Can you afford to live in city? Special report into housing market

Can you afford to live in city? Special report into housing market

Costs of housing have skyrocketed

The cost of homes is now out of reach for many ordinary folk

First published in News by , Reporter

HOUSE prices in Brighton and Hove continue to grow as it is becoming even harder for first-time buyers to get onto the property ladder. HENRY HOLLOWAY reports on the city’s housing market which is fast becoming a “mini-London”...

IN the last quarter alone, house prices in Brighton and Hove have grown by 13% – driving the average price in the city to £367,806.

According the report by Nationwide published this week, that is nearly twice the national average, which currently sits at £186,544.

This quarterly growth seems to continue the trend, as the previous quarter also saw a growth of 14% in the prices of houses within the city.

With prices constantly growing it is becoming harder and harder for people to get a foot on the housing market.

Statistics published by housing charity Shelter show that out of 1,045 two bed or more properties in the city only one could be deemed as affordable to an average family – this works out to just 0.1 per cent of homes on the market.

Single people did not fare much better, with only three affordable one-bed properties in the city.

Couples without children had broader options in Brighton - with 21 properties being affordable, but this still only 2.0 per cent of the two-bed housing stock.

Shelter said the city and the wider region as being in a “drought of affordable homes”.

The statistics were worked out by adjusting average earnings to reflect lower ages of first-time-buyers and comparing them to house prices.

All properties which listed the number of bedrooms as zero were excluded – which removed some studio flats from the data.

Campbell Robb, chief executive of Shelter, said: “When a family looking to buy their first home searches a whole town for a place to live and finds nothing they can afford, it's clear we’re not just facing a housing shortage any more: it’s a full-blown drought.

“As the pool of affordable properties shrinks ever smaller, thousands of people are being forced to wave goodbye to their dreams of a home of their own – even those who’ve been able to put aside a large deposit. It’s a bitter pill to swallow when we know that politicians can turn the tide on our housing shortage in a single parliament.

“Our failure to build more homes is leaving a whole generation of young people with no choice but to remain trapped in expensive and unstable private renting, or stuck in their childhood bedrooms for years to come, no matter how hard they work or save.

“The only way to bring house prices back within reach is to fill the gap between the homes we have and the homes we need.

“Help to Buy or tweaks to planning rules will only ever be sticking plaster solutions.

“Bringing a stable home back within reach will take bolder action like helping small local builders to find the finance they need to get building, and investing in a new generation of part rent, part buy homes.

“What we need right now is for politicians to roll up their sleeves and make stable homes for the next generation a top priority.”

Estate agents have called Brighton and Hove a “mini-London” when it comes to the cost and demand for housing.

Jason Brand, president of Brighton and Hove Estate Agents Association and of Brand and Vaughn, said: “It is widely acknowledged there are two property markets in the UK, London and the south east, and the rest of the UK.”

He said the average age of first time buyers who did not borrow money from their parents was now sitting in the late thirties.

Mr Brand added the housing market in the city is a very difficult problem to solve.

He said: “I think the solution is a very difficult one – an interest rate rise is not going to sort it out as the rest of the UK does not need it.

“There is no magic way of solving it unless you can tie interest rates to postcodes – but that is never going to happen.

“There has been a slight cooling in the market in London, but Brighton is still very busy.

“You would naturally think it would may slow down towards the winter period – but who knows? In the last two days we have exchanged nine properties – that is record numbers.”

He added while some properties went to local people the majority were sold to people from out of the city.

Andy Lees, partner in Graves Son and Pilcher, said: “Nowadays the property market is far more transparent and people are aware of its limits and as a result tend not to put their own on the market.

“That of course brings it back to the old supply and demand routine and that leads to many properties achieving a higher price.

“What does not help is the government’s new take on buy to lets and they are not making it easy for people looking to owner occupy.”

Danny Ross, manager at Baron Estates, said: “Shelter’s statistics do not surprise me, they are worrying, but not surprising.” Paul Bonett, Brighton member of the National Association of Estate Agents, called rising property prices a “paradox”.

He said: “The problem with Brighton and Hove is that it’s a very desirable place to be.

“The Brighton scene and it’s vicinity to London, along with its popularity with students, is helping to drive up prices.”

He added: “Brighton is like a mini London and is comparable to Oxford and Cambridge, they have big student populations and high amounts of rentals.”

Caroline Lucas, MP for Brighton Pavilion, slammed the state of the market saying house prices in her constituency were twice the norm.

She said: “It’s just not good enough that Brighton and Hove is effectively off limits to the vast majority of would-be first time local buyers.

“In my constituency, house prices are double the national average – with a knock-on effect on private rents, which are also double the norm in Brighton Pavilion.

“The problem is made even worse by the Government’s cuts and successive government’s failure to invest in new affordable and council housing.

“So I’m delighted Shelter is calling on the Government to get a reality check and build more affordable homes.

“The situation has to change. That’s why I questioned the Prime Minister about it on Wednesday, it’s why I questioned Labour shadow ministers and it’s exactly what my Housing Charter – compiled from the experience of hundreds of local residents – addresses.”

Andy Winter, chief executive of the Brighton Housing Trust, said: "It comes as no surprise to me that just 0.1 per cent of homes are affordable for first time buyers in Brighton and Hove.”

Brighton and Hove has long been an attractive prospect for Londoners wishing to cash in on property prices in the capital.

“As a result, demand for housing from relatively wealthy Londoners, students remaining after graduation, and local people, has created an over-heated housing market where just the better off can expect to thrive.”

Councillor Bill Randall, Chair of Housing Committee, said buying a home was “beyond the means of almost all of the city’s sons and daughters”.

He said: “Private sector rents are soaring beyond the pocket of many people and housing associations no longer provide for those on low incomes.

“Tory housing policy has failed our city. We urge the Government to allow local authorities like Brighton and Hove to borrow to build more homes for rent and for part rent and part buy.

“We have identified sites across the city and are working up plans for new homes in partnership with housing co-ops and self-builders.

“Some of the sites are very small and will yield only one or two homes, but every scrap of land is important in a city so short of space and so full of people.

“In the longer term, the city’s housing problems will be solved only by building across the wider city region.”

 

• Consequences of rents

WHILE the housing market can often provide baffling statistics, the effect it has on people’s lives is very real.

Some people are finding it impossible to get their feet onto the property ladder and are being forced into renting.

Brighton has one of the biggest rental markets outside London - fuelling problems with so-called “Generation Rent” which The Argus has previously reported on.

One woman called Sasha, who wished to remain anonymous, is a single working mum living in Brighton who has been forced to rent as she cannot afford to buy her own home.

With her baby boy she has been seeking a one-bedroom flat to rent – which was all she could afford in the city.

Even though Sasha has the means to rent privately, the barriers she's faced from the private rental sector left her “terrified” and contemplating the possibility of having to make a homelessness application.

She said: “I can't afford two bedrooms, although I’d obviously love to be able to.

“I believe this issue must be a wider one in the city.

“We need more than ever to try and break down barriers to accessing the private rented sector.”

 

• Working 3,609 hours to afford a deposit

AN online estate agent carried out a report which found that house buyers in Brighton will work an average at least 3,609 hours before they can put down a deposit.

Their report also states buyers would have to work 18,048 hours before they could afford to outright buy their own homes.

The average hours worked was calculated assuming the average full-time worker is paid for 37.5 hours of work a week and gets 25 days holiday.

Deposits were calculated as 20% of costs of property based on figures from the land registry.

This stat pales in comparison to London however while buyers in London having to work up to 9,000 hours.

Russell Quirk, eMoov.co.uk founder, said: “Buyers really have their work cut out just to pay for a deposit these days.”

Comments (30)

Please log in to enable comment sorting

3:18pm Sat 5 Jul 14

rolivan says...

There is an easy solution all the mortgage Companies need to do is introduce 100 year mortgages like Japan then the cost is shared over generations . The Finance institutions might not like it though as it doesn't fit into their get rich quick schemes.
There is an easy solution all the mortgage Companies need to do is introduce 100 year mortgages like Japan then the cost is shared over generations . The Finance institutions might not like it though as it doesn't fit into their get rich quick schemes. rolivan
  • Score: 6

3:38pm Sat 5 Jul 14

maria m says...

It is no more difficult than in the 1970 when we tried to get a mortgage we could only have two and a half times the husbands earnings, the partners wages were not taken into account. We both had to do two jobs to enable us to get a deposit, and interest rates were about 11%
It is no more difficult than in the 1970 when we tried to get a mortgage we could only have two and a half times the husbands earnings, the partners wages were not taken into account. We both had to do two jobs to enable us to get a deposit, and interest rates were about 11% maria m
  • Score: -2

3:50pm Sat 5 Jul 14

Maxwell's Ghost says...

........and even if one can afford to live in the city, is it good value for money?
If you need an income of more than £70,000 p/a to buy a property would you stay here with a family? Are the schools any good, is the housing stock worth what you get for your money, are there job opportunities available locally to ensure you can earn enough to pay for housing? If you pay half a million for a family home do you want to end up next door to a party house?
........and even if one can afford to live in the city, is it good value for money? If you need an income of more than £70,000 p/a to buy a property would you stay here with a family? Are the schools any good, is the housing stock worth what you get for your money, are there job opportunities available locally to ensure you can earn enough to pay for housing? If you pay half a million for a family home do you want to end up next door to a party house? Maxwell's Ghost
  • Score: 25

4:41pm Sat 5 Jul 14

rogerthefish says...

Blame the planning department after all they are the ones that plan, problem is they take there time over everything to justify their jobs.
Blame the planning department after all they are the ones that plan, problem is they take there time over everything to justify their jobs. rogerthefish
  • Score: -3

4:43pm Sat 5 Jul 14

lonegull says...

Maria m I'm sorry but you either have a very selective memory or have completely lost touch with reality. I have a house with a large amount of equity and realise just how lucky I am to be in that situation.
No doubt you both worked hard to get your deposit but the two scenarios are simply not comparable. I find comments such as yours offensive to hard working young people.
You managed to buy a house which cost only 2.5x your husband's salary so even with interest rates at 11% your repayments would have remained affordable. You also benefited from high inflation and even higher wage growth that effectively reduced the level of debt very quickly. No doubt you know benefit from a final salary pension scheme which you feel like you've earnt even though in reality it will be paid for by the wealth generated from the younger generation who can't afford a home of their own or have the luxury of knowing they have a generous pension to look forward to.
Maria m I'm sorry but you either have a very selective memory or have completely lost touch with reality. I have a house with a large amount of equity and realise just how lucky I am to be in that situation. No doubt you both worked hard to get your deposit but the two scenarios are simply not comparable. I find comments such as yours offensive to hard working young people. You managed to buy a house which cost only 2.5x your husband's salary so even with interest rates at 11% your repayments would have remained affordable. You also benefited from high inflation and even higher wage growth that effectively reduced the level of debt very quickly. No doubt you know benefit from a final salary pension scheme which you feel like you've earnt even though in reality it will be paid for by the wealth generated from the younger generation who can't afford a home of their own or have the luxury of knowing they have a generous pension to look forward to. lonegull
  • Score: 32

4:44pm Sat 5 Jul 14

hey mongo says...

Its not lack of houses its simply to many people...plus wages in brighton are rubbish...houses in hanover cost a bomb but lets be honest most of them are rubbish skinny little houses you couldnt swing a mouse in them let alone a cat
Its not lack of houses its simply to many people...plus wages in brighton are rubbish...houses in hanover cost a bomb but lets be honest most of them are rubbish skinny little houses you couldnt swing a mouse in them let alone a cat hey mongo
  • Score: 47

5:52pm Sat 5 Jul 14

We love Red Billy says...

We bought our first flat on Lewes rd after we had saved for several years. Our next property was a two bed house and now we have a four bed and are looking for early retirement. We have worked extremely hard and made a lot of sacrifices. Prices are now monstrously inflated and our own children will have to wait until we are dead to get on the housing ladder. Successive governments have failed to control the housing market, to build sufficient housing or recognise enterprise. Politicians of all colours, a plague on all your houses. #politicalchamberpot
s
We bought our first flat on Lewes rd after we had saved for several years. Our next property was a two bed house and now we have a four bed and are looking for early retirement. We have worked extremely hard and made a lot of sacrifices. Prices are now monstrously inflated and our own children will have to wait until we are dead to get on the housing ladder. Successive governments have failed to control the housing market, to build sufficient housing or recognise enterprise. Politicians of all colours, a plague on all your houses. #politicalchamberpot s We love Red Billy
  • Score: 35

5:59pm Sat 5 Jul 14

Sir Prised says...

lonegull wrote:
Maria m I'm sorry but you either have a very selective memory or have completely lost touch with reality. I have a house with a large amount of equity and realise just how lucky I am to be in that situation.
No doubt you both worked hard to get your deposit but the two scenarios are simply not comparable. I find comments such as yours offensive to hard working young people.
You managed to buy a house which cost only 2.5x your husband's salary so even with interest rates at 11% your repayments would have remained affordable. You also benefited from high inflation and even higher wage growth that effectively reduced the level of debt very quickly. No doubt you know benefit from a final salary pension scheme which you feel like you've earnt even though in reality it will be paid for by the wealth generated from the younger generation who can't afford a home of their own or have the luxury of knowing they have a generous pension to look forward to.
You're absoluetly right. Nationalised Industries and Trade Uniions, along with responsible lending, meant that most folk could at least start off in a modest home and hope to eventually move up market. Now with so many jobs exported overseas, rendering most unions impotent and job security non-existent and lending having become a for-profit exercise, rather than existing to enable home-ownership, the young people are put in an impossible position. The wealthy have never parted with their money voluntarily and at present, they hold all the cards. We need to find a middle way between capitalism and socialism but despite our supposed intelligence, I wont be holding my breath. On a practical front, we need to stop allowing the development of smaller properties, so that older people can downsize. We don't all want to live in old-folk's flats !
[quote][p][bold]lonegull[/bold] wrote: Maria m I'm sorry but you either have a very selective memory or have completely lost touch with reality. I have a house with a large amount of equity and realise just how lucky I am to be in that situation. No doubt you both worked hard to get your deposit but the two scenarios are simply not comparable. I find comments such as yours offensive to hard working young people. You managed to buy a house which cost only 2.5x your husband's salary so even with interest rates at 11% your repayments would have remained affordable. You also benefited from high inflation and even higher wage growth that effectively reduced the level of debt very quickly. No doubt you know benefit from a final salary pension scheme which you feel like you've earnt even though in reality it will be paid for by the wealth generated from the younger generation who can't afford a home of their own or have the luxury of knowing they have a generous pension to look forward to.[/p][/quote]You're absoluetly right. Nationalised Industries and Trade Uniions, along with responsible lending, meant that most folk could at least start off in a modest home and hope to eventually move up market. Now with so many jobs exported overseas, rendering most unions impotent and job security non-existent and lending having become a for-profit exercise, rather than existing to enable home-ownership, the young people are put in an impossible position. The wealthy have never parted with their money voluntarily and at present, they hold all the cards. We need to find a middle way between capitalism and socialism but despite our supposed intelligence, I wont be holding my breath. On a practical front, we need to stop allowing the development of smaller properties, so that older people can downsize. We don't all want to live in old-folk's flats ! Sir Prised
  • Score: 12

7:26pm Sat 5 Jul 14

bug eye says...

And how many council homes have the Greens built? Oh no too busy building state of the art student halls in prime city centre. Anyway what is wrong with a hot spot, a Monaco on the south coast, Brighton and hove is tiny compared to London where people travel miles to work. So if you cant afford the desirable parts of the city then buy in Peacehaven, Newhaven, Lancing etc. they are all still cheap and a short bus or train ride, that's what Londoners do. Clearly people working in the city or with childhood links should be on the housing list. The city is too small and restrictive for large developments, so why are the council not building on existing stock, adding extra floors to blocks or loft conversions to houses or converting houses into two flats. etc. It is unfortunate but you cant always live where you want, otherwise I would be in Mayfair.
And how many council homes have the Greens built? Oh no too busy building state of the art student halls in prime city centre. Anyway what is wrong with a hot spot, a Monaco on the south coast, Brighton and hove is tiny compared to London where people travel miles to work. So if you cant afford the desirable parts of the city then buy in Peacehaven, Newhaven, Lancing etc. they are all still cheap and a short bus or train ride, that's what Londoners do. Clearly people working in the city or with childhood links should be on the housing list. The city is too small and restrictive for large developments, so why are the council not building on existing stock, adding extra floors to blocks or loft conversions to houses or converting houses into two flats. etc. It is unfortunate but you cant always live where you want, otherwise I would be in Mayfair. bug eye
  • Score: 12

7:29pm Sat 5 Jul 14

chrismilo says...

I blame the Tories Going back to Thatchers days when she gave away the council houses.
I blame the Tories Going back to Thatchers days when she gave away the council houses. chrismilo
  • Score: 18

7:46pm Sat 5 Jul 14

homewood says...

Brighton and Hove is a great place to live hence the high prices in the nice parts. Hove park, roads off Church road etc.

Properties in places like woodingdean, and further out are much less expensive. The areas are not as nice obviously but they are a lot more affordable and an easy commute to Brighton and Hove
Brighton and Hove is a great place to live hence the high prices in the nice parts. Hove park, roads off Church road etc. Properties in places like woodingdean, and further out are much less expensive. The areas are not as nice obviously but they are a lot more affordable and an easy commute to Brighton and Hove homewood
  • Score: 15

7:51pm Sat 5 Jul 14

Sir Prised says...

bug eye wrote:
And how many council homes have the Greens built? Oh no too busy building state of the art student halls in prime city centre. Anyway what is wrong with a hot spot, a Monaco on the south coast, Brighton and hove is tiny compared to London where people travel miles to work. So if you cant afford the desirable parts of the city then buy in Peacehaven, Newhaven, Lancing etc. they are all still cheap and a short bus or train ride, that's what Londoners do. Clearly people working in the city or with childhood links should be on the housing list. The city is too small and restrictive for large developments, so why are the council not building on existing stock, adding extra floors to blocks or loft conversions to houses or converting houses into two flats. etc. It is unfortunate but you cant always live where you want, otherwise I would be in Mayfair.
A 5 million population increase in 12 years is unsustainable at any building rate. What you are suggesting is what is happening in London, i.e. workers on relatively low incomes can't afford to live there and travel is expensive. We need to limit demand and maintain diverse communities. True there have always been expensive areas but any city needs a range of accomodation. The main issue thoough, is distribution of wealth.
[quote][p][bold]bug eye[/bold] wrote: And how many council homes have the Greens built? Oh no too busy building state of the art student halls in prime city centre. Anyway what is wrong with a hot spot, a Monaco on the south coast, Brighton and hove is tiny compared to London where people travel miles to work. So if you cant afford the desirable parts of the city then buy in Peacehaven, Newhaven, Lancing etc. they are all still cheap and a short bus or train ride, that's what Londoners do. Clearly people working in the city or with childhood links should be on the housing list. The city is too small and restrictive for large developments, so why are the council not building on existing stock, adding extra floors to blocks or loft conversions to houses or converting houses into two flats. etc. It is unfortunate but you cant always live where you want, otherwise I would be in Mayfair.[/p][/quote]A 5 million population increase in 12 years is unsustainable at any building rate. What you are suggesting is what is happening in London, i.e. workers on relatively low incomes can't afford to live there and travel is expensive. We need to limit demand and maintain diverse communities. True there have always been expensive areas but any city needs a range of accomodation. The main issue thoough, is distribution of wealth. Sir Prised
  • Score: 1

8:45pm Sat 5 Jul 14

rolivan says...

Sir Prised wrote:
bug eye wrote:
And how many council homes have the Greens built? Oh no too busy building state of the art student halls in prime city centre. Anyway what is wrong with a hot spot, a Monaco on the south coast, Brighton and hove is tiny compared to London where people travel miles to work. So if you cant afford the desirable parts of the city then buy in Peacehaven, Newhaven, Lancing etc. they are all still cheap and a short bus or train ride, that's what Londoners do. Clearly people working in the city or with childhood links should be on the housing list. The city is too small and restrictive for large developments, so why are the council not building on existing stock, adding extra floors to blocks or loft conversions to houses or converting houses into two flats. etc. It is unfortunate but you cant always live where you want, otherwise I would be in Mayfair.
A 5 million population increase in 12 years is unsustainable at any building rate. What you are suggesting is what is happening in London, i.e. workers on relatively low incomes can't afford to live there and travel is expensive. We need to limit demand and maintain diverse communities. True there have always been expensive areas but any city needs a range of accomodation. The main issue thoough, is distribution of wealth.
I have to disagree the real issue is making sure there are MORE than enough places for Student accommodation and this should be the responsibility of The Universities and other Student facilities where accommodation is required . It is all very well them converting places like The Old Co-op building but that is only like treading water.420 might seem like a commitment but with them wanting to increase student numbers by 5,000 will only fuel the fire .This has caused the shortage because people have been given cheap finance on buy to let loans which has pushed up House prices.
[quote][p][bold]Sir Prised[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]bug eye[/bold] wrote: And how many council homes have the Greens built? Oh no too busy building state of the art student halls in prime city centre. Anyway what is wrong with a hot spot, a Monaco on the south coast, Brighton and hove is tiny compared to London where people travel miles to work. So if you cant afford the desirable parts of the city then buy in Peacehaven, Newhaven, Lancing etc. they are all still cheap and a short bus or train ride, that's what Londoners do. Clearly people working in the city or with childhood links should be on the housing list. The city is too small and restrictive for large developments, so why are the council not building on existing stock, adding extra floors to blocks or loft conversions to houses or converting houses into two flats. etc. It is unfortunate but you cant always live where you want, otherwise I would be in Mayfair.[/p][/quote]A 5 million population increase in 12 years is unsustainable at any building rate. What you are suggesting is what is happening in London, i.e. workers on relatively low incomes can't afford to live there and travel is expensive. We need to limit demand and maintain diverse communities. True there have always been expensive areas but any city needs a range of accomodation. The main issue thoough, is distribution of wealth.[/p][/quote]I have to disagree the real issue is making sure there are MORE than enough places for Student accommodation and this should be the responsibility of The Universities and other Student facilities where accommodation is required . It is all very well them converting places like The Old Co-op building but that is only like treading water.420 might seem like a commitment but with them wanting to increase student numbers by 5,000 will only fuel the fire .This has caused the shortage because people have been given cheap finance on buy to let loans which has pushed up House prices. rolivan
  • Score: 22

1:13am Sun 6 Jul 14

martyt says...

homewood wrote:
Brighton and Hove is a great place to live hence the high prices in the nice parts. Hove park, roads off Church road etc.

Properties in places like woodingdean, and further out are much less expensive. The areas are not as nice obviously but they are a lot more affordable and an easy commute to Brighton and Hove
have you seen the prices in woodingdean
[quote][p][bold]homewood[/bold] wrote: Brighton and Hove is a great place to live hence the high prices in the nice parts. Hove park, roads off Church road etc. Properties in places like woodingdean, and further out are much less expensive. The areas are not as nice obviously but they are a lot more affordable and an easy commute to Brighton and Hove[/p][/quote]have you seen the prices in woodingdean martyt
  • Score: 5

3:00am Sun 6 Jul 14

Zeta Function says...

A property becomes a home once it's lived in, by real people, not ghosts or zombies, it doesn't have to be bought or owned by the homemakers.

And where does the idea come from that Brighton and Hove is irresistibly attractive? Many parts are run down and truly awful, and people would be better off in a Midlands town.

And, why no proposed developments in inner Hove as opposed to way out in Mile Oak, right next to the bypass, great for your little baby's lungs, and over in the east where the urban residential environment is an eyesore for many.

Knock down a few of the old rickety villas and build decent flats.
Especially those on the market over valued by £1 mil, or more. Do something with all the plots of waste land dotted around Hove.

Building cheap housing on the margins so that central Brighton and Hove can be freed up for the rich and transient is not going to solve the housing crisis or reduce the gap between rich and poor.
A property becomes a home once it's lived in, by real people, not ghosts or zombies, it doesn't have to be bought or owned by the homemakers. And where does the idea come from that Brighton and Hove is irresistibly attractive? Many parts are run down and truly awful, and people would be better off in a Midlands town. And, why no proposed developments in inner Hove as opposed to way out in Mile Oak, right next to the bypass, great for your little baby's lungs, and over in the east where the urban residential environment is an eyesore for many. Knock down a few of the old rickety villas and build decent flats. Especially those on the market over valued by £1 mil, or more. Do something with all the plots of waste land dotted around Hove. Building cheap housing on the margins so that central Brighton and Hove can be freed up for the rich and transient is not going to solve the housing crisis or reduce the gap between rich and poor. Zeta Function
  • Score: 4

9:38am Sun 6 Jul 14

jamus77 says...

And not just Brighton and Hove. I could no longer afford to buy my house in Worthing if you minus the equity. The solutions to this madness are obvious - build more houses, outlaw btl, heavily tax second homes - but the truth is there's far too much vested interest in maintaining inflationary prices. I have friends in London who are getting very rich simply because they bought a house at the right time. Insane.
And not just Brighton and Hove. I could no longer afford to buy my house in Worthing if you minus the equity. The solutions to this madness are obvious - build more houses, outlaw btl, heavily tax second homes - but the truth is there's far too much vested interest in maintaining inflationary prices. I have friends in London who are getting very rich simply because they bought a house at the right time. Insane. jamus77
  • Score: 13

11:05am Sun 6 Jul 14

brighton bluenose says...

rolivan wrote:
Sir Prised wrote:
bug eye wrote:
And how many council homes have the Greens built? Oh no too busy building state of the art student halls in prime city centre. Anyway what is wrong with a hot spot, a Monaco on the south coast, Brighton and hove is tiny compared to London where people travel miles to work. So if you cant afford the desirable parts of the city then buy in Peacehaven, Newhaven, Lancing etc. they are all still cheap and a short bus or train ride, that's what Londoners do. Clearly people working in the city or with childhood links should be on the housing list. The city is too small and restrictive for large developments, so why are the council not building on existing stock, adding extra floors to blocks or loft conversions to houses or converting houses into two flats. etc. It is unfortunate but you cant always live where you want, otherwise I would be in Mayfair.
A 5 million population increase in 12 years is unsustainable at any building rate. What you are suggesting is what is happening in London, i.e. workers on relatively low incomes can't afford to live there and travel is expensive. We need to limit demand and maintain diverse communities. True there have always been expensive areas but any city needs a range of accomodation. The main issue thoough, is distribution of wealth.
I have to disagree the real issue is making sure there are MORE than enough places for Student accommodation and this should be the responsibility of The Universities and other Student facilities where accommodation is required . It is all very well them converting places like The Old Co-op building but that is only like treading water.420 might seem like a commitment but with them wanting to increase student numbers by 5,000 will only fuel the fire .This has caused the shortage because people have been given cheap finance on buy to let loans which has pushed up House prices.
The issue with students is not just the increasing numbers coming here to study but the fact that a large percentage also decide to put down roots in the city once their studies are completed - I'm not sure of the actual figures but this will undoubtedly put increased pressure on the housing stock, whether rented or bought, year-on-year!
[quote][p][bold]rolivan[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Sir Prised[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]bug eye[/bold] wrote: And how many council homes have the Greens built? Oh no too busy building state of the art student halls in prime city centre. Anyway what is wrong with a hot spot, a Monaco on the south coast, Brighton and hove is tiny compared to London where people travel miles to work. So if you cant afford the desirable parts of the city then buy in Peacehaven, Newhaven, Lancing etc. they are all still cheap and a short bus or train ride, that's what Londoners do. Clearly people working in the city or with childhood links should be on the housing list. The city is too small and restrictive for large developments, so why are the council not building on existing stock, adding extra floors to blocks or loft conversions to houses or converting houses into two flats. etc. It is unfortunate but you cant always live where you want, otherwise I would be in Mayfair.[/p][/quote]A 5 million population increase in 12 years is unsustainable at any building rate. What you are suggesting is what is happening in London, i.e. workers on relatively low incomes can't afford to live there and travel is expensive. We need to limit demand and maintain diverse communities. True there have always been expensive areas but any city needs a range of accomodation. The main issue thoough, is distribution of wealth.[/p][/quote]I have to disagree the real issue is making sure there are MORE than enough places for Student accommodation and this should be the responsibility of The Universities and other Student facilities where accommodation is required . It is all very well them converting places like The Old Co-op building but that is only like treading water.420 might seem like a commitment but with them wanting to increase student numbers by 5,000 will only fuel the fire .This has caused the shortage because people have been given cheap finance on buy to let loans which has pushed up House prices.[/p][/quote]The issue with students is not just the increasing numbers coming here to study but the fact that a large percentage also decide to put down roots in the city once their studies are completed - I'm not sure of the actual figures but this will undoubtedly put increased pressure on the housing stock, whether rented or bought, year-on-year! brighton bluenose
  • Score: 8

11:08am Sun 6 Jul 14

brighton bluenose says...

Zeta Function wrote:
A property becomes a home once it's lived in, by real people, not ghosts or zombies, it doesn't have to be bought or owned by the homemakers.

And where does the idea come from that Brighton and Hove is irresistibly attractive? Many parts are run down and truly awful, and people would be better off in a Midlands town.

And, why no proposed developments in inner Hove as opposed to way out in Mile Oak, right next to the bypass, great for your little baby's lungs, and over in the east where the urban residential environment is an eyesore for many.

Knock down a few of the old rickety villas and build decent flats.
Especially those on the market over valued by £1 mil, or more. Do something with all the plots of waste land dotted around Hove.

Building cheap housing on the margins so that central Brighton and Hove can be freed up for the rich and transient is not going to solve the housing crisis or reduce the gap between rich and poor.
Get real - central Brighton and Hove are some of the most densely populated areas in the country!!
[quote][p][bold]Zeta Function[/bold] wrote: A property becomes a home once it's lived in, by real people, not ghosts or zombies, it doesn't have to be bought or owned by the homemakers. And where does the idea come from that Brighton and Hove is irresistibly attractive? Many parts are run down and truly awful, and people would be better off in a Midlands town. And, why no proposed developments in inner Hove as opposed to way out in Mile Oak, right next to the bypass, great for your little baby's lungs, and over in the east where the urban residential environment is an eyesore for many. Knock down a few of the old rickety villas and build decent flats. Especially those on the market over valued by £1 mil, or more. Do something with all the plots of waste land dotted around Hove. Building cheap housing on the margins so that central Brighton and Hove can be freed up for the rich and transient is not going to solve the housing crisis or reduce the gap between rich and poor.[/p][/quote]Get real - central Brighton and Hove are some of the most densely populated areas in the country!! brighton bluenose
  • Score: 6

11:35am Sun 6 Jul 14

portslader says...

Even though I understand and agree to a lot of what people are saying here on this forum! But there is one thing people are forgetting and that is the whole structure of how mortgages are based on which is outdated and do not work anymore.

Let me explain: Roughly 30yrs you went out and brought a property say for £60,000 and spent 10+ yrs living in that house spending hard earn money doing it up adding modification etc. One day you decided you wanted to sell your property not only to get back what you paid in but make a bit of profit too which is fine. The problem is that same house is now worth say £150.000, so the next couple or family who buys that house also spent 10+ years paying the mortgage and spending their hard earn money doing it up etc, they also decided to sell the property for £250.000 see where I am going with this?

The only people that can afford to buy properties nowadays are the developers and landlords who knows that they can make money by renting which is bad news for anyone that wants to buy a house because unless you are on exceptional wages it is very hard to find the money to get a deposit nowadays and even if you could afford a ‘home’ to purchase then you’re spending the rest of your life not with a home but a ball and chain.

True! Everyone needs a roof over their heads and yes over population of towns and cities doesn't help but then again living on the streets not an option either!
Even though I understand and agree to a lot of what people are saying here on this forum! But there is one thing people are forgetting and that is the whole structure of how mortgages are based on which is outdated and do not work anymore. Let me explain: Roughly 30yrs you went out and brought a property say for £60,000 and spent 10+ yrs living in that house spending hard earn money doing it up adding modification etc. One day you decided you wanted to sell your property not only to get back what you paid in but make a bit of profit too which is fine. The problem is that same house is now worth say £150.000, so the next couple or family who buys that house also spent 10+ years paying the mortgage and spending their hard earn money doing it up etc, they also decided to sell the property for £250.000 see where I am going with this? The only people that can afford to buy properties nowadays are the developers and landlords who knows that they can make money by renting which is bad news for anyone that wants to buy a house because unless you are on exceptional wages it is very hard to find the money to get a deposit nowadays and even if you could afford a ‘home’ to purchase then you’re spending the rest of your life not with a home but a ball and chain. True! Everyone needs a roof over their heads and yes over population of towns and cities doesn't help but then again living on the streets not an option either! portslader
  • Score: 1

12:34pm Sun 6 Jul 14

darcyp says...

portslader says...

Even though I understand and agree to a lot of what people are saying here on this forum! But there is one thing people are forgetting and that is the whole structure of how mortgages are based on which is outdated and do not work anymore.

Let me explain: Roughly 30yrs you went out and brought a property say for £60,000 and spent 10+ yrs living in that house spending hard earn money doing it up adding modification etc. One day you decided you wanted to sell your property not only to get back what you paid in but make a bit of profit too which is fine. The problem is that same house is now worth say £150.000, so the next couple or family who buys that house also spent 10+ years paying the mortgage and spending their hard earn money doing it up etc, they also decided to sell the property for £250.000 see where I am going with this?

The only people that can afford to buy properties nowadays are the developers and landlords who knows that they can make money by renting which is bad news for anyone that wants to buy a house because unless you are on exceptional wages it is very hard to find the money to get a deposit nowadays and even if you could afford a ‘home’ to purchase then you’re spending the rest of your life not with a home but a ball and chain.

True! Everyone needs a roof over their heads and yes over population of towns and cities doesn't help but then again living on the streets not an option either!

Well I heard it all now...this bit gets me..................
..............Let me explain: Roughly 30yrs you went out and brought a property say for £60,000 and spent 10+ yrs living in that house spending hard earn money doing it up adding modification etc. One day you decided you wanted to sell your property not only to get back what you paid in but make a bit of profit too which is fine. The problem is that same house is now worth say £150.000, so the next couple or family who buys that house also spent 10+ years paying the mortgage and spending their hard earn money doing it up etc, they also decided to sell the property for £250.000 see where I am going with this?

Where did you get this from? you buy your first home as we did I had a flat and no garden,i had two small children so had to upgrade,we brought a house and everything we got on the flat went on the deposit for the house,everyone knows when you upgrade it cost you more you don't have money over when you sell the next place is more expensive....this bit is just well made me laugh...............
...(One day you decided you wanted to sell your property not only to get back what you paid in but make a bit of profit).

And just too inform you sir or madam those two little children I had are adults 29 and 30 that still live at home as they can't afford to move out.
portslader says... Even though I understand and agree to a lot of what people are saying here on this forum! But there is one thing people are forgetting and that is the whole structure of how mortgages are based on which is outdated and do not work anymore. Let me explain: Roughly 30yrs you went out and brought a property say for £60,000 and spent 10+ yrs living in that house spending hard earn money doing it up adding modification etc. One day you decided you wanted to sell your property not only to get back what you paid in but make a bit of profit too which is fine. The problem is that same house is now worth say £150.000, so the next couple or family who buys that house also spent 10+ years paying the mortgage and spending their hard earn money doing it up etc, they also decided to sell the property for £250.000 see where I am going with this? The only people that can afford to buy properties nowadays are the developers and landlords who knows that they can make money by renting which is bad news for anyone that wants to buy a house because unless you are on exceptional wages it is very hard to find the money to get a deposit nowadays and even if you could afford a ‘home’ to purchase then you’re spending the rest of your life not with a home but a ball and chain. True! Everyone needs a roof over their heads and yes over population of towns and cities doesn't help but then again living on the streets not an option either! Well I heard it all now...this bit gets me.................. ..............Let me explain: Roughly 30yrs you went out and brought a property say for £60,000 and spent 10+ yrs living in that house spending hard earn money doing it up adding modification etc. One day you decided you wanted to sell your property not only to get back what you paid in but make a bit of profit too which is fine. The problem is that same house is now worth say £150.000, so the next couple or family who buys that house also spent 10+ years paying the mortgage and spending their hard earn money doing it up etc, they also decided to sell the property for £250.000 see where I am going with this? Where did you get this from? you buy your first home as we did I had a flat and no garden,i had two small children so had to upgrade,we brought a house and everything we got on the flat went on the deposit for the house,everyone knows when you upgrade it cost you more you don't have money over when you sell the next place is more expensive....this bit is just well made me laugh............... ...(One day you decided you wanted to sell your property not only to get back what you paid in but make a bit of profit). And just too inform you sir or madam those two little children I had are adults 29 and 30 that still live at home as they can't afford to move out. darcyp
  • Score: 3

12:52pm Sun 6 Jul 14

Worriedofbrighton says...

It's easy just become a traveller, everything will be taken care of by the idiot council and won't cost a penny. Simples.
It's easy just become a traveller, everything will be taken care of by the idiot council and won't cost a penny. Simples. Worriedofbrighton
  • Score: 5

12:53pm Sun 6 Jul 14

From beer to uncertainty says...

It's outrageous. I toiled hard at work (breaking wind into packets of dry roasted peanuts before they're sealed) for 129 years before I could afford my first hole in't' ground...and another 30 years before providing a nice new tarpaulin for my youngest of 38 children.
We would huddle around an empty packet of swan vestas for warmth. Yes, and even in our darkest hour, when little hope was left in sight, we would all gain strength from holding hands and singing our old favourite: 'At least we don't live in Crawley'.
It's outrageous. I toiled hard at work (breaking wind into packets of dry roasted peanuts before they're sealed) for 129 years before I could afford my first hole in't' ground...and another 30 years before providing a nice new tarpaulin for my youngest of 38 children. We would huddle around an empty packet of swan vestas for warmth. Yes, and even in our darkest hour, when little hope was left in sight, we would all gain strength from holding hands and singing our old favourite: 'At least we don't live in Crawley'. From beer to uncertainty
  • Score: 5

9:44pm Sun 6 Jul 14

stevo!! says...

Immigration.

Next question?
Immigration. Next question? stevo!!
  • Score: -12

7:16am Mon 7 Jul 14

Sussex jim says...

Sir Prised wrote:
bug eye wrote:
And how many council homes have the Greens built? Oh no too busy building state of the art student halls in prime city centre. Anyway what is wrong with a hot spot, a Monaco on the south coast, Brighton and hove is tiny compared to London where people travel miles to work. So if you cant afford the desirable parts of the city then buy in Peacehaven, Newhaven, Lancing etc. they are all still cheap and a short bus or train ride, that's what Londoners do. Clearly people working in the city or with childhood links should be on the housing list. The city is too small and restrictive for large developments, so why are the council not building on existing stock, adding extra floors to blocks or loft conversions to houses or converting houses into two flats. etc. It is unfortunate but you cant always live where you want, otherwise I would be in Mayfair.
A 5 million population increase in 12 years is unsustainable at any building rate. What you are suggesting is what is happening in London, i.e. workers on relatively low incomes can't afford to live there and travel is expensive. We need to limit demand and maintain diverse communities. True there have always been expensive areas but any city needs a range of accomodation. The main issue thoough, is distribution of wealth.
Sir Prised, if you want a distribution of wealth go and live in a communist country- if you can find one. I do not see why those who have accumulated "wealth" through their own efforts should subsidise those who have had different financial priorities.
Both my wife and I lived with our respective parents in the family homes, and saved up a substantial amount each before we even met. As a result we had a sensible house deposit, ensuring an affordable mortgage when we married and moved into our own property. We still enjoyed the sex and drugs and rock'n'roll in our youth; but in moderation.
[quote][p][bold]Sir Prised[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]bug eye[/bold] wrote: And how many council homes have the Greens built? Oh no too busy building state of the art student halls in prime city centre. Anyway what is wrong with a hot spot, a Monaco on the south coast, Brighton and hove is tiny compared to London where people travel miles to work. So if you cant afford the desirable parts of the city then buy in Peacehaven, Newhaven, Lancing etc. they are all still cheap and a short bus or train ride, that's what Londoners do. Clearly people working in the city or with childhood links should be on the housing list. The city is too small and restrictive for large developments, so why are the council not building on existing stock, adding extra floors to blocks or loft conversions to houses or converting houses into two flats. etc. It is unfortunate but you cant always live where you want, otherwise I would be in Mayfair.[/p][/quote]A 5 million population increase in 12 years is unsustainable at any building rate. What you are suggesting is what is happening in London, i.e. workers on relatively low incomes can't afford to live there and travel is expensive. We need to limit demand and maintain diverse communities. True there have always been expensive areas but any city needs a range of accomodation. The main issue thoough, is distribution of wealth.[/p][/quote]Sir Prised, if you want a distribution of wealth go and live in a communist country- if you can find one. I do not see why those who have accumulated "wealth" through their own efforts should subsidise those who have had different financial priorities. Both my wife and I lived with our respective parents in the family homes, and saved up a substantial amount each before we even met. As a result we had a sensible house deposit, ensuring an affordable mortgage when we married and moved into our own property. We still enjoyed the sex and drugs and rock'n'roll in our youth; but in moderation. Sussex jim
  • Score: 2

7:52am Mon 7 Jul 14

Juleyanne says...

Anyone who is lucky enough to own their own property is laughing.
The rest of us are stuck in the rent trap and live and insecure life from day to day with little or no hope of getting out of the carousel of renting. However, even having a rented place to live, makes us luckier than the poor sods who can't find anywhere to live or afford to even rent. There must be thousands of sofa surfers but they are still more fortunate than those who have resorted to a tent or are sleeping rough, which is growing at an alarming rate. If you have a roof tonight, count yourself one of the luckier ones!
Anyone who is lucky enough to own their own property is laughing. The rest of us are stuck in the rent trap and live and insecure life from day to day with little or no hope of getting out of the carousel of renting. However, even having a rented place to live, makes us luckier than the poor sods who can't find anywhere to live or afford to even rent. There must be thousands of sofa surfers but they are still more fortunate than those who have resorted to a tent or are sleeping rough, which is growing at an alarming rate. If you have a roof tonight, count yourself one of the luckier ones! Juleyanne
  • Score: 9

8:12am Mon 7 Jul 14

Maxwell's Ghost says...

Juleyane, why not get together with a few friends and buy a property. I did and that's how I got on the property ladder.
I rented for 15 years and then three of us got together and took on a mortgage and did the place up whole we lived in it. We treated it as a business move.
After a few years there was enough equity in the property for us to sell and split the proceeds to buy our own places.
Think like a buy to let landlord, but live like an owner.
Juleyane, why not get together with a few friends and buy a property. I did and that's how I got on the property ladder. I rented for 15 years and then three of us got together and took on a mortgage and did the place up whole we lived in it. We treated it as a business move. After a few years there was enough equity in the property for us to sell and split the proceeds to buy our own places. Think like a buy to let landlord, but live like an owner. Maxwell's Ghost
  • Score: 5

11:29am Mon 7 Jul 14

Ish1 says...

The acute housing problem will only be solved when more flats and houses are built.

However, the finger of blame should be directed at the planning department who are a nightmare to deal with as they place obstacles in the way they deal with planning applications.
The acute housing problem will only be solved when more flats and houses are built. However, the finger of blame should be directed at the planning department who are a nightmare to deal with as they place obstacles in the way they deal with planning applications. Ish1
  • Score: -1

6:45pm Mon 7 Jul 14

KarenT says...

I don't get someone in this editorial who said that if they can't afford to buy an appropriate flat they will end up "homeless". What about all the other possibilities in +between? Like, leaving Brighton? Perhaps moving farther east, like Eastbourne, Bexhill, Hastings? The UK is a BIG country! Maybe not as bit as the US for example, but still pretty big in terms of other options. Or leave the Southeast altogether! The prices in B&H are NOT going to come down, it just won't happen given lots of reasons that I won't bore everyone with. It's become more and more an extension of London and there are Londoners in their droves coming down here driving prices up, because they are priced out of London. That's not going to change, and I reckon B&H, like London, will be impervious to any housing bubble bursting. I relocated from London 10 years ago. I'd love to still be living in Hampstead like I was in the 90's, but hey ho, it ain't gonna happen! It's like someone in Hampstead saying, "I can't afford a flat here, so I'm going to end up homeless!" MOVE! I'm moving to Bexhill or Hastings in the new year, where I will be able to buy a flat for a FRACTION of what my current flat is worth. In fact I could buy a house there for what my flat is currently worth. Prices are not rising there like they are here - you can get so much more for your money. And Bexhill is even cheaper. Not really commutable to London, but that's why it's so cheap by comparison. Maybe not as salubrious as B&H, but that's life. Anyone who bought in B&H before prices went crazy is lucky, in that they will be coming away with a considerable amount of equity that will buy them something reasonable elsewhere with little or no mortgage. If you've not bought and are renting, then you can still rent a reasonable flat there for around £400 PCM. Like someone else commented here, I'd like to be living in Mayfair, or indeed Hampstead right now, but it's just tough luck. People have been historically relocating for hundreds of years due to local house prices rising. Stop moaning and, as Norman Tebbit once said, "Get on yer bike!" From Hampstead to Hastings... I just have to live with it and make the most of it.
I don't get someone in this editorial who said that if they can't afford to buy an appropriate flat they will end up "homeless". What about all the other possibilities in +between? Like, leaving Brighton? Perhaps moving farther east, like Eastbourne, Bexhill, Hastings? The UK is a BIG country! Maybe not as bit as the US for example, but still pretty big in terms of other options. Or leave the Southeast altogether! The prices in B&H are NOT going to come down, it just won't happen given lots of reasons that I won't bore everyone with. It's become more and more an extension of London and there are Londoners in their droves coming down here driving prices up, because they are priced out of London. That's not going to change, and I reckon B&H, like London, will be impervious to any housing bubble bursting. I relocated from London 10 years ago. I'd love to still be living in Hampstead like I was in the 90's, but hey ho, it ain't gonna happen! It's like someone in Hampstead saying, "I can't afford a flat here, so I'm going to end up homeless!" MOVE! I'm moving to Bexhill or Hastings in the new year, where I will be able to buy a flat for a FRACTION of what my current flat is worth. In fact I could buy a house there for what my flat is currently worth. Prices are not rising there like they are here - you can get so much more for your money. And Bexhill is even cheaper. Not really commutable to London, but that's why it's so cheap by comparison. Maybe not as salubrious as B&H, but that's life. Anyone who bought in B&H before prices went crazy is lucky, in that they will be coming away with a considerable amount of equity that will buy them something reasonable elsewhere with little or no mortgage. If you've not bought and are renting, then you can still rent a reasonable flat there for around £400 PCM. Like someone else commented here, I'd like to be living in Mayfair, or indeed Hampstead right now, but it's just tough luck. People have been historically relocating for hundreds of years due to local house prices rising. Stop moaning and, as Norman Tebbit once said, "Get on yer bike!" From Hampstead to Hastings... I just have to live with it and make the most of it. KarenT
  • Score: 4

6:58pm Mon 7 Jul 14

KarenT says...

Sir Prised wrote:
bug eye wrote:
And how many council homes have the Greens built? Oh no too busy building state of the art student halls in prime city centre. Anyway what is wrong with a hot spot, a Monaco on the south coast, Brighton and hove is tiny compared to London where people travel miles to work. So if you cant afford the desirable parts of the city then buy in Peacehaven, Newhaven, Lancing etc. they are all still cheap and a short bus or train ride, that's what Londoners do. Clearly people working in the city or with childhood links should be on the housing list. The city is too small and restrictive for large developments, so why are the council not building on existing stock, adding extra floors to blocks or loft conversions to houses or converting houses into two flats. etc. It is unfortunate but you cant always live where you want, otherwise I would be in Mayfair.
A 5 million population increase in 12 years is unsustainable at any building rate. What you are suggesting is what is happening in London, i.e. workers on relatively low incomes can't afford to live there and travel is expensive. We need to limit demand and maintain diverse communities. True there have always been expensive areas but any city needs a range of accomodation. The main issue thoough, is distribution of wealth.
So HOW precisely to you go about limiting demand and resdistributing wealth? How is that PRACTICALLY engineered? "Imagine all the people, living in peace, side by side, no divisions between wealth and poverty, the sun shines all the time, and all the leaves in Autumn fall in neat little piles and then just blow away altogether".... a bit like in Camelot. PULeeze!
[quote][p][bold]Sir Prised[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]bug eye[/bold] wrote: And how many council homes have the Greens built? Oh no too busy building state of the art student halls in prime city centre. Anyway what is wrong with a hot spot, a Monaco on the south coast, Brighton and hove is tiny compared to London where people travel miles to work. So if you cant afford the desirable parts of the city then buy in Peacehaven, Newhaven, Lancing etc. they are all still cheap and a short bus or train ride, that's what Londoners do. Clearly people working in the city or with childhood links should be on the housing list. The city is too small and restrictive for large developments, so why are the council not building on existing stock, adding extra floors to blocks or loft conversions to houses or converting houses into two flats. etc. It is unfortunate but you cant always live where you want, otherwise I would be in Mayfair.[/p][/quote]A 5 million population increase in 12 years is unsustainable at any building rate. What you are suggesting is what is happening in London, i.e. workers on relatively low incomes can't afford to live there and travel is expensive. We need to limit demand and maintain diverse communities. True there have always been expensive areas but any city needs a range of accomodation. The main issue thoough, is distribution of wealth.[/p][/quote]So HOW precisely to you go about limiting demand and resdistributing wealth? How is that PRACTICALLY engineered? "Imagine all the people, living in peace, side by side, no divisions between wealth and poverty, the sun shines all the time, and all the leaves in Autumn fall in neat little piles and then just blow away altogether".... a bit like in Camelot. PULeeze! KarenT
  • Score: 3

7:06pm Mon 7 Jul 14

KarenT says...

Sussex jim wrote:
Sir Prised wrote:
bug eye wrote:
And how many council homes have the Greens built? Oh no too busy building state of the art student halls in prime city centre. Anyway what is wrong with a hot spot, a Monaco on the south coast, Brighton and hove is tiny compared to London where people travel miles to work. So if you cant afford the desirable parts of the city then buy in Peacehaven, Newhaven, Lancing etc. they are all still cheap and a short bus or train ride, that's what Londoners do. Clearly people working in the city or with childhood links should be on the housing list. The city is too small and restrictive for large developments, so why are the council not building on existing stock, adding extra floors to blocks or loft conversions to houses or converting houses into two flats. etc. It is unfortunate but you cant always live where you want, otherwise I would be in Mayfair.
A 5 million population increase in 12 years is unsustainable at any building rate. What you are suggesting is what is happening in London, i.e. workers on relatively low incomes can't afford to live there and travel is expensive. We need to limit demand and maintain diverse communities. True there have always been expensive areas but any city needs a range of accomodation. The main issue thoough, is distribution of wealth.
Sir Prised, if you want a distribution of wealth go and live in a communist country- if you can find one. I do not see why those who have accumulated "wealth" through their own efforts should subsidise those who have had different financial priorities.
Both my wife and I lived with our respective parents in the family homes, and saved up a substantial amount each before we even met. As a result we had a sensible house deposit, ensuring an affordable mortgage when we married and moved into our own property. We still enjoyed the sex and drugs and rock'n'roll in our youth; but in moderation.
Unfortunately we live in a country where if you've worked hard and gone without for a long time to plan a future for yourself and your family you are considered part of the "bourgeoisie", and should have all of your fortune appropriated and redistributed, on your way to the guillotine!
[quote][p][bold]Sussex jim[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Sir Prised[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]bug eye[/bold] wrote: And how many council homes have the Greens built? Oh no too busy building state of the art student halls in prime city centre. Anyway what is wrong with a hot spot, a Monaco on the south coast, Brighton and hove is tiny compared to London where people travel miles to work. So if you cant afford the desirable parts of the city then buy in Peacehaven, Newhaven, Lancing etc. they are all still cheap and a short bus or train ride, that's what Londoners do. Clearly people working in the city or with childhood links should be on the housing list. The city is too small and restrictive for large developments, so why are the council not building on existing stock, adding extra floors to blocks or loft conversions to houses or converting houses into two flats. etc. It is unfortunate but you cant always live where you want, otherwise I would be in Mayfair.[/p][/quote]A 5 million population increase in 12 years is unsustainable at any building rate. What you are suggesting is what is happening in London, i.e. workers on relatively low incomes can't afford to live there and travel is expensive. We need to limit demand and maintain diverse communities. True there have always been expensive areas but any city needs a range of accomodation. The main issue thoough, is distribution of wealth.[/p][/quote]Sir Prised, if you want a distribution of wealth go and live in a communist country- if you can find one. I do not see why those who have accumulated "wealth" through their own efforts should subsidise those who have had different financial priorities. Both my wife and I lived with our respective parents in the family homes, and saved up a substantial amount each before we even met. As a result we had a sensible house deposit, ensuring an affordable mortgage when we married and moved into our own property. We still enjoyed the sex and drugs and rock'n'roll in our youth; but in moderation.[/p][/quote]Unfortunately we live in a country where if you've worked hard and gone without for a long time to plan a future for yourself and your family you are considered part of the "bourgeoisie", and should have all of your fortune appropriated and redistributed, on your way to the guillotine! KarenT
  • Score: 2

Comments are closed on this article.

Send us your news, pictures and videos

Most read stories

Local Info

Enter your postcode, town or place name

About cookies

We want you to enjoy your visit to our website. That's why we use cookies to enhance your experience. By staying on our website you agree to our use of cookies. Find out more about the cookies we use.

I agree