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New Brighton priest vows to transform "the most Godless city in Britain" (From The Argus)
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New Brighton priest vows to transform "the most Godless city in Britain"
7:00am Friday 16th October 2009
A priest has declared it his mission to transform "the most Godless city in Britain".
Reverend Archie Coates' comments about Brighton and Hove have prompted a concerned reaction among residents.
He made them following his arrival in the city to head the off-shoot of London's evangelical Holy Trinity Brompton church being set up at St Peter's Church - the landmark building dubbed Brighton's Cathedral – in York Place.
The new parish has been "planted" because St Peter's dwindling congregation could no longer afford to maintain the building. It will hold its first mass on November 1.
In a web video, Rev Coates said: "Brighton is a place of great social and spiritual need. Homelessness, drugs and young men and women caught in the sex industry. It has been dubbed Britain's most Godless city."
He said his church could transform Brighton.
Rev Coates said: "Our vision is not just to fill the church but it's to build in the heart of this city a community and do whatever we can to sow our best years into playing our part in the re-evangelisation of Brighton and transformation of this society."
The announcement was questioned by representatives of residents around St Peter's.
Councillor Keith Taylor, who represents the area on Brighton and Hove City Council, said he hoped the church would be successful and would become a positive part of the community.
But he added: "Just because people do not go to church every week, it doesn't necessarily make them less good, or even 'Godless'. The church can provide an example and a place but it's humanity that is important."
Click on play to see what people thought about their city being branded "Godless"
Rev Coates' comments were prompted by figures from the 2001 UK Census, the first to include questions about religion.
Rev Coates last night said: "Since I moved to Brighton six weeks ago I have realised that it is a lot more godly than I imagined. If you look around you see the creativity, the vibrancy and the life of the city."
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Your Say YourArgus
alyn, southwick, southwick says...
7:51am Fri 16 Oct 09
magoo wrote:Judge religious people by their own standards, and you'll see its not their religion but how its follows fail to follow their own rules that's caused problems.
I don't know why i'm biting but it's a well known fact that religion has caused more problems than it's solved over the past thousand years or so. So thanks, but no thanks Archie!
it's a well known fact that its the abuse of religion that has caused more problems than it's solved over the past thousand years or so.
There is virtually nothing in today's world that hasn't been affected by religion - that includes everything that's good too. I think you'll find there are more problems that have been solved by religion than created.
neil466, brighton says...
8:05am Fri 16 Oct 09
As we all know brighton is mainly Muslim, and it will stay this way dispite this infedels comments.
Tye, Pembroke says...
8:06am Fri 16 Oct 09
Free advert for the church ;-)
Free advert for the church ;-)
Free advert for the church ;-)
Thought I'd help conor out :)
Seriously though have you seen "brighton beach" TV prog. for example and how a local church has helped those who are drunk
they work unsocial hours just because they want to help others
there's no issue with "religion" per se just people who use it as an excuse or a defence for their behaviour- look at Ireland - vicious thugs blowing people to bits, blackmail and extortion and now they are inpositions of power - not what the catholic church supports
Free advert for the church ;-)
Free advert for the church ;-)
Thought I'd help conor out :)
Seriously though have you seen "brighton beach" TV prog. for example and how a local church has helped those who are drunk
they work unsocial hours just because they want to help others
there's no issue with "religion" per se just people who use it as an excuse or a defence for their behaviour- look at Ireland - vicious thugs blowing people to bits, blackmail and extortion and now they are inpositions of power - not what the catholic church supports
logicub, Brighton says...
8:08am Fri 16 Oct 09
"Just because people do not go to church every week, it doesn't necessarily make them less good"
...and just because people go to church each week it doesn't make them good.
...and just because people go to church each week it doesn't make them good.
alyn, southwick, southwick says...
8:13am Fri 16 Oct 09
Tye wrote:Ireland was never about religion - it was always about politics. What did the terrorists want - either independence from Britain, or complete re-unification of the whole of the Ireland back to Britain (or just to fight on its own) - what's that got to do with religion.
Free advert for the church ;-) Free advert for the church ;-) Free advert for the church ;-) Thought I'd help conor out :) Seriously though have you seen "brighton beach" TV prog. for example and how a local church has helped those who are drunk they work unsocial hours just because they want to help others there's no issue with "religion" per se just people who use it as an excuse or a defence for their behaviour- look at Ireland - vicious thugs blowing people to bits, blackmail and extortion and now they are inpositions of power - not what the catholic church supports
Religion was abused by those wanting to meet their own ends (just like I said before).
alyn, southwick, southwick says...
8:15am Fri 16 Oct 09
logicub wrote:how true
"Just because people do not go to church every week, it doesn't necessarily make them less good" ...and just because people go to church each week it doesn't make them good.
mark 62, brighton says...
8:19am Fri 16 Oct 09
there are old pilots, and there are bold pilots, but there are no old bold pilots.
Tony Hancock, 3 Railway Cuttings, East Cheam says...
8:37am Fri 16 Oct 09
alyn, southwick wrote:I don't think you understand the irish problem at all.
Tye wrote: Free advert for the church ;-) Free advert for the church ;-) Free advert for the church ;-) Thought I'd help conor out :) Seriously though have you seen "brighton beach" TV prog. for example and how a local church has helped those who are drunk they work unsocial hours just because they want to help others there's no issue with "religion" per se just people who use it as an excuse or a defence for their behaviour- look at Ireland - vicious thugs blowing people to bits, blackmail and extortion and now they are inpositions of power - not what the catholic church supportsIreland was never about religion - it was always about politics. What did the terrorists want - either independence from Britain, or complete re-unification of the whole of the Ireland back to Britain (or just to fight on its own) - what's that got to do with religion. Religion was abused by those wanting to meet their own ends (just like I said before).
Religion and politics and totally intertwined and to say that the problems there are totally political is nonsense.
Explain to me then why, in N Ireland, in Belfast, there is a catholic community and a protestant community - who are not integrated and never mix - but live in the same country.
Explain all the sectarian violence of the last 40 years. Not catholic killing catholic, or protestant killing protestant.
The Irish problem is TOTALLY about religious loyalties, and always has been. The mostly catholic south against the protestant minority in the north.
And the fact that murder and maiming it's still going on in the 21st century in the name of religion, just shows what a nonsense all fundamentalist religions of any sort are.
I'm glad the city I live in is godless. Long may it stay that way.
elfinbrighton, Brighton says...
8:42am Fri 16 Oct 09
Yeah, right - the best of British to you, reverend. You'll find that there's a good reason Brighton is "godless" - good school and university education; freedom of thought and creativity; excellent access to knowledge.
There is no longer room here for your simplistic little Iron Age myths. This horse is dead, however much you continue to flog it. Religion only flourishes in the gaps which are left by the lack of education and knowledge. Most people here will view you and your particular god as quaint but ultimately irrelevant.
There is no longer room here for your simplistic little Iron Age myths. This horse is dead, however much you continue to flog it. Religion only flourishes in the gaps which are left by the lack of education and knowledge. Most people here will view you and your particular god as quaint but ultimately irrelevant.
antipope, hove says...
8:43am Fri 16 Oct 09
Brighton, the most god-less city in this country? Hurrah, finally some good news!!
David523, Brighton says...
9:18am Fri 16 Oct 09
Youre such IDIOTS! Religion hasnt caused the biggest problem - it's the extremists and the power hungry who ruined it! (just like with anything, politics, business, society).
By the way - the headline is misleading - the story STATES the reverand did not say HE thought Brighton was Godless, he said "It has been dubbed Godless".
With all the selfishness of people like you morons ruining society, it makes me laugh when you idiots point the finger at religion, which in todays world only asks for people to consider each other and for tolerance. Once more for those particularly thick - PEOPLE cause problems, not religion.
By the way - the headline is misleading - the story STATES the reverand did not say HE thought Brighton was Godless, he said "It has been dubbed Godless".
With all the selfishness of people like you morons ruining society, it makes me laugh when you idiots point the finger at religion, which in todays world only asks for people to consider each other and for tolerance. Once more for those particularly thick - PEOPLE cause problems, not religion.
elfinbrighton, Brighton says...
9:36am Fri 16 Oct 09
David523 wrote:You blinkered simpleton. Religion demands complete acquiescence. Religious leaders speak of tolerance while vilifying gays and atheists; they speak of humility and lack of Earthly riches from banqueting tables in their palaces while children they have infected with their religion half way across the world starve and die from curable diseases. And you speak of selfishness.
Youre such IDIOTS! Religion hasnt caused the biggest problem - it's the extremists and the power hungry who ruined it! (just like with anything, politics, business, society).
By the way - the headline is misleading - the story STATES the reverand did not say HE thought Brighton was Godless, he said "It has been dubbed Godless".
With all the selfishness of people like you morons ruining society, it makes me laugh when you idiots point the finger at religion, which in todays world only asks for people to consider each other and for tolerance. Once more for those particularly thick - PEOPLE cause problems, not religion.
Religion is still the biggest threat to human progress and quality of life that exists today. It is insulting to all humans. It removes the idea of personal responsibility in life and defers happiness to some imagined afterlife. It's corrupt, morally bankrupt and the closest thing to "evil" most of us could imagine.
Thankfully, it's dying.
stickman, Portslade says...
9:40am Fri 16 Oct 09
David523 wrote:If you think religion promotes tolerance and consideration then you are the idiot. Extremism is part of religion whether you like it or not. The millions of tolerant, considerate, moderate believers provide the justification for the nutters to fight on their behalf.
Youre such IDIOTS! Religion hasnt caused the biggest problem - it's the extremists and the power hungry who ruined it! (just like with anything, politics, business, society).
By the way - the headline is misleading - the story STATES the reverand did not say HE thought Brighton was Godless, he said "It has been dubbed Godless".
With all the selfishness of people like you morons ruining society, it makes me laugh when you idiots point the finger at religion, which in todays world only asks for people to consider each other and for tolerance. Once more for those particularly thick - PEOPLE cause problems, not religion.
You are right that people cause problems but you forget that people created religion too and use it constantly to justify their own agendas.
RickH, Hove says...
9:57am Fri 16 Oct 09
neil466 wrote:What a load of complete tosh - on what evidence are you basing such a statement when the last UK census shows that an average of 3.1% across the UK (see: http://www.diversito
As we all know brighton is mainly Muslim, and it will stay this way dispite this infedels comments.
n.com/religion/censu
s/britain.asp)? Are you seriously expecting us to beleive that Brighton (with 25% proclaiming no religions - same source) that B&H has at least 10 times the proportion of Muslims than the UK average - somehow I think you statement is empty rhetoric.
RickH, Hove says...
9:59am Fri 16 Oct 09
RickH wrote:And forgot to mention that same article states " London has the highest proportion of Muslims (8.5 per cent)" - so somehow I think you're way off the mark.
neil466 wrote: As we all know brighton is mainly Muslim, and it will stay this way dispite this infedels comments.What a load of complete tosh - on what evidence are you basing such a statement when the last UK census shows that an average of 3.1% across the UK (see: http://www.diversito n.com/religion/censu s/britain.asp)? Are you seriously expecting us to beleive that Brighton (with 25% proclaiming no religions - same source) that B&H has at least 10 times the proportion of Muslims than the UK average - somehow I think you statement is empty rhetoric.
tinkywinky, Brighton says...
10:07am Fri 16 Oct 09
Archie forgot to mention the Sodomites. LOL
richtextformat, brighton says...
10:31am Fri 16 Oct 09
oh my! would anyone like a nice cup of tea?
Voice of the silent Majority, Hove says...
10:38am Fri 16 Oct 09
Went to a christing on Sunday and they are not even giving the blood of christ now due to swine flu.
So much for his will be done....
However i did wonder how the 50 or so regulars manage to keep the church going with cost for wages upkeep resourses etc.
So much for his will be done....
However i did wonder how the 50 or so regulars manage to keep the church going with cost for wages upkeep resourses etc.
Tony Hancock, 3 Railway Cuttings, East Cheam says...
10:54am Fri 16 Oct 09
As someone far cleverer than me once said - Marx I think:
'Religion is the opiate of the masses'.
Unfortunately it is also the amphetamine that drives the extremist.
'Religion is the opiate of the masses'.
Unfortunately it is also the amphetamine that drives the extremist.
PaulOckenden, Shoreham says...
10:56am Fri 16 Oct 09
As an anti-theist I'm so happy that my home city is the most Godless in Britain.
While I accept that some religions do some good work, overall the effect of religion on society is a negative one. And to tell people that the only way to lead a good life is to believe in some supernatural mumbo jumbo is just so wrong, in my humble opinion.
As Douglas Adams once said, "Isn't it enough to see that a garden is beautiful without having to believe that there are fairies at the bottom of it too?"
While I accept that some religions do some good work, overall the effect of religion on society is a negative one. And to tell people that the only way to lead a good life is to believe in some supernatural mumbo jumbo is just so wrong, in my humble opinion.
As Douglas Adams once said, "Isn't it enough to see that a garden is beautiful without having to believe that there are fairies at the bottom of it too?"
Barry Duke, Brighton says...
11:38am Fri 16 Oct 09
Hilariously, the Alpha lot have a poll on their website http://uk.alpha.org/
asking whether God exists: 2% say Yes, 1% probably and 97% NO!
I suggest the good reverend find a a more worthwhile vocation and give up trying to foist his primitive beliefs on a world far better off without religion and the mania it generates!
asking whether God exists: 2% say Yes, 1% probably and 97% NO!
I suggest the good reverend find a a more worthwhile vocation and give up trying to foist his primitive beliefs on a world far better off without religion and the mania it generates!
stickman, Portslade says...
11:46am Fri 16 Oct 09
richtextformat wrote:I thought you'd never ask.
oh my! would anyone like a nice cup of tea?
Thebuilderman, Hailsham says...
11:55am Fri 16 Oct 09
Tony Hancock wrote:Here here if God is so great why does he allow such killing to go on what ever religion you are you should all be very upset with what has gone on through the years in the name of God.
alyn, southwick wrote:I don't think you understand the irish problem at all. Religion and politics and totally intertwined and to say that the problems there are totally political is nonsense. Explain to me then why, in N Ireland, in Belfast, there is a catholic community and a protestant community - who are not integrated and never mix - but live in the same country. Explain all the sectarian violence of the last 40 years. Not catholic killing catholic, or protestant killing protestant. The Irish problem is TOTALLY about religious loyalties, and always has been. The mostly catholic south against the protestant minority in the north. And the fact that murder and maiming it's still going on in the 21st century in the name of religion, just shows what a nonsense all fundamentalist religions of any sort are. I'm glad the city I live in is godless. Long may it stay that way.Tye wrote: Free advert for the church ;-) Free advert for the church ;-) Free advert for the church ;-) Thought I'd help conor out :) Seriously though have you seen "brighton beach" TV prog. for example and how a local church has helped those who are drunk they work unsocial hours just because they want to help others there's no issue with "religion" per se just people who use it as an excuse or a defence for their behaviour- look at Ireland - vicious thugs blowing people to bits, blackmail and extortion and now they are inpositions of power - not what the catholic church supportsIreland was never about religion - it was always about politics. What did the terrorists want - either independence from Britain, or complete re-unification of the whole of the Ireland back to Britain (or just to fight on its own) - what's that got to do with religion. Religion was abused by those wanting to meet their own ends (just like I said before).
Georgia209, Lancing says...
12:19pm Fri 16 Oct 09
I'm probably the most staunch 'godless' person there is but I think its important to remember that everyone is entitled to believe what they like. Being part of organized religion (which often does have connotations of nasty things) and believing in God are two very different things. (although they do often work hand in hand)
Bennn, Kemptown, Brighton says...
12:43pm Fri 16 Oct 09
elfinbrighton wrote:Well said mate! I'm proud to live in the most Godless city in Britain.
Yeah, right - the best of British to you, reverend. You'll find that there's a good reason Brighton is "godless" - good school and university education; freedom of thought and creativity; excellent access to knowledge. There is no longer room here for your simplistic little Iron Age myths. This horse is dead, however much you continue to flog it. Religion only flourishes in the gaps which are left by the lack of education and knowledge. Most people here will view you and your particular god as quaint but ultimately irrelevant.
Nigel Noncington, Coombe Road says...
1:14pm Fri 16 Oct 09
PaulOckenden wrote:Godless?
As an anti-theist I'm so happy that my home city is the most Godless in Britain. While I accept that some religions do some good work, overall the effect of religion on society is a negative one. And to tell people that the only way to lead a good life is to believe in some supernatural mumbo jumbo is just so wrong, in my humble opinion. As Douglas Adams once said, "Isn't it enough to see that a garden is beautiful without having to believe that there are fairies at the bottom of it too?"
Either God exists or he doesn't. In the words of Stuart Lee, 'I find the notion of offending a superbeing completely inane'
You cannot be Godless if there is a God. (weren't we all created in his image?)
But no-one can ever prove with absolute gusto either way, although science gives a f*cking good argument.
Religion has lasted this long because no-one will believe that the foibles of the human race are intrinsic in nature and not as the result of offending or pleasing a super-being.
tim e, brighton says...
1:40pm Fri 16 Oct 09
Evangelical vicar bringing his hate crimes here.
Brighton just stay godless for Christ's sake.
Nice redundant church, make it a great club or gallery.
Brighton just stay godless for Christ's sake.
Nice redundant church, make it a great club or gallery.
puddingandpi, Brighton says...
2:06pm Fri 16 Oct 09
Maybe Brighton is so "godless" because a lot of it's residents object to being called deviants, perverts & paedophiles & being told they are the worst of sinners who are going to burn in hell for all eternity.
Just a thought.
Just a thought.
chrisbrighton, brighton says...
2:31pm Fri 16 Oct 09
And the Church wonders why they have record low attendances. Maybe if they appoited more clergy like the Vical of Dibley rather than religious zelots like this they would fill the pews
worthinglogic, Worthing says...
2:52pm Fri 16 Oct 09
Not to mention all the extremists and bigots who fight the religious cause, scientific progress has been held back repeatedly by pious types. By now if it weren't for religious lobbyists stem cell therapy (which will eventually flourish regardless) would be a lot more developed and already saving thousands of lives a year.
SamTempleton, London says...
3:38pm Fri 16 Oct 09
Religious debate aside, what are you all doing to help solve the problems and pain caused by "Homelessness, drugs and young men and women caught in the sex industry"? Being aware of the fantastic work Archie Coates and the team from Holy Trinity Brompton have done in London to work with and help people (Christian and non-Christian alike) caught in devastating addictions and restoring their quality of life, surely we should be cheering on the work he promises to do in Brighton, not waffling on with these tired anti-religion arguments. How about you all invest your energy into supporting the work they promise to do to bring people off the streets, stop drugs being dealt round the corner from your house and help support men and women out of prostitution? Just a thought....
stickman, Portslade says...
3:41pm Fri 16 Oct 09
chrisbrighton wrote:It might help if god actually existed too.
And the Church wonders why they have record low attendances. Maybe if they appoited more clergy like the Vical of Dibley rather than religious zelots like this they would fill the pews
PaulOckenden, Shoreham says...
3:46pm Fri 16 Oct 09
SamTempleton wrote:I'm more than happy to (and do) support work to help these causes. But I refuse to do so via any organisation based around religion.
Religious debate aside, what are you all doing to help solve the problems and pain caused by "Homelessness, drugs and young men and women caught in the sex industry"? Being aware of the fantastic work Archie Coates and the team from Holy Trinity Brompton have done in London to work with and help people (Christian and non-Christian alike) caught in devastating addictions and restoring their quality of life, surely we should be cheering on the work he promises to do in Brighton, not waffling on with these tired anti-religion arguments. How about you all invest your energy into supporting the work they promise to do to bring people off the streets, stop drugs being dealt round the corner from your house and help support men and women out of prostitution? Just a thought....
One of the most misused phrases you'll hear is "That's very Christian of you" when you do someone a good deed. It's perfectly possible to do good deeds without involving an over-hyped, exaggerated, and politically manipulated story about a bloke that (probably) lived a couple of thousand years ago.
If you're inclined to be a nice person then just be nice. If you want to do help others then just help them. There's no need to force people to believe in fairy stories in order for them to be declared good.
SamTempleton, London says...
3:49pm Fri 16 Oct 09
PaulOckenden wrote:If you're more than happy then do it! If an organisation is doing good work surely you want to lend a hand? Don't let a difference of opinion stand in the way of solving the very real problems in this world. If you did no-one would ever work together on anything.
SamTempleton wrote: Religious debate aside, what are you all doing to help solve the problems and pain caused by "Homelessness, drugs and young men and women caught in the sex industry"? Being aware of the fantastic work Archie Coates and the team from Holy Trinity Brompton have done in London to work with and help people (Christian and non-Christian alike) caught in devastating addictions and restoring their quality of life, surely we should be cheering on the work he promises to do in Brighton, not waffling on with these tired anti-religion arguments. How about you all invest your energy into supporting the work they promise to do to bring people off the streets, stop drugs being dealt round the corner from your house and help support men and women out of prostitution? Just a thought....I'm more than happy to (and do) support work to help these causes. But I refuse to do so via any organisation based around religion. One of the most misused phrases you'll hear is "That's very Christian of you" when you do someone a good deed. It's perfectly possible to do good deeds without involving an over-hyped, exaggerated, and politically manipulated story about a bloke that (probably) lived a couple of thousand years ago. If you're inclined to be a nice person then just be nice. If you want to do help others then just help them. There's no need to force people to believe in fairy stories in order for them to be declared good.
steve lawless, Brighton says...
4:05pm Fri 16 Oct 09
mark 62 wrote:Are we talking sky pilots here mark?
there are old pilots, and there are bold pilots, but there are no old bold pilots.
Abrightonian, Brighton says...
4:11pm Fri 16 Oct 09
@samtempleton
Yes, Brighton has problems. But it's patronising to parachute a priest in and promise to cure them.
We don't need saving. We'd like to apply our own, secular, solutions.
Thanks.
Yes, Brighton has problems. But it's patronising to parachute a priest in and promise to cure them.
We don't need saving. We'd like to apply our own, secular, solutions.
Thanks.
PaulOckenden, Shoreham says...
4:14pm Fri 16 Oct 09
SamTempleton, is your problem with reading or with understanding what I wrote? Because if you did either you'd see that a) yes, I do support such causes, but b) never via religion backed organisations. As to solving the problems of this world, as an anti-theist I happen to believe that religion IS one of those problems.
An if I let a difference of opinion stop me supporting a religion based help group then "no-one would ever work together on anything" ???? Do you realise just how ridiculous that sounds?
An if I let a difference of opinion stop me supporting a religion based help group then "no-one would ever work together on anything" ???? Do you realise just how ridiculous that sounds?
SamTempleton, London says...
4:14pm Fri 16 Oct 09
Abrightonian wrote:Would you consider it patronising for a non-Christian charity to 'parachute in' and continue their work there promising the same things? Probably not. How about everyone pulling together, regardless of beliefs, and supporting all the good work, Christian or not in our cities?
@samtempleton Yes, Brighton has problems. But it's patronising to parachute a priest in and promise to cure them. We don't need saving. We'd like to apply our own, secular, solutions. Thanks.
SamTempleton, London says...
4:17pm Fri 16 Oct 09
PaulOckenden wrote:I'm sorry you feel the need to be rude - my reading is perfectly fine, thank you for asking. I'm sorry I missed that bit in your comment. That's great you're involved in work around the city - I hope it continues brilliantly, as I hope the work St Peter's carries out will too.
SamTempleton, is your problem with reading or with understanding what I wrote? Because if you did either you'd see that a) yes, I do support such causes, but b) never via religion backed organisations. As to solving the problems of this world, as an anti-theist I happen to believe that religion IS one of those problems. An if I let a difference of opinion stop me supporting a religion based help group then "no-one would ever work together on anything" ???? Do you realise just how ridiculous that sounds?
Christophe Hawtree, Hove says...
4:44pm Fri 16 Oct 09
How can the place be called Godless when there are several councillors who think that is their rôle?
quedula, brighton says...
4:54pm Fri 16 Oct 09
elfinbrighton wrote:I was going to post but I think you've said it all.
Yeah, right - the best of British to you, reverend. You'll find that there's a good reason Brighton is "godless" - good school and university education; freedom of thought and creativity; excellent access to knowledge.
There is no longer room here for your simplistic little Iron Age myths. This horse is dead, however much you continue to flog it. Religion only flourishes in the gaps which are left by the lack of education and knowledge. Most people here will view you and your particular god as quaint but ultimately irrelevant.
alyn, southwick, southwick says...
5:23pm Fri 16 Oct 09
Thebuilderman wrote:You missed the brief point I made right at the beginning of these comments
Tony Hancock wrote:Here here if God is so great why does he allow such killing to go on what ever religion you are you should all be very upset with what has gone on through the years in the name of God.alyn, southwick wrote:I don't think you understand the irish problem at all. Religion and politics and totally intertwined and to say that the problems there are totally political is nonsense. Explain to me then why, in N Ireland, in Belfast, there is a catholic community and a protestant community - who are not integrated and never mix - but live in the same country. Explain all the sectarian violence of the last 40 years. Not catholic killing catholic, or protestant killing protestant. The Irish problem is TOTALLY about religious loyalties, and always has been. The mostly catholic south against the protestant minority in the north. And the fact that murder and maiming it's still going on in the 21st century in the name of religion, just shows what a nonsense all fundamentalist religions of any sort are. I'm glad the city I live in is godless. Long may it stay that way.Tye wrote: Free advert for the church ;-) Free advert for the church ;-) Free advert for the church ;-) Thought I'd help conor out :) Seriously though have you seen "brighton beach" TV prog. for example and how a local church has helped those who are drunk they work unsocial hours just because they want to help others there's no issue with "religion" per se just people who use it as an excuse or a defence for their behaviour- look at Ireland - vicious thugs blowing people to bits, blackmail and extortion and now they are inpositions of power - not what the catholic church supportsIreland was never about religion - it was always about politics. What did the terrorists want - either independence from Britain, or complete re-unification of the whole of the Ireland back to Britain (or just to fight on its own) - what's that got to do with religion. Religion was abused by those wanting to meet their own ends (just like I said before).
ITS THE ABUSE OF RELEGION THATS CAUSED PROBLEMS.
For your information having spent time on evangelical duties in Northern Ireland for a church that is accepted across the world I do have some idea of the Irish situation (I don't know what time you spent in Ireland).
There is so much killing because God refuses to make us robots we are accountable for our own actions or in-actions.
I am upset at the ABUSE of religion, particularly my own (though I recognise other religions are victims/suffer too).
Abrightonian, Brighton says...
5:52pm Fri 16 Oct 09
@samtempleton
Many religious groups do good work. But Rev Coates is clear on his purpose the "re-evangelisation of Brighton and transformation of this society."
In think in those terms, we'll find our own non-religious solutions and do very well without the Alpha nonsense. Thanks again.
Many religious groups do good work. But Rev Coates is clear on his purpose the "re-evangelisation of Brighton and transformation of this society."
In think in those terms, we'll find our own non-religious solutions and do very well without the Alpha nonsense. Thanks again.
KarenT, Hove says...
8:12pm Fri 16 Oct 09
God Schmod. The last thing we need is some significant religious presence in Brighton, spouting on about the sins of homosexuality and pre-marital sex. Brighton is a city of alternative lifestyles and benign decadence (aside from the chav invasion of West Street on a Saturday night)... Let's keep it that way!
sussexone, Btn says...
8:24pm Fri 16 Oct 09
oh, the "A- Team" are in town are they, perhaps they'll take a few gay people, some unmarried mothers, a few drug addicts, and a couple of chavs and turn the sinners into a super-duper brand new Christian congregation for their church.
I think the phrase "kiss my ar*e" springs to mind! go forth back to London methinks!
I think the phrase "kiss my ar*e" springs to mind! go forth back to London methinks!
MichaelParks, Brighton says...
8:58pm Fri 16 Oct 09
This is the most uninformed piece of rubbish I have ever read. First of all - he's not a Priest. He's not Catholic. Secondly it's I believe an Anglican church. So there's no mass. Anyway - now that we have some factual issues cleared up - let's look at what he said. He said the city had been dubbed Godless. So he was NOT saying it is Godless. He's quoting what others have said. In fact he was quoting the census which states: Nobody goes to church and loads of people say they have no faith. Go on. Inform yourselves. I just looked it up myself. So in a sense what he is quoting is right. Godlessness appears to be the order of the day. Now from someone who has a very good education behind them I can assure you that ignorance does not go hand in hand with faith. Religion maybe. Faith is another thing. Unless of course you consider Martin Luther King, Winston Churchill, Ghandi, Obama, Florence Nightingale, Barnado, Tony Blair or similar to be stupid. You might not agree with their views, but 'ignorant" would be a bit of a stretch. If you look at the bigggest atrocities of the recent past they have been commited by people without faith. Stalin, Hitler, the Khymer Rouge. I mean - let's talk numbers of people murdered... So let's get back to brass tacks. Brighton has a huge homeless issue, massive issues with drug abuse and appears to have an uninformed politicised press too. And it is (chech the stats) one of the most godless cities in the country. Tell you what - I might give this Church a go. Not sure if they have a solution. But I'm willing to give it a try.
Dave in Hastings, Hastings says...
9:00pm Fri 16 Oct 09
Evangelical Christians - among the most dangerous people on earth. seemingly intelligent people who believe in totally irrational nonsense. And don't believe any of this benign charity clap-trap. I would do away with faith-based schools - kids brainwashed from a young age. The evangelicals would do away with rational science and have us all believing in creationism twaddle. From the pope declaring against the use of condoms in Africa, to the fundamentalist american religious right - what a frightening bunch of people. As Abrightonian says, we don't need religion to find solutions to our problems. @samtempleton - it's you who miss the point; religion IS the problem.
Miss Tree, says...
9:18pm Fri 16 Oct 09
Brighton is godless because the universe is godless
alyn, southwick, southwick says...
9:23pm Fri 16 Oct 09
Dave in Hastings wrote:What about The Salvation Army - they're evangelical?
Evangelical Christians - among the most dangerous people on earth. seemingly intelligent people who believe in totally irrational nonsense. And don't believe any of this benign charity clap-trap. I would do away with faith-based schools - kids brainwashed from a young age. The evangelicals would do away with rational science and have us all believing in creationism twaddle. From the pope declaring against the use of condoms in Africa, to the fundamentalist american religious right - what a frightening bunch of people. As Abrightonian says, we don't need religion to find solutions to our problems. @samtempleton - it's you who miss the point; religion IS the problem.
Also you're contradicting yourself Science is all about keeping an open mind in order to discover the previously unknown. You're not very open-minded are you? (Nor a lot of the other commentators on here who are blasting religious people for not being open-minded.)
upontheruth, brighton says...
10:22pm Fri 16 Oct 09
As usual the atheists come out to play on this website! Well HEAR this, St Peter's church is opening 1st of the month and things are going to change. Suck on your mints and head to Lewes where the air is wicken, because Christianity is back with no apologies!
KarenT, Hove says...
10:53pm Fri 16 Oct 09
upontheruth wrote:Fair enough. As long as you go to your church, say your prayers and sing your songs that's not a problem. Just keep it to yourselves, don't go knocking on my door trying to save my soul with quotes from your book of fables, or turning up at Pride trying to spoil everyone's fun, then it's all cool. ;-) I believe in everybody's right to worship or blaspheme or take their virginal wedding vows before god or shag their same-sex lovers in the bushes as much as they wish, as long as they don't attempt to impose it on others. But unfortunately it's those who are religious that always seem to be the ones that can't accept the fact that their world view is quite often of no relevance or interest to others.
As usual the atheists come out to play on this website! Well HEAR this, St Peter's church is opening 1st of the month and things are going to change. Suck on your mints and head to Lewes where the air is wicken, because Christianity is back with no apologies!
DC78, Saltdean says...
12:06am Sat 17 Oct 09
upontheruth wrote:NURSE!
As usual the atheists come out to play on this website! Well HEAR this, St Peter's church is opening 1st of the month and things are going to change. Suck on your mints and head to Lewes where the air is wicken, because Christianity is back with no apologies!
psr6629, Eastbourne says...
12:07am Sat 17 Oct 09
A C Grayling's comment that we must not tolerate the intolerant holds very true. My experience tells me that anti-religious fervour is usually divorced from any meaningful study or understanding of that vastly complex subject, mankind's need for faith. This produces a problem when it comes to a reasoned argument, as it is all emotion, repeated inaccuracies and half-truths, whether inherited or acquired, hence that hoary old chestnut about religion having killed so many people. Thank you MichaelParks for "If you look at the biggest atrocities of the recent past they have been committed by people without faith. Stalin, Hitler, the Khmer Rouge. I mean - let's talk numbers of people murdered... " Hitler did not kill Jews, Gypsies or Gays because of religious conviction; power-politics, greed and a "scientifically" rationalized ideology of racial purity, was a far more murderous combination. Other arenas of conflict that became polarised along sectarian lines usually had social and financial inequalities underlying that shift.
Extremism, and uninformed animosity, religious or non-religious, is always to be distrusted. And as a point of information if I were to put myself in any particular category it would be Deist.
Extremism, and uninformed animosity, religious or non-religious, is always to be distrusted. And as a point of information if I were to put myself in any particular category it would be Deist.
MichaelParks, Brighton says...
12:11am Sat 17 Oct 09
KarenT wrote:Call me old fashioned - but isn't "Pride" kind of imposed on the people of Brighton? Or is that OK? Sorry - you've confused me. It's OK to talk about your views on sexuality - nay shout it from the roof tops in a parade, but not faith? Ok. Well thanks for setting us crazy Christians straight on fairness and the right to talk about what WE believe. The bible is pretty clear about not imposing your views on other people and the fact that people have a choice, so if your experience of Christians has been that their views have been shoved down you throat then I apologise. That's religion. Religion is man made. Faith is something quite different.
upontheruth wrote:Fair enough. As long as you go to your church, say your prayers and sing your songs that's not a problem. Just keep it to yourselves, don't go knocking on my door trying to save my soul with quotes from your book of fables, or turning up at Pride trying to spoil everyone's fun, then it's all cool. ;-) I believe in everybody's right to worship or blaspheme or take their virginal wedding vows before god or shag their same-sex lovers in the bushes as much as they wish, as long as they don't attempt to impose it on others. But unfortunately it's those who are religious that always seem to be the ones that can't accept the fact that their world view is quite often of no relevance or interest to others.
As usual the atheists come out to play on this website! Well HEAR this, St Peter's church is opening 1st of the month and things are going to change. Suck on your mints and head to Lewes where the air is wicken, because Christianity is back with no apologies!
DC78, Saltdean says...
12:29am Sat 17 Oct 09
@Michael Parks
Sorry if Pride is imposed on the people of Brighton. Especially the traders who rely on the small fortune that they recieve from the visitors who impose all over their shops and bars and restaurants for the day and erm, the next day... the swines!!
Lets complain next about the VW rally, imposing down here with their ungodly chariots of camper vans!
shout 'faith' from the roof tops however you like.. whatever faith means? I am all for it??
You then quote the bible, as if it has any kind of authority... 'the bible is pretty clear about not imposing your views on other people'... after having made your views very clear on sexuality. Hiporcite! You better be on your knees after that one...!! Repenting to your imaginary god... if not, come over to my place on your knees!!
Sorry if Pride is imposed on the people of Brighton. Especially the traders who rely on the small fortune that they recieve from the visitors who impose all over their shops and bars and restaurants for the day and erm, the next day... the swines!!
Lets complain next about the VW rally, imposing down here with their ungodly chariots of camper vans!
shout 'faith' from the roof tops however you like.. whatever faith means? I am all for it??
You then quote the bible, as if it has any kind of authority... 'the bible is pretty clear about not imposing your views on other people'... after having made your views very clear on sexuality. Hiporcite! You better be on your knees after that one...!! Repenting to your imaginary god... if not, come over to my place on your knees!!
stickman, Portslade says...
12:54am Sat 17 Oct 09
upontheruth wrote:Atheists are everywhere - its what happens when you start thinking and questioning.
As usual the atheists come out to play on this website! Well HEAR this, St Peter's church is opening 1st of the month and things are going to change. Suck on your mints and head to Lewes where the air is wicken, because Christianity is back with no apologies!
How are things going to change? Have you finally found some evidence that god exists?
Juan Albion, Youngstown says...
4:28am Sat 17 Oct 09
stickman wrote:Surely not another fool who lays back in his own arrogance, having convinced himself that Christians don't actually think freely about or question what they believe? Well, if that's an example of your obviously very limited thinking abilities, I think I'll pass on atheism. Look around you for evidence that God exists. Science goes a long way to proving that God must exist if you actually bother to think it through.
upontheruth wrote: As usual the atheists come out to play on this website! Well HEAR this, St Peter's church is opening 1st of the month and things are going to change. Suck on your mints and head to Lewes where the air is wicken, because Christianity is back with no apologies!Atheists are everywhere - its what happens when you start thinking and questioning. How are things going to change? Have you finally found some evidence that god exists?
Whitedot, says...
8:14am Sat 17 Oct 09
A bit less god in the world and we'd have a lot more peace.
Martinbpoole, Hove says...
8:48am Sat 17 Oct 09
Brighton people are not Godless, they're just not into church. The census question quoted here asked people about their religion but actually interest in spirituality of all kinds is higher here than in most places, it's just that organised religion is not very relevant to a lot of people. We need new ways of exploring spirituality like BEYOND www.beyondchurch.co.
uk
uk
Tony Hancock, 3 Railway Cuttings, East Cheam says...
9:07am Sat 17 Oct 09
alyn, southwick wrote:Well, if you spent time in Ireland (as I have myself) I'm surprised that you still don't appear to understand that religion is the ROOT CAUSE of the problems there - not politics.
Thebuilderman wrote:You missed the brief point I made right at the beginning of these comments ITS THE ABUSE OF RELEGION THATS CAUSED PROBLEMS. For your information having spent time on evangelical duties in Northern Ireland for a church that is accepted across the world I do have some idea of the Irish situation (I don't know what time you spent in Ireland). There is so much killing because God refuses to make us robots we are accountable for our own actions or in-actions. I am upset at the ABUSE of religion, particularly my own (though I recognise other religions are victims/suffer too).Tony Hancock wrote:Here here if God is so great why does he allow such killing to go on what ever religion you are you should all be very upset with what has gone on through the years in the name of God.alyn, southwick wrote:I don't think you understand the irish problem at all. Religion and politics and totally intertwined and to say that the problems there are totally political is nonsense. Explain to me then why, in N Ireland, in Belfast, there is a catholic community and a protestant community - who are not integrated and never mix - but live in the same country. Explain all the sectarian violence of the last 40 years. Not catholic killing catholic, or protestant killing protestant. The Irish problem is TOTALLY about religious loyalties, and always has been. The mostly catholic south against the protestant minority in the north. And the fact that murder and maiming it's still going on in the 21st century in the name of religion, just shows what a nonsense all fundamentalist religions of any sort are. I'm glad the city I live in is godless. Long may it stay that way.Tye wrote: Free advert for the church ;-) Free advert for the church ;-) Free advert for the church ;-) Thought I'd help conor out :) Seriously though have you seen "brighton beach" TV prog. for example and how a local church has helped those who are drunk they work unsocial hours just because they want to help others there's no issue with "religion" per se just people who use it as an excuse or a defence for their behaviour- look at Ireland - vicious thugs blowing people to bits, blackmail and extortion and now they are inpositions of power - not what the catholic church supportsIreland was never about religion - it was always about politics. What did the terrorists want - either independence from Britain, or complete re-unification of the whole of the Ireland back to Britain (or just to fight on its own) - what's that got to do with religion. Religion was abused by those wanting to meet their own ends (just like I said before).
The whole Ireland problem is protestants versus catholics - has been for hundreds of years, long before Ireland was divided into north and south.
You might call it an abuse of religion. But if that is what is done in the NAME of religion, I just see it as a very good reason to have nothing to do with any religion whatsoever.
alyn, southwick, southwick says...
9:29am Sat 17 Oct 09
Tony Hancock wrote:My first comments on this were:
alyn, southwick wrote:Well, if you spent time in Ireland (as I have myself) I'm surprised that you still don't appear to understand that religion is the ROOT CAUSE of the problems there - not politics. The whole Ireland problem is protestants versus catholics - has been for hundreds of years, long before Ireland was divided into north and south. You might call it an abuse of religion. But if that is what is done in the NAME of religion, I just see it as a very good reason to have nothing to do with any religion whatsoever.Thebuilderman wrote:You missed the brief point I made right at the beginning of these comments ITS THE ABUSE OF RELEGION THATS CAUSED PROBLEMS. For your information having spent time on evangelical duties in Northern Ireland for a church that is accepted across the world I do have some idea of the Irish situation (I don't know what time you spent in Ireland). There is so much killing because God refuses to make us robots we are accountable for our own actions or in-actions. I am upset at the ABUSE of religion, particularly my own (though I recognise other religions are victims/suffer too).Tony Hancock wrote:Here here if God is so great why does he allow such killing to go on what ever religion you are you should all be very upset with what has gone on through the years in the name of God.alyn, southwick wrote:I don't think you understand the irish problem at all. Religion and politics and totally intertwined and to say that the problems there are totally political is nonsense. Explain to me then why, in N Ireland, in Belfast, there is a catholic community and a protestant community - who are not integrated and never mix - but live in the same country. Explain all the sectarian violence of the last 40 years. Not catholic killing catholic, or protestant killing protestant. The Irish problem is TOTALLY about religious loyalties, and always has been. The mostly catholic south against the protestant minority in the north. And the fact that murder and maiming it's still going on in the 21st century in the name of religion, just shows what a nonsense all fundamentalist religions of any sort are. I'm glad the city I live in is godless. Long may it stay that way.Tye wrote: Free advert for the church ;-) Free advert for the church ;-) Free advert for the church ;-) Thought I'd help conor out :) Seriously though have you seen "brighton beach" TV prog. for example and how a local church has helped those who are drunk they work unsocial hours just because they want to help others there's no issue with "religion" per se just people who use it as an excuse or a defence for their behaviour- look at Ireland - vicious thugs blowing people to bits, blackmail and extortion and now they are inpositions of power - not what the catholic church supportsIreland was never about religion - it was always about politics. What did the terrorists want - either independence from Britain, or complete re-unification of the whole of the Ireland back to Britain (or just to fight on its own) - what's that got to do with religion. Religion was abused by those wanting to meet their own ends (just like I said before).
"Judge religious people by their own standards, and you'll see its not their religion but how its followers fail to follow their own rules that's caused problems."
Yes people who 'call' them themselves "Catholic" or "Protestant" have been fighting and arguing with one another because they 'say' they're fighting for the "Catholic" or "Protestant" cause, but they are not. (I stated their real reasons.)
I can 'call' myself a Policeman but it don't make me one. I can 'say' the sky is green, that doesn't mean I really believe it is.
As far as the christian faith is concerned our bible says love even your enemies and turn the other cheek. Using this to judge those who act(ed) atrociously in Ireland they are really bad (and according to their own claimed law book will receive eternal damnation - unless they repent).
This new minister quoted to illustrate how he was going to work hard in Brighton, to show his message in action, to do HIS job.
stickman, Portslade says...
10:01am Sat 17 Oct 09
Juan Albion wrote:Ha Ha Ha. Thanks for the good laugh this morning.
stickman wrote:Surely not another fool who lays back in his own arrogance, having convinced himself that Christians don't actually think freely about or question what they believe? Well, if that's an example of your obviously very limited thinking abilities, I think I'll pass on atheism. Look around you for evidence that God exists. Science goes a long way to proving that God must exist if you actually bother to think it through.
upontheruth wrote: As usual the atheists come out to play on this website! Well HEAR this, St Peter's church is opening 1st of the month and things are going to change. Suck on your mints and head to Lewes where the air is wicken, because Christianity is back with no apologies!Atheists are everywhere - its what happens when you start thinking and questioning. How are things going to change? Have you finally found some evidence that god exists?
alyn, southwick, southwick says...
10:14am Sat 17 Oct 09
alyn, southwick wrote:I want to adjust what I said to make my point clearer:
Tony Hancock wrote:My first comments on this were: "Judge religious people by their own standards, and you'll see its not their religion but how its followers fail to follow their own rules that's caused problems." Yes people who 'call' them themselves "Catholic" or "Protestant" have been fighting and arguing with one another because they 'say' they're fighting for the "Catholic" or "Protestant" cause, but they are not. (I stated their real reasons.) I can 'call' myself a Policeman but it don't make me one. I can 'say' the sky is green, that doesn't mean I really believe it is. As far as the christian faith is concerned our bible says love even your enemies and turn the other cheek. Using this to judge those who act(ed) atrociously in Ireland they are really bad (and according to their own claimed law book will receive eternal damnation - unless they repent). This new minister quoted to illustrate how he was going to work hard in Brighton, to show his message in action, to do HIS job.alyn, southwick wrote:Well, if you spent time in Ireland (as I have myself) I'm surprised that you still don't appear to understand that religion is the ROOT CAUSE of the problems there - not politics. The whole Ireland problem is protestants versus catholics - has been for hundreds of years, long before Ireland was divided into north and south. You might call it an abuse of religion. But if that is what is done in the NAME of religion, I just see it as a very good reason to have nothing to do with any religion whatsoever.Thebuilderman wrote:You missed the brief point I made right at the beginning of these comments ITS THE ABUSE OF RELEGION THATS CAUSED PROBLEMS. For your information having spent time on evangelical duties in Northern Ireland for a church that is accepted across the world I do have some idea of the Irish situation (I don't know what time you spent in Ireland). There is so much killing because God refuses to make us robots we are accountable for our own actions or in-actions. I am upset at the ABUSE of religion, particularly my own (though I recognise other religions are victims/suffer too).Tony Hancock wrote:Here here if God is so great why does he allow such killing to go on what ever religion you are you should all be very upset with what has gone on through the years in the name of God.alyn, southwick wrote:I don't think you understand the irish problem at all. Religion and politics and totally intertwined and to say that the problems there are totally political is nonsense. Explain to me then why, in N Ireland, in Belfast, there is a catholic community and a protestant community - who are not integrated and never mix - but live in the same country. Explain all the sectarian violence of the last 40 years. Not catholic killing catholic, or protestant killing protestant. The Irish problem is TOTALLY about religious loyalties, and always has been. The mostly catholic south against the protestant minority in the north. And the fact that murder and maiming it's still going on in the 21st century in the name of religion, just shows what a nonsense all fundamentalist religions of any sort are. I'm glad the city I live in is godless. Long may it stay that way.Tye wrote: Free advert for the church ;-) Free advert for the church ;-) Free advert for the church ;-) Thought I'd help conor out :) Seriously though have you seen "brighton beach" TV prog. for example and how a local church has helped those who are drunk they work unsocial hours just because they want to help others there's no issue with "religion" per se just people who use it as an excuse or a defence for their behaviour- look at Ireland - vicious thugs blowing people to bits, blackmail and extortion and now they are inpositions of power - not what the catholic church supportsIreland was never about religion - it was always about politics. What did the terrorists want - either independence from Britain, or complete re-unification of the whole of the Ireland back to Britain (or just to fight on its own) - what's that got to do with religion. Religion was abused by those wanting to meet their own ends (just like I said before).
I can 'call' myself a Policeman but it don't make me one. I can 'say' I'm upholding the law as a Policeman but that doesn't mean I am. If I say this while robbing a bank...
Tony Hancock, 3 Railway Cuttings, East Cheam says...
11:02am Sat 17 Oct 09
Martinbpoole wrote:Speak for yourself. I am godless, in that I don't believe in any deity, supreme being, or whatever you like to call it. I don't believe in any organised religion of any sort, and I'm not interested in 'exploring spirituality' because I don't believe we have a 'spirit'.
Brighton people are not Godless, they're just not into church. The census question quoted here asked people about their religion but actually interest in spirituality of all kinds is higher here than in most places, it's just that organised religion is not very relevant to a lot of people. We need new ways of exploring spirituality like BEYOND www.beyondchurch.co. uk
However, I do believe in the simple philosophy:
Treat others as you would like others to treat you.
You don't need anything else.
AngieRS, Brighton says...
12:18pm Sat 17 Oct 09
Matthew 10:34-39
says: "Do not think that I have come to bring peace to the earth; I have
not come to bring peace, but a sword. For I have come to set a man against
his father, and a daughter against her mother, and a daughter-in-law
against her mother-in-law; and one's foes will be members of one's own
household. Whoever loves father or mother more than me is not worthy of
me; and whoever loves son or daughter more than me is not worthy of me;
and whoever does not take up the cross and follow me is not worthy of me.
Those who find their life will lose it, and those who lose their life for
my sake will find it."
Not a whole lot of love going on there...
Still, not too surprising from a bunch of folk who "speak in tongues" and roll about the floor. I find it's usually babies who do that but whatever floats your boat...
says: "Do not think that I have come to bring peace to the earth; I have
not come to bring peace, but a sword. For I have come to set a man against
his father, and a daughter against her mother, and a daughter-in-law
against her mother-in-law; and one's foes will be members of one's own
household. Whoever loves father or mother more than me is not worthy of
me; and whoever loves son or daughter more than me is not worthy of me;
and whoever does not take up the cross and follow me is not worthy of me.
Those who find their life will lose it, and those who lose their life for
my sake will find it."
Not a whole lot of love going on there...
Still, not too surprising from a bunch of folk who "speak in tongues" and roll about the floor. I find it's usually babies who do that but whatever floats your boat...
alyn, southwick, southwick says...
1:39pm Sat 17 Oct 09
OK, it now seems this thread is sunk to just knocking and making fun of others whose views don't match your own; sometimes for supposedly not allowing others to freely practice their own views and lifestyle; others times possibly misinterpreting or taking out of context the written guidebook for one particular religion. So its OK for others to express their own view freely but not for religious people to hold a different view to you.
So is it a case of you have a right to be different to me, but I can't be different to you!
So is it a case of you have a right to be different to me, but I can't be different to you!
Txa, B&H says...
1:51pm Sat 17 Oct 09
Tony Hancock wrote:I did sort of agree what you say Martin, but then on your posted link they are selling calendars, another commercial hypocrite church, not thanks. The truth is free and available to all, when money is involved be very suspicious.
Martinbpoole wrote: Brighton people are not Godless, they're just not into church. The census question quoted here asked people about their religion but actually interest in spirituality of all kinds is higher here than in most places, it's just that organised religion is not very relevant to a lot of people. We need new ways of exploring spirituality like BEYOND www.beyondchurch.co. ukSpeak for yourself. I am godless, in that I don't believe in any deity, supreme being, or whatever you like to call it. I don't believe in any organised religion of any sort, and I'm not interested in 'exploring spirituality' because I don't believe we have a 'spirit'. However, I do believe in the simple philosophy: Treat others as you would like others to treat you. You don't need anything else.
Tony, you're free to believe what you want, the fact it's what it's is you cannot change that and/or influence it in anyway, exactly the same for the believers. What it counts it's what you do. Good, if you in practice can treat other as you would like other to treat you, it's not as simple as it sounds (check your mental thoughts when you're with others). If we could treat others as our own selves, the world would be a better place though.
AngieRS, Brighton says...
3:56pm Sat 17 Oct 09
Yes, well, Alyn, seems to be a whole different story when christians start quoting chunks out of the bible at people, that's different then, is it?. It's not just the whole question of whether any god exists, it's a question of just how many folk put their own two pennorth into your bible so that they could gain power over a whole bunch of folk who didn't know any better. Well, we do now, and many of us question not only the existence of a god but why people such as yourself seem to think you have any right to imposing your flawed religion and morals on the rest of us. Who happen to be ok just as we are, thank you very muchly and that power, btw, just keeps on slipping and sliding away. That's what really hurts you people.
alyn, southwick, southwick says...
4:25pm Sat 17 Oct 09
AngieRS wrote:again you're not letting me have the rights you're demanding for yourself.
Yes, well, Alyn, seems to be a whole different story when christians start quoting chunks out of the bible at people, that's different then, is it?. It's not just the whole question of whether any god exists, it's a question of just how many folk put their own two pennorth into your bible so that they could gain power over a whole bunch of folk who didn't know any better. Well, we do now, and many of us question not only the existence of a god but why people such as yourself seem to think you have any right to imposing your flawed religion and morals on the rest of us. Who happen to be ok just as we are, thank you very muchly and that power, btw, just keeps on slipping and sliding away. That's what really hurts you people.
I fight for everyone to have the same rights - you don't deserve to be tarred with the same brush as someone else, so why do so for me, or for any other religious person (whatever your belief).
"What really hurts" me is people not listening, but then acusing me of not listening (or in this case reading).
Do you know me - if not don't judge me, because you're not judging me your judging someone else, someone who as I've already stated elsewhere may be guilty, (also as I've stated before) more guilty because they've not only broken your terms of existing with them, but their own, too.
David Panter, Kemp Town says...
5:47pm Sat 17 Oct 09
"alyn, southwick, southwick says...
1:39pm Sat 17 Oct 09
OK, it now seems this thread is sunk to just knocking and making fun of others whose views don't match your own;"
err.... I thought that's what the Argus website was for...
1:39pm Sat 17 Oct 09
OK, it now seems this thread is sunk to just knocking and making fun of others whose views don't match your own;"
err.... I thought that's what the Argus website was for...
robsurmer, Brighton says...
7:35pm Sat 17 Oct 09
Could all you religious and not religious nuts please be quiet...I'm getting one of my heads
AngieRS, Brighton says...
7:39pm Sat 17 Oct 09
I not denying your rights. You've been commenting on here freely enough and elsewhere probably. I've not been sending secret emails to the Editor imploring him to stop publishing your replies. I take it that you are sending these responses from a room in your house or flat. Nobody has trampled down the door and taken your computer away. Nothing stopping you from using an internet cafe. Equally, there is not any form of barrier either physical or legal stopping you from going to your place of worship or anywhere else for that matter. Speakers Corner still exists in Hyde Park, you and your ilk are free to harangue passers-by with chosen passages from the bible pretty much wherever you like. Why, you're even free to to go to a legal centre and make spurious claims about being denied religious freedoms.
You're free to twist the truth and lie like dogs as the situation commands, make ill-informed scare-mongering judgements about scientific fact (tiny holes in condoms letting through the AIDS virus is a cracker but just one of many.) Hey, you're even free to come to a lovely place like Brighton, accuse us all of being ungodly and try to demonise us.
But, the minute someone says, "Hold on a minute..." Then your religious freedoms are under threat. You whine and whinge about how the militant atheists are decrying religion and complain when people don't understand how you can base your faith on a collection of hand me down pamphlets written by a bunch of men whose only aim in life was to accrue enough power to themselves to give them an easy life. There is not one thing written down in your bible which actually proves, beyond any shadow of a doubt, that your god, or any other exists. I mean, after 2,000 years of mankind killing each other, you'd think, by now, that the supreme being who supposedly invented us, would have said, "Look, here I am. I exist, now put down the b****y guns and behave yourselves." Thing is, even if he did, I'd be asking, "Ok, you made us, who made you?" I mean, someone must have, or did he evolve...
You're free to twist the truth and lie like dogs as the situation commands, make ill-informed scare-mongering judgements about scientific fact (tiny holes in condoms letting through the AIDS virus is a cracker but just one of many.) Hey, you're even free to come to a lovely place like Brighton, accuse us all of being ungodly and try to demonise us.
But, the minute someone says, "Hold on a minute..." Then your religious freedoms are under threat. You whine and whinge about how the militant atheists are decrying religion and complain when people don't understand how you can base your faith on a collection of hand me down pamphlets written by a bunch of men whose only aim in life was to accrue enough power to themselves to give them an easy life. There is not one thing written down in your bible which actually proves, beyond any shadow of a doubt, that your god, or any other exists. I mean, after 2,000 years of mankind killing each other, you'd think, by now, that the supreme being who supposedly invented us, would have said, "Look, here I am. I exist, now put down the b****y guns and behave yourselves." Thing is, even if he did, I'd be asking, "Ok, you made us, who made you?" I mean, someone must have, or did he evolve...
Vany2010, Brighton And Hove says...
9:13pm Sat 17 Oct 09
Godless?What are We?The Coptic Orthodox Church,Thousands of People Every Sunday hundreds of People Are Gathered Together to Praise Our Lord
aseeker, says...
11:09pm Sat 17 Oct 09
God isn't the problem , we are! It is man that murders , wages war , destroys the enviroment etc. Just rememeber though , all things of this world will pass , what you have now you probably won't have in 10 years from now , and if a tidal wave hits next week there is nothing you can do , your looks , your clothes , your house , your car , your ipod , your phone whatever it is you value today will be gone tomorrow. But God will still be around in another 2000 years!!!
MichaelParks, Brighton says...
11:18pm Sat 17 Oct 09
Actually God did reveal himself to us. And you know what? We didn't believe. He parted the Red Sea, sent manna from heaven. And we still disobeyed him. As for people putting together a load of pamphlets to try to gain power 2000 years ago? Well most of the leaders of the early church gave all of their possessions away and ultimately died for their faith because they would not reject their God. Seems a strange ploy to gain power. No really the "easy life" as you put it. But then you wouldn't know that because you haven't explored the facts. Strong minded person like you wouldn't be afraid of going on the Alpha course would you? Of course not. Hear come the excuses.....
MichaelParks, Brighton says...
11:42pm Sat 17 Oct 09
DC78 wrote:see there you go assuming again. All I said was that Pride (which is a rally promoting gay rights) is free to be vocal but you were NOT happy for Christians to be vocal. Did I at any point say that I condemned homosexuals? No. Why? Because I'm a Christian and Christians don't condemn people. Why? Because we are commanded not judge others. Please, please, please stop assuming that you know what Christians believe because you really don't. Think I'm talking rubbish. Open a bible (or use www.biblegatway.org) and look up John 8:1-11. You'll find that Jesus taught us not to judge anyone.
@Michael Parks
Sorry if Pride is imposed on the people of Brighton. Especially the traders who rely on the small fortune that they recieve from the visitors who impose all over their shops and bars and restaurants for the day and erm, the next day... the swines!!
Lets complain next about the VW rally, imposing down here with their ungodly chariots of camper vans!
shout 'faith' from the roof tops however you like.. whatever faith means? I am all for it??
You then quote the bible, as if it has any kind of authority... 'the bible is pretty clear about not imposing your views on other people'... after having made your views very clear on sexuality. Hiporcite! You better be on your knees after that one...!! Repenting to your imaginary god... if not, come over to my place on your knees!!
You've been brainwashed by the media into believing things about Christians that aren't true.
greeg, glasgow says...
12:50am Sun 18 Oct 09
"God is not great" by Christopher Hitchins will set you all straight.
greeg, glasgow says...
1:09am Sun 18 Oct 09
greeg wrote:Hitchens i meant.
"God is not great" by Christopher Hitchins will set you all straight.
DC78, Saltdean says...
2:28am Sun 18 Oct 09
MichaelParks wrote:Michael you did say that pride was "imposed on the people of Brighton", you didn't mention any other events in the city which might be construed as imposed on the people of Brighton, such as the festival, the brighton carnival, the food festival, the VW rally, The London to Brighton bike ride. You chose to state that pride was imposed on the people and Michael, that reaks of homophobia and no fair minded person would think otherwise.
DC78 wrote: @Michael Parks Sorry if Pride is imposed on the people of Brighton. Especially the traders who rely on the small fortune that they recieve from the visitors who impose all over their shops and bars and restaurants for the day and erm, the next day... the swines!! Lets complain next about the VW rally, imposing down here with their ungodly chariots of camper vans! shout 'faith' from the roof tops however you like.. whatever faith means? I am all for it?? You then quote the bible, as if it has any kind of authority... 'the bible is pretty clear about not imposing your views on other people'... after having made your views very clear on sexuality. Hiporcite! You better be on your knees after that one...!! Repenting to your imaginary god... if not, come over to my place on your knees!!see there you go assuming again. All I said was that Pride (which is a rally promoting gay rights) is free to be vocal but you were NOT happy for Christians to be vocal. Did I at any point say that I condemned homosexuals? No. Why? Because I'm a Christian and Christians don't condemn people. Why? Because we are commanded not judge others. Please, please, please stop assuming that you know what Christians believe because you really don't. Think I'm talking rubbish. Open a bible (or use www.biblegatway.org) and look up John 8:1-11. You'll find that Jesus taught us not to judge anyone. You've been brainwashed by the media into believing things about Christians that aren't true.
You then decide to quote the bible. A book which I already said I don't consider having any kind of authority.. however you quote a passage that Jesus taught us not to jude anyone. Then immediately after that you decide to judge me.. "You've been brainwashed..." You don't know me or anything about me. Can you back up this claim with evidence or was it speculative and judgemental? You did judge me and I stand by my premise that you are a hipocrite.
AngieRS, Brighton says...
11:08am Sun 18 Oct 09
Actually, Michael Parks, the ONLY proof you have that your god revealed himself is based on that unproven bundle of pamplets you seem to hold dear. What proof do you have that these early leaders were penniless, not that I was talking about wealth as power, power in those days wasn't based on how much money you had but how big a following you could command.
You look on this book as if it was it was the fountain of all knowledge yet you have NO PROOF of anything said within it and where one part contradicts another, as it does, throughout it's length, you make feeble excuses for it. I'm still waiting for someone to explain to me where this god of love for all things on earth comes down here and tells us that unless we love him first and no other, he'll kill us. As quoted in Mathew. Sounds an absolute charmer, I can see why you want people to meet him.
But, hey, why should I have to be strong willed to be able to go on an alpha course and ignore it? Are you saying that only the weak willed get converted because they are more susceptible to the brain washing techniques you employ on the course?
By the way, I don't need excuses to ignore your invitation. Nice try though, you trying to make it look as if I'm the one at fault, to scared to be proved wrong etc. Is that how your alpha courses work then? Tearing down folks self esteem and then building it back up again but only with your gods help? Pretty shabby work then, but that's about the standard for you people really. Slightest bit of criticism and all of a sudden your rights are being impinged upon, it's a funny old world when you whine about your rights being ignored yet are only too willing to impose your will on others and thus flout their rights.
No, you keep using that book for the emotional prop that it is, but do the rest of us all a favour, keep it to yourself, there's a good christian person.
You look on this book as if it was it was the fountain of all knowledge yet you have NO PROOF of anything said within it and where one part contradicts another, as it does, throughout it's length, you make feeble excuses for it. I'm still waiting for someone to explain to me where this god of love for all things on earth comes down here and tells us that unless we love him first and no other, he'll kill us. As quoted in Mathew. Sounds an absolute charmer, I can see why you want people to meet him.
But, hey, why should I have to be strong willed to be able to go on an alpha course and ignore it? Are you saying that only the weak willed get converted because they are more susceptible to the brain washing techniques you employ on the course?
By the way, I don't need excuses to ignore your invitation. Nice try though, you trying to make it look as if I'm the one at fault, to scared to be proved wrong etc. Is that how your alpha courses work then? Tearing down folks self esteem and then building it back up again but only with your gods help? Pretty shabby work then, but that's about the standard for you people really. Slightest bit of criticism and all of a sudden your rights are being impinged upon, it's a funny old world when you whine about your rights being ignored yet are only too willing to impose your will on others and thus flout their rights.
No, you keep using that book for the emotional prop that it is, but do the rest of us all a favour, keep it to yourself, there's a good christian person.
alyn, southwick, southwick says...
11:46am Sun 18 Oct 09
AngieRS wrote:Proof of the existence of the characters either written about or who have contributed to the writings held dear by christians (whether these characters were deified, sanctified or vilified) comes from archaeological and ancient writings of people outside of the characters so mentioned; Roman, ancient Hebrew; Arabic; Egyptian; Greek, to name a few. These archaeological and other ancient writings are used to formulate our understanding of the whole of our world history not just the religious beliefs that have been formulated from the writings and characters they provide evidence of existance, and their social standing, whatever religious importance has been applied to them by people prior or since.
Actually, Michael Parks, the ONLY proof you have that your god revealed himself is based on that unproven bundle of pamplets you seem to hold dear. What proof do you have that these early leaders were penniless, not that I was talking about wealth as power, power in those days wasn't based on how much money you had but how big a following you could command. You look on this book as if it was it was the fountain of all knowledge yet you have NO PROOF of anything said within it and where one part contradicts another, as it does, throughout it's length, you make feeble excuses for it. I'm still waiting for someone to explain to me where this god of love for all things on earth comes down here and tells us that unless we love him first and no other, he'll kill us. As quoted in Mathew. Sounds an absolute charmer, I can see why you want people to meet him. But, hey, why should I have to be strong willed to be able to go on an alpha course and ignore it? Are you saying that only the weak willed get converted because they are more susceptible to the brain washing techniques you employ on the course? By the way, I don't need excuses to ignore your invitation. Nice try though, you trying to make it look as if I'm the one at fault, to scared to be proved wrong etc. Is that how your alpha courses work then? Tearing down folks self esteem and then building it back up again but only with your gods help? Pretty shabby work then, but that's about the standard for you people really. Slightest bit of criticism and all of a sudden your rights are being impinged upon, it's a funny old world when you whine about your rights being ignored yet are only too willing to impose your will on others and thus flout their rights. No, you keep using that book for the emotional prop that it is, but do the rest of us all a favour, keep it to yourself, there's a good christian person.
The same evidence can be and is used by followers of other religions, too (and the use of them has the backing of academic professionals from all faiths and none - albeit sometimes qualified).
The point is we should all be allowed to believe what we will, so long as it does not impinge on the activities and right of others to believe what they will, and to explain our beliefs including (like you, I and others here) trying to persuade/sell our beliefs to others.
I accept your right not to believe.
pun master, Hove says...
5:42pm Sun 18 Oct 09
What? Most of Hove are religious... Well, all the families who want their kids to go to Cottesmore or St Andrews school anyway. There seems to be a whole rash of 'new Christians' around about school application time each year...
Tye, Pembroke says...
7:14pm Sun 18 Oct 09
doesn't anyone think thatmore things change the more things remain the same - a 100 years ago and you said a certain word you'd be considered godless, evil and loose your job- now we can say those words and we think we have freedon - however you now say a couple of words and suddenly you're homophobic or racist, get persecuted and loose your jobs possibly#See how things have improved?
roseyposey, Brighton says...
7:24pm Sun 18 Oct 09
Welcome to Brighton Archie and Sam! Wonderful news! Will be so great to see the shining light of St Peter's in the centre of Brighton again. Looking forward to visiting - exciting stuff!
AngieRS, Brighton says...
7:43pm Sun 18 Oct 09
Proof of the existence of characters mentioned in the bible does not in itself extend proof to either the existence of god or miracles. It is a simple matter to make mention of Herod or Constantine or of figures in history previous to christ, that in itself does not lend credence to the veracity of the existence of a god. While there is plenty of archaeological evidence of these figures there is none which points to the existence of a god except in the bible. A tome which has been written and re-written by many people, all eager to put their own slant on it and that still happens today, homophobes who say your god disapproves of homosexuals, for example, people who selectively quote Liviticus yet do not live by the many laws it purports to be the word of god. Smacks of double standards there...
No, you can't have your cake and it eat. You can try but people usually see through it.
No, you can't have your cake and it eat. You can try but people usually see through it.
Variable, Brighton says...
8:15pm Sun 18 Oct 09
I am an avowed atheist, but I have met many fine people who do good things in the name of Christianity, and without any attempt to proselytise or recruit.
I'll judge this project on its deeds.
I'll judge this project on its deeds.
alyn, southwick, southwick says...
8:50pm Sun 18 Oct 09
AngieRS wrote:I couldn't agree with you more.
Proof of the existence of characters mentioned in the bible does not in itself extend proof to either the existence of god or miracles. It is a simple matter to make mention of Herod or Constantine or of figures in history previous to christ, that in itself does not lend credence to the veracity of the existence of a god. While there is plenty of archaeological evidence of these figures there is none which points to the existence of a god except in the bible. A tome which has been written and re-written by many people, all eager to put their own slant on it and that still happens today, homophobes who say your god disapproves of homosexuals, for example, people who selectively quote Liviticus yet do not live by the many laws it purports to be the word of god. Smacks of double standards there... No, you can't have your cake and it eat. You can try but people usually see through it.
my first words on this subject were "Judge religious people by their own standards".
Yep i think religious people with double standards are far more wrong than any with none or different standards. (And before i get accused of saying people with different standards are wrong, that is something I've just gotta wait and see about - either when I just cease or get sent up or down!)
This new vicar at St Peter's is just another guy making sure people are given his facts for them to make their choice on, if they want to.
baldseagull, crawley says...
9:42pm Sun 18 Oct 09
God retired from smiting, flooding and general mass murder for misdeeds some years ago and moved to Eastbourne (where he opened a waiting room).
These days thermal currents, plate tectonics, the Sun and the moon are responsible for "acts of God".
No amount of worshipping will build homes for the homeless, bring sobriety to the drug addicted or chastity to sex workers.
Kick the remaining parishoners out and turn the church into a brothel if you want to keep sexworkers from harm, or bedsits for the homeless or a place for the smackheads to shoot up with supervision.
These days thermal currents, plate tectonics, the Sun and the moon are responsible for "acts of God".
No amount of worshipping will build homes for the homeless, bring sobriety to the drug addicted or chastity to sex workers.
Kick the remaining parishoners out and turn the church into a brothel if you want to keep sexworkers from harm, or bedsits for the homeless or a place for the smackheads to shoot up with supervision.
MichaelParks, Brighton says...
8:13am Mon 19 Oct 09
AngieRS wrote:Angie, you make some really good points. I don't think it's reasonable for people to pick on individuals for perceived sins. The homosexuality debate rages in the church and it frustrates me that the church sometimes focuses more on what divides it then unites it. But it has survived for 2000 years for a reason and is growing for a reason too.
Proof of the existence of characters mentioned in the bible does not in itself extend proof to either the existence of god or miracles. It is a simple matter to make mention of Herod or Constantine or of figures in history previous to christ, that in itself does not lend credence to the veracity of the existence of a god. While there is plenty of archaeological evidence of these figures there is none which points to the existence of a god except in the bible. A tome which has been written and re-written by many people, all eager to put their own slant on it and that still happens today, homophobes who say your god disapproves of homosexuals, for example, people who selectively quote Liviticus yet do not live by the many laws it purports to be the word of god. Smacks of double standards there...
No, you can't have your cake and it eat. You can try but people usually see through it.
As for the proof of the existence of God, you're absolutely right. There is no proof. Although people with faith would argue that they do develop a very real relationship with God and for my part - that's my proof. It's not ignorance or lack of schooling or a weak will that has got me to where I am. Well I hope not anyway!
I'm sorry that you are angry with the church and I can certainly understand your frustration with religion. Unfortunately when man get's hold of anything - including the word of God, he has a habit of using it unwisely and sometimes in self interest. No wonder people tar God with the same brush as his followers! We often make a hash of things and not always for altruistic reasons. But amazing things have also been done in the name of God and that cannot be a bad thing.
Anyway, I'm looking forward to seeing whether St Peters lives by what it preaches and does something for the issues in our city. As for spreading the good news about God, let's agree to disagree about whether that's a bad idea. I'm going to continue praying/contributing as far as I can to the city. No doubt you will do what you feel your moral compass tells you too.
It's an interesting debate which will I'm sure will run and run. God Bless, and apologies for any offence caused.
Martinbpoole, Hove says...
10:06am Mon 19 Oct 09
Txa wrote:Of course there is a total range of people in Brighton & Hove from those who like the term Godless to those who don't, I just want to point out that asking people about their religion, as the census did, is not quite the same as asking if they believe in anything spiritual.
Tony Hancock wrote:I did sort of agree what you say Martin, but then on your posted link they are selling calendars, another commercial hypocrite church, not thanks. The truth is free and available to all, when money is involved be very suspicious.
Martinbpoole wrote: Brighton people are not Godless, they're just not into church. The census question quoted here asked people about their religion but actually interest in spirituality of all kinds is higher here than in most places, it's just that organised religion is not very relevant to a lot of people. We need new ways of exploring spirituality like BEYOND www.beyondchurch.co. ukSpeak for yourself. I am godless, in that I don't believe in any deity, supreme being, or whatever you like to call it. I don't believe in any organised religion of any sort, and I'm not interested in 'exploring spirituality' because I don't believe we have a 'spirit'. However, I do believe in the simple philosophy: Treat others as you would like others to treat you. You don't need anything else.
Tony, you're free to believe what you want, the fact it's what it's is you cannot change that and/or influence it in anyway, exactly the same for the believers. What it counts it's what you do. Good, if you in practice can treat other as you would like other to treat you, it's not as simple as it sounds (check your mental thoughts when you're with others). If we could treat others as our own selves, the world would be a better place though.
Thanks for looking at the Beyond website Txa, the calendar is our first attempt to raise any money by providing something beautiful and artistic that people actually want rather than expecting people to support our work by donation as most churches do. So far the Diocese has stumped up all the money for everything we've done. When you see the calendar I hope you'll agree that it's a worthwhile contribution to the artistic life of our city in the same way that the Advent Beach Hut Calendar was last year and will be again this year.
Txa, B&H says...
12:42pm Mon 19 Oct 09
I'll try to answer in a polite way Martin (nice calendar promotion btw). Can you not understand that spirituality is not for sale, that there are not religion institution that own the Truth that belongs to all, however big or small your religious community is. That the Truth is Free and Available for Free to everybody that Looks For it. That selling lovely calendars has nothing to be with spirituality.?
Mr. Kipling, Hove says...
2:14pm Mon 19 Oct 09
Well, as long as the christians don't take it upon themselves to picket every heavy metal gig in the city cos they`d be wasting their time. I think it`s time to bring Marilyn Manson to town lol. Joking aside however, I don`t really care about them saying that because I don`t believe in God or the church but I do believe in their right to believe in it, just not in anyone's right to shove it down my throat.
joe le'mott, hove says...
2:32pm Mon 19 Oct 09
If we are a Godless city, it's because we have chosen to be that way. religion CAN be a wonderful thing, if it is taken for what it is meant to be, a guideline to live a good and moral life. but it gets hijacked and used by people wanting to show how bad we all are compared to them. I hate people who push their religion onto others! im not anti religion in anyway but if religion wants to survive the 21st century and the destroy the reputation being built for it by a select few of extremists and right wing dinosaurs then it needs to learn to co exist with science.
MichaelParks, Brighton says...
4:15pm Mon 19 Oct 09
I'm calling time. Not once did the Rev Coates call anyone bad or evil or do anything other than talk about taking part (taking part) in the transformation of Brighton society. With the issues of homelessness and drug abuse at the levels they are at in this city, I take my hat off to him and wish him luck. Have any of you actually watched the video that was posted? From the comments on here about homophobia etc I assume not. Cool down. Watch the video. Then comment.
www.htb.org.uk/brigh
ton
I take my hat off to them and wish them luck, although in honesty there are a fair few churches in Brighton already.
www.htb.org.uk/brigh
ton
I take my hat off to them and wish them luck, although in honesty there are a fair few churches in Brighton already.
Brighton Chav , Patcham says...
6:39pm Mon 19 Oct 09
I the greatest respect fro the gentlman who feels that he can transform Brighton . I am not sure that I agree with the construct of the word God as permanent entity . Like all things the christian teaching is waning from Brighton which is fine from my perspective and the idea of having a bbuilding like St. peters is certainly going to be challenging for Christia worship . Brighton is a pluralistic city with many other religions who do not worship a permanent entity such as God . I have no intention of slandering those who gain such great pleasure and spiritual experience through worship of a permanent entity . However I consider that there has to be the uptmost respect on both sides and tolerance of theistic teachings and non theistic teachings . The days of authoritarian Christian dogmatism are well and truly over . The Christians are not doing themselves any favours by the homophobic stance in some denominations , especially in Brighton .
Dave in Hastings, Hastings says...
10:15pm Mon 19 Oct 09
Wow! Just looked in here again to see that I have been accused of not having an open mind, presumably because I believe in scientifically proven FACTS, not mumbo-jumbo creationist twaddle.
@ Alyn - if you religious types are really so keen on people having an open mind, how come religions want to brainwash kids at an early age before they can think for themselves?
We don't need religion to lead moral lives - as someone said earlier, 'do as you would be done by' just about covers it.
@ Alyn - if you religious types are really so keen on people having an open mind, how come religions want to brainwash kids at an early age before they can think for themselves?
We don't need religion to lead moral lives - as someone said earlier, 'do as you would be done by' just about covers it.
alyn, southwick, southwick says...
7:55am Tue 20 Oct 09
Sorry you think I'm accusing you of something you personally are not, in the same way I think you are accusing me of something I hope I'm not.
SOME "religious types" (or people who just call themselves religious), are definitely not open minded - as I've said time and time again on here, with explanations, yet again in answer to my comment about being open-minded by re-quoting what has been said before I get tarred with the same brush as those who aren't.
It's obvious from the many good works done by non-religious people you don't have to be religious to be moral, but religious people think their faith is one way of helping themselves to be better and don't want to be selfish and keep it to themselves. (This applies to many of different faith - many of whom are highly educated, just like many non-religious "types", and have spent years making up their minds, just like many non-religious "types", many without the persuasion of others.)
Yes there are SOME who share their faith just to build up their own groups rather than help others, but it's NOT ALL of them.
I too don't like people who shove their ideas (whether religious or not) down other peoples throats.
I too like it that there a many moral people out there doing a lot of good work (whether religious or not).
I too believe in scientifically proven FACTS, but there is still plenty science can't answer, and I and others (of many different faiths), believe our faith provides the answer. (Indeed with only minor adjustment these beliefs have even, though the answer was formulated and recorded BEFORE we had the wealth of scientifically proven FACTS we have now, been proved correct by scientifically proven methods - which I and others find too coincidental.)
SOME "religious types" (or people who just call themselves religious), are definitely not open minded - as I've said time and time again on here, with explanations, yet again in answer to my comment about being open-minded by re-quoting what has been said before I get tarred with the same brush as those who aren't.
It's obvious from the many good works done by non-religious people you don't have to be religious to be moral, but religious people think their faith is one way of helping themselves to be better and don't want to be selfish and keep it to themselves. (This applies to many of different faith - many of whom are highly educated, just like many non-religious "types", and have spent years making up their minds, just like many non-religious "types", many without the persuasion of others.)
Yes there are SOME who share their faith just to build up their own groups rather than help others, but it's NOT ALL of them.
I too don't like people who shove their ideas (whether religious or not) down other peoples throats.
I too like it that there a many moral people out there doing a lot of good work (whether religious or not).
I too believe in scientifically proven FACTS, but there is still plenty science can't answer, and I and others (of many different faiths), believe our faith provides the answer. (Indeed with only minor adjustment these beliefs have even, though the answer was formulated and recorded BEFORE we had the wealth of scientifically proven FACTS we have now, been proved correct by scientifically proven methods - which I and others find too coincidental.)
alyn, southwick, southwick says...
8:04am Tue 20 Oct 09
@Dave in Hastings
Kids brain-washed that's quite a severe accusation.
Kids brain-washed that's quite a severe accusation.
logicub, Brighton says...
5:25pm Tue 20 Oct 09
MichaelParks wrote:Wow. Now there's wishful thinking... In what sense, exactly, is your bizarre little tradition "growing"?
AngieRS wrote:Angie, you make some really good points. I don't think it's reasonable for people to pick on individuals for perceived sins. The homosexuality debate rages in the church and it frustrates me that the church sometimes focuses more on what divides it then unites it. But it has survived for 2000 years for a reason and is growing for a reason too.
Proof of the existence of characters mentioned in the bible does not in itself extend proof to either the existence of god or miracles. It is a simple matter to make mention of Herod or Constantine or of figures in history previous to christ, that in itself does not lend credence to the veracity of the existence of a god. While there is plenty of archaeological evidence of these figures there is none which points to the existence of a god except in the bible. A tome which has been written and re-written by many people, all eager to put their own slant on it and that still happens today, homophobes who say your god disapproves of homosexuals, for example, people who selectively quote Liviticus yet do not live by the many laws it purports to be the word of god. Smacks of double standards there...
No, you can't have your cake and it eat. You can try but people usually see through it.
As for the proof of the existence of God, you're absolutely right. There is no proof. Although people with faith would argue that they do develop a very real relationship with God and for my part - that's my proof. It's not ignorance or lack of schooling or a weak will that has got me to where I am. Well I hope not anyway!
I'm sorry that you are angry with the church and I can certainly understand your frustration with religion. Unfortunately when man get's hold of anything - including the word of God, he has a habit of using it unwisely and sometimes in self interest. No wonder people tar God with the same brush as his followers! We often make a hash of things and not always for altruistic reasons. But amazing things have also been done in the name of God and that cannot be a bad thing.
Anyway, I'm looking forward to seeing whether St Peters lives by what it preaches and does something for the issues in our city. As for spreading the good news about God, let's agree to disagree about whether that's a bad idea. I'm going to continue praying/contributing as far as I can to the city. No doubt you will do what you feel your moral compass tells you too.
It's an interesting debate which will I'm sure will run and run. God Bless, and apologies for any offence caused.
If you do any kind of research on the subject (an activity that religious folk generally like to shy away from, I know) you will find that yours, and most other religions, are experiencing a rapid decline in membership.
People are thinking for themselves these days, we have real answers that don't rely on falling back to the safety net the invisible sky man...
ABC1, Brighton says...
9:43am Wed 21 Oct 09
"For those that believe, no proof is necessary. For those who do not want to believe, no proof could ever be sufficent".
As relevant today as when spoken by Thomas Aquinas many years ago.
As relevant today as when spoken by Thomas Aquinas many years ago.
logicub, Brighton says...
5:42pm Wed 21 Oct 09
ABC1 wrote:Why is it "Those that believe" and "Those that don't want to believe"?
"For those that believe, no proof is necessary. For those who do not want to believe, no proof could ever be sufficent".
As relevant today as when spoken by Thomas Aquinas many years ago.
Why not, "Those that don't believe" and "Those that refuse to see sense"? Or... "Those that can see the world around them for what it really is" and "Those that believe that the world they see through their rose-tinted specs is the world as it really is"?
It's a rhetorical question of course, I know the answer... Word play is the best weapon that religious folk have to try and sway people over to their side. You have no evidence, no reason, no prizes... The best that can be done is to play with people's minds in a hope that they, one day, will meet your baby cheezes.
psr6629, Eastbourne says...
10:40am Thu 22 Oct 09
logicub "You have no evidence, no reason, no prizes" Consider this gap between objective and subjective realities. Pregnancy has never and can never have any direct effect on teeth, gums yes, teeth no. Eating more sweets, pastries and fruit, going to the dentist for the first time and having "catch-up treatment", especially since it is free and there are a lot of shyster dentists out there, coupled with the predominant cultural "belief/ anecdotal EVIDENCE" that the teeth are losing calcium, all create a perception that the impossible is happening. There are REASONS why this treatment was made free and remains free under the NHS, but these are not based on the physiological impossibility of hormone-based calcium depletion from teeth. The PRIZE is free treatment under the NHS. Evidence, reason and prizes do not necessarily indicate an objective reality. Does there absence invariably indicate the converse? Atoms were around before we discovered them.
Teila82, Brighton says...
4:39pm Thu 22 Oct 09
Aren't we missing the point of Brighton? It's a place to be who you want to be with out judgement, reagdless o whether you are gay, a "sinner", catholic, muslim. Every one is entitled to a view, but don't impose it on others. If you have faith, great, fi you don't, thats great too.
It's about being who you want to be in a plce where every one is welcome. It's silly to say that your welcome if your LGB but not if your religious. I think some people here are forgetting tolerance.
Whether you're religious or not, St Peter's church is a place that every one knows and most love, just for the beauty of it. If they want to put a congregation in there, so be it, I fail to see how this should be a problem to those who don't go to church anyway.
If you are religious, then it's not your business if Brighton is "godless" do what you do and let other do the same.
It's about being who you want to be in a plce where every one is welcome. It's silly to say that your welcome if your LGB but not if your religious. I think some people here are forgetting tolerance.
Whether you're religious or not, St Peter's church is a place that every one knows and most love, just for the beauty of it. If they want to put a congregation in there, so be it, I fail to see how this should be a problem to those who don't go to church anyway.
If you are religious, then it's not your business if Brighton is "godless" do what you do and let other do the same.
elfinbrighton, Brighton says...
5:20pm Thu 22 Oct 09
psr6629 wrote:Wow - a bait 'n switch AND a complete non sequitur in one reply? Way to mangle English, logic and lateral thinking. Please describe the mental processes taking place that actually give these discordant "ideas" a relationship of some sort in your head.
logicub "You have no evidence, no reason, no prizes" Consider this gap between objective and subjective realities. Pregnancy has never and can never have any direct effect on teeth, gums yes, teeth no. Eating more sweets, pastries and fruit, going to the dentist for the first time and having "catch-up treatment", especially since it is free and there are a lot of shyster dentists out there, coupled with the predominant cultural "belief/ anecdotal EVIDENCE" that the teeth are losing calcium, all create a perception that the impossible is happening. There are REASONS why this treatment was made free and remains free under the NHS, but these are not based on the physiological impossibility of hormone-based calcium depletion from teeth. The PRIZE is free treatment under the NHS. Evidence, reason and prizes do not necessarily indicate an objective reality. Does there absence invariably indicate the converse? Atoms were around before we discovered them.
Security word: drug-rest. I'd follow the advice.
elfinbrighton, Brighton says...
5:25pm Thu 22 Oct 09
Teila82 wrote:Being gay isn't a belief system. Religion is. Gay people don't provide a "socially acceptable" framework inside which the extremist nutters proliferate to try and foist their "laws" on the rest of us. Religious people do. Gay people don't try to prevent children being educated because evidence-based education disagrees with their holy books. Religious people do. Being gay is not dangerous to society as a whole. Being religious is.
Aren't we missing the point of Brighton? It's a place to be who you want to be with out judgement, reagdless o whether you are gay, a "sinner", catholic, muslim. Every one is entitled to a view, but don't impose it on others. If you have faith, great, fi you don't, thats great too.
It's about being who you want to be in a plce where every one is welcome. It's silly to say that your welcome if your LGB but not if your religious. I think some people here are forgetting tolerance.
Whether you're religious or not, St Peter's church is a place that every one knows and most love, just for the beauty of it. If they want to put a congregation in there, so be it, I fail to see how this should be a problem to those who don't go to church anyway.
If you are religious, then it's not your business if Brighton is "godless" do what you do and let other do the same.
MichaelParks, Brighton says...
7:59pm Thu 22 Oct 09
elfinbrighton wrote:please will someone tell me where you all got this belief that St Peters vicar is in some way a homophobic. I suggest that you may be guilty of the same prejudice that you are accusing him of. Get over yourselves. Why don't you actually take a look at what he has to say on his website or something, rather than taking what this article says at face value. Really is very sad that those who feel they are being judged choose to judge others.
Teila82 wrote:Being gay isn't a belief system. Religion is. Gay people don't provide a "socially acceptable" framework inside which the extremist nutters proliferate to try and foist their "laws" on the rest of us. Religious people do. Gay people don't try to prevent children being educated because evidence-based education disagrees with their holy books. Religious people do. Being gay is not dangerous to society as a whole. Being religious is.
Aren't we missing the point of Brighton? It's a place to be who you want to be with out judgement, reagdless o whether you are gay, a "sinner", catholic, muslim. Every one is entitled to a view, but don't impose it on others. If you have faith, great, fi you don't, thats great too.
It's about being who you want to be in a plce where every one is welcome. It's silly to say that your welcome if your LGB but not if your religious. I think some people here are forgetting tolerance.
Whether you're religious or not, St Peter's church is a place that every one knows and most love, just for the beauty of it. If they want to put a congregation in there, so be it, I fail to see how this should be a problem to those who don't go to church anyway.
If you are religious, then it's not your business if Brighton is "godless" do what you do and let other do the same.
logicub, Brighton says...
8:35am Fri 23 Oct 09
MichaelParks wrote:Hi there Michael, do you want to read the comment that elfinbrighton quoted and then come back to try again?
elfinbrighton wrote:please will someone tell me where you all got this belief that St Peters vicar is in some way a homophobic. I suggest that you may be guilty of the same prejudice that you are accusing him of. Get over yourselves. Why don't you actually take a look at what he has to say on his website or something, rather than taking what this article says at face value. Really is very sad that those who feel they are being judged choose to judge others.Teila82 wrote: Aren't we missing the point of Brighton? It's a place to be who you want to be with out judgement, reagdless o whether you are gay, a "sinner", catholic, muslim. Every one is entitled to a view, but don't impose it on others. If you have faith, great, fi you don't, thats great too. It's about being who you want to be in a plce where every one is welcome. It's silly to say that your welcome if your LGB but not if your religious. I think some people here are forgetting tolerance. Whether you're religious or not, St Peter's church is a place that every one knows and most love, just for the beauty of it. If they want to put a congregation in there, so be it, I fail to see how this should be a problem to those who don't go to church anyway. If you are religious, then it's not your business if Brighton is "godless" do what you do and let other do the same.Being gay isn't a belief system. Religion is. Gay people don't provide a "socially acceptable" framework inside which the extremist nutters proliferate to try and foist their "laws" on the rest of us. Religious people do. Gay people don't try to prevent children being educated because evidence-based education disagrees with their holy books. Religious people do. Being gay is not dangerous to society as a whole. Being religious is.
Teila was comparing being gay to being religious. Whilst that would be an expected viewpoint to from someone who *knows* that their god is true, just, and cares about every little thing they do, there's absolutely no comparison to be drawn.
elfinbrighton, Brighton says...
12:38pm Fri 23 Oct 09
logicub, you beat me to it. Why do so many people pick out a few words of a comment and run with their indignant reaction, without actually reading the comment properly and understanding what the poster was saying? In no way whatsoever was I suggesting anyone was homophobic. A comparison was drawn between being religious and being gay - I commented that the two are diametrically opposed concepts in the context of this discussion...
NOT IN BRIGHTON? God is being challenged by Jedi Knights for religious supremacy in the city
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magoo, Brighton says...
7:04am Fri 16 Oct 09