Awesome! Shame I missed the King Blues play on the level :( darn work!

By 3pm they had reportedly broken through the factory gates

story posted: 2:56pm today


go figure.

The Argus is now staffed by clairvoyants? If so how's the new legislation going to affect them?

sm wrote:
By 3pm they had reportedly broken through the factory gates story posted: 2:56pm today go figure.

BST and GMT? Would the Argus know the difference?

I saw the protesters march past my university (Mouslecoombe campus) a little before 1 this afternoon followed by atleast seven police vans. So you're saying they hung around for two hours and then decided to break through the gates?

what a lovely sight for the children to see on their way home from school. god knows how many riot police running down the hill being goaded by protesters. alot of frightened children and parents. good planning by the protestors!!!!!!!!!

If the so called protesters really believed in what they're meant to stand for they'd realise you don't fight fire with fire - unless, as appears to be the case - they're just jobless parasites trying to convince themselves they have purpose and significance. Well, of course they do have purpose and significance but here's a lesson for the clueless ... be constructive not just destructive - there's enough of that in our world. All your doing is disrupting Moulsecoomb residents lives, intimidating the 300 odd young children at the Primary school and costing hard working tax payers thousands and in the end, doing nothing to change anything in a positive way at all - well done, great achievement - not!

Get out the water cannons and tear gas.

Julian wrote:
If the so called protesters really believed in what they're meant to stand for they'd realise you don't fight fire with fire - unless, as appears to be the case - they're just jobless parasites trying to convince themselves they have purpose and significance. Well, of course they do have purpose and significance but here's a lesson for the clueless ... be constructive not just destructive - there's enough of that in our world. All your doing is disrupting Moulsecoomb residents lives, intimidating the 300 odd young children at the Primary school and costing hard working tax payers thousands and in the end, doing nothing to change anything in a positive way at all - well done, great achievement - not!

Yep they are mainly jobless parasites trying to convince themselves they have purpose and significance.

Have you seen the state of some of them, they wouldn't be allowed to work in the the state they are in.

They posted on the forum and resorted to insults calling most residents murderers (sp) because we understand EDO produce parts for commercial air liners too and that we understand smart bombs are more reliable these days and do thankfully no injure as many inocent people this day and age.

I saw the protesters go past my place of work this afternoon. I would quite happly join them apart from I have to work...why don't they do these things on the weekend?

Thomas wrote:
I saw the protesters march past my university (Mouslecoombe campus) a little before 1 this afternoon followed by atleast seven police vans. So you\'re saying they hung around for two hours and then decided to break through the gates?

Not correct!!! At 1.40 they had only got to the bottom of Coombe Road! Nothing was moving along Lewes Road apart from them and police with camcorders.

Wilftop wrote:

Julian wrote:
If the so called protesters really believed in what they're meant to stand for they'd realise you don't fight fire with fire - unless, as appears to be the case - they're just jobless parasites trying to convince themselves they have purpose and significance. Well, of course they do have purpose and significance but here's a lesson for the clueless ... be constructive not just destructive - there's enough of that in our world. All your doing is disrupting Moulsecoomb residents lives, intimidating the 300 odd young children at the Primary school and costing hard working tax payers thousands and in the end, doing nothing to change anything in a positive way at all - well done, great achievement - not!

Yep they are mainly jobless parasites trying to convince themselves they have purpose and significance.

Have you seen the state of some of them, they wouldn't be allowed to work in the the state they are in.

They posted on the forum and resorted to insults calling most residents murderers (sp) because we understand EDO produce parts for commercial air liners too and that we understand smart bombs are more reliable these days and do thankfully no injure as many inocent people this day and age.

In the Gulf War of 1990/91, 70% of the so-called "smart" bombs missed their targets completely. The figure for the current Iraq War hasn't been fully investigated as figures aren't available, but it won't be significantly different - especially given that "shock and awe" dropped more bombs on Baghdad than ever before.

I'm no apologist for rioters, and I don't thing EDO are the worst of the offenders in the world. But don't kid yourself that war is clean and clinical and that high-tech shiny bombs only kill the bad guys.

They don't, they kill women and children and destroy homes and hospitals and schools, pretty indiscriminatly.

concerned parent wrote:
what a lovely sight for the children to see on their way home from school. god knows how many riot police running down the hill being goaded by protesters. alot of frightened children and parents. good planning by the protestors!!!!!!!!!

Perhaps they will learn something along the lines of standing up for your beliefs instead of scuttling home to attach themselves to the PS3 or X-Box and then scoff lots of e-numbers.

It must have been realised that following the tour of "On The Verge" and the debate about censorship that this afternoon's rally was going to be a bit busy. Surely as the event had been advertised for some time they could have closed the factory down for the day and there were various points along the Lewes Road that the police could have applied section 60 notices. Not wishing to sound too cynical, it's like someone wanted a battle to take place in front of kids. There's no excuse for vandilism of property but it's not as if the event was a spur of the moment thing

concerned parent wrote:
what a lovely sight for the children to see on their way home from school. god knows how many riot police running down the hill being goaded by protesters. alot of frightened children and parents. good planning by the protestors!!!!!!!!!

Those children should be grateful that they are not on the receiving end of one of the bombs that we help manafacture.

I saw the protest in the Lewes Road and there were hardly "Hundreds of protesters". Another case of the Argus misreporting.

**** Hippies!
There going to set up a hippie drum circle's all over the town

Protesting at 3pm? shouldn't they be in work at that time of the day?!..
Oh..

EDO should have turned their weapons on the do-gooders.

If it weren't for the sterling work of companies like EDO, our good lads in the middle-east wouldn't be able to defend themselves.

EDO should electrify the gates next time.

Its because of War that they have the right to march in the first place. In the 1940's they would have thought nothing of shooting and battering the protestors! shame..

I think its pointless, vandalism of peoples car on site is pathetic. People have to EARN a living, not all of us can live on the Level!

I wish you tried the same in Belfast! see how far you get!

And the "peace" part seems to miss you all, As I commented to a protestor that I liked his Army combats, what surplus store did he buy them at? I was subjected to abuse...

And all those Drugs you do?, beause you do! link to Arms money.

Hypocritical fools.

Dont rally Ebo, rally the Government.
Or get a job, you will lose all your spare time! and might have time to reflect in the holes in your ideas.

Julian wrote:
If the so called protesters really believed in what they're meant to stand for they'd realise you don't fight fire with fire - unless, as appears to be the case - they're just jobless parasites trying to convince themselves they have purpose and significance. Well, of course they do have purpose and significance but here's a lesson for the clueless ... be constructive not just destructive - there's enough of that in our world. All your doing is disrupting Moulsecoomb residents lives, intimidating the 300 odd young children at the Primary school and costing hard working tax payers thousands and in the end, doing nothing to change anything in a positive way at all - well done, great achievement - not!

Sound advice. You should never fight fire with fire.

My dad was thrown out of the Fire Brigade for doing just that.

Riot? Damaged a few cars then went off to hug trees and cash Giros.

Look, if something happened at 1pm, it has still happened "by 3pm" hasn't it? It might have happened at 7am this morning. Just like if someone says "up to 500" that could mean 150. Fools.

People might take more notice,if the great unwashed stayed away.

Isn't the 'get a job' line getting a bit tired by now?

Calling the demo a 'riot' is a bit of an exaggeration, as anyone who has been in a riot should be able to tell you. The only reason there was any confrontation with police is because they were trying to stop the protest from happening outside of the factory, and to force demonstrators into a small pen some way down the road. As usual, if the police had just let the demo go ahead there would have been no trouble at all.

However they seemed overkeen to get their batons out and I witnessed on many occasions police slashing and jabbing into the crowd, their faces distorted with hate.

Some people who posted here may not value the civil liberties that have been destroyed over the past 10 years or so, but the day may come when they feel strongly enough about something to take to the streets themselves.

I feel the day was a great success and so does everyone else I've talked to who was on the demo, many of whom had never been to EDO before and some of whom, yes, were from Moulsecomb.

most of the 'protestors' probably vote labour(you know, the war mongering party)..suggest they go home & snuggle up with The Guardian, drink some cider,then throw up,then eat it.Leave the real Brightonians in peace !!

Idiots !!

Some us have to actually go to work to get our income. So after a long, hard day at work I have to wait an extra hour to get home.

From all the cans of lager in their hands do they know what they are actually protesting about?

Is there not anything else more important to protest about in Brighton..... council tax rip off, teenagers being stabbed and attacked. The list is endless.

I don't mind missing buses and gettng late home for real reasons.

Beam me up Scotty..........

Yes, Im sure a small faction were indeed loyal to a cause.

The majority were no more than travellers and general drug taking types you see all over the county.

Faces masked? thats illegal by the way? im sure? intimidation!

If the protest was left to its own devices you would have caused just as much congestion,and the press and attention is the reason you are doing such an event.

Also the passing a Large Primary school, drinking, banging drums and chanting like a viral cirus of manotony was not very respectfull!

If you are indeed peaceful, why do you have previous riot experience?

I say toughten the Law and stop this waste of resources and money!

I see no people in your "protest" of worth, no leadership,political figure with respect in Civil rights? its a rabble for a show, to lead to a drink and another night on the K.

Fools

posted by: some tree hugging hippy
Some people who posted here may not value the civil liberties that have been destroyed over the past 10 years or so, but the day may come when they feel strongly enough

by all means demonstrate. However when you go around maliciously committing criminal damage, you lose what small sympathy some people may have for your cause. Scummer.

If this is such a cause of Heart for you all.

Why did they not at least dress for the occasion? A smart attire to be taken on a serious note?
Then the press might look twice as it being a "civil rights" movement.

Not at traveller site explosion onto the streets for a walk around "drinking session"

Why do people who are indeed "clean & tidy" not envolved?

Also, why the masks? are you all afraid of being filmed again to break your "bail"?

Again its bad press for the dredlocked people. If you want attention. stand and be counted in the correct ways, not a sea of crust to the Edo gates and damage peoples property

I wonder if every single one of these protestors were taken to one side and asked in detail as to what they were actually protesting about - I doubt if half of them would know any great detail at all.

Go home.

Get a job.

Stop going to Galstonbury - it is too mainstream for you all now.

Protest with your vote as all other adults do.

Tax your cars.

Wash your hair.

Simple - people may start taking your side then.

Simon wrote:
EDO should have turned their weapons on the do-gooders.

If it weren't for the sterling work of companies like EDO, our good lads in the middle-east wouldn't be able to defend themselves.

EDO should electrify the gates next time.

defend themselves against whom exactly? frightened citizens of a country illegally invaded to secure a constant oil flow to the west perchance?

Peaceful Protest - Yes go ahead - it's your right...Damaging other people's property is not your right!Being abusive...Not your right!

Boss Hogg wrote:
I wonder if every single one of these protestors were taken to one side and asked in detail as to what they were actually protesting about - I doubt if half of them would know any great detail at all. Go home. Get a job. Stop going to Galstonbury - it is too mainstream for you all now. Protest with your vote as all other adults do. Tax your cars. Wash your hair. Simple - people may start taking your side then.

I'd take their side! at least if it was a choice between them and the arms industry in our community! however as I said earlier, how come they protest about something so important when the majority of people are working? next time do it on the weekend!!! so real brightonians can join in!

Just write a letter next time you don't like something a company does, it's so less disruptive to the rest of the community and gets your point across far better. Most people view protestors as just people who enjoy causing trouble and they're not taken seriously anymore. Stop wasting police time and get a life. By the way protestors, I hope your homes all got burgled while the cops were out policing your pointless protest!

sm wrote:
posted by: some tree hugging hippy Some people who posted here may not value the civil liberties that have been destroyed over the past 10 years or so, but the day may come when they feel strongly enough by all means demonstrate. However when you go around maliciously committing criminal damage, you lose what small sympathy some people may have for your cause. Scummer.

This is true . However the more intelligent members of society will be able to separate any ill feelings they have towards the so called demonstrators/rioter

s/crusties/lefties/d

ruggies/vandals or whatever from the issue on which they are demonstrating.
It's far easier for people to complain about demonstrators than it is for people to form an educated opinion on a particular issue.
Like the old cliche goes..
Our soldiers fought wars for the right to demonstrate!...... ironically that INCLUDES the right to demonstrate against war! (so remember this before you sign up kiddies)

jo wrote:
Just write a letter next time you don't like something a company does, it's so less disruptive to the rest of the community and gets your point across far better. Most people view protestors as just people who enjoy causing trouble and they're not taken seriously anymore. Stop wasting police time and get a life. By the way protestors, I hope your homes all got burgled while the cops were out policing your pointless protest!

'Dear Adolf, please stop rounding my friends up and putting them on a train - Thank you'

Arthur Brainleft wrote:

jo wrote: Just write a letter next time you don't like something a company does, it's so less disruptive to the rest of the community and gets your point across far better. Most people view protestors as just people who enjoy causing trouble and they're not taken seriously anymore. Stop wasting police time and get a life. By the way protestors, I hope your homes all got burgled while the cops were out policing your pointless protest!

'Dear Adolf, please stop rounding my friends up and putting them on a train - Thank you'

Hmmmm, I don't think the above would have worked somehow! I am all for freedom of speech but I think somewhere along the way something has got lost, like common sense on all sides!

Riots? Damaged cars? Smashed a few windows? Sounds like a normal Moulscombe residents day out to me !!!

These lazy bastards should be out working instead of sponging of the state and wasting tax payers money on the amount of police needed today to deal with the riot, if they lost a days pay to carry on like this im sure the protest would not of happened.

jobs are very far &few between these days,do the protesters not realise that edo provide jobs for our local community,its not all about making bombs.

Why just because they didn't have work this afternoon does that make them lazy good-for-nothing types? I've worked solidly the last 5 years and I've NEVER had a 9-5, I wasn't working today! In fact I probably work a great deal harder than most of you 9-5 types. And Fred, "The Great Unwashed" does not refer to hippies, but people from the lower classes and the intellectually impoverished!!! ;o)
Nevertheless I don't argree with these protests, braking cars does nobody any good. Gandhi would not be impressed!

lee wrote:

Boss Hogg wrote: I wonder if every single one of these protestors were taken to one side and asked in detail as to what they were actually protesting about - I doubt if half of them would know any great detail at all. Go home. Get a job. Stop going to Galstonbury - it is too mainstream for you all now. Protest with your vote as all other adults do. Tax your cars. Wash your hair. Simple - people may start taking your side then.

I'd take their side! at least if it was a choice between them and the arms industry in our community! however as I said earlier, how come they protest about something so important when the majority of people are working? next time do it on the weekend!!! so real brightonians can join in!

I am a 'REAL BRIGHTONIAN' born and bred.

I would not protest with them if they paid me.

They protest during the week because they have concerts to go to over the weekend or have to travel to other planetary important protests around the UK.

You know to protest against a company that produces wax that is used on cars that are driven on roads which is shared by the military. Therefore it is the wax company's fault about war.

'Majority of people working' is a very apt comment though.

I wonder if any of them ever have.

jo wrote:
jobs are very far &few between these days,do the protesters not realise that edo provide jobs for our local community,its not all about making bombs.

jo, there are plenty of jobs around for people, just that the benefits system doesn't help people to work if they get more in benefits than taking a proper job and paying tax!

As for the protestors, do they really think it will make ANY difference to EDO? Write to the government, don't hassle ordinary people who can't afford to not work at places like that!

And good on the police for preventing them from protesting outside the gates, everybody who works there has the right to free access without intimidation which is exactly what they would have had to face if the so called "protestors" had been outside!

Perhaps these protestors ought to do charity work, or join VSO and help the people in the countries affected, rather than their trendy "oh we're so much better than you cos we care so much" protestations!

concerned parent wrote:
what a lovely sight for the children to see on their way home from school. god knows how many riot police running down the hill being goaded by protesters. alot of frightened children and parents. good planning by the protestors!!!!!!!!!

Having driven around Moulsescum ,,i'm sure it would be a nice change from what greets them at home..

Boss Hogg wrote:

lee wrote:

Boss Hogg wrote: I wonder if every single one of these protestors were taken to one side and asked in detail as to what they were actually protesting about - I doubt if half of them would know any great detail at all. Go home. Get a job. Stop going to Galstonbury - it is too mainstream for you all now. Protest with your vote as all other adults do. Tax your cars. Wash your hair. Simple - people may start taking your side then.

I\'d take their side! at least if it was a choice between them and the arms industry in our community! however as I said earlier, how come they protest about something so important when the majority of people are working? next time do it on the weekend!!! so real brightonians can join in!

I am a \'REAL BRIGHTONIAN\' born and bred. I would not protest with them if they paid me. They protest during the week because they have concerts to go to over the weekend or have to travel to other planetary important protests around the UK. You know to protest against a company that produces wax that is used on cars that are driven on roads which is shared by the military. Therefore it is the wax company\'s fault about war. \'Majority of people working\' is a very apt comment though. I wonder if any of them ever have.

Alright! just said I agreed with them on principle! sheesh...didn't realsie so many of my fellow residents had such respect for Arms dealers and the rich.

Dave wrote:
Protesting at 3pm? shouldn't they be in work at that time of the day?!..
Oh..

exactly, they are the jobless oiks that we have to pay for. if that is what my taxes pay for, the i want to withdraw from the tax system. edo doesn't just make parts for bombs, this is a small part of the business. if edo are forced to close, where are the employees going to go? on the dole queue with the oiks

Lee,

I certainly do not respect either of the two types of people you mention.

However these 'protestors' are a media nightmare and do themselves and their cause NO justice whatsoever with their antics, blatant disregard for the rule of law and their belief that they are totally above the law.

Whatever your feelings are about an issue, the most successful protests are those people who do so with honour, peace and unity.

This lot display none of the above and as a result they will never succeed.

Vote - like everyone else, lobby your local MP, lobby the relevant Minister - there are alternatives.

I wonder if the protesters would do this if we were under attack! I think they are a waste of space and need to get jobs.

I have no time for these idots!

And as previous post why is it the argus reports at 2.56pm they got in at 3:00pm did they know? are they involved?

And rumor has it the argus are making redundancies! yes you heard right .. british jobs being lost to overseas companies. I don't see them reporting that!

'jobless parasites' is unfair, most people making these comments are making judgements about people they've never met. protestors were viciously attacked by police, not the other way around. students dressed in red isn't intimidating, riot cops are, without the cops, nothing would have been at all violent. this was a peaceful demo that was attacked. and yes, we have tried alternatives andf there are all useless. direct action gets results.

I was stuck in the A27 traffic today watching the riot police arresting some protesters who'd been lying in the road. Didn't bother me one bit, because I think the sight of people protesting about anything is a cause for celebration. This country is fabulous for many reasons, not least the freedoms we enjoy, even if we are a bit eccentric sometimes. Three cheers for open debate on websites with no repurcussions too!

I see the hard working parents brigade are out in force today. Better start working a bit harder as you are soon going to get screwed by the coming Grand Global Depression. I don;t really blame you since it is not your fault that you were brainwashed from birth with a nationalistic version of truth. Or is it that you just can't see any further than the end of your own nose? A bit of damage to some windows and cars, so what?. Anyone on a first year economics course knows that these things are good for the economy since they keep people in work. Just like the police. What would they actually do if their were no soapdodgers to push around?

Bill wrote:

jo wrote: jobs are very far &few between these days,do the protesters not realise that edo provide jobs for our local community,its not all about making bombs.

jo, there are plenty of jobs around for people, just that the benefits system doesn\'t help people to work if they get more in benefits than taking a proper job and paying tax! As for the protestors, do they really think it will make ANY difference to EDO? Write to the government, don\'t hassle ordinary people who can\'t afford to not work at places like that! And good on the police for preventing them from protesting outside the gates, everybody who works there has the right to free access without intimidation which is exactly what they would have had to face if the so called \"protestors\" had been outside! Perhaps these protestors ought to do charity work, or join VSO and help the people in the countries affected, rather than their trendy \"oh we\'re so much better than you cos we care so much\" protestations!

bill i was made redundant after 23yrs of working last march,i am doing something very worthwhile now & training to be a nurse,but after looking at the terrible jobs available no wonder these lazy protesters don't want to work!!!!

anonymous wrote:
'jobless parasites' is unfair, most people making these comments are making judgements about people they've never met. protestors were viciously attacked by police, not the other way around. students dressed in red isn't intimidating, riot cops are, without the cops, nothing would have been at all violent. this was a peaceful demo that was attacked. and yes, we have tried alternatives andf there are all useless. direct action gets results.

What results? Has the factory closed? Will it close? Will wars stop? Has your plight gained any support? The answer is no. All the protesters have achieved is alienating themselves further, increasing the stereotypes held by the majority, making children scared and sending police home who never wanted to be there injured and costing the tax payer huge ammounts of unnecessary expense... well done!

so anon of brighton, the police stirred it up did they ? I don't think so. I doubt the police made the "protesters" throw missiles at the EDO building or to pour paint over the road.
And as for large groups of "protesters" sitting around getting drunk and being abusive to all and sundry, wow, that's really constructive.

Tool.

and it strikes me that most of the "protesters" are less interested in the ideology of the protest adn more interested in revelling in a bit of lawless hooliganism and trying to pretend that it is for some sort of cause.

concerned parent wrote:
what a lovely sight for the children to see on their way home from school. god knows how many riot police running down the hill being goaded by protesters. alot of frightened children and parents. good planning by the protestors!!!!!!!!!

I feel sorry for your kids if youve taught them to be afraid of police and protesters standing up for what they believe in.

They are just people you know! or maybe you dont?

''Hundreds of protesters rioted in Brighton this afternoon.''

If there ever is a riot in Brighton the Argus will call it the
apocalypse.

Whilst being disrupted from travelling to university today by a bunch to frightened to reveal their own faces by masks i thought to myself what a dumb bunch of individuals, many drinking alcohol in the middle of the highway. "By the end of the day will will have the arms factory shut down" umm, thugery is not acceptable, i didnt know whether the protestors who hung through my car window were gonna drag me out and give me a kicking, or give me a pamphlet, and thats how i honestly felt. Rally in the park fine, freedom of speech fine, dont stop people going about their business, resentment breeds contempt for what you are. I suppose you will gleefully pop to the dole office this week to pick up your giro to pay for your alcahol. This isnt the 60's, grow up.

Riot..what a load of ****!!

i was at the demo/carnival today and i took the day off from work (annual leave) so to voice my concern against a dirty business as it is bulding bombs, or parts of them, to kill people, oppress entire nations and create waves of refugees running away from war thorn countries. Yes, i work and i showered myself once a day...mmmhhh and now? any other argument to tackle?

good on you paul 48!

Sherman McCoy wrote:
I see the hard working parents brigade are out in force today. Better start working a bit harder as you are soon going to get screwed by the coming Grand Global Depression. I don;t really blame you since it is not your fault that you were brainwashed from birth with a nationalistic version of truth. Or is it that you just can\'t see any further than the end of your own nose? A bit of damage to some windows and cars, so what?. Anyone on a first year economics course knows that these things are good for the economy since they keep people in work. Just like the police. What would they actually do if their were no soapdodgers to push around?

I see the middle class anarchists are out and about today.
Face it boys and girls if the system was as evil and corrupt as you state you'd be in an unmarked grave somewhere.
Why don't you do yourselves a favour and leave this country behind and do some voluntary work in a place that needs you.You make genuine protesters look like a bad (weak) version of the icf.
FAIL/

protestors were viciously attacked by police

Quite honestly it would of been more useful if the feds had clubbed you with truncheons, it might of knocked some sense into you numpty's !!!

I saw this march at about 2 oclock, as it was beneath the railway bridge on the road out of Brighton, and the silly descriptions of it are quite astonishing. They say more about the posters of the comments than the marchers.

I would describe the march as quite loud, and of a few hundred people. It was not hundreds, but it was not small either. There was a mix of people and I could see a number of older people, as well as the usual over enthusiastic idiots that any march or parade attracts. The march was reasonably neat, with a large police presence keeping it in a compact group. There was a surprising number of police vehicles.

Some protesters handed out leaflets, which were very professional, and not especially sensational. they explained what the protest was about, what they had been doing, what they wished to achieve, and how to join the protest or obtain more information.

I was not aware of excessive numbers of tree hugging jobless drunk, idiot hippy travellers. There may well have been some there.

What I do know, is that I had no idea about the factory, and what it produces, but I do now. I think that people have every right to object to a factory that produces equipment that kills others, as much as I believe that people who support arms sales have the right to be heard too. that is called a democracy. Unfortunately the protestors view is not funded by a multi million pound arms industry, so to be heard they are using these tactic. That is their choice.

Unfortunately there are people on this site who are simply making sweeping judgements about such protestors, and seem to think they know what protestors might think, and if they have a job based on the protestors clothes. I wasn't at work when i saw the protest, and could easily have arranged my working hours to voice my concern about any issue I feel strongly enough about.This is how workers rights, womens voting rights, racial equality and a whole host of things we take for granted were achived. they were not achieved by sitting idly at a computor, making sweeping judgements about people with strong beliefs.

A group who had similar views in which they judged people by their beliefs, and visual appearance, to the extent that they attempted to literally shut them up, were the Nazis.

They started literally attacking and imprisoning people based on their political ideology, and then moved onto religion, and other 'labels'

Of course we had to stop the Nazi's using weapons, which is why I think the issue of the arms factory is a complicated, and important one to debate properly.

Congratulations to the marcher for raising awareness, and congratulations to those who disagree with them, but listen to what they say.

If anyone was vandalising cars, the n I hope they get treated like anyone else who does the same thing.

If you don't like people who disagree with you to have a voice then I suggest moving to North Korea, where you can experience the Utopian dream of Nuclear Arms protection, no official unemployment, clean and tidy people, and no nasty outsiders.

Nice to see some **** from the people of Brighton.
Vegetable rights and peace.

"Protestors were viciously attacked by police", mmm i dont think so.
Why then were police officers injured today by protestors throwing stones and whatever they could get their hands on at the police ?

Did the police throw stones? no they didnt. Im sure they acted appropriately with what they were faced with. How else are they supposed to deal with thugs, who offer such violence !

Hi - well done to all the lads and lasses who took the fight to EDO today. Just wanted to say - ignore the jowely trolodites that post on these forums - weve had the same experience in Bath. Reading local paper forums, you'd think people hate us, but on the streets, we have loads of support, people queing to sign our petitions etc. These places are the last hiding place of the idiot whose views are not acceptable in the non-digitalised world! Once again, well done - i'd like to think a brick got lobbed for me!

Phil wrote:
"Protestors were viciously attacked by police", mmm i dont think so. Why then were police officers injured today by protestors throwing stones and whatever they could get their hands on at the police ? Did the police throw stones? no they didnt. Im sure they acted appropriately with what they were faced with. How else are they supposed to deal with thugs, who offer such violence !

quote

well maybe if they listern it may not have turned violent, phil you don't actully know what your talking about so don't bother giving your opion on it!!

i can almost garuntee you that the police were just as voilent as the protesters!
GOOD ON THEM, thats what i say!!!!!

I know someone who works for EDO and he said all the ground staff were given a free days holiday so wasn't bothered at all by the protest. Seemed a complete waste of time to me!

me, from Brighton, All im saying is why should the police tolerate such behaviour from protestors, surely they dont get paid enough to have missiles thrown at them.
If the police used force on the protestors then good for them.
I praise the police for their work, having to put up with these so called peaceful demonstration.

Should have bombed the Level while they were all in one place.

the scum is still on the level about time the police that are watching them went in and got rid, most of them are greenys they dont belive in any body working just growing cabages in there back yard

well the authority can alway pay me dollar i can shoot these imbecile people who do refuse work. These work shy people are spawn of whores and lazy men what should you not shoot them?

I want to ask why the Police didn't stop these people before they got to EDO.
The Police must have had intelligence to point to trouble likely to happen, or was this to the Polices advantage to allow all this to happen for whatever nefarious purpose.

It will be interesting to see if the Argus make any FoI requests about this debacle

I want to ask why the Police didn't stop these people before they got to EDO.
The Police must have had intelligence to point to trouble likely to happen, or was this to the Polices advantage to allow all this to happen for whatever nefarious purpose.

It will be interesting to see if the Argus make any FoI requests about this debacle

themet police were at brighton station this morning and at 5 this afternoon there was hundreds of police in wild park shame there not there when the traverlers come calling

Well done paul 48 and sashka. I second your comments. Thanks for putting it better than I could; and saving me the trouble of wasting time posting comments alongside some of the lunatics who post here. I always love the tired old 'get a job, have a bath' crowd. Their ignorance and unimaginative comments never fail to amuse.

I work full-time job and going to university too. I went to the protest, because I disagree with companies profiting from murder.

I admire people who were brave enough to stay face to face with police and to break the windows. If I was brave enough I would burn all muderder factories to the ground.

Ive never seen so much police aggresion im my life, but obviously they are there to protect their leaders - the government and the capitalists.

Today they showed their face, next time we should be brave enough to kindnap some of their ranks and beat them up, and not let them stand in the way of our struggle against murder and wars.

So people are questioning the police.These people were commiting crimial offences if you ask me too little force was used.Had this being Germany or France water cannons would of blasted them back to the slums they live in.

Just one more - for paul 48, sashka and anyone with their brain connected properly: Look out for 'Hijacking Catastrophe' on youtube. 'Why We Fight' may be on there as well. Just two I can think of.

Look at Dahr Jamail`s site. He went to Iraq...unembedded.

A proper journalist. He has just won another award for his reporting:

http://dahrjamailira
q.com/

solja Boy at 8:50:

"I know someone who works for EDO and he said all the ground staff were given a free days holiday so wasn't bothered at all by the protest. Seemed a complete waste of time to me!"

Lucky staff - of course ITT still has to pay them - so thats a fair outlay with not a lot in return. All of this stuff adds up and makes the business less and less profitable. I can see the point of that.

Lol at all the getajobs who were posting during office hours. Stealing their bosses time, and getting all moralistic in the process.

Wonder how much all the self-righteous tax payers will be adding to their council tax to foot the bill for a bunch of cops who just never get it right.

All I know is that I was coming back from WORK to find my way blocked by a load of people who obviously weren't AT WORK. It was a bl**dy nuisance and I don't give a flying one about the factory. They don't make arms there anyway, just the electronics.
Get jobs - then you won't have time to protest about nothing.

Jake wrote:
I work full-time job and going to university too. I went to the protest, because I disagree with companies profiting from murder. I admire people who were brave enough to stay face to face with police and to break the windows. If I was brave enough I would burn all muderder factories to the ground. Ive never seen so much police aggresion im my life, but obviously they are there to protect their leaders - the government and the capitalists. Today they showed their face, next time we should be brave enough to kindnap some of their ranks and beat them up, and not let them stand in the way of our struggle against murder and wars.

I think you'll find the job of the police is to serve and protect the public??? I shall reply with no more intelligence than this post deserves.

Jo H wrote:
Idiots !! Some us have to actually go to work to get our income. So after a long, hard day at work I have to wait an extra hour to get home. From all the cans of lager in their hands do they know what they are actually protesting about? Is there not anything else more important to protest about in Brighton..... council tax rip off, teenagers being stabbed and attacked. The list is endless. I don\\\'t mind missing buses and gettng late home for real reasons. Beam me up Scotty..........

and herein lies the answer to anyone who comes up with the old "jobless heathens" type comments regularly posted in the comments sections of news papers after events like this. Thanks Jo H for the subtext to your comment, which is so easy to discern. basically you hate your job ("So after a long, hard day at work I have to wait an extra hour to get home.") you are jealous of the fact people are out having a bit of fun drinking and not working hard for a pittance like you (" From all the cans of lager in their hands do they know what they are actually protesting about"), bet you actually would have rather been down the pub, or at a carnival.

Some of us actually have to go to work? what about the people at the top of the chain of your line of work who don't work, but are rich off of your rubbish wage? they spend all their time holidaying and playing golf.

I agree with you totally on the council tax rip off.

I was there, it can hardly be called a riot, more the police using all there powers to lay into vast amounts of people. They started by using the batons on the protesters who where not at all being violent, they then continued to push about the protesters including a woman who i personally saw get knocked to the ground with her baby in her arms. As well at many people left unable to walk due to attacks from the police and people unable to see as pepper spray was used. There must have been over 150 police officers.
When the use of dogs to intimidate the protesters came i left, due to the violence i could see comming.
Later at about 4oclock or near that time a young boy around 18 or 19 was brutally attacked by the police, the reason was that he was not walking fast enough! Two of the police held him down kicking and beating him with a baton...
make of it what you will but i saw it all and have the videos on my phone to prove it.

I take exception to the Argus using prejudiced language such as 'rioted' and 'trouble' when describing the afternoon's peaceful protest.

This was far from the case - the only 'trouble' came from the provocative tactics of the Police charging people who weren't even on private property and who committed no act of trespass whatsoever.

If the Police dress & behave as if expecting a 'riot' then they will usually be the ones to cause the 'trouble' if there is any.

Major Blyth-Smith, 3rd Foot and Mouth wrote:
I want to ask why the Police didn't stop these people before they got to EDO.
The Police must have had intelligence to point to trouble likely to happen, or was this to the Polices advantage to allow all this to happen for whatever nefarious purpose.

It will be interesting to see if the Argus make any FoI requests about this debacle

It is also interesting to note that the police let the few hundred protesters on to the EDO site, by opening the massive gates right in front of them!

For those who complain about the scared kids of the schools, have u ever wondered about how the scared kids of IRAQ or PALESTINE feel when they hear the war planes, throwing BOMBS MADE IN BRIGTHON?

HAVE YOU EVER WONDERED WHAT WAR FEELS LIKE?

YOU BETTER STAND UP FROM UR CHAIRS AND PROTEST FOR SOMETHING THAN COMPLAIN ON THE INTERNET FOR NOTHING!

V FOR VIVA LA PALESTINE

Boss Hogg wrote:
Lee, I certainly do not respect either of the two types of people you mention. However these \'protestors\' are a media nightmare and do themselves and their cause NO justice whatsoever with their antics, blatant disregard for the rule of law and their belief that they are totally above the law. Whatever your feelings are about an issue, the most successful protests are those people who do so with honour, peace and unity. This lot display none of the above and as a result they will never succeed. Vote - like everyone else, lobby your local MP, lobby the relevant Minister - there are alternatives.

The Law.

you talk about the law as if it is divinely wriiten, as if it is always right. It isn't. If i sold guns to a violent psychopath, I would be in trouble with the law, when arms manufacturers sell arms to violent psychopaths Bush, janjaweed, dodgy dictators, etc. they are truly above the law as it it does not apply to them. Me (protester) I am not "above the law" I just more often than not find myself opposed to it, and so resist it by being disobedient. I like the tag media nightmare, if I am giving the media a headache, I am on the right track, thanks.

The majority by a small margin of our population were against war in Iraq, an estimated million people turned out in London to protest with "hounour, dignity and unity" - nothing changed. Which is why we take action against war.

mr H wrote:
I was there, it can hardly be called a riot, more the police using all there powers to lay into vast amounts of people. They started by using the batons on the protesters who where not at all being violent, they then continued to push about the protesters including a woman who i personally saw get knocked to the ground with her baby in her arms. As well at many people left unable to walk due to attacks from the police and people unable to see as pepper spray was used. There must have been over 150 police officers. When the use of dogs to intimidate the protesters came i left, due to the violence i could see comming. Later at about 4oclock or near that time a young boy around 18 or 19 was brutally attacked by the police, the reason was that he was not walking fast enough! Two of the police held him down kicking and beating him with a baton... make of it what you will but i saw it all and have the videos on my phone to prove it.

sure you did Mr H, saw it all! a bit of propoganda will of course help you case Mr H. I was there also and saw the disgusting way our free power to demonstrate was ruined by all the hired thugs that didn't even know where EDO was until today. I saw police officers injured and to be honest the 'protestors' deserved everything they got. Smash EDO are you happy, your hired help now gone home us brightonians left to deal with this tarnished day!

no wonder why our police force have such long waiting times to get to a crime scene,its because they are all over there with those jobless time wasters.stupid hippies!GET A JOB ,THAT WOULD TAKE SOME OF THE WEIGHT OFF US WORKERS SHOULDERS.

Wow - some of the comments condemning an action which is trying to prevent a factory from supplying equipment that will be (and already has been) used to kill many innocent civilians reveal a considerable psychopathological problem.

Guess now I'll have to move to China and get a sweatshop job where I'll be safer and they respect human rights a bit more. At least there they admit to an open totalitarian state.

Whereas Argus-reading reactionaries police their internal psyches with a self-enforced totalitarian state of mind, and end up drowning their lack of mental activity with the inevitable alcohol & prescription tranquiliser habit, depression and early death in misery, after briefly wondering why they never did anything about exploring their own consciences.

my mother was working at a near by factory NOT edo and was traped there while these people shouted broke things and hurled abuse well done on making your point there was nowhere she could go for safty and missed being home for when her son got in from school do you ever think about how your actions affect everyday people yes you should protest but have some concideration for other people please

I guess all you 'get a job'types don't have very important jobs seeing as you have so much time posting on the Argus forum in the middle of the day? As people have mentioned earlier, many of us have jobs. Infact, we are nurses, social workers and a lot of other (dare I day more useful than weapons manufacturing) professions not necessarily involving regular 9-5 hours. (Or maybe a nurse on a nightshift is a disgrace to the country?) Personally I had to use some of my holiday to go on the marsh today and do this on a regular basis. I understand that is is hard for you to believe that someone might feel strongly enough about something to do this. It is always easier to hate people if you categorise them, whether your assumptions are true or not.

I wish the next person who responded with "get a job" would get their head out of their arse. A very large proportion of the demo/riot were intelligent students. To take your attitude, these are students who will probably end up earning a hell of a lot more than you pathetic middle english tax paying, ignorant fools.
The march to moulsecombe was peaceful and very enjoyable until something somewhere went wrong.
The police were excessively brutal. I was just standing in the wrong place and I got violently pushed to the floor and whacked with a baton across the backs of my shoulders. Just for standing. The looks on the faces of some of those police was just pure evil. No hyberbolic word usage here: This policeman with his teeth beared, eyes bulging, dribbling waving his baton around. There was something not quite right in his eyes and they were very provocative towards the protesters.
However the way a certain element behaved was outrageous, especially when they started throwing rocks. Morons didn't even his the police, instead the protesters were getting hit by the rocks. Clever.
As for the smashing of the windows, I witnessed this being done and I must say I don't condone this but at the end of the day the way I see it is that EDO make so much money selling death devices that a few windows is really not the end of the world.
As for the people who work there, they should know better. Could you live with that on your conscience? I'm sorry but no matter how desperate for work I could be I just wouldn't do it. Putting food on the plate for your family? Frankly I'd rather prostitute myself.

dirty good for nothing crustys hippies rioting...... should have thrown bars of soap at them that would have disperced them a bit quicker than the old bill..... get washed get a job and get a life

S Hame wrote:

concerned parent wrote: what a lovely sight for the children to see on their way home from school. god knows how many riot police running down the hill being goaded by protesters. alot of frightened children and parents. good planning by the protestors!!!!!!!!!

Those children should be grateful that they are not on the receiving end of one of the bombs that we help manafacture.

NOR ON THE RECIVING END OF ONE OF THE WHEELIE BINS YOU LOAD OF NO GOOD LAYABOUTS WERE THROWING IN THE ROAD OUTSIDE THE FRANKLIN PUB . O GO ON NOW TELL ME THAT THE PEOPLE WHO DID THIS WERE NOTHING TO DO WITH THE PROTEST BUT ONLY THERE TO CAUSE TROUBLE .THERE WERE PROBABLY ABOUT 10% OF YOU THAT ACCUALLY BELIVE AND UNDERSTAND WHAT YOU ARE FIGHTING FOR BUT THE OTHER 90% WERE JUST THERE TO CAUSE TROUBLE AND COULDNT REALLY GIVE A TOSS IF IT WAS A GUN FACTORY OR A SWEET FACTORY

shinypebble wrote:
I wish the next person who responded with "get a job" would get their head out of their arse. A very large proportion of the demo/riot were intelligent students. To take your attitude, these are students who will probably end up earning a hell of a lot more than you pathetic middle english tax paying, ignorant fools.
The march to moulsecombe was peaceful and very enjoyable until something somewhere went wrong.
The police were excessively brutal. I was just standing in the wrong place and I got violently pushed to the floor and whacked with a baton across the backs of my shoulders. Just for standing. The looks on the faces of some of those police was just pure evil. No hyberbolic word usage here: This policeman with his teeth beared, eyes bulging, dribbling waving his baton around. There was something not quite right in his eyes and they were very provocative towards the protesters.
However the way a certain element behaved was outrageous, especially when they started throwing rocks. Morons didn't even his the police, instead the protesters were getting hit by the rocks. Clever.
As for the smashing of the windows, I witnessed this being done and I must say I don't condone this but at the end of the day the way I see it is that EDO make so much money selling death devices that a few windows is really not the end of the world.
As for the people who work there, they should know better. Could you live with that on your conscience? I'm sorry but no matter how desperate for work I could be I just wouldn't do it. Putting food on the plate for your family? Frankly I'd rather prostitute myself.

No I could happily work there. I am not so arrogant to demand changes just because they don't fit in with my lifestyle or beliefs.

Nowadays there is a me, me, me, me attitude. The vandalism today is just another sign of tantrums being thrown whenever people don't get their own way.

Pathetic fools.

k7hulu wrote:
For those who complain about the scared kids of the schools, have u ever wondered about how the scared kids of IRAQ or PALESTINE feel when they hear the war planes, throwing BOMBS MADE IN BRIGTHON? HAVE YOU EVER WONDERED WHAT WAR FEELS LIKE? YOU BETTER STAND UP FROM UR CHAIRS AND PROTEST FOR SOMETHING THAN COMPLAIN ON THE INTERNET FOR NOTHING! V FOR VIVA LA PALESTINE

IF THEY DONT MAKE THEM IN BRIGTHON MATE THEN THEY WILL JUST MAKE THEM SOMWERE ELSE YOU NEVER KNOW THEY MIGHT EVEN START MAKING THEM IN BRIGHTON .. WHO REALLY GIVES A TOSS . IF YOU LOT REALLY CARE ABOUT WAR AND VIOLENCE THEN YOU WOULDNT HAVE ACTED THE WAY YOU DID TODAY .

Roy Bard wrote:
solja Boy at 8:50: \"I know someone who works for EDO and he said all the ground staff were given a free days holiday so wasn\'t bothered at all by the protest. Seemed a complete waste of time to me!\" Lucky staff - of course ITT still has to pay them - so thats a fair outlay with not a lot in return. All of this stuff adds up and makes the business less and less profitable. I can see the point of that. Lol at all the getajobs who were posting during office hours. Stealing their bosses time, and getting all moralistic in the process. Wonder how much all the self-righteous tax payers will be adding to their council tax to foot the bill for a bunch of cops who just never get it right.

I KNOW SOMEONE WHO WORKS FOR B+Q

Norm wrote:
"No I could happily work there. I am not so arrogant to demand changes just because they don't fit in with my lifestyle or beliefs.

Nowadays there is a me, me, me, me attitude. The vandalism today is just another sign of tantrums being thrown whenever people don't get their own way."

You don't get it, do you? How is refusing to do something which will benefit yourself ( i.e "putting food on you r own table") out of understanding and compassion for the people who have to die in order to make this possible (i.e the people at the receiving end of what is manufactured there) selfish? A lot of us spend weeks in courtcases each year as a result of challenging the arms industry. This is not something you do lighly, it affects the security of your own life and future all the time. Selfishness is doing whatever is best for you no matter what the cost is to people around you.

i dont know if anyone else is seeing this but we are just getting one sided arguments here.
i was in the protest, and like to think i dont need soap bars thrown at me, and im a student and do have a job so i dont know what that about?
but really, you have to look at it like this, there may have been more protesters but the police are TRAINED to use these weapons, and know exactly how to do so. they were armed to the teeth and its as simple as that.
i think someone said about hired thugs? i have had nothing to do with these protests for 2 years... but i still beleive in it. i know some people may have been upset by what happened but not nearly as upset as the people who could hardly walk home, or had there eyes burning with pepper spray or are in cells now for expressing one of there rights? there are idiots who start trouble on the protesters side, but this time they didnt start it, they reacted to it!

Some extremely worrying comments on here. Now I can see how the nazis got to power in Germany. This society is sleepwalking into a right-wing police state. Personally I am all for the demonstrators but they do their cause no good by the violent stuff... However it seems the met like nothing more than a good punch-up.

Nice one Sashka, Lewes. 8.37pm

Spot on.

Spinks wrote:

Jake wrote:
I work full-time job and going to university too. I went to the protest, because I disagree with companies profiting from murder. I admire people who were brave enough to stay face to face with police and to break the windows. If I was brave enough I would burn all muderder factories to the ground. Ive never seen so much police aggresion im my life, but obviously they are there to protect their leaders - the government and the capitalists. Today they showed their face, next time we should be brave enough to kindnap some of their ranks and beat them up, and not let them stand in the way of our struggle against murder and wars.

I think you'll find the job of the police is to serve and protect the public??? I shall reply with no more intelligence than this post deserves.

Demonstators are also 'the public'.

Why dont the Police just shoot these Scumbags.

The Argus is increasingly becoming a laughing stock.
You'd think they'd have more to say and report about yesterdays demo
than a few unsubstantiated lines about a 'riot'.

What do we get from our local paper? A few paragraphs claiming 'riot'.
No comment from the police or from protestors. Nothing from EDO-MBM either.
I can't remember the Argus ever doing a proper bit of journalism and interviewing someone from EDO or a spokesman from Smash EDO.
If they really were a newspaper for Brighton and Hove they'd do this.
EDO-MBM are in Brighton they employ Brighton people, the protestors are in and from Brighton, the Sussex Force polices Brighton.

But no, its far easier to scream 'riot' in a News Of The World style story of less than 50 words, and ask for readers to send pictures.
Perhaps the much depleted number of Argus reporters are being sent to interview people in Hove who've had their cat shot by an airgun, or trying to find an elderly woman who claims to have seen juggling badger in her garden.
Anyone who takes what the Argus says at face value is quite mad.

mr H wrote:
I was there, it can hardly be called a riot, more the police using all there powers to lay into vast amounts of people. They started by using the batons on the protesters who where not at all being violent, they then continued to push about the protesters including a woman who i personally saw get knocked to the ground with her baby in her arms. As well at many people left unable to walk due to attacks from the police and people unable to see as pepper spray was used. There must have been over 150 police officers. When the use of dogs to intimidate the protesters came i left, due to the violence i could see comming. Later at about 4oclock or near that time a young boy around 18 or 19 was brutally attacked by the police, the reason was that he was not walking fast enough! Two of the police held him down kicking and beating him with a baton... make of it what you will but i saw it all and have the videos on my phone to prove it.

Course you were there mate.........Post your videos on u-tube and then let us see the so called "woman with her baby in her arms knocked to the ground". You're talking through your anus mate.
The Police have very strict regulations to adhere to and can't just hold people down and kick the hell out of them.
People like you with your fantasy stories give the Police a bad name. I bet anything you like, when you need their help next time your tune will change. Get a life idiot.

The Argus is increasingly becoming a laughing stock.
You'd think they'd have more to say and report about yesterdays demo
than a few unsubstantiated lines about a 'riot'.

What do we get from our local paper? A few paragraphs claiming 'riot'.
No comment from the police or from protestors. Nothing from EDO-MBM either.
I can't remember the Argus ever doing a proper bit of journalism and interviewing someone from EDO or a spokesman from Smash EDO.
If they really were a newspaper for Brighton and Hove they'd do this.
EDO-MBM are in Brighton they employ Brighton people, the protestors are in and from Brighton, the Sussex Force polices Brighton.

But no, its far easier to scream 'riot' in a News Of The World style story of less than 50 words, and ask for readers to send pictures.
Perhaps the much depleted number of Argus reporters are being sent to interview people in Hove who've had their cat shot by an airgun, or trying to find an elderly woman who claims to have seen a juggling badger in her garden.
Anyone who takes what the Argus says at face value is quite mad.

All the anti-protest comments on this page, posted during office hours must have come from one of two groups of people:

1) People who spend their working day trawling the Argus website, who can hardly use the "Get a Job" line when they clearly aren't hard at work.

2) People who knew things had got spicy on the demo, and came on here to rant. The only people who would have known are EDO employees, as that is where the 'trouble' took place.

Video footage has been passed to the SMASH EDO legal campaign of police using tear gas on a protesteor BEFORE the 'trouble had started for simply being at the front of the crowd, a young lady being picked up and thrown like a rag doll by the police for sitting on the edge of the road, and a man being struck viciously on the arm by a police officer for walking past the police line, apparently trying to leave the area.

Subsequent legal action will determine who the real perpetrators of violence were. Maybe we should let the courts decide, rather than whining on the Argus forum? especially those who condemn protest as 'ineffective'. Believe me, internet blogging is 1000% less effective.

All the anti-protest comments on this page, posted during office hours must have come from one of two groups of people:

1) People who spend their working day trawling the Argus website, who can hardly use the "Get a Job" line when they clearly aren't hard at work.

2) People who knew things had got spicy on the demo, and came on here to rant. The only people who would have known are EDO employees, as that is where the 'trouble' took place.

Video footage has been passed to the SMASH EDO legal campaign of police using tear gas on a protesteor BEFORE the 'trouble had started for simply being at the front of the crowd, a young lady being picked up and thrown like a rag doll by the police for sitting on the edge of the road, and a man being struck viciously on the arm by a police officer for walking past the police line, apparently trying to leave the area.

Subsequent legal action will determine who the real perpetrators of violence were. Maybe we should let the courts decide, rather than whining on the Argus forum? especially those who condemn protest as 'ineffective'. Believe me, internet blogging is 1000% less effective.

John wrote:

mr H wrote:
I was there, it can hardly be called a riot, more the police using all there powers to lay into vast amounts of people. They started by using the batons on the protesters who where not at all being violent, they then continued to push about the protesters including a woman who i personally saw get knocked to the ground with her baby in her arms. As well at many people left unable to walk due to attacks from the police and people unable to see as pepper spray was used. There must have been over 150 police officers. When the use of dogs to intimidate the protesters came i left, due to the violence i could see comming. Later at about 4oclock or near that time a young boy around 18 or 19 was brutally attacked by the police, the reason was that he was not walking fast enough! Two of the police held him down kicking and beating him with a baton... make of it what you will but i saw it all and have the videos on my phone to prove it.

Course you were there mate.........Post your videos on u-tube and then let us see the so called "woman with her baby in her arms knocked to the ground". You're talking through your anus mate.
The Police have very strict regulations to adhere to and can't just hold people down and kick the hell out of them.
People like you with your fantasy stories give the Police a bad name. I bet anything you like, when you need their help next time your tune will change. Get a life idiot.

Na, the police dont need any help from protestors.
Its things like fitting up people for terrorism and failing to carry out a proper investigation into the death of Stephen Lawrence that give the police a bad name.

k7hulu wrote:
For those who complain about the scared kids of the schools, have u ever wondered about how the scared kids of IRAQ or PALESTINE feel when they hear the war planes, throwing BOMBS MADE IN BRIGTHON? HAVE YOU EVER WONDERED WHAT WAR FEELS LIKE? YOU BETTER STAND UP FROM UR CHAIRS AND PROTEST FOR SOMETHING THAN COMPLAIN ON THE INTERNET FOR NOTHING! V FOR VIVA LA PALESTINE

Another Illegal Immigrant!

Well, we all know that most of the "protestors" are probably out of work and have nothing better to do than get together for what they see as an afternoon of free entertainment. Instead of protesting, why don't they join some kind of charity? That way they could channel their energy into something positive. Perhaps the courts should force those arrested in to undertaking something charitable?

Dave wrote:
Some extremely worrying comments on here. Now I can see how the nazis got to power in Germany. This society is sleepwalking into a right-wing police state. Personally I am all for the demonstrators but they do their cause no good by the violent stuff... However it seems the met like nothing more than a good punch-up.

Posters on here seem to have fallen hook line and sinker for the report by argus that it was a full blown riot, it quite obviously wasn't. The policing was provocative with protesters regualrly being blocked from their route or penned in, and as a result there were some successfull attempts to push through the police lines, the police responded with batons CS spray and dogs. The Argus went on to say in the video report on this website that brighton was brought to a standstill! so please asserting your right for freedom of movement and protest is not "violent stuff" and this was not a riot!

This society is sleepwalking into a right-wing police state.

I think your find its sleepwalking into a LEFT-WING police state.

Lou wrote:
Well, we all know that most of the "protestors" are probably out of work and have nothing better to do than get together for what they see as an afternoon of free entertainment. Instead of protesting, why don't they join some kind of charity? That way they could channel their energy into something positive. Perhaps the courts should force those arrested in to undertaking something charitable?

Well given that this was one afternoon, perhaps on other days some of them do work for charities, perhaps many of them took a day off work to protest about somethng they feel strongly about.

No one KNOWS what the protestors do or dont do away from the demo.

The many comments from posters who say the protestors are ''out of work scroungers'' are just childish name calling.
A kind of therapy for armchair bigots.

It adds nothing to the
debate.

Protest! Count me out.Far to busy at Starbucks.

Dave wrote:
Protesting at 3pm? shouldn't they be in work at that time of the day?!.. Oh..

Well there is a thing called taking a day off work you know!

yesturday's protest was a disgrace,my two cousins aged 5 and 9 were on way home from school very very scared,why should these prostest keep happening when the protesters are causing trouble,smashing windows etc what a joke

Well, at least their more useful than the 'parasites' who sit at home or hang out in town, claim benefits and use abusive language all day, now thats a good sight for our kids! These people have a right to demonstrate and a lot of them have jobs but took a day off!!!

it makes me laugh that the protestors think the police were heavy handed,they are protecting property and people,honest hard working people at edo,who will the the protestors be calling next time their houses are burgled or they are mugged ........well it wont be the ghost busters will it,it wil be the boys in blue,good work sussex police and i hope the police men that were injured by theses thugs have a speedy recovery

bill wrote:
it makes me laugh that the protestors think the police were heavy handed,they are protecting property and people,honest hard working people at edo,who will the the protestors be calling next time their houses are burgled or they are mugged ........well it wont be the ghost busters will it,it wil be the boys in blue,good work sussex police and i hope the police men that were injured by theses thugs have a speedy recovery

interesting how they can find 150 Police Officers, probably on very expensive overtime, but if you call 999 then they're suddenly busy doing paperwork

Ben Martin wrote:

John wrote:

mr H wrote: I was there, it can hardly be called a riot, more the police using all there powers to lay into vast amounts of people. They started by using the batons on the protesters who where not at all being violent, they then continued to push about the protesters including a woman who i personally saw get knocked to the ground with her baby in her arms. As well at many people left unable to walk due to attacks from the police and people unable to see as pepper spray was used. There must have been over 150 police officers. When the use of dogs to intimidate the protesters came i left, due to the violence i could see comming. Later at about 4oclock or near that time a young boy around 18 or 19 was brutally attacked by the police, the reason was that he was not walking fast enough! Two of the police held him down kicking and beating him with a baton... make of it what you will but i saw it all and have the videos on my phone to prove it.

Course you were there mate.........Post your videos on u-tube and then let us see the so called \"woman with her baby in her arms knocked to the ground\". You\'re talking through your anus mate. The Police have very strict regulations to adhere to and can\'t just hold people down and kick the hell out of them. People like you with your fantasy stories give the Police a bad name. I bet anything you like, when you need their help next time your tune will change. Get a life idiot.

Na, the police dont need any help from protestors. Its things like fitting up people for terrorism and failing to carry out a proper investigation into the death of Stephen Lawrence that give the police a bad name.

You quote 2 cases from the last 10 years out of billions of successful cases and hardwork by the police force. The media will bever bring to your attention the success stories, certainly not the argus as it wouldnt sell papers.

carry out a proper investigation into the death of Stephen Lawrence that give the police a bad name.

hahaha you should have a look at the Ricky Everett investigation for an example of incompetence and the race issue getting in the way of justice.

The poster boy for the all white people are bad gang have done a fantastic job on the old bill, and the mcpherson report has DIRECTLY contributed to why so many kids are dyingt on Londons streets because the Mets paranoia about the professional 'race relations' lobby.

Idiot. You try fighting all this with both hands tied behind your back. The old bill need a bit of support, you never know they may have saved you from terrorism without you even knowing.

There seem to be a reasonable number of people on this site who think that everyone should work in the day, should not have wierd hair, should not grow their own vegetables, like tress, or question the notion that it is ethical/ Christian (or insert faith of choice) to protect ourselves with technology that we know kills innocent people, but in a country where we lock up people who commit manslaughter.

I suggest that if you all feel this strongly about such people you should publicise your views with a protest march. If you would like to catch my attention it will have to be during the day, as I am usually at home before and after work, so you would simply be advertising your concerns to an empty street.

The so called riot seemed very restrained to my observation. I saw no violence against people (apart from police truncheons) The only dammage to property appeared to be to the windows at EDO. I was supprised not to see cars trashed ! A lot of protesters have had time off work, like myself, from jobs that don't involve supporting killing people in ilegal and immoral wars. well done to all concerned and keep up the good work !

I am wage-labourer and see myself as a working class. I couldnt go to the protest, because I was working, but the protesters have my deep SOLIDARITY. I believe that the government is wrong to use our tax money to support corporations that profit from murder.

Congratulations for the brave youth who managed to prove stronger that the corporate henchmen - the police!

Much of the comments here are quite depressing. I stand fully behind the protesters, and wish I was there (for the record - in case any of the "jobless" stuff might be thrown my way - I have a professional technical job, a first class degree and a salary well above average).

1. Scared schoolchildren? Not only might they learn about people standing up for firmly held beliefs, but they can count themselves lucky too. Just imagine how scared Iraqi children would have been as bombs made with EDO components rained down on Baghdad and Falluja!

2. There's a lot of guessing here about whether people are jobless, sponging off the state, whether they really understand their cause, or are just out for a bit of uber-violence. There's no evidence for any of this conjecture, of course, but for some commenters here, that's unimportant. In reality, this serves as a powerful excuse for lazy people to continue reading the Daily Mail whilst not doing anything about the horrific state of the world we live in. Well done to the protesters for doing exactly that.

3. Some of the commenters here are so frothing with anger that "EDO should have turned their weapons on the do-gooders", and " the gates". Also, they "should have bombed the Level", or "about time the police ... got rid ". Is this the level reactionary politics has descended to? Anyone disagreeing with the status quo, no matter how unfair it is, should be murdered or "disappeared"? I thought that, whatever our political disagreements, we all agree that no-one deserves to be killed for their political beliefs, and here are several people calling for exactly that. Someone else wants their houses to be burgled, or for the "feds to with truncheons". Anna Quay makes a reference to protesters being "in an unmarked grave somewhere".

4. Jo H has had the inconvenience of being delayed for an hour on her way home, and suggests that high council tax rates would be a much more worthwhile protest. Both of these of course are much more important than children in foreign countries being murdered in an illegal war by our own government. This is the problem with reactionary politics: it is by definition selfish ("how do I pay less tax") and ignores the substantially larger plight of people elsewhere (to Jo, Iraqis and Palestinians et al are "unpeople", as Mark Curtis would put it).

5. The idea that letter-writing and peaceful protest will accomplish social justice is wonderfully nice, but it's also wrong. It took a few letters and peaceful demonstrations for me to recognise this myself. A good case in point is the 2006 bombing of the Lebanon, which was supported by the "axil of evil" of UK, USA and Israel. All other countries opposed it (the Independent, which I am not a big fan of by the way, had a good cover: 3 flags in favour on on side, hundreds against on the other). Letter-writing on Iraq and Afghanistan had been exhausted, and yet the military-industrial-
govt complex pushed through a murderous assault anyway.

6. Someone suggested earlier that "he wouldn't protest with them if they paid ". I think this is missing the point - protest is something you do if you feel viscerally about something, not for personal gain. And it's not even about a good time and drinking, but often these things are seen on demos because of the solidarity felt between people who genuinely feel they are fighting for a cause with like-minded people.

7. Charity work and VSO - these are all nice, respectable, safe causes, aren't they? Which is why the police don't harass Oxfam and Save the Children. They are necessary to help patch up the damage our current system is doing to the world, but THEY DON'T CHANGE THE UNDERLYING STRUCTURE OF SOCIETY. This is what confrontational protest is intended to achieve, and does, the world over. Voting has much the same problem - the power of the individual concerned enough to vote non-selfishly (i.e. not many people) is too diffuse to have any measurable effect.

8. The idea that the police are there simply to "serve and protect" is the official line, but it's not the whole story. If you read academic politics or learned political treatises, you'll find (and you'd experience in the flesh if you were a protestor) that in a modern society, the police and the army are also employed to protect the elite from the population. This is what perpetuates an unfair world: the people who are busy murdering and starving the world are the ones with the state power (guns, batons, tazers, riot equipment etc).

-----

Just to finish off - I'd urge anyone who is bitterly opposed to the protest to consider the root causes of the clash. SmashEDO is committed to closing down a weapons company who has knowingly participated in a war crime, and has cost them over a million pounds in legal fees already. The violence we create remotely, at the touch of a button, in Iraq, Afghanistan, Palestine, Lebanon, Somalia, is done without much regard for civilian life. Could we not all try to think what it would be like to find ones wife killed by bomb debris, or the effects of a cluster bomblets on children? Imagine Iraq had dropped many tonnes of murderous munition on Brighton? How powerless would commenters feel then? How would we all feel about an Iraqi factory cheerfully making weapons that are used to kill our parents? Would we sit and compose a letter?

The Police have very strict regulations to adhere to and can't just hold people down and kick the hell out of them.

Hah! Might I suggest you were on drugs? Either that or you have no experience of police behaviour when it comes to people voicing a political opinion.. The police frequently beat, intimidate and unlawfully arrest people who are expressing their right to free assembly if it doesn't suit them or if they are colluding with companies. It has been documented that EDO/MBM have actually paid Sussex Police in the past to attend peaceful demos and stir up trouble, so it's not even the taxpayer footing all the bill! The police are being hired out to big business as a private force operating above the law when they could be serving the people and not acting as a private security firm with legal impunity... Here's a photo of police subduing an obviously violent and threatening protester and 'adhering to regulations' his mere prescence must have been very scary for all of them just like the dangerous looking woman standing next to him http://indymedia.org

.uk/images/2008/06/4

00222.jpg


At yesterday's march the police were trying to stop protestors gathering in the road outside the factory, a public road which every citizen has the right to stand on, protest on and associate with whoever they like there.. People pushing forwards through the police lines were not breaking any law as they have every legal right to be on the road, the police were trying to stop people expressing a fundamental democratic right by telling people where they can and can't protest.

When the law is serving the interests of corporations and not the interests of the population then surely something isn't quite right there. I'm quite amazed these hard working taxpayers so prevelant here actually want the police working for business and not for the population..

We have a right to protest and voice our opinions. Those opinions are continually stiffled by police intervention.

The majority are there to voice these opinions, not commit criminal damage.

Yet the Police instigated the trouble by preventing us from standing outside the factory to voice our opinions, and then by taking unjustified and unprovoked batton swings (starting with officer C66) at those mearly holding the SMASH EDO banners.

People in the front line, and the greater majority, were sensible in coming to the protest unarmed, yet were battered by police onslaught, tazered, CS gased, and set on by police dogs.

I nearly got my leg bitten into, just for walking peacefully past an officer! On the other hand, the officer looked very aggresive with snarling teeth, and actually looked like he was enjoying himself! Must be said that the majority of the police there seemed to be very aggressive towards many a peaceful protester.

Shout "peace not war" and your met with three of four angry police officers looking at you like your dirt.

And what the hell is with police trying to murder people? That's right... TRYING TO PUSH PEOPLE OVER A 75-100ft DROP WOULD CONSTITUTE MURDER.

Fighting fire with water holds no effect. I'm happy to say, from here on in it's a fire vs fire all the way. If it's OK for EDO/MBM/ITT, it's OK for me.

Just I won't be profiting from the possible death of individuals.

Oh dear, the commenting system ate my text (anything in square brackets is erased)! If an admin is around, perhaps they could fix my comment, otherwise point 3 should have been as follows.

3. Some of the commenters here are so frothing with anger that "EDO should have turned their weapons on the do-gooders", and "(electrified) the gates". Also, they "should have bombed the Level", or "about time the police ... got rid (of the protestors)". Is this the level reactionary politics has descended to? Anyone disagreeing with the status quo, no matter how unfair it is, should be murdered or "disappeared"? I thought that, whatever our political disagreements, we all agree that no-one deserves to be killed for their political beliefs, and here are several people calling for exactly that. Someone else wants their houses to be burgled, or for the "feds (sic) to (club them) with truncheons". Anna Quay makes a reference to protesters being "in an unmarked grave somewhere".

For all you liberal, lilly livered tree huggers, if we hadn't of had firms like this then the period of 1939 to 1945 might of had a very different results, you could quite possibly be speaking German and goosestepping everywhere! Still we wouldn't have to put up with free speech and comments like yours would we? Now run run along, buy a woolly jumper and retrain to be a social worker.

Don't worry my little subjects, the 60 days detention without charge will soon be here to deal with all these dirty work shy undesirables/activis
ts. Calm, law and order will be restored.

OMG wrote:
For all you liberal, lilly livered tree huggers, if we hadn't of had firms like this then the period of 1939 to 1945 might of had a very different results, you could quite possibly be speaking German and goosestepping everywhere! Still we wouldn't have to put up with free speech and comments like yours would we? Now run run along, buy a woolly jumper and retrain to be a social worker.

The hilarious thing is in the period from 1939-1945 firms like this were selling weapons to us and the Germans- at the same time! Read up on the history of ITT before you make such dumb statements- ITT, who now own EDO/MBM, owned 25% of Focke-Wulf, the firm building many of the Luftwaffe aircraft used to bomb Britain as well as making cash payments to Heinrich Himmler!
http://www.reformati
on.org/wall-st-ch5.h
tml for info on how deep in with the Nazis ITT were. Your ignorance is shocking..

If companies like ITT had their way we'd still be fighting wars so they could fund both sides and make a 'killer' profit-- Ooops, they already are..

People fought for the right to be able to assemble where and when they want- not to have the police do as they please and make a mockery of those who fought against fascism, which is essentially what they tried to do on behalf of the warmongers. Think about what the people who died fighting facism would feel about the police telling you where you can and can't protest..

Stewart wrote:
This society is sleepwalking into a right-wing police state. I think your find its sleepwalking into a LEFT-WING police state.

Erm, please expain what you mean by sleepwalking into a LEFT-WING police state i am intrigued. Failure to answer means you have simply taken rightwing police state, and replaced it with leftwing police state in order to sound clever, whilst actually making a tit out of yourself.

OMG wrote:
For all you liberal, lilly livered tree huggers, if we hadn't of had firms like this then the period of 1939 to 1945 might of had a very different results, you could quite possibly be speaking German and goosestepping everywhere! Still we wouldn't have to put up with free speech and comments like yours would we? Now run run along, buy a woolly jumper and retrain to be a social worker.

Too right, how are we supposed to fight a war, nevermind start any new ones without weapons.Thankfully most protestors were rounded up and shot prior to 1939(like suggested by some on this board) otherwise WWII might never have happened and what would have become of the arms industry then?

Octavia wrote:
I saw the protest in the Lewes Road and there were hardly "Hundreds of protesters". Another case of the Argus misreporting.

As a journalist covering the event (not for the Argus) I made a careful count of the marchers on the Lewes Road shortly before the bridge at Moulscombe. There were roughly 600, so the Argus report is accurate in that respect.

I wish you were all as enthused about "smashing Terrorism" People like the IRA,Bin Laden etc..

Then the need for huge weapons construction would not be needed,If the factory closed and weapons were needed the MOD have enough resource to make their own on an MOD base. I'm sure you wont be protesting at Caterick or Purbright.

I have first hand experience of Ebo as I serve as a Royal Engineer (explosive ordnance disposal) and I dont see that protesting at Ebo is just, Protest at downing street! and get our Lads home!!!

And boycot the USA!
Amazing how many cans of a brand of cola were being consumed yesterday!

OMG wrote:
Riots? Damaged cars? Smashed a few windows? Sounds like a normal Moulscombe residents day out to me !!!

How dare you assume that all people that live in Moulsecoomb should be used to such actions!!! I am and have always been a moulsecoomb resident and work hard along with my husband along with alot of others on this estate. Don't presume anything about our estate and it's residents it is a friendly neighbourhood. Bad things happen at times just the same as other areas. Many people on our estate have read this comment and are furious!!!!!!!!

It was too tempting to come back! Did I just see a comment along the lines of, 'If we didn`t make weapons to kill innocent people and give to dictators someone else would'? So if I use a weapon to attack someone`s home, kill some of their family and they complain I can just say to them, "Yeh, but if I didn`t do it that morally corrupt opportunist down the road with a similar weapon would do it!"

Yes, ITT were involved in helping Hitler`s regime and Pinochet`s in 1973. Thousands of innocents were killed in Chile with the support of the US establishment; the date was 11th September. There`s irony for you.

Another irony is that Prescott Bush, George W`s grandfather, actively helped arm Hitler`s regime because it was a 'good little earner'. So the Bush family`s wealth was helped by arming the nazis. It`s well documented. Robert Parry wrote a good piece about it recently. (He exposed the arming of the contras in Nicaragua as well. They used to like bombing schools, health clinics and civilians with the help of Reagan.) Parry`s article here:

http://www.consortiu

mnews.com/2008/05180

8.html

Don`t forget that the Saudi regime is very friendly with the bunch of vote riggers - yes, they are vote riggers - in the Bush regime. What about the redacted pages which allegedly link the Saudi regime to the 9/11 attacks? Prince Bandar is sometimes referred to as 'Bandar Bush' because he is so friendly with the Bush family. He even stays with the extended family for relaxing holidays.

Oh yes, close down the School of Americas or WHISC at Fort Benning in the state of Georgia. The US military trains Latin American personnel in how to kill and torture more efficiently.

http://www.soaw.org/



We all support the fight against terrorism but that means all terrorism not just looking the other way when governments closer to home use it -Operation Gladio, State of Tension, etc...

how these people can go on about a small chip that can be placed into a bomb to terrorise people and kill them, don't you think what you don't yesterday is a form of terrorism you are just as bad! and for that fool who commented on children who live and are brought up in this area how dare you assume that stuff that has happened in the past go's on in all the home's, you are a fool and how dare you, you discust me do not tarn people with the same brush and to assume we are witnessing what you may have witnessed in your upbringing you are wrong and again i say you are a FOOL!

quote

I hate your political noise.
You are the same fools that spray Anarchy on walls...

I cant wait till I stumble across some one doing such an act, I will see how far I can go before they call the "corrupt" police themselves.

take 90% of the march to one side and question, they would have no idea and flaws in they Ideals.

Why do you all wear army surplus gear? boots? jackets?

Your funding arms!

Why do you all do drugs? K,speed,grass?

Your funding arms!

You are all Hypocritical idiots.

Paying tax? your funding arms! Oh? or dont you pay tax?

Ah evasion of taxes! Illegal!

Drinking on the Level and the streets of Brighton! Illegal!

Vandalism of Cars! Illegal!

So much for a Genuine movement! you have no credible status!

We should all be proud that there are still amongst us those that will stand up for a right and peaceful society. Shame on Brighton Police for their heavy handed approach...no wonder Brighton was known as Pig City for so long.

Lou wrote:
Well, we all know that most of the "protestors" are probably out of work and have nothing better to do than get together for what they see as an afternoon of free entertainment. Instead of protesting, why don't they join some kind of charity? That way they could channel their energy into something positive. Perhaps the courts should force those arrested in to undertaking something charitable?

Please tell us how you know most of the protesters are out of work, I would argue that the largest demographic represented at the protest was students, the majority of students have to work part time jobs.

I see the march is being portrayed as some sort of "success".

Some success!!! :-

One of you dead en route.
One of you with a suspected broken arm.
10 still held by the police (and only one of those came from Brighton).

Thats not a success!

In my day rent a mob was much larger is 350 all you can scrabble together from across the country?- not much of a mob more enough for a game of rounders with some supporters. Brighton & Hove Albion has bigger attendances at it games than that!

The police gave you all a hiding - it was deserved - be big enough to accept it - the real people of Brighton might have a bit more respect for you if you took your punishment without blubbing like a baby!

Now for those of you that don't live here - get out of our town you are making it look untidy!

I have no love of the Police at all for various reasons.
But, I can not believe the comments of the demonstrators.
You deliberately make the situation difficult for the Police and want them to make mistakes. Then complain when they do something you do not like, which is what you want them to do.
You have lost any moral highground. I was in the save the hospital march in Chichester, nearly 2000 people, very few Police and no violence and no arrests.
Your methods are wrong.

Do the people of Palastine give a crap about us??? I doubt it.
Who remembers watching Iraqi people, on the news, dancing in the street when they discovered the the two towers had been destroyed by suicide. That was before the invasion of Iraq!!!
Why don't you go and protest in Palastine, Korea and Iraq and see how long you live.
Our country is better than theirs, you be grateful our Police are too.
I saw some of the protest and how they were treating the Police, if that was in any of the above countries, you would have been arrested and never seen again.

Simon wrote:
EDO should have turned their weapons on the do-gooders. If it weren't for the sterling work of companies like EDO, our good lads in the middle-east wouldn't be able to defend themselves. EDO should electrify the gates next time.

Scum - pure and simple. All these protesters have one thing on what can laughingly be called their "mind" and that is to have a go at authority whether it be the Police or whoever. Dress it up however you want as "smash EDO" or "Wombles" or bike riders or whatever but the truth is that their all authority hating anti-establishment scum that do not have the balls to go and protest about Palestine in Palestine or Iraq in Iraq but have to do it on the streets of Brighton and disrupt the lives or normal WORKERS. And we are stupid enough to keep paying these parasites benefits - words fail me. A suitable punishment would be to put them in the Army !!

Brilliant! What was I saying about ignorance? Where to start! Why should the Palestinians care about us? They`ve had so much taken from them and it continues. Those weren`t Iraqis shown celebrating, they were Palestinians, but they were celebrating something else...not 9/11. Some not so clever propagandist used the footage to tarnish the Palestinian people. Elsewhere, many people took to the streets of Tehran to hold a candle-lit vigil after the 9/11 attacks out of solidarity with the US. If memory serves me right on this as well - a subsidiary of a company in which either Cheney or Rumsfeld was involved with helped Korea with its nuclear programme. The Bush regime was planning an invasion of Iraq in January 2001 long before the 9/11 attacks. Cheney drew up plans to gain control of Iraq`s oil (Greg Palast reported on these damning documents; he was the one who found rigging of the US Presidential voting in 2000 and 2004 as well). The Bush regime lied about Iraq`s links to 9/11. Do people still believe that bull?!

Best wishes and solidarity to Marie Vesco`s family and friends. Shame on anyone who celebrates her death.

white wrote:

k7hulu wrote:
For those who complain about the scared kids of the schools, have u ever wondered about how the scared kids of IRAQ or PALESTINE feel when they hear the war planes, throwing BOMBS MADE IN BRIGTHON? HAVE YOU EVER WONDERED WHAT WAR FEELS LIKE? YOU BETTER STAND UP FROM UR CHAIRS AND PROTEST FOR SOMETHING THAN COMPLAIN ON THE INTERNET FOR NOTHING! V FOR VIVA LA PALESTINE

Another Illegal Immigrant!

Recent discovery proves, ancient civilizations may have used the internet.

Thanks to all those people who commented on the protest without being there or seeing what happened at all, but have been carried along on a wave of their own preconceived prejudices. You have eloquently expressed your own self-loathing by what you have projected onto others. Don't worry - tomorrow's police state will welcome you with open arms and take away what 'freedoms' you have left.

Here's a couple of quotes for you -
"In Germany, they came first for the Communists, And I didn’t speak up because I wasn’t a Communist;

And then they came for the trade unionists, And I didn’t speak up because I wasn’t a trade unionist;

And then they came for the Jews, And I didn’t speak up because I wasn’t a Jew;

And then . . . they came for me . . . And by that time there was no one left to speak up."
- Pastor Martin Niemöller

and -

'Never forget that everything Hitler did in Germany was legal.'
- Martin Luther King Jr.

To all those who have criticised the protest on the grounds that it was a waste of taxpayer's money: if you did three minute's research, you would realise that EDO works for the British government - which means, yes, our tax money has largely funded the factory in the first place. EDO would not exist here without our money paying for its products. Now, can any of you - who all seem to have good jobs, work hard, and pay your taxes - think of a better use for your money than making bomb components to blow up people on the other side of the world?

Thanks to all the people who turned out for the protest, they made a real difference. no one died anywhere else in the world and no more bombs have been made thankyou all so much.

not

Get real you loosers you go on about edo killing people blah blah blah...edo is nothing but a small fish in a big sea and if any of you were as intelligent as you try to be maybe you would find someone to really fight with.

and the bombs this country makes protect your ****, if you dont like it go live elsewhere

you have all made a real differnce and we shall all change the way we live, no one will die anymore no one will make anything bad and you shall all be heroes

Two ITT/ EDO Corporation directors, James Roth and Robert M. Hanisee are also directors of L3 Titan Corporation. At least one lawsuit is pending regarding the treatment of an Iraqi in Abu Ghraib. Seymour Hersh of The New Yorker has done the best reporting on Abu Ghraib; many innocent Iraqis were just taken off the street even though they were not involved in any violence. CACI is another company which worked alongside L3 Titan.

It is very like the prison at Guantanamo Bay. Most of the men imprisoned there are innocent. It has been proven. Well done to The Argus for supporting the case of Omar Deghayes, by the way.

If anyone wants to look at the case of ex-FBI translator Sibel Edmonds they will find she implicates Marc Grossman and even Dennis Hastert, the ex-speaker of the House, in covering-up very sinister groups, including Turkish criminals (there`s a link with Valerie Plame`s exposure as a CIA agent by Karl Rove and the Bush regime as well) that have so much influence they were able to infiltrate and spy within the US which allowed the 9/11 attacks to take place. Grossman is part of the Cohen Group - set-up by William Cohen, who served in the Clinton administration - and last time I checked...EDO. Grossman served as Under Secretary of State for Political Affairs for the Bush regime and was US ambassador to Turkey a few years ago.

Look out for Science Applications International Corporation (SAIC) as well. They even got the contract to run Iraq`s tv news - Pentagon propaganda; ex-US intelligence run the company. A very good friend of mine did research on them and they scared her. She said they are a very dodgy, sinister company.

Make sure you read Dahr Jamail`s book about the occupation of Iraq; the best book about the occupation. It shows the reality of what has been done in Iraq. Just use a search engine for these names and enjoy the discoveries.

And I haven`t even mentioned PNAC and the Carlyle Group/bin Ladens and Bushes!

Barack Obama declared his support for Jerusalem being the capital of Israel last week. Er, that`s against international law, by the way.

Zbigniew Brzezinski is one of Obama`s foreign policy advisers. He served Carter`s administration and actively supported the setting up of extremists in Afghanistan before Russia invaded.

Search for 'bin Laden+Zbigniew Brzezinski'...who is that standing next Zbigniew?

Good to see Dennis Kucinucich brought Articles of Impeachment of Bush ealier this week.

At the risk of turning this into the Matt show - a couple more. A link to the 9/11 Timeline, which shows a proper investigation of 9/11 is still wanted (look up Luai Sakra and Ali Mohamed for example - links with Al Qaeda and CIA?), and a new article about the Bush family and its war profiteering...

http://www.cooperati
veresearch.org/proje
ct.jsp?project=911_p
roject

http://www.counterpu
nch.org/lendman06112
008.html

SueAnn Arrigo's Explosive Revelations

Exposing Pentagon and CIA Corruption

By STEPHEN LENDMAN

Information for this article comes from long-time business, finance and political writer and analyst Bob Chapman who publishes the bi-weekly International Forecaster. It's power-packed with key information and a valued source for this writer. He obtained voluminous material directly from its source. People need to know it. Read on.

SueAnn Arrigo is the source. She was a high-level CIA insider. Her title was Special Operations Advisor to the Director of Central Intelligence (DCI). She also established the Remote Viewing Defense protocols for the Pentagon in her capacity as Remote Viewing Advisor to the Joint Chiefs of Staff (JCS). It earned her a two-star general rank in the military. She called it a "ploy" so the Pentagon could get more of her time and have her attend monthly Joint Chiefs of Staff meetings. Only high-level types are invited, and she was there from October 2003 to July 2004.

Part of her job involved intelligence gathering on Iraq and Afghanistan - until August 2004 when she refused to spread propaganda about a non-existant Iranian nuclear weapons program and left. She followed in the footsteps of others at CIA who resigned for reasons of conscience and became critics - most notably Ray McGovern, Ralph McGehee, and Phil Agee.

On May 16, 2008, Arrigo sent extensive government corruption and cover-up information to Henry Waxman, Chairman of the House Oversight and Government Reform committee - in 12 separate cases. This article covers four of them or about one-third of what Congress got. The 12 are explosive and revealing but just the tip of the iceberg:

-- of government corruption and war profiteering;

-- sweetheart deals and kickbacks;

-- high-level types on the take;

-- trillions of missing dollars;

-- on September 10, 2001, Rumsfeld admitting "According to some estimates, we cannot track $2.3 trillion in transactions;"

-- imagine the current amount;

-- its corrosive effect on the nation; and people should

-- demand accountability - who profits, who pays and what are the consequences of militarism gone mad.

SueAnn Arrigo offers a glimpse and at great personal risk. In August 2001, DCI George Tenet told her to assemble "a moving van full of Pentagon documents showing Defense Contractor kickbacks to Pentagon officials." She did as instructed but not to expose corruption as she learned - to conceal it and in her judgment so CIA could divert defense business to Halliburton and "Carlyle-related contractors." She stated: "The mood at the CIA and Pentagon was 'war is coming' because the Bush Family stands to make billions from it -- so get ready."

Arrigo was shocked at what she found and how brazenly the Pentagon wrote it up because it feels untouchable, especially since 2001. That notion proved misguided after CIA used the material to blackmail or bribe its officials "into 'working on' the Halliburton-Carlyle team." Top CIA types were involved, and Tenet laid it out for Arrigo: You've "given me the keys to the kingdom. (These) documents will make me rich."

She collected three types. Her report covers one but has plenty of incriminating evidence. Her precise recall of dates and names is incomplete, but events are factually right and damning on how Washington operates. It's always been this way but never to the degree as under George Bush. Arrigo exposes the scheme - the systematic looting of the treasury to enrich contractors and high-level officials at Pentagon, CIA and others well-placed in government. Precise amounts are unknown, but at mimimum are countless multi-billions, even trillions - at taxpayer expense and diverted from essential social and infrastructure needs.

Case 1: Ordering Unneeded New Fighter Aircraft

Arrigo discovered high-level Pentagon corruption. It involved bid-rigging and implicated "an Air Force general on the JCS and a Defense Contractor, Boeing." She disclosed it to JCS Chairman Hugh Shelton and DCI George Tenet, and in both instances drew blanks. She also reported it to the Government Accountability Office (GAO), the investigative arm of Congress. It was vetted and confirmed, but left unaddressed the larger issue of whether new generation planes are needed at an enormous cost to taxpayers. Arrigo believed not, and several Air Force generals agreed. Not other JCS members, however, who she learned are on the take.

There's more. They "had the gall to try to force through another unneeded plane contract for Boeing." At an early 2004 JCS meeting, Arrigo complained about the previous undelivered order because it didn't meet Pentagon specifications. Yet one general in particular tried "to force the US military to buy another (unneeded) upgrade." One other JCS member backed her to no avail, and the new order went through. Arrigo rightfully concluded that new plane orders were to enrich Boeing and high-level Pentagon types getting kickbacks for their cooperation.

She also learned how much - an average $22,000 "for each (JCS meeting) vote according to their bank" records. Not US ones. CIA-arranged Swiss accounts specifically for this purpose. Everyone at the meeting cashed in, except Arrigo and one dissenting general. More disturbing is that this is standard Pentagon practice - handouts to contractors; kickbacks to complicit brass; and taxpayers out multi-billions - year after year.

Jeff St. Clair wrote about it in his 2005 book "Grand Theft Pentagon: Tales of Corruption and Profiteering in the War on Terror." It's an explosive account of how contractors like Halliburton, Lockheed Martin, Boeing, Bechtel and the Bush family-connected Carlyle Group scam multi-billions at taxpayer expense and not a whiff of it in the mainstream. It's the reason US annual "defense" spending tops $1.1 trillion (conservatively) with all military, homeland security, veterans, NASA, debt service and other allocations included.

Case 2: Halliburton Delivers Half Full Cartons to the Pentagon's "Swing Shift"

Arrigo refers to the Pentagon's Receiving Department "swing shift" personnel. They alone are on the take so other shifts are shut out and can't report it. As a CIA insider, she checked and found damning evidence - about "the military (not) getting supplies to the troops on time." She also learned that Halliburton has its "Representative to the CIA," and one at the Pentagon as well. Both get federal salaries but neither was "hired by CIA or the military through their personnel departments. Neither had done military training or trained at (CIA's) 'Farm' as a spy." Arrigo was disturbed and with good reason when orders from the top said back off.

It got worse. Arrigo worked at CIA for over 30 years and reported directly to Tenet. But she wasn't prepared for what she found - a new section at the Agency without her knowledge. It employed 40 people, all working for Halliburton "while being paid by the US taxpayer as if they were CIA." It was secret. No files were on them. They were never interviewed, never vetted, and she concluded: "CIA had a back door in its security to let Halliburton put anyone they wanted in (its) hallways. It was an outrageous (breach) of US National Security," and in a post-9/11 "war on terrorism" climate.

She was shocked and told Tenet. His reply: "Yes, I know." Head of CIA building security also knew. Arrigo asked what he'd do about it. His answer: "Keep my mouth shut so I can stay alive and I suggest you do the same." She asked if he, CIA or Halliburton would kill her if she talked. He didn't think so. Would national security firm CACI do it because it's affiliated with Halliburton and also has a CIA back door for its personnel at the Agency.

Arrigo dug deeper. She got inside Halliburton's area and asked questions. Why was the company shipping half the contracted for amounts and shortchanging the troops and taxpayers. It was no different for war zones. Halliburton "set up the same corrupt system of swing shift receivers (for) at least 3 continents. They received the cartons and signed (off) that the goods were all received properly. Then the shortages later were chalked up to thefts or war damage, etc."

Arrigo again informed Tenet. His answer: "This is nothing new," then added: "Have a report about it on my desk before Christmas (2001)." It got worse. Arrigo told Tenet he's responsible for "correct(ing) Halliburton's short-shipping and its invasion of the CIA." He said he couldn't because the White House tied his hands. Call Congress, Arrigo said. DCI "should be a man of courage." Tenet ignored her, so Arrigo faxed documents revealing Halliburton fraud to GAO - omitting national security secrets. One of them crowed about the scheme's profitability, and having high-level officials involved made it foolproof.

It was clever and even more devious than Arrigo imagined. Halliburton uses each shortage complaint as a new order. "In that way (it) never (loses) by having to make good for (what's) missing," and (it gets) paid double for the same merchandise.

Arrigo knew too much, took risks to learn it, and what happened next is shocking. Halliburton's "CIA Representative" confronted her, tore out her phone, ransacked her office, removed every shred of paper, and hauled her off bodily "to a prison cell" inside its basement offices. She was intimidated and threatened. Thought she might be killed. She survived, but the message was clear. She complained to Tenet. Showed him her bruises. He responded dismissively: "There, there, everything will be all right in the morning."

GAO still has Arrigo's files. It began investigating but stopped. She thinks that Congress can resume it and asked Waxman to do it. That's where things now stand.

Case 3: The White House Conspiracy to Cook the Books - Halliburton, Carlyle and CIA

In 2002, Arrigo tried a new tact - ingratiating herself with "Halliburton's Man" and using it to her advantage. She offered cooperation for access to his space and make him think she was on his side. It worked, went on for four and one-half months through late May, and it paid off - with plenty of insider knowledge "about Halliburton and how it works." Enough to fill a book, she says, but her account sticks to highlights.

First off, it's pure myth that Dick Cheney stopped running the company. "He called in orders to the man I worked for almost every day and sometimes two or more times a day. He remained (Halliburton's) functional head in all but name. No one....had the power to override his orders." Second, Cheney never divested himself of Halliburton profits. "He merely hid how (he got them) through a series of shell companies."

One of Arrigo's jobs was to liaison between Halliburton and CIA's "creative accounting departments." In other words, their co-conspiratorial treasury looting efforts, and Arrigo got insider access to it. Her advanced math and computer software training qualified her. In a few months, she became expert in how CIA and Halliburton hid their "financial illegalities."

She explained - "Computers are good ways to fool most people because (they don't) look inside of them." They can be programmed "to print out one set of books for regulators, another for Defense Contractors, another for the Pentagon, another for the taxpayer," and so forth. It's simple. Decide what you want, and machines will create it in any desired form. The trick is doing it expertly, most criminals can't, so they need professionals to do it for them. It means crimes are never secret, and many computer experts know about them. CIA has always been tainted, kept it secret since inception, so far has been untouchable, but remains vulnerable to exposure by people of conscience like Arrigo.

She explained: Halliburton has eight software programmers at CIA. Its home office has many more. She was on conference calls with 60 of them on ways to conceal illegalities and assure none of it leaks out. The company has less expertise than CIA so the Agency took charge to make the two systems compatible. It took several years and over 100 programmers. They came, left for other jobs, and took insider knowledge with them. It risks more leaks about Halliburton, other contractors, CIA, the Pentagon, high-ups in government, and the Basel-based Bank of International Settlements for its part in corruption.

Many investigations are ongoing, but huge pressure is exerted to quash them. It's feared leaks may unravel the whole scheme - a vast corruption web involving countless numbers of contractors, related companies, and many high level government and Pentagon insiders. Cover-up software hides it. Taxpayers fund it. Amounts keep getting greater, and they're up to unimaginable levels.

Arrigo explained the system. Suppose Halliburton sold product A in 100 Lot Sizes, in Quantity X at Price Y to the Pentagon on a given date. Most civilian invoices disclose this. Pentagon ones don't so contractors can cheat and Pentagon brass profit. Missing information conceals whether all merchandise was delivered as nothing indicates quantities shipped. Further, repackaging also hides proper amounts. Omitting the price alone conceals whether a shipment was shorted, but CIA is more clever than that. It experimented with "tested receivers at some of its front companies" to learn how best to deceive them. What works best is "shifting prices around like random noise" - one day this cost, another a different one, and so forth.

One company used a "gross overcharge method" that looked suspicious. It got receivers to discover the real price, and that defeated CIA's scheme. When it works, it cooks the books, and no one's the wiser. Ledger entries are inflated, undercut, omitted, added, or varied in amounts of similar transactions. Like a "professional crime institution," CIA is expert at falsifying books so no one catches on. How? By random price variations to keep auditors off balance and unable to discover corruption patterns.

Another example:

CIA varies its front company prices monthly. Suppose Halliburton made a purchase "when it (used) a cost inflation idea of cheating. Halliburton (has) an incentive to inflate the cost of its purchases (to) justify (its) high (price) to the military." So as standard practice it uses CIA's highest price and claims that amount for its cost.

But comparing two sets of books reveals the scheme. So methodology became more sophisticated to conceal it. Halliburton takes CIA prices and doubles them on its books. It then claims the Agency recorded half the charge "accidently," says its front company promised a 50% discount, but never delivered. CIA looks bad, and it balked. No matter. Halliburton still does it, but CIA has "lots of fronts with lots of customers and worse problems (to hide) than merely jacking up prices. Some fronts (are) fictitious and (make) no products." Others have real customers plus fake ones to launder money. CIA tries to "make (their) crimes 'undetectable.' " Halliburton hopes to "sneak by" until caught, then find a way to weasel out of it with minimal damage or cost.

Case 4: Halliburton's Rigged Back Door Accounting Computer at the Pentagon

In early 2002, GAO got damning evidence: that Halliburton overbills and short-ships - deliberate fraudulent acts as standard company practice, confident it can get away with it, and most often it does.

GAO has the goods to expose it from Halliburton and Pentagon invoices. They reveal a problem. They don't match, are grossly inflated, and payments exceed amounts billed - by about 35%. Arrigo met with GAO and compared notes. Halliburton has similar Pentagon and CIA-paid staff, and George Bush approved it in a secret Executive Order Arrigo has for proof. She gave it to GAO plus other documents showing national security is compromised and taxpayers cheated - hugely.

One document lists Halliburton's CIA and Pentagon staff, what little official records discloses about them, their secret office locations, and information on their private security staff. Arrigo discovered that Halliburton's top CIA man served time for felony fraud. Another at Pentagon was convicted as well - for stealing Army vehicles, then profiteering by transshipping them overseas.

Dick Cheney knew, blocked background checks to conceal it, but Arrigo found out and about the Pentagon fraud that followed. She has a handwritten Cheney memo instructing his man "to make sure that the Pentagon pays us all that it owes us and then some." CIA's forgery department verified the writing is Cheney's.

Arrigo also has a letter from Halliburton's Pentagon man to his CIA counterpart, and it's damning. He brags how he's "getting more than we bargained for (from) the Pentagon" and suggested they get together to compare notes. They did and Arrigo taped it. The evidence once more is damning - about how easy it is to scam the system; befriend accounting personnel; install company programmers; check bills supposedly behind in payments; install a special software code for higher amounts; and do all of the above at Pentagon and CIA.

Arrigo informed George Tenet so he'd stop "Halliburton from ripping off the American taxpayer via the CIA and Pentagon." Tenet hardly blinked and responded casually: "Well, you certainly have done a thorough job as usual." He then offered to inform the White House to "correct the problem." Arrigo did herself, GAO as well, and later learned that the Bush administration (likely Dick Cheney) blocked an investigation.

This article covers four of Arrigo's 12 cases. Their evidence is damning and shows systemic contractor, government, CIA and Pentagon fraud involving enormous amounts of money. One or more articles will follow if more material can be obtained. It's not what Pentagon and CIA want outed so getting it is never simple and revealing it not without risks.

Stephen Lendman is a Research Associate of the Centre for Research on Globalization. He lives in Chicago and can be reached at lendmanstephen@sbcgl
obal.net.

Sorry, correct spelling: Dennis Kucinich.

Since posting it, a contact of mine now says don`t trust all of that long article about Pentagon corruption. So read with a salt mine handy.

Last comment seems to have been deleted. Try again!: A contact of mine has said not to trust the veracity of the Counterpunch article above.