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'Basil Fawlty' cafe owner banned our babies

11:53am Tuesday 1st April 2008

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A group of young mums have accused a businessman of being "ruder than Basil Fawlty" after he banned their crying babies from his cafe.

Francis Incorvaja told the women they were not welcome back after some of their tots began bawling as they were about to leave.

Mr Incorvaja defended his actions last night and said he was looking out for the rest of the customers at the Rotunda Cafe in Preston Park Brighton.

But first-time mum Natalie Heyman fumed: "I'm so angry - to refuse mothers in a family park is disgusting."

Natalie and her friends visited the cafe after taking part in a weekly mother and baby exercise class in the park.

The 32-year-old, of Westfield Crescent, Brighton, was with her four-month old daughter, Daisy.

She said the group of seven or eight mums had been in the cafe for about an hour and the babies had been good but as they were starting to leave some began to cry.

She said: "As we were leaving the owner said to us: Thank goodness you're leaving. You turn my customers away.' "I couldn't believe his attitude when he runs a cafe in a family park with changing facilities.

"He was ruder than Basil Fawlty. So I told him we'd be back next week and he said: No you won't, you can go to the other cafe. I won't let you in.'"

Basil Fawlty is the snobbish, miserly, xenophobic and sexually repressed paranoiac misanthrope played by John Cleese in cult 1970s sit com Fawlty Towers.

Basil is desperate to belong to a higher social class and sees the successful running of the Fawlty Towers hotel as a means of achieving this.

Yet his job forces him to be pleasant to people he despises or aspires to be above socially.

Mr Incorvaja, who has leased the cafe from the council for nine years, said one of the babies had been crying for about an hour, causing some of his regular customers to leave.

He said: "I didn't say anything to the group because I didn't want to embarrass them but I think they should have been fair to me too.

"As they were leaving I said thank goodness' in a jokey, but relieved, way and they started arguing with me.

"Eighty per cent of my business comes from families - the business would not survive without them - but I also rely on business from the offices around here, especially in winter, and I can't afford for my customers to be leaving.

"People were looking at me as if to say: Are you going to do something about it?' "I wouldn't have a business in a park if I didn't like children and usually I don't have any problems."

Do you sympathise with Mr Incorvaja or are the mums right to be offended? Leave your comments below.

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Your Say YourThe Argus

Paul, Worthing says...
12:23pm Tue 1 Apr 08

Sounds like six of one and half a dozen of the other. This sort of thing happens everywhere, all the time. How is it suddenly newsworthy?

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modelo1a, Brighton says...
12:28pm Tue 1 Apr 08

Not been in there since they served me a pssi-weak cup of coffee three years ago, and moaned when I asked for my money back. The area is full of mums with babies, so he loses out. The cafe in the middle of Preston park is much friendlier...

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Dave, Preston Park says...
12:29pm Tue 1 Apr 08

Good for him-sitting for an hour in a cafe-it's a business not a mothers meeting room. Prob all sat there with one cup of tea between them, chatting whilst their kids run riot.....

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homer, springfield says...
12:35pm Tue 1 Apr 08

this man is an idiot. if he carries on like this he will have no trade in the summer. of course kids make noise. get a grip. what does he expect? if i was this group of young mums i would find somewhere else to go that was child friendly. most reasonable people would have sympathy with mothers who have crying babies, so those that allegedly left because of the noise are no better than the owner. anyone who has had kids will understand what i mean.

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Peter, brighton says...
12:39pm Tue 1 Apr 08

Well done mate ,,having tried to have a relaxing coffee in the park ,,,l was sick and tired of listening to bored housewives prattling on about Trinny and Suzanna,,or some other boring load of ****,whilst Tabatha,Sunset,Lenti
l or Mingbean sat screaming ,mummy being totally oblivious to her sceeching child ,,,Good for you mate ,,,maybe now parents will realise its not all about them and their selfish needs .

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jen love, hove says...
12:43pm Tue 1 Apr 08

I as a mother of 2 hate when i go somewhere and their are babies crying. the shop owner has a right to keep his customers happy by asking them to leave.

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No, Way says...
1:12pm Tue 1 Apr 08

fed up of mums trying to blame others for their lack of parenting skills. why dont you take some responsibility for once and control your child???

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Tammy Lillette, Brighton says...
1:23pm Tue 1 Apr 08

Mr. Incorvaja should bar them for life for causing trouble and being abusive. Talk about a storm in a tea shop.

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Marty, Hove says...
1:43pm Tue 1 Apr 08

It is a shame that park cafes are now swamped with yummy mummies and faddy daddies. The Garden Cafe in St Ann's Wells Gardens is like a creche all day. The parents allow the kids to scream and run wild - I have seen a child cycling indoors. When you ask for some quiet the parents shrug their shoulders as if they have no power to enforce good behaviour. It is unbearble and I no longer eat there. Everyone should have consideration for others around them and be aware of the impact they and their children are having. Yes, it is difficult as kids are boisterous but the parents need to be firmer. Teach them manners.

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qweqwe, says...
1:51pm Tue 1 Apr 08

It's not about 'controlling your child' there were babies, and guess what - babies cry!... duh..
The man is obviously a basil faulty (but not funny)

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The Wombat, Zog says...
2:15pm Tue 1 Apr 08

The comment saying it's probably six-of-one etc. is likely to be the most accurate.

The guy is running a business and is quite within his rights, presumably, to have whom he wishes in his cafeteria. He must be the judge of whether his trade will increase or decrease following his actions.

The only surprise to me is that none of the mothers has mentioned human rights and Strasburg, the normal recourse for those who fail to get their own way these days.

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Muffin 2p, Brighton says...
2:24pm Tue 1 Apr 08

Too many people put up with listening to the constant racket because they're afraid of offending. Fair enough when the parent is trying to soothe the child and makes an effort to quieten them but personally I'm sick of putting up with most cafes these days being full of screaming children.

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jo, haywards heath says...
2:29pm Tue 1 Apr 08

I suspect the parents' attitudes have a little to do with the cafe owners decision. I doubt he gets cross with all crying babies but ultimately there are good parents and bad parents and he's probably right to try and alienate the bad ones in order to maintain a balanced customer base of families and lucrative office workers.

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Suz, Stoke-on-Trent says...
2:30pm Tue 1 Apr 08

From a woman's point of view, I have to say well done to the cafe owner! We don't all think babies are cute....

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Moon Pig, Brighton says...
2:33pm Tue 1 Apr 08

I wouldn't have stayed longer than 20 mins if a baby was screaming. We can all tolerate a bit, and I do think we ought to, but an hour is excessive. I would have been completely mortified if my child screamed for that long in public!
While we all appreciate that babies make noise I do think parents have some responsibility to make sure their kids aren't disturbing other people, even if they are babies. If they couldn't settle the baby they probably should have taken him or her home rather than staying there and continuing their coffee.. sometimes we have to do stuff like that because of kids, it's just the way of life.
As for the older kids, well, there's no excuse for parents not keeping them under control. That is their duty as a parent!!

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Dave, Hove says...
2:55pm Tue 1 Apr 08

What a selfish woman - surely after a while she might have some consideration for others who don't want to listen to her brat screaming for an hour. Okay all babies cry - of course, but that doesn't mean you should subject others to the racket for over an hour.

You chose to have the kid, you deal with it.
Too many parents these days shirking their responsilities.

No wonder this country's going to the dogs, kids gettin drunk and stabbing each other - Start when they're young and as you mean to go on.

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Flat Foot Soozie, Brunswick Square says...
2:59pm Tue 1 Apr 08

first-time mum Natalie Heyman fumed: "I'm so angry - to refuse mothers in a family park is disgusting."

Well Natalie Heyman - you obviously have no experience as a mother - and you obviously need others to tell you how these things work - you have no right to subject others to this noise pollution. Basic common manners and courtesy dictate this!

Wheeras of course i can subject others to my diatribe all day long cos i'm FFS, Queen of the Quote.

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mr punch, brighton seafront says...
3:15pm Tue 1 Apr 08

Throw em out, all of em! Bloody women and kids are a pain in the backside, all they ever do is scream and moan and then scram some more and then when this nice man tells em to bugger off they all scream and moan some more! Hit em on the head with a rolling pin, that's the way to do it!

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vicky pollard, in my council flat, innit? says...
3:17pm Tue 1 Apr 08

no but, yeah but, no but, yeah but. no. if this is what they call news these days, it's getting dire. get a thermos flask, it's cheaper so it saves your benefit cash for more important things, like cigarettes and lottery tickets.

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wheeze, hove says...
3:19pm Tue 1 Apr 08

I cant believe some of the comments here.

BABIES CRY AND CHILDREN ARE NOISY - its not rocket science for Christ sakes!

It has nothing to do with good or bad parenting. Kids are noisy. Always have been and always will be. If you don't like it, go somewhere without kids. Simple.

To Dave, FFS etc.. e - i assume you made no noise when you were kids and were perfectly well behaved all the time? Perhaps you could share some of your wisdom on how to make children be quiet and well behaved all the time?

If you don’t like it then stay at home sitting in your soiled pants in front of the computer all day making snidey comments on the forum to make yourself feel a little more worthwhile in your pathetic existence?
(oh...you already do, sorry)

These mothers should be applauded for actually taking their babies out to socialise with other children. It’s the mums who sit at home all day ignoring their children who are the bad parents.

As for the café owner….perhaps you should look for a job in a library?

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Richard, Brighton says...
3:23pm Tue 1 Apr 08

Dave wrote:
What a selfish woman - surely after a while she might have some consideration for others who don't want to listen to her brat screaming for an hour. Okay all babies cry - of course, but that doesn't mean you should subject others to the racket for over an hour. You chose to have the kid, you deal with it. Too many parents these days shirking their responsilities. No wonder this country's going to the dogs, kids gettin drunk and stabbing each other - Start when they're young and as you mean to go on.
I agree too, it's so selfish to other people there wanting a quiet cup of tea. It's just bad as people taking their babies on a plane. No actually that is worse, as there is no escape from it!! At least you can walk out of a cafe!! Can't these mothers take control of their kids???!!

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wheeze, hove says...
3:44pm Tue 1 Apr 08

Add Richard to the list of people who either

a. never cried as a baby

or

b. Had parents who had the superhuman ability to stop a baby from crying at a whim.

Quite incredible. Maybe you could share the secret of a silent baby with us? I'm sure the midwives at the Royal Sussex would love to know how you do it.

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helen Keller, lost again says...
3:46pm Tue 1 Apr 08

I was as quiet as a mouse when I was a child, occasionally I would read a waffle to myself.

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Bella, Brighton says...
3:51pm Tue 1 Apr 08

wheeze wrote:
I cant believe some of the comments here. BABIES CRY AND CHILDREN ARE NOISY - its not rocket science for Christ sakes! It has nothing to do with good or bad parenting. Kids are noisy. Always have been and always will be. If you don't like it, go somewhere without kids. Simple. To Dave, FFS etc.. e - i assume you made no noise when you were kids and were perfectly well behaved all the time? Perhaps you could share some of your wisdom on how to make children be quiet and well behaved all the time? If you don’t like it then stay at home sitting in your soiled pants in front of the computer all day making snidey comments on the forum to make yourself feel a little more worthwhile in your pathetic existence? (oh...you already do, sorry) These mothers should be applauded for actually taking their babies out to socialise with other children. It’s the mums who sit at home all day ignoring their children who are the bad parents. As for the café owner….perhaps you should look for a job in a library?
Oh dear - you're so easy to wind up - you're so busy getting on your high horse you didn't even bother to read FFS's comment in it's entirety.

IT'S SOMEONE ON A WIND-UP YOU SILLY PERSON.

Go Away. And take the noisy babies with you.

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mr punch, brighton seafront says...
3:52pm Tue 1 Apr 08

Wheez, you must be a woman because you're moaning all the time, that's two posts you've put up in quick succession and you're whinging in both of them. Maybe these mums should open their own cafe where kids can scream all they like and then see what it feels like.

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wheeze, hove says...
3:57pm Tue 1 Apr 08

@ mr punch

Wrong. I'm a bloke.

And how am i "moaning"?

Surely its all the miserable self-righteous child-haters who are moaning, no?

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T.Ruth, Worthing says...
4:03pm Tue 1 Apr 08

wheeze wrote:
@ mr punch Wrong. I\'m a bloke. And how am i \"moaning\"? Surely its all the miserable self-righteous child-haters who are moaning, no?
You still didn't bother to read the posts properly before dishing out your tuppence worth...

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wheeze, hove says...
4:10pm Tue 1 Apr 08

@ T.Ruth

what part of mr punch's post have i misread?

*confused*

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Old Ale Drinker, near the bar @ the Mitre says...
4:18pm Tue 1 Apr 08

I used to fake a good cry when I were a dustbin lid, that way my mum would come outside the pub top my bottle up with stout and say shutyer whinging and get that down yer neck, I'd soon doss off in the pram. couldn't do that nowadays some whinging doogooder be on to them social workers tellin em I should be on the white stuff. Anyway well done to that cafe owner bloody bitsa kids I wenter war for that lot and their stupid muvers.

Bring back the birch I say. It's that bludee Harold Wilsons fault. Bludee Commy.

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mr punch, brighton seafront says...
4:19pm Tue 1 Apr 08

Flat foot, hows about i come around brunswick square tonight with a six pack and me truncheon and we can make some babies and then gag the little sweeties and abandon them in preston park.
Easy wheezy!

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Kickboxer, worthing says...
4:20pm Tue 1 Apr 08

Flat Foot Soozie wrote:
first-time mum Natalie Heyman fumed: "I'm so angry - to refuse mothers in a family park is disgusting." Well Natalie Heyman - you obviously have no experience as a mother - and you obviously need others to tell you how these things work - you have no right to subject others to this noise pollution. Basic common manners and courtesy dictate this! Wheeras of course i can subject others to my diatribe all day long cos i'm FFS, Queen of the Quote.
well done, got your name on the internet again for no particular reason .

you should check the facts, just for a change, and perhaps if you were a mother in the same sitaution you'd have the same feelings. Nothing useful to post then, for a change, we'd rather you didn't bother.

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Vic, Ferring says...
4:24pm Tue 1 Apr 08

Good on you mums for sending in the paper. People are too quick to judge mothers and call us bad parents just because our baby is crying or not sitting down properly. If the cafe welcomes families, then the other customers should heedthe warning that children do cry and don't stop when asked!

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Kickboxer, Worthing says...
4:25pm Tue 1 Apr 08

the above post is by an imposter.

I agree with FFS actually.

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tracy, brighton says...
4:28pm Tue 1 Apr 08

It's about respect for other customers. no-one wants to sit in a cafe with babies crying and screaming. to be fair, There's no harm in just taking the baby outside while the baby calms down for a few minutes.

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Vic, Ferring says...
4:30pm Tue 1 Apr 08

An imposter ehh!!


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Mrs Doyle, West Sussex says...
4:36pm Tue 1 Apr 08

I think the cafe owner showed some real guts in saying something probably most of his customers wanted to say. When are all these not-so-yummy mummies going to realise that taking over every cafe and restaurant in Brighton & Hove, and making them into noisy, undisciplined creches is actually a form of anti-social behaviour? Makes you wonder why they don't all meet round each other's homes, instead of inflicting misery and irritation on everyone else...

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Jamba Juice, Briton says...
4:36pm Tue 1 Apr 08

Good on you cafe owning fellow! Whining kids and the snooty Brighton mum's will only put off the customers for your over-priced weak coffee. They are proberly all single mum's anyway.

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JJ, Worthing says...
4:42pm Tue 1 Apr 08

Too right, i'm with the cafe owner, constantly crying babies and over boisterous tots just get in your tits and ruin your relaxation.

Fine babies do cry but the examples of modern parenting i have seen amount to just letting then get on with it with **** all consideration for other people.

Modern middle class bohemian brightonian parenting - sort yourselves out you vacuous idiots!!

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johnny dross, Brighton says...
4:47pm Tue 1 Apr 08

Lets have some middle ground here - yes, it can be annoying when babies cry constantly, and yes sometimes there are parents who become oblivious to the sound of that crying. However, in this case, it seems as though it all got out of hand. If this guy has made a stand against this particular group of mums, fine, but it is only going to bite him on the backside as he and many other cafes around Brighton rely on these mums to prop up their businesses, so he risks isolating these customers. However, on a completely different note, I have to say the the decor and food at the Rotunda is pretty awful, so if he wants to attract more business a lock of paint and a more exciting menu than 'the builders breakfast' would be a start. If you want a decent breakfast, go ta Carats in Shorehan Harbour...

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johnny dross, Brighton says...
4:48pm Tue 1 Apr 08

...or even a lick of paint...

(Why cant the Argus give us an edit feature?)

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Brian Mann, Brighton says...
5:04pm Tue 1 Apr 08

I would ban all babies if it was me. Let them play with the traffic in Preston Drove.

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CT, At Home with 2 loud children says...
5:49pm Tue 1 Apr 08

Dave wrote:
What a selfish woman - surely after a while she might have some consideration for others who don't want to listen to her brat screaming for an hour. Okay all babies cry - of course, but that doesn't mean you should subject others to the racket for over an hour. You chose to have the kid, you deal with it. Too many parents these days shirking their responsilities. No wonder this country's going to the dogs, kids gettin drunk and stabbing each other - Start when they're young and as you mean to go on.
Oh dear. How OTT. Dave obviously doesn't have children - Always the people with strong opinons who have no idea of the reality of everyday life with a baby. Did you not cry as a baby? Are you an axe murderer?

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jojo, btn says...
5:52pm Tue 1 Apr 08

well done cafe owner!!its a cafe not a play group, go to mcdonalds parents thats what its for

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liz, brighton says...
5:54pm Tue 1 Apr 08

how wonderful, i wish starbucks would do the same, or at least take out the toys, nothing is worse then going in for a coffee, and you have babies everywhere,

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liz, brighton says...
5:55pm Tue 1 Apr 08

how wonderful, i wish starbucks would do the same, or at least take out the toys, nothing is worse then going in for a coffee, and you have babies everywhere,

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liz, brighton says...
5:56pm Tue 1 Apr 08

CT wrote:
Dave wrote:
What a selfish woman - surely after a while she might have some consideration for others who don\'t want to listen to her brat screaming for an hour. Okay all babies cry - of course, but that doesn\'t mean you should subject others to the racket for over an hour. You chose to have the kid, you deal with it. Too many parents these days shirking their responsilities. No wonder this country\'s going to the dogs, kids gettin drunk and stabbing each other - Start when they\'re young and as you mean to go on.
Oh dear. How OTT. Dave obviously doesn\'t have children - Always the people with strong opinons who have no idea of the reality of everyday life with a baby. Did you not cry as a baby? Are you an axe murderer?
we have had our children, and did not bring them up in starbucks thankyou

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Sue, Hove says...
6:12pm Tue 1 Apr 08

Mothers should be more respectful of other customers and not take all the seats in the cafe. They are rude and they are certainly lacking in parental responsibility. I wish other restaurants would take action over other selfish mothers.

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Isabella, Hove actually says...
6:48pm Tue 1 Apr 08

Look at the picture - If those babies are "running riot" then they must be the most advanced tots on the planet. They can't be any more than a couple of months old.
And if any mother lets her baby cry for an hour without stopping them or leaving of her own accord, I am yet to see one - Why do most posts believe the cafe owner who is clearly trying to wriggle out of a potentially damaging situation?

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Sarah, Brighton says...
7:17pm Tue 1 Apr 08

Read the article properly people! The babies only started to cry as they were leaving - surely not a problem to anyone in a family cafe?!? And slamming single mothers? Shouldn't you be reading The Daily Mail and not The Argus?!?

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Dave Young, Brighton says...
7:24pm Tue 1 Apr 08

To the single Mum 2nd from the left - give me a call sometime x

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Stu, Hove says...
7:27pm Tue 1 Apr 08

So thats where all those screaming babies come from that always seem to be on my flights whenever I try and take a nice peaceful trip anywhere! Good on you Mr Incorvaja!

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Jamba Juice, Briton says...
7:31pm Tue 1 Apr 08

Sarah wrote:
Read the article properly people! The babies only started to cry as they were leaving - surely not a problem to anyone in a family cafe?!? And slamming single mothers? Shouldn't you be reading The Daily Mail and not The Argus?!?
Read the article properly Sarah!

"Mr Incorvaja, who has leased the cafe from the council for nine years, said one of the babies had been crying for about an hour, causing some of his regular customers to leave."

Isabella - owner wriggling out? I think not - the owner is entirely within his rights to mutter about his customers as they leave, or indeed to refuse them entry. Frankly I think that coven should think themselves grateful that anywhere will serve them at all.

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Isabella, HoveI says...
7:36pm Tue 1 Apr 08

Dear Jizzy Juice,
I didn't realise "Briton" was Daily Mail country....

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A-Dam, Brighton says...
7:46pm Tue 1 Apr 08

The sort of mothers who impose their badly behaved brats on others are those that selfishly take the **** out of others that support them while they swan around on "Improving Working Lives" contracts and drain our taxes. Have some consideration you lot, take your kid round the corner and give it a slap!

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mum who visits cafes sometimes, Hove says...
9:01pm Tue 1 Apr 08

My little girl is 2 and always been delightfully behaved in cafes / restaurants / planes even when a tiny babe in arms. On the VERY rare occasions where she has become noisy or uncontrollable in a place such as a cafe or restaurant I have packed up and left and removed us from the situation. I don't believe its right to inflict badly behaved kids on the public who have a right to a peaceful pleasant meal or drink. I would say all of my friends would do the same. However I have seen some very selfish parents out and about including changing poopy nappies IN a cafe. As a former air stewardess I saw a lot of this bad behaviour on flights and I would say this type of lax parenting is definitely more common in middle class mums and dads. But don't be too hard on mums out with babies; my very meagre maternity pay when on leave from my job meant that one cappucino in a cafe was all I could afford for myself in a week. thats why its made to last an hour!! I don't blame the cafe owner though.

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Flat Foot Soozie, Brunswick Square says...
9:41pm Tue 1 Apr 08

Flat Foot Soozie wrote:
first-time mum Natalie Heyman fumed: "I'm so angry - to refuse mothers in a family park is disgusting."

Well Natalie Heyman - you obviously have no experience as a mother - and you obviously need others to tell you how these things work - you have no right to subject others to this noise pollution. Basic common manners and courtesy dictate this!

Wheeras of course i can subject others to my diatribe all day long cos i'm FFS, Queen of the Quote.
Not my comment, of course.

May the impostor's eyes cloud over.

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Jizzy Juice, Briton says...
9:56pm Tue 1 Apr 08

Isabella wrote:
Dear Jizzy Juice,
I didn't realise "Briton" was Daily Mail country....
Yes, it's just near HoveI.

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Alan G Skinner, Brighton says...
10:29pm Tue 1 Apr 08

Who cares, why is this in the papers... slow news day perhaps?
A more interesting article might include, why the NHS is so bad, why are terrorists and illegal immigrants are allowed to strole around unchecked and why has the government allowed parts of our country to become no go areas... etc etc.

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IKDRF, Sussex says...
10:38pm Tue 1 Apr 08

Basil Fawlty indeed,they need a **** good thrashing...why dont these mothers dine closer to the sea..preferably in it..i mean preston park cafe is hardly the hanging gardens of babylon is it...oh morning major....

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Kickboxer, worthing says...
11:44pm Tue 1 Apr 08

Flat Foot Soozie wrote:
Flat Foot Soozie wrote: first-time mum Natalie Heyman fumed: "I'm so angry - to refuse mothers in a family park is disgusting." Well Natalie Heyman - you obviously have no experience as a mother - and you obviously need others to tell you how these things work - you have no right to subject others to this noise pollution. Basic common manners and courtesy dictate this! Wheeras of course i can subject others to my diatribe all day long cos i'm FFS, Queen of the Quote.
Not my comment, of course. May the impostor's eyes cloud over.
never is, is it ?

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Preston Pk resident, Preston Park says...
11:50pm Tue 1 Apr 08

i hate screaming kids, and i hate mothers that dont care about them screaming even more

this is obviously a very sensible cafe owner

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Flat Foot Soozie, Brunswick Square says...
11:57pm Tue 1 Apr 08

hate screaming kids, and i hate mothers that dont care about them screaming even more

typically why Preston Park residents are treated as the 'red-necks' of Brighton. Now go marry yer sister, boy !

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S, Sussex says...
12:22am Wed 2 Apr 08

These mothers obviously don't think very much of their babies if they think the babies want to spend an hour plus in a not very nice café surrounded by bored mothers gossiping about inane drivel. And clearly they couldn't give two hoots about the café proprietor, the café staff and the café's other customers. Sounds like they're a selfish bunch and deserve their exclusion. But what I don't understand is why anyone wants to frequent The Rotunda anyway - the food is, IMHO, overpriced and the hot drinks are overpriced dishwater.

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FRED, worthing says...
8:04am Wed 2 Apr 08

Nasty little screaming br*ts.Give "em something to cry for.I have been in that park. Mostly single parents.Typical!

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Mr Harry, brighton says...
8:13am Wed 2 Apr 08

Quite right Fred.No father to control the kids,and without a dought, future asbos. If those sad mothers cant control their children at 3 or 4mts old,what chance have later in life without a father.

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Sarah, Brighton says...
8:16am Wed 2 Apr 08

Am horrified that so many bigots reside in our supposedly open city. It appears the babies starting crying as they were being packed up to leave and the mothers got it in the ear from a miserable old sod - single mothers, bad parents? WTF?

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Sarah, Brighton says...
8:19am Wed 2 Apr 08

Good point Mr Harry?!? Reckon the Dads should give up work and the whole family live on benefits so they can chaperone their babies for coffee trips to the park during the week. Idiot...

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JOHNBOY, brighton says...
8:37am Wed 2 Apr 08

A Sat night out, a few cocktails, and twelve mts later we all have to suffer. Why should we have to put up with your kids screaming? If you put your baby to bed, would you want your neighbour to start banging about? NO! so dont expect nice people to put up with half a dozen wailing kids. THANK YOU.

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A Long Time Ago, brighton says...
8:54am Wed 2 Apr 08

I remember, a long time ago,that in the same cafe, a bird got her "lil" out to feed her baby. The owner asked her to move to the corner as other people were complaining. The next day the cafe was surrounded by 200 screaming dykes, supporting womans rights.The council were going to take the owners licence away. I dont know what that has to do with this?

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Stroller, Hove says...
9:24am Wed 2 Apr 08

"Basil Fawlty is the snobbish, miserly, xenophobic and sexually repressed paranoiac misanthrope played by John Cleese in cult 1970s sit com Fawlty Towers. Basil is desperate to belong to a higher social class and sees the successful running of the Fawlty Towers hotel as a means of achieving this.Yet his job forces him to be pleasant to people he despises or aspires to be above socially."

Why does the Argus think it necessary to give this much of an article to explaining who Basil Fawlty is?

What next? "Hamlet, was the prince of Denmark. Troubled by his father's death, he..."


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Moon Pig, Brighton says...
9:59am Wed 2 Apr 08

They didn't even write that part themselves, Stroller...

http://en.wikipedia.
org/wiki/Basil_Fawlt
y


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Big Cheese, Peacehaven says...
10:14am Wed 2 Apr 08

Moon Pig wrote:
They didn't even write that part themselves, Stroller...

http://en.wikipedia.
org/wiki/Basil_Fawlt
y

Shocking. How long will newspapers last if this is what they are reduced to doing?

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jasper, Brighton says...
10:18am Wed 2 Apr 08

It is clear that this famously moody cafe owner has written a few of his own comments here. Ask him for a tap water and see what he says.
These babies are so young and the idea that they could cause such disruption it just silly. It Is a family park after all... surely the English attitude of seen and not heard is a bit pre war! but then i can imagine most of these comments are from people with not much time left and too much time on their hands. peace. Maybe that cafe owner needs a career change.... 9 years is a long time to be banging out **** coffees

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Eddie, Bathroom says...
10:36am Wed 2 Apr 08

Great stuff Mr Incorvaja. Who needs baby puke when your trying to enjoy a coffee and bun? Cafes should take note, maybe putting posters up banning the little tykes might help.

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macca, brighton says...
10:43am Wed 2 Apr 08

Flat Foot Soozie wrote:
hate screaming kids, and i hate mothers that dont care about them screaming even more typically why Preston Park residents are treated as the 'red-necks' of Brighton. Now go marry yer sister, boy !
love it i love it girl ,the best ever

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Flat Foot Soozie, Brunswick Square says...
10:51am Wed 2 Apr 08

macca wrote:
Flat Foot Soozie wrote:
hate screaming kids, and i hate mothers that dont care about them screaming even more typically why Preston Park residents are treated as the 'red-necks' of Brighton. Now go marry yer sister, boy !
love it i love it girl ,the best ever
That was not my post.

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Sarah Devine, Preston Park, Brighton says...
10:57am Wed 2 Apr 08

As a regular user of the PP Cafe, I know for a fact that Mr. ("Best Full English Breakfast in Brighton") Incorvaja is actually remarkably tolerant ..... I've been there on a number of occasions and seen mothers just sitting there completely unconcerned about their offspring running around shouting, knocking things over and causing mayhem. It's not unique in that location either - at the Preston Park Tavern, I've experienced out-of-control kids using the leather sofas as trampolines, actually jumping over us while we were sitting there. I haven't be been back to that pub since, so yes, it does affect trade. It's basically a matter of consideration. As a first time mum, Natalie Heyman may think the world revolves around her infant - but the reality is that it doesn't. She and her friends should learn to be more considerate (don't they teach this at parenting classes ??) - and I say that with the experience of having brought up two children myself.


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Eco Man, Kemp Town says...
11:03am Wed 2 Apr 08

Moon Pig wrote:
They didn't even write that part themselves, Stroller...

http://en.wikipedia.
org/wiki/Basil_Fawlt
y

This is terrible. People buy a newspaper for something newsworthy. Bad enough to presume that readers are so stupid that they need to be told who Basil Fawlty is but even worse that it's lifted wholesale from wikipedia.

Doesn't look as if Emily-Ann is prepared to do any legwork. Why the two names?


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S, Sussex says...
11:07am Wed 2 Apr 08

I have no problem with babies per se, just with inconsiderate, self-centred so-called parents who don't take proper responsibility for their own progeny and expect the rest of us to like it or lump it without a murmur. Mr. Incorvaja's food and coffee may be mediocre and over-priced, but full marks to him for having the courage to challenge the entirely selfish attitude of some parents.

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Whylie D. Truthful Scribe, A garret in Brighthelmstone says...
11:18am Wed 2 Apr 08

Journalist or plagiarist, Emily-Ann Elliott ? Are you on work experience ? First, find a proper story and then learn how to write it, without copying chunks verbatim out of Wikipedia and presenting it as your own work. Do you actually know what xenophobia means .... ?? Just how is Mr. Incorvaja xenophobic ? Please enlighten us.

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Prestondrover, Preston Park says...
11:23am Wed 2 Apr 08

Good for him, perhaps i'll start to go back there again. I get fed up with all the exiled London "yummy mummy's" clogging up Preston Park with their buggies and 4x4's. Well done Mr Incorvaja

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bob, lewes says...
11:35am Wed 2 Apr 08

Modern parenting, e.g letting your child express itself unrestricted so as not to limit its development to the complete disregrd to others is probably one of the reasons we are in a mess and accounts for much of the observations and irritation aired here.

i hope in a few years to come people will come to their senses and realise that this attitude along no doubt with thier 4x4 ego chariots were just a sign that society was becoming sick and materialistic obsessed.

Everone just wants to act as they wish and havedo what they want -i'm for freedom but its gone too far.




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Flat Foot Soozie, Brunswick Square says...
11:35am Wed 2 Apr 08

I am reminded of the moment in Fawlty Towers when the awful mother tells Basil Fawlty that her obnoxious son is "highly strung" and Basil replies, "he certainly should be."

Mr Incorvaja could use a version of that.

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Steve, Lewes says...
11:38am Wed 2 Apr 08

I'm a father of three and I back his actions. He is running a business. The babies would not be having anything that cost money, the mothers would be taking up a lot of space - their prescence was costing him customers and income. He is within his rights to not allow them in. What is the problem?

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Sarah, Brighton says...
12:45pm Wed 2 Apr 08

Truly predictable how the majority of posters have believed the cafe owner and used it as a chance to voice their own views on motherhood. All have been very quick to label the mothers selfish without believing that they took their children out when they started crying and got abuse from a man widely recognised to be grumpy and charmless. As for Sarah Devine and 'mum who visits cafes sometimes', I can't decide what is more irritating - screaming babies or smug, judgemental mothers!

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Moon Pig, Brighton says...
1:46pm Wed 2 Apr 08

The kid was crying for ages, read the article!
I would hardly call that abuse. He is entitled to his opinion, as are the rest of us. Why shouldn't we agree with him, you talk as if you think we are wrong to agree?

As for Emily-Ann, have you checked Wiki's policy on sharing the info contained within, here's a link you might find useful:
http://en.wikipedia.
org/wiki/GNU_Free_Do
cumentation_License

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mum who visits cafes sometimes, Hove says...
2:04pm Wed 2 Apr 08

Sarah wrote:
Truly predictable how the majority of posters have believed the cafe owner and used it as a chance to voice their own views on motherhood. All have been very quick to label the mothers selfish without believing that they took their children out when they started crying and got abuse from a man widely recognised to be grumpy and charmless. As for Sarah Devine and 'mum who visits cafes sometimes', I can't decide what is more irritating - screaming babies or smug, judgemental mothers!
Have you got kids? Just for your information I was brought up to be mindful and considerate to others, opening doors for older or less able people, giving up seats on buses etc. I have brought up my daughter with the same manners. Hopefully not like the kids and adults who take up all the seats on buses when old people and pregnant women are standing, or generally behave with no consideration for others wherever they are. I am very sorry that you see this as smug and judgemental. As you can see from most of the posts above, when you have got kids in tow you are pretty much hated wherever you go. You just make the best of it. At least if more people had manners and consideration society would be a better place don't you agree ?

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Sue, Brighton says...
2:53pm Wed 2 Apr 08

I believe children should been seen and not heard but, preferably not seen either. That's what cupboards are for!

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Dave, Hove says...
3:13pm Wed 2 Apr 08

Sarah wrote:
" As for Sarah Devine and 'mum who visits cafes sometimes', I can't decide what is more irritating - screaming babies or smug, judgemental mothers!"

No contest - I can ignore smug, judgemental mothers.

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Keeshond8, Brighton says...
3:28pm Wed 2 Apr 08

Having just seen a local TV news report featuring these mothers, at least one of them came across as arrogant and overbearing - bridling and bristling at the mere suggestion that they might be inconveniencing other
customers. They virtually admitted to having every right to use the cafe as a kindergarden after going to the gym.

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Anneks, Shoreham by Sea says...
3:29pm Wed 2 Apr 08

As an early years teacher I am disgusted by the views discussed in this blog, with many of you describing childhood as evil as illustrated in the contemporary movies "Poltergeist" and "Damian". Children should be seen and not heard?! We are in 2008 – not Medieval times when childhood did not exist. One of these “yummy mummies” is a very good friend of mine who frequents to the park to get fit through ‘buggy running’ and discuss parenting issues with fellow new mums. A picture has been painted that these women are single parents driving 4x4 cars when in fact they meet on foot whilst their boyfriends or husbands are working and work out in the FAMILY park! The truth of the matter is that after a 20 minute coffee break one very young baby started to cry as they left-not for an hour! It sounds as though the nicknamed Basil Fawlty has changed the story for sympathy and has backtracked. I agree with Jasper who stated,
‘These babies are so young and the idea that they could cause such disruption it just silly. It is a family park after all!’

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Yeah, right, a friend of one of them says...
3:36pm Wed 2 Apr 08

Anneks wrote:
As an early years teacher I am disgusted by the views discussed in this blog, with many of you describing childhood as evil as illustrated in the contemporary movies "Poltergeist" and "Damian". Children should be seen and not heard?! We are in 2008 – not Medieval times when childhood did not exist. One of these “yummy mummies” is a very good friend of mine who frequents to the park to get fit through ‘buggy running’ and discuss parenting issues with fellow new mums. A picture has been painted that these women are single parents driving 4x4 cars when in fact they meet on foot whilst their boyfriends or husbands are working and work out in the FAMILY park! The truth of the matter is that after a 20 minute coffee break one very young baby started to cry as they left-not for an hour! It sounds as though the nicknamed Basil Fawlty has changed the story for sympathy and has backtracked. I agree with Jasper who stated, ‘These babies are so young and the idea that they could cause such disruption it just silly. It is a family park after all!’
*Yawn*
Sorry, did somebody squeak?

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Moon Pig, Brighton says...
3:41pm Wed 2 Apr 08

"I agree with Jasper who stated,
‘These babies are so young and the idea that they could cause such disruption it just silly. It is a family park after all!’"

I would challenge that statement. Finding the noise disruptive is down to the individual. You can't assume just because YOU don't care, that no one else would.

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Anneka, shoreham says...
4:00pm Wed 2 Apr 08

Moon Pig everyone has the right to sit in a cafe, the question is why should it be that the mums and babies have been 'barred' so to speak in favour of the few that dont want to hear a whimper from a newly born. Customers should make the decision to stay or leave not be told by the owner to get out because their baby is crying. Disgusting.

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Denis Rice, Preston Park says...
4:02pm Wed 2 Apr 08

These ladies should be applauded for exercising outside and taking their children and be supported for it - not ctiticised. I for one will be cheering them on and, though local, will not use the Rotunda again. Let's be realistic - babies do cry and mothers do their best to calm them. The more these families use our outdoor environment the better, so we can drive away the thugs, drug dealers and, of course, the grouches!

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Ben McClane, Brighton says...
4:19pm Wed 2 Apr 08

Children cry, it doesn’t matter if you’re a bad parent or a good parent, they will still cry. I think we should all look at societies such as Italy where children are welcomed everywhere and there’s more of a family culture and try and be more like that and don’t let a little bit of crying annoy you, remember you were kids once. To accuse these mother’s of being bad parents simply because they were enjoying themselves is very narrow minded to say the least. By allowing their babies to be in contact with other babies and by meeting with other mothers and by taking their children to mother and baby exercise classes actually shows good parenting skills and should be commended.

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jack, brighton says...
4:31pm Wed 2 Apr 08

Maternity leave pay, family allowance, tax credits, income support, we pay for them to be useless parents. No doubt in a few years time the brats will underage drinkers in the park, and the parents will be whinging there is nothing for them to do. They will be having special needs lessons in school, but never read a book at home ...

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anneka, shoreham says...
4:42pm Wed 2 Apr 08

You're completely missing the point jack, these mums are not useless parents for having a baby that cries. Jesus christ are you saying you never cried as a child in a public area?! And what does fmily allowance and tax credits etc have to do with it?! If they were on these benefits (Which they arent't), why does that mean that they are worse mothers?

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Anneka, is a pain in the whatsit says...
4:46pm Wed 2 Apr 08

Anneka wrote:
Moon Pig everyone has the right to sit in a cafe, the question is why should it be that the mums and babies have been 'barred' so to speak in favour of the few that dont want to hear a whimper from a newly born. Customers should make the decision to stay or leave not be told by the owner to get out because their baby is crying. Disgusting.
A WHIMPER?????
What the hell are you talking about you fool?
A whimper, nobody would bat an eyelid at but where did it say 'whimper'?
By the way, the OWNER has every right to do what he did, after all, he's the OWNER...yes?!!!

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mother superior, Brighton says...
4:55pm Wed 2 Apr 08

There is only one thing worse than a non stop screaming kid, and that is a 'chip on the shoulder' single mum who thinks its her birth rite to let her brat annoy everyone else. The fact that you want a kid (or at least ended up with one) doesnt mean other people want to be constantly reminded that on that fatefull day you didnt use a condom

Having had a look at the picture, i am buying 6 brown paper bags, and 6 plastic bags (only 5 of each are needed, but best to have spares)

The brown paper bags are for the 'mothers' to put over their heads, and the plastic bags are for the noisy brats to play with . . .

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Sue, Hove says...
5:00pm Wed 2 Apr 08

laughin at 'Mother superior'!

thats the funniest yet!

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anneka, shoreham says...
5:07pm Wed 2 Apr 08

http://news.bbc.co.u
k/player/nol/newsid_
7320000/newsid_73269
00/7326934.stm?bw=bb
&mp=wm&news=1&bbcws=
1

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Urgh!, says...
5:19pm Wed 2 Apr 08

anneka wrote:
http://news.bbc.co.u k/player/nol/newsid_ 7320000/newsid_73269 00/7326934.stm?bw=bb &mp=wm&news=1&bbcws= 1
You're as irritating as the 'little darlings' in question.
Go pitch your tent in a playground!

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George Agdgdgwngo, Home says...
5:51pm Wed 2 Apr 08

Looking at the news clip, the mums are right chavvy!

No wonder Basil Fawlty wanted them booted out of his cafe, and why not its is right to.

I was wondering, as a mark of common sense, has anyone organised an event at the cafe to show there apprieaction of the owner. This man deserves our support, and should not bow to a few mothers with kids they cannot control.

I for one, will be having a nice cuppa in the park there tomorrow, who will join me for some piece and quiet?

Totally innocent!

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Me, here says...
6:00pm Wed 2 Apr 08

Anneks wrote:
As an early years teacher I am disgusted by the views discussed in this blog, with many of you describing childhood as evil as illustrated in the contemporary movies "Poltergeist" and "Damian". Children should be seen and not heard?! We are in 2008 – not Medieval times when childhood did not exist. One of these “yummy mummies” is a very good friend of mine who frequents to the park to get fit through ‘buggy running’ and discuss parenting issues with fellow new mums. A picture has been painted that these women are single parents driving 4x4 cars when in fact they meet on foot whilst their boyfriends or husbands are working and work out in the FAMILY park! The truth of the matter is that after a 20 minute coffee break one very young baby started to cry as they left-not for an hour! It sounds as though the nicknamed Basil Fawlty has changed the story for sympathy and has backtracked. I agree with Jasper who stated, ‘These babies are so young and the idea that they could cause such disruption it just silly. It is a family park after all!’
You know...a friend of mine once said these wise words:

"Arguing on the internet is like participating in the Special Olympics. Even if you win, you're still a retard."

Nuff said.

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LadySouthwick, HOVE says...
6:05pm Wed 2 Apr 08

I'm afraid that the majority of children of today are spoilt brats with parents who have no idea in how to bring a child up as a nice human being.
The parents are all too busy keeping up with Jones, so go out to work and foist little Henry or Buttercup to a child minder or day nursery when instead they should be looking after the child instead of being so materialistic.
There is absolutely no respect for people or their property today.
I just have to listen to my neighbour next door swear and scream at her kids,yet to the world her and her husband make out they are the best parents.
But in the indoors of their home ..........it is a different matter.
probably spelling mistakes but shes shreiking again........and she works as a carer.........pity the old dears she goes to!

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Sarah Devine, Brighton says...
6:16pm Wed 2 Apr 08

Sarah wrote:
Truly predictable how the majority of posters have believed the cafe owner and used it as a chance to voice their own views on motherhood. All have been very quick to label the mothers selfish without believing that they took their children out when they started crying and got abuse from a man widely recognised to be grumpy and charmless. As for Sarah Devine and \\\\\\\'mum who visits cafes sometimes\\\\\\\', I can\\\\\\\'t decide what is more irritating - screaming babies or smug, judgemental mothers!
Sarah - why shouldn't I believe the cafe owner ?? I've actually seen how badly some children are allowed to behave by their parents there at first hand - which is clearly more than you have. Also, for the record, I've always found the cafe owner welcoming when he takes my order. Otherwise, I wouldn't go there. I can only report as I find ... rather than from your grossly uniformed perspective.

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roger, brighton says...
6:35pm Wed 2 Apr 08

Good for him.
Every days these Union of Bored Houswives ruin peoples' enjoyment of cafes by allowing their little brats to scream their heads off, run around making a nuisance of themselves.
Like dog-owners, they automatically think that everyone else must love their kids as much as they do.
Well we don't!

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Laurence, Hove says...
7:05pm Wed 2 Apr 08

quote
We have sympathy with both sides and whilst it seems harsh to ban customers with young children cafes, when cafes are used as playgroup premises in Brighton and Hove it may be fine for the younger ones but it is not so with older customers.

The cafe in St Anns Wells gardens is used by a large group of Mothers with very young children every day. it seems set up as a nursery as the "nursery end" has easy chairs and settees rather than tables and chairs
It is noisy and the children run up and down inside to the annoyance of those customers who have popped in for a relaxed coffee or tea. It is impossible to sit and enjoy ones refreshment because it is so noisy. So where are older customer to go? We have tried to sit outside as it is so noisy but when it is cold this is not comfortable

Greg at Hove

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Sarah, Brighton says...
7:15pm Wed 2 Apr 08

I seem to be the only person who HAS read the article and made a common-sense judgement about it based on experience. I have NEVER experienced a baby being left to cry for an hour in public and I HAVE experienced first-hand the rudeness of the manager. These are babies, not toddlers - they can't run riot. I do have children so am more than familiar with the routine of packing babies up as soon as they start to cry. If a couple of minutes of crying in a family cafe can't be tolerated while a mother attempts to get out quickly it only goes to prove what a miserable country this is to bring up children in. And before some clever sod tells me to leave if I don't like it and do them a favour - I am! I know - good riddance...

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kevin, peacehaven says...
7:32pm Wed 2 Apr 08

Well done the cafe owner! I don't want to sound like a miserable git ( even if some would say that I am) but I am really fed up with every cafe/ coffee shop I go in in Brighton ( and lets face it there's plenty of them) being over run with mothers and their precious darlings running riot. I've given up popping out of the office at lunchtime for a quick break in one because I always end up returning more wound up than when I left. As others have already posted on here, some women seem to think it's ok to sit around all day gassing with their friends whilst the kids run amok! Try having a bit of thought!

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FRED, brighton says...
7:44pm Wed 2 Apr 08

Its the same with all these one parent familes. Its every body else but them. Why not leave the little bra*s outside, if its not raining. Why are you in the park?You dont need exercise, maybe a face lift or two,yes. You young mothers are a nuisance and should stay away untill the kids are old enough to behave them selfs.

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Shut up, I'm trying to enjoy my coffee in peace. says...
7:51pm Wed 2 Apr 08

Sarah wrote:
I seem to be the only person who HAS read the article and made a common-sense judgement about it based on experience. I have NEVER experienced a baby being left to cry for an hour in public and I HAVE experienced first-hand the rudeness of the manager. These are babies, not toddlers - they can't run riot. I do have children so am more than familiar with the routine of packing babies up as soon as they start to cry. If a couple of minutes of crying in a family cafe can't be tolerated while a mother attempts to get out quickly it only goes to prove what a miserable country this is to bring up children in. And before some clever sod tells me to leave if I don't like it and do them a favour - I am! I know - good riddance...
Where does it say "a couple of minutes"?

If you haven't experienced an hour of uncontrolled wailing, then I take it you haven't been on many long-haul flights. Bleedin' 8 hours of it!!!
Good on you, Mr. Owner and may you lead others towards the path of peace and quiet.
Sarah - you're a prat.

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Charis, Brighton says...
8:29pm Wed 2 Apr 08

I was there. 2 babies cried as the women were leaving. The owner told them never to come back. Not sure where all this pap about single mothers, benefits, materialistic parents etc is coming from?

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helena, says...
8:35pm Wed 2 Apr 08

i was there in the cafe not only were they crying for ages one of the mothers used atable as a changing facility!! it was digusting to look at while eating especially when there is a chnging facility in the toilets outside...those mothers think they have every right to do what they want because have babies.. get over ureselves! it obviously shows that they have alot of time on there hands to go the press about pathetic stories that arnt even news!!!...

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lucy, says...
8:36pm Wed 2 Apr 08

i was there in the cafe and they did not shut there screaming kids up for over 45 mins, mr.incorvaja has every right to throw them out!! babies cry ... well done .. but at least they should have the common courtesy to take them out... good riddance!!

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peter, says...
8:43pm Wed 2 Apr 08

my daughter works at the cafe and what these mothers dont release is that some days the staff have to listening to screaming children all day, giving them headaches... they welcome children and mr.incorvaja, does not hate children he is a family man himself ...yes it is in a family area but people should be more considerate to others not only the staff but the other members of the public.. grow up

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helena, says...
8:53pm Wed 2 Apr 08

Me wrote:
Anneks wrote:
As an early years teacher I am disgusted by the views discussed in this blog, with many of you describing childhood as evil as illustrated in the contemporary movies "Poltergeist" and "Damian". Children should be seen and not heard?! We are in 2008 – not Medieval times when childhood did not exist. One of these “yummy mummies” is a very good friend of mine who frequents to the park to get fit through ‘buggy running’ and discuss parenting issues with fellow new mums. A picture has been painted that these women are single parents driving 4x4 cars when in fact they meet on foot whilst their boyfriends or husbands are working and work out in the FAMILY park! The truth of the matter is that after a 20 minute coffee break one very young baby started to cry as they left-not for an hour! It sounds as though the nicknamed Basil Fawlty has changed the story for sympathy and has backtracked. I agree with Jasper who stated, ‘These babies are so young and the idea that they could cause such disruption it just silly. It is a family park after all!’
You know...a friend of mine once said these wise words:

"Arguing on the internet is like participating in the Special Olympics. Even if you win, you're still a retard."

Nuff said.
i was there and people should be in favour of the owner!.. ure so called friend obsiviously is the "typical bored housewife" if her husband is at work while shes having buggy race in the park!! the child was screaming for a long time .. ure friend is exaggerating her side a little too much .. get a life

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ENOUGH, brighton says...
8:39am Thu 3 Apr 08

I say, put "em all up for adoption.

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Ann, says...
11:49am Thu 3 Apr 08

Well done, Mr I. I am tired of the arrogance of these mothers (and fathers) who assume that their wayward offspsring are a joy to everyone. Babies are babies. It is the parents who differ. Compare and contrast the children of parents who spend time teaching them how to behave with consideration in public to the children of parents who abdicate responsibility. Babies are intelligent and play the field from an early age. They learn quickly. Of course they are noisy but if the noise cannot be controlled, it is easy for the parent to remove the noise. How many of them are willing to do so if their own freedom to do as they want is being compromised? They shouldn't blame the messenger. They should take steps to avoid the message being given! Parenthood brings restrictions!
I am tired of being told that we must tolerate nursery behaviour (not only volume-wise but eating-wise too)in public places such as cafes and coffee shops. The triumphant irresponsible parent invades every segment of our society.
I hope more cafe/restaurant owners will now have the courage to speak out on behalf of the suffering public.

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FRED, worthing says...
12:18pm Thu 3 Apr 08

How about Mr Incorvaja, standing for council? Or maybe the next Hove M.P. (hes got to be better then the one at the moment} We could call the party , The Party Against Horrible Kids In Preston Park, And Else Where. This could be the start of a new move meant,

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Freds a ****, brighton says...
1:16pm Thu 3 Apr 08

What the hell are you talking about FRED? It's people like you that turn young children against the older generations. By the way it's movement not 'move meant'. Good education you got yourself there.

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Sue, Brighton says...
2:09pm Thu 3 Apr 08

Quite frankly the comments and views expressed in the majority of posts about this issue are at best unfair, at worst insulting towards mothers. God forbid that I ever have to share cafe space with any of these right on, childless bigots who are absolutely clueless when it comes to dispensing advice on parenting. For the record, several years ago I had exactly the same argument with the idiot who runs the Rotunda Cafe. Having quite happily taken our money for many months for vastly overpriced food and drink, he decided to 'ban us' because our children were 'running around and making too much noise'. I see his attitude - and tolerance levels - clearly haven't changed in the intervening time. Having registered my complaint with the council (who were absolutely useless) we voted with our feet and never went back using the chalet cafe, where a much friendlier welcome awaited, instead. Oh and by the way I'm not a bored yummy mummy/housewife newly arrived from the London burbs who sits around 'gassing and drinking tea all day' (like we all have the time for that eh Mum's?) and neither are my children or anyone else's children who frequented the Rotunda cafe at that time spoilt demonic brats running riot and out of control. We were just a group of mothers who would get together once a week - once a week for god's sake - after mother and baby group for a cup of tea and a bit of lunch - now where is the harm in that?

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Put, a sock in it Sue (and your kid's mouth)! says...
2:44pm Thu 3 Apr 08

Gawd...if your kids whine on like you do..

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Angela, Brighton says...
3:47pm Thu 3 Apr 08

Sue wrote:
Quite frankly the comments and views expressed in the majority of posts about this issue are at best unfair, at worst insulting towards mothers. God forbid that I ever have to share cafe space with any of these right on, childless bigots who are absolutely clueless when it comes to dispensing advice on parenting. For the record, several years ago I had exactly the same argument with the idiot who runs the Rotunda Cafe. Having quite happily taken our money for many months for vastly overpriced food and drink, he decided to 'ban us' because our children were 'running around and making too much noise'. I see his attitude - and tolerance levels - clearly haven't changed in the intervening time. Having registered my complaint with the council (who were absolutely useless) we voted with our feet and never went back using the chalet cafe, where a much friendlier welcome awaited, instead. Oh and by the way I'm not a bored yummy mummy/housewife newly arrived from the London burbs who sits around 'gassing and drinking tea all day' (like we all have the time for that eh Mum's?) and neither are my children or anyone else's children who frequented the Rotunda cafe at that time spoilt demonic brats running riot and out of control. We were just a group of mothers who would get together once a week - once a week for god's sake - after mother and baby group for a cup of tea and a bit of lunch - now where is the harm in that?
What an excellent and well thought out posting

However, it doesnt alter the fact that IF kids were allowed to constantly scream their heads off in this cafe, as has been claimed, its hardly suprising people and/or the owner got annoyed. I would myself.

Usually these sort of stories get exagerated, so benefit of the doubt and all that. However, in principle I agree 100% with the cafe owner.

I would rather 'upset' a few mothers that buy a few cups of tea once a week, than upset regulars that might decide to go elsewhere every day.

Incidently, Im a mum with a young baby, and I certainly wouldnt want to hear a mothers meeting and all it entails if I went to a cafe for a cup of tea or a snack. A little consideration goes a long way - some mothers are considerate, some are not.

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Sue, brighton says...
4:47pm Thu 3 Apr 08

Put wrote:
Gawd...if your kids whine on like you do..
oh goody - thanks 'put a sock in it sue and your kids mouth' for proving the point I made about the type of person choosing to comment on this issue - and taking a pop at a 4 year old as well - how very big of you...

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FRED, worthing says...
6:53pm Thu 3 Apr 08

Time to get back in the kitchen Sue, the old mans waiting for his dinner!

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kirsty lewis, brighton says...
10:18pm Thu 3 Apr 08

so while the bread winner is out working hard to put a roof over the families head, the other half is having buggy races in the park, throwing money down the drain on endless cups of coffee and upsetting someone trying to earn a living. What a contribution to modern society. they then have the audacity to go running to the local press about their perceived injustice. I will be visiting the Park this weekend and will enjoy a nice relaxing drink without the golden triangle mafia-mums imposing their kids on me

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Free Churchill Square, Brighton says...
10:32pm Thu 3 Apr 08

Unfortunately, a large percentage of young mothers (particularly teenage single mothers) seem to use the possession of a baby in a buggie as a 'status symbol'. They must think it shows their 'womenhood', thereas in reality, it simply shows them to be the local bike.

Its just the same with the yobs (chavs) and their pitbull terrier lookalikes. They think being seen with one makes them look 'hard'. (ie: braindead!)

In fact of course, brats in buggies, and Staffs on string make both of them look pretty pathetic.

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tania, brighton says...
1:46pm Fri 4 Apr 08

Peter wrote:
Well done mate ,,having tried to have a relaxing coffee in the park ,,,l was sick and tired of listening to bored housewives prattling on about Trinny and Suzanna,,or some other boring load of ****,whilst Tabatha,Sunset,Lenti l or Mingbean sat screaming ,mummy being totally oblivious to her sceeching child ,,,Good for you mate ,,,maybe now parents will realise its not all about them and their selfish needs .
get a life dont go to a childrens park if you want to relax you idiot

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Sarah, Brighton says...
7:18pm Fri 4 Apr 08

tania wrote:
Peter wrote: Well done mate ,,having tried to have a relaxing coffee in the park ,,,l was sick and tired of listening to bored housewives prattling on about Trinny and Suzanna,,or some other boring load of ****,whilst Tabatha,Sunset,Lenti l or Mingbean sat screaming ,mummy being totally oblivious to her sceeching child ,,,Good for you mate ,,,maybe now parents will realise its not all about them and their selfish needs .
get a life dont go to a childrens park if you want to relax you idiot
A children's park? RUBBISH, it's for everybody, and kids should be kept under a certain amount of control,or taken outside if crying uncontrollably and upsetting everybody in a cafe, that's the right thing to do!

Huge groups of parents with noisy kids descending on a cafe and thinking they own it, really annoys me when I want a quiet cuppa!

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From one who knows and seen, Hove says...
7:47pm Mon 7 Apr 08

Re Rotunda Cafe and St.Annes Well Cafe.As a Mum.When babies born , naturally cry,hOSP. and if more than one to-gether sets all the others of, The best thing then is separate, look after your own be ok.I have been in St Annes Cafe, previously buggy tipped over on me, Mums sat never said thing top heavy bags on hamdles, as I went to get cutlery.TIPPED OVER. And I was sitting having meal one Mum on leather seats 2 children one laid down, the other climbed over behind Mum and back, poor eldely man shaken as, one jumped down and naerly hit head on table. If they run about toys, they could get burnt or hot drinks on them ,would complain. The little ones left to run in bushes alone, bushes cut now. Some I saw so youngwith a stick whopping all roses, Mum busy another child, I mentioned something like lovely flowers, carried on hit all of next bush. If we dont teach them right from wrong they will never know .Like your ABC AND TO READ. nO iM NOT GRUMPY OR moaner facts. Yes Im one those O.A.P who believed in holding there hand,and helping them on and of bus, while toddlers. I expect I will get a lot of rude remarks cos Time changing.? No more please and thankyous.if not taught,at school when go be worse I know experiences. Young Mums BHS coping well,and Woolworths.BABIES BOTTLES FEEDS.So surely must be responsive all babies and toddlers know how to play up especially get what they want facts.It isnt easy being Mum at any age.Take care of them.and they will love you.xx

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Alfie, Hove says...
10:11pm Mon 7 Apr 08

From one who knows and seen, Hove, above. Take a deep breath, slow down, and try typing it in a way that makes sense.

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Is it me, or is this just maaaad?? says...
9:03am Tue 8 Apr 08

From one who knows and seen wrote:
Re Rotunda Cafe and St.Annes Well Cafe.As a Mum.When babies born , naturally cry,hOSP. and if more than one to-gether sets all the others of, The best thing then is separate, look after your own be ok.I have been in St Annes Cafe, previously buggy tipped over on me, Mums sat never said thing top heavy bags on hamdles, as I went to get cutlery.TIPPED OVER. And I was sitting having meal one Mum on leather seats 2 children one laid down, the other climbed over behind Mum and back, poor eldely man shaken as, one jumped down and naerly hit head on table. If they run about toys, they could get burnt or hot drinks on them ,would complain. The little ones left to run in bushes alone, bushes cut now. Some I saw so youngwith a stick whopping all roses, Mum busy another child, I mentioned something like lovely flowers, carried on hit all of next bush. If we dont teach them right from wrong they will never know .Like your ABC AND TO READ. nO iM NOT GRUMPY OR moaner facts. Yes Im one those O.A.P who believed in holding there hand,and helping them on and of bus, while toddlers. I expect I will get a lot of rude remarks cos Time changing.? No more please and thankyous.if not taught,at school when go be worse I know experiences. Young Mums BHS coping well,and Woolworths.BABIES BOTTLES FEEDS.So surely must be responsive all babies and toddlers know how to play up especially get what they want facts.It isnt easy being Mum at any age.Take care of them.and they will love you.xx
I'm speechless :-O

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Gavin Hall, Brighton says...
11:44am Wed 9 Apr 08

Very very well done to the rotunda cafe owner I applad him for his actions. Cinemas, pubs, resturants and even libraries now I cannot go and enjoy myself without some screaming kid in the background and more than likely with the parents doing absolutley nothing about it. Why is it that if I go into a indoor public area with me being the only one there and light up a ciggarette I am fined £80 and tagged as being anti-social. Yet walk into a cafe with two screaming kids running around yelling blue murder and this is tollerated? I will defenatley be visiting this cafe when going through preston park, and if the mums dont like it tough they can sit outside with the smokers and all the other unsocial behaviorists.

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Oh yes!, Brighton says...
12:19am Thu 10 Apr 08

Most of the ugly overweight women in the photo only ended up with a kid by accident, or were drunk (I think the 'father' must have been drunk as well, or perhaps had very bad eyesight)

So having been landed with a brat, they now decide to take vengence on society. Its all very sad.

As the old saying goes - 'daddy should have gone to specsavers'

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annie, Rotunda Cafe, Preston Park says...
3:32pm Wed 30 Apr 08

I have worked at the Rotunda cafe (with Mr Incorvaja) for nearly 4 years now, and i can tell you we have had our fair share of disruptive children. Many times we have suffered with headaches and stress due to noise levels from children, especially bad in our busier periods, but, as they also bring a lot of custom we suffer in silence. What people seem to forget is that this is ONE incident where Mr Incorvaja has stood up for himself/us staff/and other customers. I was working at the time of the incident and the mother who has been quoted above is clearly lying. The child was screaming for an exceptionally long time, one of the group even changed their childs nappy on one of our tables! Plus the manner in which Mr Incorvaja commented to the woman was actually in a jokey way! I personally do not understand how someone can sit there for so long disrupting the whole cafe without taking the child outside or doing something to comfort him/her. But anyway, the whole thing is quite funny really as going to the Argus with this story has in fact backfired on these women...it has generated more publicity for the cafe and business is even better!...Thank you everyone for your support!

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The mums and babies do not feel welcome at the Rotunda Cafe The mums and babies do not feel welcome at the Rotunda Cafe

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