Please listen say Brighton and Hove musicians (From The Argus)

"I know cuts have to be made but they must be able to make it somewhere else.” And this is the problem in a nutshell. One man's waste of money is anothers critical service

Spanners I'd say the problem was one of priorities not simply balancing one thing against the next. The council subsidy to the music service is around 200k. The budget earmarked for IT infrastructure development is 5.5 million. Myself I'd much rather they spent money on services like the music services that have real outcomes for people and young people. This service had been earmarked for the complete phasing out of its meagre subsidy which impacts on so many kids and young people. Doesn't make any sense. Cuts are inevitable but to completely phase out support to a service that has such a reach is senseless.

Seagull65 wrote:
Spanners I'd say the problem was one of priorities not simply balancing one thing against the next. The council subsidy to the music service is around 200k. The budget earmarked for IT infrastructure development is 5.5 million. Myself I'd much rather they spent money on services like the music services that have real outcomes for people and young people. This service had been earmarked for the complete phasing out of its meagre subsidy which impacts on so many kids and young people. Doesn't make any sense. Cuts are inevitable but to completely phase out support to a service that has such a reach is senseless.

But they do have ordinary music lessons as a part of the curriculum. Its a bit like having PE lessons, then the LA paying for horse riding lessons on top. Sometimes parents need to dip in their pockets. People struggle to pay their council tax, they don't need to be paying for keyboard or drum lessons for pushy parents kids

george smith that old horse riding comparison eh? It's nothing like the tenuous and labored analogy you make at all by any stretch of the imagination. How many people are involved in horse riding? Do you see vast swathes of youth involved in horse riding? No. Do you see vast swathes of youth getting into music? Yes. Many young people share interests in music, getting together to play, write songs, busk, the list goes on. Music is like an alternative youth service giving many young people a creative and purposeful outlet be it playing in a band, jazz, orchestra and so on. This should be celebrated and encouraged and the small sum of 200k is a mere drop in the ocean compared to what is spent in other less valid areas. Your analogy is frankly ridiculous and desperate!

The council and government also gives money to other festival type events and sport which enable many people to come together and participate in something special and the music service should not be any different.

Seagull65 wrote:
george smith that old horse riding comparison eh? It's nothing like the tenuous and labored analogy you make at all by any stretch of the imagination. How many people are involved in horse riding? Do you see vast swathes of youth involved in horse riding? No. Do you see vast swathes of youth getting into music? Yes. Many young people share interests in music, getting together to play, write songs, busk, the list goes on. Music is like an alternative youth service giving many young people a creative and purposeful outlet be it playing in a band, jazz, orchestra and so on. This should be celebrated and encouraged and the small sum of 200k is a mere drop in the ocean compared to what is spent in other less valid areas. Your analogy is frankly ridiculous and desperate! The council and government also gives money to other festival type events and sport which enable many people to come together and participate in something special and the music service should not be any different.

Equestrian Statistics | British Horse Societywww.bhs.org.u
k/About_Us/Equestria
n_Statistics.aspxCac
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16 Feb 2011 – 4.3 million people have ridden in the previous 12 months (that is, seven ... 31 percent of horse riders are aged under 16, 18 percent are aged 16 to 24 .... as well as many social and pleasure rides to encourage non-members. ...

Disabled childrens riding centre: The Diamonds
The Diamond Centre is a registered charity and receives no government or local authority funding. It currently costs over a quarter of a million pounds each year to run the Centre and we have to rely on fees, fundraising events, donations and legacies in order to survive.

george smith wrote:

Seagull65 wrote:
george smith that old horse riding comparison eh? It's nothing like the tenuous and labored analogy you make at all by any stretch of the imagination. How many people are involved in horse riding? Do you see vast swathes of youth involved in horse riding? No. Do you see vast swathes of youth getting into music? Yes. Many young people share interests in music, getting together to play, write songs, busk, the list goes on. Music is like an alternative youth service giving many young people a creative and purposeful outlet be it playing in a band, jazz, orchestra and so on. This should be celebrated and encouraged and the small sum of 200k is a mere drop in the ocean compared to what is spent in other less valid areas. Your analogy is frankly ridiculous and desperate! The council and government also gives money to other festival type events and sport which enable many people to come together and participate in something special and the music service should not be any different.

Equestrian Statistics | British Horse Societywww.bhs.org.u

k/About_Us/Equestria

n_Statistics.aspxCac

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16 Feb 2011 – 4.3 million people have ridden in the previous 12 months (that is, seven ... 31 percent of horse riders are aged under 16, 18 percent are aged 16 to 24 .... as well as many social and pleasure rides to encourage non-members. ...

george smith The Diamonds disabled children's riding centre looks like a fantastic place and I am full of admiration for the obviously valuable work they do. I'd be more than happy to see some of my council taxes go to such organisations. The problem is that the politicians have us arguing amongst ourselves when we should be challenging other expenditure. The proposal to completely cut one of it's major funding streams over a short period puts a worthy service at serious risk.

Also to go back to the comparison I think you are confusing what the music subsidy goes towards here. It goes someway towards subsiding those from poorer socio-economic backgrounds in being able to afford music lessons. It also helps fund some of the music service's work with kids with disabilities or from disadvantaged backgrounds. You seem to think it pays for all children to learn an instrument and therefore make the comparison with all children learning to ride horses.

Yes the centre you highlight is just as worthy and I agree should get some help if it is struggling to sustain its worthy work. Imagine if the centre suddenly found out one of its major donors was pulling all funding over a short period of time. It would put at risk all the brilliant work your centre has obviously built up over a long time. If this were to happen and I hope it never does you can count on me to support you in what ever way I could.

george smith wrote:

Seagull65 wrote:
Spanners I'd say the problem was one of priorities not simply balancing one thing against the next. The council subsidy to the music service is around 200k. The budget earmarked for IT infrastructure development is 5.5 million. Myself I'd much rather they spent money on services like the music services that have real outcomes for people and young people. This service had been earmarked for the complete phasing out of its meagre subsidy which impacts on so many kids and young people. Doesn't make any sense. Cuts are inevitable but to completely phase out support to a service that has such a reach is senseless.

But they do have ordinary music lessons as a part of the curriculum. Its a bit like having PE lessons, then the LA paying for horse riding lessons on top. Sometimes parents need to dip in their pockets. People struggle to pay their council tax, they don't need to be paying for keyboard or drum lessons for pushy parents kids

Riding any beast is a little backward, no? I mean, just think about it. No, really, please think about it existentially. Clear your mind, take a deep breath and really think about the Human Animal (The Naked Ape) riding another animal - the horse.

Ludicrous.

It's a little bit mental if you ask me and some others who are able to see this as it is. Anyone who desires to want to do such a thing needs a little mental health analyses. I am serious.

Seagull65 wrote:
Spanners I'd say the problem was one of priorities not simply balancing one thing against the next. The council subsidy to the music service is around 200k. The budget earmarked for IT infrastructure development is 5.5 million. Myself I'd much rather they spent money on services like the music services that have real outcomes for people and young people. This service had been earmarked for the complete phasing out of its meagre subsidy which impacts on so many kids and young people. Doesn't make any sense. Cuts are inevitable but to completely phase out support to a service that has such a reach is senseless.

Assuming the IT budget provides real ROI, it does provide outcomes for people, just not from your point of view.

Which of course absolutely highlights the fact that there is no doubt that people understand the need for cuts, just as long as the cuts don't affect them personally or those they know/empathise with.

All parts of society, for hundreds of years have learnt music without the need for subsidies. There is no need for a subsidy. Want to buy an instrument? Save for it as millions have before you.

The on-going debates in the Argus highlight why the talented avoid politics like the plague.

Lets just say if the council got rid of the water dispensers that cost a fortune and stopped the entertainment Tea/ Wine Buffets at Mayor and Civic do's.

Also cut any form of payment Of payment to any local councillors - it should be a volunteers if they want to get involved.

There we go £500,000 at least saved !

ifthe coujncil got back the £20,000 loan to Pruide perhapsthis couldbe putforward to assist with supporting music in the community rather than hedonists in the park

**** my keyboard!!! and its sticky keys..

so when was the word damm (mispelt for reason!) an unprintable word? come on argus, you let near on hate crimecommentsbeing left on here but cannot allow such words as damm

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so when was the word damm (mispelt for reason!) an unprintable word? come on argus, you let near on hate crimecommentsbeing left on here but cannot allow such words as damm

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Busterblister have you any of the article or know anything about what the subsidy covers. It doesn't buy instruments for kids. Itvdoesnt even buy any kids free lessons. It supports a range of activities including percussion ensembles and workshops with kids with disabilities. It provides a means tested subsidy for those kids who show an interest and aptitude for an instrument from low income backgrounds to be able to have instrumental lessons in school. It goes a small way to levelling the playing field of access to music

Seagull65 wrote:
Busterblister have you any of the article or know anything about what the subsidy covers. It doesn't buy instruments for kids. Itvdoesnt even buy any kids free lessons. It supports a range of activities including percussion ensembles and workshops with kids with disabilities. It provides a means tested subsidy for those kids who show an interest and aptitude for an instrument from low income backgrounds to be able to have instrumental lessons in school. It goes a small way to levelling the playing field of access to music

I don't really care to be honest. In times of austerity I don't want money wasted on the arts. Talent always rises to the top - the rest of it is just mucking about.

I note that of the 2,500 people who use the service weekly, only 500 come from low-income families.

I maintain that anyone interested in learning an instrument and forming a band/group/orchestra
/beat combo can do so without subsidy, as history proves.

Busterblister wrote:

Seagull65 wrote:
Busterblister have you any of the article or know anything about what the subsidy covers. It doesn't buy instruments for kids. Itvdoesnt even buy any kids free lessons. It supports a range of activities including percussion ensembles and workshops with kids with disabilities. It provides a means tested subsidy for those kids who show an interest and aptitude for an instrument from low income backgrounds to be able to have instrumental lessons in school. It goes a small way to levelling the playing field of access to music

I don't really care to be honest. In times of austerity I don't want money wasted on the arts. Talent always rises to the top - the rest of it is just mucking about.

I note that of the 2,500 people who use the service weekly, only 500 come from low-income families.

I maintain that anyone interested in learning an instrument and forming a band/group/orchestra

/beat combo can do so without subsidy, as history proves.

The others that use the service who aren't on low incomes pay for the service a competitive price comparable to private tuition. 500 young people across the city is quite a lot.

Youbare right talent does often rise to the top but faster if it's encouraged. There's a great deal,of talent that goes un encouraged and the top does tend to be dominated by those who's parents can afford to put opportunities their children's way. This is something that I and many others do care about. It's also not just about rising to the top in your words. it's about the benefits it offers to young people in terms of the all round education and there's plenty of evidence about the impact of music education on development. But since you don't care about the arts I'm wasting my breath. Thank goodness for people who do care.