Taxpayers outrage at West Sussex council fat cats (From The Argus)

meh. what are you going to do? they make their own rules. the only way this will change is if the PEOPLE make the rules for those who represent us. Otherwise they'll just keep taking us for mugs while we site here and complain on a local news site and never actually take any actions.

Just like the politicians with their noses in the pig trough. Something needs to be done, its time for the peoples revolution.

Thiis is the tip of the ice-berg, wait until you see how much these people have been putting on their expense accounts! the police should be called into this a.s.a.p.
This scandel will make MP's look honest!

There's some really sloppy, lazy journalism here (what a surprise in the Argus). Leading with quotes from the Taxpayers' Alliance is never a good move,

What is at issue here is value for money.

So let's take headteachers. Yes, they are well paid; many of them will earn more than £50K. But do the comparison with the private sector, and people with similar levels of responsibility will be earning far more. And pulling in substantial bonuses. So what's the answer, Taxpayers' Alliance? Pay headteachers less?

Or, to take another example, do you want to cut pay and ensure that the best highway engineers work as consultants rather than for the community, ensuring that expertise has to be bought-in by hard-pressed councils, and a far higher cost than paying them a decent salary?

And the same is true throughout local government - salaries in the public sector are invariably lower than those in the private sector for those with comparable levels of responsibility. (I'm thinking of those succesful, public-spirited and altruistic individuals in the banking and property sectors, for example)

Moreover the public sector still contains many people on low wages who, thanks to below-inflation pay settlements, have had real pay cuts in recent years. As far as pensions are concerned, the average public sector pension is less than £4000. It's not a fat-cat existence.

To find the fat cats, you really need to look elsewhere. But it's so typical that a third-rate rag like the Argos should take the rantings of the Taxpayers' Alliance at face value, without asking the real questions about the distribution of wealth in our society, and where the big bucks really are.

My god, will it ever stop? Line your pockets. Keep the salaries high. Give your mates a job on the council. All out of the council tax. Wonder what would happen if the people refused to pay their council tax????
That would bring the fatties into line, aye?

Right that's it, think I will go to their offices and moan at them. How very dare they keep raising my council tax. *************s!!!!

pw08 wrote:
There's some really sloppy, lazy journalism here (what a surprise in the Argus). Leading with quotes from the Taxpayers' Alliance is never a good move, What is at issue here is value for money. So let's take headteachers. Yes, they are well paid; many of them will earn more than £50K. But do the comparison with the private sector, and people with similar levels of responsibility will be earning far more. And pulling in substantial bonuses. So what's the answer, Taxpayers' Alliance? Pay headteachers less? Or, to take another example, do you want to cut pay and ensure that the best highway engineers work as consultants rather than for the community, ensuring that expertise has to be bought-in by hard-pressed councils, and a far higher cost than paying them a decent salary? And the same is true throughout local government - salaries in the public sector are invariably lower than those in the private sector for those with comparable levels of responsibility. (I'm thinking of those succesful, public-spirited and altruistic individuals in the banking and property sectors, for example) Moreover the public sector still contains many people on low wages who, thanks to below-inflation pay settlements, have had real pay cuts in recent years. As far as pensions are concerned, the average public sector pension is less than £4000. It's not a fat-cat existence. To find the fat cats, you really need to look elsewhere. But it's so typical that a third-rate rag like the Argos should take the rantings of the Taxpayers' Alliance at face value, without asking the real questions about the distribution of wealth in our society, and where the big bucks really are.

This comment is typical of the contempt shown toward all tax-payers by these "civil-self-servants
" The tax-payers alliance is the only way forward for this country, we are all sick of being told how much we should be paying these greedy un-qualified people, they should have the guts to resign if they don't like the poor wages, some of us don't even earn minimum wage, yet we still have to pay for these fat-cats and their holidays and expenses. it is high time people refused to pay their council tax, then these free-loaders would have to take a pay-cut! p.s. Argus is spelt with a "U" not an "O"
obviously you are one of the teachers who is being over-paid for teaching a subject you are not qualified for! go back to school.

pw08 wrote:
There's some really sloppy, lazy journalism here (what a surprise in the Argus). Leading with quotes from the Taxpayers' Alliance is never a good move, What is at issue here is value for money. So let's take headteachers. Yes, they are well paid; many of them will earn more than £50K. But do the comparison with the private sector, and people with similar levels of responsibility will be earning far more. And pulling in substantial bonuses. So what's the answer, Taxpayers' Alliance? Pay headteachers less? Or, to take another example, do you want to cut pay and ensure that the best highway engineers work as consultants rather than for the community, ensuring that expertise has to be bought-in by hard-pressed councils, and a far higher cost than paying them a decent salary? And the same is true throughout local government - salaries in the public sector are invariably lower than those in the private sector for those with comparable levels of responsibility. (I'm thinking of those succesful, public-spirited and altruistic individuals in the banking and property sectors, for example) Moreover the public sector still contains many people on low wages who, thanks to below-inflation pay settlements, have had real pay cuts in recent years. As far as pensions are concerned, the average public sector pension is less than £4000. It's not a fat-cat existence. To find the fat cats, you really need to look elsewhere. But it's so typical that a third-rate rag like the Argos should take the rantings of the Taxpayers' Alliance at face value, without asking the real questions about the distribution of wealth in our society, and where the big bucks really are.

This is spot on.

As the article says many of these 'high-earners' are headteachers who have a huge responsibility.

Schools are struggling to attract headteachers as it is. Look how long it took to fill the position at the new Falmer Academy.

These people aren't fat cats all.

If you're going to do an analysis like this it's only meaningful if you exclude people in front-line services like teaching because firstly you can't run schools without headteachers and secondly you can't pay them less because of the afore-mentioned recruitment crisis.

Thanks PW08, at least there's somebody on this forum who is prepared to take a reasoned view of such lazy 'non' news stories. Who are the Taxpayers' Alliance anyway? Where have they come from and what is the nature of the Argus's love affair with them?

The TPA is a convenient rent-a-quote outfit used by journalists too lazy too actually look behind an issue. They don't represent anyone but themselves.

Their list of supporters reads like a who's-who of right-wing academics and business people, some of whom are very fat cats indeed, and many pulling in a large taxpayer-funded salary!

Whilst it may be true that a small number of people in local government are overpaid, a far greater number have to claim tax credits to supplement their earnings.

Funny that the TPA has nothing say about that, nor the continuing bonus culture at the top of the financial institutions. But then they would want to go upsetting their backers would they?

Would any of you want to be a headteacher for £50,000 a year, with all the responsibility that entails?
I wouldn't.
£50,000 a year is £750 a week after tax. £150 per day.
It's not much is it?

What I want to know is what do half of these council workers do anyway apart from sitting in a nice air-conditioned office all day dreaming up new ways to fine people!, perhaps it's about time we had the same system used in the USA which is on a change of congress (their equivalent of our councils)ALL staff in the local offices clear their desks for the new staff that follow that policy.
P.S. has anyone wondered why it only takes half of the amount of politicians to run the USA than the UK despite the former being many times the size of the UK.

Andy R wrote:
The TPA is a convenient rent-a-quote outfit used by journalists too lazy too actually look behind an issue. They don't represent anyone but themselves. Their list of supporters reads like a who's-who of right-wing academics and business people, some of whom are very fat cats indeed, and many pulling in a large taxpayer-funded salary! Whilst it may be true that a small number of people in local government are overpaid, a far greater number have to claim tax credits to supplement their earnings. Funny that the TPA has nothing say about that, nor the continuing bonus culture at the top of the financial institutions. But then they would want to go upsetting their backers would they?

Thanks for that Andy R. I suspected from that explanation, that their rabid attacks on the public sector may have more to do with self interest than public interest.

You are lucky Osama bin there, if you think £150 a day is not a lot. The way children are taught(?) these days they certainly do not deserve the pay. Some of us are expected to live a week on that amount of money and we pay for these fat cats wages out of it as well!

You are lucky Osama bin there, if you think £150 a day is not a lot. The way children are taught(?) these days they certainly do not deserve the pay. Some of us are expected to live a week on that amount of money and we pay for these fat cats wages out of it as well!

It really is very poor reporting! I wonder if this story has been published like this to get a pile of vitriol from the Argus readers

So many organisations use statistics like a drunk uses a lamppost; more for support than illumination. But with any statistic it is the detail behind them that is illuminating. Just contemplate the money spent on employing council workers producing statistics for KPIs (key performance indicators) to justify bureaucrats in central government. These are of no value to front line services but a job creation scheme of massive proportions.

dstocken wrote:

pw08 wrote: There's some really sloppy, lazy journalism here (what a surprise in the Argus). Leading with quotes from the Taxpayers' Alliance is never a good move, What is at issue here is value for money. So let's take headteachers. Yes, they are well paid; many of them will earn more than £50K. But do the comparison with the private sector, and people with similar levels of responsibility will be earning far more. And pulling in substantial bonuses. So what's the answer, Taxpayers' Alliance? Pay headteachers less? Or, to take another example, do you want to cut pay and ensure that the best highway engineers work as consultants rather than for the community, ensuring that expertise has to be bought-in by hard-pressed councils, and a far higher cost than paying them a decent salary? And the same is true throughout local government - salaries in the public sector are invariably lower than those in the private sector for those with comparable levels of responsibility. (I'm thinking of those succesful, public-spirited and altruistic individuals in the banking and property sectors, for example) Moreover the public sector still contains many people on low wages who, thanks to below-inflation pay settlements, have had real pay cuts in recent years. As far as pensions are concerned, the average public sector pension is less than £4000. It's not a fat-cat existence. To find the fat cats, you really need to look elsewhere. But it's so typical that a third-rate rag like the Argos should take the rantings of the Taxpayers' Alliance at face value, without asking the real questions about the distribution of wealth in our society, and where the big bucks really are.

This comment is typical of the contempt shown toward all tax-payers by these "civil-self-servants " The tax-payers alliance is the only way forward for this country, we are all sick of being told how much we should be paying these greedy un-qualified people, they should have the guts to resign if they don't like the poor wages, some of us don't even earn minimum wage, yet we still have to pay for these fat-cats and their holidays and expenses. it is high time people refused to pay their council tax, then these free-loaders would have to take a pay-cut! p.s. Argus is spelt with a "U" not an "O" obviously you are one of the teachers who is being over-paid for teaching a subject you are not qualified for! go back to school.

Oooh....I saw what you did there. You trawled through someone's post, found nothing of substance you could argue against, but you noticed a minor error in the spelling of "Argus" from which you extrapolated a whole set of assumptions about that person.

What a worthy addition to the ranks of the TPA you are!

Granny wrote:
You are lucky Osama bin there, if you think £150 a day is not a lot. The way children are taught(?) these days they certainly do not deserve the pay. Some of us are expected to live a week on that amount of money and we pay for these fat cats wages out of it as well!

Granny dear, I'm all for freedom of expression but I prefer it if backed up by some fact. What are your source of evidence for your claims that teaching is worse now than it was in your day?

The fact that most youngsters can't even speak properly, let alone spell, seems to prove Granny's point fine for me!.

I leave readers to guess which of these postings have been written by local government types in undemanding and well-paid jobs using our time and IT resources paid for by us, the taxpayer, to cyber-skive and sneer at anyone who questions the cushy billet culture at city and county hall. Little wonder these people despise the taxpayers’ alliance for shining a light on their privilege, their idleness and their underperformance.

John Rambo. wrote:
The fact that most youngsters can't even speak properly, let alone spell, seems to prove Granny's point fine for me!.

I'm sorry Mr Rambo, but the last time i looked at a school timetable, speaking lessons did not appear. i'll double check but I'm not sure that there is an option to study GCSE Diction either. Might I be so bold as to suggest that, if there is a problem here, parents might have a role to play here as well. I'm not sure that your reply was actually factually based either - seemed more like opinion to me. Maybe they didn't teach you the difference when you went to school.

Arriseme wrote:
I leave readers to guess which of these postings have been written by local government types in undemanding and well-paid jobs using our time and IT resources paid for by us, the taxpayer, to cyber-skive and sneer at anyone who questions the cushy billet culture at city and county hall. Little wonder these people despise the taxpayers’ alliance for shining a light on their privilege, their idleness and their underperformance.

More stereotyped nonsense from people who have no arguments.

Arriseme wrote:
I leave readers to guess which of these postings have been written by local government types in undemanding and well-paid jobs using our time and IT resources paid for by us, the taxpayer, to cyber-skive and sneer at anyone who questions the cushy billet culture at city and county hall. Little wonder these people despise the taxpayers’ alliance for shining a light on their privilege, their idleness and their underperformance.

Gosh! Do you mean me? I think you'd be surprised what I do for a living. Civil servant I most definitely ain't. Amused by the outraged right-wing posturings of most contributors here, I definitely am.

Arriseme wrote:
I leave readers to guess which of these postings have been written by local government types in undemanding and well-paid jobs using our time and IT resources paid for by us, the taxpayer, to cyber-skive and sneer at anyone who questions the cushy billet culture at city and county hall. Little wonder these people despise the taxpayers’ alliance for shining a light on their privilege, their idleness and their underperformance.

... and I will leave readers to guess which of these posts have been written by those who prefer ad hominem innuendo to argument.

Andy R wrote:

Arriseme wrote: I leave readers to guess which of these postings have been written by local government types in undemanding and well-paid jobs using our time and IT resources paid for by us, the taxpayer, to cyber-skive and sneer at anyone who questions the cushy billet culture at city and county hall. Little wonder these people despise the taxpayers’ alliance for shining a light on their privilege, their idleness and their underperformance.

More stereotyped nonsense from people who have no arguments.

Actually, I agree with Arriseme, I have been saying for a long time about how much these council workers get paid and how little work they do, all you are doing is getting paid to go on the internet and defend your non-existent activities, you should try getting a proper job. Incidently, £150 per day in the current recession/depression
(the worst ever) is extremelly good money for telling a few kids off, for a couple of hours a day, I'll do it if you don't want too !

dstocken wrote:

Andy R wrote:

Arriseme wrote: I leave readers to guess which of these postings have been written by local government types in undemanding and well-paid jobs using our time and IT resources paid for by us, the taxpayer, to cyber-skive and sneer at anyone who questions the cushy billet culture at city and county hall. Little wonder these people despise the taxpayers’ alliance for shining a light on their privilege, their idleness and their underperformance.

More stereotyped nonsense from people who have no arguments.

Actually, I agree with Arriseme, I have been saying for a long time about how much these council workers get paid and how little work they do, all you are doing is getting paid to go on the internet and defend your non-existent activities, you should try getting a proper job. Incidently, £150 per day in the current recession/depression (the worst ever) is extremelly good money for telling a few kids off, for a couple of hours a day, I'll do it if you don't want too !

Off you go then...It seems that you have just the right blend of tolerance, knowledge of the education sector, analytical ability, spelling, punctuation and grammar. They'd be fools not to take you.

dstocken wrote:

Andy R wrote:

Arriseme wrote: I leave readers to guess which of these postings have been written by local government types in undemanding and well-paid jobs using our time and IT resources paid for by us, the taxpayer, to cyber-skive and sneer at anyone who questions the cushy billet culture at city and county hall. Little wonder these people despise the taxpayers’ alliance for shining a light on their privilege, their idleness and their underperformance.

More stereotyped nonsense from people who have no arguments.

Actually, I agree with Arriseme, I have been saying for a long time about how much these council workers get paid and how little work they do, all you are doing is getting paid to go on the internet and defend your non-existent activities, you should try getting a proper job. Incidently, £150 per day in the current recession/depression (the worst ever) is extremelly good money for telling a few kids off, for a couple of hours a day, I'll do it if you don't want too !

But the point is that most of those who work in local government are not particularly well paid; and the minority at the top are professionals who could - potentially - be earning rather more in the private sector, where the things that go wrong are so much more easily swept under the carpet. Senior local government officials are paid far less and open to far more scrutiny than those at a comparable level in large private sector organisations.

The real fat cats in this society are not in the town halls and schools, but in the corporate and banking sectors.

Oh, and for the record I do not work in, and have never worked in, local government.

Murgatroyd wrote:

John Rambo. wrote:
The fact that most youngsters can't even speak properly, let alone spell, seems to prove Granny's point fine for me!.

I'm sorry Mr Rambo, but the last time i looked at a school timetable, speaking lessons did not appear. i'll double check but I'm not sure that there is an option to study GCSE Diction either. Might I be so bold as to suggest that, if there is a problem here, parents might have a role to play here as well. I'm not sure that your reply was actually factually based either - seemed more like opinion to me. Maybe they didn't teach you the difference when you went to school.

When I went to school we were educated in grammar, part of which was how to speak, we were also taught "English" (written and oral) so your comment just goes to show that you are indeed an ignoramus!.

pw08 wrote:

dstocken wrote:

Andy R wrote:

Arriseme wrote: I leave readers to guess which of these postings have been written by local government types in undemanding and well-paid jobs using our time and IT resources paid for by us, the taxpayer, to cyber-skive and sneer at anyone who questions the cushy billet culture at city and county hall. Little wonder these people despise the taxpayers’ alliance for shining a light on their privilege, their idleness and their underperformance.

More stereotyped nonsense from people who have no arguments.

Actually, I agree with Arriseme, I have been saying for a long time about how much these council workers get paid and how little work they do, all you are doing is getting paid to go on the internet and defend your non-existent activities, you should try getting a proper job. Incidently, £150 per day in the current recession/depression (the worst ever) is extremelly good money for telling a few kids off, for a couple of hours a day, I'll do it if you don't want too !

But the point is that most of those who work in local government are not particularly well paid; and the minority at the top are professionals who could - potentially - be earning rather more in the private sector, where the things that go wrong are so much more easily swept under the carpet. Senior local government officials are paid far less and open to far more scrutiny than those at a comparable level in large private sector organisations. The real fat cats in this society are not in the town halls and schools, but in the corporate and banking sectors. Oh, and for the record I do not work in, and have never worked in, local government.

You can defend the total contempt towards us tax-payers as much as you like, You don't fool me, or many other people, we have all been watching for several decades, just how much money is wasted by councils, they will continue to over-rate and over-pay themselves as long as we keep our mouths shut, it's time for these "recession proof fanatics" to admit their total incompetence and clear off!

Granny wrote:
You are lucky Osama bin there, if you think £150 a day is not a lot. The way children are taught(?) these days they certainly do not deserve the pay. Some of us are expected to live a week on that amount of money and we pay for these fat cats wages out of it as well!

I didn't say I thought £150 per day was a trifling amount - I said that it wasn't very much considering all the responsibility involved in being a head teacher.
You can earn as much or more working on a building site as a labourer - with no responsibilities whatsoever.
I'm well aware that some people have to live on £150 a week or less - but they won't be expected to be responsible for the running of a whole school, and all that entails.

"Us taxpayers". I'm a taxpayer. Please don't claim to represent me

Murgatroyd wrote:
"Us taxpayers". I'm a taxpayer. Please don't claim to represent me

You may be a tax-payer, along with 60 million of us in the UK, but do you take a wage from the state ? if you do, then there is serious doubt about your impartiality on this subject.

dstocken wrote:

Murgatroyd wrote: "Us taxpayers". I'm a taxpayer. Please don't claim to represent me

You may be a tax-payer, along with 60 million of us in the UK, but do you take a wage from the state ? if you do, then there is serious doubt about your impartiality on this subject.

Maybe I wasn't clear enough for you in my earlier post. No I do not take a wage from the state. Nor am I blind to the failings and excesses of government at all levels. But equally I will defend the integrity, the experience and the professionalism of many of those who choose to work on the front line of the public services - and their right to earn a salary commensurate with the level of responsibility, the importance of their work and the pressures that they deal with daily. People on this board seem to prefer making unfounded statements about the quality of teaching which seem to arise more from their own prejudices than any factual evidence. When I asked for facts I got none. I've been called an ignoramus though - which was a particularly unintelligent response - but I guess the irony of that will probably be lost on Mr Rambo. Incidentally, Mr Rambo, in what respect do you resemble your namesake?

dstocken wrote:

pw08 wrote:

dstocken wrote:

Andy R wrote:

Arriseme wrote: I leave readers to guess which of these postings have been written by local government types in undemanding and well-paid jobs using our time and IT resources paid for by us, the taxpayer, to cyber-skive and sneer at anyone who questions the cushy billet culture at city and county hall. Little wonder these people despise the taxpayers’ alliance for shining a light on their privilege, their idleness and their underperformance.

More stereotyped nonsense from people who have no arguments.

Actually, I agree with Arriseme, I have been saying for a long time about how much these council workers get paid and how little work they do, all you are doing is getting paid to go on the internet and defend your non-existent activities, you should try getting a proper job. Incidently, £150 per day in the current recession/depression (the worst ever) is extremelly good money for telling a few kids off, for a couple of hours a day, I'll do it if you don't want too !

But the point is that most of those who work in local government are not particularly well paid; and the minority at the top are professionals who could - potentially - be earning rather more in the private sector, where the things that go wrong are so much more easily swept under the carpet. Senior local government officials are paid far less and open to far more scrutiny than those at a comparable level in large private sector organisations. The real fat cats in this society are not in the town halls and schools, but in the corporate and banking sectors. Oh, and for the record I do not work in, and have never worked in, local government.

You can defend the total contempt towards us tax-payers as much as you like, You don't fool me, or many other people, we have all been watching for several decades, just how much money is wasted by councils, they will continue to over-rate and over-pay themselves as long as we keep our mouths shut, it's time for these "recession proof fanatics" to admit their total incompetence and clear off!

I'm certainly not defending contempt towards tax-payers, or anyone else for that matter. What I would say, from my experience of both the private and public sectors, is that there is far more extravagance, particularly at senior levels, in large corporate organisations than there is in the public sector.

In the public services, we get, by and large, what we pay for. Local councils provide schools, transport, libraries, refuse collection and a host of other things. These are expensive and complex things to do. I think it is worth paying professional staff decently - not extravagantly - to do these things well, because it leads to better services for all.

Politicians and especially the media are guilty of pushing the simplistic lie that you can have decent services and low taxes at the same time (and the Taxpayers' Alliance are a symptom of this). But it's not true. Decent public services cost - the recent bin chaos in Brighton is a direct result of the sort of indiscriminate cost-cutting that some posters here seem to advocate.

Andy R wrote:

Arriseme wrote: I leave readers to guess which of these postings have been written by local government types in undemanding and well-paid jobs using our time and IT resources paid for by us, the taxpayer, to cyber-skive and sneer at anyone who questions the cushy billet culture at city and county hall. Little wonder these people despise the taxpayers’ alliance for shining a light on their privilege, their idleness and their underperformance.

More stereotyped nonsense from people who have no arguments.

Is that you Mr X - the highly paid WSCC spin Doctor?

Comparisons are done ona like for like basis i.e we ARE comparing apples and apples so bringing teachers into the equation is just a very clever way to deflect people from the truth and be led up a blind passage

they are coplacent pigs enjoying the trough with enough muscle,advertising budgets, solicitors paid by US and friends and relatives in the meedja to usually keep these things out of the light

Bet the weeklies do NOT give them a hard time - eh West Sussex Gazette?

The reason most people will bring education into the arguement is because they believe that because they have had an education they know all about how to teach, what should be done etc.

Just in the same way in which because they have been to the hospital or doctors they know all about brain surgery. Hold on....

Anyway, if you really want to look at a teachers salary, try working out how much a teacher gets paid based on a per kid, per teaching hour (ignoring the planning, marking, parents evenings etc). I think you'll find that it works out at well below the minimum wage for most teachers.

As to headteachers. If people think that all it is about is telling off a few kids then I can only feel pity for them that their understanding of what is involved in such a job is so limited.

BTW security word FORM-FILL (honestly!)

Granny wrote:
You are lucky Osama bin there, if you think £150 a day is not a lot. The way children are taught(?) these days they certainly do not deserve the pay. Some of us are expected to live a week on that amount of money and we pay for these fat cats wages out of it as well!

just what is so difficult about running a school, you are running kids, not violent mass murderers, if they have problems it is likely to be self inflicted because they keep giving kids and parents, second , third tenth chances

stan bailey wrote:

Granny wrote: You are lucky Osama bin there, if you think £150 a day is not a lot. The way children are taught(?) these days they certainly do not deserve the pay. Some of us are expected to live a week on that amount of money and we pay for these fat cats wages out of it as well!

just what is so difficult about running a school, you are running kids, not violent mass murderers, if they have problems it is likely to be self inflicted because they keep giving kids and parents, second , third tenth chances

You lot are hilarious! 'Just what is so difficult about running a school'. Priceless!

Murgatroyd wrote:

stan bailey wrote:

Granny wrote: You are lucky Osama bin there, if you think £150 a day is not a lot. The way children are taught(?) these days they certainly do not deserve the pay. Some of us are expected to live a week on that amount of money and we pay for these fat cats wages out of it as well!

just what is so difficult about running a school, you are running kids, not violent mass murderers, if they have problems it is likely to be self inflicted because they keep giving kids and parents, second , third tenth chances

You lot are hilarious! 'Just what is so difficult about running a school'. Priceless!

Answer the question! what is difficult about running a school ????
You should try running a business in a government inflicted recession, that is difficult! try dealing with local council officers on issues of business rates or council tax, that is really difficult! you clearly have not lived out here in the real world! You are just lineing your pockets with our money.

dstocken wrote:

Murgatroyd wrote:

stan bailey wrote:

Granny wrote: You are lucky Osama bin there, if you think £150 a day is not a lot. The way children are taught(?) these days they certainly do not deserve the pay. Some of us are expected to live a week on that amount of money and we pay for these fat cats wages out of it as well!

just what is so difficult about running a school, you are running kids, not violent mass murderers, if they have problems it is likely to be self inflicted because they keep giving kids and parents, second , third tenth chances

You lot are hilarious! 'Just what is so difficult about running a school'. Priceless!

Answer the question! what is difficult about running a school ???? You should try running a business in a government inflicted recession, that is difficult! try dealing with local council officers on issues of business rates or council tax, that is really difficult! you clearly have not lived out here in the real world! You are just lineing your pockets with our money.

I am sorry Mr DStocken, but you're really beginning to annoy me now. I'm not sure why I should have to justify myself to you but you seem to be having trouble understanding my previous posts where I have told you twice that I do not work for local government. In fact, I do run my own business. I have to watch every penny. I do deal with the local authority on all the issues you describe and more. Yes, it's a struggle - but I also have children who attend local schools, I get involved in those schools as a governor, and i will not stand by whilst armchair bigots make ignorant statements about the work that they do. That's because I have taken the time to find out how our public institutions are run, about the issues that they face. Have you? If so, maybe you and Mr Stan Bailey could tell me why you think it would be so easy - from a factual point of view, not just from the comfort and safety of your computer chair

Perhaps it is time for the New Labour policy to be introduced to councils. They need to re-prioritise - no new money just take money from one area and give it to another.Next year keep the council tax the same and re-prioritise again. This is the best idea to come out of Downing Street in years.

Murgatroyd wrote:

dstocken wrote:

Murgatroyd wrote:

stan bailey wrote:

Granny wrote: You are lucky Osama bin there, if you think £150 a day is not a lot. The way children are taught(?) these days they certainly do not deserve the pay. Some of us are expected to live a week on that amount of money and we pay for these fat cats wages out of it as well!

just what is so difficult about running a school, you are running kids, not violent mass murderers, if they have problems it is likely to be self inflicted because they keep giving kids and parents, second , third tenth chances

You lot are hilarious! 'Just what is so difficult about running a school'. Priceless!

Answer the question! what is difficult about running a school ???? You should try running a business in a government inflicted recession, that is difficult! try dealing with local council officers on issues of business rates or council tax, that is really difficult! you clearly have not lived out here in the real world! You are just lineing your pockets with our money.

I am sorry Mr DStocken, but you're really beginning to annoy me now. I'm not sure why I should have to justify myself to you but you seem to be having trouble understanding my previous posts where I have told you twice that I do not work for local government. In fact, I do run my own business. I have to watch every penny. I do deal with the local authority on all the issues you describe and more. Yes, it's a struggle - but I also have children who attend local schools, I get involved in those schools as a governor, and i will not stand by whilst armchair bigots make ignorant statements about the work that they do. That's because I have taken the time to find out how our public institutions are run, about the issues that they face. Have you? If so, maybe you and Mr Stan Bailey could tell me why you think it would be so easy - from a factual point of view, not just from the comfort and safety of your computer chair

One minute we are all hilarious, the next minute we are annoying you!
You don't like the truth, that's why! niether do you like freedom of speech, you don't have the capability to listen to anyone else, typical socialist. probably a teacher!

dstocken wrote:

Murgatroyd wrote:

dstocken wrote:

Murgatroyd wrote:

stan bailey wrote:

Granny wrote: You are lucky Osama bin there, if you think £150 a day is not a lot. The way children are taught(?) these days they certainly do not deserve the pay. Some of us are expected to live a week on that amount of money and we pay for these fat cats wages out of it as well!

just what is so difficult about running a school, you are running kids, not violent mass murderers, if they have problems it is likely to be self inflicted because they keep giving kids and parents, second , third tenth chances

You lot are hilarious! 'Just what is so difficult about running a school'. Priceless!

Answer the question! what is difficult about running a school ???? You should try running a business in a government inflicted recession, that is difficult! try dealing with local council officers on issues of business rates or council tax, that is really difficult! you clearly have not lived out here in the real world! You are just lineing your pockets with our money.

I am sorry Mr DStocken, but you're really beginning to annoy me now. I'm not sure why I should have to justify myself to you but you seem to be having trouble understanding my previous posts where I have told you twice that I do not work for local government. In fact, I do run my own business. I have to watch every penny. I do deal with the local authority on all the issues you describe and more. Yes, it's a struggle - but I also have children who attend local schools, I get involved in those schools as a governor, and i will not stand by whilst armchair bigots make ignorant statements about the work that they do. That's because I have taken the time to find out how our public institutions are run, about the issues that they face. Have you? If so, maybe you and Mr Stan Bailey could tell me why you think it would be so easy - from a factual point of view, not just from the comfort and safety of your computer chair

One minute we are all hilarious, the next minute we are annoying you! You don't like the truth, that's why! niether do you like freedom of speech, you don't have the capability to listen to anyone else, typical socialist. probably a teacher!

no really - you are hilarious

dstocken wrote:

Murgatroyd wrote:

dstocken wrote:

Murgatroyd wrote:

stan bailey wrote:

Granny wrote: You are lucky Osama bin there, if you think £150 a day is not a lot. The way children are taught(?) these days they certainly do not deserve the pay. Some of us are expected to live a week on that amount of money and we pay for these fat cats wages out of it as well!

just what is so difficult about running a school, you are running kids, not violent mass murderers, if they have problems it is likely to be self inflicted because they keep giving kids and parents, second , third tenth chances

You lot are hilarious! 'Just what is so difficult about running a school'. Priceless!

Answer the question! what is difficult about running a school ???? You should try running a business in a government inflicted recession, that is difficult! try dealing with local council officers on issues of business rates or council tax, that is really difficult! you clearly have not lived out here in the real world! You are just lineing your pockets with our money.

I am sorry Mr DStocken, but you're really beginning to annoy me now. I'm not sure why I should have to justify myself to you but you seem to be having trouble understanding my previous posts where I have told you twice that I do not work for local government. In fact, I do run my own business. I have to watch every penny. I do deal with the local authority on all the issues you describe and more. Yes, it's a struggle - but I also have children who attend local schools, I get involved in those schools as a governor, and i will not stand by whilst armchair bigots make ignorant statements about the work that they do. That's because I have taken the time to find out how our public institutions are run, about the issues that they face. Have you? If so, maybe you and Mr Stan Bailey could tell me why you think it would be so easy - from a factual point of view, not just from the comfort and safety of your computer chair

One minute we are all hilarious, the next minute we are annoying you! You don't like the truth, that's why! niether do you like freedom of speech, you don't have the capability to listen to anyone else, typical socialist. probably a teacher!

"In fact, I do run my own business."

Which bit of that didn't you understand? You don't actually read the posts do you.

Yes, hilarious. Murgatroyd had it right first time.

I am not here to argue with you, the title of this article is "Taxpayers outrage at west sussex council fat cats" - I am a tax-payer and i am outraged,
I have been studying these fat cats for some time, they are getting paid much more money than cabinet ministers, the corruption and fraud that is being committed at this level needs looking into immediately. stop defending it, this is not a party political issue, nor is it a debate about teachers salaries, it is a point that desperately needs to be raised, as many of the over-payed fat cats tell us they "could get better money elsewhere" LET them go elsewhere, we will find cheaper, yet better people than them!

Murgatroyd wrote:

stan bailey wrote:

Granny wrote: You are lucky Osama bin there, if you think £150 a day is not a lot. The way children are taught(?) these days they certainly do not deserve the pay. Some of us are expected to live a week on that amount of money and we pay for these fat cats wages out of it as well!

just what is so difficult about running a school, you are running kids, not violent mass murderers, if they have problems it is likely to be self inflicted because they keep giving kids and parents, second , third tenth chances

You lot are hilarious! 'Just what is so difficult about running a school'. Priceless!

Well the council works out how much money you are going to need, and gives you tax payers money. You do not have to worry about sales figures or the landlord putting up the rent. You have a large team of advisors to advise you from county hall. Children are children so you would have to be really useless if they suss you out. If you have difficulty maybe you have been promoted beyond your ability

"Taxpayers outrage at west sussex council fat cats" - I am a tax-payer and i am outraged, - ha ha ha. I am a tax payer and i am outraged by the outrage caused by rentaquote tax payers alliance. I hope they are analysing the bonuses the bank executives are getting in the newly nationalised banks as that is more worthy of scrutiny.

Murgatroyd wrote:

stan bailey wrote:

Granny wrote: You are lucky Osama bin there, if you think £150 a day is not a lot. The way children are taught(?) these days they certainly do not deserve the pay. Some of us are expected to live a week on that amount of money and we pay for these fat cats wages out of it as well!

just what is so difficult about running a school, you are running kids, not violent mass murderers, if they have problems it is likely to be self inflicted because they keep giving kids and parents, second , third tenth chances

You lot are hilarious! 'Just what is so difficult about running a school'. Priceless!

So you think running a school is easier than being a plumber? Both earn roughly the same money. I know which I'd prefer to do.
You really have absolutely no idea what the job of head teacher actually entails - do you?

Yeah it's so difficult, they are run by amateur volunteers i.e. governors often with self interest, which is their own kids. It is only glorified child minding; it is not brain surgery

B G Gruff wrote:
"Taxpayers outrage at west sussex council fat cats" - I am a tax-payer and i am outraged, - ha ha ha. I am a tax payer and i am outraged by the outrage caused by rentaquote tax payers alliance. I hope they are analysing the bonuses the bank executives are getting in the newly nationalised banks as that is more worthy of scrutiny.

oh go back to sleep and run wscc for £200k plus "expenses" mr hammond!

Tye wrote:

B G Gruff wrote: "Taxpayers outrage at west sussex council fat cats" - I am a tax-payer and i am outraged, - ha ha ha. I am a tax payer and i am outraged by the outrage caused by rentaquote tax payers alliance. I hope they are analysing the bonuses the bank executives are getting in the newly nationalised banks as that is more worthy of scrutiny.

oh go back to sleep and run wscc for £200k plus "expenses" mr hammond!

how can anyone blame the tax-payers alliance for this rip off ? it is the tax payers alliance that this country needs, not fat cat teachers.
as for banks, we all know they need to be sorted out, but that is not what this story is about, it appears mr hammond is upset about losing his bonus's, maybe he should be investigated ???

Tye wrote:

B G Gruff wrote: "Taxpayers outrage at west sussex council fat cats" - I am a tax-payer and i am outraged, - ha ha ha. I am a tax payer and i am outraged by the outrage caused by rentaquote tax payers alliance. I hope they are analysing the bonuses the bank executives are getting in the newly nationalised banks as that is more worthy of scrutiny.

oh go back to sleep and run wscc for £200k plus "expenses" mr hammond!

how can anyone blame the tax-payers alliance for this rip off ? it is the tax payers alliance that this country needs, not fat cat teachers.
as for banks, we all know they need to be sorted out, but that is not what this story is about, it appears mr hammond is upset about losing his bonus's, maybe he should be investigated ???

dstocken, Stan Bailey: do you really think our children deserve "glorified childminders" instead of proper educators? Do you not think good teachers should be paid a decent wage for the important job they do?

'fat cat teachers'? that's a new one on me. What salary do you need to be earning to be officially described as a fat cat?I am rather annoyed i didnt look into being a headteacher, seems like a right doddle according to the expert opinion on this site. purr purr.

Hardly, isn't there a move to have some of the teaching delivered by assistants, therefore what is being done now cannot be that important.

John Rambo. wrote:

Murgatroyd wrote:

John Rambo. wrote: The fact that most youngsters can't even speak properly, let alone spell, seems to prove Granny's point fine for me!.

I'm sorry Mr Rambo, but the last time i looked at a school timetable, speaking lessons did not appear. i'll double check but I'm not sure that there is an option to study GCSE Diction either. Might I be so bold as to suggest that, if there is a problem here, parents might have a role to play here as well. I'm not sure that your reply was actually factually based either - seemed more like opinion to me. Maybe they didn't teach you the difference when you went to school.

When I went to school we were educated in grammar, part of which was how to speak, we were also taught "English" (written and oral) so your comment just goes to show that you are indeed an ignoramus!.

Mr Rambo - I suggest that you needed to have paid a little more attention in those lessons as I counted at least two grammatical/punctuat
ion errors in your statement - loving the irony!!

New LIEbour have fleeced our pockets over the last few years - to justify this they bribe teachers to fill in all theswe scorecards - every pupil gets loads of exam passes and the CBI tell us students cannot red or rite
Now who do you believe?
PLEASE lets not go on about teachers and look at the real issue - a rotten boro where all the councillors are white middle aged middle class ex army types such as that Lt Col who liked getting his name and FULL title into the West Sussex Gazette at least half a dozen times a week until he told us about his long held plans to retire?

I think it was around the time a high court judge made some comments after local roads

stan bailey wrote:
Hardly, isn't there a move to have some of the teaching delivered by assistants, therefore what is being done now cannot be that important.

So Stan - let's look at the logic of your argument.

To return to a comparison you made: If teaching really was like "brain surgery", and the brain surgeon working on you has an assistant, what the surgeon is doing to your brain isn't that important and the assistant may as well just take over.

That would be ok with you, would it?

odear, evfyone is gettin reely angrey,, theey shuld havf paidd moor attenshun at skool!!!!/

dstocken wrote:
odear, evfyone is gettin reely angrey,, theey shuld havf paidd moor attenshun at skool!!!!/

Bet you passed your A level with english like that ;-), the skool looked good in the tables, the teachers got a bonus and the councillors congratulated themselves

Aplogies to Mr Hammond the chief penpusher at WSCC - he earns more than the PM by a long way(£50k), and a hell of a lot more than the top civil servants who run the whole UK Civil Service
I suppose running west Sussex is more of a responsibilty than running the whole country

Bet also that there will be nothing about this in Connections their free "news"paper

Peeved?

Complain on the WSCC webpage

Complain to the LGO!

Turing Test wrote:

stan bailey wrote:
Hardly, isn't there a move to have some of the teaching delivered by assistants, therefore what is being done now cannot be that important.

So Stan - let's look at the logic of your argument.

To return to a comparison you made: If teaching really was like "brain surgery", and the brain surgeon working on you has an assistant, what the surgeon is doing to your brain isn't that important and the assistant may as well just take over.

That would be ok with you, would it?

I said it isn't brain surgery hence you have schools run by amateur volunteer governors and taught by assistances. It doesn't warrant large salaries

Turing Test wrote:

stan bailey wrote: Hardly, isn't there a move to have some of the teaching delivered by assistants, therefore what is being done now cannot be that important.

So Stan - let's look at the logic of your argument. To return to a comparison you made: If teaching really was like "brain surgery", and the brain surgeon working on you has an assistant, what the surgeon is doing to your brain isn't that important and the assistant may as well just take over. That would be ok with you, would it?

Ok or not, I fear it may have already happened!

Tye wrote:

dstocken wrote: odear, evfyone is gettin reely angrey,, theey shuld havf paidd moor attenshun at skool!!!!/

Bet you passed your A level with english like that ;-), the skool looked good in the tables, the teachers got a bonus and the councillors congratulated themselves Aplogies to Mr Hammond the chief penpusher at WSCC - he earns more than the PM by a long way(£50k), and a hell of a lot more than the top civil servants who run the whole UK Civil Service I suppose running west Sussex is more of a responsibilty than running the whole country Bet also that there will be nothing about this in Connections their free "news"paper Peeved? Complain on the WSCC webpage Complain to the LGO!

Hi, thanks for your comment, i agree with everything you have said, is this Hammond guy one of these Fat cats ?
incidently, i read the Times yesterday, it appears we are now running up a 1.2 trillion pound debt for civil servants penshions!
I have also been looking into the funding and wages of these "Stassi" council officials, they, too are earning more than cabinet ministers(not that cabinet ministers deserve anything)I believe the mp's expenses scandle is going to be completely dwarfed by what these fat-cat councils have been doing!