MP and Brighton and Hove top cop call for drug use to be decriminalised (From The Argus)
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MP and Brighton and Hove top cop call for drug use to be decriminalised
7:17pm Monday 13th June 2011 in News By Rebecca Evans
MP and Brighton and Hove top cop call for drug use to be decriminalised
A Brighton MP and the city's top policeman have called for personal drug use to be decriminalised as part of a radical rethink on the war on drugs.
Chief Superintendent Graham Bartlett said that a different approach should be looked at to tackle Brighton and Hove’s position as the UK’s drugs death capital.
Brighton Pavilion MP Caroline Lucas said the “war on drugs has failed”.
The pair have called for a fresh debate to curb the number of drug addicts and the best way to treat them including making personal drug possession legal. However Ch Supt Bartlett stressed that the manufacture and supply of drugs should remain a crime.
Last year the city was named as Britain’s drugs death capital for the second year in a row with an average of almost one person a week dying as a result of drugs.
Dr Lucas, who is meeting doctors and NHS workers in Brighton to discuss drugs treatment tonight, said she wants to start a debate on the issue.
She said: “One of my top priorities as a local MP is to tackle Brighton and Hove’s very sad reputation as the drugs death capital of the UK.
“In order to do that, we need to recognise the reality that the so-called “war on drugs” has failed – and start dealing with drugs differently.
“I don’t think it will be easy. A new approach, based on treating drug addiction as a health issue not a criminal one, will represent a significant shift in thinking and any changes should be brought in slowly and carefully.”
Ch Supt Bartlett said: “My officers will continue to enforce the law as it stands. However, my personal view is that whilst production, supply and trafficking are and should remain crimes, the use of drugs is not well addressed through punitive measures.
“Providing people with treatment not only resolves their addiction – thereby minimising risk of overdose, drug related health issues, anti social behaviour and dependence on the state, for example – but cuts the cost to the community by reduced offending.”
For the full report see tomorrow’s Argus.
Comments(82)
sdhgfhfuyt
says...
7:42pm Mon 13 Jun 11
how is this 'debate' going to reduce drug deaths? Sure it might result in fewer gang related murders, but even Friedman admits in the short term it will get WORSE with legalization - every other drug dealer from Liverpool (those that are not already here) will be here before we know it
Stopping advertising our city to addicts and drug cartels might be the logical first step in the debate.
brightonparty
says...
7:58pm Mon 13 Jun 11
You Sir are an Idiot!
The only people prohibition benefits are organised crime gangs, corrupt civil servants and the media.
The only reason we are in the situation we are in is because politicians have not taken the risk of speaking out about the total failure of the 30 year 'war on drugs'.
If you even did a modicum of research you would find that legalisation does NOT lead to an increase in drug use. FACT
If you were able to think logically and rationally about the problem you would see that this futile war has caused more damage than it was supposed to prevent. Unfortunately it has got to the point where criminals have amassed ever growing fortunes (it was drug money in the banking system that kept us afloat when the banks went down), corruption is rife in the police and prison service, thousands upon thousands of families have been torn apart and many more people have needlessly died a slow and painful death.
Way to go guys, who planned this war exactly???
As the drug death capital of the UK it is our duty to show that there is another way and we can reduce the harm drugs do a we can take a source of revenue away fro organised crime. Of course it won't be easy, if it was easy we would have done it already. Brighton is the only city in the UK that has even the remotest possibility of making a change and showing how it can be done.
brightonparty
says...
8:11pm Mon 13 Jun 11
I speak from experience having sold cannabis as amid-level dealer in Brighton from the mid-eighties through to the mid-nineties.
I experienced 1st hand Police corruption, vicious drug gangs, the piles of cash going into organised crime and witnessed the influx of cheap heroin into Brighton that resulted in at least 15 of my friends getting hooked and dying a slow painful death.
I'm sure they would all be alive now if we as a society, took a more responsible and rational view to drug use.
I was lucky I managed to turn my back on the lure of easy money and started my own company which is now very successful and employs dozens of local people. I still like to smoke cannabis of an evening to relax and as I'm harming no one but myself that shouldn't be a problem for anyone, right?
*think* "If only I could get a government licence to grow a cannabis plant in my own home, what a wonderful world that would be"
Humans getting high....It ain't going to sop any time soon so my advice is just deal with it. :)
sdhgfhfuyt
says...
8:15pm Mon 13 Jun 11
brightonparty wrote:There's a lot to unpack in your emotion fueled argument; to be honest, writing the word 'FACT' within a sentence doesn't actually allude to a factual statement when you have no references to support it
Reggie Kray
You Sir are an Idiot!
The only people prohibition benefits are organised crime gangs, corrupt civil servants and the media.
The only reason we are in the situation we are in is because politicians have not taken the risk of speaking out about the total failure of the 30 year 'war on drugs'.
If you even did a modicum of research you would find that legalisation does NOT lead to an increase in drug use. FACT
If you were able to think logically and rationally about the problem you would see that this futile war has caused more damage than it was supposed to prevent. Unfortunately it has got to the point where criminals have amassed ever growing fortunes (it was drug money in the banking system that kept us afloat when the banks went down), corruption is rife in the police and prison service, thousands upon thousands of families have been torn apart and many more people have needlessly died a slow and painful death.
Way to go guys, who planned this war exactly???
As the drug death capital of the UK it is our duty to show that there is another way and we can reduce the harm drugs do a we can take a source of revenue away fro organised crime. Of course it won't be easy, if it was easy we would have done it already. Brighton is the only city in the UK that has even the remotest possibility of making a change and showing how it can be done.
brightonparty
says...
8:32pm Mon 13 Jun 11
I've done my research so you'll just have to trust me ;)
I've harangued the council about this on more than one occasion. It sickens me to see how bad things have got. 20 years ago I said to the police who were constantly arresting me (or trying to) "why the **** are you hassling me when heroin is much more of a problem"
They tried to frame me once to get me to name my supplier, I told them where to go and if I knew anyone selling Heroin I would tell them but not for dope.
I've been there, done that, got the t-shirt and criminal record.
If you think about it, I mean really, really think about it. What is the logical conclusion of the current war on drugs? If it's got a happy ending I'd love to hear it!
TheInsider
says...
8:34pm Mon 13 Jun 11
They still have nasty 'colleagues' turning up at their houses who don't want to kick the habit and one couple even came home to find a junkie dead in their bungalow from an overdose.
This 'unofficial' decriminalisation hasn't worked either, it's just given the police an excuse to offload a problem.
I really don't know what the answer is but I think this suggestion may also be an over-simplification.
brightonparty
says...
8:37pm Mon 13 Jun 11
http://en.wikipedia.
org/wiki/Opium_produ
ction_in_Afghanistan
http://www.nps.edu/P
rograms/CCS/Docs/Opi
um/Heroin_processing
http://ideas.repec.o
rg/p/kyo/wpaper/635.
html
brightonparty
says...
8:41pm Mon 13 Jun 11
org/wiki/Illegal_dru
g_trade.
http://www.wellcomec
ollection.org/whats-
on/exhibitions/high-
society.aspx
haris_pilton
says...
8:42pm Mon 13 Jun 11
brightonparty
says...
8:49pm Mon 13 Jun 11
haris_pilton wrote:of course... but it's a condensed form and easy to access for those with short attention spans.
well let's not take everything on wikipedia as fact either, as anyone can contribute to it.
The plain fact is that the current situation is not working. It's pretty easy to get a grip on it, but no doubt the press will whip up a storm as usual and all sensible debate will be lost in a blizzard of emotion.
http://www.un.org/ap
ps/news/story.asp?Ne
wsID=25523&Cr=afghan
&Cr1=drugs
this was 3 years ago, nothing has changed much
brightonparty
says...
8:51pm Mon 13 Jun 11
library/publications
/the-world-factbook/
geos/af.html
Hove Actually
says...
9:06pm Mon 13 Jun 11
Trouble is give people an inch and they want a mile, the same arguement is used for not raising the speed limits.
BUT i think the govenemnt selling drugs to make money would work ,,,,,,,maybe
sdhgfhfuyt
says...
9:22pm Mon 13 Jun 11
brightonparty wrote:http://www.youtube.c
haris_pilton wrote:of course... but it's a condensed form and easy to access for those with short attention spans.
well let's not take everything on wikipedia as fact either, as anyone can contribute to it.
The plain fact is that the current situation is not working. It's pretty easy to get a grip on it, but no doubt the press will whip up a storm as usual and all sensible debate will be lost in a blizzard of emotion.
http://www.un.org/ap
ps/news/story.asp?Ne
wsID=25523&Cr=af
ghan
&Cr1=drugs
this was 3 years ago, nothing has changed much
om/watch?v=oyystXOfD
qo
great video from one of the most intelligent economists who ever lived. Fair enough he's a capitalist, and is referring to a different era/place, but a lot of the arguments are still valid.
mtmoocher
says...
9:42pm Mon 13 Jun 11
reggie kray
says...
9:56pm Mon 13 Jun 11
im sick of toffy nosed waffle FACT!! your not street wise , Fact !! Take your head out of your book and open your eyes.
Drugs ruin lives FACT!! and thats what i tell my boys ........_
george smith
says...
10:07pm Mon 13 Jun 11
george smith
says...
10:07pm Mon 13 Jun 11
Manag.
says...
10:15pm Mon 13 Jun 11
All drugs should have government health warnings on them as per tobacco.
Cannabis eg would read 'by taking cannabis, severe paranoia and delusions of self grandeur are guaranteed, you are also likely to develop paranoid schizoprenia, start writing manic, deluded articles in your local paper's forum, ending life in a hermitic state answering the door or phone to no one but your dealer
RapMC
says...
10:21pm Mon 13 Jun 11
We have a knife problem, lets legalise illegal weapons.
We have a child **** problem, lets lower the age of consent to 6.
I am certain the idiots who voted this filthy Marxist party in will be laughing when their house gets burgled by drug-induced maniacs.
Ahhhh bless 'em!
brightonparty
says...
10:26pm Mon 13 Jun 11
There is a deterrent, Jail and confiscation of assets. As you probably know this isn't really working so your next logical conclusion is the death penalty for ALL drug users and dealers, not really what we want in a progressive, civilised democracy is it?
Just because I'm a 'reader' does not mean I haven't got real life experience. I was brought up on the streets and estates of Brighton and mixed with the roughest of the rough. I Sir am not toffee-nosed! :)
if you want to reduce drug use, reduce crime, lower council tax bills and improve the quality of life for future generations.
The first step is to admit we got it wrong and the war has failed.
Then start treating current heroin addicts, in exchange for clean heroin (not methadone) they attend drug rehabilitation and do some form of community work, help other addicts get clean and educate children about the very real dangers of drugs.
A person who can overcome heroin addiction and lead a full and productive life is worth at least two of us.
there will always be 5-10% of addicts who are too far gone, we just have to manage them, it would cost far less than we currently pay for their welfare.
But over time the number of hopeless addicts decreases as the rehabilitation programmes take affect (prob 3-5 years)
If you take heroin off the streets and into the clinics there is less chance of your kids coming into contact with it. This would reduce the number of new addicts.
Organised crime would look for other avenues of funding, the police would be able to do their job properly, the streets would be safer (tourists wouldn't get 'taxed') etc etc..but most importantly YOUR children might have a chance to raise your Grandchildren in a society where drugs are not abused.....
anubis
says...
10:29pm Mon 13 Jun 11
The United Nations commission, quite correctly, calls for an end to the “criminalisation, marginalisation and stigmatisation of people who use drugs, but who do no harm to others” - and suggests leading figures in political and public life to “have the courage to articulate publicly what many of them acknowledge privately”, which is that “the evidence overwhelmingly demonstrates that repressive strategies will not solve the drug problem” and that “the war on drugs has not, and cannot, be won”. Instead, what is urgently needed on this issue is a “paradigm shift” - citing the more liberal or enlightened drugs policies of Portugal, Holland and Australia as positive evidence of the “human and social benefits of treating drug addiction as a health rather than criminal justice problem”.
Portugal is a particularly instructive example, historically having one of the highest levels of hard drug use - and abuse - on the continent, the number of heroin-users in 2000 measuring between 50,000 and 100,000 (and a correspondingly high level of HIV/Aids infection). But in 2001 it became the first European country to officially abolish all criminal penalties for ‘personal possession’ of drugs - defined as up to 10 days’ supply, including cocaine, heroine and LSD. Prison sentences were replaced with therapy and treatment. Far from becoming a magnet for drugs tourism though, after five years of decriminalisation, Portugal found that the illegal use of drugs by teenagers had significantly declined, rates of HIV infection sharply fell and the numbers of people requesting therapy to get off drugs had more than doubled. A definite and measurable success in terms of public heath and general societal well-being.
brightonparty
says...
10:33pm Mon 13 Jun 11
Some of the people here can't see the Wood for the Greens.....
brightonparty
says...
10:36pm Mon 13 Jun 11
She's got more cajones than any of the faceless men on here.
I bid you farewell and good night.
Lord Tilford
says...
10:46pm Mon 13 Jun 11
I always wonder where treatment centres (or even legal 'drug shops') would get their opium, cocaine and cannabis from if drugs were de-criminalised. Legalising it in this country would not mean that there would then be a legal supply from another country.
Manag.
says...
11:39pm Mon 13 Jun 11
anubis wrote:Phew,,,done all that writing...time for anoter spliffffffff...aahhh
Drug-related crime costs the UK economy around £13 billion a year in terms of police resources, recidivism, public health, etc. -- an obscene waste of money in what is purported to be an age of austerity.
The United Nations commission, quite correctly, calls for an end to the “criminalisation, marginalisation and stigmatisation of people who use drugs, but who do no harm to others” - and suggests leading figures in political and public life to “have the courage to articulate publicly what many of them acknowledge privately”, which is that “the evidence overwhelmingly demonstrates that repressive strategies will not solve the drug problem” and that “the war on drugs has not, and cannot, be won”. Instead, what is urgently needed on this issue is a “paradigm shift” - citing the more liberal or enlightened drugs policies of Portugal, Holland and Australia as positive evidence of the “human and social benefits of treating drug addiction as a health rather than criminal justice problem”.
Portugal is a particularly instructive example, historically having one of the highest levels of hard drug use - and abuse - on the continent, the number of heroin-users in 2000 measuring between 50,000 and 100,000 (and a correspondingly high level of HIV/Aids infection). But in 2001 it became the first European country to officially abolish all criminal penalties for ‘personal possession’ of drugs - defined as up to 10 days’ supply, including cocaine, heroine and LSD. Prison sentences were replaced with therapy and treatment. Far from becoming a magnet for drugs tourism though, after five years of decriminalisation, Portugal found that the illegal use of drugs by teenagers had significantly declined, rates of HIV infection sharply fell and the numbers of people requesting therapy to get off drugs had more than doubled. A definite and measurable success in terms of public heath and general societal well-being.
hhhhh
malcolmkyle
says...
11:45pm Mon 13 Jun 11
#1. Why do you rejoice at the fact that we have all been stripped of our 4th amendment rights and are now totally subordinate to a corporatized, despotic government with a heavily armed and corrupt, militarized police force whose often deadly intrusions into our homes and lives are condoned by an equally corrupt and spineless judiciary?
#2. Why do you wish to continue to spend $50 billion a year to prosecute and cage your fellow citizens for choosing drugs which are not more dangerous than those of which you yourself use and approve of such as alcohol and tobacco?
#3. Do you honestly expect the rest of us to look on passively while you waste another trillion dollars on this garbage policy?
#4. Why are your waging war on your own family, friends and neighbors?
#5. Why are you so complacent with the fact that our once 'free & proud' nation now has the largest percentage of it's citizenry incarcerated than any other on the entire planet?
#6. Why are you helping to fuel a budget crisis to the point of closing hospitals, schools and libraries?
#7. Why do you rejoice at wasting precious resources on prohibition related undercover work while rapists and murderers walk free, while additionally, many cases involving murder and rape do not even get taken to trial because law enforcement priorities are subverted by your beloved failed and dangerous policy?
#8. Why are you such a supporter of the 'prison industrial complex' to the extent of endangering our own children?
#9. Will you graciously applaud, when due to your own incipient and authoritarian approach, even your own child is caged and raped?
* It is estimated that there are over 300,000 instances of prison rape a year. * 196,000 are estimated to happen to men in prison. * 123,000 are estimated to happen to men in county jail. * 40,000 are estimated to be committed against boys in either adult prisons or while in juvenile facilities or lock ups. * 5000 women are estimated to be raped in prison.
http://www.loompanic
s.com/Articles/RapeI
nPrison.html
#10. And will you also applaud when your own child, due to an unnecessary and counter productive felony conviction, can no longer find employment?
Private prisons are publicly traded and their stock value is tied to the number of inmates. Here's what the UK Economist Magazine thinks of the situation: "Never in the civilised world have so many been locked up for so little" http://www.economist
.com/node/16636027
According to Paul Craig Roberts, a former editor of the Wall Street Journal and former assistant secretary to the treasury under Ronald Reagan, "Police in the US now rival criminals, and exceed terrorists as the greatest threat to the American public."
"Narcotics police are an enormous, corrupt international bureaucracy and now fund a coterie of researchers who provide them with ‘scientific support’, fanatics who distort the legitimate research of others. The anti-marijuana campaign is a cancerous tissue of lies, undermining law enforcement, aggravating the drug problem, depriving the sick of needed help, and suckering well-intentioned conservatives and countless frightened parents." – William F. Buckley, Commentary in The National Review, April 29, 1983, p. 495
There is no conflict between liberty and safety. We will have both or neither. William Ramsey Clark (1927--)
Skippah
says...
3:46am Tue 14 Jun 11
george smith wrote:Difference is, those other crimes have victims. Me smoking a joint of an evening hurts NOBODY except myself, so what business of yours or the governments is it if I choose to smoke instead of poisoning myself with booze at night.
Really dim argument, we lose out on lots of crimes, fraud, kicking off of wing mirrors, but it isn't an excuse to legalise them
Skippah
says...
3:46am Tue 14 Jun 11
Skippah
says...
3:46am Tue 14 Jun 11
haris_pilton
says...
7:01am Tue 14 Jun 11
reggie kray wrote:I hope you don't teach them spelling
brighton party ..as a farther of two teenage boys im entitled to be worried about drugs .... its out of control its to easily available and there is no deterant . legalising it will mean its ok to go to the dealer its ok to carry it around its ok to take it .... well as a parent im telling them its not .
im sick of toffy nosed waffle FACT!! your not street wise , Fact !! Take your head out of your book and open your eyes.
Drugs ruin lives FACT!! and thats what i tell my boys ........_
kidfortuna
says...
7:28am Tue 14 Jun 11
I walk to my local oharmacist and I buy a gram of diamorphine. I go home and inject it at my leisure and go about my day. (I have been a heroin user in the past and the idea you just zonk out after a hit is rubbish, I usually get pretty active. My house is gleaming after a nice hit of heroin on most occasions). Have I harmed anyone? No.
As it is, we have a multi billion dollar industry run by criminals who target the poor and the desperate to take their risks for them and therefore spread as much harm to others as possible. Forgot who said it but No drug in history has every been made safer by making it illegal. Are we going to continually bang on about the 'wrongs' of drug use when the majority of us wake up with coffee (stimulant) and end the day with a beer or a couple of glasses of wine (depressant).
And to those who think it would cause a 'drug-explosion' I'lll tell you a story. I was once in a city I'd never been to before. I wanted to score some heroin. I scored the heroin in less time than it took me to find and buy a roll of tin foil to smoke it off of. That is how easy it is wherever you are in the country.
One posters point about it not working if it's only confined to a certain area (Brighton and HOve) is a good one. It'll becoome a magnet so it needs to be a national policy. Look what happened in Brixton when cannabis was decriminalised for a while - it just became a cannabis hub until the law was changed.
It would definitely take a couple of years or so before Britain was able to start taking responsibility to their own drug use but we'd get there in the end. We've just been far too 'nannyed' around drug consumption for too long now that we'd be like kids in a sweet shop to begin with.
People will ALWAYS take drugs - changing your consciousness is a normal part of the human condition and has been argues as one of the basic needs of our race. If this is so, what the hell are we doing making it illegal??
More than anything I just don't understand why people think the present system has any merit whatsoever, we need a change because people are dying every day from drugs they don't have to. Pure pharmaceutical heroin is non-toxic to the body with the most severe side effects being constipation and addiction - addiction doesn't matter if you have regular and cheap access to said chemical does it? Look at cigarettes.
kidfortuna
says...
7:39am Tue 14 Jun 11
And in respose to the poster wanting answers to the prohibitionists...we
ll done. I'd like to hear from a few of them on the issues raised too.
rolivan
says...
8:18am Tue 14 Jun 11
Andy R
says...
8:56am Tue 14 Jun 11
Fight Back
says...
8:59am Tue 14 Jun 11
brightonparty
says...
9:12am Tue 14 Jun 11
taman wrote:???? Do you even take time to think before opening your mouth????
How are we losing the "WAR"on drugs?
cant have a war without casualties ....
one a week .... quite acceptable ...
man the f up Lucas
Your ignorance is astounding and your arrogance breathtaking....
brightonparty
says...
9:17am Tue 14 Jun 11
rolivan wrote:Great idea, really really great idea. No really, it's a well thought out plan of action that will have 100% success rate.
All drug dealers should be sent back to their place of birth(it sure as hell will not be brighton)and refused re-entry into the county by court order.
Why hasn't anyone thought of that before I wonder????
I think you'll find that most of the established drug cartels in Brighton are home grown and local to Brighton. The fact that Albanian gangs have started to take over the trade only serves to highlight the failings of prohibition and the inadequacies of the Police force in trying to combat this trade.
SmileyD
says...
9:29am Tue 14 Jun 11
reggie kray wrote:So did you actually bother to read the article before before blurting out your ill-informed, knee-jerk reaction? Don't let the facts, or the opinions of the experts, get in the way of your blind prejudice now! I know - maybe YOU are on drugs? Or, more likely, just an idiot.
oh my god !!! so weve lost the war on drugs so lets treat the addicts.......
i could go out and find 10- 20 dealers in a night !! and could have for the last 30 years ..... its all to easy and there lies the problem . so lets make it legal that will be a great deterant ..... come on kids its ok its legal ..... idiots !!
brunswick63
says...
9:32am Tue 14 Jun 11
reggie kray wrote:Compared to Caroline Lucas's other suggestions, such as making Brighton the UK's premier centre for UFO research, then maybe this latest pronouncement has a modicum of sense to it...
brighton party ..as a farther of two teenage boys im entitled to be worried about drugs .... its out of control its to easily available and there is no deterant . legalising it will mean its ok to go to the dealer its ok to carry it around its ok to take it .... well as a parent im telling them its not .
im sick of toffy nosed waffle FACT!! your not street wise , Fact !! Take your head out of your book and open your eyes.
Drugs ruin lives FACT!! and thats what i tell my boys ........_
hearmenow
says...
10:12am Tue 14 Jun 11
rolivan
says...
10:12am Tue 14 Jun 11
brightonparty wrote:So where do the drugs come from? Not grown or manufactured in Brighton and Hove so Dealers must be bringing it in and not just Albanians.
rolivan wrote:Great idea, really really great idea. No really, it's a well thought out plan of action that will have 100% success rate.
All drug dealers should be sent back to their place of birth(it sure as hell will not be brighton)and refused re-entry into the county by court order.
Why hasn't anyone thought of that before I wonder????
I think you'll find that most of the established drug cartels in Brighton are home grown and local to Brighton. The fact that Albanian gangs have started to take over the trade only serves to highlight the failings of prohibition and the inadequacies of the Police force in trying to combat this trade.
TheInsider
says...
10:18am Tue 14 Jun 11
Also my partner's 21 year old nephew is in a psychiatric unit with drug induced psychosis after having a good time at uni with drugs freely available every day.
His view on the availability of drugs is now very different when he first started taking them.
rolivan
says...
10:19am Tue 14 Jun 11
Seagull83
says...
10:25am Tue 14 Jun 11
Zeta Function
says...
10:40am Tue 14 Jun 11
Avoiding the 'war against' mentality is a good start,
as it should help to prevent the ghettorisation of illegal drug use which disempowers and condemns users.
But the big question is will it reduce the mortality rates? Will it be properly funded? And will consumers of drugs feel sufficiently empowered to say no, I don't need it.
Morpheus
says...
10:46am Tue 14 Jun 11
taman
says...
11:54am Tue 14 Jun 11
brightonparty wrote:???? Do you even take time to think before opening your mouth????
taman wrote: How are we losing the "WAR"on drugs? cant have a war without casualties .... one a week .... quite acceptable ... man the f up Lucas???? Do you even take time to think before opening your mouth???? Your ignorance is astounding and your arrogance breathtaking....
Your ignorance is astounding and your arrogance breathtaking....”
Why thank you, nice to be termed as astounding and breathtaking made my day
NastyMrToms
says...
11:57am Tue 14 Jun 11
Beach Combover
says...
12:23pm Tue 14 Jun 11
NastyMrToms wrote:Not everyone HAS to take drugs to be happy you know!!
I see nothing wrong with a spliff , it never did me any harm and i've regularly attended pride events in Brighton where the majority of us had a craft joint before enjoying ourselves ... perhaps more attention should be focused on alcohol which blights towns up & down the country with rowdiness? but then again , the brewers would all be up in arms then wouldn't they.
hearmenow
says...
12:27pm Tue 14 Jun 11
RapMC wrote:Caroline Lucas is a woman.
What a stupid, stupid, stupid man this Caroline Lucas is. What planet is he living on to think the answer is to legalise drugs?
We have a knife problem, lets legalise illegal weapons.
We have a child **** problem, lets lower the age of consent to 6.
I am certain the idiots who voted this filthy Marxist party in will be laughing when their house gets burgled by drug-induced maniacs.
Ahhhh bless 'em!
haris_pilton
says...
12:37pm Tue 14 Jun 11
also, anyone can watch a 2 part programme on the bbc iplayer regarding cannabis growth etc.
Rolivan, I suggest you watch this then you might change your mind about where drugs (certain ones) come from.
You can never have a reasoned argument when emotion is involved, so I suggest everyone make themselves aware of the facts, then make your comments, and I am not just referring to one television documentary.
Lets agree to agree
says...
12:41pm Tue 14 Jun 11
NastyMrToms wrote:Heard you like a drink as well Pride Tom ? LOL
I see nothing wrong with a spliff , it never did me any harm and i've regularly attended pride events in Brighton where the majority of us had a craft joint before enjoying ourselves ... perhaps more attention should be focused on alcohol which blights towns up & down the country with rowdiness? but then again , the brewers would all be up in arms then wouldn't they.
notaconspiracy
says...
1:16pm Tue 14 Jun 11
Greengoddess
says...
3:11pm Tue 14 Jun 11
n.com/petitions/keep
-experts-on-the-drug
s-advisory-council.h
tml The Home Office has openly stated it plans to ignore any report or recommendation that calls for decriminalization, even if it is evidence based. Then they expect the public to believe that they are committed to science and research. Yes, except as it applies to this issue! Get involved all you non-morons! I know Brighton is full of smart people!
PorkBoat
says...
3:44pm Tue 14 Jun 11
sdhgfhfuyt
says...
3:51pm Tue 14 Jun 11
kidfortuna wrote:Based on your description of your cleaning abilities, for some reason i had a vision of a bloke wearing reebok classics speed-dusting an empty front room to the Benny Hill theme tune.
When people use the argument that knife crime is illegal so lets just decriminalise that too so there are less knife-crimes or burglaries etc etc.. It's a different animal entirely! They are crimes AGAINST people - drug use is harming noone but the individual doing it. The harm that extends to others is a direct result of prohibition. Imagine this...
I walk to my local oharmacist and I buy a gram of diamorphine. I go home and inject it at my leisure and go about my day. (I have been a heroin user in the past and the idea you just zonk out after a hit is rubbish, I usually get pretty active. My house is gleaming after a nice hit of heroin on most occasions). Have I harmed anyone? No.
As it is, we have a multi billion dollar industry run by criminals who target the poor and the desperate to take their risks for them and therefore spread as much harm to others as possible. Forgot who said it but No drug in history has every been made safer by making it illegal. Are we going to continually bang on about the 'wrongs' of drug use when the majority of us wake up with coffee (stimulant) and end the day with a beer or a couple of glasses of wine (depressant).
And to those who think it would cause a 'drug-explosion' I'lll tell you a story. I was once in a city I'd never been to before. I wanted to score some heroin. I scored the heroin in less time than it took me to find and buy a roll of tin foil to smoke it off of. That is how easy it is wherever you are in the country.
One posters point about it not working if it's only confined to a certain area (Brighton and HOve) is a good one. It'll becoome a magnet so it needs to be a national policy. Look what happened in Brixton when cannabis was decriminalised for a while - it just became a cannabis hub until the law was changed.
It would definitely take a couple of years or so before Britain was able to start taking responsibility to their own drug use but we'd get there in the end. We've just been far too 'nannyed' around drug consumption for too long now that we'd be like kids in a sweet shop to begin with.
People will ALWAYS take drugs - changing your consciousness is a normal part of the human condition and has been argues as one of the basic needs of our race. If this is so, what the hell are we doing making it illegal??
More than anything I just don't understand why people think the present system has any merit whatsoever, we need a change because people are dying every day from drugs they don't have to. Pure pharmaceutical heroin is non-toxic to the body with the most severe side effects being constipation and addiction - addiction doesn't matter if you have regular and cheap access to said chemical does it? Look at cigarettes.
- i reckon we should make clean heroin available, and in return maybe all imprisoned/highly dependent addicts must promise to start a payment plan for all those car stereos they have stolen / 10p's they have borrowed?
..maybe by helping manually build newer and more modern railway lines (like POW's had to do in Japan, but with better conditions and a big bag of skag to keep 'em happy)
brunswick63
says...
4:07pm Tue 14 Jun 11
hearmenow wrote:Really? Could have fooled me.
RapMC wrote:Caroline Lucas is a woman.
What a stupid, stupid, stupid man this Caroline Lucas is. What planet is he living on to think the answer is to legalise drugs?
We have a knife problem, lets legalise illegal weapons.
We have a child **** problem, lets lower the age of consent to 6.
I am certain the idiots who voted this filthy Marxist party in will be laughing when their house gets burgled by drug-induced maniacs.
Ahhhh bless 'em!
With that crop haircut, I have always thought that she looks like a flavourful Bull-Dyke
Baldseagull
says...
4:15pm Tue 14 Jun 11
The smack addicted should get access to free and clean substances and preferably a safe place to take it.
Baldseagull
says...
4:18pm Tue 14 Jun 11
notaconspiracy wrote:Shut up you halfwit!
FYI : Rule of thumb on these type of forums is: if you insult another poster, you've lost the argument.
cojones
says...
4:50pm Tue 14 Jun 11
Baldseagull wrote:Up yours! You are a couple of dope heads. Caroline, pass the spliff and don't bogart the joint ho!
notaconspiracy wrote:Shut up you halfwit!
FYI : Rule of thumb on these type of forums is: if you insult another poster, you've lost the argument.
Variable
says...
5:17pm Tue 14 Jun 11
The War on Drugs is an abject failure. Making them illegal does not put people off buying them.
Leaving the supply side to criminals, interested only in maximising their profits, means they set the agenda on what gets sold on the streets. So a dealer sells some dodgy gear that's been cut with god-knows-what, and a handful of junkies die. Why should he care?
Saying "People shouldn't take drugs, it's as simple as that," ignores the reality that for many people, drug taking is cheap fun. It's the only way of lifting themselves out of their depressing realities - for a while.
If you really feel menaced by what decriminalising drugs would do, just look at Portugal's story over the past 10 years, when they did just that.
Variable
says...
5:18pm Tue 14 Jun 11
The War on Drugs is an abject failure. Making them illegal does not put people off buying them.
Leaving the supply side to criminals, interested only in maximising their profits, means they set the agenda on what gets sold on the streets. So a dealer sells some dodgy gear that's been cut with god-knows-what, and a handful of junkies die. Why should he care?
Saying "People shouldn't take drugs, it's as simple as that," ignores the reality that for many people, drug taking is cheap fun. It's the only way of lifting themselves out of their depressing realities - for a while.
If you really feel menaced by what decriminalising drugs would do, just look at Portugal's story over the past 10 years, when they did just that.
rolivan
says...
5:51pm Tue 14 Jun 11
haris_pilton wrote:I thought the article was about drugs that are killing an average of one person a week I do not think Marijuana is included.I was making my point about drugs that are leading to the deaths of people.
" don't tell me not to smoke a spliff while you sit there with a double whiskey in your hand".
also, anyone can watch a 2 part programme on the bbc iplayer regarding cannabis growth etc.
Rolivan, I suggest you watch this then you might change your mind about where drugs (certain ones) come from.
You can never have a reasoned argument when emotion is involved, so I suggest everyone make themselves aware of the facts, then make your comments, and I am not just referring to one television documentary.
dregstudios
says...
8:09pm Tue 14 Jun 11
t.blogspot.com/2011/
01/vote-teapot-2011.
html
reggie kray
says...
8:20pm Tue 14 Jun 11
brightonparty
says...
8:40pm Tue 14 Jun 11
reggie kray wrote:'Reg' or whatever your name is, you really are not making any sense at all. None whatsoever. Nish, nil, zero, zilch...I think the technical term is 'twaddle'
really sad !! oh well i look forward to the day i go into the pub and watch people snorting coke off the tables ..... all perfectly legal .... two packets of crisps and a gram of coke please !!!! we didnt loose the war on drugs ...we didnt really fight it !!
It's probably best you find another place to comment as your not bringing anything to the table here.
In fact your making the pro-prohibition camp look really really stupid. You're not stupid are you Reg. Are you?
reggie kray
says...
9:03pm Tue 14 Jun 11
im just sad for the next generation of kids ....
il leave it there ....................
.......
Ballroom Blitz
says...
9:51pm Tue 14 Jun 11
Would people smoke dope if they knew that they would be fined £5000 for each offence? Would people deal drugs if they knew that they would go to prison for life?
My point is that there is no real will to enforce the law properly, or to create laws that would genuinely make people consider whether it was worth the risk.
So therefore one has to ask if this is the case, what the hell is the point in criminalising a sizeable proportion of the population with archaic laws that no-one respects, or is frightened of.
I am no 'legalise drugs' fan, but I'm beginning to wonder about a drugs policy that manifestly has been a disaster for the last 40 years or more.
Ballroom Blitz
says...
9:51pm Tue 14 Jun 11
Would people smoke dope if they knew that they would be fined £5000 for each offence? Would people deal drugs if they knew that they would go to prison for life?
My point is that there is no real will to enforce the law properly, or to create laws that would genuinely make people consider whether it was worth the risk.
So therefore one has to ask if this is the case, what the hell is the point in criminalising a sizeable proportion of the population with archaic laws that no-one respects, or is frightened of.
I am no 'legalise drugs' fan, but I'm beginning to wonder about a drugs policy that manifestly has been a disaster for the last 40 years or more.
AndreMassena
says...
10:35pm Tue 14 Jun 11
It is a waste of Police time and money, it puts prices up and so more money goes to the criminals who push it, making it much more of an attractive trade, as it is illegal quality is not monitored, leading to more sickness and deaths. If it was all above board all these problems would cease.
If you could buy a can of branded beer over the counter for £1.20 would you want to meet some guy down a back alley and give him £5 for an unmarked can of lager? No, I don't think so.
NickBrt
says...
11:06pm Tue 14 Jun 11
brightonparty
says...
11:22pm Tue 14 Jun 11
NickBrt wrote:'reading the Argus'
I keep reading about knife crime spiralling out of control in the argus. is this crazy MP going to say it's Ok to wander round threatenind people with knives because the authorities cannot stop it? I wonder what substances she uses before opening her mouth. Still, electing her was a novelty which I hope will be speedily reversed as soon as there's the next election.
that's where you're going wrong then. Knives don't kill people, people kill people...
With all due respect, it's a redundant and retarded argument i'm afraid.
if the police weren't so tied up dealing with the results of the failed war on drugs they might have enough time to protect the public from knife crime...
John Steed
says...
6:30am Wed 15 Jun 11
the dealers will however continue to serve up crack/cocaine, probaly christal meth, and of course green
the next part of the problem just requires plenty of phsyciatric practioners and rehab places for the treatment of paranoia and delusion
its amazing how many think green and coke are quite safe and simply a harmless recreational drug.
Richardcr56
says...
12:06pm Wed 15 Jun 11
I have spent years, as an addictions therapist, treating those who suffer from the dependency to mind and mood altering substances. They tend to be broken, families in disarray, feel stigmatised, punished, vilified, and worthless.
At the other end, the starting point for drug usage, the indigenousness peoples who have been growing crops of drug producing plants for centuries, often make a living from this farming. The war on drugs has made their lives even less valued. They have been made homeless, open to disease, limited education, and economically restricted lives by having their crops destroyed and nothing put in its place.
The suppliers, gangs of political groups, organised crime groups, and many other entrepreneurial types, are only interested in the financial gain, not of the cost of lives at either end of the process. Problem is, for all the seizures made, arrests made, gangs cracked, there are a dozen more waiting to take their place.
The cost, in Trillions of Dollars, since Nixon officially declares a "war on drugs," in June 1971 identifying drug abuse as "public enemy No. 1," has created a huge cost in lives, societies, and little impact in supply. Nixon forgetting here that the alcohol prohibition laws of 1920 to 1933 in the USA saw gang crime, the inherent costs to lives, and the economy of control spiral. Supply and demand increased under cartels of “criminals” who just adapted their methods. The war on drug has had the exact same effect.
The UN have been involved as well, but rather than health and the social impact and the prevalence of drug usage, moved towards the language of seizures and prosecutions. Latterly, a UN report from 2010 states that people who use drugs do not forfeit their human rights, and are harmed by approaches that over emphasise criminalisation and punishment while and under-emphasising health and harm reduction.
At both ends of the drug spectrum there are huge social inequalities. The grower tend to be ignored as humans with needs as any other human. Legislation and discourse over centuries have changed public opinion over the contentious subject. There is a power discourse involved. Nations are obviously unhappy to offer a helping hand to people who succumb to addictions, when the substance they use do not create any tax revenue to pay for the treatment.
Prisons around the world are overcrowded with people criminalised through non violent, economic, or anti social crimes because the law has prohibited the use of a substance they have been found carrying. In the UK, the prevalence of there people is young, ethnic, poor, and unemployed. Society tend to sneer on those who use heroin, but I would be very surprised to find that many individual walking down the street may have just smoked heroin, snorted cocaine, or taken too many prescribed drugs. They are not visible in the way of a person lying on the side of the pavement, clearly intoxicated from some drug or other. We have an in build denial as to the depth and breadth of drug use and dependency.
The other issue for decriminalising, of which the are many, is how to manage drugs, presently prohibited. Lessons from alcohol and drug sales could be used as a template. These are not perfect by any means, however, they could be more manageable than drugs from the street corner. Street drugs are notoriously dangerous. They are cut with unknown to the user substances. They may be weaker or stronger at any given time, making the risk of overdose a real issue. Brighton and Hove have the highest death rate in the UK for drug related deaths. Not caring, or using derogatory rhetoric about people drying from their drug dependency is both unhelpful, and missing the point that is can happen to anyone. Addiction is an equal opportunities illness, it knows no boundaries. It could happen to you or a member of your family, friends, and so on.
Decriminalisation has to be the way forward. There needs to be an evidence based discussion with global, multi-national support. There are recent 'Report of the Global Commission on Drug Policy', 3rd June 2011, and last year's book, 'Drug Policy and the Public Good', Thomas Babor, et al., which both report that drug policies in major economically successful countries are not working, to either control amounts, usage, supply, crime, prison, and health problems.
Change is requires. Not a knee jerk reaction. Proper, grown up discourse with evidence and drawing on countries who have made attempts to find a balance between individual and societal welfare, against souring cost which devastate national budgets and see the tax payer paying several times over for an issue that could be managed better.
AndreMassena
says...
12:10pm Wed 15 Jun 11
NickBrt wrote:If the number of people who use drugs was similar to the number of people who go out and commit 'knife crimes' then I might agree.. but comparing the two is utterly ridiculous.
I keep reading about knife crime spiralling out of control in the argus. is this crazy MP going to say it's Ok to wander round threatenind people with knives because the authorities cannot stop it? I wonder what substances she uses before opening her mouth. Still, electing her was a novelty which I hope will be speedily reversed as soon as there's the next election.
There is no knife crime epidemic, the media love it but it is one crime in how many 1000s? the fear is disproportionate to the chance of it ever happening to a given person.
Whereas most days just walking through town you might smell someone smoking dope or encounter someone on drugs, and as mentioned one is a violent crime against innocent people the other seldom effects anyone but the user.
International HIV/AIDS Alliance
says...
2:54pm Wed 15 Jun 11
In our experience we know that the war on drugs does not work. Criminalising personal drug use pushes people underground making them more vulnerable to poor health and crime. An environment where people who use drugs can access public health services openly are able to transform the lives of people who use drugs, decrease drug use and drug-related crime, as well as curb the spread of HIV.
www.aidsalliance.org
medileaf
says...
7:07pm Wed 15 Jun 11
good luck , prohibition has no foundation to work from to reduce any drug related harm as it contradicts its own ruling ,only a regutator , a tap can stem the flow, no taps and you get a flood ,we need to rid the streets of illegal drug dealer, so children are not sold drugs and major crime isn't funded, and to reduce the introduction rate to harder drugs like heroin and methamphetamine , i would like to see all drugs , all drugs listed under the 1971 misuse of drugs act list, this includes tobacco and alcohol, so their markets are not open and dictated by their producers creating a free market paradox of killer substances , this is why i support an evidence based drugs policy ,where drugs like tobacco and alcohol can be regulated to a scale of harm in a way to not spoil it for those responsible consumers , but to crack down on those causing trouble and bootleggers , also to help those with addiction problems overcome there illness, but im not sure prohibition can deliver this and deploying it on the false notion it can is corrupt and should be investigated , caroline lucas for PM
mr_gee
says...
11:38pm Fri 17 Jun 11
brightonparty
says...
12:30pm Sat 18 Jun 11
They must have realised that the 'war on drugs' is practically over and none of their arguments sound logical any more.
Get heroin of the streets and into the clinics, it's the only way we can hope to get a grip on the situation....
good luck Caroline, you'll need it. The powers that be don't seem to want to change the status quo....
brightonparty
says...
12:39pm Sat 18 Jun 11
n an extraordinary new initiative announced earlier this month, the Global Commission on Drug Policy has made some courageous and profoundly important recommendations in a report on how to bring more effective control over the illicit drug trade. The commission includes the former presidents or prime ministers of five countries, a former secretary general of the United Nations, human rights leaders, and business and government leaders, including Richard Branson, George P. Shultz and Paul A. Volcker.
The report describes the total failure of the present global antidrug effort, and in particular America's "war on drugs," which was declared 40 years ago today. It notes that the global consumption of opiates has increased 34.5 percent, cocaine 27 percent and cannabis 8.5 percent from 1998 to 2008. Its primary recommendations are to substitute treatment for imprisonment for people who use drugs but do no harm to others, and to concentrate more coordinated international effort on combating violent criminal organizations rather than nonviolent, low-level offenders.
read in full here: http://readersupport
ednews.org/opinion2/
266-32/6298-focus-ca
ll-off-the-global-dr
ug-war
Ballroom Blitz
says...
10:25am Sun 19 Jun 11
It's a facile point, but it's a valid observation, as 'the war' manifestly has not worked.
We need a new approach, that's for sure, whichever side of the fence you sit on.
reggie kray says...
7:34pm Mon 13 Jun 11
i could go out and find 10- 20 dealers in a night !! and could have for the last 30 years ..... its all to easy and there lies the problem . so lets make it legal that will be a great deterant ..... come on kids its ok its legal ..... idiots !!