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Brighton restaurant has reindeer on menu

Matilda Murback, head chef of Northern Lights, with a plate of the reindeer dish. Matilda Murback, head chef of Northern Lights, with a plate of the reindeer dish.

A restaurant has provoked anger from animal rights campaigners for serving reindeer as part of its Christmas menu.

The delicacy has been put on the menu at Northern Lights in Little East Street, Brighton.

The Scandinavian restaurant, which opened in the summer, is serving sauteed reindeer to its customers for £8.90 a dish.

Meat from the animal – made famous by the Rudolph The Red Nosed Reindeer Christmas song – is ordered direct from Lapland.

Pauliina Talvensaari, who owns the restaurant with her husband Manu Leppanen, said: “My family are from Lapland and have raised reindeer for years.

They send it direct to us.

“We were a bit hesitant to put it on the menu in England but we have a lot of Scandinavian customers and they have been asking for reindeer.

“It has been going down really well. The meat is very low fat and tastes quite gamey but it’s very distinctive.

“We appreciate it is a bit sensitive because of their link with Santa but it is one of the most ethical meats around because reindeer are allowed to roam free.”

Until eight years ago, few people outside of Lapland had had the chance to taste reindeer soup, reindeer calf kebab or roast reindeer with lingonberries, all traditional dishes of the Sami people.

But things are changing. Ikea is selling reindeer meat to the masses across Europe, with volumes going up each year.

But animal rights campaigners have hit out at the trade.

Denise Friend, of Brighton Animal Action, said: “I just don’t understand what sort of person would eat reindeer – especially at Christmas. Surely there is enough meat on the market without looking for more.

“Reindeer meat is obviously imported too so it is not exactly environmentally friendly. It’s an outrage.”

Justin Kerswell, campaigns manager for vegetarian group Viva!, said: “We are very concerned about the exploitation of wild animals for meat.

“More than 70% of reindeer slaughtered for meat are calves that have grazed during the summer, which means they never even get to see snow.”

However, as more and more people develop a taste for exotic meats, some say demand for reindeer steaks and sausages is only likely to go up.

Walter Murray, director of Scotland-based Kezie Foods, which supplies the exotic meat in the UK, said: “A lot of people are taking reindeer roasts at this time of year.

“We’ve been doing it for about four or five years but it’s growing year on year and this is the busiest we’ve been with it.

“Different things come in and out of fashion but overall, exotic meats are going up and up.”

Would you eat reindeer at Christmas or would the thought of Rudolph put you off? Tell us what you think below.

Comments(102)

Pontop Pike says...
10:19am Tue 23 Dec 08

So whats new?

The Bridge Inn in Stapleton North Yorks also serves Reindeer and other dishes including Ostrich medalions, horse meat and even alligator.

All very nicely done and served in wonderfull surroundings -- so i`ve been told!

Redbeard says...
10:24am Tue 23 Dec 08

It's just an animal..yum yum. What's the big deal...stoopid veggies, plants have feeling too. I support PETA, People Eating Tasty Animals.

Dufus says...
10:24am Tue 23 Dec 08

Yes, I think I would give it a try, why not? Its something different!

I am not a vegetarian!

cheezburger says...
10:26am Tue 23 Dec 08

Redbeard wrote:
It's just an animal..yum yum. What's the big deal...stoopid veggies, plants have feeling too. I support PETA, People Eating Tasty Animals.
Moron. With an intellect like that you have to wonder about evolution.

Ronald says...
10:42am Tue 23 Dec 08

It's venison plonkers. What's the problem?

poppy caldwell says...
10:50am Tue 23 Dec 08

I ate reindeer once in Finland. It's actually very nice, but a bit tough if you cook it incorrectly. By the way where has Miles Godfrey gone? Him and the quirky stories was the only reason I ever picked up the argus.
Poppy

tinkywinky says...
10:50am Tue 23 Dec 08

Cats and dogs are also traditional dishes to many cultures. Will be seeing puss in soup and rover burgers in the future.

RickH says...
10:55am Tue 23 Dec 08

tinkywinky wrote:
Cats and dogs are also traditional dishes to many cultures. Will be seeing puss in soup and rover burgers in the future.
Hot dogs, maybe?

quedula says...
10:56am Tue 23 Dec 08

Homo sapiens has a positive duty to eat meat in sustainable quantities to help preserve diversity in the natural world.

SimonS says...
10:57am Tue 23 Dec 08

I'm a veggie but see no problem with this. If people want to eat meat they can. And what's the difference between eating Reindeer and Lamb? Reindeer is hardly on the verge of extinction.

getreal says...
11:14am Tue 23 Dec 08

Usual rubbish from the lefty idiots with nothing better to do

Nick Brighton says...
11:22am Tue 23 Dec 08

They've been eating it in Scandinavia forever. As long as it's sustainably managed, there's not a problem. Though I do think the 'food miles' has to be considered.

Tye says...
11:31am Tue 23 Dec 08

Its the hypocrisy of the meat eaters - bambi look pretty and sweet and YET we eat millions of chickens that are pumped full of drugs, antibiotics and so much growth hormones they grow so quickly their lega cannot stand their weight and when they fall on the ground get burnt by their urine
Not forgetting factory chickens are now high in fat thanks to thee way they are "harvested"
Happy Xmas :(

Tye says...
11:33am Tue 23 Dec 08

oooops forgot to mention you can get bambi and ostrich in larger Tescos but I guess the Argus are scared of the "big guys"

Osama bin there says...
11:34am Tue 23 Dec 08

SimonS wrote:
I'm a veggie but see no problem with this. If people want to eat meat they can. And what's the difference between eating Reindeer and Lamb? Reindeer is hardly on the verge of extinction.
The voice of reason. If you go to Norway you see huge herds of them in the countryside. Do you think they are there to make the place look pretty?
As someone else said - it's just venison. I don't see anyone (apart from total nutters) trying to stop anyone eating it.
It's very nice actually, and low in fat and cholestorol, so healthy too.
Bah humbug!

CornishSeagull says...
12:06pm Tue 23 Dec 08

If animals weren't meant to be eaten, why are they made out of meat?

Conor says...
12:41pm Tue 23 Dec 08

There was once a great czar in Russia named Rudolph the Red.
He stood looking out the windows of is palace one day while his wife sat nearby knitting. He turned to her and said, "Look my dear, it has begun to rain!" Without even looking up from her knitting she replied, "It's too cold to rain. It
must be sleeting." The Czar shook his head and said, "I am the Czar of all the Russias, and Rudolph the Red knows rain, dear!"

Redbeard says...
12:41pm Tue 23 Dec 08

cheezburger wrote:
Redbeard wrote: It's just an animal..yum yum. What's the big deal...stoopid veggies, plants have feeling too. I support PETA, People Eating Tasty Animals.
Moron. With an intellect like that you have to wonder about evolution.
Err...what's your problem???

tim e says...
12:53pm Tue 23 Dec 08

Outrage from animal rights heros, what all 2 of them. What a waste of time, a non story as usual.

cheezburger says...
12:58pm Tue 23 Dec 08

My problem is meat eaters. And morons like you who think they are funny. Hurry up and choke on it.

GreenGrocer says...
1:04pm Tue 23 Dec 08

It's a Scandinavian restaurant serving traditional dishes, if animal rights people don't like it, don't flippin eat there! I suppose we shouldn't eat cows, sheep, pigs, chickens either yet I don't see them outside restaurants & supermarkets with placards... I've had reindeer in Finland and it's not bad at all.

mickeyfinn says...
1:07pm Tue 23 Dec 08

poppy caldwell wrote:
I ate reindeer once in Finland. It's actually very nice, but a bit tough if you cook it incorrectly. By the way where has Miles Godfrey gone? Him and the quirky stories was the only reason I ever picked up the argus. Poppy
Miles Godfrey has gone off travelling

Wivvy Dave says...
1:20pm Tue 23 Dec 08

As a veggie I eat beef as long as the cow has only eaten grass!

(Insert key wind up and wait for reaction!)

salty_pete says...
1:31pm Tue 23 Dec 08

I've eaten reindeer a number of times, and very nice it is too. But why is it we only see "politicised" veggies complaining and not the cultural veggies eg. Hindus. Is it because they "live and live" and don't have the facist tendencies of the various animal rights movements?

Gabbafella says...
1:33pm Tue 23 Dec 08

No different from eating any other kind of animal, if veggies ate a little more meat and had a better diet I doubt they would be so angry all the time!
I would eat pretty much any animal if it was put in front of me. . .I've always wondered what human tastes like? I would eat your liver with some fava beans and a nice chianti

not your average british chav says...
1:38pm Tue 23 Dec 08

Isn't reindeer meat much more natural and organic choice than over processed cow meat and drugged up chickens you guys mostly eat in UK ?

Osama bin there says...
1:40pm Tue 23 Dec 08

salty_pete wrote:
I've eaten reindeer a number of times, and very nice it is too. But why is it we only see "politicised" veggies complaining and not the cultural veggies eg. Hindus. Is it because they "live and live" and don't have the facist tendencies of the various animal rights movements?
Yes

---and mr cheezburger. What problems do meat eaters cause you, exactly? I'd be thrilled to know.

Also, why have a sign-on that indicates a low quality MEAT product, if you are so anti-meat eating? Strange.

Acheron says...
1:49pm Tue 23 Dec 08

I had goat a while back from a West Indian take-away in London. Was lovely and a traditional meal over there. I suppose I'm in the wrong for that as well!.

Lets be honest, the real reason for this story is that the militant veggie brigade know that they wouldn't get in the press if they were going on about turkeys.

cheezburger says...
2:04pm Tue 23 Dec 08

Osama bin there wrote:
salty_pete wrote: I've eaten reindeer a number of times, and very nice it is too. But why is it we only see "politicised" veggies complaining and not the cultural veggies eg. Hindus. Is it because they "live and live" and don't have the facist tendencies of the various animal rights movements?
Yes ---and mr cheezburger. What problems do meat eaters cause you, exactly? I'd be thrilled to know. Also, why have a sign-on that indicates a low quality MEAT product, if you are so anti-meat eating? Strange.
Deforestation for one, poor health for the masses another. And thats not even touching on the cruelty aspects. And the name refers to a lolcats site.

Osama bin there says...
2:14pm Tue 23 Dec 08

cheezburger wrote:
Osama bin there wrote:
salty_pete wrote: I've eaten reindeer a number of times, and very nice it is too. But why is it we only see "politicised" veggies complaining and not the cultural veggies eg. Hindus. Is it because they "live and live" and don't have the facist tendencies of the various animal rights movements?
Yes ---and mr cheezburger. What problems do meat eaters cause you, exactly? I'd be thrilled to know. Also, why have a sign-on that indicates a low quality MEAT product, if you are so anti-meat eating? Strange.
Deforestation for one, poor health for the masses another. And thats not even touching on the cruelty aspects. And the name refers to a lolcats site.
No deforestation from reindeer I think you'll find. Like sheep, they live outdoors, are genuinely free range and live off what they forage.
Also one of the healthiest meats you can eat. The only element of cruelty is the fact that they have to be slaughtered to end up on someone's plate.
Now, if you are talking about s**t burgers and factory farmed non free range chickens, etc, I have some agreement with you, and for that reason I don't eat either.

cheezburger says...
2:30pm Tue 23 Dec 08

You asked me about my problem with meat eating, not reindeer. If all meat was like reindeer, i.e. free range, not pumped full of drugs etc then i might have a different viewpoint. But as most meat is mass produced with appaling conditions, force fed growth drugs etc etc then that is why i find it disgusting.

Gabbafella says...
2:38pm Tue 23 Dec 08

Yeah but however it is treated it still tastes goooooood!!!

Animals will continue to be killed for food, all the time they are I will continue to eat the meat. Waste not want not

Redbeard says...
2:45pm Tue 23 Dec 08

cheezburger wrote:
My problem is meat eaters. And morons like you who think they are funny. Hurry up and choke on it.
Easy tiger...or tiger lily. I only eat free range and usually organic meat so calm down. I don't agree with people just eating veg but you don't here me moaning at you.Technically plants are living entities too so PAH. Each to their own hey. And I am funny...

cheezburger says...
2:48pm Tue 23 Dec 08

Yes you are funny but not in a good way, hope you have enough meds for the festive period.

Redbeard says...
3:00pm Tue 23 Dec 08

cheezburger wrote:
Yes you are funny but not in a good way, hope you have enough meds for the festive period.
I did not get personal so don’t know why you need to, I can't be bothered arguing with you, life’s too short. You want to be all miserable and dark that’s up to you, maybe if you ate properly you could cheer up a bit. PS, enjoy your nut roast. Now that's funny...come on it has to be a bit.

Gabbafella says...
3:07pm Tue 23 Dec 08

I think cheezburger is suffering from a severe case of meat deficiency, chill out there swampy!

Redbeard, you are kinda funny by the way :-)

Redbeard says...
3:13pm Tue 23 Dec 08

Gabbafella wrote:
I think cheezburger is suffering from a severe case of meat deficiency, chill out there swampy! Redbeard, you are kinda funny by the way :-)
Thank you, nice to be appreciated, have a nice xmas.

Osama bin there says...
3:19pm Tue 23 Dec 08

cheezburger wrote:
You asked me about my problem with meat eating, not reindeer. If all meat was like reindeer, i.e. free range, not pumped full of drugs etc then i might have a different viewpoint. But as most meat is mass produced with appaling conditions, force fed growth drugs etc etc then that is why i find it disgusting.
'Most meat is mass produced'. Yes, of course, just by the fact that it has to feed most of the population, it has to be. But there is a choice, and it's not always down to cost.
I'm all for educating people as to why they should choose organic and free range. One of the best reasons of all is because it tastes better! It's always a case of 'what you put in, is what you'll get out'. Feed an animal crap, and keep it in appalling conditions, and you'll end up with something with no flavour and degraded food value as well. Never mind the unnecessary cruelty.
But these days it only costs a tiny bit more to buy organic and free range, so there really isn't much excuse for most people, except perhaps the very poorest.
Luckily people are beginning to realise this simple fact, which is why the cost of organic has come right down, and will come down even further the more it is supported by the public at large.
I have tried giving up meat, but I missed it too much. So that's my choice. But I'm not telling you to not be a vegetarian, so I think you must be more tolerant of others who prefer to eat meat.
A happy Christmas to you.

rudolfeater says...
3:46pm Tue 23 Dec 08

Good luck to The Scandinavian restaurant.
I have eaten reindeer several times when working in Norway. In fact my job as an engineer takes me all over the world where I work and eat with local engineers.
During my travels I have eaten: Alpaca, Camel, Cat, Chicken, Cow, Dog, Guinea-pig, Horse, Jelly fish, Llama, Ostrich, Pig, Pigeon, Rabbit, Reindeer, Shark, Sheep, Snake, Sparrow, Wild boar.

Get a life, different countries eat different things. What next, no eating chicken and bunny rabbits at Easter....

NoWaySeriously says...
3:57pm Tue 23 Dec 08

cheezburger wrote:
Redbeard wrote:
It's just an animal..yum yum. What's the big deal...stoopid veggies, plants have feeling too. I support PETA, People Eating Tasty Animals.
Moron. With an intellect like that you have to wonder about evolution.
hippie.

whats the difference between a cow and a reindeer? nothing. just another animal on the menu.

grow up.

cheezburger says...
4:15pm Tue 23 Dec 08

Redbeard wrote:
cheezburger wrote: Yes you are funny but not in a good way, hope you have enough meds for the festive period.
I did not get personal so don’t know why you need to, I can't be bothered arguing with you, life’s too short. You want to be all miserable and dark that’s up to you, maybe if you ate properly you could cheer up a bit. PS, enjoy your nut roast. Now that's funny...come on it has to be a bit.
Life's too short? Your's probably will be. No doubt you'll have clogged up arteries and heart disease before long as a result of your diet. But if you want to eat meat that's your funeral ;)

cheezburger says...
4:16pm Tue 23 Dec 08

Incidentally, i couldn't get a nut roast as they are sold out everywhere.

Moon Pig says...
4:25pm Tue 23 Dec 08

The irony is, that by highlighting this in the press, they'll probably get more people visiting to try it lol.
I'll not have any animal rights protesters telling me what I can or cannot eat, thankyou very much. It's no different to eating any other type of meat.
I totally agree that you should buy organic, free range etc whereever possible but seriously... does it MATTER which animal it is... as long as it's tasty ;)

Redbeard says...
4:34pm Tue 23 Dec 08

cheezburger wrote:
Redbeard wrote:
cheezburger wrote: Yes you are funny but not in a good way, hope you have enough meds for the festive period.
I did not get personal so don’t know why you need to, I can't be bothered arguing with you, life’s too short. You want to be all miserable and dark that’s up to you, maybe if you ate properly you could cheer up a bit. PS, enjoy your nut roast. Now that's funny...come on it has to be a bit.
Life's too short? Your's probably will be. No doubt you'll have clogged up arteries and heart disease before long as a result of your diet. But if you want to eat meat that's your funeral ;)
Again, not very nice...I am healthy, I don't smoke, I drink occasionally and exercise regularly, I eat maybe a few portions of meat a week and so far so good. If we never ate meat we would never have evolved, I would like to keep evolving so I continue to put my canine teeth to the use they evolved for. Our bodies can process meat so I am just following nature's course. If you don't want it fine, more for me.

Moon Pig says...
4:43pm Tue 23 Dec 08

Oh, Cheezburger.... I was only reading what the article said..
A restaurant has provoked anger from animal rights campaigners for serving reindeer as part of its Christmas menu.


What's the difference between animal rights and animal welfare then? Please, do educate us, and perhaps also the Argus as they clearly are not able to differentiate either?

You need to take a chill pill - you obviously cannot see when people are trying to wind you up. I would argue that that makes you a bit of a knob, but I'm not here to judge or attack people personally ;)

If you have a point to make, which clearly you do, you would be better off doing it in a civil manner so that people might actually listen to anything you're saying, instead of laughing at you getting so angry and petty... It sounds like this is something that is close to your heart, and I'm all for people sticking up for what they believe in... but you will have to accept that other people will have opinions you can't change..

And no, I don't mind which animal I eat as long as it tastes nice... why would I eat something that didn't taste nice?! lol.

cheezburger says...
4:44pm Tue 23 Dec 08

Redbeard wrote:
cheezburger wrote:
Redbeard wrote:
cheezburger wrote: Yes you are funny but not in a good way, hope you have enough meds for the festive period.
I did not get personal so don’t know why you need to, I can't be bothered arguing with you, life’s too short. You want to be all miserable and dark that’s up to you, maybe if you ate properly you could cheer up a bit. PS, enjoy your nut roast. Now that's funny...come on it has to be a bit.
Life's too short? Your's probably will be. No doubt you'll have clogged up arteries and heart disease before long as a result of your diet. But if you want to eat meat that's your funeral ;)
Again, not very nice...I am healthy, I don't smoke, I drink occasionally and exercise regularly, I eat maybe a few portions of meat a week and so far so good. If we never ate meat we would never have evolved, I would like to keep evolving so I continue to put my canine teeth to the use they evolved for. Our bodies can process meat so I am just following nature's course. If you don't want it fine, more for me.
You dont know much about evolution clearly. We have molars at the side which are for grinding vegetables. If we we're 'meant' to eat meat we would have much bigger incisors for a starts. our stomachs can't cope well with meat, with it laying in our gut for a day or more. And saying if we never ate meat we wouldnt have evolved is just laughable. Science is not on your side.

cheezburger says...
4:53pm Tue 23 Dec 08

Moon Pig wrote:
Oh, Cheezburger.... I was only reading what the article said..
A restaurant has provoked anger from animal rights campaigners for serving reindeer as part of its Christmas menu.
What's the difference between animal rights and animal welfare then? Please, do educate us, and perhaps also the Argus as they clearly are not able to differentiate either? You need to take a chill pill - you obviously cannot see when people are trying to wind you up. I would argue that that makes you a bit of a knob, but I'm not here to judge or attack people personally ;) If you have a point to make, which clearly you do, you would be better off doing it in a civil manner so that people might actually listen to anything you're saying, instead of laughing at you getting so angry and petty... It sounds like this is something that is close to your heart, and I'm all for people sticking up for what they believe in... but you will have to accept that other people will have opinions you can't change.. And no, I don't mind which animal I eat as long as it tastes nice... why would I eat something that didn't taste nice?! lol.
Animal welfare involves the animal being treated as humanely as possible during its life. I.E free range instead of battery farms. Quick death instead of needlessly long etc etc. Isnt it obvious?

And if you thought the slaughter of millions upon millions of animals was wrong wouldnt you speak out too?

And i think its the moronic 'i'll eat any animal' lot that look stupid, not me.

And why should i accept other peoples opinions if it doesnt agree with mine? No one on these forums ever has before ;)

Osama bin there says...
5:00pm Tue 23 Dec 08

"Natural world? Just cos we can eat meat doesnt mean we should."

But it doesn't mean we shouldn't, either. That's just your opinion.

There's nothing more annoying than when you are trying to organise a dinner party, and you find one of the people coming is a vegetarian! But that's your choice, and if you were coming to my house, I would accommodate you.
Interestingly, no vegetarian has ever offered me a meat or fish substitute when I have been invited to dinner with them!

Moon Pig says...
5:01pm Tue 23 Dec 08

cheezburger wrote:
Moon Pig wrote: Oh, Cheezburger.... I was only reading what the article said..
A restaurant has provoked anger from animal rights campaigners for serving reindeer as part of its Christmas menu.
What's the difference between animal rights and animal welfare then? Please, do educate us, and perhaps also the Argus as they clearly are not able to differentiate either? You need to take a chill pill - you obviously cannot see when people are trying to wind you up. I would argue that that makes you a bit of a knob, but I'm not here to judge or attack people personally ;) If you have a point to make, which clearly you do, you would be better off doing it in a civil manner so that people might actually listen to anything you're saying, instead of laughing at you getting so angry and petty... It sounds like this is something that is close to your heart, and I'm all for people sticking up for what they believe in... but you will have to accept that other people will have opinions you can't change.. And no, I don't mind which animal I eat as long as it tastes nice... why would I eat something that didn't taste nice?! lol.
Animal welfare involves the animal being treated as humanely as possible during its life. I.E free range instead of battery farms. Quick death instead of needlessly long etc etc. Isnt it obvious? And if you thought the slaughter of millions upon millions of animals was wrong wouldnt you speak out too? And i think its the moronic 'i'll eat any animal' lot that look stupid, not me. And why should i accept other peoples opinions if it doesnt agree with mine? No one on these forums ever has before ;)
*sigh* If it was obvious, I wouldn't have asked. As it happens, I just googled it and found a website which explains it, so consider that one more person informed lol.

I'm not saying don't speak out - I support anyone who has the guts to stand up and support what they believe in, whether I believe in that same cause or not. I didn't say you have to accept other people's opinions... but you do need to accept their right to have them, whether you agree with them or not.

Perhaps we do look moronic to you, but you also look pretty stupid to me so I guess that's a win-win situation lol.

Osama bin there says...
5:07pm Tue 23 Dec 08

"Its not 'just' food is it. Its about lives. It is not nothing."

That's only if your premise is that an animal's life is equal to a human one. I just don't agree. But then I don't agree with needless cruelty in the animal food industry either.
And yes, I must be one of the stupid ones, because I have and would try different animals and fish as I have travelled around the world. But I have also tried strange veg as well. It's all part of life's rich experience!

SimonS says...
5:17pm Tue 23 Dec 08

Can I just say not all vegetarians are as rude, agressive and argumentative as cheezburger.

If you want to eat meat, do so, I'm not going to judge you. I don't want to eat meat, so I won't. It really is as simple as that IMHO.

And I still haven't worked out the difference between Reindeer and any other meet in terms of causing offence. If anyone (including the Argus) does, let me know.

krissie says...
5:34pm Tue 23 Dec 08

Well Done and Good Luck to Northern Lights! You should try to introduse elk/moose as well.I don't what people are so hung up about,as these animals are from from the wilderness, totally organic and freerange. You eat wildfowl,rabbit etc., so what's the problem?

LLUK80 says...
5:51pm Tue 23 Dec 08

Aww personally I couldnt eat a raindeer. It does upset me a little as more and more animals become 'acceptable' to eat, and as restaurants rally to become more experimental with what they serve, how long will it be before you see dogs and cats ect on British menus? How far do we really go with it?

cheezburger says...
5:55pm Tue 23 Dec 08

SimonS wrote:
Can I just say not all vegetarians are as rude, agressive and argumentative as cheezburger. If you want to eat meat, do so, I'm not going to judge you. I don't want to eat meat, so I won't. It really is as simple as that IMHO. And I still haven't worked out the difference between Reindeer and any other meet in terms of causing offence. If anyone (including the Argus) does, let me know.
Simple? If only the animals had a voice, im sure they wouldnt see it as simple.

OP8 says...
6:09pm Tue 23 Dec 08

Tofu causes more deforestation nowadays anyway

GreenGrocer says...
6:13pm Tue 23 Dec 08

LLUK80 wrote:
Aww personally I couldnt eat a raindeer. It does upset me a little as more and more animals become 'acceptable' to eat, and as restaurants rally to become more experimental with what they serve, how long will it be before you see dogs and cats ect on British menus? How far do we really go with it?
reindeer (otherwise known as caribou) are not newly acceptable, they have been hunted by humans since mesolithic/neolithic ages.. Norway and Greenland have hunted them CONTINUOUSLY since the ICE AGE, they are still hunted in North America, the Arctic, the Sub Arcit, Inuits and have been domesticated since the Bronze/Iron age in many countries. Eating reindeer is nothing new, and just more rubbish by the Argus to drive up circulation at Xmas with a topical touchy feely awh poor bamby story which a lot of loony muppets will have fallen for.

GreenGrocer says...
6:52pm Tue 23 Dec 08

oh, for those in the know, humans have been eating "reindeer" since around 8000 BC, or around 10,000 years, so the Argus is about 100 centuries late with this article!

Guerrero says...
6:55pm Tue 23 Dec 08

Meat eating is the second biggest cause of cancer behind smoking.So the animals get their own back anyway.
Have a nice xmas tumour.Ho,ho,ho.

Jim BB says...
7:01pm Tue 23 Dec 08

But how will Santa be able to deliver presents if his transport's been eaten?

I wonder if the service has improved in the restaurant since we walked out when, after 20 mins, they still hadn't got round to serving us.

Osama bin there says...
7:12pm Tue 23 Dec 08

Guerrero wrote:
Meat eating is the second biggest cause of cancer behind smoking.So the animals get their own back anyway.
Have a nice xmas tumour.Ho,ho,ho.
That is complete nonsense.
The biggest cause of cancer is your genes - i.e. it's hereditary. There's nothing you can do about it.

It's people like you, with a LITTLE science, misquoting statistics to suit their own ends, that really get on my tits.

Give me cheezburger any day. At least he (or she) is passionate about what they think.

You are just a moron.

Why do you live in Alicante in Spain - the home of one of the most barbaric 'sports' in the western world? BULLFIGHTING. Are you doing anything about it, or just enjoying the expat life, surrounded by loads of other ex pat Brits?
Lovely.

Tye says...
7:48pm Tue 23 Dec 08

the chavy rubbish eating morons here do remind me of the stories writen by the author who wrote about lilliput - In the book that's never mentioned he suggested that the poor should breed /have loads of babies so that they could feed the rich
any volunteers? using the logic of the idiots here - killing and cooking them would resolve a lot of issues!

Freerangebeats says...
8:43pm Tue 23 Dec 08

The criticism of reindeer eating makes me laugh, firstly 'rudolph' is an invention of the coca-cola corporation so we can all feel very sad about that! Secondly reindeer are not wild animals, they are all farmed or herded (freerange) & finally about being 'slaughtered before they see the snow'... that may be the case for some but what is the difference between that and lamb? I love reindeer meat & have eaten it many times with my Finnish wife in Finland & in England at the Finnish church in London, at Northern Lights & at home. So good luck to Northern Lights & thank you for putting reindeer on the menu to give us all that little slice of scandinavia this christmas!

scoomer says...
8:56pm Tue 23 Dec 08

Oh good grief! Look, here's how it works: the restaurant send a press release to the Argus, hoping to get some free publicity for their lovely Christmas menu; a hack at the Argus 'phones a couple of dependable animal welfare campaigners to see if he can stir up a bit of a storm; the paper sticks the headline on all its billboards around town; the hack and his colleagues wander off to their local hostelry for yet another seasonal snifter; chaos ensues on the comments board...
Now stop bickering, ALL of you, or I'll tell Santa not to come!

scoomer says...
9:05pm Tue 23 Dec 08

Tye wrote:
the chavy rubbish eating morons here do remind me of the stories writen by the author who wrote about lilliput - In the book that's never mentioned he suggested that the poor should breed /have loads of babies so that they could feed the rich any volunteers? using the logic of the idiots here - killing and cooking them would resolve a lot of issues!
Erm, Tye, you're thinking of Swift's "A Modest Proposal" - it wasn't a book, it was a satirical essay, and he wrote it as an ironic attack on the middle-class English who kept coming up with stupid suggestions to solve the Anglo-Irish situation.
Maybe you should actually, y'know, READ it, as opposed to just vaguely recalling it as something you heard about from a bloke in a pub once.

MoreMikey says...
10:37pm Tue 23 Dec 08

Nice one, 'scoomer.

scoomer says...
11:04pm Tue 23 Dec 08

Cheers Mikey :-)

nice lady says...
12:54am Wed 24 Dec 08

we eat meat, we was meant to eat meat. what is the problem? apart from cheezburger!!!! i think its down to personal choice. i for one will totally enjoy my christmas dinner, a meat feast with the occasional veg thrown in!!!

arguschunks says...
7:51am Wed 24 Dec 08

ahhh, the refreshing sound of the ferocious carnivores rattling the bamboo and asparagus cage of the "forever angry" brown-rice-and-sanda
ls brigade. What people say about the population of Brighton is very true.

Ultimately, whether you eat meat or not, take a look at the actual picture of "reindeer" on the menu. It looks like a pile of mince on a blob of mashed potato with some cabbage and pickles. Hardly appetising stuff for the festive season. Would you order mince and mash if you went into a restaurant?

Anyway, alfafa-based whining aside, merry xmas to all and see you for the next argument.

RJF says...
10:10am Wed 24 Dec 08

We have both maulers and canines: aka we can eat both meat and plants.

"We have evolved" - have we really? By some of the conversation above I wonder.

I'd be interested to hear what cheezburger thinks about plants being living entities and having feelings? http://en.wikipedia.
org/wiki/Plant_perce
ption_(paranormal)

Why is it that people are keen to give their opinion as fact, but don’t back it up with real evidence? If you want to get insulting about someone's opinion, at least have the decency to educate us as to why we might be wrong. Come on people, we have the internet. Stop giving just your opinion and back it up with fact, that way we can have a sensible informed discussion, rather than a ‘hide behind my alias’ slagging match.

GreenGrocer says...
11:01am Wed 24 Dec 08

yum yum yum, Rudolph (coca cola invention anyway) in a bun... very tasty! mmmm, slap on that tomato ketchup, and a few lettuce leaves to keep the veggies happy.

Hope I get all my pressies now Rudolph has been minced and there are only 8 left to deliver them!!

Merry Xmas & a happy new yr to all!

IKDRF says...
12:19pm Wed 24 Dec 08

Osama bin there wrote:
Guerrero wrote: Meat eating is the second biggest cause of cancer behind smoking.So the animals get their own back anyway. Have a nice xmas tumour.Ho,ho,ho.
That is complete nonsense. The biggest cause of cancer is your genes - i.e. it's hereditary. There's nothing you can do about it. It's people like you, with a LITTLE science, misquoting statistics to suit their own ends, that really get on my tits. Give me cheezburger any day. At least he (or she) is passionate about what they think. You are just a moron. Why do you live in Alicante in Spain - the home of one of the most barbaric 'sports' in the western world? BULLFIGHTING. Are you doing anything about it, or just enjoying the expat life, surrounded by loads of other ex pat Brits? Lovely.
Before you describe people as Morons you may wish to consider as to wether your own assumptions are correct.
The biggest cause of cancer is not in your genes or hereditary.
In fact we now know that nearly 40% is connected to diet and lifestyle.
We are investigating further.
I work in Cancer research.

Chris_73 says...
1:18pm Wed 24 Dec 08

(I'm a Finn, so I apologise for possible errors in grammar and spelling)

This kind of nonsense is what puts people off from these animal rights groups.

First of all, reindeer live their lives in freedom. They are not fed artificial products, pumped full of hormones etc like your common cow.

They are a part of life cycle of the native people of Northern reaches of Europe, the Sami. The Sami and the reindeer can be compared to Native Americans and buffalos... before white men came and slaughtered the buffalos, of course.

Animal rights activists in countries like the UK have lost all touch with reality (there would be real problems to tackle even right there in Brighton region!), and this is a shame.

Chris_73 says...
1:49pm Wed 24 Dec 08

By the way, the article "Brighton restaurant has reindeer on menu" is currently referred to in the opening page of the internet edition of Helsingin Sanomat, the biggest quality broadsheet in the Nordic countries. It's about to be big news in Finland!

No offence to you English, but I'm afraid that at least a few hundred thousand Finns are having a bit of a laugh on you guys this Christmas ; -)

Chris_73 says...
2:14pm Wed 24 Dec 08

My third and last contribution to this discussion:

I'm sure that the reindeer live a happier life than the herds of free range cows roaming the streets of Brighton every weekend night, vomiting, shouting abuse etc.

Prancer says...
2:56pm Wed 24 Dec 08

Their definitely not ripping off their customers since it would probably cost more than 20 euros in a Finnish restaurant and for that price one would not get real reindeer but some imported similar tasting meat from central Europe.
For 9 pounds, at least with the current exchange rate, one gets todays lunch special in some workplace cafeteria, two burgers and cola in a burger place or two pizzas, not real food.

CatThe says...
3:00pm Wed 24 Dec 08

Greetings from Finland and pardon my English. :)

I second to Chris_73, he's right. In Finland even the most orthodox vegans and animal rights' defenders are of the opinion that IF they would eat meat, game (like reindeer meat) would be their choice.

Chris_73 has listed all the reasons for this opinion and as I know many Sami people who breed reindeers I can assure that I can't think of any other meat that would be "produced" as close to natural conditions than what reindeer is.

They wander freely in Lapland, no fences, no artificial fodder, no hormones, no putting them in tight cages, nothing. The animals are really important to their owners and I really don't mean this just business-wise. These Sami people have grown up among reindeers, they really respect these animals and take good care of them.

The same can't be said about chickens, broilers, pigs and cows that usually have to live very unhappy and unhealthy life. :(

I would hope that these people that claim to defend animals' rights would be a little bit better informed before making this kind of media attack. I'm sure, that to anyone who is willing, it is possible to go to Lapland and meet these people who breed reindeers, and they may even see the animals if they can be found in the woods.;)

And btw, reindeers really see snow and winter, like at the moment it's really "winter wonderland" weather in Lapland, and the owners also bring their animals extra hay if it's been a bad winter food-wise.:)

I understand that this was a great moment for this kind of publicity because of Christmas and Rudolph the Reindeer, but still I, as a Finn, really am confused if knowledge is at this level in these organisations.:(

CatThe says...
3:24pm Wed 24 Dec 08

I will add still one more thing (we Finns are not that quiet;)):

Referring to comment of Justin Kerswell who was quoted as follows:"We are very concerned about the exploitation of wild animals for meat."

The point is that reindeers are not wild, they are BRED but they can act and live like wild animals as they are kept free. So they are taken care of but can live like they would be autonomous.

So it's not like these Sami people are evil and kill innocent wild animals to be brought on your plates, but the animals are actually owned by someone which not many tourist or foreigner know about if they don't know how reindeers are bred and just happen to meet them during their Lapland bus tour when these stubborn animals are just standing in the middle of the road and you have to wait and wait and wait until they deign to move. :)

Salaneuvos says...
3:26pm Wed 24 Dec 08

Well, I don't fully agree with my fellow compatriot for what it comes to this matter.

As mentioned in the article, reindeer meat is ethical since reindeers have a good environment to live in, for the time being. But didn't cows live happily in the 19th century also? The problems occur in mass-production where competition lowers prices (good thing?), but simultaneously blows away principles in order for status quo.
My guess, good or not, would be the same for reindeer meat only if it were to become as widely consumed as cow meat. Nowadays, it is possible to get fresh reindeer meat at the break of winter. It is not as popular as it appears.

To some extent, environmental aspects seem to create a controversy between one another.
"Justin Kerswell, campaigns manager for vegetarian group Viva!, said: “We are very concerned about the exploitation of wild animals for meat.“"
Well to this veggiecomment, I'd like to ask, where should we get our meat then? If it's wrong to hunt down wild animals and it's wrong to breed them, where do we get meat at all? We are omnivores by nature.
Anyhow, reindeer's are not completely wild, since they are controlled, but on the other hand they roam free.

Vegetarian shouldn't be demeaned.. It's a free world, eh.
e.g. I cannot distinguish myself from others by being a vegetarian or using costy, organic meat, but I certainly respect those who do.

Cheerio, and have a nice Christmas.
p.s. sorry for the comma mistakes.


Chris_73 says...
3:37pm Wed 24 Dec 08

The pub chain Walkabout serves kangaroo and crocodile, and nowadays you can even get rattlesnake in the UK (quite commonly served in some parts of the US, this is used to be a famine dish of native Americans).

However, neither the kangaroo, crocodile or rattlesnake are considered delicacies, where as reindeer meet is Michelin-star restaurant stuff in the Nordic countries... and yet sold even in chippie -style fast food joints especially in northern Finland.

The point I'm trying to make is that this a traditional national dish and a famous culinary dish, not curiosity like "hey, it's cool to eat some rattlesnake", which, by the way, has no taste of all whatsoever.

Viva reindeer!

Lingonberry says...
4:23pm Wed 24 Dec 08

I'd like to comment on the claim that reindeer only get to live the summer before being slaughtered.

Most animals chosen for slaughter live a good six months, so yes, they do get to "see snow". Just as well, as the much-touted, roaming-free lifestyle can be tough. Reindeer typically lose 20-40% of their body weight during winter. They have to dig up the lichen they feed on under 3 feet of show. For this reason, many herders bring the animals extra feed during the winter.

Not to mention the periodic attacks by wolves the clueless EU is so keen to protect.

Sometimes the animals are corralled to make feeding them easier, but the feisty creatures do spend their life outdoors, not cooped up like so many domestic animals.

So, reindeer (not=caribou) is not only delicious but about as ethical as food gets. It is silly, prejudiced and provincial to wonder how anybody could eat reindeer! They're just cattle.

Unfortuately, reindeer can never become a popular solution as the numbers of reindeer cannot be increased indefinitely. There are limits as to how much grazing the natural pastures can take.

Sartooppe says...
4:25pm Wed 24 Dec 08

Wow... as this is not the April fools day but Christmas eve I must assume that Ms. Friend and Ms. Kerswell are for real.

As there arguments have been demolished here more than once, I see no reason to repeat what has been already said. However, I would like to raise a voice of concern. Have these persons ever come up with a thought, that they might be hurting actual persons and their families with what they are doing?

Should this article put the restaurant in question out of business for no good reason at all, who would be to blame?

Good people of Brighton, this is reason enough to visit the Northern Lights. I have to stress that I have nothing to do with the restaurant, just speaking from the heart here. Merry Christmas to you all!

Yours in reindeer
-Satraappi

CatThe says...
4:46pm Wed 24 Dec 08

"Salaneuvos", I don't disagree with you at all, so I think we were and are on the same page. :)

And as "Lingonberry" mentioned, I don't see either that reindeer would become as widely spread an animal and meat as cows or other "industrialized" animals, so that's why I dare to defend this issue here.

Of course nothing is ideal and we don't live in a perfect world, but I just felt that bringing this one up was a bit like killing a fly with a shotgun.

And I also totally agree with "Sartooppe" and wish, especially for Christmas' sake, that no-one gets hurt = the restaurant and its owners won't suffer from this! I don't have anything to do with them, either. ;)

Omnivore says...
4:53pm Wed 24 Dec 08

what a fuss over nothing new. People in England have been eating deer (urrh ... venison) throughout history - if they could afford to buy it or get to shoot it.

so whats the difference between our deer and reindeer? nothing much, except maybe the northerly species is more plentiful so lower cost; and they've got more roaming land and fresher air to breathe. If you're going to end up as dinner, better to be a lapland reindeer than almost anything else I reckon.

If you're a militant veggie, surely better to focus on the chipolotas, bacon and factory turkeys???

and Santa, you should eat more of your reindeer herd and dodge those mince pies - you're doing way too many carbs!


Sartooppe says...
5:50pm Wed 24 Dec 08

The aim of these militant veggie people is not, I'm afraid, more noble than to get noticed and to create a fuzz every now and then. We have these people in Finland as well, and generally they do more harm than good to their cause.

This is actually quite sad, as there sure are some real animal rights issues as well.

Well, this kind of sums it for me. Merry Christmas to you all (Ms. Friend and Ms. Kerswell included). The mentioned should, however, have the decency to make an apology to the Northern Lights restaurant.

Yannou Puroupoulos says...
6:09pm Wed 24 Dec 08

Like Sartoope wrote, these people just want attention. They should be fighing for the animals who really need help, like the blue whale, the biggest animal the world has ever seen.

Pekka says...
6:27pm Wed 24 Dec 08

Here in Finland reindeer is just another farm animal, like sheep, pig or cow. The main difference is the fact that for most part of their lifetime they live free and happy in forests. They are not pet animals, either. Not wild either, but semi-domestic.

If they lack fodder, their owner will try to give them hay etc.

I understand that there are people who are against eating animals, but then it's the same with sheep and pigs, duck and chicken. The reindeer are treated better, though.

How can you eat duck? Donald Duck and Rudolf the RND are just Disney figures, both of them.


Salaneuvos says...
8:26pm Wed 24 Dec 08

Sartooppe sums it up for us all :) Merry Christmas!

hopheadmike says...
8:49pm Wed 24 Dec 08

I hope those who have crossed-swords on this matter will not be upset that the article has been picked up by Finland's main paper, Helsingin Sanomat; it's on their website, hs.fi.

The article implies amusement that this is considered news!

Happy Christmas, All

pur says...
10:01pm Wed 24 Dec 08

The fact is, in Finland the hunters that hunt for hobby get more meat from the wild moose than the professional reindeer owners get from reindeer. So reindeer meat will always be something special. The difference is that all the reindeer is ear-marked and each animal has an owner - otherwise it lives very much like a wild animal. However, the stock is regulated and killing the animals is also a necessity, otherwise they die naturally of hunger as the land can not support more animals. In my opinion, both are superb meat and the animals live freely in the woods.

The moose must be hunted as it has no other natural enemies; the reindeer is the backbone of the traditional way of life in the north, and the only not so ethical thing is the flight over to Britain.

If opposition is, as it seems, based on Walt Disney, then the arguments against reindeer meat are really thin and based on almost complete lack of knowledge - the fact is that eating reindeer is as ethical as eating any meat can get. The price, however, is so high that I usually have it only for Christmas or while in Lappland.

Guerrero says...
11:09pm Wed 24 Dec 08

Eating Caribou is no different to eating dog,horse,cat,rat,os
trich,emu,koala,monk
ey,tiger.elephant,hu
man,turkey,chicken,p
rawn,cow,pig,sheep,g
oat,kangaroo,crocodi
le or whale.
Some might disgust you.Some might tittilate you,but they all have a life and deserve to be treated equally.They are all flesh and blood.
Paz.

timppa says...
11:29pm Wed 24 Dec 08

Oh my god... Where to start?

"Denise Friend, of Brighton Animal Action, said: “I just don’t understand what sort of person would eat reindeer""

- Answer: Like Sami people in Lapland have been doing for several centuries? Oh my, how could they do that? Gee, let's think...

“Reindeer meat is obviously imported too so it is not exactly environmentally friendly. It’s an outrage.”

- Answer: At least there is no worry about mad cow's decease as the Sami people are not feeding dead reindeers to other reindeers to maximize profits, as is the case with British beef.

"Justin Kerswell, campaigns manager for vegetarian group Viva!, said: “We are very concerned about the exploitation of wild animals for meat."

- Answer: So now reindeers are suddenly "wild animals"? No, they are herded by the Sami people, like they have been doing for centuries. Reindeers are just as much wild animals as e.g. British sheep.

And what would be wrong with eating wild animals anyway? That is the most natural way to get your meat just like carnivores always do in the nature. Getting your meat from big slaughter-houses is less natural and less ethical.

Rolling my eyes in disbelief... I hope those comments are not an example of the state of the British educational system.

Guerrero says...
12:00am Thu 25 Dec 08

"What would be wrong with eating wild animals anyway?"
Only the same thing that would be wrong with eating your domesticated animals.
Why would the silly lady who wraps up her little Yorkshire Terrier in a cute coat for the winter months and then eats her christmas turkey with stuffing and gravy not realise that Turkey or Yorkie they are all living breathing beings?
Sorry I don't really get it.

Gentleman Jim says...
12:03am Thu 25 Dec 08

I have eaten venison for some years since reading that it was far healthier than our traditional meat,so would have no problem in trying reindeer.
Two points should be considered
1.Why are animals on earth?
2. How would we have progressed if
stone age man had not eaten animals.

JJF says...
12:36pm Thu 25 Dec 08

Hyvää Joulua ja Onnelista Uutta Vuotta 2009... Merry Christmas and a happy new year -09 from Finland.

Raindeer meat. I eat it, often as a matter of fact. The threehugging flowerdressed people crawl out of woodworks every time there is something they do not understand or like. Well I like Raindeer meat, a lot actually. Rudolf being my favourite :-) just joking. Raindeer stew to be presice. It is part of the traditional foods in Finland including the lapps.

So enjoy the English cuisine this Christmas and new year, I'll stick with my favourites :-) All the best from snowy Finland.

JJ

Muistinorsu says...
3:33pm Thu 25 Dec 08

I am a dedicated vegan, and for ethical reasons have not eaten meat for two decades. Despite that, I think the commotion about reindeer meat is ridiculous. It is utterly naive to think of reindeers as cuddly pets; they are semi-wild (or semi-domesticated). And furthermore: they have a far more better life than the vast majority of the animals that are kept for producing meat. If one must (?) eat meat, it should preferably be reindeer etc.

Tye says...
7:50pm Thu 25 Dec 08

In other words

NO STORY

dave sumner says...
9:53am Fri 26 Dec 08

I support them. It is free range meat as tey have the whole of Lapland to roam. It is helathier and tastier than most other meats.

dave sumner says...
10:06am Fri 26 Dec 08

Nunnuka wrote:
The essence of the story: Brighton restaurant has reindeer on menu - Good for all its customers!
Me being oneof them and it is very tasty too. No problem with that. I also DJ there folks and if i may do a short plug, I am spinning funky groovy vinyl there on Saturday 27th circa 7pm onwards.

Aka DJ Jazzy D

amyp says...
8:34am Sat 27 Dec 08

Reindeer provides the main source of income for the Lappish population living across Finland, Sweden and Norway. They not only provide food for these people, they are transport, clothing and medicine. They are 100% indigenous and a critical factor in the life cycle of other flora and fauna in the arctic circle. Surely an animal which has lived a natural life in uncontaminated surroundings, and a low fat source of protein into the bargain is infinitely preferable to any artificially farmed meat. If she is hoping to reduce cruelty to animals, surely Denise Friend should welcome the addition of such meat to Brighton restaurant menus in order to ease the pressure on our poor British intensively farmed chicken and pig population!

CaptainStarbucks says...
4:30pm Sun 28 Dec 08

Guerrero wrote:
Meat eating is the second biggest cause of cancer behind smoking.So the animals get their own back anyway.
Have a nice xmas tumour.Ho,ho,ho.
I pray you get a nut allergy and die as a result you peasant! Happy choking.

gdf666 says...
10:43pm Mon 29 Dec 08

Tye wrote:
In other words NO STORY
like most of the news in this and most of the other Newsquest papers.

Lets be honest did you expect anything else?

Cheese Rolls says...
10:52pm Mon 29 Dec 08

If you are a vegetarian..well good for you. I am not..I eat meat (my teeth tell me I am an Omnivore ..meat and veg) So does my gut...bacteria helping the digestion etc...No problem with this at all. Why is it so bad to eat a Reindeer..why is it worse than a cow...do they look 'cuter' Total Garbage.

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