Brighton and Hove could be crippled by strikes after pay talks collapse (From The Argus)
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Brighton and Hove could be crippled by strikes after pay talks collapse
10:30am Wednesday 30th September 2009 in
Brighton and Hove has been warned to prepare for "the worst strikes since the 70s" after the breakdown of pay talks between the council and trade unions after only 11 minutes.
Union leaders have given Brighton and Hove City Council just one day to present a new offer to 1,200 workers threatened with pay cuts before they start industrial action.
The move has brought to a head tensions which have been building for six months, since council plans to slash wages by up to £8,000 a year each emerged.
If no new deal has been presented to the GMB union by midnight tonight it will serve official notice of its intention to ballot about 800 member binmen, street-cleaners and parks staff on possible strikes.
It will be presented to the council's new chief executive John Barradell in his first day of taking up office.
GMB branch secretary Mark Turner said the latest meeting had broken down after just 11 minutes.
He said: "If we don't get a better proposal the GMB will instigate a formal industrial action ballot leading to massive disruption in the city, unseen since the 70s."
The 1970s was the decade of strikes, electricity shortages and piles of rotting rubbish on the street.
A Brighton and Hove City Council spokesman said its objective was to implement a fair pay structure that complied with equal pay legislation with the minimum possible impact on staff.
He said: "We have been negotiating since July and negotiations continue. We made a second and improved offer at today’s meeting and heard the views of the unions on that offer.
"We will reflect on those views and do further work in advance of the next meeting, which is timetabled for October 6.
“The negotiations are, in our view, important for resolving this difficult issue and they still have some weeks left to run.”
Comments(48)
tinkywinky
says...
11:37am Wed 30 Sep 09
It takes minutes just to load up a page, or times out, most days.
Sort your server out Argus.
Special
says...
11:41am Wed 30 Sep 09
Fine, there's plenty of people overqualified & looking to work, treat any strikers like they've not come into work & replace them. Meantime I'll 'opt-out' of paying council tax while any services are interrupted.
Chris in Brighton
says...
11:52am Wed 30 Sep 09
Fight Back
says...
1:04pm Wed 30 Sep 09
Darling2
says...
2:00pm Wed 30 Sep 09
Council have been bloody minded about progress, and the legislators clearly dont think through the consequences of new legislation first; so strikes are inevitable when Council persist in being so inept. One days notice is more than enough after several months 'negotiating.' Resolution has to occurr and if itsn't achieved within several months as is the case, then a turn of the screw helps to foucs minds on achieving resolution.
Our contemptable political classes of all shades have had this coming for decades. Intransigence is no longer an option. Bring on the real fight.
smegbuster
says...
2:03pm Wed 30 Sep 09
For Every Sprinkle I Find
says...
2:13pm Wed 30 Sep 09
salty_pete
says...
2:16pm Wed 30 Sep 09
tonyinbrighton
says...
2:17pm Wed 30 Sep 09
jonathon
says...
2:22pm Wed 30 Sep 09
Darling2
says...
2:38pm Wed 30 Sep 09
jonathon wrote:Really? I dont see a queue of unemployed people looking for a shyte employer, do you? Why would there be when decent employers exist that value staff and treat them reasonably?
If these people do not want to work and prefer to go on strike, sack them and give their jobs to the unemployed who want to work.
BHCC needs to up its game dramatically.
Just remember these strikes are avoidable.
Granny
says...
2:45pm Wed 30 Sep 09
Cass
says...
3:02pm Wed 30 Sep 09
chrisbrighton
says...
8:32pm Wed 30 Sep 09
35whatever
says...
9:38pm Wed 30 Sep 09
davyboy
says...
9:42pm Wed 30 Sep 09
Special wrote:good idea. what on earth did the council come up with to make this meeting so short? probably, ' there's no money, so tough'. you are right though, there will be queues to fill the vacancies, and then all the sacked workers will be moaning about being unemployed. well, tough. anyone who strikes during a recession must want their bumps feeling. as someone else said, it is absenteeism, and should be treated as such. the unions MUST realise that there is only a limited amount of money, and if they are offered 2% then that should be jumped at. is there a figure that the union have said they will accept?likelihood is they are looking for 5-6 %.
Talks failing after 11 minutes, and a 24 hour deadline before striking. During a recession. Seriously?!
Fine, there's plenty of people overqualified & looking to work, treat any strikers like they've not come into work & replace them. Meantime I'll 'opt-out' of paying council tax while any services are interrupted.
stan bailey
says...
9:50pm Wed 30 Sep 09
Cass wrote:I totally agree
Are the councillors taking a cut in pay also?? If not, why not? What's good for one section of employees has to be good for all others. Councillors are afterall paid by the people who pay their council taxes.
binmans wife
says...
9:50pm Wed 30 Sep 09
TheInsider
says...
9:52pm Wed 30 Sep 09
Really, would any of you be happy to take a pay cut after years of an agreed salary?
However, Mr Turner should think carefully before punishing residents with union action, as we are the very people who pay the salaries of his members and it is not our fault. He needs resdents' support for this action to succeed.
BN1
says...
10:17pm Wed 30 Sep 09
Auld School
says...
10:41pm Wed 30 Sep 09
greeg
says...
11:06pm Wed 30 Sep 09
binmans wife wrote:Horrible job?,they don't even get their hands dirty these days and they're finished at 1 o'clock,come on!.Also,my mortgage is based on my wages,but it's also based on other things,like what would happen if i started earning less.
Its not the fact of not wanting to work its a case of fighting to keep a reasonable salary for a horrible job. The pay cuts they are talking about are unreasonable especially as it effects the ones at the lowest end of the pay brackett. I can understand freezing pay but to taking a pay cut is not fair. What about the people that have taken out mortgages based on their earnings, how are they going to keep up their mortgage repayments and ever increasing utility bills.
MarcoPolo
says...
11:26pm Wed 30 Sep 09
Snow Fox
says...
11:33pm Wed 30 Sep 09
oh dear
says...
11:42pm Wed 30 Sep 09
chrisbrighton wrote:What?!
Council workers should think themselves lucky that they have a secure job and a gold plated final salary pension scheme...if they think that they could do better in the real world then they should resign and give it a try. Simple
rayellerton
says...
5:00am Thu 1 Oct 09
Tye
says...
7:37am Thu 1 Oct 09
Karswell wrote:I appreciate your POV, but really is getting paid millions to sell on debt that will never be paid whilst bankrupting banks even countries any better.
Striking is cutting off your nose to spite your face. If I dared to strike in my job I would be fired on the spot. Striking is absenteeism and should not be tolerated.
Senior council staff being paid half a million when they decide to resign is also wrong
Surely somewhere in the middle is best
The ghost of Osama bin there
says...
8:23am Thu 1 Oct 09
I'm self employed - have been for years. If I don't work I don't get paid. There's no such thing as unemployment benefit or a pension for me.
If you don't like the pay or working conditions - leave and get another job.
If the council have a shortfall in the number of binmen, say, and can't fill the vacancies because the salary is too low, they will have to increase it. It's called market forces.
If the strike happens I would compel all those on unemployment benefit to fill the vacancies with immediate effect.
Karswell
says...
9:23am Thu 1 Oct 09
Theforce
says...
10:56am Thu 1 Oct 09
salty_pete
says...
11:10am Thu 1 Oct 09
The ghost of Osama bin there wrote:Unfortunately "market forces" have been taken out of this equation by the implementation of Equality Legislation. This is another example of the unintended consequences of much of the legislation introduced by Nu-Labour.
I don't care what the reasons are. In my book if you stop work the employer should have the right to sack you immediately and replace you. I'm self employed - have been for years. If I don't work I don't get paid. There's no such thing as unemployment benefit or a pension for me. If you don't like the pay or working conditions - leave and get another job. If the council have a shortfall in the number of binmen, say, and can't fill the vacancies because the salary is too low, they will have to increase it. It's called market forces. If the strike happens I would compel all those on unemployment benefit to fill the vacancies with immediate effect.
CeeBee
says...
11:32am Thu 1 Oct 09
clearbluesky
says...
11:55am Thu 1 Oct 09
Fight Back
says...
12:50pm Thu 1 Oct 09
greeg wrote:So fo arguements sake lets assume a binman earns 32k ( I'm most don't ) then they are being asked ( sorry told ) to take a 25% cut. You're seriously saying, when you took your mortgage out, that you borrowed on the theory you could see a quarter of your salary taken away ???? Sorry I don't believe you. Very few people could afford to lose 25% on their income and still pay for all of their commitments. Prices and taxes have risen significantly in the last 18 months and pay rises have been well below inflation. It's immoral for the council to do this but when was the last time we had moral, honest, open and intelligent councillors or politicians ?
binmans wife wrote:Horrible job?,they don't even get their hands dirty these days and they're finished at 1 o'clock,come on!.Also,my mortgage is based on my wages,but it's also based on other things,like what would happen if i started earning less.
Its not the fact of not wanting to work its a case of fighting to keep a reasonable salary for a horrible job. The pay cuts they are talking about are unreasonable especially as it effects the ones at the lowest end of the pay brackett. I can understand freezing pay but to taking a pay cut is not fair. What about the people that have taken out mortgages based on their earnings, how are they going to keep up their mortgage repayments and ever increasing utility bills.
raywelly
says...
1:05pm Thu 1 Oct 09
Dizd
says...
1:24pm Thu 1 Oct 09
HoveHound
says...
2:48pm Thu 1 Oct 09
For Every Sprinkle I Find wrote:Calm down Mrs Thatcher. How would you like it if you were told you were getting an 8K pay cut and if you dared disagree you would be fired and replaced?? Im sure there isnt a very large queue to handle peoples rubbish for 12K a year. Its a pretty rough deal, considering a bin man is probably paid about 20K if hes/shes lucky, so to take an 8K paycut leaves them with a pretty poor wage.
Screw the unions. Fire the staff that strike. Start again with those who DO want to work.
The council have probably already made alot redundant now we have these hidious black bins so where is this saved money going? Its not a reduction in council tax for the people who now have to carry their rubbish half way up the street! Back pockets of the councillors probably.
If people didnt strike and stand up against this injustice then where would we be?
The ghost of Osama bin there
says...
4:47pm Thu 1 Oct 09
Simple, I'd leave and get another job.
oh dear
says...
5:48pm Thu 1 Oct 09
Have any pay cuts been proposed from the 'higher up' positions?
HoveHound
says...
5:53pm Thu 1 Oct 09
Claude Back
says...
8:36pm Thu 1 Oct 09
The ghost of Osama bin there wrote:You're simple all right.
"How would you like it if you were told you were getting an 8K pay cut and if you dared disagree you would be fired and replaced?"
Simple, I'd leave and get another job.
Stop thinking you're superior because you're self-employed. Your comments are churlish, simplistic and tinged with what Jean-Paul Sartre would call 'nothingness'.
davyboy
says...
9:25pm Thu 1 Oct 09
rayellerton wrote:that is the best comment on here.
instead of slashing the pay of the people who actually DO the jobs we pay for, why not get rid of all the useless non-jobs and office layabouts that litter our council?
greeg
says...
10:48pm Thu 1 Oct 09
Fight Back wrote:I didn't factor in a wage cut but i did think about what would happen if there was a substantial hike in interest rates,comes to the same thing.Also,can you enlighten me as to why throwing black bags into the back of a truck and pushing wheelie bins is worth £32000 a year?I'm struggling to understand it and i think you'll struggle to explain it.
greeg wrote:So fo arguements sake lets assume a binman earns 32k ( I'm most don't ) then they are being asked ( sorry told ) to take a 25% cut. You're seriously saying, when you took your mortgage out, that you borrowed on the theory you could see a quarter of your salary taken away ???? Sorry I don't believe you. Very few people could afford to lose 25% on their income and still pay for all of their commitments. Prices and taxes have risen significantly in the last 18 months and pay rises have been well below inflation. It's immoral for the council to do this but when was the last time we had moral, honest, open and intelligent councillors or politicians ?binmans wife wrote: Its not the fact of not wanting to work its a case of fighting to keep a reasonable salary for a horrible job. The pay cuts they are talking about are unreasonable especially as it effects the ones at the lowest end of the pay brackett. I can understand freezing pay but to taking a pay cut is not fair. What about the people that have taken out mortgages based on their earnings, how are they going to keep up their mortgage repayments and ever increasing utility bills.Horrible job?,they don't even get their hands dirty these days and they're finished at 1 o'clock,come on!.Also,my mortgage is based on my wages,but it's also based on other things,like what would happen if i started earning less.
Fight Back
says...
10:20am Fri 2 Oct 09
greeg wrote:It isn't worth £32k - I picked that figure because I believe they probably don't. If they earn less that that then the percentage pay cut goes up - I would guess it really pays around the mid-twenties in which case they are losing a third of their income thus making it even more criminal for the council to do it. Regards the mortgage, many people take fixed rates for exactly the reason you mention - I sure as hell couldn't afford to take a 25% pay cut because the mortgage I took out was based on my ability to pay at the fixed rate.
Fight Back wrote:I didn't factor in a wage cut but i did think about what would happen if there was a substantial hike in interest rates,comes to the same thing.Also,can you enlighten me as to why throwing black bags into the back of a truck and pushing wheelie bins is worth £32000 a year?I'm struggling to understand it and i think you'll struggle to explain it.
greeg wrote:So fo arguements sake lets assume a binman earns 32k ( I'm most don't ) then they are being asked ( sorry told ) to take a 25% cut. You're seriously saying, when you took your mortgage out, that you borrowed on the theory you could see a quarter of your salary taken away ???? Sorry I don't believe you. Very few people could afford to lose 25% on their income and still pay for all of their commitments. Prices and taxes have risen significantly in the last 18 months and pay rises have been well below inflation. It's immoral for the council to do this but when was the last time we had moral, honest, open and intelligent councillors or politicians ?binmans wife wrote: Its not the fact of not wanting to work its a case of fighting to keep a reasonable salary for a horrible job. The pay cuts they are talking about are unreasonable especially as it effects the ones at the lowest end of the pay brackett. I can understand freezing pay but to taking a pay cut is not fair. What about the people that have taken out mortgages based on their earnings, how are they going to keep up their mortgage repayments and ever increasing utility bills.Horrible job?,they don't even get their hands dirty these days and they're finished at 1 o'clock,come on!.Also,my mortgage is based on my wages,but it's also based on other things,like what would happen if i started earning less.
Simondale88
says...
9:33am Sat 3 Oct 09
Regards,
Gold
ladicius
says...
10:20am Tue 6 Oct 09
greeg
says...
3:19pm Tue 6 Oct 09
ladicius wrote:So the powers that be want you to do the same job for just over £11000?
What a load of twaddle we are not even on 20k
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Karswell says...
10:43am Wed 30 Sep 09