - not they - were going to pay for their financial crisis. Andy R
  • Score: 18

8:47am Fri 2 May 14

rogerthefish says...

Andy R wrote:
the red head wrote:
Let me just be very straight about this. The government gave council control over housing benefit and as a result, my council tax went from £0 to £108 a month. The council only told me earlier this year, so I presume I am in this statistic. The reason I pay so much? Because I still have the 16 hour a week job I have had for 8 years and although I am still earning well below the tax threshold, have two kids in full time education and receive full child tax credit because if my low earnings, the council considers I am only obliged to have a £3 reduction a week. I am now, because of this change not being notified to me within a reasonable amount of time, placed in iver £2k of debt. I have never been in debt... I don't earn enough to have debt so I manage my money carefully. The council have out me in poverty as I now have to pay that back out of my meagre monthly earnings,

But you know what? Give it to me in spades... You're not going to bring me down, regardless of how unfair, spiteful and degrading your staff make me feel, Brighton and hove council. I'm holding my head high and I will always do so. Brighton and hove councils advice? To send me to a crisis line for people who can't cope with their monthly bills. Stuff you. I am not a crisis case. I played by the rules and you changed them. Shame on you.
You mean the government gave councils control over council tax benefit. They haven't given them any control over housing benefit. Problem is, they cut the money previously spent on ctb by 10% at the same time, But they stipulated that pensioners should not be worse off under this change, which meant a cut of more like 17% for everyone else in Brighton and Hove. So people at the lowest end of the income scale - already penalised by a highly regressive tax - are now having to pay even more. It isn't personal - no-one working at the council suddenly decided they wanted to make your life miserable. The public schoolboys in the government did that when they decided that you - not they - were going to pay for their financial crisis.
And who caused this financial crises?
[quote][p][bold]Andy R[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]the red head[/bold] wrote: Let me just be very straight about this. The government gave council control over housing benefit and as a result, my council tax went from £0 to £108 a month. The council only told me earlier this year, so I presume I am in this statistic. The reason I pay so much? Because I still have the 16 hour a week job I have had for 8 years and although I am still earning well below the tax threshold, have two kids in full time education and receive full child tax credit because if my low earnings, the council considers I am only obliged to have a £3 reduction a week. I am now, because of this change not being notified to me within a reasonable amount of time, placed in iver £2k of debt. I have never been in debt... I don't earn enough to have debt so I manage my money carefully. The council have out me in poverty as I now have to pay that back out of my meagre monthly earnings, But you know what? Give it to me in spades... You're not going to bring me down, regardless of how unfair, spiteful and degrading your staff make me feel, Brighton and hove council. I'm holding my head high and I will always do so. Brighton and hove councils advice? To send me to a crisis line for people who can't cope with their monthly bills. Stuff you. I am not a crisis case. I played by the rules and you changed them. Shame on you.[/p][/quote]You mean the government gave councils control over council tax benefit. They haven't given them any control over housing benefit. Problem is, they cut the money previously spent on ctb by 10% at the same time, But they stipulated that pensioners should not be worse off under this change, which meant a cut of more like 17% for everyone else in Brighton and Hove. So people at the lowest end of the income scale - already penalised by a highly regressive tax - are now having to pay even more. It isn't personal - no-one working at the council suddenly decided they wanted to make your life miserable. The public schoolboys in the government did that when they decided that you - not they - were going to pay for their financial crisis.[/p][/quote]And who caused this financial crises? rogerthefish
  • Score: 9

9:24am Fri 2 May 14

shining star says...

stop selling social housing stock. The worst crime against housing. If you can afford to buy then don't buy social housing, A lot of properties end up in the hands of Property Developers and then they are re-let back at several times more than the original rents. Stop this madness now of selling off precious housing stocks.
stop selling social housing stock. The worst crime against housing. If you can afford to buy then don't buy social housing, A lot of properties end up in the hands of Property Developers and then they are re-let back at several times more than the original rents. Stop this madness now of selling off precious housing stocks. shining star
  • Score: 40

9:40am Fri 2 May 14

Plantpot says...

HJarrs wrote:
the red head wrote:
Let me just be very straight about this. The government gave council control over housing benefit and as a result, my council tax went from £0 to £108 a month. The council only told me earlier this year, so I presume I am in this statistic. The reason I pay so much? Because I still have the 16 hour a week job I have had for 8 years and although I am still earning well below the tax threshold, have two kids in full time education and receive full child tax credit because if my low earnings, the council considers I am only obliged to have a £3 reduction a week. I am now, because of this change not being notified to me within a reasonable amount of time, placed in iver £2k of debt. I have never been in debt... I don't earn enough to have debt so I manage my money carefully. The council have out me in poverty as I now have to pay that back out of my meagre monthly earnings,

But you know what? Give it to me in spades... You're not going to bring me down, regardless of how unfair, spiteful and degrading your staff make me feel, Brighton and hove council. I'm holding my head high and I will always do so. Brighton and hove councils advice? To send me to a crisis line for people who can't cope with their monthly bills. Stuff you. I am not a crisis case. I played by the rules and you changed them. Shame on you.
The bedroom tax and cuts to benefits are purely down to the spiteful conservatives in the coalition. I hope you didn't vote for them.
Social housing should be reserved for the genuinely needy and vulnerable. Anyone that can afford to live outside of the public sector should do so.

5000 people earning £100k+/year live in council accommodation, which is nonsense. Included in the list was that late, great, socialist Bob Crow.

Benefit cuts should be made so that the least possible amount of money is spent on those receiving them. Living on benefits should be tough in order to shape society so that people look at getting work as a first resort, even if that means moving. An absolutely enormous sum goes on welfare in this country.
[quote][p][bold]HJarrs[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]the red head[/bold] wrote: Let me just be very straight about this. The government gave council control over housing benefit and as a result, my council tax went from £0 to £108 a month. The council only told me earlier this year, so I presume I am in this statistic. The reason I pay so much? Because I still have the 16 hour a week job I have had for 8 years and although I am still earning well below the tax threshold, have two kids in full time education and receive full child tax credit because if my low earnings, the council considers I am only obliged to have a £3 reduction a week. I am now, because of this change not being notified to me within a reasonable amount of time, placed in iver £2k of debt. I have never been in debt... I don't earn enough to have debt so I manage my money carefully. The council have out me in poverty as I now have to pay that back out of my meagre monthly earnings, But you know what? Give it to me in spades... You're not going to bring me down, regardless of how unfair, spiteful and degrading your staff make me feel, Brighton and hove council. I'm holding my head high and I will always do so. Brighton and hove councils advice? To send me to a crisis line for people who can't cope with their monthly bills. Stuff you. I am not a crisis case. I played by the rules and you changed them. Shame on you.[/p][/quote]The bedroom tax and cuts to benefits are purely down to the spiteful conservatives in the coalition. I hope you didn't vote for them.[/p][/quote]Social housing should be reserved for the genuinely needy and vulnerable. Anyone that can afford to live outside of the public sector should do so. 5000 people earning £100k+/year live in council accommodation, which is nonsense. Included in the list was that late, great, socialist Bob Crow. Benefit cuts should be made so that the least possible amount of money is spent on those receiving them. Living on benefits should be tough in order to shape society so that people look at getting work as a first resort, even if that means moving. An absolutely enormous sum goes on welfare in this country. Plantpot
  • Score: 13

9:42am Fri 2 May 14

Andy R says...

rogerthefish wrote:
Andy R wrote:
the red head wrote:
Let me just be very straight about this. The government gave council control over housing benefit and as a result, my council tax went from £0 to £108 a month. The council only told me earlier this year, so I presume I am in this statistic. The reason I pay so much? Because I still have the 16 hour a week job I have had for 8 years and although I am still earning well below the tax threshold, have two kids in full time education and receive full child tax credit because if my low earnings, the council considers I am only obliged to have a £3 reduction a week. I am now, because of this change not being notified to me within a reasonable amount of time, placed in iver £2k of debt. I have never been in debt... I don't earn enough to have debt so I manage my money carefully. The council have out me in poverty as I now have to pay that back out of my meagre monthly earnings,

But you know what? Give it to me in spades... You're not going to bring me down, regardless of how unfair, spiteful and degrading your staff make me feel, Brighton and hove council. I'm holding my head high and I will always do so. Brighton and hove councils advice? To send me to a crisis line for people who can't cope with their monthly bills. Stuff you. I am not a crisis case. I played by the rules and you changed them. Shame on you.
You mean the government gave councils control over council tax benefit. They haven't given them any control over housing benefit. Problem is, they cut the money previously spent on ctb by 10% at the same time, But they stipulated that pensioners should not be worse off under this change, which meant a cut of more like 17% for everyone else in Brighton and Hove. So people at the lowest end of the income scale - already penalised by a highly regressive tax - are now having to pay even more. It isn't personal - no-one working at the council suddenly decided they wanted to make your life miserable. The public schoolboys in the government did that when they decided that you - not they - were going to pay for their financial crisis.
And who caused this financial crises?
The financial institutions with toxic lending, speculation and bonuses. Somehow loads of people have allowed themselves to be convinced that a crisis of finance capital is actually all about some "profligate" public sector. When people wake up and recognise this for the utter BS it is, we might then have a chance of turning the tide.
[quote][p][bold]rogerthefish[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Andy R[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]the red head[/bold] wrote: Let me just be very straight about this. The government gave council control over housing benefit and as a result, my council tax went from £0 to £108 a month. The council only told me earlier this year, so I presume I am in this statistic. The reason I pay so much? Because I still have the 16 hour a week job I have had for 8 years and although I am still earning well below the tax threshold, have two kids in full time education and receive full child tax credit because if my low earnings, the council considers I am only obliged to have a £3 reduction a week. I am now, because of this change not being notified to me within a reasonable amount of time, placed in iver £2k of debt. I have never been in debt... I don't earn enough to have debt so I manage my money carefully. The council have out me in poverty as I now have to pay that back out of my meagre monthly earnings, But you know what? Give it to me in spades... You're not going to bring me down, regardless of how unfair, spiteful and degrading your staff make me feel, Brighton and hove council. I'm holding my head high and I will always do so. Brighton and hove councils advice? To send me to a crisis line for people who can't cope with their monthly bills. Stuff you. I am not a crisis case. I played by the rules and you changed them. Shame on you.[/p][/quote]You mean the government gave councils control over council tax benefit. They haven't given them any control over housing benefit. Problem is, they cut the money previously spent on ctb by 10% at the same time, But they stipulated that pensioners should not be worse off under this change, which meant a cut of more like 17% for everyone else in Brighton and Hove. So people at the lowest end of the income scale - already penalised by a highly regressive tax - are now having to pay even more. It isn't personal - no-one working at the council suddenly decided they wanted to make your life miserable. The public schoolboys in the government did that when they decided that you - not they - were going to pay for their financial crisis.[/p][/quote]And who caused this financial crises?[/p][/quote]The financial institutions with toxic lending, speculation and bonuses. Somehow loads of people have allowed themselves to be convinced that a crisis of finance capital is actually all about some "profligate" public sector. When people wake up and recognise this for the utter BS it is, we might then have a chance of turning the tide. Andy R
  • Score: 6

10:04am Fri 2 May 14

Vigilia says...

Still a drop in the ocean compared to what they spend on travellers.
Still a drop in the ocean compared to what they spend on travellers. Vigilia
  • Score: 21

10:15am Fri 2 May 14

Quiterie says...

Andy R wrote:
rogerthefish wrote:
Andy R wrote:
the red head wrote:
Let me just be very straight about this. The government gave council control over housing benefit and as a result, my council tax went from £0 to £108 a month. The council only told me earlier this year, so I presume I am in this statistic. The reason I pay so much? Because I still have the 16 hour a week job I have had for 8 years and although I am still earning well below the tax threshold, have two kids in full time education and receive full child tax credit because if my low earnings, the council considers I am only obliged to have a £3 reduction a week. I am now, because of this change not being notified to me within a reasonable amount of time, placed in iver £2k of debt. I have never been in debt... I don't earn enough to have debt so I manage my money carefully. The council have out me in poverty as I now have to pay that back out of my meagre monthly earnings,

But you know what? Give it to me in spades... You're not going to bring me down, regardless of how unfair, spiteful and degrading your staff make me feel, Brighton and hove council. I'm holding my head high and I will always do so. Brighton and hove councils advice? To send me to a crisis line for people who can't cope with their monthly bills. Stuff you. I am not a crisis case. I played by the rules and you changed them. Shame on you.
You mean the government gave councils control over council tax benefit. They haven't given them any control over housing benefit. Problem is, they cut the money previously spent on ctb by 10% at the same time, But they stipulated that pensioners should not be worse off under this change, which meant a cut of more like 17% for everyone else in Brighton and Hove. So people at the lowest end of the income scale - already penalised by a highly regressive tax - are now having to pay even more. It isn't personal - no-one working at the council suddenly decided they wanted to make your life miserable. The public schoolboys in the government did that when they decided that you - not they - were going to pay for their financial crisis.
And who caused this financial crises?
The financial institutions with toxic lending, speculation and bonuses. Somehow loads of people have allowed themselves to be convinced that a crisis of finance capital is actually all about some "profligate" public sector. When people wake up and recognise this for the utter BS it is, we might then have a chance of turning the tide.
So what is causing the National Debt to continue to spiral, month after month, even after the financial crisis is apparently over?
[quote][p][bold]Andy R[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]rogerthefish[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Andy R[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]the red head[/bold] wrote: Let me just be very straight about this. The government gave council control over housing benefit and as a result, my council tax went from £0 to £108 a month. The council only told me earlier this year, so I presume I am in this statistic. The reason I pay so much? Because I still have the 16 hour a week job I have had for 8 years and although I am still earning well below the tax threshold, have two kids in full time education and receive full child tax credit because if my low earnings, the council considers I am only obliged to have a £3 reduction a week. I am now, because of this change not being notified to me within a reasonable amount of time, placed in iver £2k of debt. I have never been in debt... I don't earn enough to have debt so I manage my money carefully. The council have out me in poverty as I now have to pay that back out of my meagre monthly earnings, But you know what? Give it to me in spades... You're not going to bring me down, regardless of how unfair, spiteful and degrading your staff make me feel, Brighton and hove council. I'm holding my head high and I will always do so. Brighton and hove councils advice? To send me to a crisis line for people who can't cope with their monthly bills. Stuff you. I am not a crisis case. I played by the rules and you changed them. Shame on you.[/p][/quote]You mean the government gave councils control over council tax benefit. They haven't given them any control over housing benefit. Problem is, they cut the money previously spent on ctb by 10% at the same time, But they stipulated that pensioners should not be worse off under this change, which meant a cut of more like 17% for everyone else in Brighton and Hove. So people at the lowest end of the income scale - already penalised by a highly regressive tax - are now having to pay even more. It isn't personal - no-one working at the council suddenly decided they wanted to make your life miserable. The public schoolboys in the government did that when they decided that you - not they - were going to pay for their financial crisis.[/p][/quote]And who caused this financial crises?[/p][/quote]The financial institutions with toxic lending, speculation and bonuses. Somehow loads of people have allowed themselves to be convinced that a crisis of finance capital is actually all about some "profligate" public sector. When people wake up and recognise this for the utter BS it is, we might then have a chance of turning the tide.[/p][/quote]So what is causing the National Debt to continue to spiral, month after month, even after the financial crisis is apparently over? Quiterie
  • Score: 4

10:29am Fri 2 May 14

BlackRocker says...

The photograph at the head of this article is short by £449,994.Get it right, Argus!
The photograph at the head of this article is short by £449,994.Get it right, Argus! BlackRocker
  • Score: 3

10:30am Fri 2 May 14

Andy R says...

Plantpot wrote:
HJarrs wrote:
the red head wrote:
Let me just be very straight about this. The government gave council control over housing benefit and as a result, my council tax went from £0 to £108 a month. The council only told me earlier this year, so I presume I am in this statistic. The reason I pay so much? Because I still have the 16 hour a week job I have had for 8 years and although I am still earning well below the tax threshold, have two kids in full time education and receive full child tax credit because if my low earnings, the council considers I am only obliged to have a £3 reduction a week. I am now, because of this change not being notified to me within a reasonable amount of time, placed in iver £2k of debt. I have never been in debt... I don't earn enough to have debt so I manage my money carefully. The council have out me in poverty as I now have to pay that back out of my meagre monthly earnings,

But you know what? Give it to me in spades... You're not going to bring me down, regardless of how unfair, spiteful and degrading your staff make me feel, Brighton and hove council. I'm holding my head high and I will always do so. Brighton and hove councils advice? To send me to a crisis line for people who can't cope with their monthly bills. Stuff you. I am not a crisis case. I played by the rules and you changed them. Shame on you.
The bedroom tax and cuts to benefits are purely down to the spiteful conservatives in the coalition. I hope you didn't vote for them.
Social housing should be reserved for the genuinely needy and vulnerable. Anyone that can afford to live outside of the public sector should do so.

5000 people earning £100k+/year live in council accommodation, which is nonsense. Included in the list was that late, great, socialist Bob Crow.

Benefit cuts should be made so that the least possible amount of money is spent on those receiving them. Living on benefits should be tough in order to shape society so that people look at getting work as a first resort, even if that means moving. An absolutely enormous sum goes on welfare in this country.
All absolute rubbish from beginning to end. It was never the aim of social housing that only the "genuinely needy and vulnerable" should be able to access it. This is simply a narrative dreamt up by the supporters of the selling off of council houses to cover their tracks. Now that there are comparatively few council houses as a result of decades of asset-stripping, we have to be persuaded that it is some kind of "special" housing of last resort. The people who peddle this line are the same people who want us to believe that the whole housing crisis is down to Bob Crow being a council tenant! Council housing was designed to provided decent affordable housing to working people, the cost of which would not take more than half of their earnings (as is the reality now). The advocates of social housing only for people on their absolute uppers want to create ghettoes. Well, you can **** off.

"Absolutely enormous sums" are NOT spent on "welfare" either. We have virtually the least generous benefits in the industrialised world, 42% of the welfare budget goes on pensions and just 3% of it on jobseekers allowance. Much of the rest of it goes to people in work, because of sky-high rents and basement-level wages. The whole welfare budget averages about 11% of GDP per year.

Don't believe the propaganda.
[quote][p][bold]Plantpot[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]HJarrs[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]the red head[/bold] wrote: Let me just be very straight about this. The government gave council control over housing benefit and as a result, my council tax went from £0 to £108 a month. The council only told me earlier this year, so I presume I am in this statistic. The reason I pay so much? Because I still have the 16 hour a week job I have had for 8 years and although I am still earning well below the tax threshold, have two kids in full time education and receive full child tax credit because if my low earnings, the council considers I am only obliged to have a £3 reduction a week. I am now, because of this change not being notified to me within a reasonable amount of time, placed in iver £2k of debt. I have never been in debt... I don't earn enough to have debt so I manage my money carefully. The council have out me in poverty as I now have to pay that back out of my meagre monthly earnings, But you know what? Give it to me in spades... You're not going to bring me down, regardless of how unfair, spiteful and degrading your staff make me feel, Brighton and hove council. I'm holding my head high and I will always do so. Brighton and hove councils advice? To send me to a crisis line for people who can't cope with their monthly bills. Stuff you. I am not a crisis case. I played by the rules and you changed them. Shame on you.[/p][/quote]The bedroom tax and cuts to benefits are purely down to the spiteful conservatives in the coalition. I hope you didn't vote for them.[/p][/quote]Social housing should be reserved for the genuinely needy and vulnerable. Anyone that can afford to live outside of the public sector should do so. 5000 people earning £100k+/year live in council accommodation, which is nonsense. Included in the list was that late, great, socialist Bob Crow. Benefit cuts should be made so that the least possible amount of money is spent on those receiving them. Living on benefits should be tough in order to shape society so that people look at getting work as a first resort, even if that means moving. An absolutely enormous sum goes on welfare in this country.[/p][/quote]All absolute rubbish from beginning to end. It was never the aim of social housing that only the "genuinely needy and vulnerable" should be able to access it. This is simply a narrative dreamt up by the supporters of the selling off of council houses to cover their tracks. Now that there are comparatively few council houses as a result of decades of asset-stripping, we have to be persuaded that it is some kind of "special" housing of last resort. The people who peddle this line are the same people who want us to believe that the whole housing crisis is down to Bob Crow being a council tenant! Council housing was designed to provided decent affordable housing to working people, the cost of which would not take more than half of their earnings (as is the reality now). The advocates of social housing only for people on their absolute uppers want to create ghettoes. Well, you can **** off. "Absolutely enormous sums" are NOT spent on "welfare" either. We have virtually the least generous benefits in the industrialised world, 42% of the welfare budget goes on pensions and just 3% of it on jobseekers allowance. Much of the rest of it goes to people in work, because of sky-high rents and basement-level wages. The whole welfare budget averages about 11% of GDP per year. Don't believe the propaganda. Andy R
  • Score: 21

11:07am Fri 2 May 14

fredaj says...

HJarrs wrote:
the red head wrote:
Let me just be very straight about this. The government gave council control over housing benefit and as a result, my council tax went from £0 to £108 a month. The council only told me earlier this year, so I presume I am in this statistic. The reason I pay so much? Because I still have the 16 hour a week job I have had for 8 years and although I am still earning well below the tax threshold, have two kids in full time education and receive full child tax credit because if my low earnings, the council considers I am only obliged to have a £3 reduction a week. I am now, because of this change not being notified to me within a reasonable amount of time, placed in iver £2k of debt. I have never been in debt... I don't earn enough to have debt so I manage my money carefully. The council have out me in poverty as I now have to pay that back out of my meagre monthly earnings,

But you know what? Give it to me in spades... You're not going to bring me down, regardless of how unfair, spiteful and degrading your staff make me feel, Brighton and hove council. I'm holding my head high and I will always do so. Brighton and hove councils advice? To send me to a crisis line for people who can't cope with their monthly bills. Stuff you. I am not a crisis case. I played by the rules and you changed them. Shame on you.
The bedroom tax and cuts to benefits are purely down to the spiteful conservatives in the coalition. I hope you didn't vote for them.
Anyone who spouts that governments of any political persuasion do stuff just to be "spiteful" is either stupid or thinks their audience is stupid.

Which is it with you?
[quote][p][bold]HJarrs[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]the red head[/bold] wrote: Let me just be very straight about this. The government gave council control over housing benefit and as a result, my council tax went from £0 to £108 a month. The council only told me earlier this year, so I presume I am in this statistic. The reason I pay so much? Because I still have the 16 hour a week job I have had for 8 years and although I am still earning well below the tax threshold, have two kids in full time education and receive full child tax credit because if my low earnings, the council considers I am only obliged to have a £3 reduction a week. I am now, because of this change not being notified to me within a reasonable amount of time, placed in iver £2k of debt. I have never been in debt... I don't earn enough to have debt so I manage my money carefully. The council have out me in poverty as I now have to pay that back out of my meagre monthly earnings, But you know what? Give it to me in spades... You're not going to bring me down, regardless of how unfair, spiteful and degrading your staff make me feel, Brighton and hove council. I'm holding my head high and I will always do so. Brighton and hove councils advice? To send me to a crisis line for people who can't cope with their monthly bills. Stuff you. I am not a crisis case. I played by the rules and you changed them. Shame on you.[/p][/quote]The bedroom tax and cuts to benefits are purely down to the spiteful conservatives in the coalition. I hope you didn't vote for them.[/p][/quote]Anyone who spouts that governments of any political persuasion do stuff just to be "spiteful" is either stupid or thinks their audience is stupid. Which is it with you? fredaj
  • Score: 0

11:30am Fri 2 May 14

TIMBURRY says...

And how much is spent each on the March For England
And how much is spent each on the March For England TIMBURRY
  • Score: -4

11:39am Fri 2 May 14

PorkyChopper says...

Plantpot wrote:
HJarrs wrote:
the red head wrote:
Let me just be very straight about this. The government gave council control over housing benefit and as a result, my council tax went from £0 to £108 a month. The council only told me earlier this year, so I presume I am in this statistic. The reason I pay so much? Because I still have the 16 hour a week job I have had for 8 years and although I am still earning well below the tax threshold, have two kids in full time education and receive full child tax credit because if my low earnings, the council considers I am only obliged to have a £3 reduction a week. I am now, because of this change not being notified to me within a reasonable amount of time, placed in iver £2k of debt. I have never been in debt... I don't earn enough to have debt so I manage my money carefully. The council have out me in poverty as I now have to pay that back out of my meagre monthly earnings,

But you know what? Give it to me in spades... You're not going to bring me down, regardless of how unfair, spiteful and degrading your staff make me feel, Brighton and hove council. I'm holding my head high and I will always do so. Brighton and hove councils advice? To send me to a crisis line for people who can't cope with their monthly bills. Stuff you. I am not a crisis case. I played by the rules and you changed them. Shame on you.
The bedroom tax and cuts to benefits are purely down to the spiteful conservatives in the coalition. I hope you didn't vote for them.
Social housing should be reserved for the genuinely needy and vulnerable. Anyone that can afford to live outside of the public sector should do so.

5000 people earning £100k+/year live in council accommodation, which is nonsense. Included in the list was that late, great, socialist Bob Crow.

Benefit cuts should be made so that the least possible amount of money is spent on those receiving them. Living on benefits should be tough in order to shape society so that people look at getting work as a first resort, even if that means moving. An absolutely enormous sum goes on welfare in this country.
True, but it's a pittance compared to the money that is paid to the banksters for loans that they made to the government, from money that was paid out from the taxpayer to bail them out.
[quote][p][bold]Plantpot[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]HJarrs[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]the red head[/bold] wrote: Let me just be very straight about this. The government gave council control over housing benefit and as a result, my council tax went from £0 to £108 a month. The council only told me earlier this year, so I presume I am in this statistic. The reason I pay so much? Because I still have the 16 hour a week job I have had for 8 years and although I am still earning well below the tax threshold, have two kids in full time education and receive full child tax credit because if my low earnings, the council considers I am only obliged to have a £3 reduction a week. I am now, because of this change not being notified to me within a reasonable amount of time, placed in iver £2k of debt. I have never been in debt... I don't earn enough to have debt so I manage my money carefully. The council have out me in poverty as I now have to pay that back out of my meagre monthly earnings, But you know what? Give it to me in spades... You're not going to bring me down, regardless of how unfair, spiteful and degrading your staff make me feel, Brighton and hove council. I'm holding my head high and I will always do so. Brighton and hove councils advice? To send me to a crisis line for people who can't cope with their monthly bills. Stuff you. I am not a crisis case. I played by the rules and you changed them. Shame on you.[/p][/quote]The bedroom tax and cuts to benefits are purely down to the spiteful conservatives in the coalition. I hope you didn't vote for them.[/p][/quote]Social housing should be reserved for the genuinely needy and vulnerable. Anyone that can afford to live outside of the public sector should do so. 5000 people earning £100k+/year live in council accommodation, which is nonsense. Included in the list was that late, great, socialist Bob Crow. Benefit cuts should be made so that the least possible amount of money is spent on those receiving them. Living on benefits should be tough in order to shape society so that people look at getting work as a first resort, even if that means moving. An absolutely enormous sum goes on welfare in this country.[/p][/quote]True, but it's a pittance compared to the money that is paid to the banksters for loans that they made to the government, from money that was paid out from the taxpayer to bail them out. PorkyChopper
  • Score: 12

11:45am Fri 2 May 14

PorkyChopper says...

fredaj wrote:
HJarrs wrote:
the red head wrote:
Let me just be very straight about this. The government gave council control over housing benefit and as a result, my council tax went from £0 to £108 a month. The council only told me earlier this year, so I presume I am in this statistic. The reason I pay so much? Because I still have the 16 hour a week job I have had for 8 years and although I am still earning well below the tax threshold, have two kids in full time education and receive full child tax credit because if my low earnings, the council considers I am only obliged to have a £3 reduction a week. I am now, because of this change not being notified to me within a reasonable amount of time, placed in iver £2k of debt. I have never been in debt... I don't earn enough to have debt so I manage my money carefully. The council have out me in poverty as I now have to pay that back out of my meagre monthly earnings,

But you know what? Give it to me in spades... You're not going to bring me down, regardless of how unfair, spiteful and degrading your staff make me feel, Brighton and hove council. I'm holding my head high and I will always do so. Brighton and hove councils advice? To send me to a crisis line for people who can't cope with their monthly bills. Stuff you. I am not a crisis case. I played by the rules and you changed them. Shame on you.
The bedroom tax and cuts to benefits are purely down to the spiteful conservatives in the coalition. I hope you didn't vote for them.
Anyone who spouts that governments of any political persuasion do stuff just to be "spiteful" is either stupid or thinks their audience is stupid.

Which is it with you?
Really?

"The huge increases in migrants over the last decade were partly due to a politically motivated attempt by ministers to radically change the country and "rub the Right's nose in diversity", according to Andrew Neather, a former adviser to Tony Blair, Jack Straw and David Blunkett."
[quote][p][bold]fredaj[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]HJarrs[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]the red head[/bold] wrote: Let me just be very straight about this. The government gave council control over housing benefit and as a result, my council tax went from £0 to £108 a month. The council only told me earlier this year, so I presume I am in this statistic. The reason I pay so much? Because I still have the 16 hour a week job I have had for 8 years and although I am still earning well below the tax threshold, have two kids in full time education and receive full child tax credit because if my low earnings, the council considers I am only obliged to have a £3 reduction a week. I am now, because of this change not being notified to me within a reasonable amount of time, placed in iver £2k of debt. I have never been in debt... I don't earn enough to have debt so I manage my money carefully. The council have out me in poverty as I now have to pay that back out of my meagre monthly earnings, But you know what? Give it to me in spades... You're not going to bring me down, regardless of how unfair, spiteful and degrading your staff make me feel, Brighton and hove council. I'm holding my head high and I will always do so. Brighton and hove councils advice? To send me to a crisis line for people who can't cope with their monthly bills. Stuff you. I am not a crisis case. I played by the rules and you changed them. Shame on you.[/p][/quote]The bedroom tax and cuts to benefits are purely down to the spiteful conservatives in the coalition. I hope you didn't vote for them.[/p][/quote]Anyone who spouts that governments of any political persuasion do stuff just to be "spiteful" is either stupid or thinks their audience is stupid. Which is it with you?[/p][/quote]Really? "The huge increases in migrants over the last decade were partly due to a politically motivated attempt by ministers to radically change the country and "rub the Right's nose in diversity", according to Andrew Neather, a former adviser to Tony Blair, Jack Straw and David Blunkett." PorkyChopper
  • Score: 5

11:50am Fri 2 May 14

fredaj says...

Andy R wrote:
rogerthefish wrote:
Andy R wrote:
the red head wrote:
Let me just be very straight about this. The government gave council control over housing benefit and as a result, my council tax went from £0 to £108 a month. The council only told me earlier this year, so I presume I am in this statistic. The reason I pay so much? Because I still have the 16 hour a week job I have had for 8 years and although I am still earning well below the tax threshold, have two kids in full time education and receive full child tax credit because if my low earnings, the council considers I am only obliged to have a £3 reduction a week. I am now, because of this change not being notified to me within a reasonable amount of time, placed in iver £2k of debt. I have never been in debt... I don't earn enough to have debt so I manage my money carefully. The council have out me in poverty as I now have to pay that back out of my meagre monthly earnings,

But you know what? Give it to me in spades... You're not going to bring me down, regardless of how unfair, spiteful and degrading your staff make me feel, Brighton and hove council. I'm holding my head high and I will always do so. Brighton and hove councils advice? To send me to a crisis line for people who can't cope with their monthly bills. Stuff you. I am not a crisis case. I played by the rules and you changed them. Shame on you.
You mean the government gave councils control over council tax benefit. They haven't given them any control over housing benefit. Problem is, they cut the money previously spent on ctb by 10% at the same time, But they stipulated that pensioners should not be worse off under this change, which meant a cut of more like 17% for everyone else in Brighton and Hove. So people at the lowest end of the income scale - already penalised by a highly regressive tax - are now having to pay even more. It isn't personal - no-one working at the council suddenly decided they wanted to make your life miserable. The public schoolboys in the government did that when they decided that you - not they - were going to pay for their financial crisis.
And who caused this financial crises?
The financial institutions with toxic lending, speculation and bonuses. Somehow loads of people have allowed themselves to be convinced that a crisis of finance capital is actually all about some "profligate" public sector. When people wake up and recognise this for the utter BS it is, we might then have a chance of turning the tide.
"Loads of people" do not blame the public sector - they blame government.

As a consequence of the previous government's mismanagement and spend-thrift ways the cost of the public sector is now having to be tightly controlled but that is neither because they are being blamed or because anyone is being spiteful, nor is a personal attack on any individual or group of individuals.

Will you ever "wake up"? Or will you simply continue to see complex issues in terms of black and white political dogma?
[quote][p][bold]Andy R[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]rogerthefish[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Andy R[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]the red head[/bold] wrote: Let me just be very straight about this. The government gave council control over housing benefit and as a result, my council tax went from £0 to £108 a month. The council only told me earlier this year, so I presume I am in this statistic. The reason I pay so much? Because I still have the 16 hour a week job I have had for 8 years and although I am still earning well below the tax threshold, have two kids in full time education and receive full child tax credit because if my low earnings, the council considers I am only obliged to have a £3 reduction a week. I am now, because of this change not being notified to me within a reasonable amount of time, placed in iver £2k of debt. I have never been in debt... I don't earn enough to have debt so I manage my money carefully. The council have out me in poverty as I now have to pay that back out of my meagre monthly earnings, But you know what? Give it to me in spades... You're not going to bring me down, regardless of how unfair, spiteful and degrading your staff make me feel, Brighton and hove council. I'm holding my head high and I will always do so. Brighton and hove councils advice? To send me to a crisis line for people who can't cope with their monthly bills. Stuff you. I am not a crisis case. I played by the rules and you changed them. Shame on you.[/p][/quote]You mean the government gave councils control over council tax benefit. They haven't given them any control over housing benefit. Problem is, they cut the money previously spent on ctb by 10% at the same time, But they stipulated that pensioners should not be worse off under this change, which meant a cut of more like 17% for everyone else in Brighton and Hove. So people at the lowest end of the income scale - already penalised by a highly regressive tax - are now having to pay even more. It isn't personal - no-one working at the council suddenly decided they wanted to make your life miserable. The public schoolboys in the government did that when they decided that you - not they - were going to pay for their financial crisis.[/p][/quote]And who caused this financial crises?[/p][/quote]The financial institutions with toxic lending, speculation and bonuses. Somehow loads of people have allowed themselves to be convinced that a crisis of finance capital is actually all about some "profligate" public sector. When people wake up and recognise this for the utter BS it is, we might then have a chance of turning the tide.[/p][/quote]"Loads of people" do not blame the public sector - they blame government. As a consequence of the previous government's mismanagement and spend-thrift ways the cost of the public sector is now having to be tightly controlled but that is neither because they are being blamed or because anyone is being spiteful, nor is a personal attack on any individual or group of individuals. Will you ever "wake up"? Or will you simply continue to see complex issues in terms of black and white political dogma? fredaj
  • Score: -7

12:11pm Fri 2 May 14

Andy R says...

Who needs to wake up? When Labour left office, they weren't spending more than the Tories were in the early '90s (the last time there was recession which always pushes up public spending). The UK is actually less indebted, relative to GDP, than most of the rest of the G7 countries.

"Complex issues"? It suits some people to pretend they're "complex", the better to obfuscate and mislead.

And yes, while it is true that it is more productive to fight the Coalition's policies, than speculate on their personal feelings, it is the case that this lot do have a nice line in scapegoating and demonising the victims. It's a lot easier to sell their bankrupt ideology if they can get everyone looking at each other rather than them.
Who needs to wake up? When Labour left office, they weren't spending more than the Tories were in the early '90s (the last time there was recession which always pushes up public spending). The UK is actually less indebted, relative to GDP, than most of the rest of the G7 countries. "Complex issues"? It suits some people to pretend they're "complex", the better to obfuscate and mislead. And yes, while it is true that it is more productive to fight the Coalition's policies, than speculate on their personal feelings, it is the case that this lot do have a nice line in scapegoating and demonising the victims. It's a lot easier to sell their bankrupt ideology if they can get everyone looking at each other rather than them. Andy R
  • Score: 11

12:29pm Fri 2 May 14

rayellerton says...

Andy R wrote:
Plantpot wrote:
HJarrs wrote:
the red head wrote:
Let me just be very straight about this. The government gave council control over housing benefit and as a result, my council tax went from £0 to £108 a month. The council only told me earlier this year, so I presume I am in this statistic. The reason I pay so much? Because I still have the 16 hour a week job I have had for 8 years and although I am still earning well below the tax threshold, have two kids in full time education and receive full child tax credit because if my low earnings, the council considers I am only obliged to have a £3 reduction a week. I am now, because of this change not being notified to me within a reasonable amount of time, placed in iver £2k of debt. I have never been in debt... I don't earn enough to have debt so I manage my money carefully. The council have out me in poverty as I now have to pay that back out of my meagre monthly earnings,

But you know what? Give it to me in spades... You're not going to bring me down, regardless of how unfair, spiteful and degrading your staff make me feel, Brighton and hove council. I'm holding my head high and I will always do so. Brighton and hove councils advice? To send me to a crisis line for people who can't cope with their monthly bills. Stuff you. I am not a crisis case. I played by the rules and you changed them. Shame on you.
The bedroom tax and cuts to benefits are purely down to the spiteful conservatives in the coalition. I hope you didn't vote for them.
Social housing should be reserved for the genuinely needy and vulnerable. Anyone that can afford to live outside of the public sector should do so.

5000 people earning £100k+/year live in council accommodation, which is nonsense. Included in the list was that late, great, socialist Bob Crow.

Benefit cuts should be made so that the least possible amount of money is spent on those receiving them. Living on benefits should be tough in order to shape society so that people look at getting work as a first resort, even if that means moving. An absolutely enormous sum goes on welfare in this country.
All absolute rubbish from beginning to end. It was never the aim of social housing that only the "genuinely needy and vulnerable" should be able to access it. This is simply a narrative dreamt up by the supporters of the selling off of council houses to cover their tracks. Now that there are comparatively few council houses as a result of decades of asset-stripping, we have to be persuaded that it is some kind of "special" housing of last resort. The people who peddle this line are the same people who want us to believe that the whole housing crisis is down to Bob Crow being a council tenant! Council housing was designed to provided decent affordable housing to working people, the cost of which would not take more than half of their earnings (as is the reality now). The advocates of social housing only for people on their absolute uppers want to create ghettoes. Well, you can **** off.

"Absolutely enormous sums" are NOT spent on "welfare" either. We have virtually the least generous benefits in the industrialised world, 42% of the welfare budget goes on pensions and just 3% of it on jobseekers allowance. Much of the rest of it goes to people in work, because of sky-high rents and basement-level wages. The whole welfare budget averages about 11% of GDP per year.

Don't believe the propaganda.
again I am finding myself agreeing with you on this, Council Housing is and should not be a last resort. It was to provide homes for lower paid families, and used to have strict parameters for granting a tenancy, including keeping those homes clean and tidy! Right to Buy wasn't really the mistake..the big problem was councils not being allowed to reinvest the money from those sales into new housing...
[quote][p][bold]Andy R[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Plantpot[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]HJarrs[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]the red head[/bold] wrote: Let me just be very straight about this. The government gave council control over housing benefit and as a result, my council tax went from £0 to £108 a month. The council only told me earlier this year, so I presume I am in this statistic. The reason I pay so much? Because I still have the 16 hour a week job I have had for 8 years and although I am still earning well below the tax threshold, have two kids in full time education and receive full child tax credit because if my low earnings, the council considers I am only obliged to have a £3 reduction a week. I am now, because of this change not being notified to me within a reasonable amount of time, placed in iver £2k of debt. I have never been in debt... I don't earn enough to have debt so I manage my money carefully. The council have out me in poverty as I now have to pay that back out of my meagre monthly earnings, But you know what? Give it to me in spades... You're not going to bring me down, regardless of how unfair, spiteful and degrading your staff make me feel, Brighton and hove council. I'm holding my head high and I will always do so. Brighton and hove councils advice? To send me to a crisis line for people who can't cope with their monthly bills. Stuff you. I am not a crisis case. I played by the rules and you changed them. Shame on you.[/p][/quote]The bedroom tax and cuts to benefits are purely down to the spiteful conservatives in the coalition. I hope you didn't vote for them.[/p][/quote]Social housing should be reserved for the genuinely needy and vulnerable. Anyone that can afford to live outside of the public sector should do so. 5000 people earning £100k+/year live in council accommodation, which is nonsense. Included in the list was that late, great, socialist Bob Crow. Benefit cuts should be made so that the least possible amount of money is spent on those receiving them. Living on benefits should be tough in order to shape society so that people look at getting work as a first resort, even if that means moving. An absolutely enormous sum goes on welfare in this country.[/p][/quote]All absolute rubbish from beginning to end. It was never the aim of social housing that only the "genuinely needy and vulnerable" should be able to access it. This is simply a narrative dreamt up by the supporters of the selling off of council houses to cover their tracks. Now that there are comparatively few council houses as a result of decades of asset-stripping, we have to be persuaded that it is some kind of "special" housing of last resort. The people who peddle this line are the same people who want us to believe that the whole housing crisis is down to Bob Crow being a council tenant! Council housing was designed to provided decent affordable housing to working people, the cost of which would not take more than half of their earnings (as is the reality now). The advocates of social housing only for people on their absolute uppers want to create ghettoes. Well, you can **** off. "Absolutely enormous sums" are NOT spent on "welfare" either. We have virtually the least generous benefits in the industrialised world, 42% of the welfare budget goes on pensions and just 3% of it on jobseekers allowance. Much of the rest of it goes to people in work, because of sky-high rents and basement-level wages. The whole welfare budget averages about 11% of GDP per year. Don't believe the propaganda.[/p][/quote]again I am finding myself agreeing with you on this, Council Housing is and should not be a last resort. It was to provide homes for lower paid families, and used to have strict parameters for granting a tenancy, including keeping those homes clean and tidy! Right to Buy wasn't really the mistake..the big problem was councils not being allowed to reinvest the money from those sales into new housing... rayellerton
  • Score: 12

12:44pm Fri 2 May 14

Plantpot says...

Andy R wrote:
Plantpot wrote:
HJarrs wrote:
the red head wrote:
Let me just be very straight about this. The government gave council control over housing benefit and as a result, my council tax went from £0 to £108 a month. The council only told me earlier this year, so I presume I am in this statistic. The reason I pay so much? Because I still have the 16 hour a week job I have had for 8 years and although I am still earning well below the tax threshold, have two kids in full time education and receive full child tax credit because if my low earnings, the council considers I am only obliged to have a £3 reduction a week. I am now, because of this change not being notified to me within a reasonable amount of time, placed in iver £2k of debt. I have never been in debt... I don't earn enough to have debt so I manage my money carefully. The council have out me in poverty as I now have to pay that back out of my meagre monthly earnings,

But you know what? Give it to me in spades... You're not going to bring me down, regardless of how unfair, spiteful and degrading your staff make me feel, Brighton and hove council. I'm holding my head high and I will always do so. Brighton and hove councils advice? To send me to a crisis line for people who can't cope with their monthly bills. Stuff you. I am not a crisis case. I played by the rules and you changed them. Shame on you.
The bedroom tax and cuts to benefits are purely down to the spiteful conservatives in the coalition. I hope you didn't vote for them.
Social housing should be reserved for the genuinely needy and vulnerable. Anyone that can afford to live outside of the public sector should do so.

5000 people earning £100k+/year live in council accommodation, which is nonsense. Included in the list was that late, great, socialist Bob Crow.

Benefit cuts should be made so that the least possible amount of money is spent on those receiving them. Living on benefits should be tough in order to shape society so that people look at getting work as a first resort, even if that means moving. An absolutely enormous sum goes on welfare in this country.
All absolute rubbish from beginning to end. It was never the aim of social housing that only the "genuinely needy and vulnerable" should be able to access it. This is simply a narrative dreamt up by the supporters of the selling off of council houses to cover their tracks. Now that there are comparatively few council houses as a result of decades of asset-stripping, we have to be persuaded that it is some kind of "special" housing of last resort. The people who peddle this line are the same people who want us to believe that the whole housing crisis is down to Bob Crow being a council tenant! Council housing was designed to provided decent affordable housing to working people, the cost of which would not take more than half of their earnings (as is the reality now). The advocates of social housing only for people on their absolute uppers want to create ghettoes. Well, you can **** off.

"Absolutely enormous sums" are NOT spent on "welfare" either. We have virtually the least generous benefits in the industrialised world, 42% of the welfare budget goes on pensions and just 3% of it on jobseekers allowance. Much of the rest of it goes to people in work, because of sky-high rents and basement-level wages. The whole welfare budget averages about 11% of GDP per year.

Don't believe the propaganda.
I don't. I look at proper, independent figures:
https://fullfact.org
/factchecks/is_the_u
ks_welfare_system_th
e_most_generous_in_e
urope-27368
[quote][p][bold]Andy R[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Plantpot[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]HJarrs[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]the red head[/bold] wrote: Let me just be very straight about this. The government gave council control over housing benefit and as a result, my council tax went from £0 to £108 a month. The council only told me earlier this year, so I presume I am in this statistic. The reason I pay so much? Because I still have the 16 hour a week job I have had for 8 years and although I am still earning well below the tax threshold, have two kids in full time education and receive full child tax credit because if my low earnings, the council considers I am only obliged to have a £3 reduction a week. I am now, because of this change not being notified to me within a reasonable amount of time, placed in iver £2k of debt. I have never been in debt... I don't earn enough to have debt so I manage my money carefully. The council have out me in poverty as I now have to pay that back out of my meagre monthly earnings, But you know what? Give it to me in spades... You're not going to bring me down, regardless of how unfair, spiteful and degrading your staff make me feel, Brighton and hove council. I'm holding my head high and I will always do so. Brighton and hove councils advice? To send me to a crisis line for people who can't cope with their monthly bills. Stuff you. I am not a crisis case. I played by the rules and you changed them. Shame on you.[/p][/quote]The bedroom tax and cuts to benefits are purely down to the spiteful conservatives in the coalition. I hope you didn't vote for them.[/p][/quote]Social housing should be reserved for the genuinely needy and vulnerable. Anyone that can afford to live outside of the public sector should do so. 5000 people earning £100k+/year live in council accommodation, which is nonsense. Included in the list was that late, great, socialist Bob Crow. Benefit cuts should be made so that the least possible amount of money is spent on those receiving them. Living on benefits should be tough in order to shape society so that people look at getting work as a first resort, even if that means moving. An absolutely enormous sum goes on welfare in this country.[/p][/quote]All absolute rubbish from beginning to end. It was never the aim of social housing that only the "genuinely needy and vulnerable" should be able to access it. This is simply a narrative dreamt up by the supporters of the selling off of council houses to cover their tracks. Now that there are comparatively few council houses as a result of decades of asset-stripping, we have to be persuaded that it is some kind of "special" housing of last resort. The people who peddle this line are the same people who want us to believe that the whole housing crisis is down to Bob Crow being a council tenant! Council housing was designed to provided decent affordable housing to working people, the cost of which would not take more than half of their earnings (as is the reality now). The advocates of social housing only for people on their absolute uppers want to create ghettoes. Well, you can **** off. "Absolutely enormous sums" are NOT spent on "welfare" either. We have virtually the least generous benefits in the industrialised world, 42% of the welfare budget goes on pensions and just 3% of it on jobseekers allowance. Much of the rest of it goes to people in work, because of sky-high rents and basement-level wages. The whole welfare budget averages about 11% of GDP per year. Don't believe the propaganda.[/p][/quote]I don't. I look at proper, independent figures: https://fullfact.org /factchecks/is_the_u ks_welfare_system_th e_most_generous_in_e urope-27368 Plantpot
  • Score: 0

3:26pm Fri 2 May 14

wippasnapper says...

rogerthefish wrote:
But why should people have spare rooms, there are people arriving in this country with nowhere to stay but the streets...
“But why should people have spare rooms” begging your pardon but if you own your home you can have as many bedrooms as you like regardless or not it your in reseat of benefits its only use in rented accommodation that are affected and duo to Thatcher’s big sell off scheme we now do not have anoth rented property’s to supply the needs to re-homing those that want to down size and if you think we should give a room to that’s that come hear from abroad why dote you offer them your spear room i.e. if your going abroad your book somewhere to stay you do not rely on the government of that country to house you but being most of them from Europe come hear for or jobs plus to clam our benefits without ever paying a penny in tax or Ni why should we also shier our accommodation with them.
[quote][p][bold]rogerthefish[/bold] wrote: But why should people have spare rooms, there are people arriving in this country with nowhere to stay but the streets...[/p][/quote]“But why should people have spare rooms” begging your pardon but if you own your home you can have as many bedrooms as you like regardless or not it your in reseat of benefits its only use in rented accommodation that are affected and duo to Thatcher’s big sell off scheme we now do not have anoth rented property’s to supply the needs to re-homing those that want to down size and if you think we should give a room to that’s that come hear from abroad why dote you offer them your spear room i.e. if your going abroad your book somewhere to stay you do not rely on the government of that country to house you but being most of them from Europe come hear for or jobs plus to clam our benefits without ever paying a penny in tax or Ni why should we also shier our accommodation with them. wippasnapper
  • Score: -3

3:40pm Fri 2 May 14

HJarrs says...

wippasnapper wrote:
rogerthefish wrote:
But why should people have spare rooms, there are people arriving in this country with nowhere to stay but the streets...
“But why should people have spare rooms” begging your pardon but if you own your home you can have as many bedrooms as you like regardless or not it your in reseat of benefits its only use in rented accommodation that are affected and duo to Thatcher’s big sell off scheme we now do not have anoth rented property’s to supply the needs to re-homing those that want to down size and if you think we should give a room to that’s that come hear from abroad why dote you offer them your spear room i.e. if your going abroad your book somewhere to stay you do not rely on the government of that country to house you but being most of them from Europe come hear for or jobs plus to clam our benefits without ever paying a penny in tax or Ni why should we also shier our accommodation with them.
This is nothing to do with foreigners, most of whom can thankfully write in English with greater competence than most Argus commenters. I notice that while blaming foreigners for taking jobs and benefits (make your mind up which one!), no mention is made that we didn't pay a bean towards their upbringing and eduction (looks like we get a good deal financially).

This issue of people getting into arrears due to the bedroom tax is solely down to government policy. The conservatives and their establishment pals have been remarkably successful at obscuring the fault of the wealthy by blaming the poorest for the state of our economy.
[quote][p][bold]wippasnapper[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]rogerthefish[/bold] wrote: But why should people have spare rooms, there are people arriving in this country with nowhere to stay but the streets...[/p][/quote]“But why should people have spare rooms” begging your pardon but if you own your home you can have as many bedrooms as you like regardless or not it your in reseat of benefits its only use in rented accommodation that are affected and duo to Thatcher’s big sell off scheme we now do not have anoth rented property’s to supply the needs to re-homing those that want to down size and if you think we should give a room to that’s that come hear from abroad why dote you offer them your spear room i.e. if your going abroad your book somewhere to stay you do not rely on the government of that country to house you but being most of them from Europe come hear for or jobs plus to clam our benefits without ever paying a penny in tax or Ni why should we also shier our accommodation with them.[/p][/quote]This is nothing to do with foreigners, most of whom can thankfully write in English with greater competence than most Argus commenters. I notice that while blaming foreigners for taking jobs and benefits (make your mind up which one!), no mention is made that we didn't pay a bean towards their upbringing and eduction (looks like we get a good deal financially). This issue of people getting into arrears due to the bedroom tax is solely down to government policy. The conservatives and their establishment pals have been remarkably successful at obscuring the fault of the wealthy by blaming the poorest for the state of our economy. HJarrs
  • Score: 10

7:03pm Fri 2 May 14

shining star says...

wippasnapper wrote:
rogerthefish wrote:
But why should people have spare rooms, there are people arriving in this country with nowhere to stay but the streets...
“But why should people have spare rooms” begging your pardon but if you own your home you can have as many bedrooms as you like regardless or not it your in reseat of benefits its only use in rented accommodation that are affected and duo to Thatcher’s big sell off scheme we now do not have anoth rented property’s to supply the needs to re-homing those that want to down size and if you think we should give a room to that’s that come hear from abroad why dote you offer them your spear room i.e. if your going abroad your book somewhere to stay you do not rely on the government of that country to house you but being most of them from Europe come hear for or jobs plus to clam our benefits without ever paying a penny in tax or Ni why should we also shier our accommodation with them.
WHAT ? please provide subtitles.
[quote][p][bold]wippasnapper[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]rogerthefish[/bold] wrote: But why should people have spare rooms, there are people arriving in this country with nowhere to stay but the streets...[/p][/quote]“But why should people have spare rooms” begging your pardon but if you own your home you can have as many bedrooms as you like regardless or not it your in reseat of benefits its only use in rented accommodation that are affected and duo to Thatcher’s big sell off scheme we now do not have anoth rented property’s to supply the needs to re-homing those that want to down size and if you think we should give a room to that’s that come hear from abroad why dote you offer them your spear room i.e. if your going abroad your book somewhere to stay you do not rely on the government of that country to house you but being most of them from Europe come hear for or jobs plus to clam our benefits without ever paying a penny in tax or Ni why should we also shier our accommodation with them.[/p][/quote]WHAT ? please provide subtitles. shining star
  • Score: 4

12:58am Sat 3 May 14

Suewashere says...

Most people agree with the principles of the 'bed room tax'. But the reality is cruel.

eg 1 mature lady who has been caring for her elderly Mother who has dementia - saving the high cost of a nursing home for a number of years, many of them with no support. Finally she is unable to continue to do so. As soon as her Mother goes into a nursing home she has to pay the bedroom tax.

2 (This one is not Brighton and Hove, but I expect there is someone that matches the circumstances. Son moves out around the time the bedroom tax is introduced so as well as adjusting to the lower income a double whammy as widowed Mum, who is on a zero hours contract, now has to pay the bedroom tax. In the 70s/80s, responding to a shortage, a large number of 3 bedroomed houses were built, but fewer smaller properties so she is struggling to find a smaller property for herself and daughter and is now struggling to manage her debts.

Is this really what the intention was?
Most people agree with the principles of the 'bed room tax'. But the reality is cruel. eg 1 mature lady who has been caring for her elderly Mother who has dementia - saving the high cost of a nursing home for a number of years, many of them with no support. Finally she is unable to continue to do so. As soon as her Mother goes into a nursing home she has to pay the bedroom tax. 2 (This one is not Brighton and Hove, but I expect there is someone that matches the circumstances. Son moves out around the time the bedroom tax is introduced so as well as adjusting to the lower income a double whammy as widowed Mum, who is on a zero hours contract, now has to pay the bedroom tax. In the 70s/80s, responding to a shortage, a large number of 3 bedroomed houses were built, but fewer smaller properties so she is struggling to find a smaller property for herself and daughter and is now struggling to manage her debts. Is this really what the intention was? Suewashere
  • Score: 4

8:31am Sat 3 May 14

Plantpot says...

HJarrs wrote:
wippasnapper wrote:
rogerthefish wrote:
But why should people have spare rooms, there are people arriving in this country with nowhere to stay but the streets...
“But why should people have spare rooms” begging your pardon but if you own your home you can have as many bedrooms as you like regardless or not it your in reseat of benefits its only use in rented accommodation that are affected and duo to Thatcher’s big sell off scheme we now do not have anoth rented property’s to supply the needs to re-homing those that want to down size and if you think we should give a room to that’s that come hear from abroad why dote you offer them your spear room i.e. if your going abroad your book somewhere to stay you do not rely on the government of that country to house you but being most of them from Europe come hear for or jobs plus to clam our benefits without ever paying a penny in tax or Ni why should we also shier our accommodation with them.
This is nothing to do with foreigners, most of whom can thankfully write in English with greater competence than most Argus commenters. I notice that while blaming foreigners for taking jobs and benefits (make your mind up which one!), no mention is made that we didn't pay a bean towards their upbringing and eduction (looks like we get a good deal financially).

This issue of people getting into arrears due to the bedroom tax is solely down to government policy. The conservatives and their establishment pals have been remarkably successful at obscuring the fault of the wealthy by blaming the poorest for the state of our economy.
Completely baffling as is so often the case with you. Why is it the fault of the wealthy? Who is blaming the poorest for the state of our economy?
[quote][p][bold]HJarrs[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]wippasnapper[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]rogerthefish[/bold] wrote: But why should people have spare rooms, there are people arriving in this country with nowhere to stay but the streets...[/p][/quote]“But why should people have spare rooms” begging your pardon but if you own your home you can have as many bedrooms as you like regardless or not it your in reseat of benefits its only use in rented accommodation that are affected and duo to Thatcher’s big sell off scheme we now do not have anoth rented property’s to supply the needs to re-homing those that want to down size and if you think we should give a room to that’s that come hear from abroad why dote you offer them your spear room i.e. if your going abroad your book somewhere to stay you do not rely on the government of that country to house you but being most of them from Europe come hear for or jobs plus to clam our benefits without ever paying a penny in tax or Ni why should we also shier our accommodation with them.[/p][/quote]This is nothing to do with foreigners, most of whom can thankfully write in English with greater competence than most Argus commenters. I notice that while blaming foreigners for taking jobs and benefits (make your mind up which one!), no mention is made that we didn't pay a bean towards their upbringing and eduction (looks like we get a good deal financially). This issue of people getting into arrears due to the bedroom tax is solely down to government policy. The conservatives and their establishment pals have been remarkably successful at obscuring the fault of the wealthy by blaming the poorest for the state of our economy.[/p][/quote]Completely baffling as is so often the case with you. Why is it the fault of the wealthy? Who is blaming the poorest for the state of our economy? Plantpot
  • Score: -3

12:49am Sun 4 May 14

whatevernext2013 says...

wippasnapper wrote:
rogerthefish wrote:
But why should people have spare rooms, there are people arriving in this country with nowhere to stay but the streets...
“But why should people have spare rooms” begging your pardon but if you own your home you can have as many bedrooms as you like regardless or not it your in reseat of benefits its only use in rented accommodation that are affected and duo to Thatcher’s big sell off scheme we now do not have anoth rented property’s to supply the needs to re-homing those that want to down size and if you think we should give a room to that’s that come hear from abroad why dote you offer them your spear room i.e. if your going abroad your book somewhere to stay you do not rely on the government of that country to house you but being most of them from Europe come hear for or jobs plus to clam our benefits without ever paying a penny in tax or Ni why should we also shier our accommodation with them.
what did you say ? may i ask were in the world did you come from,as english is not your first language ,what the hell is ?
[quote][p][bold]wippasnapper[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]rogerthefish[/bold] wrote: But why should people have spare rooms, there are people arriving in this country with nowhere to stay but the streets...[/p][/quote]“But why should people have spare rooms” begging your pardon but if you own your home you can have as many bedrooms as you like regardless or not it your in reseat of benefits its only use in rented accommodation that are affected and duo to Thatcher’s big sell off scheme we now do not have anoth rented property’s to supply the needs to re-homing those that want to down size and if you think we should give a room to that’s that come hear from abroad why dote you offer them your spear room i.e. if your going abroad your book somewhere to stay you do not rely on the government of that country to house you but being most of them from Europe come hear for or jobs plus to clam our benefits without ever paying a penny in tax or Ni why should we also shier our accommodation with them.[/p][/quote]what did you say ? may i ask were in the world did you come from,as english is not your first language ,what the hell is ? whatevernext2013
  • Score: -1

11:57am Sun 4 May 14

MikeyA says...

whatevernext2013 wrote:
wippasnapper wrote:
rogerthefish wrote:
But why should people have spare rooms, there are people arriving in this country with nowhere to stay but the streets...
“But why should people have spare rooms” begging your pardon but if you own your home you can have as many bedrooms as you like regardless or not it your in reseat of benefits its only use in rented accommodation that are affected and duo to Thatcher’s big sell off scheme we now do not have anoth rented property’s to supply the needs to re-homing those that want to down size and if you think we should give a room to that’s that come hear from abroad why dote you offer them your spear room i.e. if your going abroad your book somewhere to stay you do not rely on the government of that country to house you but being most of them from Europe come hear for or jobs plus to clam our benefits without ever paying a penny in tax or Ni why should we also shier our accommodation with them.
what did you say ? may i ask were in the world did you come from,as english is not your first language ,what the hell is ?
Pot? Kettle?
[quote][p][bold]whatevernext2013[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]wippasnapper[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]rogerthefish[/bold] wrote: But why should people have spare rooms, there are people arriving in this country with nowhere to stay but the streets...[/p][/quote]“But why should people have spare rooms” begging your pardon but if you own your home you can have as many bedrooms as you like regardless or not it your in reseat of benefits its only use in rented accommodation that are affected and duo to Thatcher’s big sell off scheme we now do not have anoth rented property’s to supply the needs to re-homing those that want to down size and if you think we should give a room to that’s that come hear from abroad why dote you offer them your spear room i.e. if your going abroad your book somewhere to stay you do not rely on the government of that country to house you but being most of them from Europe come hear for or jobs plus to clam our benefits without ever paying a penny in tax or Ni why should we also shier our accommodation with them.[/p][/quote]what did you say ? may i ask were in the world did you come from,as english is not your first language ,what the hell is ?[/p][/quote]Pot? Kettle? MikeyA
  • Score: 0

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