MP and Brighton and Hove top cop call for drug use to be decriminalised

MP and Brighton and Hove top cop call for drug use to be decriminalised

MP and Brighton and Hove top cop call for drug use to be decriminalised

First published in News by

A Brighton MP and the city's top policeman have called for personal drug use to be decriminalised as part of a radical rethink on the war on drugs.

Chief Superintendent Graham Bartlett said that a different approach should be looked at to tackle Brighton and Hove’s position as the UK’s drugs death capital.

Brighton Pavilion MP Caroline Lucas said the “war on drugs has failed”.

The pair have called for a fresh debate to curb the number of drug addicts and the best way to treat them including making personal drug possession legal. However Ch Supt Bartlett stressed that the manufacture and supply of drugs should remain a crime.

Last year the city was named as Britain’s drugs death capital for the second year in a row with an average of almost one person a week dying as a result of drugs.

Dr Lucas, who is meeting doctors and NHS workers in Brighton to discuss drugs treatment tonight, said she wants to start a debate on the issue.

She said: “One of my top priorities as a local MP is to tackle Brighton and Hove’s very sad reputation as the drugs death capital of the UK.

“In order to do that, we need to recognise the reality that the so-called “war on drugs” has failed – and start dealing with drugs differently.

“I don’t think it will be easy. A new approach, based on treating drug addiction as a health issue not a criminal one, will represent a significant shift in thinking and any changes should be brought in slowly and carefully.”

Ch Supt Bartlett said: “My officers will continue to enforce the law as it stands. However, my personal view is that whilst production, supply and trafficking are and should remain crimes, the use of drugs is not well addressed through punitive measures.

“Providing people with treatment not only resolves their addiction – thereby minimising risk of overdose, drug related health issues, anti social behaviour and dependence on the state, for example – but cuts the cost to the community by reduced offending.”

For the full report see tomorrow’s Argus.

Comments (82)

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7:34pm Mon 13 Jun 11

reggie kray says...

oh my god !!! so weve lost the war on drugs so lets treat the addicts.......
i could go out and find 10- 20 dealers in a night !! and could have for the last 30 years ..... its all to easy and there lies the problem . so lets make it legal that will be a great deterant ..... come on kids its ok its legal ..... idiots !!
oh my god !!! so weve lost the war on drugs so lets treat the addicts....... i could go out and find 10- 20 dealers in a night !! and could have for the last 30 years ..... its all to easy and there lies the problem . so lets make it legal that will be a great deterant ..... come on kids its ok its legal ..... idiots !! reggie kray
  • Score: 0

7:42pm Mon 13 Jun 11

sdhgfhfuyt says...

Reform will only work if overriding governments allow it to (read or watch anything on the subject by Milton Friedman) - you can't solve a problem like this in a local capacity

how is this 'debate' going to reduce drug deaths? Sure it might result in fewer gang related murders, but even Friedman admits in the short term it will get WORSE with legalization - every other drug dealer from Liverpool (those that are not already here) will be here before we know it


Stopping advertising our city to addicts and drug cartels might be the logical first step in the debate.
Reform will only work if overriding governments allow it to (read or watch anything on the subject by Milton Friedman) - you can't solve a problem like this in a local capacity how is this 'debate' going to reduce drug deaths? Sure it might result in fewer gang related murders, but even Friedman admits in the short term it will get WORSE with legalization - every other drug dealer from Liverpool (those that are not already here) will be here before we know it Stopping advertising our city to addicts and drug cartels might be the logical first step in the debate. sdhgfhfuyt
  • Score: 0

7:58pm Mon 13 Jun 11

brightonparty says...

Reggie Kray

You Sir are an Idiot!

The only people prohibition benefits are organised crime gangs, corrupt civil servants and the media.
The only reason we are in the situation we are in is because politicians have not taken the risk of speaking out about the total failure of the 30 year 'war on drugs'.
If you even did a modicum of research you would find that legalisation does NOT lead to an increase in drug use. FACT
If you were able to think logically and rationally about the problem you would see that this futile war has caused more damage than it was supposed to prevent. Unfortunately it has got to the point where criminals have amassed ever growing fortunes (it was drug money in the banking system that kept us afloat when the banks went down), corruption is rife in the police and prison service, thousands upon thousands of families have been torn apart and many more people have needlessly died a slow and painful death.
Way to go guys, who planned this war exactly???

As the drug death capital of the UK it is our duty to show that there is another way and we can reduce the harm drugs do a we can take a source of revenue away fro organised crime. Of course it won't be easy, if it was easy we would have done it already. Brighton is the only city in the UK that has even the remotest possibility of making a change and showing how it can be done.
Reggie Kray You Sir are an Idiot! The only people prohibition benefits are organised crime gangs, corrupt civil servants and the media. The only reason we are in the situation we are in is because politicians have not taken the risk of speaking out about the total failure of the 30 year 'war on drugs'. If you even did a modicum of research you would find that legalisation does NOT lead to an increase in drug use. FACT If you were able to think logically and rationally about the problem you would see that this futile war has caused more damage than it was supposed to prevent. Unfortunately it has got to the point where criminals have amassed ever growing fortunes (it was drug money in the banking system that kept us afloat when the banks went down), corruption is rife in the police and prison service, thousands upon thousands of families have been torn apart and many more people have needlessly died a slow and painful death. Way to go guys, who planned this war exactly??? As the drug death capital of the UK it is our duty to show that there is another way and we can reduce the harm drugs do a we can take a source of revenue away fro organised crime. Of course it won't be easy, if it was easy we would have done it already. Brighton is the only city in the UK that has even the remotest possibility of making a change and showing how it can be done. brightonparty
  • Score: 0

8:11pm Mon 13 Jun 11

brightonparty says...

BTW.
I speak from experience having sold cannabis as amid-level dealer in Brighton from the mid-eighties through to the mid-nineties.
I experienced 1st hand Police corruption, vicious drug gangs, the piles of cash going into organised crime and witnessed the influx of cheap heroin into Brighton that resulted in at least 15 of my friends getting hooked and dying a slow painful death.
I'm sure they would all be alive now if we as a society, took a more responsible and rational view to drug use.
I was lucky I managed to turn my back on the lure of easy money and started my own company which is now very successful and employs dozens of local people. I still like to smoke cannabis of an evening to relax and as I'm harming no one but myself that shouldn't be a problem for anyone, right?

*think* "If only I could get a government licence to grow a cannabis plant in my own home, what a wonderful world that would be"

Humans getting high....It ain't going to sop any time soon so my advice is just deal with it. :)
BTW. I speak from experience having sold cannabis as amid-level dealer in Brighton from the mid-eighties through to the mid-nineties. I experienced 1st hand Police corruption, vicious drug gangs, the piles of cash going into organised crime and witnessed the influx of cheap heroin into Brighton that resulted in at least 15 of my friends getting hooked and dying a slow painful death. I'm sure they would all be alive now if we as a society, took a more responsible and rational view to drug use. I was lucky I managed to turn my back on the lure of easy money and started my own company which is now very successful and employs dozens of local people. I still like to smoke cannabis of an evening to relax and as I'm harming no one but myself that shouldn't be a problem for anyone, right? *think* "If only I could get a government licence to grow a cannabis plant in my own home, what a wonderful world that would be" Humans getting high....It ain't going to sop any time soon so my advice is just deal with it. :) brightonparty
  • Score: 0

8:15pm Mon 13 Jun 11

sdhgfhfuyt says...

brightonparty wrote:
Reggie Kray

You Sir are an Idiot!

The only people prohibition benefits are organised crime gangs, corrupt civil servants and the media.
The only reason we are in the situation we are in is because politicians have not taken the risk of speaking out about the total failure of the 30 year 'war on drugs'.
If you even did a modicum of research you would find that legalisation does NOT lead to an increase in drug use. FACT
If you were able to think logically and rationally about the problem you would see that this futile war has caused more damage than it was supposed to prevent. Unfortunately it has got to the point where criminals have amassed ever growing fortunes (it was drug money in the banking system that kept us afloat when the banks went down), corruption is rife in the police and prison service, thousands upon thousands of families have been torn apart and many more people have needlessly died a slow and painful death.
Way to go guys, who planned this war exactly???

As the drug death capital of the UK it is our duty to show that there is another way and we can reduce the harm drugs do a we can take a source of revenue away fro organised crime. Of course it won't be easy, if it was easy we would have done it already. Brighton is the only city in the UK that has even the remotest possibility of making a change and showing how it can be done.
There's a lot to unpack in your emotion fueled argument; to be honest, writing the word 'FACT' within a sentence doesn't actually allude to a factual statement when you have no references to support it
[quote][p][bold]brightonparty[/bold] wrote: Reggie Kray You Sir are an Idiot! The only people prohibition benefits are organised crime gangs, corrupt civil servants and the media. The only reason we are in the situation we are in is because politicians have not taken the risk of speaking out about the total failure of the 30 year 'war on drugs'. If you even did a modicum of research you would find that legalisation does NOT lead to an increase in drug use. FACT If you were able to think logically and rationally about the problem you would see that this futile war has caused more damage than it was supposed to prevent. Unfortunately it has got to the point where criminals have amassed ever growing fortunes (it was drug money in the banking system that kept us afloat when the banks went down), corruption is rife in the police and prison service, thousands upon thousands of families have been torn apart and many more people have needlessly died a slow and painful death. Way to go guys, who planned this war exactly??? As the drug death capital of the UK it is our duty to show that there is another way and we can reduce the harm drugs do a we can take a source of revenue away fro organised crime. Of course it won't be easy, if it was easy we would have done it already. Brighton is the only city in the UK that has even the remotest possibility of making a change and showing how it can be done.[/p][/quote]There's a lot to unpack in your emotion fueled argument; to be honest, writing the word 'FACT' within a sentence doesn't actually allude to a factual statement when you have no references to support it sdhgfhfuyt
  • Score: 0

8:32pm Mon 13 Jun 11

brightonparty says...

yes this is one of the things I am VERY passionate about FACT :)
I've done my research so you'll just have to trust me ;)

I've harangued the council about this on more than one occasion. It sickens me to see how bad things have got. 20 years ago I said to the police who were constantly arresting me (or trying to) "why the **** are you hassling me when heroin is much more of a problem"
They tried to frame me once to get me to name my supplier, I told them where to go and if I knew anyone selling Heroin I would tell them but not for dope.

I've been there, done that, got the t-shirt and criminal record.
If you think about it, I mean really, really think about it. What is the logical conclusion of the current war on drugs? If it's got a happy ending I'd love to hear it!
yes this is one of the things I am VERY passionate about FACT :) I've done my research so you'll just have to trust me ;) I've harangued the council about this on more than one occasion. It sickens me to see how bad things have got. 20 years ago I said to the police who were constantly arresting me (or trying to) "why the **** are you hassling me when heroin is much more of a problem" They tried to frame me once to get me to name my supplier, I told them where to go and if I knew anyone selling Heroin I would tell them but not for dope. I've been there, done that, got the t-shirt and criminal record. If you think about it, I mean really, really think about it. What is the logical conclusion of the current war on drugs? If it's got a happy ending I'd love to hear it! brightonparty
  • Score: 0

8:34pm Mon 13 Jun 11

TheInsider says...

I have a few friends who have class A addicted children now in their 40s, who despite getting their smack paid for by their ageing 'middle-class' parents, they still steal, still take handfuls of prescription drugs in the mix (some of these are stolen, some prescribed), they still drink and also mix this with methadone and the police have already 'decriminalised' their habits by leaving the parents to deal with their illegal behaviour.
They still have nasty 'colleagues' turning up at their houses who don't want to kick the habit and one couple even came home to find a junkie dead in their bungalow from an overdose.
This 'unofficial' decriminalisation hasn't worked either, it's just given the police an excuse to offload a problem.
I really don't know what the answer is but I think this suggestion may also be an over-simplification.
I have a few friends who have class A addicted children now in their 40s, who despite getting their smack paid for by their ageing 'middle-class' parents, they still steal, still take handfuls of prescription drugs in the mix (some of these are stolen, some prescribed), they still drink and also mix this with methadone and the police have already 'decriminalised' their habits by leaving the parents to deal with their illegal behaviour. They still have nasty 'colleagues' turning up at their houses who don't want to kick the habit and one couple even came home to find a junkie dead in their bungalow from an overdose. This 'unofficial' decriminalisation hasn't worked either, it's just given the police an excuse to offload a problem. I really don't know what the answer is but I think this suggestion may also be an over-simplification. TheInsider
  • Score: 0

8:37pm Mon 13 Jun 11

brightonparty says...

....and I'm not one for conspiracy theories but before we went into Afghanistan the Taliban had virtually eradicated heroin production. As of now Afghanistan supplies some 92% of the Worlds Opium. It would be funny if it wasn't true.

http://en.wikipedia.
org/wiki/Opium_produ
ction_in_Afghanistan


http://www.nps.edu/P
rograms/CCS/Docs/Opi
um/Heroin_processing
.pdf

http://ideas.repec.o
rg/p/kyo/wpaper/635.
html
....and I'm not one for conspiracy theories but before we went into Afghanistan the Taliban had virtually eradicated heroin production. As of now Afghanistan supplies some 92% of the Worlds Opium. It would be funny if it wasn't true. http://en.wikipedia. org/wiki/Opium_produ ction_in_Afghanistan http://www.nps.edu/P rograms/CCS/Docs/Opi um/Heroin_processing .pdf http://ideas.repec.o rg/p/kyo/wpaper/635. html brightonparty
  • Score: 0

8:41pm Mon 13 Jun 11

brightonparty says...

http://en.wikipedia.
org/wiki/Illegal_dru
g_trade.

http://www.wellcomec
ollection.org/whats-
on/exhibitions/high-
society.aspx
http://en.wikipedia. org/wiki/Illegal_dru g_trade. http://www.wellcomec ollection.org/whats- on/exhibitions/high- society.aspx brightonparty
  • Score: 0

8:42pm Mon 13 Jun 11

haris_pilton says...

well let's not take everything on wikipedia as fact either, as anyone can contribute to it.
well let's not take everything on wikipedia as fact either, as anyone can contribute to it. haris_pilton
  • Score: 0

8:49pm Mon 13 Jun 11

brightonparty says...

haris_pilton wrote:
well let's not take everything on wikipedia as fact either, as anyone can contribute to it.
of course... but it's a condensed form and easy to access for those with short attention spans.

The plain fact is that the current situation is not working. It's pretty easy to get a grip on it, but no doubt the press will whip up a storm as usual and all sensible debate will be lost in a blizzard of emotion.

http://www.un.org/ap
ps/news/story.asp?Ne
wsID=25523&Cr=afghan
&Cr1=drugs
this was 3 years ago, nothing has changed much
[quote][p][bold]haris_pilton[/bold] wrote: well let's not take everything on wikipedia as fact either, as anyone can contribute to it.[/p][/quote]of course... but it's a condensed form and easy to access for those with short attention spans. The plain fact is that the current situation is not working. It's pretty easy to get a grip on it, but no doubt the press will whip up a storm as usual and all sensible debate will be lost in a blizzard of emotion. http://www.un.org/ap ps/news/story.asp?Ne wsID=25523&Cr=afghan &Cr1=drugs this was 3 years ago, nothing has changed much brightonparty
  • Score: 0

8:51pm Mon 13 Jun 11

brightonparty says...

https://www.cia.gov/
library/publications
/the-world-factbook/
geos/af.html
https://www.cia.gov/ library/publications /the-world-factbook/ geos/af.html brightonparty
  • Score: 0

9:06pm Mon 13 Jun 11

Hove Actually says...

Didn't they just try down grading Cannabis? and realise they had not cured the problem.
Trouble is give people an inch and they want a mile, the same arguement is used for not raising the speed limits.

BUT i think the govenemnt selling drugs to make money would work ,,,,,,,maybe
Didn't they just try down grading Cannabis? and realise they had not cured the problem. Trouble is give people an inch and they want a mile, the same arguement is used for not raising the speed limits. BUT i think the govenemnt selling drugs to make money would work ,,,,,,,maybe Hove Actually
  • Score: 0

9:22pm Mon 13 Jun 11

sdhgfhfuyt says...

brightonparty wrote:
haris_pilton wrote:
well let's not take everything on wikipedia as fact either, as anyone can contribute to it.
of course... but it's a condensed form and easy to access for those with short attention spans.

The plain fact is that the current situation is not working. It's pretty easy to get a grip on it, but no doubt the press will whip up a storm as usual and all sensible debate will be lost in a blizzard of emotion.

http://www.un.org/ap

ps/news/story.asp?Ne

wsID=25523&Cr=af
ghan
&Cr1=drugs
this was 3 years ago, nothing has changed much
http://www.youtube.c
om/watch?v=oyystXOfD
qo

great video from one of the most intelligent economists who ever lived. Fair enough he's a capitalist, and is referring to a different era/place, but a lot of the arguments are still valid.
[quote][p][bold]brightonparty[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]haris_pilton[/bold] wrote: well let's not take everything on wikipedia as fact either, as anyone can contribute to it.[/p][/quote]of course... but it's a condensed form and easy to access for those with short attention spans. The plain fact is that the current situation is not working. It's pretty easy to get a grip on it, but no doubt the press will whip up a storm as usual and all sensible debate will be lost in a blizzard of emotion. http://www.un.org/ap ps/news/story.asp?Ne wsID=25523&Cr=af ghan &Cr1=drugs this was 3 years ago, nothing has changed much[/p][/quote]http://www.youtube.c om/watch?v=oyystXOfD qo great video from one of the most intelligent economists who ever lived. Fair enough he's a capitalist, and is referring to a different era/place, but a lot of the arguments are still valid. sdhgfhfuyt
  • Score: 0

9:42pm Mon 13 Jun 11

mtmoocher says...

Send them to an opiate farm where they can grow their own & live happily ever after! (For about 6 months until they inevitably overdose.) Put Farmer Bartlett in charge of the work rota & Dr Lucas can write a paper on the whole experience of Utopian decriminalisation which she can submit to all the Parliaments of the planet. In the meantime we can have zero-tolerance from the police & a MP who truly understands & appreciates the local psyche. WE WANT OUR TOWNS/CITY BACK!
Send them to an opiate farm where they can grow their own & live happily ever after! (For about 6 months until they inevitably overdose.) Put Farmer Bartlett in charge of the work rota & Dr Lucas can write a paper on the whole experience of Utopian decriminalisation which she can submit to all the Parliaments of the planet. In the meantime we can have zero-tolerance from the police & a MP who truly understands & appreciates the local psyche. WE WANT OUR TOWNS/CITY BACK! mtmoocher
  • Score: 0

9:56pm Mon 13 Jun 11

reggie kray says...

brighton party ..as a farther of two teenage boys im entitled to be worried about drugs .... its out of control its to easily available and there is no deterant . legalising it will mean its ok to go to the dealer its ok to carry it around its ok to take it .... well as a parent im telling them its not .
im sick of toffy nosed waffle FACT!! your not street wise , Fact !! Take your head out of your book and open your eyes.
Drugs ruin lives FACT!! and thats what i tell my boys ........_
brighton party ..as a farther of two teenage boys im entitled to be worried about drugs .... its out of control its to easily available and there is no deterant . legalising it will mean its ok to go to the dealer its ok to carry it around its ok to take it .... well as a parent im telling them its not . im sick of toffy nosed waffle FACT!! your not street wise , Fact !! Take your head out of your book and open your eyes. Drugs ruin lives FACT!! and thats what i tell my boys ........_ reggie kray
  • Score: 0

10:07pm Mon 13 Jun 11

george smith says...

Really dim argument, we lose out on lots of crimes, fraud, kicking off of wing mirrors, but it isn't an excuse to legalise them
Really dim argument, we lose out on lots of crimes, fraud, kicking off of wing mirrors, but it isn't an excuse to legalise them george smith
  • Score: 0

10:07pm Mon 13 Jun 11

george smith says...

Really dim argument, we lose out on lots of crimes, fraud, kicking off of wing mirrors, but it isn't an excuse to legalise them
Really dim argument, we lose out on lots of crimes, fraud, kicking off of wing mirrors, but it isn't an excuse to legalise them george smith
  • Score: 0

10:15pm Mon 13 Jun 11

Manag. says...

They should legalise drugs..after all, if alcohol is legal why shouldn't the others be, and they are beginning to manage the problems this causes, even the high % of people ending up in the a + e as a result of it.
All drugs should have government health warnings on them as per tobacco.
Cannabis eg would read 'by taking cannabis, severe paranoia and delusions of self grandeur are guaranteed, you are also likely to develop paranoid schizoprenia, start writing manic, deluded articles in your local paper's forum, ending life in a hermitic state answering the door or phone to no one but your dealer
They should legalise drugs..after all, if alcohol is legal why shouldn't the others be, and they are beginning to manage the problems this causes, even the high % of people ending up in the a + e as a result of it. All drugs should have government health warnings on them as per tobacco. Cannabis eg would read 'by taking cannabis, severe paranoia and delusions of self grandeur are guaranteed, you are also likely to develop paranoid schizoprenia, start writing manic, deluded articles in your local paper's forum, ending life in a hermitic state answering the door or phone to no one but your dealer Manag.
  • Score: 0

10:21pm Mon 13 Jun 11

RapMC says...

What a stupid, stupid, stupid man this Caroline Lucas is. What planet is he living on to think the answer is to legalise drugs?

We have a knife problem, lets legalise illegal weapons.

We have a child **** problem, lets lower the age of consent to 6.

I am certain the idiots who voted this filthy Marxist party in will be laughing when their house gets burgled by drug-induced maniacs.

Ahhhh bless 'em!
What a stupid, stupid, stupid man this Caroline Lucas is. What planet is he living on to think the answer is to legalise drugs? We have a knife problem, lets legalise illegal weapons. We have a child **** problem, lets lower the age of consent to 6. I am certain the idiots who voted this filthy Marxist party in will be laughing when their house gets burgled by drug-induced maniacs. Ahhhh bless 'em! RapMC
  • Score: 0

10:26pm Mon 13 Jun 11

brightonparty says...

lets get one thing straight. No one is going to legalise drugs any time soon.
There is a deterrent, Jail and confiscation of assets. As you probably know this isn't really working so your next logical conclusion is the death penalty for ALL drug users and dealers, not really what we want in a progressive, civilised democracy is it?

Just because I'm a 'reader' does not mean I haven't got real life experience. I was brought up on the streets and estates of Brighton and mixed with the roughest of the rough. I Sir am not toffee-nosed! :)

if you want to reduce drug use, reduce crime, lower council tax bills and improve the quality of life for future generations.
The first step is to admit we got it wrong and the war has failed.
Then start treating current heroin addicts, in exchange for clean heroin (not methadone) they attend drug rehabilitation and do some form of community work, help other addicts get clean and educate children about the very real dangers of drugs.
A person who can overcome heroin addiction and lead a full and productive life is worth at least two of us.

there will always be 5-10% of addicts who are too far gone, we just have to manage them, it would cost far less than we currently pay for their welfare.
But over time the number of hopeless addicts decreases as the rehabilitation programmes take affect (prob 3-5 years)

If you take heroin off the streets and into the clinics there is less chance of your kids coming into contact with it. This would reduce the number of new addicts.

Organised crime would look for other avenues of funding, the police would be able to do their job properly, the streets would be safer (tourists wouldn't get 'taxed') etc etc..but most importantly YOUR children might have a chance to raise your Grandchildren in a society where drugs are not abused.....
lets get one thing straight. No one is going to legalise drugs any time soon. There is a deterrent, Jail and confiscation of assets. As you probably know this isn't really working so your next logical conclusion is the death penalty for ALL drug users and dealers, not really what we want in a progressive, civilised democracy is it? Just because I'm a 'reader' does not mean I haven't got real life experience. I was brought up on the streets and estates of Brighton and mixed with the roughest of the rough. I Sir am not toffee-nosed! :) if you want to reduce drug use, reduce crime, lower council tax bills and improve the quality of life for future generations. The first step is to admit we got it wrong and the war has failed. Then start treating current heroin addicts, in exchange for clean heroin (not methadone) they attend drug rehabilitation and do some form of community work, help other addicts get clean and educate children about the very real dangers of drugs. A person who can overcome heroin addiction and lead a full and productive life is worth at least two of us. there will always be 5-10% of addicts who are too far gone, we just have to manage them, it would cost far less than we currently pay for their welfare. But over time the number of hopeless addicts decreases as the rehabilitation programmes take affect (prob 3-5 years) If you take heroin off the streets and into the clinics there is less chance of your kids coming into contact with it. This would reduce the number of new addicts. Organised crime would look for other avenues of funding, the police would be able to do their job properly, the streets would be safer (tourists wouldn't get 'taxed') etc etc..but most importantly YOUR children might have a chance to raise your Grandchildren in a society where drugs are not abused..... brightonparty
  • Score: 0

10:29pm Mon 13 Jun 11

anubis says...

Drug-related crime costs the UK economy around £13 billion a year in terms of police resources, recidivism, public health, etc. -- an obscene waste of money in what is purported to be an age of austerity.

The United Nations commission, quite correctly, calls for an end to the “criminalisation, marginalisation and stigmatisation of people who use drugs, but who do no harm to others” - and suggests leading figures in political and public life to “have the courage to articulate publicly what many of them acknowledge privately”, which is that “the evidence overwhelmingly demonstrates that repressive strategies will not solve the drug problem” and that “the war on drugs has not, and cannot, be won”. Instead, what is urgently needed on this issue is a “paradigm shift” - citing the more liberal or enlightened drugs policies of Portugal, Holland and Australia as positive evidence of the “human and social benefits of treating drug addiction as a health rather than criminal justice problem”.

Portugal is a particularly instructive example, historically having one of the highest levels of hard drug use - and abuse - on the continent, the number of heroin-users in 2000 measuring between 50,000 and 100,000 (and a correspondingly high level of HIV/Aids infection). But in 2001 it became the first European country to officially abolish all criminal penalties for ‘personal possession’ of drugs - defined as up to 10 days’ supply, including cocaine, heroine and LSD. Prison sentences were replaced with therapy and treatment. Far from becoming a magnet for drugs tourism though, after five years of decriminalisation, Portugal found that the illegal use of drugs by teenagers had significantly declined, rates of HIV infection sharply fell and the numbers of people requesting therapy to get off drugs had more than doubled. A definite and measurable success in terms of public heath and general societal well-being.
Drug-related crime costs the UK economy around £13 billion a year in terms of police resources, recidivism, public health, etc. -- an obscene waste of money in what is purported to be an age of austerity. The United Nations commission, quite correctly, calls for an end to the “criminalisation, marginalisation and stigmatisation of people who use drugs, but who do no harm to others” - and suggests leading figures in political and public life to “have the courage to articulate publicly what many of them acknowledge privately”, which is that “the evidence overwhelmingly demonstrates that repressive strategies will not solve the drug problem” and that “the war on drugs has not, and cannot, be won”. Instead, what is urgently needed on this issue is a “paradigm shift” - citing the more liberal or enlightened drugs policies of Portugal, Holland and Australia as positive evidence of the “human and social benefits of treating drug addiction as a health rather than criminal justice problem”. Portugal is a particularly instructive example, historically having one of the highest levels of hard drug use - and abuse - on the continent, the number of heroin-users in 2000 measuring between 50,000 and 100,000 (and a correspondingly high level of HIV/Aids infection). But in 2001 it became the first European country to officially abolish all criminal penalties for ‘personal possession’ of drugs - defined as up to 10 days’ supply, including cocaine, heroine and LSD. Prison sentences were replaced with therapy and treatment. Far from becoming a magnet for drugs tourism though, after five years of decriminalisation, Portugal found that the illegal use of drugs by teenagers had significantly declined, rates of HIV infection sharply fell and the numbers of people requesting therapy to get off drugs had more than doubled. A definite and measurable success in terms of public heath and general societal well-being. anubis
  • Score: 0

10:33pm Mon 13 Jun 11

brightonparty says...

nice one Anubis.
Some of the people here can't see the Wood for the Greens.....
nice one Anubis. Some of the people here can't see the Wood for the Greens..... brightonparty
  • Score: 0

10:36pm Mon 13 Jun 11

brightonparty says...

Oh, and well done Caroline Lucas.
She's got more cajones than any of the faceless men on here.

I bid you farewell and good night.
Oh, and well done Caroline Lucas. She's got more cajones than any of the faceless men on here. I bid you farewell and good night. brightonparty
  • Score: 0

10:46pm Mon 13 Jun 11

Lord Tilford says...

Surely, even if personal possession is legal but supplying is still illegal, then the cost of drugs will continue to be high, which is the main factor for crimes associated with addiction - shoplifting, burglary, mugging etc. And drugs would still be 'cut' to increase profits.

I always wonder where treatment centres (or even legal 'drug shops') would get their opium, cocaine and cannabis from if drugs were de-criminalised. Legalising it in this country would not mean that there would then be a legal supply from another country.
Surely, even if personal possession is legal but supplying is still illegal, then the cost of drugs will continue to be high, which is the main factor for crimes associated with addiction - shoplifting, burglary, mugging etc. And drugs would still be 'cut' to increase profits. I always wonder where treatment centres (or even legal 'drug shops') would get their opium, cocaine and cannabis from if drugs were de-criminalised. Legalising it in this country would not mean that there would then be a legal supply from another country. Lord Tilford
  • Score: 0

11:39pm Mon 13 Jun 11

Manag. says...

anubis wrote:
Drug-related crime costs the UK economy around £13 billion a year in terms of police resources, recidivism, public health, etc. -- an obscene waste of money in what is purported to be an age of austerity.

The United Nations commission, quite correctly, calls for an end to the “criminalisation, marginalisation and stigmatisation of people who use drugs, but who do no harm to others” - and suggests leading figures in political and public life to “have the courage to articulate publicly what many of them acknowledge privately”, which is that “the evidence overwhelmingly demonstrates that repressive strategies will not solve the drug problem” and that “the war on drugs has not, and cannot, be won”. Instead, what is urgently needed on this issue is a “paradigm shift” - citing the more liberal or enlightened drugs policies of Portugal, Holland and Australia as positive evidence of the “human and social benefits of treating drug addiction as a health rather than criminal justice problem”.

Portugal is a particularly instructive example, historically having one of the highest levels of hard drug use - and abuse - on the continent, the number of heroin-users in 2000 measuring between 50,000 and 100,000 (and a correspondingly high level of HIV/Aids infection). But in 2001 it became the first European country to officially abolish all criminal penalties for ‘personal possession’ of drugs - defined as up to 10 days’ supply, including cocaine, heroine and LSD. Prison sentences were replaced with therapy and treatment. Far from becoming a magnet for drugs tourism though, after five years of decriminalisation, Portugal found that the illegal use of drugs by teenagers had significantly declined, rates of HIV infection sharply fell and the numbers of people requesting therapy to get off drugs had more than doubled. A definite and measurable success in terms of public heath and general societal well-being.
Phew,,,done all that writing...time for anoter spliffffffff...aahhh
hhhhh
[quote][p][bold]anubis[/bold] wrote: Drug-related crime costs the UK economy around £13 billion a year in terms of police resources, recidivism, public health, etc. -- an obscene waste of money in what is purported to be an age of austerity. The United Nations commission, quite correctly, calls for an end to the “criminalisation, marginalisation and stigmatisation of people who use drugs, but who do no harm to others” - and suggests leading figures in political and public life to “have the courage to articulate publicly what many of them acknowledge privately”, which is that “the evidence overwhelmingly demonstrates that repressive strategies will not solve the drug problem” and that “the war on drugs has not, and cannot, be won”. Instead, what is urgently needed on this issue is a “paradigm shift” - citing the more liberal or enlightened drugs policies of Portugal, Holland and Australia as positive evidence of the “human and social benefits of treating drug addiction as a health rather than criminal justice problem”. Portugal is a particularly instructive example, historically having one of the highest levels of hard drug use - and abuse - on the continent, the number of heroin-users in 2000 measuring between 50,000 and 100,000 (and a correspondingly high level of HIV/Aids infection). But in 2001 it became the first European country to officially abolish all criminal penalties for ‘personal possession’ of drugs - defined as up to 10 days’ supply, including cocaine, heroine and LSD. Prison sentences were replaced with therapy and treatment. Far from becoming a magnet for drugs tourism though, after five years of decriminalisation, Portugal found that the illegal use of drugs by teenagers had significantly declined, rates of HIV infection sharply fell and the numbers of people requesting therapy to get off drugs had more than doubled. A definite and measurable success in terms of public heath and general societal well-being.[/p][/quote]Phew,,,done all that writing...time for anoter spliffffffff...aahhh hhhhh Manag.
  • Score: 0

11:45pm Mon 13 Jun 11

malcolmkyle says...

If you are a Prohibitionist then you owe us answers to the following questions:

#1. Why do you rejoice at the fact that we have all been stripped of our 4th amendment rights and are now totally subordinate to a corporatized, despotic government with a heavily armed and corrupt, militarized police force whose often deadly intrusions into our homes and lives are condoned by an equally corrupt and spineless judiciary?

#2. Why do you wish to continue to spend $50 billion a year to prosecute and cage your fellow citizens for choosing drugs which are not more dangerous than those of which you yourself use and approve of such as alcohol and tobacco?

#3. Do you honestly expect the rest of us to look on passively while you waste another trillion dollars on this garbage policy?

#4. Why are your waging war on your own family, friends and neighbors?

#5. Why are you so complacent with the fact that our once 'free & proud' nation now has the largest percentage of it's citizenry incarcerated than any other on the entire planet?

#6. Why are you helping to fuel a budget crisis to the point of closing hospitals, schools and libraries?

#7. Why do you rejoice at wasting precious resources on prohibition related undercover work while rapists and murderers walk free, while additionally, many cases involving murder and rape do not even get taken to trial because law enforcement priorities are subverted by your beloved failed and dangerous policy?

#8. Why are you such a supporter of the 'prison industrial complex' to the extent of endangering our own children?

#9. Will you graciously applaud, when due to your own incipient and authoritarian approach, even your own child is caged and raped?

* It is estimated that there are over 300,000 instances of prison rape a year.
* 196,000 are estimated to happen to men in prison.
* 123,000 are estimated to happen to men in county jail.
* 40,000 are estimated to be committed against boys in either adult prisons or while in juvenile facilities or lock ups.
* 5000 women are estimated to be raped in prison.

http://www.loompanic
s.com/Articles/RapeI
nPrison.html

#10. And will you also applaud when your own child, due to an unnecessary and counter productive felony conviction, can no longer find employment?

Private prisons are publicly traded and their stock value is tied to the number of inmates. Here's what the UK Economist Magazine thinks of the situation: "Never in the civilised world have so many been locked up for so little" http://www.economist
.com/node/16636027

According to Paul Craig Roberts, a former editor of the Wall Street Journal and former assistant secretary to the treasury under Ronald Reagan, "Police in the US now rival criminals, and exceed terrorists as the greatest threat to the American public."

"Narcotics police are an enormous, corrupt international bureaucracy and now fund a coterie of researchers who provide them with ‘scientific support’, fanatics who distort the legitimate research of others. The anti-marijuana campaign is a cancerous tissue of lies, undermining law enforcement, aggravating the drug problem, depriving the sick of needed help, and suckering well-intentioned conservatives and countless frightened parents."  – William F. Buckley, Commentary in The National Review, April 29, 1983, p. 495

There is no conflict between liberty and safety. We will have both or neither.
William Ramsey Clark (1927--)
If you are a Prohibitionist then you owe us answers to the following questions: #1. Why do you rejoice at the fact that we have all been stripped of our 4th amendment rights and are now totally subordinate to a corporatized, despotic government with a heavily armed and corrupt, militarized police force whose often deadly intrusions into our homes and lives are condoned by an equally corrupt and spineless judiciary? #2. Why do you wish to continue to spend $50 billion a year to prosecute and cage your fellow citizens for choosing drugs which are not more dangerous than those of which you yourself use and approve of such as alcohol and tobacco? #3. Do you honestly expect the rest of us to look on passively while you waste another trillion dollars on this garbage policy? #4. Why are your waging war on your own family, friends and neighbors? #5. Why are you so complacent with the fact that our once 'free & proud' nation now has the largest percentage of it's citizenry incarcerated than any other on the entire planet? #6. Why are you helping to fuel a budget crisis to the point of closing hospitals, schools and libraries? #7. Why do you rejoice at wasting precious resources on prohibition related undercover work while rapists and murderers walk free, while additionally, many cases involving murder and rape do not even get taken to trial because law enforcement priorities are subverted by your beloved failed and dangerous policy? #8. Why are you such a supporter of the 'prison industrial complex' to the extent of endangering our own children? #9. Will you graciously applaud, when due to your own incipient and authoritarian approach, even your own child is caged and raped? * It is estimated that there are over 300,000 instances of prison rape a year.
* 196,000 are estimated to happen to men in prison.
* 123,000 are estimated to happen to men in county jail.
* 40,000 are estimated to be committed against boys in either adult prisons or while in juvenile facilities or lock ups.
* 5000 women are estimated to be raped in prison. http://www.loompanic s.com/Articles/RapeI nPrison.html #10. And will you also applaud when your own child, due to an unnecessary and counter productive felony conviction, can no longer find employment? Private prisons are publicly traded and their stock value is tied to the number of inmates. Here's what the UK Economist Magazine thinks of the situation: "Never in the civilised world have so many been locked up for so little" http://www.economist .com/node/16636027 According to Paul Craig Roberts, a former editor of the Wall Street Journal and former assistant secretary to the treasury under Ronald Reagan, "Police in the US now rival criminals, and exceed terrorists as the greatest threat to the American public." "Narcotics police are an enormous, corrupt international bureaucracy and now fund a coterie of researchers who provide them with ‘scientific support’, fanatics who distort the legitimate research of others. The anti-marijuana campaign is a cancerous tissue of lies, undermining law enforcement, aggravating the drug problem, depriving the sick of needed help, and suckering well-intentioned conservatives and countless frightened parents."  – William F. Buckley, Commentary in The National Review, April 29, 1983, p. 495 There is no conflict between liberty and safety. We will have both or neither.
William Ramsey Clark (1927--) malcolmkyle
  • Score: 0

3:46am Tue 14 Jun 11

Skippah says...

george smith wrote:
Really dim argument, we lose out on lots of crimes, fraud, kicking off of wing mirrors, but it isn't an excuse to legalise them
Difference is, those other crimes have victims. Me smoking a joint of an evening hurts NOBODY except myself, so what business of yours or the governments is it if I choose to smoke instead of poisoning myself with booze at night.
[quote][p][bold]george smith[/bold] wrote: Really dim argument, we lose out on lots of crimes, fraud, kicking off of wing mirrors, but it isn't an excuse to legalise them[/p][/quote]Difference is, those other crimes have victims. Me smoking a joint of an evening hurts NOBODY except myself, so what business of yours or the governments is it if I choose to smoke instead of poisoning myself with booze at night. Skippah
  • Score: 0

3:46am Tue 14 Jun 11

Skippah says...

Difference is, those other crimes have victims. Me smoking a joint of an evening hurts NOBODY except myself, so what business of yours or the governments is it if I choose to smoke instead of poisoning myself with booze at night.
Difference is, those other crimes have victims. Me smoking a joint of an evening hurts NOBODY except myself, so what business of yours or the governments is it if I choose to smoke instead of poisoning myself with booze at night. Skippah
  • Score: 0

3:46am Tue 14 Jun 11

Skippah says...

Difference is, those other crimes have victims. Me smoking a joint of an evening hurts NOBODY except myself, so what business of yours or the governments is it if I choose to smoke instead of poisoning myself with booze at night.
Difference is, those other crimes have victims. Me smoking a joint of an evening hurts NOBODY except myself, so what business of yours or the governments is it if I choose to smoke instead of poisoning myself with booze at night. Skippah
  • Score: 0

7:01am Tue 14 Jun 11

haris_pilton says...

reggie kray wrote:
brighton party ..as a farther of two teenage boys im entitled to be worried about drugs .... its out of control its to easily available and there is no deterant . legalising it will mean its ok to go to the dealer its ok to carry it around its ok to take it .... well as a parent im telling them its not .
im sick of toffy nosed waffle FACT!! your not street wise , Fact !! Take your head out of your book and open your eyes.
Drugs ruin lives FACT!! and thats what i tell my boys ........_
I hope you don't teach them spelling
[quote][p][bold]reggie kray[/bold] wrote: brighton party ..as a farther of two teenage boys im entitled to be worried about drugs .... its out of control its to easily available and there is no deterant . legalising it will mean its ok to go to the dealer its ok to carry it around its ok to take it .... well as a parent im telling them its not . im sick of toffy nosed waffle FACT!! your not street wise , Fact !! Take your head out of your book and open your eyes. Drugs ruin lives FACT!! and thats what i tell my boys ........_[/p][/quote]I hope you don't teach them spelling haris_pilton
  • Score: 0

7:28am Tue 14 Jun 11

kidfortuna says...

When people use the argument that knife crime is illegal so lets just decriminalise that too so there are less knife-crimes or burglaries etc etc.. It's a different animal entirely! They are crimes AGAINST people - drug use is harming noone but the individual doing it. The harm that extends to others is a direct result of prohibition. Imagine this...

I walk to my local oharmacist and I buy a gram of diamorphine. I go home and inject it at my leisure and go about my day. (I have been a heroin user in the past and the idea you just zonk out after a hit is rubbish, I usually get pretty active. My house is gleaming after a nice hit of heroin on most occasions). Have I harmed anyone? No.

As it is, we have a multi billion dollar industry run by criminals who target the poor and the desperate to take their risks for them and therefore spread as much harm to others as possible. Forgot who said it but No drug in history has every been made safer by making it illegal. Are we going to continually bang on about the 'wrongs' of drug use when the majority of us wake up with coffee (stimulant) and end the day with a beer or a couple of glasses of wine (depressant).

And to those who think it would cause a 'drug-explosion' I'lll tell you a story. I was once in a city I'd never been to before. I wanted to score some heroin. I scored the heroin in less time than it took me to find and buy a roll of tin foil to smoke it off of. That is how easy it is wherever you are in the country.

One posters point about it not working if it's only confined to a certain area (Brighton and HOve) is a good one. It'll becoome a magnet so it needs to be a national policy. Look what happened in Brixton when cannabis was decriminalised for a while - it just became a cannabis hub until the law was changed.

It would definitely take a couple of years or so before Britain was able to start taking responsibility to their own drug use but we'd get there in the end. We've just been far too 'nannyed' around drug consumption for too long now that we'd be like kids in a sweet shop to begin with.

People will ALWAYS take drugs - changing your consciousness is a normal part of the human condition and has been argues as one of the basic needs of our race. If this is so, what the hell are we doing making it illegal??

More than anything I just don't understand why people think the present system has any merit whatsoever, we need a change because people are dying every day from drugs they don't have to. Pure pharmaceutical heroin is non-toxic to the body with the most severe side effects being constipation and addiction - addiction doesn't matter if you have regular and cheap access to said chemical does it? Look at cigarettes.
When people use the argument that knife crime is illegal so lets just decriminalise that too so there are less knife-crimes or burglaries etc etc.. It's a different animal entirely! They are crimes AGAINST people - drug use is harming noone but the individual doing it. The harm that extends to others is a direct result of prohibition. Imagine this... I walk to my local oharmacist and I buy a gram of diamorphine. I go home and inject it at my leisure and go about my day. (I have been a heroin user in the past and the idea you just zonk out after a hit is rubbish, I usually get pretty active. My house is gleaming after a nice hit of heroin on most occasions). Have I harmed anyone? No. As it is, we have a multi billion dollar industry run by criminals who target the poor and the desperate to take their risks for them and therefore spread as much harm to others as possible. Forgot who said it but No drug in history has every been made safer by making it illegal. Are we going to continually bang on about the 'wrongs' of drug use when the majority of us wake up with coffee (stimulant) and end the day with a beer or a couple of glasses of wine (depressant). And to those who think it would cause a 'drug-explosion' I'lll tell you a story. I was once in a city I'd never been to before. I wanted to score some heroin. I scored the heroin in less time than it took me to find and buy a roll of tin foil to smoke it off of. That is how easy it is wherever you are in the country. One posters point about it not working if it's only confined to a certain area (Brighton and HOve) is a good one. It'll becoome a magnet so it needs to be a national policy. Look what happened in Brixton when cannabis was decriminalised for a while - it just became a cannabis hub until the law was changed. It would definitely take a couple of years or so before Britain was able to start taking responsibility to their own drug use but we'd get there in the end. We've just been far too 'nannyed' around drug consumption for too long now that we'd be like kids in a sweet shop to begin with. People will ALWAYS take drugs - changing your consciousness is a normal part of the human condition and has been argues as one of the basic needs of our race. If this is so, what the hell are we doing making it illegal?? More than anything I just don't understand why people think the present system has any merit whatsoever, we need a change because people are dying every day from drugs they don't have to. Pure pharmaceutical heroin is non-toxic to the body with the most severe side effects being constipation and addiction - addiction doesn't matter if you have regular and cheap access to said chemical does it? Look at cigarettes. kidfortuna
  • Score: 0

7:39am Tue 14 Jun 11

kidfortuna says...

Also, look up the statistics of drug use over the past 100 years. Despite all of the money we have thrown at the 'Drug War' nothing has really changed. We're wasting money at an incredible rate when we could be opening more hospitals and treatment centres for those who have decided to quit. Heroin addicts in particular don't generally want to be heroin addicts given enough time on it. It gets boring and repeptitive. Medicalise it and it'll be even more boring. At the same time it's also a drug that can help and make life worth living for some due to it's anti-anxiety properties. If you suffered major trauma as a child or adult and came across a drug that took the pain away to the point of being able to talk about it and slowly begin to work through it, wouldn't you wnt to take it? Or perhaps you could sit and wait for your local mental health team to get their waiting lists down and make time for you - you might be lucky to get a visit once a week from a well meaning nurse but what about the other 6 days? Oh yeah, we'll give you diazepam or anti-psychotics for that, much safer!

And in respose to the poster wanting answers to the prohibitionists...we
ll done. I'd like to hear from a few of them on the issues raised too.
Also, look up the statistics of drug use over the past 100 years. Despite all of the money we have thrown at the 'Drug War' nothing has really changed. We're wasting money at an incredible rate when we could be opening more hospitals and treatment centres for those who have decided to quit. Heroin addicts in particular don't generally want to be heroin addicts given enough time on it. It gets boring and repeptitive. Medicalise it and it'll be even more boring. At the same time it's also a drug that can help and make life worth living for some due to it's anti-anxiety properties. If you suffered major trauma as a child or adult and came across a drug that took the pain away to the point of being able to talk about it and slowly begin to work through it, wouldn't you wnt to take it? Or perhaps you could sit and wait for your local mental health team to get their waiting lists down and make time for you - you might be lucky to get a visit once a week from a well meaning nurse but what about the other 6 days? Oh yeah, we'll give you diazepam or anti-psychotics for that, much safer! And in respose to the poster wanting answers to the prohibitionists...we ll done. I'd like to hear from a few of them on the issues raised too. kidfortuna
  • Score: 0

8:18am Tue 14 Jun 11

rolivan says...

All drug dealers should be sent back to their place of birth(it sure as hell will not be brighton)and refused re-entry into the county by court order.
All drug dealers should be sent back to their place of birth(it sure as hell will not be brighton)and refused re-entry into the county by court order. rolivan
  • Score: 0

8:56am Tue 14 Jun 11

Andy R says...

If all that can be mustered in opposition to what Lucas is saying is some of the boneheaded, functionally illiterate, and in some cases, frankly bizarre tripe on here, she can rest assured that she's on the right lines.
If all that can be mustered in opposition to what Lucas is saying is some of the boneheaded, functionally illiterate, and in some cases, frankly bizarre tripe on here, she can rest assured that she's on the right lines. Andy R
  • Score: 0

8:59am Tue 14 Jun 11

Fight Back says...

Unfortunately humans do not learn from history. Prohibition of alcohol worked sooooooo well in the US ! Banning a "product" just drives it underground, making it difficult to manage / control and allowing criminal gangs to move in.
Unfortunately humans do not learn from history. Prohibition of alcohol worked sooooooo well in the US ! Banning a "product" just drives it underground, making it difficult to manage / control and allowing criminal gangs to move in. Fight Back
  • Score: 0

9:12am Tue 14 Jun 11

brightonparty says...

taman wrote:
How are we losing the "WAR"on drugs?
cant have a war without casualties ....
one a week .... quite acceptable ...
man the f up Lucas
???? Do you even take time to think before opening your mouth????

Your ignorance is astounding and your arrogance breathtaking....
[quote][p][bold]taman[/bold] wrote: How are we losing the "WAR"on drugs? cant have a war without casualties .... one a week .... quite acceptable ... man the f up Lucas[/p][/quote]???? Do you even take time to think before opening your mouth???? Your ignorance is astounding and your arrogance breathtaking.... brightonparty
  • Score: 0

9:17am Tue 14 Jun 11

brightonparty says...

rolivan wrote:
All drug dealers should be sent back to their place of birth(it sure as hell will not be brighton)and refused re-entry into the county by court order.
Great idea, really really great idea. No really, it's a well thought out plan of action that will have 100% success rate.
Why hasn't anyone thought of that before I wonder????

I think you'll find that most of the established drug cartels in Brighton are home grown and local to Brighton. The fact that Albanian gangs have started to take over the trade only serves to highlight the failings of prohibition and the inadequacies of the Police force in trying to combat this trade.
[quote][p][bold]rolivan[/bold] wrote: All drug dealers should be sent back to their place of birth(it sure as hell will not be brighton)and refused re-entry into the county by court order.[/p][/quote]Great idea, really really great idea. No really, it's a well thought out plan of action that will have 100% success rate. Why hasn't anyone thought of that before I wonder???? I think you'll find that most of the established drug cartels in Brighton are home grown and local to Brighton. The fact that Albanian gangs have started to take over the trade only serves to highlight the failings of prohibition and the inadequacies of the Police force in trying to combat this trade. brightonparty
  • Score: 0

9:29am Tue 14 Jun 11

SmileyD says...

reggie kray wrote:
oh my god !!! so weve lost the war on drugs so lets treat the addicts.......
i could go out and find 10- 20 dealers in a night !! and could have for the last 30 years ..... its all to easy and there lies the problem . so lets make it legal that will be a great deterant ..... come on kids its ok its legal ..... idiots !!
So did you actually bother to read the article before before blurting out your ill-informed, knee-jerk reaction? Don't let the facts, or the opinions of the experts, get in the way of your blind prejudice now! I know - maybe YOU are on drugs? Or, more likely, just an idiot.
[quote][p][bold]reggie kray[/bold] wrote: oh my god !!! so weve lost the war on drugs so lets treat the addicts....... i could go out and find 10- 20 dealers in a night !! and could have for the last 30 years ..... its all to easy and there lies the problem . so lets make it legal that will be a great deterant ..... come on kids its ok its legal ..... idiots !![/p][/quote]So did you actually bother to read the article before before blurting out your ill-informed, knee-jerk reaction? Don't let the facts, or the opinions of the experts, get in the way of your blind prejudice now! I know - maybe YOU are on drugs? Or, more likely, just an idiot. SmileyD
  • Score: 0

9:32am Tue 14 Jun 11

brunswick63 says...

reggie kray wrote:
brighton party ..as a farther of two teenage boys im entitled to be worried about drugs .... its out of control its to easily available and there is no deterant . legalising it will mean its ok to go to the dealer its ok to carry it around its ok to take it .... well as a parent im telling them its not .
im sick of toffy nosed waffle FACT!! your not street wise , Fact !! Take your head out of your book and open your eyes.
Drugs ruin lives FACT!! and thats what i tell my boys ........_
Compared to Caroline Lucas's other suggestions, such as making Brighton the UK's premier centre for UFO research, then maybe this latest pronouncement has a modicum of sense to it...
[quote][p][bold]reggie kray[/bold] wrote: brighton party ..as a farther of two teenage boys im entitled to be worried about drugs .... its out of control its to easily available and there is no deterant . legalising it will mean its ok to go to the dealer its ok to carry it around its ok to take it .... well as a parent im telling them its not . im sick of toffy nosed waffle FACT!! your not street wise , Fact !! Take your head out of your book and open your eyes. Drugs ruin lives FACT!! and thats what i tell my boys ........_[/p][/quote]Compared to Caroline Lucas's other suggestions, such as making Brighton the UK's premier centre for UFO research, then maybe this latest pronouncement has a modicum of sense to it... brunswick63
  • Score: 0

10:12am Tue 14 Jun 11

hearmenow says...

Reggie Kray, what a moron, using the name of a criminal on here and then getting all anti human. He obviously idolises crime and sees people that are the victims of crime as the criminals. Perhaps if the crux of the story, which is that after 30 years of waging a war on drugs Brighton is the drugs seath capital of the country, hasn't got through to him, he'll ALWAYS want to carry on as such and ALWAYS be worried about his teenage sons because it appears he doesn't actually want anything to change.
Reggie Kray, what a moron, using the name of a criminal on here and then getting all anti human. He obviously idolises crime and sees people that are the victims of crime as the criminals. Perhaps if the crux of the story, which is that after 30 years of waging a war on drugs Brighton is the drugs seath capital of the country, hasn't got through to him, he'll ALWAYS want to carry on as such and ALWAYS be worried about his teenage sons because it appears he doesn't actually want anything to change. hearmenow
  • Score: 0

10:12am Tue 14 Jun 11

rolivan says...

brightonparty wrote:
rolivan wrote:
All drug dealers should be sent back to their place of birth(it sure as hell will not be brighton)and refused re-entry into the county by court order.
Great idea, really really great idea. No really, it's a well thought out plan of action that will have 100% success rate.
Why hasn't anyone thought of that before I wonder????

I think you'll find that most of the established drug cartels in Brighton are home grown and local to Brighton. The fact that Albanian gangs have started to take over the trade only serves to highlight the failings of prohibition and the inadequacies of the Police force in trying to combat this trade.
So where do the drugs come from? Not grown or manufactured in Brighton and Hove so Dealers must be bringing it in and not just Albanians.
[quote][p][bold]brightonparty[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]rolivan[/bold] wrote: All drug dealers should be sent back to their place of birth(it sure as hell will not be brighton)and refused re-entry into the county by court order.[/p][/quote]Great idea, really really great idea. No really, it's a well thought out plan of action that will have 100% success rate. Why hasn't anyone thought of that before I wonder???? I think you'll find that most of the established drug cartels in Brighton are home grown and local to Brighton. The fact that Albanian gangs have started to take over the trade only serves to highlight the failings of prohibition and the inadequacies of the Police force in trying to combat this trade.[/p][/quote]So where do the drugs come from? Not grown or manufactured in Brighton and Hove so Dealers must be bringing it in and not just Albanians. rolivan
  • Score: 0

10:18am Tue 14 Jun 11

TheInsider says...

Prohibition of alcohol in the US drove it underground, relaxing drinking laws in the UK has lead to more than 1 million people for the first time being admitted to A&E with alcohol injuries and illnesses in 2010.
Also my partner's 21 year old nephew is in a psychiatric unit with drug induced psychosis after having a good time at uni with drugs freely available every day.
His view on the availability of drugs is now very different when he first started taking them.
Prohibition of alcohol in the US drove it underground, relaxing drinking laws in the UK has lead to more than 1 million people for the first time being admitted to A&E with alcohol injuries and illnesses in 2010. Also my partner's 21 year old nephew is in a psychiatric unit with drug induced psychosis after having a good time at uni with drugs freely available every day. His view on the availability of drugs is now very different when he first started taking them. TheInsider
  • Score: 0

10:19am Tue 14 Jun 11

rolivan says...

So where do the drugs come from? Not grown or manufactured in Brighton and Hove so Dealers must be bringing it in and not just Albanians.
So where do the drugs come from? Not grown or manufactured in Brighton and Hove so Dealers must be bringing it in and not just Albanians. rolivan
  • Score: 0

10:25am Tue 14 Jun 11

Seagull83 says...

The time has come for a forward thinking drugs policy that manages use (through controlling the quality of substances) but does not ban it. Prohibition has been a massive failure and wastes billions of pounds every year, drugs culture is part of our society and will always be, despite what the law says so. The naivity of some thinking that banning drugs will keep their children from them is astounding. It doesn't work.
The time has come for a forward thinking drugs policy that manages use (through controlling the quality of substances) but does not ban it. Prohibition has been a massive failure and wastes billions of pounds every year, drugs culture is part of our society and will always be, despite what the law says so. The naivity of some thinking that banning drugs will keep their children from them is astounding. It doesn't work. Seagull83
  • Score: 0

10:40am Tue 14 Jun 11

Zeta Function says...

'personal drug use to be decriminalised'?

Avoiding the 'war against' mentality is a good start,
as it should help to prevent the ghettorisation of illegal drug use which disempowers and condemns users.

But the big question is will it reduce the mortality rates? Will it be properly funded? And will consumers of drugs feel sufficiently empowered to say no, I don't need it.
'personal drug use to be decriminalised'? Avoiding the 'war against' mentality is a good start, as it should help to prevent the ghettorisation of illegal drug use which disempowers and condemns users. But the big question is will it reduce the mortality rates? Will it be properly funded? And will consumers of drugs feel sufficiently empowered to say no, I don't need it. Zeta Function
  • Score: 0

10:46am Tue 14 Jun 11

Morpheus says...

It makes no sense to say that the manufacture and supply of drugs is illegal, but personal use is OK. If the suppy is illegal then how can the purchase be legal? The views are not consistent and that is why drug policies will always fail. Add to this that the biggest drug - alcohol - is freely available and encouraged and the whole situation is still a big mess.
It makes no sense to say that the manufacture and supply of drugs is illegal, but personal use is OK. If the suppy is illegal then how can the purchase be legal? The views are not consistent and that is why drug policies will always fail. Add to this that the biggest drug - alcohol - is freely available and encouraged and the whole situation is still a big mess. Morpheus
  • Score: 0

11:54am Tue 14 Jun 11

taman says...

brightonparty wrote:
taman wrote: How are we losing the "WAR"on drugs? cant have a war without casualties .... one a week .... quite acceptable ... man the f up Lucas
???? Do you even take time to think before opening your mouth???? Your ignorance is astounding and your arrogance breathtaking....
???? Do you even take time to think before opening your mouth????

Your ignorance is astounding and your arrogance breathtaking....”

Why thank you, nice to be termed as astounding and breathtaking made my day
[quote][p][bold]brightonparty[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]taman[/bold] wrote: How are we losing the "WAR"on drugs? cant have a war without casualties .... one a week .... quite acceptable ... man the f up Lucas[/p][/quote]???? Do you even take time to think before opening your mouth???? Your ignorance is astounding and your arrogance breathtaking....[/p][/quote]???? Do you even take time to think before opening your mouth???? Your ignorance is astounding and your arrogance breathtaking....” Why thank you, nice to be termed as astounding and breathtaking made my day taman
  • Score: 0

11:57am Tue 14 Jun 11

NastyMrToms says...

I see nothing wrong with a spliff , it never did me any harm and i've regularly attended pride events in Brighton where the majority of us had a craft joint before enjoying ourselves ... perhaps more attention should be focused on alcohol which blights towns up & down the country with rowdiness? but then again , the brewers would all be up in arms then wouldn't they.
I see nothing wrong with a spliff , it never did me any harm and i've regularly attended pride events in Brighton where the majority of us had a craft joint before enjoying ourselves ... perhaps more attention should be focused on alcohol which blights towns up & down the country with rowdiness? but then again , the brewers would all be up in arms then wouldn't they. NastyMrToms
  • Score: 0

12:23pm Tue 14 Jun 11

Beach Combover says...

NastyMrToms wrote:
I see nothing wrong with a spliff , it never did me any harm and i've regularly attended pride events in Brighton where the majority of us had a craft joint before enjoying ourselves ... perhaps more attention should be focused on alcohol which blights towns up & down the country with rowdiness? but then again , the brewers would all be up in arms then wouldn't they.
Not everyone HAS to take drugs to be happy you know!!
[quote][p][bold]NastyMrToms[/bold] wrote: I see nothing wrong with a spliff , it never did me any harm and i've regularly attended pride events in Brighton where the majority of us had a craft joint before enjoying ourselves ... perhaps more attention should be focused on alcohol which blights towns up & down the country with rowdiness? but then again , the brewers would all be up in arms then wouldn't they.[/p][/quote]Not everyone HAS to take drugs to be happy you know!! Beach Combover
  • Score: 0

12:27pm Tue 14 Jun 11

hearmenow says...

RapMC wrote:
What a stupid, stupid, stupid man this Caroline Lucas is. What planet is he living on to think the answer is to legalise drugs?

We have a knife problem, lets legalise illegal weapons.

We have a child **** problem, lets lower the age of consent to 6.

I am certain the idiots who voted this filthy Marxist party in will be laughing when their house gets burgled by drug-induced maniacs.

Ahhhh bless 'em!
Caroline Lucas is a woman.
[quote][p][bold]RapMC[/bold] wrote: What a stupid, stupid, stupid man this Caroline Lucas is. What planet is he living on to think the answer is to legalise drugs? We have a knife problem, lets legalise illegal weapons. We have a child **** problem, lets lower the age of consent to 6. I am certain the idiots who voted this filthy Marxist party in will be laughing when their house gets burgled by drug-induced maniacs. Ahhhh bless 'em![/p][/quote]Caroline Lucas is a woman. hearmenow
  • Score: 0

12:37pm Tue 14 Jun 11

haris_pilton says...

" don't tell me not to smoke a spliff while you sit there with a double whiskey in your hand".

also, anyone can watch a 2 part programme on the bbc iplayer regarding cannabis growth etc.
Rolivan, I suggest you watch this then you might change your mind about where drugs (certain ones) come from.
You can never have a reasoned argument when emotion is involved, so I suggest everyone make themselves aware of the facts, then make your comments, and I am not just referring to one television documentary.
" don't tell me not to smoke a spliff while you sit there with a double whiskey in your hand". also, anyone can watch a 2 part programme on the bbc iplayer regarding cannabis growth etc. Rolivan, I suggest you watch this then you might change your mind about where drugs (certain ones) come from. You can never have a reasoned argument when emotion is involved, so I suggest everyone make themselves aware of the facts, then make your comments, and I am not just referring to one television documentary. haris_pilton
  • Score: 0

12:41pm Tue 14 Jun 11

Lets agree to agree says...

NastyMrToms wrote:
I see nothing wrong with a spliff , it never did me any harm and i've regularly attended pride events in Brighton where the majority of us had a craft joint before enjoying ourselves ... perhaps more attention should be focused on alcohol which blights towns up & down the country with rowdiness? but then again , the brewers would all be up in arms then wouldn't they.
Heard you like a drink as well Pride Tom ? LOL
[quote][p][bold]NastyMrToms[/bold] wrote: I see nothing wrong with a spliff , it never did me any harm and i've regularly attended pride events in Brighton where the majority of us had a craft joint before enjoying ourselves ... perhaps more attention should be focused on alcohol which blights towns up & down the country with rowdiness? but then again , the brewers would all be up in arms then wouldn't they.[/p][/quote]Heard you like a drink as well Pride Tom ? LOL Lets agree to agree
  • Score: 0

1:16pm Tue 14 Jun 11

notaconspiracy says...

FYI : Rule of thumb on these type of forums is: if you insult another poster, you've lost the argument.
FYI : Rule of thumb on these type of forums is: if you insult another poster, you've lost the argument. notaconspiracy
  • Score: 0

3:11pm Tue 14 Jun 11

Greengoddess says...

I'm shocked at some of the moronic statements I've seen on here in support of continuing the same failed policies of prohibition. I'm very glad none of you are in positions of power. Obviously the War (on some people who use some) Drugs has FAILED. Also - NEWSFLASH - not all people who use "drugs" are "drug addicts". Some are responsible individuals who don't like the buzz from alcohol and prefer other highs. What is wrong with that and what business is it of anyone's? If you care about this issue and want to make sure that policy is guided by experts in medicine and the social sciences, then please sign the petition to Keep Drugs on the Advisory Council which will be raised in the House of Lords tomorrow when the Police Reform and Social Responsibiilty Bill is debated. http://www.gopetitio
n.com/petitions/keep
-experts-on-the-drug
s-advisory-council.h
tml The Home Office has openly stated it plans to ignore any report or recommendation that calls for decriminalization, even if it is evidence based. Then they expect the public to believe that they are committed to science and research. Yes, except as it applies to this issue! Get involved all you non-morons! I know Brighton is full of smart people!
I'm shocked at some of the moronic statements I've seen on here in support of continuing the same failed policies of prohibition. I'm very glad none of you are in positions of power. Obviously the War (on some people who use some) Drugs has FAILED. Also - NEWSFLASH - not all people who use "drugs" are "drug addicts". Some are responsible individuals who don't like the buzz from alcohol and prefer other highs. What is wrong with that and what business is it of anyone's? If you care about this issue and want to make sure that policy is guided by experts in medicine and the social sciences, then please sign the petition to Keep Drugs on the Advisory Council which will be raised in the House of Lords tomorrow when the Police Reform and Social Responsibiilty Bill is debated. http://www.gopetitio n.com/petitions/keep -experts-on-the-drug s-advisory-council.h tml The Home Office has openly stated it plans to ignore any report or recommendation that calls for decriminalization, even if it is evidence based. Then they expect the public to believe that they are committed to science and research. Yes, except as it applies to this issue! Get involved all you non-morons! I know Brighton is full of smart people! Greengoddess
  • Score: 0

3:44pm Tue 14 Jun 11

PorkBoat says...

I havent read all 56 comments so far, so this may have already been said. Whether its a good idea or not, whether it'll work or not, and whether you're for or against, drugs will never be legalised on the same level as alcohol or tobacco. Why? Just think of the billions and billions that is generated by drugs and the "war on drugs". Top level dealers (ie the big cheeses in the heroin ecstasy and cocaine trade) have to put their cash somewhere. They dont put it under the mattress. They put it in offshore bank accounts, and launder it through legitimate businesses. Lower down the chain, but still generating large amounts of cash, many clubs in Brighton are conduits for drug money, I wonder? And thats just in one medium sized city in one small country. Ever wondered why their are so many takeaways these days? Surely they cant all be making money selling kebabs to a finite number of punters. An ideal cash business for laundering dirty money. Look at the money thats spent on law enforcement and imprisonment in - especially - the USA. Building prisons, buying weapons and equipment. Someones making huge profits there. Why do you think certain nations and politicians were so keen to "liberate" Kosovo from the Serbs, and why were the Serbs so keen to keep hold of it? Because its the main route for trafficking heroin into Europe. Do you really think that we have forces in Afghanistan to help the people there? No chance! Among other reasons (ie, a bloody great big oil and gas pipeline running through the country from Kazakhstan to Pakistan and on to the sea), its the worlds number 1 producer of heroin, and the Taliban were on the verge of wiping it out. Couldnt let them do that, could we? Too much money at stake. If you are puzzled by the actions of politicians, and nation states, and if what they do contradicts common sense, FOLLOW THE MONEY! Then you'll get the answer.
I havent read all 56 comments so far, so this may have already been said. Whether its a good idea or not, whether it'll work or not, and whether you're for or against, drugs will never be legalised on the same level as alcohol or tobacco. Why? Just think of the billions and billions that is generated by drugs and the "war on drugs". Top level dealers (ie the big cheeses in the heroin ecstasy and cocaine trade) have to put their cash somewhere. They dont put it under the mattress. They put it in offshore bank accounts, and launder it through legitimate businesses. Lower down the chain, but still generating large amounts of cash, many clubs in Brighton are conduits for drug money, I wonder? And thats just in one medium sized city in one small country. Ever wondered why their are so many takeaways these days? Surely they cant all be making money selling kebabs to a finite number of punters. An ideal cash business for laundering dirty money. Look at the money thats spent on law enforcement and imprisonment in - especially - the USA. Building prisons, buying weapons and equipment. Someones making huge profits there. Why do you think certain nations and politicians were so keen to "liberate" Kosovo from the Serbs, and why were the Serbs so keen to keep hold of it? Because its the main route for trafficking heroin into Europe. Do you really think that we have forces in Afghanistan to help the people there? No chance! Among other reasons (ie, a bloody great big oil and gas pipeline running through the country from Kazakhstan to Pakistan and on to the sea), its the worlds number 1 producer of heroin, and the Taliban were on the verge of wiping it out. Couldnt let them do that, could we? Too much money at stake. If you are puzzled by the actions of politicians, and nation states, and if what they do contradicts common sense, FOLLOW THE MONEY! Then you'll get the answer. PorkBoat
  • Score: 0

3:51pm Tue 14 Jun 11

sdhgfhfuyt says...

kidfortuna wrote:
When people use the argument that knife crime is illegal so lets just decriminalise that too so there are less knife-crimes or burglaries etc etc.. It's a different animal entirely! They are crimes AGAINST people - drug use is harming noone but the individual doing it. The harm that extends to others is a direct result of prohibition. Imagine this...

I walk to my local oharmacist and I buy a gram of diamorphine. I go home and inject it at my leisure and go about my day. (I have been a heroin user in the past and the idea you just zonk out after a hit is rubbish, I usually get pretty active. My house is gleaming after a nice hit of heroin on most occasions). Have I harmed anyone? No.

As it is, we have a multi billion dollar industry run by criminals who target the poor and the desperate to take their risks for them and therefore spread as much harm to others as possible. Forgot who said it but No drug in history has every been made safer by making it illegal. Are we going to continually bang on about the 'wrongs' of drug use when the majority of us wake up with coffee (stimulant) and end the day with a beer or a couple of glasses of wine (depressant).

And to those who think it would cause a 'drug-explosion' I'lll tell you a story. I was once in a city I'd never been to before. I wanted to score some heroin. I scored the heroin in less time than it took me to find and buy a roll of tin foil to smoke it off of. That is how easy it is wherever you are in the country.

One posters point about it not working if it's only confined to a certain area (Brighton and HOve) is a good one. It'll becoome a magnet so it needs to be a national policy. Look what happened in Brixton when cannabis was decriminalised for a while - it just became a cannabis hub until the law was changed.

It would definitely take a couple of years or so before Britain was able to start taking responsibility to their own drug use but we'd get there in the end. We've just been far too 'nannyed' around drug consumption for too long now that we'd be like kids in a sweet shop to begin with.

People will ALWAYS take drugs - changing your consciousness is a normal part of the human condition and has been argues as one of the basic needs of our race. If this is so, what the hell are we doing making it illegal??

More than anything I just don't understand why people think the present system has any merit whatsoever, we need a change because people are dying every day from drugs they don't have to. Pure pharmaceutical heroin is non-toxic to the body with the most severe side effects being constipation and addiction - addiction doesn't matter if you have regular and cheap access to said chemical does it? Look at cigarettes.
Based on your description of your cleaning abilities, for some reason i had a vision of a bloke wearing reebok classics speed-dusting an empty front room to the Benny Hill theme tune.

- i reckon we should make clean heroin available, and in return maybe all imprisoned/highly dependent addicts must promise to start a payment plan for all those car stereos they have stolen / 10p's they have borrowed?

..maybe by helping manually build newer and more modern railway lines (like POW's had to do in Japan, but with better conditions and a big bag of skag to keep 'em happy)
[quote][p][bold]kidfortuna[/bold] wrote: When people use the argument that knife crime is illegal so lets just decriminalise that too so there are less knife-crimes or burglaries etc etc.. It's a different animal entirely! They are crimes AGAINST people - drug use is harming noone but the individual doing it. The harm that extends to others is a direct result of prohibition. Imagine this... I walk to my local oharmacist and I buy a gram of diamorphine. I go home and inject it at my leisure and go about my day. (I have been a heroin user in the past and the idea you just zonk out after a hit is rubbish, I usually get pretty active. My house is gleaming after a nice hit of heroin on most occasions). Have I harmed anyone? No. As it is, we have a multi billion dollar industry run by criminals who target the poor and the desperate to take their risks for them and therefore spread as much harm to others as possible. Forgot who said it but No drug in history has every been made safer by making it illegal. Are we going to continually bang on about the 'wrongs' of drug use when the majority of us wake up with coffee (stimulant) and end the day with a beer or a couple of glasses of wine (depressant). And to those who think it would cause a 'drug-explosion' I'lll tell you a story. I was once in a city I'd never been to before. I wanted to score some heroin. I scored the heroin in less time than it took me to find and buy a roll of tin foil to smoke it off of. That is how easy it is wherever you are in the country. One posters point about it not working if it's only confined to a certain area (Brighton and HOve) is a good one. It'll becoome a magnet so it needs to be a national policy. Look what happened in Brixton when cannabis was decriminalised for a while - it just became a cannabis hub until the law was changed. It would definitely take a couple of years or so before Britain was able to start taking responsibility to their own drug use but we'd get there in the end. We've just been far too 'nannyed' around drug consumption for too long now that we'd be like kids in a sweet shop to begin with. People will ALWAYS take drugs - changing your consciousness is a normal part of the human condition and has been argues as one of the basic needs of our race. If this is so, what the hell are we doing making it illegal?? More than anything I just don't understand why people think the present system has any merit whatsoever, we need a change because people are dying every day from drugs they don't have to. Pure pharmaceutical heroin is non-toxic to the body with the most severe side effects being constipation and addiction - addiction doesn't matter if you have regular and cheap access to said chemical does it? Look at cigarettes.[/p][/quote]Based on your description of your cleaning abilities, for some reason i had a vision of a bloke wearing reebok classics speed-dusting an empty front room to the Benny Hill theme tune. - i reckon we should make clean heroin available, and in return maybe all imprisoned/highly dependent addicts must promise to start a payment plan for all those car stereos they have stolen / 10p's they have borrowed? ..maybe by helping manually build newer and more modern railway lines (like POW's had to do in Japan, but with better conditions and a big bag of skag to keep 'em happy) sdhgfhfuyt
  • Score: 0

4:07pm Tue 14 Jun 11

brunswick63 says...

hearmenow wrote:
RapMC wrote:
What a stupid, stupid, stupid man this Caroline Lucas is. What planet is he living on to think the answer is to legalise drugs?

We have a knife problem, lets legalise illegal weapons.

We have a child **** problem, lets lower the age of consent to 6.

I am certain the idiots who voted this filthy Marxist party in will be laughing when their house gets burgled by drug-induced maniacs.

Ahhhh bless 'em!
Caroline Lucas is a woman.
Really? Could have fooled me.

With that crop haircut, I have always thought that she looks like a flavourful Bull-Dyke
[quote][p][bold]hearmenow[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]RapMC[/bold] wrote: What a stupid, stupid, stupid man this Caroline Lucas is. What planet is he living on to think the answer is to legalise drugs? We have a knife problem, lets legalise illegal weapons. We have a child **** problem, lets lower the age of consent to 6. I am certain the idiots who voted this filthy Marxist party in will be laughing when their house gets burgled by drug-induced maniacs. Ahhhh bless 'em![/p][/quote]Caroline Lucas is a woman.[/p][/quote]Really? Could have fooled me. With that crop haircut, I have always thought that she looks like a flavourful Bull-Dyke brunswick63
  • Score: 0

4:15pm Tue 14 Jun 11

Baldseagull says...

Legalise the lot, sell good quality drugs from Pharmacies, to anyone over 21.
The smack addicted should get access to free and clean substances and preferably a safe place to take it.
Legalise the lot, sell good quality drugs from Pharmacies, to anyone over 21. The smack addicted should get access to free and clean substances and preferably a safe place to take it. Baldseagull
  • Score: 0

4:18pm Tue 14 Jun 11

Baldseagull says...

notaconspiracy wrote:
FYI : Rule of thumb on these type of forums is: if you insult another poster, you've lost the argument.
Shut up you halfwit!
[quote][p][bold]notaconspiracy[/bold] wrote: FYI : Rule of thumb on these type of forums is: if you insult another poster, you've lost the argument.[/p][/quote]Shut up you halfwit! Baldseagull
  • Score: 0

4:50pm Tue 14 Jun 11

cojones says...

Baldseagull wrote:
notaconspiracy wrote:
FYI : Rule of thumb on these type of forums is: if you insult another poster, you've lost the argument.
Shut up you halfwit!
Up yours! You are a couple of dope heads. Caroline, pass the spliff and don't bogart the joint ho!
[quote][p][bold]Baldseagull[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]notaconspiracy[/bold] wrote: FYI : Rule of thumb on these type of forums is: if you insult another poster, you've lost the argument.[/p][/quote]Shut up you halfwit![/p][/quote]Up yours! You are a couple of dope heads. Caroline, pass the spliff and don't bogart the joint ho! cojones
  • Score: 0

5:17pm Tue 14 Jun 11

Variable says...

While criminals have control of the supply of drugs, then criminals control society.
The War on Drugs is an abject failure. Making them illegal does not put people off buying them.
Leaving the supply side to criminals, interested only in maximising their profits, means they set the agenda on what gets sold on the streets. So a dealer sells some dodgy gear that's been cut with god-knows-what, and a handful of junkies die. Why should he care?
Saying "People shouldn't take drugs, it's as simple as that," ignores the reality that for many people, drug taking is cheap fun. It's the only way of lifting themselves out of their depressing realities - for a while.
If you really feel menaced by what decriminalising drugs would do, just look at Portugal's story over the past 10 years, when they did just that.
While criminals have control of the supply of drugs, then criminals control society. The War on Drugs is an abject failure. Making them illegal does not put people off buying them. Leaving the supply side to criminals, interested only in maximising their profits, means they set the agenda on what gets sold on the streets. So a dealer sells some dodgy gear that's been cut with god-knows-what, and a handful of junkies die. Why should he care? Saying "People shouldn't take drugs, it's as simple as that," ignores the reality that for many people, drug taking is cheap fun. It's the only way of lifting themselves out of their depressing realities - for a while. If you really feel menaced by what decriminalising drugs would do, just look at Portugal's story over the past 10 years, when they did just that. Variable
  • Score: 0

5:18pm Tue 14 Jun 11

Variable says...

While criminals have control of the supply of drugs, then criminals control society.
The War on Drugs is an abject failure. Making them illegal does not put people off buying them.
Leaving the supply side to criminals, interested only in maximising their profits, means they set the agenda on what gets sold on the streets. So a dealer sells some dodgy gear that's been cut with god-knows-what, and a handful of junkies die. Why should he care?
Saying "People shouldn't take drugs, it's as simple as that," ignores the reality that for many people, drug taking is cheap fun. It's the only way of lifting themselves out of their depressing realities - for a while.
If you really feel menaced by what decriminalising drugs would do, just look at Portugal's story over the past 10 years, when they did just that.
While criminals have control of the supply of drugs, then criminals control society. The War on Drugs is an abject failure. Making them illegal does not put people off buying them. Leaving the supply side to criminals, interested only in maximising their profits, means they set the agenda on what gets sold on the streets. So a dealer sells some dodgy gear that's been cut with god-knows-what, and a handful of junkies die. Why should he care? Saying "People shouldn't take drugs, it's as simple as that," ignores the reality that for many people, drug taking is cheap fun. It's the only way of lifting themselves out of their depressing realities - for a while. If you really feel menaced by what decriminalising drugs would do, just look at Portugal's story over the past 10 years, when they did just that. Variable
  • Score: 0

5:51pm Tue 14 Jun 11

rolivan says...

haris_pilton wrote:
" don't tell me not to smoke a spliff while you sit there with a double whiskey in your hand".

also, anyone can watch a 2 part programme on the bbc iplayer regarding cannabis growth etc.
Rolivan, I suggest you watch this then you might change your mind about where drugs (certain ones) come from.
You can never have a reasoned argument when emotion is involved, so I suggest everyone make themselves aware of the facts, then make your comments, and I am not just referring to one television documentary.
I thought the article was about drugs that are killing an average of one person a week I do not think Marijuana is included.I was making my point about drugs that are leading to the deaths of people.
[quote][p][bold]haris_pilton[/bold] wrote: " don't tell me not to smoke a spliff while you sit there with a double whiskey in your hand". also, anyone can watch a 2 part programme on the bbc iplayer regarding cannabis growth etc. Rolivan, I suggest you watch this then you might change your mind about where drugs (certain ones) come from. You can never have a reasoned argument when emotion is involved, so I suggest everyone make themselves aware of the facts, then make your comments, and I am not just referring to one television documentary.[/p][/quote]I thought the article was about drugs that are killing an average of one person a week I do not think Marijuana is included.I was making my point about drugs that are leading to the deaths of people. rolivan
  • Score: 0

8:09pm Tue 14 Jun 11

dregstudios says...

The War on Drugs failed Billions of dollars ago! This money could have been used for outreach programs to clean up the bad end of drug abuse by providing free HIV testing, free rehab, and clean needles. Harmless drugs like marijuana could be legalized to help boost our damaged economy. Cannabis can provide hemp for countless natural recourses and the tax revenue from sales alone would pull every state in our country out of the red! Vote Teapot, PASS IT, and legalize it. Voice you opinion with the movement and check out my pro-cannabis art at http://dregstudiosar
t.blogspot.com/2011/
01/vote-teapot-2011.
html
The War on Drugs failed Billions of dollars ago! This money could have been used for outreach programs to clean up the bad end of drug abuse by providing free HIV testing, free rehab, and clean needles. Harmless drugs like marijuana could be legalized to help boost our damaged economy. Cannabis can provide hemp for countless natural recourses and the tax revenue from sales alone would pull every state in our country out of the red! Vote Teapot, PASS IT, and legalize it. Voice you opinion with the movement and check out my pro-cannabis art at http://dregstudiosar t.blogspot.com/2011/ 01/vote-teapot-2011. html dregstudios
  • Score: 0

8:20pm Tue 14 Jun 11

reggie kray says...

really sad !! oh well i look forward to the day i go into the pub and watch people snorting coke off the tables ..... all perfectly legal .... two packets of crisps and a gram of coke please !!!! we didnt loose the war on drugs ...we didnt really fight it !!
really sad !! oh well i look forward to the day i go into the pub and watch people snorting coke off the tables ..... all perfectly legal .... two packets of crisps and a gram of coke please !!!! we didnt loose the war on drugs ...we didnt really fight it !! reggie kray
  • Score: 0

8:40pm Tue 14 Jun 11

brightonparty says...

reggie kray wrote:
really sad !! oh well i look forward to the day i go into the pub and watch people snorting coke off the tables ..... all perfectly legal .... two packets of crisps and a gram of coke please !!!! we didnt loose the war on drugs ...we didnt really fight it !!
'Reg' or whatever your name is, you really are not making any sense at all. None whatsoever. Nish, nil, zero, zilch...I think the technical term is 'twaddle'

It's probably best you find another place to comment as your not bringing anything to the table here.

In fact your making the pro-prohibition camp look really really stupid. You're not stupid are you Reg. Are you?
[quote][p][bold]reggie kray[/bold] wrote: really sad !! oh well i look forward to the day i go into the pub and watch people snorting coke off the tables ..... all perfectly legal .... two packets of crisps and a gram of coke please !!!! we didnt loose the war on drugs ...we didnt really fight it !![/p][/quote]'Reg' or whatever your name is, you really are not making any sense at all. None whatsoever. Nish, nil, zero, zilch...I think the technical term is 'twaddle' It's probably best you find another place to comment as your not bringing anything to the table here. In fact your making the pro-prohibition camp look really really stupid. You're not stupid are you Reg. Are you? brightonparty
  • Score: 0

9:03pm Tue 14 Jun 11

reggie kray says...

no im no scientist partyman !! just an everyday hardworking fella .... ive watched drugs destroy lives over the years ...ive lost friends because they wernt strong enough to to cope with the addiction.
im just sad for the next generation of kids ....
il leave it there ....................
.......
no im no scientist partyman !! just an everyday hardworking fella .... ive watched drugs destroy lives over the years ...ive lost friends because they wernt strong enough to to cope with the addiction. im just sad for the next generation of kids .... il leave it there .................... ....... reggie kray
  • Score: 0

9:51pm Tue 14 Jun 11

Ballroom Blitz says...

When a sizeable proportion of the population, casually and routinely break the law on a regular basis, there has to be something either wrong with the law, or the enforcement of said law.
Would people smoke dope if they knew that they would be fined £5000 for each offence? Would people deal drugs if they knew that they would go to prison for life?
My point is that there is no real will to enforce the law properly, or to create laws that would genuinely make people consider whether it was worth the risk.
So therefore one has to ask if this is the case, what the hell is the point in criminalising a sizeable proportion of the population with archaic laws that no-one respects, or is frightened of.
I am no 'legalise drugs' fan, but I'm beginning to wonder about a drugs policy that manifestly has been a disaster for the last 40 years or more.
When a sizeable proportion of the population, casually and routinely break the law on a regular basis, there has to be something either wrong with the law, or the enforcement of said law. Would people smoke dope if they knew that they would be fined £5000 for each offence? Would people deal drugs if they knew that they would go to prison for life? My point is that there is no real will to enforce the law properly, or to create laws that would genuinely make people consider whether it was worth the risk. So therefore one has to ask if this is the case, what the hell is the point in criminalising a sizeable proportion of the population with archaic laws that no-one respects, or is frightened of. I am no 'legalise drugs' fan, but I'm beginning to wonder about a drugs policy that manifestly has been a disaster for the last 40 years or more. Ballroom Blitz
  • Score: 0

9:51pm Tue 14 Jun 11

Ballroom Blitz says...

When a sizeable proportion of the population, casually and routinely break the law on a regular basis, there has to be something either wrong with the law, or the enforcement of said law.
Would people smoke dope if they knew that they would be fined £5000 for each offence? Would people deal drugs if they knew that they would go to prison for life?
My point is that there is no real will to enforce the law properly, or to create laws that would genuinely make people consider whether it was worth the risk.
So therefore one has to ask if this is the case, what the hell is the point in criminalising a sizeable proportion of the population with archaic laws that no-one respects, or is frightened of.
I am no 'legalise drugs' fan, but I'm beginning to wonder about a drugs policy that manifestly has been a disaster for the last 40 years or more.
When a sizeable proportion of the population, casually and routinely break the law on a regular basis, there has to be something either wrong with the law, or the enforcement of said law. Would people smoke dope if they knew that they would be fined £5000 for each offence? Would people deal drugs if they knew that they would go to prison for life? My point is that there is no real will to enforce the law properly, or to create laws that would genuinely make people consider whether it was worth the risk. So therefore one has to ask if this is the case, what the hell is the point in criminalising a sizeable proportion of the population with archaic laws that no-one respects, or is frightened of. I am no 'legalise drugs' fan, but I'm beginning to wonder about a drugs policy that manifestly has been a disaster for the last 40 years or more. Ballroom Blitz
  • Score: 0

10:35pm Tue 14 Jun 11

AndreMassena says...

I am pretty much against drugs use but still agree that de-criminalising some of it is best for everyone.
It is a waste of Police time and money, it puts prices up and so more money goes to the criminals who push it, making it much more of an attractive trade, as it is illegal quality is not monitored, leading to more sickness and deaths. If it was all above board all these problems would cease.
If you could buy a can of branded beer over the counter for £1.20 would you want to meet some guy down a back alley and give him £5 for an unmarked can of lager? No, I don't think so.
I am pretty much against drugs use but still agree that de-criminalising some of it is best for everyone. It is a waste of Police time and money, it puts prices up and so more money goes to the criminals who push it, making it much more of an attractive trade, as it is illegal quality is not monitored, leading to more sickness and deaths. If it was all above board all these problems would cease. If you could buy a can of branded beer over the counter for £1.20 would you want to meet some guy down a back alley and give him £5 for an unmarked can of lager? No, I don't think so. AndreMassena
  • Score: 0

11:06pm Tue 14 Jun 11

NickBrt says...

I keep reading about knife crime spiralling out of control in the argus. is this crazy MP going to say it's Ok to wander round threatenind people with knives because the authorities cannot stop it? I wonder what substances she uses before opening her mouth. Still, electing her was a novelty which I hope will be speedily reversed as soon as there's the next election.
I keep reading about knife crime spiralling out of control in the argus. is this crazy MP going to say it's Ok to wander round threatenind people with knives because the authorities cannot stop it? I wonder what substances she uses before opening her mouth. Still, electing her was a novelty which I hope will be speedily reversed as soon as there's the next election. NickBrt
  • Score: 0

11:22pm Tue 14 Jun 11

brightonparty says...

NickBrt wrote:
I keep reading about knife crime spiralling out of control in the argus. is this crazy MP going to say it's Ok to wander round threatenind people with knives because the authorities cannot stop it? I wonder what substances she uses before opening her mouth. Still, electing her was a novelty which I hope will be speedily reversed as soon as there's the next election.
'reading the Argus'
that's where you're going wrong then. Knives don't kill people, people kill people...

With all due respect, it's a redundant and retarded argument i'm afraid.

if the police weren't so tied up dealing with the results of the failed war on drugs they might have enough time to protect the public from knife crime...
[quote][p][bold]NickBrt[/bold] wrote: I keep reading about knife crime spiralling out of control in the argus. is this crazy MP going to say it's Ok to wander round threatenind people with knives because the authorities cannot stop it? I wonder what substances she uses before opening her mouth. Still, electing her was a novelty which I hope will be speedily reversed as soon as there's the next election.[/p][/quote]'reading the Argus' that's where you're going wrong then. Knives don't kill people, people kill people... With all due respect, it's a redundant and retarded argument i'm afraid. if the police weren't so tied up dealing with the results of the failed war on drugs they might have enough time to protect the public from knife crime... brightonparty
  • Score: 0

6:30am Wed 15 Jun 11

John Steed says...

the answer to part of the problem is very simple, provide heroin to registered addicts on the NHS. remove it from the dealers, this will benefit the user and society by removing the need for crime to pay for the habit.
the dealers will however continue to serve up crack/cocaine, probaly christal meth, and of course green
the next part of the problem just requires plenty of phsyciatric practioners and rehab places for the treatment of paranoia and delusion
its amazing how many think green and coke are quite safe and simply a harmless recreational drug.
the answer to part of the problem is very simple, provide heroin to registered addicts on the NHS. remove it from the dealers, this will benefit the user and society by removing the need for crime to pay for the habit. the dealers will however continue to serve up crack/cocaine, probaly christal meth, and of course green the next part of the problem just requires plenty of phsyciatric practioners and rehab places for the treatment of paranoia and delusion its amazing how many think green and coke are quite safe and simply a harmless recreational drug. John Steed
  • Score: 0

12:06pm Wed 15 Jun 11

Richardcr56 says...

The potential debate on drug, decriminalisation, treatment of those who grow, supply, and use various substances will always polarise opinion.

I have spent years, as an addictions therapist, treating those who suffer from the dependency to mind and mood altering substances. They tend to be broken, families in disarray, feel stigmatised, punished, vilified, and worthless.

At the other end, the starting point for drug usage, the indigenousness peoples who have been growing crops of drug producing plants for centuries, often make a living from this farming. The war on drugs has made their lives even less valued. They have been made homeless, open to disease, limited education, and economically restricted lives by having their crops destroyed and nothing put in its place.

The suppliers, gangs of political groups, organised crime groups, and many other entrepreneurial types, are only interested in the financial gain, not of the cost of lives at either end of the process. Problem is, for all the seizures made, arrests made, gangs cracked, there are a dozen more waiting to take their place.

The cost, in Trillions of Dollars, since Nixon officially declares a "war on drugs," in June 1971 identifying drug abuse as "public enemy No. 1," has created a huge cost in lives, societies, and little impact in supply. Nixon forgetting here that the alcohol prohibition laws of 1920 to 1933 in the USA saw gang crime, the inherent costs to lives, and the economy of control spiral. Supply and demand increased under cartels of “criminals” who just adapted their methods. The war on drug has had the exact same effect.
The UN have been involved as well, but rather than health and the social impact and the prevalence of drug usage, moved towards the language of seizures and prosecutions. Latterly, a UN report from 2010 states that people who use drugs do not forfeit their human rights, and are harmed by approaches that over emphasise criminalisation and punishment while and under-emphasising health and harm reduction.

At both ends of the drug spectrum there are huge social inequalities. The grower tend to be ignored as humans with needs as any other human. Legislation and discourse over centuries have changed public opinion over the contentious subject. There is a power discourse involved. Nations are obviously unhappy to offer a helping hand to people who succumb to addictions, when the substance they use do not create any tax revenue to pay for the treatment.
Prisons around the world are overcrowded with people criminalised through non violent, economic, or anti social crimes because the law has prohibited the use of a substance they have been found carrying. In the UK, the prevalence of there people is young, ethnic, poor, and unemployed. Society tend to sneer on those who use heroin, but I would be very surprised to find that many individual walking down the street may have just smoked heroin, snorted cocaine, or taken too many prescribed drugs. They are not visible in the way of a person lying on the side of the pavement, clearly intoxicated from some drug or other. We have an in build denial as to the depth and breadth of drug use and dependency.

The other issue for decriminalising, of which the are many, is how to manage drugs, presently prohibited. Lessons from alcohol and drug sales could be used as a template. These are not perfect by any means, however, they could be more manageable than drugs from the street corner. Street drugs are notoriously dangerous. They are cut with unknown to the user substances. They may be weaker or stronger at any given time, making the risk of overdose a real issue. Brighton and Hove have the highest death rate in the UK for drug related deaths. Not caring, or using derogatory rhetoric about people drying from their drug dependency is both unhelpful, and missing the point that is can happen to anyone. Addiction is an equal opportunities illness, it knows no boundaries. It could happen to you or a member of your family, friends, and so on.

Decriminalisation has to be the way forward. There needs to be an evidence based discussion with global, multi-national support. There are recent 'Report of the Global Commission on Drug Policy', 3rd June 2011, and last year's book, 'Drug Policy and the Public Good', Thomas Babor, et al., which both report that drug policies in major economically successful countries are not working, to either control amounts, usage, supply, crime, prison, and health problems.

Change is requires. Not a knee jerk reaction. Proper, grown up discourse with evidence and drawing on countries who have made attempts to find a balance between individual and societal welfare, against souring cost which devastate national budgets and see the tax payer paying several times over for an issue that could be managed better.
The potential debate on drug, decriminalisation, treatment of those who grow, supply, and use various substances will always polarise opinion. I have spent years, as an addictions therapist, treating those who suffer from the dependency to mind and mood altering substances. They tend to be broken, families in disarray, feel stigmatised, punished, vilified, and worthless. At the other end, the starting point for drug usage, the indigenousness peoples who have been growing crops of drug producing plants for centuries, often make a living from this farming. The war on drugs has made their lives even less valued. They have been made homeless, open to disease, limited education, and economically restricted lives by having their crops destroyed and nothing put in its place. The suppliers, gangs of political groups, organised crime groups, and many other entrepreneurial types, are only interested in the financial gain, not of the cost of lives at either end of the process. Problem is, for all the seizures made, arrests made, gangs cracked, there are a dozen more waiting to take their place. The cost, in Trillions of Dollars, since Nixon officially declares a "war on drugs," in June 1971 identifying drug abuse as "public enemy No. 1," has created a huge cost in lives, societies, and little impact in supply. Nixon forgetting here that the alcohol prohibition laws of 1920 to 1933 in the USA saw gang crime, the inherent costs to lives, and the economy of control spiral. Supply and demand increased under cartels of “criminals” who just adapted their methods. The war on drug has had the exact same effect. The UN have been involved as well, but rather than health and the social impact and the prevalence of drug usage, moved towards the language of seizures and prosecutions. Latterly, a UN report from 2010 states that people who use drugs do not forfeit their human rights, and are harmed by approaches that over emphasise criminalisation and punishment while and under-emphasising health and harm reduction. At both ends of the drug spectrum there are huge social inequalities. The grower tend to be ignored as humans with needs as any other human. Legislation and discourse over centuries have changed public opinion over the contentious subject. There is a power discourse involved. Nations are obviously unhappy to offer a helping hand to people who succumb to addictions, when the substance they use do not create any tax revenue to pay for the treatment. Prisons around the world are overcrowded with people criminalised through non violent, economic, or anti social crimes because the law has prohibited the use of a substance they have been found carrying. In the UK, the prevalence of there people is young, ethnic, poor, and unemployed. Society tend to sneer on those who use heroin, but I would be very surprised to find that many individual walking down the street may have just smoked heroin, snorted cocaine, or taken too many prescribed drugs. They are not visible in the way of a person lying on the side of the pavement, clearly intoxicated from some drug or other. We have an in build denial as to the depth and breadth of drug use and dependency. The other issue for decriminalising, of which the are many, is how to manage drugs, presently prohibited. Lessons from alcohol and drug sales could be used as a template. These are not perfect by any means, however, they could be more manageable than drugs from the street corner. Street drugs are notoriously dangerous. They are cut with unknown to the user substances. They may be weaker or stronger at any given time, making the risk of overdose a real issue. Brighton and Hove have the highest death rate in the UK for drug related deaths. Not caring, or using derogatory rhetoric about people drying from their drug dependency is both unhelpful, and missing the point that is can happen to anyone. Addiction is an equal opportunities illness, it knows no boundaries. It could happen to you or a member of your family, friends, and so on. Decriminalisation has to be the way forward. There needs to be an evidence based discussion with global, multi-national support. There are recent 'Report of the Global Commission on Drug Policy', 3rd June 2011, and last year's book, 'Drug Policy and the Public Good', Thomas Babor, et al., which both report that drug policies in major economically successful countries are not working, to either control amounts, usage, supply, crime, prison, and health problems. Change is requires. Not a knee jerk reaction. Proper, grown up discourse with evidence and drawing on countries who have made attempts to find a balance between individual and societal welfare, against souring cost which devastate national budgets and see the tax payer paying several times over for an issue that could be managed better. Richardcr56
  • Score: 0

12:10pm Wed 15 Jun 11

AndreMassena says...

NickBrt wrote:
I keep reading about knife crime spiralling out of control in the argus. is this crazy MP going to say it's Ok to wander round threatenind people with knives because the authorities cannot stop it? I wonder what substances she uses before opening her mouth. Still, electing her was a novelty which I hope will be speedily reversed as soon as there's the next election.
If the number of people who use drugs was similar to the number of people who go out and commit 'knife crimes' then I might agree.. but comparing the two is utterly ridiculous.
There is no knife crime epidemic, the media love it but it is one crime in how many 1000s? the fear is disproportionate to the chance of it ever happening to a given person.
Whereas most days just walking through town you might smell someone smoking dope or encounter someone on drugs, and as mentioned one is a violent crime against innocent people the other seldom effects anyone but the user.
[quote][p][bold]NickBrt[/bold] wrote: I keep reading about knife crime spiralling out of control in the argus. is this crazy MP going to say it's Ok to wander round threatenind people with knives because the authorities cannot stop it? I wonder what substances she uses before opening her mouth. Still, electing her was a novelty which I hope will be speedily reversed as soon as there's the next election.[/p][/quote]If the number of people who use drugs was similar to the number of people who go out and commit 'knife crimes' then I might agree.. but comparing the two is utterly ridiculous. There is no knife crime epidemic, the media love it but it is one crime in how many 1000s? the fear is disproportionate to the chance of it ever happening to a given person. Whereas most days just walking through town you might smell someone smoking dope or encounter someone on drugs, and as mentioned one is a violent crime against innocent people the other seldom effects anyone but the user. AndreMassena
  • Score: 0

2:54pm Wed 15 Jun 11

International HIV/AIDS Alliance says...

The International HIV/AIDS Alliance headquarters are based in Hove. We work with injecting drug users around the world and warmly welcome and support Caroline Lucas and Graham Artlett for initiating a debate on the legalisation of personal drug use.

In our experience we know that the war on drugs does not work. Criminalising personal drug use pushes people underground making them more vulnerable to poor health and crime. An environment where people who use drugs can access public health services openly are able to transform the lives of people who use drugs, decrease drug use and drug-related crime, as well as curb the spread of HIV.

www.aidsalliance.org
The International HIV/AIDS Alliance headquarters are based in Hove. We work with injecting drug users around the world and warmly welcome and support Caroline Lucas and Graham Artlett for initiating a debate on the legalisation of personal drug use. In our experience we know that the war on drugs does not work. Criminalising personal drug use pushes people underground making them more vulnerable to poor health and crime. An environment where people who use drugs can access public health services openly are able to transform the lives of people who use drugs, decrease drug use and drug-related crime, as well as curb the spread of HIV. www.aidsalliance.org International HIV/AIDS Alliance
  • Score: 0

7:07pm Wed 15 Jun 11

medileaf says...

prohibitionists need to question their own supported policy stance before they ridiculously start giving cannabis prohibition side effects and fake politically funded trash science propaganda as reason to support and implement more prohibition ,in some weird paradox of poor logic , prohibition has failed ! and you highlight that very well without giving any success rate figures ,why the hell would anyone want to support prohibition at the current cost without knowing what they are acctually paying for , unless they have been lied too by politicians and brainwashed through tax funded scaremongering propaganda ! well i guess it wont be the first time for some of you !
good luck , prohibition has no foundation to work from to reduce any drug related harm as it contradicts its own ruling ,only a regutator , a tap can stem the flow, no taps and you get a flood ,we need to rid the streets of illegal drug dealer, so children are not sold drugs and major crime isn't funded, and to reduce the introduction rate to harder drugs like heroin and methamphetamine , i would like to see all drugs , all drugs listed under the 1971 misuse of drugs act list, this includes tobacco and alcohol, so their markets are not open and dictated by their producers creating a free market paradox of killer substances , this is why i support an evidence based drugs policy ,where drugs like tobacco and alcohol can be regulated to a scale of harm in a way to not spoil it for those responsible consumers , but to crack down on those causing trouble and bootleggers , also to help those with addiction problems overcome there illness, but im not sure prohibition can deliver this and deploying it on the false notion it can is corrupt and should be investigated , caroline lucas for PM
prohibitionists need to question their own supported policy stance before they ridiculously start giving cannabis prohibition side effects and fake politically funded trash science propaganda as reason to support and implement more prohibition ,in some weird paradox of poor logic , prohibition has failed ! and you highlight that very well without giving any success rate figures ,why the hell would anyone want to support prohibition at the current cost without knowing what they are acctually paying for , unless they have been lied too by politicians and brainwashed through tax funded scaremongering propaganda ! well i guess it wont be the first time for some of you ! good luck , prohibition has no foundation to work from to reduce any drug related harm as it contradicts its own ruling ,only a regutator , a tap can stem the flow, no taps and you get a flood ,we need to rid the streets of illegal drug dealer, so children are not sold drugs and major crime isn't funded, and to reduce the introduction rate to harder drugs like heroin and methamphetamine , i would like to see all drugs , all drugs listed under the 1971 misuse of drugs act list, this includes tobacco and alcohol, so their markets are not open and dictated by their producers creating a free market paradox of killer substances , this is why i support an evidence based drugs policy ,where drugs like tobacco and alcohol can be regulated to a scale of harm in a way to not spoil it for those responsible consumers , but to crack down on those causing trouble and bootleggers , also to help those with addiction problems overcome there illness, but im not sure prohibition can deliver this and deploying it on the false notion it can is corrupt and should be investigated , caroline lucas for PM medileaf
  • Score: 0

11:38pm Fri 17 Jun 11

mr_gee says...

Lucas and Bartlett should be commended for championing a new approach to the drugs problem, in face of the abject failure of the current system.
Lucas and Bartlett should be commended for championing a new approach to the drugs problem, in face of the abject failure of the current system. mr_gee
  • Score: 0

12:30pm Sat 18 Jun 11

brightonparty says...

it seems the prohibitionists have quietened down.
They must have realised that the 'war on drugs' is practically over and none of their arguments sound logical any more.

Get heroin of the streets and into the clinics, it's the only way we can hope to get a grip on the situation....

good luck Caroline, you'll need it. The powers that be don't seem to want to change the status quo....
it seems the prohibitionists have quietened down. They must have realised that the 'war on drugs' is practically over and none of their arguments sound logical any more. Get heroin of the streets and into the clinics, it's the only way we can hope to get a grip on the situation.... good luck Caroline, you'll need it. The powers that be don't seem to want to change the status quo.... brightonparty
  • Score: 0

12:39pm Sat 18 Jun 11

brightonparty says...

last post, promise! -

n an extraordinary new initiative announced earlier this month, the Global Commission on Drug Policy has made some courageous and profoundly important recommendations in a report on how to bring more effective control over the illicit drug trade. The commission includes the former presidents or prime ministers of five countries, a former secretary general of the United Nations, human rights leaders, and business and government leaders, including Richard Branson, George P. Shultz and Paul A. Volcker.

The report describes the total failure of the present global antidrug effort, and in particular America's "war on drugs," which was declared 40 years ago today. It notes that the global consumption of opiates has increased 34.5 percent, cocaine 27 percent and cannabis 8.5 percent from 1998 to 2008. Its primary recommendations are to substitute treatment for imprisonment for people who use drugs but do no harm to others, and to concentrate more coordinated international effort on combating violent criminal organizations rather than nonviolent, low-level offenders.

read in full here: http://readersupport
ednews.org/opinion2/
266-32/6298-focus-ca
ll-off-the-global-dr
ug-war
last post, promise! - n an extraordinary new initiative announced earlier this month, the Global Commission on Drug Policy has made some courageous and profoundly important recommendations in a report on how to bring more effective control over the illicit drug trade. The commission includes the former presidents or prime ministers of five countries, a former secretary general of the United Nations, human rights leaders, and business and government leaders, including Richard Branson, George P. Shultz and Paul A. Volcker. The report describes the total failure of the present global antidrug effort, and in particular America's "war on drugs," which was declared 40 years ago today. It notes that the global consumption of opiates has increased 34.5 percent, cocaine 27 percent and cannabis 8.5 percent from 1998 to 2008. Its primary recommendations are to substitute treatment for imprisonment for people who use drugs but do no harm to others, and to concentrate more coordinated international effort on combating violent criminal organizations rather than nonviolent, low-level offenders. read in full here: http://readersupport ednews.org/opinion2/ 266-32/6298-focus-ca ll-off-the-global-dr ug-war brightonparty
  • Score: 0

10:25am Sun 19 Jun 11

Ballroom Blitz says...

As the USA get just about everything spectacularly wrong, if they say there should be a 'war on drugs' the chances are there shouldn't be.
It's a facile point, but it's a valid observation, as 'the war' manifestly has not worked.
We need a new approach, that's for sure, whichever side of the fence you sit on.
As the USA get just about everything spectacularly wrong, if they say there should be a 'war on drugs' the chances are there shouldn't be. It's a facile point, but it's a valid observation, as 'the war' manifestly has not worked. We need a new approach, that's for sure, whichever side of the fence you sit on. Ballroom Blitz
  • Score: 0

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