Sussex Police say "it's none of your business" after high-speed chase (From The Argus)
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Sussex Police say "it's none of your business" after high-speed chase
9:00am Friday 3rd July 2009 in
Police have told the public "It's none of your business" after a daylight high-speed training exercise involving five cars and a helicopter on the A23.
Drivers were shocked to be caught up in the dramatic police operation on one of Sussex's busiest roads.
Five police cars and the force helicopter swooped on a red car as it raced down the dual carriageway at speeds thought to exceed the national speed limit.
But the whole stunt was a training exercise and Sussex Police refused to discuss whether the safety of motorists was put at risk.
Motorists who saw the two patrol cars chasing the red Rover, three more setting up a road block and the police helicopter flying low overhead contacted the The Argus, believing a serious crime had taken place.
Delivery driver Dave Herbert, of Rustington, who watched the drama unfold said: "I was coming out of Crawley when I first saw the police cars with their lights flashing by Handcross.
"Then another one came past me on the outside.
"Then one cut across me from the inside.
"They were going well in excess of 70mph. I was going 70mph and they must have been doing more than 90 mph.
“I didn't know what was going on, but they were really trying to catch him and trying to bump each other off the road."
Sussex Police's Haywards Heath traffic unit , responsible for the exercise, would not confirm the details of the exercise.
A female PC from Haywards Heath roads policing unit, who refused to give her full name, but was identified as PC Sue Whittles by the police press office, said: “It is no one's business, this is a police matter regarding training.
“It is none of The Argus' business and it is none of the business of any member of the public who saw it.
“It happens every day of the year and members of the public are always ringing up, if they choose to ring The Argus then that's up to them."
A police spokeswoman added: "Sussex Police ensures officers receive the highest possible standard of training at all times, in line with national guidelines.
“ In particular, it is essential that police drivers maintain and enhance their driving skills, to ensure public safety.
“Driver training courses, both practical and classroom based are ongoing, and exercises regularly take place on motorways and on country lanes in our county."
Comments(36)
John Rambo.
says...
11:26am Fri 3 Jul 09
lorrie2
says...
11:32am Fri 3 Jul 09
andygunner
says...
11:49am Fri 3 Jul 09
socrates
says...
11:50am Fri 3 Jul 09
Robert Peel
So I would say it is our business! If they want to train - which is of course essential then they can use their training tracks or close sections of the highway - it should not be done through traffic.
Maybe we should stop the army from building fake towns to do their combat training in and run them through Brighton or have the fire service abandon training towers for a local block of flats etc etc
This is why the local police are so against having citizens involvement on how they operate - they believe they are above us.
Whitedot
says...
11:58am Fri 3 Jul 09
Q-car
says...
11:59am Fri 3 Jul 09
Or your other alternative, close the A23 so they can practice - thats never going to cause a problem is it......
AngryFrank
says...
12:08pm Fri 3 Jul 09
Wivvy Dave
says...
12:13pm Fri 3 Jul 09
Osama bin there
says...
12:30pm Fri 3 Jul 09
However, I do have a problem with the response from the police spokesperson.
It IS our business. If you don't want it be our business go and get funding from a private source and not from the taxpayer.
As taxpayers we pay for EVERYTHING. The police spokesperson is arrogant and stupid to not engage her brain before opening her mouth.
I expect some sort of apology will follow.
But it's this sort of arrogance that gives dear old Bibble the ammunition (quite rightly) to continue his one man quest to bring the police to account.
I would like to know how the PC in question would explain this:
We are constantly asked, as the public, to be vigilant. People on the road saw, what appeared to them, to be a police chase. What if some public spirited individual decided to help and ram the car being chased? How the hell was anyone to know that it was an exercise and not the real thing?
Stupid, stupid woman - PC Sue Whittles. And what's this stuff anout not giving her name?
g1mp
says...
12:33pm Fri 3 Jul 09
emma barnes
says...
12:39pm Fri 3 Jul 09
chris elmes
says...
12:40pm Fri 3 Jul 09
John Rambo. wrote:Unfortunately this attitude is widely prevalent, "we're the police and you are just proles do as we say and shut up".It is our business and contrary to the view of some police officers we do have a right to ask whats going on.No reasonable person could question the need for this kind of training if carried out in a rigorously controlled manner.But in my opinion WPC Whittles handled this matter extremely badly,instead of acting in a professional manner and giving a simple explanation which would most likely ended the matter and reassured the public.Instead she acted in a manner that would not be out of place with that of the brown-shirted thugs that comprised the NSDAP's SA (Sturmabteilung)supp
It is the business of the public as we pay the wages of the police, it's about time the police came down off their high horse and started to be more accountable to those who they serve, I.E. the public!!!!!.
orters in the the Third Reich. However she has now found out that she is just one of the minions of ACPO and has found out that instead of hiding behind her warrant card and remaining anonymous whilst giving the public a vigorous and enthusiastic two-fingered salute her superiors have thrown her to the wolves to cover their own backs. I suggest that this officers conduct is questionable and may be an abuse of power contrary to the police code of conduct. All members of the public concerned by this officers behavior should make a complaint to the independent police complaints commission(by recorded delivery)and not forgetting to send a full copy to the Chief Constable of Sussex police(also by recorded delivery)so that he can't avoid taking action by saying the proper procedures had not been followed. The conduct of police officers has been somewhat less of late than we the public expect of them. They need to be reminded that contrary to their opinion we are the masters and they are the servants.
QUIS CUSTODIET IPSO CUSTODES
Joe Average
says...
12:59pm Fri 3 Jul 09
She should be PC Witless for those crass comments
pw08
says...
1:04pm Fri 3 Jul 09
"Police officer rude to member of public" is hardly a story, and that's the point. This has become a story because PC Whittles' attitude is sadly typical of the way the police treat the public. It's also symptomatic of the bad old bunker attitudes that the police were supposed to be dealing with. Perhaps they need to get out more.
bibble
says...
1:06pm Fri 3 Jul 09
The "it's none of your business" attitude causes so much damage to the police, and they don't seem to realise it.
Norfolk and good
says...
1:28pm Fri 3 Jul 09
I feel this has been taken sligtly out of context.
1) The Police should and are allowed to train of public roads. This creates are real situation as opposed ot training on an disused airfield for instance.
2) If the PC did say what she is reported to say she needs to be given some words of advice about how to conduct herself especially towards the press who are always keen to sell the odd paper or two!
3) The Argus knows better than to get a quote from a junior ranked person they should get their quotes from the officer in charge of the training who can give a more informed view of what was happening.
These are cheap headlines !
mintyboy
says...
2:11pm Fri 3 Jul 09
Old Ladys Gin
says...
3:37pm Fri 3 Jul 09
The police are entitled to exceed speed limits for the purpose of training. How does anyone imagine their drivers will gain the skill they need pottering around at 70mph. What would a criminal think 'Well the police can't drive being 70 so bobs the job and away I go'.
A skilled police driver is one of the safest people on the road, because they are constantly trained. Please those nay sayers buy a copy of Roadcraft, the police drives manual and put as much of it into practice yourself when you drive. Trust me it is damned hard, but worthile work.
If any driver is so dim witted as to not to be able to accommodate other road users then they have a simple alternative. Jack in your licence which is in any case a privilege and not an entitlement; otherwise you wouldn't have to take a mediocre at best test.
pw08
says...
4:32pm Fri 3 Jul 09
Old Ladys Gin wrote:I'd agree that the police have to practice on the road, and the properly trained police drivers are about as safe as you can get.
Oh ye gods, it makes you want to bash your head against the wall. The police are entitled to exceed speed limits for the purpose of training. How does anyone imagine their drivers will gain the skill they need pottering around at 70mph. What would a criminal think 'Well the police can't drive being 70 so bobs the job and away I go'. A skilled police driver is one of the safest people on the road, because they are constantly trained. Please those nay sayers buy a copy of Roadcraft, the police drives manual and put as much of it into practice yourself when you drive. Trust me it is damned hard, but worthile work. If any driver is so dim witted as to not to be able to accommodate other road users then they have a simple alternative. Jack in your licence which is in any case a privilege and not an entitlement; otherwise you wouldn't have to take a mediocre at best test.
My point is that the police set themselves up for the sort of flack they've got over this, because the crass comments of PC Whittles are all too typical of a growing attitude problem among the police in their dealings with the public.
While their senior officers talk about serving the public, junior officers on the street appear to be increasingly aggressive and defensive. Add this to the wholly aggressive tactics used in public order policing, like the smashing-up of the climate change camp at the G20 or the absurd shenanigans at Kingsnorth - the farce of police officers claiming they had been injured by protesters when in fact the injuries were the result of getting stung by bees, falling out of cars and sunburn, and you have a real growing crisis of confidence in the service that we, as taxpayers, after all pay for.
This story to me just illustrates how desperately the police need to reconnect with the people they serve.
Granny
says...
4:41pm Fri 3 Jul 09
TheInsider
says...
6:27pm Fri 3 Jul 09
Where do Sussex Police recruit?
They seem to have a knack of employing idiots who are either having sex while on duty, shooting unarmed people, or arresting their own staff and telling the whole world before anyone is charged.
They are an utter disgrace.
I am actually going to email this story to the Prime Minister and ask if he has any comment about Sussex Police.
John Steed
says...
6:37pm Fri 3 Jul 09
the attitude that it is none of our business is typical of the thinking of this "Force" they are and always will be public servants, employed by us us the citizens of the UK to do the bidding of our political masters, whom we choose an a regular basis.
The spokesman who issued this amazing statement apart from winning an award for being forthright needs to be reminded why he has a job, anything and every thing the police do is our business, we trust them to do the right thing, and we rely upon their professionalism at all times, the public will appreciate that training exercises must take place and be as realistic as possible, for obvious reasons notice of this could be detrimental to the exercise and it is assumed that the best possible people to decide on public safety during such an exercise is the overseeing officer, two things the police have no right to, 1. arrogance 2, the right to execute people in our name, sussex police seem to have had more than enough of both,
Old Ladys Gin
says...
6:46pm Fri 3 Jul 09
As the old saying goes 'You get the police you deserve'. Perhaps we are beginning to see that put into practice.
I feel sure PC Whittles has been read her horoscope. She was obviously put into a situation she was not equipped to cope with. Nor do we know how she was addressed on the phone, how much provocation she was given, if that is an excuse.
I know that if a police officer was rude to me, without good reason, I would stand my ground until I got an apology.
I don't think we can drag into this incidents commited by other police forces in different situations.
Is there something underlying? Perhaps or not at all. I hope the police continue to practice and maintain their high standards, in all respects.
Stalker
says...
7:05pm Fri 3 Jul 09
Granny wrote:Sorry but contrary to popular belief we do NOT pay their wages. We contribute between £100/200 to the police Authority and the Fire Brigade so quit whining.
The police spokesman needs to remember who pays their generous wages and who they serve. They do need to train but to say it is none of our business is sheer arrogance.
Nothing infuriates me when people quote the "we pay your wages". Granny for your info the pay is not that fantastic either the Police or Fire Service so shut up and put up.
yorkie44
says...
7:11pm Fri 3 Jul 09
Osama bin there
says...
8:26pm Fri 3 Jul 09
Stalker wrote:Really?
Granny wrote: The police spokesman needs to remember who pays their generous wages and who they serve. They do need to train but to say it is none of our business is sheer arrogance.Sorry but contrary to popular belief we do NOT pay their wages. We contribute between £100/200 to the police Authority and the Fire Brigade so quit whining. Nothing infuriates me when people quote the "we pay your wages". Granny for your info the pay is not that fantastic either the Police or Fire Service so shut up and put up.
So please do tell me - who does pay their wages?
Surely they are totally publicly funded?
tiny scouse
says...
9:42pm Fri 3 Jul 09
Old Ladys Gin
says...
10:03pm Fri 3 Jul 09
9:42pm Fri 3 Jul 09
the delivery driver who said he was doing 70mph at handcross was braking the speed limit of a delivery vehicle which is 60mph on a dual lane road not 70mph and also the police are always doing these training exercises so whats the problem'
Any professional driver needs constant training I agree.
About the speed limit. A light van,Astra type would have a 70 limit on a dual carriagway, not the lower limit of 60. Depends on which vehicle was being driven.
Anyway the whole thing is a nonsense. The PC in question will have been told whats what and that's it - Good luck
Bog Vern
says...
10:06pm Fri 3 Jul 09
pw08 wrote:To quote an earlier post by Socrates
Old Ladys Gin wrote:I'd agree that the police have to practice on the road, and the properly trained police drivers are about as safe as you can get.
Oh ye gods, it makes you want to bash your head against the wall. The police are entitled to exceed speed limits for the purpose of training. How does anyone imagine their drivers will gain the skill they need pottering around at 70mph. What would a criminal think 'Well the police can't drive being 70 so bobs the job and away I go'. A skilled police driver is one of the safest people on the road, because they are constantly trained. Please those nay sayers buy a copy of Roadcraft, the police drives manual and put as much of it into practice yourself when you drive. Trust me it is damned hard, but worthile work. If any driver is so dim witted as to not to be able to accommodate other road users then they have a simple alternative. Jack in your licence which is in any case a privilege and not an entitlement; otherwise you wouldn't have to take a mediocre at best test.
My point is that the police set themselves up for the sort of flack they've got over this, because the crass comments of PC Whittles are all too typical of a growing attitude problem among the police in their dealings with the public.
While their senior officers talk about serving the public, junior officers on the street appear to be increasingly aggressive and defensive. Add this to the wholly aggressive tactics used in public order policing, like the smashing-up of the climate change camp at the G20 or the absurd shenanigans at Kingsnorth - the farce of police officers claiming they had been injured by protesters when in fact the injuries were the result of getting stung by bees, falling out of cars and sunburn, and you have a real growing crisis of confidence in the service that we, as taxpayers, after all pay for.
This story to me just illustrates how desperately the police need to reconnect with the people they serve.
'The police are the public and the public are the police'
Perhaps they are a manifestation of ourselves, the public and the quote by the officer was terrible (if accurately reported - what level of screening or provenance do journalists use to print material????)
Perhaps this is the public - arrogant, selfish, self centered and uncaring.
We are all to blame.
Greyrun
says...
10:57pm Fri 3 Jul 09
Stalker wrote:I am confused, the police force is funded by local and national taxes so why do you say i do not pay there wages?
Granny wrote: The police spokesman needs to remember who pays their generous wages and who they serve. They do need to train but to say it is none of our business is sheer arrogance.Sorry but contrary to popular belief we do NOT pay their wages. We contribute between £100/200 to the police Authority and the Fire Brigade so quit whining. Nothing infuriates me when people quote the "we pay your wages". Granny for your info the pay is not that fantastic either the Police or Fire Service so shut up and put up.
Acheron
says...
7:33am Sat 4 Jul 09
There is no suggesting that there was careless or reckless driving taking place. If so many drivers were shocked, why has the Argus not got more sound bites from other drivers. I suspect our friend from Rustington was the only one willing to give 'spicy' comments for the Argus to print.
In terms of knowing what my taxmoney goes on, I'm happy they are training and have no issues of the details not being revealed. Not much use devising ways of catching theifs etc doing a runner if you then tell them exactly how you will catch them.
If people are so interested in what the police are spending their tax pounds on they can always put in a FOI request. There's loads of stuff that my tax money is spent on, but I don't need to know what brand of loo roll or detergent the police use!
pyroarcher
says...
8:17am Sat 4 Jul 09
id rather my tax money was spent training the police, rather than paying for unskilled and under trained police to mess up.
what if someone was hurt? yeah good point no one was though because they have been training, most road accidents in high speed chases are caused by the one getting chased.
idlebloke
says...
10:34am Sat 4 Jul 09
Well done for printing the stupid cows name. That's one of 'them' we now know to avoid (amongst the many others). How do I bring my kids up to respect the police when there are so few of them that treat 'us' respectfully?
Another one that never got over her school bullying.
andygunner
says...
12:17pm Sat 4 Jul 09
greeg
says...
5:19pm Sat 4 Jul 09
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Peacehaven Paul says...
11:02am Fri 3 Jul 09
ed the The Argus, believing a serious crime had taken place." Of course, that's the first thing you do. "Oh no, there's a serious crime happening. I must call the local paper!!!"