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Brighton and Hove bin strikes - it's on (From The Argus)
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Brighton and Hove bin strikes - it's on
7:30am Saturday 7th November 2009
The bin strike which threatens to bring Brighton and Hove to its knees will definitely start on Monday.
Union bosses yesterday said Brighton and Hove City Council had so far failed to come to up with an eleventh hour deal to prevent the planned week-long walkout.
Mountains of rubbish are already beginning to pile up across the city after two days of work-to-rule industrial action.
No refuse will be picked up from any of the city's 120,000 households during the week-long strike.
It is feared industrial action will stretch into Christmas with union bosses already planning further walkouts from November 16 to 22.
GMB branch secretary Mark Turner said the council had “done nothing” to prevent the strike.
He said: “We have been forced into this position. They have not done anything to prevent the strike. If they wanted to prevent the strike they could have come to us on Thursday or this time last week. We could have had a deal on the table by now. They have not done anything. Nothing has changed.”
Last night Mr Turner said that even if the council offered them a deal over the weekend it would be too late to stop the walkout.
He said: “We will not be able to call off the strike, the strike is on.
“If a deal was struck over the weekend we would not be in a position to call it off."
The GMB said the walkout will start from 6am on Monday at Upper Hollingdean Road, Brighton.
The 300 CityClean binmen, street cleaners and mechanics are striking over proposed pay cuts of up to £8,000 per person.
The council has proposed the cuts to bring their pay in line with other unskilled workers in different departments.
A spokesman for the council said: “We have had several weeks of talks to try to come to an agreement about how the council will implement legal and moral duties to pay people fairly across the board.
“The council has comprehensive plans to manage disruption to core services. However, we remain hopeful that we can resume productive discussions with the unions about how we implement fair pay across the council so that the strikes planned for next week can be averted.
“We’d remind residents that this issue is about how the council fulfils its legal and moral duty to pay it employees fairly without passing on unnecessary costs to the council tax payer.”
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Your Say YourArgus
kkk, hove says...
8:25am Sat 7 Nov 09
nellynutter, portslade says...
8:51am Sat 7 Nov 09
GlossyChops, Hove says...
9:09am Sat 7 Nov 09
The Council website says that Industrial action was to start Thurs 5th with the week strike starting Mon 9th until 16th.
What is going on here why have we not had a collection the week before the industrial action? Surely the council should have made plans to ensure that all rubbish is collected properly before the strike to minimise the amount that would build up over the Industrial action?
That means that we will have three weeks worth of rubbish on our street as a result of one weeks strike and 2 days industrial action - madness.
RAS Putin, Brighton says...
9:42am Sat 7 Nov 09
Not an advisable position while surrounded by rotting detritus.
Seriously, though, the only visible service most of us receive for the vast sums we pay over to the council is about to be withdrawn.
What contingency plans has the council put in place?
*crickets*
saveHOVE, Hove says...
9:51am Sat 7 Nov 09
Recycling figures for this country are very low compared to everywhere else.
And I hope the Labour Government that put the Council into the position of being sued under the equal pay legislation is going to be held to account as much as BHCC's Conservative Administration.
Could the Council have done things another way? Is there a time frame for implementing this equal pay structure for unskilled workers?
In the bad old days I watched men aging fast as they carried bins up stairs on their backs and running down Sackville Road after speeding refuse vehicles. Binmen today only have to wheel bins to the back of the vehicles from the street. They don't even pick up what is spilled onto roads or the backs of blocks of flats. But they are out in all weathers doing it. That alone is worth more pay than the unskilled sitting indoors merit.
Could a pay freeze not have accomplished the same result longterm or reduced pay increases compared to other unskilled workers? Why the draconian pay cuts? It feels wrong.
TheInsider, Brighton says...
10:31am Sat 7 Nov 09
Remember this workforce had to be taken in-house when Sita dumped the contract a few years back. Then no other contractor wanted to touch the waste team because B&H is renowned in the industry as being a poison challice and no contractor would touch it. The council had to take it in-house and despite this, work relations have been poor and slowly the council has clearly been dismantling the team. This strike is now the ideal opportunity to break up the workforce for good and bring in a contractor which is probably why the council don't seem too bothered. They will suffer short term pain for a long term gain.
It's a well played out business strategy.
Bennn, Kemptown, Brighton says...
10:39am Sat 7 Nov 09
mistap, brighton says...
11:04am Sat 7 Nov 09
Bristol VR, Portslade says...
11:09am Sat 7 Nov 09
deni, brighton says...
11:38am Sat 7 Nov 09
I am a teaching assistant who does not sit on her bum all day in a classroom or library!
When discussions about single status started, teaching assistants were told that their pay was to be increased inline with other nonskilled council workers. But now the council have decided to lower pay so that it is inline with teaching assistants. I earn £10.800 per annum before tax for 30.8 hours, plus do extra hours for which I am not paid.
I am really fed up with people saying that dustmen go out in all weather, surely they knew this was going to happen when they accepted the job. Maybe the council want all streets to have communal bins that way they will not need so many dustmen, just one sitting on his bum in a lorry.
bugmenot, far away says...
11:42am Sat 7 Nov 09
I would not strike if I was paid 17k a year that's a good wage for that job.
jaygee, arundel says...
12:27pm Sat 7 Nov 09
Granny, Brighton says...
2:39pm Sat 7 Nov 09
10 Downing Street, London says...
2:42pm Sat 7 Nov 09
Of course the rubbish is going to pile it up if it is not collected! Strewth, well else are we going to put it?? This ARGUS newspaper is getting worse!
Safeway, Hove says...
2:44pm Sat 7 Nov 09
Granny wrote:You can always call them. 01273 29 29 29.
If I was not housebound I would be the first to take my rubbish to the council offices and dump it there. If I could work out how much of my council tax covers refuse collection I would deduct it from my payments. If I could tell the council what I really think of their treatment of our binmen on this site, without being warned by Jo, I would. If only!!!!!!!!!!
davyboy, abingdon, oxon says...
2:50pm Sat 7 Nov 09
bugmenot wrote:try living on 17K if you think that is a good wage. would you REALLY get up at 4.30am, in all weathers, to go out for 8-10 hours, picking up other peoples rubbish? judging by what some people put in their bins(broken glass, needles etc) i would expect at least £30k, especially in a high price place like brighton. the council must realise that these are the men and women who keep the city from looking like a tip, and if you don't pay a decent salary, it won't get done!
Where are binmen jobs advertised in Brighton?
I would not strike if I was paid 17k a year that's a good wage for that job.
Hovist, Hove says...
2:53pm Sat 7 Nov 09
Well, that sounds rather a good wage to me by B&H standards. Not that many years ago I was commuting to London to work for a lot less than that!
Hovist, Hove says...
3:13pm Sat 7 Nov 09
Voice of Unreason, B&H says...
3:32pm Sat 7 Nov 09
Hovist wrote:£17k per annum is more than I have ever earned in a single year.
@nellynutter: "17k... it's hardly a liveable wage in the first place." Well, that sounds rather a good wage to me by B&H standards. Not that many years ago I was commuting to London to work for a lot less than that!
So forgive me if I don't feel in the slightest bit sorry for them, and just want my rubbish collected - as I am paying for thsi service through my council tax.
If this dispute goes on, I will withhold my council tax, and I have absolutely no intention of taking ANY of my rubbish to the tip - as I don't suppose any of the binmen are about to come and do MY job for nothing - are they?
It can just pile up - and if it gets to the point where there really is too much - I'll take it down to the council offices and tip it on their steps.
kfirette, Hove says...
3:33pm Sat 7 Nov 09
I will miss them and hope it doesnt go on for too long cos of hazzards - but good luck to them.
Voice of Unreason, B&H says...
3:38pm Sat 7 Nov 09
I can guess why. It's because we can all put up with no collection for 7 days. So they have 'unofficially' made it 14 days, so that it really bites.
I hope those that didn't do their jobs properly this last week aren't getting paid.
This place is fast turning into a third world country. Just plain embarrassing.
bugmenot, far away says...
4:20pm Sat 7 Nov 09
yorkie44, Woodingdean says...
4:25pm Sat 7 Nov 09
Refuse Truck Driver, Brighton says...
4:32pm Sat 7 Nov 09
As for wheelie bins being bought in to make my job easier ? You are being somewhat naive if you believe that your local council spent hundreds of thousands of pounds on wheelie bins to make our job easier. Wheelie bins and kerbside collections were bought in to make collection easier to audit and make more efficient. They worked out the average time it took to wheel a bin to the truck then worked out how many bins they could expect to us to empty in a day.
Prior to the changes (when we would visit several hundred households a day)a refuse loader would walk on average 14 miles a day lifting and carrying most of the way. Now we are expected to visit around a 1000 households a day still lifting and carrying and we're lazy? our job has been made easier? I don't think so.
We are not striking because we want more pay, we are striking because we want to keep the money we have. As for the teaching assistant that is on £10,800 a year, you accepted that salary when you took the job. I don't begrudge you a pay rise but I but I'm not prepared to have that payrise come out of my pocket.
I hope that clarifies a few points for you all, I really don't want to strike, I'm proud of the job I do and I hate to think of the mess my patch is going to be in while we are on strike. I offer an apology to all the residents for the state of the city and hope you understand that I'm just trying to keep the roof over my families heads. If you want to direct your ire at anyone I urge you to contact your local councilors.
Yours sincerely
A fat, lazy, thick refuse truck driver.
deni, brighton says...
4:47pm Sat 7 Nov 09
murraygreatwin, hove says...
5:05pm Sat 7 Nov 09
Council tax = money down the drain.
GRANDAD, SEAFORD says...
5:24pm Sat 7 Nov 09
kenzie757, seaford says...
5:25pm Sat 7 Nov 09
Lets face it, if you put your rubbish out on the wrong day, you get fined. Failure by the council to collect results in compensation to residents.
chrisbrighton, brighton says...
6:01pm Sat 7 Nov 09
GRANDAD, SEAFORD says...
6:15pm Sat 7 Nov 09
Forbes Coleman, says...
6:50pm Sat 7 Nov 09
I did it for 5 years, living in my OWN one bedroom flat in Reading, the in Hove (Lansdowne Place).
It's a good amount for a single person. And if you struggle, just get £200 a month in housing benefit/council tax benefit.
TheInsider, Brighton says...
6:54pm Sat 7 Nov 09
Now while you may be one of them earning less than £20 grand there are some in the team earning much much more and Mr Turner knows who they are. Perhaps The Argus would like to out in a Freedom of Information request and ask how many of the binmen are on more than 30 grand on old council contracts and with some excellent pension deals. Otherwise perhaps someone at Cityclean would like to leak it.
Come on, no-one trusts a word Mark Turner has ever said so we need all the binmen to show us their payslips.
Perhaps they could set up a payslip Facebook account.
ccemployee, says...
7:15pm Sat 7 Nov 09
GlossyChops wrote:i work for city clean and i am equally distgusted with the communal bin situation.. i would like to set the record straight on this, the situation at the moment is that all three com bin wagons are off the road, one is broken the other two are having a service and a MOT.. why at the same time, i dont know!!
I want to know why our communal bins in Farm Road, Hove, have not been emptied since Saturday 31st Oct -they were overflowing onto the road by Monday 2nd Nov!! The Council website says that Industrial action was to start Thurs 5th with the week strike starting Mon 9th until 16th. What is going on here why have we not had a collection the week before the industrial action? Surely the council should have made plans to ensure that all rubbish is collected properly before the strike to minimise the amount that would build up over the Industrial action? That means that we will have three weeks worth of rubbish on our street as a result of one weeks strike and 2 days industrial action - madness.
this demonstrates the sheer incompetance of the management, this is not the fault of the workforce and could easily have been avoided.. this is the same management that are earning £30something K and do not face a pay cut..
support the binmen, we work hard and do alot for the community. this is completely unfair that we are being penalised for the incompetance of bankers and government.
micky adams, Brighton says...
7:42pm Sat 7 Nov 09
ccemployee, says...
7:58pm Sat 7 Nov 09
Forbes Coleman wrote:well this is a bit of a catch22, pay the workers less and benefit costs increase, maintain pay and benefits stay the same. either way the council arent saving any money. bearing in mind the recent extention of the permit zones and extra revenue from that, how about bumping the teaching assistants pay up?? or is that just something that cant be considered!!
£17k is a perfectly liveable wage! I did it for 5 years, living in my OWN one bedroom flat in Reading, the in Hove (Lansdowne Place). It's a good amount for a single person. And if you struggle, just get £200 a month in housing benefit/council tax benefit.
as a street cleaner i am on around £18000, which is enough to live on your right.
we are going on strike as are wages are due to be dropped to £14500, which is not a livable wage.. not for anyone!
i would also like to remind people we pay council tax too, we actually contribute to our own wages as well as yourselves.. i too will expect a deduction in my council tax!!
robsurmer, Brighton says...
8:17pm Sat 7 Nov 09
Who the hell decides this? This would reduce the amount of waste collected and everyone wins. But no- we live in England where every effort is made to stick to outdated and non-eco practices. If the rest of Europe can get their act together why can't we?
The bin men deserve a decent wage but they don't do themselves any favours at all- our bins have been full since Wednesday so they have obviously decided to strike a week earlier than we were told. I don't believe that all the trucks are out of action,suddenly a week before a strike-how convenient for them-what did they do- use smaller trucks and more runs or did they sit around doing nothing for their wages? I think the latter, I am fed up with this city and its inability to get even the basics right- what are we paying council tax for?- You just have to look at the rusty railings on the seafront to know this council are incompetent in everything they do- I have friends from overseas who are shocked at the dilapidated look of parts of Brighton and ask:-How come in one of Britain's premier tourist resorts?
Andy R, Hove says...
8:43pm Sat 7 Nov 09
A message to teaching assistants - Cityclean workers are not the enemy.
I supported the TA's when they fought for a decent wage, and I'll be doing the same for the bin and streetcleaning people. And hopefully you can manage to support each other...?
i_am_rico, Brighton says...
9:35pm Sat 7 Nov 09
Voice of Unreason, B&H says...
9:45pm Sat 7 Nov 09
ccemployee wrote:"£14500, which is not a livable wage.. not for anyone! "
Forbes Coleman wrote: £17k is a perfectly liveable wage! I did it for 5 years, living in my OWN one bedroom flat in Reading, the in Hove (Lansdowne Place). It's a good amount for a single person. And if you struggle, just get £200 a month in housing benefit/council tax benefit.well this is a bit of a catch22, pay the workers less and benefit costs increase, maintain pay and benefits stay the same. either way the council arent saving any money. bearing in mind the recent extention of the permit zones and extra revenue from that, how about bumping the teaching assistants pay up?? or is that just something that cant be considered!! as a street cleaner i am on around £18000, which is enough to live on your right. we are going on strike as are wages are due to be dropped to £14500, which is not a livable wage.. not for anyone! i would also like to remind people we pay council tax too, we actually contribute to our own wages as well as yourselves.. i too will expect a deduction in my council tax!!
I live on less than that, and I run a car.
All this talk of it not being enough money is rubbish. It might not be as much as you are USED TO - but you can still live on it.
You may not like taking a pay cut - and if you don't - get another job.
I have a good standard of living on about £13,000 a year. I think all this talk of £17 grand not being enough is total bull****.
No sympathy from me at all.
jyan, says...
11:52pm Sat 7 Nov 09
ccemployee wrote:£14500 is more than I earn and I manage OK. Don't be so effing greedy and get back to work.
Forbes Coleman wrote:well this is a bit of a catch22, pay the workers less and benefit costs increase, maintain pay and benefits stay the same. either way the council arent saving any money. bearing in mind the recent extention of the permit zones and extra revenue from that, how about bumping the teaching assistants pay up?? or is that just something that cant be considered!!
£17k is a perfectly liveable wage! I did it for 5 years, living in my OWN one bedroom flat in Reading, the in Hove (Lansdowne Place). It's a good amount for a single person. And if you struggle, just get £200 a month in housing benefit/council tax benefit.
as a street cleaner i am on around £18000, which is enough to live on your right.
we are going on strike as are wages are due to be dropped to £14500, which is not a livable wage.. not for anyone!
i would also like to remind people we pay council tax too, we actually contribute to our own wages as well as yourselves.. i too will expect a deduction in my council tax!!
Gazza, Sussex says...
2:10am Sun 8 Nov 09
To bring there pay into line with un skilled workers.
I thought it was all to do with women’s pay being brought into line with the men’s pay as cited by the law courts over dinner ladies. Pay. Both sexes must be seen not to be discriminated against.
So Brighton and Hove council discriminated against men by reducing there pay to be in line with women (not unskilled) I like how they twisted it over the months. And do the council feel women employees are Un skilled too
Can anyone tell me if the high-ranking women councillor is still of work getting over £100.000 a year while still of sick. due to stress. News topic 2008
Yours Faithfully
Mr Bin Over Laden
tonybee, Brighton says...
4:57am Sun 8 Nov 09
collection all over the road. Anybody from Warsaw or Kracov will do.
Sack the genius on the Council who sends the street cleaner round THE DAY BEFORE the cowboys collect !
kemptownhussey, Kemptown says...
9:19am Sun 8 Nov 09
The bin men have held this city to ransom on many occasions in the past. Its time that the city council got rid of these workers, make them redundant or simply sack them and employ people that want the job.
In the meantime, whilst they are on strike, employ temp workers to do the job, as we don't have to pay the strikers we can get our rubbish taken away and the strikers can strike for as long as they like.
Whatever happens, its about time the workers that hold this city to ransom are got rid of as soon as is possible.
Theforce, Brighton says...
10:04am Sun 8 Nov 09
kkk, hove says...
1:36pm Sun 8 Nov 09
ccemployee, says...
1:44pm Sun 8 Nov 09
Voice of Unreason wrote:a good standard of living? on £13k? living in brighton? i dont think so.
ccemployee wrote:"£14500, which is not a livable wage.. not for anyone! " I live on less than that, and I run a car. All this talk of it not being enough money is rubbish. It might not be as much as you are USED TO - but you can still live on it. You may not like taking a pay cut - and if you don't - get another job. I have a good standard of living on about £13,000 a year. I think all this talk of £17 grand not being enough is total bull****. No sympathy from me at all.Forbes Coleman wrote: £17k is a perfectly liveable wage! I did it for 5 years, living in my OWN one bedroom flat in Reading, the in Hove (Lansdowne Place). It's a good amount for a single person. And if you struggle, just get £200 a month in housing benefit/council tax benefit.well this is a bit of a catch22, pay the workers less and benefit costs increase, maintain pay and benefits stay the same. either way the council arent saving any money. bearing in mind the recent extention of the permit zones and extra revenue from that, how about bumping the teaching assistants pay up?? or is that just something that cant be considered!! as a street cleaner i am on around £18000, which is enough to live on your right. we are going on strike as are wages are due to be dropped to £14500, which is not a livable wage.. not for anyone! i would also like to remind people we pay council tax too, we actually contribute to our own wages as well as yourselves.. i too will expect a deduction in my council tax!!
i dont want your sympathy, i feel sorry for you if anything. you clearly have a large chip on your shoulder, maybe you should get another job, your clearly quite stressed.. you could apply for mine when i leave.
Dave At Home, Brighton says...
1:56pm Sun 8 Nov 09
Voice of Unreason, B&H says...
2:02pm Sun 8 Nov 09
ccemployee wrote:Yes - a good standard of living. Maybe because I'm careful with money, and don't feel I have to buy all the crap that people feel that they need to have a 'normal' life.
Voice of Unreason wrote:a good standard of living? on £13k? living in brighton? i dont think so. i dont want your sympathy, i feel sorry for you if anything. you clearly have a large chip on your shoulder, maybe you should get another job, your clearly quite stressed.. you could apply for mine when i leave.ccemployee wrote:"£14500, which is not a livable wage.. not for anyone! " I live on less than that, and I run a car. All this talk of it not being enough money is rubbish. It might not be as much as you are USED TO - but you can still live on it. You may not like taking a pay cut - and if you don't - get another job. I have a good standard of living on about £13,000 a year. I think all this talk of £17 grand not being enough is total bull****. No sympathy from me at all.Forbes Coleman wrote: £17k is a perfectly liveable wage! I did it for 5 years, living in my OWN one bedroom flat in Reading, the in Hove (Lansdowne Place). It's a good amount for a single person. And if you struggle, just get £200 a month in housing benefit/council tax benefit.well this is a bit of a catch22, pay the workers less and benefit costs increase, maintain pay and benefits stay the same. either way the council arent saving any money. bearing in mind the recent extention of the permit zones and extra revenue from that, how about bumping the teaching assistants pay up?? or is that just something that cant be considered!! as a street cleaner i am on around £18000, which is enough to live on your right. we are going on strike as are wages are due to be dropped to £14500, which is not a livable wage.. not for anyone! i would also like to remind people we pay council tax too, we actually contribute to our own wages as well as yourselves.. i too will expect a deduction in my council tax!!
I have no stress at all, and no chip on my shoulder. I'm quite happy as I am. I don't want another, possibly better paid job - because my job is stress free - and that in itself is worth a lot. I don't need you to feel sorry for me.
I ought to point out that anyone on state pensions has to live on a lot less than 13 or 14 grand. £14,500 would be a fortune to them.
You need to get some perspective. Your job is classed as unskilled. Do you really think it's worth £17,000 a year, because I don't.
Just my opinion.
Tye, Pembroke and Worthing says...
4:06pm Sun 8 Nov 09
chusan, brighton says...
6:36pm Sun 8 Nov 09
TheInsider, Brighton says...
9:11pm Sun 8 Nov 09
I suggest you all do the same.
Recycling and a black bag of waste.
They are pleased to help as they feel they are being fleeced by their own council each month so don't mind getting their council to take my waste.
r2dean2, brighton says...
9:23pm Sun 8 Nov 09
misscee wrote:the the thing is , there the same bosses as when it was sita!!!, they never changed the management team, i worked for both sita, then cityclean, the bosses are bullies and have no care for there staff, i left in 2007 to join the railway, best move i made. we should be behind the guys and girls there, at the end of the day if the firm you worked for was gonna cut your pay, you would be up in the arms too and would want every ones eles support . the should sack the management team and then start the talk's from the begining. also whats wrong with bringing low paid unskilled workers up tp the bin mans wage levels, at the end of the day it's a copout on the council behalf really, saving money for the expenses..... get a grip.
Great! This city is going to look a mess soon. Its already looking scruffy. What is it with the bosses at Cityclean? How come you can't manage your workers?
Voice of Unreason, B&H says...
9:32pm Sun 8 Nov 09
TheInsider wrote:No Insider, I'm keeping all of mine. When the strike eventually ends, and they get back to work, I want the mess that is solely the problem of our council and binmen to be as bad as possible for them.
I took all my rubbish to my in laws this weekend out of county. I suggest you all do the same. Recycling and a black bag of waste. They are pleased to help as they feel they are being fleeced by their own council each month so don't mind getting their council to take my waste.
So I would be thinking of importing rubbish from other areas - just to add to the total meyhem.
If it gets too bad in our garden it's going out on the pavement.
I wonder whether it's possible to sue the council for breach of contract?
tpebop..., Belarus says...
2:12am Tue 10 Nov 09
Voice of Unreason wrote:well said you guys, but think of this for a moment. What if you all take you rubbish to the DRIVE, in hove, down on the left seems like a nice spot. there problem, let them deal with it! Have fun.
TheInsider wrote: I took all my rubbish to my in laws this weekend out of county. I suggest you all do the same. Recycling and a black bag of waste. They are pleased to help as they feel they are being fleeced by their own council each month so don't mind getting their council to take my waste.No Insider, I'm keeping all of mine. When the strike eventually ends, and they get back to work, I want the mess that is solely the problem of our council and binmen to be as bad as possible for them. So I would be thinking of importing rubbish from other areas - just to add to the total meyhem. If it gets too bad in our garden it's going out on the pavement. I wonder whether it's possible to sue the council for breach of contract?
Brighton and Hove bin strikes - it's on
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misscee, Brighton says...
7:57am Sat 7 Nov 09