Binmen pay protest outside Brighton and Hove City Council HQ (From The Argus)

GET TO WORK, YOU LAZY IDIOTS.

Fed up of you pretending you're so hard done by. YOU'RE NOT! YOU HAVE IT EASY!

No stop crying about it and GET. TO. WORK.

No-one has any sympathy for you.

These guys work very hard and deserve to be paid well. If there was a possibility your pay was going to be cut by at least £2k wouldn't you go on strike?? How much does the Council pay the management? Why can't they take a pay cut?

It is a horrible job and should be well paid,teachers and ta's should be well paid too-the dustmen should not have to pay for the councils mistakes on pay structure,good luck to them,it was a great protest,,beep beep,,

Did they council permission to take the vehicles from where they should have been working, using up expensive diesel(that I pay for in my council tax)adding to Co2 pollution(wheres the greens when u need them).Must be gross misconduct and a sackable offence surely, good excuse to get rid of them and employ people who want to work. whoops mnow i'll get a postcard too.

too right they should get back to work and if they don't, replace them; it is hardly a skilled job, any idiot can pick up (or in their case drop or just not bother to collect) rubbish - and i think any idiot does. (I've even gone behind them and picked up rubbish they've dropped while stuck in a jam behind their truck - what an idiot am I.)

One point does annoy me in this continuing story and linking it to the equality pay issue - Teaching Assistants are far more skilled, intelligent, hard-working and conscientious (they tend to do more hours and more work than their paid for).

minimee wrote:
It is a horrible job and should be well paid,teachers and ta's should be well paid too-the dustmen should not have to pay for the councils mistakes on pay structure,good luck to them,it was a great protest,,beep beep,,

HELLO...
Teachers = Binmen
oh yes.. should be the same pay... shouldnt they !!!
3 4 years at uni = Teachers
3 4 days qualifed binman....
IDIOT

The workers shouldn't pay the price for the Council's mistakes over pay. It is not just bin men that face these cuts, TAs etc are fighting too. They have hard jobs that not many people want to do. I wouldn't stand for a 2k-8k pay cut, no one can live off of wages like that.

bertnz wrote:

minimee wrote:
It is a horrible job and should be well paid,teachers and ta's should be well paid too-the dustmen should not have to pay for the councils mistakes on pay structure,good luck to them,it was a great protest,,beep beep,,

HELLO...
Teachers = Binmen
oh yes.. should be the same pay... shouldnt they !!!
3 4 years at uni = Teachers
3 4 days qualifed binman....
IDIOT

EXACTLY!So why should the binmen take a pay cut,the teachers and ta's need a pay rise-the money will have to come from elsewhere.

some of you have no idea and i expect are responsible for alot of the litter on the streets.
firstly can i ask why you assume people who pick up litter are uneducated? i know of one person who does this job and has a maths degree.

what will YOU all do without binmen/street cleaners without them the streets would flow with rubbish, the beaches would be covered in glass, vomit and needles.
if you were unfortunate to stand in faeces you would be unsure if it's animal or human.
will YOU go out and clean it up as it's so EASY?
i think maybe it's time you opened your minds to the reality that we need these workers to do all the disgusting, antisocial jobs people like you are too afraid to do.

i hope your all sitting comfortably and not too many people hurl abuse at you just because of your job.
after all remember if people were educated to take there rubbish home we wouldnt need them to start with would we?

cupcakes wrote:
The workers shouldn't pay the price for the Council's mistakes over pay. It is not just bin men that face these cuts, TAs etc are fighting too. They have hard jobs that not many people want to do. I wouldn't stand for a 2k-8k pay cut, no one can live off of wages like that.

I totally agree.

cupcakes wrote:
The workers shouldn't pay the price for the Council's mistakes over pay. It is not just bin men that face these cuts, TAs etc are fighting too. They have hard jobs that not many people want to do. I wouldn't stand for a 2k-8k pay cut, no one can live off of wages like that.

Clearly, they can. If there is room to take a £2k paycut, they must be on WELL above the minimum wage.

Now I'm looking for work. Currently, my girlfriend is the chief earner. I can't get Job Seekers. We can't get any help form anyone. I'd gladly do the binmen's job for £6ph RIGHT NOW.

Binmen get £20k/year?!?! That's more than I got in my first year out of my degree! Cut the wage! Cut the wage! What's the point telling kids that if they fail at school, they'll end up being binmen if the pay is so appealing! The most difficult thing about the job can only be not getting run over by your own lorry. If you don't like the work then leave. There are plenty of people wiling to take your place who would dream of £15k/year!

Good on em I say, think we'd all be peed off if we were threatened with a pay cut, blame the tight council not the binmen.

Still, look on the bright side. The Tories may be slashing the wages of essential workers in Brighton, but at least their friends in the City are getting their six-figure bonuses back ...

Mary Mears should be so proud.

Security word: Goldsmid

Are the people who are so sure the dustman are lazy and overpaid fancy doing the job for pitance,I should not think so and how many of you having a load of old mouth are on the good old social gravy train,quite a few I expect you have nothing better to do than slag off public servants who do the dirty work you do not want to do.Good luck to them and tell Mary Mears and her cronnies to stop wasting our monies giving there own type a £50,000 PAY OFF because he had had enough of the job aged 50

cupcakes wrote:
The workers shouldn't pay the price for the Council's mistakes over pay. It is not just bin men that face these cuts, TAs etc are fighting too. They have hard jobs that not many people want to do. I wouldn't stand for a 2k-8k pay cut, no one can live off of wages like that.

No one can live off £15k a year?

Don't be daft, I do and half the population does.

To everyone that has left derogatory comments, would you leave your warm & comfortable beds at 5am, walk miles in all weathers & sort through other people's detritus all day, and then cheerfully accept a pay-cut? Without the binmen, recycling operatives, street cleaners etc where would we be? These guys just want a fair pay for an incredibly hard job. Just because its not the most glamourous job, it doesn't mean that the people who do it are either scabby or uneducated, far from it in fact. They are just decent, honest, hardworking people who deserve to be treated a whole lot better. I would rather be in a room with them than those that have left these remarks. Perhaps we should appreciate them a bit more and see the people rather than the rubbish? I and many others fully support them and thank them for all their hard work:-)

mike_on_the_mike wrote:
Binmen get £20k/year?!?! That's more than I got in my first year out of my degree! Cut the wage! Cut the wage! What's the point telling kids that if they fail at school, they'll end up being binmen if the pay is so appealing! The most difficult thing about the job can only be not getting run over by your own lorry. If you don't like the work then leave. There are plenty of people wiling to take your place who would dream of £15k/year!

I wasn't told I'd become a binman if I failed at school (in fact "my old man's a dustman" was an inspiring and uplifting little ditty). I was told I wouldn't get a job at all.

If you were told that being a binman was a job worthy of nothing but contempt then I can see why you have said what you have said.

True, a degree in Rocket Science is not given in the Job Description, but given that you are obviously so ignorant of the role, it's worth pointing out to you that "not getting run over by your own lorry" should have probably been taught to you at school (rather than 'jobs that peasants and people below you do' - right before 'chemistry').

Are you currently sat by candle light, typing on a dynamo powered computer, sweating about where you're going to download your next meal from?

No?

Well if it botheres you that much, I suggest you put your degree to good use (whatever it may be in - I rather think 'shooting people less good than you' - did you get a first?) and get a proper job.

Hey, I hear binmen get a fair whack, why not apply?

if the bin men dont accept the cut, it comes out of our taxes instead.

I am having to repost, because apparently someone complained about the use of a word beginning with 'a' which means bottom!

Anyway, I think I said that they need to get off their fat bottoms and get back to work and empty my bin - which is what I pay my council tax for.
If the don't like wages or the job they can alway vote with their feet and leave. I'm sure there are plenty fo eastern european workers who would find £15k a more than adequate wage, and they won't leave a trail of rubbish behind the lorry, as happens on an almost weekly basis in our street.

Osama bin there wrote:

cupcakes wrote: The workers shouldn't pay the price for the Council's mistakes over pay. It is not just bin men that face these cuts, TAs etc are fighting too. They have hard jobs that not many people want to do. I wouldn't stand for a 2k-8k pay cut, no one can live off of wages like that.

No one can live off £15k a year? Don't be daft, I do and half the population does.

i dont even get 15k so if my partner loses 2k from his wages.... well who knows what will happen to us

Osama bin there wrote:
I am having to repost, because apparently someone complained about the use of a word beginning with 'a' which means bottom! Anyway, I think I said that they need to get off their fat bottoms and get back to work and empty my bin - which is what I pay my council tax for. If the don't like wages or the job they can alway vote with their feet and leave. I'm sure there are plenty fo eastern european workers who would find £15k a more than adequate wage, and they won't leave a trail of rubbish behind the lorry, as happens on an almost weekly basis in our street.

Hmmm, the old "I pay my council tax/your wages" number.

How I love it so.

Well, while your waiting for the xenophobic bee to exit your bonnet, and the ignorant chip to fall off your shoulder, it might be worth pointing out that your council tax also pays for......(inhales)

Council Tax, Housing Benefit, Community Developement, Health and Social Care, Housing, Elderly Care, Leisure Facilities, Libraries and Museums, Parks, Parking and Open Spaces, Refuse and Recycling collection, schools, Youth services....... *collapses

(recovers)..... Not to mention other services your hard earned money contributes towards such as police, fire, Nation Health and Coastgaurds.

(this list is in no way definitive and has been shamelessly lifted from the Salford City Council website - I couldn't find the section I wanted on ours)

Now, if pushed, I could find a way to pick holes in every service listed above, pointing out that Eastern European workers would probably do it for less. Would I be justified to do so?

If you think so then please remove the Daily Mail from your word begining with "a" that means bottom

Constructive critisism on a service is one thing, lazily shouting that poorer people would do it for less money is another.

Might I posit the hypothesis that your word beginning with "a", which means bottom, is considerably larger than those you scream at from within your comfy armchair.

Time for B&HCC to call their bluff. The attitude that they can't face disciplinary procedures because that would mean wild cat strikes and streets stacked up with rubbish, is unacceptable. Dismiss each and everyone of them who decided to break the law today by blocking a public highway as well as unauthorised use of a work vehicle and I will be happy for the council to throw public money at an agency to replace them untilthe posts are recruited to.

This has been going on for years, its 'the weasel' trade union chap on a power trip whipping up a group of low IQ manual workers in to believing they are worth upwards of £25k a year. Pathetic and a joke.

Show some balls councillors.

I tend to think most of the contributors have got the wrong target in their sights. The main issue here is the "Equality Legislation" that has been enacted by Nu-Labor to ensure equal pay for equal jobs. This does not take into account previous hard won increases or any differences in working environment. If a process has been applied (Hays?) that says A is of equal worth to B then they should be paid equal. When this is applied by governments/councils they are always going to opt for the cheapest solution eg when men applied for retirement at 60 to be equal with women the cheaper solution was to increase the retirement age of woment to 65. This Equality Legislation is full of unintended consequences ..... and if we leave the EU we might even be able to recind it.

The council shouldn't have paid the compensation money anyway. Only a fool would think you can bracket such varying jobs as being "equal". Instead the council should have spent some of the money on hiring decent lawyers to fight any claims. The binmen aren't in the wrong here - the council and the workers who jumped on the bandwagon looking for a quick buck are.

Fight Back wrote:
The council shouldn't have paid the compensation money anyway. Only a fool would think you can bracket such varying jobs as being "equal". Instead the council should have spent some of the money on hiring decent lawyers to fight any claims. The binmen aren't in the wrong here - the council and the workers who jumped on the bandwagon looking for a quick buck are.

A quick buck?! Yeah-just like all cases of overcoming inequality (based on gender, age, sexuality, ethnicity...) I'm sure this was a flimsy, quicky, easy process of no real value or meaning. There is a wider context to this-it really isn't just about money, or a "quick buck". Please think about it harder.

Jo Buckland wrote:
These guys work very hard and deserve to be paid well. If there was a possibility your pay was going to be cut by at least £2k wouldn't you go on strike?? How much does the Council pay the management? Why can't they take a pay cut?

the fact is the council made a mistake paying the workers this much in the first place. I have just had my wages cut by £3.5k PA thanks to a contract technicalilty - I havent taken any drastic action because I am glad to have a job in these disastrous times, and the bin men should think the same way.

Being a Dustman these days isnt as horrible, or hard as it used to be. They only have to wheel bins to the cart and they get automatically emptied. they wont take anything thats not in a wheelie bin or black bag. Compare it to having to actually carry bins, sometimes from rear of properties, and empty them manually. These guys now are lucky, and have it fairly easy....however, they dont get tips for taking an old mattress etc, and dont get a xmas box anymore. so i would say the money is about right. If the council want to make savings, why not have a cull of all the dead wood in their offices?

oh dear wrote:

Fight Back wrote:
The council shouldn't have paid the compensation money anyway. Only a fool would think you can bracket such varying jobs as being "equal". Instead the council should have spent some of the money on hiring decent lawyers to fight any claims. The binmen aren't in the wrong here - the council and the workers who jumped on the bandwagon looking for a quick buck are.

A quick buck?! Yeah-just like all cases of overcoming inequality (based on gender, age, sexuality, ethnicity...) I'm sure this was a flimsy, quicky, easy process of no real value or meaning. There is a wider context to this-it really isn't just about money, or a "quick buck". Please think about it harder.

It is a quick buck rather than an "equality" payment. Firstly the workers involved took their job at the rate of pay that was being offered. If they didn't feel this was enough or that there was some issue with the pay being unequal they shouldn't have taken the job. Secondly, the measure of equality in this case is nothing of the sort. TAs do not do the same job as a binman. The TAs should be paid the going rate for a TA with no comparision against another completely different job. The fact that the binmen were paid more than them is absolutely not relevent.
If the TAs were underpaid for THEIR role then that is a completely different matter and has nothing to do with the pay of the binmen. With your last statement you're clearly a TA so of course you're going to accept a cheque for thousands of pounds even though you shouldn't be entitled to it.

Once upon a time bin men used to come round the back of your house, pick up your bin and empty it. The public liked them a gave them a substantial Xmas box.On many occassions, being disabled they would, if I forgot climb over my gate and open it and empty the bin when they had every right not to. That was a service. Now we have to wheel out our micro-chipped bin to the edge of our property and later, remove it when nine times out of ten its been left with our neighbours or down the street. The "collectors" now wheel the bin from outside to the electric lift on the wagon and back. If your lids up, its too full, or heavy they will not take it or fine you. Do we care if they pay is reduced in line with the actual work they do? Hell no, we do 50% for them and we also pay their wages. Does this work require more pay than a library assistant or teaching assistant or care assistant? No. Have we not been told by our government over and over that its these type of low paid jobs we need unlimited immigrantion for? Well if the bin don't like it let them go - they are a different breed of the old binmen.

Well I hope there pay is deducted for this as they are

a) Not working
b) Using Council Vehicles for non council work
c) Using council Diesel

Lets see the union get out of that one

Mexican Crimewave wrote:

Osama bin there wrote: I am having to repost, because apparently someone complained about the use of a word beginning with 'a' which means bottom! Anyway, I think I said that they need to get off their fat bottoms and get back to work and empty my bin - which is what I pay my council tax for. If the don't like wages or the job they can alway vote with their feet and leave. I'm sure there are plenty fo eastern european workers who would find £15k a more than adequate wage, and they won't leave a trail of rubbish behind the lorry, as happens on an almost weekly basis in our street.

Hmmm, the old "I pay my council tax/your wages" number. How I love it so. Well, while your waiting for the xenophobic bee to exit your bonnet, and the ignorant chip to fall off your shoulder, it might be worth pointing out that your council tax also pays for......(inhales) Council Tax, Housing Benefit, Community Developement, Health and Social Care, Housing, Elderly Care, Leisure Facilities, Libraries and Museums, Parks, Parking and Open Spaces, Refuse and Recycling collection, schools, Youth services....... *collapses (recovers)..... Not to mention other services your hard earned money contributes towards such as police, fire, Nation Health and Coastgaurds. (this list is in no way definitive and has been shamelessly lifted from the Salford City Council website - I couldn't find the section I wanted on ours) Now, if pushed, I could find a way to pick holes in every service listed above, pointing out that Eastern European workers would probably do it for less. Would I be justified to do so? If you think so then please remove the Daily Mail from your word begining with "a" that means bottom Constructive critisism on a service is one thing, lazily shouting that poorer people would do it for less money is another. Might I posit the hypothesis that your word beginning with "a", which means bottom, is considerably larger than those you scream at from within your comfy armchair.

1. How do you know that they are financially worse off than me?
2. I'm not in an armchair.
3. My bottom is not as big as you obviously think it is.
4. I never read the Daily Mail.
5. I am not xenophobic. I welcome the infux of foreign workers (as long as they have a legitimate right to work here).
6. Believe it or not I'm well aware that council tax is used to pay for things other than refuse collection, so you could have saved your time looking it up on the Salford website.
7. I am fed up with public workers striking, not doing their job properly, and then crying 'foul' when someone criticises them.
All workers, self employed or otherwise, have the ultimate sanction. They can leave their job and get another one. If the employer can't fill the vacancy they will have to increase the wage until they can. If however they can find someone to do the job cheaper - why shouldn't they employ them?
It's called a market economy. If you don't like it, you have a problem, as all the main political parties in the UK sing from the same hymn sheet on that one.

Osama bin there writes that there are many eastern european workers who would find £15k a more than adequate wage. I, and millions of other pensioners would be only too pleased to have to live on this. That being said, I think the refuse collectors have a rotten job, which they do , at least in my area, very well. I think they earn their money especially as my area the crews have been reduced from three men to two, the reason given by the council that there are now community bins in Brighton. We still have the same number of wheelie bins as before with one less man to do the job. And the council want to cut their pay? It is absolutely ridiculous.

Fight Back wrote:

oh dear wrote:

Fight Back wrote: The council shouldn't have paid the compensation money anyway. Only a fool would think you can bracket such varying jobs as being "equal". Instead the council should have spent some of the money on hiring decent lawyers to fight any claims. The binmen aren't in the wrong here - the council and the workers who jumped on the bandwagon looking for a quick buck are.

A quick buck?! Yeah-just like all cases of overcoming inequality (based on gender, age, sexuality, ethnicity...) I'm sure this was a flimsy, quicky, easy process of no real value or meaning. There is a wider context to this-it really isn't just about money, or a "quick buck". Please think about it harder.

It is a quick buck rather than an "equality" payment. Firstly the workers involved took their job at the rate of pay that was being offered. If they didn't feel this was enough or that there was some issue with the pay being unequal they shouldn't have taken the job. Secondly, the measure of equality in this case is nothing of the sort. TAs do not do the same job as a binman. The TAs should be paid the going rate for a TA with no comparision against another completely different job. The fact that the binmen were paid more than them is absolutely not relevent. If the TAs were underpaid for THEIR role then that is a completely different matter and has nothing to do with the pay of the binmen. With your last statement you're clearly a TA so of course you're going to accept a cheque for thousands of pounds even though you shouldn't be entitled to it.

I'm not a TA; I'm not in any job to be in a position for an Equal Pay settlement. My understand was that certain jobs, which have historically been filled by women (and been associated as more of a female role), such as TAs have been consistently paid less then those undertaken by men, despite there not necessarily being any higher skill set required for the higher paid jobs. Isn't that why it has been termed as an equal pay settlement? This is why I am saying that nothing about this has been quick as far as I am aware, as such equalities issues have been years in the making. What is your understanding of the issue (and please be serious, as I am genuinely interested)?

Osama bin there wrote:

Mexican Crimewave wrote:

Osama bin there wrote: I am having to repost, because apparently someone complained about the use of a word beginning with 'a' which means bottom! Anyway, I think I said that they need to get off their fat bottoms and get back to work and empty my bin - which is what I pay my council tax for. If the don't like wages or the job they can alway vote with their feet and leave. I'm sure there are plenty fo eastern european workers who would find £15k a more than adequate wage, and they won't leave a trail of rubbish behind the lorry, as happens on an almost weekly basis in our street.

Hmmm, the old "I pay my council tax/your wages" number. How I love it so. Well, while your waiting for the xenophobic bee to exit your bonnet, and the ignorant chip to fall off your shoulder, it might be worth pointing out that your council tax also pays for......(inhales) Council Tax, Housing Benefit, Community Developement, Health and Social Care, Housing, Elderly Care, Leisure Facilities, Libraries and Museums, Parks, Parking and Open Spaces, Refuse and Recycling collection, schools, Youth services....... *collapses (recovers)..... Not to mention other services your hard earned money contributes towards such as police, fire, Nation Health and Coastgaurds. (this list is in no way definitive and has been shamelessly lifted from the Salford City Council website - I couldn't find the section I wanted on ours) Now, if pushed, I could find a way to pick holes in every service listed above, pointing out that Eastern European workers would probably do it for less. Would I be justified to do so? If you think so then please remove the Daily Mail from your word begining with "a" that means bottom Constructive critisism on a service is one thing, lazily shouting that poorer people would do it for less money is another. Might I posit the hypothesis that your word beginning with "a", which means bottom, is considerably larger than those you scream at from within your comfy armchair.

1. How do you know that they are financially worse off than me? 2. I'm not in an armchair. 3. My bottom is not as big as you obviously think it is. 4. I never read the Daily Mail. 5. I am not xenophobic. I welcome the infux of foreign workers (as long as they have a legitimate right to work here). 6. Believe it or not I'm well aware that council tax is used to pay for things other than refuse collection, so you could have saved your time looking it up on the Salford website. 7. I am fed up with public workers striking, not doing their job properly, and then crying 'foul' when someone criticises them. All workers, self employed or otherwise, have the ultimate sanction. They can leave their job and get another one. If the employer can't fill the vacancy they will have to increase the wage until they can. If however they can find someone to do the job cheaper - why shouldn't they employ them? It's called a market economy. If you don't like it, you have a problem, as all the main political parties in the UK sing from the same hymn sheet on that one.

1. At what point did I say you were financially worse of than "them"?

2. I am. It's comfy.

3. I think you have a posterior complex.

4. I never said you read it, I said it was inserted in your..... wait, maybe I have a posterior complex.

5. Good to know you'll welcome with open arms, any poverty stricken migrant as long as they have the correct paperwork.

6. I don't think that before your little tyrade, you had taken anything of the sort into consideration, so no, I don't believe it.

7. I'm fed up with people moaning for the sake of moaning. What productivity can be gained from sounding off about tiny things that, in the grand scheme of things, will never appease your crushing need to be right about everything.

You have not constructively criticised the service or the workers themselves.

Do you honestly believe they all did it because they are lazy? Is it fun and games for them to leave your street in a mess? Do you not think that there is already a strong eastern european presence within the workforce?

If you must attack the system, know what it is you are attacking first. Don't just blame those who you see and who you can attach your own frustrations to.

If you don't read the Daily mail, perhaps you should. There's a whole world of destructive commentary out there for you to enjoy.

If they don't like their pay then they should get new jobs!

VoodooGangbanger wrote:
I stand with the binmen its not their fault at all, they do a Hard job, with all the people **** up on heroin here and needles thrown into bins, glass, and other **** thrown into black bags they take considerable risk to health to do their jobs, like security guards and soldiers they deserve a higher pay for the risk to health and for serving the public.

worst of all being a binman is a thankless job and you get criticized and trivialized by fucktards on the argus website.

Very well said!!! :-)

I would sooner see pay going to the bin men rather than the people who organise health walks. It is time the council realised we are capable of deciding when and where to walk for outselves and put out money into real services that we all need.

Mexican Crimewave wrote:

Osama bin there wrote:

Mexican Crimewave wrote:

Osama bin there wrote: I am having to repost, because apparently someone complained about the use of a word beginning with 'a' which means bottom! Anyway, I think I said that they need to get off their fat bottoms and get back to work and empty my bin - which is what I pay my council tax for. If the don't like wages or the job they can alway vote with their feet and leave. I'm sure there are plenty fo eastern european workers who would find £15k a more than adequate wage, and they won't leave a trail of rubbish behind the lorry, as happens on an almost weekly basis in our street.

Hmmm, the old "I pay my council tax/your wages" number. How I love it so. Well, while your waiting for the xenophobic bee to exit your bonnet, and the ignorant chip to fall off your shoulder, it might be worth pointing out that your council tax also pays for......(inhales) Council Tax, Housing Benefit, Community Developement, Health and Social Care, Housing, Elderly Care, Leisure Facilities, Libraries and Museums, Parks, Parking and Open Spaces, Refuse and Recycling collection, schools, Youth services....... *collapses (recovers)..... Not to mention other services your hard earned money contributes towards such as police, fire, Nation Health and Coastgaurds. (this list is in no way definitive and has been shamelessly lifted from the Salford City Council website - I couldn't find the section I wanted on ours) Now, if pushed, I could find a way to pick holes in every service listed above, pointing out that Eastern European workers would probably do it for less. Would I be justified to do so? If you think so then please remove the Daily Mail from your word begining with "a" that means bottom Constructive critisism on a service is one thing, lazily shouting that poorer people would do it for less money is another. Might I posit the hypothesis that your word beginning with "a", which means bottom, is considerably larger than those you scream at from within your comfy armchair.

1. How do you know that they are financially worse off than me? 2. I'm not in an armchair. 3. My bottom is not as big as you obviously think it is. 4. I never read the Daily Mail. 5. I am not xenophobic. I welcome the infux of foreign workers (as long as they have a legitimate right to work here). 6. Believe it or not I'm well aware that council tax is used to pay for things other than refuse collection, so you could have saved your time looking it up on the Salford website. 7. I am fed up with public workers striking, not doing their job properly, and then crying 'foul' when someone criticises them. All workers, self employed or otherwise, have the ultimate sanction. They can leave their job and get another one. If the employer can't fill the vacancy they will have to increase the wage until they can. If however they can find someone to do the job cheaper - why shouldn't they employ them? It's called a market economy. If you don't like it, you have a problem, as all the main political parties in the UK sing from the same hymn sheet on that one.

1. At what point did I say you were financially worse of than "them"? 2. I am. It's comfy. 3. I think you have a posterior complex. 4. I never said you read it, I said it was inserted in your..... wait, maybe I have a posterior complex. 5. Good to know you'll welcome with open arms, any poverty stricken migrant as long as they have the correct paperwork. 6. I don't think that before your little tyrade, you had taken anything of the sort into consideration, so no, I don't believe it. 7. I'm fed up with people moaning for the sake of moaning. What productivity can be gained from sounding off about tiny things that, in the grand scheme of things, will never appease your crushing need to be right about everything. You have not constructively criticised the service or the workers themselves. Do you honestly believe they all did it because they are lazy? Is it fun and games for them to leave your street in a mess? Do you not think that there is already a strong eastern european presence within the workforce? If you must attack the system, know what it is you are attacking first. Don't just blame those who you see and who you can attach your own frustrations to. If you don't read the Daily mail, perhaps you should. There's a whole world of destructive commentary out there for you to enjoy.

It's a shame we have seen no evidence of any of your own ideas.
Just an inarticulate and ungrammatical rant, full of cheap point scoring with no evidence to back up anything you say.
Last point. Thatcher was a tyrant and a bully, who, in my opinion, did more harm to this country than any other leader since WW2. But she did get one thing right. She took on the trade unions who were hellbent on wrecking this country, and emasculated them for good.
So any union that calls a strike is wasting their time.
And that's got to be a good thing.

I would like to say thanks to the majority of residents in Brighton & Hove, for their support in our demonstration today and our ongoing protest to protect our wage.
To some comments received above implying being a dustman is easy, well its not!! It’s a very demanding job physically!! Some do find it hard. Some find it easy. As I say, if you have never done the job, please don’t criticise as most of you haven’t got a clue!!
I agree with some comments, yes there are lazy people in our workforce but just like in all workforces. Some do work very hard and its luck of the draw, some have good binmen, some don’t!
The job can be very dangerous from violent and abusive residents, to cars driving onto pavements to avoid the congestion caused by blocking the public highway. Not known by many, a collection vehicle is allowed by law to block a highway whilst collecting. Drug syringes in black bags and on public footpaths. Many more that I could note.
As a nation majority of us live life to our means and most are in debt of one form or another. These pay cuts are unlawful and most probably would cost the Brighton resident more in the long run. The council are putting a plan together to fire 823 workers if they do not except their pay cut. As there will be many court cases due to unfair dismissal, costing the council millions!
If pay cuts were introduced across the board, from the top dog to the lowest worker, in my eyes that would be fair, but that would be unheard of!! Attacking the lowest paid workers is not the solution.
Thanks again for the support and also to like to add, how amazed I am by solidarity of the workforce!!

it amazes me how many ignorant people have access to the internet. but do those same people know that the council had hired a suite in the metropole to interview for the position of excecutive with a salary of 170k . POINT 2 how can u compare a job that has 10 plus weeks holiday a year dosent have to put up with the elements an abuse the public seems to take pride in hurling at us on a daily basis.also don't have to work on bank holidays an weekends. POINT 3 other councils up an down the country are bringing wages up instead of using it as a cost cutting exersise. think its about time these numpties got the facts before they start slating the men an women who day in day out work in all weathers an deal with all sorts of materials that are dangerous or disgusting. an finally why don't they leave there wages alone an just amend there contract on future employees

This is the council which paid £500,000 of our money so they could pay off the chief executive Alan McCarthy to retire early at 50 years old because the Tories didn't like him.
That is your money and my money.
Whether you like the binmen or not, this administration cannot be trusted to act in an honourable way and cutting people's money is not right when at the same time the council is happy to spend it to get rid of someone they don't want to work with.
I wonder if the proposed cut in salaries is to re-coup the money paid out to McCarthy.

It would be great if we could vote out the faceless Town Hall mandarins who advise councillors. They seem to give advice which is designed to affect the workers at point of delivery...its these workers we pay to carry out our services but they are undermined by the bureaucrats so its no wonder they take action like today.

bertnz wrote:

minimee wrote: It is a horrible job and should be well paid,teachers and ta's should be well paid too-the dustmen should not have to pay for the councils mistakes on pay structure,good luck to them,it was a great protest,,beep beep,,

HELLO... Teachers = Binmen oh yes.. should be the same pay... shouldnt they !!! 3 4 years at uni = Teachers 3 4 days qualifed binman.... IDIOT

I number a good few teachers amongst my friends and aquatances, similarly bin men most of whom are well educated people.
both do an equally important job although I would notice somewhat sooner that my binmen are not working.
Both are entitled to respect, the right to protest and to get a reasonable wage for a days work, just the same as you and I, both are payed by the public, if you like I will compare my binmen to my doctor, I havnt seen him for a year or two, my binmen luckily I see weekly, havnt needed the doctor.
All you brighton people moan about the rubbish and refuse situation in the city, remember the binmen do what they are told by their bosses who are a private company working under the lowest acceptable tender to make the biggest possible profit, try supporting your binmen for once they are nice fellers only trying to make a reasonable living and dont be churlish that they popped down the road in the works vehicles so what.

Lazy so's and so's they need to get out and do some work before the lid is blown on the little side lines they run, I wish i finished work each day at lunchtime

Stripes wrote:
Time for B&HCC to call their bluff. The attitude that they can't face disciplinary procedures because that would mean wild cat strikes and streets stacked up with rubbish, is unacceptable. Dismiss each and everyone of them who decided to break the law today by blocking a public highway as well as unauthorised use of a work vehicle and I will be happy for the council to throw public money at an agency to replace them untilthe posts are recruited to.

This has been going on for years, its 'the weasel' trade union chap on a power trip whipping up a group of low IQ manual workers in to believing they are worth upwards of £25k a year. Pathetic and a joke.

Show some balls councillors.

What a load of tripe. The G.M.B. are doing exactly as they should be, protecting their members contracts, terms and conditions. I'd love to see one of these binmen on £25k a year too. I worked from that yard for 14 years and I didn't know anyone on anywhere near that salary. Good luck to the men and women fighting for their pay, Walking 13 miles a day in all weathers and trawling through other peoples rubbish is a task most of these people on here wouldn't even think about doing, let alone for what the council is asking you to do it for. I feel for you and your families.

I'm not sure what the proposed Chief Exec of B&H Council is proposed to get on their salary, but it's somewhere between £170,000-£250,000 are the figures I have heard.

The BBC Director General gets under £900,000 p/a now whether he's worth that is a debate all of its own. But is the chief exec of a small city really worth at least 1/6th of what the entire nation pays for the man at the top of the BBC pile?

Doesn't sound right to me.

Just like the private sector, there are some people doing difficult, hard, manual or demanding jobs for little money at all, whilst fat cats at the top of the boy's club table have a few meetings here and there.

Someone doing a binman job for £14k a year supporting a family is not realistic. That's about £900 per calendar month after tax. Even if you rent that's pretty hard going for a family...

So for some of these guys, I do have a bit of sympathy. What I don't get is why other LA's seem to get bin collection about right, but B&H seems to have problem after problem... It has been going on for years, when I lived in Brighton, it was hit and miss then!

Good luck to the bin men. I think the majority of right minded people will support them.

To the goon who'd be happy to do the job for £15k a year - How will you feel when a bunch of folk pitch up and offer to do YOUR job for £9k pa or £8k or £6k? I suggest if you can’t find a job now, even in this current climate paying £15k a year, you aren’t looking very hard.

Most of us have the right to strike. It’s a right which our parents, grandparents & great-grandparents fought tooth and nail for and it should be cherished and protected. Lose this, and we're all up Shoot (sp) Creek.

Good luck Bin Men!!!

This is like something out of a 1980s loony left London borough not Brighton 2009.

How is it every other council manages a normal service except Brighton? I thought the Conservatives stood for efficiency and smooth services. I thought the Greens stood for non-polluting our streets.

Why aren't they learning from how others run their services without the fumes, the expense and the effect on us residents.

oh dear wrote:

Fight Back wrote:

oh dear wrote:

Fight Back wrote: The council shouldn't have paid the compensation money anyway. Only a fool would think you can bracket such varying jobs as being "equal". Instead the council should have spent some of the money on hiring decent lawyers to fight any claims. The binmen aren't in the wrong here - the council and the workers who jumped on the bandwagon looking for a quick buck are.

A quick buck?! Yeah-just like all cases of overcoming inequality (based on gender, age, sexuality, ethnicity...) I'm sure this was a flimsy, quicky, easy process of no real value or meaning. There is a wider context to this-it really isn't just about money, or a "quick buck". Please think about it harder.

It is a quick buck rather than an "equality" payment. Firstly the workers involved took their job at the rate of pay that was being offered. If they didn't feel this was enough or that there was some issue with the pay being unequal they shouldn't have taken the job. Secondly, the measure of equality in this case is nothing of the sort. TAs do not do the same job as a binman. The TAs should be paid the going rate for a TA with no comparision against another completely different job. The fact that the binmen were paid more than them is absolutely not relevent. If the TAs were underpaid for THEIR role then that is a completely different matter and has nothing to do with the pay of the binmen. With your last statement you're clearly a TA so of course you're going to accept a cheque for thousands of pounds even though you shouldn't be entitled to it.

I'm not a TA; I'm not in any job to be in a position for an Equal Pay settlement. My understand was that certain jobs, which have historically been filled by women (and been associated as more of a female role), such as TAs have been consistently paid less then those undertaken by men, despite there not necessarily being any higher skill set required for the higher paid jobs. Isn't that why it has been termed as an equal pay settlement? This is why I am saying that nothing about this has been quick as far as I am aware, as such equalities issues have been years in the making. What is your understanding of the issue (and please be serious, as I am genuinely interested)?

My understanding is that legislation has been passed to provide equal pay ( as someone else pointed out it's linked to an EU directive ). Because of either bad wording or poor interpretation councils have decided this means equality across jobs of a similar skill set. The skill set for a binman is entirely different to that needed for a TA. Yet someone in their wisdom believes they are similar. What SHOULD have happened is that people regardless of their colour, gender, sexualality etc should be paid equally for the SAME job. So a male TA would get the same as a female TA with the same experience. Only a complete idiot would think you could lump differenr jobs together and call them similar - unfortaunately we live in an age where our leaders ( of all political persuasions ) have lost any common sense and intelligence thay had to think these things through to the logical conclusion. All they had to do was ensure equality for people doing the SAME job and no court in the land would have then awarded against them. Instead they spend millions of OUR money by ginving it to people who have no right to it and then punish the binmen. If they need to save money then ALL council employees should be have their pay cut and councillors should lose their allowances. A contract is a contract and so the binmen shouldn't get their pay cut. I'm sure if I told Mary Mears that I was changing my contract with the council and only paying half my council tax they would take me to court but unfortunately the woman is stupid and comes from a very dodgy family !!!

For Every Sprinkle I Find wrote:
GET TO WORK, YOU LAZY IDIOTS. Fed up of you pretending you're so hard done by. YOU'RE NOT! YOU HAVE IT EASY! No stop crying about it and GET. TO. WORK. No-one has any sympathy for you.

Couldn't agree more!You would be hard pressed to find lazier workers than this lot.The reason these "unhappy employees"don't go looking for alternative employment is that they are all so unemployable!

Fight Back wrote:

oh dear wrote:

Fight Back wrote:

oh dear wrote:

Fight Back wrote: The council shouldn't have paid the compensation money anyway. Only a fool would think you can bracket such varying jobs as being "equal". Instead the council should have spent some of the money on hiring decent lawyers to fight any claims. The binmen aren't in the wrong here - the council and the workers who jumped on the bandwagon looking for a quick buck are.

A quick buck?! Yeah-just like all cases of overcoming inequality (based on gender, age, sexuality, ethnicity...) I'm sure this was a flimsy, quicky, easy process of no real value or meaning. There is a wider context to this-it really isn't just about money, or a "quick buck". Please think about it harder.

It is a quick buck rather than an "equality" payment. Firstly the workers involved took their job at the rate of pay that was being offered. If they didn't feel this was enough or that there was some issue with the pay being unequal they shouldn't have taken the job. Secondly, the measure of equality in this case is nothing of the sort. TAs do not do the same job as a binman. The TAs should be paid the going rate for a TA with no comparision against another completely different job. The fact that the binmen were paid more than them is absolutely not relevent. If the TAs were underpaid for THEIR role then that is a completely different matter and has nothing to do with the pay of the binmen. With your last statement you're clearly a TA so of course you're going to accept a cheque for thousands of pounds even though you shouldn't be entitled to it.

I'm not a TA; I'm not in any job to be in a position for an Equal Pay settlement. My understand was that certain jobs, which have historically been filled by women (and been associated as more of a female role), such as TAs have been consistently paid less then those undertaken by men, despite there not necessarily being any higher skill set required for the higher paid jobs. Isn't that why it has been termed as an equal pay settlement? This is why I am saying that nothing about this has been quick as far as I am aware, as such equalities issues have been years in the making. What is your understanding of the issue (and please be serious, as I am genuinely interested)?

My understanding is that legislation has been passed to provide equal pay ( as someone else pointed out it's linked to an EU directive ). Because of either bad wording or poor interpretation councils have decided this means equality across jobs of a similar skill set. The skill set for a binman is entirely different to that needed for a TA. Yet someone in their wisdom believes they are similar. What SHOULD have happened is that people regardless of their colour, gender, sexualality etc should be paid equally for the SAME job. So a male TA would get the same as a female TA with the same experience. Only a complete idiot would think you could lump differenr jobs together and call them similar - unfortaunately we live in an age where our leaders ( of all political persuasions ) have lost any common sense and intelligence thay had to think these things through to the logical conclusion. All they had to do was ensure equality for people doing the SAME job and no court in the land would have then awarded against them. Instead they spend millions of OUR money by ginving it to people who have no right to it and then punish the binmen. If they need to save money then ALL council employees should be have their pay cut and councillors should lose their allowances. A contract is a contract and so the binmen shouldn't get their pay cut. I'm sure if I told Mary Mears that I was changing my contract with the council and only paying half my council tax they would take me to court but unfortunately the woman is stupid and comes from a very dodgy family !!!

If you actually knew about the legislation, it's actually about work of equal VALUE, not the same work. An evaluation system is used to grade jobs based on knowledge, skills, accountability and a number of other things. Jobs that score the same should be paid the same, and enables you to compare completely different jobs.

I actually calculate that if the bin people earn £20.000 they probably bring home with deductions including tax national insurance and pension contributions about £15.000

Can I asked would the teachers with there long holidays, librarians and other council employees go out and do there work in all types of weather hot and cold at unsociable hours of the day and at the same time risk catching bad diseases from peoples rubbish and risk being knock down by speeding motorists or god forbid being crush by the machine they work… I think not.

And don’t blame the bin men for this mess. Sorry for that pun. Blame the over paid council bureaucrats who implement the pay structure in the first place.

I like to see a £120.000 council pen pusher do the same work for a week let alone for a year.

Yours faithfully
Mr Bin Over Laden

Oh dear, here we go again. I think those who throw insults at council workers, whatever job they have from Chief Exec to Teaching Assistant, to Refuse Collector should gather a better understanding of the situation. The truth is, the Unions (including the GMB, to which many if not most Refuse collectors belong) signed up to an agreement called the ‘Single Status Agreement’. Mark Turner (GMB, who is probably paid handsomely) has been part of the group at the Council working on this agreement for over 10 years – attending hundreds of meetings on it. Union representatives sit on every Job Evaluation panel – they are involved in deciding which jobs are of equal value and therefore paid on the same grade. Everyone knows that the union/s have protected those (mostly men) who work at the refuse depot for years, that’s why their pay is higher than many other council workers (mostly women), its why they get additional pay for historically agreed but outdated practices. This is all old hat union stuff that simply has to change – they know it and anyone with common sense knows it. Once the Council has finally settled this – there’ll be a fair and even playing field that meets Equal Pay Legislation and the greedy ‘no win no fee’ solicitors observing from the sidelines won’t be able to hold the Council (and by that I mean we, the tax payers) to ransom as they’ve done in the North East – costing a dozen Councils well in excess of £100 million pounds in court awards. P.S. I live on £12, 985 a year.

Why do bin-men have to start at 5am and what time do they finish?

Same old ***KHEADS ranting on about a job and a dispute they nothing about.

Asbo wrote:
Same old ***KHEADS ranting on about a job and a dispute they nothing about.

so tell me why do they have to start at 5 and what time do they finish - this is your chance to inform me (I genuinely would like to know).

Just put yourselves in my shoes. I have two children aged 6 and 3, have a mortgage, my utility bills have gone through the roof, my weekly food shopping bill has increased, no extra hours at my job and now my husband is facing what might seem to be a small pay cut to some but it is a huge cut to us. My husband and alot of his collegues are not uneducated nor are they scum. He is just doing a job that not many others would get up at 5.30am every morning to do. Why do some of you who have made not very nice comments think you have the right to call the people who clear your waste 'lazy' 'scum'etc. At least they are trying to pay their way through life unlike some others who think its ok to 'sponge'from benefit hand outs. Going out in all weathers, clearing everyones rubbish and dealing with some rude members of the public, who think they are above the binmen on a day to day basis or working in a dry warm rewarding enviroment with approximatly 12 weeks holiday per year. I know what job i would rather do. It is not a nice job, so please next time when you put the dustmen down put yourselves in their and their famlies shoes and have some respect. thank you

binmans wife wrote:
Just put yourselves in my shoes. I have two children aged 6 and 3, have a mortgage, my utility bills have gone through the roof, my weekly food shopping bill has increased, no extra hours at my job and now my husband is facing what might seem to be a small pay cut to some but it is a huge cut to us. My husband and alot of his collegues are not uneducated nor are they scum. He is just doing a job that not many others would get up at 5.30am every morning to do. Why do some of you who have made not very nice comments think you have the right to call the people who clear your waste 'lazy' 'scum'etc. At least they are trying to pay their way through life unlike some others who think its ok to 'sponge'from benefit hand outs. Going out in all weathers, clearing everyones rubbish and dealing with some rude members of the public, who think they are above the binmen on a day to day basis or working in a dry warm rewarding enviroment with approximatly 12 weeks holiday per year. I know what job i would rather do. It is not a nice job, so please next time when you put the dustmen down put yourselves in their and their famlies shoes and have some respect. thank you

so tell me why do they have to start at 5 and what time do they finish - this is your chance to inform me (I genuinely would like to know).

alyn, southwick wrote:

binmans wife wrote: Just put yourselves in my shoes. I have two children aged 6 and 3, have a mortgage, my utility bills have gone through the roof, my weekly food shopping bill has increased, no extra hours at my job and now my husband is facing what might seem to be a small pay cut to some but it is a huge cut to us. My husband and alot of his collegues are not uneducated nor are they scum. He is just doing a job that not many others would get up at 5.30am every morning to do. Why do some of you who have made not very nice comments think you have the right to call the people who clear your waste 'lazy' 'scum'etc. At least they are trying to pay their way through life unlike some others who think its ok to 'sponge'from benefit hand outs. Going out in all weathers, clearing everyones rubbish and dealing with some rude members of the public, who think they are above the binmen on a day to day basis or working in a dry warm rewarding enviroment with approximatly 12 weeks holiday per year. I know what job i would rather do. It is not a nice job, so please next time when you put the dustmen down put yourselves in their and their famlies shoes and have some respect. thank you

so tell me why do they have to start at 5 and what time do they finish - this is your chance to inform me (I genuinely would like to know).

Completely agree with you Binmans wife, rain wind or snow the workers have to go and do a days work, whereas other jobs Ie: builders like myself and other manual jobs, take a day out if weather is rubbish, and they don't get to take breaks all day long, so a pay cut is awful, none deserve it, but must admit one binmen who does my road is a lazy g*t, last week I had one extra sack on top of my bin, and instead of throwing it into the lorry, he put it on the floor, the recyclers do a great job though, very efficient, and Alyn I reckon about 2-3pm finish for most.

So do I agree with binmens wife. There are a lot of nasty people posting comments here who have pointless jobs and do not do anything as important to this city as collecting rubbish, recycling and cleaning our street. We all notice when the binmen and women stop their work....yet no one notices when the bureaucrats stop work, or half the people posting on this board - why ? Because their jobs are just not as important.

lets put some things straight firstly these bin men are taking this action because thew council want to reduce the wages that have already been agreed and have been paid over the years these men and women have mortages to pay do you think the banks will reduce the repayments once the wage cuts come in no .2nd point the leader of this coucil has been paid over 38k expences so a unskilled leader is entitled to 38k but the cityclean staff are not entitled to a decent wage again surley this must be wrong 3rd point to the graduate that moans he didnt earn 15k on his first year after leaving uni maybe he should be thinking who was paying the cost of his studies by way of income tax so lets all remember these workers are not asking for huge pay rises they are purley asking to be allowed to be paid the same next year as they are this year so next time your bin or recycling is collected say hello to them and give them your support also if you are out and about in the city say hi to the guys keeping these streets clean

I didn't say they stared at 5am, i said he gets up at 5.30 everyday. They start at just before 7am and finish at 3pm. Long enough hours for a manual job i think.

In my experience the ones that call us LAZY are usually the lazy ones themselves!!!!!! The ones that can’t be bothered to place there bin on the boundary of their property, the ones that feel hard done by our changing world.

Us bin men start all different times ranging from 6 am – 7 am and usually work their 37.5 hour week. We do collect in all weathers and have to put up with peoples temper tantrums on a daily bases. I tell u what I would take a pay cut for 12 weeks holiday a year!!!!

Everyone’s job is different, from a refuse collector to a teaching assistant. We all have our pro’s and cons in our different industries so our wage should be different.

I used to support teach when I was a student 10 years ago at a college up north!! The job is alot easier as I was teaching mature students. Teachers in ours schools today face a upheaval as the abuse and threats and violence they recieve off the pupils.

The single status agreement that was agreed with by our union 10 years was on the basis that everyone would gain and not lose!! This is not the case!! Its a shambles due to bad planning by the council officials. (as per usual).

A binman - I think you’ve just confirmed most people’s suspicions about how the unions are approaching the Single Status Agreement. The GMB obviously told everyone that ‘everyone would get a pay rise’ – clearly a typical union tactic!! The Single Status Agreement was NEVER EVER been about giving everyone a pay rise! It’s a shambles because there was never any central money available from the government for the agreement (unlike the Agenda for Change NHS deal and the Higher Education deal – all of these about Job Evaluation and Equal pay for work of Equal value).

Tezzboy – I think the Refuse collectors will get the same next year as this year, and the same the year after too – no doubt the Unions and Council will negotiate another round of pay protection as part of the deal. But sooner or later the law must be adhered to.

If a Refuse collector wishes to work in a warm and cosy environment with school holidays (for which TAs don’t actually get paid by the way), there are plenty of vacancies for such jobs. I can’t remember the last time I saw a vacancy for a Refuse collector in Brighton – it seems to be a popular job and no-one leaves.

A binman - I think you’ve just confirmed most people’s suspicions about how the unions are approaching the Single Status Agreement. The GMB obviously told everyone that ‘everyone would get a pay rise’ – clearly a typical union tactic!! The Single Status Agreement was NEVER EVER been about giving everyone a pay rise! It’s a shambles because there was never any central money available from the government for the agreement (unlike the Agenda for Change NHS deal and the Higher Education deal – all of these about Job Evaluation and Equal pay for work of Equal value).

Tezzboy – I think the Refuse collectors will get the same next year as this year, and the same the year after too – no doubt the Unions and Council will negotiate another round of pay protection as part of the deal. But sooner or later the law must be adhered to.

If a Refuse collector wishes to work in a warm and cosy environment with school holidays (for which TAs don’t actually get paid by the way), there are plenty of vacancies for such jobs. I can’t remember the last time I saw a vacancy for a Refuse collector in Brighton – it seems to be a popular job and no-one leaves.

To the single status agreement, it was agreed by all local authorities and trade unions on a national basis, not just locally to us.

It’s not the union’s that have changed the agreement it’s the authorities, the so call historic deal was signed back in 1997 by a conservative government.

The agreement is about making women’s pay equal to men. So in our case we have one refuse collector who is female but she is paid the same as us men, so the single status agreement should affect us at all.

Sorry to my last message the last sentence should of read .... so the single status agreement shouldn't affect us at all.

abinman wrote:
To the single status agreement, it was agreed by all local authorities and trade unions on a national basis, not just locally to us.

It’s not the union’s that have changed the agreement it’s the authorities, the so call historic deal was signed back in 1997 by a conservative government.

The agreement is about making women’s pay equal to men. So in our case we have one refuse collector who is female but she is paid the same as us men, so the single status agreement should affect us at all.

And there you have the crux of the issue - equal pay for the SAME job. Only an idiot would think that librians, TAs and binmen do similar jobs - those idiots are currently Gordon Brown, Tony Blair, Mary Mears and Geoffry Theobald !!!!!!!

I want to expand on what I said before to give a better position of what I think. (I've adjusted this in line with my last question - but still don't understand why they have to start so early; they only work a standard working day.)

NO ONE should have to take a pay cut (with the exception of large organisation executives, such as Bankers and perhaps chief executives);
not even the OVER-PAID, such as bin men .
HOWEVER bin-men are not only OVER-PAID they also don't do their job properly..
#It is no longer such a dirty, arduous (so it makes no difference they only work a standard working day) and dangerous job - even my kids recognise that, now we have wheelie bins (protection from dangerous and dirty waste, and the wheels and dustcart take the strain. (Carers have to do far more dirty work - you try changing a standing, struggling adult's soiled incontinence pad!)
#Yes they go out in bad weather so they should be compensated a little, but still not paid more than TA's (a TA is a more skilled job, even if some bin-men are just as clever; TA's also get much undeserved flack from their pupils and parents).
#when they're bank holidays and strikes B&H Refuse staff work extra days (i.e. weekends), to catch up so they're in a no lose situation, though they won't be paid, they will for the days they do extra after to catch up (I like Adur's system better, it was a little confusing when I first moved over the 'border', but it's not so bad now - at least they wouldn't benefit from not working)
#I do think bin-men are lazy (I'll explain why in a minute - repeating what I have said previously) and "Abinman", I'm not lazy, I often work 12 hour shifts looking after adults who often have behavioural problems, which makes working with them difficult and arduos(and have done over 24 hour shifts in the past when necessary - with little sleep; not the ideal but very occasionally necessary:
- why I think bin men are lazy:
1. they now at most only have to take and return wheelie bins from the front of people's property, yet I have often, having taken the bin out to the front, had to retrieve it from half way up the road (and seen other people's bins left the same - and taken other people's bins back as well, when the bin man should have done it) and still done it for those not able to retrieve it themselves in my current job;
2. As I've said before "I've even gone behind them and picked up rubbish they've dropped while stuck in a jam behind their truck (what an idiot am I.)"
3. They seem to not work as often as they can;
4. Lots of reports in Argus recently of bins NOT being collected in some roads

Fight Back.
Yeah, some else knows the agreement on single status. Unfortunately I have to disagree with you on Tony Blair and Gordon Brown.

Tony Blair did quite a lot for this country, with the introduction of the minimum wage, working tax credits, the good Friday agreement, even the way he went down the diplomatic route on the Iraq war issue, rallying support and all parties where in favour of it, the boosting of the economy and many many more.

With Gordon Brown ok, he hasn’t much charisma, but bailing the banks out, did us a great deal, so the banks wouldn’t pass the cost onto us for their stupidity. The recession is not fault of the governments but the fault of the banks again down to their stupidity.

As regards to Mary Mears and Geoffrey Theobald, I can’t comment on as it could affect my employment. To be honest I don’t know enough about them as I’m not a Brighton Resident.
Alyn.
I didn’t say that everyone who called us lazy is lazy themselves, I said is usually lazy themselves, so please don’t take offence.

In a previous comment I said that yes there are lazy people in our workforce, just like any workforce, but I assure you my crew and I are not lazy, we have a high level of gratitude of what we do by our residents and we give a good service and we are classed of one of the best crews in Brighton and Hove. If we make the mess we clear it up, our residents usually see us on our hands and knees. Also I said in another comment that it’s luck of the draw who gets the lazy collectors. Some spoil it for others.

Due to the reports in The Argus about missed collections, it was due to the rounds changes implemented by the council and some rounds couldn’t be completed in time. As I’m aware this issue had been resolved.

As to starting early, I cant answer that question, I’m not to sure why. It could have been to do with a traffic issue getting main roads completed by rush hour?? I know I would like to start at 9 and finish at 5 ha ha.

abinman wrote:
Fight Back. Yeah, some else knows the agreement on single status. Unfortunately I have to disagree with you on Tony Blair and Gordon Brown. Tony Blair did quite a lot for this country, with the introduction of the minimum wage, working tax credits, the good Friday agreement, even the way he went down the diplomatic route on the Iraq war issue, rallying support and all parties where in favour of it, the boosting of the economy and many many more. With Gordon Brown ok, he hasn’t much charisma, but bailing the banks out, did us a great deal, so the banks wouldn’t pass the cost onto us for their stupidity. The recession is not fault of the governments but the fault of the banks again down to their stupidity. As regards to Mary Mears and Geoffrey Theobald, I can’t comment on as it could affect my employment. To be honest I don’t know enough about them as I’m not a Brighton Resident. Alyn. I didn’t say that everyone who called us lazy is lazy themselves, I said is usually lazy themselves, so please don’t take offence. In a previous comment I said that yes there are lazy people in our workforce, just like any workforce, but I assure you my crew and I are not lazy, we have a high level of gratitude of what we do by our residents and we give a good service and we are classed of one of the best crews in Brighton and Hove. If we make the mess we clear it up, our residents usually see us on our hands and knees. Also I said in another comment that it’s luck of the draw who gets the lazy collectors. Some spoil it for others. Due to the reports in The Argus about missed collections, it was due to the rounds changes implemented by the council and some rounds couldn’t be completed in time. As I’m aware this issue had been resolved. As to starting early, I cant answer that question, I’m not to sure why. It could have been to do with a traffic issue getting main roads completed by rush hour?? I know I would like to start at 9 and finish at 5 ha ha.

thank you for your polite and considered reply 'abinman'. i hope you don't end up losing pay

single status or equal pay is purley about paying workers the same rate of pay for doing work of equal value the problem is that this coucil is trying to do it without having to meet the cost of impementing it by cutting the wages of the bin men and street cleaning staff rather than giving the teaching assistants a rise there are other workers in this coucil who will be having their wages cut if the argus report that the coucil have plans to sack 821 workers is correct as I can asure you there are not 821 staff employed at cityclean so to the rest of the coucil employees who are going to lose money get in touch with the union or the reps at cotyclean and offer your support in what is going to be a long hard battle with the coucil bosses to reverse this desicion because to sit back and leave it to cityclean union members is wrong they need you by their side in this fight

Alyn, Thanks for your support!!

Tezzboy, There are 400 employees at cityclean, approx 150 at cityparks and the rest we are not sure about to make up the 823 workers that are going to lose.

Every worker at cityclean is behind the union, helping us fight to protect our pay! There will more strike action in the future and as I’m aware it will be all official and legal as we have had a ballot already and we all are in favour. At present most crews are not working to rule to enable completion of their rounds. This will change in the future when our ballot is confirmed for official action.
The whole workforce is united as one which this has been the first time in ages!

So all I can say to the residents of Brighton and Hove please bare with us on this issue.

Cut the council management pay. Like them or not, the bin men do an important job. While the office jockeys sit around in air conditioned offices playing with expensive toys or trying to bed their PAs and in all cases trying to do as little work as possible. I`m sure they don`t need to be on 35K or whatever. The council would save far far more by slashing these numpties thean playing around with bin men`s livelihoods.