Liveblog: 1,500 students join Brighton march against education cuts

The Argus: CONTROL: A policeman confronts at protester outside Brighton Town Hall this afternoon. CONTROL: A policeman confronts at protester outside Brighton Town Hall this afternoon.

Students protesting in Brighton today occupied a council building, and stormed a university building, Vodafone and Poundland.

About 1,500 students marched through the city in protest at the steep rise in tuition fees.

At about 3pm, a group of them approached Brighton Town Hall in Bartholemew Square, and shortly afterwards occupied Priory House nearby.

Another group entered the Brighton University building in Grand Parade.

Police kettled hundreds of students in Bartholemew Square, but through the afternoon there were further scuffles in Black Lion Street, Churchill Square, North Street, Bond Street and by the police station in John Street.

At one point, about 40 protesters stormed the Vodafone store in Western Road. When riot police ejected them, they then moved onto Poundland, where a small amount of damage was caused.

Click here for a picture gallery of photos from the protest.

Click on play below to view a liveblog of the march:

Students from universities and colleges across the city first gathered in Dyke Road Park, near Brighton and Hove Sixth Form College (BHASVIC), in Duke Road, Hove, at 2pm.

They then marched through the city to Churchill Square, and made their way to Victoria Gardens.

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Students from University of Sussex also met in Library Square on the Falmer campus at 12pm.

The Argus understands that pupils from BHASVIC, Dorothy Stringer School, in Loder Road, Brighton, Longhill High School in Falmer Road, Rottingdean and Blatchington Mill School in Nevill Avenue, Hove, are all joining the 2pm march.

They are protesting against Government proposals to cut the teaching budget and raise the cap on tuition fees to £9,000 a year.

One 17-year-old Vardean student said: “By marching today we hope to show our opposition to the proposed cuts to higher education, which are going to affect our future drastically.”

Chief Superintendent Graham Bartlett said: "People have a genuine grievance and we are happy to help them air their discontent. We liaised closely with the organisers of the march to help plan for a safe and secure environment for both protesters and local residents and to prevent crime and disorder.

"Protesters of the planned march were co-operative and followed the agreed route, peacefully marching from Dyke Road to the city centre, causing minimum disruption to the area. Unfortunately a small group broke away from the organised march, causing minor disorder, criminal damage and disruption.

"A small number of buildings in the city centre have been closed for the safety of protesters and those occupying the buildings, including a university building. Sussex Police has been working with the universities to keep their buildings open, but unfortunately some criminal trespass has been taking place.

"There have been protesters outside the Town Hall and a small number managed to get in, but were soon ejected with no damage caused. Protesters have also been in various other parts of the city centre including outside the police station and there are sufficient resources to deal with any crime and disorder that the minority are committing."

Comments (189)

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11:47am Wed 24 Nov 10

true-brightonian says...

Having spoken to local students, it is obvious that support for this walkout is huge. I urge everyone to support our students and the future of this country. An educated population is a necessity for us, and the government's proposals mean that further education will not be an option for many and will leave those who do attend with a lifetime of debt. How is it that someone who studies nursing or teaching at degree level pays back the same as someone who studies finance or banking?
Having spoken to local students, it is obvious that support for this walkout is huge. I urge everyone to support our students and the future of this country. An educated population is a necessity for us, and the government's proposals mean that further education will not be an option for many and will leave those who do attend with a lifetime of debt. How is it that someone who studies nursing or teaching at degree level pays back the same as someone who studies finance or banking? true-brightonian

11:52am Wed 24 Nov 10

Andy R says...

I'll be there!
I'll be there! Andy R

12:14pm Wed 24 Nov 10

LtPaperclip says...

I dont care about students and object to having my tax used to fund their education.
I dont care about students and object to having my tax used to fund their education. LtPaperclip

12:14pm Wed 24 Nov 10

blesshim says...

Teachers at Portslade Community College are actively encouraging their 5th form students skip this afternoon's lessons to join the march
Teachers at Portslade Community College are actively encouraging their 5th form students skip this afternoon's lessons to join the march blesshim

12:29pm Wed 24 Nov 10

sussexladybabe says...

true-brightonian wrote:
Having spoken to local students, it is obvious that support for this walkout is huge. I urge everyone to support our students and the future of this country. An educated population is a necessity for us, and the government's proposals mean that further education will not be an option for many and will leave those who do attend with a lifetime of debt. How is it that someone who studies nursing or teaching at degree level pays back the same as someone who studies finance or banking?
It is quite ironic isn't it that before every Tom, Dick and Sheila went into higher education around 30 years ago we seemed to have higher standards in every walk of life. Unfortunately the socialist psychopaths seem to believe in fairy stories ie everyone can be an intellectual, scientist, solicitor or engineer when in fact the opposite is true.
[quote][p][bold]true-brightonian[/bold] wrote: Having spoken to local students, it is obvious that support for this walkout is huge. I urge everyone to support our students and the future of this country. An educated population is a necessity for us, and the government's proposals mean that further education will not be an option for many and will leave those who do attend with a lifetime of debt. How is it that someone who studies nursing or teaching at degree level pays back the same as someone who studies finance or banking?[/p][/quote]It is quite ironic isn't it that before every Tom, Dick and Sheila went into higher education around 30 years ago we seemed to have higher standards in every walk of life. Unfortunately the socialist psychopaths seem to believe in fairy stories ie everyone can be an intellectual, scientist, solicitor or engineer when in fact the opposite is true. sussexladybabe

12:37pm Wed 24 Nov 10

true-brightonian says...

@sussexladybabe, the world has changed since then. Today's youngsters are told from Day 1 then need to get a degree, otherwise their lives are not worth living. On top of that, 30 years ago this country made actual things. Those manufacturing jobs are long gone now. To get a job that allows you to raise a family today, I am afraid you need to have an education. 30 years ago most jobs didn't require a degree. Today they do. Our young people will find themselves having to compete against better educated Europeans, Indians and Chinese. Maybe you should study history.
@sussexladybabe, the world has changed since then. Today's youngsters are told from Day 1 then need to get a degree, otherwise their lives are not worth living. On top of that, 30 years ago this country made actual things. Those manufacturing jobs are long gone now. To get a job that allows you to raise a family today, I am afraid you need to have an education. 30 years ago most jobs didn't require a degree. Today they do. Our young people will find themselves having to compete against better educated Europeans, Indians and Chinese. Maybe you should study history. true-brightonian

12:38pm Wed 24 Nov 10

MarcoPolo says...

Couple of points:
Teachers who recommend student action are breaking the law.
It was these very same middle-class 'students' who voted in their thousands in this town for the Lib-dems.
The Universities wanted this deal hence the Russell Group lobbying.
The deal is progressive. Richer pay more, nobody pays up-front. You only pay when you hit 21k earnings. 150 million to support poorer students.
Couple of points: Teachers who recommend student action are breaking the law. It was these very same middle-class 'students' who voted in their thousands in this town for the Lib-dems. The Universities wanted this deal hence the Russell Group lobbying. The deal is progressive. Richer pay more, nobody pays up-front. You only pay when you hit 21k earnings. 150 million to support poorer students. MarcoPolo

12:50pm Wed 24 Nov 10

true-brightonian says...

@MarcoPolo "Nobody pays up-front". Well, the last time ordinary people were told they didn't have to pay up front for HUGE but essential expenses, we ended up with the worst global financial crisis since the 1930s. Remember 100% mortgages? Are you honestly saying that we should saddle our kids with a lifetime of debt.

As for students voting Lib Dem, this was because they naively believed Nick Clegg when we promised to abolish fees. I don't see many students voting for them again, which is why their popularity has dropped 50% among students recently. I take it you either already have a (free) degree or never saw the need to get an education?
@MarcoPolo "Nobody pays up-front". Well, the last time ordinary people were told they didn't have to pay up front for HUGE but essential expenses, we ended up with the worst global financial crisis since the 1930s. Remember 100% mortgages? Are you honestly saying that we should saddle our kids with a lifetime of debt. As for students voting Lib Dem, this was because they naively believed Nick Clegg when we promised to abolish fees. I don't see many students voting for them again, which is why their popularity has dropped 50% among students recently. I take it you either already have a (free) degree or never saw the need to get an education? true-brightonian

12:54pm Wed 24 Nov 10

Fight Back says...

true-brightonian wrote:
@sussexladybabe, the world has changed since then. Today's youngsters are told from Day 1 then need to get a degree, otherwise their lives are not worth living. On top of that, 30 years ago this country made actual things. Those manufacturing jobs are long gone now. To get a job that allows you to raise a family today, I am afraid you need to have an education. 30 years ago most jobs didn't require a degree. Today they do. Our young people will find themselves having to compete against better educated Europeans, Indians and Chinese. Maybe you should study history.
Strange because I know plumbers, builders, sparkies, roofers and carpenters that make very decent livings without a degree. It's a myth that you have to go to Uni to be able to get a decent job. Many achieve it with honest sweat and toil without being a drain on the taxpayer.
[quote][p][bold]true-brightonian[/bold] wrote: @sussexladybabe, the world has changed since then. Today's youngsters are told from Day 1 then need to get a degree, otherwise their lives are not worth living. On top of that, 30 years ago this country made actual things. Those manufacturing jobs are long gone now. To get a job that allows you to raise a family today, I am afraid you need to have an education. 30 years ago most jobs didn't require a degree. Today they do. Our young people will find themselves having to compete against better educated Europeans, Indians and Chinese. Maybe you should study history.[/p][/quote]Strange because I know plumbers, builders, sparkies, roofers and carpenters that make very decent livings without a degree. It's a myth that you have to go to Uni to be able to get a decent job. Many achieve it with honest sweat and toil without being a drain on the taxpayer. Fight Back

12:59pm Wed 24 Nov 10

true-brightonian says...

@Fight Back, The City of Brighton and Hove, well that is great for them. I am sure you are right, but not everyone can be a plumber or a builder. How many women do you know who are "plumbers, builders, sparkies, roofers and carpenters"? Not many, I expect.
@Fight Back, The City of Brighton and Hove, well that is great for them. I am sure you are right, but not everyone can be a plumber or a builder. How many women do you know who are "plumbers, builders, sparkies, roofers and carpenters"? Not many, I expect. true-brightonian

1:05pm Wed 24 Nov 10

Fight Back says...

true-brightonian wrote:
@Fight Back, The City of Brighton and Hove, well that is great for them. I am sure you are right, but not everyone can be a plumber or a builder. How many women do you know who are "plumbers, builders, sparkies, roofers and carpenters"? Not many, I expect.
The key statement in your reply is "but not everyone can be" - EXACTLY. And so not everyone should expect to go to Uni or indeed be able to go to Uni. Unfortunately the current generation believe it to be a right rather than a privilege. University should be for the very top performing students NOT 50% of the population.
[quote][p][bold]true-brightonian[/bold] wrote: @Fight Back, The City of Brighton and Hove, well that is great for them. I am sure you are right, but not everyone can be a plumber or a builder. How many women do you know who are "plumbers, builders, sparkies, roofers and carpenters"? Not many, I expect.[/p][/quote]The key statement in your reply is "but not everyone can be" - EXACTLY. And so not everyone should expect to go to Uni or indeed be able to go to Uni. Unfortunately the current generation believe it to be a right rather than a privilege. University should be for the very top performing students NOT 50% of the population. Fight Back

1:10pm Wed 24 Nov 10

Granny says...

I was lucky enough to be taught in the old fashioned way, learning the three Rs as a basic foundation. I never had a university education but because I could read, write and spell I got a good job and worked my way up to be an insurance underwriter. All this without a university education or degree. All that is needed these days are proper teachers to give the young people a good grounding, and I, like a previous contributor, object to paying for the sub-standard teaching in schools nowadays. I feel sorry for the young people today who are not stretched to their full capabilities by the teachers.
I was lucky enough to be taught in the old fashioned way, learning the three Rs as a basic foundation. I never had a university education but because I could read, write and spell I got a good job and worked my way up to be an insurance underwriter. All this without a university education or degree. All that is needed these days are proper teachers to give the young people a good grounding, and I, like a previous contributor, object to paying for the sub-standard teaching in schools nowadays. I feel sorry for the young people today who are not stretched to their full capabilities by the teachers. Granny

1:10pm Wed 24 Nov 10

Mr Lahey says...

Fight Back wrote:
true-brightonian wrote: @sussexladybabe, the world has changed since then. Today's youngsters are told from Day 1 then need to get a degree, otherwise their lives are not worth living. On top of that, 30 years ago this country made actual things. Those manufacturing jobs are long gone now. To get a job that allows you to raise a family today, I am afraid you need to have an education. 30 years ago most jobs didn't require a degree. Today they do. Our young people will find themselves having to compete against better educated Europeans, Indians and Chinese. Maybe you should study history.
Strange because I know plumbers, builders, sparkies, roofers and carpenters that make very decent livings without a degree. It's a myth that you have to go to Uni to be able to get a decent job. Many achieve it with honest sweat and toil without being a drain on the taxpayer.
Depends on your definition of a 'decent job' really - Not many of my fellow finance graduates are draining the taxpayer these days (well maybe some of them are are, in a different way, perhaps)

Some degrees are necessary for certain roles, but it should be the University's responsibility to weed out the good & hardworking prospective students from the middle of the road entrants, who use university to try and escape a world of mediocrity in their boring satellite towns. (of which from experience there is a very high percentage of in Brighton)

However, as we know, the funding problems will only encourage the universities to relax entry requirements in favour of higher revenue, which breeds the second category of student, above.
[quote][p][bold]Fight Back[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]true-brightonian[/bold] wrote: @sussexladybabe, the world has changed since then. Today's youngsters are told from Day 1 then need to get a degree, otherwise their lives are not worth living. On top of that, 30 years ago this country made actual things. Those manufacturing jobs are long gone now. To get a job that allows you to raise a family today, I am afraid you need to have an education. 30 years ago most jobs didn't require a degree. Today they do. Our young people will find themselves having to compete against better educated Europeans, Indians and Chinese. Maybe you should study history.[/p][/quote]Strange because I know plumbers, builders, sparkies, roofers and carpenters that make very decent livings without a degree. It's a myth that you have to go to Uni to be able to get a decent job. Many achieve it with honest sweat and toil without being a drain on the taxpayer.[/p][/quote]Depends on your definition of a 'decent job' really - Not many of my fellow finance graduates are draining the taxpayer these days (well maybe some of them are are, in a different way, perhaps) Some degrees are necessary for certain roles, but it should be the University's responsibility to weed out the good & hardworking prospective students from the middle of the road entrants, who use university to try and escape a world of mediocrity in their boring satellite towns. (of which from experience there is a very high percentage of in Brighton) However, as we know, the funding problems will only encourage the universities to relax entry requirements in favour of higher revenue, which breeds the second category of student, above. Mr Lahey

1:15pm Wed 24 Nov 10

Ballroom Blitz says...

true-brightonian wrote:
@sussexladybabe, the world has changed since then. Today's youngsters are told from Day 1 then need to get a degree, otherwise their lives are not worth living. On top of that, 30 years ago this country made actual things. Those manufacturing jobs are long gone now. To get a job that allows you to raise a family today, I am afraid you need to have an education. 30 years ago most jobs didn't require a degree. Today they do. Our young people will find themselves having to compete against better educated Europeans, Indians and Chinese. Maybe you should study history.
It's a myth that you need a degree to get on in life. However, you do need an education - which is not quite the same thing.
If I was 18 now and leaving school there is no way that I would go to university and saddle myself with an enormous debt.
It's a con. If everyone has degrees, then it becomes another level playing field, which is just the sort of thing one would hope to avoid by getting a degree in the first place!
We need to get back to A Levels being truly difficult to pass, and unversity education being only for the elite. And by 'elite' I don't mean people with a lot of money. University should be reserved for the truly gifted, not for everyone who manages to scrape through a dummed-down A Level course in media studies.
That's where we have gone wrong.
However, Nick Clegg is a two faced, lying git. Don't ever make the mistake of believing anyone's manifesto pledges in the future. With luck, this will see the lib dems out in the wilderness for another 100 years come the next election.
You might as well vote for the person with the nicest hat... it will tell you more about them than their manifesto.
[quote][p][bold]true-brightonian[/bold] wrote: @sussexladybabe, the world has changed since then. Today's youngsters are told from Day 1 then need to get a degree, otherwise their lives are not worth living. On top of that, 30 years ago this country made actual things. Those manufacturing jobs are long gone now. To get a job that allows you to raise a family today, I am afraid you need to have an education. 30 years ago most jobs didn't require a degree. Today they do. Our young people will find themselves having to compete against better educated Europeans, Indians and Chinese. Maybe you should study history.[/p][/quote]It's a myth that you need a degree to get on in life. However, you do need an education - which is not quite the same thing. If I was 18 now and leaving school there is no way that I would go to university and saddle myself with an enormous debt. It's a con. If everyone has degrees, then it becomes another level playing field, which is just the sort of thing one would hope to avoid by getting a degree in the first place! We need to get back to A Levels being truly difficult to pass, and unversity education being only for the elite. And by 'elite' I don't mean people with a lot of money. University should be reserved for the truly gifted, not for everyone who manages to scrape through a dummed-down A Level course in media studies. That's where we have gone wrong. However, Nick Clegg is a two faced, lying git. Don't ever make the mistake of believing anyone's manifesto pledges in the future. With luck, this will see the lib dems out in the wilderness for another 100 years come the next election. You might as well vote for the person with the nicest hat... it will tell you more about them than their manifesto. Ballroom Blitz

1:18pm Wed 24 Nov 10

Jonny Knows says...

I'll be at the demo supporting the students and protesting against the government cuts.
I'll be at the demo supporting the students and protesting against the government cuts. Jonny Knows

1:30pm Wed 24 Nov 10

Lady Smith says...

LtPaperclip wrote:
I dont care about students and object to having my tax used to fund their education.
I don't care about LtPaperclip and object to having my tax used to fund their ...... .
Not so nice being on the receiving end of a selfish, narrow-minded outlook, is it?
[quote][p][bold]LtPaperclip[/bold] wrote: I dont care about students and object to having my tax used to fund their education.[/p][/quote]I don't care about LtPaperclip and object to having my tax used to fund their ...... [fill in the gap]. Not so nice being on the receiving end of a selfish, narrow-minded outlook, is it? Lady Smith

1:57pm Wed 24 Nov 10

rs says...

LtPaperclip wrote:
I dont care about students and object to having my tax used to fund their education.
and when you retire those well paid graduates will be helping to fund you.

Its not just the graduates that benefit from higher education its the ecconomy as a whole.

there's a reason why the emerging ecconomies are throwing money at education.
[quote][p][bold]LtPaperclip[/bold] wrote: I dont care about students and object to having my tax used to fund their education.[/p][/quote]and when you retire those well paid graduates will be helping to fund you. Its not just the graduates that benefit from higher education its the ecconomy as a whole. there's a reason why the emerging ecconomies are throwing money at education. rs

1:58pm Wed 24 Nov 10

jay316 says...

and is the policing costs really helping the issue with cuts.

Will be interesting to see if the Rent-a-mob thugs will be there also. Like some girl on Sky News just said.. people smashing property, be it police or not isn't helping the cause!
and is the policing costs really helping the issue with cuts. Will be interesting to see if the Rent-a-mob thugs will be there also. Like some girl on Sky News just said.. people smashing property, be it police or not isn't helping the cause! jay316

2:19pm Wed 24 Nov 10

rayellerton says...

sorry for the young students but we all have to swallow the cuts being made across the board....they are not a special case. Anyway, the brightest students will always be accepted at University...
sorry for the young students but we all have to swallow the cuts being made across the board....they are not a special case. Anyway, the brightest students will always be accepted at University... rayellerton

2:23pm Wed 24 Nov 10

commentisfree says...

Why do you all think it is only about cuts in University education?
Why do you all think it is only about cuts in University education? commentisfree

2:27pm Wed 24 Nov 10

LtPaperclip says...

Lady Smith wrote:
LtPaperclip wrote: I dont care about students and object to having my tax used to fund their education.
I don't care about LtPaperclip and object to having my tax used to fund their ...... . Not so nice being on the receiving end of a selfish, narrow-minded outlook, is it?
Dear Lady Smith
Nothing you say or do no matter how much you call my names or poke fun at me would make me change my mind.

Why should adults have free funding for education ?
[quote][p][bold]Lady Smith[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]LtPaperclip[/bold] wrote: I dont care about students and object to having my tax used to fund their education.[/p][/quote]I don't care about LtPaperclip and object to having my tax used to fund their ...... [fill in the gap]. Not so nice being on the receiving end of a selfish, narrow-minded outlook, is it?[/p][/quote]Dear Lady Smith Nothing you say or do no matter how much you call my names or poke fun at me would make me change my mind. Why should adults have free funding for education ? LtPaperclip

2:32pm Wed 24 Nov 10

LtPaperclip says...

rs wrote:
LtPaperclip wrote: I dont care about students and object to having my tax used to fund their education.
and when you retire those well paid graduates will be helping to fund you. Its not just the graduates that benefit from higher education its the ecconomy as a whole. there's a reason why the emerging ecconomies are throwing money at education.
Thanks to Tony Blair and Gordon Brown I very much expect never to retire , I along with a whole generation of people my age will actually probaly die whilst working to pay off the national debt or fund idol students through uni ...... I know for a fact that Brighton students spend most of there free time....which is most of the time drinking or going to gigs, i know this as i lived with some students in 2001-2003...dont call me a liar because you all know this is true.
[quote][p][bold]rs[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]LtPaperclip[/bold] wrote: I dont care about students and object to having my tax used to fund their education.[/p][/quote]and when you retire those well paid graduates will be helping to fund you. Its not just the graduates that benefit from higher education its the ecconomy as a whole. there's a reason why the emerging ecconomies are throwing money at education.[/p][/quote]Thanks to Tony Blair and Gordon Brown I very much expect never to retire , I along with a whole generation of people my age will actually probaly die whilst working to pay off the national debt or fund idol students through uni ...... I know for a fact that Brighton students spend most of there free time....which is most of the time drinking or going to gigs, i know this as i lived with some students in 2001-2003...dont call me a liar because you all know this is true. LtPaperclip

2:37pm Wed 24 Nov 10

LtPaperclip says...

commentisfree wrote:
Why do you all think it is only about cuts in University education?
You wait until next year when all the new taxes and cuts take effect. You better get in line at the soup kitchens or you will be going hungry .
There are no free rides in life...Students should get part time jobs to pay for extra education and not see free goverment cash as there right.
[quote][p][bold]commentisfree[/bold] wrote: Why do you all think it is only about cuts in University education?[/p][/quote]You wait until next year when all the new taxes and cuts take effect. You better get in line at the soup kitchens or you will be going hungry . There are no free rides in life...Students should get part time jobs to pay for extra education and not see free goverment cash as there right. LtPaperclip

2:51pm Wed 24 Nov 10

commentisfree says...

LtPaperclip wrote:
commentisfree wrote: Why do you all think it is only about cuts in University education?
You wait until next year when all the new taxes and cuts take effect. You better get in line at the soup kitchens or you will be going hungry . There are no free rides in life...Students should get part time jobs to pay for extra education and not see free goverment cash as there right.
Aw bless, you really don't understand, do you?

These cuts are about the Government removing all state support, and not just from students.

Students do need to support themselves to an extent - we all have to. But not to the point where only the wealthy can succeed.

Smelling that coffee yet?
[quote][p][bold]LtPaperclip[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]commentisfree[/bold] wrote: Why do you all think it is only about cuts in University education?[/p][/quote]You wait until next year when all the new taxes and cuts take effect. You better get in line at the soup kitchens or you will be going hungry . There are no free rides in life...Students should get part time jobs to pay for extra education and not see free goverment cash as there right.[/p][/quote]Aw bless, you really don't understand, do you? These cuts are about the Government removing all state support, and not just from students. Students do need to support themselves to an extent - we all have to. But not to the point where only the wealthy can succeed. Smelling that coffee yet? commentisfree

2:53pm Wed 24 Nov 10

Skippah says...

The whole reason we can no longer fund and subsidise all these students is because of the idea that was pushed on us that everybody had the right to go to university. Had we just stuck with putting the best of the best, regardless of their background, into university we could afford to fund them all fully.
.
The majority of the people protesting are only at university because we ignored our ability to fund them via tax money, now they are being told to pay (only once they are earning £21k, mind you) for their educations, they don't like it.
.
Still, they aren't happy and have the right to protest, and I support that fully. Whilst not agreeing with them, they are doing what they think is right, so good on them!
The whole reason we can no longer fund and subsidise all these students is because of the idea that was pushed on us that everybody had the right to go to university. Had we just stuck with putting the best of the best, regardless of their background, into university we could afford to fund them all fully. . The majority of the people protesting are only at university because we ignored our ability to fund them via tax money, now they are being told to pay (only once they are earning £21k, mind you) for their educations, they don't like it. . Still, they aren't happy and have the right to protest, and I support that fully. Whilst not agreeing with them, they are doing what they think is right, so good on them! Skippah

2:56pm Wed 24 Nov 10

MisterB says...

One of the little oiks threw an orange up at the window my colleagues and I were leaning out of. Scumbag students.

Why aren't they in class anyway? It's term time.
One of the little oiks threw an orange up at the window my colleagues and I were leaning out of. Scumbag students. Why aren't they in class anyway? It's term time. MisterB

3:00pm Wed 24 Nov 10

LtPaperclip says...

commentisfree wrote:
LtPaperclip wrote:
commentisfree wrote: Why do you all think it is only about cuts in University education?
You wait until next year when all the new taxes and cuts take effect. You better get in line at the soup kitchens or you will be going hungry . There are no free rides in life...Students should get part time jobs to pay for extra education and not see free goverment cash as there right.
Aw bless, you really don't understand, do you? These cuts are about the Government removing all state support, and not just from students. Students do need to support themselves to an extent - we all have to. But not to the point where only the wealthy can succeed. Smelling that coffee yet?
awww bless , you really think you can intimidate me ? ha ha....any way as i am not entitled to any goverment benifits any way i dont see why i should care tbh, are the wealthy not already in the secceeded club ?

No one has told me yet why my tax should be used to pay for a adults education ?
[quote][p][bold]commentisfree[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]LtPaperclip[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]commentisfree[/bold] wrote: Why do you all think it is only about cuts in University education?[/p][/quote]You wait until next year when all the new taxes and cuts take effect. You better get in line at the soup kitchens or you will be going hungry . There are no free rides in life...Students should get part time jobs to pay for extra education and not see free goverment cash as there right.[/p][/quote]Aw bless, you really don't understand, do you? These cuts are about the Government removing all state support, and not just from students. Students do need to support themselves to an extent - we all have to. But not to the point where only the wealthy can succeed. Smelling that coffee yet?[/p][/quote]awww bless , you really think you can intimidate me ? ha ha....any way as i am not entitled to any goverment benifits any way i dont see why i should care tbh, are the wealthy not already in the secceeded club ? No one has told me yet why my tax should be used to pay for a adults education ? LtPaperclip

3:01pm Wed 24 Nov 10

heidic1234 says...

LtPaperclip wrote:
commentisfree wrote:
Why do you all think it is only about cuts in University education?
You wait until next year when all the new taxes and cuts take effect. You better get in line at the soup kitchens or you will be going hungry .
There are no free rides in life...Students should get part time jobs to pay for extra education and not see free goverment cash as there right.
Most students DO have part time jobs and some, like myself, have to get full time jobs. Do you seriously think that we get thousands of pounds thrown at us? I don't believe I have a "right" to my degree but I have worked VERY hard through school and college to get here. Why should I and all the hard working students getting good a-level grades because they want to be educated and learn have to miss out on this?
The protests aren't just about the rise in fee's which is extortionate, they are about the government attempting to destroy all opportunities for the poor. If I was 18 and was told I was going to have to pay £30,000 for university by a group of men who never paid student top up fee's I wouldn't go. But then again, that's the point isn't it?
[quote][p][bold]LtPaperclip[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]commentisfree[/bold] wrote: Why do you all think it is only about cuts in University education?[/p][/quote]You wait until next year when all the new taxes and cuts take effect. You better get in line at the soup kitchens or you will be going hungry . There are no free rides in life...Students should get part time jobs to pay for extra education and not see free goverment cash as there right.[/p][/quote]Most students DO have part time jobs and some, like myself, have to get full time jobs. Do you seriously think that we get thousands of pounds thrown at us? I don't believe I have a "right" to my degree but I have worked VERY hard through school and college to get here. Why should I and all the hard working students getting good a-level grades because they want to be educated and learn have to miss out on this? The protests aren't just about the rise in fee's which is extortionate, they are about the government attempting to destroy all opportunities for the poor. If I was 18 and was told I was going to have to pay £30,000 for university by a group of men who never paid student top up fee's I wouldn't go. But then again, that's the point isn't it? heidic1234

3:04pm Wed 24 Nov 10

LtPaperclip says...

Skippah wrote:
The whole reason we can no longer fund and subsidise all these students is because of the idea that was pushed on us that everybody had the right to go to university. Had we just stuck with putting the best of the best, regardless of their background, into university we could afford to fund them all fully. . The majority of the people protesting are only at university because we ignored our ability to fund them via tax money, now they are being told to pay (only once they are earning £21k, mind you) for their educations, they don't like it. . Still, they aren't happy and have the right to protest, and I support that fully. Whilst not agreeing with them, they are doing what they think is right, so good on them!
I dont even agree with them having the right to protest. What right do the schools have to allow there pupils to leave school and go out on a march ??????? which parents gave permission for that ? The secondary schools that let children out of school should be prosecuted.
[quote][p][bold]Skippah[/bold] wrote: The whole reason we can no longer fund and subsidise all these students is because of the idea that was pushed on us that everybody had the right to go to university. Had we just stuck with putting the best of the best, regardless of their background, into university we could afford to fund them all fully. . The majority of the people protesting are only at university because we ignored our ability to fund them via tax money, now they are being told to pay (only once they are earning £21k, mind you) for their educations, they don't like it. . Still, they aren't happy and have the right to protest, and I support that fully. Whilst not agreeing with them, they are doing what they think is right, so good on them![/p][/quote]I dont even agree with them having the right to protest. What right do the schools have to allow there pupils to leave school and go out on a march ??????? which parents gave permission for that ? The secondary schools that let children out of school should be prosecuted. LtPaperclip

3:05pm Wed 24 Nov 10

LtPaperclip says...

The EDO mob do a better protest, at least theirs is a proper reason to protest.
The EDO mob do a better protest, at least theirs is a proper reason to protest. LtPaperclip

3:09pm Wed 24 Nov 10

jay316 says...

MisterB wrote:
One of the little oiks threw an orange up at the window my colleagues and I were leaning out of. Scumbag students.

Why aren't they in class anyway? It's term time.
Because not all who are protesting are students.. some are the mindless thugs who smashed the town during last marches.

They are **** about cuts, yet during last campus protest, S.U. had to bring in extra security which cost money..

As with protests (and london is kicking off), the policing costs isn't helping with the so called CUTS.

What needs to happen to save money is to bring our troops home from the illegal Labour War (Blair) in Afghanistan, and the money be used (all reported £5billion a year) on health, and education.
[quote][p][bold]MisterB[/bold] wrote: One of the little oiks threw an orange up at the window my colleagues and I were leaning out of. Scumbag students. Why aren't they in class anyway? It's term time.[/p][/quote]Because not all who are protesting are students.. some are the mindless thugs who smashed the town during last marches. They are **** about cuts, yet during last campus protest, S.U. had to bring in extra security which cost money.. As with protests (and london is kicking off), the policing costs isn't helping with the so called CUTS. What needs to happen to save money is to bring our troops home from the illegal Labour War (Blair) in Afghanistan, and the money be used (all reported £5billion a year) on health, and education. jay316

3:11pm Wed 24 Nov 10

LtPaperclip says...

more violence in London ! smashing up police vans is really a good way to get the goverment to pay for your higher education !
more violence in London ! smashing up police vans is really a good way to get the goverment to pay for your higher education ! LtPaperclip

3:16pm Wed 24 Nov 10

Tippy Toes says...

true-brightonian wrote:
@Fight Back, The City of Brighton and Hove, well that is great for them. I am sure you are right, but not everyone can be a plumber or a builder. How many women do you know who are "plumbers, builders, sparkies, roofers and carpenters"? Not many, I expect.
I have a senior role at an independent school and I don't have a degree. Mr Lahey, I would say that I do have a decent job. When I left school very few people went on to University, but now it seems to be the norm. People just expect to go and for the rest of us to pay for them!
[quote][p][bold]true-brightonian[/bold] wrote: @Fight Back, The City of Brighton and Hove, well that is great for them. I am sure you are right, but not everyone can be a plumber or a builder. How many women do you know who are "plumbers, builders, sparkies, roofers and carpenters"? Not many, I expect.[/p][/quote]I have a senior role at an independent school and I don't have a degree. Mr Lahey, I would say that I do have a decent job. When I left school very few people went on to University, but now it seems to be the norm. People just expect to go and for the rest of us to pay for them! Tippy Toes

3:17pm Wed 24 Nov 10

Patrick Mustard says...

Fight Back wrote:
true-brightonian wrote: @Fight Back, The City of Brighton and Hove, well that is great for them. I am sure you are right, but not everyone can be a plumber or a builder. How many women do you know who are "plumbers, builders, sparkies, roofers and carpenters"? Not many, I expect.
The key statement in your reply is "but not everyone can be" - EXACTLY. And so not everyone should expect to go to Uni or indeed be able to go to Uni. Unfortunately the current generation believe it to be a right rather than a privilege. University should be for the very top performing students NOT 50% of the population.
Exactly. And then to have the expectation that because they have spent the last three years living with their mates and drinking subsidised lager, they should be able to expect to walk into a highly paid job with no real life experience, grates with me.

A degree from the university of life, a good standard of general basic education and an ability to communicate with people will get you much further in life than a degree in performing arts or media studies obtained for the sake of going to University.
[quote][p][bold]Fight Back[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]true-brightonian[/bold] wrote: @Fight Back, The City of Brighton and Hove, well that is great for them. I am sure you are right, but not everyone can be a plumber or a builder. How many women do you know who are "plumbers, builders, sparkies, roofers and carpenters"? Not many, I expect.[/p][/quote]The key statement in your reply is "but not everyone can be" - EXACTLY. And so not everyone should expect to go to Uni or indeed be able to go to Uni. Unfortunately the current generation believe it to be a right rather than a privilege. University should be for the very top performing students NOT 50% of the population.[/p][/quote]Exactly. And then to have the expectation that because they have spent the last three years living with their mates and drinking subsidised lager, they should be able to expect to walk into a highly paid job with no real life experience, grates with me. A degree from the university of life, a good standard of general basic education and an ability to communicate with people will get you much further in life than a degree in performing arts or media studies obtained for the sake of going to University. Patrick Mustard

3:22pm Wed 24 Nov 10

Tippy Toes says...

Fight Back wrote:
true-brightonian wrote:
@Fight Back, The City of Brighton and Hove, well that is great for them. I am sure you are right, but not everyone can be a plumber or a builder. How many women do you know who are "plumbers, builders, sparkies, roofers and carpenters"? Not many, I expect.
The key statement in your reply is "but not everyone can be" - EXACTLY. And so not everyone should expect to go to Uni or indeed be able to go to Uni. Unfortunately the current generation believe it to be a right rather than a privilege. University should be for the very top performing students NOT 50% of the population.
I couldn't have said it any better myself Fight Back!!
[quote][p][bold]Fight Back[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]true-brightonian[/bold] wrote: @Fight Back, The City of Brighton and Hove, well that is great for them. I am sure you are right, but not everyone can be a plumber or a builder. How many women do you know who are "plumbers, builders, sparkies, roofers and carpenters"? Not many, I expect.[/p][/quote]The key statement in your reply is "but not everyone can be" - EXACTLY. And so not everyone should expect to go to Uni or indeed be able to go to Uni. Unfortunately the current generation believe it to be a right rather than a privilege. University should be for the very top performing students NOT 50% of the population.[/p][/quote]I couldn't have said it any better myself Fight Back!! Tippy Toes

3:23pm Wed 24 Nov 10

Ballroom Blitz says...

I'll tell you all something: The rights and wrongs of this protest are one thing - let's put that to one side for a moment.
Let's address this point:
If any of you people protesting genuinely think that this arrogant, self serving, tory led government will pay the slightest attention to any of you - you are all all very sadly deluded and shouldn't be allowed out of doors for your own safety.
I'll tell you all something: The rights and wrongs of this protest are one thing - let's put that to one side for a moment. Let's address this point: If any of you people protesting genuinely think that this arrogant, self serving, tory led government will pay the slightest attention to any of you - you are all all very sadly deluded and shouldn't be allowed out of doors for your own safety. Ballroom Blitz

3:24pm Wed 24 Nov 10

jeremy radvan says...

Tippy Toes wrote:
true-brightonian wrote:
@Fight Back, The City of Brighton and Hove, well that is great for them. I am sure you are right, but not everyone can be a plumber or a builder. How many women do you know who are "plumbers, builders, sparkies, roofers and carpenters"? Not many, I expect.
I have a senior role at an independent school and I don't have a degree. Mr Lahey, I would say that I do have a decent job. When I left school very few people went on to University, but now it seems to be the norm. People just expect to go and for the rest of us to pay for them!
Good heavens! someone who works at a public school complaining about people expecting other people to pay for them.
Perhaps you could explain why the luxury of a private education is not subject to VAT? and why teachers at public schools are entitled to join the STATE subsidised Teachers' Pension Scheme? Scrounging and freeloading is at the very foundation of the public school business.
[quote][p][bold]Tippy Toes[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]true-brightonian[/bold] wrote: @Fight Back, The City of Brighton and Hove, well that is great for them. I am sure you are right, but not everyone can be a plumber or a builder. How many women do you know who are "plumbers, builders, sparkies, roofers and carpenters"? Not many, I expect.[/p][/quote]I have a senior role at an independent school and I don't have a degree. Mr Lahey, I would say that I do have a decent job. When I left school very few people went on to University, but now it seems to be the norm. People just expect to go and for the rest of us to pay for them![/p][/quote]Good heavens! someone who works at a public school complaining about people expecting other people to pay for them. Perhaps you could explain why the luxury of a private education is not subject to VAT? and why teachers at public schools are entitled to join the STATE subsidised Teachers' Pension Scheme? Scrounging and freeloading is at the very foundation of the public school business. jeremy radvan

3:25pm Wed 24 Nov 10

LtPaperclip says...

Ballroom Blitz wrote:
I'll tell you all something: The rights and wrongs of this protest are one thing - let's put that to one side for a moment. Let's address this point: If any of you people protesting genuinely think that this arrogant, self serving, tory led government will pay the slightest attention to any of you - you are all all very sadly deluded and shouldn't be allowed out of doors for your own safety.
Spot on the money
[quote][p][bold]Ballroom Blitz[/bold] wrote: I'll tell you all something: The rights and wrongs of this protest are one thing - let's put that to one side for a moment. Let's address this point: If any of you people protesting genuinely think that this arrogant, self serving, tory led government will pay the slightest attention to any of you - you are all all very sadly deluded and shouldn't be allowed out of doors for your own safety.[/p][/quote]Spot on the money LtPaperclip

3:32pm Wed 24 Nov 10

LtPaperclip says...

true-brightonian wrote:
@Fight Back, The City of Brighton and Hove, well that is great for them. I am sure you are right, but not everyone can be a plumber or a builder. How many women do you know who are "plumbers, builders, sparkies, roofers and carpenters"? Not many, I expect.
To your rather sexist comment i say ...its a free country ...any one can do any thing if they are capable of it ...male or female
[quote][p][bold]true-brightonian[/bold] wrote: @Fight Back, The City of Brighton and Hove, well that is great for them. I am sure you are right, but not everyone can be a plumber or a builder. How many women do you know who are "plumbers, builders, sparkies, roofers and carpenters"? Not many, I expect.[/p][/quote]To your rather sexist comment i say ...its a free country ...any one can do any thing if they are capable of it ...male or female LtPaperclip

3:32pm Wed 24 Nov 10

Tippy Toes says...

jeremy radvan wrote:
Tippy Toes wrote:
true-brightonian wrote:
@Fight Back, The City of Brighton and Hove, well that is great for them. I am sure you are right, but not everyone can be a plumber or a builder. How many women do you know who are "plumbers, builders, sparkies, roofers and carpenters"? Not many, I expect.
I have a senior role at an independent school and I don't have a degree. Mr Lahey, I would say that I do have a decent job. When I left school very few people went on to University, but now it seems to be the norm. People just expect to go and for the rest of us to pay for them!
Good heavens! someone who works at a public school complaining about people expecting other people to pay for them.
Perhaps you could explain why the luxury of a private education is not subject to VAT? and why teachers at public schools are entitled to join the STATE subsidised Teachers' Pension Scheme? Scrounging and freeloading is at the very foundation of the public school business.
I never said I was a teacher did I!!!
[quote][p][bold]jeremy radvan[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Tippy Toes[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]true-brightonian[/bold] wrote: @Fight Back, The City of Brighton and Hove, well that is great for them. I am sure you are right, but not everyone can be a plumber or a builder. How many women do you know who are "plumbers, builders, sparkies, roofers and carpenters"? Not many, I expect.[/p][/quote]I have a senior role at an independent school and I don't have a degree. Mr Lahey, I would say that I do have a decent job. When I left school very few people went on to University, but now it seems to be the norm. People just expect to go and for the rest of us to pay for them![/p][/quote]Good heavens! someone who works at a public school complaining about people expecting other people to pay for them. Perhaps you could explain why the luxury of a private education is not subject to VAT? and why teachers at public schools are entitled to join the STATE subsidised Teachers' Pension Scheme? Scrounging and freeloading is at the very foundation of the public school business.[/p][/quote]I never said I was a teacher did I!!! Tippy Toes

3:35pm Wed 24 Nov 10

jeremy radvan says...

Tippy Toes wrote:
jeremy radvan wrote:
Tippy Toes wrote:
true-brightonian wrote:
@Fight Back, The City of Brighton and Hove, well that is great for them. I am sure you are right, but not everyone can be a plumber or a builder. How many women do you know who are "plumbers, builders, sparkies, roofers and carpenters"? Not many, I expect.
I have a senior role at an independent school and I don't have a degree. Mr Lahey, I would say that I do have a decent job. When I left school very few people went on to University, but now it seems to be the norm. People just expect to go and for the rest of us to pay for them!
Good heavens! someone who works at a public school complaining about people expecting other people to pay for them.
Perhaps you could explain why the luxury of a private education is not subject to VAT? and why teachers at public schools are entitled to join the STATE subsidised Teachers' Pension Scheme? Scrounging and freeloading is at the very foundation of the public school business.
I never said I was a teacher did I!!!
If you get someone qualified to read my comment to you then you will see that at no point did I suggest that you are a teacher. Haven't you got some leaves to sweep up.
[quote][p][bold]Tippy Toes[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]jeremy radvan[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Tippy Toes[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]true-brightonian[/bold] wrote: @Fight Back, The City of Brighton and Hove, well that is great for them. I am sure you are right, but not everyone can be a plumber or a builder. How many women do you know who are "plumbers, builders, sparkies, roofers and carpenters"? Not many, I expect.[/p][/quote]I have a senior role at an independent school and I don't have a degree. Mr Lahey, I would say that I do have a decent job. When I left school very few people went on to University, but now it seems to be the norm. People just expect to go and for the rest of us to pay for them![/p][/quote]Good heavens! someone who works at a public school complaining about people expecting other people to pay for them. Perhaps you could explain why the luxury of a private education is not subject to VAT? and why teachers at public schools are entitled to join the STATE subsidised Teachers' Pension Scheme? Scrounging and freeloading is at the very foundation of the public school business.[/p][/quote]I never said I was a teacher did I!!![/p][/quote]If you get someone qualified to read my comment to you then you will see that at no point did I suggest that you are a teacher. Haven't you got some leaves to sweep up. jeremy radvan

3:37pm Wed 24 Nov 10

Greenlover says...

**** on students protect ur education get these evil tories out now b4 its 2late peaceful though bcause were better than that no 2 9000 thats what i sez
**** on students protect ur education get these evil tories out now b4 its 2late peaceful though bcause were better than that no 2 9000 thats what i sez Greenlover

3:45pm Wed 24 Nov 10

Tippy Toes says...

jeremy radvan wrote:
Tippy Toes wrote:
jeremy radvan wrote:
Tippy Toes wrote:
true-brightonian wrote:
@Fight Back, The City of Brighton and Hove, well that is great for them. I am sure you are right, but not everyone can be a plumber or a builder. How many women do you know who are "plumbers, builders, sparkies, roofers and carpenters"? Not many, I expect.
I have a senior role at an independent school and I don't have a degree. Mr Lahey, I would say that I do have a decent job. When I left school very few people went on to University, but now it seems to be the norm. People just expect to go and for the rest of us to pay for them!
Good heavens! someone who works at a public school complaining about people expecting other people to pay for them.
Perhaps you could explain why the luxury of a private education is not subject to VAT? and why teachers at public schools are entitled to join the STATE subsidised Teachers' Pension Scheme? Scrounging and freeloading is at the very foundation of the public school business.
I never said I was a teacher did I!!!
If you get someone qualified to read my comment to you then you will see that at no point did I suggest that you are a teacher. Haven't you got some leaves to sweep up.
Oh I see, so now I am not educated? Is that because I am not a teacher or because I sweep leaves??? What an ignorant idiot you really are. My point was that I didn't go to university but through hard work I have managed to get a decent well paid job. I have never asked anyone else pay for me. I object to students moaning about how hard their life is.
[quote][p][bold]jeremy radvan[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Tippy Toes[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]jeremy radvan[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Tippy Toes[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]true-brightonian[/bold] wrote: @Fight Back, The City of Brighton and Hove, well that is great for them. I am sure you are right, but not everyone can be a plumber or a builder. How many women do you know who are "plumbers, builders, sparkies, roofers and carpenters"? Not many, I expect.[/p][/quote]I have a senior role at an independent school and I don't have a degree. Mr Lahey, I would say that I do have a decent job. When I left school very few people went on to University, but now it seems to be the norm. People just expect to go and for the rest of us to pay for them![/p][/quote]Good heavens! someone who works at a public school complaining about people expecting other people to pay for them. Perhaps you could explain why the luxury of a private education is not subject to VAT? and why teachers at public schools are entitled to join the STATE subsidised Teachers' Pension Scheme? Scrounging and freeloading is at the very foundation of the public school business.[/p][/quote]I never said I was a teacher did I!!![/p][/quote]If you get someone qualified to read my comment to you then you will see that at no point did I suggest that you are a teacher. Haven't you got some leaves to sweep up.[/p][/quote]Oh I see, so now I am not educated? Is that because I am not a teacher or because I sweep leaves??? What an ignorant idiot you really are. My point was that I didn't go to university but through hard work I have managed to get a decent well paid job. I have never asked anyone else pay for me. I object to students moaning about how hard their life is. Tippy Toes

3:48pm Wed 24 Nov 10

heidic1234 says...

Tippy Toes wrote:
true-brightonian wrote:
@Fight Back, The City of Brighton and Hove, well that is great for them. I am sure you are right, but not everyone can be a plumber or a builder. How many women do you know who are "plumbers, builders, sparkies, roofers and carpenters"? Not many, I expect.
I have a senior role at an independent school and I don't have a degree. Mr Lahey, I would say that I do have a decent job. When I left school very few people went on to University, but now it seems to be the norm. People just expect to go and for the rest of us to pay for them!
Aren't you lucky you have gotten yourself a senior job at a PRIVATE school?
Do you realise that you can't get teaching jobs WITHOUT degree's now. Why should only the rich from your independent school get to go on to university? By the way, you aren't actually paying for our degree's WE ARE. Our loans HAVE TO BE PAID BACK!
It must be very nice to be in a secure job like yours, thank your lucky stars you are not a poor working class 18 year old with an ability to become academic!
[quote][p][bold]Tippy Toes[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]true-brightonian[/bold] wrote: @Fight Back, The City of Brighton and Hove, well that is great for them. I am sure you are right, but not everyone can be a plumber or a builder. How many women do you know who are "plumbers, builders, sparkies, roofers and carpenters"? Not many, I expect.[/p][/quote]I have a senior role at an independent school and I don't have a degree. Mr Lahey, I would say that I do have a decent job. When I left school very few people went on to University, but now it seems to be the norm. People just expect to go and for the rest of us to pay for them![/p][/quote]Aren't you lucky you have gotten yourself a senior job at a PRIVATE school? Do you realise that you can't get teaching jobs WITHOUT degree's now. Why should only the rich from your independent school get to go on to university? By the way, you aren't actually paying for our degree's WE ARE. Our loans HAVE TO BE PAID BACK! It must be very nice to be in a secure job like yours, thank your lucky stars you are not a poor working class 18 year old with an ability to become academic! heidic1234

3:51pm Wed 24 Nov 10

Laug says...

LtPaperclip wrote:
I dont care about students and object to having my tax used to fund their education.
I wonder if you will say that in 10 years time when there are no doctors, or teachers, or anyone else who works for the better in society because they quite simply cant afford the ridiculous fees!!
[quote][p][bold]LtPaperclip[/bold] wrote: I dont care about students and object to having my tax used to fund their education.[/p][/quote]I wonder if you will say that in 10 years time when there are no doctors, or teachers, or anyone else who works for the better in society because they quite simply cant afford the ridiculous fees!! Laug

3:52pm Wed 24 Nov 10

Tippy Toes says...

heidic1234 wrote:
Tippy Toes wrote:
true-brightonian wrote:
@Fight Back, The City of Brighton and Hove, well that is great for them. I am sure you are right, but not everyone can be a plumber or a builder. How many women do you know who are "plumbers, builders, sparkies, roofers and carpenters"? Not many, I expect.
I have a senior role at an independent school and I don't have a degree. Mr Lahey, I would say that I do have a decent job. When I left school very few people went on to University, but now it seems to be the norm. People just expect to go and for the rest of us to pay for them!
Aren't you lucky you have gotten yourself a senior job at a PRIVATE school?
Do you realise that you can't get teaching jobs WITHOUT degree's now. Why should only the rich from your independent school get to go on to university? By the way, you aren't actually paying for our degree's WE ARE. Our loans HAVE TO BE PAID BACK!
It must be very nice to be in a secure job like yours, thank your lucky stars you are not a poor working class 18 year old with an ability to become academic!
So you assume that I am not working class because I happen to work at a private school? You have no idea what background I come from do you? And yes I do thank my lucky stars that through 20 years of hard work I have a decent job!!!
[quote][p][bold]heidic1234[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Tippy Toes[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]true-brightonian[/bold] wrote: @Fight Back, The City of Brighton and Hove, well that is great for them. I am sure you are right, but not everyone can be a plumber or a builder. How many women do you know who are "plumbers, builders, sparkies, roofers and carpenters"? Not many, I expect.[/p][/quote]I have a senior role at an independent school and I don't have a degree. Mr Lahey, I would say that I do have a decent job. When I left school very few people went on to University, but now it seems to be the norm. People just expect to go and for the rest of us to pay for them![/p][/quote]Aren't you lucky you have gotten yourself a senior job at a PRIVATE school? Do you realise that you can't get teaching jobs WITHOUT degree's now. Why should only the rich from your independent school get to go on to university? By the way, you aren't actually paying for our degree's WE ARE. Our loans HAVE TO BE PAID BACK! It must be very nice to be in a secure job like yours, thank your lucky stars you are not a poor working class 18 year old with an ability to become academic![/p][/quote]So you assume that I am not working class because I happen to work at a private school? You have no idea what background I come from do you? And yes I do thank my lucky stars that through 20 years of hard work I have a decent job!!! Tippy Toes

3:55pm Wed 24 Nov 10

jeremy radvan says...

Tippy Toes wrote:
jeremy radvan wrote:
Tippy Toes wrote:
jeremy radvan wrote:
Tippy Toes wrote:
true-brightonian wrote:
@Fight Back, The City of Brighton and Hove, well that is great for them. I am sure you are right, but not everyone can be a plumber or a builder. How many women do you know who are "plumbers, builders, sparkies, roofers and carpenters"? Not many, I expect.
I have a senior role at an independent school and I don't have a degree. Mr Lahey, I would say that I do have a decent job. When I left school very few people went on to University, but now it seems to be the norm. People just expect to go and for the rest of us to pay for them!
Good heavens! someone who works at a public school complaining about people expecting other people to pay for them.
Perhaps you could explain why the luxury of a private education is not subject to VAT? and why teachers at public schools are entitled to join the STATE subsidised Teachers' Pension Scheme? Scrounging and freeloading is at the very foundation of the public school business.
I never said I was a teacher did I!!!
If you get someone qualified to read my comment to you then you will see that at no point did I suggest that you are a teacher. Haven't you got some leaves to sweep up.
Oh I see, so now I am not educated? Is that because I am not a teacher or because I sweep leaves??? What an ignorant idiot you really are. My point was that I didn't go to university but through hard work I have managed to get a decent well paid job. I have never asked anyone else pay for me. I object to students moaning about how hard their life is.
I am sorry to have touched a nerve. But you have not read my comments carefully enough. My point is that by working in a public school you ask the rest of us to pay for you every day. The public school business model is entirely dependent on state subsidy.
[quote][p][bold]Tippy Toes[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]jeremy radvan[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Tippy Toes[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]jeremy radvan[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Tippy Toes[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]true-brightonian[/bold] wrote: @Fight Back, The City of Brighton and Hove, well that is great for them. I am sure you are right, but not everyone can be a plumber or a builder. How many women do you know who are "plumbers, builders, sparkies, roofers and carpenters"? Not many, I expect.[/p][/quote]I have a senior role at an independent school and I don't have a degree. Mr Lahey, I would say that I do have a decent job. When I left school very few people went on to University, but now it seems to be the norm. People just expect to go and for the rest of us to pay for them![/p][/quote]Good heavens! someone who works at a public school complaining about people expecting other people to pay for them. Perhaps you could explain why the luxury of a private education is not subject to VAT? and why teachers at public schools are entitled to join the STATE subsidised Teachers' Pension Scheme? Scrounging and freeloading is at the very foundation of the public school business.[/p][/quote]I never said I was a teacher did I!!![/p][/quote]If you get someone qualified to read my comment to you then you will see that at no point did I suggest that you are a teacher. Haven't you got some leaves to sweep up.[/p][/quote]Oh I see, so now I am not educated? Is that because I am not a teacher or because I sweep leaves??? What an ignorant idiot you really are. My point was that I didn't go to university but through hard work I have managed to get a decent well paid job. I have never asked anyone else pay for me. I object to students moaning about how hard their life is.[/p][/quote]I am sorry to have touched a nerve. But you have not read my comments carefully enough. My point is that by working in a public school you ask the rest of us to pay for you every day. The public school business model is entirely dependent on state subsidy. jeremy radvan

3:56pm Wed 24 Nov 10

toldsloth says...

blesshim wrote:
Teachers at Portslade Community College are actively encouraging their 5th form students skip this afternoon's lessons to join the march
Then they should be reprimanded.

Look, we cannot afford to go on as we are. Once you've graduated and got a job you will not even notice the repayments on the loan. It is the cheapest money you will ever get. I know students who used theirs to buy cars for crying out loud!

Stop moaning and knuckle down to some study
[quote][p][bold]blesshim[/bold] wrote: Teachers at Portslade Community College are actively encouraging their 5th form students skip this afternoon's lessons to join the march[/p][/quote]Then they should be reprimanded. Look, we cannot afford to go on as we are. Once you've graduated and got a job you will not even notice the repayments on the loan. It is the cheapest money you will ever get. I know students who used theirs to buy cars for crying out loud! Stop moaning and knuckle down to some study toldsloth

3:57pm Wed 24 Nov 10

toldsloth says...

Then they should be reprimanded.

Look, we cannot afford to go on as we are. Once you've graduated and got a job you will not even notice the repayments on the loan. It is the cheapest money you will ever get. I know students who used theirs to buy cars for crying out loud!

Stop moaning and knuckle down to some study
Then they should be reprimanded. Look, we cannot afford to go on as we are. Once you've graduated and got a job you will not even notice the repayments on the loan. It is the cheapest money you will ever get. I know students who used theirs to buy cars for crying out loud! Stop moaning and knuckle down to some study toldsloth

4:02pm Wed 24 Nov 10

Ivory Tower says...

We do like to patronise and nurse-maid the poor little dears, don't we?
Let them march with their cutely misguided impressions that this will somehow change the world, whilst we watch from our uneducated but warm and paid offices.
We do like to patronise and nurse-maid the poor little dears, don't we? Let them march with their cutely misguided impressions that this will somehow change the world, whilst we watch from our uneducated but warm and paid offices. Ivory Tower

4:12pm Wed 24 Nov 10

Laug says...

toldsloth wrote:
Then they should be reprimanded. Look, we cannot afford to go on as we are. Once you've graduated and got a job you will not even notice the repayments on the loan. It is the cheapest money you will ever get. I know students who used theirs to buy cars for crying out loud! Stop moaning and knuckle down to some study
I understand your point, and yes student loans are barely noticeable NOW, but add an extra £6,000 per year of study... are you really suggesting that these people should be in debt for all of their career??
[quote][p][bold]toldsloth[/bold] wrote: Then they should be reprimanded. Look, we cannot afford to go on as we are. Once you've graduated and got a job you will not even notice the repayments on the loan. It is the cheapest money you will ever get. I know students who used theirs to buy cars for crying out loud! Stop moaning and knuckle down to some study[/p][/quote]I understand your point, and yes student loans are barely noticeable NOW, but add an extra £6,000 per year of study... are you really suggesting that these people should be in debt for all of their career?? Laug

4:19pm Wed 24 Nov 10

Tea break says...

Why all the student bashing on here today? There's nothing wrong with people protesting for an injustice passed down by the goverment. It's about time someone did!
.
When was the last time people in this country stood up for what they believe in rather than muttering about it to anyone who'll listen in the pub? No, it might not change the world or the financial situation in the UK but, at least it's showing this government that we won't lay down and take all the cr*p they throw at us without a second thought.
.
The students in this country will be the ones who are leading and shaping the country in the next 10-40 years so why would we want the majority of them to be uneducated? That's not to say that everyone has to go to university, they don't. But last time I checked you are unable to become a doctor, lawyer, teacher, etc without one and with a lack of skilled people in these professions we're going to be in trouble in later down the line. To all of you on here today that aren't bothered about what students get up to or whether they start they're lives saddled with thousands of pounds worth of debt, maybe you need to look at the bigger picture and realise that these people are the doctors and teachers that are going to look after you and your children in the future.
Why all the student bashing on here today? There's nothing wrong with people protesting for an injustice passed down by the goverment. It's about time someone did! . When was the last time people in this country stood up for what they believe in rather than muttering about it to anyone who'll listen in the pub? No, it might not change the world or the financial situation in the UK but, at least it's showing this government that we won't lay down and take all the cr*p they throw at us without a second thought. . The students in this country will be the ones who are leading and shaping the country in the next 10-40 years so why would we want the majority of them to be uneducated? That's not to say that everyone has to go to university, they don't. But last time I checked you are unable to become a doctor, lawyer, teacher, etc without one and with a lack of skilled people in these professions we're going to be in trouble in later down the line. To all of you on here today that aren't bothered about what students get up to or whether they start they're lives saddled with thousands of pounds worth of debt, maybe you need to look at the bigger picture and realise that these people are the doctors and teachers that are going to look after you and your children in the future. Tea break

4:25pm Wed 24 Nov 10

Lible says...

Newman got police at the gates so students couldnt get out LOL :L
Newman got police at the gates so students couldnt get out LOL :L Lible

4:28pm Wed 24 Nov 10

Patrick Mustard says...

I have just been down to town to take a look at this and there are hundreds of schoolchildren in uniform with 'fxxx fees' written on their faces, shouting 'pigs' at the coppers on duty; a lot of what do actually look like university students and then loads of idiots on the parameters with scarves over their faces, running around looking for trouble and getting into the police officers' faces in the usual and predictably aggressive manner.

If you took away the people who are there to climb on roofs and goad the police and the kids who have no comprehension of why they are there, there would be perhaps a hundred genuine protestors
I have just been down to town to take a look at this and there are hundreds of schoolchildren in uniform with 'fxxx fees' written on their faces, shouting 'pigs' at the coppers on duty; a lot of what do actually look like university students and then loads of idiots on the parameters with scarves over their faces, running around looking for trouble and getting into the police officers' faces in the usual and predictably aggressive manner. If you took away the people who are there to climb on roofs and goad the police and the kids who have no comprehension of why they are there, there would be perhaps a hundred genuine protestors Patrick Mustard

4:34pm Wed 24 Nov 10

LawStudent says...

I applaud Tea Break as he is obviously the only person on this forum who is bothered enough to see the bigger picture. Students in year 9, 10 and 11 will lose momentum to achieve as they know for a fact they will no longer have the opportunity to become a doctor or lawyer etc. So referring to someone’s earlier comment on how students are a drain on the tax payer, how do you think that’s going to change when students don’t go to university, can’t find jobs because of lack of qualifications, and rely on job seeker’s allowance and take even more of your hard earned money? I certainly want the opportunity to become successful in my chosen field; law, and definitely can’t achieve that without a university degree. What most annoys me is the fact that people who have jobs and earn a living for themselves and their families today, don’t realise how hard it is in this current climate to get a job. Yes it is good you have a job and you can afford to be judgmental, but what about the students who are just starting out, who have nothing and you aren’t helping them and the government aren’t helping them, by rising university prices and making the opportunity to better yourself less available to any student, because who says someone who can afford these fees deserves the education more than someone who can’t?
I applaud Tea Break as he is obviously the only person on this forum who is bothered enough to see the bigger picture. Students in year 9, 10 and 11 will lose momentum to achieve as they know for a fact they will no longer have the opportunity to become a doctor or lawyer etc. So referring to someone’s earlier comment on how students are a drain on the tax payer, how do you think that’s going to change when students don’t go to university, can’t find jobs because of lack of qualifications, and rely on job seeker’s allowance and take even more of your hard earned money? I certainly want the opportunity to become successful in my chosen field; law, and definitely can’t achieve that without a university degree. What most annoys me is the fact that people who have jobs and earn a living for themselves and their families today, don’t realise how hard it is in this current climate to get a job. Yes it is good you have a job and you can afford to be judgmental, but what about the students who are just starting out, who have nothing and you aren’t helping them and the government aren’t helping them, by rising university prices and making the opportunity to better yourself less available to any student, because who says someone who can afford these fees deserves the education more than someone who can’t? LawStudent

4:47pm Wed 24 Nov 10

waspexile says...

LawStudent wrote:
I applaud Tea Break as he is obviously the only person on this forum who is bothered enough to see the bigger picture. Students in year 9, 10 and 11 will lose momentum to achieve as they know for a fact they will no longer have the opportunity to become a doctor or lawyer etc. So referring to someone’s earlier comment on how students are a drain on the tax payer, how do you think that’s going to change when students don’t go to university, can’t find jobs because of lack of qualifications, and rely on job seeker’s allowance and take even more of your hard earned money? I certainly want the opportunity to become successful in my chosen field; law, and definitely can’t achieve that without a university degree. What most annoys me is the fact that people who have jobs and earn a living for themselves and their families today, don’t realise how hard it is in this current climate to get a job. Yes it is good you have a job and you can afford to be judgmental, but what about the students who are just starting out, who have nothing and you aren’t helping them and the government aren’t helping them, by rising university prices and making the opportunity to better yourself less available to any student, because who says someone who can afford these fees deserves the education more than someone who can’t?
"see the bigger picture"?
Well thats the whole problem. We have to find a way of doing the same (or more) with less money.
Tuition fees are one way - which a lot of people dont like.
But there're WILL be less people at Uni, on compacted courses (?), costing more money. Bright people do need to get the opportunity for a degree that has HALF A CHANCE OF GETTING A JOB.
The "bigger issue" also includes forthcoming MASSIVE INCREASES in health and old age care. We have an ageing population, who also vote, and worry about their old age care. these people also vote - and they're are more and more of them over 60.
Its vital that further education exists for research, and to educate fulltime, the professionals and managers of tomorrow. I'm not sure we can afford, or enough people will vote for, university to be used for any more than that in my lifetime.

On another note, any bloody kids in school uniform in that protest under 16 should be herded up, put in a big cold hall for 2 hours and then sent home!
[quote][p][bold]LawStudent[/bold] wrote: I applaud Tea Break as he is obviously the only person on this forum who is bothered enough to see the bigger picture. Students in year 9, 10 and 11 will lose momentum to achieve as they know for a fact they will no longer have the opportunity to become a doctor or lawyer etc. So referring to someone’s earlier comment on how students are a drain on the tax payer, how do you think that’s going to change when students don’t go to university, can’t find jobs because of lack of qualifications, and rely on job seeker’s allowance and take even more of your hard earned money? I certainly want the opportunity to become successful in my chosen field; law, and definitely can’t achieve that without a university degree. What most annoys me is the fact that people who have jobs and earn a living for themselves and their families today, don’t realise how hard it is in this current climate to get a job. Yes it is good you have a job and you can afford to be judgmental, but what about the students who are just starting out, who have nothing and you aren’t helping them and the government aren’t helping them, by rising university prices and making the opportunity to better yourself less available to any student, because who says someone who can afford these fees deserves the education more than someone who can’t?[/p][/quote]"see the bigger picture"? Well thats the whole problem. We have to find a way of doing the same (or more) with less money. Tuition fees are one way - which a lot of people dont like. But there're WILL be less people at Uni, on compacted courses (?), costing more money. Bright people do need to get the opportunity for a degree that has HALF A CHANCE OF GETTING A JOB. The "bigger issue" also includes forthcoming MASSIVE INCREASES in health and old age care. We have an ageing population, who also vote, and worry about their old age care. these people also vote - and they're are more and more of them over 60. Its vital that further education exists for research, and to educate fulltime, the professionals and managers of tomorrow. I'm not sure we can afford, or enough people will vote for, university to be used for any more than that in my lifetime. On another note, any bloody kids in school uniform in that protest under 16 should be herded up, put in a big cold hall for 2 hours and then sent home! waspexile

4:52pm Wed 24 Nov 10

brunswick63 says...

Had to laugh at the banner currently flying outside the window of the middle flat of 19 Brunswick Place; "Brunswick Place Is A Student Street We have A Human Right To Get Degrees". Pretty much demonstrates the mind-boggling intellect of todays students...
Had to laugh at the banner currently flying outside the window of the middle flat of 19 Brunswick Place; "Brunswick Place Is A Student Street We have A Human Right To Get Degrees". Pretty much demonstrates the mind-boggling intellect of todays students... brunswick63

4:54pm Wed 24 Nov 10

Ballroom Blitz says...

Well, yet another 'peaceful' Brighton protest ends up being taken over by the anarchist element that attends all such events in our city.
It's the 'same old, same old'.
The marchers may have a valid point to make, but in the end all anyone will remember is that they decided yet again to have a ruck with the police.
Hardly grown up or helping to put your point across.
Contrast with the public workers demo a couple of weekends ago where there was no trouble at all, and they made their point far more powerfully, and with dignity.
I'm fed up with mob rule, and rabble taking over our streets.
It proves nothing except your stupidity and immaturity, and makes me think that having to pay more for your uni education is nothing but a good thing. Maybe you'll appreciate it more.
Well, yet another 'peaceful' Brighton protest ends up being taken over by the anarchist element that attends all such events in our city. It's the 'same old, same old'. The marchers may have a valid point to make, but in the end all anyone will remember is that they decided yet again to have a ruck with the police. Hardly grown up or helping to put your point across. Contrast with the public workers demo a couple of weekends ago where there was no trouble at all, and they made their point far more powerfully, and with dignity. I'm fed up with mob rule, and rabble taking over our streets. It proves nothing except your stupidity and immaturity, and makes me think that having to pay more for your uni education is nothing but a good thing. Maybe you'll appreciate it more. Ballroom Blitz

4:59pm Wed 24 Nov 10

Colin Houlson says...

LtPaperclip wrote:
I dont care about students and object to having my tax used to fund their education.
Jaffa.
[quote][p][bold]LtPaperclip[/bold] wrote: I dont care about students and object to having my tax used to fund their education.[/p][/quote]Jaffa. Colin Houlson

5:01pm Wed 24 Nov 10

Fight Back says...

LawStudent wrote:
I applaud Tea Break as he is obviously the only person on this forum who is bothered enough to see the bigger picture. Students in year 9, 10 and 11 will lose momentum to achieve as they know for a fact they will no longer have the opportunity to become a doctor or lawyer etc. So referring to someone’s earlier comment on how students are a drain on the tax payer, how do you think that’s going to change when students don’t go to university, can’t find jobs because of lack of qualifications, and rely on job seeker’s allowance and take even more of your hard earned money? I certainly want the opportunity to become successful in my chosen field; law, and definitely can’t achieve that without a university degree. What most annoys me is the fact that people who have jobs and earn a living for themselves and their families today, don’t realise how hard it is in this current climate to get a job. Yes it is good you have a job and you can afford to be judgmental, but what about the students who are just starting out, who have nothing and you aren’t helping them and the government aren’t helping them, by rising university prices and making the opportunity to better yourself less available to any student, because who says someone who can afford these fees deserves the education more than someone who can’t?
As I made the comment on Uni students being a drain I'll answer you.

A majority of students now leave Uni and end up in either in low paid jobs or on the dole. So those in low paid jobs are a drain because they aren't paying back their fees and those on the dole are a double drain.

The answer is to make Unis exclusive to the best students again - not open them up to any man and his dog. I often interview people for positions and it's remarkable how awful the CV often is from degree holders. I've got fed up with degree holding students EXPECTING to get the job so now don't interview them - I look for experience rather than qualifications.

To the idiot that thinks he understands the private education sector - private schools that register as charities get tax relief because they are CHARITIES. They don't get direct subs from the state. Every penny they need to run the school they have to raise in fees or fund raising. All of them also make bursaries available to talented children that can't afford the fees. If the people who send their children to private schools didn't the state education would required considerably more funding than it does now. Your comments against a private education smack of envy rather than an intelligent understanding.
[quote][p][bold]LawStudent[/bold] wrote: I applaud Tea Break as he is obviously the only person on this forum who is bothered enough to see the bigger picture. Students in year 9, 10 and 11 will lose momentum to achieve as they know for a fact they will no longer have the opportunity to become a doctor or lawyer etc. So referring to someone’s earlier comment on how students are a drain on the tax payer, how do you think that’s going to change when students don’t go to university, can’t find jobs because of lack of qualifications, and rely on job seeker’s allowance and take even more of your hard earned money? I certainly want the opportunity to become successful in my chosen field; law, and definitely can’t achieve that without a university degree. What most annoys me is the fact that people who have jobs and earn a living for themselves and their families today, don’t realise how hard it is in this current climate to get a job. Yes it is good you have a job and you can afford to be judgmental, but what about the students who are just starting out, who have nothing and you aren’t helping them and the government aren’t helping them, by rising university prices and making the opportunity to better yourself less available to any student, because who says someone who can afford these fees deserves the education more than someone who can’t?[/p][/quote]As I made the comment on Uni students being a drain I'll answer you. A majority of students now leave Uni and end up in either in low paid jobs or on the dole. So those in low paid jobs are a drain because they aren't paying back their fees and those on the dole are a double drain. The answer is to make Unis exclusive to the best students again - not open them up to any man and his dog. I often interview people for positions and it's remarkable how awful the CV often is from degree holders. I've got fed up with degree holding students EXPECTING to get the job so now don't interview them - I look for experience rather than qualifications. To the idiot that thinks he understands the private education sector - private schools that register as charities get tax relief because they are CHARITIES. They don't get direct subs from the state. Every penny they need to run the school they have to raise in fees or fund raising. All of them also make bursaries available to talented children that can't afford the fees. If the people who send their children to private schools didn't the state education would required considerably more funding than it does now. Your comments against a private education smack of envy rather than an intelligent understanding. Fight Back

5:05pm Wed 24 Nov 10

Colin Houlson says...

Lt Paperclip, one of the benefits of education is knowing the difference between 'there' and 'their'.
Lt Paperclip, one of the benefits of education is knowing the difference between 'there' and 'their'. Colin Houlson

5:06pm Wed 24 Nov 10

Skippah says...

LtPaperclip wrote:
Skippah wrote:
The whole reason we can no longer fund and subsidise all these students is because of the idea that was pushed on us that everybody had the right to go to university. Had we just stuck with putting the best of the best, regardless of their background, into university we could afford to fund them all fully. . The majority of the people protesting are only at university because we ignored our ability to fund them via tax money, now they are being told to pay (only once they are earning £21k, mind you) for their educations, they don't like it. . Still, they aren't happy and have the right to protest, and I support that fully. Whilst not agreeing with them, they are doing what they think is right, so good on them!
I dont even agree with them having the right to protest. What right do the schools have to allow there pupils to leave school and go out on a march ??????? which parents gave permission for that ? The secondary schools that let children out of school should be prosecuted.
It's their future and if they want to protest. Let them. At least they're sticking up for what they believe in.
.
So what if they miss a day of school?! And I doubt any school "let" them go. They just went, It was never hard when I was at school to just go out, I doubt that has changed in a matter of 6 years.
[quote][p][bold]LtPaperclip[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Skippah[/bold] wrote: The whole reason we can no longer fund and subsidise all these students is because of the idea that was pushed on us that everybody had the right to go to university. Had we just stuck with putting the best of the best, regardless of their background, into university we could afford to fund them all fully. . The majority of the people protesting are only at university because we ignored our ability to fund them via tax money, now they are being told to pay (only once they are earning £21k, mind you) for their educations, they don't like it. . Still, they aren't happy and have the right to protest, and I support that fully. Whilst not agreeing with them, they are doing what they think is right, so good on them![/p][/quote]I dont even agree with them having the right to protest. What right do the schools have to allow there pupils to leave school and go out on a march ??????? which parents gave permission for that ? The secondary schools that let children out of school should be prosecuted.[/p][/quote]It's their future and if they want to protest. Let them. At least they're sticking up for what they believe in. . So what if they miss a day of school?! And I doubt any school "let" them go. They just went, It was never hard when I was at school to just go out, I doubt that has changed in a matter of 6 years. Skippah

5:08pm Wed 24 Nov 10

Joeinbrighton says...

There is a lot of stereotyping in the above comments which I do not feel helps anyone in this situation. You should not tar everyone with the same brush.

For what it is worth, as someone who graduated getting on for a decade ago now in what was a generalist degree subject, I sympathise for students who are constantly fed information via the media and via Careers Advisors in schools and college that university is an essential pre-requisite for them, in order to carve out a career.

Whilst this is undoubtedly true in a good number of professions, a lot of the over-subscribed generalist type degrees often do not automatically path the way to a pot of gold at the rainbow's end that some well meaning folk sometimes tell them.

The simple fact of the matter is that the previous Government's objective to have 50 per cent of the population at any one time be degree educated was a fanciful notion. This resulted in courses at university becoming over-subscribed and university clearance systems becoming more relaxed, resulting in more students going to university who were not prepared for the level of study required at degree level, or who got on to courses even where their A level grades in relevant subjects were not of a high standard.

What needs to happen is that where staying in the education system is not the best option, more support needs to be provided in getting a foot on the career ladder another way. Giving people who are less academically minded but more skilled at practical or manual tasks the opportunity to undertake an apprenticeship in a trade, such as plumbing, building or as an electrician should be encouraged. Also, support people wanting to set up their own business with some guidance on putting together a business plan, which they will need when approaching a bank. I know people that did not achieve academically but have done very well through setting up their own business having learnt a trade.

People tend to be quite chipper where students are concerned, but ultimately, we should want the university system in this country to facilitate learning and be the seed-bed for people that shape the future direction of the country. What concerns me is that the cost of going to university could be prohibitive for many intelligent people who do not come from an affluent background. I was fortunate enough to go to university at a time before tuition fees were introduced in their present form and when student grants were still available. If I was of fresher age now, I do not think I would be able to go to university.

So while I very much agree that the quantity of people going to university is too high, do not automatically think that increased tuition fees will mean that only the cream of the crop will go to university to study from now on. What is more likely is that universities will return to being more of an exclusive club, where only those who have a wealthy benefactor can complete their degrees.

There is already a trend developing where more undergraduates are studying at universities where they can still live at home rather than live in halls of residence or in an independent living arrangement, which while understandable in the current climate of austerity, also means that more students will miss out on one of the pleasurable aspects of university life.

A university education is what you make it. There are those to whom university is one long party, although generally speaking, these are also the people most likely to drop out of university. For the rest, it is an invaluable experience to prepare them adequately for a future in their preferred career and also the opportunity to meet some people who will be friends for life.

It is an unfortunate state of affairs that people who will have worked hard for 4 years to obtain a degree, sometimes holding down 1 or 2 part-time jobs as well as spending a lot of spare time studying, reading the text books that do not come cheap in order to prepare themselves for their final exams, will get a job they desire but then see most of their earnings for their first several years of gainful employment be spent on paying off student debts. This particular bombshell is not advertised by the Careers Advisors or the UCAS handbooks.
There is a lot of stereotyping in the above comments which I do not feel helps anyone in this situation. You should not tar everyone with the same brush. For what it is worth, as someone who graduated getting on for a decade ago now in what was a generalist degree subject, I sympathise for students who are constantly fed information via the media and via Careers Advisors in schools and college that university is an essential pre-requisite for them, in order to carve out a career. Whilst this is undoubtedly true in a good number of professions, a lot of the over-subscribed generalist type degrees often do not automatically path the way to a pot of gold at the rainbow's end that some well meaning folk sometimes tell them. The simple fact of the matter is that the previous Government's objective to have 50 per cent of the population at any one time be degree educated was a fanciful notion. This resulted in courses at university becoming over-subscribed and university clearance systems becoming more relaxed, resulting in more students going to university who were not prepared for the level of study required at degree level, or who got on to courses even where their A level grades in relevant subjects were not of a high standard. What needs to happen is that where staying in the education system is not the best option, more support needs to be provided in getting a foot on the career ladder another way. Giving people who are less academically minded but more skilled at practical or manual tasks the opportunity to undertake an apprenticeship in a trade, such as plumbing, building or as an electrician should be encouraged. Also, support people wanting to set up their own business with some guidance on putting together a business plan, which they will need when approaching a bank. I know people that did not achieve academically but have done very well through setting up their own business having learnt a trade. People tend to be quite chipper where students are concerned, but ultimately, we should want the university system in this country to facilitate learning and be the seed-bed for people that shape the future direction of the country. What concerns me is that the cost of going to university could be prohibitive for many intelligent people who do not come from an affluent background. I was fortunate enough to go to university at a time before tuition fees were introduced in their present form and when student grants were still available. If I was of fresher age now, I do not think I would be able to go to university. So while I very much agree that the quantity of people going to university is too high, do not automatically think that increased tuition fees will mean that only the cream of the crop will go to university to study from now on. What is more likely is that universities will return to being more of an exclusive club, where only those who have a wealthy benefactor can complete their degrees. There is already a trend developing where more undergraduates are studying at universities where they can still live at home rather than live in halls of residence or in an independent living arrangement, which while understandable in the current climate of austerity, also means that more students will miss out on one of the pleasurable aspects of university life. A university education is what you make it. There are those to whom university is one long party, although generally speaking, these are also the people most likely to drop out of university. For the rest, it is an invaluable experience to prepare them adequately for a future in their preferred career and also the opportunity to meet some people who will be friends for life. It is an unfortunate state of affairs that people who will have worked hard for 4 years to obtain a degree, sometimes holding down 1 or 2 part-time jobs as well as spending a lot of spare time studying, reading the text books that do not come cheap in order to prepare themselves for their final exams, will get a job they desire but then see most of their earnings for their first several years of gainful employment be spent on paying off student debts. This particular bombshell is not advertised by the Careers Advisors or the UCAS handbooks. Joeinbrighton

5:09pm Wed 24 Nov 10

Tea break says...

Fight Back wrote:
LawStudent wrote:
I applaud Tea Break as he is obviously the only person on this forum who is bothered enough to see the bigger picture. Students in year 9, 10 and 11 will lose momentum to achieve as they know for a fact they will no longer have the opportunity to become a doctor or lawyer etc. So referring to someone’s earlier comment on how students are a drain on the tax payer, how do you think that’s going to change when students don’t go to university, can’t find jobs because of lack of qualifications, and rely on job seeker’s allowance and take even more of your hard earned money? I certainly want the opportunity to become successful in my chosen field; law, and definitely can’t achieve that without a university degree. What most annoys me is the fact that people who have jobs and earn a living for themselves and their families today, don’t realise how hard it is in this current climate to get a job. Yes it is good you have a job and you can afford to be judgmental, but what about the students who are just starting out, who have nothing and you aren’t helping them and the government aren’t helping them, by rising university prices and making the opportunity to better yourself less available to any student, because who says someone who can afford these fees deserves the education more than someone who can’t?
As I made the comment on Uni students being a drain I'll answer you.

A majority of students now leave Uni and end up in either in low paid jobs or on the dole. So those in low paid jobs are a drain because they aren't paying back their fees and those on the dole are a double drain.

The answer is to make Unis exclusive to the best students again - not open them up to any man and his dog. I often interview people for positions and it's remarkable how awful the CV often is from degree holders. I've got fed up with degree holding students EXPECTING to get the job so now don't interview them - I look for experience rather than qualifications.

To the idiot that thinks he understands the private education sector - private schools that register as charities get tax relief because they are CHARITIES. They don't get direct subs from the state. Every penny they need to run the school they have to raise in fees or fund raising. All of them also make bursaries available to talented children that can't afford the fees. If the people who send their children to private schools didn't the state education would required considerably more funding than it does now. Your comments against a private education smack of envy rather than an intelligent understanding.
So you actively discriminate against people holding at degree looking for employment at your organisation? I'm sure your boss would be pleased to hear that rather than recruiting the best person for the job, irrespective of whether they hold a degree or not, you're filtering the CVs based on your personal opinion.
[quote][p][bold]Fight Back[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]LawStudent[/bold] wrote: I applaud Tea Break as he is obviously the only person on this forum who is bothered enough to see the bigger picture. Students in year 9, 10 and 11 will lose momentum to achieve as they know for a fact they will no longer have the opportunity to become a doctor or lawyer etc. So referring to someone’s earlier comment on how students are a drain on the tax payer, how do you think that’s going to change when students don’t go to university, can’t find jobs because of lack of qualifications, and rely on job seeker’s allowance and take even more of your hard earned money? I certainly want the opportunity to become successful in my chosen field; law, and definitely can’t achieve that without a university degree. What most annoys me is the fact that people who have jobs and earn a living for themselves and their families today, don’t realise how hard it is in this current climate to get a job. Yes it is good you have a job and you can afford to be judgmental, but what about the students who are just starting out, who have nothing and you aren’t helping them and the government aren’t helping them, by rising university prices and making the opportunity to better yourself less available to any student, because who says someone who can afford these fees deserves the education more than someone who can’t?[/p][/quote]As I made the comment on Uni students being a drain I'll answer you. A majority of students now leave Uni and end up in either in low paid jobs or on the dole. So those in low paid jobs are a drain because they aren't paying back their fees and those on the dole are a double drain. The answer is to make Unis exclusive to the best students again - not open them up to any man and his dog. I often interview people for positions and it's remarkable how awful the CV often is from degree holders. I've got fed up with degree holding students EXPECTING to get the job so now don't interview them - I look for experience rather than qualifications. To the idiot that thinks he understands the private education sector - private schools that register as charities get tax relief because they are CHARITIES. They don't get direct subs from the state. Every penny they need to run the school they have to raise in fees or fund raising. All of them also make bursaries available to talented children that can't afford the fees. If the people who send their children to private schools didn't the state education would required considerably more funding than it does now. Your comments against a private education smack of envy rather than an intelligent understanding.[/p][/quote]So you actively discriminate against people holding at degree looking for employment at your organisation? I'm sure your boss would be pleased to hear that rather than recruiting the best person for the job, irrespective of whether they hold a degree or not, you're filtering the CVs based on your personal opinion. Tea break

5:10pm Wed 24 Nov 10

Colin Houlson says...

Ballroom Blitz wrote:
Well, yet another 'peaceful' Brighton protest ends up being taken over by the anarchist element that attends all such events in our city.
It's the 'same old, same old'.
The marchers may have a valid point to make, but in the end all anyone will remember is that they decided yet again to have a ruck with the police.
Hardly grown up or helping to put your point across.
Contrast with the public workers demo a couple of weekends ago where there was no trouble at all, and they made their point far more powerfully, and with dignity.
I'm fed up with mob rule, and rabble taking over our streets.
It proves nothing except your stupidity and immaturity, and makes me think that having to pay more for your uni education is nothing but a good thing. Maybe you'll appreciate it more.
Just for a moment there I thought you said Scrabble was taking over the streets. By the way, you're talking a four-letter word starting with S.
[quote][p][bold]Ballroom Blitz[/bold] wrote: Well, yet another 'peaceful' Brighton protest ends up being taken over by the anarchist element that attends all such events in our city. It's the 'same old, same old'. The marchers may have a valid point to make, but in the end all anyone will remember is that they decided yet again to have a ruck with the police. Hardly grown up or helping to put your point across. Contrast with the public workers demo a couple of weekends ago where there was no trouble at all, and they made their point far more powerfully, and with dignity. I'm fed up with mob rule, and rabble taking over our streets. It proves nothing except your stupidity and immaturity, and makes me think that having to pay more for your uni education is nothing but a good thing. Maybe you'll appreciate it more.[/p][/quote]Just for a moment there I thought you said Scrabble was taking over the streets. By the way, you're talking a four-letter word starting with S. Colin Houlson

5:12pm Wed 24 Nov 10

waspexile says...

brunswick63 wrote:
Had to laugh at the banner currently flying outside the window of the middle flat of 19 Brunswick Place; "Brunswick Place Is A Student Street We have A Human Right To Get Degrees". Pretty much demonstrates the mind-boggling intellect of todays students...
Here here! What the hell does that mean??
Degrees of Ignorance perhaps?
Do I have a Human Right to happiness, or a car? or a job?
No.
[quote][p][bold]brunswick63[/bold] wrote: Had to laugh at the banner currently flying outside the window of the middle flat of 19 Brunswick Place; "Brunswick Place Is A Student Street We have A Human Right To Get Degrees". Pretty much demonstrates the mind-boggling intellect of todays students...[/p][/quote]Here here! What the hell does that mean?? Degrees of Ignorance perhaps? Do I have a Human Right to happiness, or a car? or a job? No. waspexile

5:20pm Wed 24 Nov 10

Colin Houlson says...

LtPaperclip wrote:
commentisfree wrote:
LtPaperclip wrote:
commentisfree wrote: Why do you all think it is only about cuts in University education?
You wait until next year when all the new taxes and cuts take effect. You better get in line at the soup kitchens or you will be going hungry . There are no free rides in life...Students should get part time jobs to pay for extra education and not see free goverment cash as there right.
Aw bless, you really don't understand, do you? These cuts are about the Government removing all state support, and not just from students. Students do need to support themselves to an extent - we all have to. But not to the point where only the wealthy can succeed. Smelling that coffee yet?
awww bless , you really think you can intimidate me ? ha ha....any way as i am not entitled to any goverment benifits any way i dont see why i should care tbh, are the wealthy not already in the secceeded club ?

No one has told me yet why my tax should be used to pay for a adults education ?
Perhaps you should put some of your precious tax to good use and get 'a adult education'.
[quote][p][bold]LtPaperclip[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]commentisfree[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]LtPaperclip[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]commentisfree[/bold] wrote: Why do you all think it is only about cuts in University education?[/p][/quote]You wait until next year when all the new taxes and cuts take effect. You better get in line at the soup kitchens or you will be going hungry . There are no free rides in life...Students should get part time jobs to pay for extra education and not see free goverment cash as there right.[/p][/quote]Aw bless, you really don't understand, do you? These cuts are about the Government removing all state support, and not just from students. Students do need to support themselves to an extent - we all have to. But not to the point where only the wealthy can succeed. Smelling that coffee yet?[/p][/quote]awww bless , you really think you can intimidate me ? ha ha....any way as i am not entitled to any goverment benifits any way i dont see why i should care tbh, are the wealthy not already in the secceeded club ? No one has told me yet why my tax should be used to pay for a adults education ?[/p][/quote]Perhaps you should put some of your precious tax to good use and get 'a adult education'. Colin Houlson

5:25pm Wed 24 Nov 10

Colin Houlson says...

Tea break wrote:
Fight Back wrote:
LawStudent wrote:
I applaud Tea Break as he is obviously the only person on this forum who is bothered enough to see the bigger picture. Students in year 9, 10 and 11 will lose momentum to achieve as they know for a fact they will no longer have the opportunity to become a doctor or lawyer etc. So referring to someone’s earlier comment on how students are a drain on the tax payer, how do you think that’s going to change when students don’t go to university, can’t find jobs because of lack of qualifications, and rely on job seeker’s allowance and take even more of your hard earned money? I certainly want the opportunity to become successful in my chosen field; law, and definitely can’t achieve that without a university degree. What most annoys me is the fact that people who have jobs and earn a living for themselves and their families today, don’t realise how hard it is in this current climate to get a job. Yes it is good you have a job and you can afford to be judgmental, but what about the students who are just starting out, who have nothing and you aren’t helping them and the government aren’t helping them, by rising university prices and making the opportunity to better yourself less available to any student, because who says someone who can afford these fees deserves the education more than someone who can’t?
As I made the comment on Uni students being a drain I'll answer you.

A majority of students now leave Uni and end up in either in low paid jobs or on the dole. So those in low paid jobs are a drain because they aren't paying back their fees and those on the dole are a double drain.

The answer is to make Unis exclusive to the best students again - not open them up to any man and his dog. I often interview people for positions and it's remarkable how awful the CV often is from degree holders. I've got fed up with degree holding students EXPECTING to get the job so now don't interview them - I look for experience rather than qualifications.

To the idiot that thinks he understands the private education sector - private schools that register as charities get tax relief because they are CHARITIES. They don't get direct subs from the state. Every penny they need to run the school they have to raise in fees or fund raising. All of them also make bursaries available to talented children that can't afford the fees. If the people who send their children to private schools didn't the state education would required considerably more funding than it does now. Your comments against a private education smack of envy rather than an intelligent understanding.
So you actively discriminate against people holding at degree looking for employment at your organisation? I'm sure your boss would be pleased to hear that rather than recruiting the best person for the job, irrespective of whether they hold a degree or not, you're filtering the CVs based on your personal opinion.
Agreed. Someone call KFC immediately.
[quote][p][bold]Tea break[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Fight Back[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]LawStudent[/bold] wrote: I applaud Tea Break as he is obviously the only person on this forum who is bothered enough to see the bigger picture. Students in year 9, 10 and 11 will lose momentum to achieve as they know for a fact they will no longer have the opportunity to become a doctor or lawyer etc. So referring to someone’s earlier comment on how students are a drain on the tax payer, how do you think that’s going to change when students don’t go to university, can’t find jobs because of lack of qualifications, and rely on job seeker’s allowance and take even more of your hard earned money? I certainly want the opportunity to become successful in my chosen field; law, and definitely can’t achieve that without a university degree. What most annoys me is the fact that people who have jobs and earn a living for themselves and their families today, don’t realise how hard it is in this current climate to get a job. Yes it is good you have a job and you can afford to be judgmental, but what about the students who are just starting out, who have nothing and you aren’t helping them and the government aren’t helping them, by rising university prices and making the opportunity to better yourself less available to any student, because who says someone who can afford these fees deserves the education more than someone who can’t?[/p][/quote]As I made the comment on Uni students being a drain I'll answer you. A majority of students now leave Uni and end up in either in low paid jobs or on the dole. So those in low paid jobs are a drain because they aren't paying back their fees and those on the dole are a double drain. The answer is to make Unis exclusive to the best students again - not open them up to any man and his dog. I often interview people for positions and it's remarkable how awful the CV often is from degree holders. I've got fed up with degree holding students EXPECTING to get the job so now don't interview them - I look for experience rather than qualifications. To the idiot that thinks he understands the private education sector - private schools that register as charities get tax relief because they are CHARITIES. They don't get direct subs from the state. Every penny they need to run the school they have to raise in fees or fund raising. All of them also make bursaries available to talented children that can't afford the fees. If the people who send their children to private schools didn't the state education would required considerably more funding than it does now. Your comments against a private education smack of envy rather than an intelligent understanding.[/p][/quote]So you actively discriminate against people holding at degree looking for employment at your organisation? I'm sure your boss would be pleased to hear that rather than recruiting the best person for the job, irrespective of whether they hold a degree or not, you're filtering the CVs based on your personal opinion.[/p][/quote]Agreed. Someone call KFC immediately. Colin Houlson

5:26pm Wed 24 Nov 10

Fight Back says...

Tea break wrote:
Fight Back wrote:
LawStudent wrote:
I applaud Tea Break as he is obviously the only person on this forum who is bothered enough to see the bigger picture. Students in year 9, 10 and 11 will lose momentum to achieve as they know for a fact they will no longer have the opportunity to become a doctor or lawyer etc. So referring to someone’s earlier comment on how students are a drain on the tax payer, how do you think that’s going to change when students don’t go to university, can’t find jobs because of lack of qualifications, and rely on job seeker’s allowance and take even more of your hard earned money? I certainly want the opportunity to become successful in my chosen field; law, and definitely can’t achieve that without a university degree. What most annoys me is the fact that people who have jobs and earn a living for themselves and their families today, don’t realise how hard it is in this current climate to get a job. Yes it is good you have a job and you can afford to be judgmental, but what about the students who are just starting out, who have nothing and you aren’t helping them and the government aren’t helping them, by rising university prices and making the opportunity to better yourself less available to any student, because who says someone who can afford these fees deserves the education more than someone who can’t?
As I made the comment on Uni students being a drain I'll answer you.

A majority of students now leave Uni and end up in either in low paid jobs or on the dole. So those in low paid jobs are a drain because they aren't paying back their fees and those on the dole are a double drain.

The answer is to make Unis exclusive to the best students again - not open them up to any man and his dog. I often interview people for positions and it's remarkable how awful the CV often is from degree holders. I've got fed up with degree holding students EXPECTING to get the job so now don't interview them - I look for experience rather than qualifications.

To the idiot that thinks he understands the private education sector - private schools that register as charities get tax relief because they are CHARITIES. They don't get direct subs from the state. Every penny they need to run the school they have to raise in fees or fund raising. All of them also make bursaries available to talented children that can't afford the fees. If the people who send their children to private schools didn't the state education would required considerably more funding than it does now. Your comments against a private education smack of envy rather than an intelligent understanding.
So you actively discriminate against people holding at degree looking for employment at your organisation? I'm sure your boss would be pleased to hear that rather than recruiting the best person for the job, irrespective of whether they hold a degree or not, you're filtering the CVs based on your personal opinion.
Yes - it's call filtering the candidates. 99.9% of the time those with work experience have been the better candidate rather than those with a bit of paper from a Uni. As no company has the time to interview all candidates you have to find a method that gets you to a decent candidate the quickest. Given virtually all the CVs I've ever read from graduates are very poor and often contain spelling mistakes they are some of the first CVs filtered out. Oh, my boss knows my filtering process and uses it as well !
[quote][p][bold]Tea break[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Fight Back[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]LawStudent[/bold] wrote: I applaud Tea Break as he is obviously the only person on this forum who is bothered enough to see the bigger picture. Students in year 9, 10 and 11 will lose momentum to achieve as they know for a fact they will no longer have the opportunity to become a doctor or lawyer etc. So referring to someone’s earlier comment on how students are a drain on the tax payer, how do you think that’s going to change when students don’t go to university, can’t find jobs because of lack of qualifications, and rely on job seeker’s allowance and take even more of your hard earned money? I certainly want the opportunity to become successful in my chosen field; law, and definitely can’t achieve that without a university degree. What most annoys me is the fact that people who have jobs and earn a living for themselves and their families today, don’t realise how hard it is in this current climate to get a job. Yes it is good you have a job and you can afford to be judgmental, but what about the students who are just starting out, who have nothing and you aren’t helping them and the government aren’t helping them, by rising university prices and making the opportunity to better yourself less available to any student, because who says someone who can afford these fees deserves the education more than someone who can’t?[/p][/quote]As I made the comment on Uni students being a drain I'll answer you. A majority of students now leave Uni and end up in either in low paid jobs or on the dole. So those in low paid jobs are a drain because they aren't paying back their fees and those on the dole are a double drain. The answer is to make Unis exclusive to the best students again - not open them up to any man and his dog. I often interview people for positions and it's remarkable how awful the CV often is from degree holders. I've got fed up with degree holding students EXPECTING to get the job so now don't interview them - I look for experience rather than qualifications. To the idiot that thinks he understands the private education sector - private schools that register as charities get tax relief because they are CHARITIES. They don't get direct subs from the state. Every penny they need to run the school they have to raise in fees or fund raising. All of them also make bursaries available to talented children that can't afford the fees. If the people who send their children to private schools didn't the state education would required considerably more funding than it does now. Your comments against a private education smack of envy rather than an intelligent understanding.[/p][/quote]So you actively discriminate against people holding at degree looking for employment at your organisation? I'm sure your boss would be pleased to hear that rather than recruiting the best person for the job, irrespective of whether they hold a degree or not, you're filtering the CVs based on your personal opinion.[/p][/quote]Yes - it's call filtering the candidates. 99.9% of the time those with work experience have been the better candidate rather than those with a bit of paper from a Uni. As no company has the time to interview all candidates you have to find a method that gets you to a decent candidate the quickest. Given virtually all the CVs I've ever read from graduates are very poor and often contain spelling mistakes they are some of the first CVs filtered out. Oh, my boss knows my filtering process and uses it as well ! Fight Back

5:27pm Wed 24 Nov 10

She-Ra, Princess Of Power says...

You don't 'have' to have a degree to get a good job. I know this to be fact because I don't have one and I have a good job and comfy life. That is purely down to my own hard work, not because I have a bit of paper that says I know something!

I appreciate there are some professions that require degrees because of the level of knowledge you need to have - and I think those who will go into public service when they're done (e.g. NHS doctors, nurses etc) should have some kind of discount OR perhaps the NHS should at least part-fund the course for people to get a job at the end of it, etc. I don't think police officers, firemen etc have to pay for their training.... The issue there is where to draw the line.

It seems anyone can go to uni these days and do any old course and some of them are perhaps not worth it - I see my recently qualified friends with degrees in obscure subjects working in a supermarket or temping as admin clerks etc and I'm glad I didn't bother. There seems to be so many people with degrees that they're not worth what they used to be, which surely defeats the point!
You don't 'have' to have a degree to get a good job. I know this to be fact because I don't have one and I have a good job and comfy life. That is purely down to my own hard work, not because I have a bit of paper that says I know something! I appreciate there are some professions that require degrees because of the level of knowledge you need to have - and I think those who will go into public service when they're done (e.g. NHS doctors, nurses etc) should have some kind of discount OR perhaps the NHS should at least part-fund the course for people to get a job at the end of it, etc. I don't think police officers, firemen etc have to pay for their training.... The issue there is where to draw the line. It seems anyone can go to uni these days and do any old course and some of them are perhaps not worth it - I see my recently qualified friends with degrees in obscure subjects working in a supermarket or temping as admin clerks etc and I'm glad I didn't bother. There seems to be so many people with degrees that they're not worth what they used to be, which surely defeats the point! She-Ra, Princess Of Power

5:31pm Wed 24 Nov 10

Colin Houlson says...

Fight Back wrote:
Tea break wrote:
Fight Back wrote:
LawStudent wrote:
I applaud Tea Break as he is obviously the only person on this forum who is bothered enough to see the bigger picture. Students in year 9, 10 and 11 will lose momentum to achieve as they know for a fact they will no longer have the opportunity to become a doctor or lawyer etc. So referring to someone’s earlier comment on how students are a drain on the tax payer, how do you think that’s going to change when students don’t go to university, can’t find jobs because of lack of qualifications, and rely on job seeker’s allowance and take even more of your hard earned money? I certainly want the opportunity to become successful in my chosen field; law, and definitely can’t achieve that without a university degree. What most annoys me is the fact that people who have jobs and earn a living for themselves and their families today, don’t realise how hard it is in this current climate to get a job. Yes it is good you have a job and you can afford to be judgmental, but what about the students who are just starting out, who have nothing and you aren’t helping them and the government aren’t helping them, by rising university prices and making the opportunity to better yourself less available to any student, because who says someone who can afford these fees deserves the education more than someone who can’t?
As I made the comment on Uni students being a drain I'll answer you.

A majority of students now leave Uni and end up in either in low paid jobs or on the dole. So those in low paid jobs are a drain because they aren't paying back their fees and those on the dole are a double drain.

The answer is to make Unis exclusive to the best students again - not open them up to any man and his dog. I often interview people for positions and it's remarkable how awful the CV often is from degree holders. I've got fed up with degree holding students EXPECTING to get the job so now don't interview them - I look for experience rather than qualifications.

To the idiot that thinks he understands the private education sector - private schools that register as charities get tax relief because they are CHARITIES. They don't get direct subs from the state. Every penny they need to run the school they have to raise in fees or fund raising. All of them also make bursaries available to talented children that can't afford the fees. If the people who send their children to private schools didn't the state education would required considerably more funding than it does now. Your comments against a private education smack of envy rather than an intelligent understanding.
So you actively discriminate against people holding at degree looking for employment at your organisation? I'm sure your boss would be pleased to hear that rather than recruiting the best person for the job, irrespective of whether they hold a degree or not, you're filtering the CVs based on your personal opinion.
Yes - it's call filtering the candidates. 99.9% of the time those with work experience have been the better candidate rather than those with a bit of paper from a Uni. As no company has the time to interview all candidates you have to find a method that gets you to a decent candidate the quickest. Given virtually all the CVs I've ever read from graduates are very poor and often contain spelling mistakes they are some of the first CVs filtered out. Oh, my boss knows my filtering process and uses it as well !
I make it around half a dozen grammatical errors in your comment. Are you sure you're qualified for this job, mate?
[quote][p][bold]Fight Back[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Tea break[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Fight Back[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]LawStudent[/bold] wrote: I applaud Tea Break as he is obviously the only person on this forum who is bothered enough to see the bigger picture. Students in year 9, 10 and 11 will lose momentum to achieve as they know for a fact they will no longer have the opportunity to become a doctor or lawyer etc. So referring to someone’s earlier comment on how students are a drain on the tax payer, how do you think that’s going to change when students don’t go to university, can’t find jobs because of lack of qualifications, and rely on job seeker’s allowance and take even more of your hard earned money? I certainly want the opportunity to become successful in my chosen field; law, and definitely can’t achieve that without a university degree. What most annoys me is the fact that people who have jobs and earn a living for themselves and their families today, don’t realise how hard it is in this current climate to get a job. Yes it is good you have a job and you can afford to be judgmental, but what about the students who are just starting out, who have nothing and you aren’t helping them and the government aren’t helping them, by rising university prices and making the opportunity to better yourself less available to any student, because who says someone who can afford these fees deserves the education more than someone who can’t?[/p][/quote]As I made the comment on Uni students being a drain I'll answer you. A majority of students now leave Uni and end up in either in low paid jobs or on the dole. So those in low paid jobs are a drain because they aren't paying back their fees and those on the dole are a double drain. The answer is to make Unis exclusive to the best students again - not open them up to any man and his dog. I often interview people for positions and it's remarkable how awful the CV often is from degree holders. I've got fed up with degree holding students EXPECTING to get the job so now don't interview them - I look for experience rather than qualifications. To the idiot that thinks he understands the private education sector - private schools that register as charities get tax relief because they are CHARITIES. They don't get direct subs from the state. Every penny they need to run the school they have to raise in fees or fund raising. All of them also make bursaries available to talented children that can't afford the fees. If the people who send their children to private schools didn't the state education would required considerably more funding than it does now. Your comments against a private education smack of envy rather than an intelligent understanding.[/p][/quote]So you actively discriminate against people holding at degree looking for employment at your organisation? I'm sure your boss would be pleased to hear that rather than recruiting the best person for the job, irrespective of whether they hold a degree or not, you're filtering the CVs based on your personal opinion.[/p][/quote]Yes - it's call filtering the candidates. 99.9% of the time those with work experience have been the better candidate rather than those with a bit of paper from a Uni. As no company has the time to interview all candidates you have to find a method that gets you to a decent candidate the quickest. Given virtually all the CVs I've ever read from graduates are very poor and often contain spelling mistakes they are some of the first CVs filtered out. Oh, my boss knows my filtering process and uses it as well ![/p][/quote]I make it around half a dozen grammatical errors in your comment. Are you sure you're qualified for this job, mate? Colin Houlson

5:34pm Wed 24 Nov 10

RottingdeanRant says...

I would have thought that a simple way to reduce many of the fees is to make the degree course shorter, maybe 2 years or less instead of 3. The students could then be expected to work 5 days a week for 8 hours a day. This I expect would also reduce the problems associated with late night parties.
I would have thought that a simple way to reduce many of the fees is to make the degree course shorter, maybe 2 years or less instead of 3. The students could then be expected to work 5 days a week for 8 hours a day. This I expect would also reduce the problems associated with late night parties. RottingdeanRant

5:39pm Wed 24 Nov 10

Joeinbrighton says...

RottingdeanRant wrote:
I would have thought that a simple way to reduce many of the fees is to make the degree course shorter, maybe 2 years or less instead of 3. The students could then be expected to work 5 days a week for 8 hours a day. This I expect would also reduce the problems associated with late night parties.
How would this help exactly? If you are cramming a course into 2 years rather than 3 or 4, it either means that the student would not be completing a full degree, or it would mean they would be cramming more of a syllabus into a shorter space of time. And if it turns out to be the latter, how exactly is a student supposed to get their coursework and required reading done while at one and the same time holding down a full time job? There is such a thing as a work-life balance!
[quote][p][bold]RottingdeanRant[/bold] wrote: I would have thought that a simple way to reduce many of the fees is to make the degree course shorter, maybe 2 years or less instead of 3. The students could then be expected to work 5 days a week for 8 hours a day. This I expect would also reduce the problems associated with late night parties.[/p][/quote]How would this help exactly? If you are cramming a course into 2 years rather than 3 or 4, it either means that the student would not be completing a full degree, or it would mean they would be cramming more of a syllabus into a shorter space of time. And if it turns out to be the latter, how exactly is a student supposed to get their coursework and required reading done while at one and the same time holding down a full time job? There is such a thing as a work-life balance! Joeinbrighton

5:42pm Wed 24 Nov 10

kkj says...

Colin Houlson wrote:
LtPaperclip wrote:
commentisfree wrote:
LtPaperclip wrote:
commentisfree wrote: Why do you all think it is only about cuts in University education?
You wait until next year when all the new taxes and cuts take effect. You better get in line at the soup kitchens or you will be going hungry . There are no free rides in life...Students should get part time jobs to pay for extra education and not see free goverment cash as there right.
Aw bless, you really don't understand, do you? These cuts are about the Government removing all state support, and not just from students. Students do need to support themselves to an extent - we all have to. But not to the point where only the wealthy can succeed. Smelling that coffee yet?
awww bless , you really think you can intimidate me ? ha ha....any way as i am not entitled to any goverment benifits any way i dont see why i should care tbh, are the wealthy not already in the secceeded club ? No one has told me yet why my tax should be used to pay for a adults education ?
Perhaps you should put some of your precious tax to good use and get 'a adult education'.
I think what LtPaperclip is getting at is that as he has never used anyone's tax money to get an education, why should other people use his to get one? At least that's what I surmise from reading his posts.
[quote][p][bold]Colin Houlson[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]LtPaperclip[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]commentisfree[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]LtPaperclip[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]commentisfree[/bold] wrote: Why do you all think it is only about cuts in University education?[/p][/quote]You wait until next year when all the new taxes and cuts take effect. You better get in line at the soup kitchens or you will be going hungry . There are no free rides in life...Students should get part time jobs to pay for extra education and not see free goverment cash as there right.[/p][/quote]Aw bless, you really don't understand, do you? These cuts are about the Government removing all state support, and not just from students. Students do need to support themselves to an extent - we all have to. But not to the point where only the wealthy can succeed. Smelling that coffee yet?[/p][/quote]awww bless , you really think you can intimidate me ? ha ha....any way as i am not entitled to any goverment benifits any way i dont see why i should care tbh, are the wealthy not already in the secceeded club ? No one has told me yet why my tax should be used to pay for a adults education ?[/p][/quote]Perhaps you should put some of your precious tax to good use and get 'a adult education'.[/p][/quote]I think what LtPaperclip is getting at is that as he has never used anyone's tax money to get an education, why should other people use his to get one? At least that's what I surmise from reading his posts. kkj

5:47pm Wed 24 Nov 10

Joeinbrighton says...

kkj wrote:
Colin Houlson wrote:
LtPaperclip wrote:
commentisfree wrote:
LtPaperclip wrote:
commentisfree wrote: Why do you all think it is only about cuts in University education?
You wait until next year when all the new taxes and cuts take effect. You better get in line at the soup kitchens or you will be going hungry . There are no free rides in life...Students should get part time jobs to pay for extra education and not see free goverment cash as there right.
Aw bless, you really don't understand, do you? These cuts are about the Government removing all state support, and not just from students. Students do need to support themselves to an extent - we all have to. But not to the point where only the wealthy can succeed. Smelling that coffee yet?
awww bless , you really think you can intimidate me ? ha ha....any way as i am not entitled to any goverment benifits any way i dont see why i should care tbh, are the wealthy not already in the secceeded club ? No one has told me yet why my tax should be used to pay for a adults education ?
Perhaps you should put some of your precious tax to good use and get 'a adult education'.
I think what LtPaperclip is getting at is that as he has never used anyone's tax money to get an education, why should other people use his to get one? At least that's what I surmise from reading his posts.
Unless our learned friend, the decorated trombone, never went to school, or unless he was schooled on foreign shores, he will at some point have had his education funded by the British tax payer just as the rest of us have.
[quote][p][bold]kkj[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Colin Houlson[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]LtPaperclip[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]commentisfree[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]LtPaperclip[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]commentisfree[/bold] wrote: Why do you all think it is only about cuts in University education?[/p][/quote]You wait until next year when all the new taxes and cuts take effect. You better get in line at the soup kitchens or you will be going hungry . There are no free rides in life...Students should get part time jobs to pay for extra education and not see free goverment cash as there right.[/p][/quote]Aw bless, you really don't understand, do you? These cuts are about the Government removing all state support, and not just from students. Students do need to support themselves to an extent - we all have to. But not to the point where only the wealthy can succeed. Smelling that coffee yet?[/p][/quote]awww bless , you really think you can intimidate me ? ha ha....any way as i am not entitled to any goverment benifits any way i dont see why i should care tbh, are the wealthy not already in the secceeded club ? No one has told me yet why my tax should be used to pay for a adults education ?[/p][/quote]Perhaps you should put some of your precious tax to good use and get 'a adult education'.[/p][/quote]I think what LtPaperclip is getting at is that as he has never used anyone's tax money to get an education, why should other people use his to get one? At least that's what I surmise from reading his posts.[/p][/quote]Unless our learned friend, the decorated trombone, never went to school, or unless he was schooled on foreign shores, he will at some point have had his education funded by the British tax payer just as the rest of us have. Joeinbrighton

5:48pm Wed 24 Nov 10

Fight Back says...

Colin Houlson wrote:
Fight Back wrote:
Tea break wrote:
Fight Back wrote:
LawStudent wrote:
I applaud Tea Break as he is obviously the only person on this forum who is bothered enough to see the bigger picture. Students in year 9, 10 and 11 will lose momentum to achieve as they know for a fact they will no longer have the opportunity to become a doctor or lawyer etc. So referring to someone’s earlier comment on how students are a drain on the tax payer, how do you think that’s going to change when students don’t go to university, can’t find jobs because of lack of qualifications, and rely on job seeker’s allowance and take even more of your hard earned money? I certainly want the opportunity to become successful in my chosen field; law, and definitely can’t achieve that without a university degree. What most annoys me is the fact that people who have jobs and earn a living for themselves and their families today, don’t realise how hard it is in this current climate to get a job. Yes it is good you have a job and you can afford to be judgmental, but what about the students who are just starting out, who have nothing and you aren’t helping them and the government aren’t helping them, by rising university prices and making the opportunity to better yourself less available to any student, because who says someone who can afford these fees deserves the education more than someone who can’t?
As I made the comment on Uni students being a drain I'll answer you.

A majority of students now leave Uni and end up in either in low paid jobs or on the dole. So those in low paid jobs are a drain because they aren't paying back their fees and those on the dole are a double drain.

The answer is to make Unis exclusive to the best students again - not open them up to any man and his dog. I often interview people for positions and it's remarkable how awful the CV often is from degree holders. I've got fed up with degree holding students EXPECTING to get the job so now don't interview them - I look for experience rather than qualifications.

To the idiot that thinks he understands the private education sector - private schools that register as charities get tax relief because they are CHARITIES. They don't get direct subs from the state. Every penny they need to run the school they have to raise in fees or fund raising. All of them also make bursaries available to talented children that can't afford the fees. If the people who send their children to private schools didn't the state education would required considerably more funding than it does now. Your comments against a private education smack of envy rather than an intelligent understanding.
So you actively discriminate against people holding at degree looking for employment at your organisation? I'm sure your boss would be pleased to hear that rather than recruiting the best person for the job, irrespective of whether they hold a degree or not, you're filtering the CVs based on your personal opinion.
Yes - it's call filtering the candidates. 99.9% of the time those with work experience have been the better candidate rather than those with a bit of paper from a Uni. As no company has the time to interview all candidates you have to find a method that gets you to a decent candidate the quickest. Given virtually all the CVs I've ever read from graduates are very poor and often contain spelling mistakes they are some of the first CVs filtered out. Oh, my boss knows my filtering process and uses it as well !
I make it around half a dozen grammatical errors in your comment. Are you sure you're qualified for this job, mate?
There's a hell of a difference between an online forum and a CV. I proof read my CV - I don't bother with my posts on here !
[quote][p][bold]Colin Houlson[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Fight Back[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Tea break[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Fight Back[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]LawStudent[/bold] wrote: I applaud Tea Break as he is obviously the only person on this forum who is bothered enough to see the bigger picture. Students in year 9, 10 and 11 will lose momentum to achieve as they know for a fact they will no longer have the opportunity to become a doctor or lawyer etc. So referring to someone’s earlier comment on how students are a drain on the tax payer, how do you think that’s going to change when students don’t go to university, can’t find jobs because of lack of qualifications, and rely on job seeker’s allowance and take even more of your hard earned money? I certainly want the opportunity to become successful in my chosen field; law, and definitely can’t achieve that without a university degree. What most annoys me is the fact that people who have jobs and earn a living for themselves and their families today, don’t realise how hard it is in this current climate to get a job. Yes it is good you have a job and you can afford to be judgmental, but what about the students who are just starting out, who have nothing and you aren’t helping them and the government aren’t helping them, by rising university prices and making the opportunity to better yourself less available to any student, because who says someone who can afford these fees deserves the education more than someone who can’t?[/p][/quote]As I made the comment on Uni students being a drain I'll answer you. A majority of students now leave Uni and end up in either in low paid jobs or on the dole. So those in low paid jobs are a drain because they aren't paying back their fees and those on the dole are a double drain. The answer is to make Unis exclusive to the best students again - not open them up to any man and his dog. I often interview people for positions and it's remarkable how awful the CV often is from degree holders. I've got fed up with degree holding students EXPECTING to get the job so now don't interview them - I look for experience rather than qualifications. To the idiot that thinks he understands the private education sector - private schools that register as charities get tax relief because they are CHARITIES. They don't get direct subs from the state. Every penny they need to run the school they have to raise in fees or fund raising. All of them also make bursaries available to talented children that can't afford the fees. If the people who send their children to private schools didn't the state education would required considerably more funding than it does now. Your comments against a private education smack of envy rather than an intelligent understanding.[/p][/quote]So you actively discriminate against people holding at degree looking for employment at your organisation? I'm sure your boss would be pleased to hear that rather than recruiting the best person for the job, irrespective of whether they hold a degree or not, you're filtering the CVs based on your personal opinion.[/p][/quote]Yes - it's call filtering the candidates. 99.9% of the time those with work experience have been the better candidate rather than those with a bit of paper from a Uni. As no company has the time to interview all candidates you have to find a method that gets you to a decent candidate the quickest. Given virtually all the CVs I've ever read from graduates are very poor and often contain spelling mistakes they are some of the first CVs filtered out. Oh, my boss knows my filtering process and uses it as well ![/p][/quote]I make it around half a dozen grammatical errors in your comment. Are you sure you're qualified for this job, mate?[/p][/quote]There's a hell of a difference between an online forum and a CV. I proof read my CV - I don't bother with my posts on here ! Fight Back

5:50pm Wed 24 Nov 10

Morpheus says...

true-brightonian wrote:
@sussexladybabe, the world has changed since then. Today's youngsters are told from Day 1 then need to get a degree, otherwise their lives are not worth living. On top of that, 30 years ago this country made actual things. Those manufacturing jobs are long gone now. To get a job that allows you to raise a family today, I am afraid you need to have an education. 30 years ago most jobs didn't require a degree. Today they do. Our young people will find themselves having to compete against better educated Europeans, Indians and Chinese. Maybe you should study history.
My understanding is that standards have become so low that the only way to get anybody with any capability is to hire somebody with a degree. Many graduades are unemployed after the degree and even then accept jobs not requiring a degree. All this points to a waste of money in sending so many people to university. It was a policy of the Blair government that has resulted in this chaos.
[quote][p][bold]true-brightonian[/bold] wrote: @sussexladybabe, the world has changed since then. Today's youngsters are told from Day 1 then need to get a degree, otherwise their lives are not worth living. On top of that, 30 years ago this country made actual things. Those manufacturing jobs are long gone now. To get a job that allows you to raise a family today, I am afraid you need to have an education. 30 years ago most jobs didn't require a degree. Today they do. Our young people will find themselves having to compete against better educated Europeans, Indians and Chinese. Maybe you should study history.[/p][/quote]My understanding is that standards have become so low that the only way to get anybody with any capability is to hire somebody with a degree. Many graduades are unemployed after the degree and even then accept jobs not requiring a degree. All this points to a waste of money in sending so many people to university. It was a policy of the Blair government that has resulted in this chaos. Morpheus

5:51pm Wed 24 Nov 10

Colin Houlson says...

kkj wrote:
Colin Houlson wrote:
LtPaperclip wrote:
commentisfree wrote:
LtPaperclip wrote:
commentisfree wrote: Why do you all think it is only about cuts in University education?
You wait until next year when all the new taxes and cuts take effect. You better get in line at the soup kitchens or you will be going hungry . There are no free rides in life...Students should get part time jobs to pay for extra education and not see free goverment cash as there right.
Aw bless, you really don't understand, do you? These cuts are about the Government removing all state support, and not just from students. Students do need to support themselves to an extent - we all have to. But not to the point where only the wealthy can succeed. Smelling that coffee yet?
awww bless , you really think you can intimidate me ? ha ha....any way as i am not entitled to any goverment benifits any way i dont see why i should care tbh, are the wealthy not already in the secceeded club ? No one has told me yet why my tax should be used to pay for a adults education ?
Perhaps you should put some of your precious tax to good use and get 'a adult education'.
I think what LtPaperclip is getting at is that as he has never used anyone's tax money to get an education, why should other people use his to get one? At least that's what I surmise from reading his posts.
Perhaps, but no doubt he's done certain things in his life that did require public funding of some sort. Just because someone else hasn't had that same need, whatever it might be, should he be denied the money from that taxpayer? There isn't a section on a tax return form where you can specify how your money is spent. If there were, a considerable amount of people would opt out of funding, say, Royal weddings or the war in Iraq.
[quote][p][bold]kkj[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Colin Houlson[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]LtPaperclip[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]commentisfree[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]LtPaperclip[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]commentisfree[/bold] wrote: Why do you all think it is only about cuts in University education?[/p][/quote]You wait until next year when all the new taxes and cuts take effect. You better get in line at the soup kitchens or you will be going hungry . There are no free rides in life...Students should get part time jobs to pay for extra education and not see free goverment cash as there right.[/p][/quote]Aw bless, you really don't understand, do you? These cuts are about the Government removing all state support, and not just from students. Students do need to support themselves to an extent - we all have to. But not to the point where only the wealthy can succeed. Smelling that coffee yet?[/p][/quote]awww bless , you really think you can intimidate me ? ha ha....any way as i am not entitled to any goverment benifits any way i dont see why i should care tbh, are the wealthy not already in the secceeded club ? No one has told me yet why my tax should be used to pay for a adults education ?[/p][/quote]Perhaps you should put some of your precious tax to good use and get 'a adult education'.[/p][/quote]I think what LtPaperclip is getting at is that as he has never used anyone's tax money to get an education, why should other people use his to get one? At least that's what I surmise from reading his posts.[/p][/quote]Perhaps, but no doubt he's done certain things in his life that did require public funding of some sort. Just because someone else hasn't had that same need, whatever it might be, should he be denied the money from that taxpayer? There isn't a section on a tax return form where you can specify how your money is spent. If there were, a considerable amount of people would opt out of funding, say, Royal weddings or the war in Iraq. Colin Houlson

5:56pm Wed 24 Nov 10

Colin Houlson says...

Fight Back wrote:
Colin Houlson wrote:
Fight Back wrote:
Tea break wrote:
Fight Back wrote:
LawStudent wrote:
I applaud Tea Break as he is obviously the only person on this forum who is bothered enough to see the bigger picture. Students in year 9, 10 and 11 will lose momentum to achieve as they know for a fact they will no longer have the opportunity to become a doctor or lawyer etc. So referring to someone’s earlier comment on how students are a drain on the tax payer, how do you think that’s going to change when students don’t go to university, can’t find jobs because of lack of qualifications, and rely on job seeker’s allowance and take even more of your hard earned money? I certainly want the opportunity to become successful in my chosen field; law, and definitely can’t achieve that without a university degree. What most annoys me is the fact that people who have jobs and earn a living for themselves and their families today, don’t realise how hard it is in this current climate to get a job. Yes it is good you have a job and you can afford to be judgmental, but what about the students who are just starting out, who have nothing and you aren’t helping them and the government aren’t helping them, by rising university prices and making the opportunity to better yourself less available to any student, because who says someone who can afford these fees deserves the education more than someone who can’t?
As I made the comment on Uni students being a drain I'll answer you.

A majority of students now leave Uni and end up in either in low paid jobs or on the dole. So those in low paid jobs are a drain because they aren't paying back their fees and those on the dole are a double drain.

The answer is to make Unis exclusive to the best students again - not open them up to any man and his dog. I often interview people for positions and it's remarkable how awful the CV often is from degree holders. I've got fed up with degree holding students EXPECTING to get the job so now don't interview them - I look for experience rather than qualifications.

To the idiot that thinks he understands the private education sector - private schools that register as charities get tax relief because they are CHARITIES. They don't get direct subs from the state. Every penny they need to run the school they have to raise in fees or fund raising. All of them also make bursaries available to talented children that can't afford the fees. If the people who send their children to private schools didn't the state education would required considerably more funding than it does now. Your comments against a private education smack of envy rather than an intelligent understanding.
So you actively discriminate against people holding at degree looking for employment at your organisation? I'm sure your boss would be pleased to hear that rather than recruiting the best person for the job, irrespective of whether they hold a degree or not, you're filtering the CVs based on your personal opinion.
Yes - it's call filtering the candidates. 99.9% of the time those with work experience have been the better candidate rather than those with a bit of paper from a Uni. As no company has the time to interview all candidates you have to find a method that gets you to a decent candidate the quickest. Given virtually all the CVs I've ever read from graduates are very poor and often contain spelling mistakes they are some of the first CVs filtered out. Oh, my boss knows my filtering process and uses it as well !
I make it around half a dozen grammatical errors in your comment. Are you sure you're qualified for this job, mate?
There's a hell of a difference between an online forum and a CV. I proof read my CV - I don't bother with my posts on here !
That's 'proofread' or 'proof-read'. But you knew that.
[quote][p][bold]Fight Back[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Colin Houlson[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Fight Back[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Tea break[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Fight Back[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]LawStudent[/bold] wrote: I applaud Tea Break as he is obviously the only person on this forum who is bothered enough to see the bigger picture. Students in year 9, 10 and 11 will lose momentum to achieve as they know for a fact they will no longer have the opportunity to become a doctor or lawyer etc. So referring to someone’s earlier comment on how students are a drain on the tax payer, how do you think that’s going to change when students don’t go to university, can’t find jobs because of lack of qualifications, and rely on job seeker’s allowance and take even more of your hard earned money? I certainly want the opportunity to become successful in my chosen field; law, and definitely can’t achieve that without a university degree. What most annoys me is the fact that people who have jobs and earn a living for themselves and their families today, don’t realise how hard it is in this current climate to get a job. Yes it is good you have a job and you can afford to be judgmental, but what about the students who are just starting out, who have nothing and you aren’t helping them and the government aren’t helping them, by rising university prices and making the opportunity to better yourself less available to any student, because who says someone who can afford these fees deserves the education more than someone who can’t?[/p][/quote]As I made the comment on Uni students being a drain I'll answer you. A majority of students now leave Uni and end up in either in low paid jobs or on the dole. So those in low paid jobs are a drain because they aren't paying back their fees and those on the dole are a double drain. The answer is to make Unis exclusive to the best students again - not open them up to any man and his dog. I often interview people for positions and it's remarkable how awful the CV often is from degree holders. I've got fed up with degree holding students EXPECTING to get the job so now don't interview them - I look for experience rather than qualifications. To the idiot that thinks he understands the private education sector - private schools that register as charities get tax relief because they are CHARITIES. They don't get direct subs from the state. Every penny they need to run the school they have to raise in fees or fund raising. All of them also make bursaries available to talented children that can't afford the fees. If the people who send their children to private schools didn't the state education would required considerably more funding than it does now. Your comments against a private education smack of envy rather than an intelligent understanding.[/p][/quote]So you actively discriminate against people holding at degree looking for employment at your organisation? I'm sure your boss would be pleased to hear that rather than recruiting the best person for the job, irrespective of whether they hold a degree or not, you're filtering the CVs based on your personal opinion.[/p][/quote]Yes - it's call filtering the candidates. 99.9% of the time those with work experience have been the better candidate rather than those with a bit of paper from a Uni. As no company has the time to interview all candidates you have to find a method that gets you to a decent candidate the quickest. Given virtually all the CVs I've ever read from graduates are very poor and often contain spelling mistakes they are some of the first CVs filtered out. Oh, my boss knows my filtering process and uses it as well ![/p][/quote]I make it around half a dozen grammatical errors in your comment. Are you sure you're qualified for this job, mate?[/p][/quote]There's a hell of a difference between an online forum and a CV. I proof read my CV - I don't bother with my posts on here ![/p][/quote]That's 'proofread' or 'proof-read'. But you knew that. Colin Houlson

5:59pm Wed 24 Nov 10

RottingdeanRant says...

Joeinbrighton wrote:
RottingdeanRant wrote:
I would have thought that a simple way to reduce many of the fees is to make the degree course shorter, maybe 2 years or less instead of 3. The students could then be expected to work 5 days a week for 8 hours a day. This I expect would also reduce the problems associated with late night parties.
How would this help exactly? If you are cramming a course into 2 years rather than 3 or 4, it either means that the student would not be completing a full degree, or it would mean they would be cramming more of a syllabus into a shorter space of time. And if it turns out to be the latter, how exactly is a student supposed to get their coursework and required reading done while at one and the same time holding down a full time job? There is such a thing as a work-life balance!
A significant majority of students that I have had contact with in the last 5 years tell me that they only need to go to the uni 1 to 3 days a week and that is normally only for a few hours. Therefore, notwithstanding the course work there is clearly an opportunity to complete the same syllabus within a shorter overall course. I regularly visit student houses and the majority are not up before 10 am or later and most when up appear to be spending a lot of time watching tv and playing games on their computers. Therefore there is amply opportunity to have them work harder for a shorter period and have the same level of instruction.
[quote][p][bold]Joeinbrighton[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]RottingdeanRant[/bold] wrote: I would have thought that a simple way to reduce many of the fees is to make the degree course shorter, maybe 2 years or less instead of 3. The students could then be expected to work 5 days a week for 8 hours a day. This I expect would also reduce the problems associated with late night parties.[/p][/quote]How would this help exactly? If you are cramming a course into 2 years rather than 3 or 4, it either means that the student would not be completing a full degree, or it would mean they would be cramming more of a syllabus into a shorter space of time. And if it turns out to be the latter, how exactly is a student supposed to get their coursework and required reading done while at one and the same time holding down a full time job? There is such a thing as a work-life balance![/p][/quote]A significant majority of students that I have had contact with in the last 5 years tell me that they only need to go to the uni 1 to 3 days a week and that is normally only for a few hours. Therefore, notwithstanding the course work there is clearly an opportunity to complete the same syllabus within a shorter overall course. I regularly visit student houses and the majority are not up before 10 am or later and most when up appear to be spending a lot of time watching tv and playing games on their computers. Therefore there is amply opportunity to have them work harder for a shorter period and have the same level of instruction. RottingdeanRant

6:01pm Wed 24 Nov 10

Colin Houlson says...

Fight Back wrote:
Colin Houlson wrote:
Fight Back wrote:
Tea break wrote:
Fight Back wrote:
LawStudent wrote:
I applaud Tea Break as he is obviously the only person on this forum who is bothered enough to see the bigger picture. Students in year 9, 10 and 11 will lose momentum to achieve as they know for a fact they will no longer have the opportunity to become a doctor or lawyer etc. So referring to someone’s earlier comment on how students are a drain on the tax payer, how do you think that’s going to change when students don’t go to university, can’t find jobs because of lack of qualifications, and rely on job seeker’s allowance and take even more of your hard earned money? I certainly want the opportunity to become successful in my chosen field; law, and definitely can’t achieve that without a university degree. What most annoys me is the fact that people who have jobs and earn a living for themselves and their families today, don’t realise how hard it is in this current climate to get a job. Yes it is good you have a job and you can afford to be judgmental, but what about the students who are just starting out, who have nothing and you aren’t helping them and the government aren’t helping them, by rising university prices and making the opportunity to better yourself less available to any student, because who says someone who can afford these fees deserves the education more than someone who can’t?
As I made the comment on Uni students being a drain I'll answer you.

A majority of students now leave Uni and end up in either in low paid jobs or on the dole. So those in low paid jobs are a drain because they aren't paying back their fees and those on the dole are a double drain.

The answer is to make Unis exclusive to the best students again - not open them up to any man and his dog. I often interview people for positions and it's remarkable how awful the CV often is from degree holders. I've got fed up with degree holding students EXPECTING to get the job so now don't interview them - I look for experience rather than qualifications.

To the idiot that thinks he understands the private education sector - private schools that register as charities get tax relief because they are CHARITIES. They don't get direct subs from the state. Every penny they need to run the school they have to raise in fees or fund raising. All of them also make bursaries available to talented children that can't afford the fees. If the people who send their children to private schools didn't the state education would required considerably more funding than it does now. Your comments against a private education smack of envy rather than an intelligent understanding.
So you actively discriminate against people holding at degree looking for employment at your organisation? I'm sure your boss would be pleased to hear that rather than recruiting the best person for the job, irrespective of whether they hold a degree or not, you're filtering the CVs based on your personal opinion.
Yes - it's call filtering the candidates. 99.9% of the time those with work experience have been the better candidate rather than those with a bit of paper from a Uni. As no company has the time to interview all candidates you have to find a method that gets you to a decent candidate the quickest. Given virtually all the CVs I've ever read from graduates are very poor and often contain spelling mistakes they are some of the first CVs filtered out. Oh, my boss knows my filtering process and uses it as well !
I make it around half a dozen grammatical errors in your comment. Are you sure you're qualified for this job, mate?
There's a hell of a difference between an online forum and a CV. I proof read my CV - I don't bother with my posts on here !
Christ.
[quote][p][bold]Fight Back[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Colin Houlson[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Fight Back[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Tea break[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Fight Back[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]LawStudent[/bold] wrote: I applaud Tea Break as he is obviously the only person on this forum who is bothered enough to see the bigger picture. Students in year 9, 10 and 11 will lose momentum to achieve as they know for a fact they will no longer have the opportunity to become a doctor or lawyer etc. So referring to someone’s earlier comment on how students are a drain on the tax payer, how do you think that’s going to change when students don’t go to university, can’t find jobs because of lack of qualifications, and rely on job seeker’s allowance and take even more of your hard earned money? I certainly want the opportunity to become successful in my chosen field; law, and definitely can’t achieve that without a university degree. What most annoys me is the fact that people who have jobs and earn a living for themselves and their families today, don’t realise how hard it is in this current climate to get a job. Yes it is good you have a job and you can afford to be judgmental, but what about the students who are just starting out, who have nothing and you aren’t helping them and the government aren’t helping them, by rising university prices and making the opportunity to better yourself less available to any student, because who says someone who can afford these fees deserves the education more than someone who can’t?[/p][/quote]As I made the comment on Uni students being a drain I'll answer you. A majority of students now leave Uni and end up in either in low paid jobs or on the dole. So those in low paid jobs are a drain because they aren't paying back their fees and those on the dole are a double drain. The answer is to make Unis exclusive to the best students again - not open them up to any man and his dog. I often interview people for positions and it's remarkable how awful the CV often is from degree holders. I've got fed up with degree holding students EXPECTING to get the job so now don't interview them - I look for experience rather than qualifications. To the idiot that thinks he understands the private education sector - private schools that register as charities get tax relief because they are CHARITIES. They don't get direct subs from the state. Every penny they need to run the school they have to raise in fees or fund raising. All of them also make bursaries available to talented children that can't afford the fees. If the people who send their children to private schools didn't the state education would required considerably more funding than it does now. Your comments against a private education smack of envy rather than an intelligent understanding.[/p][/quote]So you actively discriminate against people holding at degree looking for employment at your organisation? I'm sure your boss would be pleased to hear that rather than recruiting the best person for the job, irrespective of whether they hold a degree or not, you're filtering the CVs based on your personal opinion.[/p][/quote]Yes - it's call filtering the candidates. 99.9% of the time those with work experience have been the better candidate rather than those with a bit of paper from a Uni. As no company has the time to interview all candidates you have to find a method that gets you to a decent candidate the quickest. Given virtually all the CVs I've ever read from graduates are very poor and often contain spelling mistakes they are some of the first CVs filtered out. Oh, my boss knows my filtering process and uses it as well ![/p][/quote]I make it around half a dozen grammatical errors in your comment. Are you sure you're qualified for this job, mate?[/p][/quote]There's a hell of a difference between an online forum and a CV. I proof read my CV - I don't bother with my posts on here ![/p][/quote]Christ. Colin Houlson

6:05pm Wed 24 Nov 10

Colin Houlson says...

RottingdeanRant wrote:
Joeinbrighton wrote:
RottingdeanRant wrote:
I would have thought that a simple way to reduce many of the fees is to make the degree course shorter, maybe 2 years or less instead of 3. The students could then be expected to work 5 days a week for 8 hours a day. This I expect would also reduce the problems associated with late night parties.
How would this help exactly? If you are cramming a course into 2 years rather than 3 or 4, it either means that the student would not be completing a full degree, or it would mean they would be cramming more of a syllabus into a shorter space of time. And if it turns out to be the latter, how exactly is a student supposed to get their coursework and required reading done while at one and the same time holding down a full time job? There is such a thing as a work-life balance!
A significant majority of students that I have had contact with in the last 5 years tell me that they only need to go to the uni 1 to 3 days a week and that is normally only for a few hours. Therefore, notwithstanding the course work there is clearly an opportunity to complete the same syllabus within a shorter overall course. I regularly visit student houses and the majority are not up before 10 am or later and most when up appear to be spending a lot of time watching tv and playing games on their computers. Therefore there is amply opportunity to have them work harder for a shorter period and have the same level of instruction.
As I mistakeny commented elsewhere, Christ.
[quote][p][bold]RottingdeanRant[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Joeinbrighton[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]RottingdeanRant[/bold] wrote: I would have thought that a simple way to reduce many of the fees is to make the degree course shorter, maybe 2 years or less instead of 3. The students could then be expected to work 5 days a week for 8 hours a day. This I expect would also reduce the problems associated with late night parties.[/p][/quote]How would this help exactly? If you are cramming a course into 2 years rather than 3 or 4, it either means that the student would not be completing a full degree, or it would mean they would be cramming more of a syllabus into a shorter space of time. And if it turns out to be the latter, how exactly is a student supposed to get their coursework and required reading done while at one and the same time holding down a full time job? There is such a thing as a work-life balance![/p][/quote]A significant majority of students that I have had contact with in the last 5 years tell me that they only need to go to the uni 1 to 3 days a week and that is normally only for a few hours. Therefore, notwithstanding the course work there is clearly an opportunity to complete the same syllabus within a shorter overall course. I regularly visit student houses and the majority are not up before 10 am or later and most when up appear to be spending a lot of time watching tv and playing games on their computers. Therefore there is amply opportunity to have them work harder for a shorter period and have the same level of instruction.[/p][/quote]As I mistakeny commented elsewhere, Christ. Colin Houlson

6:07pm Wed 24 Nov 10

CJ007 says...

Saw a huge group of protesters storming into Poundland on Western Road earlier, shouting and throwing cans at the windows. Imagine what that must've been like for the staff inside. Other shopkeepers were stood at their doors waiting to see if they were going to be next. Quite frightening for the people walking home from work or waiting for a bus too. Some of the protesters looked too young to be students and had their faces covered with scarves. Who would want to support you when you act like this? You should be ashamed of yourselves. Students of today....god help us.
Saw a huge group of protesters storming into Poundland on Western Road earlier, shouting and throwing cans at the windows. Imagine what that must've been like for the staff inside. Other shopkeepers were stood at their doors waiting to see if they were going to be next. Quite frightening for the people walking home from work or waiting for a bus too. Some of the protesters looked too young to be students and had their faces covered with scarves. Who would want to support you when you act like this? You should be ashamed of yourselves. Students of today....god help us. CJ007

6:09pm Wed 24 Nov 10

Fight Back says...

"Christ" - such a well argued point. You're not a Uni student by chance ?
"Christ" - such a well argued point. You're not a Uni student by chance ? Fight Back

6:12pm Wed 24 Nov 10

Fight Back says...

Colin Houlson wrote:
RottingdeanRant wrote:
Joeinbrighton wrote:
RottingdeanRant wrote:
I would have thought that a simple way to reduce many of the fees is to make the degree course shorter, maybe 2 years or less instead of 3. The students could then be expected to work 5 days a week for 8 hours a day. This I expect would also reduce the problems associated with late night parties.
How would this help exactly? If you are cramming a course into 2 years rather than 3 or 4, it either means that the student would not be completing a full degree, or it would mean they would be cramming more of a syllabus into a shorter space of time. And if it turns out to be the latter, how exactly is a student supposed to get their coursework and required reading done while at one and the same time holding down a full time job? There is such a thing as a work-life balance!
A significant majority of students that I have had contact with in the last 5 years tell me that they only need to go to the uni 1 to 3 days a week and that is normally only for a few hours. Therefore, notwithstanding the course work there is clearly an opportunity to complete the same syllabus within a shorter overall course. I regularly visit student houses and the majority are not up before 10 am or later and most when up appear to be spending a lot of time watching tv and playing games on their computers. Therefore there is amply opportunity to have them work harder for a shorter period and have the same level of instruction.
As I mistakeny commented elsewhere, Christ.
And of course, you know it's mistakenly rather than mistakeny !!!!!
[quote][p][bold]Colin Houlson[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]RottingdeanRant[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Joeinbrighton[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]RottingdeanRant[/bold] wrote: I would have thought that a simple way to reduce many of the fees is to make the degree course shorter, maybe 2 years or less instead of 3. The students could then be expected to work 5 days a week for 8 hours a day. This I expect would also reduce the problems associated with late night parties.[/p][/quote]How would this help exactly? If you are cramming a course into 2 years rather than 3 or 4, it either means that the student would not be completing a full degree, or it would mean they would be cramming more of a syllabus into a shorter space of time. And if it turns out to be the latter, how exactly is a student supposed to get their coursework and required reading done while at one and the same time holding down a full time job? There is such a thing as a work-life balance![/p][/quote]A significant majority of students that I have had contact with in the last 5 years tell me that they only need to go to the uni 1 to 3 days a week and that is normally only for a few hours. Therefore, notwithstanding the course work there is clearly an opportunity to complete the same syllabus within a shorter overall course. I regularly visit student houses and the majority are not up before 10 am or later and most when up appear to be spending a lot of time watching tv and playing games on their computers. Therefore there is amply opportunity to have them work harder for a shorter period and have the same level of instruction.[/p][/quote]As I mistakeny commented elsewhere, Christ.[/p][/quote]And of course, you know it's mistakenly rather than mistakeny !!!!! Fight Back

6:16pm Wed 24 Nov 10

RickH says...

Nice to see the 'degree vs no degree 'debate starting again. Before I got my degree, the maximum salary open to me after 12 years or so in the job market was around £20K - pretty good for most folks. Since graduating ten years ago, its now three times that. And to just throw that extra cup of petrol on this heated debate, I did my degree through the OU, so was working at the same time. "The point"? you may ask! "There's more than one way to skin a cat", is the obvious response. And as for the guy who thinks its a good way to sift out CVs based on, in his view excess, qualifications and then defend his own poor spelling and grammar here because this is an online forum (so doesn't count): do you recall the saying about walking the walk, as well as talking the talk? Thought not!
Nice to see the 'degree vs no degree 'debate starting again. Before I got my degree, the maximum salary open to me after 12 years or so in the job market was around £20K - pretty good for most folks. Since graduating ten years ago, its now three times that. And to just throw that extra cup of petrol on this heated debate, I did my degree through the OU, so was working at the same time. "The point"? you may ask! "There's more than one way to skin a cat", is the obvious response. And as for the guy who thinks its a good way to sift out CVs based on, in his view excess, qualifications and then defend his own poor spelling and grammar here because this is an online forum (so doesn't count): do you recall the saying about walking the walk, as well as talking the talk? Thought not! RickH

6:23pm Wed 24 Nov 10

Colin Houlson says...

RickH wrote:
Nice to see the 'degree vs no degree 'debate starting again. Before I got my degree, the maximum salary open to me after 12 years or so in the job market was around £20K - pretty good for most folks. Since graduating ten years ago, its now three times that. And to just throw that extra cup of petrol on this heated debate, I did my degree through the OU, so was working at the same time. "The point"? you may ask! "There's more than one way to skin a cat", is the obvious response. And as for the guy who thinks its a good way to sift out CVs based on, in his view excess, qualifications and then defend his own poor spelling and grammar here because this is an online forum (so doesn't count): do you recall the saying about walking the walk, as well as talking the talk? Thought not!
*doffs cap*
[quote][p][bold]RickH[/bold] wrote: Nice to see the 'degree vs no degree 'debate starting again. Before I got my degree, the maximum salary open to me after 12 years or so in the job market was around £20K - pretty good for most folks. Since graduating ten years ago, its now three times that. And to just throw that extra cup of petrol on this heated debate, I did my degree through the OU, so was working at the same time. "The point"? you may ask! "There's more than one way to skin a cat", is the obvious response. And as for the guy who thinks its a good way to sift out CVs based on, in his view excess, qualifications and then defend his own poor spelling and grammar here because this is an online forum (so doesn't count): do you recall the saying about walking the walk, as well as talking the talk? Thought not![/p][/quote]*doffs cap* Colin Houlson

6:25pm Wed 24 Nov 10

Colin Houlson says...

Fight Back wrote:
"Christ" - such a well argued point. You're not a Uni student by chance ?
No, I'm not. Just dumbfounded by your comment.
[quote][p][bold]Fight Back[/bold] wrote: "Christ" - such a well argued point. You're not a Uni student by chance ?[/p][/quote]No, I'm not. Just dumbfounded by your comment. Colin Houlson

6:27pm Wed 24 Nov 10

Fight Back says...

RickH wrote:
Nice to see the 'degree vs no degree 'debate starting again. Before I got my degree, the maximum salary open to me after 12 years or so in the job market was around £20K - pretty good for most folks. Since graduating ten years ago, its now three times that. And to just throw that extra cup of petrol on this heated debate, I did my degree through the OU, so was working at the same time. "The point"? you may ask! "There's more than one way to skin a cat", is the obvious response. And as for the guy who thinks its a good way to sift out CVs based on, in his view excess, qualifications and then defend his own poor spelling and grammar here because this is an online forum (so doesn't count): do you recall the saying about walking the walk, as well as talking the talk? Thought not!
You've entirely misunderstood my statement. It's nothing to do with excess qualifications, it's to do with degree holders often being unable to construct a decent CV, interview well and generally believing they deserve the job over other people because they have a degree. We'll ignore the grammatical errors in your post so you don't have to "walk the walk".

Online forums are there for casual conversation and debate and so most normal people don't check their posts - it's a flowing and casual statement so doesn't need correct spelling or grammar. Next you're be complaining that texting doesn't use proper spelling !!!!
[quote][p][bold]RickH[/bold] wrote: Nice to see the 'degree vs no degree 'debate starting again. Before I got my degree, the maximum salary open to me after 12 years or so in the job market was around £20K - pretty good for most folks. Since graduating ten years ago, its now three times that. And to just throw that extra cup of petrol on this heated debate, I did my degree through the OU, so was working at the same time. "The point"? you may ask! "There's more than one way to skin a cat", is the obvious response. And as for the guy who thinks its a good way to sift out CVs based on, in his view excess, qualifications and then defend his own poor spelling and grammar here because this is an online forum (so doesn't count): do you recall the saying about walking the walk, as well as talking the talk? Thought not![/p][/quote]You've entirely misunderstood my statement. It's nothing to do with excess qualifications, it's to do with degree holders often being unable to construct a decent CV, interview well and generally believing they deserve the job over other people because they have a degree. We'll ignore the grammatical errors in your post so you don't have to "walk the walk". Online forums are there for casual conversation and debate and so most normal people don't check their posts - it's a flowing and casual statement so doesn't need correct spelling or grammar. Next you're be complaining that texting doesn't use proper spelling !!!! Fight Back

6:31pm Wed 24 Nov 10

Colin Houlson says...

Fight Back wrote:
Colin Houlson wrote:
RottingdeanRant wrote:
Joeinbrighton wrote:
RottingdeanRant wrote:
I would have thought that a simple way to reduce many of the fees is to make the degree course shorter, maybe 2 years or less instead of 3. The students could then be expected to work 5 days a week for 8 hours a day. This I expect would also reduce the problems associated with late night parties.
How would this help exactly? If you are cramming a course into 2 years rather than 3 or 4, it either means that the student would not be completing a full degree, or it would mean they would be cramming more of a syllabus into a shorter space of time. And if it turns out to be the latter, how exactly is a student supposed to get their coursework and required reading done while at one and the same time holding down a full time job? There is such a thing as a work-life balance!
A significant majority of students that I have had contact with in the last 5 years tell me that they only need to go to the uni 1 to 3 days a week and that is normally only for a few hours. Therefore, notwithstanding the course work there is clearly an opportunity to complete the same syllabus within a shorter overall course. I regularly visit student houses and the majority are not up before 10 am or later and most when up appear to be spending a lot of time watching tv and playing games on their computers. Therefore there is amply opportunity to have them work harder for a shorter period and have the same level of instruction.
As I mistakeny commented elsewhere, Christ.
And of course, you know it's mistakenly rather than mistakeny !!!!!
Yep. And you know it's 'ample', 'significant' etc.
[quote][p][bold]Fight Back[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Colin Houlson[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]RottingdeanRant[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Joeinbrighton[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]RottingdeanRant[/bold] wrote: I would have thought that a simple way to reduce many of the fees is to make the degree course shorter, maybe 2 years or less instead of 3. The students could then be expected to work 5 days a week for 8 hours a day. This I expect would also reduce the problems associated with late night parties.[/p][/quote]How would this help exactly? If you are cramming a course into 2 years rather than 3 or 4, it either means that the student would not be completing a full degree, or it would mean they would be cramming more of a syllabus into a shorter space of time. And if it turns out to be the latter, how exactly is a student supposed to get their coursework and required reading done while at one and the same time holding down a full time job? There is such a thing as a work-life balance![/p][/quote]A significant majority of students that I have had contact with in the last 5 years tell me that they only need to go to the uni 1 to 3 days a week and that is normally only for a few hours. Therefore, notwithstanding the course work there is clearly an opportunity to complete the same syllabus within a shorter overall course. I regularly visit student houses and the majority are not up before 10 am or later and most when up appear to be spending a lot of time watching tv and playing games on their computers. Therefore there is amply opportunity to have them work harder for a shorter period and have the same level of instruction.[/p][/quote]As I mistakeny commented elsewhere, Christ.[/p][/quote]And of course, you know it's mistakenly rather than mistakeny !!!!![/p][/quote]Yep. And you know it's 'ample', 'significant' etc. Colin Houlson

6:46pm Wed 24 Nov 10

Colin Houlson says...

And before you leap up in a Pavlovian manner, 'significant etc' was a reference to your whole comment, not your spelling of the word.
And before you leap up in a Pavlovian manner, 'significant etc' was a reference to your whole comment, not your spelling of the word. Colin Houlson

6:49pm Wed 24 Nov 10

pepper1 says...

Some people are so daft, why occupy Priory House? The depts in that building deal with Council Tax and Housing Benefit which are nothing to do with students and education. And Poundland, that is pointless.
Behaviour like this won't change anything.
Some people are so daft, why occupy Priory House? The depts in that building deal with Council Tax and Housing Benefit which are nothing to do with students and education. And Poundland, that is pointless. Behaviour like this won't change anything. pepper1

6:52pm Wed 24 Nov 10

amnezia says...

Just out of curiosity, what do the people moaning about their tax money subsidising education think about the fact that EVERY SINGLE job in the arms industry in this country is subsidised to the sum of at least 9000 pounds (last time I checked)?
Would you rather have your tax money used to fund death or education?
btw, as a student I attended the demonstration and left disgusted just after things started to get violent.
Just out of curiosity, what do the people moaning about their tax money subsidising education think about the fact that EVERY SINGLE job in the arms industry in this country is subsidised to the sum of at least 9000 pounds (last time I checked)? Would you rather have your tax money used to fund death or education? btw, as a student I attended the demonstration and left disgusted just after things started to get violent. amnezia

7:15pm Wed 24 Nov 10

Angryoldman says...

The students are standing up for what's right.
We have for far too long rolled over while the government take take take.
The unions have already called for civil disobedience.
They bail out Ireland for 7 billion pounds, which is more than the cuts taken from welfare.
Now it looks as though we will be bailing out Portugal and Spain.
Not in my name.
A revolution is well overdue in the UK
Well done students.
The students are standing up for what's right. We have for far too long rolled over while the government take take take. The unions have already called for civil disobedience. They bail out Ireland for 7 billion pounds, which is more than the cuts taken from welfare. Now it looks as though we will be bailing out Portugal and Spain. Not in my name. A revolution is well overdue in the UK Well done students. Angryoldman

7:20pm Wed 24 Nov 10

Lorem Ipsum says...

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7:22pm Wed 24 Nov 10

GRANDAD says...

I cant understand the protest against Clegg. Like all other politicians he laid out his manifesto based on forming a Lib dem government. He is now the minority partner in a coalition and can't force through policies that he might prefer. The country is faced with cutbacks (see news on Ireland) so something has to be done in lots of areas to save money, Students are being given, if I understand correctly, an opportunity to pay for their education when they take positions that pay salaries exceeding £21 K. This seems fair to me as you can then decide how badly you want further education and make you aim higher, not just go because all your mates are going. Even apprenticeships, when they were available were paid for by paying a limited wage, which was either partially or fully earned, and then full pay was received on qualifying. So surely if our students are made of the right stuff they will eventually stop and think for themselves how much they really want or need to go to University. They may also realise that all political parties have manifestos and even those voted in, even with the outstanding majority that Labour had, don't or are unable to give all they promised. I understand their disappointment but living in the real world can be very hard, and can get even harder in later years. Everyone should remember that if they get their own way in these times of financial restraint it will be paid for by somebody else. The unions will soon be ignoring this and flexing their muscle so its going to get nasty, for the weaker sections of society who can't demonstrate or strike.
I cant understand the protest against Clegg. Like all other politicians he laid out his manifesto based on forming a Lib dem government. He is now the minority partner in a coalition and can't force through policies that he might prefer. The country is faced with cutbacks (see news on Ireland) so something has to be done in lots of areas to save money, Students are being given, if I understand correctly, an opportunity to pay for their education when they take positions that pay salaries exceeding £21 K. This seems fair to me as you can then decide how badly you want further education and make you aim higher, not just go because all your mates are going. Even apprenticeships, when they were available were paid for by paying a limited wage, which was either partially or fully earned, and then full pay was received on qualifying. So surely if our students are made of the right stuff they will eventually stop and think for themselves how much they really want or need to go to University. They may also realise that all political parties have manifestos and even those voted in, even with the outstanding majority that Labour had, don't or are unable to give all they promised. I understand their disappointment but living in the real world can be very hard, and can get even harder in later years. Everyone should remember that if they get their own way in these times of financial restraint it will be paid for by somebody else. The unions will soon be ignoring this and flexing their muscle so its going to get nasty, for the weaker sections of society who can't demonstrate or strike. GRANDAD

7:28pm Wed 24 Nov 10

Pedroski says...

LtPaperclip wrote:
commentisfree wrote:
Why do you all think it is only about cuts in University education?
You wait until next year when all the new taxes and cuts take effect. You better get in line at the soup kitchens or you will be going hungry .
There are no free rides in life...Students should get part time jobs to pay for extra education and not see free goverment cash as there right.
Come on then clever little man....where are all the part time jobs for the hundreds of thousands of school leavers? And what's this crap about "free government cash"? I got grants for university fees, and loans to support my family (which I'm now paying back) and expect to be effectively repaying my grants through my taxes.

What the government are effectively wanting to do is to still tax people, and then raise more money through people having loans to pay their fees. Surely, if we have to take out loans for university education, then we should all see a reduction in our income tax as we're no longer paying for education through that. But we won't. It's a money making scam that disadvantages those on lower incomes and has no effect on those on higher incomes. The usual Tory stuff.
[quote][p][bold]LtPaperclip[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]commentisfree[/bold] wrote: Why do you all think it is only about cuts in University education?[/p][/quote]You wait until next year when all the new taxes and cuts take effect. You better get in line at the soup kitchens or you will be going hungry . There are no free rides in life...Students should get part time jobs to pay for extra education and not see free goverment cash as there right.[/p][/quote]Come on then clever little man....where are all the part time jobs for the hundreds of thousands of school leavers? And what's this crap about "free government cash"? I got grants for university fees, and loans to support my family (which I'm now paying back) and expect to be effectively repaying my grants through my taxes. What the government are effectively wanting to do is to still tax people, and then raise more money through people having loans to pay their fees. Surely, if we have to take out loans for university education, then we should all see a reduction in our income tax as we're no longer paying for education through that. But we won't. It's a money making scam that disadvantages those on lower incomes and has no effect on those on higher incomes. The usual Tory stuff. Pedroski

7:28pm Wed 24 Nov 10

brunswick63 says...

At the bottom of Farm Road this afternoon were two girls, one of which was holding a sign saying "Medea Studies Students Against Cuts" (took a photo if anyone is interested in seeing it). British higher education at it's finest...
At the bottom of Farm Road this afternoon were two girls, one of which was holding a sign saying "Medea Studies Students Against Cuts" (took a photo if anyone is interested in seeing it). British higher education at it's finest... brunswick63

7:41pm Wed 24 Nov 10

TheInsider says...

The top six per cent of UK young people who are the brigtest should receive full funding.
The others should pay their own way.
Including those doing degrees in 'medea',criminology, PE, catering...the list goes on.
These are hobbies not degree courses and many years ago these courses were free at 16-18.
And why occupy Poundland? I wonder how many business leaders are watching some of the extreme activity and are wirthdrawing sponsorship from universities.
The students really need to get their campaign in order or it's going to lose public support.
The top six per cent of UK young people who are the brigtest should receive full funding. The others should pay their own way. Including those doing degrees in 'medea',criminology, PE, catering...the list goes on. These are hobbies not degree courses and many years ago these courses were free at 16-18. And why occupy Poundland? I wonder how many business leaders are watching some of the extreme activity and are wirthdrawing sponsorship from universities. The students really need to get their campaign in order or it's going to lose public support. TheInsider

7:41pm Wed 24 Nov 10

Bartram says...

Today Poundland
Tomorrow the world!!!!!

Not exactly The Bank of England but they gotta start somewhere
Today Poundland Tomorrow the world!!!!! Not exactly The Bank of England but they gotta start somewhere Bartram

7:47pm Wed 24 Nov 10

heidic1234 says...

Do you know what scares me here. The amount of people who make sweeping statements on students, I have read "they only go in one day a week", "they don't work", "its easy", "they all just drink loads and don't get up till midday".
Do you really think that the millions of students in this country are all doing this?
I go to university because I want to excel in history of art, I want a career in history of art-you try getting a career in this without a degree. Both my working class parents have worked their entire lives and paid taxes, I work part time and pay taxes. I will pay back my loan. I deserve this just as much as some Etonian with a very rich mummy and daddy.
Do you know what scares me here. The amount of people who make sweeping statements on students, I have read "they only go in one day a week", "they don't work", "its easy", "they all just drink loads and don't get up till midday". Do you really think that the millions of students in this country are all doing this? I go to university because I want to excel in history of art, I want a career in history of art-you try getting a career in this without a degree. Both my working class parents have worked their entire lives and paid taxes, I work part time and pay taxes. I will pay back my loan. I deserve this just as much as some Etonian with a very rich mummy and daddy. heidic1234

7:48pm Wed 24 Nov 10

mkb says...

Angryoldman wrote:
The students are standing up for what's right.
We have for far too long rolled over while the government take take take.
The unions have already called for civil disobedience.
They bail out Ireland for 7 billion pounds, which is more than the cuts taken from welfare.
Now it looks as though we will be bailing out Portugal and Spain.
Not in my name.
A revolution is well overdue in the UK
Well done students.
Well said!

Poll at 7.45pm shows 70% in favour of protest :)
[quote][p][bold]Angryoldman[/bold] wrote: The students are standing up for what's right. We have for far too long rolled over while the government take take take. The unions have already called for civil disobedience. They bail out Ireland for 7 billion pounds, which is more than the cuts taken from welfare. Now it looks as though we will be bailing out Portugal and Spain. Not in my name. A revolution is well overdue in the UK Well done students.[/p][/quote]Well said! Poll at 7.45pm shows 70% in favour of protest :) mkb

7:48pm Wed 24 Nov 10

ladwebslinger says...

brunswick63 wrote:
At the bottom of Farm Road this afternoon were two girls, one of which was holding a sign saying "Medea Studies Students Against Cuts" (took a photo if anyone is interested in seeing it). British higher education at it's finest...
Sorry Brunswick 63... but it's: 'British higher education at its finest'.
Probably my Sussex University degree that taught me that. British highest education at its finest indeed: a higher education that was free, and rightly so. More university students benefits society as a whole - we'd not get very far without the doctors, scientists, and dare I say, thinkers and philosophers of this world. More education, not less!
[quote][p][bold]brunswick63[/bold] wrote: At the bottom of Farm Road this afternoon were two girls, one of which was holding a sign saying "Medea Studies Students Against Cuts" (took a photo if anyone is interested in seeing it). British higher education at it's finest...[/p][/quote]Sorry Brunswick 63... but it's: 'British higher education at its finest'. Probably my Sussex University degree that taught me that. British highest education at its finest indeed: a higher education that was free, and rightly so. More university students benefits society as a whole - we'd not get very far without the doctors, scientists, and dare I say, thinkers and philosophers of this world. More education, not less! ladwebslinger

7:51pm Wed 24 Nov 10

Pedroski says...

RottingdeanRant wrote:
I would have thought that a simple way to reduce many of the fees is to make the degree course shorter, maybe 2 years or less instead of 3. The students could then be expected to work 5 days a week for 8 hours a day. This I expect would also reduce the problems associated with late night parties.
What a load of toss. I went to uni as a mature student, after working in dead end jobs for a charge card company for 10 years.....and I did a 3 year degree course, and it certainly wasn't a walk in the park. When you add up time for courses, research, report writing...it really is a full time job. Add on to that a part time job, and there's no way it can all be crammed into 2 years and still have decent content. And so what if people want to blow off some steam in pubs and clubs and have parties? It's all part of life - doing a degree, or any kind of job, should take away from people wanting to enjoy what they're doing. And if it wasn't for students, Brighton and Hove would be a miserable hole full of miserable moaning gits.
[quote][p][bold]RottingdeanRant[/bold] wrote: I would have thought that a simple way to reduce many of the fees is to make the degree course shorter, maybe 2 years or less instead of 3. The students could then be expected to work 5 days a week for 8 hours a day. This I expect would also reduce the problems associated with late night parties.[/p][/quote]What a load of toss. I went to uni as a mature student, after working in dead end jobs for a charge card company for 10 years.....and I did a 3 year degree course, and it certainly wasn't a walk in the park. When you add up time for courses, research, report writing...it really is a full time job. Add on to that a part time job, and there's no way it can all be crammed into 2 years and still have decent content. And so what if people want to blow off some steam in pubs and clubs and have parties? It's all part of life - doing a degree, or any kind of job, should take away from people wanting to enjoy what they're doing. And if it wasn't for students, Brighton and Hove would be a miserable hole full of miserable moaning gits. Pedroski

7:52pm Wed 24 Nov 10

Pedroski says...

Above...I meant "doing a degree, or any kind of job, should NOT take away from people wanting to enjoy what they're doing."
Above...I meant "doing a degree, or any kind of job, should NOT take away from people wanting to enjoy what they're doing." Pedroski

7:55pm Wed 24 Nov 10

TheInsider says...

heidic...you are probably a good student but you have to realise that 20 years ago only 6 per cent of the UK's young people were of university standard and received full funding.
Unis became businesses under the Labour Govt and now almost 50 per cent of UK's young people go to all sorts of colleges calling themselves unis when they were just A level or technical colleges.
As an employer, still only 6 per cent of graduates applying for jobs are the brightest. The rest are Joe Averages who really should have saved their money and took direct entry into the work place.
The poor standard of the UK's higher education system can be demontsrated by the fact that the UK has the highest level of youth unemployment and the highest number of unemployed graduates in 17 years.
This is because the top six per cent get employed and the rest are not good enough.
I have young friends who are students who admit they have five contact hours a week and use the internet to do their course work.
One completed her thesis in one day from start to finish.
We have lost confidence in the quality of the UK education system.
heidic...you are probably a good student but you have to realise that 20 years ago only 6 per cent of the UK's young people were of university standard and received full funding. Unis became businesses under the Labour Govt and now almost 50 per cent of UK's young people go to all sorts of colleges calling themselves unis when they were just A level or technical colleges. As an employer, still only 6 per cent of graduates applying for jobs are the brightest. The rest are Joe Averages who really should have saved their money and took direct entry into the work place. The poor standard of the UK's higher education system can be demontsrated by the fact that the UK has the highest level of youth unemployment and the highest number of unemployed graduates in 17 years. This is because the top six per cent get employed and the rest are not good enough. I have young friends who are students who admit they have five contact hours a week and use the internet to do their course work. One completed her thesis in one day from start to finish. We have lost confidence in the quality of the UK education system. TheInsider

7:55pm Wed 24 Nov 10

Fight Back says...

heidic1234 wrote:
Do you know what scares me here. The amount of people who make sweeping statements on students, I have read "they only go in one day a week", "they don't work", "its easy", "they all just drink loads and don't get up till midday".
Do you really think that the millions of students in this country are all doing this?
I go to university because I want to excel in history of art, I want a career in history of art-you try getting a career in this without a degree. Both my working class parents have worked their entire lives and paid taxes, I work part time and pay taxes. I will pay back my loan. I deserve this just as much as some Etonian with a very rich mummy and daddy.
If you need a degree for a career in that chosen field fine but just expect to pay more for your degree - something that reflects the true cost of the course rather than being heavily dependant upon the taxpayer. I'm not sure I would want my taxes paying for a degree in the History of Art given it doesn't really advance our economy and is a very very select field.
[quote][p][bold]heidic1234[/bold] wrote: Do you know what scares me here. The amount of people who make sweeping statements on students, I have read "they only go in one day a week", "they don't work", "its easy", "they all just drink loads and don't get up till midday". Do you really think that the millions of students in this country are all doing this? I go to university because I want to excel in history of art, I want a career in history of art-you try getting a career in this without a degree. Both my working class parents have worked their entire lives and paid taxes, I work part time and pay taxes. I will pay back my loan. I deserve this just as much as some Etonian with a very rich mummy and daddy.[/p][/quote]If you need a degree for a career in that chosen field fine but just expect to pay more for your degree - something that reflects the true cost of the course rather than being heavily dependant upon the taxpayer. I'm not sure I would want my taxes paying for a degree in the History of Art given it doesn't really advance our economy and is a very very select field. Fight Back

7:58pm Wed 24 Nov 10

heidic1234 says...

Pedroski wrote:
RottingdeanRant wrote:
I would have thought that a simple way to reduce many of the fees is to make the degree course shorter, maybe 2 years or less instead of 3. The students could then be expected to work 5 days a week for 8 hours a day. This I expect would also reduce the problems associated with late night parties.
What a load of toss. I went to uni as a mature student, after working in dead end jobs for a charge card company for 10 years.....and I did a 3 year degree course, and it certainly wasn't a walk in the park. When you add up time for courses, research, report writing...it really is a full time job. Add on to that a part time job, and there's no way it can all be crammed into 2 years and still have decent content. And so what if people want to blow off some steam in pubs and clubs and have parties? It's all part of life - doing a degree, or any kind of job, should take away from people wanting to enjoy what they're doing. And if it wasn't for students, Brighton and Hove would be a miserable hole full of miserable moaning gits.
WELL SAID PEDRISKI! Couldn't agree more. My degree is HARD WORK. I would love some of the whingers on here to write an 8,000 thesis on The Sublime....
[quote][p][bold]Pedroski[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]RottingdeanRant[/bold] wrote: I would have thought that a simple way to reduce many of the fees is to make the degree course shorter, maybe 2 years or less instead of 3. The students could then be expected to work 5 days a week for 8 hours a day. This I expect would also reduce the problems associated with late night parties.[/p][/quote]What a load of toss. I went to uni as a mature student, after working in dead end jobs for a charge card company for 10 years.....and I did a 3 year degree course, and it certainly wasn't a walk in the park. When you add up time for courses, research, report writing...it really is a full time job. Add on to that a part time job, and there's no way it can all be crammed into 2 years and still have decent content. And so what if people want to blow off some steam in pubs and clubs and have parties? It's all part of life - doing a degree, or any kind of job, should take away from people wanting to enjoy what they're doing. And if it wasn't for students, Brighton and Hove would be a miserable hole full of miserable moaning gits.[/p][/quote]WELL SAID PEDRISKI! Couldn't agree more. My degree is HARD WORK. I would love some of the whingers on here to write an 8,000 thesis on The Sublime.... heidic1234

7:59pm Wed 24 Nov 10

Pedroski says...

And all you gits moaning about students......I expect you're also the gits who moan when you can't understand what your dentist says, or what your doctor says, or what the nurse says......**** those pesky foreign accents. Well, maybe you want more of that then, because if kids are dissuaded from going to uni, then more and more of the dentists, doctors and nurses that you need as you're getting into crumbly old age will be brought in from overseas.....at great expense.
And all you gits moaning about students......I expect you're also the gits who moan when you can't understand what your dentist says, or what your doctor says, or what the nurse says......**** those pesky foreign accents. Well, maybe you want more of that then, because if kids are dissuaded from going to uni, then more and more of the dentists, doctors and nurses that you need as you're getting into crumbly old age will be brought in from overseas.....at great expense. Pedroski

8:02pm Wed 24 Nov 10

Skippah says...

heidic1234 wrote:
Do you know what scares me here. The amount of people who make sweeping statements on students, I have read "they only go in one day a week", "they don't work", "its easy", "they all just drink loads and don't get up till midday".
Do you really think that the millions of students in this country are all doing this?
I go to university because I want to excel in history of art, I want a career in history of art-you try getting a career in this without a degree. Both my working class parents have worked their entire lives and paid taxes, I work part time and pay taxes. I will pay back my loan. I deserve this just as much as some Etonian with a very rich mummy and daddy.
You do deserve it as much as an Etonian, yes. That's why you are lent the money to pay for your university education at rather favourable rates and only expected to pay it back once you are earning enough. A point that is being extended to £21k and will have a sliding scale on how much you pay back depending on your ability to pay. I think it's rather fair terms on a loan. It's either that or go back to only letting the brightest into universities and heavily subsidising those, you cant have it both ways.
.
Either only a few go to uni, who we can afford to help more with fees or loads of people go and they will have to pay for the privilege. And only when they can financially afford to pay as well.
[quote][p][bold]heidic1234[/bold] wrote: Do you know what scares me here. The amount of people who make sweeping statements on students, I have read "they only go in one day a week", "they don't work", "its easy", "they all just drink loads and don't get up till midday". Do you really think that the millions of students in this country are all doing this? I go to university because I want to excel in history of art, I want a career in history of art-you try getting a career in this without a degree. Both my working class parents have worked their entire lives and paid taxes, I work part time and pay taxes. I will pay back my loan. I deserve this just as much as some Etonian with a very rich mummy and daddy.[/p][/quote]You do deserve it as much as an Etonian, yes. That's why you are lent the money to pay for your university education at rather favourable rates and only expected to pay it back once you are earning enough. A point that is being extended to £21k and will have a sliding scale on how much you pay back depending on your ability to pay. I think it's rather fair terms on a loan. It's either that or go back to only letting the brightest into universities and heavily subsidising those, you cant have it both ways. . Either only a few go to uni, who we can afford to help more with fees or loads of people go and they will have to pay for the privilege. And only when they can financially afford to pay as well. Skippah

8:03pm Wed 24 Nov 10

heidic1234 says...

Fight Back wrote:
heidic1234 wrote:
Do you know what scares me here. The amount of people who make sweeping statements on students, I have read "they only go in one day a week", "they don't work", "its easy", "they all just drink loads and don't get up till midday".
Do you really think that the millions of students in this country are all doing this?
I go to university because I want to excel in history of art, I want a career in history of art-you try getting a career in this without a degree. Both my working class parents have worked their entire lives and paid taxes, I work part time and pay taxes. I will pay back my loan. I deserve this just as much as some Etonian with a very rich mummy and daddy.
If you need a degree for a career in that chosen field fine but just expect to pay more for your degree - something that reflects the true cost of the course rather than being heavily dependant upon the taxpayer. I'm not sure I would want my taxes paying for a degree in the History of Art given it doesn't really advance our economy and is a very very select field.
I am a taxpayer too. It is a LOAN I have received, not a handout.
I am not very good at things that may "benefit the economy". Also, I think you will find that art does benefit the economy. Do you know how many tourists visit the British Museum? Do you know how much money British Artists bring to this country, at the base of culture there is always money to be made. Not that I care for money, I just want to be happy and love my job. Maybe that's the difference between you and I.
[quote][p][bold]Fight Back[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]heidic1234[/bold] wrote: Do you know what scares me here. The amount of people who make sweeping statements on students, I have read "they only go in one day a week", "they don't work", "its easy", "they all just drink loads and don't get up till midday". Do you really think that the millions of students in this country are all doing this? I go to university because I want to excel in history of art, I want a career in history of art-you try getting a career in this without a degree. Both my working class parents have worked their entire lives and paid taxes, I work part time and pay taxes. I will pay back my loan. I deserve this just as much as some Etonian with a very rich mummy and daddy.[/p][/quote]If you need a degree for a career in that chosen field fine but just expect to pay more for your degree - something that reflects the true cost of the course rather than being heavily dependant upon the taxpayer. I'm not sure I would want my taxes paying for a degree in the History of Art given it doesn't really advance our economy and is a very very select field.[/p][/quote]I am a taxpayer too. It is a LOAN I have received, not a handout. I am not very good at things that may "benefit the economy". Also, I think you will find that art does benefit the economy. Do you know how many tourists visit the British Museum? Do you know how much money British Artists bring to this country, at the base of culture there is always money to be made. Not that I care for money, I just want to be happy and love my job. Maybe that's the difference between you and I. heidic1234

8:08pm Wed 24 Nov 10

Pedroski says...

Fight Back wrote:
heidic1234 wrote:
Do you know what scares me here. The amount of people who make sweeping statements on students, I have read "they only go in one day a week", "they don't work", "its easy", "they all just drink loads and don't get up till midday".
Do you really think that the millions of students in this country are all doing this?
I go to university because I want to excel in history of art, I want a career in history of art-you try getting a career in this without a degree. Both my working class parents have worked their entire lives and paid taxes, I work part time and pay taxes. I will pay back my loan. I deserve this just as much as some Etonian with a very rich mummy and daddy.
If you need a degree for a career in that chosen field fine but just expect to pay more for your degree - something that reflects the true cost of the course rather than being heavily dependant upon the taxpayer. I'm not sure I would want my taxes paying for a degree in the History of Art given it doesn't really advance our economy and is a very very select field.
Fightback....you're missing the point. A degree in History of Art, if it allows Heidi to work in the field that she wants, DOES advance our economy. It means Heidi will get a job she enjoys, which is paying her money, on which she is paying income tax, and paying VAT on goods she buys, and paying a mortgage/rent. I'd be more than happy for some of my taxes to go towards that. It's all part of what makes drives the economy. And I'd rather support that, than have my money being spent on the war machine, or on sucking up to the Americans, or.....a whole list of other things.
[quote][p][bold]Fight Back[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]heidic1234[/bold] wrote: Do you know what scares me here. The amount of people who make sweeping statements on students, I have read "they only go in one day a week", "they don't work", "its easy", "they all just drink loads and don't get up till midday". Do you really think that the millions of students in this country are all doing this? I go to university because I want to excel in history of art, I want a career in history of art-you try getting a career in this without a degree. Both my working class parents have worked their entire lives and paid taxes, I work part time and pay taxes. I will pay back my loan. I deserve this just as much as some Etonian with a very rich mummy and daddy.[/p][/quote]If you need a degree for a career in that chosen field fine but just expect to pay more for your degree - something that reflects the true cost of the course rather than being heavily dependant upon the taxpayer. I'm not sure I would want my taxes paying for a degree in the History of Art given it doesn't really advance our economy and is a very very select field.[/p][/quote]Fightback....you're missing the point. A degree in History of Art, if it allows Heidi to work in the field that she wants, DOES advance our economy. It means Heidi will get a job she enjoys, which is paying her money, on which she is paying income tax, and paying VAT on goods she buys, and paying a mortgage/rent. I'd be more than happy for some of my taxes to go towards that. It's all part of what makes drives the economy. And I'd rather support that, than have my money being spent on the war machine, or on sucking up to the Americans, or.....a whole list of other things. Pedroski

8:08pm Wed 24 Nov 10

heidic1234 says...

Skippah wrote:
heidic1234 wrote:
Do you know what scares me here. The amount of people who make sweeping statements on students, I have read "they only go in one day a week", "they don't work", "its easy", "they all just drink loads and don't get up till midday".
Do you really think that the millions of students in this country are all doing this?
I go to university because I want to excel in history of art, I want a career in history of art-you try getting a career in this without a degree. Both my working class parents have worked their entire lives and paid taxes, I work part time and pay taxes. I will pay back my loan. I deserve this just as much as some Etonian with a very rich mummy and daddy.
You do deserve it as much as an Etonian, yes. That's why you are lent the money to pay for your university education at rather favourable rates and only expected to pay it back once you are earning enough. A point that is being extended to £21k and will have a sliding scale on how much you pay back depending on your ability to pay. I think it's rather fair terms on a loan. It's either that or go back to only letting the brightest into universities and heavily subsidising those, you cant have it both ways.
.
Either only a few go to uni, who we can afford to help more with fees or loads of people go and they will have to pay for the privilege. And only when they can financially afford to pay as well.
But the point is, If I were 18 and received three A's in my a-levels (which I did) I would be put off by the debt. I am not wealthy and neither are my parents. Just because I would receive a loan doesn't mean I would go. The loan would be terrifying amount and that's without the maintenance loans!
It's scaremongering the poorest (and even the middle classes) out of university and they aren't providing any alternatives!
[quote][p][bold]Skippah[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]heidic1234[/bold] wrote: Do you know what scares me here. The amount of people who make sweeping statements on students, I have read "they only go in one day a week", "they don't work", "its easy", "they all just drink loads and don't get up till midday". Do you really think that the millions of students in this country are all doing this? I go to university because I want to excel in history of art, I want a career in history of art-you try getting a career in this without a degree. Both my working class parents have worked their entire lives and paid taxes, I work part time and pay taxes. I will pay back my loan. I deserve this just as much as some Etonian with a very rich mummy and daddy.[/p][/quote]You do deserve it as much as an Etonian, yes. That's why you are lent the money to pay for your university education at rather favourable rates and only expected to pay it back once you are earning enough. A point that is being extended to £21k and will have a sliding scale on how much you pay back depending on your ability to pay. I think it's rather fair terms on a loan. It's either that or go back to only letting the brightest into universities and heavily subsidising those, you cant have it both ways. . Either only a few go to uni, who we can afford to help more with fees or loads of people go and they will have to pay for the privilege. And only when they can financially afford to pay as well.[/p][/quote]But the point is, If I were 18 and received three A's in my a-levels (which I did) I would be put off by the debt. I am not wealthy and neither are my parents. Just because I would receive a loan doesn't mean I would go. The loan would be terrifying amount and that's without the maintenance loans! It's scaremongering the poorest (and even the middle classes) out of university and they aren't providing any alternatives! heidic1234

8:14pm Wed 24 Nov 10

deve says...

Would it make sense for universities to open more along business lines. Students work 5 days a week, 9 to 5, holidays should be about what an average company gives staff - say max 30 days. Currently a University year is about 30 weeks, students work say 3 or 4 days. That is not very useful to anyone. Make it say a 45 week year and 5 days per week. This gives students more ideas about working life, makes them realise university is hard work - like a real job. They shorten their courses, run up less debt, are more ready for work. They wont see University as a shelter from the real world, and employers know the students who get through and succeed are worth employing. Taxpayers get more bang for their bucks as they are not subsidising empty universities and dead time. Maybe this would gee up some of the lectures as well ! Less time to protest as well - like most working people !
Would it make sense for universities to open more along business lines. Students work 5 days a week, 9 to 5, holidays should be about what an average company gives staff - say max 30 days. Currently a University year is about 30 weeks, students work say 3 or 4 days. That is not very useful to anyone. Make it say a 45 week year and 5 days per week. This gives students more ideas about working life, makes them realise university is hard work - like a real job. They shorten their courses, run up less debt, are more ready for work. They wont see University as a shelter from the real world, and employers know the students who get through and succeed are worth employing. Taxpayers get more bang for their bucks as they are not subsidising empty universities and dead time. Maybe this would gee up some of the lectures as well ! Less time to protest as well - like most working people ! deve

8:19pm Wed 24 Nov 10

Fight Back says...

Pedroski wrote:
Fight Back wrote:
heidic1234 wrote:
Do you know what scares me here. The amount of people who make sweeping statements on students, I have read "they only go in one day a week", "they don't work", "its easy", "they all just drink loads and don't get up till midday".
Do you really think that the millions of students in this country are all doing this?
I go to university because I want to excel in history of art, I want a career in history of art-you try getting a career in this without a degree. Both my working class parents have worked their entire lives and paid taxes, I work part time and pay taxes. I will pay back my loan. I deserve this just as much as some Etonian with a very rich mummy and daddy.
If you need a degree for a career in that chosen field fine but just expect to pay more for your degree - something that reflects the true cost of the course rather than being heavily dependant upon the taxpayer. I'm not sure I would want my taxes paying for a degree in the History of Art given it doesn't really advance our economy and is a very very select field.
Fightback....you're missing the point. A degree in History of Art, if it allows Heidi to work in the field that she wants, DOES advance our economy. It means Heidi will get a job she enjoys, which is paying her money, on which she is paying income tax, and paying VAT on goods she buys, and paying a mortgage/rent. I'd be more than happy for some of my taxes to go towards that. It's all part of what makes drives the economy. And I'd rather support that, than have my money being spent on the war machine, or on sucking up to the Americans, or.....a whole list of other things.
I agree on the war machine etc but the taxpayer shouldn't be helping to fund courses that just enable people to pay tax - people do that in any job regardless of a degree. A degree in medicine, science, information technology etc will allow the country to grow services to grow the economy - History of Art doesn't have much of a bearing on growing the econony.
[quote][p][bold]Pedroski[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Fight Back[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]heidic1234[/bold] wrote: Do you know what scares me here. The amount of people who make sweeping statements on students, I have read "they only go in one day a week", "they don't work", "its easy", "they all just drink loads and don't get up till midday". Do you really think that the millions of students in this country are all doing this? I go to university because I want to excel in history of art, I want a career in history of art-you try getting a career in this without a degree. Both my working class parents have worked their entire lives and paid taxes, I work part time and pay taxes. I will pay back my loan. I deserve this just as much as some Etonian with a very rich mummy and daddy.[/p][/quote]If you need a degree for a career in that chosen field fine but just expect to pay more for your degree - something that reflects the true cost of the course rather than being heavily dependant upon the taxpayer. I'm not sure I would want my taxes paying for a degree in the History of Art given it doesn't really advance our economy and is a very very select field.[/p][/quote]Fightback....you're missing the point. A degree in History of Art, if it allows Heidi to work in the field that she wants, DOES advance our economy. It means Heidi will get a job she enjoys, which is paying her money, on which she is paying income tax, and paying VAT on goods she buys, and paying a mortgage/rent. I'd be more than happy for some of my taxes to go towards that. It's all part of what makes drives the economy. And I'd rather support that, than have my money being spent on the war machine, or on sucking up to the Americans, or.....a whole list of other things.[/p][/quote]I agree on the war machine etc but the taxpayer shouldn't be helping to fund courses that just enable people to pay tax - people do that in any job regardless of a degree. A degree in medicine, science, information technology etc will allow the country to grow services to grow the economy - History of Art doesn't have much of a bearing on growing the econony. Fight Back

8:24pm Wed 24 Nov 10

chris elmes says...

brunswick63 wrote:
Had to laugh at the banner currently flying outside the window of the middle flat of 19 Brunswick Place; "Brunswick Place Is A Student Street We have A Human Right To Get Degrees". Pretty much demonstrates the mind-boggling intellect of todays students...
Hmm.....Yes there's nothing like a sense of entitlement is there?
[quote][p][bold]brunswick63[/bold] wrote: Had to laugh at the banner currently flying outside the window of the middle flat of 19 Brunswick Place; "Brunswick Place Is A Student Street We have A Human Right To Get Degrees". Pretty much demonstrates the mind-boggling intellect of todays students...[/p][/quote]Hmm.....Yes there's nothing like a sense of entitlement is there? chris elmes

8:27pm Wed 24 Nov 10

Pedroski says...

Fight Back wrote:
Pedroski wrote:
Fight Back wrote:
heidic1234 wrote:
Do you know what scares me here. The amount of people who make sweeping statements on students, I have read "they only go in one day a week", "they don't work", "its easy", "they all just drink loads and don't get up till midday".
Do you really think that the millions of students in this country are all doing this?
I go to university because I want to excel in history of art, I want a career in history of art-you try getting a career in this without a degree. Both my working class parents have worked their entire lives and paid taxes, I work part time and pay taxes. I will pay back my loan. I deserve this just as much as some Etonian with a very rich mummy and daddy.
If you need a degree for a career in that chosen field fine but just expect to pay more for your degree - something that reflects the true cost of the course rather than being heavily dependant upon the taxpayer. I'm not sure I would want my taxes paying for a degree in the History of Art given it doesn't really advance our economy and is a very very select field.
Fightback....you're missing the point. A degree in History of Art, if it allows Heidi to work in the field that she wants, DOES advance our economy. It means Heidi will get a job she enjoys, which is paying her money, on which she is paying income tax, and paying VAT on goods she buys, and paying a mortgage/rent. I'd be more than happy for some of my taxes to go towards that. It's all part of what makes drives the economy. And I'd rather support that, than have my money being spent on the war machine, or on sucking up to the Americans, or.....a whole list of other things.
I agree on the war machine etc but the taxpayer shouldn't be helping to fund courses that just enable people to pay tax - people do that in any job regardless of a degree. A degree in medicine, science, information technology etc will allow the country to grow services to grow the economy - History of Art doesn't have much of a bearing on growing the econony.
Ahhh, well here lies the issue. You say that tax shouldn't be used to fund degrees that just enable people to pay tax. Well, the government has stated, in its justification for the £9000/year fees, that the average degree student will go on to earn, on average, £100,000 more during their working life than someone without a degree. So surely, tax is being used to enable someone to get a degree that will then enable that person to pay MORE tax than someone without a degree. What is the problem with that? As it is, the government want students to pay MORE for their degree, and then MORE in tax. Typical double taxing again.
[quote][p][bold]Fight Back[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Pedroski[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Fight Back[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]heidic1234[/bold] wrote: Do you know what scares me here. The amount of people who make sweeping statements on students, I have read "they only go in one day a week", "they don't work", "its easy", "they all just drink loads and don't get up till midday". Do you really think that the millions of students in this country are all doing this? I go to university because I want to excel in history of art, I want a career in history of art-you try getting a career in this without a degree. Both my working class parents have worked their entire lives and paid taxes, I work part time and pay taxes. I will pay back my loan. I deserve this just as much as some Etonian with a very rich mummy and daddy.[/p][/quote]If you need a degree for a career in that chosen field fine but just expect to pay more for your degree - something that reflects the true cost of the course rather than being heavily dependant upon the taxpayer. I'm not sure I would want my taxes paying for a degree in the History of Art given it doesn't really advance our economy and is a very very select field.[/p][/quote]Fightback....you're missing the point. A degree in History of Art, if it allows Heidi to work in the field that she wants, DOES advance our economy. It means Heidi will get a job she enjoys, which is paying her money, on which she is paying income tax, and paying VAT on goods she buys, and paying a mortgage/rent. I'd be more than happy for some of my taxes to go towards that. It's all part of what makes drives the economy. And I'd rather support that, than have my money being spent on the war machine, or on sucking up to the Americans, or.....a whole list of other things.[/p][/quote]I agree on the war machine etc but the taxpayer shouldn't be helping to fund courses that just enable people to pay tax - people do that in any job regardless of a degree. A degree in medicine, science, information technology etc will allow the country to grow services to grow the economy - History of Art doesn't have much of a bearing on growing the econony.[/p][/quote]Ahhh, well here lies the issue. You say that tax shouldn't be used to fund degrees that just enable people to pay tax. Well, the government has stated, in its justification for the £9000/year fees, that the average degree student will go on to earn, on average, £100,000 more during their working life than someone without a degree. So surely, tax is being used to enable someone to get a degree that will then enable that person to pay MORE tax than someone without a degree. What is the problem with that? As it is, the government want students to pay MORE for their degree, and then MORE in tax. Typical double taxing again. Pedroski

8:27pm Wed 24 Nov 10

Ballroom Blitz says...

deve wrote:
Would it make sense for universities to open more along business lines. Students work 5 days a week, 9 to 5, holidays should be about what an average company gives staff - say max 30 days. Currently a University year is about 30 weeks, students work say 3 or 4 days. That is not very useful to anyone. Make it say a 45 week year and 5 days per week. This gives students more ideas about working life, makes them realise university is hard work - like a real job. They shorten their courses, run up less debt, are more ready for work. They wont see University as a shelter from the real world, and employers know the students who get through and succeed are worth employing. Taxpayers get more bang for their bucks as they are not subsidising empty universities and dead time. Maybe this would gee up some of the lectures as well ! Less time to protest as well - like most working people !
Best post on this board. That's really thinking outside the box.
[quote][p][bold]deve[/bold] wrote: Would it make sense for universities to open more along business lines. Students work 5 days a week, 9 to 5, holidays should be about what an average company gives staff - say max 30 days. Currently a University year is about 30 weeks, students work say 3 or 4 days. That is not very useful to anyone. Make it say a 45 week year and 5 days per week. This gives students more ideas about working life, makes them realise university is hard work - like a real job. They shorten their courses, run up less debt, are more ready for work. They wont see University as a shelter from the real world, and employers know the students who get through and succeed are worth employing. Taxpayers get more bang for their bucks as they are not subsidising empty universities and dead time. Maybe this would gee up some of the lectures as well ! Less time to protest as well - like most working people ![/p][/quote]Best post on this board. That's really thinking outside the box. Ballroom Blitz

8:33pm Wed 24 Nov 10

Pedroski says...

Ballroom Blitz wrote:
deve wrote:
Would it make sense for universities to open more along business lines. Students work 5 days a week, 9 to 5, holidays should be about what an average company gives staff - say max 30 days. Currently a University year is about 30 weeks, students work say 3 or 4 days. That is not very useful to anyone. Make it say a 45 week year and 5 days per week. This gives students more ideas about working life, makes them realise university is hard work - like a real job. They shorten their courses, run up less debt, are more ready for work. They wont see University as a shelter from the real world, and employers know the students who get through and succeed are worth employing. Taxpayers get more bang for their bucks as they are not subsidising empty universities and dead time. Maybe this would gee up some of the lectures as well ! Less time to protest as well - like most working people !
Best post on this board. That's really thinking outside the box.
No mate. The problem is that students are NOT paid. They don't receive a LIVING WAGE. And so the extra time off is usually put to use in working to earn money to subsidise their income. Also remember, that it is usually their parents, who are usually tax payers, who also end up having to subsidise their offspring to help them through university. Unless students were paid a living wage to go to university then being completely full time for the whole of the year is not possible.
[quote][p][bold]Ballroom Blitz[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]deve[/bold] wrote: Would it make sense for universities to open more along business lines. Students work 5 days a week, 9 to 5, holidays should be about what an average company gives staff - say max 30 days. Currently a University year is about 30 weeks, students work say 3 or 4 days. That is not very useful to anyone. Make it say a 45 week year and 5 days per week. This gives students more ideas about working life, makes them realise university is hard work - like a real job. They shorten their courses, run up less debt, are more ready for work. They wont see University as a shelter from the real world, and employers know the students who get through and succeed are worth employing. Taxpayers get more bang for their bucks as they are not subsidising empty universities and dead time. Maybe this would gee up some of the lectures as well ! Less time to protest as well - like most working people ![/p][/quote]Best post on this board. That's really thinking outside the box.[/p][/quote]No mate. The problem is that students are NOT paid. They don't receive a LIVING WAGE. And so the extra time off is usually put to use in working to earn money to subsidise their income. Also remember, that it is usually their parents, who are usually tax payers, who also end up having to subsidise their offspring to help them through university. Unless students were paid a living wage to go to university then being completely full time for the whole of the year is not possible. Pedroski

8:41pm Wed 24 Nov 10

Ballroom Blitz says...

Pedroski wrote:
Ballroom Blitz wrote:
deve wrote: Would it make sense for universities to open more along business lines. Students work 5 days a week, 9 to 5, holidays should be about what an average company gives staff - say max 30 days. Currently a University year is about 30 weeks, students work say 3 or 4 days. That is not very useful to anyone. Make it say a 45 week year and 5 days per week. This gives students more ideas about working life, makes them realise university is hard work - like a real job. They shorten their courses, run up less debt, are more ready for work. They wont see University as a shelter from the real world, and employers know the students who get through and succeed are worth employing. Taxpayers get more bang for their bucks as they are not subsidising empty universities and dead time. Maybe this would gee up some of the lectures as well ! Less time to protest as well - like most working people !
Best post on this board. That's really thinking outside the box.
No mate. The problem is that students are NOT paid. They don't receive a LIVING WAGE. And so the extra time off is usually put to use in working to earn money to subsidise their income. Also remember, that it is usually their parents, who are usually tax payers, who also end up having to subsidise their offspring to help them through university. Unless students were paid a living wage to go to university then being completely full time for the whole of the year is not possible.
I have said several times on these boards that I think university education should be given a full grant as it was before. But in return I think that deve's guidelines would make sense.
But there are FAR TOO MANY people getting degrees. The numbers need to be cut by about 50%
[quote][p][bold]Pedroski[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Ballroom Blitz[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]deve[/bold] wrote: Would it make sense for universities to open more along business lines. Students work 5 days a week, 9 to 5, holidays should be about what an average company gives staff - say max 30 days. Currently a University year is about 30 weeks, students work say 3 or 4 days. That is not very useful to anyone. Make it say a 45 week year and 5 days per week. This gives students more ideas about working life, makes them realise university is hard work - like a real job. They shorten their courses, run up less debt, are more ready for work. They wont see University as a shelter from the real world, and employers know the students who get through and succeed are worth employing. Taxpayers get more bang for their bucks as they are not subsidising empty universities and dead time. Maybe this would gee up some of the lectures as well ! Less time to protest as well - like most working people ![/p][/quote]Best post on this board. That's really thinking outside the box.[/p][/quote]No mate. The problem is that students are NOT paid. They don't receive a LIVING WAGE. And so the extra time off is usually put to use in working to earn money to subsidise their income. Also remember, that it is usually their parents, who are usually tax payers, who also end up having to subsidise their offspring to help them through university. Unless students were paid a living wage to go to university then being completely full time for the whole of the year is not possible.[/p][/quote]I have said several times on these boards that I think university education should be given a full grant as it was before. But in return I think that deve's guidelines would make sense. But there are FAR TOO MANY people getting degrees. The numbers need to be cut by about 50% Ballroom Blitz

8:45pm Wed 24 Nov 10

mkb says...

Lets not forget that Dave, whilst in China, said that the fees British students are to be charged will enable foreign students to come over here and be educated CHEAPER!!!

Surely but this logic is skewed - foreign students should be paying MORE than those born and bred in this country.
Lets not forget that Dave, whilst in China, said that the fees British students are to be charged will enable foreign students to come over here and be educated CHEAPER!!! Surely but this logic is skewed - foreign students should be paying MORE than those born and bred in this country. mkb

8:54pm Wed 24 Nov 10

golf crazy says...

We should do what the french do in these situations,Get the water cannons out, give em a good soaking
We should do what the french do in these situations,Get the water cannons out, give em a good soaking golf crazy

8:58pm Wed 24 Nov 10

chroma says...

golf crazy wrote:
We should do what the french do in these situations,Get the water cannons out, give em a good soaking
May be, but you're overlooking what protesters do in France, and if Brighton were France tonight, it would be on fire and widespread rioting on the streets. Don't believe for a moment that France's tough policing stance has any positive effect on protesters behaviour. It doesn't. If anything, if aggravates it.
[quote][p][bold]golf crazy[/bold] wrote: We should do what the french do in these situations,Get the water cannons out, give em a good soaking[/p][/quote]May be, but you're overlooking what protesters do in France, and if Brighton were France tonight, it would be on fire and widespread rioting on the streets. Don't believe for a moment that France's tough policing stance has any positive effect on protesters behaviour. It doesn't. If anything, if aggravates it. chroma

9:01pm Wed 24 Nov 10

Tracey says...

Loads of silly teenage kids nicked fruit from my stall, not sure how this will help their cause, they were violent and completely out of control, i seriously cannot have any respect for these little s**ts!
Loads of silly teenage kids nicked fruit from my stall, not sure how this will help their cause, they were violent and completely out of control, i seriously cannot have any respect for these little s**ts! Tracey

9:12pm Wed 24 Nov 10

TheInsider says...

If you study GCSEs or A levels a few parents can hire a tutor for a few quid a week and get a handful of kids through the exams for a very small investment.
Why don't some students just get together and hire a lecturer or are universities closed shops where only they can award degrees or can students 'sit' degrees with independent tutoring.
If you study GCSEs or A levels a few parents can hire a tutor for a few quid a week and get a handful of kids through the exams for a very small investment. Why don't some students just get together and hire a lecturer or are universities closed shops where only they can award degrees or can students 'sit' degrees with independent tutoring. TheInsider

9:17pm Wed 24 Nov 10

golf crazy says...

chroma wrote:
golf crazy wrote: We should do what the french do in these situations,Get the water cannons out, give em a good soaking
May be, but you're overlooking what protesters do in France, and if Brighton were France tonight, it would be on fire and widespread rioting on the streets. Don't believe for a moment that France's tough policing stance has any positive effect on protesters behaviour. It doesn't. If anything, if aggravates it.
Yes probably,but if you let these people take an inch they will take a mile,all the time they are not getting punished for criminal damage such as what happened in London recently,the violence and damage will escalate
[quote][p][bold]chroma[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]golf crazy[/bold] wrote: We should do what the french do in these situations,Get the water cannons out, give em a good soaking[/p][/quote]May be, but you're overlooking what protesters do in France, and if Brighton were France tonight, it would be on fire and widespread rioting on the streets. Don't believe for a moment that France's tough policing stance has any positive effect on protesters behaviour. It doesn't. If anything, if aggravates it.[/p][/quote]Yes probably,but if you let these people take an inch they will take a mile,all the time they are not getting punished for criminal damage such as what happened in London recently,the violence and damage will escalate golf crazy

9:29pm Wed 24 Nov 10

Laug says...

ladwebslinger wrote:
brunswick63 wrote: At the bottom of Farm Road this afternoon were two girls, one of which was holding a sign saying "Medea Studies Students Against Cuts" (took a photo if anyone is interested in seeing it). British higher education at it's finest...
Sorry Brunswick 63... but it's: 'British higher education at its finest'. Probably my Sussex University degree that taught me that. British highest education at its finest indeed: a higher education that was free, and rightly so. More university students benefits society as a whole - we'd not get very far without the doctors, scientists, and dare I say, thinkers and philosophers of this world. More education, not less!
FINALLY!!! Someone who sees sense and realises that doctors and other much needed and well respected people do need a decent education. So many people are going on about how they have little respect for students that are protesting but what will their views be when they have finished their courses? Eventually there will be less doctors etc. as there is little incentive to go into education. It will be these people who fail to realise how important some students may go on to be that will suffer in the long term.
[quote][p][bold]ladwebslinger[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]brunswick63[/bold] wrote: At the bottom of Farm Road this afternoon were two girls, one of which was holding a sign saying "Medea Studies Students Against Cuts" (took a photo if anyone is interested in seeing it). British higher education at it's finest...[/p][/quote]Sorry Brunswick 63... but it's: 'British higher education at its finest'. Probably my Sussex University degree that taught me that. British highest education at its finest indeed: a higher education that was free, and rightly so. More university students benefits society as a whole - we'd not get very far without the doctors, scientists, and dare I say, thinkers and philosophers of this world. More education, not less![/p][/quote]FINALLY!!! Someone who sees sense and realises that doctors and other much needed and well respected people do need a decent education. So many people are going on about how they have little respect for students that are protesting but what will their views be when they have finished their courses? Eventually there will be less doctors etc. as there is little incentive to go into education. It will be these people who fail to realise how important some students may go on to be that will suffer in the long term. Laug

9:43pm Wed 24 Nov 10

Johnboy123 says...

As a gradaute who left uni in march many students might find my comments slightly ironic. However I feel the students protesters causing violence are anarchist only interested in causing mayhem and trouble. The problem I have found is that is doesn't benefit you anymore having a degree. When I left university I couldn't get a job. I feel that like my other friends from uni that there has no become too many people going uni, which doesn't give you the USP over others as so many people have a degree these days.  I worked bloody hard at uni to get a good mark, however so does the tax payer who gets up every morning an goes to work. They shouldn't of have had to pay for my education as I was the one who choose to go to uni. The country is in a financial mess and the country doesn't need politically motivated academics whipping up even more hysteria over every cut, from a government who didn't even get us in the mess! 
As a gradaute who left uni in march many students might find my comments slightly ironic. However I feel the students protesters causing violence are anarchist only interested in causing mayhem and trouble. The problem I have found is that is doesn't benefit you anymore having a degree. When I left university I couldn't get a job. I feel that like my other friends from uni that there has no become too many people going uni, which doesn't give you the USP over others as so many people have a degree these days.  I worked bloody hard at uni to get a good mark, however so does the tax payer who gets up every morning an goes to work. They shouldn't of have had to pay for my education as I was the one who choose to go to uni. The country is in a financial mess and the country doesn't need politically motivated academics whipping up even more hysteria over every cut, from a government who didn't even get us in the mess!  Johnboy123

9:48pm Wed 24 Nov 10

Fight Back says...

Johnboy123 wrote:
As a gradaute who left uni in march many students might find my comments slightly ironic. However I feel the students protesters causing violence are anarchist only interested in causing mayhem and trouble. The problem I have found is that is doesn't benefit you anymore having a degree. When I left university I couldn't get a job. I feel that like my other friends from uni that there has no become too many people going uni, which doesn't give you the USP over others as so many people have a degree these days.  I worked bloody hard at uni to get a good mark, however so does the tax payer who gets up every morning an goes to work. They shouldn't of have had to pay for my education as I was the one who choose to go to uni. The country is in a financial mess and the country doesn't need politically motivated academics whipping up even more hysteria over every cut, from a government who didn't even get us in the mess! 
Finally, someone with a real life experience backing up the common sense view. Degrees nowadays are completely devalued and not worth studying for. Time to make Uni for the elite only - and I'm not talking about the rich !
[quote][p][bold]Johnboy123[/bold] wrote: As a gradaute who left uni in march many students might find my comments slightly ironic. However I feel the students protesters causing violence are anarchist only interested in causing mayhem and trouble. The problem I have found is that is doesn't benefit you anymore having a degree. When I left university I couldn't get a job. I feel that like my other friends from uni that there has no become too many people going uni, which doesn't give you the USP over others as so many people have a degree these days.  I worked bloody hard at uni to get a good mark, however so does the tax payer who gets up every morning an goes to work. They shouldn't of have had to pay for my education as I was the one who choose to go to uni. The country is in a financial mess and the country doesn't need politically motivated academics whipping up even more hysteria over every cut, from a government who didn't even get us in the mess! [/p][/quote]Finally, someone with a real life experience backing up the common sense view. Degrees nowadays are completely devalued and not worth studying for. Time to make Uni for the elite only - and I'm not talking about the rich ! Fight Back

10:02pm Wed 24 Nov 10

jeremy radvan says...

brunswick63 wrote:
At the bottom of Farm Road this afternoon were two girls, one of which was holding a sign saying "Medea Studies Students Against Cuts" (took a photo if anyone is interested in seeing it). British higher education at it's finest...
Has it not occurred to you that these girls may have been studying Classical Civilizations at BHASVIC or VARNDEAN.
I think what you saw was a joke, but one aimed at people with sufficient education to get it. Look up Medea on Google or WikiP.
[quote][p][bold]brunswick63[/bold] wrote: At the bottom of Farm Road this afternoon were two girls, one of which was holding a sign saying "Medea Studies Students Against Cuts" (took a photo if anyone is interested in seeing it). British higher education at it's finest...[/p][/quote]Has it not occurred to you that these girls may have been studying Classical Civilizations at BHASVIC or VARNDEAN. I think what you saw was a joke, but one aimed at people with sufficient education to get it. Look up Medea on Google or WikiP. jeremy radvan

10:03pm Wed 24 Nov 10

rs says...

kkj wrote:
Colin Houlson wrote:
LtPaperclip wrote:
commentisfree wrote:
LtPaperclip wrote:
commentisfree wrote: Why do you all think it is only about cuts in University education?
You wait until next year when all the new taxes and cuts take effect. You better get in line at the soup kitchens or you will be going hungry . There are no free rides in life...Students should get part time jobs to pay for extra education and not see free goverment cash as there right.
Aw bless, you really don't understand, do you? These cuts are about the Government removing all state support, and not just from students. Students do need to support themselves to an extent - we all have to. But not to the point where only the wealthy can succeed. Smelling that coffee yet?
awww bless , you really think you can intimidate me ? ha ha....any way as i am not entitled to any goverment benifits any way i dont see why i should care tbh, are the wealthy not already in the secceeded club ? No one has told me yet why my tax should be used to pay for a adults education ?
Perhaps you should put some of your precious tax to good use and get 'a adult education'.
I think what LtPaperclip is getting at is that as he has never used anyone's tax money to get an education, why should other people use his to get one? At least that's what I surmise from reading his posts.
I'm assuming he didn't go to a state school then.
[quote][p][bold]kkj[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Colin Houlson[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]LtPaperclip[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]commentisfree[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]LtPaperclip[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]commentisfree[/bold] wrote: Why do you all think it is only about cuts in University education?[/p][/quote]You wait until next year when all the new taxes and cuts take effect. You better get in line at the soup kitchens or you will be going hungry . There are no free rides in life...Students should get part time jobs to pay for extra education and not see free goverment cash as there right.[/p][/quote]Aw bless, you really don't understand, do you? These cuts are about the Government removing all state support, and not just from students. Students do need to support themselves to an extent - we all have to. But not to the point where only the wealthy can succeed. Smelling that coffee yet?[/p][/quote]awww bless , you really think you can intimidate me ? ha ha....any way as i am not entitled to any goverment benifits any way i dont see why i should care tbh, are the wealthy not already in the secceeded club ? No one has told me yet why my tax should be used to pay for a adults education ?[/p][/quote]Perhaps you should put some of your precious tax to good use and get 'a adult education'.[/p][/quote]I think what LtPaperclip is getting at is that as he has never used anyone's tax money to get an education, why should other people use his to get one? At least that's what I surmise from reading his posts.[/p][/quote]I'm assuming he didn't go to a state school then. rs

10:21pm Wed 24 Nov 10

erosa says...

the people saying 'i dont want my taxes spent on education'... well i bet your education was free wasnt it?
the people saying 'i dont want my taxes spent on education'... well i bet your education was free wasnt it? erosa

10:24pm Wed 24 Nov 10

jeremy radvan says...

deve wrote:
Would it make sense for universities to open more along business lines. Students work 5 days a week, 9 to 5, holidays should be about what an average company gives staff - say max 30 days. Currently a University year is about 30 weeks, students work say 3 or 4 days. That is not very useful to anyone. Make it say a 45 week year and 5 days per week. This gives students more ideas about working life, makes them realise university is hard work - like a real job. They shorten their courses, run up less debt, are more ready for work. They wont see University as a shelter from the real world, and employers know the students who get through and succeed are worth employing. Taxpayers get more bang for their bucks as they are not subsidising empty universities and dead time. Maybe this would gee up some of the lectures as well ! Less time to protest as well - like most working people !
It is always tempting to put forward a simple common sense solution in these circumstances. Your suggestion fails to understand a fundamental principle of university study; that a student must spend time in research and independent learning. A good student will easily complete a 40 hour week. The lectures and seminars that they attend are intended to guide. Universities are not concerned with spoon feeding students.
That is not to say that all students work as hard as this, as in every sphere of life there are some lazy herberts, but the idea of an express and intensive degree course is a non-starter.
[quote][p][bold]deve[/bold] wrote: Would it make sense for universities to open more along business lines. Students work 5 days a week, 9 to 5, holidays should be about what an average company gives staff - say max 30 days. Currently a University year is about 30 weeks, students work say 3 or 4 days. That is not very useful to anyone. Make it say a 45 week year and 5 days per week. This gives students more ideas about working life, makes them realise university is hard work - like a real job. They shorten their courses, run up less debt, are more ready for work. They wont see University as a shelter from the real world, and employers know the students who get through and succeed are worth employing. Taxpayers get more bang for their bucks as they are not subsidising empty universities and dead time. Maybe this would gee up some of the lectures as well ! Less time to protest as well - like most working people ![/p][/quote]It is always tempting to put forward a simple common sense solution in these circumstances. Your suggestion fails to understand a fundamental principle of university study; that a student must spend time in research and independent learning. A good student will easily complete a 40 hour week. The lectures and seminars that they attend are intended to guide. Universities are not concerned with spoon feeding students. That is not to say that all students work as hard as this, as in every sphere of life there are some lazy herberts, but the idea of an express and intensive degree course is a non-starter. jeremy radvan

10:24pm Wed 24 Nov 10

pun master says...

Pedroski wrote:
RottingdeanRant wrote:
I would have thought that a simple way to reduce many of the fees is to make the degree course shorter, maybe 2 years or less instead of 3. The students could then be expected to work 5 days a week for 8 hours a day. This I expect would also reduce the problems associated with late night parties.
What a load of toss. I went to uni as a mature student, after working in dead end jobs for a charge card company for 10 years.....and I did a 3 year degree course, and it certainly wasn't a walk in the park. When you add up time for courses, research, report writing...it really is a full time job. Add on to that a part time job, and there's no way it can all be crammed into 2 years and still have decent content. And so what if people want to blow off some steam in pubs and clubs and have parties? It's all part of life - doing a degree, or any kind of job, should take away from people wanting to enjoy what they're doing. And if it wasn't for students, Brighton and Hove would be a miserable hole full of miserable moaning gits.
Well I did a four year course. I say 'did,' but the truth is more that I didn't - just dossed around for four years, spent most of it partying my knackers off, ran off a few photocopies from the library from which to take quotes from, blagged a few essays, didn't bother turning up to a lot of my seminars, and managed to bag myself a 2:1. C'mon guys who are we kidding; university is nowhere near as hard as you make out - the argument for two year courses is spot on...
[quote][p][bold]Pedroski[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]RottingdeanRant[/bold] wrote: I would have thought that a simple way to reduce many of the fees is to make the degree course shorter, maybe 2 years or less instead of 3. The students could then be expected to work 5 days a week for 8 hours a day. This I expect would also reduce the problems associated with late night parties.[/p][/quote]What a load of toss. I went to uni as a mature student, after working in dead end jobs for a charge card company for 10 years.....and I did a 3 year degree course, and it certainly wasn't a walk in the park. When you add up time for courses, research, report writing...it really is a full time job. Add on to that a part time job, and there's no way it can all be crammed into 2 years and still have decent content. And so what if people want to blow off some steam in pubs and clubs and have parties? It's all part of life - doing a degree, or any kind of job, should take away from people wanting to enjoy what they're doing. And if it wasn't for students, Brighton and Hove would be a miserable hole full of miserable moaning gits.[/p][/quote]Well I did a four year course. I say 'did,' but the truth is more that I didn't - just dossed around for four years, spent most of it partying my knackers off, ran off a few photocopies from the library from which to take quotes from, blagged a few essays, didn't bother turning up to a lot of my seminars, and managed to bag myself a 2:1. C'mon guys who are we kidding; university is nowhere near as hard as you make out - the argument for two year courses is spot on... pun master

10:25pm Wed 24 Nov 10

jeremy radvan says...

pun master wrote:
Pedroski wrote:
RottingdeanRant wrote:
I would have thought that a simple way to reduce many of the fees is to make the degree course shorter, maybe 2 years or less instead of 3. The students could then be expected to work 5 days a week for 8 hours a day. This I expect would also reduce the problems associated with late night parties.
What a load of toss. I went to uni as a mature student, after working in dead end jobs for a charge card company for 10 years.....and I did a 3 year degree course, and it certainly wasn't a walk in the park. When you add up time for courses, research, report writing...it really is a full time job. Add on to that a part time job, and there's no way it can all be crammed into 2 years and still have decent content. And so what if people want to blow off some steam in pubs and clubs and have parties? It's all part of life - doing a degree, or any kind of job, should take away from people wanting to enjoy what they're doing. And if it wasn't for students, Brighton and Hove would be a miserable hole full of miserable moaning gits.
Well I did a four year course. I say 'did,' but the truth is more that I didn't - just dossed around for four years, spent most of it partying my knackers off, ran off a few photocopies from the library from which to take quotes from, blagged a few essays, didn't bother turning up to a lot of my seminars, and managed to bag myself a 2:1. C'mon guys who are we kidding; university is nowhere near as hard as you make out - the argument for two year courses is spot on...
These public school boys get everywhere
[quote][p][bold]pun master[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Pedroski[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]RottingdeanRant[/bold] wrote: I would have thought that a simple way to reduce many of the fees is to make the degree course shorter, maybe 2 years or less instead of 3. The students could then be expected to work 5 days a week for 8 hours a day. This I expect would also reduce the problems associated with late night parties.[/p][/quote]What a load of toss. I went to uni as a mature student, after working in dead end jobs for a charge card company for 10 years.....and I did a 3 year degree course, and it certainly wasn't a walk in the park. When you add up time for courses, research, report writing...it really is a full time job. Add on to that a part time job, and there's no way it can all be crammed into 2 years and still have decent content. And so what if people want to blow off some steam in pubs and clubs and have parties? It's all part of life - doing a degree, or any kind of job, should take away from people wanting to enjoy what they're doing. And if it wasn't for students, Brighton and Hove would be a miserable hole full of miserable moaning gits.[/p][/quote]Well I did a four year course. I say 'did,' but the truth is more that I didn't - just dossed around for four years, spent most of it partying my knackers off, ran off a few photocopies from the library from which to take quotes from, blagged a few essays, didn't bother turning up to a lot of my seminars, and managed to bag myself a 2:1. C'mon guys who are we kidding; university is nowhere near as hard as you make out - the argument for two year courses is spot on...[/p][/quote]These public school boys get everywhere jeremy radvan

10:29pm Wed 24 Nov 10

pun master says...

jeremy radvan wrote:
pun master wrote:
Pedroski wrote:
RottingdeanRant wrote:
I would have thought that a simple way to reduce many of the fees is to make the degree course shorter, maybe 2 years or less instead of 3. The students could then be expected to work 5 days a week for 8 hours a day. This I expect would also reduce the problems associated with late night parties.
What a load of toss. I went to uni as a mature student, after working in dead end jobs for a charge card company for 10 years.....and I did a 3 year degree course, and it certainly wasn't a walk in the park. When you add up time for courses, research, report writing...it really is a full time job. Add on to that a part time job, and there's no way it can all be crammed into 2 years and still have decent content. And so what if people want to blow off some steam in pubs and clubs and have parties? It's all part of life - doing a degree, or any kind of job, should take away from people wanting to enjoy what they're doing. And if it wasn't for students, Brighton and Hove would be a miserable hole full of miserable moaning gits.
Well I did a four year course. I say 'did,' but the truth is more that I didn't - just dossed around for four years, spent most of it partying my knackers off, ran off a few photocopies from the library from which to take quotes from, blagged a few essays, didn't bother turning up to a lot of my seminars, and managed to bag myself a 2:1. C'mon guys who are we kidding; university is nowhere near as hard as you make out - the argument for two year courses is spot on...
These public school boys get everywhere
You could not be further from the truth. Raised on a council estate by a secretary for a mum, warehouseman for a dad, attended ordinary state comprehensive in West London; just born lucky enough to be academic I guess...
[quote][p][bold]jeremy radvan[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]pun master[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Pedroski[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]RottingdeanRant[/bold] wrote: I would have thought that a simple way to reduce many of the fees is to make the degree course shorter, maybe 2 years or less instead of 3. The students could then be expected to work 5 days a week for 8 hours a day. This I expect would also reduce the problems associated with late night parties.[/p][/quote]What a load of toss. I went to uni as a mature student, after working in dead end jobs for a charge card company for 10 years.....and I did a 3 year degree course, and it certainly wasn't a walk in the park. When you add up time for courses, research, report writing...it really is a full time job. Add on to that a part time job, and there's no way it can all be crammed into 2 years and still have decent content. And so what if people want to blow off some steam in pubs and clubs and have parties? It's all part of life - doing a degree, or any kind of job, should take away from people wanting to enjoy what they're doing. And if it wasn't for students, Brighton and Hove would be a miserable hole full of miserable moaning gits.[/p][/quote]Well I did a four year course. I say 'did,' but the truth is more that I didn't - just dossed around for four years, spent most of it partying my knackers off, ran off a few photocopies from the library from which to take quotes from, blagged a few essays, didn't bother turning up to a lot of my seminars, and managed to bag myself a 2:1. C'mon guys who are we kidding; university is nowhere near as hard as you make out - the argument for two year courses is spot on...[/p][/quote]These public school boys get everywhere[/p][/quote]You could not be further from the truth. Raised on a council estate by a secretary for a mum, warehouseman for a dad, attended ordinary state comprehensive in West London; just born lucky enough to be academic I guess... pun master

10:47pm Wed 24 Nov 10

jeremy radvan says...

pun master wrote:
jeremy radvan wrote:
pun master wrote:
Pedroski wrote:
RottingdeanRant wrote:
I would have thought that a simple way to reduce many of the fees is to make the degree course shorter, maybe 2 years or less instead of 3. The students could then be expected to work 5 days a week for 8 hours a day. This I expect would also reduce the problems associated with late night parties.
What a load of toss. I went to uni as a mature student, after working in dead end jobs for a charge card company for 10 years.....and I did a 3 year degree course, and it certainly wasn't a walk in the park. When you add up time for courses, research, report writing...it really is a full time job. Add on to that a part time job, and there's no way it can all be crammed into 2 years and still have decent content. And so what if people want to blow off some steam in pubs and clubs and have parties? It's all part of life - doing a degree, or any kind of job, should take away from people wanting to enjoy what they're doing. And if it wasn't for students, Brighton and Hove would be a miserable hole full of miserable moaning gits.
Well I did a four year course. I say 'did,' but the truth is more that I didn't - just dossed around for four years, spent most of it partying my knackers off, ran off a few photocopies from the library from which to take quotes from, blagged a few essays, didn't bother turning up to a lot of my seminars, and managed to bag myself a 2:1. C'mon guys who are we kidding; university is nowhere near as hard as you make out - the argument for two year courses is spot on...
These public school boys get everywhere
You could not be further from the truth. Raised on a council estate by a secretary for a mum, warehouseman for a dad, attended ordinary state comprehensive in West London; just born lucky enough to be academic I guess...
Well done, did it take you a long time to cultivate that air of effortless dismissiveness?
Being academically gifted is a long way from being educated.
So the fact that you were able to "blag" your way through university and cheat through plagiarism means that nobody else should be given the space and time to aspire to something better than a fraudulently obtained 2:1?
[quote][p][bold]pun master[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]jeremy radvan[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]pun master[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Pedroski[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]RottingdeanRant[/bold] wrote: I would have thought that a simple way to reduce many of the fees is to make the degree course shorter, maybe 2 years or less instead of 3. The students could then be expected to work 5 days a week for 8 hours a day. This I expect would also reduce the problems associated with late night parties.[/p][/quote]What a load of toss. I went to uni as a mature student, after working in dead end jobs for a charge card company for 10 years.....and I did a 3 year degree course, and it certainly wasn't a walk in the park. When you add up time for courses, research, report writing...it really is a full time job. Add on to that a part time job, and there's no way it can all be crammed into 2 years and still have decent content. And so what if people want to blow off some steam in pubs and clubs and have parties? It's all part of life - doing a degree, or any kind of job, should take away from people wanting to enjoy what they're doing. And if it wasn't for students, Brighton and Hove would be a miserable hole full of miserable moaning gits.[/p][/quote]Well I did a four year course. I say 'did,' but the truth is more that I didn't - just dossed around for four years, spent most of it partying my knackers off, ran off a few photocopies from the library from which to take quotes from, blagged a few essays, didn't bother turning up to a lot of my seminars, and managed to bag myself a 2:1. C'mon guys who are we kidding; university is nowhere near as hard as you make out - the argument for two year courses is spot on...[/p][/quote]These public school boys get everywhere[/p][/quote]You could not be further from the truth. Raised on a council estate by a secretary for a mum, warehouseman for a dad, attended ordinary state comprehensive in West London; just born lucky enough to be academic I guess...[/p][/quote]Well done, did it take you a long time to cultivate that air of effortless dismissiveness? Being academically gifted is a long way from being educated. So the fact that you were able to "blag" your way through university and cheat through plagiarism means that nobody else should be given the space and time to aspire to something better than a fraudulently obtained 2:1? jeremy radvan

10:59pm Wed 24 Nov 10

Robtjames84 says...

Although the school and college kids gave the police the run around today, i say good on 'em. I'm currently a mature student paying £3225 a year and don't see why they should pay 3 times that when the likes of David 'slug in a man's body' Cameron got his for free.

To anybody who says that students don't understand hard work - I'm 26 and have worked full time since i was 17. Nobody's taxes go towards paying anything for me, i've paid enough into the system and the way i see it, my learning grant comes from a slight portion of the tax i've paid in over the years (average £3500 a year)

And just for the record, unless people are of a royal bloodline, they don't just become middle class, people fall into that catergory because somewhere down the line, someone has worked hard in their family to make a bit of bread for their children/descendants
.
Although the school and college kids gave the police the run around today, i say good on 'em. I'm currently a mature student paying £3225 a year and don't see why they should pay 3 times that when the likes of David 'slug in a man's body' Cameron got his for free. To anybody who says that students don't understand hard work - I'm 26 and have worked full time since i was 17. Nobody's taxes go towards paying anything for me, i've paid enough into the system and the way i see it, my learning grant comes from a slight portion of the tax i've paid in over the years (average £3500 a year) And just for the record, unless people are of a royal bloodline, they don't just become middle class, people fall into that catergory because somewhere down the line, someone has worked hard in their family to make a bit of bread for their children/descendants . Robtjames84

11:31pm Wed 24 Nov 10

Mr Lahey says...

Tippy Toes wrote:
true-brightonian wrote: @Fight Back, The City of Brighton and Hove, well that is great for them. I am sure you are right, but not everyone can be a plumber or a builder. How many women do you know who are "plumbers, builders, sparkies, roofers and carpenters"? Not many, I expect.
I have a senior role at an independent school and I don't have a degree. Mr Lahey, I would say that I do have a decent job. When I left school very few people went on to University, but now it seems to be the norm. People just expect to go and for the rest of us to pay for them!
Yeah well, the student loan portfolio is shortly about to become profitable for the government, so quit your whining.

Luckily I worked 30 hours a week and lived with my parents throughout studying, so I owe you people sweet nothing.
[quote][p][bold]Tippy Toes[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]true-brightonian[/bold] wrote: @Fight Back, The City of Brighton and Hove, well that is great for them. I am sure you are right, but not everyone can be a plumber or a builder. How many women do you know who are "plumbers, builders, sparkies, roofers and carpenters"? Not many, I expect.[/p][/quote]I have a senior role at an independent school and I don't have a degree. Mr Lahey, I would say that I do have a decent job. When I left school very few people went on to University, but now it seems to be the norm. People just expect to go and for the rest of us to pay for them![/p][/quote]Yeah well, the student loan portfolio is shortly about to become profitable for the government, so quit your whining. Luckily I worked 30 hours a week and lived with my parents throughout studying, so I owe you people sweet nothing. Mr Lahey

12:33am Thu 25 Nov 10

LtPaperclip says...

heidic1234 wrote:
LtPaperclip wrote:
commentisfree wrote: Why do you all think it is only about cuts in University education?
You wait until next year when all the new taxes and cuts take effect. You better get in line at the soup kitchens or you will be going hungry . There are no free rides in life...Students should get part time jobs to pay for extra education and not see free goverment cash as there right.
Most students DO have part time jobs and some, like myself, have to get full time jobs. Do you seriously think that we get thousands of pounds thrown at us? I don't believe I have a "right" to my degree but I have worked VERY hard through school and college to get here. Why should I and all the hard working students getting good a-level grades because they want to be educated and learn have to miss out on this? The protests aren't just about the rise in fee's which is extortionate, they are about the government attempting to destroy all opportunities for the poor. If I was 18 and was told I was going to have to pay £30,000 for university by a group of men who never paid student top up fee's I wouldn't go. But then again, that's the point isn't it?
Good i am glad you are paying your way, now if you please explain why you think my tax money should be given to you ?
[quote][p][bold]heidic1234[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]LtPaperclip[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]commentisfree[/bold] wrote: Why do you all think it is only about cuts in University education?[/p][/quote]You wait until next year when all the new taxes and cuts take effect. You better get in line at the soup kitchens or you will be going hungry . There are no free rides in life...Students should get part time jobs to pay for extra education and not see free goverment cash as there right.[/p][/quote]Most students DO have part time jobs and some, like myself, have to get full time jobs. Do you seriously think that we get thousands of pounds thrown at us? I don't believe I have a "right" to my degree but I have worked VERY hard through school and college to get here. Why should I and all the hard working students getting good a-level grades because they want to be educated and learn have to miss out on this? The protests aren't just about the rise in fee's which is extortionate, they are about the government attempting to destroy all opportunities for the poor. If I was 18 and was told I was going to have to pay £30,000 for university by a group of men who never paid student top up fee's I wouldn't go. But then again, that's the point isn't it?[/p][/quote]Good i am glad you are paying your way, now if you please explain why you think my tax money should be given to you ? LtPaperclip

12:36am Thu 25 Nov 10

LtPaperclip says...

Skippah wrote:
LtPaperclip wrote:
Skippah wrote: The whole reason we can no longer fund and subsidise all these students is because of the idea that was pushed on us that everybody had the right to go to university. Had we just stuck with putting the best of the best, regardless of their background, into university we could afford to fund them all fully. . The majority of the people protesting are only at university because we ignored our ability to fund them via tax money, now they are being told to pay (only once they are earning £21k, mind you) for their educations, they don't like it. . Still, they aren't happy and have the right to protest, and I support that fully. Whilst not agreeing with them, they are doing what they think is right, so good on them!
I dont even agree with them having the right to protest. What right do the schools have to allow there pupils to leave school and go out on a march ??????? which parents gave permission for that ? The secondary schools that let children out of school should be prosecuted.
It's their future and if they want to protest. Let them. At least they're sticking up for what they believe in. . So what if they miss a day of school?! And I doubt any school "let" them go. They just went, It was never hard when I was at school to just go out, I doubt that has changed in a matter of 6 years.
why did poundland churchill square and western road come under attack then ? what have they to do with student fees ?
[quote][p][bold]Skippah[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]LtPaperclip[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Skippah[/bold] wrote: The whole reason we can no longer fund and subsidise all these students is because of the idea that was pushed on us that everybody had the right to go to university. Had we just stuck with putting the best of the best, regardless of their background, into university we could afford to fund them all fully. . The majority of the people protesting are only at university because we ignored our ability to fund them via tax money, now they are being told to pay (only once they are earning £21k, mind you) for their educations, they don't like it. . Still, they aren't happy and have the right to protest, and I support that fully. Whilst not agreeing with them, they are doing what they think is right, so good on them![/p][/quote]I dont even agree with them having the right to protest. What right do the schools have to allow there pupils to leave school and go out on a march ??????? which parents gave permission for that ? The secondary schools that let children out of school should be prosecuted.[/p][/quote]It's their future and if they want to protest. Let them. At least they're sticking up for what they believe in. . So what if they miss a day of school?! And I doubt any school "let" them go. They just went, It was never hard when I was at school to just go out, I doubt that has changed in a matter of 6 years.[/p][/quote]why did poundland churchill square and western road come under attack then ? what have they to do with student fees ? LtPaperclip

12:41am Thu 25 Nov 10

LtPaperclip says...

Colin Houlson wrote:
Lt Paperclip, one of the benefits of education is knowing the difference between 'there' and 'their'.
I really dont care.
[quote][p][bold]Colin Houlson[/bold] wrote: Lt Paperclip, one of the benefits of education is knowing the difference between 'there' and 'their'.[/p][/quote]I really dont care. LtPaperclip

12:44am Thu 25 Nov 10

LtPaperclip says...

Joeinbrighton wrote:
kkj wrote:
Colin Houlson wrote:
LtPaperclip wrote:
commentisfree wrote:
LtPaperclip wrote:
commentisfree wrote: Why do you all think it is only about cuts in University education?
You wait until next year when all the new taxes and cuts take effect. You better get in line at the soup kitchens or you will be going hungry . There are no free rides in life...Students should get part time jobs to pay for extra education and not see free goverment cash as there right.
Aw bless, you really don't understand, do you? These cuts are about the Government removing all state support, and not just from students. Students do need to support themselves to an extent - we all have to. But not to the point where only the wealthy can succeed. Smelling that coffee yet?
awww bless , you really think you can intimidate me ? ha ha....any way as i am not entitled to any goverment benifits any way i dont see why i should care tbh, are the wealthy not already in the secceeded club ? No one has told me yet why my tax should be used to pay for a adults education ?
Perhaps you should put some of your precious tax to good use and get 'a adult education'.
I think what LtPaperclip is getting at is that as he has never used anyone's tax money to get an education, why should other people use his to get one? At least that's what I surmise from reading his posts.
Unless our learned friend, the decorated trombone, never went to school, or unless he was schooled on foreign shores, he will at some point have had his education funded by the British tax payer just as the rest of us have.
as a child of course it was state funded but not after 15 ...i am talking about adults...18 + who choose to be in uni of their own free will expecting us tax payers to stump up for their education ....not me...pay your own way students dont be parasites
[quote][p][bold]Joeinbrighton[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]kkj[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Colin Houlson[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]LtPaperclip[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]commentisfree[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]LtPaperclip[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]commentisfree[/bold] wrote: Why do you all think it is only about cuts in University education?[/p][/quote]You wait until next year when all the new taxes and cuts take effect. You better get in line at the soup kitchens or you will be going hungry . There are no free rides in life...Students should get part time jobs to pay for extra education and not see free goverment cash as there right.[/p][/quote]Aw bless, you really don't understand, do you? These cuts are about the Government removing all state support, and not just from students. Students do need to support themselves to an extent - we all have to. But not to the point where only the wealthy can succeed. Smelling that coffee yet?[/p][/quote]awww bless , you really think you can intimidate me ? ha ha....any way as i am not entitled to any goverment benifits any way i dont see why i should care tbh, are the wealthy not already in the secceeded club ? No one has told me yet why my tax should be used to pay for a adults education ?[/p][/quote]Perhaps you should put some of your precious tax to good use and get 'a adult education'.[/p][/quote]I think what LtPaperclip is getting at is that as he has never used anyone's tax money to get an education, why should other people use his to get one? At least that's what I surmise from reading his posts.[/p][/quote]Unless our learned friend, the decorated trombone, never went to school, or unless he was schooled on foreign shores, he will at some point have had his education funded by the British tax payer just as the rest of us have.[/p][/quote]as a child of course it was state funded but not after 15 ...i am talking about adults...18 + who choose to be in uni of their own free will expecting us tax payers to stump up for their education ....not me...pay your own way students dont be parasites LtPaperclip

12:56am Thu 25 Nov 10

thejessa says...

I find it strange that some of you are so angry about students protesting fees, it is not just about degrees, this is also about education maintenance allowance for poor kids in rubbish areas to act as a lifeline of support and incentive to complete their basic education, it is about every child having the right to aim for higher education even if they choose not to take it, that should be their choice not their financial background that chooses for them. and for those of you who dont support them, perhaps you should think about who will look after you as you become part of the greying population? whose taxes will cover your pension, your hospital beds. who will be your doctors, nurses and policemen, for that matter who will be your politicians? they are our future and personally i think my future is worth investing in a **** sight more than it is being offered!
I find it strange that some of you are so angry about students protesting fees, it is not just about degrees, this is also about education maintenance allowance for poor kids in rubbish areas to act as a lifeline of support and incentive to complete their basic education, it is about every child having the right to aim for higher education even if they choose not to take it, that should be their choice not their financial background that chooses for them. and for those of you who dont support them, perhaps you should think about who will look after you as you become part of the greying population? whose taxes will cover your pension, your hospital beds. who will be your doctors, nurses and policemen, for that matter who will be your politicians? they are our future and personally i think my future is worth investing in a **** sight more than it is being offered! thejessa

1:00am Thu 25 Nov 10

LtPaperclip says...

a degree is not a human right...it is a earned privalige...anything worth that hard work is worth paying for yourself............
...smashing uo poundland is what to do with that !
a degree is not a human right...it is a earned privalige...anything worth that hard work is worth paying for yourself............ ...smashing uo poundland is what to do with that ! LtPaperclip

1:03am Thu 25 Nov 10

LtPaperclip says...

Cheryl Tweedy made it off the council estate without a degree....why cant you ?
Cheryl Tweedy made it off the council estate without a degree....why cant you ? LtPaperclip

1:14am Thu 25 Nov 10

Skippah says...

LtPaperclip wrote:
Skippah wrote:
LtPaperclip wrote:
Skippah wrote: The whole reason we can no longer fund and subsidise all these students is because of the idea that was pushed on us that everybody had the right to go to university. Had we just stuck with putting the best of the best, regardless of their background, into university we could afford to fund them all fully. . The majority of the people protesting are only at university because we ignored our ability to fund them via tax money, now they are being told to pay (only once they are earning £21k, mind you) for their educations, they don't like it. . Still, they aren't happy and have the right to protest, and I support that fully. Whilst not agreeing with them, they are doing what they think is right, so good on them!
I dont even agree with them having the right to protest. What right do the schools have to allow there pupils to leave school and go out on a march ??????? which parents gave permission for that ? The secondary schools that let children out of school should be prosecuted.
It's their future and if they want to protest. Let them. At least they're sticking up for what they believe in. . So what if they miss a day of school?! And I doubt any school "let" them go. They just went, It was never hard when I was at school to just go out, I doubt that has changed in a matter of 6 years.
why did poundland churchill square and western road come under attack then ? what have they to do with student fees ?
There will be idiots running around at any protest. Doesn't mean people shouldn't bother. Don't let a minority ruin it for a lot of people who make their voices made legitimately.
[quote][p][bold]LtPaperclip[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Skippah[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]LtPaperclip[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Skippah[/bold] wrote: The whole reason we can no longer fund and subsidise all these students is because of the idea that was pushed on us that everybody had the right to go to university. Had we just stuck with putting the best of the best, regardless of their background, into university we could afford to fund them all fully. . The majority of the people protesting are only at university because we ignored our ability to fund them via tax money, now they are being told to pay (only once they are earning £21k, mind you) for their educations, they don't like it. . Still, they aren't happy and have the right to protest, and I support that fully. Whilst not agreeing with them, they are doing what they think is right, so good on them![/p][/quote]I dont even agree with them having the right to protest. What right do the schools have to allow there pupils to leave school and go out on a march ??????? which parents gave permission for that ? The secondary schools that let children out of school should be prosecuted.[/p][/quote]It's their future and if they want to protest. Let them. At least they're sticking up for what they believe in. . So what if they miss a day of school?! And I doubt any school "let" them go. They just went, It was never hard when I was at school to just go out, I doubt that has changed in a matter of 6 years.[/p][/quote]why did poundland churchill square and western road come under attack then ? what have they to do with student fees ?[/p][/quote]There will be idiots running around at any protest. Doesn't mean people shouldn't bother. Don't let a minority ruin it for a lot of people who make their voices made legitimately. Skippah

1:23am Thu 25 Nov 10

thejessa says...

also for those of you who dont care about students and dont want your taxes to support them, how do you think most people would choose where their taxes went? perhaps they would choose not to support nuclear reactors, or the elderly or twining towns with other countries or entertainment budgets or public toilets. these cuts have not been thought through, the long term impact (i.e. after this term of government) is being completely ignored. The entire system of support for the general populace is being undermined by a group of people who cheered in public view when the cuts were announced even as 400 thousand job cuts were announced, who scrapped a bill that examined the fairness of any decision over the rich and the poor. That this government is taking away our constitutional rights to an nhs and selling our health to fastfood corporations and leaving our children for the next two generations, nothing to aim for and nowhere to go, wants to sit back and clap on the back?
they are ignoring the IFS and other advisory bodies who have stated that this is the worst mistake they can make for the country. they want to reintroduce slavery in the disguise of engaging people into work if they have not found jobs within a year. and yes it is slavery to force someone to work for no money or else be without home and food for themselves or their families. please stop thnking that any of this is about one particular little group or type of person. the only peole these cuts will have a negligible effect on is those who have a personal fortune to rely on and no family or friends who are outside of the super rich and even then when the homeless appear in their thousands and bodies start to appear on streets, with no one to make it all go away, they wil probably just ride past the beggars and the desperate telling them they never had it so good. I pity you when you next need society because it has a long memory
also for those of you who dont care about students and dont want your taxes to support them, how do you think most people would choose where their taxes went? perhaps they would choose not to support nuclear reactors, or the elderly or twining towns with other countries or entertainment budgets or public toilets. these cuts have not been thought through, the long term impact (i.e. after this term of government) is being completely ignored. The entire system of support for the general populace is being undermined by a group of people who cheered in public view when the cuts were announced even as 400 thousand job cuts were announced, who scrapped a bill that examined the fairness of any decision over the rich and the poor. That this government is taking away our constitutional rights to an nhs and selling our health to fastfood corporations and leaving our children for the next two generations, nothing to aim for and nowhere to go, wants to sit back and clap on the back? they are ignoring the IFS and other advisory bodies who have stated that this is the worst mistake they can make for the country. they want to reintroduce slavery in the disguise of engaging people into work if they have not found jobs within a year. and yes it is slavery to force someone to work for no money or else be without home and food for themselves or their families. please stop thnking that any of this is about one particular little group or type of person. the only peole these cuts will have a negligible effect on is those who have a personal fortune to rely on and no family or friends who are outside of the super rich and even then when the homeless appear in their thousands and bodies start to appear on streets, with no one to make it all go away, they wil probably just ride past the beggars and the desperate telling them they never had it so good. I pity you when you next need society because it has a long memory thejessa

1:40am Thu 25 Nov 10

thejessa says...

@LTpaperclip, so do you pay alot of taxes then? i mean if someone who shagged a footballer to get famous and is managing to stick out as a singer is your idea of how to get off the council estate you must have a really good job!
what about giving people a chance to actually succeed at doing something more than go in reveal and hello? you dont have to have a degree to do that but you do at least need ambition to be more than the next candidate on x factor. my gosh but your arguements are weak. even with no fees university is only for the ones who study, and they dont have to become docotrs, lawyers and politicians some of them become teachers or detectives or charity workers, architects engineers, building inspectors. some of them choose to go to university as adults because after thirty years of being a brickie their bodies cant take anymore so they get qualified to be site managers or inspectors. it isnt just about the ones you dont like. its about the ones you need as well. students dont stay students forever and without them, well lets just say surgery would be a little hit an miss for starters. get some information before you get irate. think about the whole picture not just that you dissaprove of one bit of it. please.
@LTpaperclip, so do you pay alot of taxes then? i mean if someone who shagged a footballer to get famous and is managing to stick out as a singer is your idea of how to get off the council estate you must have a really good job! what about giving people a chance to actually succeed at doing something more than go in reveal and hello? you dont have to have a degree to do that but you do at least need ambition to be more than the next candidate on x factor. my gosh but your arguements are weak. even with no fees university is only for the ones who study, and they dont have to become docotrs, lawyers and politicians some of them become teachers or detectives or charity workers, architects engineers, building inspectors. some of them choose to go to university as adults because after thirty years of being a brickie their bodies cant take anymore so they get qualified to be site managers or inspectors. it isnt just about the ones you dont like. its about the ones you need as well. students dont stay students forever and without them, well lets just say surgery would be a little hit an miss for starters. get some information before you get irate. think about the whole picture not just that you dissaprove of one bit of it. please. thejessa

7:26am Thu 25 Nov 10

Pedroski says...

pun master wrote:
Pedroski wrote:
RottingdeanRant wrote:
I would have thought that a simple way to reduce many of the fees is to make the degree course shorter, maybe 2 years or less instead of 3. The students could then be expected to work 5 days a week for 8 hours a day. This I expect would also reduce the problems associated with late night parties.
What a load of toss. I went to uni as a mature student, after working in dead end jobs for a charge card company for 10 years.....and I did a 3 year degree course, and it certainly wasn't a walk in the park. When you add up time for courses, research, report writing...it really is a full time job. Add on to that a part time job, and there's no way it can all be crammed into 2 years and still have decent content. And so what if people want to blow off some steam in pubs and clubs and have parties? It's all part of life - doing a degree, or any kind of job, should take away from people wanting to enjoy what they're doing. And if it wasn't for students, Brighton and Hove would be a miserable hole full of miserable moaning gits.
Well I did a four year course. I say 'did,' but the truth is more that I didn't - just dossed around for four years, spent most of it partying my knackers off, ran off a few photocopies from the library from which to take quotes from, blagged a few essays, didn't bother turning up to a lot of my seminars, and managed to bag myself a 2:1. C'mon guys who are we kidding; university is nowhere near as hard as you make out - the argument for two year courses is spot on...
You're proud of being a lazy fecker? If you'd worked harder then you could have got a decent grade.

If government is concerned that too many people are going to uni then the chaff needs to be filtered out.....but not through putting a financial barrier there, but instead by through making things academically more challenging. Truth is, the government wants as many as possible to go to university as it keeps them off the dole queue for a few years. And it wants to screw £9000/year out of them for the privilege. If only the top 6% go to university then that leads a whole heap of people with no jobs, in a job market that has more potential workers than it does available jobs. So how does that work? And now, the government has also announced the complete withdrawal of free college education for adults....
[quote][p][bold]pun master[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Pedroski[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]RottingdeanRant[/bold] wrote: I would have thought that a simple way to reduce many of the fees is to make the degree course shorter, maybe 2 years or less instead of 3. The students could then be expected to work 5 days a week for 8 hours a day. This I expect would also reduce the problems associated with late night parties.[/p][/quote]What a load of toss. I went to uni as a mature student, after working in dead end jobs for a charge card company for 10 years.....and I did a 3 year degree course, and it certainly wasn't a walk in the park. When you add up time for courses, research, report writing...it really is a full time job. Add on to that a part time job, and there's no way it can all be crammed into 2 years and still have decent content. And so what if people want to blow off some steam in pubs and clubs and have parties? It's all part of life - doing a degree, or any kind of job, should take away from people wanting to enjoy what they're doing. And if it wasn't for students, Brighton and Hove would be a miserable hole full of miserable moaning gits.[/p][/quote]Well I did a four year course. I say 'did,' but the truth is more that I didn't - just dossed around for four years, spent most of it partying my knackers off, ran off a few photocopies from the library from which to take quotes from, blagged a few essays, didn't bother turning up to a lot of my seminars, and managed to bag myself a 2:1. C'mon guys who are we kidding; university is nowhere near as hard as you make out - the argument for two year courses is spot on...[/p][/quote]You're proud of being a lazy fecker? If you'd worked harder then you could have got a decent grade. If government is concerned that too many people are going to uni then the chaff needs to be filtered out.....but not through putting a financial barrier there, but instead by through making things academically more challenging. Truth is, the government wants as many as possible to go to university as it keeps them off the dole queue for a few years. And it wants to screw £9000/year out of them for the privilege. If only the top 6% go to university then that leads a whole heap of people with no jobs, in a job market that has more potential workers than it does available jobs. So how does that work? And now, the government has also announced the complete withdrawal of free college education for adults.... Pedroski

7:43am Thu 25 Nov 10

pun master says...

jeremy radvan wrote:
pun master wrote:
jeremy radvan wrote:
pun master wrote:
Pedroski wrote:
RottingdeanRant wrote: I would have thought that a simple way to reduce many of the fees is to make the degree course shorter, maybe 2 years or less instead of 3. The students could then be expected to work 5 days a week for 8 hours a day. This I expect would also reduce the problems associated with late night parties.
What a load of toss. I went to uni as a mature student, after working in dead end jobs for a charge card company for 10 years.....and I did a 3 year degree course, and it certainly wasn't a walk in the park. When you add up time for courses, research, report writing...it really is a full time job. Add on to that a part time job, and there's no way it can all be crammed into 2 years and still have decent content. And so what if people want to blow off some steam in pubs and clubs and have parties? It's all part of life - doing a degree, or any kind of job, should take away from people wanting to enjoy what they're doing. And if it wasn't for students, Brighton and Hove would be a miserable hole full of miserable moaning gits.
Well I did a four year course. I say 'did,' but the truth is more that I didn't - just dossed around for four years, spent most of it partying my knackers off, ran off a few photocopies from the library from which to take quotes from, blagged a few essays, didn't bother turning up to a lot of my seminars, and managed to bag myself a 2:1. C'mon guys who are we kidding; university is nowhere near as hard as you make out - the argument for two year courses is spot on...
These public school boys get everywhere
You could not be further from the truth. Raised on a council estate by a secretary for a mum, warehouseman for a dad, attended ordinary state comprehensive in West London; just born lucky enough to be academic I guess...
Well done, did it take you a long time to cultivate that air of effortless dismissiveness? Being academically gifted is a long way from being educated. So the fact that you were able to "blag" your way through university and cheat through plagiarism means that nobody else should be given the space and time to aspire to something better than a fraudulently obtained 2:1?
You cheeky so and so - I didn't relate anything to cheating - I certainly didn't do that - and lazy I certainly am not Pedroski - the point I am making is that students are always banging on about how hard they work at Uni, as they try to persuade the public that they are worth the money in these tough times, and the truth is that through my own experiences and those of my friends and colleagues from Uni is that it is nowhere near that hard for the majority of students - admittedly some have to study hard but very few don't - and I'm talking about friends of mine who did law, medicine, engineering, and education. I am doing nothing other than revealing the truth. And of course don't forget, I am old enough to have got into Uni on the back of real A Levels, not these easy ones you get 'given' today. I have a 4 yo and 2yo son, and am starting to save for their education already - it is only right that I should expect to pay for their higher education, not ponce it from the taxpayer...

Pedroski I certainly didn't get my degree fraudulently, just with little effort. And if you think for one minute I consider myself educated because I state that I am academically gifted then this simply confirms that you don't know or understand me. The best education I got was working as a labourer on construction sites and as a postman. There is an old fact that talsk about the research that shows that 95% or so of graduates will tell someone new they meet that they are graduates within 15 minutes of meeting them - its about time student took their head out of their backsides, stopped pretending that they do something so amazing, and respected other members of society instead of bleating on about how great and deserving they are, how much they are entitled to an education for free and how hard they work, because it simply isn't true...
[quote][p][bold]jeremy radvan[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]pun master[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]jeremy radvan[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]pun master[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Pedroski[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]RottingdeanRant[/bold] wrote: I would have thought that a simple way to reduce many of the fees is to make the degree course shorter, maybe 2 years or less instead of 3. The students could then be expected to work 5 days a week for 8 hours a day. This I expect would also reduce the problems associated with late night parties.[/p][/quote]What a load of toss. I went to uni as a mature student, after working in dead end jobs for a charge card company for 10 years.....and I did a 3 year degree course, and it certainly wasn't a walk in the park. When you add up time for courses, research, report writing...it really is a full time job. Add on to that a part time job, and there's no way it can all be crammed into 2 years and still have decent content. And so what if people want to blow off some steam in pubs and clubs and have parties? It's all part of life - doing a degree, or any kind of job, should take away from people wanting to enjoy what they're doing. And if it wasn't for students, Brighton and Hove would be a miserable hole full of miserable moaning gits.[/p][/quote]Well I did a four year course. I say 'did,' but the truth is more that I didn't - just dossed around for four years, spent most of it partying my knackers off, ran off a few photocopies from the library from which to take quotes from, blagged a few essays, didn't bother turning up to a lot of my seminars, and managed to bag myself a 2:1. C'mon guys who are we kidding; university is nowhere near as hard as you make out - the argument for two year courses is spot on...[/p][/quote]These public school boys get everywhere[/p][/quote]You could not be further from the truth. Raised on a council estate by a secretary for a mum, warehouseman for a dad, attended ordinary state comprehensive in West London; just born lucky enough to be academic I guess...[/p][/quote]Well done, did it take you a long time to cultivate that air of effortless dismissiveness? Being academically gifted is a long way from being educated. So the fact that you were able to "blag" your way through university and cheat through plagiarism means that nobody else should be given the space and time to aspire to something better than a fraudulently obtained 2:1?[/p][/quote]You cheeky so and so - I didn't relate anything to cheating - I certainly didn't do that - and lazy I certainly am not Pedroski - the point I am making is that students are always banging on about how hard they work at Uni, as they try to persuade the public that they are worth the money in these tough times, and the truth is that through my own experiences and those of my friends and colleagues from Uni is that it is nowhere near that hard for the majority of students - admittedly some have to study hard but very few don't - and I'm talking about friends of mine who did law, medicine, engineering, and education. I am doing nothing other than revealing the truth. And of course don't forget, I am old enough to have got into Uni on the back of real A Levels, not these easy ones you get 'given' today. I have a 4 yo and 2yo son, and am starting to save for their education already - it is only right that I should expect to pay for their higher education, not ponce it from the taxpayer... Pedroski I certainly didn't get my degree fraudulently, just with little effort. And if you think for one minute I consider myself educated because I state that I am academically gifted then this simply confirms that you don't know or understand me. The best education I got was working as a labourer on construction sites and as a postman. There is an old fact that talsk about the research that shows that 95% or so of graduates will tell someone new they meet that they are graduates within 15 minutes of meeting them - its about time student took their head out of their backsides, stopped pretending that they do something so amazing, and respected other members of society instead of bleating on about how great and deserving they are, how much they are entitled to an education for free and how hard they work, because it simply isn't true... pun master

8:01am Thu 25 Nov 10

iceman00 says...

We're currently reading the musings of the vocal Tory minority. The normal progressive people out there understand why students are so angry and why these fee changes are so wrong. Education should ALWAYS be free...even in a free market society.

University courses should be much more challenging and the silly degrees abolished but to suggest that 9000 per year is fair is crazy. there will be no more social mobility.

I'm not a student but i wish the government would tax the people who deserve it...the fred goodwins of this world.
We're currently reading the musings of the vocal Tory minority. The normal progressive people out there understand why students are so angry and why these fee changes are so wrong. Education should ALWAYS be free...even in a free market society. University courses should be much more challenging and the silly degrees abolished but to suggest that 9000 per year is fair is crazy. there will be no more social mobility. I'm not a student but i wish the government would tax the people who deserve it...the fred goodwins of this world. iceman00

8:02am Thu 25 Nov 10

Pedroski says...

PunMaster, you misquoted me. I never said you got your degree fraudulently - that was someone else who said that, and I don't think that for one minute. All I said was that you could have got better if you'd worked more - kind of making the most of the opportunity you'd been given.

I got a 1st class BSc in 3 years, followed by just being awarded a D.Phil. I'm working as a landscaper, and doing building work as well, so I know what you mean about best education being real life hard graft. HOWEVER, like you, I am academically gifted, and I'm hacked off that I can't get work at the moment where I'm using my qualifications. There are just too many degree qualified people floating about - they say something like 60 to 70 apps for every job requiring a degree. The excess of degree qualified people means that these jobs can pay poorly as well. What I'm getting at is that the government assumption that a degree leads to higher income is misguided, and that there are too many people coming out of uni with degrees, but the way to sort this out isn't by introducing higher financial barriers, but by making things more challenging. Then those of us who are academically more gifted, whether rich or poor (like me!), actually have the opportunity to become qualified and work in a job that uses our abilities.
PunMaster, you misquoted me. I never said you got your degree fraudulently - that was someone else who said that, and I don't think that for one minute. All I said was that you could have got better if you'd worked more - kind of making the most of the opportunity you'd been given. I got a 1st class BSc in 3 years, followed by just being awarded a D.Phil. I'm working as a landscaper, and doing building work as well, so I know what you mean about best education being real life hard graft. HOWEVER, like you, I am academically gifted, and I'm hacked off that I can't get work at the moment where I'm using my qualifications. There are just too many degree qualified people floating about - they say something like 60 to 70 apps for every job requiring a degree. The excess of degree qualified people means that these jobs can pay poorly as well. What I'm getting at is that the government assumption that a degree leads to higher income is misguided, and that there are too many people coming out of uni with degrees, but the way to sort this out isn't by introducing higher financial barriers, but by making things more challenging. Then those of us who are academically more gifted, whether rich or poor (like me!), actually have the opportunity to become qualified and work in a job that uses our abilities. Pedroski

8:59am Thu 25 Nov 10

LtPaperclip says...

Pedroski wrote:
LtPaperclip wrote:
commentisfree wrote: Why do you all think it is only about cuts in University education?
You wait until next year when all the new taxes and cuts take effect. You better get in line at the soup kitchens or you will be going hungry . There are no free rides in life...Students should get part time jobs to pay for extra education and not see free goverment cash as there right.
Come on then clever little man....where are all the part time jobs for the hundreds of thousands of school leavers? And what's this crap about "free government cash"? I got grants for university fees, and loans to support my family (which I'm now paying back) and expect to be effectively repaying my grants through my taxes. What the government are effectively wanting to do is to still tax people, and then raise more money through people having loans to pay their fees. Surely, if we have to take out loans for university education, then we should all see a reduction in our income tax as we're no longer paying for education through that. But we won't. It's a money making scam that disadvantages those on lower incomes and has no effect on those on higher incomes. The usual Tory stuff.
lol......little man !!!! you presume i am thin skinned and insulted ! your wrong.

students need to face up to the stark reality of life now and stop expecting hand outs
[quote][p][bold]Pedroski[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]LtPaperclip[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]commentisfree[/bold] wrote: Why do you all think it is only about cuts in University education?[/p][/quote]You wait until next year when all the new taxes and cuts take effect. You better get in line at the soup kitchens or you will be going hungry . There are no free rides in life...Students should get part time jobs to pay for extra education and not see free goverment cash as there right.[/p][/quote]Come on then clever little man....where are all the part time jobs for the hundreds of thousands of school leavers? And what's this crap about "free government cash"? I got grants for university fees, and loans to support my family (which I'm now paying back) and expect to be effectively repaying my grants through my taxes. What the government are effectively wanting to do is to still tax people, and then raise more money through people having loans to pay their fees. Surely, if we have to take out loans for university education, then we should all see a reduction in our income tax as we're no longer paying for education through that. But we won't. It's a money making scam that disadvantages those on lower incomes and has no effect on those on higher incomes. The usual Tory stuff.[/p][/quote]lol......little man !!!! you presume i am thin skinned and insulted ! your wrong. students need to face up to the stark reality of life now and stop expecting hand outs LtPaperclip

9:01am Thu 25 Nov 10

LtPaperclip says...

heidic1234 wrote:
Fight Back wrote:
heidic1234 wrote: Do you know what scares me here. The amount of people who make sweeping statements on students, I have read "they only go in one day a week", "they don't work", "its easy", "they all just drink loads and don't get up till midday". Do you really think that the millions of students in this country are all doing this? I go to university because I want to excel in history of art, I want a career in history of art-you try getting a career in this without a degree. Both my working class parents have worked their entire lives and paid taxes, I work part time and pay taxes. I will pay back my loan. I deserve this just as much as some Etonian with a very rich mummy and daddy.
If you need a degree for a career in that chosen field fine but just expect to pay more for your degree - something that reflects the true cost of the course rather than being heavily dependant upon the taxpayer. I'm not sure I would want my taxes paying for a degree in the History of Art given it doesn't really advance our economy and is a very very select field.
I am a taxpayer too. It is a LOAN I have received, not a handout. I am not very good at things that may "benefit the economy". Also, I think you will find that art does benefit the economy. Do you know how many tourists visit the British Museum? Do you know how much money British Artists bring to this country, at the base of culture there is always money to be made. Not that I care for money, I just want to be happy and love my job. Maybe that's the difference between you and I.
meusems are free ...art is for girls and fairys...join the army do a proper job
[quote][p][bold]heidic1234[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Fight Back[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]heidic1234[/bold] wrote: Do you know what scares me here. The amount of people who make sweeping statements on students, I have read "they only go in one day a week", "they don't work", "its easy", "they all just drink loads and don't get up till midday". Do you really think that the millions of students in this country are all doing this? I go to university because I want to excel in history of art, I want a career in history of art-you try getting a career in this without a degree. Both my working class parents have worked their entire lives and paid taxes, I work part time and pay taxes. I will pay back my loan. I deserve this just as much as some Etonian with a very rich mummy and daddy.[/p][/quote]If you need a degree for a career in that chosen field fine but just expect to pay more for your degree - something that reflects the true cost of the course rather than being heavily dependant upon the taxpayer. I'm not sure I would want my taxes paying for a degree in the History of Art given it doesn't really advance our economy and is a very very select field.[/p][/quote]I am a taxpayer too. It is a LOAN I have received, not a handout. I am not very good at things that may "benefit the economy". Also, I think you will find that art does benefit the economy. Do you know how many tourists visit the British Museum? Do you know how much money British Artists bring to this country, at the base of culture there is always money to be made. Not that I care for money, I just want to be happy and love my job. Maybe that's the difference between you and I.[/p][/quote]meusems are free ...art is for girls and fairys...join the army do a proper job LtPaperclip

9:03am Thu 25 Nov 10

LtPaperclip says...

Tracey wrote:
Loads of silly teenage kids nicked fruit from my stall, not sure how this will help their cause, they were violent and completely out of control, i seriously cannot have any respect for these little s**ts!
hi Tracey.....and so the scum stole from you costing you money !!! and you know what they did with them ? they pelted the malls windows....the stocks and the birch need to be bought back
[quote][p][bold]Tracey[/bold] wrote: Loads of silly teenage kids nicked fruit from my stall, not sure how this will help their cause, they were violent and completely out of control, i seriously cannot have any respect for these little s**ts![/p][/quote]hi Tracey.....and so the scum stole from you costing you money !!! and you know what they did with them ? they pelted the malls windows....the stocks and the birch need to be bought back LtPaperclip

9:12am Thu 25 Nov 10

LtPaperclip says...

thejessa wrote:
@LTpaperclip, so do you pay alot of taxes then? i mean if someone who shagged a footballer to get famous and is managing to stick out as a singer is your idea of how to get off the council estate you must have a really good job! what about giving people a chance to actually succeed at doing something more than go in reveal and hello? you dont have to have a degree to do that but you do at least need ambition to be more than the next candidate on x factor. my gosh but your arguements are weak. even with no fees university is only for the ones who study, and they dont have to become docotrs, lawyers and politicians some of them become teachers or detectives or charity workers, architects engineers, building inspectors. some of them choose to go to university as adults because after thirty years of being a brickie their bodies cant take anymore so they get qualified to be site managers or inspectors. it isnt just about the ones you dont like. its about the ones you need as well. students dont stay students forever and without them, well lets just say surgery would be a little hit an miss for starters. get some information before you get irate. think about the whole picture not just that you dissaprove of one bit of it. please.
I am a electrician. I paid for my own collage with my money i earned, not one single penny came from the goverment, i am in my early 40s and i work full time and i have two part time jobs. I do pay alot in tax £700 ish a month and it gets my goat to think the money i work hard to earn will end up in Hectors House being poured down some unwashed Communist inclinced student parasites neck in the form of cheap booze.
[quote][p][bold]thejessa[/bold] wrote: @LTpaperclip, so do you pay alot of taxes then? i mean if someone who shagged a footballer to get famous and is managing to stick out as a singer is your idea of how to get off the council estate you must have a really good job! what about giving people a chance to actually succeed at doing something more than go in reveal and hello? you dont have to have a degree to do that but you do at least need ambition to be more than the next candidate on x factor. my gosh but your arguements are weak. even with no fees university is only for the ones who study, and they dont have to become docotrs, lawyers and politicians some of them become teachers or detectives or charity workers, architects engineers, building inspectors. some of them choose to go to university as adults because after thirty years of being a brickie their bodies cant take anymore so they get qualified to be site managers or inspectors. it isnt just about the ones you dont like. its about the ones you need as well. students dont stay students forever and without them, well lets just say surgery would be a little hit an miss for starters. get some information before you get irate. think about the whole picture not just that you dissaprove of one bit of it. please.[/p][/quote]I am a electrician. I paid for my own collage with my money i earned, not one single penny came from the goverment, i am in my early 40s and i work full time and i have two part time jobs. I do pay alot in tax £700 ish a month and it gets my goat to think the money i work hard to earn will end up in Hectors House being poured down some unwashed Communist inclinced student parasites neck in the form of cheap booze. LtPaperclip

9:12am Thu 25 Nov 10

thejessa says...

iceman is the only one who is making sense, pedroski, ltpaperclip and others are simply ranting on with little or no interest in actually finding out the implications of these cuts. seems stupidity is a national disease, and if we all keep fightin with each other there will be nobody left to fight the cuts. I have two children one aged 15 one aged 2, and i am not prepared to tell them that they are worthless because some rich beauracrat or some gripey fool says they dont deserve a future. we all want the same things, for our children to be able to to read and write, for our homes to stay our own, to be able to go to a doctor or hospital when we are ill or injured, for a police force that enforces the laws, for work so we can feed our families and support for when things go wrong. this government wants to take all of that away from us. all of that protection for the individual and help for the masses to be peeled away to support the banks and money. there is no humanity in these cuts, only greed. no sense of fairness or justice, only feeding the corporations. as these cuts go through, those of you who think it is fair and just have had many years of the freedoms of the state and of the government caring for its people, why should our children be punished and left to fend for themselves against a government that would rather cripple the country than care for its poor. I am ashamed that Britain no longer cares for its people, but perhaps if its people can actually look out for one another then we can stop the government from destroying our lives.
iceman is the only one who is making sense, pedroski, ltpaperclip and others are simply ranting on with little or no interest in actually finding out the implications of these cuts. seems stupidity is a national disease, and if we all keep fightin with each other there will be nobody left to fight the cuts. I have two children one aged 15 one aged 2, and i am not prepared to tell them that they are worthless because some rich beauracrat or some gripey fool says they dont deserve a future. we all want the same things, for our children to be able to to read and write, for our homes to stay our own, to be able to go to a doctor or hospital when we are ill or injured, for a police force that enforces the laws, for work so we can feed our families and support for when things go wrong. this government wants to take all of that away from us. all of that protection for the individual and help for the masses to be peeled away to support the banks and money. there is no humanity in these cuts, only greed. no sense of fairness or justice, only feeding the corporations. as these cuts go through, those of you who think it is fair and just have had many years of the freedoms of the state and of the government caring for its people, why should our children be punished and left to fend for themselves against a government that would rather cripple the country than care for its poor. I am ashamed that Britain no longer cares for its people, but perhaps if its people can actually look out for one another then we can stop the government from destroying our lives. thejessa

9:38am Thu 25 Nov 10

David523 says...

Britain. Strangled by Cameron and Clegg 2010.
Britain. Strangled by Cameron and Clegg 2010. David523

11:47am Thu 25 Nov 10

Dexy says...

"Five schoolchildren and one adult have been arrested after yesterday's student protests"

Note - 'Children'. Why werent these Children at school? - Where is the parental control? - A high % of those actually arrested were 16 or under. These individuals are CHILDREN. They need guidance and good roll models - They have clearly been let down by poor parenting

Another report said Shopkeepers were applauding and supporting the protest? - What planet was that poster on? - The March damaged trade and I'm sure the owners of Vodapone and Poundland thought differently.

Lots of people on this blog seem to delight in making childish insults of each others- perhaps some of you are the parents of these children?!. How about being a role model???
"Five schoolchildren and one adult have been arrested after yesterday's student protests" Note - 'Children'. Why werent these Children at school? - Where is the parental control? - A high % of those actually arrested were 16 or under. These individuals are CHILDREN. They need guidance and good roll models - They have clearly been let down by poor parenting Another report said Shopkeepers were applauding and supporting the protest? - What planet was that poster on? - The March damaged trade and I'm sure the owners of Vodapone and Poundland thought differently. Lots of people on this blog seem to delight in making childish insults of each others- perhaps some of you are the parents of these children?!. How about being a role model??? Dexy

12:29pm Thu 25 Nov 10

thejessa says...

@dexy and LTpaperclip, why do you think these cuts are just about students, I was there yesterday and witnessed shopkeepers applauding, police agreeing and parents backing up theri kids, this is not about freehandouts, this is about an electorate that has been lied to and is now having their childrens future denied. if you think that there is no grounds for this and that they are all spoilt brats expecting handouts surely you have misunderstood the principles of the situation. why not do a little research before you cast off generations of support for families through education or would you rather go back to the victorian era? where do you think your money comes from and the jobs you get mr electrician. i know a great many people with a trade and they all want the best opportunities for their kids too.
@dexy and LTpaperclip, why do you think these cuts are just about students, I was there yesterday and witnessed shopkeepers applauding, police agreeing and parents backing up theri kids, this is not about freehandouts, this is about an electorate that has been lied to and is now having their childrens future denied. if you think that there is no grounds for this and that they are all spoilt brats expecting handouts surely you have misunderstood the principles of the situation. why not do a little research before you cast off generations of support for families through education or would you rather go back to the victorian era? where do you think your money comes from and the jobs you get mr electrician. i know a great many people with a trade and they all want the best opportunities for their kids too. thejessa

12:43pm Thu 25 Nov 10

Tippy Toes says...

I want the best for my children, but to be honest, I expect to have to pay for it! But maybe that's because I live in the real world. The country is in a terrible financial state. They have to make cuts. People need to wake up.
I want the best for my children, but to be honest, I expect to have to pay for it! But maybe that's because I live in the real world. The country is in a terrible financial state. They have to make cuts. People need to wake up. Tippy Toes

1:44pm Thu 25 Nov 10

Bert Fox says...

I'm proud that our children are actually able to think for themselves and express their anger. Yes children need role models but that shouldn't include the passive and compliant who just want business to carry on as usual - well at least so long as they're OK.
I'm proud that our children are actually able to think for themselves and express their anger. Yes children need role models but that shouldn't include the passive and compliant who just want business to carry on as usual - well at least so long as they're OK. Bert Fox

2:17pm Thu 25 Nov 10

Tippy Toes says...

Bert Fox wrote:
I'm proud that our children are actually able to think for themselves and express their anger. Yes children need role models but that shouldn't include the passive and compliant who just want business to carry on as usual - well at least so long as they're OK.
You are proud that they smashed up and urinated on police vehicles in London? That they smashed up shops in Brighton? I don't think that's anything to be very proud of. I believe that people have the right to peaceful protest, but this was anything but.
[quote][p][bold]Bert Fox[/bold] wrote: I'm proud that our children are actually able to think for themselves and express their anger. Yes children need role models but that shouldn't include the passive and compliant who just want business to carry on as usual - well at least so long as they're OK.[/p][/quote]You are proud that they smashed up and urinated on police vehicles in London? That they smashed up shops in Brighton? I don't think that's anything to be very proud of. I believe that people have the right to peaceful protest, but this was anything but. Tippy Toes

5:17pm Thu 25 Nov 10

Pedroski says...

thejessa wrote:
iceman is the only one who is making sense, pedroski, ltpaperclip and others are simply ranting on with little or no interest in actually finding out the implications of these cuts. seems stupidity is a national disease, and if we all keep fightin with each other there will be nobody left to fight the cuts. I have two children one aged 15 one aged 2, and i am not prepared to tell them that they are worthless because some rich beauracrat or some gripey fool says they dont deserve a future. we all want the same things, for our children to be able to to read and write, for our homes to stay our own, to be able to go to a doctor or hospital when we are ill or injured, for a police force that enforces the laws, for work so we can feed our families and support for when things go wrong. this government wants to take all of that away from us. all of that protection for the individual and help for the masses to be peeled away to support the banks and money. there is no humanity in these cuts, only greed. no sense of fairness or justice, only feeding the corporations. as these cuts go through, those of you who think it is fair and just have had many years of the freedoms of the state and of the government caring for its people, why should our children be punished and left to fend for themselves against a government that would rather cripple the country than care for its poor. I am ashamed that Britain no longer cares for its people, but perhaps if its people can actually look out for one another then we can stop the government from destroying our lives.
How dare you....how very dare you..... accuse me of ranting on and Iceman talking sense. Iceman has said what I said - that education should be free and that university courses should be more challenging! Think you must have read the other stuff...that I didn't write...that was misquoted in someone else's post! I forgive you....sure it was just an mistake :)
[quote][p][bold]thejessa[/bold] wrote: iceman is the only one who is making sense, pedroski, ltpaperclip and others are simply ranting on with little or no interest in actually finding out the implications of these cuts. seems stupidity is a national disease, and if we all keep fightin with each other there will be nobody left to fight the cuts. I have two children one aged 15 one aged 2, and i am not prepared to tell them that they are worthless because some rich beauracrat or some gripey fool says they dont deserve a future. we all want the same things, for our children to be able to to read and write, for our homes to stay our own, to be able to go to a doctor or hospital when we are ill or injured, for a police force that enforces the laws, for work so we can feed our families and support for when things go wrong. this government wants to take all of that away from us. all of that protection for the individual and help for the masses to be peeled away to support the banks and money. there is no humanity in these cuts, only greed. no sense of fairness or justice, only feeding the corporations. as these cuts go through, those of you who think it is fair and just have had many years of the freedoms of the state and of the government caring for its people, why should our children be punished and left to fend for themselves against a government that would rather cripple the country than care for its poor. I am ashamed that Britain no longer cares for its people, but perhaps if its people can actually look out for one another then we can stop the government from destroying our lives.[/p][/quote]How dare you....how very dare you..... accuse me of ranting on and Iceman talking sense. Iceman has said what I said - that education should be free and that university courses should be more challenging! Think you must have read the other stuff...that I didn't write...that was misquoted in someone else's post! I forgive you....sure it was just an mistake :) Pedroski

5:44pm Thu 25 Nov 10

Pedroski says...

Tippy Toes wrote:
Bert Fox wrote:
I'm proud that our children are actually able to think for themselves and express their anger. Yes children need role models but that shouldn't include the passive and compliant who just want business to carry on as usual - well at least so long as they're OK.
You are proud that they smashed up and urinated on police vehicles in London? That they smashed up shops in Brighton? I don't think that's anything to be very proud of. I believe that people have the right to peaceful protest, but this was anything but.
Problem is......what should be peaceful protests get hijacked. Makes me wonder....the "anarchistic" groups that hijack protests (like they did yesterday).....are they formed by the government for the purpose of detracting from what the protests are actually about and for turning people against the students?
[quote][p][bold]Tippy Toes[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Bert Fox[/bold] wrote: I'm proud that our children are actually able to think for themselves and express their anger. Yes children need role models but that shouldn't include the passive and compliant who just want business to carry on as usual - well at least so long as they're OK.[/p][/quote]You are proud that they smashed up and urinated on police vehicles in London? That they smashed up shops in Brighton? I don't think that's anything to be very proud of. I believe that people have the right to peaceful protest, but this was anything but.[/p][/quote]Problem is......what should be peaceful protests get hijacked. Makes me wonder....the "anarchistic" groups that hijack protests (like they did yesterday).....are they formed by the government for the purpose of detracting from what the protests are actually about and for turning people against the students? Pedroski

5:51pm Thu 25 Nov 10

Pedroski says...

Tippy Toes wrote:
I want the best for my children, but to be honest, I expect to have to pay for it! But maybe that's because I live in the real world. The country is in a terrible financial state. They have to make cuts. People need to wake up.
You just don't get it.....WE DO PAY FOR IT. You know those things called "TAXES"....they are used to pay for the health service, social care, education, pensions and so on. We pay fortunes into the government to pay for what we, and our children, and our parents are entitled. The government want us to pay for education on top of what we already pay...
[quote][p][bold]Tippy Toes[/bold] wrote: I want the best for my children, but to be honest, I expect to have to pay for it! But maybe that's because I live in the real world. The country is in a terrible financial state. They have to make cuts. People need to wake up.[/p][/quote]You just don't get it.....WE DO PAY FOR IT. You know those things called "TAXES"....they are used to pay for the health service, social care, education, pensions and so on. We pay fortunes into the government to pay for what we, and our children, and our parents are entitled. The government want us to pay for education on top of what we already pay... Pedroski

7:06pm Thu 25 Nov 10

Bert Fox says...

Pedroski wrote:
Tippy Toes wrote:
Bert Fox wrote:
I'm proud that our children are actually able to think for themselves and express their anger. Yes children need role models but that shouldn't include the passive and compliant who just want business to carry on as usual - well at least so long as they're OK.
You are proud that they smashed up and urinated on police vehicles in London? That they smashed up shops in Brighton? I don't think that's anything to be very proud of. I believe that people have the right to peaceful protest, but this was anything but.
Problem is......what should be peaceful protests get hijacked. Makes me wonder....the "anarchistic" groups that hijack protests (like they did yesterday).....are they formed by the government for the purpose of detracting from what the protests are actually about and for turning people against the students?
When protesters get angry after being shoved around by the police all day why do people then say that the protests have been hijacked by anarchist groups?

An anarchist group would not go and raid Poundland when there is a McDonalds next door.
[quote][p][bold]Pedroski[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Tippy Toes[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Bert Fox[/bold] wrote: I'm proud that our children are actually able to think for themselves and express their anger. Yes children need role models but that shouldn't include the passive and compliant who just want business to carry on as usual - well at least so long as they're OK.[/p][/quote]You are proud that they smashed up and urinated on police vehicles in London? That they smashed up shops in Brighton? I don't think that's anything to be very proud of. I believe that people have the right to peaceful protest, but this was anything but.[/p][/quote]Problem is......what should be peaceful protests get hijacked. Makes me wonder....the "anarchistic" groups that hijack protests (like they did yesterday).....are they formed by the government for the purpose of detracting from what the protests are actually about and for turning people against the students?[/p][/quote]When protesters get angry after being shoved around by the police all day why do people then say that the protests have been hijacked by anarchist groups? An anarchist group would not go and raid Poundland when there is a McDonalds next door. Bert Fox

7:14pm Thu 25 Nov 10

LtPaperclip says...

thejessa wrote:
@dexy and LTpaperclip, why do you think these cuts are just about students, I was there yesterday and witnessed shopkeepers applauding, police agreeing and parents backing up theri kids, this is not about freehandouts, this is about an electorate that has been lied to and is now having their childrens future denied. if you think that there is no grounds for this and that they are all spoilt brats expecting handouts surely you have misunderstood the principles of the situation. why not do a little research before you cast off generations of support for families through education or would you rather go back to the victorian era? where do you think your money comes from and the jobs you get mr electrician. i know a great many people with a trade and they all want the best opportunities for their kids too.
was the shopkeeper you saw clapping the one on churchill square market that had all her apples stolen by these louts ? and as for mr electrician i dont work for some tatty firm changing light bulbs....my skills are very unique, the scum that attacked our city should be flogged on the level as a warning to the other scumbags
[quote][p][bold]thejessa[/bold] wrote: @dexy and LTpaperclip, why do you think these cuts are just about students, I was there yesterday and witnessed shopkeepers applauding, police agreeing and parents backing up theri kids, this is not about freehandouts, this is about an electorate that has been lied to and is now having their childrens future denied. if you think that there is no grounds for this and that they are all spoilt brats expecting handouts surely you have misunderstood the principles of the situation. why not do a little research before you cast off generations of support for families through education or would you rather go back to the victorian era? where do you think your money comes from and the jobs you get mr electrician. i know a great many people with a trade and they all want the best opportunities for their kids too.[/p][/quote]was the shopkeeper you saw clapping the one on churchill square market that had all her apples stolen by these louts ? and as for mr electrician i dont work for some tatty firm changing light bulbs....my skills are very unique, the scum that attacked our city should be flogged on the level as a warning to the other scumbags LtPaperclip

7:36pm Thu 25 Nov 10

Pedroski says...

Bert Fox wrote:
Pedroski wrote:
Tippy Toes wrote:
Bert Fox wrote:
I'm proud that our children are actually able to think for themselves and express their anger. Yes children need role models but that shouldn't include the passive and compliant who just want business to carry on as usual - well at least so long as they're OK.
You are proud that they smashed up and urinated on police vehicles in London? That they smashed up shops in Brighton? I don't think that's anything to be very proud of. I believe that people have the right to peaceful protest, but this was anything but.
Problem is......what should be peaceful protests get hijacked. Makes me wonder....the "anarchistic" groups that hijack protests (like they did yesterday).....are they formed by the government for the purpose of detracting from what the protests are actually about and for turning people against the students?
When protesters get angry after being shoved around by the police all day why do people then say that the protests have been hijacked by anarchist groups?

An anarchist group would not go and raid Poundland when there is a McDonalds next door.
Good point! Obviously not an anarchist group.....but instead a bunch of Tory students put in place by the government to make the protesters look daft.
[quote][p][bold]Bert Fox[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Pedroski[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Tippy Toes[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Bert Fox[/bold] wrote: I'm proud that our children are actually able to think for themselves and express their anger. Yes children need role models but that shouldn't include the passive and compliant who just want business to carry on as usual - well at least so long as they're OK.[/p][/quote]You are proud that they smashed up and urinated on police vehicles in London? That they smashed up shops in Brighton? I don't think that's anything to be very proud of. I believe that people have the right to peaceful protest, but this was anything but.[/p][/quote]Problem is......what should be peaceful protests get hijacked. Makes me wonder....the "anarchistic" groups that hijack protests (like they did yesterday).....are they formed by the government for the purpose of detracting from what the protests are actually about and for turning people against the students?[/p][/quote]When protesters get angry after being shoved around by the police all day why do people then say that the protests have been hijacked by anarchist groups? An anarchist group would not go and raid Poundland when there is a McDonalds next door.[/p][/quote]Good point! Obviously not an anarchist group.....but instead a bunch of Tory students put in place by the government to make the protesters look daft. Pedroski

9:54am Fri 26 Nov 10

Tippy Toes says...

Pedroski wrote:
Tippy Toes wrote:
I want the best for my children, but to be honest, I expect to have to pay for it! But maybe that's because I live in the real world. The country is in a terrible financial state. They have to make cuts. People need to wake up.
You just don't get it.....WE DO PAY FOR IT. You know those things called "TAXES"....they are used to pay for the health service, social care, education, pensions and so on. We pay fortunes into the government to pay for what we, and our children, and our parents are entitled. The government want us to pay for education on top of what we already pay...
Of course I get it. But I am realistic too! I know we pay tax, I pay a lot every month! But I expect that is my child wants to go to further education then I will have to pay! Further education is a choice!!!
[quote][p][bold]Pedroski[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Tippy Toes[/bold] wrote: I want the best for my children, but to be honest, I expect to have to pay for it! But maybe that's because I live in the real world. The country is in a terrible financial state. They have to make cuts. People need to wake up.[/p][/quote]You just don't get it.....WE DO PAY FOR IT. You know those things called "TAXES"....they are used to pay for the health service, social care, education, pensions and so on. We pay fortunes into the government to pay for what we, and our children, and our parents are entitled. The government want us to pay for education on top of what we already pay...[/p][/quote]Of course I get it. But I am realistic too! I know we pay tax, I pay a lot every month! But I expect that is my child wants to go to further education then I will have to pay! Further education is a choice!!! Tippy Toes

1:04pm Fri 26 Nov 10

thejessa says...

i have spent 10 years saVING £10,000 to pay my sons university fees, we are very poor we were expecting to pay that much and saved for it. now that it is looking at tripling, it is has made us feel worthless. we too pay taxes through work and everything we by and do. yet they are taking the opportunity away for our children to go further than we have, and as usual making the word success only available to the rich. I say well done to all the kids who protested. if our society valued the people who do real work instead of just shuffling numbers about in the stock market then the poor would be the ones who were respected as they are the ones who know how to do the things that are needed for survival. would be amazed to know that any of these government members even know how to clean a loo. they would be lost without us, but we would not be lost without them. give our kids the chance to be respected for wanting to learn and to earn, not punish them because they are just the clever poor.
i have spent 10 years saVING £10,000 to pay my sons university fees, we are very poor we were expecting to pay that much and saved for it. now that it is looking at tripling, it is has made us feel worthless. we too pay taxes through work and everything we by and do. yet they are taking the opportunity away for our children to go further than we have, and as usual making the word success only available to the rich. I say well done to all the kids who protested. if our society valued the people who do real work instead of just shuffling numbers about in the stock market then the poor would be the ones who were respected as they are the ones who know how to do the things that are needed for survival. would be amazed to know that any of these government members even know how to clean a loo. they would be lost without us, but we would not be lost without them. give our kids the chance to be respected for wanting to learn and to earn, not punish them because they are just the clever poor. thejessa

1:39pm Fri 26 Nov 10

thejessa says...

@LTpaperclip, you aren't by chance a BNP supporter are you? just you have referred to people who are into art as Fairys or girls you want to bring back the stocks and various other methods of barbaric punishments. am very pleased for you being a specialist in your chosen field but obviously it does not involve much interaction with other human beings. If you had children or a little bit more understanding of the national situation you might stop being so small minded and provincial. you might also not see taxes being used for education as a personal vendetta on you, after all I dont agree with the war in afghanistan, I know someof my taxes go towards that and i also know it is not the soldiers fault they have been sent to fight a war that people in Britain didnt want. I know that some of my taxes goes towards helping the disabled and the elderly and social care for deprived people, i also know that some of it goes on big government dinners and flights away. I really dont like the idea that multimillionaire mr cameron can hire a personal photographer to take pictures of him in the act of destroying Britains economy and at the same point take away my childrens future. no, they dont have to go to university but having spent their whole lives telling them to work hard and they will do well, i now should say, sorry kids people like LTpaperclip think that you are grubbing little oiks who deserve nothing, but happily back the rich men in power who spit on your efforts. tell you what, why dont you start visiting state schools and telling the kids they are all worthless in your eyes, however hard they work. in fact try telling your clients for your specialised electrician work that all students are spoilt drunken and lazy and deserve nothing. perhaps they will respond a little differently to you.

and for those of you who think university places should be cut by half, i bet you don't include yourself in that half! the job market is impossible for most people to get a job degree or otherwise, we are in a major depression but you still have a better chance of getting employment not just in Britain but worldwide. all the people who are losing their jobs because of badly planned government cuts will also be fighting for employment with you.
the only thing that is personal about these cuts is that they are not designed to improve life for the people of Britain, they are designed to keep the moneymen of Britain friendly with each other, whatever the human cost may be!
@LTpaperclip, you aren't by chance a BNP supporter are you? just you have referred to people who are into art as Fairys or girls you want to bring back the stocks and various other methods of barbaric punishments. am very pleased for you being a specialist in your chosen field but obviously it does not involve much interaction with other human beings. If you had children or a little bit more understanding of the national situation you might stop being so small minded and provincial. you might also not see taxes being used for education as a personal vendetta on you, after all I dont agree with the war in afghanistan, I know someof my taxes go towards that and i also know it is not the soldiers fault they have been sent to fight a war that people in Britain didnt want. I know that some of my taxes goes towards helping the disabled and the elderly and social care for deprived people, i also know that some of it goes on big government dinners and flights away. I really dont like the idea that multimillionaire mr cameron can hire a personal photographer to take pictures of him in the act of destroying Britains economy and at the same point take away my childrens future. no, they dont have to go to university but having spent their whole lives telling them to work hard and they will do well, i now should say, sorry kids people like LTpaperclip think that you are grubbing little oiks who deserve nothing, but happily back the rich men in power who spit on your efforts. tell you what, why dont you start visiting state schools and telling the kids they are all worthless in your eyes, however hard they work. in fact try telling your clients for your specialised electrician work that all students are spoilt drunken and lazy and deserve nothing. perhaps they will respond a little differently to you. and for those of you who think university places should be cut by half, i bet you don't include yourself in that half! the job market is impossible for most people to get a job degree or otherwise, we are in a major depression but you still have a better chance of getting employment not just in Britain but worldwide. all the people who are losing their jobs because of badly planned government cuts will also be fighting for employment with you. the only thing that is personal about these cuts is that they are not designed to improve life for the people of Britain, they are designed to keep the moneymen of Britain friendly with each other, whatever the human cost may be! thejessa

4:07pm Fri 26 Nov 10

Jonny Knows says...

thejessa wrote:
@LTpaperclip, you aren't by chance a BNP supporter are you? just you have referred to people who are into art as Fairys or girls you want to bring back the stocks and various other methods of barbaric punishments. am very pleased for you being a specialist in your chosen field but obviously it does not involve much interaction with other human beings. If you had children or a little bit more understanding of the national situation you might stop being so small minded and provincial. you might also not see taxes being used for education as a personal vendetta on you, after all I dont agree with the war in afghanistan, I know someof my taxes go towards that and i also know it is not the soldiers fault they have been sent to fight a war that people in Britain didnt want. I know that some of my taxes goes towards helping the disabled and the elderly and social care for deprived people, i also know that some of it goes on big government dinners and flights away. I really dont like the idea that multimillionaire mr cameron can hire a personal photographer to take pictures of him in the act of destroying Britains economy and at the same point take away my childrens future. no, they dont have to go to university but having spent their whole lives telling them to work hard and they will do well, i now should say, sorry kids people like LTpaperclip think that you are grubbing little oiks who deserve nothing, but happily back the rich men in power who spit on your efforts. tell you what, why dont you start visiting state schools and telling the kids they are all worthless in your eyes, however hard they work. in fact try telling your clients for your specialised electrician work that all students are spoilt drunken and lazy and deserve nothing. perhaps they will respond a little differently to you. and for those of you who think university places should be cut by half, i bet you don't include yourself in that half! the job market is impossible for most people to get a job degree or otherwise, we are in a major depression but you still have a better chance of getting employment not just in Britain but worldwide. all the people who are losing their jobs because of badly planned government cuts will also be fighting for employment with you. the only thing that is personal about these cuts is that they are not designed to improve life for the people of Britain, they are designed to keep the moneymen of Britain friendly with each other, whatever the human cost may be!
Well said!
[quote][p][bold]thejessa[/bold] wrote: @LTpaperclip, you aren't by chance a BNP supporter are you? just you have referred to people who are into art as Fairys or girls you want to bring back the stocks and various other methods of barbaric punishments. am very pleased for you being a specialist in your chosen field but obviously it does not involve much interaction with other human beings. If you had children or a little bit more understanding of the national situation you might stop being so small minded and provincial. you might also not see taxes being used for education as a personal vendetta on you, after all I dont agree with the war in afghanistan, I know someof my taxes go towards that and i also know it is not the soldiers fault they have been sent to fight a war that people in Britain didnt want. I know that some of my taxes goes towards helping the disabled and the elderly and social care for deprived people, i also know that some of it goes on big government dinners and flights away. I really dont like the idea that multimillionaire mr cameron can hire a personal photographer to take pictures of him in the act of destroying Britains economy and at the same point take away my childrens future. no, they dont have to go to university but having spent their whole lives telling them to work hard and they will do well, i now should say, sorry kids people like LTpaperclip think that you are grubbing little oiks who deserve nothing, but happily back the rich men in power who spit on your efforts. tell you what, why dont you start visiting state schools and telling the kids they are all worthless in your eyes, however hard they work. in fact try telling your clients for your specialised electrician work that all students are spoilt drunken and lazy and deserve nothing. perhaps they will respond a little differently to you. and for those of you who think university places should be cut by half, i bet you don't include yourself in that half! the job market is impossible for most people to get a job degree or otherwise, we are in a major depression but you still have a better chance of getting employment not just in Britain but worldwide. all the people who are losing their jobs because of badly planned government cuts will also be fighting for employment with you. the only thing that is personal about these cuts is that they are not designed to improve life for the people of Britain, they are designed to keep the moneymen of Britain friendly with each other, whatever the human cost may be![/p][/quote]Well said! Jonny Knows

4:32pm Fri 26 Nov 10

TheInsider says...

Last March this website was awash with people promoting the Tory vote. Some of you bemoaning these proposed rises must have voted Tory.
You were warned what they were like.
Bast**ds.
W here are the two Tories for Brighton and Hove?
One is probably picking his six kids up from their private school not worrying about fees as he is a multi-millionaire. Once again you were warned.
Last March this website was awash with people promoting the Tory vote. Some of you bemoaning these proposed rises must have voted Tory. You were warned what they were like. Bast**ds. W here are the two Tories for Brighton and Hove? One is probably picking his six kids up from their private school not worrying about fees as he is a multi-millionaire. Once again you were warned. TheInsider

5:25pm Fri 26 Nov 10

Pedroski says...

Thejessa...again, well said.

TippyToes....while further education is a choice, it is still something that should be available to all. And even without the massive fee increase, you would still have to pay for it through supporting son/daughter financially. And independent/mature students still have to pay through student loans to cover living expenses.
Thejessa...again, well said. TippyToes....while further education is a choice, it is still something that should be available to all. And even without the massive fee increase, you would still have to pay for it through supporting son/daughter financially. And independent/mature students still have to pay through student loans to cover living expenses. Pedroski

12:04pm Sat 27 Nov 10

LtPaperclip says...

thejessa wrote:
@LTpaperclip, you aren't by chance a BNP supporter are you? just you have referred to people who are into art as Fairys or girls you want to bring back the stocks and various other methods of barbaric punishments. am very pleased for you being a specialist in your chosen field but obviously it does not involve much interaction with other human beings. If you had children or a little bit more understanding of the national situation you might stop being so small minded and provincial. you might also not see taxes being used for education as a personal vendetta on you, after all I dont agree with the war in afghanistan, I know someof my taxes go towards that and i also know it is not the soldiers fault they have been sent to fight a war that people in Britain didnt want. I know that some of my taxes goes towards helping the disabled and the elderly and social care for deprived people, i also know that some of it goes on big government dinners and flights away. I really dont like the idea that multimillionaire mr cameron can hire a personal photographer to take pictures of him in the act of destroying Britains economy and at the same point take away my childrens future. no, they dont have to go to university but having spent their whole lives telling them to work hard and they will do well, i now should say, sorry kids people like LTpaperclip think that you are grubbing little oiks who deserve nothing, but happily back the rich men in power who spit on your efforts. tell you what, why dont you start visiting state schools and telling the kids they are all worthless in your eyes, however hard they work. in fact try telling your clients for your specialised electrician work that all students are spoilt drunken and lazy and deserve nothing. perhaps they will respond a little differently to you. and for those of you who think university places should be cut by half, i bet you don't include yourself in that half! the job market is impossible for most people to get a job degree or otherwise, we are in a major depression but you still have a better chance of getting employment not just in Britain but worldwide. all the people who are losing their jobs because of badly planned government cuts will also be fighting for employment with you. the only thing that is personal about these cuts is that they are not designed to improve life for the people of Britain, they are designed to keep the moneymen of Britain friendly with each other, whatever the human cost may be!
Jessa... considering I am Jewish with russian parents i would suggest you may wish to say sorry to me. Considering most of my family was murdered by Waffen SS death squads you again may wish to say sorry.
Yes i am severe in what i think... anarchy on the streets is not and never is a way to make change....after all Jessa your a art student arent you ? your in touch with your gentle side ? do you advocate violence against innocent shop keepers to get loans lowered ? Perhaps your pink hair has frazzled your brain which is why you accuse ME of being a Nazi.

http://www.historyle
arningsite.co.uk/hol
ocaust.htm
[quote][p][bold]thejessa[/bold] wrote: @LTpaperclip, you aren't by chance a BNP supporter are you? just you have referred to people who are into art as Fairys or girls you want to bring back the stocks and various other methods of barbaric punishments. am very pleased for you being a specialist in your chosen field but obviously it does not involve much interaction with other human beings. If you had children or a little bit more understanding of the national situation you might stop being so small minded and provincial. you might also not see taxes being used for education as a personal vendetta on you, after all I dont agree with the war in afghanistan, I know someof my taxes go towards that and i also know it is not the soldiers fault they have been sent to fight a war that people in Britain didnt want. I know that some of my taxes goes towards helping the disabled and the elderly and social care for deprived people, i also know that some of it goes on big government dinners and flights away. I really dont like the idea that multimillionaire mr cameron can hire a personal photographer to take pictures of him in the act of destroying Britains economy and at the same point take away my childrens future. no, they dont have to go to university but having spent their whole lives telling them to work hard and they will do well, i now should say, sorry kids people like LTpaperclip think that you are grubbing little oiks who deserve nothing, but happily back the rich men in power who spit on your efforts. tell you what, why dont you start visiting state schools and telling the kids they are all worthless in your eyes, however hard they work. in fact try telling your clients for your specialised electrician work that all students are spoilt drunken and lazy and deserve nothing. perhaps they will respond a little differently to you. and for those of you who think university places should be cut by half, i bet you don't include yourself in that half! the job market is impossible for most people to get a job degree or otherwise, we are in a major depression but you still have a better chance of getting employment not just in Britain but worldwide. all the people who are losing their jobs because of badly planned government cuts will also be fighting for employment with you. the only thing that is personal about these cuts is that they are not designed to improve life for the people of Britain, they are designed to keep the moneymen of Britain friendly with each other, whatever the human cost may be![/p][/quote]Jessa... considering I am Jewish with russian parents i would suggest you may wish to say sorry to me. Considering most of my family was murdered by Waffen SS death squads you again may wish to say sorry. Yes i am severe in what i think... anarchy on the streets is not and never is a way to make change....after all Jessa your a art student arent you ? your in touch with your gentle side ? do you advocate violence against innocent shop keepers to get loans lowered ? Perhaps your pink hair has frazzled your brain which is why you accuse ME of being a Nazi. http://www.historyle arningsite.co.uk/hol ocaust.htm LtPaperclip

12:09pm Sat 27 Nov 10

LtPaperclip says...

Pedroski wrote:
Thejessa...again, well said. TippyToes....while further education is a choice, it is still something that should be available to all. And even without the massive fee increase, you would still have to pay for it through supporting son/daughter financially. And independent/mature students still have to pay through student loans to cover living expenses.
thejessa ..... ignorant
[quote][p][bold]Pedroski[/bold] wrote: Thejessa...again, well said. TippyToes....while further education is a choice, it is still something that should be available to all. And even without the massive fee increase, you would still have to pay for it through supporting son/daughter financially. And independent/mature students still have to pay through student loans to cover living expenses.[/p][/quote]thejessa ..... ignorant LtPaperclip

12:34pm Sat 27 Nov 10

thejessa says...

LTpaperclip, I am not an art student I am also jewish, 35 years old and trained as an electrical mechanical engineer when i was 18, i have spent many years being a project manager on building sites and have come on hard times since the recession and our move to brighton. and have brown hair. considering your own life events and experiences, i would expect you to be more tolerant towards others than you have shown yourself to be. after all if people had bothered to find out what the nazis were actually suggesting and protested against the hitler youth perhaps the horrors of that time would not have occurred. so i apologise for referring to you as a member of the bnp but i do not agree to your attitude towards the government cuts nor your intolerant ideas.
LTpaperclip, I am not an art student I am also jewish, 35 years old and trained as an electrical mechanical engineer when i was 18, i have spent many years being a project manager on building sites and have come on hard times since the recession and our move to brighton. and have brown hair. considering your own life events and experiences, i would expect you to be more tolerant towards others than you have shown yourself to be. after all if people had bothered to find out what the nazis were actually suggesting and protested against the hitler youth perhaps the horrors of that time would not have occurred. so i apologise for referring to you as a member of the bnp but i do not agree to your attitude towards the government cuts nor your intolerant ideas. thejessa

12:41pm Sat 27 Nov 10

thejessa says...

and i believe people were actually saying well said about my opinions of the cuts and the governments intentions, not to the slanging match you and i had gotten into.
and i believe people were actually saying well said about my opinions of the cuts and the governments intentions, not to the slanging match you and i had gotten into. thejessa

12:53pm Sat 27 Nov 10

LtPaperclip says...

Apology accepted. The Nazis were unstoppable in the 1920/30s and unless Hitler himself was killed they were destined for power war and holocaust...anyway i am quiet Orthodox and my views on crime and punishment are stern but they need to be. If students want to go to uni then they will just have to pay the loans or not go. The tory/lib goverment will never do a u TURN LIKE THEY DONE ON POLL TAX.

Shalom. Lets not fight any more and agree to disagree ?
Apology accepted. The Nazis were unstoppable in the 1920/30s and unless Hitler himself was killed they were destined for power war and holocaust...anyway i am quiet Orthodox and my views on crime and punishment are stern but they need to be. If students want to go to uni then they will just have to pay the loans or not go. The tory/lib goverment will never do a u TURN LIKE THEY DONE ON POLL TAX. Shalom. Lets not fight any more and agree to disagree ? LtPaperclip

12:57pm Sat 27 Nov 10

LtPaperclip says...

why did you leave Leeds ?
why did you leave Leeds ? LtPaperclip

1:57pm Sat 27 Nov 10

LtPaperclip says...

anyway back on topic the students loans will not be changed by violence. the fees will be applied until this evil coalition goverment is slung out of office but i dont see that happening for a long time..Labour is dead in the water and there is no other credable party to take power
anyway back on topic the students loans will not be changed by violence. the fees will be applied until this evil coalition goverment is slung out of office but i dont see that happening for a long time..Labour is dead in the water and there is no other credable party to take power LtPaperclip

2:03pm Sat 27 Nov 10

thejessa says...

uhuh, thats not very reassuring really is it. which ever way you look at it. would perhaps be more useful to argue for things you actually believe in and not to use your advantages to freak people out on a personal level. not appreciated, thanks for the debate, sorry its not really important to you. as for the personal research about me, instead of the subject that we were actually debating, well somehow not a surprise.
uhuh, thats not very reassuring really is it. which ever way you look at it. would perhaps be more useful to argue for things you actually believe in and not to use your advantages to freak people out on a personal level. not appreciated, thanks for the debate, sorry its not really important to you. as for the personal research about me, instead of the subject that we were actually debating, well somehow not a surprise. thejessa

2:08pm Sat 27 Nov 10

LtPaperclip says...

I change my moral standing on a daily basis depending on my medication levels lol.... i really dont care about a single thing in life aceppt where i am getting my next meal from...lol lol trolling trolling trolling keep them wagons trolling ....troll army lol oh ne other thing ...every word that comes out my keyboard is a utter lie ...some times i dont even know if i am telling the truth or lying myself...ha haah lol ol olol j hahahahahaha ....i,ll be back
I change my moral standing on a daily basis depending on my medication levels lol.... i really dont care about a single thing in life aceppt where i am getting my next meal from...lol lol trolling trolling trolling keep them wagons trolling ....troll army lol oh ne other thing ...every word that comes out my keyboard is a utter lie ...some times i dont even know if i am telling the truth or lying myself...ha haah lol ol olol j hahahahahaha ....i,ll be back LtPaperclip

2:16pm Sat 27 Nov 10

Brighton Nutter says...

That pesky LtP is up to his old tricks I see.
That pesky LtP is up to his old tricks I see. Brighton Nutter

2:32pm Sat 27 Nov 10

thejessa says...

truth, it was interesting to debate with him but a shame that he then has to take it out of the realm of debate into the personal life, but some people can only be happy when hurting others, very commendable for making a valid point seem like worthless hooraw!
for the rest of you who are actually interested in making the future a better place and care about what happens to this country, please dont stop supporting protests against the cuts. where ever they make them, they will affect all of us. even the numpty doing the insults via his secret world on the web. must be a tory cos he wants to kick us when we are down.
truth, it was interesting to debate with him but a shame that he then has to take it out of the realm of debate into the personal life, but some people can only be happy when hurting others, very commendable for making a valid point seem like worthless hooraw! for the rest of you who are actually interested in making the future a better place and care about what happens to this country, please dont stop supporting protests against the cuts. where ever they make them, they will affect all of us. even the numpty doing the insults via his secret world on the web. must be a tory cos he wants to kick us when we are down. thejessa

8:19pm Tue 30 Nov 10

mr_gee says...

Reading this comments thread makes me depressed at those of you who belittle and dismiss the need for education. Yes, some protesters motivations are not honourable or genuine and yes there are many junk degrees on offer in the UK but honestly can't some of you blowhards at least *try* to take the a 'middle view'?Without an educated workforce, this country's economy will be seriously screwed (you think things are bad now?). When there are so many other things that could be cut, education should be one of the very last things to consider. So you personally have got by in life without a degree? Well done, as long as you're alright why should anyone else complain? Why not try looking at the big picture and other people's needs as well as your own?

@waspexile
"Here here! What the hell does that mean??
Degrees of Ignorance perhaps?
Do I have a Human Right to happiness, or a car? or a job?
No."

Are you for real? Yes education is a human right, according to the UN Declaration at the very least.

I could go on and point out the selfishness, ignorance and short-sightedness of some of the other comments on here but I've probably wasted enough time on it already.
Reading this comments thread makes me depressed at those of you who belittle and dismiss the need for education. Yes, some protesters motivations are not honourable or genuine and yes there are many junk degrees on offer in the UK but honestly can't some of you blowhards at least *try* to take the a 'middle view'?Without an educated workforce, this country's economy will be seriously screwed (you think things are bad now?). When there are so many other things that could be cut, education should be one of the very last things to consider. So you personally have got by in life without a degree? Well done, as long as you're alright why should anyone else complain? Why not try looking at the big picture and other people's needs as well as your own? @waspexile "Here here! What the hell does that mean?? Degrees of Ignorance perhaps? Do I have a Human Right to happiness, or a car? or a job? No." Are you for real? Yes education is a human right, according to the UN Declaration at the very least. I could go on and point out the selfishness, ignorance and short-sightedness of some of the other comments on here but I've probably wasted enough time on it already. mr_gee

12:08am Wed 1 Dec 10

Pedroski says...

Mr_Gee...something else that seems to be forgotten is the amount of money that is injected into the local economy of areas surrounding the universities. Over £1bn (£1,000,000,000.00) injected into the economy by Sussex and Brighton unis, with £967m being spent by the universities in Brighton/Hove and the South East. Student spending in the city, by the combined student population of over 32,700 is huge. The universities also support over 12,000 jobs, most of which are in Brighton and Hove. These universities are two of the largest employers in Brighton. This is something that those who attack the universities and students would do well to consider. The news item is here.... http://www.sussex.ac
.uk/newsandevents/?i
d=5402
Mr_Gee...something else that seems to be forgotten is the amount of money that is injected into the local economy of areas surrounding the universities. Over £1bn (£1,000,000,000.00) injected into the economy by Sussex and Brighton unis, with £967m being spent by the universities in Brighton/Hove and the South East. Student spending in the city, by the combined student population of over 32,700 is huge. The universities also support over 12,000 jobs, most of which are in Brighton and Hove. These universities are two of the largest employers in Brighton. This is something that those who attack the universities and students would do well to consider. The news item is here.... [url]http://www.sussex.ac .uk/newsandevents/?i d=5402[/url] Pedroski

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