That's odd, I make it 7,417. If you would like to know the method behind my prediction, please pay 90Bn dollars into my Madoff account. Or not.

And the buses are going up 20%.

RAS Putin wrote:
That's odd, I make it 7,417. If you would like to know the method behind my prediction, please pay 90Bn dollars into my Madoff account. Or not.

well I make it 13,200 if 40% of the 33,000 retail & leisure jobs are to be lost ?

After some of the poor reporting at the Argus I predict a few more for the chop!

Be fair to the Argus - an estimate is an estimate is a guesstimate.

On the other hand these are the sort of stories that contribute to the feel bad culture we have at the moment

Tye wrote:
Be fair to the Argus - an estimate is an estimate is a guesstimate.

On the other hand these are the sort of stories that contribute to the feel bad culture we have at the moment

Exactly, it breeds fear which exacerbates the problem.

Like I said before, the media have a lot to answer for in this boom and bust.

I think the argus should be a once weekly paper. Like the worthing herald. I might buy it then.

Guys there was a letter about you in the paper today. If you hate the Argus so much just don't bother visiting this website and leave your stupid comments behind.
As for the story, more doom and gloom as usual. It just seems to be that we are being led into this recession. It is not by frightening people with stories like this that they will start spending again. The truth is that the companies that are going bust have been going downhill for years. John Lewis, Debenhams, Sainsburys etc... are still making profit and doing very well because they are well run companies. I belive that Brighton will do better than a lot of cities during this "recession" because there are loads of students here who will continue going out, a lot of tourists and an unique range of shops. We should do all our best to support the shops in the North Laine because they are part of the spirit of Brighton and Hove. The picture doesn't look too bad though because shops like Cyberdog have just opened and as soon as one shuts down another one opens. Many shop owners would really help themselves by being less moody though. You walk into some of the shops in the North Laine and they don't even say hello, goodbye or offer a smile.
Long live the spirit of Brighton and Hove and let's think positive!

dollymixture wrote:
I think the argus should be a once weekly paper. Like the worthing herald. I might buy it then.

Weekly or weakly ? ;-)

sorry but the argus keep getting the calculations wrong, last year they got three wrong that a child could do better, not sure how the town will lose jobs in three years time? unless its meltdown? the labour goverment will insure that the boom is back for the next election..

jyan wrote:
After some of the poor reporting at the Argus I predict a few more for the chop!

agreed! What a dreadful newspaper, full of media studies graduate reporters with no real savvy.

Any one notice how many times shops and other places of business are now starting to ask for proof of age and ID to purchase normal everyday items?

Even pensioners are being stopped from buying a bottle of wine unless they can prove that they are over 25 years of age.

Communist Labour is trying to force their deeply unpopular National ID cards down the throats of law abiding British people who don't want them, don't like them and won't apply for them.

It's time that Communist Labour were banned from standing for elected office, banned from teaching in our schools and banned from being members of trade unions.

Communist Labour are even sending their spies into our churches to check that vicars and priests aren't preaching against Communist Labour policies.

It is a shame and a disgrace that the Tories and the Lib Dems who proclaim that they are liberal and democratic parties will sit in government with Communist Labour, join in coalition with them and even sit with them on the boards of community organizations.

Communist Labour have gotten away with their communist infiltration for too long. They have used policial correctness and health & safety to weasel their nasty communist labour way of life in to every aspect of our lives.

It is time to get Communist Labour out of Britain.

The tree hugger, London yuppies and the do nothingers must be well pleased that the City is now starting to go backwards.

Does anyone buy the argus? or just use this websitr

dollymixture wrote:
Does anyone buy the argus? or just use this websitr

given this quality of reporting, what do you think?...........

guyfawkes999 wrote:
Any one notice how many times shops and other places of business are now starting to ask for proof of age and ID to purchase normal everyday items? Even pensioners are being stopped from buying a bottle of wine unless they can prove that they are over 25 years of age. Communist Labour is trying to force their deeply unpopular National ID cards down the throats of law abiding British people who don't want them, don't like them and won't apply for them. It's time that Communist Labour were banned from standing for elected office, banned from teaching in our schools and banned from being members of trade unions. Communist Labour are even sending their spies into our churches to check that vicars and priests aren't preaching against Communist Labour policies. It is a shame and a disgrace that the Tories and the Lib Dems who proclaim that they are liberal and democratic parties will sit in government with Communist Labour, join in coalition with them and even sit with them on the boards of community organizations. Communist Labour have gotten away with their communist infiltration for too long. They have used policial correctness and health & safety to weasel their nasty communist labour way of life in to every aspect of our lives. It is time to get Communist Labour out of Britain.

i think a closer, less emotional response will reveal that labour policy has been more laissez faire than the previous conservative administration. if you trully understand the meaning of the word communist (your post clearly shows you don't)you will see how polar opposite it is to government policy in this country.
can someone please, i know some of you are out there, debate with knowledge on political issues on this forum

ikdrf- MPhil & PhD -Politics, University of London

IKDRF..a growing number of people don't want a debate - we just want them out of office - the elections on 4th of June being a massive leap forward in that process when Labour will lose control of yet more councils and lose more councillors and by doing so effectively lose the remaining contact they have with the people!

All the while economic conditions were good people didn't care too much about their policies and didn't vote (hence turnouts was very low) but you can expect a massive change now jobs are going and Labours debt induced boom bubble has burst! The spell has been broken. They tell their supporters to blame it on "the Yanks and the Banks"...but they should (and will eventually) stand shoulder to shoulder with those responsible in the dock be they politicians, bankers or americans.

Labour constantly told us they had abolished boom and bust...they constantly told us the Tories bust in the early 90's was due to the credit boom of the 80's. Yet here we are again the end of another boom built on the back of borrowed money...another bust...only this time the bust is bigger MUCH bigger. They can't have it both ways either the Tories were responsible for their bust in which case so is Labour now...or they weren't and Labour aren't now in which case do you really want to vote for liars and spin artists?

Norman Tebbit once said of the 1997 "election massacre" that the Tories were defeated because of "economic incompetence". The same will happen again in 2010 to Labour.

Will things get better under the next Government whoever that may be?...frankly no...we will be paying to sort out this mess for a decade to come. The shock waves it will send around British Politics will cause permanent change to political parties in this country we may see the emergence of new parties and the collapse of old.

Here's to the glorious 4th eh?

IKDRF - reasoned political debate is great, but you won't find it on internet comment pages, here or elsewhere. The angriest people shout the loudest and the most obsessive are the ones who can be bothered to take the time. That's why you can find websites that will tell you that Gordon Brown is a communist dictator who has deliberately bankrupted the country, and other ones that will tell you David Cameron eats babies and hates the old. The middle ground doesn't exist online.

william of orange wrote:
IKDRF..a growing number of people don't want a debate - we just want them out of office - the elections on 4th of June being a massive leap forward in that process when Labour will lose control of yet more councils and lose more councillors and by doing so effectively lose the remaining contact they have with the people! All the while economic conditions were good people didn't care too much about their policies and didn't vote (hence turnouts was very low) but you can expect a massive change now jobs are going and Labours debt induced boom bubble has burst! The spell has been broken. They tell their supporters to blame it on "the Yanks and the Banks"...but they should (and will eventually) stand shoulder to shoulder with those responsible in the dock be they politicians, bankers or americans. Labour constantly told us they had abolished boom and bust...they constantly told us the Tories bust in the early 90's was due to the credit boom of the 80's. Yet here we are again the end of another boom built on the back of borrowed money...another bust...only this time the bust is bigger MUCH bigger. They can't have it both ways either the Tories were responsible for their bust in which case so is Labour now...or they weren't and Labour aren't now in which case do you really want to vote for liars and spin artists? Norman Tebbit once said of the 1997 "election massacre" that the Tories were defeated because of "economic incompetence". The same will happen again in 2010 to Labour. Will things get better under the next Government whoever that may be?...frankly no...we will be paying to sort out this mess for a decade to come. The shock waves it will send around British Politics will cause permanent change to political parties in this country we may see the emergence of new parties and the collapse of old. Here's to the glorious 4th eh?

you spoke with knowledge unlike previous contributors

You can debate as much as you like and get them out of power at the next election, but who on earth would you vote for.
The only difference these days between Labour and Tory is one buys The Guardian and pretends to have socialist values, the other buys The Times and enjoys the two for one meal deals at some posh restaurant and enjoys socialising.

Communist Labour's Minister for Communities - Hazel Blears is getting worried about her once safe Salford seat even though she has a 12,000 majority.

Communist Labour WON'T be killed off at the next election but they are dying off.

I agree with the previous poster in their analysis of Communist labour and the Useless Tory parties.

I feel that more people will opt for Independents, BNP and even Green's. The old Lib-Lab-Con parties are in terminal decline.

guyfawkes999 wrote:
Communist Labour's Minister for Communities - Hazel Blears is getting worried about her once safe Salford seat even though she has a 12,000 majority. Communist Labour WON'T be killed off at the next election but they are dying off. I agree with the previous poster in their analysis of Communist labour and the Useless Tory parties. I feel that more people will opt for Independents, BNP and even Green's. The old Lib-Lab-Con parties are in terminal decline.

So often said, never realised..

TheInsider wrote:
You can debate as much as you like and get them out of power at the next election, but who on earth would you vote for. The only difference these days between Labour and Tory is one buys The Guardian and pretends to have socialist values, the other buys The Times and enjoys the two for one meal deals at some posh restaurant and enjoys socialising.

True,and it is that point upon which frustration is vented.

It is "reported" about the vulnerable specialist shops in the lanes...What about all the others like in St. James Street, London Road? If you are going to do a report then please try and make it a good one!

Can you media idiots not get off the doom and gloom bandwagon? No mention of Iceland buying up the Bexhill and Hailsham Woolies buildings and actually creating jobs!!!!!

IKDRF wrote:

TheInsider wrote:
You can debate as much as you like and get them out of power at the next election, but who on earth would you vote for. The only difference these days between Labour and Tory is one buys The Guardian and pretends to have socialist values, the other buys The Times and enjoys the two for one meal deals at some posh restaurant and enjoys socialising.

True,and it is that point upon which frustration is vented.

The problem is that I suspect the man in the street is so tired of politics in general, and particularly of the labour and tory parties, that there would be an even lower turnout if there was to be a general election now.
Personally, as a previous writer has stated, there really isn't much to choose between them in terms of policies. They both occupy the centre ground, and the only obvious difference is that the two parties have different leaders. And the writer who thinks that the labour party is COMMUNIST needs to get out more, and do some reading. Even the Sun will tell you how wrong you are!
I think there's a general public malaise with politics after Blair, which will be a problem for the 2 major parties at the next election.
In fact it my very well play into the hands of the Lib Dems, and more extreme parties like the BNP.
It's all a bit depressing and frustrating.

Osama bin there wrote:

IKDRF wrote:

TheInsider wrote: You can debate as much as you like and get them out of power at the next election, but who on earth would you vote for. The only difference these days between Labour and Tory is one buys The Guardian and pretends to have socialist values, the other buys The Times and enjoys the two for one meal deals at some posh restaurant and enjoys socialising.

True,and it is that point upon which frustration is vented.

The problem is that I suspect the man in the street is so tired of politics in general, and particularly of the labour and tory parties, that there would be an even lower turnout if there was to be a general election now. Personally, as a previous writer has stated, there really isn't much to choose between them in terms of policies. They both occupy the centre ground, and the only obvious difference is that the two parties have different leaders. And the writer who thinks that the labour party is COMMUNIST needs to get out more, and do some reading. Even the Sun will tell you how wrong you are! I think there's a general public malaise with politics after Blair, which will be a problem for the 2 major parties at the next election. In fact it my very well play into the hands of the Lib Dems, and more extreme parties like the BNP. It's all a bit depressing and frustrating.

Enjoyed your comments. Historically if people want to rid themselves of the government they tend to romanticise the opposition so the Tories stand to gain. However in times of recession (if the govt can carefully spin it) people are known to stick with what they are used to (the Tory election victory in 1992 was an example of this although murdoch worked on the sun readers for them)
I suspect for this reason the Lib Dems may find themselves squeezed out a little.
The rise of the BNP shouldn't be troublesome in a first past the post situation but for the Euro elections I share your concerns.
As regards the Brighton jobs thing.Does anyone agree with me that the media are making things worse?

Ronald wrote:
Can you media idiots not get off the doom and gloom bandwagon? No mention of Iceland buying up the Bexhill and Hailsham Woolies buildings and actually creating jobs!!!!!

Ronald,,,you remind me of the 1980's spitting image programme, where a puppett of Sandy Gall read the news;

"todays job news. 2 coal pits in Nottinghamshire have shut today with the loss of 15,000 jobs, also Ford in Dagenham has laid off 2000 workers. Good news however, Mrs miggins has employed a part time cleaner of thursdays and fridays, and the local library is looking for a cleaner 3 mornings a week."

Get real Ronnie: Woolworths closing lost 27,000 staff, Iceland will create less than one tenth as a replacement.

mark 62 wrote:
sorry but the argus keep getting the calculations wrong, last year they got three wrong that a child could do better, not sure how the town will lose jobs in three years time? unless its meltdown? the labour goverment will insure that the boom is back for the next election..

Maggie didn't manage it so she had to start a war!

Grow up you pedant - a guess is a guess - I'm surprised you didnt mention point 23333 recurring of a person blah blah blah

Slugs next to go under tip:

Brewers - decorative merchants
jessops - camera stores
Caffynns - car dealers

Trust me, im in the know

The Garden Slug wrote:
Slugs next to go under tip: Brewers - decorative merchants jessops - camera stores Caffynns - car dealers Trust me, im in the know

not the pellet making companies though i hope...
are you well after your time off?..no tropical diseases or anything?...anyway your dyxlesia seems to have been cured...mmm...

The media, including national newspapers and independent tv, are not gloom mongering they are actually now doing their job. Many people believe that the gloomy economic situation developed quickly and is being made worse by the media. It wasn't. Local newspapers and tv, knew the situation was serious more than 18 months ago as revenue from their two main advertisers, cars manufacturers and estate agents, began dropping rapidly. Conveyancing solicitors also began losing their jobs but no-one reported that either. Newspapers did not report this because they knew it may spark panic and also that their advertisers may pull advertising completely damaging their own profits. Many of you posted comments about newspapers ignoring the fact that estate agency shops were closing and you were right to be baffled by this omission in the news columns.
Many media organisations, including national newspapers and The Argus axed jobs 18 months to two years ago as this decline began. However, once Northern Rock got into trouble and the Royal Institute of Chartered Surveyors began issuing statistics about the poor housing market, the media could no longer try and keep favour with their advertisers and the cat was out of the bag.
I am not a fan of the BBC, but if it was not for the BBC's Robert Peston having the freedom to report and not being held back by employers gagged by advertisers, we would not have known half of what has been going on.
I can also confirm that The Argus have axed more jobs in the past week and a well-known telecoms company has also asked staff for voluntary redundancies before it goes down the compulsory route.

TheInsider wrote:
The media, including national newspapers and independent tv, are not gloom mongering they are actually now doing their job. Many people believe that the gloomy economic situation developed quickly and is being made worse by the media. It wasn't. Local newspapers and tv, knew the situation was serious more than 18 months ago as revenue from their two main advertisers, cars manufacturers and estate agents, began dropping rapidly. Conveyancing solicitors also began losing their jobs but no-one reported that either. Newspapers did not report this because they knew it may spark panic and also that their advertisers may pull advertising completely damaging their own profits. Many of you posted comments about newspapers ignoring the fact that estate agency shops were closing and you were right to be baffled by this omission in the news columns. Many media organisations, including national newspapers and The Argus axed jobs 18 months to two years ago as this decline began. However, once Northern Rock got into trouble and the Royal Institute of Chartered Surveyors began issuing statistics about the poor housing market, the media could no longer try and keep favour with their advertisers and the cat was out of the bag. I am not a fan of the BBC, but if it was not for the BBC's Robert Peston having the freedom to report and not being held back by employers gagged by advertisers, we would not have known half of what has been going on. I can also confirm that The Argus have axed more jobs in the past week and a well-known telecoms company has also asked staff for voluntary redundancies before it goes down the compulsory route.

interesting reading. but it would suggest that the only reason the media were not reporting was out of self interest......

IKDRF wrote:

Osama bin there wrote:

IKDRF wrote:

TheInsider wrote: You can debate as much as you like and get them out of power at the next election, but who on earth would you vote for. The only difference these days between Labour and Tory is one buys The Guardian and pretends to have socialist values, the other buys The Times and enjoys the two for one meal deals at some posh restaurant and enjoys socialising.

True,and it is that point upon which frustration is vented.

The problem is that I suspect the man in the street is so tired of politics in general, and particularly of the labour and tory parties, that there would be an even lower turnout if there was to be a general election now. Personally, as a previous writer has stated, there really isn't much to choose between them in terms of policies. They both occupy the centre ground, and the only obvious difference is that the two parties have different leaders. And the writer who thinks that the labour party is COMMUNIST needs to get out more, and do some reading. Even the Sun will tell you how wrong you are! I think there's a general public malaise with politics after Blair, which will be a problem for the 2 major parties at the next election. In fact it my very well play into the hands of the Lib Dems, and more extreme parties like the BNP. It's all a bit depressing and frustrating.

Enjoyed your comments. Historically if people want to rid themselves of the government they tend to romanticise the opposition so the Tories stand to gain. However in times of recession (if the govt can carefully spin it) people are known to stick with what they are used to (the Tory election victory in 1992 was an example of this although murdoch worked on the sun readers for them)
I suspect for this reason the Lib Dems may find themselves squeezed out a little.
The rise of the BNP shouldn't be troublesome in a first past the post situation but for the Euro elections I share your concerns.
As regards the Brighton jobs thing.Does anyone agree with me that the media are making things worse?

I'm not really sure whether reporting the redundancies and so on, actually makes things worse.
However, I do think that a certain STYLE of reporting it certainly does.
I wouldn't accuse the Argus of always getting it wrong, but there are times when I feel the reporting is unnecessarily hysterical. "Up to 7400 jobs could go" falls into that trap. First, the use of 'up to'. Then the use of 'could'.
So actually this headline could mean that no jobs will be lost!
See what I mean.
Reporting based on actual facts is the only sort of reporting that should be going on right now, not reporting based on speculation.

Osama bin there wrote:

IKDRF wrote:

Osama bin there wrote:

IKDRF wrote:

TheInsider wrote: You can debate as much as you like and get them out of power at the next election, but who on earth would you vote for. The only difference these days between Labour and Tory is one buys The Guardian and pretends to have socialist values, the other buys The Times and enjoys the two for one meal deals at some posh restaurant and enjoys socialising.

True,and it is that point upon which frustration is vented.

The problem is that I suspect the man in the street is so tired of politics in general, and particularly of the labour and tory parties, that there would be an even lower turnout if there was to be a general election now. Personally, as a previous writer has stated, there really isn't much to choose between them in terms of policies. They both occupy the centre ground, and the only obvious difference is that the two parties have different leaders. And the writer who thinks that the labour party is COMMUNIST needs to get out more, and do some reading. Even the Sun will tell you how wrong you are! I think there's a general public malaise with politics after Blair, which will be a problem for the 2 major parties at the next election. In fact it my very well play into the hands of the Lib Dems, and more extreme parties like the BNP. It's all a bit depressing and frustrating.

Enjoyed your comments. Historically if people want to rid themselves of the government they tend to romanticise the opposition so the Tories stand to gain. However in times of recession (if the govt can carefully spin it) people are known to stick with what they are used to (the Tory election victory in 1992 was an example of this although murdoch worked on the sun readers for them) I suspect for this reason the Lib Dems may find themselves squeezed out a little. The rise of the BNP shouldn't be troublesome in a first past the post situation but for the Euro elections I share your concerns. As regards the Brighton jobs thing.Does anyone agree with me that the media are making things worse?

I'm not really sure whether reporting the redundancies and so on, actually makes things worse. However, I do think that a certain STYLE of reporting it certainly does. I wouldn't accuse the Argus of always getting it wrong, but there are times when I feel the reporting is unnecessarily hysterical. "Up to 7400 jobs could go" falls into that trap. First, the use of 'up to'. Then the use of 'could'. So actually this headline could mean that no jobs will be lost! See what I mean. Reporting based on actual facts is the only sort of reporting that should be going on right now, not reporting based on speculation.

as i was reading your comments about the argus i began to think that it was nothing more than speculation on their behalf- then you said it yourself.
the argus have this habit of lifting stories and the experts of being wide of the mark.
lets hope theyve got this wrong for all our sakes
security word "long-nose" lol

IKDRF wrote:

guyfawkes999 wrote:
Communist Labour's Minister for Communities - Hazel Blears is getting worried about her once safe Salford seat even though she has a 12,000 majority. Communist Labour WON'T be killed off at the next election but they are dying off. I agree with the previous poster in their analysis of Communist labour and the Useless Tory parties. I feel that more people will opt for Independents, BNP and even Green's. The old Lib-Lab-Con parties are in terminal decline.

So often said, never realised..

i'm confused, I thought that the communists cared about the ordinary man; this lot are more right wing than the Tories, the bankers caused the problem, and the goverment has given the money to the bankers, not the ordinary man in the street who has lost his job

IKDRF - you are correct in your assumption. Many local newspapers, including The Argus, are no longer owned by British companies. Newsquest, which owns The Argus and numerous local newspapers across the UK, is now owned by US company Gannett. You can find this information at Company House and I did this research as I was interested as to why local newspapers in the past ten years had become less "determined" in their reporting. The reason local newspapers were bought out by foreign investors was to access the excellent profits local newspapers generated from their local advertisers. These owners are not interested in local newspapers pioneering the truth at any cost for the benefit of their readers, they set profit targets and if this means omitting a negative story about a regular advertiser, then this is what happens. Hence local newspapers failing to report the situation on their very own doorstep about the economic decline beginning two years ago in the housing market. We had to wait for other industries associated with the declining housing market to fall apart before the cat was out of the bag. As I said earlier, some of you picked up on this and questioned why stories were not being covered and your posts were removed.
You will get local newspapers covering stories about the big chains such as Starbucks, or the 99p store, the gas companies etc and other outlets who don't advertise with the newspaper, but you will not get the paper writing about poor service you may have received from a local garage, or a local estate agent being in trouble etc
This is demonstrated clearly by any local newspapers' relationship with its relationship with its local football club. Local newspapers rarely stick the knife into local clubs anymore or dig around too much because the clubs tend to ban the reporters from games and unfortunately, a newspapers' revenue and readership relies heavily on their local football fans and associated advertising too.
Therefore, blogs such as this and independent news letters by small organisations are becoming vital for local people to air the truth before posts are removed by the newspapers. This one will probably disappear later today.

TheInsider wrote:
IKDRF - you are correct in your assumption. Many local newspapers, including The Argus, are no longer owned by British companies. Newsquest, which owns The Argus and numerous local newspapers across the UK, is now owned by US company Gannett. You can find this information at Company House and I did this research as I was interested as to why local newspapers in the past ten years had become less "determined" in their reporting. The reason local newspapers were bought out by foreign investors was to access the excellent profits local newspapers generated from their local advertisers. These owners are not interested in local newspapers pioneering the truth at any cost for the benefit of their readers, they set profit targets and if this means omitting a negative story about a regular advertiser, then this is what happens. Hence local newspapers failing to report the situation on their very own doorstep about the economic decline beginning two years ago in the housing market. We had to wait for other industries associated with the declining housing market to fall apart before the cat was out of the bag. As I said earlier, some of you picked up on this and questioned why stories were not being covered and your posts were removed.
You will get local newspapers covering stories about the big chains such as Starbucks, or the 99p store, the gas companies etc and other outlets who don't advertise with the newspaper, but you will not get the paper writing about poor service you may have received from a local garage, or a local estate agent being in trouble etc
This is demonstrated clearly by any local newspapers' relationship with its relationship with its local football club. Local newspapers rarely stick the knife into local clubs anymore or dig around too much because the clubs tend to ban the reporters from games and unfortunately, a newspapers' revenue and readership relies heavily on their local football fans and associated advertising too.
Therefore, blogs such as this and independent news letters by small organisations are becoming vital for local people to air the truth before posts are removed by the newspapers. This one will probably disappear later today.

Let's hope not. Very interesting stuff.