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Updated: North Stand Chat reopens its messageboards (From The Argus)
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Updated: North Stand Chat reopens its messageboards
1:50pm Thursday 29th October 2009
UPDATE: A rowdy Brighton and Hove Albion internet forum which closed temporarily after being warned by the police has now reopened.
Darren, aka Bozza, who runs the North Stand Chat site, closed its messageboards today and posted a statement in their place explaining what had happened.
He said officers had warned him he could be charged for several offences, including public disorder, and stirring up racial hatred, and that sentences can be increased for offences aggravated by sexual orientation.
At about 8pm, the boards came back - but with a stiff warning that abusive posts will not be tolerated.
In the original post, Darren told members: “I run NSC for fun. It takes up a fair bit of time occasionally, and also causes grief. But this is a level of grief too far.
“So this is a first and last warning to everyone: “Do not use NSC as a sounding board for any views you may hold on race matters. They do not belong here.
“Be in no doubt that if there is any more, NSC will be closed down for good without notice. That would be very sad, but I do not want to carry the risk of what some idiots think is acceptable “NSC will stay closed for a little while in order that people get to read and digest this. Many apologies to the significant majority who use NSC in the way it is intended.”
When the boards came back up, he posted another message, warning members they needed to watch what they said.
He said:"The offending posts have been removed from view and I hope the holding message that has been greeting visitors to NSC today has left all in no doubt: NSC is going to be different from today.
"The moderating team have always allowed significantly more latitude than is displayed on most comparable forums. There is very little that is moderated or removed from view."
He added: "It's become evident to me, as I'm sure it has to many others, that there has been a steady increase in postings of a more extreme political nature, often unpleasant in their tone. These will no longer be tolerated on NSC. If you feel a burning desire to express such beliefs then please take them elsewhere."
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Your Say YourArgus
gory333, brighton says...
2:56pm Wed 28 Oct 09
Fight Back, Hove says...
3:16pm Wed 28 Oct 09
jay316 wrote:I know the incident you're talking about and the resultant discussions on NSC but I can't really see what you're getting at. It's a board for BHA fans to discuss things - sometimes football, sometimes not. A vast majority do it in a humourous, light hearted way but as with any public forum ( The Argus site included ) there are a few that overstep the mark. Over the last few days there have been some childlish, brainless school children who've posted totally unsuitable posts - I hope they're proud of themselves for closing down an enjoyable site. Gory333 - rarely in over 15 years of using the site have I seen anyone threatened - on the odd occasion it has happened it's normally been six of one and half a dozen of the other and it's been dealt with by the moderators.
Freedom of speech gone mad..
But my involvement with this site as a forum poster, was not pleasent.
It was because of the Stewards, who did their jobs, getting threats etc from Fans, after they removed a barrier to allow a BMW driver out.. a driver who had commited a road traffic act violation, and who almost run over 100's of fan.
I believe the police (Darren) actually wrote on the forums saying that the stewards did what they did for safe.
So I am not suprised at all this site has been closed even if on a temp basis.
*** Nice to see the Argus can use cut and paste to create a WHOLE story ! ***
Jo Wadsworth, web editor, The Argus says...
3:24pm Wed 28 Oct 09
Fight Back, Hove says...
3:24pm Wed 28 Oct 09
Jimmy Stewart's Imaginary Rabbit, Brighton says...
3:29pm Wed 28 Oct 09
Security word: bin-fest
Safeway, Hove says...
3:31pm Wed 28 Oct 09
Crunchie, says...
3:32pm Wed 28 Oct 09
Fight Back wrote:He is the publisher, even though not the author. As long as he takes action to prevent people posting inappropriate things, or to remove them when it's drawn to his attention, he's not going to be personally liable. That's why he's done what he's done, I imagine.
As an extra, while Bozza runs the web site I fail to see how he can be held personally responsible to other peoples posts. When someone sends a threaterning letter does the paper manufacturer or postman get prosecuted ? Or the ISP if someone does it by email. The police have probably overstepped their powers but nothing new there !!!!
Brett_, Brighton says...
3:39pm Wed 28 Oct 09
Its a shame the minority spoil it for everyone, but it seems the right way to go about it. Darren shouldnt have to be threatened to by the police for the mindlessness of those who posted what they posted.
NSC is great that everything is not just about The Albion, lets hope it stays that way, but obviously there are new parameters being set.
AndyN, Hollingbury says...
3:41pm Wed 28 Oct 09
Forbes Coleman, says...
3:54pm Wed 28 Oct 09
Football is littered with this kind of crap.
Rupert., Brighton says...
3:55pm Wed 28 Oct 09
NailZ, North Somerset says...
3:59pm Wed 28 Oct 09
ShorehamBeachcomber, shoreham says...
4:02pm Wed 28 Oct 09
security word perspective
ChrisFromHassocks, Hassocks says...
4:03pm Wed 28 Oct 09
Fight Back, Hove says...
4:07pm Wed 28 Oct 09
Forbes Coleman wrote:Are you part of LDC or live in Falmer by chance ? Such a biggoted generalisation you've posted there !!!!
Probably because the users on that site were those that were banned from the official Albion site anyway...?
Football is littered with this kind of crap.
Easy 10, Southwick says...
4:13pm Wed 28 Oct 09
Getting the police involved and threatening to shut NSC down is akin to using a sledgehammer to crack a few nuts.
pikelette, Lewes says...
4:16pm Wed 28 Oct 09
Roz
Rupert., Brighton says...
4:21pm Wed 28 Oct 09
Jack Hughes, says...
4:30pm Wed 28 Oct 09
Easy 10, Southwick says...
4:32pm Wed 28 Oct 09
But would you really describe it as inciting racial hatred ? Is anyone going to go out and commit a violent act on the basis of what they read from some moron on NSC ?
The majority of posters on there are intelligent enough to dismiss the ramblings of the few idiots who post that kind of garbage, and moreso, go on to expose them for the tools they are through argument and debate. It doesn't mean the site should be closed down because of the "extreme views" of a handful of posters.
Anyone offended by a particular post or thread on there can always report it to the mods, and they will act on it and ban the individual. I can only assume someone not connected with NSC has seen fit to go to the police first instead of Bozza, who would have sorted it out without the need for all this nonsense.
El Pres, BHASVIC says...
4:37pm Wed 28 Oct 09
There is a mechanism for anyone who has a problem with a post to report it to the mods, just as there is here on the Argus website.
In the school holidays there is always more rubbish posted, but that is to be expected.
NSC has always been independent of the club, and has strict rules about racism.
Notfaraway, Keston says...
4:40pm Wed 28 Oct 09
Rupert., Brighton says...
4:47pm Wed 28 Oct 09
Notfaraway, Keston says...
4:49pm Wed 28 Oct 09
Rupert. wrote:Really Rupert, I'm Jewish and I haven't seen any serious antisemitism. Granted there ate a handful of people who are pro BNP (as is their democratic right) but if you read the board fully you'd see that they are mocked and derided by the vast majority of the posters on there. To infer that NSC is responsible for inciting Race Hate is ridiculous, many of the 'offensive' posts are what some people consider humour but most it's tongue in cheek. I can guarantee that you'll find far worse in the National Press, take last week's Daily Mail for instance.
I disagree Easy10, in the past month there was quite a large thread full of antisemitism, playing off the stereotypes of Jews. We have the usual few people getting involved in Islamophobia calling all arabs terrorists. The casual racism and homophobia on the board is downright pathetic and just because you are on the internet does not mean you are anonymous or it isn't taken as serious as if it were the same views being said in public. What is pathetic is that it took the police to get involved in something that the moderators did nothing about for years.
Really you do need to develop a thicker skin or alternatively just not read NSC if it bothers you that much.
GarryNelson'sLeftFoot, Lewes says...
4:53pm Wed 28 Oct 09
Jimmy Stewart's Imaginary Rabbit, Brighton says...
5:19pm Wed 28 Oct 09
jay316, Brighton says...
5:35pm Wed 28 Oct 09
Jo Wadsworth wrote:I would say that as seems to be the general feedback here, 99% of posters on NSC where responsible, however if posts are made they should be abide by the Site Terms (similair to here). If they dont' then the poster, site admin, hosting company can all be held accountable. This is why forums have moderators, or the option to delete, ban users etc..
Hi Fight Back - we are putting in calls to North Stand Chat, forum users, the police and the club to find out more. The story will be updated as and when we get more information
As with regards to the BMW incident, there was a lot of people demanding people be sacked etc, which is a threat of kinds.. but hey all history.
Safeway, Hove says...
5:47pm Wed 28 Oct 09
com :)
kentseagull, folkestone says...
5:52pm Wed 28 Oct 09
simon195, worthing says...
5:59pm Wed 28 Oct 09
Billy the Fish, Haywards Heath says...
6:34pm Wed 28 Oct 09
Is it really a matter for the police though???
Fight Back, Hove says...
6:49pm Wed 28 Oct 09
Cgull, Brighton says...
6:53pm Wed 28 Oct 09
GrumpyM, says...
6:55pm Wed 28 Oct 09
Sancho, Brighton says...
6:56pm Wed 28 Oct 09
Rupert., Brighton says...
6:57pm Wed 28 Oct 09
bill porter, Sussex says...
7:14pm Wed 28 Oct 09
What it needs is a revamp of the moderators as some of them seem to be happy to let the more offensive stuff through than used to happen in the past. Darren is reliant on volunteers to act as moderators but many of the more sensible moderators have full time jobs so can't be on NSC at the times when some of the idiots tend to post.
Despite a few problems over the years, NSC has been a great source of information to many and the work of the REMF has been recognised by many groups for years.
Lets just hope Darren gets past this latest problem and NSC can get back up and running soon.
El Pres, BHASVIC says...
7:18pm Wed 28 Oct 09
kentseagull wrote:So why didn't you report the posts in question, there have been ten bans imposed since the start of September.
Some of the posts and threads recently have been disgraceful. It is clear that a number of users have signed up to the site to spread their bigotted and hateful views. I am glad this has happend as every day the site appears to have become less and less about football and recent viewings have left a nasty taste in my mouth...
As for the bigots, for every one who does post, there are ten others who will show up their vile ideas for the sick idiocy that they represent.
Do you really expect people who have full time jobs to spend every hour of the day going through the minutae of every post in their role as mods?
What is lacking is a sense of proportion. One clown posted something that someone else took offence to, and this spineless individual thought they would have some fun by getting the police involved instead of using the report the post function.
The Ringleader, Shoreham says...
7:40pm Wed 28 Oct 09
Sancho wrote:Gerbil??
I wonder who the RINGLEADER was?
Fight Back, Hove says...
7:41pm Wed 28 Oct 09
Fight Back, Hove says...
7:43pm Wed 28 Oct 09
The Ringleader wrote:On the assumption you really are Ringleader I would suggest to go away !
Sancho wrote:Gerbil??
I wonder who the RINGLEADER was?
Rupert., Brighton says...
7:46pm Wed 28 Oct 09
seagullsovergrimsby, Crap Town says...
7:57pm Wed 28 Oct 09
El Pres, BHASVIC says...
8:44pm Wed 28 Oct 09
Rupert. wrote:Do you have any evidence to support this, because I don't recall any such posts.
I'm sure people would report more posts to mods if they didn't see said mods joining in the racist and bigoted banter, can't really argue they weren't aware of it if they posted in the same thread.
Safeway, Hove says...
9:17pm Wed 28 Oct 09
Dave in Hastings, Hastings says...
9:23pm Wed 28 Oct 09
Portlock Seagull, Maidenhead says...
10:04pm Wed 28 Oct 09
Cap'n Pugwash, Shoreham says...
10:40pm Wed 28 Oct 09
Jo Wadsworth wrote:Why would you want to call the club-it is an unofficial fans' forum? We know lots of your Albion 'news' is lifted directly from NSC but that does not mean the club are in any way affiliated with the forum.
Hi Fight Back - we are putting in calls to North Stand Chat, forum users, the police and the club to find out more. The story will be updated as and when we get more information
Jimmy Stewart's Imaginary Rabbit, Brighton says...
10:50pm Wed 28 Oct 09
Safeway, Hove says...
10:54pm Wed 28 Oct 09
Portlock Seagull wrote:"the club are in any way affiliated with the forum."
Dave in Hastings, your post doesn't make sense "freedom of speech should have its limits"?!!! How's that work then? What, like in a dictatorship?! Anyway, I blame the Albion - if they played better football, there'd be more football related threads on NSC! See, it's all Russell's fault..... ;) Good luck on Saturday boys!
Apart from the 'Ask The Club' and 'Ask The Falmer Project Team forums'.
NSC is not as independent as some would like to think.
pikelette, Lewes says...
2:02am Thu 29 Oct 09
El Pres wrote:Agreed. That's a distinctly unwise claim to make given the intolerance one would naturally feel if falsely accused of racist bigotry.
Rupert. wrote:Do you have any evidence to support this, because I don't recall any such posts.
I'm sure people would report more posts to mods if they didn't see said mods joining in the racist and bigoted banter, can't really argue they weren't aware of it if they posted in the same thread.
goldstone, Bolney says...
12:08pm Thu 29 Oct 09
Rupert., Brighton says...
12:45pm Thu 29 Oct 09
Let's go back to the good times were you can accuse anyone of being a terrorist, even better how about accusing people of being rapists. What dimwits believe that is part of freedom of speech?
You aren't immune to the law on the internet, posting something on the internet is just the same as shouting it out in public.
chris elmes, shoreham by sea says...
2:21pm Thu 29 Oct 09
Dave in Hastings wrote:And our National socialist(Labour)wor
I cannot believe some of the apologists on here for people apparently expressing racist, anti-semitic views. It should not be tolerated whatever the forum. Free speech should have its limits. I also find it offensive when people defend the democratic right of the BNP to put forward their bile as one poster did earlier. The irony is the BNP would almost certainly remove democratic rights from a significant proportion of the UK population if (god forbid) they ever got in power. To say the BNP are preferable to Stalin is like saying Saddam Hussein was nicer that Pol Pot.
kers party haven't ? Wake up and smell the bovine excrement !
kentseagull, folkestone says...
3:34pm Thu 29 Oct 09
El Pres wrote:I don't think I have read the post/thread that led to the problems and in the future I (and I hope others) will make an effort to report posts to the mods if needed as it is now clear that these posts could put the future of the site (and Bozza) in real jeapordy.
kentseagull wrote: Some of the posts and threads recently have been disgraceful. It is clear that a number of users have signed up to the site to spread their bigotted and hateful views. I am glad this has happend as every day the site appears to have become less and less about football and recent viewings have left a nasty taste in my mouth...So why didn't you report the posts in question, there have been ten bans imposed since the start of September. As for the bigots, for every one who does post, there are ten others who will show up their vile ideas for the sick idiocy that they represent. Do you really expect people who have full time jobs to spend every hour of the day going through the minutae of every post in their role as mods? What is lacking is a sense of proportion. One clown posted something that someone else took offence to, and this spineless individual thought they would have some fun by getting the police involved instead of using the report the post function.
I do stand by my comments however that the 1/10 (and I think it is less) should not be able to use NSC as a forum for hatred and disrespect - what the police involvement has shown is that NSC is located within the real world. As you say the site is run for fun and the moderators cannot be expected to trawl through every post, nor would anyone want them to. I hope that, with NSC now up and running again the site will police itself and the extreme views will subside...a few wins would help as well
VoiceofUnreason, Uckfield says...
5:20pm Thu 29 Oct 09
goldstone, Bolney says...
11:24pm Thu 29 Oct 09
DougM, Brighton says...
9:26am Fri 30 Oct 09
Well, if they're not in prison they have to be contained somewhere.
Cap'n Pugwash, Shoreham says...
10:50pm Fri 30 Oct 09
DougM wrote:You stupid, ill informed, bigoted idiot.
So all these worthless oiks are who the new stadium is being built for?
Well, if they're not in prison they have to be contained somewhere.
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jay316, Brighton says...
2:55pm Wed 28 Oct 09
But my involvement with this site as a forum poster, was not pleasent.
It was because of the Stewards, who did their jobs, getting threats etc from Fans, after they removed a barrier to allow a BMW driver out.. a driver who had commited a road traffic act violation, and who almost run over 100's of fan.
I believe the police (Darren) actually wrote on the forums saying that the stewards did what they did for safe.
So I am not suprised at all this site has been closed even if on a temp basis.