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Gang brag about attack on internet
11:00pm Sunday 25th March 2007
Comments (85)Sickening images have been brazenly posted on the internet by a teenage gang bragging about their violent behaviour.
They are part of a CCTV video of a vicious fight outside Churchill Square in Brighton to which the gang have added a rap soundtrack and a title sequence insulting the police and proudly claiming credit for the crimes.
In the three minutes of footage one hoodie can be seen attacking a group of teenagers with a flurry of punches. His gang then throw one of their victims to the floor and repeatedly kick him and stamp on his head.
The incident is yet another example of the growing presence of youth crime in Sussex. More than 10,000 ten to 17 year olds were arrested in the county last year.
It is not yet known how this gang of thugs were able to access the video, which was shot by a police CCTV camera.
A Sussex Police spokesman said yesterday that footage would not normally go outside the force.
He said: "We are investigating the way the video has been made public."
However, he added that if the prosecuting lawyers planned to use footage as evidence in court they were obliged to give access to the defence.
The video is one of a series of three posted on the Bebo and YouTube websites by someone with the username "Moulsboi". It is tagged with the words Moulsecoomb and Whitehawk, spelt incorrectly.
Each shows the disturbing and aggressive behaviour of the group, who call themselves Yung Ofenderz.
One of the videos had been reported to Sussex Police and was under investigation before the fight at Churchill Square took place.
All three videos were posted during February half term. One has been categorised as entertainment.
In the first, posted on February 11, the group of more than a dozen teenagers can be seen jumping up and down in the top floor of a bus chanting abuse.
The notes with the video, written in American-style gangsta rap slang, say the gang are on their way to town to "smash up emos and goths and any1 else who get in our way".
The Argus recently reported that Churchill Square is a regular hang-out for "emos", ordinarily peaceful teenagers who like emotional rock music.
In the second video the gang are again seen chanting abuse and drinking at Moulsecoomb railway station before aggressively surrounding a waiting member of the public.
Moulsboi claims in his notes that one of the gang later "bashed" the passenger and invites people to email him for the full footage.
The fight at Churchill Square, which took place at 7.45pm on Valentine's Day, February 14, is shown in the third video. The song Jus A Rascal by rapper Dizzee Rascal has been added as a soundtrack.
In the footage two groups of teens can be seen coming together by the steps close to Borders bookshop.
A shortish figure dressed in a grey hooded tracksuit can be seen at the edge of the group. He signals to his friends to put up the hoods on their tops before charging into the group throwing punches and kicks.
One victim is dragged to the ground and beaten, kicked and stamped on by members of his gang.
The hoodie then emerges and is given congratulatory hugs by his friends before the gang run away together.
Sussex Police said three people had been arrested following the fight and at least one had been charged and was expected to appear in court.
Brighton Pavilion MP David Lepper said he was disgusted at the actions of the gang.
He said: "They should throw the book at whoever has done this. I almost can't believe they have done it.
"It is not my place to say if anyone is guilty of violence. What they are clearly guilty of is making entertainment out of antisocial behaviour. It is disgraceful."
On a visit to Brighton and Hove in January, Prime Minister Tony Blair declared the city a Respect area, promising funding for projects to tackle antisocial behaviour. The city council will receive £400,000 for the work over the next two years.
YouTube and Bebo were unavailable to comment on the video yesterday.
Have you been a victim of crime? Leave your comments below.
Your Say YourThe Argus
Tony, Brighton says...
5:35am Mon 26 Mar 07
What do you expect with our invisible police ?
Churchill Square is just another no-go area & nobody gives a ****
Churchill Square is just another no-go area & nobody gives a ****
sue, Hove says...
7:07am Mon 26 Mar 07
This is what happens when the police blatantly ignore bad behaviour. When all discipline is taken away from teachers. And Parents do nothing to discipline their children but spend time in their self-centred activities. I will never forget the actions of a three year old tugging at his mother and saying talk to me. Needless to say, mother ignored her child and having banal conversations on her mobile phone. Another 14 year old asked me - why did my parents have me - they never soend any time with me - I was shocked he is a delightful young man who obviously feels unwanted. How sad. Until parents take responsibility fot their children - nothing will change.
Karim, Brighton says...
8:57am Mon 26 Mar 07
There should be a permanent police presence on the ground in this part of town.
paul, brighton says...
9:33am Mon 26 Mar 07
I think that the police needs to be in the centre of town at all times, this has happens lots of times, and to no that the oldery and members of the pubic does not feel safe in our city. they should be locked up and throw away the key.
K, Brighton says...
10:03am Mon 26 Mar 07
I was attacked by a group of teenagers about 3 years ago in North Street at 8.30pm on my way to work. When I reported it to the police, they phoned me back 3 days later and said they didn't want to know as they were not going to do anything about it, so would not log my complaint. There is not enough police presence on the streets of central Brighton, it's just going to get worse especailly when the pedestrianisation of New Road is completed, this will just be another area for trouble makers to meet and make it a no go area for law abiding citizens to go after dark.
rob, london says...
12:05pm Mon 26 Mar 07
surely the cause of the problem isnt the lack of policing, more the lack of moral standards by some parents.........
Jim, brighton says...
12:17pm Mon 26 Mar 07
CCTV is anything but secure or 'closed circuit' and accessible by anyone via various websites.
Not sure it is the fault of police at all, Government have set the targets and seek to manipulate the statistics to there own ends and seek to tell us what a wonderful job they are doing despite the evidence we see clearly with our own eyes.
Criminality is absolutely rife in our society now precisely because of under investment in police, education, social services and law enforcement.
Not sure it is the fault of police at all, Government have set the targets and seek to manipulate the statistics to there own ends and seek to tell us what a wonderful job they are doing despite the evidence we see clearly with our own eyes.
Criminality is absolutely rife in our society now precisely because of under investment in police, education, social services and law enforcement.
Glen, Brighton says...
12:32pm Mon 26 Mar 07
Wimps.
A Gold, Brighton says...
12:37pm Mon 26 Mar 07
Britain has become the dustbin of Europe. I agree with the first poster. Too many do gooders have been the cause of this. These 'boys' (animals) will be breeding before too long & God only knows what their offspring will turn out like. The MP's, T B.Liar & the decision makers dont have to catch a late bus or wait around at unmanned stations late at night like us grunts so they never see the grief we have to put up with on a day to day basis & the police are only interested in league tables. I'm living in your cesspit Mr B.Liar. What wuill you do about it? Hug a hoodie Cameron is no better...Its time for TOUGH LOVE. National Service anyone?
Peter, Brighton says...
1:54pm Mon 26 Mar 07
Parental responsibility is an integral part of bringing up children. What do the parents think when it's gone midnight and their kids aren't at home? Do they not wonder what mischief their darling kiddywinks are getting up to at that time of the evening? The nanny brigade have all but outlawed smacking (punching, kicking and beating is bad but smacking isn't child abuse)and this is the legacy of years of turning a blind eye.
When I venture into the city centre at the weekend I'm amazed at the lack of self - embarrassment or self respect that
people seem to have. They think nothing of shouting, dropping litter, acting in a completely unreasonable way but in their minds that's how they think you should act properly.
I'm counting the days until I can emigrate!
When I venture into the city centre at the weekend I'm amazed at the lack of self - embarrassment or self respect that
people seem to have. They think nothing of shouting, dropping litter, acting in a completely unreasonable way but in their minds that's how they think you should act properly.
I'm counting the days until I can emigrate!
Chris, Brighton says...
4:45pm Mon 26 Mar 07
This sickens me. I was attacked in Worthing four years ago just because I have long hair and don't dress in dodgy tracksuits.
I find it difficult and intimidating to enjoy the nightlife of Brighton because of the way I dress and the length of my hair because 'people' (and I use the term loosely) take offense and decide to cause trouble which severely limits the choices of night venues.
Tough love needs to be implemented. If a 'hoodie' attacks someone, catch them and beat them senseless. Eye for an eye.
It won't be long before the ordinary citizen retaliates and an all out war erupts on the streets of Brighton.
I find it difficult and intimidating to enjoy the nightlife of Brighton because of the way I dress and the length of my hair because 'people' (and I use the term loosely) take offense and decide to cause trouble which severely limits the choices of night venues.
Tough love needs to be implemented. If a 'hoodie' attacks someone, catch them and beat them senseless. Eye for an eye.
It won't be long before the ordinary citizen retaliates and an all out war erupts on the streets of Brighton.
Davrod, Hove says...
4:53pm Mon 26 Mar 07
What was the camers operator doing?? Do they not call police when violence erupts?? Chavs, nothing better to do than talk about burberry and smoke crack.
Red, Brighton says...
4:56pm Mon 26 Mar 07
I agree with people that we need to sort these scummy chavs out. They cause more hassle that they are worth and just tie up resources. People don't have a go at them because they all dress the same in there sporty rubbish, live and let live or kill or be killed.
Risky H Q, scoom says...
6:51pm Mon 26 Mar 07
we ant no scummy chavs were tru scoombers so **** off!!
A Gold, Brighton says...
7:27pm Mon 26 Mar 07
You're an embarrassment Master Risky (low) IQ. You're a product of a weak society, a flawed lefty social experiment gone wrong and minimal education. You lack respect for others so I assume you also lack respect for yourself and your family. You & your type only have one sorry messed up life to look forward to one way or another. Remember these words, I know you will. Theyll come back to haunt you in years to come. If you want to act hard, try the Army. Adios.
PS Dont forget to swear at me. Its all par for the course
PS Dont forget to swear at me. Its all par for the course
Ali, Brighton says...
8:39pm Mon 26 Mar 07
Risky H Q, Can you please tell me the diffrence between Chavs and True 'Scoombers'.
I thaught they were all the same thing!
I thaught they were all the same thing!
Lilian gish, worthing says...
8:47pm Mon 26 Mar 07
Welcome to Blairs socialist Utopia,the new labour project is near to the festering cess pitt it has yearned for us all to live in since do gooders infiltrated schools and town halls in the 70s,
I'm off to Australia before these vermin start to breed.
I'm off to Australia before these vermin start to breed.
dodgy, brighton says...
9:04pm Mon 26 Mar 07
Isn't it ironic that the same kind of things happened in Brighton in the 60's and 25 years later its a big film with music by the who .Giving the city some of the coool it has now!
Have we not got to just wait another 25 years for the film of these incidents?
Have we not got to just wait another 25 years for the film of these incidents?
Dan, Brighton says...
9:36pm Mon 26 Mar 07
Look Risky. I too am born & bred in 'Scoomb, Working class and lived mostly on the benfits system as a teenager. I HAD A CHOICE. That is my individual right, as it is yours. What you are doing is bringing your area 'the area you purport to be so proud of DOWN!' Do you think your neighbours & family respect your choice of path - why don't you ask them if you're so sure they will approve? ? In years to come you will come face to face with those who have suffered this sort of violence - 'god forbid' it be your wife, sister, mother, brother...child. It saddens me that so many have worked so hard to dispel the myths that surround Moulsecoomb, yet it is crushed by the obscenities you and others are so trivial about. I too suffered the same sort of violence in Central B'ton some time ago...but believe me when I say it stays with you even as an adult. You should take a trip to Africa, An AIDS hospice, a Romanian orphanage, even Great Ormond Street Hospital- you need to step back and look at the bigger picture instead of your little fishbowl... To even be a brightonian (which I used to be proud of) right now disgusts me.
John Doe, Brighton says...
10:52pm Mon 26 Mar 07
paul wrote:I agree with you totally. The law really needs to tackle these stains harder.
I think that the police needs to be in the centre of town at all times, this has happens lots of times, and to no that the oldery and members of the pubic does not feel safe in our city. they should be locked up and throw away the key.
rsowen, Brighton says...
10:57pm Mon 26 Mar 07
Britain is dying.
Nothing new - you all knew that already; you're simply blogging your way into dealing with it.
Blogs here and blogs there - but not an action to be seen.
Words are one thing, sirs, but actions quite another. The matter that should be under consideration is not WHAT should be done - I think we are all of a similar mind, although by no means identical, I'm sure - but rather, HOW it should be done.
The blogosphere is full, one might even say bursting, with those who lament the approaching success of euthanasing Great Britain by mediocrity and degeneration. It is, therefore, a primal source of strength for a political movement based around the principles of what made Britain Great.
I see three options -
1: Keep blogging, do nothing
2: Keep blogging, join a fourth
party e.g. UKIP and push up
its membership ( at least it
shares many of the same
sentiments )
3: Keep blogging, create a party.
Create a party? What madness is this?
It's not about votes; it's about the percentage of the vote. If you gentlemen, and others like you, translated their cynicism and dissatisfaction into participation in targeted political arenas ( targeted both in terms of location and time ), the proportion of the vote ( small though the absolute size of the vote may be ) held by us would carry us forward along the road to success.
I would welcome your thoughts on this, gentlemen - and even your supporting actions, if you feel inclined to exert more than your fingertips to revive Britain.
What do you say?
I am, right now, setting up an email address to collect opinion and/or action. The address is:
greater_britain@yahoo.co.uk
Looking forward to reclaiming a nation, and perhaps a decent future, ladies & gentlemen....
Yours
Sam Owen
Nothing new - you all knew that already; you're simply blogging your way into dealing with it.
Blogs here and blogs there - but not an action to be seen.
Words are one thing, sirs, but actions quite another. The matter that should be under consideration is not WHAT should be done - I think we are all of a similar mind, although by no means identical, I'm sure - but rather, HOW it should be done.
The blogosphere is full, one might even say bursting, with those who lament the approaching success of euthanasing Great Britain by mediocrity and degeneration. It is, therefore, a primal source of strength for a political movement based around the principles of what made Britain Great.
I see three options -
1: Keep blogging, do nothing
2: Keep blogging, join a fourth
party e.g. UKIP and push up
its membership ( at least it
shares many of the same
sentiments )
3: Keep blogging, create a party.
Create a party? What madness is this?
It's not about votes; it's about the percentage of the vote. If you gentlemen, and others like you, translated their cynicism and dissatisfaction into participation in targeted political arenas ( targeted both in terms of location and time ), the proportion of the vote ( small though the absolute size of the vote may be ) held by us would carry us forward along the road to success.
I would welcome your thoughts on this, gentlemen - and even your supporting actions, if you feel inclined to exert more than your fingertips to revive Britain.
What do you say?
I am, right now, setting up an email address to collect opinion and/or action. The address is:
greater_britain@yahoo.co.uk
Looking forward to reclaiming a nation, and perhaps a decent future, ladies & gentlemen....
Yours
Sam Owen
Bugenhagen, Brighton says...
11:28pm Mon 26 Mar 07
Why is our council so bloody useless? I swear violence and harrasment in public has increased over the past 15 years I have been in this city.
Please stop building new libraries and playgrounds to distract the youths because I do not think a book is going to distract them from when they are beating your son or even raping your daughter.
For the love of God and the good of the city put more protection our streets. I do not want to be scared at night in my own city.
Please stop building new libraries and playgrounds to distract the youths because I do not think a book is going to distract them from when they are beating your son or even raping your daughter.
For the love of God and the good of the city put more protection our streets. I do not want to be scared at night in my own city.
I.L., USA says...
11:31pm Mon 26 Mar 07
This is basically what happens what happens when some kids parents don't get the belt after them and get them in side the home, at a reasonable hour. Especially when your child is friends with people like that.
G, Brighton says...
11:53pm Mon 26 Mar 07
As a working class east-Brightonian myself, I completely agree with Dan's comment. Unfortunately, that's only because I am intelligent enough to understand it and unfortunately these people are not. There is no reasoning whatsoever with people like this. I'm intrigued to know what goes through their minds. To be that inhumane and incapable of considering the feelings of others must require a completely different consciousness in every aspect of life. It's a cliché, but nevertheless true that the majority of the blame lies with the parents. The kind of parents that are more interested in their own self-gratification, be it with booze, drugs, material things, television etc., than providing their kids with moral guidance, patience and inspiration. The kind of parents who think that nurturing their kids means buying them a nike tracksuit, a mobile phone and an ear-piercing as soon as they're old enough to walk. There needs to be a radical new strategy that targets the parents of anti-social children, involving fines for the well off and benefit withdrawal for those less well off.
Tony, Brighton says...
8:30am Tue 27 Mar 07
Yes, sounds like a good idea. Take away cash from the pockets of parents.
Like we have taken away the right to punish. Kids cant be 'grounded', it infrindges on human rights. They cant be smacked, its child abuse. You tell me what to do when your child does not arrive at 9.30pm as you asked? Drive around? find them? force them into your car? oh, nope, cant do that...its child abduction. What ways have been left to parents...have a little talk with them. Big Deal!
Its society to blame for this, and who are society? Us, each and every one of us.
Sites like Bebo are just as responsible, with no controls. Kids hide behind the screen, make statements and past judgement, often with foul abuse, then wonder why there is a response they dont like.
And for the record, I understand that Risky HQ is the name of a group of music makers in East Brighton. They were spurned to music by courses run by the local authorities. Unfortantly, the 'glory' of this has rubbed off on others who dont know anything about music apart from how to download it to a phone! The name is now worn as a badge, not representative at all of its original intention.
Like we have taken away the right to punish. Kids cant be 'grounded', it infrindges on human rights. They cant be smacked, its child abuse. You tell me what to do when your child does not arrive at 9.30pm as you asked? Drive around? find them? force them into your car? oh, nope, cant do that...its child abduction. What ways have been left to parents...have a little talk with them. Big Deal!
Its society to blame for this, and who are society? Us, each and every one of us.
Sites like Bebo are just as responsible, with no controls. Kids hide behind the screen, make statements and past judgement, often with foul abuse, then wonder why there is a response they dont like.
And for the record, I understand that Risky HQ is the name of a group of music makers in East Brighton. They were spurned to music by courses run by the local authorities. Unfortantly, the 'glory' of this has rubbed off on others who dont know anything about music apart from how to download it to a phone! The name is now worn as a badge, not representative at all of its original intention.
Disgusted, Ex of Brighton says...
10:29am Tue 27 Mar 07
According to the Argus of 14th March 4 little scumbags aged 15-17 have just been sent down for between 4-6 months and 2 slightly older ones are being sentenced on 20 April.
Lets get this right. They were attacking Austrian students not other gangs. Very brave indeed!
And also perhaps all this criticism of the police/council in this instance is misplaced as they have been banged up. Not the police's fault its for such a short time.
Just a little surprised the author of this article didnt explain all this in his article above.
Lets get this right. They were attacking Austrian students not other gangs. Very brave indeed!
And also perhaps all this criticism of the police/council in this instance is misplaced as they have been banged up. Not the police's fault its for such a short time.
Just a little surprised the author of this article didnt explain all this in his article above.
Chris, Brighton says...
12:32pm Tue 27 Mar 07
Risky H Q wrote:Two generations of my family are from Moulsecoomb. Two generations of hard working, peaceful, respectable members of society.
we ant no scummy chavs were tru scoombers so **** off!!
Don't even dare to try and use your surroundings as justification for yobbish behaviour.
Miscreants like yourself need to be dealt with in the harshest manner applicable by law.
Jim Lewes, brighton says...
6:44pm Tue 27 Mar 07
Disgusted wrote:Well said!! Swift justice in action.
According to the Argus of 14th March 4 little scumbags aged 15-17 have just been sent down for between 4-6 months and 2 slightly older ones are being sentenced on 20 April. Lets get this right. They were attacking Austrian students not other gangs. Very brave indeed! And also perhaps all this criticism of the police/council in this instance is misplaced as they have been banged up. Not the police's fault its for such a short time. Just a little surprised the author of this article didnt explain all this in his article above.
Why have The Argus neglected to report this in the article above?
Margaret, worcester says...
9:19pm Tue 27 Mar 07
Yobs today are the scourge of Britain, primarily because successive governments have totally destroyed the right of self-defence !
Fear of teenage violence is now so widespread that over 1.7 million Britons dare not go out after nightfall because of teenage gangs !
According to Tony Blair himself, the criminal justice system is "utterly useless" in protecting the public from yobs !
And the reason is simple - they do not fear the law - they hold it in total contempt !
For decades criminally inept liberal "do-gooders" who care nothing about the consequences of their lunatic agendas have removed the concept of punishment from the criminal justice system !
The results of their policies can be seen everywhere - mindless thugs roaming the streets looking for innocent victims to attack, elderly people brutally beaten or even murdered in their own homes, and the final obscenity - children who have never known a day's discipline in their lives murdering other children !
It seems almost unbelievable that such scum should be allowed to ruin the lives of so many people, but that is the reality of Britain today !
The so-called "justice" system has become totally fixated on the rights of criminals - the law which is supposed to protect the innocent and vulnerable has instead made the thugs untouchable!
So much so that any attempt to stand up for one's own rights is met with persecution and prosecution by incompetent and gutless police who would rather defend the yobs than arrest them !
For the criminals, thugs and yobs who infest our society there are no deterrents, no restraints and no punishments !
They can commit crime after crime after crime, yet still walk free from courts, laughing at a system which criminalises and punishes their victims, and rewards thugs for being thugs !
And the government, entrusted with the protection of its citizens has renaged on that trust, leaving innocent people defenceless against an ever increasing tide of lawlessness.
It is time to put a stop to it - once and for all !
It is time to take back your freedom and your rights, time to stop the yobs from wrecking your lives, time to stop living in fear, time to stop being a victim - TIME TO FIGHT BACK !
FIGHT BACK AGAINST THE YOBS - JOIN THE NATIONAL VIGILANTE ORGANISATION TODAY !
http://www.navigor.org.uk
Fear of teenage violence is now so widespread that over 1.7 million Britons dare not go out after nightfall because of teenage gangs !
According to Tony Blair himself, the criminal justice system is "utterly useless" in protecting the public from yobs !
And the reason is simple - they do not fear the law - they hold it in total contempt !
For decades criminally inept liberal "do-gooders" who care nothing about the consequences of their lunatic agendas have removed the concept of punishment from the criminal justice system !
The results of their policies can be seen everywhere - mindless thugs roaming the streets looking for innocent victims to attack, elderly people brutally beaten or even murdered in their own homes, and the final obscenity - children who have never known a day's discipline in their lives murdering other children !
It seems almost unbelievable that such scum should be allowed to ruin the lives of so many people, but that is the reality of Britain today !
The so-called "justice" system has become totally fixated on the rights of criminals - the law which is supposed to protect the innocent and vulnerable has instead made the thugs untouchable!
So much so that any attempt to stand up for one's own rights is met with persecution and prosecution by incompetent and gutless police who would rather defend the yobs than arrest them !
For the criminals, thugs and yobs who infest our society there are no deterrents, no restraints and no punishments !
They can commit crime after crime after crime, yet still walk free from courts, laughing at a system which criminalises and punishes their victims, and rewards thugs for being thugs !
And the government, entrusted with the protection of its citizens has renaged on that trust, leaving innocent people defenceless against an ever increasing tide of lawlessness.
It is time to put a stop to it - once and for all !
It is time to take back your freedom and your rights, time to stop the yobs from wrecking your lives, time to stop living in fear, time to stop being a victim - TIME TO FIGHT BACK !
FIGHT BACK AGAINST THE YOBS - JOIN THE NATIONAL VIGILANTE ORGANISATION TODAY !
http://www.navigor.org.uk
glen, brighton says...
11:14pm Tue 27 Mar 07
Wow you are so tough your kind was taken out by 1 ex boxer which i thought was great it actually made my year. Let this continue.
emzy, brighton says...
3:36pm Thu 29 Mar 07
im not bein funny but all these mugs need locking away and not lettin out.on one of the vids you can see one of the victims bein kicked in the head and dragged around like some sort of rag doll.it disgusts me.my mate was attacked by a group of lads like this on sat night and to be honest it makes me sick.all people like that are just making themselves out to be what they typically are,...council house plebs who find pleasure in other peoples pain.you all deserve what you get mate i hope they throw the book at you.im a scoomber and its nothing to be proud of.as its jumped up little **** like this that give my estate a bad name.
Dom, says...
9:37pm Thu 29 Mar 07
A dozen police officers, max! (on a good day)patrolling a town the size of Brighton, in a force that has a £10 million short fall to make up, and yet every one always expect the police to be right on the door step when crimes are committed. Get a grip , dont blame the police, blame the yobs and the **** foot society we live in today. Lack of discipline (a cliche I know) but they are literally running riot. The public are afraid to stand up to these yobs because they fear they are just as likely to end up in the box explaining why they used force to defend themselves and others, its the same for the police. Every one's afraid of the system that's supposed to protect them. The police put them in front of the courts and its the court sentencing thats a joke when it comes to the growing population of scum festering in our towns.
ledge, brighton says...
7:39pm Fri 30 Mar 07
o dear! com on now dis is nuthin stuff like dis happens everyday except people get the **** kicked out o them this was a provoked fight they didnt start it 4 no reason all u talkin bout britain diein. yh britain is dien cuz o war in iraq n ur boverd about summin as little as this god sake!!!
A Gold, Brighton says...
8:38pm Fri 30 Mar 07
ledge wrote:What did that young man say? Something about Burberry?
o dear! com on now dis is nuthin stuff like dis happens everyday except people get the **** kicked out o them this was a provoked fight they didnt start it 4 no reason all u talkin bout britain diein. yh britain is dien cuz o war in iraq n ur boverd about summin as little as this god sake!!!
Andrew Robertson, Brighton says...
12:36pm Sat 31 Mar 07
Welcome to Labour's Britain - lawlessness with no fear of being caught or even if your are you will barely get punished?
Police Officers who are forced to sit at desks and fill in reams of paperwork for the Labour Home Office.
One officer in Brighton has spoken out against it.
Visit his website to see what he says
www.realpolicing.co.uk
Police Officers who are forced to sit at desks and fill in reams of paperwork for the Labour Home Office.
One officer in Brighton has spoken out against it.
Visit his website to see what he says
www.realpolicing.co.uk
givenup, says...
12:18am Sun 1 Apr 07
I am a teacher in a special school for kids like this and I am confused God knows what the kids are like. I am sick of this KIDS FIRST attitude. They actually dont respect themselves or others, cos they have had any sense of responsibility taken away from them. The basic lesson we are meant to teach nowadays is "that was very silly throwing that brick through the window little johnny wasnt it... but what a good throw you did, well done."
Oh and just to aggrevate anyone further. I have been privy to our local councils spending to solve this problem. It aint funny. Not when our C/T bills are so high.
3.5 million pounds last year by B&H city council to transport kids with learning difficulties to school by taxi. The ones I work with arent like my daughter who has down syndrome, she needs that definitely, but these kids I teach most of them spend weekends hanging on buses etc... Well able to get home. Problem is nobody gives them the responsibility.
God help us with what we are teaching our kids.
Oh and just to aggrevate anyone further. I have been privy to our local councils spending to solve this problem. It aint funny. Not when our C/T bills are so high.
3.5 million pounds last year by B&H city council to transport kids with learning difficulties to school by taxi. The ones I work with arent like my daughter who has down syndrome, she needs that definitely, but these kids I teach most of them spend weekends hanging on buses etc... Well able to get home. Problem is nobody gives them the responsibility.
God help us with what we are teaching our kids.
Disgusted, Ex of Brighton says...
10:07am Sun 1 Apr 07
ledge wrote:Your name should be Illedge little boy. Still, that comment's probably gone straight over your hooded head.
o dear! com on now dis is nuthin stuff like dis happens everyday except people get the **** kicked out o them this was a provoked fight they didnt start it 4 no reason all u talkin bout britain diein. yh britain is dien cuz o war in iraq n ur boverd about summin as little as this god sake!!!
"Stuff like this happens every day." That's exactly why all these completely frustrated law abiding people posting on this link are so frustrated. Its not meant to be the norm you fool.
A provoked fight?! What, did one of those naive Austrian students dare to stand up for himself when being badmouthed by one of the tough boys. It's called bullying, plain and simple.
Andy, Bury says...
1:51pm Sun 1 Apr 07
Navigor = BNP. Don't be taken in by these idiot crackpots.
A Gold, Brighton says...
8:16pm Sun 1 Apr 07
Andy. Ive had a look at their site. Are these 'idiot crackpots' any worse than those who let yobs run wild in public? Sorry mate but Im just a normal Joe Public type & none of the established political parties are doing what I want them to do in respect to crime & law & order.
I want my kids to be safe, I want my oap mum to be safe, I want visitors to my city to be safe as they go about their business.
If not 'Navigor = BNP' who do you suggest I turn to?
Its easy to name call & be dismissive but much harder to come up with viable solutions.
You're probably one of the good guys Andy & full of good intentions but the mood of law abiding people, the silent majority in this country is changing.
The road to **** is paved with good intentions.
I want my kids to be safe, I want my oap mum to be safe, I want visitors to my city to be safe as they go about their business.
If not 'Navigor = BNP' who do you suggest I turn to?
Its easy to name call & be dismissive but much harder to come up with viable solutions.
You're probably one of the good guys Andy & full of good intentions but the mood of law abiding people, the silent majority in this country is changing.
The road to **** is paved with good intentions.
Andy, Bury says...
8:52pm Sun 1 Apr 07
A Gold,
I live in a working class area which has it's fair share of crime. But I do not think the answer is to become a vigilante - to take the law into my own hands. Of course Navigor steers a path which, bizarrely, seems to steer clear of actually telling people to form vigilante groups and go kick in a few "yobs". I say bizarrely but, of course, they have to tread their own fine line regarding the law.
More worryingly is the apparent link to the BNP (have a google). They seem to be preying on the fear of crime and people's frustration to fuel support for that odious bunch. Looks like a front organisation, one of a number used by the BNP.
I have kids. I and they don't live in fear. We don't take the bait from idiots like Navigor who like to raise the fear of crime, rather than quell it. And just what is Navigor advocating? Summary justice? Would want those idiots determining who's innocent and who's guilty.
And I want my kids to grow up in a land free of racist neo-nazis.
I think that's fair enough.
A final point. I don't sit back and just name call. I actually talk with and support the police, lobby my council to get things done - and yes that can be frustrating at times. But it's better than picking up a baseball bat and thinking I'm Dirty Harry.
I live in a working class area which has it's fair share of crime. But I do not think the answer is to become a vigilante - to take the law into my own hands. Of course Navigor steers a path which, bizarrely, seems to steer clear of actually telling people to form vigilante groups and go kick in a few "yobs". I say bizarrely but, of course, they have to tread their own fine line regarding the law.
More worryingly is the apparent link to the BNP (have a google). They seem to be preying on the fear of crime and people's frustration to fuel support for that odious bunch. Looks like a front organisation, one of a number used by the BNP.
I have kids. I and they don't live in fear. We don't take the bait from idiots like Navigor who like to raise the fear of crime, rather than quell it. And just what is Navigor advocating? Summary justice? Would want those idiots determining who's innocent and who's guilty.
And I want my kids to grow up in a land free of racist neo-nazis.
I think that's fair enough.
A final point. I don't sit back and just name call. I actually talk with and support the police, lobby my council to get things done - and yes that can be frustrating at times. But it's better than picking up a baseball bat and thinking I'm Dirty Harry.
Albert Hurwood, says...
9:42am Mon 2 Apr 07
Dear Andy,
You obiously have not looked at our website very closely.
At no time does it claim to be linked, and neither does it have any affiliation to the BNP !
And how do you think you will stop crime which is now totally out of control?
Cower in your house and hope the thugs won't attack you ?
"Work" with a police force which daily becomes part of the problem, not the solution ?
Dream On !
The National Vigilante Organisation was set up to bring justice back to this country.
And we are growing every day - as more and more people realise that this country has totally given up on fighting crime.
And if you want proof of that, just read the newspapers !
www.navigor.org.uk
You obiously have not looked at our website very closely.
At no time does it claim to be linked, and neither does it have any affiliation to the BNP !
And how do you think you will stop crime which is now totally out of control?
Cower in your house and hope the thugs won't attack you ?
"Work" with a police force which daily becomes part of the problem, not the solution ?
Dream On !
The National Vigilante Organisation was set up to bring justice back to this country.
And we are growing every day - as more and more people realise that this country has totally given up on fighting crime.
And if you want proof of that, just read the newspapers !
www.navigor.org.uk
Andy, Bury says...
2:26pm Mon 2 Apr 07
Albert,
Just because you don't mention a link to the BNP, doesn't mean there isn't one does it. For those that doubt the suggestion, have a play with Google. And, of course, the BNP is partial to a front organisation or two.
Crime is totally out of control? No it's not. Blokes like you would like people to believe that because it suits your agenda. Of course newspapers report the more horrific cases - as they have done since the days of the penny dreadful. That does not, however, mean the end of the world is nigh. And you could of course change your newspaper to one that has less of an obssession - I know your favourite national read and it's hysterical and often inaccurate repoorting is not one to lower your blood pressure.
Do I cower at home? No, because I do not live in fear - although I am concerned about the rise of far right idiots and the trouble they might cause. As I should be.
And tell me Albert, just what is the purpose of youyr crackpot outfit? You call yourself a vigilante organisation - so are you actually advocating vigilante action? Or are you just culliung email addresses for other purposes?
Just because you don't mention a link to the BNP, doesn't mean there isn't one does it. For those that doubt the suggestion, have a play with Google. And, of course, the BNP is partial to a front organisation or two.
Crime is totally out of control? No it's not. Blokes like you would like people to believe that because it suits your agenda. Of course newspapers report the more horrific cases - as they have done since the days of the penny dreadful. That does not, however, mean the end of the world is nigh. And you could of course change your newspaper to one that has less of an obssession - I know your favourite national read and it's hysterical and often inaccurate repoorting is not one to lower your blood pressure.
Do I cower at home? No, because I do not live in fear - although I am concerned about the rise of far right idiots and the trouble they might cause. As I should be.
And tell me Albert, just what is the purpose of youyr crackpot outfit? You call yourself a vigilante organisation - so are you actually advocating vigilante action? Or are you just culliung email addresses for other purposes?
Andy, Bury says...
2:42pm Mon 2 Apr 07
Just to avoid confusion, couple of dear old Albert Hurwood's posts which were attached to a story in the SWondon Advertiser:
Voice of Sense (lol) the choice is NOT between Labour and the BNP - the choice is between slavery and freedom - slavery or the BNP !
No I don't come from Swindon - I come from Corby - perhaps you remember Corby?
It was a place slammed by New Labour for being "too white and too British"!
And because of that 70 jobs are being moved to Leicestershire where they are certainly NOT too white!
LET's hope that Swindon is awash with ethnic majorities or your job prospects are zilch!
No BNP sympathies there eh Albert? Do you not think as an alleged seeker of justice you should be a wee bit more honest?
Voice of Sense (lol) the choice is NOT between Labour and the BNP - the choice is between slavery and freedom - slavery or the BNP !
No I don't come from Swindon - I come from Corby - perhaps you remember Corby?
It was a place slammed by New Labour for being "too white and too British"!
And because of that 70 jobs are being moved to Leicestershire where they are certainly NOT too white!
LET's hope that Swindon is awash with ethnic majorities or your job prospects are zilch!
No BNP sympathies there eh Albert? Do you not think as an alleged seeker of justice you should be a wee bit more honest?
A Gold, Brighton says...
12:31am today Tue 3 Apr 07
Andy wrote:Andy, You still havent given me a viable option for when it comes to polling day.
A Gold, I live in a working class area which has it's fair share of crime. But I do not think the answer is to become a vigilante - to take the law into my own hands. Of course Navigor steers a path which, bizarrely, seems to steer clear of actually telling people to form vigilante groups and go kick in a few "yobs". I say bizarrely but, of course, they have to tread their own fine line regarding the law. More worryingly is the apparent link to the BNP (have a google). They seem to be preying on the fear of crime and people's frustration to fuel support for that odious bunch. Looks like a front organisation, one of a number used by the BNP. I have kids. I and they don't live in fear. We don't take the bait from idiots like Navigor who like to raise the fear of crime, rather than quell it. And just what is Navigor advocating? Summary justice? Would want those idiots determining who's innocent and who's guilty. And I want my kids to grow up in a land free of racist neo-nazis. I think that's fair enough. A final point. I don't sit back and just name call. I actually talk with and support the police, lobby my council to get things done - and yes that can be frustrating at times. But it's better than picking up a baseball bat and thinking I'm Dirty Harry.
Alberts organisation may not be perfect but they seem to have the wotsits to be doing something about it.
Over the last 5 years my daughter has been shot by an air rifle, my girlfriends son has been nutted & my nephew set about by a gang of chavs & the police have been able to do very little about any of it.
All the while the politicians stick their heads in the sand & their fat pay cheque in the bank nothing will change.
Every town now has a gang of hoodies exuding an air of menace and people, especially the old are frightened to leave their homes after dark & it aint right mate.
Until recently my politics have been left of centre. John Smith would have made a brilliant leader but the current lot are only interested in league tables & figures. The police now have 2 hands tied behind their backs, the courts are letting them down by dishing out silly sentences & their morale must be at an all time low. When you have your meetings with the police, how many times does the word 'resources' come up? Its funny how I never hear it when we're getting ready to fight a war against a country full of people who aint done me any harm.
I want one of the main parties to say they will be tough on crime & tough on the causes of crime & BLOOMIN WELL MEAN IT. But they wont because sadly in this PC world they aint got the guts.
Andy, Bury says...
9:25am Tue 3 Apr 07
Albert's organisation "may not be perfect"? The BNP is far from perfect. And you say they have the "wotsits". What precisely do you think they're going to do? No doubt paediatricians better watch out for fear of confused atack. Are you really thinking its a good idea to give these nutters the keys to summary justice?
I agree on John Smith - but do you think he'd have given these barmpots the time of day. You think he would have played to a BNP crowd?
I share your frustrations re who to vote for. But people need to get more involved in communities and work with and support the police. Vigilantism only makes the police's job harder 0 and let's be clear, Navigor is anti-police (it's the ploice farce apparently). Bear in mind too the BNP's prediction of civil unrest which it plans to exploit. Could attempts to undermine the criminal justice system be a part of that less than cunning plan?
Please do not be taken in.
I agree on John Smith - but do you think he'd have given these barmpots the time of day. You think he would have played to a BNP crowd?
I share your frustrations re who to vote for. But people need to get more involved in communities and work with and support the police. Vigilantism only makes the police's job harder 0 and let's be clear, Navigor is anti-police (it's the ploice farce apparently). Bear in mind too the BNP's prediction of civil unrest which it plans to exploit. Could attempts to undermine the criminal justice system be a part of that less than cunning plan?
Please do not be taken in.
A Gold, Brighton says...
12:10pm Tue 3 Apr 07
John Smith wouldnt have needed to give extremists the time of day. I dont think we'd have arrived at this crossroads we now face under him.
The balance has gone too far in favour of the bad guys & it needs to be brought back into some kind of balance by the main parties. If they refuse to address the problems we now face, the far right will gather more & more support. Its a fact of life.
If someone comes knocking on my door before the elections & tells me they WILL introduce stiffer penalties for criminals & muggers who are making my life just that little bit harder than it needs to be. If they say theyll have more police on the streets instead of filling out 30 forms per arrest, if they say my streets will be safer to walk at night, I'll probably vote for them.
The no tolerance stance in New York is paying dividends & they aint an extremist regime so why cant our politicians do similar? It can be done if the will is there.
All I want is safety and a return to the days of respect people had for each other & something done about these jackals (top of the thread) who prey on the vulnerable in society (sorry, Im starting to sound boring) I no longer care which party it is.
Ive had a gutful.
The balance has gone too far in favour of the bad guys & it needs to be brought back into some kind of balance by the main parties. If they refuse to address the problems we now face, the far right will gather more & more support. Its a fact of life.
If someone comes knocking on my door before the elections & tells me they WILL introduce stiffer penalties for criminals & muggers who are making my life just that little bit harder than it needs to be. If they say theyll have more police on the streets instead of filling out 30 forms per arrest, if they say my streets will be safer to walk at night, I'll probably vote for them.
The no tolerance stance in New York is paying dividends & they aint an extremist regime so why cant our politicians do similar? It can be done if the will is there.
All I want is safety and a return to the days of respect people had for each other & something done about these jackals (top of the thread) who prey on the vulnerable in society (sorry, Im starting to sound boring) I no longer care which party it is.
Ive had a gutful.
Andy, Bury says...
12:23pm Tue 3 Apr 07
We have record prison numbers and yet falling crime (by both accounting methods 0 recorded crime and the British Crime Survey which records people's experience of crime, reported or not). That's not to say there aren't issues. But the the rhetoric espoused by the media is empty; all "the PC brigade this" and "the Human Rights Act that" which is bunkum, but readily seized by the Right to promote ots pernicious agenda.
And if you are frustrated ask yourself if the BNP is really going to ease them? Will self appointed vigilante grous really make the streets safer or, in fact, mean more and more thugs out their seeking their particular form of justice.
Great stor in Manchester about a nbloke called Taff who has helped turn around an estate by getting the whole community behind the residents' association and working with the police and other agencies to tackle anti-social behaviour. I prefer that model to one of far right extremists setting themselves up as vigilantes.
And if you are frustrated ask yourself if the BNP is really going to ease them? Will self appointed vigilante grous really make the streets safer or, in fact, mean more and more thugs out their seeking their particular form of justice.
Great stor in Manchester about a nbloke called Taff who has helped turn around an estate by getting the whole community behind the residents' association and working with the police and other agencies to tackle anti-social behaviour. I prefer that model to one of far right extremists setting themselves up as vigilantes.
Andy, Bury says...
12:25pm Tue 3 Apr 07
We have record prison numbers and yet falling crime (by both accounting methods - recorded crime and the British Crime Survey which records people's experience of crime, reported or not; cue rubbishing of a massive survey of 50,000 people's experiences which is the widely preferred method of counting crime). That's not to say there aren't issues. But the the rhetoric espoused by the media is empty; all "the PC brigade this" and "the Human Rights Act that" which is bunkum, but readily seized by the Right to promote ots pernicious agenda.
And if you are frustrated ask yourself if the BNP is really going to ease them? Will self appointed vigilante grous really make the streets safer or, in fact, mean more and more thugs out their seeking their particular form of justice.
Great stor in Manchester about a nbloke called Taff who has helped turn around an estate by getting the whole community behind the residents' association and working with the police and other agencies to tackle anti-social behaviour. I prefer that model to one of far right extremists setting themselves up as vigilantes.
And if you are frustrated ask yourself if the BNP is really going to ease them? Will self appointed vigilante grous really make the streets safer or, in fact, mean more and more thugs out their seeking their particular form of justice.
Great stor in Manchester about a nbloke called Taff who has helped turn around an estate by getting the whole community behind the residents' association and working with the police and other agencies to tackle anti-social behaviour. I prefer that model to one of far right extremists setting themselves up as vigilantes.
A Gold, Brighton says...
9:54pm Tue 3 Apr 07
Hey Andy, good luck to you & good luck to Taff. I'd rather that model too but surely the politicians should be leading from the front & not letting us grunts sort it out for ourselves.
The official crime figures are massaged & bloated, ask any serving copper off the record on the beat (if you see one). Its all a game of figures & league tables. I dont read many papers (only this one really for the local news) so I aint too influenced by the media but I know what I see with my own eyes. I know what Ive experienced.
The prisons are full of repeat offenders who do the minimum time. If it was proper terms they were serving, I doubt they'd be in a hurry back. Maybe prison is an improvement on their normal home environment?
Anyway mate. I'll mull it over between now & the next elections but I have to admit right now it is top of my agenda.
Take care fella & good luck.
The official crime figures are massaged & bloated, ask any serving copper off the record on the beat (if you see one). Its all a game of figures & league tables. I dont read many papers (only this one really for the local news) so I aint too influenced by the media but I know what I see with my own eyes. I know what Ive experienced.
The prisons are full of repeat offenders who do the minimum time. If it was proper terms they were serving, I doubt they'd be in a hurry back. Maybe prison is an improvement on their normal home environment?
Anyway mate. I'll mull it over between now & the next elections but I have to admit right now it is top of my agenda.
Take care fella & good luck.
ben, says...
1:08am Fri 6 Apr 07
Andy what do you mean about anti police?
THIS is what they say about a vicious attack on a young police officer:
"Thugs who left PC Daniel Coffill brain damaged for life will be released in just 3-5 years ! Daniel Coffill and ParentsA Metropolitan PC, Daniel Coffill, who had just finished his police probationary period, was leaving a Bromley night club when two youths asked him for a light for a cannabis joint.
When he refused they beat him so savagely that he will remain in a Persistant Vegetative State for the rest of his life and needs constant 24 hour attention ! Full story here)
The two thugs responsible, teenagers Daniel-Lance Samuels and Jack Turner, were sentenced to 8 and 9 years respectively for GBH, and told they would also serve 4 years on licence when they were released, so they could be sent back to jail if they re-offended.
That sentence alone was an insult to a ruined life, but when it was appealed the "protect a thug" mentality of our obscenely useless judicial system kicked in at full strength, the sentences were called "unduly excessive" and cut to 6 and 7 years - which means they could be out in just 3 years - AND they would NOT be on licence - in other words free and clear for ruining a man's life !
THEY walk free in 3 years - and Daniel Coffill and his parents - who will now have to care for him for life - receive the TRUE life sentence !
No wonder so many thugs simply laugh at both the law and the pathetic victim-hating judges who bend over backwards to show their "touchy-feely" credentials for any piece of scum who come up before them !
They couldn't care less for victims - victims like PC Coffill who cannot talk, breathes through a hole in his throat and is fed through a tube in his stomach - or victims like his mother Margaret, now 50, who has had to give up her job as an office manager and convert the sitting room of her Maidstone home into a bedroom for her injured son.
Mrs Justice Linda Dobbs, who allowed the appeals, said: "We're mindful of the devastating impact this incident has had, both on the victim and on his family."
But not mindful enough to refuse the appeal or give a **** about the fact that when they support the scum who did this to Daniel Coffill they themselves are WORSE than that scum !
DON'T LET THEM GET AWAY WITH IT - JOIN NAVIGOR TODAY !"
NOTHING anti-police about that just anti thugs and a justice system which allows them to flourish!
THIS is what they say about a vicious attack on a young police officer:
"Thugs who left PC Daniel Coffill brain damaged for life will be released in just 3-5 years ! Daniel Coffill and ParentsA Metropolitan PC, Daniel Coffill, who had just finished his police probationary period, was leaving a Bromley night club when two youths asked him for a light for a cannabis joint.
When he refused they beat him so savagely that he will remain in a Persistant Vegetative State for the rest of his life and needs constant 24 hour attention ! Full story here)
The two thugs responsible, teenagers Daniel-Lance Samuels and Jack Turner, were sentenced to 8 and 9 years respectively for GBH, and told they would also serve 4 years on licence when they were released, so they could be sent back to jail if they re-offended.
That sentence alone was an insult to a ruined life, but when it was appealed the "protect a thug" mentality of our obscenely useless judicial system kicked in at full strength, the sentences were called "unduly excessive" and cut to 6 and 7 years - which means they could be out in just 3 years - AND they would NOT be on licence - in other words free and clear for ruining a man's life !
THEY walk free in 3 years - and Daniel Coffill and his parents - who will now have to care for him for life - receive the TRUE life sentence !
No wonder so many thugs simply laugh at both the law and the pathetic victim-hating judges who bend over backwards to show their "touchy-feely" credentials for any piece of scum who come up before them !
They couldn't care less for victims - victims like PC Coffill who cannot talk, breathes through a hole in his throat and is fed through a tube in his stomach - or victims like his mother Margaret, now 50, who has had to give up her job as an office manager and convert the sitting room of her Maidstone home into a bedroom for her injured son.
Mrs Justice Linda Dobbs, who allowed the appeals, said: "We're mindful of the devastating impact this incident has had, both on the victim and on his family."
But not mindful enough to refuse the appeal or give a **** about the fact that when they support the scum who did this to Daniel Coffill they themselves are WORSE than that scum !
DON'T LET THEM GET AWAY WITH IT - JOIN NAVIGOR TODAY !"
NOTHING anti-police about that just anti thugs and a justice system which allows them to flourish!
Andy, Bury says...
11:57am Fri 6 Apr 07
They are nowt but BNP agitators. Don't be taken in.
And they refer to the police as the "police farce". So they hate the courts, they hate the police, they hate the thugs. So much hatred, so little brains.
So these vigilante crackpots know better? They can't even be upfront about who backs them or exactly what vigilante action they are going to take; my, my, how coy that site is about what Navigor's aims are (you think they're content with an internet name and shame strategy?). Let's be clear about what vigilantism means. Summary justice. Not, of course, that they will be bothered about trifles such as evidence and due process.
And they refer to the police as the "police farce". So they hate the courts, they hate the police, they hate the thugs. So much hatred, so little brains.
So these vigilante crackpots know better? They can't even be upfront about who backs them or exactly what vigilante action they are going to take; my, my, how coy that site is about what Navigor's aims are (you think they're content with an internet name and shame strategy?). Let's be clear about what vigilantism means. Summary justice. Not, of course, that they will be bothered about trifles such as evidence and due process.
Albert Hurwood, says...
3:07pm Fri 6 Apr 07
Well Andy, you ARE a busy little bee aren't you ?
Popping up here, popping up there.
When are you going to tell us the REAL truth about YOUR motives for attacking THE NATIONAL VIGILANTE ORGANISATION ?
LET ME TRY TO MAKE A GUESS.
The BNP are making a great deal of inroads everywhere and various councillors and New Labour are panic stricken.
New Labour in particular know that they have lost the next general election and will do anything to try and stave off that defeat.
If the BNP do well at the May council elections then New Labour are totally finished and they know it.
By attacking THE NATIONAL VIGILANTE ORGANISATION and trying to establish a link to the BNP then they can try to say, as they are doing, that we are a bunch of "thugs" and "crackpots."
So, they can THEN say, as they are doing, that because we are a "front" for the BNP then the BNP are ALSO a bunch of "thugs" and "crackpots" !
Yes I know, to do THAT you have to be REALLY twisted and desperate !
But everyone who has joined us know the REAL truth about Navigor.
Because, like everyone in Navigor, they want to live a life free from fear !
So, have no worry about those people, they are pathetic and some may even be paid agents either of New Labour or of groups associated with them.
So let them call us what they like - we have the honesty of decent people behind us and that is the one thing they can NEVER defeat !
Perhaps that is why "Andy" hates us so much !
But if YOU want to find the REAL truth about us simply go to our website.
Many people who have simply join us on the spot !
Perhaps that is what "ANDY" really hates and fears !
Popping up here, popping up there.
When are you going to tell us the REAL truth about YOUR motives for attacking THE NATIONAL VIGILANTE ORGANISATION ?
LET ME TRY TO MAKE A GUESS.
The BNP are making a great deal of inroads everywhere and various councillors and New Labour are panic stricken.
New Labour in particular know that they have lost the next general election and will do anything to try and stave off that defeat.
If the BNP do well at the May council elections then New Labour are totally finished and they know it.
By attacking THE NATIONAL VIGILANTE ORGANISATION and trying to establish a link to the BNP then they can try to say, as they are doing, that we are a bunch of "thugs" and "crackpots."
So, they can THEN say, as they are doing, that because we are a "front" for the BNP then the BNP are ALSO a bunch of "thugs" and "crackpots" !
Yes I know, to do THAT you have to be REALLY twisted and desperate !
But everyone who has joined us know the REAL truth about Navigor.
Because, like everyone in Navigor, they want to live a life free from fear !
So, have no worry about those people, they are pathetic and some may even be paid agents either of New Labour or of groups associated with them.
So let them call us what they like - we have the honesty of decent people behind us and that is the one thing they can NEVER defeat !
Perhaps that is why "Andy" hates us so much !
But if YOU want to find the REAL truth about us simply go to our website.
Many people who have simply join us on the spot !
Perhaps that is what "ANDY" really hates and fears !
Andy, Bury says...
6:14pm Fri 6 Apr 07
Two can play at the same post, different newspaper mullarkey Albie......
I live free of fear Albie. Told you that already. The BNP might like to portary Britain as on the brink but afraid its not me old far Right extremist (you let that little cat out of the bag with your BNP vs slavery comments ****. Andy by the way you might want to look more deeply into the real reasons over Prison Service redployment from Corby to Leicester; access to a much more educated workforce being the prime one).
And I've also told you I'm no fan of New Labour. A "paid agent"? Don't make me laff. You and your BNP cronies are trawling the internet for crime stories so you can all post a remarkably similar message (what's up, your little band of members got no ideas of their own? Or are they illiterate?) to promote your crackpot organisation.
But I'm really no fan of the racist, facist BNP, its apologists and its front organisations.
But you are right on one thing, I am busy. I will happily devote time to exposing your little mob. Because you are the problem, not the solution.
Now why not give Nick Griffin a call and see what your next step is?
I live free of fear Albie. Told you that already. The BNP might like to portary Britain as on the brink but afraid its not me old far Right extremist (you let that little cat out of the bag with your BNP vs slavery comments ****. Andy by the way you might want to look more deeply into the real reasons over Prison Service redployment from Corby to Leicester; access to a much more educated workforce being the prime one).
And I've also told you I'm no fan of New Labour. A "paid agent"? Don't make me laff. You and your BNP cronies are trawling the internet for crime stories so you can all post a remarkably similar message (what's up, your little band of members got no ideas of their own? Or are they illiterate?) to promote your crackpot organisation.
But I'm really no fan of the racist, facist BNP, its apologists and its front organisations.
But you are right on one thing, I am busy. I will happily devote time to exposing your little mob. Because you are the problem, not the solution.
Now why not give Nick Griffin a call and see what your next step is?
Albert Hurwood, says...
12:45am Sat 7 Apr 07
I really don't know why Andy of Bury seems so determined to equate us with the BNP, but I can assure everyone reading this that NAVIGOR - THE NATIONAL VIGILANTE ORGANISATION has no affiliation with the BNP whatever !
They are a political party with a wide range of policies - we are solely concerned with CRIME and FIGHTING IT!
I can only say to anyone reading lies about us - visit our website and make up your own minds - we don't even mention the BNP so whatever Andy's motives are the truth doesn't figure very largely in it !
I also have to wonder, why, as soon as anyone talks about standing up to thugs, idiots like Andy start screaming BNP ?
They are a political party with a wide range of policies - we are solely concerned with CRIME and FIGHTING IT!
I can only say to anyone reading lies about us - visit our website and make up your own minds - we don't even mention the BNP so whatever Andy's motives are the truth doesn't figure very largely in it !
I also have to wonder, why, as soon as anyone talks about standing up to thugs, idiots like Andy start screaming BNP ?
Andy, Bury says...
12:34pm Sat 7 Apr 07
It's quite simple Albie, I scream BNP when I see a BNP supporter setting up a vigilante website. Then when I see that BNP supporter denying BNP connections I get even more suspicious.
Funny how Navigor's agenda chimes so readily with the BNP's. Funny how the BNP's strategy predicts civil unrest which they would then exploit to take power (it's not an overly cunning plan but what do you expect). Hmm. Now how could civil unrest be created? Perhaps by underming the justice system by going out and dishing out your own form of justice (free from tiresome obstacles like, oh I don't know, evidence.) Is that why you call the police the "police farce" Albert? Oh gosh, you are sooooo witty. But orry, I don't see the joke in encouraging vigilante action which, as police officers have already pointed out to you, will only make there job harder.
Now why not wrap up Navigor and actually do something positive for your local community. Are you a memer of the Residents Association? Do you attend council meetings? Do you work with and support, rather than undermine, your local police?
I think I know the answers but......
Funny how Navigor's agenda chimes so readily with the BNP's. Funny how the BNP's strategy predicts civil unrest which they would then exploit to take power (it's not an overly cunning plan but what do you expect). Hmm. Now how could civil unrest be created? Perhaps by underming the justice system by going out and dishing out your own form of justice (free from tiresome obstacles like, oh I don't know, evidence.) Is that why you call the police the "police farce" Albert? Oh gosh, you are sooooo witty. But orry, I don't see the joke in encouraging vigilante action which, as police officers have already pointed out to you, will only make there job harder.
Now why not wrap up Navigor and actually do something positive for your local community. Are you a memer of the Residents Association? Do you attend council meetings? Do you work with and support, rather than undermine, your local police?
I think I know the answers but......
Albert Hurwood, says...
4:06pm Sat 7 Apr 07
No police officers have any contact with THE NATIONAL VIGILANTE ORGANISATION at all, apart from one serving officer who has joined us !
This is just ONE of the reasons why I call many of them the police farce:
"A shocking report by Her Majesty's Inspectorate of Constabulary, shows how New Labour's obsession with targets has led to a POLICE FARCE where the public are less important than the paperwork !
It shows that less than 3% of officers are available to deal with 999 calls because so many are filling in mountains of paperwork !
So concerned are the police with meeting "targets" that one police chief has even ordered his men to ignore all incidents which do not affect government targets !
Another - unnamed - force had 800 officers allegedly working but only 20 were free to deal with emergency calls !
Emergency calls are now routinely downgraded if there are no police officers available or their operators are swamped with calls - in that way targets are met because less serious calls can be met with a phone call rather than a visit from a police officer !
So next time you read of a woman battered to death by a burgler in her own home 50 minutes after calling the police, you can feel reassured to know that at least the police are meeting government targets !
And the inspectors were told that some officers didn't even bother to respond when they were sent on some calls or made themselves "unavailable" - the result being a backlog of 200 "unserviced" incidents in one area alone !
And to add insult to injury, patrol cars spend almost half their time driving around without even attempting to target crime hotspots and many police stations, even if open, have closed their front desks to the public!
All in all it was a picture of a police force so enmeshed in red tape and obsessed with targets that the very reason for their existence - the protection of the public - had long since been forgotten !
Meeting targets is now the only reason for their existence - mountains of paperwork that can be fed into New labour's fudge machine, spun out of all recognition to somehow prove that the police are doing their job - no matter how many people lie dead on the streets because paper targets, not the public, have become more important !
So much for the police serving the public !
If anyone wants to join THE NATIONAL VIGILANTE ORGANISATION then simply go to:
www.navigor.org.uk
This is just ONE of the reasons why I call many of them the police farce:
"A shocking report by Her Majesty's Inspectorate of Constabulary, shows how New Labour's obsession with targets has led to a POLICE FARCE where the public are less important than the paperwork !
It shows that less than 3% of officers are available to deal with 999 calls because so many are filling in mountains of paperwork !
So concerned are the police with meeting "targets" that one police chief has even ordered his men to ignore all incidents which do not affect government targets !
Another - unnamed - force had 800 officers allegedly working but only 20 were free to deal with emergency calls !
Emergency calls are now routinely downgraded if there are no police officers available or their operators are swamped with calls - in that way targets are met because less serious calls can be met with a phone call rather than a visit from a police officer !
So next time you read of a woman battered to death by a burgler in her own home 50 minutes after calling the police, you can feel reassured to know that at least the police are meeting government targets !
And the inspectors were told that some officers didn't even bother to respond when they were sent on some calls or made themselves "unavailable" - the result being a backlog of 200 "unserviced" incidents in one area alone !
And to add insult to injury, patrol cars spend almost half their time driving around without even attempting to target crime hotspots and many police stations, even if open, have closed their front desks to the public!
All in all it was a picture of a police force so enmeshed in red tape and obsessed with targets that the very reason for their existence - the protection of the public - had long since been forgotten !
Meeting targets is now the only reason for their existence - mountains of paperwork that can be fed into New labour's fudge machine, spun out of all recognition to somehow prove that the police are doing their job - no matter how many people lie dead on the streets because paper targets, not the public, have become more important !
So much for the police serving the public !
If anyone wants to join THE NATIONAL VIGILANTE ORGANISATION then simply go to:
www.navigor.org.uk
Andy, Bury says...
7:46pm Sat 7 Apr 07
Yada, yada Albert. So, do you want to comment on your explicit, craven support for the BNP and the happy coincidence of you running the Navigor site.
Do you want to provide a link to this government report of yours - and at the same time explsain how those working in the criminal justice system are not accountable as you claim? Then can you explain how vigilantes are accountable.
And explain how, as you know, serving and ex police oficers have condemned Navigor? Have a look at policeman's blog or Bury Times etc if you want to double check.
If you struggle for answers, get on the blower to Nick Griffin.
Now Albert, if YOU can't be honest how can you dole out summary justice?
Do you want to provide a link to this government report of yours - and at the same time explsain how those working in the criminal justice system are not accountable as you claim? Then can you explain how vigilantes are accountable.
And explain how, as you know, serving and ex police oficers have condemned Navigor? Have a look at policeman's blog or Bury Times etc if you want to double check.
If you struggle for answers, get on the blower to Nick Griffin.
Now Albert, if YOU can't be honest how can you dole out summary justice?
ledge, brighton says...
10:53pm Sat 7 Apr 07
Disgusted wrote:mate! yh it was provoked they pushed one of da gals dat was wit them so honestly tell me if that was ur gf, wife or wateva n they got pushed by a bunch of idiots u wouldnt stand up 4 er n try 2 protect er n if u dare say u wouldnt stick up 4 er u r a dirty little lier, n wat gives u da right to call me a lil boi 4 all u kno i could b older dan u! unless ur jus a moanin old man, n wat do u tink is more important this petty fight or war in iraq? death due to fights next 2 none but death in iraq many! so sort out ur prioritys old man! n so wat if i wear a hooded top it doesnt automatically sugest that im gunna cause trouble does it?! get a life bruv!!!
ledge wrote:Your name should be Illedge little boy. Still, that comment\'s probably gone straight over your hooded head.
o dear! com on now dis is nuthin stuff like dis happens everyday except people get the **** kicked out o them this was a provoked fight they didnt start it 4 no reason all u talkin bout britain diein. yh britain is dien cuz o war in iraq n ur boverd about summin as little as this god sake!!!
\"Stuff like this happens every day.\" That\'s exactly why all these completely frustrated law abiding people posting on this link are so frustrated. Its not meant to be the norm you fool.
A provoked fight?! What, did one of those naive Austrian students dare to stand up for himself when being badmouthed by one of the tough boys. It\'s called bullying, plain and simple.
Albert Hurwood, says...
10:08am Sun 8 Apr 07
As "Andy" is WELL AWARE nowhere on the NATIONAL VIGILANTE ORGANISATION website does it EVEN MENTION "summary justice"
This is what we ACTUALLY say:
"By using the Internet we can change public opinion, and more importantly, make certain that the failures of the Government and the various agencies who should be protecting us are made public !
We will be using this website to publicise these failures and bring them into the public domain.
And if there is one thing which these agencies hate it is being held accountable for their failures !
So we will be demanding that failures in the criminal justice system are not allowed to be hidden.
In addition we will also be demanding that those responsible ARE SACKED !
If you are sick and tired of moronic incompetents being REWARDED for their failures then JOIN US !
We will be using the Internet as a WEAPON FOR JUSTICE !
To HIT BACK at the complacency of those in power who think they should not answer for their actions !
And to publicise the thugs and criminals who are ruining the lives of decent people in this country ! "
Before you swallow the lies of "Andy" and others just read the truth !
www.navigor.org.uk
This is what we ACTUALLY say:
"By using the Internet we can change public opinion, and more importantly, make certain that the failures of the Government and the various agencies who should be protecting us are made public !
We will be using this website to publicise these failures and bring them into the public domain.
And if there is one thing which these agencies hate it is being held accountable for their failures !
So we will be demanding that failures in the criminal justice system are not allowed to be hidden.
In addition we will also be demanding that those responsible ARE SACKED !
If you are sick and tired of moronic incompetents being REWARDED for their failures then JOIN US !
We will be using the Internet as a WEAPON FOR JUSTICE !
To HIT BACK at the complacency of those in power who think they should not answer for their actions !
And to publicise the thugs and criminals who are ruining the lives of decent people in this country ! "
Before you swallow the lies of "Andy" and others just read the truth !
www.navigor.org.uk
Andy, Bury says...
10:55am Sun 8 Apr 07
Albie,
What does "vigilante" stand for in your "organisation"'s title. You do kow what a vigilante is right? Of course you do. It's just you know that if you were to actually promote vigilntism publicly then it would you in the dock. So you go all coy on us.
And what of the old BNP? When are you going to explain your slavering support as highlighted so publicly? You keep ignoring it Albie old son, keep denying the BNP connection "BNP or slavery" you said. What are you on about?
What does "vigilante" stand for in your "organisation"'s title. You do kow what a vigilante is right? Of course you do. It's just you know that if you were to actually promote vigilntism publicly then it would you in the dock. So you go all coy on us.
And what of the old BNP? When are you going to explain your slavering support as highlighted so publicly? You keep ignoring it Albie old son, keep denying the BNP connection "BNP or slavery" you said. What are you on about?
Albert Hurwood, says...
11:59am Sun 8 Apr 07
This is what we say on THE NATIONAL VIGILANTE ORGANISATION website:
"By using the Internet we can change public opinion, and more importantly, make certain that the failures of the Government and the various agencies who should be protecting us are made public !
We will be using this website to publicise these failures and bring them into the public domain.
And if there is one thing which these agencies hate it is being held accountable for their failures !
So we will be demanding that failures in the criminal justice system are not allowed to be hidden.
In addition we will also be demanding that those responsible ARE SACKED !
If you are sick and tired of moronic incompetents being REWARDED for their failures then JOIN US !
We will be using the Internet as a WEAPON FOR JUSTICE !
To HIT BACK at the complacency of those in power who think they should not answer for their actions !
And to publicise the thugs and criminals who are ruining the lives of decent people in this country ! "
www.navigor.org.uk
"By using the Internet we can change public opinion, and more importantly, make certain that the failures of the Government and the various agencies who should be protecting us are made public !
We will be using this website to publicise these failures and bring them into the public domain.
And if there is one thing which these agencies hate it is being held accountable for their failures !
So we will be demanding that failures in the criminal justice system are not allowed to be hidden.
In addition we will also be demanding that those responsible ARE SACKED !
If you are sick and tired of moronic incompetents being REWARDED for their failures then JOIN US !
We will be using the Internet as a WEAPON FOR JUSTICE !
To HIT BACK at the complacency of those in power who think they should not answer for their actions !
And to publicise the thugs and criminals who are ruining the lives of decent people in this country ! "
www.navigor.org.uk
Andy, Bury says...
1:12pm Sun 8 Apr 07
Er Albert, why did you put the word "vigilante" in your alleged organisation's name? So, are you saying you don't do what you say on the tin? And again, you seem to think those in our criminal justice system are not accountable. Clearly not true but how is an organisation operating out of a post box number gouing to be accountable(and that post box looks a bit odd too- you live in Corby; why not an NN postcode?).
And what of your BNP support Albie? Do spill the beans old chum.
And what of your BNP support Albie? Do spill the beans old chum.
Albert Hurwood, says...
5:19pm Sun 8 Apr 07
Oh yes I'm certain we wold have got YOUR support had we called ourselves THE REALLY VERY NICE NEVER-HURT-A-THUG PINK AND FLUFFY ORGANISATION !
Oh no that's already being used !
Isn't that the motto of NEW LABOUR ?
Or is it the Tories?
SOOOOO difficult to tell them apart "ANDY"
You see THE NATIONAL VIGILANTE ORGANISATION really gets us NOTICED !
And you're the proof !
www.navigor.org.uk
Oh no that's already being used !
Isn't that the motto of NEW LABOUR ?
Or is it the Tories?
SOOOOO difficult to tell them apart "ANDY"
You see THE NATIONAL VIGILANTE ORGANISATION really gets us NOTICED !
And you're the proof !
www.navigor.org.uk
Andy, bury says...
6:40pm Sun 8 Apr 07
For a non-affiliated organisation you don't mind having a pop at mainstream politics Albie. Prefer your politics a bit more to the far right dontcha. Give us a B. Give us an N. Give us a P. Give us Navigrrrrrr.
Nutters always get noticed though mate.
Nutters always get noticed though mate.
Albert Hurwood, says...
12:27am Mon 9 Apr 07
You're the ONLY one obsessed with the BNP.
You seem to see them everywhere!
Why?
Surely as a political party they're no threat to the Political establishment?
How many councillors are they putting up in May?
20-30-40 ?
Hardly seems to be worth the significance you're ascribing to it!
Let's face it - what can they do?
You seem to see them everywhere!
Why?
Surely as a political party they're no threat to the Political establishment?
How many councillors are they putting up in May?
20-30-40 ?
Hardly seems to be worth the significance you're ascribing to it!
Let's face it - what can they do?
Andy, Bury says...
10:22am Mon 9 Apr 07
Albie, I'm not the one who has a) set up a "vigilante" organisation but denies promoting vigilantism and b) several times hailed (or is it heiled) the BNP and yet denies any connection to them. According to you Albie, and I quote, the "choice is between slavery or the BNP". Seems like you are quite a fan.
Nice loaded question though chum. I'm guessing you actually know exactly how many BNP candidates are standing.
Navigggrrrr = BNP.
Nice loaded question though chum. I'm guessing you actually know exactly how many BNP candidates are standing.
Navigggrrrr = BNP.
johnny, swindon, says...
1:51pm Mon 9 Apr 07
If "Andy" is the one I'm thinking of he's a PAID committed loony lefty who belongs to the GMB, the trade union which has abandoned it's British members in favour of low paid workers from Poland,
and in Swindon has appealed to employers to employ immigrants in favour of British Workers !
And it certainly sounds like the rantings of Andrew Newsom.
If "ANDY" is that Andrew Newsom then I urge everyone to totally ignore his rantings!
He's totally insane when it comes to the BNP and spends all his time scouring newspapers looking for anything to link to the BNP and rant about them!
And as far as I'm aware he also is a leading agitiaor on the UAF website!
and in Swindon has appealed to employers to employ immigrants in favour of British Workers !
And it certainly sounds like the rantings of Andrew Newsom.
If "ANDY" is that Andrew Newsom then I urge everyone to totally ignore his rantings!
He's totally insane when it comes to the BNP and spends all his time scouring newspapers looking for anything to link to the BNP and rant about them!
And as far as I'm aware he also is a leading agitiaor on the UAF website!
Andy, Bury says...
2:22pm Mon 9 Apr 07
Hey Johnny, you just posted that in Bolton too. Doesn't make it any more correct though.
Sorry to disappoint but I'm not affiliated with any political party or a member of a union.
If you track down where my opposition to Navigggrrr (BNP)started it was when the crackpot vigilantes started posting (from waaay out of town) on my local paper. I got intrigued, googled Albert Hurwood and, hey, found he was a slavering BNP supporter who just so happened to have set up a vigilante organisation (not that it promtes vigilantism eh Albie).
These self appointed seekers of justice can't be honest about anything. They call themselves a vigilante organisation, but deny being vigilantes. They deny BNP connections and yet Albert Hurwood, the owner of the site, can be found by the power of Google to be posting in support of the BNP - apparently, says Albie, it's "a choice between slavery and the BNP". Do what?
And with Navigggrrr (they are sooo angry) they are trying to bring anarchy to the streets, which conveniently chimes with BNP strategy. You see the BNP foresee exploiting civil unrest to seek power (because they'll not get voted in) and what better way to create unrest than having gangs of marauding vigilantes undermining the police as the seek out summary justice.
So Navigggrrr fellas how about being just a bit more honest about what and who you stand for.
Naviggrrr = BNP. Don't be taken in.
Sorry to disappoint but I'm not affiliated with any political party or a member of a union.
If you track down where my opposition to Navigggrrr (BNP)started it was when the crackpot vigilantes started posting (from waaay out of town) on my local paper. I got intrigued, googled Albert Hurwood and, hey, found he was a slavering BNP supporter who just so happened to have set up a vigilante organisation (not that it promtes vigilantism eh Albie).
These self appointed seekers of justice can't be honest about anything. They call themselves a vigilante organisation, but deny being vigilantes. They deny BNP connections and yet Albert Hurwood, the owner of the site, can be found by the power of Google to be posting in support of the BNP - apparently, says Albie, it's "a choice between slavery and the BNP". Do what?
And with Navigggrrr (they are sooo angry) they are trying to bring anarchy to the streets, which conveniently chimes with BNP strategy. You see the BNP foresee exploiting civil unrest to seek power (because they'll not get voted in) and what better way to create unrest than having gangs of marauding vigilantes undermining the police as the seek out summary justice.
So Navigggrrr fellas how about being just a bit more honest about what and who you stand for.
Naviggrrr = BNP. Don't be taken in.
johnny, swindon, says...
2:27pm Mon 9 Apr 07
If "Andy" is the one I'm thinking of he's a PAID committed loony lefty who belongs to the GMB, the trade union which has abandoned it's British members in favour of low paid workers from Poland,
and in Swindon has appealed to employers to employ immigrants in favour of British Workers !
And it certainly sounds like the rantings of Andrew Newsom.
If "ANDY" is that Andrew Newsom then I urge everyone to totally ignore his rantings!
He's totally insane when it comes to the BNP and spends all his time scouring newspapers looking for anything to link to the BNP and rant about them!
And as far as I'm aware he also is a leading agitiaor on the UAF website!
and in Swindon has appealed to employers to employ immigrants in favour of British Workers !
And it certainly sounds like the rantings of Andrew Newsom.
If "ANDY" is that Andrew Newsom then I urge everyone to totally ignore his rantings!
He's totally insane when it comes to the BNP and spends all his time scouring newspapers looking for anything to link to the BNP and rant about them!
And as far as I'm aware he also is a leading agitiaor on the UAF website!
Andy, Bury says...
3:46pm Mon 9 Apr 07
Lost the plot Jonny? I know you're throwing that inaccurate post about will nilly but..... you already posted it here before sonny. Repetion for emphasis? Doesn't make it any more true.
Now thewn, is Naviggrrrr a vigilante organisation or not - you see there's the name and then there's what your mate Albert says they're about. They dont marry up Johnny mate. And , you're not going to try and deny Albert's BNP support are you? C'mon fellas if you are seekers of justice how about being a bit honest.
Naviggrrrrr = BNP.
Now thewn, is Naviggrrrr a vigilante organisation or not - you see there's the name and then there's what your mate Albert says they're about. They dont marry up Johnny mate. And , you're not going to try and deny Albert's BNP support are you? C'mon fellas if you are seekers of justice how about being a bit honest.
Naviggrrrrr = BNP.
Albert Hurwood, says...
4:10pm Mon 9 Apr 07
By using the Internet we can change public opinion, and more importantly, make certain that the failures of the Government and the various agencies who should be protecting us are made public !
We will be using this website to publicise these failures and bring them into the public domain.
And if there is one thing which these agencies hate it is being held accountable for their failures !
So we will be demanding that failures in the criminal justice system are not allowed to be hidden.
In addition we will also be demanding that those responsible ARE SACKED !
If you are sick and tired of moronic incompetents being REWARDED for their failures then JOIN US !
We will be using the Internet as a WEAPON FOR JUSTICE !
To HIT BACK at the complacency of those in power who think they should not answer for their actions !
And to publicise the thugs and criminals who are ruining the lives of decent people in this country !
Join THE NATIONAL VIGILANTE ORGANISATION
www.navigor.org.uk
We will be using this website to publicise these failures and bring them into the public domain.
And if there is one thing which these agencies hate it is being held accountable for their failures !
So we will be demanding that failures in the criminal justice system are not allowed to be hidden.
In addition we will also be demanding that those responsible ARE SACKED !
If you are sick and tired of moronic incompetents being REWARDED for their failures then JOIN US !
We will be using the Internet as a WEAPON FOR JUSTICE !
To HIT BACK at the complacency of those in power who think they should not answer for their actions !
And to publicise the thugs and criminals who are ruining the lives of decent people in this country !
Join THE NATIONAL VIGILANTE ORGANISATION
www.navigor.org.uk
Andy, Bury says...
4:15pm Mon 9 Apr 07
Albert, I think you'll find the nation's press are "publicising these failures" - they are hardly hidden, nor the thugs. After all your stratewgy is to latch on to the very stories that report crime, policing, the Home Office etc.. - what does Naviggrrr bring to the table? Nothing except the politics of the far right.
I mean Albert, don't be shy, just why do you call yourself a vigilante organisation? I mean if you're not planning on a bit of vigilantism that is.
And what of your BNP support. A mere happy coincidence.
Navigggrrrr = BNP. You knows it Albie
I mean Albert, don't be shy, just why do you call yourself a vigilante organisation? I mean if you're not planning on a bit of vigilantism that is.
And what of your BNP support. A mere happy coincidence.
Navigggrrrr = BNP. You knows it Albie
johnny, swindon, says...
5:50pm Mon 9 Apr 07
"ANDY" is the alias of a well known LLL (Loony Lefty Liar) who is being PAID to spend his pathetic days trying to find ways to discredit the BNP in the run up to the May 3rd elections!
Take no notice of him, he's just a gutless troublemaker who hates the BNP and all British people!
Ask the people in SWINDON where he REALLY lives what they think of him.
Take no notice of him, he's just a gutless troublemaker who hates the BNP and all British people!
Ask the people in SWINDON where he REALLY lives what they think of him.
Andy, Bury says...
6:23pm Mon 9 Apr 07
Johnny, I live in Bury (it has a World Famous Market (how us locals laugh), just off Angouleme Way. Nice curry house called Jewel in the Crown, a bob footy team, home to another footy team, Man U breakaways FC United who drink in the Packhoses, Staff of Life and even the Swan & Cem, has a hung council, - any more local info you want, just ask.
Bury, or the Bury Times, is where I first came across Navigggrrr which sparked my interest in one Albert Hurwood, Naviggrrr main man. Albie is a BNP supporter - he thinks come the elections the choice is, and I quote, "between slavery and the BNP".
But hey, don't let me stop you. You are only helping to demonstrate just how cosy Navigggrrr and the BNP are. Why do you use front organisations by the way?
As for discrediting the BNP, think you can do that all by yourself mate. Payment? You're having a laugh. I don't need paying to draw attention to the underhand tricks of the BNP.
May 3rd - vote anyone but the BNP.
Navigggrrr = BNP. Don't be taken in.
Bury, or the Bury Times, is where I first came across Navigggrrr which sparked my interest in one Albert Hurwood, Naviggrrr main man. Albie is a BNP supporter - he thinks come the elections the choice is, and I quote, "between slavery and the BNP".
But hey, don't let me stop you. You are only helping to demonstrate just how cosy Navigggrrr and the BNP are. Why do you use front organisations by the way?
As for discrediting the BNP, think you can do that all by yourself mate. Payment? You're having a laugh. I don't need paying to draw attention to the underhand tricks of the BNP.
May 3rd - vote anyone but the BNP.
Navigggrrr = BNP. Don't be taken in.
Albert Hurwood, says...
8:13pm Mon 9 Apr 07
Libel and Slander
If the publication is in a permanent form (for example in a book, magazine or film), then the defamation is libel. It is slander if the publication is in a transient form (speech). Signs, gestures, photographs, pictures, statues, cartoons etc. can also give rise to a claim for defamation, but the most obvious types of defamatory statements are written or spoken words.
The principal practical difference between claims for libel and claims for slander is what a claimant must prove to succeed in his or her claim. In libel claims, the claimant does not have to prove that he or she has suffered loss or damage as a result of the publication. In contrast, in claims for slander, the claimant must prove actual damage. There are however several exceptions to the rule that actual damage must be proved in claims for slander.
If the publication is in a permanent form (for example in a book, magazine or film), then the defamation is libel. It is slander if the publication is in a transient form (speech). Signs, gestures, photographs, pictures, statues, cartoons etc. can also give rise to a claim for defamation, but the most obvious types of defamatory statements are written or spoken words.
The principal practical difference between claims for libel and claims for slander is what a claimant must prove to succeed in his or her claim. In libel claims, the claimant does not have to prove that he or she has suffered loss or damage as a result of the publication. In contrast, in claims for slander, the claimant must prove actual damage. There are however several exceptions to the rule that actual damage must be proved in claims for slander.
Andy, Bury says...
10:13pm Mon 9 Apr 07
If you weren't a BNP supporter who owns the Naviggrrr site, well............
Nice use of google though. And cutting and pasting too. Amazing.
Nice use of google though. And cutting and pasting too. Amazing.
Albert Hurwood, says...
1:22am Tue 10 Apr 07
When you read the poisonous slime this man puts around compare it to what WE are fighting FOR:
"The murderer of Ryan Daly was only charged with manslaughter, then released on parole after 18 months !
Ryan Daly, was murdered by teenage hoodlum, 17 year old Iain Sellers, who attacked him with a five foot wooden beam with a nail embedded in it !
The attack was so vicious that Ryan's face was almost torn off by the weapon Sellers wielded !
Ryan fell back, hitting his head on a manhole cover and later died in hospital in the arms of his parents, Ken and Angela Daly.
They naturally expected Sellers to be charged with murder, but in our "protect a thug" society he was only charged with manslaughter and no one bothered to tell them until it was too late !
When they did find out about the deal they launched a campaign to get the sentence changed and eventually received an apology from the Crown Prosecution Service - but far too late to get justice for their murdered son !
But the betrayals didn't stop there, for Baroness Scotland, the Minister of State, told them "Mr Sellers will not be released early on Home Detention Curfew unless the Governor can be satisfied that there are exceptional reasons to grant release and he passes a rigorous assessment process."
Just 18 months later, Sellers, who had been out that night on a thieving expedition with friends, was released on parole - and is now back in jail - for violating his parole conditions!
In a final sickening betrayal, like Paul Hamp, they were refused compensation by the Criminal Injuries Compensation Authority who blamed Ryan for starting the incident!
Angela said: "This means that if I swear at you and you kill me, that it's somehow my fault. This is not right."
No it isn't right, but when did this contemptible government ever care about that or justice for murder victims like Ryan Daly ?
DON'T LET THEM GET AWAY WITH IT - JOIN THE NATIONAL VIGILANTE ORGANISATION TODAY !"
These are the kind of people "ANDY" is sneering at!
Who do YOU want to support?
Us or HIM?
www.navigor.org.uk
"The murderer of Ryan Daly was only charged with manslaughter, then released on parole after 18 months !
Ryan Daly, was murdered by teenage hoodlum, 17 year old Iain Sellers, who attacked him with a five foot wooden beam with a nail embedded in it !
The attack was so vicious that Ryan's face was almost torn off by the weapon Sellers wielded !
Ryan fell back, hitting his head on a manhole cover and later died in hospital in the arms of his parents, Ken and Angela Daly.
They naturally expected Sellers to be charged with murder, but in our "protect a thug" society he was only charged with manslaughter and no one bothered to tell them until it was too late !
When they did find out about the deal they launched a campaign to get the sentence changed and eventually received an apology from the Crown Prosecution Service - but far too late to get justice for their murdered son !
But the betrayals didn't stop there, for Baroness Scotland, the Minister of State, told them "Mr Sellers will not be released early on Home Detention Curfew unless the Governor can be satisfied that there are exceptional reasons to grant release and he passes a rigorous assessment process."
Just 18 months later, Sellers, who had been out that night on a thieving expedition with friends, was released on parole - and is now back in jail - for violating his parole conditions!
In a final sickening betrayal, like Paul Hamp, they were refused compensation by the Criminal Injuries Compensation Authority who blamed Ryan for starting the incident!
Angela said: "This means that if I swear at you and you kill me, that it's somehow my fault. This is not right."
No it isn't right, but when did this contemptible government ever care about that or justice for murder victims like Ryan Daly ?
DON'T LET THEM GET AWAY WITH IT - JOIN THE NATIONAL VIGILANTE ORGANISATION TODAY !"
These are the kind of people "ANDY" is sneering at!
Who do YOU want to support?
Us or HIM?
www.navigor.org.uk
Andy, Bury says...
9:26am Tue 10 Apr 07
Albie, let's consider some things about Navigggrrr.
1. You call yourself a vigilante organisation but, in fact, deny you promote vigilantism. How does that work - and no baloney about how the meaning of the word vigilante has been corrupted. Check the Oxford dictionary. Ask around. WE ALL KNOW WHAT A VIGILANTE REALLY IS.
2. On that note, is that why you refer to the police as the "police farce."? I'm sure the hundreds of thousands of hardworking officers around the country will thank you for that. What's that? Officers have already said your crackpot organisation will make their job harder? Oh dear Albert.
3. The BNP. You love them dontcha fella. You've not commented on the slobbering praise and support you've given them which I quoted above (you know the whole "slavery or the BNP" guff) Why so hush about the BNP connection Albie?
4. Albert Hurwood. Unusual name that, Hurwood. Is it listed in the telephone book? You see Naviggrrr only provides a dodgy looking post box number - no proper address details. So Albie, you argue, falsely, that those in the criminal justice system are not accountable. BUT HOW ACCOUNTABLE IS A "VIGILANTE ORGANISATION" RUN BY AN ARDENT BNP FAN OUT OF AN ANONYMOUS BOX NUMBER? The answer Albie, is not at all. Tut-tut.
So Albie, if you want to proclaim yourself as a seeker of justice don't you think a good starting point would be to be honest and transparent?
You add nothing to society Albie, you're more interested in destroying it. Funny how BNP strategy foresees civil unrest which it would exploit to take power. Now, how could unrest be created. Perhaps by undermining the police and taking to the streets as "vigilantes"? No-one is equipped to dish out summary justice, but least of all far right extremists.
1. You call yourself a vigilante organisation but, in fact, deny you promote vigilantism. How does that work - and no baloney about how the meaning of the word vigilante has been corrupted. Check the Oxford dictionary. Ask around. WE ALL KNOW WHAT A VIGILANTE REALLY IS.
2. On that note, is that why you refer to the police as the "police farce."? I'm sure the hundreds of thousands of hardworking officers around the country will thank you for that. What's that? Officers have already said your crackpot organisation will make their job harder? Oh dear Albert.
3. The BNP. You love them dontcha fella. You've not commented on the slobbering praise and support you've given them which I quoted above (you know the whole "slavery or the BNP" guff) Why so hush about the BNP connection Albie?
4. Albert Hurwood. Unusual name that, Hurwood. Is it listed in the telephone book? You see Naviggrrr only provides a dodgy looking post box number - no proper address details. So Albie, you argue, falsely, that those in the criminal justice system are not accountable. BUT HOW ACCOUNTABLE IS A "VIGILANTE ORGANISATION" RUN BY AN ARDENT BNP FAN OUT OF AN ANONYMOUS BOX NUMBER? The answer Albie, is not at all. Tut-tut.
So Albie, if you want to proclaim yourself as a seeker of justice don't you think a good starting point would be to be honest and transparent?
You add nothing to society Albie, you're more interested in destroying it. Funny how BNP strategy foresees civil unrest which it would exploit to take power. Now, how could unrest be created. Perhaps by undermining the police and taking to the streets as "vigilantes"? No-one is equipped to dish out summary justice, but least of all far right extremists.
Albert Hurwood, says...
10:01am Tue 10 Apr 07
Here is another example of what WE are fighting FOR and this odious man is SNEERING at:
"They called it "terroring" and the name was hideously descriptive of what Craig Dodd and Ryan Palin did to David Atherton, a vulnerable man, alone, alcoholic and described as "mentally dysfunctional."
Their "terroring" of this totally defenceless man included pouring bleach, drinks and food onto him, setting his hair on fire, urinating on him, vandalising his flat and inflicting regular beatings, of increasingly savage ferocity.
Dodd, 17, and Palin, 15, described at their trial at Warrington Crown Court, as "feral, wild and untamed," were part of a teenage gang who targeted vulnerable adults in Warrington, Cheshire.
They targeted vulnerable David Atherton and subjected him to months of bullying and torture, and finally, as they later boasted to friends, they "winged him into the water," not a harmless bit of fun as it may sound, but a deliberate act of murder, where, after savagely beating him, they each took an arm and a leg and threw him into the river Mersey where he drowned !
When they were finally brought to trial they were, naturally, allowed to plead guilty to manslaughter, not murder, which meant they could walk free in less than four years !
Four years for subjecting a vulnerable man to months of torture, bullying and beatings, before finally murdering him !
No wonder that Dodd smirked and gave a 'thumbs-up' gesture to friends in the public gallery after being sentenced !
That sneering contempt was his comment on our non-judgemental, non-punishment, do-nothing, "justice" system which spawned them - feral youths, like jungle predators, destroying the most vulnerable in society, while we do nothing to tame or stop them, even when they finally murder !
GET JUSTICE FOR DAVID ATHERTON - JOIN THE NATIONAL VIGILANTE ORGANISATION TODAY !"
That is what WE stand for - But not "ANDY" who is a PAID lefty agitator!
Join Us Today!
www.navigor.org.uk
"They called it "terroring" and the name was hideously descriptive of what Craig Dodd and Ryan Palin did to David Atherton, a vulnerable man, alone, alcoholic and described as "mentally dysfunctional."
Their "terroring" of this totally defenceless man included pouring bleach, drinks and food onto him, setting his hair on fire, urinating on him, vandalising his flat and inflicting regular beatings, of increasingly savage ferocity.
Dodd, 17, and Palin, 15, described at their trial at Warrington Crown Court, as "feral, wild and untamed," were part of a teenage gang who targeted vulnerable adults in Warrington, Cheshire.
They targeted vulnerable David Atherton and subjected him to months of bullying and torture, and finally, as they later boasted to friends, they "winged him into the water," not a harmless bit of fun as it may sound, but a deliberate act of murder, where, after savagely beating him, they each took an arm and a leg and threw him into the river Mersey where he drowned !
When they were finally brought to trial they were, naturally, allowed to plead guilty to manslaughter, not murder, which meant they could walk free in less than four years !
Four years for subjecting a vulnerable man to months of torture, bullying and beatings, before finally murdering him !
No wonder that Dodd smirked and gave a 'thumbs-up' gesture to friends in the public gallery after being sentenced !
That sneering contempt was his comment on our non-judgemental, non-punishment, do-nothing, "justice" system which spawned them - feral youths, like jungle predators, destroying the most vulnerable in society, while we do nothing to tame or stop them, even when they finally murder !
GET JUSTICE FOR DAVID ATHERTON - JOIN THE NATIONAL VIGILANTE ORGANISATION TODAY !"
That is what WE stand for - But not "ANDY" who is a PAID lefty agitator!
Join Us Today!
www.navigor.org.uk
Andy, Bury says...
11:06am Tue 10 Apr 07
If you could arrange for me to be paid to expose BNP supporting crackpots who set up "vigilante" organisations I would be exceedingly grateful Albie. And to quote you that's LIBEL. You see I'm challenging you only because I think you wish not to make our streets safer, but more dangerous. Because that's what vigilantism would do. And, of course, it would suit a BNP agenda.
Funny how you keep ignoring the points I raise though. You know the stuff about your BNP support, the fact that you are, incredulously, the world's first non-vigilante vigilante organisation. The fact that you call for accountability but are unaccountable. The fact that you despise the police. Why not face up to these things Albie?
Funny how you keep ignoring the points I raise though. You know the stuff about your BNP support, the fact that you are, incredulously, the world's first non-vigilante vigilante organisation. The fact that you call for accountability but are unaccountable. The fact that you despise the police. Why not face up to these things Albie?
Albert Hurwood, says...
11:16am Tue 10 Apr 07
Another aricle on our website:
"A Metropolitan PC, Daniel Coffill, who had just finished his police probationary period, was leaving a Bromley night club when two youths asked him for a light for a cannabis joint.
When he refused they beat him so savagely that he will remain in a Persistant Vegetative State for the rest of his life and needs constant 24 hour attention!
The two thugs responsible, teenagers Daniel-Lance Samuels and Jack Turner, were sentenced to 8 and 9 years respectively for GBH, and told they would also serve 4 years on licence when they were released, so they could be sent back to jail if they re-offended.
That sentence alone was an insult to a ruined life, but when it was appealed the "protect a thug" mentality of our obscenely useless judicial system kicked in at full strength, the sentences were called "unduly excessive" and cut to 6 and 7 years - which means they could be out in just 3 years - AND they would NOT be on licence - in other words free and clear for ruining a man's life !
THEY walk free in 3 years - and Daniel Coffill and his parents - who will now have to care for him for life - receive the TRUE life sentence !
No wonder so many thugs simply laugh at both the law and the pathetic victim-hating judges who bend over backwards to show their "touchy-feely" credentials for any piece of scum who come up before them !
They couldn't care less for victims - victims like PC Coffill who cannot talk, breathes through a hole in his throat and is fed through a tube in his stomach - or victims like his mother Margaret, now 50, who has had to give up her job as an office manager and convert the sitting room of her Maidstone home into a bedroom for her injured son.
Mrs Justice Linda Dobbs, who allowed the appeals, said: "We're mindful of the devastating impact this incident has had, both on the victim and on his family."
But not mindful enough to refuse the appeal or give a d**n about the fact that when they support the scum who did this to Daniel Coffill they themselves are WORSE than that scum !
DON'T LET THEM GET AWAY WITH IT - JOIN THE NATIONAL VIGILANTE ORGANISATION TODAY!"
WE care about people like PC COFFILL, betrayed by our useless "justice" system - And being systematically betrayed by scum such as "ANDY" who sneer at anyone trying to help them!
NOT a PAID Lefty, Andy?
Who's paying you NOW?
www.navigor.org.uk
"A Metropolitan PC, Daniel Coffill, who had just finished his police probationary period, was leaving a Bromley night club when two youths asked him for a light for a cannabis joint.
When he refused they beat him so savagely that he will remain in a Persistant Vegetative State for the rest of his life and needs constant 24 hour attention!
The two thugs responsible, teenagers Daniel-Lance Samuels and Jack Turner, were sentenced to 8 and 9 years respectively for GBH, and told they would also serve 4 years on licence when they were released, so they could be sent back to jail if they re-offended.
That sentence alone was an insult to a ruined life, but when it was appealed the "protect a thug" mentality of our obscenely useless judicial system kicked in at full strength, the sentences were called "unduly excessive" and cut to 6 and 7 years - which means they could be out in just 3 years - AND they would NOT be on licence - in other words free and clear for ruining a man's life !
THEY walk free in 3 years - and Daniel Coffill and his parents - who will now have to care for him for life - receive the TRUE life sentence !
No wonder so many thugs simply laugh at both the law and the pathetic victim-hating judges who bend over backwards to show their "touchy-feely" credentials for any piece of scum who come up before them !
They couldn't care less for victims - victims like PC Coffill who cannot talk, breathes through a hole in his throat and is fed through a tube in his stomach - or victims like his mother Margaret, now 50, who has had to give up her job as an office manager and convert the sitting room of her Maidstone home into a bedroom for her injured son.
Mrs Justice Linda Dobbs, who allowed the appeals, said: "We're mindful of the devastating impact this incident has had, both on the victim and on his family."
But not mindful enough to refuse the appeal or give a d**n about the fact that when they support the scum who did this to Daniel Coffill they themselves are WORSE than that scum !
DON'T LET THEM GET AWAY WITH IT - JOIN THE NATIONAL VIGILANTE ORGANISATION TODAY!"
WE care about people like PC COFFILL, betrayed by our useless "justice" system - And being systematically betrayed by scum such as "ANDY" who sneer at anyone trying to help them!
NOT a PAID Lefty, Andy?
Who's paying you NOW?
www.navigor.org.uk
....., BRIGHTON says...
12:04am Thu 2 Aug 07
ledge wrote:
o dear! com on now dis is nuthin stuff like dis happens everyday except people get the **** kicked out o them this was a provoked fight they didnt start it 4 no reason all u talkin bout britain diein. yh britain is dien cuz o war in iraq n ur boverd about summin as little as this god sake!!!
DIS KIDS GOT A GD POINT!! UR SITTIN ON UR ARSES GETTIN UR NICKERS IN A TWIST BOUT A FEW FIGHTS IN TOWN!! IF UR THAT BOTHERD DO SOMETHIN BOUT IT URSELF!! OR DO SOMETHIN BOUT ALL THE WARS IN IRAQ **** SAKE!! U ALL NEED 2 REALISE THIS IS WHAT TEENAGERS LIFES HAVE TURND IN 2 NOW ADAYS!! & Y DO U THINK?!?! KIDS SIT THER & SEE ALL THESES WARS ON THE NEWS WEN THER YUNG & GROW UP THINKIN ITS RYT!! WOT U EXPECT!!
U ALL NEED 2 SIT THER & REALISE WOT KIDS NOWADAYS GO THRU!! ME BEIN 1 MY SELF I NO!! CAN SPK 4 ALL THE 'YOBS' OUT THER!! OUR LIFE ANT EASY AS U ALL SEEM 2 MAKE IT OUT 2 BE!! WE GO THROUGH THE **** OF BULLYIN & IT TURNS US OUT 2 B 1 OF THEM!! JUST GET OVER IT ALL OF U!! REALISE WOT WE GO THRU!!
TRY GIVIN TEENAGE KIDS SOMETHIN 2 DO!! ALL THE ADULTS CAN GO PUB & CLUBS!! WOT HAVE US KIDS GOT 2 DO!! U WONDER Y WE HANG AROUND THE STREETS CAUSIN TROUBLE!! THINK BOUT IT FROM OUR POINT OF U MAYBE U WILL UNDERSTAND THEN AY!!
o dear! com on now dis is nuthin stuff like dis happens everyday except people get the **** kicked out o them this was a provoked fight they didnt start it 4 no reason all u talkin bout britain diein. yh britain is dien cuz o war in iraq n ur boverd about summin as little as this god sake!!!
DIS KIDS GOT A GD POINT!! UR SITTIN ON UR ARSES GETTIN UR NICKERS IN A TWIST BOUT A FEW FIGHTS IN TOWN!! IF UR THAT BOTHERD DO SOMETHIN BOUT IT URSELF!! OR DO SOMETHIN BOUT ALL THE WARS IN IRAQ **** SAKE!! U ALL NEED 2 REALISE THIS IS WHAT TEENAGERS LIFES HAVE TURND IN 2 NOW ADAYS!! & Y DO U THINK?!?! KIDS SIT THER & SEE ALL THESES WARS ON THE NEWS WEN THER YUNG & GROW UP THINKIN ITS RYT!! WOT U EXPECT!!
U ALL NEED 2 SIT THER & REALISE WOT KIDS NOWADAYS GO THRU!! ME BEIN 1 MY SELF I NO!! CAN SPK 4 ALL THE 'YOBS' OUT THER!! OUR LIFE ANT EASY AS U ALL SEEM 2 MAKE IT OUT 2 BE!! WE GO THROUGH THE **** OF BULLYIN & IT TURNS US OUT 2 B 1 OF THEM!! JUST GET OVER IT ALL OF U!! REALISE WOT WE GO THRU!!
TRY GIVIN TEENAGE KIDS SOMETHIN 2 DO!! ALL THE ADULTS CAN GO PUB & CLUBS!! WOT HAVE US KIDS GOT 2 DO!! U WONDER Y WE HANG AROUND THE STREETS CAUSIN TROUBLE!! THINK BOUT IT FROM OUR POINT OF U MAYBE U WILL UNDERSTAND THEN AY!!
chav hater, hell says...
11:43pm Wed 12 Sep 07
moulscomb used to be a proud estate with old values and morals same as whitehawk but these days the"jeremy kylie" mob ie low life chav scum are the result of years of inbreeding between related peoples and the result is ...real scummerrrs....nice people...making a good solid contribution to the world.....yeh right.!!! teenage scum and chav scum are ruining brighton.
brightonian, brighton says...
8:39pm Thu 24 Jan 08
It's the fault of the parents'. If you bring your children up with a conscience it count for a lot. Most kids nowadays have little respect and no emotion that's why they do it. But this is no excuse, if you've had a bad upbringing then you should strive to make things better not sink deeper into the s**t that you are already in!
CCTV footage showing the gang fleeing after the violence
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Mark, Lancs says...
1:46am Mon 26 Mar 07
Our courts are useless, and the government is worse than useless - they would rather turn us all into criminals than do anything about scum like this!
Well I joined Navigor THE NATIONAL VIGILANTE ORGANISATION because of scum like this and our pathetic court system!