LIVE UPDATES: Sussex on strike (From The Argus)

Good job you told us they were on strike otherwise we would not really notice these overpaid "civil servents" were out claiming more and more from the trough that all us poor tax payers have to fill

Hove Actually maintains the anti-PSW lobby's fine tradition of poor literacy. Perhaps an overpaid civil "servent" (or teacher) could help...

Do people really think that ALL public sector workers are on £100,000 plus! Get reall most are on less than the so called national average and will have an average pension of LESS THAN £5k per year.

So before people start slagging off the Public Sector workers - get your facts correct.

I am not in the pubic sector but fully support them today.

1) They should feel lucky they have jobs and 2) They should feel lucky that they actually have pension schemes; there's a hell of a lot of private sector workers who have no pension scheme whatsoever!

Strangely enough, I don't recall the unions screaming blue-murder when it's private sector jobs on the line....

I wish they would STFU outside of Hollingdean Depot - whilst these lazy sods may have a day off today, some of us DO have to go to work and dont want to be woken up at 6am by car horns and 'battle buses' blasting music out and interrupting peoples sleep. By all means sabotage your own futures but dont sabotage mine...

Just because the private sector have been too apathetic to challenge their grivances in the past does not mean the public sector should be denied this. We should be supporting their actions 100% because they actually have the balls to stand up to this government.
The public sector pay taxes too (in response to the first post). Maybe some of them do feel lucky to have jobs at all - it is a fairly diverse range of employees that make up the public sector - not all "over paid civil servents (sic)" - and cuts etc are also threatening jobs. This government are beholden to the banking sector who are responsible for the financial mess we are in and yet continue to pay themselves massive bonuses. As long as this unjustness continues the public sector and any other group who is prepared to p1ss the government off have my support 100% (and I am not employed by the public sector either)

The Gnome wrote:
Hove Actually maintains the anti-PSW lobby's fine tradition of poor literacy. Perhaps an overpaid civil "servent" (or teacher) could help...

So your point is a poorly educated person working hard should pay the pension of the teacher who failed him whilst not being able to afford one himself.
And that is why you will lose and it doesen't matter how long you strike for, ask Arthur Scargill

jimbobmaginty wrote:
Bunch of idiots! I see this lot in the same light as the benefit scroungers!!
I want more more more! I deserve it! Bla bla bla!

Be happy you have a job you inbreads!!

If it was down to me id start sacking these complainers and start hiring new employees minus the pension!

Well thank God that some sort of filtering works in that case and keeps you out of such decision making processes.

Bin men are the last people I think should be given rights!
They don’t do an honest day’s work in their lives!
They are one of the laziest workforces in this country!

They should all be docked min of a days pay even if they are not being paid today and donate £100 to all those who have had to pay additional money out today because of their Northern mentality. We are still expected to pay the nursery school for today even though they cannot provide a service and costing us extra money for an alternative arrangement

Get back to work or P45 SIMPLES

These answers are disappointing and slightly insane? Do people even understand what the public sector is or what it does??? I am a public sector worker, I get paid very little, I have not had a pay rise in 4yrs. I pay my taxes like anyone else. I live in a one bedroom flat. I work long hours, mostly unpaid. I take my work home with me because when you work in the public sector it’s not easy to turn your head off at 5pm. I have no opportunity of promotion because the public sector is working on a shoe string as it is and I am one of millions of Public Sector workers in that position. In the main to be a public sector worker is to take on a vocation. Most of the people I have come across in the Public Sector are devoted, educated, caring people trying to make a difference with very little money at their disposal and now we are to sacrifice our pensions as well as continue our pay freeze. I am behind this strike 100% even if all it achieves is to teach the common person what exactly the public sector do!!!!!!!

Hove Actually wrote:
Good job you told us they were on strike otherwise we would not really notice these overpaid "civil servents" were out claiming more and more from the trough that all us poor tax payers have to fill

Nurses over paid!, thank you for letting me know, I have clearly been misreading my wage slip.

I previously worked for the public sector and saw countless cases of people obtaining their pensions early through supposed 'permanent ill health' and then going straight back into work (for the public sector) on a full time salary whilst still receiving their pensions and having also received a lump sum for their ill health. The pension scheme has been fiddled for YEARS by these people.

Astonished at the lack of knowledge wrote:
These answers are disappointing and slightly insane? Do people even understand what the public sector is or what it does??? I am a public sector worker, I get paid very little, I have not had a pay rise in 4yrs. I pay my taxes like anyone else. I live in a one bedroom flat. I work long hours, mostly unpaid. I take my work home with me because when you work in the public sector it’s not easy to turn your head off at 5pm. I have no opportunity of promotion because the public sector is working on a shoe string as it is and I am one of millions of Public Sector workers in that position. In the main to be a public sector worker is to take on a vocation. Most of the people I have come across in the Public Sector are devoted, educated, caring people trying to make a difference with very little money at their disposal and now we are to sacrifice our pensions as well as continue our pay freeze. I am behind this strike 100% even if all it achieves is to teach the common person what exactly the public sector do!!!!!!!

Oh please!

You work long hours, mostly unpaid.. Well how dumb are you!

I take my work home with me... Sorry but that's YOUR choice to do so.

I get paid very little... At least you have a job, try saying that to the many millions in minimum wage jobs in the private sector.

You CHOSE to be a public sector worker for probably one or two reasons, one it's virtually a job for life, you get a lot more in pension contributions than, and you could retire early under their previous/ existing rules at 60yrs old!

It's about time civil service pensions were scrapped for new hirers and everbody had a personal pension, why should the vast majority pay for you.

Stop bleating, if you don't like it, get a job in the private sector and see how you like that!

Mart2a wrote:
They should all be docked min of a days pay even if they are not being paid today and donate £100 to all those who have had to pay additional money out today because of their Northern mentality. We are still expected to pay the nursery school for today even though they cannot provide a service and costing us extra money for an alternative arrangement

Get back to work or P45 SIMPLES

Wish I earned £100 a day, less than half that.
Some of the local government pension schemes were reformed only 3 years ago, cutting the amount many low paid public sector workers will receive. They now want more cuts and pay more in. My wages have hardly risen in the last 10 years.
I struggle to find the payments for my pension but do not want to be claiming from the state when I retire, I will get less than £5,000 from the pension scheme when I do retire. At least I'm making the effort. If this government changes the pension schemes, which it probably will despite all our protests, what's to stop it coming back in another 3 years and changing it again, at least they know we're making a stand.
The last government robbed the private pensions of £5 billion, now they want to do the same to the public pensions, at least we're trying to stop them.

Hollingdeanresident wrote:
I wish they would STFU outside of Hollingdean Depot - whilst these lazy sods may have a day off today, some of us DO have to go to work and dont want to be woken up at 6am by car horns and 'battle buses' blasting music out and interrupting peoples sleep. By all means sabotage your own futures but dont sabotage mine...

why don't you go out and vomit on their shoes?

We give people too much freedom of speech in this country!

I just saw a mass march and all I saw was a bunch of inbread misfits making noise!

Maybe us private sector workers should go out and counter protest against them! Most of us don’t get a pension after all?

Oh no I forgot I have to work!

The government better not cave in on this! I want them to stick to their guns!
I would come back with a worse deal now that they have gone on strike!

jimbobmaginty wrote:
We give people too much freedom of speech in this country!

I just saw a mass march and all I saw was a bunch of inbread misfits making noise!

Maybe us private sector workers should go out and counter protest against them! Most of us don’t get a pension after all?

Oh no I forgot I have to work!

There's nothing stopping you from taking a pension out. At least most of the public sector do pay into a pension, we will be less of a burden on the state when we do retire.

worktodeath wrote:

Mart2a wrote: They should all be docked min of a days pay even if they are not being paid today and donate £100 to all those who have had to pay additional money out today because of their Northern mentality. We are still expected to pay the nursery school for today even though they cannot provide a service and costing us extra money for an alternative arrangement Get back to work or P45 SIMPLES

Wish I earned £100 a day, less than half that. Some of the local government pension schemes were reformed only 3 years ago, cutting the amount many low paid public sector workers will receive. They now want more cuts and pay more in. My wages have hardly risen in the last 10 years. I struggle to find the payments for my pension but do not want to be claiming from the state when I retire, I will get less than £5,000 from the pension scheme when I do retire. At least I'm making the effort. If this government changes the pension schemes, which it probably will despite all our protests, what's to stop it coming back in another 3 years and changing it again, at least they know we're making a stand. The last government robbed the private pensions of £5 billion, now they want to do the same to the public pensions, at least we're trying to stop them.

Indeed that may be the case for you, but the facts are much different, which the unions don't dispute..

Lord Hutton's report:
Average Public sector pension: £7,800
Median Payout £5,600

Office for National Statistics report: Average public sector pay is HIGHER than average private sector pay £466 a wk compared to £388 a week, or £13.54 /hr public sector, £10.06 /hr in private sector!

It's also a fact that the average private sector worker in a defined contribution pension scheme has to put in "around £200,000" into his/her pension pot to get the same benefits as the public sector worker due to the vastly more generous employer contributions received in the public sector!!!

These facts are not disputed by the unions, perhaps public sector workers should wake up and smell the roses rather than being so greedy when everbody else has to suffer, or are they so much better than us.

worktodeath wrote:

jimbobmaginty wrote:
We give people too much freedom of speech in this country!

I just saw a mass march and all I saw was a bunch of inbread misfits making noise!

Maybe us private sector workers should go out and counter protest against them! Most of us don’t get a pension after all?

Oh no I forgot I have to work!

There's nothing stopping you from taking a pension out. At least most of the public sector do pay into a pension, we will be less of a burden on the state when we do retire.

well all do pay into the state pension, through National Insurance, 12% of your annual salary for most people! (plus your employer's contribution - or for contractors like me, we have to pay that ourselves - that's 24% of my wages already spent on my pension each year!!) Seems like quite a lot to me!

worktodeath wrote:

jimbobmaginty wrote: We give people too much freedom of speech in this country! I just saw a mass march and all I saw was a bunch of inbread misfits making noise! Maybe us private sector workers should go out and counter protest against them! Most of us don’t get a pension after all? Oh no I forgot I have to work!

There's nothing stopping you from taking a pension out. At least most of the public sector do pay into a pension, we will be less of a burden on the state when we do retire.

I do have a private pension that I pay a substantial amount to every month just to ensure that when Im older I can retire with a nice big sum. What I meant was is that my employer does not give me a pension so I have to get my own.

Servalan wrote:

Hollingdeanresident wrote:
I wish they would STFU outside of Hollingdean Depot - whilst these lazy sods may have a day off today, some of us DO have to go to work and dont want to be woken up at 6am by car horns and 'battle buses' blasting music out and interrupting peoples sleep. By all means sabotage your own futures but dont sabotage mine...

why don't you go out and vomit on their shoes?

Thought I'd find you here, trolling away using one of your sock puppet accounts.

So today, you're using 'Servalan'; and what was it yesterday? 'The Baron of Beef'. And the day before that? 'Sir Loin Of Pork'.

You're just another Green party apparatchik paid to undermine any sensible comments, or comments against the Greens

Lucky I’m at work or else I would go out and buy 100 eggs and get some aiming practise in!

mustaphaLeeko wrote:

worktodeath wrote:

Mart2a wrote: They should all be docked min of a days pay even if they are not being paid today and donate £100 to all those who have had to pay additional money out today because of their Northern mentality. We are still expected to pay the nursery school for today even though they cannot provide a service and costing us extra money for an alternative arrangement Get back to work or P45 SIMPLES

Wish I earned £100 a day, less than half that. Some of the local government pension schemes were reformed only 3 years ago, cutting the amount many low paid public sector workers will receive. They now want more cuts and pay more in. My wages have hardly risen in the last 10 years. I struggle to find the payments for my pension but do not want to be claiming from the state when I retire, I will get less than £5,000 from the pension scheme when I do retire. At least I'm making the effort. If this government changes the pension schemes, which it probably will despite all our protests, what's to stop it coming back in another 3 years and changing it again, at least they know we're making a stand. The last government robbed the private pensions of £5 billion, now they want to do the same to the public pensions, at least we're trying to stop them.

Indeed that may be the case for you, but the facts are much different, which the unions don't dispute.. Lord Hutton's report: Average Public sector pension: £7,800 Median Payout £5,600 Office for National Statistics report: Average public sector pay is HIGHER than average private sector pay £466 a wk compared to £388 a week, or £13.54 /hr public sector, £10.06 /hr in private sector! It's also a fact that the average private sector worker in a defined contribution pension scheme has to put in "around £200,000" into his/her pension pot to get the same benefits as the public sector worker due to the vastly more generous employer contributions received in the public sector!!! These facts are not disputed by the unions, perhaps public sector workers should wake up and smell the roses rather than being so greedy when everbody else has to suffer, or are they so much better than us.

oh, and here's the source for the facts in case you think I'm making the figures up!!!

http://blogs.channel
4.com/factcheck/why-
camerons-right-on-pu
blic-sector-pensions
/7090

Servalan wrote:

worktodeath wrote:

jimbobmaginty wrote:
We give people too much freedom of speech in this country!

I just saw a mass march and all I saw was a bunch of inbread misfits making noise!

Maybe us private sector workers should go out and counter protest against them! Most of us don’t get a pension after all?

Oh no I forgot I have to work!

There's nothing stopping you from taking a pension out. At least most of the public sector do pay into a pension, we will be less of a burden on the state when we do retire.

well all do pay into the state pension, through National Insurance, 12% of your annual salary for most people! (plus your employer's contribution - or for contractors like me, we have to pay that ourselves - that's 24% of my wages already spent on my pension each year!!) Seems like quite a lot to me!

The problem with the state pension is that this government, in April changed the measurement by which state pensions increase to the lower inflation rate, so by the time most of us retire it will be even less than today in real terms. Most people on pensions get top ups, council tax paid, rents paid etc. We're all caught up in a vicious circle, if you pay into a pension you get nothing except basic and end up paying some tax on your pension you've paid in for. If you don't pay into a pension then 15 years down the line, the government will have changed the goal posts on state pensions and you'll be even worse off.

Diaper Sector wrote:

Servalan wrote:

Hollingdeanresident wrote:
I wish they would STFU outside of Hollingdean Depot - whilst these lazy sods may have a day off today, some of us DO have to go to work and dont want to be woken up at 6am by car horns and 'battle buses' blasting music out and interrupting peoples sleep. By all means sabotage your own futures but dont sabotage mine...

why don't you go out and vomit on their shoes?

Thought I'd find you here, trolling away using one of your sock puppet accounts.

So today, you're using 'Servalan'; and what was it yesterday? 'The Baron of Beef'. And the day before that? 'Sir Loin Of Pork'.

You're just another Green party apparatchik paid to undermine any sensible comments, or comments against the Greens

I just have one login, thank you, unlike yourself, "A Person", "Pork William", "NickBrt" etc

jimbobmaginty wrote:

worktodeath wrote:

jimbobmaginty wrote: We give people too much freedom of speech in this country! I just saw a mass march and all I saw was a bunch of inbread misfits making noise! Maybe us private sector workers should go out and counter protest against them! Most of us don’t get a pension after all? Oh no I forgot I have to work!

There's nothing stopping you from taking a pension out. At least most of the public sector do pay into a pension, we will be less of a burden on the state when we do retire.

I do have a private pension that I pay a substantial amount to every month just to ensure that when Im older I can retire with a nice big sum. What I meant was is that my employer does not give me a pension so I have to get my own.

Why doesn't the government spend it's time encouraging and giving incentives to private companies to provide decent private pensions, instead of dragging every one's pensions to bare minimum

Not interested.Try working in the private sector!!

I work in public service,for a private company ergo have a private pension. Im also a member of Unite the union.
i'm not striking and neither are my colleagues.
In this awful economic climate people should be happy they have a job, and please dont berate me you government employees, YOU are leaving the sick and the poor to look after themselves today -not me.
Bloody grow up and put some money away for the rainy day and bare in mind you have a responsibility to first your electorate who you are supposed to work for/teach/nurse and secondly the tax payer.

Astonished at the lack of knowledge wrote:
These answers are disappointing and slightly insane? Do people even understand what the public sector is or what it does??? I am a public sector worker, I get paid very little, I have not had a pay rise in 4yrs. I pay my taxes like anyone else. I live in a one bedroom flat. I work long hours, mostly unpaid. I take my work home with me because when you work in the public sector it’s not easy to turn your head off at 5pm. I have no opportunity of promotion because the public sector is working on a shoe string as it is and I am one of millions of Public Sector workers in that position. In the main to be a public sector worker is to take on a vocation. Most of the people I have come across in the Public Sector are devoted, educated, caring people trying to make a difference with very little money at their disposal and now we are to sacrifice our pensions as well as continue our pay freeze. I am behind this strike 100% even if all it achieves is to teach the common person what exactly the public sector do!!!!!!!

astonished_at_the_am
ount_of_times_you_pu
t_the_words_public_s
ector_in_your_pointl
ess_rant

Mart2a wrote:
They should all be docked min of a days pay even if they are not being paid today and donate £100 to all those who have had to pay additional money out today because of their Northern mentality. We are still expected to pay the nursery school for today even though they cannot provide a service and costing us extra money for an alternative arrangement

Get back to work or P45 SIMPLES

Good idea. In fact they should stay on strike forever and have all their pay docked. Their jobs could be redistributed to people want their generous pensions. A lot of thinning out could go on at the same time and perhaps we could have a nice reduction in council tax too as a result of this.

Judging by the comments here, it seems that the government is being very successful in its divide and rule approach.

We should not be at each others throats, we should unite against the few who got us into this economic mess. In general, the politicians are self serving as opposed to serving the electorate. The bankers still draw their obscene bonuses.

Wake up Britain ! Do not argue among yourselves. Let us the 99% take on the 1% together.

Servalan wrote:

worktodeath wrote:

jimbobmaginty wrote:
We give people too much freedom of speech in this country!

I just saw a mass march and all I saw was a bunch of inbread misfits making noise!

Maybe us private sector workers should go out and counter protest against them! Most of us don’t get a pension after all?

Oh no I forgot I have to work!

There's nothing stopping you from taking a pension out. At least most of the public sector do pay into a pension, we will be less of a burden on the state when we do retire.

well all do pay into the state pension, through National Insurance, 12% of your annual salary for most people! (plus your employer's contribution - or for contractors like me, we have to pay that ourselves - that's 24% of my wages already spent on my pension each year!!) Seems like quite a lot to me!

Not all NI contributions go towards the State Pension. From the HMRC web site:

"National Insurance contributions count towards the following state benefits:

- the basic State Pension
- the additional State Pension, sometimes called the State Second Pension
- Jobseeker's Allowance - the 'contribution-based' element
- Employment and Support Allowance - the 'contribution-based' element
- Maternity Allowance
- bereavement benefits - Bereavement Allowance, Bereavement Payment and Widowed Parent's Allowance
- Incapacity Benefit."

For those struggling to understand the staggering insanity of the average Argus readers right-wing mind (as highlighted on this page), go to youtube and watch the 'Stanford Prison Experiment'

It explains everything.

When somebody "chooses" to join the public sector workforce surely they realise that they are at the mercy of any Governments decisions.
Those who chose to work in the private sector can move jobs, work their way up through promotion and don't enjoy the security of ANY pension in most cases.
You cannot have your cake and eat it, if you don't like your terms and conditions, come and join the rest of us in our combattive, hard working, 40+ hour a week private sector jobs.

WHAT!!!???

'Brussels' Lucas has actually managed to tear herself away from her beloved EU heartland to graciously descend on the city that elected her (and the rest of her Marxist loons)?

No doubt the Greens will have a welcoming committee and 5-course Vegan lunch prepared for her (at tax payers expense, of course).

I'll now sit back and wait for all the Green party voters/supporters to accuse me of being a troll...

Pork William wrote:
Astonishing!

'5 homes' Lucas has been spotted in Brighton!

No doubt she'll be telling us how plucky and brave the Occupy Brighton protesters are, and inviting hordes of 'travellers' to move to Brighton

I've been a civil servant for 11 years now, after being recruited from the private sector as I was able to offer a set of skills and knowledge that was, and remains, in high demand in the public sector. For the past 18 months, I wake up and face a media frenzy, encouraged by govt Ministers and those who blindly follow them, telling me I'm lazy, over-paid, inefficient, selfish and have a 'gold-plated' pension. I amazed that, if any of this were true, I was recruited in the first place, promoted 5 times in 10 years, and have never once disciplinary proceedings taken against me.

jimbobmaginty wrote:
Bunch of idiots! I see this lot in the same light as the benefit scroungers!! I want more more more! I deserve it! Bla bla bla! Be happy you have a job you inbreads!! If it was down to me id start sacking these complainers and start hiring new employees minus the pension!

Jimbo - It's not inbreads, I think you mean inbreds, meaning people whose parents were related by blood.

Now - to the point. Bloke on R4 this morning who went on strike at 12midnight. His job is on the ferry across the Mersey. His pension was worth £4500 a year and a colleague of his, a female, had a pension worth £2600. He said, and we should all support him, that these are hardly 'gold plated'. There may be some mandarins in whitehall doing a bit better than this, but even they have a right to strike because the conditions under which they were employed are being altered, at a time when the country is still awash with rich people who are not being taxed in a way which reflects their income. Thats what the strikers are really saying. Now stop maligning people unnecessarily, grow up, and help.

Nick Brighton wrote:

Servalan wrote:

worktodeath wrote:

jimbobmaginty wrote:
We give people too much freedom of speech in this country!

I just saw a mass march and all I saw was a bunch of inbread misfits making noise!

Maybe us private sector workers should go out and counter protest against them! Most of us don’t get a pension after all?

Oh no I forgot I have to work!

There's nothing stopping you from taking a pension out. At least most of the public sector do pay into a pension, we will be less of a burden on the state when we do retire.

well all do pay into the state pension, through National Insurance, 12% of your annual salary for most people! (plus your employer's contribution - or for contractors like me, we have to pay that ourselves - that's 24% of my wages already spent on my pension each year!!) Seems like quite a lot to me!

Not all NI contributions go towards the State Pension. From the HMRC web site:

"National Insurance contributions count towards the following state benefits:

- the basic State Pension
- the additional State Pension, sometimes called the State Second Pension
- Jobseeker's Allowance - the 'contribution-based' element
- Employment and Support Allowance - the 'contribution-based' element
- Maternity Allowance
- bereavement benefits - Bereavement Allowance, Bereavement Payment and Widowed Parent's Allowance
- Incapacity Benefit."

yes yes. So, basically, apart from a few months unemployed here and there, pretty much ALL of it will be going on paying my state pension for 18 years as I slowly sink into senility and incontinence.

Pork William wrote:
WHAT!!!???

'Brussels' Lucas has actually managed to tear herself away from her beloved EU heartland to graciously descend on the city that elected her (and the rest of her Marxist loons)?

No doubt the Greens will have a welcoming committee and 5-course Vegan lunch prepared for her (at tax payers expense, of course).

I'll now sit back and wait for all the Green party voters/supporters to accuse me of being a troll...

Perhaps she'll log in to post on the Argus about her UFO Research Centre?

Servalan wrote:

Pork William wrote:
WHAT!!!???

'Brussels' Lucas has actually managed to tear herself away from her beloved EU heartland to graciously descend on the city that elected her (and the rest of her Marxist loons)?

No doubt the Greens will have a welcoming committee and 5-course Vegan lunch prepared for her (at tax payers expense, of course).

I'll now sit back and wait for all the Green party voters/supporters to accuse me of being a troll...

Perhaps she'll log in to post on the Argus about her UFO Research Centre?

I don't know what's worse; her obsessions with UFO's, homeopathy or time-travel

mustaphaLeeko wrote:

mustaphaLeeko wrote:

worktodeath wrote:

Mart2a wrote: They should all be docked min of a days pay even if they are not being paid today and donate £100 to all those who have had to pay additional money out today because of their Northern mentality. We are still expected to pay the nursery school for today even though they cannot provide a service and costing us extra money for an alternative arrangement Get back to work or P45 SIMPLES

Wish I earned £100 a day, less than half that. Some of the local government pension schemes were reformed only 3 years ago, cutting the amount many low paid public sector workers will receive. They now want more cuts and pay more in. My wages have hardly risen in the last 10 years. I struggle to find the payments for my pension but do not want to be claiming from the state when I retire, I will get less than £5,000 from the pension scheme when I do retire. At least I'm making the effort. If this government changes the pension schemes, which it probably will despite all our protests, what's to stop it coming back in another 3 years and changing it again, at least they know we're making a stand. The last government robbed the private pensions of £5 billion, now they want to do the same to the public pensions, at least we're trying to stop them.

Indeed that may be the case for you, but the facts are much different, which the unions don't dispute.. Lord Hutton's report: Average Public sector pension: £7,800 Median Payout £5,600 Office for National Statistics report: Average public sector pay is HIGHER than average private sector pay £466 a wk compared to £388 a week, or £13.54 /hr public sector, £10.06 /hr in private sector! It's also a fact that the average private sector worker in a defined contribution pension scheme has to put in "around £200,000" into his/her pension pot to get the same benefits as the public sector worker due to the vastly more generous employer contributions received in the public sector!!! These facts are not disputed by the unions, perhaps public sector workers should wake up and smell the roses rather than being so greedy when everbody else has to suffer, or are they so much better than us.

oh, and here's the source for the facts in case you think I'm making the figures up!!! http://blogs.channel 4.com/factcheck/why- camerons-right-on-pu blic-sector-pensions /7090

I think the issue of average wage pvte vs. public fits Disreali's comment about 'Lies, damnable lies and statistic' perfectly. I'm not disputing the figures themselves but you need to look at staff profiles to understand why the average is now higher. Once, the civil service used to emply everyone from tea-lady to pool typist to 'Sir Humphry' - this profile would have then matched any large private enterprise. However, with the advent of both privatisation (with the lower-paid service type jobs such as cleaners, security guards, caterers etc being contracted out) and greater use of ICT in the office (thus loosing huge numbers of admin staff, both as typists and as electronic filing replaced physical paper filing), the civil service now has a greater concentration of jobs at the higher end ie what is normally graduate-entry. In other words, all the lower-paid jobs that would pull an average down are now no longer in existance. Thus, the stats are distorted by this effect. Its a bit like comparing the aeverage salaries of those who work at McDonalds (a low/medium skills-base enterprise) with the salaries of an accountancy firm (graduate/profession
al qualifications etc). Its just a case of the old saying about apples and pears. But don't let distortion and misapplication of statistics get in the way of a good rant!!

Hove Actually wrote:
Good job you told us they were on strike otherwise we would not really notice these overpaid "civil servents" were out claiming more and more from the trough that all us poor tax payers have to fill

I can only comment on the Teacher's Pension Scheme (TPS), with information supplied from them. http://www.teachersp
ensions.co.uk/resour
ces/pdf/TPS%20-%20fi
nancial%20note%20Jul
y%202007.pdf

Basically the TPS in 2004 had liabilities exceeding assets of about £3 billion. This would be be addressed by employer contributions of 14.1% and employee contributions of 6.4% over 15 years.

This would still allow the scheme to continue unchanged and teacher's to receive the same pension at the same retirement age as originally planned. i.e. their scheme is solvent and there is no need for the government to raid it to reduce government spending.

"Just because the private sector have been too apathetic to challenge their grivances"

Hmmmm...No Grievance here...only that public sector workers choose to complain whilst, even with these cuts, they still enjoy a better package than the private sector..

Nick Brighton wrote:

Hove Actually wrote:
Good job you told us they were on strike otherwise we would not really notice these overpaid "civil servents" were out claiming more and more from the trough that all us poor tax payers have to fill

I can only comment on the Teacher's Pension Scheme (TPS), with information supplied from them. http://www.teachersp

ensions.co.uk/resour

ces/pdf/TPS%20-%20fi

nancial%20note%20Jul

y%202007.pdf

Basically the TPS in 2004 had liabilities exceeding assets of about £3 billion. This would be be addressed by employer contributions of 14.1% and employee contributions of 6.4% over 15 years.

This would still allow the scheme to continue unchanged and teacher's to receive the same pension at the same retirement age as originally planned. i.e. their scheme is solvent and there is no need for the government to raid it to reduce government spending.

drivel. The "assets" are invested in casino banking to pay for the liabilities. The figures you quote assume the entire casino banking system isn't about to implode as the Euro and US Dollar collapses, but instead the pyramid scheme will continue blisfully unaffected until you retire in 2038. Get a grip!

Servalan wrote:

Nick Brighton wrote:

Hove Actually wrote:
Good job you told us they were on strike otherwise we would not really notice these overpaid "civil servents" were out claiming more and more from the trough that all us poor tax payers have to fill

I can only comment on the Teacher's Pension Scheme (TPS), with information supplied from them. http://www.teachersp


ensions.co.uk/resour


ces/pdf/TPS%20-%20fi


nancial%20note%20Jul


y%202007.pdf

Basically the TPS in 2004 had liabilities exceeding assets of about £3 billion. This would be be addressed by employer contributions of 14.1% and employee contributions of 6.4% over 15 years.

This would still allow the scheme to continue unchanged and teacher's to receive the same pension at the same retirement age as originally planned. i.e. their scheme is solvent and there is no need for the government to raid it to reduce government spending.

drivel. The "assets" are invested in casino banking to pay for the liabilities. The figures you quote assume the entire casino banking system isn't about to implode as the Euro and US Dollar collapses, but instead the pyramid scheme will continue blisfully unaffected until you retire in 2038. Get a grip!

Usual Idiotic comments from Servarlan, many of the public sector pension funds are in surplus and invest in private companies helping to create private jobs

They are in "surplus" based on projected returns from exotic financial instruments used in casino banking, which are supposed to pay coupons over 5, 10, 15, 20 year etc time horizons, ASSUMING THEY DON'T DEFAULT, duh.

i think its good for once people standing up to the Gov bankers started it and not much has happened to them to pay back what lost why should hard working people .

jimbobmaginty wrote:
Bin men are the last people I think should be given rights!
They don’t do an honest day’s work in their lives!
They are one of the laziest workforces in this country!

sweeping generalisation if i ever saw one.
I know a few guys on the bins and did it myslef in the 90's.
Also how do you come to that figure? do you interview them?

The facts are simple:
The vast majority of people who work in the private sector have very little or no pension provision other than the state pension.
The vast majority of those in the publice sector have something a bit better, and they are now being asked to forfeit some of it. SOME of it. not all of it.
Leave bankers, Whitehall mandarins and all top earners out of this. They are a tiny proportion of the working population.
I'm in the private sector, with the tiniest of annual pensions to look forward to. So forgive me if I don't give a flying one about private sector workers losing a bit of their pension.
It was inevitable this would have to happen one day. There is not enough money in the pot.
There is an alternative - of course there is. Increase taxation across the board. But no one wants pay any more tax, and governments are only interested in trying to hang onto power, so will never increase the basic rate of tax.
But that's actually what needs to happen, if we don't want cuts in amenities, wage freezes, etc etc.
A truth no one wants to contemplate.
Sure - tax bankers bonuses, etc. Fine. It's a relatively small amount, will make us all feel better. But it doesn't get to the root of the problem. Not enough money in the public purse.

The point that is being missed is that the "public servants" are not asking for more, but don't want to see cuts in their pensions which they have been PAYING for all of their working lives. The pension contributions are about the equivalent of doubling national insurance payments, so let's have no more of this scrounger nonsense.

Nice of Lucas to stop self-promotion for the day....oh wait she only came to visit her constituency because there were lots of photographers and reporters around.

I presume she'll be claiming expenses for the long travel to her constituency.

Thumper Hove wrote:
Nice of Lucas to stop self-promotion for the day....oh wait she only came to visit her constituency because there were lots of photographers and reporters around.

I presume she'll be claiming expenses for the long travel to her constituency.

Well yes, it does cost a few quid to fly from Brussels to the UK; nice that '5-homes' doesn't have to pay for it!

Absolutely typical of 'Brussels' Lucas to turn up for a bit of self promotion, as you say; she did the same thing when the Occupy Brighton camp started.

Usually, you're more likely to see Bigfoot, the Loch Ness monster and a Dodo in Churchill Square than she '5-home's in the constituency that voted for her...

Servalan wrote:
They are in "surplus" based on projected returns from exotic financial instruments used in casino banking, which are supposed to pay coupons over 5, 10, 15, 20 year etc time horizons, ASSUMING THEY DON'T DEFAULT, duh.

I may as well come out of my pension now then, spend my contributions on living and when I retire I can claim pension credits, rent payments, council tax payments, think it will cost the government more in the long run.

worktodeath wrote:

Servalan wrote:
They are in "surplus" based on projected returns from exotic financial instruments used in casino banking, which are supposed to pay coupons over 5, 10, 15, 20 year etc time horizons, ASSUMING THEY DON'T DEFAULT, duh.

I may as well come out of my pension now then, spend my contributions on living and when I retire I can claim pension credits, rent payments, council tax payments, think it will cost the government more in the long run.

pretty much.

jimbobmaginty wrote:
Bunch of idiots! I see this lot in the same light as the benefit scroungers!!
I want more more more! I deserve it! Bla bla bla!

Be happy you have a job you inbreads!!

If it was down to me id start sacking these complainers and start hiring new employees minus the pension!

What a DIV you are!!!

what a bunch of jokers, anyone who works in the private sector has to find a new job if they dont like pay or conditions, when the public sector workers gonna wake up and live in the real world!!!!!!!! The government should make any strike by public sector workers illegal like the police and prison guards.

gforce4678 wrote:
what a bunch of jokers, anyone who works in the private sector has to find a new job if they dont like pay or conditions, when the public sector workers gonna wake up and live in the real world!!!!!!!! The government should make any strike by public sector workers illegal like the police and prison guards.

Stalin has arrived

pebble counter wrote:

jimbobmaginty wrote:
Bunch of idiots! I see this lot in the same light as the benefit scroungers!! I want more more more! I deserve it! Bla bla bla! Be happy you have a job you inbreads!! If it was down to me id start sacking these complainers and start hiring new employees minus the pension!

Jimbo - It's not inbreads, I think you mean inbreds, meaning people whose parents were related by blood.

Now - to the point. Bloke on R4 this morning who went on strike at 12midnight. His job is on the ferry across the Mersey. His pension was worth £4500 a year and a colleague of his, a female, had a pension worth £2600. He said, and we should all support him, that these are hardly 'gold plated'. There may be some mandarins in whitehall doing a bit better than this, but even they have a right to strike because the conditions under which they were employed are being altered, at a time when the country is still awash with rich people who are not being taxed in a way which reflects their income. Thats what the strikers are really saying. Now stop maligning people unnecessarily, grow up, and help.

Well said.

The Real Phil wrote:
The point that is being missed is that the "public servants" are not asking for more, but don't want to see cuts in their pensions which they have been PAYING for all of their working lives. The pension contributions are about the equivalent of doubling national insurance payments, so let's have no more of this scrounger nonsense.

I think you'll find that it's the private sector taxpayer that has been paying for their pensions.

The way it works is that Govt. generate zero revenue and profit. So what they do is go to the general population and to business and collect taxes from them. The money is deposited into the Treasury. The Treasury then take the money that we the private sector have generated, and give it to Govt. employees, as well as generous perks and pension. Tax paid by public sector workers is actually cash given to them by people like me and returned back to the Treasury. All of which begs the question, if public sector workers are being given a very decent pension in return for very little, why will I be getting a lousy state pension despite paying both my own tax and that of public sector workers?

Busterblister wrote:

The Real Phil wrote:
The point that is being missed is that the "public servants" are not asking for more, but don't want to see cuts in their pensions which they have been PAYING for all of their working lives. The pension contributions are about the equivalent of doubling national insurance payments, so let's have no more of this scrounger nonsense.

I think you'll find that it's the private sector taxpayer that has been paying for their pensions.

The way it works is that Govt. generate zero revenue and profit. So what they do is go to the general population and to business and collect taxes from them. The money is deposited into the Treasury. The Treasury then take the money that we the private sector have generated, and give it to Govt. employees, as well as generous perks and pension. Tax paid by public sector workers is actually cash given to them by people like me and returned back to the Treasury. All of which begs the question, if public sector workers are being given a very decent pension in return for very little, why will I be getting a lousy state pension despite paying both my own tax and that of public sector workers?

If it wasn't for schools & universities the general population would be so thick that they wouldn't get a job, never mind creating any wealth

angrymonkey wrote:
i think its good for once people standing up to the Gov bankers started it and not much has happened to them to pay back what lost why should hard working people .

The bankers are responsible for much of it. But so are the many who have borrowed beyond their means and were never going to pay back what they owe. There was always going to come a point that the economy would nosedive - it's built on the sand of borrowing. Look at the amount of new or nearly new cars on the road here in B&H, a low wage economy. I would hazard a guess that the vast majority are either co. owned or paid for by people incurring significant debt. Clothes, holidays, food, booze, jewellery etc., people don't want to wait and go without until they have saved up for things.....

We've now arrived at the day of reckoning. Successive Govts. have borrowed money we don't have in order to avoid doing what is necessary to restore financial sanity. And of course, to try to ensure that we continue to vote for them.

Whatever happens now, whoever you want to vote for, they can't improve things by borrowing any more. So get used to the cuts.

Grinny wrote:

pebble counter wrote:

jimbobmaginty wrote:
Bunch of idiots! I see this lot in the same light as the benefit scroungers!! I want more more more! I deserve it! Bla bla bla! Be happy you have a job you inbreads!! If it was down to me id start sacking these complainers and start hiring new employees minus the pension!

Jimbo - It's not inbreads, I think you mean inbreds, meaning people whose parents were related by blood.

Now - to the point. Bloke on R4 this morning who went on strike at 12midnight. His job is on the ferry across the Mersey. His pension was worth £4500 a year and a colleague of his, a female, had a pension worth £2600. He said, and we should all support him, that these are hardly 'gold plated'. There may be some mandarins in whitehall doing a bit better than this, but even they have a right to strike because the conditions under which they were employed are being altered, at a time when the country is still awash with rich people who are not being taxed in a way which reflects their income. Thats what the strikers are really saying. Now stop maligning people unnecessarily, grow up, and help.

Well said.

Sorry - what do you mean? That rich people should pay more because they earn more money? Last time I looked someone who pays 40% on £100k pays more than someone who earns £90k or someone who pays 25% of £30k. Or are you talking about introducing a socialist jealousy tax?

Why don't you complain about the self-employed who fail to declare their cash in hand-earnings? Or the people on the social who do nothing to get a job?

worktodeath wrote:

Busterblister wrote:

The Real Phil wrote:
The point that is being missed is that the "public servants" are not asking for more, but don't want to see cuts in their pensions which they have been PAYING for all of their working lives. The pension contributions are about the equivalent of doubling national insurance payments, so let's have no more of this scrounger nonsense.

I think you'll find that it's the private sector taxpayer that has been paying for their pensions.

The way it works is that Govt. generate zero revenue and profit. So what they do is go to the general population and to business and collect taxes from them. The money is deposited into the Treasury. The Treasury then take the money that we the private sector have generated, and give it to Govt. employees, as well as generous perks and pension. Tax paid by public sector workers is actually cash given to them by people like me and returned back to the Treasury. All of which begs the question, if public sector workers are being given a very decent pension in return for very little, why will I be getting a lousy state pension despite paying both my own tax and that of public sector workers?

If it wasn't for schools & universities the general population would be so thick that they wouldn't get a job, never mind creating any wealth

Plenty of wealthy people didn't go to university or did poorly at school. Many graduates are now failing to get any type of job.

Astonished at the lack of knowledge wrote:
These answers are disappointing and slightly insane? Do people even understand what the public sector is or what it does??? I am a public sector worker, I get paid very little, I have not had a pay rise in 4yrs. I pay my taxes like anyone else. I live in a one bedroom flat. I work long hours, mostly unpaid. I take my work home with me because when you work in the public sector it’s not easy to turn your head off at 5pm. I have no opportunity of promotion because the public sector is working on a shoe string as it is and I am one of millions of Public Sector workers in that position. In the main to be a public sector worker is to take on a vocation. Most of the people I have come across in the Public Sector are devoted, educated, caring people trying to make a difference with very little money at their disposal and now we are to sacrifice our pensions as well as continue our pay freeze. I am behind this strike 100% even if all it achieves is to teach the common person what exactly the public sector do!!!!!!!

Welcome to the real world of work. Most of us give that level of dedication whether in our own businesses or in the private sector.

Many of us in the Private Sector are also as 'caring, devoted and educated'- it's not just the default character of a Public Sector worker- if at all.

We haven't earned any more just because there's inflation. We have sacrificed our pensions (or never had any in the first place) to help pay down this government debt. Why should you, Public Sector Worker, not make some sacrifice as well.

lindi_lmf wrote:

Astonished at the lack of knowledge wrote:
These answers are disappointing and slightly insane? Do people even understand what the public sector is or what it does??? I am a public sector worker, I get paid very little, I have not had a pay rise in 4yrs. I pay my taxes like anyone else. I live in a one bedroom flat. I work long hours, mostly unpaid. I take my work home with me because when you work in the public sector it’s not easy to turn your head off at 5pm. I have no opportunity of promotion because the public sector is working on a shoe string as it is and I am one of millions of Public Sector workers in that position. In the main to be a public sector worker is to take on a vocation. Most of the people I have come across in the Public Sector are devoted, educated, caring people trying to make a difference with very little money at their disposal and now we are to sacrifice our pensions as well as continue our pay freeze. I am behind this strike 100% even if all it achieves is to teach the common person what exactly the public sector do!!!!!!!

Welcome to the real world of work. Most of us give that level of dedication whether in our own businesses or in the private sector.

Many of us in the Private Sector are also as 'caring, devoted and educated'- it's not just the default character of a Public Sector worker- if at all.

We haven't earned any more just because there's inflation. We have sacrificed our pensions (or never had any in the first place) to help pay down this government debt. Why should you, Public Sector Worker, not make some sacrifice as well.

There's plenty of room for more public sector cuts. Of 7m public sector workers, only 2m are what could be called frontline.

History of strikes in the UK: 1926 General Strike, failed and jobs losses followed. Coal Miners' Stirke, failed and pits and industry closed because they became uncompetitive. 2011 strikes will fail and public sector job losses will follow.

lindi_lmf wrote:

Astonished at the lack of knowledge wrote:
These answers are disappointing and slightly insane? Do people even understand what the public sector is or what it does??? I am a public sector worker, I get paid very little, I have not had a pay rise in 4yrs. I pay my taxes like anyone else. I live in a one bedroom flat. I work long hours, mostly unpaid. I take my work home with me because when you work in the public sector it’s not easy to turn your head off at 5pm. I have no opportunity of promotion because the public sector is working on a shoe string as it is and I am one of millions of Public Sector workers in that position. In the main to be a public sector worker is to take on a vocation. Most of the people I have come across in the Public Sector are devoted, educated, caring people trying to make a difference with very little money at their disposal and now we are to sacrifice our pensions as well as continue our pay freeze. I am behind this strike 100% even if all it achieves is to teach the common person what exactly the public sector do!!!!!!!

Welcome to the real world of work. Most of us give that level of dedication whether in our own businesses or in the private sector.

Many of us in the Private Sector are also as 'caring, devoted and educated'- it's not just the default character of a Public Sector worker- if at all.

We haven't earned any more just because there's inflation. We have sacrificed our pensions (or never had any in the first place) to help pay down this government debt. Why should you, Public Sector Worker, not make some sacrifice as well.

We are making sacrifices, 2 years pay freeze followed by 2 years 1% rise, with inflation running about 5% that's about 15% to 20% wage cut over 4 years, this we're not complaining about but when you have to pay more for pension, work longer and get less it's a bit much. I don't mind if it was 1 or 2 of the above but it's a triple whamy.
On top of that 710,000 jobs will go in the public sector in the next few years, this could affect any one. No wonder the economy has got worse with millions not spending money for fear of
losing jobs, this is turn affects company profits and taxes which is why this government is now facing even more borrowing.
They were warned too much too soon

worktodeath wrote:

lindi_lmf wrote:

Astonished at the lack of knowledge wrote:
These answers are disappointing and slightly insane? Do people even understand what the public sector is or what it does??? I am a public sector worker, I get paid very little, I have not had a pay rise in 4yrs. I pay my taxes like anyone else. I live in a one bedroom flat. I work long hours, mostly unpaid. I take my work home with me because when you work in the public sector it’s not easy to turn your head off at 5pm. I have no opportunity of promotion because the public sector is working on a shoe string as it is and I am one of millions of Public Sector workers in that position. In the main to be a public sector worker is to take on a vocation. Most of the people I have come across in the Public Sector are devoted, educated, caring people trying to make a difference with very little money at their disposal and now we are to sacrifice our pensions as well as continue our pay freeze. I am behind this strike 100% even if all it achieves is to teach the common person what exactly the public sector do!!!!!!!

Welcome to the real world of work. Most of us give that level of dedication whether in our own businesses or in the private sector.

Many of us in the Private Sector are also as 'caring, devoted and educated'- it's not just the default character of a Public Sector worker- if at all.

We haven't earned any more just because there's inflation. We have sacrificed our pensions (or never had any in the first place) to help pay down this government debt. Why should you, Public Sector Worker, not make some sacrifice as well.

We are making sacrifices, 2 years pay freeze followed by 2 years 1% rise, with inflation running about 5% that's about 15% to 20% wage cut over 4 years, this we're not complaining about but when you have to pay more for pension, work longer and get less it's a bit much. I don't mind if it was 1 or 2 of the above but it's a triple whamy.
On top of that 710,000 jobs will go in the public sector in the next few years, this could affect any one. No wonder the economy has got worse with millions not spending money for fear of
losing jobs, this is turn affects company profits and taxes which is why this government is now facing even more borrowing.
They were warned too much too soon

ditto non Public Sector.

Instead of complaining and disrupting the general workforce, let's all knuckle down and get on with the job of helping reduce government/treasury debt.

The Public Sector has become very bloated and we need to generate the private sector jobs that fuel the economy. This will only happen when we pay down our debt and are able to borrow more cheaply as a country.

Reporter Nick Owen live steamed her speech.

Takr note SmashEDO - you don't need to cause trouble and assault the police to protest!

The protestors in Worthing, went for a little walk, then buggered off to the pub at lunchtime. All very civilised and not much change from a normal working day really.

St Peters wrote:
The protestors in Worthing, went for a little walk, then buggered off to the pub at lunchtime. All very civilised and not much change from a normal working day really.

Typical of public sector workers.Better conditions than private sector.Guaranteed employment and definately a better pension than private sector workers who will be relying on the state pension.Maybe if you gave 5% of your pensions to the poor private sector workers we might have some sympathy.Not much but maybe some.

I can't believe this has been called a 'peaceful protest'. It certainly wasn't peaceful from my office where all we could hear was whistles & shouting all morning leaving us unable to work. As if having to pay my taxes for this bunch to have a day off wasn't bad enough, I've now lost a mornings business.

I just can't help thinking how lovely it would be to have a pension to complain about.

These people are lucky to have a job in the current climate, and a lot of them even get the luxury of doing a job they love, with a great benefits package to boot (compared to the majority of us in the private sector). Yet they think they have the right to complain?

I'm horrified that our poor children have to suffer with so many of these people as their educators. Disgraceful.

Morpheus wrote:
History of strikes in the UK: 1926 General Strike, failed and jobs losses followed. Coal Miners' Stirke, failed and pits and industry closed because they became uncompetitive. 2011 strikes will fail and public sector job losses will follow.

A little correction to the 1984/5 miners strike - Thatcher spent an estimated £6 billion to defeat the miners, bought imported Polish (part of the USSR at the time, I believe!) coal that was state-subsidised, and made it a personal issue. That is the problem we have now - the last stronghold of Trade Union organisation is the public sector, so it must be defeated by this government, no matter what the cost.
So, if you read your history properly, why is it that the private sector, in general, has lower pensions? Answer, because trade unionism is much weaker there, after years of de-industrialisation in this country - we have allowed manufacturing to be smashed and rely on banking and service industries.
This is a fight for all of us - we must not allow them to take us down to the lowest common denominator. The real debate should be how we bring up private sector pensions. I work with both sectors, and provision in the private sector is a national disgrace.

Time to fight back!

I vote for teachers to work to rule.

No after school clubs, no breaskfast clubs and no homework clubs. No unpaid work EVER!

This would mean that YOUR children would be home from school at 3:30pm. Who will look after them? a carer? you? or parents? surely this would increase YOUR costs.

We would also require more teachers, this would be due to the excessive form filling, planning and marking required. If teachers didn't take this home, this would have to be done during school hours! which WILL reduce the hours a teacher can teach.

I'm not a teacher and wouldn't want to be. It’s within the top 10 of stressful jobs in the country. I can’t think of anything worse than spending all day turning your children in to educated adults with NO gratitude whatsoever.

Hove Actually wrote:

The Gnome wrote:
Hove Actually maintains the anti-PSW lobby's fine tradition of poor literacy. Perhaps an overpaid civil "servent" (or teacher) could help...

So your point is a poorly educated person working hard should pay the pension of the teacher who failed him whilst not being able to afford one himself.
And that is why you will lose and it doesen't matter how long you strike for, ask Arthur Scargill

well said!

worktodeath wrote:

jimbobmaginty wrote:
We give people too much freedom of speech in this country!

I just saw a mass march and all I saw was a bunch of inbread misfits making noise!

Maybe us private sector workers should go out and counter protest against them! Most of us don’t get a pension after all?

Oh no I forgot I have to work!

There's nothing stopping you from taking a pension out. At least most of the public sector do pay into a pension, we will be less of a burden on the state when we do retire.

a lot of people would love to pay into a pension, but they dont have cushty jobs in the public sector. how does redundancy sound to you? no? minimum wage then? no? awww c'mon, beggars cant be choosers.

Made In Sussex wrote:
"Just because the private sector have been too apathetic to challenge their grivances"

Hmmmm...No Grievance here...only that public sector workers choose to complain whilst, even with these cuts, they still enjoy a better package than the private sector..

They aren't complaining they are fighting for it. The same way workers have had to fight for things for centuries. You have weekends off? Holidays? Healthy Working Environment? Protective equipment? Employment rights? You think business owners just gave these to workers out of the kindness of their hearts? Workers have had to fight through their unions for everything they have got. Public Sector workers are still strong emough to do this - just! I think the whingeing is coming from private sector workers because they are the ones being exploited by business owners who are getting rich by the fruits of workers labours. Instead of trying to drag down public sector workers for fighting to maintain their terms and conditions, private sector workers should be fighting to improve their own conditions.

Nick-! wrote:
I vote for teachers to work to rule.

No after school clubs, no breaskfast clubs and no homework clubs. No unpaid work EVER!

This would mean that YOUR children would be home from school at 3:30pm. Who will look after them? a carer? you? or parents? surely this would increase YOUR costs.

We would also require more teachers, this would be due to the excessive form filling, planning and marking required. If teachers didn't take this home, this would have to be done during school hours! which WILL reduce the hours a teacher can teach.

I'm not a teacher and wouldn't want to be. It’s within the top 10 of stressful jobs in the country. I can’t think of anything worse than spending all day turning your children in to educated adults with NO gratitude whatsoever.

I vote on teachers getting 20 days a year holiday like everyone else.

Just a few points.
The Public Sector is just what it should be. The public pay for the services and the Public are not always getting what they want, ( notice I didn't say deserve). It might be correct to state that the Public Sector should not get this or that by way of renumeration, especially when the rest of the working populace are failing to get pay rises etc.
Try looking a little deeper for example the teachers always take a beating because of their long holidays. Why? They're not paid for them. Their contracts state that they work for 195 days. However their salaries are paid over 12 months so they can't claim any benefits during the long "holidays". So I guess they don't get any "holidays" in the sense that workers in the Private Sector might understand. Workers in the Private Sector will get their holidays as part of a pay structure plus they get State holidays which the teachers have within the time of their unpaid "holiday". (by the way I am not a teacher)
The pension that the Public Sector gets is never compared properly. My understanding is that their
pensions are paid from a contribution of 6% of their salary as a condition of emlployment. Also it is never mentioned that Public Sector pensions are opted out of the Second tier of the State Pension. Thus this second level of pension which all the Private Sector get is never discussed in relation to the argument. Thus for both the Public and Private Sectors a large part of the pension is exactly the same, just coming from a different direction. Now the extra pension (and I bet it's not that great) comes from the fact that the employee pays 6% of salary. Now if all workers paid 6% of their gross salary into a private pension plan and made the annual contributions increase as their salary increased etc then all workers would get a good pension on retirement.
Trouble is most people want to moan and play the blame game and that's exactly what your leaders want. Divide, fail to educate and then let the sheep run round in circles.
Public Sector workers need to stop shouting that they pay their taxes, because it seems a bit rich to say they pay tax when all they are doing is giving back to the State some of the money that the State gave them in the first place from the revenue generated by the Private Sector and trade etc. Although the Government could just print the virtual money or borrow from the bank to create an illusion of prosperity ( oh no we've tried that and we seem to be in debt).
But the Bank Of England should help us. Well it could if it belonged to the people but it doesn't. It's a private concern hiding under the illusion of State ownership. There you go another illusion.
Oh well if you've got problems over there we've got 'em here. There's a big grizzly running around somewhere here and he ain't that freiendly.

So the strike came and went.No real hyped disruptions then.Maybe we could lose a million or so of the pen pushers /facebooking/twitter
ing basically the what should I do know clerks and fairy tale positions in local government on hefty salaries.The answer is to Increase the pay of the people that really matter/hospital staff/ambulance/care
rs/police/teachers(3
months holiday a year.not bad eh)
Stil we need good teachers.Underline the good.

Hove Actually wrote:
Good job you told us they were on strike otherwise we would not really notice these overpaid "civil servents" were out claiming more and more from the trough that all us poor tax payers have to fill

Overpaid!?!? Who are you kidding?!
The average director of a FTSE 100 company has a final salary pension worth £3.6m or £174,963 a year, while the average occupational pension generally is £9,500 a year and the average public service pension is £7,800 a year. That's the real unfairness.

And public sector workers ARE tax payers TOO!!! Maybe you should be directing your scorn at the government who fail to tax the bankers who got us into this mess in the first place......

jimbobmaginty wrote:
Bunch of idiots! I see this lot in the same light as the benefit scroungers!!
I want more more more! I deserve it! Bla bla bla!

Be happy you have a job you inbreads!!

If it was down to me id start sacking these complainers and start hiring new employees minus the pension!

You mean "inbreds" If you're going to be insulting - at least get it right!

We pay in to out pension - it's not a handout! How is a Nurse, Teacher, Classroom assistant, binman/woman, Social Worker,(the list goes on) anything like a benefit scrounger?!?!
Its the bankers that got us into this mess - direct your venom at them!

jimbobmaginty wrote:
Bin men are the last people I think should be given rights!
They don’t do an honest day’s work in their lives!
They are one of the laziest workforces in this country!

Jimbob - why don't you do something useful - like educate yourself on the matters instead of trying to make provocative remarks, its just a sad way to attention seek - pathetic

Joshiman wrote:
So the strike came and went.No real hyped disruptions then.Maybe we could lose a million or so of the pen pushers /facebooking/twitter

ing basically the what should I do know clerks and fairy tale positions in local government on hefty salaries.The answer is to Increase the pay of the people that really matter/hospital staff/ambulance/care

rs/police/teachers(3

months holiday a year.not bad eh)
Stil we need good teachers.Underline the good.

I Agree

Kate234 wrote:

Nick-! wrote: I vote for teachers to work to rule. No after school clubs, no breaskfast clubs and no homework clubs. No unpaid work EVER! This would mean that YOUR children would be home from school at 3:30pm. Who will look after them? a carer? you? or parents? surely this would increase YOUR costs. We would also require more teachers, this would be due to the excessive form filling, planning and marking required. If teachers didn't take this home, this would have to be done during school hours! which WILL reduce the hours a teacher can teach. I'm not a teacher and wouldn't want to be. It’s within the top 10 of stressful jobs in the country. I can’t think of anything worse than spending all day turning your children in to educated adults with NO gratitude whatsoever.

I vote on teachers getting 20 days a year holiday like everyone else.

I think you'll find it's 28 days (5.6 weeks).

Teachers work between 45 to 60 hours per week. Private sector is generally 35 to 40 hours.

The main thrust against public sector workers here appears to be 1) That it's not fair they get better pensions than many in the private sector. 2) Their pensions cost too much.

If public sector pensions are better than those in the private sector, then that is an argument to improve private sector provisions through regulation and the reintroduction of laws to prevent companies decimating their pension funds for the benefit of company directors. It is not an argument against maintaining public sector pensions at their current level!

That's like arguing that if you are mugged, then I should be mugged too because otherwise it's not fair.

Point number 2- when all the private sector workers on here complaining about having no pension or a very small pension retire and can't survive, what do you think will happen? They will claim pension credits (or whatever the equivalent will be), housing and council tax benefit. In other words they will be totally dependent on state support! So reducing the pensions of those who are paying into them in the hope they can support themselves is totally self defeating, as it increases the burden on the state years down the line. But the government don't care about the longterm, they're only looking to the next election.

I would urge all those criticising public sector workers to look at the facts themselves, and not just rely on the latest kneejerk sensationalism published by sections of the media.

And just to clarify- people striking do not get paid; public sector pensions are not free, employees currently pay a minimum of 6% every month. I have encountered both these myths whilst talking to those who oppose the strikes.

Lewesroadresident wrote:
The main thrust against public sector workers here appears to be 1) That it's not fair they get better pensions than many in the private sector. 2) Their pensions cost too much.

If public sector pensions are better than those in the private sector, then that is an argument to improve private sector provisions through regulation and the reintroduction of laws to prevent companies decimating their pension funds for the benefit of company directors. It is not an argument against maintaining public sector pensions at their current level!

That's like arguing that if you are mugged, then I should be mugged too because otherwise it's not fair.

Point number 2- when all the private sector workers on here complaining about having no pension or a very small pension retire and can't survive, what do you think will happen? They will claim pension credits (or whatever the equivalent will be), housing and council tax benefit. In other words they will be totally dependent on state support! So reducing the pensions of those who are paying into them in the hope they can support themselves is totally self defeating, as it increases the burden on the state years down the line. But the government don't care about the longterm, they're only looking to the next election.

I would urge all those criticising public sector workers to look at the facts themselves, and not just rely on the latest kneejerk sensationalism published by sections of the media.

And just to clarify- people striking do not get paid; public sector pensions are not free, employees currently pay a minimum of 6% every month. I have encountered both these myths whilst talking to those who oppose the strikes.

oooohhhhhhh. sorry...so its the private sector workers fault now is it, seeing as we will be sponging off the state when we retire.....remember though...we pay for your pensions...if we didnt have to, maybe we could afford our own...NO SYMPATHY WHATSOEVER.if i had children who were as spoilt as you lot i would STOP their pocket money, not just ask that they contribute towards it. times are changing...the country is pretty much bankrupt. taxes are through the roof, earnings are down...its hard for everyone, so EVERYONE needs to do their bit...including public sector workers.

I do wish the temperature of the debate ws reduced it doesn't help.Research the facts, not repeat the news of the masses.
If you hadn't all realised by now that you the general public are expected to pay for everything remorselesly. All the companies owned by the people were sold off under the illusion of shared ownership, but the people already owned them.
That means there was a reduction in revenue from those companies as the monies now go to private concerns. Could be insurance companies or offshore concerns submitting lower tax returns etc. You continue to pay subsidies to some concerns.
So you pay more money for utilities etc and less to the government.
You now carry the debt and concern, but without the benefit.
All your insurance policies now carry an insurance tax as well as VAT. This is an extra hidden charge on you to pay whatever.
Your pension policies are now taxed within the plans in a subtle way so that you get less from the savings fund and the goverenment gets more of your money.
Gold was sold off so that your money is no longer protected by a tangible asset. Your money is now guaranteed by bond issues which you the general public pay for. Good isn't it,you now cover your own government debt. ie you pay. All worthless.
As I said earlier what are the true statements of pension parity not rhetoric? Guess the news "reporters" or should we say readers don't know or don't understand what they are reading.
If anything can be sold to make a "buck" or two for a few people then it will be sold.
Meanwhile we continue to bicker and the illusion develops even further. It's great really.
Still no one has commented on the true cost of Public Sector Pensions and to those who shout "we pay" better remember you are all paying for all State Pensions and there are two.

Lostandaway wrote:
I do wish the temperature of the debate ws reduced it doesn't help.Research the facts, not repeat the news of the masses.
If you hadn't all realised by now that you the general public are expected to pay for everything remorselesly. All the companies owned by the people were sold off under the illusion of shared ownership, but the people already owned them.
That means there was a reduction in revenue from those companies as the monies now go to private concerns. Could be insurance companies or offshore concerns submitting lower tax returns etc. You continue to pay subsidies to some concerns.
So you pay more money for utilities etc and less to the government.
You now carry the debt and concern, but without the benefit.
All your insurance policies now carry an insurance tax as well as VAT. This is an extra hidden charge on you to pay whatever.
Your pension policies are now taxed within the plans in a subtle way so that you get less from the savings fund and the goverenment gets more of your money.
Gold was sold off so that your money is no longer protected by a tangible asset. Your money is now guaranteed by bond issues which you the general public pay for. Good isn't it,you now cover your own government debt. ie you pay. All worthless.
As I said earlier what are the true statements of pension parity not rhetoric? Guess the news "reporters" or should we say readers don't know or don't understand what they are reading.
If anything can be sold to make a "buck" or two for a few people then it will be sold.
Meanwhile we continue to bicker and the illusion develops even further. It's great really.
Still no one has commented on the true cost of Public Sector Pensions and to those who shout "we pay" better remember you are all paying for all State Pensions and there are two.

ok gotta be honest, you raise some good points, and its true EVERYONE pays taxes (or should anyway), however it is also true, that many in the private sector simply cannot get a pension, other than a state pension, and its not their fault. to hear public sector workers complain that they have to contribute a bit more, and work for longer is offensive. we ALL have to work longer, its not just public sector jobs where the retirement age has gone up, and at least you get a pension. i realise you have to contribute, you always have done, and for it to go up must hurt the pocket somewhat, but we're all in the same boat, and until such times as the public sector contributes to my non-state pension, which, for clarification, i dont have, i still have no sympathy.

@ lostandaway
sorry...started addressing the public sector masses in response to your comment...didnt mean to imply you are public sector.

Thankyou for that Berty and I'm not.
Here's a point: large companies were offering Final Salary schemes to all of their workers as a matter of employment. ie don't pay into the the pension then don't get the the job.
Now we are all told that these schemes can't be maintained on cost grounds, but I'm not so sure. Many of these companies would have to make contribution to the funds as the years progressed,but directors and share holders on the advice of their actuaries could take contribution holidays implying that the apparent profit taking could be increased. I suspect this may indeed have happened but you would have to delve into comapny accounts. Now ask yourself who controls the large companies and the shares. In fact many of the private pension funds of these large companies are some of the wealthiest investors and I guess they all share similar employees at the top. "Is there something burning?"
I feel sorry for the small businees where everyone works **** hard to stay afloat and most of these businesses are the ones which make the "real" economy turn.
Some of these concerns have owners and employees who pay into pension funds then along comes a certain chancellor who decided to change tax status within the pension funds and guess who lost out in many cases. So the man/woman can't afford a good pension.
I would still like to find the "real" cost of Public Sector Pensions and the effect of their opt out of the second tier of the State Pension. Then we could have an informed debate on a pro-rata basis of cost and affordability between the two sectors. At the moment I feel we are being "set up"as if we were in a fairground.

i do agree both sectors are being played against each other, probably to divert attention from those who are really in control. one suspects the murdochs and the camerons of this world. i'm not one for demonstration, but maybe "occupy" are on to something.

one final anti strike rant which i almost forgot lol...
there are literally millions of unemployed in this country, not all of them are benefit cheats, and would love your job, as it comes, pension schemes and all. in these uncertain times, can't you all just be thankful you actually have jobs to go to???

Now imagine my surprise when I look at the posts and would you believe. In the midst of all that's happening and the worry we all share in such times it's nice to know that a computer has a sense of moral values.
It has substituted a set of asterisks for a four letter word beginning with D.
Now that sure is sweet. I'm off to see if I can spot our grizzly. Might actually get an adrenaline rush.

I understand the frustration of the public sector workers, but at least they have a voice.

I did not have a company pension so I took out my own private pension and over 35 years paid into to the fund thinking that at retirement I would be able to live reasonably.

During the recession my pension fund lost over £35,000 and that has diminished my monthly payments. I have a friend that has lost nearly £55,000!

Many other people are in my position and we do not have a voice or anyone to speak out for us.

So I think the public sector worker should like the rest of us in the private sector who have taken maybe an even larger hit on out pensions to put up and shut up

If the private sector workers who think that public sector workers have it good and have better terms and conditions of employment than private sector workers and much better pensions, why did they choose to work in the private sector themselves rather than take a public sector job? Until a few year ago there were masses of public sector jobs available doing all kinds of work from specialist technical and professional jobs, to clerical office jobs, to health and education jobs through to manual labour jobs, and there is still some recruitment today. Why didn't the moaners just join the 'gravy train' themselves if they thought it was so much better?

sussexram40 wrote:
If the private sector workers who think that public sector workers have it good and have better terms and conditions of employment than private sector workers and much better pensions, why did they choose to work in the private sector themselves rather than take a public sector job? Until a few year ago there were masses of public sector jobs available doing all kinds of work from specialist technical and professional jobs, to clerical office jobs, to health and education jobs through to manual labour jobs, and there is still some recruitment today. Why didn't the moaners just join the 'gravy train' themselves if they thought it was so much better?

do me a favour...so there's a public sector job for everyone is there??? and maybe some of us dont want a desk job, or care work. some of us have a trade, and are proud of our skills....also....i think you will find that the only thing private sector workers are complaining about, is not their jobs, or pensions, or lack of, but the way the public sector seem to think they have a god given right to perks.

Perks like company cars, private health insurance, annual bonuses? I worked in public sector for some years and the pension was the only perk you got. I know quite a few people in same profession as mine - some worked in private sector, some in public sector. Back then the private sector people made more money and mostly had company cars. I know that isn't the case today and I know people in both sectors are feeling the pinch but in the long boom years the private sector did very well compared with the public sector. It's all swings and roundabouts really. Right now the public sector terms look good but if the economy booms again in 10 or 15 years, I expect many private sector people will be doing the best. I've got a public sector pension, it's not massive or gold plated, but it's £11,000 a year and I turned down several job offers at more money from private firms in my career because the pension and security was important to me. Besides, if someone entered into a contract for something and then the other side tried to change the terms half way through the deal, I don't think too many people would think that was acceptable or right.

Berty_McJock wrote:

Lewesroadresident wrote: The main thrust against public sector workers here appears to be 1) That it's not fair they get better pensions than many in the private sector. 2) Their pensions cost too much. If public sector pensions are better than those in the private sector, then that is an argument to improve private sector provisions through regulation and the reintroduction of laws to prevent companies decimating their pension funds for the benefit of company directors. It is not an argument against maintaining public sector pensions at their current level! That's like arguing that if you are mugged, then I should be mugged too because otherwise it's not fair. Point number 2- when all the private sector workers on here complaining about having no pension or a very small pension retire and can't survive, what do you think will happen? They will claim pension credits (or whatever the equivalent will be), housing and council tax benefit. In other words they will be totally dependent on state support! So reducing the pensions of those who are paying into them in the hope they can support themselves is totally self defeating, as it increases the burden on the state years down the line. But the government don't care about the longterm, they're only looking to the next election. I would urge all those criticising public sector workers to look at the facts themselves, and not just rely on the latest kneejerk sensationalism published by sections of the media. And just to clarify- people striking do not get paid; public sector pensions are not free, employees currently pay a minimum of 6% every month. I have encountered both these myths whilst talking to those who oppose the strikes.

oooohhhhhhh. sorry...so its the private sector workers fault now is it, seeing as we will be sponging off the state when we retire.....remember though...we pay for your pensions...if we didnt have to, maybe we could afford our own...NO SYMPATHY WHATSOEVER.if i had children who were as spoilt as you lot i would STOP their pocket money, not just ask that they contribute towards it. times are changing...the country is pretty much bankrupt. taxes are through the roof, earnings are down...its hard for everyone, so EVERYONE needs to do their bit...including public sector workers.

Where did I say it was the private sectors fault? I was pointing out that over a lifetime it is probable that a similar amount of taxpayers money will be spent to support those in the public sector and those in the private sector.

Public sector workers DO pay into their pensions, often a lot more than the private sector. And they are doing their bit- 2 year wage freeze followed by 2 year cap on increases at 1%, redundancies hitting 710,000 by 2015, etc etc.

You have been so easily manipulated by those in power you should be ashamed. They've convinced you it's all about public vs private. Lower income workers in both sectors are paying the price- company directors, bankers, MPs etc are carrying on as before, receiving huge wage increases and bonuses, and all you can do is snipe and moan 'it's not fair' like a child, at those that have the balls to fight & defend what they already have (not asking for more), instead of looking at those who not only helped to cause the current situation, but who are unaffected by it. Grow up.

I'm a nurse and found it funny how the public are so full of "oh you nurses, you're wonderful, I couldn't do what you do" etc etc until we dare to fight for our meagre pensions which we pay for (without any choice in the matter). Some people say we're bleating, well I bet you would too if you were in our shoes. I'm sorry for all the parents who have had to take days off work to look after thier kids when the teachers are striking but that is not suffcient reason to oppose the strike, you need to think about the wider issue.