Your Argus
TEXT your pictures, videos and messages to 80360. Start your message with SUPIC or email your tip-offs »
St James's Starbucks fight goes online
10:25am Tuesday 6th May 2008
Comments (71)A Facebook group is asking people to "wake up and smell the coffee" in a campaign against an international café chain.
Brighton and Hove City Council has received a planning application from Starbucks to convert the old Sussex Stationers bookshop in St James's Street, Brighton, into a coffee house.
But with 12 coffee outlets already in the vibrant Kemp Town street, campaigners believe the arrival of the chain will have a detrimental effect.
One man was so incensed at the planning application he has started a Facebook group in protest.
Jon Barrenechea, 31, of New Steine, Brighton, created the Stop Starbucks From Opening On St James's Street group about two weeks ago and it now has more than 200 members.
He said: "I saw a planning notice outside the shop which said Starbucks had applied for a change of use and I thought I really needed to do something about it.
"I started this Facebook group and a lot of people started joining and I noticed there was a lot of discontent in the neighbourhood."
People have until May 14 to register their objections with the council.
In his blurb, Mr Barrenechea says St James's Street has a unique character which is achieved, in part, thanks to its independent retailers and cafés which helps to create a vibrant economy.
He said: "A corporation such as Starbucks is likely to increase rentals which would put further pressure on local businesses.
"There are already 12 coffee outlets in St James's Street so to have yet another, particularly of this size, is unsuitable and could cause some to go out of business."
Mr Barrenechea, manager of the Duke of York's cinema in Preston Circus, said he also believes the application goes against the local plan.
He is being backed by Green councillors Ben Duncan and Rachel Fryer and Simon Burgess, the Labour Parliamentary candidate for Kemptown.
Mr Barrenechea said: "Our argument is not against Starbucks as a company. Our problem is with them opening in St James's Street.
"There are already five Starbucks in the city. The closest ones are opposite the Jubilee Library and in The Lanes. It is like an invasion.
"When a chain like Starbucks moves in on neighbourhoods people have a strong affection for, they will say they have had enough."
A Starbucks spokesman said: "We open stores where customer demand exists. We would not be opening another branch unless there was demand for the store to open.
"We are happy to be opening a store in such a vibrant area of the town and we are committed to providing the Starbucks experience to people in Brighton."
Do you think Starbucks should be allowed to open another store in the city? Call The Argus on 01273 544525 or comment below.
Your Say YourThe Argus
Flat Foot Soozie, Brunswick Square says...
10:43am Tue 6 May 08
The "spokesman" might be anonymous but such absurd language means that you can see the shiny polymix suit he wears.
Starbucks experience indeed! Get real, man.
C, Hanover says...
10:52am Tue 6 May 08
Deano, Kemptown says...
11:07am Tue 6 May 08
Viva Starbucks
Nikki, Kemp Town says...
11:17am Tue 6 May 08
That aside - St James does NOT need starbucks - what gibber about the 'customer demand'! WHAT customer demand - apart from the Roaster there are so many independent coffee shops in the area - we really don't need another. Write to the council & protest!
Richard, Brighton says...
11:18am Tue 6 May 08
Major Blyth-Smith, 3rd Foot and Mouth, says...
11:18am Tue 6 May 08
MoP, says...
11:25am Tue 6 May 08
http://www.brighton-
hove.gov.uk/index.cf
m?request=b1151084&a
ction=showDetail&APP
LICATION_NUMBER=BH20
08%2F01039
Flat Foot Soozie, Brunswick Square says...
11:26am Tue 6 May 08
nikki, Kemp Town says...
11:31am Tue 6 May 08
Maybe they know that the council will just roll over when they see Starbucks' Big Bucks...
And Richard, where do you live? Millionaires Row? Sorry - but people ARE unemployed in this city - but as I write this, looking down on St James, I can see bustling independent businesses like the No Name & Cardome - people getting on with their lives. It's a great community and I'm proud to be part of it.
simon, brighton st james st says...
11:58am Tue 6 May 08
the second you start to say who can open in an area the second the area becomes un-diverse. If you have the money to open you can open thatsit, be it your mark from the council estate or startbucks.
secondsly, there are alot of poor quality cafes on st james's street and starbukcs might help move them on and new better quality ones open in there places.
third: 200 people of a facebook does not represent the whole area does it.
And as for the green party they will say anything to make a noise!
let starbucks open, lets the poor quality cafes go out of businss and new ones open, and dont vote green
b, Brighton says...
12:06pm Tue 6 May 08
nikki wrote:Agree BUT please remember that St. James Street goes pass Cardome and No name!! or have you shares in these places!!! One of the Street's problems - people seem to think that it ends at No Name
My thoughts precisely, major...
Maybe they know that the council will just roll over when they see Starbucks\' Big Bucks...
And Richard, where do you live? Millionaires Row? Sorry - but people ARE unemployed in this city - but as I write this, looking down on St James, I can see bustling independent businesses like the No Name & Cardome - people getting on with their lives. It\'s a great community and I\'m proud to be part of it.
Jeff, Brighton says...
12:12pm Tue 6 May 08
At the end of the day, we should not throw tantrums when we don't get our own way. I want to earn more money, get better house car etc.
Should I set up a Facebook group to stop people moving to my area and thus competing with me?
Thought now.
Grow up and smell the (soon to be in place on St James Street), Starbucks Coffee.
I actually think people should boycott all independent coffee shops on St James street. I will for one. Maybe I will start a boycott group on Facebook.
b, Brighton says...
12:16pm Tue 6 May 08
St. James Street does not end at Cardome or No Name.
Let Starbuks open and let the people decide.
Judge Nutmeg, Hove says...
12:47pm Tue 6 May 08
Starbuckstrooper, Hyperspace says...
1:03pm Tue 6 May 08
Judge Nutmeg wrote:Here, here. Jesus you'd think they were opening a sex shop not a coffee shop! Why are people so worried about a Starbucks? I will give it a try and if it is better than my usual coffee shop then I will go back. The customer is King!. I take it the 12 coffee shops mentioned include a couple of greasy spoons that serve muck that they pass off a coffee? My limited experience of Red Roaster is that the staff are pig ignorant! They barely acknowledge you or smile and chat to their mates at the coffee machine. (especially the strawberry blond on who is normally chatting last nights trade!)
What fresh nonsense is this? Ever heard of the free market?I\'ve never stepped foot in Starbucks and never will but if they want to open a shop they should be able to. It\'s not like they\'re converting a church or building on the green belt - a closed bookshop is being turned into a coffee shop. No one\'s forcing you to spend your money there. If the 12 other coffee shops don\'t like I suggest they provide a superior service and starve Starbucks of business rather than crying to the council for protection from market forces.
Seasider 1, Brighton says...
1:26pm Tue 6 May 08
No, Way says...
1:47pm Tue 6 May 08
b wrote:would having a Starbucks nearby increase your footfall???
St. James Street is unique like that of the Lanes and should remain so. As a sole trader in the street trade is becoming ever harder. We and Brighton as a whole, already have Churchill Square against us, which seems to gain everything from the Local Councils plans and finance, while the rest of Brighton just seems to go to rot. Plenty of parking for churchill but nothing, except for a few car bays at high cost in St. James Street.
The only council money spent on St. James Street as a whole is for road markings. With all this i do mean all of St. James Street and NOT just the bottom towards Old Stein.
Good Luck to all
Yes, it would.
Lemola, Costa Coffee says...
1:47pm Tue 6 May 08
sm, says...
1:56pm Tue 6 May 08
(do they know what expresso means?)
Deano, do you actually know what an ESPRESSO is ???
Strugg-Lynn, Brighton says...
2:09pm Tue 6 May 08
matt, brighton says...
2:21pm Tue 6 May 08
sm wrote:espresso also expresso n. , pl. -sos also -sos . A strong coffee brewed by forcing steam under pressure through darkly roasted, powdered coffee.
Deano wrote: (do they know what expresso means?) Deano, do you actually know what an ESPRESSO is ???
Expres(so) doesnt imply quickly made though however...or at least i dont think
Lassie, LA says...
2:21pm Tue 6 May 08
An ideal shot of espresso should take between 20 and 30 seconds to arrive on a professional-grade machine, timed from when the coffee begins to flow from the machine (unless the machine has a "preinfusion" stage, which may add about 7 seconds to the process).
Nikki, Kemp Town says...
2:31pm Tue 6 May 08
See - that's pretty much the issue.
Here in Kemp Town we are so lucky to have those local independent stores, the butcher, the fishmonger, the greengrocer etc etc who really care about what they do and so enrich our community.
I don't see Starbucks caring about anything beyond their profit margin. Certainly they dont care about serving a good cup of coffee. Theirs is vile.
And to those poor souls whose best argument is 'get a life' we HAVE one, thanks. And it doesn't include being a mindless drone who accepts whatever garbage is dished out without a word of protest.
I love my local area - I love that it's mostly unique, mostly full of independent traders and definitely feels like nowhere else in the UK. Why SHOULD we become just like every other soulless High Street? Starbucks is just the thin end of the wedge some things are worth fighting for and for me and many, many others living in an area thats packed with personality rather than some dull cookie cutter look-a-like is definitely worth shouting about.
Cath Fien, BTN says...
2:32pm Tue 6 May 08
lisa, Hove says...
2:36pm Tue 6 May 08
I.Kemp, Abroad says...
3:01pm Tue 6 May 08
Ronnie, Kemptown says...
3:05pm Tue 6 May 08
What is even more amazing is that someone hasnt started a facebook page regarding the mouthy and abusive scum that's allowed to hang around outside Somerfields (and others of course) drinking cans of lager.
St James street needs high Police and or council activity for a few weeks, confiscating drink and giving out penaltys to the drunks and other scumbags.
ZERO TOLERANCE IS NEEDED - what do we pay taxes for
Dont tell me people actually like this side of St Jamess Street unique character?
Peter Perfect, The online Mall says...
3:15pm Tue 6 May 08
Robert, Brighton says...
3:16pm Tue 6 May 08
Look on the bright side - it will add a big name which will draw people there, and it can only add something new - which is soreley needed.
And I reckon Starbucks will put pressure on the Police to clean the place up, although they shouldnt have to (see ronnies post earlier)
Jon, Brighton says...
3:33pm Tue 6 May 08
The city has specific plans and laws that regulate the licensing of businesses, as every other city in the world does. These should be respected and local residents should be consulted. What we dont want is trans-national corporations poaching leases from local businesses and setting up shop in already well-served areas to tap into other businesses customers. Starbucks has a long and well documented history of unfair trading practices and they shouldnt go unchallenged.
Starbucks has five other branches in Brighton & Hove, so all you Frapuccino lovers have plenty of other places to get your favourite style of coffee from. Double Cappuccino from the Red Roaster for me, thanks.
jo, haywards heath says...
3:40pm Tue 6 May 08
Eddie Cafetiere, Shoreham says...
3:53pm Tue 6 May 08
The new branch will happily operate at a loss for a while, whilst poaching a small number of customers from the independant coffee shops (as people may often just go to the nearest shop, location is everything. This will be enough to eventually push the independents under or out, leaving Starbucks with no competition and back in profit again.
They will also push up rental prices in the area, so it's not all as "fair" a competition as it would seem.
coffeeman, percolator close says...
4:37pm Tue 6 May 08
simon wrote:i actually agree with this post. the only reason people don't want starbucks is because they are afraid of competition, and they will have to train their staff properly, and give good service. i enjoy a good coffee, and frequent local cafes as well as mainstream brands. competition is healthy for business.
STOP!!!!
the second you start to say who can open in an area the second the area becomes un-diverse. If you have the money to open you can open thatsit, be it your mark from the council estate or startbucks.
secondsly, there are alot of poor quality cafes on st james's street and starbukcs might help move them on and new better quality ones open in there places.
third: 200 people of a facebook does not represent the whole area does it.
And as for the green party they will say anything to make a noise!
let starbucks open, lets the poor quality cafes go out of businss and new ones open, and dont vote green
Sarah, Brighton says...
4:42pm Tue 6 May 08
pedestrian, kemp town says...
4:54pm Tue 6 May 08
P.S.
If only Macdonalds could take over the dire kebab shop or even that grotty overcharging chicken place!
Harry, Kemp Town says...
4:56pm Tue 6 May 08
S, Sussex says...
5:10pm Tue 6 May 08
Baz, Brighton says...
5:36pm Tue 6 May 08
But sadly people with limited taste buds feel 'comfortable' with that plastic Starbucks experience (explain McDonalds any other way!).
I'd rather we escape yet another SB and obviously I'll vote with my wallet - and hope the unenlightened will too.
If you ever find yourself in need of a non-corporate cafe, you can always do a search on:- www.delocator.co.uk
larry david, says...
6:25pm Tue 6 May 08
Jon, Brighton says...
7:53pm Tue 6 May 08
planning.application
s@brighton-hove.gov.
uk
With the following (add your own thoughts and opinions, but please remember to sign it!):
Application numbers: BH2008/01039, BH2008/0095315
115 St James Street, Brighton BN2 1TH
Change of Use
Please register my objection to these applications, and, if minded to approve, that this be brought before a Planning Applications Sub-Committee.
I have stated my reasons below:
- St. James' Street has a unique character and this is achieved in a large
part thanks to its independent retailers and cafes. This also helps to create a vibrant local economy. A Starbucks coffee house would have a detrimental effect on the street's uniqueness and could push these independent stores out of business which would have a negative effect on the local economy.
- There are already 12 coffee outlets on St. James' Street so to have yet
another, particularly of this size, is unsuitable and could cause some to go
out of business.
I believe that this application goes against the Local Plan, in particular:
* SR5 which states that St. James's Street should have a clear predominance
of A1 retail. (at least 51%)
* SR12 which states that any new large A3 should not abutt residential
property which this site does.
* SR12 also states that such a change of use should not be allowed within
400m of another large A3.
Emma, Brighton says...
9:23pm Tue 6 May 08
Richard wrote:That's very relevant to the topic Richard, well done.
St James st is a hell hole. Full of skint hoo rags, down and outs and dole scum. I hate the street. It's not unique at all. Every time I walk down it I feel ill, it just reeks of unemployment. Maybe the new starbucks will bring a new flock of people. Not the usual scum that hang around Somerfield with their cans of Tennants Super.
Angela, Kemptown says...
10:28pm Tue 6 May 08
Emma wrote:Emma, what Richard said is EXTREMELY relevant to the topic of why a big name like Starbucks would want to open in St Jamess.
Richard wrote: St James st is a hell hole. Full of skint hoo rags, down and outs and dole scum. I hate the street. It's not unique at all. Every time I walk down it I feel ill, it just reeks of unemployment. Maybe the new starbucks will bring a new flock of people. Not the usual scum that hang around Somerfield with their cans of Tennants Super.That's very relevant to the topic Richard, well done.
As indeed is what was said by Ronnie, and also Robert in earlier posts.
St Jamess is in dire need of a Police clean up. I know this happens now and again, but it needs doing in such a way that the drunks beggars and scum dont WANT to go there, because if they do they are going to get their drink poured down the drain and thrown in the back of a police van.
Dont start on about their human rights, because as far as I and most of the other residents of Kemptown are concerned they dont have any.
andy the scaff, at home drinking tea says...
11:14pm Tue 6 May 08
'starbucks experience'..don't make me laugh!..i for one do not want to spend £4 on some pretentious coffee cocktail and watch a couple of prats trying to look intelligent whilst playing backgammon...saying that if starbucks were to introduce some form of custard drink with a free syringe exchange then they might do well in st james's st.
Deano, Kemptown says...
12:09am Wed 7 May 08
sm wrote:Yes you window licker-bet you feel a right fool now!!!!!!! Bet you think IQ is a quiz hosted by Stephen Fry?
Deano wrote:
(do they know what expresso means?)
Deano, do you actually know what an ESPRESSO is ???
Mark, Kemptown says...
12:10am Wed 7 May 08
Karen, Brighton says...
10:33am Wed 7 May 08
Karen, Brighton says...
10:41am Wed 7 May 08
Justin B, Brighton / London says...
11:31am Wed 7 May 08
Of course, it would be with a vague feeling of guilt that my money is going to a large corporation instead of local businesses, but I'll do it anyway, for that *magical starbucks experience*...
I guess that makes me a bad nimby. Thats why I dont want SB to open in the first place; I have enough guilt as it is going to HMV instead of resident/rounder records.
Mike, BN2 1RG says...
4:17pm Wed 7 May 08
The point bthey make about demand is, in my opinion, a load of twaddle. How much market research did they do? For heavans sake, we already have at least 12 other coffee outlets on the street.
They are insisting on operating well outside the local plan
Lou, Bfrighton says...
9:45pm Wed 7 May 08
Perhaps someone should think about opening up somewhere you get can a really decent cup of English Tea!
Thomas, Kemp town says...
12:42am Thu 8 May 08
Lucy, Kemptown says...
1:14am Thu 8 May 08
Just remember to keep hold of your purse, wallet and money, and dont make eye contact with scumbags who are likely to greet you with 'who the **** are you lookin at', or other dreggs of society aggresively asking 'hav you got 40p for the phone' (ie 40p towards their next can of lager)
David, Brighton says...
1:30am Thu 8 May 08
If you are genuinely concerned about genuinely homeless people, give £10 a month to a homeless charity, via your bank.
Its stupid giving cash to street beggars, because they will simply buy alcohol or drugs with it, then do it again tomorrow
Roberto, Brighton says...
1:49am Thu 8 May 08
Lucy wrote:The joking? tone of Lucy's post is all very well, but it should be said that giving cash of any kind to beggars is actually the worse thing you can do - from their point of view. Beggars can easily collect enough money for food and alcohol (and other drugs) if they put their mind to it. If they were not given money in this way, they would have to pull themselves together and start looking for ways to earn an income. No one is saying its easy, but they would do it if they had to. And dont under estimate how much money some of the clever ones can collect. A year ago I talked to the 'crying girl' that was well known around Brighton. In the ten minutes I was sitting chatting to her, at least 5 £1 coins were thrown on her blanket - thats £30 an hour! Ok Im sure its not totally representative, and Im sure she was spending most of it on drugs, but I do know that in the long run she would have better off if no one gave her any money, and she was made to sort herself out.
I think the abundance of street drunks, druggies, beggars, homeless addicts, pickpockets, shoplifters, and threatening chavs with fat ugly breeders with screaming brats and cute little pitbull terrier lookalikes, is all part of the character of St James Street. Where else can you find such a vibrant and exciting society in which to do your shopping. Just remember to keep hold of your purse, wallet and money, and dont make eye contact with scumbags who are likely to greet you with 'who the **** are you lookin at', or other dreggs of society aggresively asking 'hav you got 40p for the phone' (ie 40p towards their next can of lager)
As someone else said - if you really want to help, give your money to a proper charity.
Ronnie, Brighton says...
1:57am Thu 8 May 08
But it is in St James's St, so I can see how addicts and drop outs came into it
Jon, Brighton says...
9:09am Thu 8 May 08
Angie, Kemptown says...
4:48pm Thu 8 May 08
Jon wrote:Jon, you are 99% right in what you say
The tone of some of these comments betrays profound bitterness, prejudice and ignorance. Please let's stay on topic! Whatever you think about St James Street, it is home to some of the most acclaimed, well respected, bext restaurants, bars and coffee shops in all of Brighton. It is also the heart of the gay community and home to everything that makes Brighton such a desirable destination nationwide! Viva Brighton!
But do you really believe residents are happy with the bad side of Kemptown?
Are you suprised that they take this (off topic)opportunity to express their views?
Its not ignorance, its disgust that almost nothing is done to sort it out
We need a petition of Kemptown residents to be sent to the council and the police, with thousands and thousands of signatures, demanding that the scum element is cleared off the streets
And that isnt ignorance and bitterness, its common sense
Mike, says...
9:20am Sat 10 May 08
I agree it has started to go down hill again. I would like to get the group up and running again. So anyone who lives in the area from Eastern Road to Marine Parade and Old Steine to Rock Gardens if you are interested in getting involved then drop me an email Cardome@gmail.com.
Thanks
Alfie, Brighton says...
12:51pm Mon 12 May 08
The other way to look at it is that at least in Kemp Town they are out of the way of the majority of people and close to the hospital for emergency care.
Sarah, says...
7:27pm Mon 12 May 08
One of which is that Starbucks is said to fund the IDF with its profits, the IDF being a military group in Israel. Profits being used to buy guns? That doesn't sound nice.
Secondly Oxfam has repeatedly stated that Starbucks is denying ethiopian coffee bean farmers millions of pounds a year (this was widely covered by the BBC)
Do we really want such a company operating on our street?
Caroline, BTN says...
11:13pm Mon 12 May 08
Robert, Kemptown says...
2:10am Tue 13 May 08
Alfie wrote:They all should be moved next to you - you daft ****
Can anyone who says the streets of Kemp Town should be cleared of the homeless by the police (rather than through caring for them so they can improve their lot) suggest where they would be better moved to? The other way to look at it is that at least in Kemp Town they are out of the way of the majority of people and close to the hospital for emergency care.
We are not talking about homeless people in the simplistic sense, we are talking about dirty filthy abusive 24hr street drunks and drug using scum that are a total waste of oxygen and are homeless because no one in their right mind wants anything to do with them. If they were all going to drop dead next week, it would be a long wait (quote from another post, and a **** good one).
Wholly One, B&H says...
2:22am Tue 13 May 08
Please remember we are all born equal in the sight of the Lord
Some of course are born more equal than others, but thats how the cookie crumbles
Please give generously at the collection on Sunday (we take Visa, Amex and all popular credit cards).
Avee Holmes, Kemp town,Bt'n says...
9:48pm Tue 13 May 08
Nikki, Kemp Town says...
6:41pm Thu 15 May 08
"Stop Starbucks from Opening on St James Street"
Thanks -
NIKKI
Nikki, 434-073 says...
10:38am Thu 22 May 08
Major Blyth-Smith, 3rd Foot and Mouth, says...
7:28pm Thu 22 May 08
Starbuck also are advertising as opening in 2 days time, it will be interesting to see what they do.
Also the signage outside the place hasn't gotten permission yet - its still under consideration
morch, Brighton says...
10:11am Sat 31 May 08
Monica, Brighton says...
12:01pm Wed 4 Jun 08
The new branch will happily operate at a loss for a while, whilst poaching a small number of customers from the independant coffee shops (as people may often just go to the nearest shop, location is everything. This will be enough to eventually push the independents under or out, leaving Starbucks with no competition and back in profit again.
"They will also push up rental prices in the area, so it's not all as "fair" a competition as it would seem."
Great point made about 'fair' competition! C'mon let's speak up for the little man
As for "What a lot of fuss about a coffee shop - amazing
What is even more amazing is that someone hasnt started a facebook page regarding the mouthy and abusive scum that's allowed to hang around outside Somerfields (and others of course) drinking cans of lager."
Yes, it is amazing and great. And as for staring a facebook about what you feel strongly about well, why don't you?
As for why are people bothering to make a fuss about starbucks opening it's because people care. Give me that over apathy any day! Let's not forget they haven't been given planning permission and nor would any cafe there so c'mon who the hell do they think they are? Seriously?!And as for what people choose to care about now that's freedom of choice. There are enough people in the world to protest about all sorts be it a coffee shop to NHS closures to third world debt. Why do people have to deride others for giving their time, energy, and words to something they feel strongly about. People power all the way!!!!
Bean lover, Brighton says...
12:02pm Tue 17 Jun 08
In this section
- Jury in Hastings stalker attacks trial told car salesman "terrorised lone women"
- Learn the Brighton Carnival dance
- Sussex councils spend millions on school transport
- Man quizzed over Brighton YMCA blaze
- Sussex swine flu cases mount up
- Portslade schoolboy knocked down at death crash site
- Debt scammers target Sussex
- Paralysed Worthing teenager spends 14th birthday in hospital
- Brighton cabbies 'treated with contempt'
- Sussex disabled boy helped by kind neighbours
Sponsored Links
Local Advertisers
Local Information
Enter your postcode, town or place name
b, Brighton says...
10:42am Tue 6 May 08
The only council money spent on St. James Street as a whole is for road markings. With all this i do mean all of St. James Street and NOT just the bottom towards Old Stein.
Good Luck to all