Objections to broadband boxes in Brighton and Hove conservation areas

3:28pm Friday 2nd July 2010 in News

Conservation groups have objected to the installation of large cabinets designed to bring super-fast broadband to Brighton and Hove.

BT's Openreach has made dozens of planning applications to set up the cabinets at various locations across the city.

High-speed broadband is seen as essential for the future economic health of the city and its ability to continue to attract innovative digital-based companies.

Some of the cabinets have already been approved by the council.

But five conservation societies have now joined together to campaign against the installation of the cabinets.

Although they insist they are not against the cabinets outright, the groups have called for BT to consult with them before they are installed.

The cabinets are larger than existing telephone exchanges and in many cases will be an addition rather than replacement.

The letter is signed by Stephen Neiman, of The Regency Society, Mick Hamer, of the Montpelier and Clifton Hill Society, Paul Phillips, of the Kemp Town Society, Selma Montford, of the Brighton Society, David Hainsworth, of the Kingscliffe Society and Roger Hinton, of the Regency Square Area Society.

It reads: “We are worried both about the lack of more general consultation and the impact that these monster cabinets could have, both within and outside conservation areas, if they are simply installed wherever Openreach finds most convenient.”

Mr Neiman said he did not want to give the impression the conservation groups are against the technology.

He said: “There is no doubt we have to move with the times and that we need super-fast broadband, especially in a vibrant city like Brighton.

“Having said that, I'm not convinced the solution put forward by BT is the right and proper one. We are not saying no – we just want to be consulted.”

Phil Jones, chief executive of Wired Sussex, the support organisation for digital business, believes the infrastructure is vital.

He said: “Ensuring this city has access to super-fast broadband is important not just to sustain the growth of our digital sector but also because it can help all of us to engage more fully with each other, our communities and our schools, councils and hospitals.

“I haven't seen these boxes but I do recognise that taking Brighton into the 21st century also has to be about finding ways to preserve what is unique about the city now.”

Richard Vahrman's digital company Locomatrix, which organises realworld outdoor games and activities, is based at home in Brunswick Terrace.

Although he is sympathetic to the concerns of conservationists, he said: “Sometimes they do not have their priorities quite right.

“On the Terrace there are many ugly things so I don't think the cabinet would make much difference. But in Brunswick Square then I can see the need for the cabinet to be hidden by shrubs or something.”

A spokeswoman for BT described the new equipment as “essential” but added: “We do fully appreciate the concerns of the conservation and amenities committees regarding the siting of our super-fast broadband cabinets in certain parts of the city.

“We are committed to working with local authorities to minimise the visual impact of the new street cabinets, and have done this successfully in other conservation areas.”

See a full list of the sites being considered at theargus.co.uk ends

Sites yet to be approved:

  • BH2010/01596 Clifton Road Side of 7 Clifton Hill Brighton
  • BH2010/01591 York Avenue Side Of 1 Lansdowne Road Hove
  • BH2010/01670 Outside 21 Clarence Square Brighton
  • BH2010/01564 Church Street Side Of 120-124 Queens Road Brighton
  • BH2010/01569 Outside 5-7 Brunswick Place Hove
  • BH2010/01475 Outside Central United Reform Church 28 Ventnor Villas Hove
  • BH2010/01580 Outside 161 Church Road Hove
  • BH2010/01235 Outside 38 Western Road, Hove
  • BH2010/01474 Outside 5-7 Brunswick Place, Hove__
  • BH2010/01223 Adjacent to 41 Fourth Avenue, Hove__
  • BH2010/01231 Third Avenue side of 72 Church Road, Hove__
  • BH2010/01243 Adjacent to 161 Church Road, Hove__
  • BH2010/01449 Medina Villas side of 124 Church Road, Hove__
  • BH2010/01233 Opposite 18 Bedford Square, Brighton
  • BH2010/01443 Montpelier Terrace side of 89 Montpelier Road_ _
  • BH2010/01452 Clifton Road side of 7 Clifton Hill, Brighton__
  • BH2010/01238 Outside 20 Buckingham Road, Brighton__
  • BH2010/01445 Church Street side of 120 Queens Road, Brighton__
  • BH2010/01447 New Dorset Street side of 58 Upper Gloucester Road, Brighton
  • BH2010/01451 Outside Beau House 30 Bath Street, Brighton__
  • BH2010/01476 Guildford Road side of 1 Terminus Road, Brighton__
  • BH2010/01450 Aymer Road side of 14 - 18 New Church Road__
  • BH2010/01480 Pembroke Crescent side of 40 Sackville Road__
  • BH2010/01472 Outside 72 Upper North Street, Brighton
  • BH2010/01448 Outside 52 Dyke Road, Brighton__
  • BH2010/01552 Seafield Road side of 146 Church Road, Hove__
  • BH2010/01555 Vallance Road side of 170 Church Road, Hove
  • BH2010/01603 Outside Palmeira Grande Holland Road Hove
  • BH2010/01606 First Avenue outside St John The Baptist Church Hove
  • BH2010/01631 Outside 127 Lansdowne Place Hove
  • BH2010/01633 Palmeira Avenue side of 23A Palmeira Mansions Hove
  • BH2010/01632 Fourth Avenue side of 13-14 Kings Gardens Hove
  • BH2010/01635 Outside 27 Denmark Villas Hove
  • BH2010/01566 Walsingham Road side of 58 New Church Road Hove
  • BH2010/01648 Hove Street Side of 2 New Church Road Hove
  • BH2010/01659 Outside 56 Cambridge Road Hove
  • BH2010/01664 Church Road side of St John The Baptist Church Hove
  • BH2010/01489 Eaton Road Side of 50 The Drive Hove
  • BH2010/01655 Outside 64 Osborne Villas Hove
  • BH2010/01662 Outside 40B Sackville Road Hove
  • BH2010/01663 Outside 59 Norton Road Hove
  • BH2010/01665 Kingsway outside Flag Court Hove
  • BH2010/01700 Outside Central United Reform Church Ventnor Villas Hove
  • BH2010/01653 Outside Eaton Gate Eaton Gardens Hove
  • BH2010/01666 Outside 52-54 The Drive Hove
  • BH2010/01654 Outside 110C Western Road Brighton
  • BH2010/01656 Sillwod Street side of 25 Sillwood Road Brighton
  • BH2010/01657 Prince Albert Street side of 58 Ship Street Brighton
  • BH2010/01658 Outside 19 Montpelier Place Brighton
  • BH2010/01660 Outside Heather Court Montpelier Terrace Brighton
  • BH2010/01661 Outside 110 Upper North Street Brighton

Comments(20)

ToxicAvenger360 says...
4:33pm Fri 2 Jul 10

this is wat we need get over it anyway they paint them green and i always find them a welcome seat we are going to get left behind even more if we dnt let them do it so wats it to be slow speeds or green boxes

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monty sidewinder says...
4:48pm Fri 2 Jul 10

i agree, high speed broadband is an essential part of everyday life nowadays, they could just be painted a dark green and then given the ''cassette lord'' makeover which will only enhance them and help them blend in!

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yorkie44 says...
5:42pm Fri 2 Jul 10

Perhaps BT could disguise them as big black refuse bins!

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The Brighton Bear says...
6:09pm Fri 2 Jul 10

yorkie44 wrote:
Perhaps BT could disguise them as big black refuse bins!
Top class post!

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davyboy says...
6:14pm Fri 2 Jul 10

everyone wants fast broadband, as fast as possible, so these boxes are needed. it doesn't matter what it is, someone will always want to complain. we have had these small exchange boxes for years, only the newer ones need to be bigger for extra cooling. get a grip, get a life and grow up, all you moaners.

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Acheron says...
7:15pm Fri 2 Jul 10

Not sure people are being fair here! They aren't saying no to them, just speak to them about location first! I'm sure people here aren't advocating that big companies should be able to do what they want irrespective just because of a 'need'. Would we be feeling different about it if this was Tesco setting it up?

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Council Pound says...
9:18pm Fri 2 Jul 10

I think these boxes should be paid for by the argus rag, as it would speed up this **** site up.

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Stu says...
9:19am Sat 3 Jul 10

"We are not saying no – we just want to be consulted.” or in other words, "You can put them anywhere, as long as it's not outside MY front door". NIMBYS!!!

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tribaleye says...
11:08am Sat 3 Jul 10

Sure, we need to keep up with the broadband revolution, but I welcome the Conservation department's decision to refuse at least that box proposed for the top of Brunswick Square (app ref BH2010/01474; 5-7 Brunswick Place). BT's photo illustration of the box looks reason enough to deny permission, but the picture actually under-emphasises the true 1.6m height of the apparatus – too incongruous by far. How about replacing the existing box with a (preferably smaller) one and packing the new electronics in that.

http://wam.brighton-
hove.gov.uk/Planning
WAM/doc/Photo(s)-157
4515.pdf?extension=.
pdf&id=1574515&locat
ion=VOLUME3&contentT
ype=application/pdf&
pageCount=1

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Thumper Hove says...
12:42pm Sat 3 Jul 10

Stu wrote:
"We are not saying no – we just want to be consulted.” or in other words, "You can put them anywhere, as long as it's not outside MY front door". NIMBYS!!!
Very well said!

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Nyberg says...
3:13pm Sat 3 Jul 10

The same sort of people opposed the spinning jenny, the steam engine and the motor car.
It's a bloody box! We already have one outside our house, and if it will make my broadband any faster they can put another 10 of them there.
Grow up and get over it.

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chipmunk77 says...
4:33pm Sat 3 Jul 10

tribaleye wrote:
Sure, we need to keep up with the broadband revolution, but I welcome the Conservation department's decision to refuse at least that box proposed for the top of Brunswick Square (app ref BH2010/01474; 5-7 Brunswick Place). BT's photo illustration of the box looks reason enough to deny permission, but the picture actually under-emphasises the true 1.6m height of the apparatus – too incongruous by far. How about replacing the existing box with a (preferably smaller) one and packing the new electronics in that. http://wam.brighton- hove.gov.uk/Planning WAM/doc/Photo(s)-157 4515.pdf?extension=. pdf&id=1574515&a
mp;locat ion=VOLUME3&cont
entT ype=application/pdf&
amp; pageCount=1
It doesn't look that bad to me!

Its that size for a reason no doubt, I doubt you could make it any smaller due to minimum airflow requirements to allow the stuff inside to work, perhaps they could make it longer or wider and keep the height the same???

But whatever happens, FAST broadband is essential for the many internet businesses of Brighton & Hove, it being a major centre for web development!

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Acheron says...
6:14pm Sat 3 Jul 10

Thumper Hove wrote:
Stu wrote:
"We are not saying no – we just want to be consulted.” or in other words, "You can put them anywhere, as long as it's not outside MY front door". NIMBYS!!!
Very well said!
Be fair though, would any of us really want them outside our front door if they could be put elsewhere! If you're volunteering, then I suspect BT will be keen to hear from you. ;-)

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Tony Davenport says...
6:21pm Sat 3 Jul 10

I'm conflicted as I am a conservationist but want faster broadband. However there some points here to bear in mind.

1. BT have admitted the boxes are much larger than they need to be.

2. These are to be placed in addition to the BT boxes already on the streets, not replacing them.

3. They will not magically make your broadband any faster - the price structure will be different from regular broadband. To give you an idea Virgin Media use the same system and charge £38 per month for it with a minimum 1 year contract.

4. People who are objecting to these boxes are not necessarily NIMBYs - they want them placed in positions where there is minimal interference to everyone - it's not a case of not wanting it outside their house, but not minding it outside someone else's.

Tony Davenport

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Nyberg says...
7:35pm Sat 3 Jul 10

Tony Davenport wrote:
I'm conflicted as I am a conservationist but want faster broadband. However there some points here to bear in mind. 1. BT have admitted the boxes are much larger than they need to be. 2. These are to be placed in addition to the BT boxes already on the streets, not replacing them. 3. They will not magically make your broadband any faster - the price structure will be different from regular broadband. To give you an idea Virgin Media use the same system and charge £38 per month for it with a minimum 1 year contract. 4. People who are objecting to these boxes are not necessarily NIMBYs - they want them placed in positions where there is minimal interference to everyone - it's not a case of not wanting it outside their house, but not minding it outside someone else's. Tony Davenport
Tony - I genuinely don't care. We have a BT box right outside our house. If by putting another one, 5 times the size, next to it my broadband is much faster I can live with it.
I'm really not bothered. All I want is very fast broadband.

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Tony Davenport says...
8:23pm Sat 3 Jul 10

I know the feeling! I think - from my conversations with people in the groups - that's exactly what they want to be sure of, that the people who get these boxes outside their house are not objecting to them being there. Do keep in mind point 3 - you're not getting faster internet for free!

Tony Davenport

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RickH says...
12:20pm Sun 4 Jul 10

Tony Davenport wrote:
I know the feeling! I think - from my conversations with people in the groups - that's exactly what they want to be sure of, that the people who get these boxes outside their house are not objecting to them being there. Do keep in mind point 3 - you're not getting faster internet for free! Tony Davenport
No; but then again once 'super' and 'ultra' fast BB is here (once called Next Generation Access Networks due to being fibre based, as opposed to copper; BTW, the reason behind two boxes not one ie the copper infrastructure will stay in place), it will have a competition effect. Thus, people will move 'fast' to the others, therefore driving down demand and prices on the fast. Therefore, 'fast' (currently set as minumum 2+Mps) will become the 'universal' provision element (as covered by the Universal Service Commitment covering electronic communications provision in the UK) and its price will be very low.

This has the potential effect of encouraging those who are current excluded from broadband due to price (you cited Virgin & £30odd pcm) to take up the minimal/universal provision. So whilst it may not be 'free', in relative terms it may appear 'free' to someone with loads dosh, to those who may have £20 a week spare, they get access at an affordable price.

Thus, one potential effect is that all these nice people in their lovely little houses in the conservation area are having the effect of disbarring poor people for enjoy the positive benefits (both social and economic) of broadband.

Maybe time to all to rethink issues relating to boxes and consider them a fair price for a society with all its members on the Internet ;)

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Lusty91a says...
2:06pm Tue 6 Jul 10

What a fuss over nothing,I must admit that the new BT do not look good.people have two choices stick with the old BT boxes and get Slow internet speeds or have the new BT boxes and get Faster speeds its simple as that.

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fundraised says...
9:08am Wed 7 Jul 10

I read the story & all the comments. I've looked at the illustration, yet I still have no idea of the dimensions of either the old style cabinets or their proposed replacements. There has been a mention that they are to be green. What shade? Are we talking about a six foot high metallic Lime Green totem pole, or a more ascetically pleasing shaped box (cabinet) painted in a similar colour to "British Racing Green"?

People need facts to make decisions, not just telling me it's larger. How much larger? Where exactly would they be sited, relative to the curb & the rest of the pavement?

Typical Argus, lots of bluster, but no simple facts.

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tribaleye says...
12:25am Fri 9 Jul 10

chipmunk77 wrote:
tribaleye wrote:
Sure, we need to keep up with the broadband revolution, but I welcome the Conservation department's decision to refuse at least that box proposed for the top of Brunswick Square (app ref BH2010/01474; 5-7 Brunswick Place). BT's photo illustration of the box looks reason enough to deny permission, but the picture actually under-emphasises the true 1.6m height of the apparatus – too incongruous by far. How about replacing the existing box with a (preferably smaller) one and packing the new electronics in that. http://wam.brighton- hove.gov.uk/Planning WAM/doc/Photo(s)-157 4515.pdf?extension=. pdf&id=1574515&a
mp;a
mp;locat ion=VOLUME3&cont

entT ype=application/pdf&
amp;
amp; pageCount=1
It doesn't look that bad to me!

Its that size for a reason no doubt, I doubt you could make it any smaller due to minimum airflow requirements to allow the stuff inside to work, perhaps they could make it longer or wider and keep the height the same???

But whatever happens, FAST broadband is essential for the many internet businesses of Brighton & Hove, it being a major centre for web development!
Indeed Chipmunk77, it doesn't look that bad – that's because BT Openzone's graphic is a poor and inaccurate impression of what they appear to have in mind - 1.6m is not an insignificant height for a box placed at an angle to an already existing box

Contrary to your assertion that they need to be the size applied for, it does appear that they can after all get their equipment into smaller boxes – hence the new application, which I personally have no issues with for the Brunswick Place location.

As a jewel in the crown of British architectural heritage I think we DO need to be careful about how corporations try to modify Brunswick Town and similar locations in Brighton & Hove. Yes, I know some people don't much care, but the residents of those places generally do, and the City relies on those places more than most care to realise.

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