Brighton cycling group demand speed limit cuts (From The Argus)

fast moving traffic?
I think not :)
could cross town and get back before another member of staff had parked.
standard of roadcraft does not exsist in Brighton. green cross code training for pedistrians would be a start then cyclists some sort of Test for car and van drivers would be a godd idea as well.
its amazing people are allowed to get behind the wheels of a car with no training.

voiceofthescoombe wrote:
fast moving traffic? I think not :) could cross town and get back before another member of staff had parked. standard of roadcraft does not exsist in Brighton. green cross code training for pedistrians would be a start then cyclists some sort of Test for car and van drivers would be a godd idea as well. its amazing people are allowed to get behind the wheels of a car with no training.

What planet are you on?
Drivers have to pass a Driving Test but cyclists do not!
They can hop on a bike and ride wherever and however they want down pavements, the wrong way down one way streets, ignore traffic lights and speed limits......yes I was nearly mown down by a numptie on a bike in Trafalgar Street last week who was travelling well in excess of the posted 20mph speed limit and when HE almost hit me I was subjected to a volley of abuse. I should add that this was a "proper" cyclist on a carbon crotch-rocket with more lycra than Olivia Newton John so should have known better in my book. Correspondingly my partner was almost knocked off her MTB in New England Road the other Saturday by some idiot in a Vauxhall Safira who was too busy looking at his kid in the backseat to see her bike.
Before the rabid pro-cycle lobby kicks off, I ride a bike and I'm also a car driver. When I'm out on my bike I make sure I stop at red lights and generally obey the highway code. This includes having the correct lighting. THIS IS NOT ROCKET SCIENCE!! Unless cyclists get it through their thick skulls that car drivers need to be able to not only see them but they also need to know that they are not going to be faced with them hammering down a one way street into oncoming traffic or behaving as if they are immortal.
Car drivers need to look out more and pay less attention to mobile phones, stereos, kids in the back or unwrapping that delicious choccy bar. I am all for increased training for cyclists AND car drivers but please do remember that car drivers are required by law to have a license which at the very least guarantees a minimum standard of roadcraft, they are also required to pay to use the road and they are also required to have insurance and an MOT. Cyclist are not reuired to have even the most basic instruction and as for insurance.........
We do not need an enforced 20mph speed limit in Brighton. It is already probably the most car unfriendly city in the UK with poor traffic flow and almost no car parking spaces. We are also the victims of Mr.French and his merry men who seem to think its OK to drive their big red buses at illegal speeds and with absolutely no regard whatsoever for other road users or pedestrians. Tackle those idiots before slapping yet another restriction on the poor motorist who is already at his wits end.
An enforced 20mph speed limit is unnecessary however improved training for cyclists AND car drivers alike IS needed. Whats also need is for the police to stop cyclists without lights or crash helmets and give then a ticket.

Why don't cyclists show some respect for pedestrians. They ride their bikes on pavements, they totally ignore traffic lights and they tut at you if you are walking along a pavement and just happen to be IN THEIR WAY. The Police should stop cyclists when they see them using pavements and speeding through red lights.

Well, Bricycles is a lobbying group. Not many would agree that traffic in Brighton is "very fast moving". Let's have a look at the stats in a bit more detail. Given that the number of cyclists in B+H has risen substantially, the fact that roughly the same number of cyclists is being injured each year means that safety levels have improved. To get a better idea of what's happening, we need to know how many of these accidents involved cyclists doing what they shouldn't be doing: rising without lights, without reflective gear, going through red traffic lights, turning without looking, darting out of side roads, travelling too fast for the conditions - all the bad habits we see every day. And how many involve cars with out-of-town drivers, many of whom in the summer appear to leave their sense at the boundary?
If Bricycles can lobby the city's cyclists to obey the rules, all the time, then let's see if the accident rate falls. We could also remind the grockles to be as aware in our town as they are at home.
If none of that works and there's proof that a 20mph limit really saves lives - I have my doubts - we'll look at it. Bricycles, come back to us in a few years' time when you've done your bit.

When cyclists abide by the Highway code and start to respect traffic signals, pedestrians etc, then by all means let them call for changes to the law Until then, hard luck.

Lets complete the genralisations.
As a cyclist (one who stops at red lights, wears bright reflective clothing, has lights and a helmet, follows the highway code etc.) I'd like to complain about pedestrians walking in the cycle lanes along the sea front.
I understand a brief foray into the cycle lane to overtake when the path is busy, but to walk along it when there is plenty of space is inconsiderate.

So there we have it, there are inconsiderate, selfish pedestrians, inconsiderate selfish drivers, and inconsiderate selfish cyclists.

toldsloth wrote:

voiceofthescoombe wrote:
fast moving traffic? I think not :) could cross town and get back before another member of staff had parked. standard of roadcraft does not exsist in Brighton. green cross code training for pedistrians would be a start then cyclists some sort of Test for car and van drivers would be a godd idea as well. its amazing people are allowed to get behind the wheels of a car with no training.

What planet are you on?
Drivers have to pass a Driving Test but cyclists do not!
They can hop on a bike and ride wherever and however they want down pavements, the wrong way down one way streets, ignore traffic lights and speed limits......yes I was nearly mown down by a numptie on a bike in Trafalgar Street last week who was travelling well in excess of the posted 20mph speed limit and when HE almost hit me I was subjected to a volley of abuse. I should add that this was a "proper" cyclist on a carbon crotch-rocket with more lycra than Olivia Newton John so should have known better in my book. Correspondingly my partner was almost knocked off her MTB in New England Road the other Saturday by some idiot in a Vauxhall Safira who was too busy looking at his kid in the backseat to see her bike.
Before the rabid pro-cycle lobby kicks off, I ride a bike and I'm also a car driver. When I'm out on my bike I make sure I stop at red lights and generally obey the highway code. This includes having the correct lighting. THIS IS NOT ROCKET SCIENCE!! Unless cyclists get it through their thick skulls that car drivers need to be able to not only see them but they also need to know that they are not going to be faced with them hammering down a one way street into oncoming traffic or behaving as if they are immortal.
Car drivers need to look out more and pay less attention to mobile phones, stereos, kids in the back or unwrapping that delicious choccy bar. I am all for increased training for cyclists AND car drivers but please do remember that car drivers are required by law to have a license which at the very least guarantees a minimum standard of roadcraft, they are also required to pay to use the road and they are also required to have insurance and an MOT. Cyclist are not reuired to have even the most basic instruction and as for insurance.........
We do not need an enforced 20mph speed limit in Brighton. It is already probably the most car unfriendly city in the UK with poor traffic flow and almost no car parking spaces. We are also the victims of Mr.French and his merry men who seem to think its OK to drive their big red buses at illegal speeds and with absolutely no regard whatsoever for other road users or pedestrians. Tackle those idiots before slapping yet another restriction on the poor motorist who is already at his wits end.
An enforced 20mph speed limit is unnecessary however improved training for cyclists AND car drivers alike IS needed. Whats also need is for the police to stop cyclists without lights or crash helmets and give then a ticket.

**"Drivers have to pass a Driving Test but cyclists do not!
They can hop on a bike and ride wherever and however they want down pavements, the wrong way down one way streets, ignore traffic lights and speed limits"**
-
Cyclists are not permitted to ride on pavements, the wrong way down one way streets or ignore red lights, just like drivers aren't allowed to drive without a licence.
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Some people ride their bikes through red lights, it doesn't mean they are allowed to. It's like when some people drive cars when their licence is suspended, or even before they get them.
-
Saying "cyclists can get on a bike and ride the wrong way down a one way street" is misrepresentative and is a false argument. It's like saying drivers can ram raid their local shops, or car drivers can bomb along the lewe road at 80mph. You have the physical capabilities to do so, but it doesn't make it legal.
-
That's not to say the illegal riding by cyclists shouldn't be clamped down on, though. It should.

cyclists have increased massively yet accidents remain the same, therefore accidents have reduced. anyone knows traffic in brighton is not fast moving anyway. cyclists should take a test and have to have insurance, road tax and proof their bike is roadworthy, and not put pedestrian lives at risk by riding on pavements. pedestrians should take the green cross code test in school compulsory. every other part of our lives are legistlated under this government so why not cyclists, or boot the government out preferably and get back to common sense.

Hopefully the Argus will buy me a new keyboard cos I've just spat my lunch out laughing at the "fast moving traffic" bit.

Fast moving bikes more like. A friend's 4 year old was knocked over by a bike on New Road recently, and I've been crashed into by cyclists riding down the pavement on Dyke Road, the seafront and others. Not because I wasn't looking - but they appear from nowhere travelling at alarming speed.

Yawn! here we go again... the Argus moaning anti-cycling motorists are cutting and pasting-in the same old tired arguments... are you lot honestly saying you'd prefer me being in a big 4x4 like you clogging up your road (the one you pay for with your 'road tax') - or be on a tiny bike that you hardly notice until one zooms past you in a traffic jam? I'll bet the motorists on here haven't opened a copy of the Highway Code since they passed their tests back in the 50s!

Cyclists tend to ignore the Highway code, motorists get the blame, regardless to who is at fault.

Pedestrians always have the right of way by law so if you're not walking you have to give way.

(a) Where in Brighton can you average more than 5mph anyway? (b) From my own observations over many years Brighton's cyclists need intensive training in The Highway Code, The Road Traffic Act, the Lighting Regulations pertaining to pedal cycles, the wearing of high vis. clothing, and last but not least, common decency and good manners!

And what is a 'Bricycle' anyway? More Argus gobbledy-speak?

Yawn, blame the cyclists, yawn, highway code, yawn, road tax etc.. It's like a struck record of ignorance on here.

Us healthy cyclists will be paying for all you driver's health problems over time so you should be trying to keep us alive, not cutting us up all the time.

I am really looking forward to seeing less cars on the road in 10 years time when only the rich will be able to afford to drive.

Gaz the great wrote:
Cyclists tend to ignore the Highway code, motorists get the blame, regardless to who is at fault.

I disagree. Lots of road users ignore the highway code, but cyclists always get the blame (well from you, anyway).

25% of all road users have scant disregard for other road users. Can you not concentrate all your annoyance at them, not just the 25% of idiot cyclists?

Norma Snockers wrote:
And what is a 'Bricycle' anyway? More Argus gobbledy-speak?

Its not in the least 'Argus gobbledy-speak'. Bricyclies is a Brighton cycling group which has been in existence nigh on 30 years.
'
Or about twice as long as you have been alive by my reckoning.
.
http://www.bricycles
.org.uk/index.php?op
tion=com_content&tas
k=view&id=27&Itemid=
56

freddo wrote:
Yawn! here we go again... the Argus moaning anti-cycling motorists are cutting and pasting-in the same old tired arguments... are you lot honestly saying you'd prefer me being in a big 4x4 like you clogging up your road (the one you pay for with your 'road tax') - or be on a tiny bike that you hardly notice until one zooms past you in a traffic jam? I'll bet the motorists on here haven't opened a copy of the Highway Code since they passed their tests back in the 50s!

Zooms past! hahahahahahahahahaha
ha, oh thats good. 50's, even better!

I'm in my 20s, very hard for me to have opened a copy of the Highway code in the 50's, but then i'm a motorist, what do i know?

I think what we should do is completely ban Cars from Brighton, the problem is rates would have to go up due to no revenue from parking, which is substantial, then maybe we could flatten all the hills to make riding bikes easier, as for money, I suppose we could tax the bikes coming into town, by the spoke or have a helmet tax.

or only tax bikes with round wheels.

Fercri Sakes wrote:

Gaz the great wrote: Cyclists tend to ignore the Highway code, motorists get the blame, regardless to who is at fault.

I disagree. Lots of road users ignore the highway code, but cyclists always get the blame (well from you, anyway). 25% of all road users have scant disregard for other road users. Can you not concentrate all your annoyance at them, not just the 25% of idiot cyclists?

Maybe you tell that to the cyclist who tried to undertake me in Ditchling on Saturday, even though i was indicating left & yes, there are very bad drivers out there as well.

Cyclists on the sea front cycle route exceed 20MPH regularly. They are an utter menace to pedestrians. When they change their arragant attitude perhaps they could expect things to change for them.

Bit slow off the blocks tonight aren't we Yorkie. I'm very disappointed that you were not first to comment on this very controversial subject

Who pays for all the cycle lanes............roa
d tax payers; who pays road tax and insurance to be allowed to use the roads...............
....motorists.
Every morning, I see a white fold-up bike being ridden down Coombe Road, then turns left into Lewes Road, going through reds lights, often with no lights on, doesn't wear any protective clothing etc. and I beleive he works for the bus company!!!! When the constabulary start pulling over the cyclists that regularly flout the Highway Code, and the cyclist community are forced to pay some form of road tax and insurance then I for one will begin to pay them more respect, until that time (which will never happen) they should keep 'shtoom' instead of trying to lobby for this and that as they have it pretty easy when it comes to the financial side of traveling!! Just think, if ever motorists were ever a minority then the government would have to find another way to induce the revenue lost from road tax and fuel taxes...............
.............Think on cyclists, your days of free travel could be numbered.

Saker-Clive wrote:
Who pays for all the cycle lanes............roa

d tax payers; who pays road tax and insurance to be allowed to use the roads...............

....motorists.
Every morning, I see a white fold-up bike being ridden down Coombe Road, then turns left into Lewes Road, going through reds lights, often with no lights on, doesn't wear any protective clothing etc. and I beleive he works for the bus company!!!! When the constabulary start pulling over the cyclists that regularly flout the Highway Code, and the cyclist community are forced to pay some form of road tax and insurance then I for one will begin to pay them more respect, until that time (which will never happen) they should keep 'shtoom' instead of trying to lobby for this and that as they have it pretty easy when it comes to the financial side of traveling!! Just think, if ever motorists were ever a minority then the government would have to find another way to induce the revenue lost from road tax and fuel taxes...............

.............Think on cyclists, your days of free travel could be numbered.

Oh dear, another one who was absent when they gave out the brains.
ROADS ARE PAID FOR OUT OF COUNCIL TAX AND GENERAL TAXATION - MOST ADULTS (CYCLISTS AND NON-CYCLISTS) PAY FOR THE ROADS.
ROAD TAX DOES NOT EXIST.
God, people really are daft aren't they?
If you don't understand the above concept, don't even bother to make a point like the quoted, as it's simply a waste of energy.

when you pay to use the roads then you can have your say untill then shut up moaning

Cyclists should be forced to have third party insurance and have some form of registration number on the back of their bikes the same as other road users. Too many times cyclists have caused accidents by running redlights etc etc and wobbled off into the distance safe in the knowledge that there is no way of identifying them. The bus i was travelling on today had to do an emergency stop at rock gardens because a cyclist ran a red light. The driver hit the brakes and the horn, just missing the cyclist. Two "oldies" ended up on the floor - and the cyclist just stuck two fingers up at the bus as he cycled away knowing he was untraceable. i would say most cyclists are reasonably careful road users. Its the inconsiderate / stupid minority who get the rest a bad name. We are all road users in one form or another, be it cyclists or drivers. A bit of care and consideration goes a long way!

I cycle, drive a car and ride a motorbike.
There are also idiots, selfish people and lunatics in all of these three categories.
If you want to stay alive in/on any of these modes of transport, treat all other road users (inc pedestrians) as unpredictable incompetents.
This may help you stay alive a little longer.
I was on my bike last night and almost wiped out a young kid with an iPod on who walked across a road without looking. I was also travelling at about 28mph on my cycle so I too would have come a cropper.
Perhaps it's time we prosecuted pedestrians for 'jaywalking'. We could start with the strollers who think it's ok to walk across the Steine from St James Street when the lights tell them to stay on the pavement.

sussex tiger wrote:
when you pay to use the roads then you can have your say untill then shut up moaning

It's people like you that really make me want to puke, we ALL pay for the roads you ignoramus, just look on your council tax bill and you will see just how much goes to " highways ", so with all due respect I suggest it is you that shuts up!!!!!!!!.

Haven't even bothered reading the story. Rubbish. Read the comments - also rubbish. I ride a car, drive a bike, cycle a shopping trolley or some such rubbish. For God's sake get lives.

Not on my watch wrote:
Pedestrians always have the right of way by law so if you're not walking you have to give way.

That is true. A pedestrian would also have the right of way if they were walking along the middle of London Road. Does it mean that drivers should be happy that they are walking along London Road when there is a pavement there for them to use which allows traffic to and pedestrians to make there way on their journey? Does it make walking along the middle of a busy road sensible or considerate just because the highway code says they have the right of way?

Loving the way cyclists are demanding speed limits are cut yet it's still okay for them to go through red lights.

If they want to play with the cars and have cycle lanes running along the roads we car drivers use they need to start stopping at the traffic lights instead of endangering lives.

I know what I've said isn't directly related to speed cuts but if they want us to change, they need to change too!

What is the speed limit for bicycles using pavements and those negotiating red traffic lights or one way streets the wrong way?

Masterchav wrote:
Hopefully the Argus will buy me a new keyboard cos I've just spat my lunch out laughing at the "fast moving traffic" bit.

Fast moving bikes more like. A friend's 4 year old was knocked over by a bike on New Road recently, and I've been crashed into by cyclists riding down the pavement on Dyke Road, the seafront and others. Not because I wasn't looking - but they appear from nowhere travelling at alarming speed.

I was walking along Beaconsfield rd on the pavement towards Beaconsfield Villas , when a woman came hurtling behind me on a bike shouting at me to get out of her way. As she went passed she shouted that she was scared of riding on the road. However, on viaduct road there is a cycle lane going the way she was cycling in. cyclists are a law unto themselves

JustRuss wrote:
Loving the way cyclists are demanding speed limits are cut yet it's still okay for them to go through red lights.

If they want to play with the cars and have cycle lanes running along the roads we car drivers use they need to start stopping at the traffic lights instead of endangering lives.

I know what I've said isn't directly related to speed cuts but if they want us to change, they need to change too!

As a proper cyclist I do agree that some (unfortunately quite a lot) of cyclist's have no regard for the law or common sense, it always makes me cringe when I see cyclist's charge through red lights or those idiots that never have any form of lighting on their bike, so yes you do have a valid point, however the majority of motorists I come across are much worse, a car driver is supposed to by law give a cyclist the same distance as a car whilst overtaking (usually about 4ft, not 2in from the handlebars), also what makes some motorists think it is acceptable to drive so close behind a cyclist we can almost feel the heat from the engine, it is high time motorists realise us cyclist's do not have to ride in the gutter, we can by law ride in the middle of our side of the road and it is much safer to do this as we can be seen better, and why do most motorists think everyone else is a mind reader when it comes to junctions and roundabouts!, indicators were put there for a reason please people use them!!.

Isn't is noticable how the pro cycling lobby all have that same way of treating everybody who dares make a comment they don't agree with like a five year old.

Just to clarify; I like in Brighton. I drive a car because I need one for work and I actually enjoy driving. It's not some great big polluting 4x4 but a new diesel which uses the latest technology to ensure it is considerably less polluting than a Toyota Prius over its whole lifetime. I have a full, clean driving license. I pay £500 a year insurance and £120 road tax. I am lucky enough to have somewhere off road to park it but it still costs me £240 a year to do so. I also ride a bike; a year old MTB which I ensure is maintained to the highest standards, it has lights and I wear high-vis clothing. I also have for my own peace of mind Public Liability Insurance which costs me £50 per year and should cover me if I'm involved in an accident and cause injury to somebody else. I enjoy riding on road and also throwing it around a forest and getting muddy.
I drive in a "spirited" manner as I enjoy driving but I always drive with due consideration for other road users, pedestrians, cyclists or other drivers.
I NEVER ride my bike on pavements, I use hand signals and I observe the Highway Code.
I think even "proper" cyclists can be a menace and most pedestrians should be sent back to school for a day to learn how to use a pavement!
If the "pro cycling" morons on here fancy picking holes in any of the above please feel free but I think you get the picture..........

I'm a cyclist, and I have to agree with most of the comments here. The vast majority of cyclists are idiots. About time the police clamped down on it so that us decent cyclists can claw back some kind of decent reputation.

All these cyclist complaining about speed cuts what about their own mid-judgement dis-obeying the law when were cyclist allowed to pedal as fast as they can up a one way road (ship street) then moan when pedestrians (me) are crossing a clear road to get to the other side and then hurl abuse... er excuse me im crossing the road no cars are coming along and you aren't supposed to be pedalling in the middle of the road up a one way street same goes for all the other one way streets/road arghhhhhhhhh get of your high horse and follow the right way around bloody brighton and hove! And since when were cyclist allowed to cycle around the lanes **FOOTPATH** you have a designated cycle lane and moan if people step into it then hurl abuse at us were walking on our designated footpath and we will moan at you... so go away and stick to the rules and regulations grrrr

20 mph for cars because cyclists want it?
It's never going to happen - the same as *most* cyclists are never going to obey the Highway Code.
Us motorists can be fined and get points on our licence for speeding or bad driving.
What do cyclists get??????????
Sweet f.a.

It is about time cyclists took responsibility for their actions rather than blaming motorists!!

Before you two wheeled greenies complain, I spend much of my time cycling and do agree the standard of driving in Sussex is poor compared to the rest of the UK (as are the roads Mr Council man). However, cyclist need to understand a few things:

When it is dark, drivers cannot see you if you do not have any lights!!

If you squeeze down the side of traffic waiting to turn left at traffic lights, you will be squashed and probably die.

Traffic lights apply to you as well; the red one means stop.

The pavements are not there for you to take short cuts.

Pedestrians hate you as much as you hate car drivers!!!!

So, please get your house in order before you moan about the speed of traffic, which is in any event averages less than 20MPH!!!

toldsloth wrote:
Isn't is noticable how the pro cycling lobby all have that same way of treating everybody who dares make a comment they don't agree with like a five year old.

Just to clarify; I like in Brighton. I drive a car because I need one for work and I actually enjoy driving. It's not some great big polluting 4x4 but a new diesel which uses the latest technology to ensure it is considerably less polluting than a Toyota Prius over its whole lifetime. I have a full, clean driving license. I pay £500 a year insurance and £120 road tax. I am lucky enough to have somewhere off road to park it but it still costs me £240 a year to do so. I also ride a bike; a year old MTB which I ensure is maintained to the highest standards, it has lights and I wear high-vis clothing. I also have for my own peace of mind Public Liability Insurance which costs me £50 per year and should cover me if I'm involved in an accident and cause injury to somebody else. I enjoy riding on road and also throwing it around a forest and getting muddy.
I drive in a "spirited" manner as I enjoy driving but I always drive with due consideration for other road users, pedestrians, cyclists or other drivers.
I NEVER ride my bike on pavements, I use hand signals and I observe the Highway Code.
I think even "proper" cyclists can be a menace and most pedestrians should be sent back to school for a day to learn how to use a pavement!
If the "pro cycling" morons on here fancy picking holes in any of the above please feel free but I think you get the picture..........

Yr the Pride mascot?

As a cyclist, these people do not represent my views.

Today was a pure classic; on the news page there is a video regarding the 'I Bike Train'..............
..............well, at 08.45 this morning along the Lewes road was the said people with about 15 'trainees' all riding 2-3 abreast on the main highway and totally ignoring the specially purpose built cycle lane and holding up a lot of the rush hour traffic!!!! now that's pretty ironic don't you think. The guy preaching about training for road use etc. and the whole group riding 3 abreast which by the ways cyclists is illegal!!

Saker-Clive wrote:
Today was a pure classic; on the news page there is a video regarding the 'I Bike Train'..............
..............well, at 08.45 this morning along the Lewes road was the said people with about 15 'trainees' all riding 2-3 abreast on the main highway and totally ignoring the specially purpose built cycle lane and holding up a lot of the rush hour traffic!!!! now that's pretty ironic don't you think. The guy preaching about training for road use etc. and the whole group riding 3 abreast which by the ways cyclists is illegal!!

I agree that whilst 3 abreast is illegal, but riding 2 abreast is fully legal, in-fact it is safer to ride two abreast!!.

The Highway Code, Rules for Cyclists 59-82 clearly states..............
....

66
You should

keep both hands on the handlebars except when signalling or changing gear
keep both feet on the pedals
never ride more than two abreast, and ride in single file on narrow or busy roads and when riding round bends
not ride close behind another vehicle
not carry anything which will affect your balance or may get tangled up with your wheels or chain
be considerate of other road users, particularly blind and partially sighted pedestrians. Let them know you are there when necessary, for example, by ringing your bell if you have one. It is recommended that a bell be fitted

Lewes Road is classed as a busy road, so again it proves that they were not complying with the Code and being inconsiderate for not using the properly developed part of the highway designed for their purpose.

We are also allowed to take up as much space as a car, in other words we are allowed (and should) cycle in the middle of our side of the road, not in the gutter as some motorists expect us to, so it is totally irrelevant if we cycle 2 abreast or not as we take up the same amount of space!.

On 1st August 1999, new legislation came into force to allow a fixed penalty notice to be served on anyone who is guilty of cycling on a footway. However the Home Office issued guidance on how the new legislation should be applied, indicating that they should only be used where a cyclist is riding in a manner that may endanger others. At the time Home Office Minister Paul Boateng issued a letter stating that:
"The introduction of the fixed penalty is not aimed at responsible cyclists who sometimes feel obliged to use the pavement out of fear of traffic and who show consideration to other pavement users when doing so. Chief police officers, who are responsible for enforcement, acknowledge that many cyclists, particularly children and young people, are afraid to cycle on the road, sensitivity and careful use of police discretion is required."
Almost identical advice has since been issued by the Home Office with regards the use of fixed penalty notices by 'Community Support Officers' and wardens.
"CSOs and accredited persons will be accountable in the same way as police officers. They will be under the direction and control of the chief officer, supervised on a daily basis by the local community beat officer and will be subject to the same police complaints system. The Government have included provision in the Anti Social Behaviour Bill to enable CSOs and accredited persons to stop those cycling irresponsibly on the pavement in order to issue a fixed penalty notice.
I should stress that the issue is about inconsiderate cycling on the pavements. The new provisions are not aimed at responsible cyclists who sometimes feel obliged to use the pavement out of fear of the traffic, and who show consideration to other road users when doing so. Chief officers recognise that the fixed penalty needs to be used with a considerable degree of discretion and it cannot be issued to anyone under the age of 16. (Letter to Mr H. Peel from John Crozier of The Home Office, reference T5080/4, 23 February 2004)

big nasty,I so support your comments.Got knocked off my bike many years ago,and since then i wouldnt dream of cycling on a busy rd.I go careful,slowly and considerately on pavements.Lets be realistic,thers lots of pavements which are ample wide enough to allow myself on bike and pedestrians,there's paths and grass verges and obvously i am extra careful cycling past houses(in case some1 is walking out)Once you get to moulsecoomb there is lots of grass and pathways and a path continuing to stanmer.These cyclists that are endangering their lives on these roads are mad.On the other hand if they're gona speed along a crowded path with no regard for whoever may be walking along in front them they shouldnt be there.

Arronsmum wrote:
big nasty,I so support your comments.Got knocked off my bike many years ago,and since then i wouldnt dream of cycling on a busy rd.I go careful,slowly and considerately on pavements.Lets be realistic,thers lots of pavements which are ample wide enough to allow myself on bike and pedestrians,there's paths and grass verges and obvously i am extra careful cycling past houses(in case some1 is walking out)Once you get to moulsecoomb there is lots of grass and pathways and a path continuing to stanmer.These cyclists that are endangering their lives on these roads are mad.On the other hand if they're gona speed along a crowded path with no regard for whoever may be walking along in front them they shouldnt be there.

I disagree, take for example the cycle lane, opposite the entrance to Preston Park, on Viaduct Road, the cyclist get the clear bit, and the pedestrians have to climb over the wheelie bins and black boxes that are permanently on the pavement. Out side the Duke of York's there is almost no pavement left for pedestrians

stan bailey wrote:

Arronsmum wrote:
big nasty,I so support your comments.Got knocked off my bike many years ago,and since then i wouldnt dream of cycling on a busy rd.I go careful,slowly and considerately on pavements.Lets be realistic,thers lots of pavements which are ample wide enough to allow myself on bike and pedestrians,there's paths and grass verges and obvously i am extra careful cycling past houses(in case some1 is walking out)Once you get to moulsecoomb there is lots of grass and pathways and a path continuing to stanmer.These cyclists that are endangering their lives on these roads are mad.On the other hand if they're gona speed along a crowded path with no regard for whoever may be walking along in front them they shouldnt be there.

I disagree, take for example the cycle lane, opposite the entrance to Preston Park, on Viaduct Road, the cyclist get the clear bit, and the pedestrians have to climb over the wheelie bins and black boxes that are permanently on the pavement. Out side the Duke of York's there is almost no pavement left for pedestrians

Well the answer is twofold, first off the council should start to prosecute householders for obstructing the pavement!, and secondly which in my opinion is the most logical is to adopt the system that is in place on the continent (well mostly anyway), that is all of the pavements are for shared use with pedestrians and cyclists but with the police coming down like a ton of bricks on the numpty's that cycle like idiots, and guess what! it works, in my travels to different country's I must say that this one is the most cycle unfriendly of them all, I think what arronsmum is saying is what most of us cyclists feel.....common sense should prevail, in actual fact I would argue that riding a bike slowly on the pavement is less of a problem than pushing it, as if you are pushing it on a narrow pavement the extra space taken up by being off the bike and next to it can cause a blockage on the pavement!!!!!!.

The council have spent millions on cycle lanes in this town, in fact the council wants it to be a "centre of cycling excellence" yet we are still faced with inconsiderate morons riding bikes on pavements. Take a walk up Preston Road from the Viaduct. I guarantee that you will be faced with at least one if not more cyclists riding down the pavement towards you. This is despite the fact there is a cycle lane in both directions and the road runs parallel to The Ride in Preston Park which is a perfect place to amble along on a bike. If cyclists STILL think its ok to ride down a pavement when you have this level of SPECIFIC provision it just goes to demonstrate how inconsiderate they really are. Now as a cyclist myself I do think that some of the cycle lanes must have been drawn up by a complete and utter lunatic - witness the seafront lane, about which some idiot on here was jumping up and down about pedestrians daring to walk in is simply unsafe in many areas. That said if there is a cycle lane provided for crying out loud use it!!
As for "I'm too scared to ride my bike on the road" - how pathetic - please for everybodys sake refrain from riding altogether. It is obvious you are a danger to yourself and others and simply deciding to utilise a pavement "slowly and considerately" is not on. You are invading the space allocated for pedestrians. As a car driver I am not allowed to drive on the pavement because I feel to scared to use the road! Pavements are a "safe space" and can have children and elderly people using them and if you hit one you will cause serious damage possibly even death. Think about it and get some proper training.
Look, lots of nonsense has been spouted on here. The reality is that car drivers need to use their eyes and watch out for cyclists - give them room when overtaking and remember if you knock one off there is a very high chance of causing serious injury. Use your left hand mirror when turning left - its called "the life saver" and it may stop you squashing some moron on a bike who's inside of you. Cyclists - ride defensivly and with due regard for the highway code. Make sure you are visible, stop at traffic lights, don't ride on pavements and don't ride the wrong way down one-way streets. Also please don't ride up the inside of vehicles as most drivers don't check their mirror when turning left. Pedestrians - learn to be more aware of your surroundings and the fact that there are idiots out there who are intent on ignoring the fact that the piece of land you are using to walk on is called a pavement and is for your sole use!

By the way - Big Nasty - stop using legislation to hde behind. Your views are indicative of why we have such an issue and are not helpful.

toldsloth wrote:

voiceofthescoombe wrote:
fast moving traffic? I think not :) could cross town and get back before another member of staff had parked. standard of roadcraft does not exsist in Brighton. green cross code training for pedistrians would be a start then cyclists some sort of Test for car and van drivers would be a godd idea as well. its amazing people are allowed to get behind the wheels of a car with no training.

What planet are you on?
Drivers have to pass a Driving Test but cyclists do not!
They can hop on a bike and ride wherever and however they want down pavements, the wrong way down one way streets, ignore traffic lights and speed limits......yes I was nearly mown down by a numptie on a bike in Trafalgar Street last week who was travelling well in excess of the posted 20mph speed limit and when HE almost hit me I was subjected to a volley of abuse. I should add that this was a "proper" cyclist on a carbon crotch-rocket with more lycra than Olivia Newton John so should have known better in my book. Correspondingly my partner was almost knocked off her MTB in New England Road the other Saturday by some idiot in a Vauxhall Safira who was too busy looking at his kid in the backseat to see her bike.
Before the rabid pro-cycle lobby kicks off, I ride a bike and I'm also a car driver. When I'm out on my bike I make sure I stop at red lights and generally obey the highway code. This includes having the correct lighting. THIS IS NOT ROCKET SCIENCE!! Unless cyclists get it through their thick skulls that car drivers need to be able to not only see them but they also need to know that they are not going to be faced with them hammering down a one way street into oncoming traffic or behaving as if they are immortal.
Car drivers need to look out more and pay less attention to mobile phones, stereos, kids in the back or unwrapping that delicious choccy bar. I am all for increased training for cyclists AND car drivers but please do remember that car drivers are required by law to have a license which at the very least guarantees a minimum standard of roadcraft, they are also required to pay to use the road and they are also required to have insurance and an MOT. Cyclist are not reuired to have even the most basic instruction and as for insurance.........
We do not need an enforced 20mph speed limit in Brighton. It is already probably the most car unfriendly city in the UK with poor traffic flow and almost no car parking spaces. We are also the victims of Mr.French and his merry men who seem to think its OK to drive their big red buses at illegal speeds and with absolutely no regard whatsoever for other road users or pedestrians. Tackle those idiots before slapping yet another restriction on the poor motorist who is already at his wits end.
An enforced 20mph speed limit is unnecessary however improved training for cyclists AND car drivers alike IS needed. Whats also need is for the police to stop cyclists without lights or crash helmets and give then a ticket.

You are quite right, car drivers are required to show they have reached a minimum standard, and very low that standard is.
Since its' inception the driving test has been there to ensure sure one thing only; that those too dangerous to be allowed on the roads are not given a licence. That's it, sum and total.

Old Ladys Gin wrote:

toldsloth wrote:

voiceofthescoombe wrote: fast moving traffic? I think not :) could cross town and get back before another member of staff had parked. standard of roadcraft does not exsist in Brighton. green cross code training for pedistrians would be a start then cyclists some sort of Test for car and van drivers would be a godd idea as well. its amazing people are allowed to get behind the wheels of a car with no training.

What planet are you on? Drivers have to pass a Driving Test but cyclists do not! They can hop on a bike and ride wherever and however they want down pavements, the wrong way down one way streets, ignore traffic lights and speed limits......yes I was nearly mown down by a numptie on a bike in Trafalgar Street last week who was travelling well in excess of the posted 20mph speed limit and when HE almost hit me I was subjected to a volley of abuse. I should add that this was a "proper" cyclist on a carbon crotch-rocket with more lycra than Olivia Newton John so should have known better in my book. Correspondingly my partner was almost knocked off her MTB in New England Road the other Saturday by some idiot in a Vauxhall Safira who was too busy looking at his kid in the backseat to see her bike. Before the rabid pro-cycle lobby kicks off, I ride a bike and I'm also a car driver. When I'm out on my bike I make sure I stop at red lights and generally obey the highway code. This includes having the correct lighting. THIS IS NOT ROCKET SCIENCE!! Unless cyclists get it through their thick skulls that car drivers need to be able to not only see them but they also need to know that they are not going to be faced with them hammering down a one way street into oncoming traffic or behaving as if they are immortal. Car drivers need to look out more and pay less attention to mobile phones, stereos, kids in the back or unwrapping that delicious choccy bar. I am all for increased training for cyclists AND car drivers but please do remember that car drivers are required by law to have a license which at the very least guarantees a minimum standard of roadcraft, they are also required to pay to use the road and they are also required to have insurance and an MOT. Cyclist are not reuired to have even the most basic instruction and as for insurance......... We do not need an enforced 20mph speed limit in Brighton. It is already probably the most car unfriendly city in the UK with poor traffic flow and almost no car parking spaces. We are also the victims of Mr.French and his merry men who seem to think its OK to drive their big red buses at illegal speeds and with absolutely no regard whatsoever for other road users or pedestrians. Tackle those idiots before slapping yet another restriction on the poor motorist who is already at his wits end. An enforced 20mph speed limit is unnecessary however improved training for cyclists AND car drivers alike IS needed. Whats also need is for the police to stop cyclists without lights or crash helmets and give then a ticket.

You are quite right, car drivers are required to show they have reached a minimum standard, and very low that standard is. Since its' inception the driving test has been there to ensure sure one thing only; that those too dangerous to be allowed on the roads are not given a licence. That's it, sum and total.

The current driving test IS inadequate and I and the rest of the country have to put up with it's inadequacies on a daily basis however thats not the point and you know it. Anybody can get on a bike and ride it wherever they like be that road, pavement, park etc etc.
Lets take a typical Hybrid; Cannondal Bad Boy. Thats 13kg before you add the rider, lights and other bits and bobs. Lets be conservative and say the whole lot weighs 100kg. 100kg travelling down a pavement at even 10mph will cause a lot of damage to an adult, not to mention the cyclist themselves. Now imagine if the cylist hits a small child at 10mph........
As far as I am aware, it is not commonplace to find car drivers dodging pedestrians on pavements in the city........
The driving test needs revamping but by the same token, there should be a minimum proficiency test for cyclists and possibly some form of licensing if we are going to end this lunacy and "demanding" a blanket 20mph speed limit in Brighton is not the way forward. Education IS, for car drivers, cyclists and pedestrians alike.
I would however fully support a 10mph speed limit on Western Road and North Street. Have a look at the stats for accidents involving pedestrians and buses and you'll see what I mean.

I'm not sure the answer is to reduce the speed limit. The current 30mph tends to be treated as a minimum speed rather than a maximum by the majority.
See them brake - accelerate at any speed camera to confirm!

By the way, I think (according to my rudimentary grasp of Newtons Third Law) that the force of impact that results from 100kg of bike and rider hitting something at 10mph is 2000N although I could be wrong and I'm sure there are people out there who can correct my awful calculations :-)

Whatever, its going to cause a lot of damage and if it was your toddler, you'd probably be spending some time at the Royal Alexandra.......and that's if you're lucky.

Think about this next time you take to the pavement "slowly and considerately" - 10mph isn't very fast........

Lots of misreadings going on here.
.
The headline says Bricycle are demanding it.
.
a) Their actual quote is that "we are fully supporting moves to introduce a 20mph speed limit." Not so much a demand, really.
.
b) Cyclists aren't calling for it. As a cyclist, I'm not calling for it. Show me the same consideration I show you (and I do show other road users consideration) and I don't care if you go 20mph, 30mph or 40mph.
.
Yet the comments on here seem to act as if this is the result of a survey of every cyclist, as if there is a big momvement, people are on the march "demanding" change. It isn't, we aren't on the move.
.
As a cyclist, all I ask is for other people, whether fellow cyclists, pedestrians or car users to show me the same consideration I show everyone. I think everyone would find travelling to be a better experience.
.
While I'm on this track, I would like to point out every bus driver I've encountered on the roads has shown me nothing but patience and consideration, and think they deserve big props for that.

Acker79

Well said on many counts but the headline DOES read;

"Brighton cycling group demand speed limit cuts" and goes on to say "Bricycles demanded action" in the second paragraph. The word "Demand" may not have been used by Bricycles themselves but the comments on here are based on the Argus story.

I absolutely love Adam Pride's comment;

“There is also not much in terms to promote safe cycling in Brighton among adults and I don't think there's much in terms of infrastructure to safeguard cyclists.”

So what about all the miles of cycle lanes that have been installed (for want of a better word) sometimes at the expense of traffic movement around the city and certainly at the expense of pedestrian safety (seafront cycle lane). This council spends millions on cycling provisions - not all of it sucessful but it DOES spend considerably more than most.

Don't agree about the bus drivers though but thats another issue altogether :-)

toldsloth wrote:
The council have spent millions on cycle lanes in this town, in fact the council wants it to be a "centre of cycling excellence" yet we are still faced with inconsiderate morons riding bikes on pavements. Take a walk up Preston Road from the Viaduct. I guarantee that you will be faced with at least one if not more cyclists riding down the pavement towards you. This is despite the fact there is a cycle lane in both directions and the road runs parallel to The Ride in Preston Park which is a perfect place to amble along on a bike. If cyclists STILL think its ok to ride down a pavement when you have this level of SPECIFIC provision it just goes to demonstrate how inconsiderate they really are. Now as a cyclist myself I do think that some of the cycle lanes must have been drawn up by a complete and utter lunatic - witness the seafront lane, about which some idiot on here was jumping up and down about pedestrians daring to walk in is simply unsafe in many areas. That said if there is a cycle lane provided for crying out loud use it!!
As for "I'm too scared to ride my bike on the road" - how pathetic - please for everybodys sake refrain from riding altogether. It is obvious you are a danger to yourself and others and simply deciding to utilise a pavement "slowly and considerately" is not on. You are invading the space allocated for pedestrians. As a car driver I am not allowed to drive on the pavement because I feel to scared to use the road! Pavements are a "safe space" and can have children and elderly people using them and if you hit one you will cause serious damage possibly even death. Think about it and get some proper training.
Look, lots of nonsense has been spouted on here. The reality is that car drivers need to use their eyes and watch out for cyclists - give them room when overtaking and remember if you knock one off there is a very high chance of causing serious injury. Use your left hand mirror when turning left - its called "the life saver" and it may stop you squashing some moron on a bike who's inside of you. Cyclists - ride defensivly and with due regard for the highway code. Make sure you are visible, stop at traffic lights, don't ride on pavements and don't ride the wrong way down one-way streets. Also please don't ride up the inside of vehicles as most drivers don't check their mirror when turning left. Pedestrians - learn to be more aware of your surroundings and the fact that there are idiots out there who are intent on ignoring the fact that the piece of land you are using to walk on is called a pavement and is for your sole use!

By the way - Big Nasty - stop using legislation to hde behind. Your views are indicative of why we have such an issue and are not helpful.

I am only pointing out the LAW, and if the law says I can ride on the pavement in certain circumstances and if I feel the necessity I will (within the law) do so and if you don't like that, then tough luck!!, my views are not why we have a problem!, it is inconsiderate numpty's that cause the issue not sensible cyclist's that sometimes feel the need to use the pavement in a considerate fashion!, Oh and the reason I don't use some cycle lanes is they are full of imbeciles that think the cycle lanes make a good car park, also some of them are down right dangerous!.

Big Nasty wrote:

toldsloth wrote: The council have spent millions on cycle lanes in this town, in fact the council wants it to be a "centre of cycling excellence" yet we are still faced with inconsiderate morons riding bikes on pavements. Take a walk up Preston Road from the Viaduct. I guarantee that you will be faced with at least one if not more cyclists riding down the pavement towards you. This is despite the fact there is a cycle lane in both directions and the road runs parallel to The Ride in Preston Park which is a perfect place to amble along on a bike. If cyclists STILL think its ok to ride down a pavement when you have this level of SPECIFIC provision it just goes to demonstrate how inconsiderate they really are. Now as a cyclist myself I do think that some of the cycle lanes must have been drawn up by a complete and utter lunatic - witness the seafront lane, about which some idiot on here was jumping up and down about pedestrians daring to walk in is simply unsafe in many areas. That said if there is a cycle lane provided for crying out loud use it!! As for "I'm too scared to ride my bike on the road" - how pathetic - please for everybodys sake refrain from riding altogether. It is obvious you are a danger to yourself and others and simply deciding to utilise a pavement "slowly and considerately" is not on. You are invading the space allocated for pedestrians. As a car driver I am not allowed to drive on the pavement because I feel to scared to use the road! Pavements are a "safe space" and can have children and elderly people using them and if you hit one you will cause serious damage possibly even death. Think about it and get some proper training. Look, lots of nonsense has been spouted on here. The reality is that car drivers need to use their eyes and watch out for cyclists - give them room when overtaking and remember if you knock one off there is a very high chance of causing serious injury. Use your left hand mirror when turning left - its called "the life saver" and it may stop you squashing some moron on a bike who's inside of you. Cyclists - ride defensivly and with due regard for the highway code. Make sure you are visible, stop at traffic lights, don't ride on pavements and don't ride the wrong way down one-way streets. Also please don't ride up the inside of vehicles as most drivers don't check their mirror when turning left. Pedestrians - learn to be more aware of your surroundings and the fact that there are idiots out there who are intent on ignoring the fact that the piece of land you are using to walk on is called a pavement and is for your sole use! By the way - Big Nasty - stop using legislation to hde behind. Your views are indicative of why we have such an issue and are not helpful.

I am only pointing out the LAW, and if the law says I can ride on the pavement in certain circumstances and if I feel the necessity I will (within the law) do so and if you don't like that, then tough luck!!, my views are not why we have a problem!, it is inconsiderate numpty's that cause the issue not sensible cyclist's that sometimes feel the need to use the pavement in a considerate fashion!, Oh and the reason I don't use some cycle lanes is they are full of imbeciles that think the cycle lanes make a good car park, also some of them are down right dangerous!.

It's not that I don't like it, IT'S DOWNRIGHT DANGEROUS! There is NO such thing as "using a pavement in a considerate fashion" - if you hit a pedestrian even "considerately" you will hurt them! If you hit a child its going to be even worse. Can you imagine knocking an elderly person over - they can break bones veru easily. If you end up breaking some poor old dears hip you will possibly have sentended her to death and it doesn't matter how "considerately" you used the pavement. It really infuriates me how some people take the view "I'm entitled to do this so I will" or "I'm different to those other idiots because I'm doing this in a considerate fashion". The bottom line is riding a bike on a pavement is dangerous and shouldn't be done under any circumstances. If you cannot negotiate a road then you get off and walk and tough if you don't want to damage your SPD's.

toldsloth wrote:

Big Nasty wrote:

toldsloth wrote: The council have spent millions on cycle lanes in this town, in fact the council wants it to be a "centre of cycling excellence" yet we are still faced with inconsiderate morons riding bikes on pavements. Take a walk up Preston Road from the Viaduct. I guarantee that you will be faced with at least one if not more cyclists riding down the pavement towards you. This is despite the fact there is a cycle lane in both directions and the road runs parallel to The Ride in Preston Park which is a perfect place to amble along on a bike. If cyclists STILL think its ok to ride down a pavement when you have this level of SPECIFIC provision it just goes to demonstrate how inconsiderate they really are. Now as a cyclist myself I do think that some of the cycle lanes must have been drawn up by a complete and utter lunatic - witness the seafront lane, about which some idiot on here was jumping up and down about pedestrians daring to walk in is simply unsafe in many areas. That said if there is a cycle lane provided for crying out loud use it!! As for "I'm too scared to ride my bike on the road" - how pathetic - please for everybodys sake refrain from riding altogether. It is obvious you are a danger to yourself and others and simply deciding to utilise a pavement "slowly and considerately" is not on. You are invading the space allocated for pedestrians. As a car driver I am not allowed to drive on the pavement because I feel to scared to use the road! Pavements are a "safe space" and can have children and elderly people using them and if you hit one you will cause serious damage possibly even death. Think about it and get some proper training. Look, lots of nonsense has been spouted on here. The reality is that car drivers need to use their eyes and watch out for cyclists - give them room when overtaking and remember if you knock one off there is a very high chance of causing serious injury. Use your left hand mirror when turning left - its called "the life saver" and it may stop you squashing some moron on a bike who's inside of you. Cyclists - ride defensivly and with due regard for the highway code. Make sure you are visible, stop at traffic lights, don't ride on pavements and don't ride the wrong way down one-way streets. Also please don't ride up the inside of vehicles as most drivers don't check their mirror when turning left. Pedestrians - learn to be more aware of your surroundings and the fact that there are idiots out there who are intent on ignoring the fact that the piece of land you are using to walk on is called a pavement and is for your sole use! By the way - Big Nasty - stop using legislation to hde behind. Your views are indicative of why we have such an issue and are not helpful.

I am only pointing out the LAW, and if the law says I can ride on the pavement in certain circumstances and if I feel the necessity I will (within the law) do so and if you don't like that, then tough luck!!, my views are not why we have a problem!, it is inconsiderate numpty's that cause the issue not sensible cyclist's that sometimes feel the need to use the pavement in a considerate fashion!, Oh and the reason I don't use some cycle lanes is they are full of imbeciles that think the cycle lanes make a good car park, also some of them are down right dangerous!.

It's not that I don't like it, IT'S DOWNRIGHT DANGEROUS! There is NO such thing as "using a pavement in a considerate fashion" - if you hit a pedestrian even "considerately" you will hurt them! If you hit a child its going to be even worse. Can you imagine knocking an elderly person over - they can break bones veru easily. If you end up breaking some poor old dears hip you will possibly have sentended her to death and it doesn't matter how "considerately" you used the pavement. It really infuriates me how some people take the view "I'm entitled to do this so I will" or "I'm different to those other idiots because I'm doing this in a considerate fashion". The bottom line is riding a bike on a pavement is dangerous and shouldn't be done under any circumstances. If you cannot negotiate a road then you get off and walk and tough if you don't want to damage your SPD's.

O.K. let's try to get this through your tiny little brain!, how many cyclists get killed on the roads every year?, hundreds, and how many pedestrians get killed by cyclists on the pavements every year, none!, (O.K. a couple years back 1) so by your own way of thinking ALL cyclists should ride on the pavement as it's safer for everyone!, Oh yes and what is your opinion on the old peoples electric disability buggies as these themselves weigh about 90kg with all those heavy batteries + the weight of the people (usually fat) and a speed of upto 17mph, they will do much more damage than a bicycle, and as a matter of fact there is a lot of accidents involving this type of buggy, so maybe you should direct your obsession toward these instead!.

maybe some of the cyclists who dont use the pavement, should consider purchasing appropriate safety gear - like a helmet!?

brightonian1234 wrote:
maybe some of the cyclists who dont use the pavement, should consider purchasing appropriate safety gear - like a helmet!?

Yeah I totally agree with that, it never ceases to amaze me the amount of cyclists that will spend £500 to over £2000 on the bike but seem to begrudge paying £50 or so for a helmet, or £50 for a decent set of lights, in fact I saw a moron the other day that didn't even have any brakes, he just scraped his feet along the road to stop!!!!, the mind boggles!.

Big Nasty wrote:

brightonian1234 wrote: maybe some of the cyclists who dont use the pavement, should consider purchasing appropriate safety gear - like a helmet!?

Yeah I totally agree with that, it never ceases to amaze me the amount of cyclists that will spend £500 to over £2000 on the bike but seem to begrudge paying £50 or so for a helmet, or £50 for a decent set of lights, in fact I saw a moron the other day that didn't even have any brakes, he just scraped his feet along the road to stop!!!!, the mind boggles!.

I rest my case!

Big Nasty wrote:

toldsloth wrote:

Big Nasty wrote:

toldsloth wrote: The council have spent millions on cycle lanes in this town, in fact the council wants it to be a "centre of cycling excellence" yet we are still faced with inconsiderate morons riding bikes on pavements. Take a walk up Preston Road from the Viaduct. I guarantee that you will be faced with at least one if not more cyclists riding down the pavement towards you. This is despite the fact there is a cycle lane in both directions and the road runs parallel to The Ride in Preston Park which is a perfect place to amble along on a bike. If cyclists STILL think its ok to ride down a pavement when you have this level of SPECIFIC provision it just goes to demonstrate how inconsiderate they really are. Now as a cyclist myself I do think that some of the cycle lanes must have been drawn up by a complete and utter lunatic - witness the seafront lane, about which some idiot on here was jumping up and down about pedestrians daring to walk in is simply unsafe in many areas. That said if there is a cycle lane provided for crying out loud use it!! As for "I'm too scared to ride my bike on the road" - how pathetic - please for everybodys sake refrain from riding altogether. It is obvious you are a danger to yourself and others and simply deciding to utilise a pavement "slowly and considerately" is not on. You are invading the space allocated for pedestrians. As a car driver I am not allowed to drive on the pavement because I feel to scared to use the road! Pavements are a "safe space" and can have children and elderly people using them and if you hit one you will cause serious damage possibly even death. Think about it and get some proper training. Look, lots of nonsense has been spouted on here. The reality is that car drivers need to use their eyes and watch out for cyclists - give them room when overtaking and remember if you knock one off there is a very high chance of causing serious injury. Use your left hand mirror when turning left - its called "the life saver" and it may stop you squashing some moron on a bike who's inside of you. Cyclists - ride defensivly and with due regard for the highway code. Make sure you are visible, stop at traffic lights, don't ride on pavements and don't ride the wrong way down one-way streets. Also please don't ride up the inside of vehicles as most drivers don't check their mirror when turning left. Pedestrians - learn to be more aware of your surroundings and the fact that there are idiots out there who are intent on ignoring the fact that the piece of land you are using to walk on is called a pavement and is for your sole use! By the way - Big Nasty - stop using legislation to hde behind. Your views are indicative of why we have such an issue and are not helpful.

I am only pointing out the LAW, and if the law says I can ride on the pavement in certain circumstances and if I feel the necessity I will (within the law) do so and if you don't like that, then tough luck!!, my views are not why we have a problem!, it is inconsiderate numpty's that cause the issue not sensible cyclist's that sometimes feel the need to use the pavement in a considerate fashion!, Oh and the reason I don't use some cycle lanes is they are full of imbeciles that think the cycle lanes make a good car park, also some of them are down right dangerous!.

It's not that I don't like it, IT'S DOWNRIGHT DANGEROUS! There is NO such thing as "using a pavement in a considerate fashion" - if you hit a pedestrian even "considerately" you will hurt them! If you hit a child its going to be even worse. Can you imagine knocking an elderly person over - they can break bones veru easily. If you end up breaking some poor old dears hip you will possibly have sentended her to death and it doesn't matter how "considerately" you used the pavement. It really infuriates me how some people take the view "I'm entitled to do this so I will" or "I'm different to those other idiots because I'm doing this in a considerate fashion". The bottom line is riding a bike on a pavement is dangerous and shouldn't be done under any circumstances. If you cannot negotiate a road then you get off and walk and tough if you don't want to damage your SPD's.

O.K. let's try to get this through your tiny little brain!, how many cyclists get killed on the roads every year?, hundreds, and how many pedestrians get killed by cyclists on the pavements every year, none!, (O.K. a couple years back 1) so by your own way of thinking ALL cyclists should ride on the pavement as it's safer for everyone!, Oh yes and what is your opinion on the old peoples electric disability buggies as these themselves weigh about 90kg with all those heavy batteries + the weight of the people (usually fat) and a speed of upto 17mph, they will do much more damage than a bicycle, and as a matter of fact there is a lot of accidents involving this type of buggy, so maybe you should direct your obsession toward these instead!.

OK thats just a little bit personal and unnecessary to be honest and statistically untrue; 5 O'Levels, 1 C&G , 1 BA.Hons thanks although this was back when they actually meant something and were hard to pass! Oh I forgot I've got a few professional qualifications associated with my work as well but that would be big headed! :-)
I actually don't think its worth arguing with you anymore because its painfully apparent that you are one of those types who do 70mph in the outside lane of the motorway and refuse to pull over "because you are doing the speed limit". I suppose even when faced with somebody telling you not to put your hand in the fire, you'd do it anyway (a) because you can, (b) because you read somewhere that its ok to do so and (c) because it will annoy the hell out of other people anyway!
The long and the short of it is that the overwhelming majority of people no matter what their mode of transport be it two or four wheels are pretty much in agreement that riding a bike on a pavement is not a very clever thing to do and in fact contributes to the general animosity people have towards cyclists. If you can't understand and accept that fact then fine, hopefully I'll not be the one you hit.
As for disabled / old age buggy's - they are a complete menace and the sooner the goverment introduces legislation to restrict them to walking pace the better. Certainly while on pavements anyway. The lunatic who rides his maroon one down the pavement on Preston Road at 15mph came rather too close to hitting my partner one evening for my tastes. Unfortunately its another case of the uptake of technology outrunning available legislation
You are mistaken when you say its an obsession of mine to hound cyclists off pavements. I'm a cyclist myself who really doesn't have any trouble whatsoever observing the highway code so its understandable why I'm confused when others seem incapable (or too small minded) to do so themselves. Perhaps it will take somebody "clotheslining" them as they go past before they'll get the idea!
Don't worry, I'm sure I'll find something else to occupy my time like getting on my bike and getting muddy in Friston this weekend!

toldsloth wrote:

Big Nasty wrote:

toldsloth wrote:

Big Nasty wrote:

toldsloth wrote: The council have spent millions on cycle lanes in this town, in fact the council wants it to be a "centre of cycling excellence" yet we are still faced with inconsiderate morons riding bikes on pavements. Take a walk up Preston Road from the Viaduct. I guarantee that you will be faced with at least one if not more cyclists riding down the pavement towards you. This is despite the fact there is a cycle lane in both directions and the road runs parallel to The Ride in Preston Park which is a perfect place to amble along on a bike. If cyclists STILL think its ok to ride down a pavement when you have this level of SPECIFIC provision it just goes to demonstrate how inconsiderate they really are. Now as a cyclist myself I do think that some of the cycle lanes must have been drawn up by a complete and utter lunatic - witness the seafront lane, about which some idiot on here was jumping up and down about pedestrians daring to walk in is simply unsafe in many areas. That said if there is a cycle lane provided for crying out loud use it!! As for "I'm too scared to ride my bike on the road" - how pathetic - please for everybodys sake refrain from riding altogether. It is obvious you are a danger to yourself and others and simply deciding to utilise a pavement "slowly and considerately" is not on. You are invading the space allocated for pedestrians. As a car driver I am not allowed to drive on the pavement because I feel to scared to use the road! Pavements are a "safe space" and can have children and elderly people using them and if you hit one you will cause serious damage possibly even death. Think about it and get some proper training. Look, lots of nonsense has been spouted on here. The reality is that car drivers need to use their eyes and watch out for cyclists - give them room when overtaking and remember if you knock one off there is a very high chance of causing serious injury. Use your left hand mirror when turning left - its called "the life saver" and it may stop you squashing some moron on a bike who's inside of you. Cyclists - ride defensivly and with due regard for the highway code. Make sure you are visible, stop at traffic lights, don't ride on pavements and don't ride the wrong way down one-way streets. Also please don't ride up the inside of vehicles as most drivers don't check their mirror when turning left. Pedestrians - learn to be more aware of your surroundings and the fact that there are idiots out there who are intent on ignoring the fact that the piece of land you are using to walk on is called a pavement and is for your sole use! By the way - Big Nasty - stop using legislation to hde behind. Your views are indicative of why we have such an issue and are not helpful.

I am only pointing out the LAW, and if the law says I can ride on the pavement in certain circumstances and if I feel the necessity I will (within the law) do so and if you don't like that, then tough luck!!, my views are not why we have a problem!, it is inconsiderate numpty's that cause the issue not sensible cyclist's that sometimes feel the need to use the pavement in a considerate fashion!, Oh and the reason I don't use some cycle lanes is they are full of imbeciles that think the cycle lanes make a good car park, also some of them are down right dangerous!.

It's not that I don't like it, IT'S DOWNRIGHT DANGEROUS! There is NO such thing as "using a pavement in a considerate fashion" - if you hit a pedestrian even "considerately" you will hurt them! If you hit a child its going to be even worse. Can you imagine knocking an elderly person over - they can break bones veru easily. If you end up breaking some poor old dears hip you will possibly have sentended her to death and it doesn't matter how "considerately" you used the pavement. It really infuriates me how some people take the view "I'm entitled to do this so I will" or "I'm different to those other idiots because I'm doing this in a considerate fashion". The bottom line is riding a bike on a pavement is dangerous and shouldn't be done under any circumstances. If you cannot negotiate a road then you get off and walk and tough if you don't want to damage your SPD's.

O.K. let's try to get this through your tiny little brain!, how many cyclists get killed on the roads every year?, hundreds, and how many pedestrians get killed by cyclists on the pavements every year, none!, (O.K. a couple years back 1) so by your own way of thinking ALL cyclists should ride on the pavement as it's safer for everyone!, Oh yes and what is your opinion on the old peoples electric disability buggies as these themselves weigh about 90kg with all those heavy batteries + the weight of the people (usually fat) and a speed of upto 17mph, they will do much more damage than a bicycle, and as a matter of fact there is a lot of accidents involving this type of buggy, so maybe you should direct your obsession toward these instead!.

OK thats just a little bit personal and unnecessary to be honest and statistically untrue; 5 O'Levels, 1 C&G , 1 BA.Hons thanks although this was back when they actually meant something and were hard to pass! Oh I forgot I've got a few professional qualifications associated with my work as well but that would be big headed! :-)
I actually don't think its worth arguing with you anymore because its painfully apparent that you are one of those types who do 70mph in the outside lane of the motorway and refuse to pull over "because you are doing the speed limit". I suppose even when faced with somebody telling you not to put your hand in the fire, you'd do it anyway (a) because you can, (b) because you read somewhere that its ok to do so and (c) because it will annoy the hell out of other people anyway!
The long and the short of it is that the overwhelming majority of people no matter what their mode of transport be it two or four wheels are pretty much in agreement that riding a bike on a pavement is not a very clever thing to do and in fact contributes to the general animosity people have towards cyclists. If you can't understand and accept that fact then fine, hopefully I'll not be the one you hit.
As for disabled / old age buggy's - they are a complete menace and the sooner the goverment introduces legislation to restrict them to walking pace the better. Certainly while on pavements anyway. The lunatic who rides his maroon one down the pavement on Preston Road at 15mph came rather too close to hitting my partner one evening for my tastes. Unfortunately its another case of the uptake of technology outrunning available legislation
You are mistaken when you say its an obsession of mine to hound cyclists off pavements. I'm a cyclist myself who really doesn't have any trouble whatsoever observing the highway code so its understandable why I'm confused when others seem incapable (or too small minded) to do so themselves. Perhaps it will take somebody "clotheslining" them as they go past before they'll get the idea!
Don't worry, I'm sure I'll find something else to occupy my time like getting on my bike and getting muddy in Friston this weekend!

All I can say then is I would suggest you don't go to the continent then as most people cycle no the pavement there!, as for your comment that " the overwhelming majority of people no matter what their mode of transport be it two or four wheels are pretty much in agreement that riding a bike on a pavement is not a very clever thing to do ", I would like to know how you came to that conclusion, as most of the studies done indicate the contrary or at the very least 50-50 split, and also where I live the potholes in the roads are so bad it is nearly imposable to cycle anywhere without mashing my wheels and I point blank refuse to pay £150 per wheel every time I want to use the road!, the pavement is so much better!!!!.

Big Nasty wrote:

toldsloth wrote:

Big Nasty wrote:

toldsloth wrote:

Big Nasty wrote:

toldsloth wrote: The council have spent millions on cycle lanes in this town, in fact the council wants it to be a "centre of cycling excellence" yet we are still faced with inconsiderate morons riding bikes on pavements. Take a walk up Preston Road from the Viaduct. I guarantee that you will be faced with at least one if not more cyclists riding down the pavement towards you. This is despite the fact there is a cycle lane in both directions and the road runs parallel to The Ride in Preston Park which is a perfect place to amble along on a bike. If cyclists STILL think its ok to ride down a pavement when you have this level of SPECIFIC provision it just goes to demonstrate how inconsiderate they really are. Now as a cyclist myself I do think that some of the cycle lanes must have been drawn up by a complete and utter lunatic - witness the seafront lane, about which some idiot on here was jumping up and down about pedestrians daring to walk in is simply unsafe in many areas. That said if there is a cycle lane provided for crying out loud use it!! As for "I'm too scared to ride my bike on the road" - how pathetic - please for everybodys sake refrain from riding altogether. It is obvious you are a danger to yourself and others and simply deciding to utilise a pavement "slowly and considerately" is not on. You are invading the space allocated for pedestrians. As a car driver I am not allowed to drive on the pavement because I feel to scared to use the road! Pavements are a "safe space" and can have children and elderly people using them and if you hit one you will cause serious damage possibly even death. Think about it and get some proper training. Look, lots of nonsense has been spouted on here. The reality is that car drivers need to use their eyes and watch out for cyclists - give them room when overtaking and remember if you knock one off there is a very high chance of causing serious injury. Use your left hand mirror when turning left - its called "the life saver" and it may stop you squashing some moron on a bike who's inside of you. Cyclists - ride defensivly and with due regard for the highway code. Make sure you are visible, stop at traffic lights, don't ride on pavements and don't ride the wrong way down one-way streets. Also please don't ride up the inside of vehicles as most drivers don't check their mirror when turning left. Pedestrians - learn to be more aware of your surroundings and the fact that there are idiots out there who are intent on ignoring the fact that the piece of land you are using to walk on is called a pavement and is for your sole use! By the way - Big Nasty - stop using legislation to hde behind. Your views are indicative of why we have such an issue and are not helpful.

I am only pointing out the LAW, and if the law says I can ride on the pavement in certain circumstances and if I feel the necessity I will (within the law) do so and if you don't like that, then tough luck!!, my views are not why we have a problem!, it is inconsiderate numpty's that cause the issue not sensible cyclist's that sometimes feel the need to use the pavement in a considerate fashion!, Oh and the reason I don't use some cycle lanes is they are full of imbeciles that think the cycle lanes make a good car park, also some of them are down right dangerous!.

It's not that I don't like it, IT'S DOWNRIGHT DANGEROUS! There is NO such thing as "using a pavement in a considerate fashion" - if you hit a pedestrian even "considerately" you will hurt them! If you hit a child its going to be even worse. Can you imagine knocking an elderly person over - they can break bones veru easily. If you end up breaking some poor old dears hip you will possibly have sentended her to death and it doesn't matter how "considerately" you used the pavement. It really infuriates me how some people take the view "I'm entitled to do this so I will" or "I'm different to those other idiots because I'm doing this in a considerate fashion". The bottom line is riding a bike on a pavement is dangerous and shouldn't be done under any circumstances. If you cannot negotiate a road then you get off and walk and tough if you don't want to damage your SPD's.

O.K. let's try to get this through your tiny little brain!, how many cyclists get killed on the roads every year?, hundreds, and how many pedestrians get killed by cyclists on the pavements every year, none!, (O.K. a couple years back 1) so by your own way of thinking ALL cyclists should ride on the pavement as it's safer for everyone!, Oh yes and what is your opinion on the old peoples electric disability buggies as these themselves weigh about 90kg with all those heavy batteries + the weight of the people (usually fat) and a speed of upto 17mph, they will do much more damage than a bicycle, and as a matter of fact there is a lot of accidents involving this type of buggy, so maybe you should direct your obsession toward these instead!.

OK thats just a little bit personal and unnecessary to be honest and statistically untrue; 5 O'Levels, 1 C&G , 1 BA.Hons thanks although this was back when they actually meant something and were hard to pass! Oh I forgot I've got a few professional qualifications associated with my work as well but that would be big headed! :-) I actually don't think its worth arguing with you anymore because its painfully apparent that you are one of those types who do 70mph in the outside lane of the motorway and refuse to pull over "because you are doing the speed limit". I suppose even when faced with somebody telling you not to put your hand in the fire, you'd do it anyway (a) because you can, (b) because you read somewhere that its ok to do so and (c) because it will annoy the hell out of other people anyway! The long and the short of it is that the overwhelming majority of people no matter what their mode of transport be it two or four wheels are pretty much in agreement that riding a bike on a pavement is not a very clever thing to do and in fact contributes to the general animosity people have towards cyclists. If you can't understand and accept that fact then fine, hopefully I'll not be the one you hit. As for disabled / old age buggy's - they are a complete menace and the sooner the goverment introduces legislation to restrict them to walking pace the better. Certainly while on pavements anyway. The lunatic who rides his maroon one down the pavement on Preston Road at 15mph came rather too close to hitting my partner one evening for my tastes. Unfortunately its another case of the uptake of technology outrunning available legislation You are mistaken when you say its an obsession of mine to hound cyclists off pavements. I'm a cyclist myself who really doesn't have any trouble whatsoever observing the highway code so its understandable why I'm confused when others seem incapable (or too small minded) to do so themselves. Perhaps it will take somebody "clotheslining" them as they go past before they'll get the idea! Don't worry, I'm sure I'll find something else to occupy my time like getting on my bike and getting muddy in Friston this weekend!

All I can say then is I would suggest you don't go to the continent then as most people cycle no the pavement there!, as for your comment that " the overwhelming majority of people no matter what their mode of transport be it two or four wheels are pretty much in agreement that riding a bike on a pavement is not a very clever thing to do ", I would like to know how you came to that conclusion, as most of the studies done indicate the contrary or at the very least 50-50 split, and also where I live the potholes in the roads are so bad it is nearly imposable to cycle anywhere without mashing my wheels and I point blank refuse to pay £150 per wheel every time I want to use the road!, the pavement is so much better!!!!.

Where do I get my information from? - friends, collegues and the other comments on this forum from sensible cyclists.
We are not talking about the continent and its not even relevant as their traffic laws as very different to ours so lets stick to the UK please.
I've driven over 2500 miles in the past month and spent a considerable amount of time doding potholes so I'll agree that the roads are not in the best condition however I don't have the choise of driving my car down the pavement because they are so much better! What planet are you on for crying out loud! Oh whats the point in arguing, people like you will never change your opinions.......until perhaps somebody sticks something in your £150 front wheel as you zoom past them on the pavement!
I did over 25miles on two wheels today and I didn't have the slightest bit of trouble with potholes - the pedestrians stepping off the kerb without looking were far more of a menace!
Get a grip Big Nasty - the world is changing. Cycling is becoming more popular and there really isn't any room for morons ruining it for the rest of us.

It's not a case of them and us, it's a case of attitude by all.
I've just witnessed, from my kitchen window, a motorcyclists coming off his machine.
Up to a dozen cars, and several pedestrians, passed on by, driving around him.
Granted he appeared to be ok but the simple attitude of ignoring him speaks volumes.
In other countries it would be a criminal offence not to stop and assist.
It is useless for cyclists to have attitude about car drivers, or vice versa, what is needed is a general change of attitude whereby the vulnerable are taken care of.
The UK has the 2nd highest child casualty rate on EU roads. That simple statistic has got to speak volumes.

toldsloth wrote:

Big Nasty wrote:

toldsloth wrote:

Big Nasty wrote:

toldsloth wrote:

Big Nasty wrote:

toldsloth wrote: The council have spent millions on cycle lanes in this town, in fact the council wants it to be a "centre of cycling excellence" yet we are still faced with inconsiderate morons riding bikes on pavements. Take a walk up Preston Road from the Viaduct. I guarantee that you will be faced with at least one if not more cyclists riding down the pavement towards you. This is despite the fact there is a cycle lane in both directions and the road runs parallel to The Ride in Preston Park which is a perfect place to amble along on a bike. If cyclists STILL think its ok to ride down a pavement when you have this level of SPECIFIC provision it just goes to demonstrate how inconsiderate they really are. Now as a cyclist myself I do think that some of the cycle lanes must have been drawn up by a complete and utter lunatic - witness the seafront lane, about which some idiot on here was jumping up and down about pedestrians daring to walk in is simply unsafe in many areas. That said if there is a cycle lane provided for crying out loud use it!! As for "I'm too scared to ride my bike on the road" - how pathetic - please for everybodys sake refrain from riding altogether. It is obvious you are a danger to yourself and others and simply deciding to utilise a pavement "slowly and considerately" is not on. You are invading the space allocated for pedestrians. As a car driver I am not allowed to drive on the pavement because I feel to scared to use the road! Pavements are a "safe space" and can have children and elderly people using them and if you hit one you will cause serious damage possibly even death. Think about it and get some proper training. Look, lots of nonsense has been spouted on here. The reality is that car drivers need to use their eyes and watch out for cyclists - give them room when overtaking and remember if you knock one off there is a very high chance of causing serious injury. Use your left hand mirror when turning left - its called "the life saver" and it may stop you squashing some moron on a bike who's inside of you. Cyclists - ride defensivly and with due regard for the highway code. Make sure you are visible, stop at traffic lights, don't ride on pavements and don't ride the wrong way down one-way streets. Also please don't ride up the inside of vehicles as most drivers don't check their mirror when turning left. Pedestrians - learn to be more aware of your surroundings and the fact that there are idiots out there who are intent on ignoring the fact that the piece of land you are using to walk on is called a pavement and is for your sole use! By the way - Big Nasty - stop using legislation to hde behind. Your views are indicative of why we have such an issue and are not helpful.

I am only pointing out the LAW, and if the law says I can ride on the pavement in certain circumstances and if I feel the necessity I will (within the law) do so and if you don't like that, then tough luck!!, my views are not why we have a problem!, it is inconsiderate numpty's that cause the issue not sensible cyclist's that sometimes feel the need to use the pavement in a considerate fashion!, Oh and the reason I don't use some cycle lanes is they are full of imbeciles that think the cycle lanes make a good car park, also some of them are down right dangerous!.

It's not that I don't like it, IT'S DOWNRIGHT DANGEROUS! There is NO such thing as "using a pavement in a considerate fashion" - if you hit a pedestrian even "considerately" you will hurt them! If you hit a child its going to be even worse. Can you imagine knocking an elderly person over - they can break bones veru easily. If you end up breaking some poor old dears hip you will possibly have sentended her to death and it doesn't matter how "considerately" you used the pavement. It really infuriates me how some people take the view "I'm entitled to do this so I will" or "I'm different to those other idiots because I'm doing this in a considerate fashion". The bottom line is riding a bike on a pavement is dangerous and shouldn't be done under any circumstances. If you cannot negotiate a road then you get off and walk and tough if you don't want to damage your SPD's.

O.K. let's try to get this through your tiny little brain!, how many cyclists get killed on the roads every year?, hundreds, and how many pedestrians get killed by cyclists on the pavements every year, none!, (O.K. a couple years back 1) so by your own way of thinking ALL cyclists should ride on the pavement as it's safer for everyone!, Oh yes and what is your opinion on the old peoples electric disability buggies as these themselves weigh about 90kg with all those heavy batteries + the weight of the people (usually fat) and a speed of upto 17mph, they will do much more damage than a bicycle, and as a matter of fact there is a lot of accidents involving this type of buggy, so maybe you should direct your obsession toward these instead!.

OK thats just a little bit personal and unnecessary to be honest and statistically untrue; 5 O'Levels, 1 C&G , 1 BA.Hons thanks although this was back when they actually meant something and were hard to pass! Oh I forgot I've got a few professional qualifications associated with my work as well but that would be big headed! :-) I actually don't think its worth arguing with you anymore because its painfully apparent that you are one of those types who do 70mph in the outside lane of the motorway and refuse to pull over "because you are doing the speed limit". I suppose even when faced with somebody telling you not to put your hand in the fire, you'd do it anyway (a) because you can, (b) because you read somewhere that its ok to do so and (c) because it will annoy the hell out of other people anyway! The long and the short of it is that the overwhelming majority of people no matter what their mode of transport be it two or four wheels are pretty much in agreement that riding a bike on a pavement is not a very clever thing to do and in fact contributes to the general animosity people have towards cyclists. If you can't understand and accept that fact then fine, hopefully I'll not be the one you hit. As for disabled / old age buggy's - they are a complete menace and the sooner the goverment introduces legislation to restrict them to walking pace the better. Certainly while on pavements anyway. The lunatic who rides his maroon one down the pavement on Preston Road at 15mph came rather too close to hitting my partner one evening for my tastes. Unfortunately its another case of the uptake of technology outrunning available legislation You are mistaken when you say its an obsession of mine to hound cyclists off pavements. I'm a cyclist myself who really doesn't have any trouble whatsoever observing the highway code so its understandable why I'm confused when others seem incapable (or too small minded) to do so themselves. Perhaps it will take somebody "clotheslining" them as they go past before they'll get the idea! Don't worry, I'm sure I'll find something else to occupy my time like getting on my bike and getting muddy in Friston this weekend!

All I can say then is I would suggest you don't go to the continent then as most people cycle no the pavement there!, as for your comment that " the overwhelming majority of people no matter what their mode of transport be it two or four wheels are pretty much in agreement that riding a bike on a pavement is not a very clever thing to do ", I would like to know how you came to that conclusion, as most of the studies done indicate the contrary or at the very least 50-50 split, and also where I live the potholes in the roads are so bad it is nearly imposable to cycle anywhere without mashing my wheels and I point blank refuse to pay £150 per wheel every time I want to use the road!, the pavement is so much better!!!!.

Where do I get my information from? - friends, collegues and the other comments on this forum from sensible cyclists.
We are not talking about the continent and its not even relevant as their traffic laws as very different to ours so lets stick to the UK please.
I've driven over 2500 miles in the past month and spent a considerable amount of time doding potholes so I'll agree that the roads are not in the best condition however I don't have the choise of driving my car down the pavement because they are so much better! What planet are you on for crying out loud! Oh whats the point in arguing, people like you will never change your opinions.......until perhaps somebody sticks something in your £150 front wheel as you zoom past them on the pavement!
I did over 25miles on two wheels today and I didn't have the slightest bit of trouble with potholes - the pedestrians stepping off the kerb without looking were far more of a menace!
Get a grip Big Nasty - the world is changing. Cycling is becoming more popular and there really isn't any room for morons ruining it for the rest of us.

Lets get this straight I do NOT whiz along the pavement I sometimes ride at WALKING pace If I have to along a short stretch of the pavement, and if anyone was even to attempt to stick something through my wheel, the next thing they would know is my rather large fist thundering into the side of their head!, I only cycle strictly within the law and if people don't like that, again I repeat TOUGH LUCK!, you are probably one of those people that would also complain about a cyclist riding at 14mph in the middle of the road like we are entitled to by law!, by the way do agree with you about numpty pedestrians stepping off the pavement without even a quick glance to the right!.

Granny wrote:
When cyclists abide by the Highway code and start to respect traffic signals, pedestrians etc, then by all means let them call for changes to the law Until then, hard luck.

I feel sure that when all motor vehicle drivers obey the highway code, then all cyclists will follow suit. Once drivers stop speeding, jumping red-lights, parking illegally, give cyclists adequate space and generally stop killing and injuring huge amounts of people, cyclists and pedestrians will stop their annoying but rarely dangerous behavior.