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Protest at Brighton Centre as doctors vote to ban homeopathy on NHS

DEMO: Protesters outside the Brighton Centre this afternoon DEMO: Protesters outside the Brighton Centre this afternoon

Scores of pro-homeopathy supporters demonstrated outside the Brighton Centre today ahead of doctors voting on whether homeopathic remedies should be banned on the NHS.

Medics at the British Medical Association (BMA) conference voted three to one in favour of banning NHS funding for homeopathic remedies and removing support for the UK's four homeopathic hospitals.

They said NHS doctors should not be trained in homeopathy and remedies should be taken off shelves "labelled medicines" and put on shelves "labelled placebos".

One doctor described homeopathy as "nonsense on stilts" while another said patients would be better off buying bottled water.

But some doctors said their patients seemed to benefit despite no clinical trial evidence that homeopathy worked.

Proposing the motion, Dr Mary McCarthy, a GP from Shropshire, said homeopathic doctors claimed it made people feel better.

"Lots of things make you feel better - a sunny day, the smell of the sea, a hug, retail therapy," she said.

"It can do harm by diverting patients from conventional medical treatments."

She said the issue was about NHS funding and promotion and would not prevent homeopaths from practising.

Dr Tom Dolphin, a member of the BMA's junior doctors committee, also backed the motion.

He said he had previously described homeopathy as witchcraft, but now wanted to apologise to witches for making that link.

"Homeopathy is not witchcraft, it is nonsense on stilts.

"It is pernicious nonsense that feeds into a rising wave of irrationality which threatens to overwhelm the hard-won gains of the Enlightenment and the scientific method.

"We risk, as a society, slipping back into a state of magical thinking when made-up science passes for rational discourse and wishing for something to be true passes for proof.

"Let's stop wasting scarce NHS money on something with plenty of evidence to show it does not work.

"Strike a blow for science and protect our patients from this insidious practice."

Dr John Garner, a GP from Edinburgh, spoke against the motion, saying it would prevent those patients who benefited from homeopathy from having access to their treatments.

"There's a big push that we practise evidence-based medicine, however, patients don't always have evidence-based symptomology."

He said he had seen patients with a range of complaints but investigations had found no cause.

"Some of these patients, for whatever reason, find benefit and relief in homeopathic treatments, because of a placebo effect or not."

Homeopathy, which is a 200-year-old system, has been funded on the NHS since its inception in 1948.

It differs from herbal medicine in that it relies on substances being diluted many times, something the committee said could not be scientifically proven to work.

In February, MPs said homeopathic remedies should no longer be funded on the NHS.

They said there was no evidence the drugs were any more effective than placebo - the same as taking a sugar or dummy pill and believing it works.

Furthermore, they said the Medicines and Healthcare products Regulatory Agency (MHRA) should not allow homeopathic medicines to carry medical claims on their labels.

Just four MPs out of seven "active" members of the committee voted on the report, with former Labour MP Ian Stewart dissenting from its verdict.

He said the committee had refused to take into account that homeopathy worked for some people.

There are four homeopathic hospitals in the UK in London, Bristol, Liverpool and Glasgow.

Estimates on how much the NHS spends on homeopathy vary, with the Society of Homeopaths putting the figure at £4 million a year including the cost of running hospitals.

One survey of more than 6,500 patients treated at Bristol Homeopathic Hospital found 70% reported improved health.

London-based GP Paddy Glackin spoke against the motion.

He said the BMA was in danger of "scientific fundamentalism" and GPs were guilty of prescribing "all sorts of things on a Friday afternoon to patients".

He added: "Just because we cannot show something works, doesn't mean it's not useful."

Today's vote means the wording of the motion now becomes BMA policy.

A statement from The Society of Homeopaths said: "There are approximately 600 doctors in the UK who use homeopathy, over 55,000 patients a year are seen through homeopathic hospitals, many with conditions not helped through other specialists in the NHS.

"The cost of homeopathy on the NHS is low - just 0.001% of the £11 billion drugs budget.

"Homeopathic appointment and hospital costs are approximately £4 million per annum, compared with the cost of anti-depressants alone, which was £291.5 million in 2007."

It said a study commissioned by the Prince of Wales - a known supporter of homeopathy - in 2005 found that when patients were treated with complementary and alternative medicines, there was a 30% drop in the number of GP appointments and 50% cost savings on prescriptions.

It said members of the Faculty of Homeopathy, who are also members of the BMA, had been refused permission to address the conference.

A spokesman for the Department of Health said: "The Department is considering issues to do with homeopathic remedies and hospitals as part of the Government's response to the Science and Technology Committee's report on homeopathy.

"The response will be issued soon."

Comments(29)

ade1200 says...
5:12pm Tue 29 Jun 10

If they provide homeopathic remedies on the NHS then why not provide witchdoctors or any other daft, magical nonsense. It's worrying and shows how uneducated us Brits must still be if we think sugar pills can cure illness.

puddingandpi says...
5:42pm Tue 29 Jun 10

I don't see why they don't have "sacrificing black cockerels" on the NHS if they homeopathy.

Works just as well.

sarah h says...
6:34pm Tue 29 Jun 10

Yes Dr G
Scientific fundamentalism at its worse.
Discrimination at its worse
Stupidity at its worse
A very low quality of debate
Money money money...must be funny...............
.£££££££

Mrs Reasonable says...
6:34pm Tue 29 Jun 10

"Scores of pro-homeopathy supporters demonstrated about the Brighton Centre today ahead of doctors voting on whether homeopathic remedies should be banned on the NHS."

Why are they demonstrating about the Brighton Centre? I know it's a shockingly ugly piece of architecture but surely it has nothing to do with homeopathy?!

Incidentally, the security words (with no word of a lie) are 'burn-wife'. Who was it who mentioned witchcraft?

zeno says...
6:37pm Tue 29 Jun 10

If people want to waste their own money on these sugar pills then that's up to them (although I do wonder if they really are making an informed choice), but this pseudo scientific woo nonsense should not be funded by the taxpayer.

We now need the Royal Pharmaceutical Society of Great Britain to clearly state that it is unethical for their members to sell these sugar pills.

Angryoldman says...
6:45pm Tue 29 Jun 10

Its amazing how powerful the placebo effect can be. Still money for old rope.
Better off going to Lourds.

The Brighton Bear says...
7:00pm Tue 29 Jun 10

Could be better of going to Lords.

Mel Hove says...
7:04pm Tue 29 Jun 10

Or Lourdes

Fight Back says...
8:06pm Tue 29 Jun 10

NHS GPs will tell you there is no cure for a skin complaint known as Swimming Pool Disease. It's not painful but quite unsightly. Strangely homeopathic medicines can cure it.

The NHS doctors just don't want to affect their payments from the drugs companies.

RickH says...
8:11pm Tue 29 Jun 10

Fight Back wrote:
NHS GPs will tell you there is no cure for a skin complaint known as Swimming Pool Disease. It's not painful but quite unsightly. Strangely homeopathic medicines can cure it. The NHS doctors just don't want to affect their payments from the drugs companies.
So homeopathy can cure a skin condition but have no scientific foundation for that 'fact' - like to expand a little on your claim?

yorkie44 says...
8:26pm Tue 29 Jun 10

If these idiots want to waste their own money on these treatments it is OK, but not the taxpayers' money.

cheezburger says...
8:35pm Tue 29 Jun 10

Homeopothy is nonsense. It is high time it is clearly labelled as such. It has no benefits whatsoever. You have as much chance of it curing anything as being kicked to death by a duck. This is a victory for common sense.

cheezburger says...
8:37pm Tue 29 Jun 10

I would love to run a bar for a conference of homeopaths. Here is your vodka sir. Err excuse me this isn't vodka, it's just water. Yes sir, its homeopathic vodka, diluted you see. £5 please.

sarah h says...
9:33pm Tue 29 Jun 10

RickH wrote:
Fight Back wrote: NHS GPs will tell you there is no cure for a skin complaint known as Swimming Pool Disease. It's not painful but quite unsightly. Strangely homeopathic medicines can cure it. The NHS doctors just don't want to affect their payments from the drugs companies.
So homeopathy can cure a skin condition but have no scientific foundation for that 'fact' - like to expand a little on your claim?
There is no scientific foundation for a lot of things that happen in life
There are many treatments that go wrong that do have a 'scientific foundation'
Have a read of the BMJ statistics & educate yourself
No need to fight back...just sit back The public are not stupid..and by the way I could expand on a lot of successful skin cases...human & animal and I'm not alone. Sorry about that! Do a bit of research and you'll find out..but thats what 'scientists' are supposed to do isn't it?
There is a range of ability in the homeopathic world just as in orthodox medicine. It is important to check qualifications and training

RickH says...
10:06pm Tue 29 Jun 10

sarah h wrote:
RickH wrote:
Fight Back wrote: NHS GPs will tell you there is no cure for a skin complaint known as Swimming Pool Disease. It's not painful but quite unsightly. Strangely homeopathic medicines can cure it. The NHS doctors just don't want to affect their payments from the drugs companies.
So homeopathy can cure a skin condition but have no scientific foundation for that 'fact' - like to expand a little on your claim?
There is no scientific foundation for a lot of things that happen in life There are many treatments that go wrong that do have a 'scientific foundation' Have a read of the BMJ statistics & educate yourself No need to fight back...just sit back The public are not stupid..and by the way I could expand on a lot of successful skin cases...human & animal and I'm not alone. Sorry about that! Do a bit of research and you'll find out..but thats what 'scientists' are supposed to do isn't it? There is a range of ability in the homeopathic world just as in orthodox medicine. It is important to check qualifications and training
A homeopathic supporter; as usual, light on facts, heavy on the rheotoric. And as for the research - been there, done it, read the journals. Its a sham to seel this product and the sooner its off the NHS the better - go peddle your snake oil for those without sufficent nouce to check the facts!

Betty Blue says...
10:46pm Tue 29 Jun 10

Homeopathic remedies are all in the mind, they make a lot people very rich, with very little research to prove they do any good. Take two paracetamol, they are cheaper and you feel better in minutes.

Peter the Great says...
8:17am Wed 30 Jun 10

An excellent decision by the BMA, even though it's an obvious no-brainer in these financially straitened times.

Nyberg says...
8:31am Wed 30 Jun 10

cheezburger wrote:
I would love to run a bar for a conference of homeopaths. Here is your vodka sir. Err excuse me this isn't vodka, it's just water. Yes sir, its homeopathic vodka, diluted you see. £5 please.
That made me laugh, cheezburger.
Of course homeopathy shouldn't be funded by the NHS. I didn't know it was!
NHS money should only be available for drugs with a proven benefit. Not sugar pills. If you want them, buy them yourself.
Oh, they're expensive? Too bad. You have a choice.

Angryoldman says...
9:35am Wed 30 Jun 10

My old granny used to swear that a bit of powdered rhino horn with grounded dried tiger penis worked miricles on her bunions.
I wonder if we can get it on the NHS with the homeopathic medicines?

Baldseagull says...
10:01am Wed 30 Jun 10

cheezburger wrote:
I would love to run a bar for a conference of homeopaths. Here is your vodka sir. Err excuse me this isn't vodka, it's just water. Yes sir, its homeopathic vodka, diluted you see. £5 please.
I like this idea.

Baldseagull says...
10:20am Wed 30 Jun 10

cheezburger wrote:
I would love to run a bar for a conference of homeopaths. Here is your vodka sir. Err excuse me this isn't vodka, it's just water. Yes sir, its homeopathic vodka, diluted you see. £5 please.
Homeopathic treatments are not just heavily diluted though, this would suggest that there is some tiny amount of something that may do some good. No, more usually the treatment is effectively distilled water, only that the water originated in a plant of one kind or another.
The premise is that water has a 'memory', and that substances that can produce the symptons of your disease will cure it if given in 'dilute' form.
Big trials only ever show benefits in line with placebo's.
Placebo's have their place but I would not be happy for the NHS to fund Hospitals treating only with placebo's.
Meanwhile others are fighting for cancer drugs with proven potential to be available on the NHS.
It appears that we have been funding Placebo medicine because it is cheap and not funding active medicine if it is expensive.

ghonda says...
11:50am Wed 30 Jun 10

Fight Back wrote:
NHS GPs will tell you there is no cure for a skin complaint known as Swimming Pool Disease. It's not painful but quite unsightly. Strangely homeopathic medicines can cure it.

The NHS doctors just don't want to affect their payments from the drugs companies.
What payments do Doctors receive from drug companies?

And what "large trials" have their been for homeopathic remedies? Large clinical trials would require over 5000 people world wide and I know of no large clinical trials comparing homeopathic remedies against a placebo.

And even then you would need to target a single remedy (ie horse radish diluted a million times) against a placebo to treat a single condition. Then and only then could we make a scientific judgement on the use of homeopathic treatment.

We must only pay for evidence based results or we'll end up paying for more nonsense in a time when we need to save money.

Grow up people. Homeopathy can not be NHS funded. If you want it, then go to the shops and pay for it yourself. IT WILL NOT WORK.

Tony Davenport says...
12:13pm Wed 30 Jun 10

Judging by the idiotic support for homeopathy by some in the city I am rather concerned that Mrs. Reasonable received "burn-wife" as a security word. "The voice in the Argus website told me to do it" will be the defence after a rash of matrimonial infernos.

But I am being cruel - many people who support homeopathy aren't inherently stupid, they just do so from a position of not thinking critically about it. The body is a fantastically complex machine, and has a great propensity for healing itself.

Trouble is human beings always look for patterns. It's hard wired into us. Whatever we happen to be doing at the time will get the credit for healing us, when in the fact it was our body just fixing itself. If you decide to start taking cold showers, we'll swear it cured our bout of hay-fever. If we stand on our heads for 10 minutes a day, we'll say it cured migraines. If we happen to be taking homeopathic "medicine" (aka small drops of water or plain sugar pills), we'll jump on the "faith" bandwagon.

Leaving aside the fact that homeopathy cannot work according to science, it fails every test thrown at it. It just doesn't do what it claims. It relies solely on "anecdotal evidence" - people saying it works for them. Saying something or believing something does not make it true.

Some say that the funding percentage of alternative medicines on the NHS is very small, so what does it matter? Well if that small percentage could be used instead save one life though funding proper cancer treatment for someone then it is clearly worth it.

Added to this having these alternative medicines gives them a respectability and kudos they do not deserve. How many people in the right mind would seek out an African witchdoctor, bejewelled in lion skin and animal bones, to cure their ailment? No one. But if African witchdoctors were available on the NHS I daresay many would seek their counsel. If fact the number one argument homeopathy proponents give to me in its defence is "Well, they have it on the NHS and private health insurance companies provide it, so it must work". No … they provide it because it is cheap compared with proper medicine. If you are misguided enough to demand an alternative course of treatment when you are diagnosed with cancer, then the NHS or BUPA rubs its hand together. They provide a very cheap alternative whilst fulfilling their obligation to provide treatment.

Of course every now and again we have someone pop up in the national press (mostly in the Daily Mail, whose scientific correspondents might as well don lion skins and dance round with animal bones) claiming that doctors had given them 3 months to live, but after going on a course of alternative treatment here they are, 2 years later! That may be so, but it is no proof that it was their treatment that cured them. Here's where another great example of a lack of critical thinking comes into play: many people would be wowed by such a story, but what they don't ask is how many people DIDN'T this treatment work for? Those people don't seem to be saying anything … ah … that would be because they are dead. That is one of the great dangers of having such things on the NHS - people think - understandably - that they are getting real cures and therefore avoid getting proper and proven treatments.

Tony Davenport

Tony Davenport says...
12:14pm Wed 30 Jun 10

cheezburger wrote:
I would love to run a bar for a conference of homeopaths. Here is your vodka sir. Err excuse me this isn't vodka, it's just water. Yes sir, its homeopathic vodka, diluted you see. £5 please.
What's the dilution? 30C?! Blimey, you'll be legless after a few sips of that?

Tony Davenport

Tony Davenport says...
12:21pm Wed 30 Jun 10

Here's something to amuse you cheezburger …

http://www.youtube.c
om/watch?v=HMGIbOGu8
q0

Tony Davenport

Granny says...
2:31pm Wed 30 Jun 10

If people want homeopathy treatment let them pay for it. Until there is 100% scientific proof that it works why should the taxpayers fund it?

decideformyself says...
3:03pm Thu 1 Jul 10

Homeopathy is quite the opposite of a waste of money in recession - it is a sustainable , much cheaper better method of medicine!

Excerpt form Independent newspaper article:
Cristal Sumner, the BHA's chief executive, said: "While we are in the grip of new financial austerity measures, the BMA is launching an attack on a field of treatment that helps thousands of people in a cost-effective way. Patients have been able to access homoeopathy on the NHS since its inception. It is an important treatment choice for both patients and doctors."

The patient: 'It saved my life. Isn't that worth something?'

Helen Llewelyn, 31, from Haringey, north London, suffered from chronic physical pain and depression as a result of endometriosis which conventional medicine, including surgery, failed to help. She was referred to the Royal London Homoeopathic hospital in 2007.

"My homoeopathic treatment includes two medicines for physical pain and one for my mental state. I saw a homoeopathist three times and it worked. I come from a very scientific background; I'm certainly not someone drawn naturally to homoeopathy. I didn't think the medicines would work but they did. I thought anti-depressants would work but they didn't. So I don't put a lot of merit on the placebo argument. To say that funding for homoeopathy on the NHS is a waste is extremely short-sighted. It will save thousands on useless medicines. More importantly, it saved my life. Isn't that worth something? I would still be clinically depressed otherwise. It made me much more productive in society."

if its just a placebo, my baby would have been fixed by the first remedy I gave him for his screaming colic which had been going on for an hour. It did nothing, the 2nd remedy I gave him stopped his pain instantly - relief all round. You go on knocking it if you like but boy are you missing out on some amazing medicine. Its just a shame if you try and stop other people doing so too

Mungo P says...
11:04am Fri 2 Jul 10

In a discussion about homeopathy very similar to this one, someone cited a paper that PROVED that homeopathy worked. It was a case of using Arnica to help reduce swelling and speed up the healing process after cosmetic surgery. It stated that the homeopathic treatment worked better than the placebo and that the results were statistically significant. It turned out to be a trial of 19 patients so how it was statistically significant baffles me. You can find a "scientist" to say anything. See here for a good example of a "Dr" explaining in scientific terms how homeopathy works: http://www.youtube.c
om/watch?v=C0c5yClip
4o My favourite bit is when she multiplies by zero. Also, to Mr Cheezburger, I study at York University where there are an abundance of ducks and where being kicked to death by a duck is far more likely than being cured by homeopathy. Get your facts right! :P

KarenT says...
12:53am Tue 6 Jul 10

What a joke - the state of the nation being what it is, we'll be lucky to even have the NHS in ten years time. The cuts we are about to face are going to be extreme, and anyone who's fretting over losing homeopathic medicine on the NHS have no idea how bad it's really going to get! This is a country that expects more for nothing and takes the least amount of responsibility for their own health and wellbeing than anywhere else in the world! Gastric bands for people who find it impossible to walk past a McDonalds without snarfing down around a week's worth of calories in one sitting, IVF for people who want to have children to simply fulfill some personal desire to procreate (even though they already have at least one child already), casualty departments that spend about 80% of their time mopping up after abusive drunks and junkies puking their guts out on a Friday and Saturday night, and maternity wards overflowing with teenage girls desperate to pop out sprogs to get them child benefits and council homes... the list goes on. Anyone who doesn't have private medical insurance is in for a big shock in the coming years. You can forget about homeopathic remedies! ;-)

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